=== Fujitsu wards off the impending xmms doom.
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luisbganyone around?12:52
=== poningru hugs \sh_away
poningruwine just allowed me to have my work box be entirely ubuntu12:53
poningruand hence raided up the wazzooo12:53
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joejaxxLaserJock: hello :)12:55
luisbghey LaserJock 12:55
LaserJockhi guys12:55
ScottKHeya LaserJock12:55
luisbghey jordan, got a question, do you know why xmms isn't in universe?12:56
crimsunluisbg: keescook just sent an email to -devel about that.12:56
LaserJockhi crimsun 12:56
LaserJockhi ScottK 12:56
crimsunluisbg: essentially, there are two source packages that build-depend on a package provided by xmms source.12:57
=== keescook nods
luisbgcrimsun, yeap, you replied just after me ;)12:57
luisbgcrimsun, aha12:57
crimsunoh excellent, evolution now refuses to start after composing that reply.12:57
keescookthe two items I sent in that email, "flac" and "kdeutils" are both in main, so their build-deps must be too12:57
=== crimsun hugs gutsy
luisbgcrimsun, lol12:58
luisbgkeescook, wanna take charge of pushing xmms to universe?12:58
crimsunI don't know if even elmo is still using xmms.12:58
keescookluisbg: yeah, I've actually got the flac and kdeutils changes ready to upload, but I wanted to make sure I wasn't being dumb.  :)12:58
crimsunlast I checked, he was basically the only person on staff using it, but I could have been smoking crack.12:59
luisbgcrimsun, I use xmms01:00
luisbgand have a reason for it01:00
LaserJockman, I have a lot of email to catch up on :(01:00
crimsunluisbg: being?01:00
luisbgcrimsun, rythmbox and exaile are great to listen to great databases of cd's, but xmms does a better trick to just listen to a few singles01:00
crimsunluisbg: you could use audacious01:01
crimsunluisbg: I use mplayer-nox for that, but YMMV.01:01
luisbgI usually listen to my singles in xmms, and test the downloaded music (yeah I know, but in spain is legal) to check if it sounds good there01:01
crimsunerr, mplayer-nogui01:01
keescookluisbg: yeah, I still using xmms too.  I'm mostly worried about xmms users that listen to flac files, as my changes would break them.01:01
LaserJockI use totem for single songs :/01:01
luisbgLaserJock, you are an adventurous guy01:02
LaserJockit works01:02
luisbgit does work but it's kinda heavy for that task01:02
crimsunkeescook: one could always split out xmms-flac into a separate source package.01:02
LaserJockluisbg:  well, it's installed by default01:03
luisbgLaserJock, true01:03
crimsunkeescook: build-dep on flac source in it and build the plugin.  I think that's why xen stuff does.01:03
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crimsunwell, at least  /did/  back in feisty.01:03
Amaranthis there a way in a .install file to say "every file from this dir except foo"?01:04
keescookcrimsun: oh! what would that look like?  (er, rather, would that have to go through source NEW, and it would share the flac orig.tar.gz?)01:04
LamegoAmaranth, you could use dh_install -X01:04
Lamegodh_install -Xfile source dest01:05
crimsunkeescook: yes, it'd have to go through source NEW, but you wouldn't have to bundle flac's orig.tar.gz in it.  You'd use something similar to what feisty's xen stuff in universe does with linux-*)01:05
AmaranthLamego: I don't think that'll work01:05
Lamegowhy not ?01:05
luisbggotta go guys!01:06
AmaranthLamego: Well the package I'm poking only calls dh_install once...01:06
Lamegoah :(01:06
Lamegoyou could keep that particular dir out of the .install01:06
Lamegoand call it on debian/rules01:06
Amaranthi was hoping glob would do some magic01:06
Amaranthbut that works too01:06
orion2012I keep making a comment on REVU and then refreshing the page, forgetting to clear the GET data... Sorry for spamming the list.01:07
AmaranthLamego: what i'm really trying to do is say "install everything but foo in -bar package and put foo in -foo package"01:08
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crimsundebian/-foo.install with dh_install -p-bar -Xfoo  in debian/rules ?01:10
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nixternalwo0t! just uploaded krename into Debian's kde-extras!!01:10
nixternalStevenK: on our way now. I will get the package updated in Debian, and then just request a synch :)01:11
LaserJockhi nixternal 01:23
LaserJocklong time, no see01:23
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joejaxxhello keescook ! :)01:56
keescookhiya joejaxx !  You made it home okay, I see?  :)01:57
joejaxxyeap :)01:57
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superm1hey keescook 02:03
superm1i just got back in an hr or so ago02:03
superm1i heard you ponged02:03
keescooksuperm1: :)  yeah, I'm back in the right timezone again.  :)02:05
superm1ah vg. how did UDS go?02:06
DarkSun88When I make the debdiff bitween old.dsc and new.dsc of package, the entry debian/control and the the changes there aren't.02:09
DarkSun88I just edited the changes in debian/control and I just compiled it, but there aren't the changes of debian/control in debdiff.02:11
crimsunDarkSun88: what source package?02:12
DarkSun88I just tried with Colorblind and Xgalag02:13
crimsuncan you post your modified source package?02:14
DarkSun88diff.gz or debdiff?02:15
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DarkSun88crimsun: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/20894/02:17
racarr /win goto 1202:17
DarkSun88This is the debdiff of package02:17
crimsunthat debdiff doesn't contain any changes to files other than debian/changelog02:18
crimsundid you actually change the merged source package?02:19
DarkSun88This is the problem :)02:19
crimsunif you ran debdiff, there are no changes, which means you either didn't debdiff the correct source packages, or you didn't actually apply the changes to the correct source dir.02:20
DarkSun88I just applied the changes to debian/control of Debian02:20
crimsunI'll just walk through the merge process with you.02:21
crimsunfirst, start with pristine source packages from gutsy and sid02:21
crimsun(using colorblind)02:22
crimsunnow, are you using MoM or DaD or manual?02:23
crimsunok, so I presume you're going to fakesync then apply the changelog diff?02:23
DarkSun88crimsun: I just compiled it and it's ok, all right.02:25
crimsunok, so you straightened it out?02:26
DarkSun88I don't understand02:27
crimsunDarkSun88: I interpreted your statement above as "everything's ok"02:27
DarkSun88The merge it's ok, the problem is the mistake entries in debdiff of debian/control.02:29
crimsunyou don't need them, because it's a fakesync.02:29
crimsunthe only difference between the Ubuntu and Debian source packages will be debian/changelog entries.02:30
crimsunthat doesn't require you to apply DebianMaintainerField02:30
DarkSun88So, it is not merge?02:31
crimsunno, it's not a merge.  It's called a fakesync.02:31
crimsuntechnically you will be apply Debian's diff.gz directly to a pristine, extracted Ubuntu orig.tar.gz02:31
crimsunapplying ^02:31
crimsunhi ajmitch 02:31
DarkSun88ajmitch: Hi02:32
DarkSun88crimsun: Ok, but Xgalaga package? It's a merge.02:32
LaserJockhi ajmitch 02:32
DarkSun88crimsun: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/20899/02:32
DarkSun88This is debdiff of package.02:33
crimsunDarkSun88: correct, so you'll need to adhere to DebianMaintainerField, update debian/changelog, then respin the debdiff.02:34
DarkSun88The debian/changelog it's ok.02:36
crimsunno it's not.  You need to explicitly state that you changed debian/control to adhere to DebianMaintainerField.02:36
DarkSun88I have to remove "    - Update maintainer in field debian/control"02:36
crimsunoh, you're talking about colorblind now?02:37
crimsunoh, no, that's fine.02:37
crimsunyou can leave that alone.02:37
crimsunI scan for explicit filenames, so I overlooked it.  Sorry.02:37
crimsunyou do need to fix debian/control, though.02:38
DarkSun88Do you see debian/control of Xgalaga?02:39
crimsunright, but note it's not in the Debian source package.02:40
crimsunthus, when you debdiff against sid's package, you must have that hunk in the debdiff02:40
DarkSun88Looking it02:42
DarkSun88The changes are in debian/control of Sid02:42
crimsunthey absolutely are not.02:43
crimsunwell, let me check -4302:43
crimsun-42 definitely doesn't02:43
crimsunnope, definitely not in -4302:44
crimsun+Maintainer: Joey Hess <joeyh@debian.org>02:44
DarkSun88I just used mdt to take source package of Xgalaga from Sid02:46
crimsunjust look at the actual source package from Sid or incoming02:47
DarkSun88packages.debian.org has -4202:49
azeempackages.d.o is always outdated by a day or so02:49
crimsunuse PTS to read the ACCEPT, then check the appropriate place.02:50
crimsunin this case, -43 was accepted after dinstall, so you need to look in incoming02:50
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DarkSun88crimsun: I try to make the debdiff bitween -43 and 43ubuntu1.02:59
crimsunDarkSun88: ok.03:00
DarkSun88crimsun: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/20910/03:02
DarkSun88crimsun: Please, check it03:02
DarkSun88It's mistake.03:03
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crimsunright, missing the debian/rules hunk03:07
DarkSun88Right. :)03:07
DarkSun88Check it now03:07
crimsunyep, looks sane.03:08
DarkSun88Upload the debdiff in LP?03:08
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crimsundo you have a bug #?03:11
crimsunI'll upload it now since I've already looked.03:11
DarkSun88No, I open it03:12
crimsundon't bother now :)03:12
crimsunbut in the future, yes, please open an LP bug and attach the debdiff03:12
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crimsun(you should have received the accept.)03:16
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crimsunso -03:31
crimsunanyone want to trawl through https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-universe-sponsors/+subscribedbugs with me?03:31
=== TheMuso is updating his chroots/pbuilders, and will join crimsun.
TheMusocrimsun: You starting anywhere in particular?03:34
crimsunI'll start from 76-150 (last page) and work backword, so I'm starting with the last one listed03:34
crimsunbackward ^03:35
TheMusoooo lovely.03:36
TheMusoA diff embedded in a bug report.03:36
TheMusothis is going to be fun.03:36
=== TheMuso thinks we shouldn't recommend the use of requestsponsor any more, until attachments can be done.
