[04:52] <coz_> so are people awake here this evening? well evening here anyway :)
[04:56] <wedderburn> its mid arvo in aus
[04:57] <troy_s> coz_: cozzy baby
[04:57] <coz_> wedderburn, oh ! I forgive you :)   although I am still jealous you are in austrailia
[04:57] <troy_s> coz_: how goes it my brother?
[04:57] <coz_> troy_s, hey guy :)
[04:57] <troy_s> coz_: Bah -- island of convicts -- nothing to be envious of.
[04:57] <coz_> troy_s, `not bad how about yourserlfg
[04:57] <troy_s> lol
[04:57] <wedderburn> coz_: where abouts are you?
[04:58] <coz_> wedderburn, I am in east coast US the state of Pennsylvania
[04:58] <wedderburn> ah yeah
[04:58] <coz_> actually its not a state its a common wealth but thats another story
[04:59] <coz_> troy_s, so how goes the art team at this point?
[04:59] <wedderburn> kinda like how aus is split  7 ways but only 5 are states?
[04:59] <coz_> wedderburn, really didnt know that
[05:00] <troy_s> coz_: Same is as same as.
[05:00] <troy_s> coz_: What do you think of Feisty?
[05:00] <wedderburn> woah wait im forgetting tasmania 8 ways but 5 are states
[05:00] <wedderburn> :-p
[05:00] <troy_s> coz_: Type your thoughts... brb
[05:00] <coz_> troy_s, yikes I was hoping for better news than that.... fesity is fine its ok the art sucks but the system runs :)
[05:00] <coz_> wedderburn, :)
[05:01] <coz_> I was kind of hoping things might be different for the up and coming ubuntu ?
[05:02] <coz_> I guess not right?
[05:04] <troy_s> coz_: LOL
[05:04] <troy_s> coz_: Who are you directing that question at?
[05:04] <coz_> troy_s, anyone who can answer it
[05:04] <coz_> :)
[05:04] <troy_s> coz_: and instead of sucks, could you elaborate into something that reads a little better?
[05:04] <troy_s> coz_: Do you mean 'different' as in different process?
[05:05] <coz_> troy_s, sure lol, well as you are well aware the default image on feisty is a bit washed out too simplifies for my taste
[05:05] <troy_s> is it an image... lol.
[05:05] <coz_>  troy_s lol
[05:06] <coz_> troy_s, well for the "things being different" thing... i was hoping maybe some things have changes interms of shuttlworth and the art team haveing a closer relationship?
[05:06] <troy_s> I think if such a thing were to be proposed, it might be very illusiory
[05:07] <coz_> troy_s, really? thats sad
[05:07] <troy_s> I suspect it is business as usual, with the 'what do you think of this or that' style approach
[05:07] <troy_s> to up the 'inclusion' value.
[05:07] <troy_s> that said, I could very well be very wrong.
[05:08] <coz_> troy_s, interesting I have reading some quotes by programmers and their ideas of the differences or similarities of art and programming and does programming fall into the catgory of art
[05:08] <troy_s> coz_: And for our parts, I would argue that we don't have a leg to stand on as no one has generated anything as a viable alternative.
[05:08] <troy_s> coz_: So it is, in reality, partially our fault.
[05:09] <coz_> troy_s, well you may be right,
[05:09] <troy_s> coz_: Which is why, if you believe in attempting to create change, one must do so first before one can expect any sort of offering extended.
[05:10] <coz_> troy_s, I will have to think abou that one :)
[05:10] <coz_> troy_s, what were you thing with the " no one has generated anything as viable alternative" statement?
[05:10] <coz_> thinking not thing
[05:11] <troy_s> well... i think as a community we really need to step up and generate a body of work.
[05:11] <troy_s> which is why nothlits rallying of the troops is important of late.
[05:11] <troy_s> etc.
