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darkmattertroy_s, ping04:58
darkmattergetting closer.. I'll tackle the few remaining widgets (and kill the placeholder progessbars) once my sons sleeping (and therefore behaving ;O)05:00
troy_sdarkmatter: Loving it.05:01
troy_splease please please get the alpha otu the door05:01
darkmatterthanks :)05:02
troy_sthen i can give you a list of stuff that might help to enumerate the bits you need to od05:02
darkmatteryup... the alpha/beta/whatever should be ready by morning05:02
troy_sdarkmatter: I am finding your evolving away from the tango 'inside' line stroke very very good.05:05
troy_si am just not sold on tango's style... i think it is rather ... naff.05:05
darkmatterit works to an extent... but its a wee bit much on anything over 24 pixels ;)05:06
troy_sdarkmatter: yeah, it dies after 22 pixels.  or at least should die.05:08
darkmatterI find tango really nasty at 3205:08
darkmatterit ends up looking like some kid went haywire with felt markers05:09
troy_s22 above is just... nasty05:11
darkmattertroy_s, though I do find the highres version of tango that jimmac is doing to be rather appealing05:11
darkmatterits tango without the tango05:11
troy_sdarkmatter: Yeah no lines05:12
troy_sit is very solid on a few levels in my opinon but novell turf05:13
darkmatterthat stroke they use should be for small sizes only05:13
troy_si am actually heading towards a very minimalistic approach for icons of late.05:13
troy_sno massive detail, just some subtle grads05:13
troy_sand some clean lines05:13
darkmatterthats kinda what I was going for in regards to glory... I keep seeing very minimal, almost monochromatic icons in the toolbars and panels05:14
darkmatterincluding the tray05:14
troy_sdarkmatter: yep.  that's where i have taken the u2 few.05:15
troy_si intend to hit about 10, just cover the desktop 'presence' and leave it at that...05:15
troy_si really don't feel that every app needs to be bound by the bloody things05:15
troy_s(as per tango's goals)05:15
troy_sI really find that the biggest bungle in icons05:15
troy_sis the bloody default folder icon05:15
troy_sits just plain nasty in the new K4 series, awful in tango, etc.05:16
darkmatterI dont even feel every app need to be bound by the same theme05:16
troy_sin fact, that's probably one of human's more strong presences ... the default folder.05:16
darkmatterthats another thing I'm working on for glory as a suite05:16
darkmatterI had started a theme for studi apps a while back.. never did finish05:17
troy_syou might want to collaborate with wedderburn05:18
troy_she reworked a few icons for UbuntuStudio05:18
darkmatterthe desktop shouldnt be yber dark... or uber light... both are hard on the eyes... the desktop should be more nuetral.. but gfx apps etc need to be dark because it nearlly impossible to work with otherwise05:18
darkmatterI'll have to drop him a line\05:19
darkmatterdang... cant typr today05:19
=== darkmatter gives up
troy_sdarkmatter: hard on eyes is relavit05:20
troy_sbut from a practical standpoint05:20
troy_smiddle grey (18% grey to human eye) is probably logical05:20
troy_sas it doesn't lure the eye in any given direction05:21
troy_s(as human eyes auto colour correct -- meaning that if you have a colour the eye will pull it to white)05:21
troy_sthat said, v2 ubuntustudio has a pretty clear audience05:21
troy_sso we are probably going to break some of those rules05:21
troy_sin the name of communication and lure.05:21
darkmatterI switched to ubuntustudio to05:22
troy_si have extremely high hopes for fluxbuntu assuming i can get a few things done that need doing (the usplash is simply coming along awsome)05:23
darkmatterI couldnt stand the baby-poo orange any longer05:23
troy_sfecking shite progress bar is _gone_05:23
darkmatterprogressbar sucks.. they should have done a spinner or something from the getgo05:24
troy_slazy fuckers05:25
troy_sit is05:25
troy_si had the thing mocked up in a couple of hours and it is getting coded05:25
troy_sit simply crushes all of the usplashes05:25
troy_syou might be surprised by it.05:25
troy_sanyways, family time upon me05:25
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troy_scoz_: cozzy06:16
coz_troy_s, hey guy :)06:16
coz_troy_s, god only my neices and nephews and mom still call me cozzy06:16
troy_swell add one to that now06:17
coz_troy_s, damn  I thought i would have grown out of that :)06:17
