[01:11] <alex_mayorga> hi
[01:12] <alex_mayorga> I've read the topic already, but wonder if someone more experienced could help me determine if this http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=4744 has been somehow reintroduced into the code base
[01:13] <alex_mayorga> thanks in advance
[02:07] <conn> mjg59, re: bug #103366, have you had success connecting to a wpa network with your zd1211-based card? 
[02:07] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 103366 in linux-source-2.6.20 "NetworkManager cannot connect to WPA network at first boot" [Critical,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/103366
[02:07] <mjg59> I don't have a wpa network
[02:09] <conn> mjg59, my apologies, I meant bug #103768, has the proposed fix cleared up the association problems for you?
[02:09] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 103768 in linux-source-2.6.20 "softmac and network-manager cite unreconcilable differences" [Critical,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/103768
[02:09] <mjg59> It's not in a released kernel yet
[02:09] <mjg59> As far as I know?
[02:09] <conn> Tim Gardner posted a proposed fix there
[02:09] <mjg59> Yes
[02:10] <conn> you're right, it's not released yet, I'm curious if there's be any changes... the fixed module still causes problems with WPA
[02:10] <conn> *there'll
[02:11] <conn> mjg59, see here: http://www.linuxwireless.org/en/users/Drivers/zd1211rw#head-dfa194ef8747529a0c18b3efae51430abd3fb34f
[02:11] <conn> it's possible there's a problem with debian/ubuntu scripts in conjunction to driver-specific quirks
[02:12] <mjg59> The issue I had was nothing to do with that
[02:12] <mjg59> softmac simply wasn't sending association events
[02:12] <conn> I know, I unmarked my bug as a duplicate, I was just trying to see if there's any overlap regarding my bug and yours
[02:13] <conn> mjg59, point three of that link could explain the problems on your system (dhclient scripts causing disassociations)
[02:17] <mjg59> conn: No, the problem on my system was softmac not sending association events
[02:17] <conn> alright, thanks
[02:34] <keescook> asac: hmm... I can't run "firefox -ProfileManager" when firefox is already running.  this is new.  :)
[02:45] <keescook> asac: nevermind, I have run into bug 39559 (which seemed to go away during feisty...)
[02:45] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 39559 in firefox "Cannot have two profiles (-P switch) opened simultaneously." [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/39559
[06:57] <fabbione> morning
[08:10] <cjsoftuk_> I found a bug in ncpfs, where do I report it?
[08:11] <tonyyarusso> !bugs | cjsoftuk_ 
[08:11] <ubotu> cjsoftuk_: If you find a bug in Ubuntu or any of its derivatives, please file a bug report at: http://bugs.ubuntu.com/ IRC is not a good medium to report bugs and this channel is for development coordination.
[08:11] <cjsoftuk_> tonyyarusso: Thought so, I did that already, just wondering if there was anywhere else
[08:15] <pitti> Good morning
[08:21] <Mithrandir> hiya Martin
[08:48] <dholbach> good morning
[09:04] <pitti> ah, so gaim renamed itself to pidgin over night
[09:05] <dholbach> pitti: that happened weeks ago - though not in our archive :)
[09:07] <pitti> I did so a few days ago; upgrade needed several apt-get -f install steps, but final result works fine
[09:07] <Mithrandir> update-manager -c -d ended up being quite unhappy
[09:19] <Mithrandir> morning Seb
[09:20] <Mithrandir> texlive is entirely too large.
[09:21] <seb128> hey Mithrandir
[09:21] <pitti> Mithrandir: you should definitively uninstall tetex-extra before the upgrade
[09:22] <Mithrandir> pitti: I failed to do so
[09:22] <pitti> Mithrandir: the transitional package pulls in a lot of stuff you probably won't need
[09:22] <Mithrandir> oh well
[09:23] <Mithrandir> bandwidth is cheap
[09:26] <Mithrandir> I think I'll do that with my next system
[09:26] <StevenK> pitti: 12 Gb a month? Ugh.
[09:27] <StevenK> Mithrandir: Ouch.
[09:27] <Mithrandir> StevenK: why?  It should work just fine
[09:27] <StevenK> Mithrandir: I was thinking of how to actually migrate.
[09:28] <pitti> StevenK: well, it's actually bearable as long as I stay with only one arch and use jigdo etc. :)
[09:28] <pitti> StevenK: but I ordered DSL now (again, 3rd attempt)
[09:28] <Mithrandir> mv /usr/* / ; mv /usr/bin/* /bin ; mv /usr/lib/* /lib ; mv /usr/sbin/* /sbin should be about it.
[09:28] <StevenK> pitti: Heh. What link are you on now?
[09:29] <geser> are there any plans to upgrade python-support in gutsy to 0.6.4? A package I'd like to sync needs it.
[09:29] <StevenK> Mithrandir: But some of my machines have a small / and a /usr that is roughly triple the size.
[09:29] <Mithrandir> StevenK: oh, I stopped splitting out /usr years ago
[09:29] <Mithrandir> it just doesn't make sense, IMO
[09:30] <StevenK> Old habits die hard.
[09:30] <Mithrandir> /var on a separate partition however, is something I practice on servers and such
[09:30] <StevenK> I was pondering looking at the python-support merge.
[09:32] <geser> StevenK: looks like an easy one (only depends and conflicts which need to be adjusted)
[09:32] <StevenK> geser: There's more than that.
[09:33] <geser> what did I miss?
[09:33] <StevenK> egg-info. 
[09:34] <StevenK> It means that a bunch of packages will FTBFS without changes.
[09:35] <geser> is it really a problem this early in the dev cycle?
[09:36] <StevenK> It still needs to be considered.
[09:36] <geser> I guess more and more debian packages will rely on the egg renaming done by python-support
[09:36] <Mithrandir> geser: too much breakage early just means lots of pain later in the cycle, so it's worth trying to avoid big problems at this point too.
[09:38] <geser> so the solution would be to disable the egg renaming in python-support for now until people had time to fix their packages?
[09:38] <StevenK> That may not be an option.
[09:38] <StevenK> I've been vaguely pondering it.
[09:42] <Mithrandir> hm, I wonder what my luggage was doing in belgrade
[09:43] <fabbione> Mithrandir: decided to have an extra few days of vacation? :)
[09:43] <geser> have you an idea how to solve it that packages relying on the feature get it and that it doesn't break existing ones?
[09:43] <highvoltage> Mithrandir: heh!
[09:43] <fabbione> mine arrived yesterday
[09:44] <StevenK> geser: What if the behaviour conflicts?
[09:44] <smurf> Mithrandir: That's not that bad a detour. My father once flew home from Boston via Amsterdam to Germany, while his luggage ended up in Damascus.
[09:45] <geser> StevenK: I've currently no idea how to solve it. Currently I see only breaking old or new packages.
[09:45] <elkbuntu> Mithrandir, did you lose your luggage *again*?
[09:45] <Mithrandir> elkbuntu: no, the _airline_ lost my baggage again.
[09:45] <elkbuntu> heheheh
[09:45] <Mithrandir> or airport or whatever.
[09:46] <StevenK> elkbuntu: How were your flights?
[09:46] <Mithrandir> I'm slightly jealous of it.. got to see Belgrade, but I didn't.
[09:46] <StevenK> Heh
[09:46] <elkbuntu> StevenK, up until singapore, they were fine. Then the singapore airport couldnt power the plane for some reason, and wouldnt let the plane power itself up, so we were delayed 3:15
[09:46] <StevenK> Mithrandir: It probably got to see the tarmac at Belgrade.
[09:47] <StevenK> elkbuntu: Yeah, I heard about that.
[09:47] <Mithrandir> StevenK: true dat.
[09:47] <smurf> elkbuntu: fun. :-/ How did they resolve the stalemate?
[09:48] <StevenK> Which passenger backed up the car and provided jumper cables?