[05:11] <troy_s> (i of course still flail away with that gg package working on, etc)
[05:11] <coz_> troy_s, a body of work consiting of what
[05:11] <troy_s> a design / look
[05:11] <troy_s> for the desktop
[05:12] <coz_> troy_s, oh  but not just the desktop right? the whole look of the system
[05:12] <troy_s> i would at least _aim_ for that.
[05:12] <troy_s> my feeling is that to embody the os, you don't need to do ALL the icons etc...
[05:12] <troy_s> perhaps 10 of the high visibility
[05:12] <troy_s> the sound design
[05:12] <troy_s> usplash
[05:13] <troy_s> gdm / logon splash / desktop wallpaper
[05:13] <troy_s> and metacity / gdm theme
[05:13] <troy_s> erk
[05:13] <troy_s> gtk theme
[05:13] <coz_> troy_s, i always thought one african theme would be nice however considering the areas that ubuntu goes into I am not sure tha twould be a good idea
[05:14] <troy_s> i think african is probably too heavy in terms of a motif.
[05:14] <coz_> troy_s, absolutely
[05:14] <troy_s> again, just a gut.
[05:14] <troy_s> what i was hoping was that we could knock out a series of themes aimed at the more atypical free software user
[05:14] <troy_s> being the mainstream
[05:14] <troy_s> mature folk
[05:14] <troy_s> (say 18-36)
[05:15] <troy_s> those with some degree of financial clout, etc.
[05:15] <coz_> troy_s, that is mature folk? :)
[05:15] <troy_s> well...
[05:15] <troy_s> its mature in terms of ...
[05:15] <troy_s> compared to say, the 12 year old gnome-look enthusiast.
[05:15] <troy_s> lol
[05:15] <coz_> oh :)
[05:15] <troy_s> but it is mature
[05:16] <troy_s> without being decrepit -- as in mature enough to influence significant change in a company.
[05:16] <troy_s> and not quite decrepit say, such as myself.
[05:16] <troy_s> lol
[05:16] <coz_> troy_s, have ideas come from anyone with some consistency
[05:16] <troy_s> other than the side projects, not exactly.  although I have quite high hopes for what nothlit is migrating towards.
[05:17] <coz_> troy_s, any examples to link to?
[05:18] <troy_s> coz_: More infrastructure right now pertaining to trying to build on a communication motif etc.
[05:18] <coz_> i see
[05:18] <troy_s> its a pretty open forum at the moment... iirc the vote ended up being
[05:18] <troy_s> collaboration and ... grr hold.
[05:19] <coz_> hmm
[05:19] <coz_> so is there a leaning towards a more conservative , clean, sleek look ?
[05:20] <troy_s> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/CommunityTheme/Collaboration+Progress
[05:20] <troy_s> i hope not
[05:20] <troy_s> i think the window is wide open
[05:20] <troy_s> coz_: I would like to see _many_ different approaches, but again, people need to stand up and contribute really.
[05:21] <troy_s> i am still working u2 towards an alpha package as well as a few other projects, so my attention is quite torn at the moment.
[05:21] <coz_> troy_s, I understand...well I have to admit I have been somewhat removed for a while since my last encounter with the ubuntu people
[05:21] <troy_s> lol
[05:21] <troy_s> get over it you bugger.
[05:21] <troy_s> those are FORUM people
[05:21] <coz_> :)
[05:22] <coz_> I understand  just bothers me that such young people sound like old men
[05:22] <coz_> well I guess I can get back to work on some things and upload them for at least you to look at at some point
[05:23] <troy_s> hrm.. you have new work?
[05:23] <troy_s> have you tried some work in inkscape?
[05:23] <coz_> troy_s, well at the moment they are just concepts
[05:23] <troy_s> it really has evolved into quite the bloody tool
[05:23] <troy_s> i put up a half finished piece
[05:23] <coz_> troy_s, yes I hve been working with inkscape qute a bit to get familiar witht he vocabulary of the app
[05:23] <troy_s> on my blogzone
[05:24] <troy_s> it is _sooooo_ good... even for traditional art.
[05:24] <coz_> troy_s, can is see it?
