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DBOBenC, just a follow up on what we talked about yesterday.  In a spurt of amazingly horrible luck... its not panicing...01:52
DBOif I didnt have bad luck, I wouldnt have any01:52
DBOIm sure it will go eventually, when I first installed I went about 3 days before it started locking01:53
BenCOk, just let me know when :)02:03
crimsunis this the snd-pcm-oss freeze, or...?02:04
DBOits a more generic issue, im sorry I been running in circles02:05
DBOto be honest crimsun, I am getting very frustrated, but I want to thank you for the help you provided earlier.  We are using kexec tools (with bens help) to fiqure out the exact cause of the panic now.  Only thing is... its not doing it...02:08
DBOSods law02:08
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=== Topic for #ubuntu-kernel: Ubuntu kernel development discussion ONLY | Kernel Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam | Latest kernel upload: 2.6.22-2.7 | Latest news: -rt and -xen kernels removed, failures in patch
=== Topic (#ubuntu-kernel): set by BenC at Fri May 11 11:23:01 2007
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flukebox_anybody here ??10:10
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dade`BenC: i think that the gutsy kernel sould have CONFIG_TIMER_STATS enabled by default11:01
dade`to use linuxpowertop11:01
elmarcoI have a T60, when I dock it, the serial interface (ttyS0) is not working anymore 11:21
elmarcoshould I file a bug in kernel.org, or launchpad?11:21
elmarcoor is it a non-bug?11:21
=== elmarco +1 for dade` comment
maks_mjg59 if you have an ipw2200 patch i can test it on my x4111:30
maks_preferably against 2.6.21, but otherwise fine too11:30
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Keybuk^ so that explains *those* bgs01:35
kylemwant me to fix upstart?01:36
Keybuknah, it's ok, I'll tackle it -- I want to sort out the ide bits while in there01:36
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Keybukactually, this description is wrong, so I'm going to write to the author02:15
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-kernel:BenC] : Ubuntu kernel development discussion ONLY | Kernel Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam | Latest kernel upload: 2.6.22-3.9 | Latest news: -rt and -xen kernels removed, failures in patch. Linux-meta coming today.
Keybukkylem: could I borrow you for a moment02:21
Keybukso, ide_device_shutdown()02:22
Keybukthis is called during the reboot() syscall, right?02:22
kylemlooks like it.02:23
Keybukkernel_power_off -> kernel_shutdown_prepare -> device_shutdown -> *.shutdown -> ide_device_shutdown02:24
Keybukthis would appear to just flush the cache on everything except power off02:24
Keybukfor power off, it calls suspend() on the bus? is that right?02:24
kylemlooks like it, yeah.02:26
Keybukthat would appear to be generic_ide_suspend()02:27
Keybukwhich pushes the state machine into flushing the cache and powering down the drive02:28
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Keybukkylem: have mailed linux-ide, that page is particularly unclear to me02:42
Keybukit seems to refer to workarounds that other distros (not us) have done02:42
Keybukand penalises us for never having broken things in the first place02:42
=== kylem nods.