[09:48] <elkbuntu> smurf, by removing us from the plane for several hours while they fixed the problem
[09:49] <elkbuntu> while waiting we failed to convince some microsoft employee to jump ship
[09:49] <smurf> Ah, the "well theoretically the plane might blow up if several OTHER things which never go wrong also go wrong" gambit.
[09:51] <smurf> It's almost as bad as the "well you could conceivably have hidden some explosives n that yogurt you've already half eaten" stupidity they've now started to impose in Europe too. :-(
[09:52] <StevenK> smurf: Can you expand on that? I haven't heard about that at all.
[09:52] <Mithrandir> next time, I'm going to try to bring a bottle of frozen water with me
[09:52] <smurf> StevenK: That's the "no fucking liquids whatsoever allowed" rule. You may have heard about it.
[09:53] <StevenK> Oh yes, that one.
[09:53] <elkbuntu> smurf, i look forward to the day when humans are too liquidy to fly. that will be interesting to watch unfold ;)
[09:53] <elkbuntu> ZOMG YOUR BLOOD MIGHT BE EXPLOSIVE!
[09:53] <StevenK> Heh
[09:53] <ajmitch> oh, elkbuntu is back :)
[09:53] <StevenK> Heh
[09:53] <elkbuntu> ajmitch, at least partially
[09:54] <Mithrandir> shame the Bruce Schneier movie plot contest is over, I'm sure elkbuntu could have written some excellent bits for it.
[09:54] <StevenK> elkbuntu: I have a crass comment, but I'll refrain.
[09:54] <elkbuntu> StevenK, yes dear, i think you will.
[09:54] <StevenK> elkbuntu: Make me. :-P
[09:54] <ajmitch> elkbuntu: part of you still in spain?
[09:57] <elkbuntu> ajmitch, no, my soul is still partially in frankfurt where i was unable to buy cigarettes because i was going to be going via singapore, and partially at sydney airport where they told me i bought too many smokes in singapore and had to hand em over. if hobbsee wasnt travelling with me, i'd have lost the lot
[09:57] <ajmitch> oh dear
[09:57] <elkbuntu> because if you bring too many in... they tax you the entire lot
[09:58] <StevenK> elkbuntu: Yup. Isn't tax fun?
[09:58] <Mithrandir> not that way here, though
[09:58] <elkbuntu> StevenK, even with the carton and a bit i got to keep via hobbsee, it's still cheaper than if i had have bought here
[09:59] <StevenK> elkbuntu: How much cheaper?
[09:59] <elkbuntu> about $50
[09:59] <StevenK> Nice.
[09:59] <StevenK> Given $50 doesn't buy a full cartoon here, that's impressive.
[09:59] <elkbuntu> yeah
[10:00] <ajmitch> just how much did you try & bring in?
[10:01] <elkbuntu> ajmitch, 4 : i thought it was 2cartons/person, and hobbsee was going to help me stock up, then we saw a sign like 10 mtrs from customs saying it was 200cigs max (1ctn)
[10:01] <elkbuntu> so we dumped it all with me, and she got to take a carton and a 'concession' (because i'd already opened a carton in singapore)
[10:02] <smurf> elkbuntu: try quitting :-P
[10:02] <elkbuntu> smurf, noooooooO!
[10:02] <elkbuntu> you really dont want me any more insane than i already am
[10:03] <smurf> elkbuntu: Who cares about your sanity? ;-)
[10:03] <elkbuntu> smurf, well, me for one...
[10:03] <Mithrandir> elkbuntu: you hang around us. :-P
[10:04] <ajmitch> on irc, noone knows you're insane
[10:04] <smurf> elkbuntu: I could think of worse problems. Like, for instance, lung cancer.
[10:04] <elkbuntu> ajmitch, then things like summits and conferences happen ;)
[10:05] <ajmitch> elkbuntu: where insanity is the normal state?
[10:05] <ajmitch> hello Hobbsee 
[10:05] <elkbuntu> you're right, i should aim for liver cancer or something?
[10:05] <Mithrandir> ello obbse
[10:05] <ajmitch> nah, we just try for general liver failure
[10:05] <Mithrandir> +e
[10:06] <elkbuntu> Hobbsee, sorry i didnt msg you. i kinda died yesterday.
[10:07] <elkbuntu> Mithrandir, no, 20hrs of sleep
[10:07] <Hobbsee> hi ajmitch 
[10:07] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu!!!
[10:07] <Hobbsee> hiya Mithrandir 
[10:07] <elkbuntu> Hobbsee!!
[10:07] <ajmitch> elkbuntu: but you only had a short trip, right?
[10:07] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: not suprising - so did i
[10:07] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: when did you get in?
[10:07] <elkbuntu> ajmitch, no...
[10:07] <elkbuntu> Hobbsee, 1.20 the plane landed in albury
[10:08] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: heh, nice
[10:08] <ajmitch> am?
[10:08] <elkbuntu> ajmitch, pm
[10:08] <ajmitch> and you're complaining?
[10:09] <Treenaks> ajmitch: you had to swim? :)
[10:09] <\sh> mvo, ping could you enlighten my mind how to tell update-notifier to just restart one app/daemon after upgrade?
[10:09] <elkbuntu> where did your flights b0rk?
[10:09] <ajmitch> just lots of sitting around
[10:10] <elkbuntu> musta been
[10:10] <ajmitch> all my flights were on time, but the time in airports added up
[10:10] <mvo> \sh: if you don't want to do it in postinst, there is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/InteractiveUpgradeHooks
[10:11] <mvo> \sh: it can run scripts, but it can not run them automatically
[10:11] <elkbuntu> yeah. airport time is better than plane time though
[10:12] <\sh> mvo, I was thinking about something like restart-app hook, with the name of the app in a file which has to be read from a file somewhere...
[10:12] <ajmitch> elkbuntu: though drinking a guiness in heathrow on an empty stomach can be fun
[10:12] <dholbach> doko: we're having trouble with the python-{gtk,gnome}* merges - do you know of anything that would break the python-dbg stuff?
[10:12] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: right
[10:13] <elkbuntu> especially better than an hour and a half waiting for singapore to power up a plane, and hence without airconditioning, only to be shuffled off the plane to wait more time in a crowded lounge
[10:13] <ajmitch> elkbuntu: a bit nasty
[10:13] <elkbuntu> singapore's humidity is pure evil
[10:14] <doko> dholbach: not that I know; build errors?
[10:15] <dholbach> doko: even using the old debian/rules resulted in   python-dbg -c 'import ...'    not working
[10:16] <mvo> \sh: that is a interessting idea. currently only FF seems to need it, what app is your use-case?
[10:16] <\sh> mvo, wine ;)
[10:16] <\sh> mvo, mdz is the cause of it ,-) https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wine/+bug/95178
[10:16] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 95178 in wine "Should use notify-reboot-required or similar" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
[10:20] <asac> Mithrandir: since when are they gone?
[10:20] <Mithrandir> asac: I just dist-upgraded this machine to gutsy.
[10:20] <mvo> \sh: for now, you could just reuse the firefox notification, we can think of something more elaborated
[10:20] <Mithrandir> it has run feisty until now.
[10:20] <asac> hmm
[10:21] <ajmitch> asac: happened to me too, I just haven't filed a bug yet
[10:21] <ajmitch> and this was running gutsy before I left for uds
[10:21] <asac> Mithrandir: what are the sizes of your .db files in your profile
[10:22] <\sh> mvo, cool...so I have to install just a file e.g. wineserver-restart-required.update-notifier in /usr/share/wine and everything is ok, right?
[10:22] <asac> Mithrandir: e.g. cert8.db
[10:22] <\sh> and oh wonder, wine compiles with stack-protection
[10:22] <ajmitch> asac: cert8.db is 98k here
[10:22] <dholbach> mdz: good morning - do you think you could make ubuntu-dev a member of motu? atm I can't commit to motu branches in LP
[10:22] <asac> ajmitch: but still no certs in there?