[05:24] <troy_s> troy-sobotka.blogspot.com
[05:25] <coz_> troy_s, very nice :)
[05:25] <troy_s> just an experiment, but i have thus far been pleasantly surprised.
[05:25] <coz_> www.coz1.blogspot.com   is mine with some of my older boring pieces
[05:25] <troy_s> so you have some new stuff down the pipe?
[05:26] <troy_s> wow that macro photo sort of hair follicle refraction is ... eerily awsome.
[05:26] <coz_> troy_s, I do have some ideas that have been developing but with my support time in #beryl I haven't had time to get them put them into a visula at all
[05:27] <troy_s> is that lion a painting?  i canna tell
[05:27] <coz_> troy_s, yes it is
[05:27] <wedderburn> troy_s: have you seen this http://flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=445758662&context=set-72157600046909364&size=o ?
[05:27] <troy_s> and coz you dumb fecker... use the blogger embed thing for images then you can click to get bigger versions
[05:27] <coz_> troy_s, lol
[05:27] <troy_s> for example, click on the portrait of my daughter you'll see what i mean
[05:27] <coz_> wedderburn, woodgrain :)
[05:27] <troy_s> just pick your image size and goo
[05:28] <wedderburn> coz_: yeah i thought it looked really nice like ages when i last saw it
[05:28] <troy_s> wedderburn: You saw the early u2 stuff yes?
[05:28] <wedderburn> yes i have
[05:28] <coz_> wedderburn, i like it as well :)
[05:28] <troy_s> yeah... we tried textures
[05:28] <troy_s> in the end, went away with it.
[05:28] <troy_s> and into the current state...
[05:28] <wedderburn> didn't think much of the  min max close buttons though
[05:28] <troy_s> i love the wood, but it is a tad on point
[05:28] <wedderburn> on the u2 art
[05:28] <coz_> troy_s, my nephew forces me to start a blog and after I heard that song "istarted a blog" I though ok why not :)
[05:28] <troy_s> wedderburn: totally changed
[05:28] <wedderburn> really
[05:28] <troy_s> wedderburn: more uh... evolutionary process...
[05:29] <troy_s> wedderburn: that was the point, put the shit up even knowing that it would likely change
[05:29] <coz_> hmm I better get started with some of these ideas  then   I feel left out :)
[05:29] <troy_s> coz_: where is the bigger link for the lion painting?
[05:30] <wedderburn> troy_s: piff it at a wall and see what sticks?
[05:30] <coz_> troy_s, i don't have one I removed all my work from ubuntuforums but I can upload it if you want to see it  if I can find the damn thing
[05:30] <wedderburn> does anyone outside of aus use the word pift ?
[05:30] <coz_> wedderburn, pift?  mm what does it mean?
[05:30] <wedderburn> to throw
[05:30] <wedderburn> to piff something
[05:31] <wedderburn> or have something piffed at you
[05:31] <coz_> wedderburn, no never heard that in the US yet!
[05:31] <coz_> wedderburn, we use  'pissed: here :)
[05:31] <wedderburn> yeah so do we
[05:31] <coz_> lol
[05:31] <wedderburn> when we discribe someone whos drunk
[05:31] <coz_> actually we just use somting thrown at you
[05:32] <wedderburn> thats odd
[05:32] <coz_> wedderburn, that is typically british isnt it?
[05:32] <wedderburn> coz_: piff of pissed?
[05:32] <troy_s> wedderburn: yes... throw shit at wall... not so much to see if it sticks, but even while you are working / evolving.
[05:32] <troy_s> with the hopes that perhaps, even through the intermediate versions, you stir something in someone else.
[05:32] <troy_s> i _loved_ the textures, but it just wasn't coming together.
[05:32] <coz_> wedderburn, `well if someone had something happen to them unexpected then we woudl say that was thrown at them or it came from left field
[05:32] <troy_s> so had to take a different route.
