[08:02] <darkmatter> anyone whose alive, need opinions on the sliders  http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=500503287&context=set-72157594488098254&size=o
[08:02] <darkmatter> ignore the steppers and the scrolltroughs. they're not implemented yet
[08:02] <darkmatter> still using the old images
[08:06] <troy_s> darkmatter: Probably just flip to round at that size... on a scaling thinking.
[08:06] <darkmatter> yeah...
[08:07] <darkmatter> they looked better before they got scaled
[08:07] <darkmatter> bloody gtk
[08:09] <darkmatter> I'll tweak the grad later.. must finish widgets first
[08:09] <troy_s> just get the basic shapes in
[08:10] <troy_s> the only things that really will obviously standout in terms of aesthetic are the pill controls -- the scrollbars and the progressbars
[08:10] <troy_s> the rest is relatively innocuous
[08:11] <darkmatter> yup.. I'm just wondering... keep the thumbs or go for divets (possibly just three) like the handles in the panel n statusbar (or the range sliders)
[08:12] <darkmatter> well, only one way to find out
[08:26] <darkmatter> troy_s, http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=500525067&size=o <--- to sterile, eh?
[08:27] <troy_s> darkmatter: Re?
[08:28] <darkmatter> oh.. sorry... the sliders with those thumbs (in twf.. compare to firefox in the bg)
[08:29] <troy_s> wholly christ
[08:29] <troy_s> what am i looking at?
[08:29] <troy_s> lol
[08:31] <troy_s> darkmatter: Oh stepper?
[08:31] <troy_s> darkmatter: We looking at the scrollbar?
[08:31] <darkmatter> yeah.. the slider thumbs (the little grippers).. do the dots look to sterile compared tho the groves?
[08:32] <darkmatter> *grooves
[08:32] <darkmatter> overall impresion of the effect it has on the sliders
[08:32] <darkmatter> *impression
[08:33] <troy_s> darkmatter: Ok... that is officially well off the deep end of ocd.
[08:33] <darkmatter> haha
[08:33] <troy_s> darkmatter: Uh... get rid of them all together and make the grabber fancy.
[08:33] <troy_s> darkmatter: Hows that to pull you off of the bloody ocd path?
[08:33] <darkmatter> oks
[08:33] <darkmatter> :P
[08:34] <darkmatter> nuoveau grippers!!!
[08:35] <darkmatter> ocd heaven!!! so many designs to choose from!! xD
[08:35] <troy_s> somethin
[08:35] <troy_s> anything
[08:36] <troy_s> ANYTHING other than that bloody 'hey let's do utter drab' clearlooks mentality
[08:37] <darkmatter> ;)
[09:52] <darkmatter> good morning klepas
[10:00] <klepas> moin darkmatter :)
[10:02] <darkmatter> http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=500525067&size=o <-- umm... wee? ;P
[10:03] <klepas> hot
[10:03] <klepas> new MorningGlory or something else?
[10:03] <klepas> and you're using the same wallpaper as i am ^_^
[10:04] <klepas> http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/55367713/
[10:10] <darkmatter> klepas, yup.. new morning glory.. now just called glory
[10:10] <klepas> where can i get ^^
[10:10] <darkmatter> yeah... saw that earlier
[10:10] <klepas> want to give it for a desktop test-drive
[10:10] <darkmatter> klepas... hopefully be tarballed by morning
[10:11] <darkmatter> just running some experiments
[10:11] <klepas> awesome
[10:11] <klepas> *nod*
[10:21] <darkmatter> welp.... time for another test
[10:22] <klepas> *nod*
[10:23] <klepas> good luck :)
[10:23] <klepas> and keep up the awesome work as always :)
[10:25] <darkmatter> klepas, http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=500556710&size=o <---- ummm....
[10:27] <darkmatter> yay or nay
[10:35] <klepas> yay+1
[10:36] <klepas> what font and font size is that?
[10:36] <darkmatter> k.. its just a rough in... but guess it works
[10:36] <darkmatter> font Segoi UI
[10:36] <darkmatter> size is 10pt at 75dpi
[10:53] <klepas> in the repos?
[10:54] <darkmatter> nope.. its a vista thingy
[10:54] <darkmatter> dcc it to ya if ya want
[10:59] <klepas> darkmatter: can you email it to me?
[10:59] <klepas> klepas@klepas.org
[11:00] <darkmatter> sure
[11:03] <darkmatter> klepas, sent
[11:13] <klepas> ta!
[11:16] <nothlit> darkmatter: the arrow buttons for the slider don't seem to fit--especially since the path the slider travels along goes farther than the slider travels
[11:18] <darkmatter> yeah... I know... havent done the arrows yet (still the old versions), and the trough was just quick n dirty (just to est the look)
[11:18] <darkmatter> redoing it atm
[11:29] <artnay> http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2007/May-15-1.html
[12:25] <MindOfChaos> So
[12:31] <lapo> hi
[02:41] <dilomo> hi everybody
[02:43] <dilomo> i think we have to make some test condition for various palettes
[02:44] <dilomo> such as text privew or smth
[02:44] <dilomo> to test the colors on various objects
[02:44] <dilomo> what do you think?
[03:27] <klepas> darkmatter: hey
[04:39] <darkmatter> hey klepas, you rang?
[05:32] <klepas> yea
[05:32] <klepas> wanted to say thanks for the neat font
[05:32] <klepas> (:
[06:54] <nothlit> dilomo: heyas
[06:55] <dilomo> hi
[06:55] <dilomo> ;)
[06:55] <dilomo> what's new
[06:55] <nothlit> new email
[06:57] <dilomo> okay
[06:58] <dilomo> I was wondering how collaboration may be expressed with colors
[06:59] <troy_s> well you can go two ways on that...