TheMusoLuckily, I have the email. I'll scrape from that.03:37
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leonelcrimsun: TheMuso ScottK ..  Accepted:03:42
leonel OK: squirrelmail_1.4.9a-1ubuntu0.1.dsc03:42
leonel     -> Component: universe Section: web03:42
leonel OK: squirrelmail_1.4.9a-1ubuntu0.1.diff.gz03:42
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leonel \o/  Whooo hoo !!  03:42
leonelthanks ...03:42
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VoXjust wondering if/when support for the Logitech G15 LCD keyboard is going to be included?03:44
nixternalLaserJock: wasabi homer!03:45
LaserJockwatchin' the simpsons, trying to catch up on email03:46
LathiatVoX: are there any open source tools for it?03:47
=== TheMuso does 114043
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Lathiat(just curious I wasn't going  to buy one cus I didn't think itd work on linux)03:47
VoXLathiat: http://g15daemon.sourceforge.net/03:48
VoXi've been using it for about a year or so03:48
Lathiati want one now :P03:48
VoXthe basic keyboard and volume control work natively03:48
VoXbut the extra keys and lcd require g15daemon03:48
VoXjust figured it's something that would be an awesome add-on for ubuntu03:49
hendrixskihey, another newbie question... do most MOTU package for a favorite language, or is it common for one to package apps in several languages? lke java AND python versus... just C++???03:49
TheMusohendrixski: We package whatever needs packaging, regardless of language.03:49
hendrixskiTheMuso, that's hardcore ... does packaging differ much between languages?03:50
TheMusohendrixski: No.03:50
VoXLathiat: if i was smart enough, i'd try to create a package for submission03:51
jmgVoX: you are smart enough03:51
leonelVoX: go for it 03:53
VoXim not sure how to work out dependancies03:53
hendrixskiTheMuso, that's good news.  so if I just wrote my first hello world program in python, I'd be able to look to the C++ hello world example on the repo's?03:53
TheMusohendrixski: Unfortunately, python is a special case. Depends on how big and advanced the python program is.03:54
hendrixskiTheMuso, oh.  I was reading over the debian python policy earlier, and couldn't make heads or tails of it.. that may explain why...  What makes it a special case?03:56
TheMusohendrixski: Exactly what you pointed out. The python policy.03:56
TheMusoAs far as I understand things anyway.03:56
hendrixskioh.  lol03:56
ScottKleonel: No, Thank you for contributing.03:58
hendrixskiTheMuso, I heard on lugradio that Ubuntu is really pushing for more development in python.  They didn't say why.03:58
leonelScottK:  no ??03:59
ScottKleonel: How are the Dapper/Edgy updates coming?03:59
TheMusoPython has been a popular choice ever since Ubuntu'03:59
TheMusoPython has been a popular choice ever since Ubuntu's fir strelease.03:59
ScottKleonel: No, you don't have to thank me.  I thank you for contributing.03:59
leonelScottK: the snowball is a little  big but  working 03:59
ScottKleonel: Earlier today I warned keescook to expect bigger changes for Dapper/Edgy becase of the other open issues.03:59
leonelScottK: yes  I need to thank all the help from all of you     really   thanks04:00
persiahendrixski: python is considered the preferred language for new components of Ubuntu, but contributions in any language are welcome, and there is no directive to port existing working applications to python.04:00
leonelScottK:  yes  dapper  is  a little big  bug  the little time I had  to work this weekend  and today    was for edgy  04:00
ScottKleonel: You're welcome.  I lot of people helped me when I first showed up here.  I'm glad to pay it forward.04:00
leonelScottK:   I'm  training   for  dapper  :)  04:00
hendrixskipersia, ah.  So it's suggested for use prototyping?04:00
leonelbut the first  step was done04:01
ScottKYes.  Thanks to you.04:01
leonelnow   the  bug report  who closes it ?04:01
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leoneli mean  for  feisty only 04:01
ScottKleonel: Once the Feisty package is built for all archs it needs to build for, you mark it fix released for the Feisty task.04:02
kdub432_hey guys, if i'm interested in helping out the repos, how do i get involved? 04:02
ScottKkdub432_: Show up here and start working.04:02
leonelScottK:  ok  04:02
ScottKkdub432_: Bug fixing Universe packages is a great way to get involved.04:02
TheMusokdub432_: You read the wiki pages? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU04:03
leonelkdub432_: yes  here are  great  people  to help  you get the work done 04:03
TheMuso!packagingguide | kdub432_ 04:03
ubotukdub432_: The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources - See also !backports04:03
kdub432_not yet... i'm going to now....04:03
kdub432_alright thanks!04:03
hendrixskipersia, TheMuso,  (if my questions aren't getting annoying yet).. is it because of preferred language status that it has it's own python policy?04:03
TheMusohendrixski: No, its because there needs to be a way to handle several versions of python on one system.04:04
TheMusoOne can have 2,4 and 2.5 on the same system, and the package needs to be installed/built to work with them both.04:04
ScottKThe Python policy comes from Debian and it's not particularly preferred there.04:04
ScottKleonel: It's built so you can mark it fix released: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/squirrelmail/2:1.4.9a-1ubuntu0.104:05
hendrixskiTheMuso, ah.  OK, so the same sorts of things with versions don't happen in other languages, right?  like Java, it's always in the latest version04:06
TheMusohendrixski: Can't comment on java.04:06
ScottKIIRC, Perl has a policy too, for similar reasons.04:07
hendrixskiScottK, I C04:08
TheMusopersia: Is there a reason why the hydrogen FTBFS bug is still open?04:08
TheMusopersia: Marked as in progress currently.04:08
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hendrixskiScottK, does a separate debian policy also imply separate packaging tools?  for example, I heard there used to be a dh_python, but it's depricated04:08
TheMusoI saw your comment about it being successfully built.04:09
ScottKhendrixski: The best way is to pick an example package and look at it.04:09
ScottKIf you are packaging something that properly uses Python distutils, for example, making a Debian package is dead simple.  See the pyyaml source package for an example of that.04:10
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hendrixskiScottK, right, I saw the distutils when I was looking at democracyplayers debian/rules04:12
ScottKhendrixski: IME (which is not huge) every language has it's subtleties that impact how it's packaged to some degree, but I know no C at all, but do packaging related work on C/C++ packcages all the time.04:13
ScottKhendrixski: For Python, distutils is the standard way to package stuff and so the Debian specific tools naturally leverage off of that.04:13
hendrixskiScottK, cool.  That's very inspiring..... Here I was thinking I'd have to learn a lot of programming languages :)04:14
ScottKKnowing some shell scripting is very helpful.  If you don't now, you'll pick it up.04:14
hendrixskithe shell scripting is for writing debian/rules files right?04:16
ScottKThe good news is that here people are very open to people with no experience that want to learn and help out.04:16
ScottKhendrixski: Sometimes.  It comes up for me more with dealing with init scripts and such (but I do little GUI related packaging, most of my stuff is server related).04:16
crimsunWe have sharp, pointy teeth, however.  And new blood tastes  /good/  .04:17
=== hendrixski hides from crimsun
crimsunDon't worry, I'm new, too.04:18
ScottKHe also lies.04:18
crimsunHave I mentioned that people love blowing my cover?04:18
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TheMusocrimsun: WHere are you up to?04:19
=== TheMuso is just eyeballing the dmraid bug.
hendrixskiScottK, the init scripts what exactly, if it's not too dumb of a question?  (is coming from a java plugin developer on windows background)04:20
hendrixskioops, that came out wrong04:20
=== hendrixski is coming from a java plugin developer on windows background
ScottKhendrixski: For stuff that's automatically started by the system and runs all the time.04:20
ScottKhendrixski: Look in etc/init.d for examples on your system.04:21
hendrixskiScottK, like daemons?04:21
=== ajmitch wonders if he should go & get a decent amount of caffeine
hendrixskiScottK, ooh.. so if I wanted my application on my system to start up automatically, I write a script for it in /etc/init.d ?04:22
hendrixskiassuming I learn shell scripting04:22
ScottKIt's that or a decent amount of alcohol (the plan I'm currently on) and assuming you're back in Australia, caffeine is probably a better plan.04:22
TheMusohendrixski: Theres a little more to it than that.04:22
hendrixskiTheMuso, :-( aaawwww   had my hopes up for a second04:23
TheMusoYou have to then tell the system to run the script at startup04:23
TheMusoIt helps to know how Ubuntu starts up.04:23
jmgand it changed with upstart right?04:24
hendrixskiTheMuso, is there a good guide about how that works? 04:24
hendrixskihow ubuntu starts up that is04:24
TheMusohendrixski: Not that I know of.04:24
ScottKjmg: Yes and no, you can still use sys v init's too.04:24
hendrixskiit's not too late at night to ask for a 3 or 4 line crash course about it, is it?04:25
=== hendrixski is in NY, but doesn't know if it's getting late for TheMuso as well
TheMusohendrixski: No. Its actually the middle of the day where I am.04:25
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TheMusohendrixski: Linux uses what are known as runlevels. Different runlevels start and stop different programs, according to what has been set.04:26
TheMusoBasically, there are directories in /etc that hold symbolic links to the /etc/init.d scripts to start/stop them, depending on what runleve is chosen.04:27
TheMusohendrixski: Have a look in /etc/rc2.d for example. Thats runlevel 2, and the links in there, point to what needs to be started.04:27
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crimsunTheMuso: I'm on 11427704:27
TheMusoIn the future, at least for Ubuntu, this is all likely to chance hwever.04:27
crimsunand this wifi connection is horrible04:28
hendrixskiTheMuso, I see a few rc# folder in /etc/   so each of those is a run level?04:28
ranfbug #11427704:28
ubotuLaunchpad bug 114277 in kamefu "[Sync Request]  sync kamefu 0.1.1 from Debian unstable" [Undecided,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/11427704:28
ajmitchcrimsun: so are there any merges left for us slow people to look at? 04:29
crimsunajmitch: tons04:29
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crimsunajmitch: I'm working from 150 backward (the last page of u-u-s subscribed bugs)04:30
=== TheMuso goes on an lsr package update break.
hendrixskiTheMuso, oooh, and there's a readme in each rc# folder ...04:32
hendrixskioh.... but they're all the same readme :-(04:32
ScottKhendrixski: Run levels is a topic that Google has a lot to say about, FYI.04:33
hendrixskiScottK, good call04:33
=== hendrixski jots down a note to look up run levels
hendrixskiScottK, sorry, didn't mean to spam with questions.  Just it's all so new and interesting.  :-)04:35
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ScottKhendrixski: Not a problem at all.  It was just a point of information.04:35
ScottKRun levels is something that's pretty common across Linux distros.04:35
ScottKhendrixski: If you are a Java person, then a good way to get started is find bugs reported against programs written in Java, figure out how to fix them, and then ask help here on packaging the fix.04:37
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ranfWhat do I do with this: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5131  File a sync bug and archive?04:38
hendrixskiScottK, Ok.  I can find those bugs reported in launchpad. right?  04:39
ScottKhendrixski: Yes.04:39
ScottKranf: Don't think you need the sync bug.  Doesn't it arrive automagically?04:40
=== hendrixski jots down another thing onto the TODO list
TheMusoScottK: If it doesn't have ubuntu in the version, yes it should.04:40
ScottKTheMuso: Thanks.04:41
ranfScottK, if I knew I hadn't asked :-)04:41
=== ScottK goes back to writing actual code.
=== hendrixski is overwhelmed, and goes to bed
hendrixskithanks ScottK and TheMuso 04:42
ScottKhendrixski: Digest it and come back for more.04:42
hendrixskiScottK, you bet I will 04:43
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=== ScottK is overwhelmed and goes for more Scotch...
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TheMusocrimsun: Oh ok. I'll remember to mark as wishlist in the future.04:49
=== persia suggests unsubscribing U-U-S from bugs that are not yet ready for upload.
TheMusopersia: The bug author may not now this however, unless we explicitly tell them.04:50
TheMusoI'm not sure thats a good idea.04:50
ScottKUnless you are a member of the team, you can't unsubscribe the team.04:52
ajmitchI wonder if we can unsubscribe all those uus bugs that are fixed in ubuntu but not in debian04:52
persiaTheMuso: Perhaps, but I've had a few where the patch was rejected as needing more work, or where someone other than the author excitedly subscribed people before it was ready, and non-UUS (as most UUS bug authors are) cannot unsubscribe.  Perhaps also changing the status field to "Needs Info", and adding a comment such as "Unbsubscribing U-U-S because <reason>.  Please resubscribe when UUS action is again required" would work?04:53
TheMusobbl, lunch.04:53
TheMusopersia: I'd suggest to put it on the agenda of the next MOTU meeting.04:53
TheMusoanyways, lunch.04:53
ajmitchonce we manage to have another meeting04:53
persiaajmitch: I think that is a very good idea.  It makes the UUS workflow a little easier, and the Debian status will update automaticalls as the BTS processes the bug.04:54
ajmitchand they just get in the way at the moment04:54
persiaTheMuso: That's a good idea.  When I believe I can attend an upcoming MOTU meeting, I'll add that to the agenda.04:54
=== ScottK ponders Python boolean logic....