[10:23] <dholbach> mdz: or offer mentoring for motu
[10:23] <ajmitch> asac: it's complaining about "Could not verify this certificate for unknown reasons"
[10:24] <mvo> \sh: just install a file in /var/lib/update-notifier/user.d/ that follow the format described on the wiki (best is probably to just copy the ff one for now)
[10:24] <asac> ajmitch: when doing what? visiting site? Do you still see your certs in security manager?
[10:25] <ajmitch> asac: I get the standard "Unable to verify..." when hitting an SSL-enabled site
[10:25] <doko> dholbach: do you test in the package directory, or in some other dir?
[10:26] <ajmitch> & there are few certs in the certificate manager
[10:26] <dholbach> doko: in another dir
[10:27] <Mithrandir> asac: -rw------- 1 tfheen tfheen 64K 2007-05-15 10:20 cert8.db
[10:27] <Mithrandir> asac: my byhand-installed CAs are there just fine
[10:28] <asac> Mithrandir: just build-in ones gone? ... same for you ajmitch ?
[10:28] <Tonio_> hi ;)
[10:29] <Mithrandir> asac: yes
[10:29] <ajmitch> asac: it appears that way
[10:32] <\sh> mvo, in /var/lib/update-notifier/user.d is no such file..it's in /usr/share/firefox
[10:32] <\sh> mvo, speaking of feisty (newly installed)
[10:33] <mvo> \sh: it will copy it in its postinst if it sees a runing FF
[10:34] <\sh> mvo, ah :) ok...now I get it :)
[10:35] <doko> dholbach: please make the current packaging available
[10:36] <dholbach> for others the .so files were not renamed to _d.so
[10:36] <mvo> \sh: great :)
[10:36] <\sh> mvo, thx for the explanation...now I can fix at least 2 bugs of wine ;)
[10:36] <dholbach> doko: ajmitch had problems with those merges too
[10:37] <dholbach> doko: but yeah, let me upload an example
[10:37] <asac> mvo: unfortunately that notify mechanism is not good enough :) ... i got several reports that notification appeared after firefox crashed.
[10:37] <asac> mvo: dunno if we can do something about it except waiting for all firefox stopped before replacing bits
[10:38] <mvo> asac: what would be the best option? show the notification early? or skip it after FF crashed (the later could be done with the "DisplayIf" key in the hookfile, it can run any shell command)
[10:38] <\sh> btw..in gutsies firefox, there is no .postinst file anymore...but changelog tells me it should be there
[10:40] <asac> mvo: honestly I don't know. probably we want the latter, but its all far from perfect
[10:40] <mvo> asac: right. best would be if it didn't crash at all :)
[10:40] <asac> hehe ... you get it ;)
[10:41] <\sh> who removed firefox.postinst from the package?
[10:42] <dholbach> can we get telepathy-mission-control and telepathy-glib through NEW? :-)
[10:43] <seb128> dholbach: let me look at them
[10:43] <dholbach> seb128: source NEW via Debian NEW
[10:43] <dholbach> (dunno if you do them)
[10:43] <seb128> yes, I can do them
[10:44] <dholbach> knowing the other telepathy packages, I guess they're all lgpl2.1 only
[10:44] <seb128> they have been accepted to Debian so they should be ok
[10:44] <jdub> Mithrandir: ping
[10:44] <seb128> I'll have a look anyway
[10:44] <asac> \sh: guess it was left behind when migrating to new package layout ... enqueued in TODO.
[10:45] <Mithrandir> jdub: what's up, crazy australian?
[10:45] <\sh> asac, ok...just thought I'm more blind as I'm already ;)
[10:45] <jdub> Mithrandir: i noticed you're most obviously associated with the ubuntu mobile foo (as per blueprint assignments); are you leading the technical effort within canonical?
[10:46] <Mithrandir> jdub: yes
[10:46] <ajmitch> lucky chap
[10:46] <jdub> Mithrandir: ok, you need to be on mobile-devel-list (mail.gnome.org)
[10:46] <Mithrandir> jdub: I subscribed on Thursday or so
[10:47] <jdub> great
[10:49] <crimsun> this may be out of left field, but does anyone happen to know which model Dell keybuk has?
[10:49] <crimsun> (need to comment the patch I'm sending upstream)
[10:50] <dholbach> doko: dget http://daniel.holba.ch/temp/gnome-python-extras_2.14.3-1ubuntu1.dsc
[10:58] <Mithrandir> jdub: you might want to hang out in #ubuntu-mobile too
[11:06] <Mithrandir> asac: is there anything more I can provide you with in order for you to be able to debug the problem?
[11:10] <asac> Mithrandir: i can't reproduce ... still trying
[11:11] <ajmitch> asac: all I had to do was upgrade firefox, watch it crash & certs were gone when I restored the session 
[11:11] <Mithrandir> I quit it by hand
[11:11] <Mithrandir> this is on amd64, but I would be surprised if it was arch-specific.
[11:12] <asac> i am on amd64 as well
[11:12] <asac> Mithrandir: you quit after upgrade?
[11:13] <Mithrandir> asac: before.
[11:15] <asac> Mithrandir: please backup your profile (so we can at least reproduce the broken state) ... then can you look if starting in feisty chroot makes a difference?
[11:17] <Mithrandir> I don't have a feisty chroot here, but I could bootstrap one, of course.
[11:17] <Mithrandir> interestingly enough, this affects epiphany too
[11:18] <asac> hmm
[11:25] <mdz> mvo,\sh: ideally, wine would provide a kill-wineserver or such, which we could run
[11:25] <asac> Mithrandir: i guess it would be really worth a try to start with feisty firefox again ... just to see if some .db file got corrupted or if the problem is somewhere else.
[11:27] <Mithrandir> asac: just firefox or a full installation?
[11:28] <asac> Mithrandir: to be safe use a chroot
[11:28] <Mithrandir> same with a clean profile, btw.
[11:29] <asac> really?
[11:29] <asac> thats really interesting
[11:29] <asac> let me see
[11:31] <asac> Mithrandir: so you use clean profile and get cert warning on launchpad?
[11:32] <Mithrandir> asac: correct.
[11:32] <asac> Mithrandir: i don't get that .... what libnss libs are installed (dpkg -l libnss*) ?
[11:32] <Mithrandir> ii  libnss3-0d                 3.11.5-3                   Network Security Service libraries
[11:34] <asac> Mithrandir: hmm ... try install libnss3-dev
[11:38] <Mithrandir> asac: same problem (with epiphany)
[11:41] <ajmitch> asac: can't reproduce on the laptop here (x86)
[11:41] <asac> Mithrandir: ok i can reproduce something similar if i move away the link /usr/lib/firefox/libnssckbi.so ... does it exist for you and point to valid target?
[11:42] <Mithrandir> zsh: no matches found: /usr/lib/firefox/libnss*
[11:42] <asac> ups
[11:42] <asac> Mithrandir: please create by hand
[11:42] <asac> /usr/lib/firefox/libnssckbi.so -> ../nss/libnssckbi.so
[11:42] <Mithrandir> there's one in /usr/lib/nss
[11:42] <asac> yeah right ... firefox one should point to it
[11:43] <ajmitch> asac: should it be a symlink or a file?
[11:43] <Mithrandir> asac: much better.
[11:43] <asac> Mithrandir: what package version do you have?
[11:44] <Mithrandir> asac: of what? :-P
[11:44] <asac> firefox
[11:44] <asac> ;)
[11:44] <Mithrandir> ii  firefox                    2.0.0.3+3-0ubuntu3         lightweight web browser based on Mozilla
[11:44] <Mithrandir> ii  epiphany-browser           2.19.2-0ubuntu1            Intuitive GNOME web browser
[11:44] <Mithrandir> the symlink fixed epiphany too
[11:45] <asac> yeah safe bet
[11:46] <asac> ouch
[11:46] <ajmitch> yep
[11:47] <asac> ajmitch: ok thanks for the hint. Guess we need a conflict
[11:48] <Mithrandir> that wouldn't fix it for me, though. :-P
[11:49] <asac> Mithrandir: i guess libnss3 was still there when installing firefox ... but was removed afterwards. Otherwise I can't tell why the symlink is not created
[11:49] <asac> any idea?