Keybukat least that explains the clicking noise bugs we've had for ages02:43
Keybuk(for the ide subsystem, not libata:02:43
Keybuk - reboot standbys the drive02:43
Keybuk - calls reboot()02:43
Keybuk - which flushes the cache, spinning the drive back up02:43
Keybuk - and standbys the drive again02:43
Keybukit doesn't explain why we should have to touch libata, since we never tried anything with those02:44
Keybukand since I'm going to have to write code for libata, allegedly, I'd rather get an answer *why* we have to, if there's code to be written, it's just as easy to write it in the kernel02:44
BenCKeybuk: but it would be specific to our kernel :/02:49
BenCsince they obviously know they can't put the real fix in the kernel because other distros already fucked up, it means we'll be carrying around a patch just for us02:50
Keybukactually, I mean for the case where halt/reboot still apparently has to issue the commands on a per-disk/driver basis02:52
Keybukif it's "a few drivers haven't been fixed yet", then it's easier for us to fix those drivers than halt/reboot, no?02:52
BenCah, true02:53
=== Keybuk has no problem writing 0 to compat_shutdown, and not *needing* any code in halt/reboot
Keybukmy concern is that even after writing 0, I might need that code02:53
Keybukand since I'll have to write that code, is there more useful code I could write instead?02:53
ograBenC, i did some measurements for the ltsp slowness comparing tcp and udp based nfsroot ... and found very intresting numbers ... 02:59
BenCogra: udp is faster?03:00
ograwould you agree that udp should be faster ? 03:00
BenCI would think so, but depends I guess03:00
ograusing the classmate as client:03:00
ograudp 10.9M/s , real: 9.420s03:00
ogratcp 11.6M/s , real: 8.887s03:00
ograusing the slow e2300 jim tested with as client:03:00
ograudp 2.4M/s , real: 42.763s03:00
ogratcp 3.6M/s , real: 28.656s03:00
mjg59This is on 100MBit?03:00
ograthats always dding a 100M file from the nfsroot to /dev/null03:01
ogramjg59, yep, a gigabit card in my lappie which acts as server dmegs tells me it negotiates 100M FD03:01
BenCso it's a direct cable too, no switch/hub?03:02
kylemnfs sucks, news at 11.03:02
mjg59I think the classmate figures are close enough together for the difference not to be terribly meaningful03:02
ograi would expect some significat difference between udp and tcp03:02
mjg59On a duplex connection?03:02
mjg59Why? The overhead isn't going to be that great03:02
BenCI think the more important numbers are the 2.4M/s on the e2300 compared to the 10.9M/s on the classmate :)03:03
mjg59The e2300 figures are much more interesting03:03
ograhmm, but udp is even slower .... i would expect a connectionless thing to be always faster03:03
mjg59ogra: On the Classmate, the figures are close enough that they're probably effectively identical03:03
ograwell, the e2300 has a 200Mhz CPU03:03
ograthe classmate is a celeron 90003:03
ogra*celeron M03:03
mjg59The Classmate is clearly limited by the network03:04
mjg59The question is what the limiting factor on the e2300 is03:04
mjg59What does top look like during that?03:04
ograwhere ? on the server 03:04
ograi cant run top wile booting03:04
ogra(on the client)03:04
mjg59You're dding a file03:04
mjg59To /dev/null03:04
mjg59If you can do that, you can run top :)03:05
ograah, that yeah03:05
ograindeed, i'm into bootspeeds etm, sorry03:05
ogralet me reboot to get to a shell ... 03:05
ogratakes 3 min ...03:05
ograoh, btw i'm using busybox mount for udp atm as opposed to klibc nfsmount for tcp ...03:07
mjg59Should make no difference03:07
ogradd takes 90% CPU03:08
ogra95 now03:08
ogra3% for rpciod03:08
ograintrestingly i also seem to get no caching ... running the dd command a second time should give faster results, no ?03:09
mjg59Not if the file is approximately all your memory, no...03:11
ograwell i have 128M03:11
ograoh, wait03:11
ograwhy does top only show 64 ?03:11
=== ogra looks in the BIOS
ograok, 64M videoram and 64M shared mem ...03:14
ograswitched that to 8M each03:14
ograok, that looks different ... 118M now03:15
ograok, caching seems to work ....03:18
ogradropped from 24 sec to 1203:18
ograon the second run03:18
BenCogra: oooh...64Megs of mem, that'll do it03:20
BenCI accidentally booted to gnome desktop with 64Megs of mem while doing kdump stuff03:20
BenCwas horrible03:20
ograwell, it didnt help much03:21
ograstill 24sec for that file 03:21
ograand still 3min bootimes03:21
ograwhile ltsp 4.2 stays below a minute03:22