=== ajmitch wonders how long it'll be before persia is MOTU (and ScottK, also)
jmgi imagine not very long04:58
ScottKajmitch: Thanks.  04:59
ajmitchstill waiting for ScottK to apply04:59
LaserJockme too04:59
=== ScottK will apply if MOTUs think he's ready.
ajmitchyay, I can unsubscribe u-u-s from a bunch of these bugs05:00
ajmitchthough there are a few that have open ubuntu tasks05:00
leonelgood night motus  got to go05:01
nixternalanyone know how to get an updated tarball into Debian? i.e., krename? I have uploaded the debian/ directory to pkg-kde debian svn already05:04
ajmitchnixternal: get a willing sponsor, generally someone from that team05:04
nixternalk, need to wait for them all to wake up then05:04
ScottKnixternal: mentors has worked well for me (with the Python Modules Team)05:05
ScottKnixternal: IME it server a purpose roughly equivalent to REVU here.05:05
nixternalahh, OK, I will take a look at that then05:06
persiaDoes anyone happen to have any anecdotal knowledge about how the wxwidgets2.6- original source tarball was created?  Upstream has asked me to test the unicode GECOS against 2.6.4, and I'm having great difficulty.05:06
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ScottKajmitch: PM?05:07
crimsunpersia: Ron rolls tarballs as the spirit moves him.05:07
ajmitchScottK: yes?05:07
persiacrimsun: Ah.  I've been working with Vadim.  Perhaps I need to expand my upstream contacts :)  Thanks.05:08
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nixternalok ScottK, uploaded to mentors ;)05:23
ScottKnixternal: With Debian Python Modules Team, I then mention it on their IRC channel and usually get an upload pretty quickly (that or the DD's argue about if my package is right for a while first).05:24
nixternalroger #debian-qt-kde it is then05:25
ScottKMost recently today in fact.05:25
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ScottKnixternal: After I got my first Python package accepted into Debian via the Python Modules Team, I wrote: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributingToDebian/PythonModulesTeam and linked it from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributingToDebian.  You might want to consider something similar for hte qt-kde team after you are finished...05:33
nixternaloh rock on, most definitely05:34
nixternalexcept the 2nd wiki link is broke ;)05:34
ScottKnixternal: Check and see if your IRC client attached the period at the end of the sentence to the link.  It works here.05:38
nixternalit did05:38
nixternalI was just pokin' fun at ya05:38
nixternalgotta love irssi05:39
ScottKOr not.05:39
nixternalit will grab everything, mixed with yakuake05:39
ajmitchblame your terminal05:39
crimsunit's really because Rich is using Vista.05:39
ajmitchgnome-terminal sensibly stripped the . 05:39
ajmitchah, a traitor05:39
ScottKKonversation strips it just fine too.05:40
nixternaldamn you crimsun!05:41
=== nixternal screenshots to prove you wrong!
nixternalHost 'heavymetal', running Linux 2.6.20-15-server - Cpu0: Pentium III 797 MHz; Up: 4d+10:11; Users: 1; Load: 0.00; Free: [Mem: 7/376 Mio]  [Swap: 831/831 Mio]  [/: 15300/18415 Mio] ; Vpenis: 27.2 cm;05:41
nixternalwell, that doesn't mean anything seeing as I am ssh'd into my server, could be using putty on vista05:42
ajmitchwith a hostname like that, he must be a jono fanboy05:42
nixternalthat is a Sammy Hagar song05:42
nixternalall of my computers are named after a Sammy Hagar song05:42
ajmitchI'm surprised they let jono through airport security, being so metal05:42
nixternalCaboWabo, HeavyMetal, MasTequila, and ShakaDoobie05:43
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ScottKGood night all.05:55
persiagood night ScottK05:56
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persiaBlah!  A client called, and now I can't attend the CC to become a member :(08:07
StevenKpersia: Reschedule the client. :-P08:08
persiaStevenK: Unfortunately, I'm between engagements right now (which is why I have time here), and so should really take the meeting, given that it will result in 100-150 hours of work.08:10
StevenKpersia: Wonderful. :-/08:12
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persiaStevenK: Yeah.  I had hoped to have all of May free, and only needed one more day...08:13
cjsoftuk_Anyone here know much about debugging ncpfs' kernel module?08:13
persiaOh well, next council meeting is in two weeks :)08:13
cjsoftuk_Or am I in the wrong place.08:14
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jmgw00000t! my shipits arrived08:31
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=== Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-motu.log
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=== Topic for #ubuntu-motu: Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Universe/Multiverse Repository Maintainers | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation | Add yourself to http://tinyurl.com/fgpgy to upload to REVU | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO | Let's merge! http://dad.dunnewind.net/universe.php | Want to join MOTU? Try helping out on these: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-dev/+mentoring | Ubuntu Development Summit
=== Topic (#ubuntu-motu): set by Adri2000 at Tue May 8 18:09:35 2007
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ajmitchjmg: congrats, send some down to me08:41
jmgajmitch: i only have 308:42
ajmitchno point me asking then08:42
ajmitchsince I've got 2 08:43
=== StevenK is waiting for his CDs.
=== ajmitch hasn't ordered from shipit yet
ranfIs there some sort of "collectors box"? I only have 4.10 and 5.10. I'd like all ever released.08:46
Flannelranf: http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/08:47
FlannelOh, you mean the shipit ones08:47
=== minghua would like to get a "collector's box" as well :-)
ranfFlannel, yes08:48
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StevenKI have at least one CD from each release since 5.10. But I'm still waiting for 7.0408:48
persiaAre the shipit CDs silkscreened?  If so, does anyone know where to find the images?08:48
dholbachgood morning08:49
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StevenKpersia: How do you tell? :-)08:49
persiaStevenK: Is the CD a dull metallic color, or is there more variation, producing an apparent image?08:50
StevenKpersia: It's a bright red with a white section.08:51
dholbachhey ajmitch08:51
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ajmitchhow's it going?08:51
dholbachgood good - how are you?08:51
ajmitchalright, still slightly tired :)08:52
StevenKpersia: http://www.flickr.com/photos/maciak/187634641/08:52
dholbachme too08:52
persiaStevenK: Then either it's silkscreened, or printed using another system.  Is the image for the red and white pattern available somewhere?08:52
persiaStevenK: Thanks.08:52
=== ajmitch is just heading out to get some dinner now
StevenKajmitch: How were your flights?08:53
=== ajmitch hungry, back in 30 min
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dholbachpersia: it will not be necessary for you to attend a CC meeting to become a member. I just informed the TB of the MC's decision - once you're in ubuntu-dev you'll be a ubuntumember as well09:04
StevenKI think I like this new process better.09:04
=== StevenK had to become a member, contribute more, and then apply for -dev.
dholbachcan somebody explain me, what we had the motumergers team for and if it is still needed?09:05
StevenKdholbach: I can't even recall one.09:06
crimsundholbach: obviated by ubuntu-universe-sponsors.09:07
dholbachI'll ask the launchpad-eros to get it removed09:07
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persiadholbach: Thanks!  That simplifies things :)09:08
crimsunluke and I have been squashing u-u-s tonight09:08
dholbachyou guys are awesome09:08
=== dholbach hugs crimsun and TheMuso
crimsunnah, I just drink coffee and eat jelly beans09:08
TheMusocrimsun: Heh you've done mroe tha me. Got called away too many times.09:08
TheMusoWill probably do more later however.09:08
dholbachI think I'd pay a lot of beers at a conference of choice for somebody who cleans up the 'merging' documentation on the wiki09:09
TheMusoI am no doc writer, but I'll have a look.09:09
dholbachthere's Merging, Merging-And-Syncing, there's MOTU/Merging and maybe some others I forgot09:09
StevenKBut merging and syncing is not MOTU specific.09:10
TheMusoStevenK: Very true.09:11
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dholbachI removed myself from the MOTU/Mentors page09:12
dholbachI get new maily from hopefuls signing up for mentoring daily now09:12
StevenKdholbach: MOTU/Mentors should also be reorganized so that two or more people don't get swamped.09:13
StevenKI should probably attend the next MOTU meeting.09:13
dholbachwe talked about that at UDS09:13
StevenKYes, well. I wasn't there.09:13
dholbachI'll try to organize our thoughts and a write a process proposal09:13
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StevenKdholbach: Will you throw the proposal to the mailing list, or raise it at the next meeting?09:17
dholbachmailing list09:18
dholbachnobody replied on ma motu meeting post09:18
persiaJust FYI, for anyone interested, the current plan is for Lenny to ship with wxwidgets2.8, but neither wxwindows2.4 nor wxwidgets2.6.09:19
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BugMaNhi all09:24
crimsunpersia: did anyone upload 111832?09:24
=== persia looks
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persiacrimsun: Not the newest revision.09:26
persias/est rev/est SRU rev/09:26
lionelStevenK: thanks you rock :)09:28
StevenKlionel: No problem. :-)09:28
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persiacrimsun: Thank you.09:33
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crimsunpersia: are there other issues with http://librarian.launchpad.net/7591902/M35375.wx26.debdiff ?09:44
persiacrimsun: Aside from the fact that I should know better than to use vi to create patches :)  Not really.  I'm corresponding with Ron and Vadim about it, but it works for me, and definitely fixes the problem.  There's no ABI change, and roughtly the same patch has been in Ubuntu 2.8 for a few months (incuding the 7.04 release) without reports of significant breakage.09:46
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=== persia creates a patch with patch and attaches it to the bug.
StevenKpersia: Hopefully, you create one with diff?09:48
crimsunnah, persia's hardcore.09:48
crimsunI think that's why MC said yay to the application.09:49
persiaStevenK: Ah, right, but patch -r can be fun.  In this case, I think I7ll even use debdiff, just to save the effort.09:49
StevenKlionel: libapache-mod-jk has built on everything bar ia64.09:53
lionelhum... strange09:54
StevenKlionel: Where ia64 is pending, not failed. :-)09:54
lionelit built last time on ia6409:54
lionelit is building now09:54
StevenKAh, yes.09:55
TheMusopersia: It will be great to have you with us.09:55
persiaTheMuso: Thanks.09:56
=== StevenK is reminded of, "Join us" a'la zombies.
=== TheMuso also believes ScottK is more than ready for MOTU/
=== ajmitch isn't ready for MOTU at the moment
StevenKTheMuso: What about me, am I ready? :-P09:56
TheMusoajmitch: Lies!09:56
ajmitchTheMuso: I may make some interesting mistakes on packages today09:57
crimsunI don't think I'm ready either, and my membership expires in three days!09:57
TheMusoWell since the two gods of MOTU aren't ready, I'm not ready. :p09:57
TheMusoOr should I say the three gods of MOTU.09:57
ajmitchcrimsun: your core-dev membership doesn't though09:57
ajmitchso you'll be only uploading to main :)09:58
StevenK-core-dev is a member of -dev.09:58
=== ajmitch knows that
persiacrimsun: Patch up.  By the way, this one doesn't apply cleanly either.  Something about it being a native package, I think.09:59
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StevenKHurrah, it built everywhere.10:01
TheMusobbl dinner10:01
StevenKTherefore, I win.10:01
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=== persia congratulates StevenK on another successful game of buildd.