coz_troy_s, best times here around ...my time.... 4pm to 6 pm right?06:22
troy_scoz_: Hard to say...06:23
troy_sdepends on the crowd06:23
troy_scoz_: We have aussies and nas06:23
troy_sand the two don't really mix well timezone wise ;)06:23
coz_troy_s, ah right06:24
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coz_troy_s, perhaps starting local ubuntu art group might be helpful.....maybe not06:25
troy_scoz_: I think that if everyone contributes, there is no reason to limit it to timezones really.06:27
coz_troy_s, I agree it was a thought that passed through a very tired mind :)06:27
troy_scoz_: Hell... those with careers (such as myself) can't rely on 'meeting in irc'.  Its simply foolish and a tad exclusiory06:27
coz_troy_s, understood06:28
troy_shell... how often do i see you in irc ;)06:28
troy_sdid you get that tiger scanned into a better resolution?06:28
coz_troy_s  oh  damn I will look for it and post it next time I see you...that one was done almost entirely in painter however06:29
troy_sfine by me...06:30
troy_si'd like to see what you can do with inkscape though06:30
troy_syou might be able to really elevate that app by providing some amazing work.06:30
coz_troy_s, well as I said, I am still learning the vocabulary of its capabilities but I am beginning to really enjoy working with it06:31
troy_scoz_: It _truly_ is an awsome tool.06:33
troy_scoz_: Do you know how to compile it from SVN?06:33
troy_scoz_: As it tends to get a new feature / fix every week.06:33
coz_troy_s, yes i do know how to compile it,,,did it once alredy  but just reinstalled feisty so I havent bothered yet06:34
troy_scoz_: The fill tool is worth it06:34
troy_scoz_: it boils a bunch of boolean maths into one click06:35
coz_troy_s, cool ... yeah I am beginning to love it...still need to refine my skills with it but i already am getting ideas t o try  with it06:36
troy_scoz_: That's what it takes... and especially if you think outside the box of vector work.06:36
troy_scoz_: I think you could probably do some pretty serious damage with it.06:37
coz_troy_s, i would love to try...06:37
troy_scoz_: try it with a tablet too06:40
coz_troy_s, I have a wacom  if thats what youmean06:40
coz_troy_s, ok here you go   http://www.speedyshare.com/821288480.html06:40
coz_troy_s, if you zoom in on that you can see the brush strokes much clearer06:41
troy_svery very nice coz06:42
troy_si would love to see you try something like that with inkscape06:42
troy_si will say though, when you get into complex images, make sure you layer well and turn them off so you can keep working06:42
troy_sas it will get damn sluggy on you as the complexity gets up there.06:43
coz_troy_s, I already noticed that  as i said learning the ways of an application or the vocabulary of its capabilities is what humbles me a bit06:44
coz_troy_s, well guy for you its about ...what?....near  7AM there?  and here it is  nearly 1am06:45
coz_so I am going to get to sleep before I lose too much of the next day by sleeping in and really can't afford that so have a good day... talk another time :)06:45
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nothlit*cough* traditional painting ftw07:47
troy_snothlit: you bugga07:48
troy_snothlit: lol07:48
nothlittroy_s: btw you can do charcoal/soft pastel etc with fixative if you don't like elevation/backing :P07:49
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=== Topic for #ubuntu-artwork: Welcome to #ubuntu-artwork! http://www.design-emotion.com/2006/04/30/getting-emotional-with-paul-bennett/
=== Topic (#ubuntu-artwork): set by troy_s at Mon Apr 30 22:14:18 2007
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wedderburnbored tonight11:19
wedderburnwrong convo :P11:19
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nothlittroy_s: ping?03:58
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lapohi there04:13
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dilomomy mistake04:20
nothlitdilomo: yeah i saw your bg04:21
dilomooh it's really simple04:21
dilomoI made it on the fly04:22
dilomoI can try harder to achieve smth04:22
nothliti think we need to define our direction first04:22
dilomoinfluence with it04:22
nothlitit'd be great if you could contribute to the wiki article04:23
dilomoyes that's rigth04:23
nothlityou can add your tribesmen to it, etc04:23
dilomowell I'm new to Ununtu world04:23
dilomocan you be more specific04:23
dilomoabout the wiki04:24
nothlitits in the mailing list stuff04:24