[11:49] <asac> its installed by debhelper in firefox.links
[11:50] <Mithrandir> no, it's not.
[11:51] <Mithrandir> hm
[11:51] <asac> (gutsy)asac@hector:/tmp/firefox-2.0.0.3+3$ grep nss debian/firefox.links 
[11:51] <asac> usr/lib/nss/libnssckbi.so usr/lib/firefox/libnssckbi.so
[11:51] <asac> (gutsy)asac@hector:/tmp/firefox-2.0.0.3+3$ dpkg -L firefox | grep libnss
[11:51] <asac> /usr/lib/firefox/libnssckbi.so
[11:51] <Mithrandir> it is, but something nukes it
[11:51] <asac> as i said ... try reinstalling firefox ... should help
[11:51] <asac> when the file exists during install link will just not be created
[11:51] <ajmitch> "dpkg -L firefox |grep libnss" shows me nothing
[11:54] <asac> ajmitch: please reinstall firefox and see if that helps
[11:55] <Mithrandir> I suspect libnss3 replaces firefox.
[11:56] <ajmitch> right, symlink is in place after the reinstall
[12:03] <asac> ok ... i hate to add conflicts on libnss3 for firefox, but i don't see any other option. ideas?
[12:08] <triceratops> Does anyone know how many GByte disk space it will need for apt mirror Dapper, Feisty and Gutsy?
[12:09] <triceratops> s/apt mirror/apt-mirror/
[12:10] <tepsipakki> triceratops: 70GB for x86
[12:12] <triceratops> tepsipakki: I just had a first look to man apt-mirror and it says it will fetch x86 and the 64bit archs, am I wrong here?
[12:13] <pochu> triceratops: you should consider mirror edgy too, since upgrades from dapper to feisty are only supported with dapper>edgy>feisty
[12:13] <tepsipakki> triceratops: you can configure it
[12:14] <triceratops> pochu: oops mixed dapper and egdy, its the lts i'm interested in
[12:15] <triceratops> tepsipakki: so 70GB for x86 binary (no src deb's)
[12:16] <tepsipakki> triceratops: no, all of it
[12:17] <tepsipakki> besides, it will get bigger during gusty development
[12:17] <tepsipakki> uh, gutsy
[12:19] <triceratops> tepsipakki: I'm asking because I#m looking for a solution for a guy who has no internet connection, very common in developing countries...
[12:19] <triceratops> tepsipakki: So my idea is to sent him a full set of cd's to set up a full mirror as a starting point.
[12:20] <StevenK> triceratops: That could be like 100 CDs?
[12:20] <tepsipakki> dropping deb-src lines should save some
[12:20] <StevenK> My mirror for Edgy, Feisty and Gutsy for i386 and amd64 is 45Gb.
[12:20] <tepsipakki> also, that has -updates, -backports, installer..
[12:20] <triceratops> StevenK: Your'e right, what just makes me think of sending a hd instead..
[02:47] <Lutin> Mithrandir: could you let cinepaint ~proposed2 go into feisty-proposed so I can test it ?
[03:20] <socrano> where do i find a good "kubuntu alternate install cd" .iso (i.e. with the md5sum matching 5c19803a2a34996e68be96a279371b5d)? i downloaded it from five different mirrors and i got different md5sums! is this a known issue?
[03:22] <socrano> even http://releases.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/feisty/ (which i considered most official and probably the source server) has a broken copy!
[03:23] <sn0> socrano how are you downloading it? sounds like its getting corrupted on download
[03:24] <sn0> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/daily/current/feisty-alternate-i386.iso | 5c19803a2a34996e68be96a279371b5d *feisty-alternate-i386.iso
[03:24] <socrano> sn0: ftp, http, then rsync, rsync, and rsync again (on many mirrors)
[03:24] <sn0> maybe try a different method of downloading, wget or another browser just incase
[03:24] <sn0> ahh strange 
[03:25] <sn0> isp problems? have you tried from another ip
[03:25] <socrano> sn0: wow, does the "/daily/" in the path express what it means?
[03:25] <socrano> sn0: yeah, i used some proxies too
[03:25] <socrano> sn0: i tried everything
[03:26] <socrano> sn0: but i will try your mirror too
[03:26] <sn0> socrano daily was the link for the daily/daily-live images before feisty was released on the 17th~
[03:26] <socrano> sn0: it looks quite official too :)
[03:26] <sn0> ill try downloading on a server here quickly to see, but during iso testing there were no such problems found
[03:26] <StevenK> sn0: 19th.
[03:27] <sn0> StevenK yea, the alternate image candidate was from the 17th, sorry for confusion
[03:27] <socrano> sn0: http://releases.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/feisty/kubuntu-7.04-alternate-i386.iso gives me d19ac271796c2956014e6f68f80c8d2b
[03:28] <sn0> trying now on the first link socrano , 2 ticks
[03:28] <sn0> 5c19803a2a34996e68be96a279371b5d  feisty-alternate-i386.iso
[03:29] <sn0> says md5sum
[03:29] <sn0> second image downloading now, be done in a min
[03:29] <sn0> if you want to talk in pm work away socrano , im not sure there is the place for these comments
[03:34] <sn0> socrano and the 2nd link gives me: 5c19803a2a34996e68be96a279371b5d  kubuntu-7.04-alternate-i386.iso
[03:46] <pitti> hmm, no spec for grumpy yet? /me creates one
[04:37] <carlos> mvo: hi
[04:39] <mvo> hey carl
[04:39] <mvo> hey carlos
[04:39] <carlos> mvo: could you take a look to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/language-selector/+bug/47280 ?
[04:39] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 47280 in rosetta "Please add en_NZ "English (New Zealand)" to preferred languages list" [Medium,Needs info]  
[04:40] <carlos> mvo: could you confirm/deny the comment about language-selector not doing the right thing with en_NZ?
[04:41] <mvo> carlos: I have a look
[04:42] <carlos> mvo: thank you
[04:45] <pitti> cjwatson: do you still remember 57_allow_bus_virtual.patch in hal? I didn't find any reference to this upstream, and it does not apply to current gutsy's hal at all; what was that for?
[04:46] <mjg59> Some input devices appeared to send stuff from BUS_VIRTUAL
[04:48] <pitti> there is no "BUS_" at all any more
[04:58] <carlospc> ts
[05:15] <cjwatson> pochu: if you're in ubuntu-core-dev, sure; if not, it tends to be just as easy for a core-dev to do the merge as to review somebody else's merge, so I can do it
[05:16] <cjwatson> pitti: that was for uinput devices brought up using mouseemu
[05:16] <Hobbsee> hi cjwatson 
[05:16] <cjwatson> hi
[05:16] <cjwatson> finally caught up on this channel, ish
[05:16] <cjwatson> pitti: include/linux/input.h still has BUS_VIRTUAL
[05:17] <pitti> cjwatson: do you still have the equipment to verify that gutsy's hal DTRT onw?
[05:17] <cjwatson> pitti: yes, once I get round to upgrading
[05:17] <cjwatson> I have two such pieces of equipment in fact
[05:17] <cjwatson> pitti: or you could install mouseemu
[05:18] <cjwatson> oh, no, it was the power button, not mouseemu in general. OK, I only have one such piece of equipment then
[05:18] <pitti> cjwatson: ah, can do; if it works, all is well?
[05:18] <cjwatson> no, you need a system with a power button on the keyboard
[05:18] <cjwatson> then (re)start mouseemu after gnome-power-manager starts
[05:18] <cjwatson> then test whether the power button activates g-p-m
[05:19] <pitti> hm, my iBook has a power button
[05:25] <\sh> keescook, ping...the binfmt thingy you included in wine, does work on the cli but in nautilus not...I wonder if we should give wine a desktop file again and triggering the execution of .exe files.