[05:33] <coz_> wedderburn, if you meant literally thrown at them then we just say  "what the f*** was that?
[05:33] <wedderburn> sounds about right
[05:34] <wedderburn> though we would call them a bloody yob after ;)
[05:34] <coz_> ah oh a bloddy yob ????
[05:34] <wedderburn> bloody yobbo
[05:34] <coz_> wedderburn, ok that needs even more explanation
[05:34] <coz_> :)
[05:35] <wedderburn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yobbo
[05:35] <coz_> wedderburn, ooo you wouldnt say stuff like that where i live
[05:36] <coz_> :)
[05:36] <coz_> wedderburn, this is all working class here always has been
[05:36] <wedderburn> it can be used as a compliment
[05:36] <coz_> troy_s, I will try to get busy on some of these ideas and let you take a look at them
[05:36] <wedderburn> depends where yo uare
[05:37] <coz_> wedderburn, true :)
[05:37] <wedderburn> now you know what a bogan is right?
[05:37] <coz_> wedderburn, no  !!!
[05:37] <wedderburn> its like another word for yobbo but less insulting
[05:38] <coz_> wedderburn, mm must be interesting in austrailia
[05:39] <wedderburn> yeah you can use all these words and no one from the states can understand a word of it
[05:40] <coz_> well guys I happen to live in the US and it is now 11:39 PM  and i am getting tired....nice talking with both of you and troy_s i will start work on some of this stuff soon and let you know when I upload it  night to both of you
[05:40] <coz_> wedderburn,:)
[05:46] <troy_s> wedderburn: Did I mention craig mullens sent me email two days ago!?
[05:46] <troy_s> wedderburn: How cool is that?
[05:52] <wedderburn> who?
[05:53] <troy_s> wedderburn: uh oh
[05:53] <troy_s> wedderburn: You probably wouldn't give a shit then... lol
[05:54] <troy_s> wedderburn: http://www.goodbrush.com/
[06:06] <wedderburn> reading
[06:06] <wedderburn> :Pjust got back from tech support for my dad
[06:09] <troy_s> wedderburn: Very talented fecking guy... very busy too -- he is booked right up till' November on some very high visibility projects.
[06:10] <wedderburn> wow
[06:10] <wedderburn> thats pretty good
[06:10] <troy_s> lol
[06:11] <wedderburn> troy_s: so bit of a honor that he took some time to email?
[06:11] <troy_s> well not exactly
[06:11] <troy_s> it is regarding that feature film thing
[06:11] <troy_s> he did the covers of the novels
[06:11] <troy_s> erm let me find a link
[06:11] <troy_s> http://www.amazon.ca/When-Gravity-Fails-George-Effinger/dp/0765313588/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/702-3959575-2940039?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1179115892&sr=8-1
[06:11] <troy_s> that's the first of the trilogy
[06:13] <troy_s> anyways, that's his art
[06:13] <troy_s> wedderburn: very bloody talented guy.
[06:14] <wedderburn> :)
[06:16] <wedderburn> troy_s: so anything good planned for gusty's ubuntu art?
[06:18] <troy_s> wedderburn: Lol.  in what capacity?
[06:18] <wedderburn> shrug
[06:20] <troy_s> wedderburn: Well that's bout the answer then :)
[06:20] <troy_s> Although i hear there is this really revolutionary motif coming around !!!  Earth / Air / Water / Fire etc.
[06:21] <wedderburn> :P
[07:26] <nothlit> troy_s: holy crud you're right people don't get it--theyre still focusing on widget shapes, copying osx and reading what i've layed out and immediately equating it to what's been done already
[07:26] <nothlit> troy_s: i had hoped people could contribute more in this decision stage =/
[07:27] <nothlit> otherwise it just becomes what you or i see with no extraneous input
[07:34] <troy_s> nothlit: It's one part education, one part execution, and three parts brute force.
[07:34] <troy_s> nothlit: The BEST part of the fun and games
[07:35] <troy_s> nothlit: Is that IF, and that is a BIG IF,
[07:35] <troy_s> nothlit: IF Ubuntu design actually embodied those principles on SOME level, we probably wouldn't be attempting to execute the project.