mjg59ogra: And top while dding it (for the first time, avoiding caching)?03:22
BenC4.2 is the one that doesn't do nfsroot, but does nfsmount and symlinks, right?03:23
ogradd eats all CPU it can03:23
ograBenC, right, we tried that in our initramfs ... smae results03:23
mjg59Ok. So you're CPU limited, not network limited.03:23
mjg59Can you try an older kernel?03:23
ograbut there is still that significant difference between 4.2 and 503:24
mjg59Try the 4.2 kernel03:24
ograi tried the edgy one already (4.2 uses 2.6.18) 03:24
ograno difference03:24
mjg59Then this would seem to be the wrong place to be bringing the issue up :)03:25
ograno difference between our kernels i mean03:25
mjg59And with the LTSP kernel?03:26
Mithrandirhave you tried ltsp 4.2 with the feisty kernel too?03:26
ogranot yet03:26
ograi'll poke around with both today ... but clearly something is different with our nfsroot ...03:27
ogradebians kernel isnt much faster btw03:27
Mithrandirall this is pointing towards this being a userspace problem, then.03:27
ograwe tried their chroot as well03:28
mjg59Either there's a difference between the ltsp 4.2 kernel and our kernel03:28
ograwell, i thought i found the magic bullet when i saw the 4.2 is only faking nfsroot with tmpfses ... but that didnt change anything for us03:28
mjg59Or it's a userspace issue03:28
mjg59So, test performance with the 4.2 kernel03:29
ograwill do03:29
mjg59If it's three times better, then we have a kernel issue03:29
mjg59If not, it sounds like a userspace one03:29
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-kernel:BenC] : Ubuntu kernel development discussion ONLY | Kernel Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam | Latest kernel upload: 2.6.22-3.9 | Latest news: -rt and -xen kernels removed, failures in patch. Linux-meta coming today. | Kernel Team meeting in #ubuntu-meeting, today at 16:00 UTC
zulBenC: whats on the agenda?03:34
BenCbasically just recap of UDS03:34
ograoh, i just noticed ... CPU: Vendor unknown using generic init ....03:53
ograbut according to jammcq that shows up in 4.2 as well03:53
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maks_BenC: do you disable CONFIG_IRQBALANCE ?04:53
maks_"The in-kernel irq balancer is obsolete and wakes the CPU up far more than needed."04:53
maks_says powertop04:53
BenCdisabled in last kernel upload04:54
maks_thanks for info :)04:54
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-kernel:BenC] : Ubuntu kernel development discussion ONLY | Kernel Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam | Latest kernel upload: 2.6.22-3.9 | Latest news: -rt and -xen kernels removed, failures in patch. Linux-meta coming today. | Kernel Team meeting in #ubuntu-meeting, today at 15:00 UTC
BenCsorry for time change, meeting is scheduled for 1 minute from now04:59
MithrandirUTC is hard. :-P05:12
racarrI'm even more confused by the fact that it's supposed to be a kernel meeting but they seem to be confirming new members.05:13
zulwell obviously its not a kernel meeting just yet05:14
Mithrandirit's because the previous meeting used too much time05:14
Mithrandirthey're rounding up now05:14
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BenCeveryone here that needs to be?05:18
BenCpkl_, rtg, kylem, cjwatson, zul: ping?05:19
pkl_BenC: here05:19
rtgBenC: hmm?05:19
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BenCOk, so basically this meeting was just to go over some things from UDS05:20
BenCI'm late getting a real agenda up, so please bare with me05:20
BenCSome of the topics we discussed at UDS (and kernel team, feel free to plug things I forgot):05:21
BenC* Wireless05:21
BenC* Power savings05:21
BenC* Ceashdumps05:22
BenCcrashdumps I mean05:22
BenC* Ubuntu Mobile and Embedded05:22
BenC* Virtualization (lightly)05:23
BenCSo we'll go from the top05:23
BenCrtg: do you want to give us a summary of wireless stuff?05:23
rtgI spent a day with Luis Rodriguez, Marcel Holtmann, and Anaky Perez Gonsales designing a frequency broker.05:23
rtgAlso much activity regarding software designed radios and regulatory compliance.05:23
BenCthat's the one announced to kernel-team@ that I've still to read :)05:24
rtgmac80211 development is proceeding briskly.05:24
rtgI', lookingat adding support for ntl80211 in wpa_supplicant.05:24
rtgI guess thats the big 3 items for me.05:25
BenCSounds good05:25
rtgthats all...05:26