[05:27] <keescook> \sh: allowing wine stuff to get run without a +x bit is dangerous.  :(  I think nautilus needs to be patched to attempt to run +x files.
[05:27] <keescook> it seems to do it correctly for elf only.
[05:27] <\sh> keescook, well, I set the exe file to 755 and it works correctly on cli....but not with nautilus...
[05:28] <keescook> \sh: right.  that's why I think it's a bug with nautilus.
[05:28] <keescook> if you do the same with an ELF +x file, it works fine.
[05:28] <davmor2> Query on Ubuntu-hwdb  Could this not be a first time install request.  That is to say after installation could it not popup a message similar to the restricted drivers manager,  that ask the user to take a couple of minutes to fill in the hwdb?
[05:28] <\sh> keescook, and I have this bug report about it...so should we say: behaviour is correct, because nautilus is broken regarding running dos exe files?
[05:29] <pitti> so it always checks MIME type apparently
[05:29] <pitti> davmor2: feisty doesn't give such a notification
[05:29] <pitti> davmor2: we disabled it for various reasons
[05:29] <davmor2> pitti:  Sorry I'm thinking for gutsy
[05:30] <\sh> keescook / pitti: question is, should I bring back the .desktop file for mime type, as long as this bug is in nautilus?
[05:30] <keescook> \sh: we need to involve the gnome upstream, I think.  I have a sense that it makes exceptions for ELF rather than +x files.
[05:30] <pitti> \sh: I advise against it; it opens a large attack vector
[05:30] <pitti> \sh: the other day we got a security@ubuntu.com mail that Ubuntu executes Windows virii
[05:30] <pitti> (yes, wine is that good)
[05:31] <pitti> and the strict 'save download stuff non-executable' vs. 'only run executable stuff' prevents accidental execution
[05:31] <jsgotangco> heh
[05:31] <\sh> pitti, I know...but should we then remove the binfmt as well? just because chmod 755 <exefile> ; ./exefile starts like a charm?
[05:31] <pitti> which is a good thing to maintain, and a life saver at times
[05:31] <iwj> seb128: Did you write up what came out of the disk full workshop anywhere ?
[05:31] <pochu> cjwatson: that's good enough :) I want it since I'm packaging an app whose documentation is licensed under the GFDL, and I'm linking to it under /usr/share/common-licenses :)
[05:31] <keescook> \sh: only +x files should be runnable (and adding a .desktop file for an exec format avoids that check)
[05:31] <pitti> \sh: no, I think we should fix nautilus; I guess it isn't that hard
[05:32] <ion_> http://winehq.com/  Compatible Application Database  Viruses
[05:32] <\sh> ok..so I'll document it in the report and forget about that for now :)
[05:33] <pitti> \sh: if there is a bug about that, please assign it to nautilus and perhaps milestone it
[05:33] <seb128> iwj: I dumped the notes on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BootLoginWithFullFilesystem
[05:33] <pitti> so that final gutsy will actually work with wine
[05:33] <\sh> k
[05:34] <\sh> pitti / keescook : thx for your answers :)
[05:34] <pitti> \sh: thanks for bearing with us *hug*
[05:34] <keescook> :)
[05:35] <pitti> \sh: the report about Windows viruses scared the hell out of me TBH
[05:36] <\sh> pitti, well, all bug reports about wine are scaring the sh*t out of me ... I just had a nice discussion about wine @#winehq ... "I'll make wine brown/blue for ubuntu/kubuntu" "if you do that, I'll kick you out of the wine-network" ,)
[05:37] <iwj> seb128: Ah, thanks.  For some reason my search for `Full' didn't find it.
[05:37] <\sh> pitti, the last comment wasn't a joke, really
[05:39] <seb128> iwj: no problem, sorry I forgot to update the LP spec
[05:45] <iwj> seb128: You say in the spec "Display a dialog on login explaining that the user needs to free some space and then restart his session".
[05:45] <iwj> But we saw one of these.  Is it just the case that we need to improve the wording ?
[05:46] <seb128> iwj: the window was a xterm with message printed to it, having a small GTK dialog would be nicer and that's not a lot of work
[05:49] <iwj> seb128: I've fleshed the spec out a bit.  Let me know what you think.
[05:50] <cjwatson> pochu: blink, Debian added the GFDL to common-licenses?
[05:51] <elmo> cjwatson: yes
[05:52] <cjwatson> wow
[05:53] <seb128> iwj: looks good to me
[05:53] <iwj> I'll set it to pending approval.
[05:53] <seb128> good
[05:57] <iwj> Hrm, I seem to have used the word `wossname' in UdevLvmMdadmEvmsAgain
[05:58] <iwj> Results 1 - 10 of about 171,000 for evms documentation   Did you mean: emacs documentation
[05:59] <Keybuk> that's a harsh suggestion
[05:59] <Keybuk> though I'm not sure whether it's harsher on evms or emacs
[05:59] <pochu> cjwatson: they did, as you can see in Debian #356447
[05:59] <ubotu> Debian bug 356447 in base-files "/usr/share/common-licences: please add GFDL" [Wishlist,Open]  http://bugs.debian.org/356447
[06:00] <cjwatson> pochu: have you actually read the bug you're citing? ;-)
[06:01] <pochu> cjwatson: sorry, it's not correct
[06:01] <pochu> cjwatson: see http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/b/base-files/base-files_4.0.0/changelog
[06:01] <pochu> cjwatson: and the other day, that bug was marked as "fix released" :)
[06:02] <pochu> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=420599
[06:02] <ubotu> Debian bug 420599 in base-files "please include GFDL in /usr/share/common-licenses (it's in policy" [Wishlist,Closed]  
[06:02] <ogra> BenC, could you produce an additional -ltsp kernel based on that config for me ? http://www.mcquillansystems.com/config-2.6.20.9-ltsp-1
[06:02] <ogra> i mean as a package we can use
[06:02] <pochu> That was the right bug, sorry :)
[06:03] <BenC> ogra: Only if you update it to 2.6.22-3 :)
[06:03] <BenC> there's a lot of config changes between .20 and .22, I wouldn't know what to guess for ltsp for a lot of it
[06:03] <ogra> i'll talk to jim then ...
[06:04] <ogra> jammcq, we'll need a .22 config ... 
[06:04] <jammcq> yeah, is .22 out yet?
[06:05] <BenC> Anyone know if the cloop kernel module we have is actually used anywhere?
[06:05] <BenC> jammcq: .22-rc1
[06:05] <ogra> BenC, i'm fine maintaining the config ... how are custom packages handled, does the kernel team take that or do i have to take that as well ?
[06:05] <ogra> i.e. how does the -lowlatency thing work 
[06:05] <ogra> does ubuntustudio care for it ? 
[06:05] <BenC> ogra: -rt and -xen are built as debian/binary-custom.d/ targets
[06:05] <ogra> ok
[06:06] <BenC> I send all bugs against those packages to the respective team
[06:06] <ogra> but are built anyway on every kernel package build
[06:06] <BenC> so I can do the same for ltsp
[06:06] <ogra> ok
[06:06] <ogra> thats fine
[06:06] <BenC> need to let me know which architectures you want to build for, and supply a .config for each one
[06:06] <ogra> ppc and i386 for now
[06:07] <ogra> jammcq, do we want amd64 ?
[06:07] <ogra> s/want/need/
[06:07] <jammcq> hmm, dunno
[06:07] <BenC> you can check debian/binary-custom.d/ in our git tree, and copy what we've done for xen/rt
[06:07] <BenC> you'll have an empty diff file
[06:07] <ogra> i actually had *one* user usig amd64 clients
[06:07] <BenC> what all is changed for ltsp kernel?