[07:37] <troy_s> nothlit: I would say to that post, please point to the design that embodies that.
[07:40] <troy_s> nothlit:  I guess I would love someone to please point me to a successful design campaign that wasn't the byproduct of some serious brainstorming and discussion.
[07:49] <nothlit> troy_s: a design campaign? few if any. if design is the main focus, in order to carry itself it has to have thought and vision applied, there isn't really dumb luck in design itself
[07:49] <nothlit> troy_s: otherwise-- if design isn't the focus, i suppose there are grassroots campaigns where the message is far more important the the mode of delivery
[07:50] <nothlit> troy_s: you aren't serious about the elements thing for gutsy are you?
[07:50] <troy_s> kawhat?
[07:50] <troy_s> elements for guts?
[07:50] <troy_s> sorry?
[07:50] <nothlit> design by nature involves planning
[07:51] <troy_s> the earth / air / fire?
[07:51] <troy_s> cliche?
[07:51] <nothlit> 12:20:22 < troy_s> Although i hear there is this really revolutionary motif coming around !!!  Earth / Air / Water / Fire etc.
[07:51] <nothlit> yeah
[07:51] <troy_s> oh yes... i am very serious
[07:51] <troy_s> it is called 'hey i don't know what this motif thing is, but i have this wonderful idea'
[07:51] <troy_s> lol
[07:51] <troy_s> earthy is one thing
[07:51] <troy_s> four elements is a bad video game
[07:51] <nothlit> or the show avatar :)
[07:52] <nothlit> but elements and balancing in itself is more an abstract/arty thing--does he not realise theres absolutely no content in that motif?
[07:53] <troy_s> uh... i'll just leave that whole thing alone
[07:53] <troy_s> as i said, it is one part education...
[07:53] <troy_s> *sigh*
[07:56] <nothlit> troy_s: so you prefer technology/man made objects to define progress?
[07:58] <troy_s> me?  no...
[07:58] <troy_s> nothlit: I am still all 100% for Ubuntu vocalizing organics.
[07:58] <troy_s> nothlit: But I do think that that direction could work as well...
[07:58] <troy_s> nothlit: And in fact, I would probably like to see some output.
[07:59] <troy_s> nothlit: Seriously though, judging from the resounding amount of brilliance exhibited thus far,
[07:59] <troy_s> nothlit: Perhaps we just work on cranking something out...
[07:59] <troy_s> nothlit: Start in greyscale / sketch
[08:00] <troy_s> and work outwards?
[08:00] <troy_s> based on the loose goals?
[08:00] <nothlit> yeah thats what i'm planning on doing
[08:00] <troy_s> i fear that all we can probably accomplish is transparency in operation
[08:00] <troy_s> nothlit: Having a workflow would help
[08:00] <troy_s> nothlit: As in, if the starting point is the same, at least they can be evaluated on similar terms
[08:01] <troy_s> nothlit: It is impossible to say, cast a vote on a semi-finished piece versus something offered as a proof of principle on the back of a napkin
[08:01] <nothlit> a series of loose (colour) sketches--and people can express approval/disagreement from there
[08:01] <troy_s> (well possible, but highly unlikely with respect to the mindsets.)
[08:01] <nothlit> easier for the general public to visualise
[08:02] <troy_s> yeah i have no idea really
[08:02] <troy_s> it is so well beyond any workflow -- well it isn't a workflow really
[08:02] <troy_s> its rather just 'hey let's pretend and you judge.)
[08:02] <nothlit> i'd prefer to work palettes out on actual work than picking anyways
[08:02] <troy_s> shit... i must bed.
[08:03] <troy_s> email me your thoughts
[08:03] <nothlit> kk cyas
[02:03] <dilomo> yo
[05:16] <troy_s> nothlit: Ping?
[05:50] <nothlit> troy_s: heyas