crimsunneat.  I think we just bludgeoned through the u-u-s merge/sync queue.10:03
ajmitchcrimsun: impressive10:04
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persiaWow!  Now it's just bugfixes, pending builds/syncs, and Debian.10:06
ajmitchonly a few of the debian ones are fixed in ubuntu10:08
=== ajmitch got rid of a couple of those earlier
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Hobbseecongratulations, persia!10:09
=== Treenaks wants a newerer kernel, so powertop does usefull things
persiaHobbsee: Thanks, but it's early yet.  I have to wait for TB to become drunk with power and upload everything to meet my selfish goals.10:11
crimsunTreenaks: well, Amit is aboard (kinda), which will be very useful for that.10:12
Treenakscrimsun: cool :)10:12
Hobbseepersia: hehe10:12
crimsunpersia's taking over, since my membership is expiring  :)10:12
Hobbseedream on, crimsun 10:13
persiacrimsun: I can't do that.  I don't understand ALSA.10:13
crimsunthat's ok, no one really does10:13
crimsunoh, right.  Need to send those upstream.10:13
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geserpersia: I'd guess that the aqsis build failures are another incarnation of bug #87077 as it builds fine on a pbuilder (and xmms2 uses also scons)10:21
ubotuLaunchpad bug 87077 in launchpad-buildd "The build of xmms2 fails because of HASH(0x82db558)="" in the environment" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/8707710:21
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persiageser: Thanks for the pointer.  I'll watch that too.  I've had no problems with aqsis locally, and upstream has been pestering me to move to 1.2.0, so I'd be glad to find a solution.10:23
geserpersia: that's only a guess, you would need to upload a version which tells you why it fails (debugging on the buildds)10:24
geserI'm waiting on infinity to fix this bug10:25
persiageser: I'll wait until next week to upload the next version :)  I was thinking of just forcing TRUE for scons TIFF search, as the Build-Depends guarantees it, if all else fails.10:26
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persiaDoes anyone use eCos?  Any opinions on using a CVS snapshot vs. a three year old release?10:33
crimsunit's the beginning of the devel cycle.  Churn is expected.  Live dangerously!10:34
ajmitchthe issues just come when you're using that same cvs snapshot at release time10:34
crimsunit would be wise, I think, to correspond with upstream about an ETA for the next stable release.10:35
persiacrimsun: Right.  OK.  Somehow I have the feeling that my wx24 odyssey will end up with me maintaining CVS snapshots of several orphaned packages...10:35
persiaajmitch: Anything that still depends on wx2.4 is generally not very active upstream.  I don't anticipate any releases prior to gutsy, even if all my patches are accepted upstream.  freqtweak hasn't seen deevlopment activity for a couple years, eCos tracks moving embedded targets, and releases aren't really that useful, and survex has been aorking ont he next version for a while, with progress, but not dates or anything.10:37
ajmitchpersia: wx2.4? ugh, get rid of it :)10:37
persiaajmitch: That's the idea.  nixternal and I have been working on it.  There are still two packages unclaimed.  Want one?10:38
ajmitchwhich ones?10:38
=== ajmitch bets that one of them is already mine
persiaajmitch: newpki-client and ctsim.10:38
ajmitchI *know* there are other packages using wx2.410:39
persiaajmitch: About which one were you thinking?  I may have already claimed it.10:39
ajmitchgnue-designer & gnue-forms10:39
ajmitchg-d has known problems with wx 2.6 still10:39
persiaajmitch: Ah.  I appear to have missed all the python-wxgtk2.4 dependencies when making my list.  Perhaps it's not as short as I thought.10:40
ajmitchthere are few10:40
ajmitchI'm going to strip down & recreate the gnue-* packaging this week anyway10:41
persiaajmitch: Looks like three of them to me: if you take care of gnue-*, that only leaves openrpg (assuming that meta-ul-foo isn't really that relevant at this point).  I'll add them to my tracking page.10:42
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geserpersia: meta-ul is only a meta-package which needs only the deps updated10:46
persiaNow that three people are working on the wx2.4 elimination effort, could someone with wiki skills suggest how I could move the tracking page from my private namespace to the MOTU namespace cleanly?10:46
ajmitchrename the page?10:46
=== ajmitch doesn't do much wiki magic
persiageser: UnitedLinux hasn't released anything since 2003.  I don't think we can update the depends in good faith, as it will no longer represent UL properly.  I'm tempted to drop, although I'll probably wait until they reach unmetdeps.10:47
ajmitchunitedlinux is a bit of a joke, I think10:48
geserpersia: the deps have been updated in the past already to resolve some unmet deps, one change more won't make a difference :)10:49
persiageser: I guess.  I'm more tempted to drop old packages than to keep them around, unless they are useful to someone.10:50
persiaajmitch: Renaming appears to have done the trick.  Thanks.10:50
geserI also thought about to request the removal of meta-ul10:51
Hobbseegeser: the more packages you remove, the less bugs.10:51
Hobbseethis is good.10:51
TreenaksHobbsee: less is more ;_)10:52
persiageser: They appear to currently be your packages.  I'd concur if you wanted to drop, but I won't stop you from keeping them updated if you really want :)10:52
dholbachis DaD fixed now?10:53
dholbachare people still using it?10:53
dholbachdoes it still spit out 0 line diffs?10:53
persiaI like DaD's comment feature - it's really good for encouraging / blocking MOTU-Hopefuls, but have never used the internals - they didn't seem right for the packages I merged.10:55
dholbachI'm really unhappy about this10:56
persiaHobbsee: Whatever happened to MOTU/Transitions?10:56
Hobbseepersia: it got deleted.10:56
Hobbseepersia: were we still using it?10:56
dholbachI'll mail ubuntu-motu about it10:56
persiaHobbsee: Why?  Where are we supposed to track transitions?10:56
Hobbseedidnt know that we actually were.  come to think of it, there's another wiki page somewhere that does too.10:56
Hobbseeno idea where it is, though10:57
Hobbseepersia: based on the fact that it was out of date, and hadnt been modified in a while, i thought we werent using it10:57
persiaI liked that page, as it 1) listed easy stuff to work on, and 2) helped keep track of initiatives.  There hasn't been as many transitions lately as there were in the past, but I'd like to link to MOTU/wx24.Transitin from there.10:57
Hobbseeyou can probably resurrect it, and link to it from the main page, if you like10:58
ajmitchor link to it from MOTU/TODO10:58
persiaajmitch: That's probably a better place, as it consolidates everything, not just transitions.  Thanks.10:59
tepsipakkihas anyone seen Mez lately?10:59
tepsipakkihi, btw10:59
ajmitchhey tepsipakki 11:00
tepsipakkihey ajmitch 11:00
ajmitchtepsipakki: he was online a few days ago11:00
tepsipakkiok, I asked him aboud iFolder11:00
tepsipakkiby mail11:00
tepsipakkiit needs packaging and he has done something about it (and owns ifolder-dev team)11:01
ajmitchyes, and popey has even started looking at it recently11:01
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tepsipakkinovell released 3.6 some time ago, but so far no source available other than opensuse srpm's11:03
ajmitchnot unusual11:04
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popeyi noted a link pop up recently where someone else had packaged it11:06
popeybut not for feisty11:07
tepsipakkipopey: you mean the blog entry?11:07
popeyI think it was on the planet11:07
tepsipakkiyeah, it was for dapper11:07
tepsipakkiand no source for it11:07
ajmitchaha, popey lives11:08
ajmitchso we should expect packages from him Real Soon Now11:08
Hobbseehehe, ish11:08
=== TheMuso returns.
Hobbseeyay, TheMuso!11:12
TheMusoEvening Hobbsee.11:12
ajmitchTheMuso lives also!11:12
=== Hobbsee doesnt live
=== Hobbsee is just a ghost
=== TheMuso ponders... Work on Ubuntu stuff, or other projects...
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ajmitchpopey: we have faith in you11:13
popeymad fool11:13
tepsipakkipopey: have you looked at packaging ifolder et al yet?11:13
=== ajmitch was foolish enough to fly halfway round the world to spend time with people like you & jono
Hobbseesame here11:14
Hobbseethat makes us major fools.11:14
popeya bit yes tepsipakki 11:14
TheMusomeh ubuntu it is.11:14
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TheMusoI need it to be first thing in the morning for one of my other projects.11:14
TheMusoNow... Where to start... :p11:15
Hobbseejust dont sleep11:15
TheMusoActually, I'd better take care of a new espeak package, before I do any univese.11:15
tepsipakkipopey: how about we join the ifolder-dev team, and you put the packaging work as a bzr branch there? I'll take a look at it once I have more time (in a week or so)11:18
popeysure, i will poke mez when i see him11:21
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StevenKTheMuso: Do you need a sponsor?11:39
TheMusoStevenK: Not ready yet. Still testing stuff, and consulting with upstream about some stuff.11:39
TheMusoStevenK: Thanks anyway. I'll just subscribe ums when I report the bug.11:40
StevenKSounds good to me.11:41
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Lutindholbach: we're currently tsting the fix for the 0ubuntuX thing :)11:47
dholbachLutin: it'd be nice if you would have announced that somewhere11:48
dholbachLutin: people were uploading broken packages or are asking syncs that are not appropriate11:48
Lutindholbach: yeah :/. hopefully it should be fixed very soon11:48
dholbachplease announce it widely, so people can get working on fixing their wrong uploads11:49
dholbachup until now I don't see an effort being made to fix them11:49
Lutindholbach: are there many of those packages that have been sync-requested ?11:50
dholbachnobody knows11:50
dholbachbut 6 of my packages were overwritten11:50
dholbachI can deal with that11:50
dholbachbut nobody knows how many broken packages we now have in the archive11:50
tepsipakkire: xmms, doesn't audacious cover all the cases where xmms is useful?11:53
tepsipakkiit's a fork of bmp (which has changed completely since 0.9x)11:54
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\sh<Enverex> \sh, No, it's just the "shitstain" theme of Ubuntu is bad enough. Wine also shouldn't be altered before being distributed.12:07
Loicimbrandon, any news about https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xvidcore/+bug/84705 ?12:08
ubotuLaunchpad bug 84705 in xvidcore "[Feisty]  libxvidcore missing dependency for yasm for i386 arch : more than 3 times slower than in edgy" [Medium,Fix committed]  12:08
Hobbseecrimsun: you know, with persia being a MOTU, we can retire from u-u-s12:11
StevenKSounds about right.12:12
Hobbseeyep, we are.12:13
StevenKTheMuso: The question is, what are you going to do about it? :-P12:13
TheMusoStevenK: Keep on working on the team.12:13
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dothebartraphink: i've uploaded citadel and libical packages to revu, but they didn't show up in the list so far...12:30
raphinklet me see12:31
dothebartplus i wasn't able to do the lost pastword trick yet...12:31
dothebartit was around 23 o clock mesz yesterday.12:32
raphinkdid you add yourself to the ubuntu-universe-contributors gruop?12:32
dothebarti've added myself to the group described on the wiki last week..12:33
raphinkhmm I don't see you there12:33
raphinkoh yes you are here12:34
raphinkyour GPG key is not on LP though12:34
raphinkyou ahve to add it to your account12:34
Adri2000dholbach: I've just replied to your email, I understand that it caused troubles if packages have been overwritten, but IMO "people" who requested/acked theses syncs or uploaded broken merges should be more careful. as I wrote on the mail, DaD creates an empty ubuntu diff for the 0ubuntuX only packages, I guess a MOTU should understand that it's broken.12:34
dothebarthm, i thought i had...12:35
dothebarti did that gpg upload to the key server.12:35
raphinkthat's not enough12:35
raphinkyou have to add your key to your LP account12:35
dothebarthm, ok.12:35
raphinkonce you have done that, I'll have to resync the keyring12:37
raphinkI'll do that when I'm back from lunch 12:37
dothebarthm, i don't have the data over here at work...12:37
dothebarti think i will do that this evening then.12:38
dothebartthough i wasn't able to find any of you after work online ;)12:38
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raphinkdothebart: ok12:42
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HobbseeAdri2000: was it documented that it was broken?12:47
Hobbseeand do we have a list fo MOTU's who ack'd these syncs, to go and yell at?12:47
StevenKI can recall two, of the top of my head.12:48
StevenKOne involved jokosher.12:48
Hobbseei meant the people12:48
StevenKYes, so I'm looking up the bug now.12:48
Adri2000Hobbsee: it's been mentioned here many times, and there is bug #11368812:48
ubotuLaunchpad bug 113688 in dad "0ubuntuX only in the changelog -> broken" [High,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/11368812:48
HobbseeAdri2000: whicih is no good unless you actually follow DAD development, of course12:49
HobbseeAdri2000: would have expected the url of that bug to be posted to the motu ML, once you'd found it12:49
ajmitchthere should be a big <blink> saying "don't use this"12:49
=== StevenK concurs with ajmitch
ajmitchhttp://jonobaconfanclub.co.uk/ <-- good use of <blink>12:50
StevenKHobbsee: The person in question for jokosher is geser.12:50
FujitsuThere's no such thing as a good use of <blink>12:50
HobbseeFujitsu: sure there is12:50
TreenaksFujitsu: there is.12:50
StevenKHobbsee: Bug 11257412:50
ubotuLaunchpad bug 112574 in jokosher "Please sync jokosher 0.2-1.1 from Debian unstable" [Wishlist,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/11257412:50
FujitsuNice photo, thought.12:50
Treenakspopey needs to update that page a bit though12:50
ajmitchTreenaks: agreed12:51
Treenaksinstall wordpress, upload loads of compromising jonopics12:51
=== Fujitsu has personally always checked all of the diffs generated by MoM/DaD, but I guess others don't.