[06:08] <BenC> is it just reduction of modules, because I'm not sure we can justify an entire build just to build less modules
[06:08] <ogra> BenC, no idea, but apparenly jims kernel reaches even the initramfs twice as fast as ours
[06:08] <BenC> I'd be interested to know how, because our base kernel doesn't have much built into it :)
[06:09] <ogra> if we're through the initramfs the 4.2 users already have the login screen
[06:09] <ogra> yeah
[06:09] <jammcq> BenC: yeah, it really doesn't make sense to me either.  but with ltsp-4.2, we can be at a login screen in 41 secs on this particular hardware. whereas with ubuntu, it's more like 94 secs
[06:09] <pochu> cjwatson: that should close Bug #27924
[06:09] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 27924 in base-files "include common documentation licenses" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/27924
[06:10] <cjwatson> I just saw the same thing, yes
[06:10] <ogra> i got our ltsp down to boot in 1:30 on the e2300 by dropping the X detection (sadly i cant drop udev), while jims does it in 40secs
[06:11] <BenC> really, how long is it before initramfs is started?
[06:11] <BenC> I mean it should be just 1-3 seconds depending on hw
[06:11] <ogra> jammcq, lets do more measuring with break=top/bottom
[06:11] <ogra> that should give us initramfs timing
[06:11] <jammcq> ogra: can you give that a try?
[06:11] <ogra> will do
[06:11] <jammcq> tanks
[06:12] <BenC> jammcq, ogra: get back to me with configs, preferably to kernel-team@lists.ubuntu.com so we can review it...
[06:12] <ogra> to bad i have to stopwatch :P now that the differences will be smaller
[06:12] <ogra> BenC, oki
[06:12] <cjwatson> pochu: uploaded, thanks
[06:14] <keescook> the Debian maintainer of samba is looking for a contact for discussing merging of the ubuntu packaging deltas.  who would be the best person for them to talk to?  I was email since I touched samba last.  :)
[06:14] <pochu> cjwatson: thanks to you :)
[06:14] <Burgundavia> keescook: ajmitch might be a good person
[06:15] <Hobbsee> keescook: or mvo
[06:15] <keescook> Hobbsee, Burgundavia: okay, thanks.
[06:15] <Hobbsee> you were the last to touch it
[07:07] <\sh> jono, are you the whole week at linuxtag?
[07:07] <luisbg> jono, lucky dude
[07:07] <jono> \sh: yep
[07:08] <jono> luisbg: being at LinuxTag all week?
[07:08] <\sh> jono, cool...let's have some beer then ;)
[07:08] <jono> \sh: got it :)
[07:08] <luisbg> jono, I wish... UDS seamed short for me, need more :P
[07:09] <racarr> I think we would have all been zombies if it had lasted much longer.
[07:09] <jono> hehe
[07:10] <luisbg> racarr, happy zombies, heh
[07:10] <jono> I am pretty shattered
[07:10] <luisbg> even though watching jono dance the last night, made me a creepy zombie
[07:10] <jono> luisbg: haha
[07:11] <jono> luisbg: was a fun night
[07:11] <luisbg> jono, yeahh, you and juanje ruled the place, and the rest of us got girls
[07:11] <luisbg> can't ask for anything else
[07:11] <Hobbsee> heh
[07:11] <jono> heh
[07:12] <luisbg> luckily enough my room mate joejaxx, had left for his airplane at 4am
[07:12] <\sh> jono had kwwii in his arms...that was just enough for me to lol ;)
[07:12] <luisbg> \sh, LOL!
[07:12] <luisbg> are there pics of that?
[07:12] <jono> I hope not
[07:12] <jono> :P
[07:13] <iwj> Keybuk: Did you want to cast an eye over https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UdevLvmMdadmEvmsAgain ?  I've set it to Review.
[07:13] <sladen> does anyone have non-IRC contact details for Corey Burger
[07:13] <iwj> "Corey Burger" <corey.burger@gmail.com>
[07:13] <Keybuk> iwj: thanks, has everyone else in the bof (kees, etc.?) cast their eye over it as well?
[07:13] <Hobbsee> then again, we wouldnt be surprised if jono managed to do ohter crazy things.
[07:13] <iwj> Says my mailbox, quoted from the headers of a post to u-d-a.
[07:14] <iwj> Keybuk: No.
[07:14] <pitti> sladen: https://launchpad.net/~corey.burger has an email
[07:14] <Keybuk> iwj: that would be worthwhile, to make sure bases and concerns are covered
[07:14] <keescook> Keybuk: reading now...
[07:14] <luisbg> sladen, when is the second video of UDS coming out? is it coming with kino insults too?
[07:14] <racarr> Hobbsee: Like Elk a Buntu.
[07:14] <Hobbsee> exactly
[07:14] <iwj> Keybuk: Right.
[07:14] <Hobbsee> racarr: well, i never found jono in our hotel room, so i dont *think* anything like that happened
[07:14] <Keybuk> one should leverage ones co-workers wherever possible ;)
[07:15] <jono> Hobbsee: heh
[07:15] <jono> Hobbsee: certainly not
[07:15] <jono> :)
[07:15] <iwj> We didn't make a list of people in the bof, but definitely Kees and Fabio seem like they ought to have opinions.
[07:15] <Hobbsee> unless they were in jono's room, of course :P
[07:17] <racarr> Jonos refrigerator was broken and...
[07:17] <sladen> luisbg: as soon as I find my wallet or some cash etc.
[07:17] <sladen> pitti: yeah, phone number type thing
[07:18] <keescook> Keybuk, iwj: so, the "make utils build nodes" solution is the decided direction again?  Also, I don't see any mention of building some kind of simple test case harness.
[07:19] <keescook> I think at least having a base set of tests could be used to have a common reference if people encounter races
[07:19] <Keybuk> it's certainly one valid direction
[07:19] <Keybuk> I think it's worth having a kernel person look at the "fix the damned kernel" direction as well
[07:19] <keescook> as the BoF closed, it sounded like the patch-the-kernel direction was "final" solution?
[07:20] <keescook> also, the mention of a system-wide scan lock file worries me, since the notes from the BoF basically said "a global lock was tried and didn't work"
[07:23] <Keybuk> there's two weeks available for research into which is best before the spec is approved
[07:23] <Keybuk> (since the approved spec should arguably document all valid approaches discussed, including the udevsend one, and explain why they were rejected and why the favoured solution was chosen - backed up by evidence)
[07:27] <iwj> keescook: The global lock doesn't work because the device node creation was threaded back and forth through udev, meaning that you had to run different things at the same time with the lock held.
[07:28] <iwj> Tests are no good for races because the very nature of races is that they come and go.
[07:28] <micahcowan> cjwatson, thanks for uploading the gawk fix :)
[07:28] <cjwatson> micahcowan: you're welcome, sorry it took so long
[07:28] <cjwatson> I'm looking into getting a kernel person to investigate this
[07:29] <cjwatson> this> udev lvm/mdadm/evms/blah
[07:29] <iwj> Keybuk: I don't think the kernel is buggy.  How is it buggy for it to report udev events for the snapshot-origin device that lvm makes ?  It's not.  But we don't want to run vol_id on it.
[07:30] <keescook> iwj: race conditions can have tests written for them; it's just a matter of understanding where the race is and getting a wedge into it to expand the race.  I'm not saying it's easy, but I'm suggesting that having _any_ set of test cases is better than none, since then everyone discussing a problem has a common frame of reference.
[07:30] <cjwatson> even if it turns out not to be a kernel issue, this set of userspace code is one that we'd like to have the kernel team take on, medium-term
[07:30] <iwj> keescook: Well, yes, that might be worth it if we had (a) a clear idea of what the races are and (b) weren't proposing to upend the design.
[07:30] <cjwatson> since they interact so much
[07:31] <Keybuk> iwj: it's arguably a kernel wishlist bug for it to support not reporting
[07:31] <iwj> cjwatson: I want to reduce that interaction, to some extend.