nothlitgimme a sec04:24
nothlitfrom https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2007-May/003915.html to https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2007-May/003917.html04:26
nothlitso basically it'd be great if i could get some more people to flesh out the collaboration+progress concepts, and for there to be a consensus on a direction04:27
nothliti've got a sketch or two layed out but i'm not so happy with it04:27
nothlitthe first step will either be a pallete or a concept sketch, and everything will spread out from there04:28
dilomoand we are plannig the new design for ... (?relese X.Y)04:29
nothlitdilomo: you can look through the mailing list threads here https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/ , from april to may, you can follow the threads, the first one that starts it all is Working Title? by troy james sobotka04:33
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dilomoI'll try to catch up04:36
nothlitafter that it skips to Community Theme by me04:36
nothlittheres only a few emails, don't worry :)04:36
dilomook :)04:37
dilomoI have to leave04:37
dilomosee you soon ;)04:37
nothlitlol thanks for popping in :D04:38
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troy_snothlit: Pong?06:17
nothlittroy_s: i sent you an email06:28
troy_syep got it.06:32
nothlitobviously clouds have to go if we stick with a rocket of some sort06:34
nothliti dunno how well collaboration fits into that06:35
nothlitunless maybe they're all lifting/raising/pulling something06:35
nothlittroy_s: whats the diff between gdm.svg and gdm-widescreen.svg?06:35
nothlitwe can bathe metal objects in warm light--blue doesn't have to be a factor prolly06:37
troy_snothlit: the difference is that thanks to gdm not having aspect innate abilities06:38
troy_snothlit: i have to rework the 4/3 variety06:38
troy_snothlit: so that push came hand in hand with some of the minor details i changed in the base06:38
troy_snothlit: It also means that compositionally it will be twisted slightly to better meet the ratio of the 4/3 screen.06:39
nothlittroy_s: yeah but why isn't gdm.svg identical to gdm-widescreen.svg--not talking about -standard06:39
troy_snothlit: In terms of stylings?  it is.06:39
troy_shrm... gdm.svg as a base?06:40
troy_swhat are you seeing?06:40
troy_s(dont rely on the svg renders in a renderer either -- as they aren't even close to inkscapes output unfortunately)06:40
nothlitdiff gdm-widescreen.svg gdm.svg06:40
nothlit<    sodipodi:docname="gdm-widescreen.svg"06:40
nothlit>    sodipodi:docname="gdm.svg"06:40
troy_soh... i just did a copy for the naming convention06:41
troy_sinitial push06:41
troy_si honestly don't know what diffs i pushed on that last one -- mostly an organizational push...06:42
troy_si lost a hard disk at one point, so i tend to push when i can to protect data06:42
nothlittroy_s: so no comments?06:46
troy_snothlit: Sorry regarding what in particular?06:47
nothlitemail attachments lol06:47
troy_soh yes... i was thinking that perhaps sketching motifs could possibly be a better entry point.06:47
troy_sto see how they can fit on their own ... then try applying some palettes to them.06:48
troy_sat least see if you can get a motif that lives on its own two legs...06:49
troy_sthere was a campaign that i might not have the link for06:49
troy_sit had a very heavily registered singular motif (as opposed to a motif rooted in say, overall styling compared to a singular icon)06:50
troy_snothlit: Have you gotten any emails or has everyone been stomped into submission?07:07
troy_s(and by submission i mean broken not 'submitting' lol)07:08
nothliti talked to dilomo in here today, explained where we're going, what i want to see atm07:09
troy_snot familiar with dilomo07:10
nothliti think hes the person that made those tribesmen wallpapers07:11
troy_syes that would make sense07:14
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troy_skwwii: Didn't see you there...07:46
troy_skwwii: How did UDS go for you?07:46
kwwiitroy_s: lot's of new work07:46
kwwiiwell, the first new thing is the UME (mobile edition)07:47
kwwiiworking on that with some intel guys atm07:47
troy_sweird... who is the vendor?07:47
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troy_s(i ask becuase i can't see anything _not_ being vendor specific)07:48
kwwiiit is not vendor specific at all as we do not know who the actual vendors are yet07:48
kwwiiintel is making a spec and prototypes07:48