StevenKI also do.12:52
Hobbseemaybe i'm missing something here, but if you discover a major bug in a tool that people are using, it's your responsibilty to fix it, and immediately notify the most suitable mailing lists, etc, that it's broken.12:52
Hobbsee(if you're the upstream author)12:52
joejaxxajmitch: that was hilarious12:52
Hobbseeand saying "people should be more careful" doesnt cut it.12:52
StevenKHobbsee: Sensible.12:52
Hobbseealso, only putting it on irc doesnt cut it either - many people arent watching, particularly if they're at UDS or whatever12:53
Hobbseeirc is *not* a good way to get announcements out to everyone.12:53
joejaxxmailling lists?12:53
Hobbseejoejaxx: motu mailing list would have been a good choice12:53
Hobbseealso ubuntu-devel, ubuntu-devel-discuss12:53
Hobbseeseeing as the original project had been announced on there.12:54
LutinFujitsu mentionned it on the list iirc12:58
FujitsuLutin: I'm not sure I actually ended up sending that to the list :(12:59
joejaxxdoes anyone know the color scheme on MoM?12:59
Hobbseejoejaxx: it's by importance12:59
joejaxxHobbsee: ah ok thanks12:59
Hobbseegot no idea hwo they deduce that, though12:59
HobbseeFujitsu: i'm not sure i saw it, eitehr01:00
LutinFujitsu: eek right, that was a private mail. sigh01:01
StevenKI can't recall seeing anything about it.01:01
FujitsuLutin: Yeah, sorry.01:01
LutinFujitsu: np. I should have been more careful01:01
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geserHobbsee: importance as in Section: field in control01:20
StevenKHrm. I didn't think MoM was ordered by Section.01:21
ajmitchnight all01:22
FujitsuNight ajmitch.01:22
pochugood night01:22
geserFujitsu: I check usually (especially now) the diffs generated by MoM/DaD before ACKing a sync, but I don't remember anymore if MoM was already uptodate when I ACKed the jokosher sync01:26
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Hobbseegeser: ahh01:27
geserHobbsee, StevenK: got the wrong field: it's Priority01:28
gesernot Section01:28
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StevenKgeser: But why not check yourself? I check *every* sync or merge I rubber stamp because I want to be sure that we don't lose changes that have been made for a reason.01:30
geserI guess I got used to the useable patch files generated by MoM01:33
geserand only check the (broken) patch file generated by DaD which contained only changelog delta :(01:34
StevenKEnough that you only rely on it?01:34
gesernot anymore01:34
StevenKEven spending two minutes reading interdiff output from Debian and Ubuntu would have shown you the sync request was a Bad Idea.01:34
StevenKgunzip the two diff.gz's, and interdiff them.01:35
geserI now check the debdiff between the Ubuntu package and the to by synced Debian package01:35
geserfor syncs01:37
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geserare the patches from patches.ubuntu.com reliable?01:38
StevenKI daresay yes.01:38
geserI use them to compare debdiffs for merges (and also check the new changelog entry) if nothing got lost01:38
StevenKSure, but unless you certain they are being updated, don't rely on them.01:39
geserI use them only to see the current Ubuntu delta01:40
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geseror is there a better place to see what exactly was changed in the Ubuntu package?01:41
Hobbseepatches.ubuntu.com seems ogod01:42
Hobbseeas that's what's being sent to debian too01:42
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geserI use the Debian PTS to get the link for the delta01:43
joejaxxGood Morning motu01:47
=== joejaxx forgot to say that
Hobbseehiya joejaxx :P01:48
joejaxxi really need to stop naming directories in my home folder random things01:49
joejaxxexample: asdfblah01:49
lucasjoejaxx: use /tmp01:49
joejaxxlucas: the sad thing is they are not tmp files 01:49
=== Hobbsee uses /devel/current
joejaxxthey are actually files i need01:50
=== Treenaks always has loads of 'blah.txt' files everywhere
joejaxxHobbsee: i should probably do something like that01:50
Treenakssometimes with useful stuff in them :)01:51
Hobbseejoejaxx: which i automatically rm -rf * :P01:51
joejaxxHobbsee: :P01:51
joejaxxthe only thing i have on / that is not standard is cdibuildder01:52
=== Hobbsee has /pbuilder and /devel
joejaxxother than that everything is either is /usr/src or ~/randomlynameddirectorythatiknowwhatitius01:53
geserah, you hash the real dir name?01:54
joejaxxwell not in the sense of a algorithmic hash01:55
joejaxxbut asdfblah is my svn stuff01:55
joejaxxblahblah1 is a chroot of edgy01:55
joejaxxthings like that lol01:55
joejaxxi guess cryptic names01:56
joejaxxbuild is where xserver automatically downloads and builds itself01:57
joejaxxmerges is surprisingly merges01:57
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dholbachAdri2000: of course they should be more careful01:59
dholbachAdri2000: I wasn't blaming you01:59
Lutindholbach: we can't deny we have a responsability in all that crap though02:01
dholbachsure, that's why it would have been nice to have an announce about that02:01
dholbachso people can take care of reverting those changes02:01
FujitsuLutin: The point of having MoM not automagically uploading things is so that people check that everything is sane. Your responsibility is very limited.02:02
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ScottKGood morning all.02:04
joejaxxGood Morning ScottK 02:04
Hobbseehi ScottK 02:05
geserHi ScottK02:06
FujitsuHi ScottK.02:06
pochuheya ScottK 02:06
LutinFujitsu: yep, but as dholbach pointed out, we should have annouced that this particular point was buggy02:07
ScottKIIRC it was discussed here (I was certainly aware of the problem).02:07
FujitsuProbably, but then that's partly my fault.02:07
LutinFujitsu: no02:08
bluekujadholbach: I mean new upstream releases that needs packaging02:10
dholbachbluekuja: so if you want to start a torrent team that takes care of all the bittorrent related packages, I think that's cool02:10
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dholbachand I'm sure you'd find a bunch of testers and helpers02:10
dholbachbluekuja: ah... ok - I don't know02:10
bluekujadholbach, I'll take a look around for them :)02:11
dholbachbluekuja: I didn't touch any bittorrent related packages in a while02:11
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bluekujadholbach, do you have some suggestions to start this project?02:11
dholbachbluekuja: start a team in LP, write a wiki page about your plans, make the team bug contact for the packages you want to take care of and announce it on the lists02:12
dholbachfrom there start to work closely with upstreams02:12
dholbachand all will be good :)02:12
bluekujadholbach: great ! 02:13
bluekujadholbach, gonna start it now :)02:13
dholbachexcellent :)02:13
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bluekujadholbach, thanks for your help, its really appreciated02:14
dholbachno problem02:14
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pochuhi DarkSun88 02:22
DarkSun88pochu joejaxx : Hi :)02:23
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Lutindholbach: fix commited, the issue should be fixed on the next update, starting at 16:00 +020002:29
dholbachLutin: thanks for your work on that02:29
pochuLutin: rock on :)02:29
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Lutinmain will wait a bit longer, anyways no one uses it02:31
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siretartis one month an acceptable timeframe for waiting a submitter to report back from a question, or shall I wait longer?02:43
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joejaxxsiretart: that sounds acceptable02:46
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elkbuntuw00t, photos flickr-ised02:49
Treenakselkbuntu: link?02:49
StevenKelkbuntu: Share/Blog ?02:50
gpocenteksiretart: did we find a agreement about REVU "mass removal"?02:51
gpocenteks/a /an /02:51
Hobbseegpocentek: remove after 1 year or 6 months - dont remember which02:52
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geserStevenK: have you some time to sponsor a gnupg2 merge?02:53
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siretartgpocentek: I didn't hear about it yet, currently I think I'll just 'auto archive' everything older than, let's say, 2 months?02:54
Hobbseesiretart: depends how long there is between new package freeze and release02:55
Hobbseesiretart: id' say auto archive anything not touched in 6 months, delete after 1202:55
=== Hobbsee shrugs
StevenKgeser: Maybe. Do you feel lucky? :-P02:55
siretartHobbsee: sounds good to me as well02:55
StevenKScottK: Not confused any more?02:56
geserStevenK: I've a good feeling about it. bug #11479402:56
ubotuLaunchpad bug 114794 in gnupg2 "[Merge]  Merge gnupg2 2.0.4-1ubuntu1" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/11479402:56
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StevenKAh. gnupg2's source being in main.02:57
ScottKStevenK: No, discovered my service provider switched my DNS servers without bothering to mention it to me...02:57
StevenKScottK: Hah. Nice of them.02:57
StevenKgeser: Shouldn't I just request and ack a sync?02:57
=== StevenK smirks evilly.
gpocenteksiretart: I'm fine with 2 months for auto-archiving, and I'm really really in favour of nucking packages older than 6 months02:58
gpocentekREVU is currently a mess because uploaders don't update their packages IMO02:58
geserStevenK: I've learned my lesson with those bad syncs.02:58
siretartgpocentek: so do I, but as 'nukeing' means 'removing without any change to restore them', I'm hesitating a bit02:59
elkbuntuTreenaks, StevenK http://www.flickr.com/photos/8294638@N02/02:59
StevenKgeser: That remains to be seen, but we'll see.02:59
StevenKelkbuntu: Thanks!02:59
gpocenteksiretart: but what can we do? I've sent a mail a while ago to ask uploaders an update of their package for gutsy, only a few did it03:00
gpocentek(mail on the MOTU ml)03:00
Hobbseegpocentek: siretart if we removed all packages older than 12 months, how many does that leave us with?03:01
gpocentektoo many :p03:01
siretartgpocentek: could you please mail ubuntu-motu@ with your proposal (2 months auto-archive, 6 month autonuke), and let people discuss it, let's say, a week or so?03:01
Hobbseewell, yes, but i'm wondering how many03:01
siretartHobbsee: still more than we can review :/03:02
gpocenteksiretart: sure03:02
Hobbseesiretart: of course, yes, but hwo many?03:02
Hobbseecompared to hwo many we have now03:02
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Hobbseei wonder how many people would be inactive for 6 months, for wahtever reason, then come back to doing what they're doing03:02
siretartHobbsee: I would need to do some statistics about that. if you're interested and familar with SQL, you could just query the postgres on tiber03:02
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Hobbseemy concern is for people who decide to take a release off, due to overwork03:03
Hobbseealthough that doesnt seem to happen as much for non motu's03:03
siretartHobbsee: if they come back to live, I think they'll surely have a backup of their work and ready to just reupload them. REVU is meant as an reviewing aid, not as bazaar for unpublished packages03:03
Hobbseesiretart: that's true03:03
siretartwe have the supermirror (launchpad) for that03:04
siretartgpocentek: thanks! (for writing the email)03:04
Hobbseesiretart: on that basis, 2 months autoarchive and 6 month delete sounds good to me03:05
Hobbseeif they want anything otu for hte next release, it'll need a new upload, for the new release, anyway.03:05
StevenKI agree, even if my opinion might not mean much.03:05
ScottKsiretart: Is it feasible to archive comments and such for longer?03:06
siretartI don't expect serious objections on the mailing list, but I'd like to have everyone contributing and reviewing informed about this before we do that03:06
siretartScottK: are you interested enough in this to contribute code? - then sure!03:06
siretart(no, it isn't really hard, I promise ;)03:06
ScottKREVU is in Python, right?03:07
siretartlook at the last commit to the revu1 trunk, and look how I deleted the last bunch of packages03:07
ScottKHow long would I have to get the code done?03:08
=== ScottK would also have to learn yet another revision control system ....
siretartthe removal doesn't go automatic because of paranoia. the script drops merely uploads (and all related comments) - you would need to provide an alternative to that03:08
ScottKIf it's in Python, I should be able to manage that, just not sure exactly when I could get it done...03:08
siretartif a package gets nuked, the directory is added to a file called 'removals.txt'. I manually remove them after hand reviewing the file03:09
siretartScottK: yes, REVU is all in python03:09
ScottKI guess as long as I procrastinate, it's just comments keep getting lost.03:09
Hobbseeelkbuntu: nice pictures03:09
Hobbseeapart from the pool throwing ones, of course03:09
siretartScottK: I wonder why you care in old comments. Honestly, since I don't see a usecase for that, I find them rather annoying03:10
siretartold comments as in "comments older than 12 months"03:10
ScottKsiretart: I was thinking to have them stored, but not displayed.03:10
=== ScottK is mostly nervous about losing history.
siretartScottK: hm. you could perhaps write some exporter for the comments, which is run just before nuking the package. this way you had them stored somehow03:11
ScottKSomething like that, yes.03:11
siretartwell, great. Just branch from launchpad, and tell me where I can merge your changes from when you have something to share03:12
elkbuntuHobbsee, hehehe03:12
=== Hobbsee thinks they should have thrown elkbuntu in the pool.