[07:31] <iwj> s/end/ent/
[07:31] <Keybuk> and since we have the source code to the kernel, it's an equally valid place to fix the bug as in udev or lvm or devmapper, etc.
[07:32] <Keybuk> if it turns out that fixing it in the kernel has extra benefits than userspace, it shouldn't be dismissed as an option out of hand
[07:32] <Keybuk> (likewise, it may turn out to have particular downsides)
[07:32] <iwj> Well, my well-known position is that it's crazy kernel philosophy from upstream that has broken all of this stuff and I'd like to avoid depending any more on kernel stuff than is necessary.  AIUI upstream kernel opinion is to put things in userspace too if possible.
[07:32] <iwj> Using the kernel as a complicated stateful IPC facility seems wrong.
[07:34] <iwj> Anyway, for synthetic devices only the tool which is creating and managing the device knows whether and when it ought to be scanned so it ought to be in control of that scanning.  This means that all of the kernel events for those devices are not really interesting.
[07:35] <cjwatson> iwj: independently of that, the bottom level of userspace is an area where I think it's appropriate for the kernel team to get involved.
[07:35] <iwj> cjwatson: Oh, absolutely.
[07:36] <iwj> I think Kyle was in the bof and might want to take an interest.
[07:40] <Keybuk> iwj: since the kernel *is* providing the state facility for devmapper devices, I'm not sure that one can simply dismiss the option of using it to add an extra state variable out of hand
[07:40] <Keybuk> and I would really like to see it have at least the minimum investigation and noted in the spec
[07:40] <Keybuk> if it's rejected after consideration, that's fine
[07:42] <tkamppeter> pitti, hi
[07:42] <pitti> hey tkamppeter 
[07:43] <tkamppeter> pitti, you have been in Sevilla?
[07:43] <adilson> tkamppeter: Grande Till! :) Here's Adilson, ex-Conectiva, now Canonical ;)
[07:43] <tkamppeter> oi, adilson, como vai?
[07:43] <pitti> tkamppeter: yes, I have been
[07:44] <tkamppeter> Everyone goes from other distros to Ubuntu.
[07:44] <tkamppeter> pitti, was there much talk about printing?
[07:44] <tkamppeter> Did someone ask for me?
[07:45] <pitti> tkamppeter: not really, except for a rough idea how to create a print server OOTB for the server project
[07:45] <pitti> and a quick discussion with Jani about system-config-printer
[07:48] <tkamppeter> Yes, I have seen the latter in the event schedules and in the Blueprint I have seen that your conclusion was to mark it obsolete.
[07:48] <tkamppeter> So printerdrake will (I hope) be the solution for Gutsy?
[07:48] <pitti> well, Jani did apparently
[07:49] <pitti> situation hasn't changed, we need someone to port it to Ubuntu and work on the UI
[07:49] <iwj> Keybuk: Does `Alternative approach - Publication list stored in kernel' at the bottom of the wiki page describe the kind of idea you had in mind ?
[07:49] <pitti> s-c-printer's UI needs work as well, but at least it already works in Ubuntu
[07:49] <tkamppeter> And will the GUI replacement for printerdrake now really happen? This was what blocked printerdrake and dependent features.
[07:50] <pitti> it won't magically happen :) do you want to adopt that?
[07:51] <Keybuk> iwj: only if it documents why the alternative approach was rejected, explaining why the suggested approach is better
[07:51] <tkamppeter> What about this "mpt" who is mentioned on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/printerdrake
[07:52] <pitti> tkamppeter: he can design a UI, but not implement it, nor do the initial porting
[07:53] <pitti> well, if we have a live CD with a working printerdrake, we do not need to port the current version to Ubuntu (which is difficult because of exactly those parts we want to get rid of anyway)
[07:53] <iwj> Keybuk: Err, since this is your alternative approach rather than mine, I was asking you whether I had captured your proposal.
[07:54] <tkamppeter> So we need someone who does the GTK programming? I did not really program GTK stuff. The main window of printerdrake is copied from userdrake, and in gnome-cups-manager I only replaced text.
[07:54] <cjwatson> tkamppeter: we can't target printerdrake for gutsy unless there is a realistic prospect of the necessary dependencies being done
[07:55] <Keybuk> iwj: no.  I suspect it may be easier for me to document my alternative approach in the spec, and leave it up to the drafter/assignee to decide on one before it is approved
[07:55] <Keybuk> iwj: it's also worth documenting the udevsend approach as well (send synthetic uevents) and why that was rejected
[07:56] <Keybuk> since that was a useful piece of insight it would be helpful to have written down, so future generations of ubuntu developers don't have to discover it for theirselves
[07:56] <Keybuk> meh, themselves
[07:56] <pitti> seb128: FYI, I just wrote https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CrashReporting, I hope I got it alright now
[07:57] <seb128> pitti: looking
[07:57] <seb128> should strip the "," after an url ;)
[07:57] <pochu> seb128: irssi ftw :)
[07:58] <tkamppeter> pitti, has the crash retracing been shut down? I tried to retrace bug 114637, but the retracer does nothing else then removing the tag and never posts the retrace.
[07:58] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 114637 in gs-esp "[apport]  gs-esp crashed with SIGSEGV" [Undecided,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/114637
[07:58] <pitti> tkamppeter: if it removed the tag, it's running; let me look into the log
[07:59] <seb128> pitti: shouldn't the anonymous point be part of the design? 
[07:59] <pitti> seb128: hm, you really want people to file anonymous bugs?
[08:00] <pitti> seb128: AFAIR we didn't talk about that point, but I'm happy to discuss it now
[08:00] <seb128> pitti: no, I was saying it should be moved to "Design" section rather than "Rational"
[08:00] <pitti> ah, I see
[08:00] <iwj> Keybuk: Right.
[08:01] <pitti> tkamppeter: aah: report file does not contain required fields: CoreDump Package ExecutablePath
[08:01] <pitti> tkamppeter: presumably this was sent as a 'reduced' crash report without core dump
[08:02] <pitti> tkamppeter: that's fixed in gutsy btw, it won't offer that option if the stack trace is useless
[08:02] <seb128> pitti: why "Create Launchpad users which control access to the bug, split by main/restricted and universe/multiverse."
[08:02] <seb128> pitti: can't we use ubuntu-core-dev and ubuntu-dev?
[08:02] <tkamppeter> So there were some options in the reporting wizard to reduce the report which made it unusable?
[08:03] <tkamppeter> So should I reject it? What should I ask the user to do when this crash occurs again?
[08:03] <pitti> seb128: anonymous> hmm, I can move it there, but the text gives a rationale about using Malone
[08:04] <pitti> seb128: no, that would cause all team members to get email for all crashes
[08:04] <seb128> pitti: k, I'm not spec approver, it just looked weird to have implementation details there
[08:04] <pitti> tkamppeter: rejecting is fine; if it happens again, apport will file a new bug anyway
[08:04] <pitti> tkamppeter: so don't hesitate to reject useless crash bugs
[08:04] <pitti> seb128: ok; if it confuses you, I'll move it
[08:04] <seb128> pitti: k, that's what I asked during the BOF outside, any reason ubuntu-core-dev can't browse private bugs?
[08:05] <pitti> seb128: primarily a Launchpad design issue, AFAICS
[08:05] <seb128> pitti: your way looks like a good workaround but I think ubuntu-core-dev should be allow to browse any private bug which is no !security
[08:05] <seb128> k
[08:06] <pitti> seb128: I tend to agree; well, with that spec this is essentially what happens
[08:06] <seb128> the specs looks fine to me
[08:06] <pitti> seb128: I just updated it to move the reasons to design
[08:06] <seb128> I would prefer having ubuntu-core-dev and ubuntu-dev able to read their respective set of bugs
[08:07] <seb128> but the group way would work fine
[08:07] <seb128> and doesn't make use block on launchpad change
[08:07] <seb128> s/use/us
[08:08] <pitti> ah, now
[08:08] <pitti> seb128: ok, thanks for review; so I move this to pending approval
[08:14] <robertj> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/simplesamba would benefit by having a drafter assigned to it, is there some process by which people are assigned as drafters or is it possible for specs to die awaiting a drafter?