BenCI know Luis said that mac80211 in 2.6.22 isn't doing to be complete, but I was able to compile iwlwifi against it without problems (except an sk_buff change)05:26
rtgI haven't quite figured out how to actually use it. 05:26
rtgThat was why I got distracted by wpa_supplicant 05:27
BenCMight be some docs on it somewhere05:27
rtgIts in the source :)05:27
BenCOk, power savings, unfortunately Amit isn't with us yet05:27
BenCBut we now have NO_HZ in the kernel, and TIMER_STATS, so we are able to use powertop to see what is waking up our CPU so much05:27
BenCmjg59 is already working on getting patches into userspace programs which heavily show up in powertop output05:28
BenCwe have some drivers on the hitlist too, so we'll be addressing that during gutsy cycle05:29
maks_bluetooth is really bad afais05:29
BenCyeah, it's the worst offender on my laptop05:29
pkl_there was some discussion of various patches to glibc and other user-land libraries to aggregate timer ticks.05:29
BenCand ipw3945 follows behind it05:29
BenCpkl_: gnome is the main one, from what I can tell05:29
BenCnot sure if it makes sense to patch up sleep in glibc to aggregate things05:30
BenCthere's a spec for all this, so we can add the main issues in there05:30
pkl_there seems to be couple of patches floating around doing the samething, but diferently.05:30
rtgIntel has some kernel patches that also consolidate wakeups.05:31
BenCyeah, we'll be checking into those as well05:31
BenCgutsy should be a nice release for laptops, and we'll probably add powertop to our normal testing to keep from having regressions on stock desktops05:32
rtgI believe you referred to gutsy as 'a laptop users wet dream' :)05:32
BenCyes, that's a direct quote :)05:32
BenCOk, crashdumps...05:33
BenCI've uploaded a kexec-tools that includes an init script and an initramfs script to actually grab vmcore on dumps05:34
maks_i'd be interested in merging that05:34
BenCI plan on making a simple linux-crashdump-{generic,server,...} meta package to install all the right things (kexec-tools, linux-debug-image, etc) and automatically setup grub menu to do all this05:34
BenCmaks_: remind me and I'll send you the scripts05:35
BenCSo the only stopper right now is that the crash program cannot process 2.6.22 vmcore's05:35
maks_ok will do, thanks05:35
BenCbut I expect that will come as 2.6.22 gets closer to release05:36
BenCI want it sooner, so we can actually make use of it though05:36
BenCprobably work on patching crash soon05:36
BenCMartin(pitti) is working on apport integration so we get nice automated bugs from vmcore dumps05:36
BenCand with crash we can analyze bugs that before we couldn't even see (panic's during X that locked up the system)05:37
BenCUbuntu MaE, not a lot of discussion for this in regards to the kernel05:38
BenCwe're going to have a special kernel just for this project, and will be mostly integrating patches for drivers and optimizations05:38
BenC* Virtualization, seems to be no better than it was in feisty05:38
BenCzul: any word on xen+2.6.22?05:39
BenCI'd be happy with just domU support, especially since we have a bug that says even the one kernel where xen existed, didn't support being booted as dom0 anyway :)05:39
zulBenC: updating it to xen-3.1 is going slowly, dumped suse's patch in favour of redhat's again05:39
zulas usual its going slowly again,05:40
zuloh and someone else will probbaly need to take care of openvz or I will suffer a nervous breakdown05:40
BenCI know your quite busy nowadays, perhaps checking the lists for help would be a good idea?05:40
zulyep already talking to the redhat folks05:41
BenCopenvz we'll be leaving to openvz, so don't worry about that05:41
BenCzul: there has to be some ubuntu users that are interested in xen...maybe try the ubuntu devel or kernel-team lists?05:41
zulsure Ill do that when I get home05:41
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BenCI know we have vendors interested in xen on our lists, so maybe they can pitch in05:42
BenCI could give you a list of ones, but I think it's best they speak for themselves :)05:42
zulheh...actually im talking to quintela right now05:43
BenCthat's the end of my list...any additional topics anyone wanted to bring up05:43
zulhe is the redhat xen kernel maintainer05:43
zdzichuBGwhen feisty kernel update is planned?05:44
BenCgood question05:44
BenCpkl_: how's feisty looking for an upload?05:44
BenCpkl_: could you send the current output of "debian/rules printchanges" to kernel-team for review?05:44