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=== ScottK will have to learn some new code management stuff...
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StevenKI managed to avoid them all by being in Sydney.03:14
TheMusoNight folks.03:14
Hobbseehehe, effective03:14
Hobbseehi TheMuso!03:14
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StevenKgeser: Your debdiff looks okay.03:16
StevenKelkbuntu: Opera on Ubuntu at Sydney Airport. Impressive.03:17
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elkbuntuStevenK, one of the terminals was in hard lock at some stupid javascript infested site though03:17
StevenKThat's okay, we'll blame Opera.03:18
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StevenKgeser: Have you considered taking some of the patch to Debian, such as the installdocs change, the debian/copyright change and the description change?03:20
elkbuntuStevenK, i like that mode of thinking03:20
gesernot yet, but might file a bug about it03:20
elkbuntusince it's not open, we cant debug it ;)03:20
StevenKelkbuntu: Exactly!03:21
elkbuntuthe terminals are pretty effectively locked down too... that window was the only way i could get a photo of the ubuntuness03:21
StevenKCouldn't type into the address bar?03:22
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joejaxxwith the C marked files from MoM for a particular package03:22
elkbuntuyeah.. how would that have proved ubuntuness?03:22
joejaxxwhat is that =========?03:22
StevenKelkbuntu: file:///usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/03:22
elkbuntuooh.. never thought to try03:23
elkbuntuthis was the only 5 mins we actually got to touch a working terminal, after the flight was called and everyone else headed to the gate03:23
joejaxxdoes that separate the differences between the two files?03:23
StevenKjoejaxx: It's a conflict seperator.03:23
apacheloggerguys, what to do if tarball is heavily broken (though fixable) but upstream doesn't respond?03:24
joejaxxStevenK: so anything between the arrows and the === is the conflicting stuff i presume03:24
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StevenKjoejaxx: Anything between <<<<< ===== >>>>> , and yes.03:24
joejaxxok that is what i thought i just wanted to make sure03:25
StevenKjoejaxx: Read the REPORT file03:25
joejaxxStevenK: yeap i did03:25
joejaxxi did not know the format though03:25
StevenKThose files marked with 'C ' contain diff3 conflict markers, which can03:25
StevenKbe resolved using the text editor of your choice.03:25
joejaxxi rather ask now than ignorantly proceed03:26
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StevenKjoejaxx: Smart man. :-)03:27
ScottKDoes the changelog entry in LP reflect what will be in debian/changelog for the synched package (particularly the person making the entry)?  As an example, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+source/python-dns/2.3.0-6 and http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/p/python-dns/current/changelog show different people making the change...03:28
geserLP shows only the contents from the .changes file03:29
ScottKgeser: Thanks.03:29
StevenKScottK: Launchpad shows who requested the sync.03:30
geserthe real changelog from the package is the same as in Debian03:30
StevenKWhich was me.03:30
ScottKRight.  Makes sense.03:30
=== ScottK is Debian maintainer for that particular package, so I was a little confused seeing what was in LP.
ScottKNo problem now that I understand it.03:32
StevenKIf you upload -7 before auto-import is turned off, it'll say katie.03:32
ScottKWe'll see how much people break it now that it's been updated.03:32
StevenKFor example, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libpoe-perl/2:0.9989-103:32
StevenKgeser: Sync request for gnupg2 filed.03:35
StevenKgeser: Er, I mean, uploaded. :-)03:36
StevenKI'm done poking fun, too, just so you know.03:36
HobbseeStevenK: for tonight, of course.03:36
StevenKWell, that's implied.03:37
StevenKBesides it's a new day in 20 minutes here.03:37
joejaxxif a bug has a mentor what does that mean for someone who wants to fix it?03:37
pochujoejaxx: that he's willing to help you fixing it (i.e. answering your questions and that)03:37
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Rossimo-workcould I ask a question or two about remastering a feisty ubuntu cd?03:42
staniIf something is added to the Debian MOTU repository, does it automatically becomes available in the Ubuntu Universe?03:42
staniAnd vice versa (Ubuntu -> Debian)?03:42
StevenKDebian has a MOTU repository?03:43
staniDon't they have a universe repository?03:44
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siretartstani: you must be confusing something here03:44
siretartlucas: around?03:45
joejaxxgrr what is that line again? Maintainer: Ubuntu MOTU ......03:45
=== joejaxx goes to look at one of his previous change logs
gpocentekjoejaxx: DebianMaintainerField wiki page ;)03:45
lucassiretart: yes03:45
StevenKMaintainer: Ubuntu MOTU Developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com>03:46
siretartquery please03:46
joejaxxgpocentek: yes 03:46
joejaxxgpocentek: i seriously need to memorize that page03:47
joejaxxi keep forgetting the name of that wiki page03:47
Hobbseejoejaxx: or use the script.  *g*03:47
joejaxxwhat script?03:47
staniOK, I meant the unstable repository of Debian. I'll read the wiki page.03:48
StevenKDid anyone else find it confusing that there is now a piece of software called Lutin and it was discussed at the UDS?03:48
HobbseeLutin: see https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-dev/ubuntu-dev-tools/trunk03:48
LutinStevenK: really ?03:49
StevenKOh, almost.03:49
siretartstani: there us no automated syncing from ubuntu to debian. there is automated syncing from debian to ubuntu for some packages. please read the UbuntuDevelopment wiki page for details03:50
StevenKLu*p*in is the software03:50
LutinStevenK: oh, ok03:50
stanithanks siretart03:52
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joejaxxwill that stinks everyone has taken all the bitsized bugs :P04:10
joejaxxStevenK: care to review i patch i did ?04:11
StevenKjoejaxx: Not really, but only because it's quarter past midnight.04:12
joejaxxoh ok04:12
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joejaxxanyone else? it is quite small04:14
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ScottKjoejaxx: I can't upload it, but I'd take a quick look if you want.04:16
=== ScottK looks
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ScottKBug #11416204:18
ubotuLaunchpad bug 114162 in chuck "chuck doesn't suggest/recommend jackd, but seems to need it to work" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/11416204:18
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StevenKjoejaxx: gutsy, not fesity04:23
StevenKEr, feisty04:23
ScottKjoejaxx: Did you check and make sure that jackd and check actually work together?04:23
ScottKAssuming that it actually works, I think it makes sense.04:24
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dholbachmruiz: thanks for considering helping out with the merges04:29
mruizdholbach: my pleasure!04:29
=== dholbach hugs mruiz
dholbachmruiz: if you need any help - be sure to ask in here - I'm sure somebody can review your changes and help if needed04:30
mruizdholbach: ok. First of all, what I need to have to start? (Ubuntu version, tools, etc)  04:31
dholbachif you don't have gutsy installed, it might make sense to have at least a gutsy chroot04:33
dholbachor a gutsy pbuilder04:33
dholbachso you can test your biuld04:33
mruizdholbach: what's about a gusty VMware image ?04:33
dholbachthat's cool too04:34
dholbachsorry, if I don't reply quickly - I'm currently in a meeting04:34
dholbachbut keep on asking :)04:34
mruizno worries :)04:34
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bmmHi MOTU poeple. Does anybody have time to take a look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5125 while I have the time to fix any problems?05:05
joejaxxryanakca: /win las05:07
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leonelhello motus ..05:25
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ScottKleonel: Hello06:00
leonelScottK: hello !06:00
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leonelScottK: do you know  what's holding the release for the  squirrelmail update for  feisty    I see it  already on  feisty-security  06:01
ScottKleonel: That's where it goes.  The security repository is enabled by default.06:02
ScottKSo it should be released now.06:03
leonelScottK:  even the  edgy and  dapper  are not ready ?06:03
leonelScottK:  perfect06:03
ScottKUniverse is not officially supported, security support is on a best effort basis.06:04
leonelScottK: today I MUST have the edgy  done06:04
leonelScottK: do I upload the edgy debdiff   to the same bug report ?06:04
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ScottKleonel: In fact you can mark the Feisty task on the bug Fix Released since the new package has built.06:06
ScottKleonel: Have you been able to confirm that the same issues exist in Dapper/Edgy?06:06
leonelcottk : even if the  announce is not released  yet ?06:06
leonelScottk : even if the  announce is not released  yet ?06:07
leonelScottK:  yes they are06:07
ScottKleonel: Yes.  Ubuntu doesn't normally do announcements for Universe packages.06:07
leonelScottK: since  the stable squirrelmail  I think only do new releases for security updates   06:08
leonelso  if the  dapper 1.4.6   the changes for  1.4.7  fixes some   1.4.8 someothers   1.4.9  1.4.9a  1.4.10  and 1.4.10a  fix security bugs06:09
ScottKleonel: Do you want to mark Feisty fix released or should I?06:09
leonelwould be nice ...06:09
ScottKleonel: You need to check and only make the changes that related to security problems.  The squirrellmail changelog should tell you enough.06:10
ScottKleonel: Would be nice if I did it?06:10
leonelyes  be  my guest ...06:10
leonelScottK:  yes  I'm checking  the changelog  in the package  and  the security updates issued by squirrelmail06:11
ScottKGreat.  Bug #113725 updated.06:11
ubotuLaunchpad bug 113725 in squirrelmail "Cross site scripting in HTML filter" [High,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/11372506:11
leonelYES !06:12
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leonelthanks  ScottK  06:12
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pochuslomo: around? :)06:17
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leonelScottK: so there's no way that the people that has  squirrelmail installed on feisty knows  that they need to upgrade ?06:25
ScottKleonel: Should just happen06:26
ScottKMaybe keescook would be willing to publish a notice after all the releases are done.  I don't know.06:27
geseras everybody should have -security enabled they get automatically a notify about an update06:30
geserbut afaik there are no USN for universe packages06:30
keescookThere really isn't a mechanism for doing universe announcements.  I did get the publisher fixed so that they would show up on RELEASE-changes mailing list at least06:30
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leonelthanks  geser keescook  06:37
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keescookleonel: thanks for getting the patches tested!  That's the hard part.  :)06:38
leonelfor dapper  is  where my  knees  are shaking  :)06:38
pochudoes anybody have a merge he doesn't want to do? :)06:41
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persiapochu: I'm not going to do k3b, but it's really not easy.07:07
pochupersia: I can try it :)07:08
pochuI'll learn something, I hope07:08
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persiapochu: Good luck.  Just FYI, it's in main, so you'll need some extra review getting it uploaded.07:08
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nixternalthere is another new k3b?07:20
persianixternal: Mom tells me to merge 1.0.1-107:21
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persianixternal: How is plucker?  Will you be able to move to 1.9.0?  Did the patch work?07:24
nixternalI haven't had a chance to mess with it yet07:25
nixternalprobably this weekend I will get a better chance, or maybe even this evening07:25
nixternalfinals week07:25
persianixternal: Sorry then.  I thought you had been.  Let me know if you want any help debugging the wx2.4 -> wx2.6 stuff.07:26
micahcowanDoes anyone here use opie for OTP, or is familiar with it?07:26
micahcowan(Not a support request)07:26
nixternalwill do persia, thanks!07:27
nixternalbeen a while since I messed with opie (familiar frontend correct?)07:28
persiamicahcowan: I've used Opie, but currently have Sharp stock environments on both my devices.  What do you mean by OTP?07:28
micahcowanOpie is an implementation of OTP, formerly known as/modified version of S/KEY.07:29
nixternalI had Opie on my Zaurus, but whoever stole it now has it :)07:29
persiamicahcowan: Ah.  Sorry: I thought you meant Open Palmtop Integrated Environment.07:29
nixternalas did I07:29
micahcowanAha. No, "One-Time Passwords".07:30
=== micahcowan takes note of alternative meaning
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ScottKOne Tim Pad, actually.07:30
micahcowanScottK, that's something else, actually.07:30
micahcowanAnd yes, it sucks that there are two OTPs, both related to security.07:30
micahcowanrfc 228907:30