[08:23] <pitti> robertj: not a defined one; if you are interested in it, just update the spec and mail ubuntu-devel@ about it if you want to work on it
[08:25] <Hobbsee> any idea what time libraries usually open?
[08:26] <robertj> pitti: well I wrote the initial draft, so I don't know that I have anything more to add
[08:28] <pitti> robertj: ah, I see; could you please clean it up a little? the current 'design' section is actually 'implementation', and there should be a design section which describes the changes at a more abstract English level, together with some rationale
[08:28] <pitti> robertj: but feel free to set yourself as a drafter, you wrote it after all
[08:29] <pitti> robertj: I would also appreciate some more detail in the use cases: 'log in' -> from where to where, which OS, etc/
[08:29] <pitti> s_/_?_
[08:29] <luisbg> hello ompaul 
[08:31] <robertj> pitti: will do, I'll update it now
[08:31] <ompaul> luisbg, hi there
[08:32] <luisbg> ompaul, thanks for the reply
[08:33] <luisbg> to the mail a few days back
[08:33] <ompaul> np
[08:36] <luisbg> ompaul, how was your trip back?
[08:38] <ompaul> good - we may be a bit ot for here :)
[08:39] <ompaul> ubugflu kicked in today
[08:40] <Treenaks> ompaul: same for me
[08:40] <Treenaks> ompaul: I blame the aussies, they didn't get it
[08:40] <Treenaks> ompaul: which means they must be the source :)
[08:40] <ompaul> Treenaks, no they were just in a clean upstream
[08:44] <ompaul> Treenaks, iirc its all jono's fault :)
[08:44] <ompaul> or was that the ducks
[08:44] <Treenaks> ompaul: duck flu? mmmh
[08:45] <Hobbsee> mmm...ducks
[08:45] <ompaul> a duck flu over the cuckoos nest?
[08:46] <Treenaks> Hobbsee: oh no, you're a duck lover too now?
[08:46] <Hobbsee> Treenaks: nah.  just the ducks are good for giving you the plauge.
[08:46] <Hobbsee> *plague
[08:46] <Treenaks> Hobbsee: isn't it very late @ your timezone?
[08:47] <Hobbsee> Treenaks: yes.
[08:47] <Treenaks> (or _very_ early?)
[08:47] <Hobbsee> Treenaks: almost 5am
[08:47] <Treenaks> Hobbsee: ugh..
[08:47] <Hobbsee> Treenaks: rather.
[08:48] <geser> Hobbsee: are you still living on europe time?
[08:48] <Hobbsee> geser: sort of.  mostly.
[08:49] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: you should!
[08:49] <Treenaks> yes!
[08:49] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: i wish!
[08:50] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: just finish that pesky university and move here
[08:50] <Hobbsee> unfortunately, i dont have the resources to do it, and i've only done 1/2 of my degree.  and it's a little hard to take up at another uni in another country
[08:50] <Hobbsee> hehe
[08:51] <gnomefreak> pitti is apport purposely not giving the coredump on crashes?
[08:52] <iwj> Keybuk: I've added a paragraph at the bottom about why udevsend was wrong and why it made the udevd code big too.  If you'd like to write up your alternative approach I'd be happy to pass it around to kernel types and generally write up why we adopt it or not.
[08:52] <pitti> gnomefreak: you mean writing a core file to cwd?
[08:52] <pitti> gnomefreak: it should work if you set your ulimit appropriately
[08:52] <gnomefreak> to the crash file
[08:53] <pitti> gnomefreak: oh, it definitively should appear there (unless it's a Python crash)
[08:53] <gnomefreak> mine is leaving off coredump and the traces
[08:53] <gnomefreak> it was a listen.py crash
[08:53] <pitti> weird; in feisty or gutsy?
[08:53] <gnomefreak> both
[08:53] <pochu> gnomefreak: feisty is python :)
[08:53] <pitti> ah, as I said, no coredump necessary for Python crashes
[08:53] <pochu> err, listen is python
[08:54] <pitti> pochu: I'm still pondering that equation
[08:54] <pitti> ah, heh :)
[08:54] <gnomefreak> pochu: yeah i got that. nothing else has crashed yet so i cant tell if its just that
[08:55] <pitti> pochu: http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu -> '# eplacing everything written in C with a Python alternative, examples include GCC (Gnome Cheesecake Compiler)'
[08:57] <bddebian> Heya
[08:57] <pochu> pitti: lol :)
[08:57] <Keybuk> pitti: that reminds me, I still own ubuntucult.org
[08:57] <pochu> hi bddebian!
[08:57] <bddebian> Hello pochu
[08:57] <robertj> pitti: what metapackage do you depend on if you want to be in all the -desktops?
[08:58] <pochu> robertj: ubuntu-desktop?
[09:00] <robertj> pochu: yes, is there one that ubuntu-desktop and kubuntu-desktop and xubuntu-desktop depend on but server does not?
[09:01] <gnomefreak> ubuntu-minimal iirc
[09:01] <Mithrandir> robertj: no
[09:03] <robertj> pitti: ok https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SimpleSambaIntegrationSpec has been revised
[09:04] <cjwatson> robertj: packages that should be in all the -desktop metapackages should be added to the Ubuntu desktop seed and then that change should be 'bzr merge'd to all the others
[09:34] <ajmitch> morning
[09:35] <joejaxx> Good Morning ajmitch 
[09:36] <zul> morning ajmitch 
[09:36] <Hobbsee> hi ajmitch 
[09:37] <ajmitch> keescook: I got that forwarded email about samba, were you planning to merge 3.0.25?
[09:41] <keescook> ajmitch: I hadn't done 3.0.25, just the debian/ubuntu merge.  I'm actually doing some security updates for it too.
[09:41] <ajmitch> ok, from what I saw 3.0.25 got fixes for 3 CVEs just in time for release :)
[09:42] <keescook> perfect, yeah.  those are the ones I'm building atm.
[09:51] <ajmitch> keescook: I'll look over what samba changes we carry & try & talk to the debian guys about it later
[09:51] <keescook> ajmitch: very cool.
[10:10] <ompaul> Treenaks, mind if I pm?
[10:11] <Hobbsee> ompaul: he bites.
[10:11] <ompaul> Hobbsee, naa 
[10:11] <pkl_> ompaul: hello
[11:21] <BenC> elmo: Build-dependencies for linux-restricted-modules-2.6.20 could not be satisfied.
[11:21] <BenC> s/elmo/E/
[11:21] <ion_> :-D
[11:21] <BenC> anyway to get apt to be a little more verbose about what it can't satisfy this?
[11:21] <BenC> ion_: :P
[11:23] <ion_> Hmm. I commented the main repo out from sources.list and tried sudo apt-get build-dep linux-restricted-modules-2.6.20;
[11:23] <ion_> E: Package libqt3-mt-dev has no installation candidate
[11:23] <ion_> E: Failed to satisfy Build-Depends dependency for linux-restricted-modules-2.6.20: libqt3-mt-dev
[12:08] <jovans> will be ext4 integ. in gutsy?
[12:09] <mjg59> No
[12:09] <mjg59> It's not usefully stable yet
[12:09] <jovans> hm
[12:10] <jovans> and reiser4 no hope to come in the future
[12:10] <mjg59> When it's mainline, we'll support it
[12:11] <jovans> but ext4 sure?
[12:11] <mjg59> ext4 currently gets you relatively little over ext3 unless you're talking about multi-terrabyte filesystems
[12:12] <jovans> but the performance is much better on ext4 than on ext3 and the fastest was reiser4
[12:12] <jovans> http://www.linuxinsight.com/first_benchmarks_of_the_ext4_file_system.html