kwwiiwe are building the software stack07:49
darkmattergood afternoon kiddies.07:58
darkmatterrecess is over. back to work :P07:59
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dilomoi send you everybody09:44
dilomoan  example palette09:44
troy_swhat is your palette based on?09:44
dilomotis is just a test09:44
troy_sguesses or some sort of real world theory?09:44
dilomobased on my taste09:44
dilomojust guesses09:45
troy_sdilomo: Do you know how proper design references do it?09:45
troy_sdilomo:  They tend to not use swatches (the better one) as they aren't a very good simulation of implementation.09:45
troy_sdilomo: Take a very simple set of text / square base / etc... and see if you can mix and match the colours to get a better feel for base etc.09:46
troy_smeatballhat: where is your link?!09:46
troy_sdilomo: let me show you an example09:46
troy_smeatballhat did a wonderful job of utilizing this approach after I showed him some of Leslie Carbaga's work.09:47
nothlitas troy likes to say, palettes aren't just a smattering of colors across the spectrum, they're a limited selection (but not monochromatic) used to achieve a specific mood, and message09:47
dilomoyeah I read that09:47
troy_stake a base such as that, and build an svg similar to it.09:48
troy_sthen mix and match your colours09:48
troy_sand see what works more towards what you are trying to achieve in terms of a communication09:48
troy_sas 'bold' is very different from 'fragile'09:48
troy_sculturally of course, you are bound09:48
troy_sbut you can probably get very far trying them out in that fashion.09:48
nothlitin terms of images created, they should all represent our two chosen words as well --and the brown/orange hues, earthy feel of ubuntu is preferred (but doesn't mean you just stick to those two--and there is a LOT of range just inside that)09:50
dilomoin my pallete i tried to include09:50
dilomocolors like09:50
dilomohuman skin09:50
dilomoand desert sand09:50
dilomoand because in the mailing list09:50
dilomothere was mentioned that brawn is not very sutable09:50
dilomoi tried ti mix with some cold colors09:50
nothlitbrown is perfectly fine--you can do a lot with brown09:50
nothlitany choices are fine as long as you can support it with why they represent our keywords09:51
troy_sdilomo: Ignore the brown is not suitable.09:52
nothlitpeople tend to speak in far too large generalisations in terms of colours09:52
dilomoi'll try to make such a palette09:52
troy_sdilomo: That is being offered from a very ignorant and uneducated perspective.09:52
troy_sdilomo: You like chocolate?  Enough said.09:52
dilomowell then I have a question09:53
nothlitrich wood tones, clay, trees, earth, coffee beans, theres tons of wonderful browns09:54
dilomowhat is our palette intended to display?09:54
nothlitdilomo: the message of progress and collaboration in any manifestation appropriate09:54
dilomotext, images, GUI or what ...09:54
nothlita palette is a base to put everything together09:54
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troy_sdilomo: Use your creativity09:55
troy_sdilomo: That's the strength of our community -- collaborate -- take a starting point / ending point that someone drops and build outwards.09:55
dilomoI understand09:56
dilomoLet me think over it for a while09:56
dilomoand I will make palette #209:57
troy_sjust try out your colours on a spread like that jpg09:58
troy_sthe main thing about a palette is that it strictly allows others to collaborate09:58
troy_sotherwise they start pulling colours out of their ass and the rest is obvious.09:58
dilomook see ya every body10:00
dilomoI have to sleep after all :)10:00
dilomoeverybody* ;)10:01
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darkmattertroy_s, http://mrigns.ath.cx/index.php/2007/05/13/a-short-video-of-kde4s-current-state/ <--- watch that... though I may not *love* the progressbars.. I do like the general approach used10:21
troy_sdarkmatter: Rather completely and utterly useless to anyone outside of of the definition of 'uber geek'10:22
troy_sdarkmatter: (the first part of process etc)10:23
darkmatteraye.. but I like the general approach (the way the progressbar is blended.. not the design itself)10:24
troy_sdarkmatter: Transition elements are rather much needed across the board though -- integrated with the arch in an uniform manner.10:24
troy_sdarkmatter: Looking for htat portion10:24