micahcowanOf course, I'd be somewhat surprised to see a widespread, practical implementation of a one-time pad, considering its practical problems, especially wrt key distribution :/07:32
persiaScottK: "One Time Password"; The user carrys a list of 20 or so passwords, and only the user knows which is the next one.  The password changes for each login.  "One Time Pad": a cypher encryption scheme that is only used once, and so cannot eaily be broken by repeated interceptions.07:32
micahcowans/cannot easily/can never be/. It is the only known form of encryption that can actually be mathematically proven impossible to decipher without the key. :)07:33
persiamicahcowan: Isn't ssh's use of session keys similar in principle to one-time pads?  The key is used for the entire session, but a new key is generated for each session.  Short sessions "ssh -c foo" can be used to reduce the chance of interception.07:34
micahcowanpersia, no. (explanation coming...)07:34
persiamicahcowan: Unfortunately, not all "One Time Pad"s are only used one time.  There is a somewhat famous story of a rotating set of pads that was eventually cracked by British codebrakers in around 1943.07:35
micahcowanA one-time pad /must/ be at least as large in size as the /entire/ communication. Ssh uses a much smaller key, and uses feedback-based encryption to enhance security for that key (which is how all good block ciphers work)07:36
micahcowanpersia, when that happens, it is by definition not a one-time pad.07:36
micahcowanone-time pads are literally 100% fool-proof when the key is kept secret and used only once. It loses almost /all/ reliability if you ever use it a second time.07:36
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persiamicahcowan: Thanks for the explanation.  I've been misusing the term for years.  Also, as far as one-time pads, that's why I've been putting them in quotes :)07:37
micahcowanBecause of its guaranteed security, though, there are literally hundreds to thousands of products that /claim/ to be OTPs, but absolutely are not. Never trust anything that claims to be, because actual implementation is completely impractical, given that the only way to transport the key safely is via "handcuffed briefcase" :)07:38
dothebarthm... i've uploaded a key to launchpad, but its in "pending validation" state...07:38
dothebartit's been that for about a week... 07:38
dothebartwhat else do i have to do?07:38
micahcowanHuh. Yeah, shoulda been synched by now... :)07:38
Hobbseedothebart: is it trying to check yoru email, or something?07:38
micahcowanSo, no one here uses opiepasswd and the like, then? :/  ...it may be hard for me to find someone to confirm my bug.07:39
persiamicahcowan: If you can give me a testcase, I wouldn't mind trying to duplicate it.07:40
dothebartah, i have to open the valitation email with tbird...07:41
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micahcowanpersia, it's bug 61335. A rather minor issue, in which I assert that opieinfo ought to be setuid, so that the user can see his own information, that he had set using opiepasswd (and can in fact check using opiepasswd, in a cumbersome way).07:42
ubotuLaunchpad bug 61335 in opie "opieinfo isn't setuid, whilst opiepasswd is" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/6133507:42
micahcowanThe thing that one-time passwords/ (as opposed to pads) are very nice for, is when shelling in from a computer whose keyboard may be sniffed: the password will not work the next time someone tries to use it. Of course, you still have to trust that, while you're logged in via the untrusted machine, nobody is able to use a mechanism to issue hidden commands while you're logged in, or secretly keep your session open.07:43
dothebartah, done.07:44
leonelis there a command  or how do  I know from the installed  packages  whichones  are from universe ?07:45
micahcowandothebart, cool. :) Gonna become an official ubuntero, then?07:45
dothebartdunno, i wanted to upload citadel.org packages to revu07:46
persialeonel: The hard way is to do something with grep-dctrl, but there's probably an easier way.07:46
dothebartso far they're available at ubuntu.citadel.org/ubuntu07:47
micahcowanHm, I was thinking that dpkg -s said that, but nope.07:47
leonelpersia: what I did was to do a    wget packages.gz from universe  and then  check the  dpkg -l  against de packages.gz07:47
micahcowanOh, of course it does: in the Filename field.07:47
bmmleonel: make a custom filter in synaptic07:47
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bmmwon't allow you to script the result, but you will get a view of them.07:48
micahcowanleonel, you can use the Filename field from any of dpkg -s, dpkg -p, and apt-cache show.07:48
leonelmicahcowan: that's what I'm using  the filename field 07:48
leonelbut from packages.gz07:49
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micahcowandothebart, as long as you have your key uploaded, then if you choose, you could cryptographically sign the CoC, which will mark you as an Ubuntero. It doesn't mean anything other than the fact that you have committed to abide by the CoC. OTOH, if you intend to apply for membership at some point, that's one step out of the way. :)07:50
leonelmicahcowan: with the  Section  from  apt-cache show   07:51
micahcowanleonel, well, but does the Section necessarily indicate main vs universe? For instance, emacs21 gives "editors" as section.07:51
ScottKSection doesn't relate to Main/Universe07:52
dothebartmicahcowan: what do i have to do?07:52
micahcowandothebart, in your launchpad page, there is a "codes of conduct" link in the sidebar. That should lead you through the process.07:53
leonelmicahcowan: right07:54
micahcowanFor the most part, it will change the "Ubuntero:" field on your page from "No" to "Yes". :)07:54
persiamicahcowan: I can certainly replicate it, but I very much don't agree that opieinfo should be setuid root, as this allows any user on the system to collect the current sequence and seed for any other user on the same system, and by using opiepasswd, the attacker could then determine the next password for the subject, and hijack the account.  When the attacker is done, the attacker can reset the account to the old sequence and se07:54
micahcowanpersia, that's actually untrue: try it.07:54
pochupersia: there's a new wx2.8 release :) I think I'll do it first ;)07:55
micahcowanAt least, I /believe/ opieinfo actually checks its calling user before allowing the info.07:55
micahcowanIf I'm wrong, then you're right, it shouldn't be setuid.07:55
micahcowanBut if I'm wrong, opieinfo is almost completely pointless, AFAICT.07:56
persiamicahcowan: I can at least collect the session and seed from other users.  I haven't actually configured libpam-opie, and so haven't tried the attack described above.07:57
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geserdholbach: I've looked a merging/syncing kiwi. It had a comment on DaD, that it can be synced. What about the Replaces: kiwi in python-kiwi. Should it be kept until the next LTS? (the binary is named kiwi in dapper and since edgy it's named python-kiwi)07:59
dholbachgeser: it should probably be kept :-(07:59
geserI've update the comment on DaD08:00
persiamicahcowan: The only purpose I can see for opieinfo is for an administrator to easily create a list of starter passwords (opiekey -n 42 `opieinfo`).  It's too dangerous to be used by users (as currently implemented).08:01
persiaOops: opiekey -n 42 `opieinfo $username`08:01
geserdholbach: it's sort of blocked by the new python-support, it's doesn't depend on it but the egg renaming got removed in the last upload08:01
micahcowanpersia, Yes, you're absolutely right: as nobody, I can get info for micah. So I'll reject, then. Thanks for your help. :)08:02
stanipochu: Which wx2.8 release? Do you mean 2.8.3? In that case, 2.8.4 will come out soon.08:03
persiamicahcowan: Glad to help.  I'm interested in security, if not currently in practice.08:03
dholbachgeser: what does that change? if the egg is removed?08:03
=== micahcowan suddenly noticed he's ubuntu-qa now.
persiapochu: Also, Debian is preparing 2.8 packages, which may well be rather different than ours.  wx2.8 might better be left for later (or may need to be done again).08:04
pochustani: 2.8.3 is already in the archives, 2.8.4 is out08:05
pochupersia: are they finally going to move to 2.8? :)08:05
pochuGood news!08:06
dothebartmicahcowan: done.08:06
persiapochu: The plan is for Lenny to only have 2.8, with 2.4 and 2.6 removed.  I don't know how that will work in practice.08:06
pochupersia: then I think I'll wait for them to package it08:06
pochuif they don't take too long :)08:06
micahcowandothebart: "Ubuntero: Yes"  :)   Congratulations!08:07
geserdholbach: many python package do a "mv versioned_egg.info unversioned_egg.info" in debian/rules. python-support 0.6.4 does it now on its own and packages doing it in debian/rules need to be updated else the FTBFS with the new python-support08:08
dholbachah ok08:09
dholbachthanks geser08:09
dothebartanybody here able to resync the key over?08:10
micahcowanWhat do you mean, resync the key? Have you modified your key?08:12
micahcowanLast time I made a change (adding my @ubuntu.com id), I just needed to export it to the keyserver using gpg, and it was done.08:12
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eolo999Hi ScottK 08:17
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zulmeh... http://www.xyzcomputing.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=105308:20
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micahcowanSlow loading... but I love the isometric graphic at the top :)08:22
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micahcowanzul, your thoughts?08:24
micahcowanDoes "meh" pretty much sum it up? :D08:24
zulill take a wake and see view08:24
zuler...wait and see08:26
micahcowanzul, ditto.08:26
persiazul: micahcowan: Neither of you are going to get lots of links, hits, and attendant google adwords payout with that attitude.  You have to write early and often :)08:28
micahcowanI don't keep an ubuntu-related blog. Nor do I use ad words; at the moment, they tend to consistently promote things that are the exact opposite of what I would desire to promote.08:29
micahcowanWhen I write about ubuntu on my blog, it tends to be "Yay me!" stuff like, "Look at me, I just made member!" :)08:29
micahcowanWhich is why I keep it off of Planet Ubuntu. :08:30
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nixternalI didn't know until someone flooded #ubuntu last week with it08:33
persiamicahcowan: Depends on your client.  WIth most clients you need to send advanced unicode non-printing characters.  Pidgin is friendly (but perhaps shouldn't be).08:34
micahcowanXChat is, as well (tried it, over at ##micahcowan ;-) )08:35
pochudo you mean that? ^ :)08:36
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bddebianHeya gang08:57
xxxxx1bddebian !08:57
bddebianHello xxxxx108:57
joejaxxhello bddebian 08:57
bddebianHeya joejaxx08:58
eolo999bddebian, i did it08:58
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bddebianeolo999: Did what?09:00
eolo999python-scientific bug09:00
eolo999you were joking... with ScottK about it09:01
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bddebianeolo999: I was?  I'm old and senile, I can't remember shit. :-)09:04
eolo999it doesn't matter, np.09:04
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ScottKeolo999: I'm here.09:24
eolo999Hi ScottK 09:24
bddebianHeya ScottK09:24
ScottKHi bddebian09:25
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ScottKeolo999: Did you say you've got a fix ready?09:25
eolo999the py-scientific one...09:26
racarrCould I bug someone to upload some fixes for beryl-core? There is a security fix included so I guess it needs to go in to feisty (fix for: letting anyone read video memory due to SHM permissions)09:27
racarrhttp://people.freedesktop.org/~racarr/beryl-crack/beryl-core/ has the .changes .dsc .diff.tar.gz and .orig.tar.gz09:27
Specwhat's the eta for BUG #9090209:28
ubotuLaunchpad bug 90902 in linux-source-2.6.20 "prism54: eeprom failed" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/9090209:28
keescookracarr: I'll take a look09:29
ScottKbddebian: Maybe you'd like to upload eolo999's fix: Bug #11380309:30
ubotuLaunchpad bug 113803 in python-scientific "Python-netcdf crashes in Feisty" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/11380309:30
Specand is there anything i could do to speed it up? ie: repackage it myself and upload it to revu?09:30
HobbseeSpec: ask in #ubuntu-kernel09:31
racarrkeescook: Thanks.09:31
bddebianScottK: Upload for gutsy?09:31
ScottKbddebian: Yes09:31
ScottKbddebian: Once it's fixed in Gutsy, we'll talk SRU...09:32
keescookracarr: I think the debian/rules needs the cdbs simple-patch-sys added otherwise I don't think this patch actually gets applied.09:32
keescook(also, the changelog needs "gutsy" rather than "feisty")09:34
ScottKeolo999: Want another to work on?09:34
racarrkeescook: Mm. Ok.09:34
eolo999let's see it... even if i have very few free time..09:34
ScottKeolo999: Bug 114798 should be reasonably straightforward if you want.09:35
ubotuLaunchpad bug 114798 in spambayes "sb_imapfilter fails to run under Python 2.5: SyntaxError: from __future__ imports" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/11479809:35