pkl_good, I just need to get someone to test the latest patch tifm driver05:45
Keybukkylem: we win05:45
pkl_yeah, there's mostly security and sparc changes.05:45
BenCcould probably do a i386 -generic build for the folks on the tifm bug report05:45
zdzichuBGpkl_: thinkpad sound after suspend bug?05:45
BenCpkl_: did the kvm changes in latest git get reverted to match the released kernel?05:46
BenCzdzichuBG: is there a patch?05:46
pkl_BenC: yes05:46
zdzichuBGBenC: yes, and testes kernels: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.20/+bug/8089305:46
BenCpkl_: ok, do you know if current feisty git has an ABI change or not?05:46
pkl_yes, ABI bumped05:47
BenCzdzichuBG: since you're interested, can you post the patch to kernel-team@, and CC Phillip Lougher <phillip.lougher@ubuntu.com>?05:47
pkl_one of the security patches, can't remember which one off-hand05:47
BenCpkl_: Ok...let's get the tifm thing tested asap, get an upload ready, and we'll do some builds for a first round of testing with distro folks05:48
zdzichuBGBenC: will do05:48
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BenCzdzichuBG: it wont make this upload, but we'll see about queuing it up for next one, or -updates05:49
pkl_I was looking into a Unionfs bug, but is not urgent.05:49
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BenCAny other issues to speak of?05:50
pkl_this indirectly affects whether we go for Unionfs 2.x or Unionfs 1.x in Gutsy.05:50
BenCOk, thanks everyone05:51
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=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-kernel:BenC] : Ubuntu kernel development discussion ONLY | Kernel Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam | Latest kernel upload: 2.6.22-3.9 | Latest news: -rt and -xen kernels removed, failures in patch. Linux-meta coming today.
Keybukoops, sorry for interrupting the meting there05:54
BenCKeybuk: np, we had to move from #ubuntu-meeting because CC meeting ran long05:54
maks_BenC i've some initramfs-tools fixes that might be interesting to sync05:54
maks_i'll ping you once 0.88 is fine in sid05:55
BenCmaks_: ok05:55
BenCpkl_: if you could look at the unionfs I have in linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.22, and let me know if it's suitable for at least our livecd, I'd appreciate it05:56
BenCit's 1.x05:57
KeybukBenC: so, the good news is, remember we talked about the whole ide spin down thing?05:57
Keybukwell, the ide subsystem is right by default - we can drop the scary ioctl shit from /sbin/reboot05:57
BenCKeybuk: yeah, I read the backlog with kyle05:57
Keybukand the libata subsystem is in the process of being fixed; and it turns out we're getting it fixed better than the patch in 22-rc105:57
BenCso 2.6.22 will be good?05:57
Keybukcurrently there's an odd compat_shutdown patch in there, which requires us to update shutdown, blah blah blah05:58
Keybukall this to not break one or two distros that tried to shutdown libata stuff in /sbin/halt/reboot05:58
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Keybukso the author is reworking the patch to favour distros like us by default that never broke things in the first place05:58
Keybukyup, looks like 22 will be sweet05:58
Keybukour /sbin/reboot can be a wrapper around reboot() :p05:58
BenCnice, I can mark the "my hd makes a horrid noise on shutdown" fixed in gutsy05:59
Keybukit makes a nice "drive head thunking against the side of the can" noise? :p05:59
BenCyeah, some reporters even claim it flicks their laptops off the table ;)06:00
KeybukI suspect they may be exaggerating a little06:06
Keybukfor my next mission, I will attempt to find out whether sync() is needed or not <g>06:12
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henorandom question: How many modules do we ship and how many of those are not in Linus' tree?06:20
mjg59Many, lots06:20
heno10, 50, 100?06:20
BenCheno: for x86, stock kernel is about 1900 modules06:20
mjg59heno: find /lib/modules/`uname -r`/kernel | wc06:20
mjg59will give you the total number06:20
mjg59find /lib/modules/`uname-r`/kernel/ubuntu | wc06:20
henook, thanks06:20
BenCheno: we provide about 2006:20
mjg59will give you the ubuntu specific count06:21
BenC-type f might be a good idea there06:21
BenClots of directories :)06:21
mjg59Oh, yeah06:21
smurfor even "-name \*.ko"06:21
mjg59BenC: I still make it 80 or so that we provide06:21
heno(I'm having a discussion about the removal of speakup on a list)06:21