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darkmatterits towards the end10:24
troy_sdarkmatter: I don't know... I fear that whole approach will appeal to a demographic that is out of what i consider a priority audience.10:25
darkmattertroy_s, elitist uber-geeks? ;)10:25
troy_sdarkmatter: Uh yes.10:25
troy_sdarkmatter: Not helping on a bigger scale.  That said, if you look at the screenshot you can pretty much see how 'busy' the elements feel.10:26
darkmatterdont worry.. I'm not doing it like that.. I just like it10:26
troy_sdarkmatter: And I am not terribly fearful of interfaces, but arguably you get that sort of 'hello' or 'goaway' communication10:26
troy_sdarkmatter: I simply prefer 'hello'10:26
darkmatteryup.. I have a nice hello for the scrollbars.. just havent made the images yet10:27
troy_sdarkmatter: I really want to see something in terms of say...10:27
troy_sdarkmatter: Classical notions of 'pretty / attractive' in the pills of glory.10:28
troy_sdarkmatter: Pills of Glory -- I think I saw that movie in 72'.10:28
troy_sdarkmatter: Lol.10:28
troy_sdarkmatter: Something that is simple with a pull towards light / feminine?10:29
troy_sthe rest is grounded enough to avoid the homophobes10:29
darkmatteryeah.. kinda10:29
troy_sdarkmatter: Something your wife might go 'wow' to.10:29
troy_sdarkmatter: (flip for relevant female)10:29
troy_sdarkmatter: Our world needs more bloody females in it.10:30
troy_sdarkmatter: They ship shape design from the gutter rapidly.10:30
darkmattercolorize to flower motif for light in the loafer types :P10:30
troy_sdarkmatter: (Yet another reason that Diana has an edge in pulling mainstream)10:30
troy_sdarkmatter: Well... i was thinking more in the actual drawing portion10:30
darkmatterI know10:31
troy_sdarkmatter: Something ... erm... woudl require some thinking a little more... but thin / pastel tone10:31
troy_sdarkmatter: slim10:31
troy_sdarkmatter: loose hip shot words, but i think you 'get it'10:31
nothlittroy_s: i just bombed you with text in pm10:32
troy_snothlit: All good here.10:32
troy_sdarkmatter: And I do think that in the grand scheme of what glory is evolving towards, those outlines are legacy tangoific10:33
troy_sdarkmatter: 2cents from a useless vantage, but 2cents none-the-less10:33
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darkmatterspeaking of.. I hate er... useless television10:34
troy_slapo: Greets lappy10:35
darkmattertroy_s, biggest thing atm is clean without sterility... lots of fixes still to come.. just want the general feel laid out10:35
darkmatterI hate overly busy themes10:36
darkmatterlike clearlooks10:36
darkmatterits far to busy.. mostly due to the heavy outlines10:36
troy_sdarkmatter: Again with you on it... just thinking that the outline is very 'heavy'10:36
troy_swoop... lol10:36
troy_sdarkmatter: I find outlines a very heavy approach in general... rather like why grade 2 colouring books have them10:36
troy_sdarkmatter: Colouring books aimed at say, 30 years olds use fine thin lines10:37
troy_sor simple tones10:37
troy_s(sad analogy, but i think there might be some shred of an example in there lol)10:37
darkmatterI've shown the WIP screenies around... so far response is better than expected10:40
troy_sdarkmatter: I think it will be even better when the whole is addressed10:41
darkmatteras.. rather than creating a generic them like clearlooks, etc. I'm wanting a real them aimed at a generic (or more appropriately general) audience10:41
troy_sdarkmatter: As it is but one member of an orchestra10:41
lapohi darkmatter and troy_s10:41
darkmatterhi lapo10:41
troy_sanyways, i need pork ingredients.10:41
nothlitlines are for people who don't understand basic values and contrast ;p10:41
troy_snothlit: amen10:41
troy_snot to mention that one of my all time pieces of bloody photography is of a bull10:42
troy_sagainst a dark sepia base10:42
troy_sthere is probably 1/10th of a stop of diffference between the two10:42
darkmatterbut yeah... the real improvement will come when I move from pixmap to cairo10:47
darkmattermuch more control10:47
nothlitis cairo there yet?10:48
darkmatternothlit, nope. atm its just the evil pixmap engine... but is the best design tool there is for themes atm... saves the hastle of constantly recompiling10:56
darkmatterbut it has several nasty little issues10:57
darkmatterhmmm... some of the outlines are a bit dark *shrug*.. I'll fix that later10:59

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