=== eolo999 is looking
ScottKeolo999: I think it just needs a little try: except: magic to get the import right for both Python 2.4 and 2.5 (haven't studied it in depth though).09:36
racarrkeescook: Ok. Fixed and reuploaded.09:37
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geserScottK, eolo999: the fix is to move the "from __future__" line to begin of the file (of course after the #! line if one exists)09:40
keescookracarr: thanks!  I've sponsored it.09:40
ScottKgeser: Thanks.09:40
racarrkeescook: Thank you :).09:41
eolo999if the package is for ubuntu feisty/gutsy shouldn't be better to remove 'from __future__'09:41
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bddebianeolo999: And you test installed this right? :)09:44
eolo999Yes i tested it rebuilding the package and installing it09:44
bddebianOK, uploading09:45
eolo999with c code recompiled09:45
ryanakcajoejaxx: ??09:45
eolo999perhaps if some other person test it...09:45
bddebianWell it builds and installs OK, I just don't know the app well so..09:45
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eolo999bddebian, to test it just: python /usr/share/doc/python-netcdf/examples/netcdf_demo.py09:46
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bddebianSeems to work fine, uploaded09:49
racarrOk. Also have some copyright issues (missing copy of the LGPL, missiong reference to the fact that the build system is LGPLed), and error handling (set -e in preerm/postinst) fixed in Aquamarine (the kwin style window decorator for Beryl...)09:49
racarrIf anyone can look at / upload that.09:49
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geserScottK: I added a comment how to fix it to the bug and marked it as bitesize.09:51
eolo999bddebian, thx09:53
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ScottKeolo999: There is also Bug 114859, which I haven't looked at at all.09:56
ubotuLaunchpad bug 114859 in psycopg "python-psycopg-dbg reports undefined symbol Py_InitModule4" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/11485909:56
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Lutinracarr: you don't need to build-depend on pkg-config (required by libgtk2.0-dev at least, nor autotools-dev (required by automake1.9)09:57
LaserJockScottK: yes09:57
ScottKLaserJock: Thanks.09:57
eolo999ScottK, i'll apt source this too and see if i can do something in the next days.09:57
racarrLutin: Mm. I wonder why we didn't catch that when we originally did this09:57
ScottKeolo999: Great.  Keep up the good work.09:58
racarrthen again. we had been working on them for 2 days straight when we got to Aquamarine...09:58
racarrOk. I can fix that...just a second09:58
Lutinracarr: don't know either :)09:59
bddebianLaserJock: !!10:00
LaserJockbddebian: Barry!!10:01
bddebianLaserJock: You went to Sevilla?10:02
eolo999ScottK, Bug #114798 can be fixed the way you said... move import at beginning of file10:02
ubotuLaunchpad bug 114798 in spambayes "sb_imapfilter fails to run under Python 2.5: SyntaxError: from __future__ imports" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/11479810:02
bddebianLaserJock: Better than France? :-)  (Spanish girls can be HOT) :-)10:02
ScottKeolo999: Fix it the way geser said.10:02
racarrLutin: Ok. Fixed.10:04
eolo999the strange thing is that debian/patch folder contains a 'fix_import_future.dpatch' file10:05
LaserJockbddebian: it was definitely better than Paris. The food was great, the city was great10:05
Lutinracarr: the first changelog entry mentions a patch which is no longer there. has it been dropped ?10:05
LaserJockand I kept my laptop and wallet10:05
ajmitchLaserJock: that's a good improvement10:06
ajmitchLaserJock: you should have stayed for longer though10:06
LaserJockI know10:06
ScottKeolo999: Maybe the patch just isn't being applied for some reason then.10:06
LaserJockI was home for less than 24hrs though10:06
LaserJockand I was flying again10:07
LaserJockhad a 3hr rehearsal and got stuck in a tux for 8hrs10:07
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LaserJockthen flew back10:07
eolo999i'm checking...10:07
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Amaranthbddebian: The scenery was better than, well, anywhere I've been :)10:08
bddebianAmaranth: Nice10:10
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ajmitchthen go next time10:11
racarrLutin: Looks like it. Because it's not there in the package currently in universe either.10:14
racarrLutin: It never should have been in the changelog. because it got removed when I synced with GIT. and there was no upload inbetween.10:15
Lutinracarr: then, you don't need to builddep on automake1.910:15
bddebianI hope to go to Boston if I am still around10:16
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racarrLutin: Err. Why do you say that? I'm almost sure we do (it failed to build without it, I remember)10:17
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Lutinracarr: why would you need it ? there's no change/patch against the buildsystem10:17
leonelScottK: ping10:18
ScottKleonel: Pong10:18
leonelScottK:  patching  edgy's squirrelmail    after    apt-get source 10:19
leonelScottK: cd squirrelmail10:19
racarrLutin: Err. It's definitely running automake at some point while the package is being built. I can look in to why (It uses the KDE build system...which I am not really familiar with at all).10:19
ScottKleonel: If this is going to get long, you might want to pastebin it.10:19
leonelScottK: then   when I do    dpatch-edit-patch   I got this error 10:19
leonelmake: *** No rule to make target `unpatch'.  Stop.10:20
Lutinracarr: will check....sounds strange10:20
ScottKleonel: IIRC the package doesn't have the patching system installed.10:20
racarrLutin: I don't see anything in the diff.gz...10:20
leonelScottK: yes  10:20
ScottKleonel: Didn't crimsun tell you to edit the source directly and not worry about adding a patch system?10:20
Lutinracarr: can't see your point10:21
leonelwas by  dpatch-edit-patch  patch110:21
leonelthen edit the source  there 10:21
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leoneland exit 200 10:21
leonelI mean  exit 10:21
ScottKleonel: Don't use dpacth-edit-patch.  That is not necessary.10:21
leonelthen ?10:21
leoneljust 10:21
leonelcd source10:21
ScottKJust edit the source tree directly using $EDITOR of your choice.10:21
Lutinracarr: hum...funny. actually sound like the buildsystem has been modified within the orig.tar.gz10:22
Lutinanyways, let's keep automake as it ftbfs otherwise10:22
leoneland when I finish  with dbuild -S  -uc  us10:22
racarrLutin: Ok. So the version I have uploaded now at http://people.freedesktop.org/~racarr/beryl-crack/aquamarine should be good10:23
ScottKleonel: Then debdiff.10:23
leonelfor the change log  what do I put as the package name ?10:24
ScottKNot sure what you mean?10:24
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leonelScottK:  squirrelmail (2:1.4.8-1ubuntu0.1) edgy-security; urgency=low10:24
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ScottKleonel: Looks sane.10:25
leonelworking ...10:25
ScottKleonel: Look at the other versions and make sure you don't duplicate version numbers anywhere.10:25
leonelScottK:  squirrelmail (2:1.4.8-1) unstable; urgency=high10:26
leonelthis is  what  edgy's squirrelmail  has10:26
Lutinracarr: aquamarine-dev seems to be empty10:26
ScottKjust set urgency to low, we don't really use it.10:27
racarrMrgh. I wonder if it always was...let me look.10:27
leonelScottK:  so this  will be   squirrelmail (2:1.4.8-1ubuntu0.1) edgy-security; urgency=low10:27
ScottKleonel: Your version number looks good.  Yes10:27
leonelpatching ... 10:28
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ajmitchyay, back at work now10:29
ajmitchjust what I always wanted10:29
racarrLutin: Err. yeah. It's empty. It's just there for the dependencies.10:30
geserleonel: what about dapper-backports? it has a backport of the edgy version10:31
Hobbseeajmitch: you like work.10:31
leonelgeser: the edgy has bugs too10:32
leonelgeser: can we backport  feisty's squirrelmail to edgy and dapper ??   works fine   and  no other package gets  broke10:32
Lutinracarr: can't really get the point ... but assuming it's needed, you might want to change the description to explicitely say that it's a metapackage10:33
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racarrLutin: I don't really see the point either ( I didn't do it originally ). Should we just remove it?10:34
geserleonel: it should be possible, but you still need to patch the released version as not everybody uses backports10:34
Lutinracarr: imho, it should just be nuked. maybe poke another MOTU around to make sure it's the right thing, but I'd remove it10:34
leonelgeser: yes I was thinking that10:35
racarrAnyone else want to comment?10:35
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leonelgeser: and many people  thinks that  if there's no  security announce  there are no security problems   in universe 10:35
racarrUpdating aquamarine for some copyright issues, and it turns out the aquamarine-dev binary package is more or less useless (a metapackage of two packages). Should it just be nuked?10:36
racarrnothing depends on it...10:36
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ScottKleonel: Actually we should be able to backport the Gutsy version to both Dapper and Edgy, but we still need the *-security fixes as backports are not enabled by default.10:42
ajmitchHobbsee: you shouldn't be awake10:42
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Hobbseeajmitch: i know.10:42
leonelScottK: yes  10:43
ScottKleonel: Once you get the *-security updates done, I'll walk you through the backport request process.10:43
leonelScottK:  great !10:45
ajmitchHobbsee: please try & get back to normal .au time10:45
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Hobbseeajmitch: i wish.10:45
leonelScottK: I need  python-psycopg2  in dapper ... :-P    but let's do  that  after squirrelmail ..10:45
ScottKleonel: OK10:46
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bddebianOK damnit, why does libglade-2.0 have a package config file but libglademm-2.4 doesn't? :-(10:48
eolo999ScottK, ciao, i have to go...10:49
ScottKeolo999: OK.  See you later.  Thanks again for your contributions.10:49
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=== bddebian is truly an idiot :'-(
joejaxxbddebian: what happened? :(11:00
xxxxx1bye all11:01
joejaxxbye xxxxx1 11:01
bddebianlater xxxxx111:02
bddebianjoejaxx: I'm just stupid :)  I didn't have the package-config file because I didn't have the -dev package installed :)11:03
DarkSun88Any universe sponsor?11:07
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bddebianLater gang11:11
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DktrKranzsee you11:23
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leonelwhy do I have to eat  I'm  patching .... 11:31
leonelbe back ..11:32
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sacatersorry to bother, but what package to I need to install to build packages etc11:41
sacaterive forgot what its called...11:41
leoneldpatch devscripts pbuilder 11:42
sacaterthanks mate 11:42
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pochuAnybody knows how long takes an upload to feisty-proposed to build?11:54
pochubtw, I can't find it either at launchpad or at archives.ubuntu.com11:54
pochucrimsun: liferea11:54
pochubug 10368811:54
ubotuLaunchpad bug 103688 in liferea "liferea crashes - ** ERROR **: file itemlist.c: line 172 (itemlist_load): assertion failed: (NULL != itemSet)" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/10368811:54
crimsunthat's because it hasn't been accepted yet.11:55
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pochucrimsun: ok, thanks :)11:55
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micahcowanI'd like to get opinions on the suitability of bug 105294 for an SRU to edgy.12:00
ubotuLaunchpad bug 105294 in highlight "highlight crashes by executing in a shell" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/10529412:00
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ajmitchmicahcowan: depends if there's an appropriate patch to fix it12:02
micahcowanajmitch, works in both dapper and feisty; it would seem simple enough to backport feisty's.12:03
micahcowanHm, that title needs to be fixed, I think.12:03
ajmitchmicahcowan: SRU doesn't mean backporting, it's getting a patch that fixes the problem12:03
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micahcowanajmitch, if true, that could be made /much/ more clear on the SRU page. Also, the backport page, in referring the reader to /SRU if it is a regression or security issue, gives the impression that an SRU could be a backport for regression purposes, rather than snazzy-feature purposes.12:08
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micahcowanRegardless, I wouldn't mind doing a patch for highlight, as it seems likely that the fix should be straightforward. However, I don't want to put the work into it if it wouldn't be an SRU candidate in the first place.12:08
crimsunit's a crash.  That's an SRU candidate if there's a trivial fix.12:09
paranIs it possible to tell pbuilder not to clean up the buildplace when a build fails? I don't find any option for this in the man page12:09

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