mjg59Though several of those are conceptually linked06:21
mjg59Oh, not as many in gutsy06:22
BenCspeakup is a good chunk there06:22
mjg59(so far)06:22
henoany idea how many of those are  from far outside the most common trees?06:22
heno(Linus and 2-3 others)06:23
BenCheno: a good chunk for modules we provided in feisty wont show up in gutsy because they are either obsolete, or crap06:24
BenCa lot of the wireless modules we provided in feisty we're to gain mac80211 features06:24
henoright, so it's a common life cycle for good features to actually go into mainline eventually06:25
BenCoh, definitely06:25
BenCthere's a lot of overhead in maintaining those out-of-tree06:25
henoAre they often pushed in by us, or more often by other kernel folks?06:25
mjg59Other people, usually06:26
mjg59And there's some stuff we ship that's never going mainline in its current form06:26
BenCvery rarely by us, where us is Ubuntu06:26
mjg59Like that gspca or whatever webcam monstrosity06:26
BenCright, and ndiswrapper06:26
henoright, I see the pattern, thanks06:26
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isidorosorry guys... help I can't mount my usb NTFS disk. I installed ntfs-config but a gnome pop up says mount_point cannot contain the following characters, newline G_DIR_SEPARATOR (usually /)06:30
BenCisidoro: sounds like your NTFS partitions has '/' in it's label name06:31
BenCrelabel it06:31
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=== Keybuk wonders what happens if you don't sync() before reboot()
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KeybukI can't see any explicit call for that in the kernel code yet06:39
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isidor1BenC: can I force in some way the mount via shell??06:40
BenCisidor1: sure, use the mount command :)06:40
isidor1BenC: can you post it form me?06:41
BenCmount /dev/XXX /mnt06:41
BenCXXX all depends on what device it is06:41
isidor1sudo mount /dev/sdb1 /home/usbdisk06:42
isidor1says it not exsist06:42
isidor1impossibile trovare /dev/sdc in /etc/fstab o /etc/mtab06:44
isidor1impossibile find06:45
isidor1dmesg says sd 3:0:0:0: Attached scsi generic sg4 type 006:45
Keybuk...bad things; important lesson learned06:46
isidor1what can I do???06:47
mjg59isidor1: #ubuntu is a much better place to ask this06:47
mjg59This isn't a support channel06:47
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isidoroguys fixed!07:04
isidorogoogle is really a great friend07:05
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zulBenC: I got a vanilla 2.6.21 booting with xen-3.1 ill start merging in 2.6.22-rc1 tonight08:44
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=== BenC uploads pain and suffering
BenCI mean linux-meta08:47
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=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-kernel:BenC] : Ubuntu kernel development discussion ONLY | Kernel Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam | Latest kernel upload: 2.6.22-3.9 | Latest news: -rt and -xen kernels removed, failures in patch | linux-meta uploaded for gutsy 2.6.22 kernels.
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SpecWhat's the ETA for fixing a bug like this: BUG #9090209:32
Specoh, ubugtu isn't here, well, that bug is just a wrong version of firmware bug and it's basically fixed, is there anything i can do to speed along the fix?09:33
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defendguinBenC, you got a moment?11:07
BenCdefendguin: sure11:07
defendguincould you look at this bug someone submitted https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.20/+bug/11431211:08
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defendguinI have this laptop and obviously i'm concerned but i have been using feisty since herd 3 and i have not noticed any fan or overheating issues11:09
BenCthe bug report needs dmesg, and output from cat /proc/acpi/thermal_zone/*/temperature11:11
BenCuntil then it's just hand waving11:11
defendguinwould you like me to note that in the ticket?11:12
BenCyes, please11:12
defendguinThanks Ben11:15
defendguinthis guy also reported his thinkpad was over heating11:16
defendguinmaybe he just needs to turn on the AC11:16
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BenCor find a better place than his stove to work from11:19
defendguinoh nevermind i guess he just posted to the end of a different ticket the same issue11:20
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