[06:59] <troy_s> you can either combine your palette with some form of motif
[07:00] <dilomo> what kind of motif
[07:00] <dilomo> ?
[07:00] <troy_s> or you can rely on the learning / education of your audience to form connective associations to colour patterns -- unfortunately the latter generally relies on linking to well branded company presentations or something akin to that.
[07:00] <nothlit> thats the stage we're in deciding ;p
[07:00] <troy_s> dilomo: well that's the question...
[07:00] <troy_s> i actually think the techy blueprint idea could fly quite well if executed properly.
[07:00] <nothlit> if you read the wiki page, i've suggested one way
[07:01] <troy_s> and it would be a nice twist away from the conventional 'oatmeal' ;)
[07:01] <nothlit> but hopefully we can come up with more than that :D
[07:02] <dilomo> Today I used Ubuntu for nearly an hour
[07:02] <troy_s> dilomo: Um... not exactly a feat lol
[07:02] <dilomo> and I was not very pleased
[07:02] <dilomo> with the bright oranges
[07:03] <troy_s> dilomo: Well that's just a subjective statement really... not much value in it either.
[07:03] <dilomo> they just don't fit
[07:03] <dilomo> because a bright color is intended to atract attention
[07:03] <nothlit> fit what?
[07:03] <troy_s> dilomo: There are many other things that could easily be cited rather than colour alone.
[07:03] <troy_s> dilomo: Actually, artskool 101:  You define your lights by your darks.
[07:04] <troy_s> dilomo: It isn't bright, it is simply bright relative to its peers.
[07:04] <dilomo> maybe you are right
[07:04] <nothlit> thats far too general--brights can be hilights, to expand dynamic range, etc, they don't just provide one function
[07:05] <dilomo> yes I did't said that i don't like the colors
[07:05] <dilomo> but personaly to me they are a bit bright
[07:06] <troy_s> skething a motif or two might go a long way to mixing and matching some colours against it.
[07:06] <nothlit> troy_s: well in the age of light emitting displays, something incredibly bright can happen without difference in the surrounding area ;p
[07:06] <troy_s> lol
[07:06] <troy_s> except your pupil would close down on it a smidge... lol... being full of feces but on a serious note
[07:07] <troy_s> the human eye physiology factors into a lot of that mumbo jumbo that people FIRMLY believe
[07:07] <troy_s> albeit erroneously
[07:07] <troy_s> 1) Colour correction of the human eye / brain
[07:07] <troy_s> etc.
[07:07] <dilomo> so lets focus on the MOTIF
[07:07] <dilomo> ;)
[07:07] <nothlit> actually
[07:07] <nothlit> lets focus on the concept
[07:08] <nothlit> what do these words mean?
[07:08] <nothlit> if we don't do that, we can't figure out what they represent :)
[07:08] <troy_s> nothlit: That gets pretty tricky -- and again why you must clearly state your audience in any design decision... it's different across the globe.
[07:08] <troy_s> nothlit: For example, I hear elegant pop up _a lot_
[07:09] <dilomo> collaboration means people joined together
[07:09] <dilomo> working together and
[07:09] <troy_s> nothlit: And having looked into it, done a bit of research etc., you will find that almost always it will harkon back to a movement or some sort of 'defacto' presentation.
[07:09] <dilomo> achieving smth
[07:09] <troy_s> intertwined ascention, but that is a little fedora (Diana once again lol)
[07:10] <troy_s> as an artskool 101 attempt you would probably try to show some element of 'many' working towards 'one'
[07:10] <troy_s> which is pretty wide open in terms of execution
[07:10] <dilomo> so ... we collaborate where?
[07:11] <dilomo> what is the atmosphere of that place
[07:11] <dilomo> ?
[07:11] <nothlit> everywhere in the OSS world :)
[07:11] <troy_s> ugh
[07:11] <troy_s> motif
[07:12] <troy_s> puzzle pieces was one that someone threw out at one point...
[07:12] <dilomo> once defined the place and human moods we can define color
[07:12] <troy_s> the chains/intertwined thing is just too damn close to fedora's work
[07:12] <dilomo> and so what
[07:12] <nothlit> dilomo: we need to define progress more, and both in <concert>
[07:13] <dilomo> troy_s: we need to accomplish smth connected with the tow words
[07:14] <dilomo> we do not have to care about fedora
[07:14] <dilomo> two words*
[07:14] <nothlit> we have to make sure we don't mimic them, which is more difficult than i realised
[07:15] <nothlit> dilomo: put what you have so far onto the wiki article https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/CommunityTheme/Collaboration+Progress
[07:15] <troy_s> we don't need to care about fedora, but the point is to create something _new_
[07:15] <troy_s> and the last thing that is wanted is to bother trying to do something if the net result is a shitty gradient or a duplicate of something else.
[07:15] <troy_s> so yes, an awareness of your design 'realm' doesn't hurt.
[07:16] <troy_s> dilomo: I would just suggest that the 'intertwined strands' be avoided -- as there are many other options out there i would guess.
[07:16] <dilomo> ok but isn't the new thing well forgotten old one?
[07:17] <nothlit> i doubt we would know how to design for something otherwise
[07:18] <nothlit> dilomo: sure, but we shouldn't just echo whats been done lately--it should seem new
[07:18] <dilomo> sure it should
[07:19] <dilomo> nothlit: waht do you want me to put on the wiki?
[07:19] <nothlit> dilomo: what you just said about collaboration :)
[07:20] <dilomo> :D ok
[07:22] <troy_s> North American audience is probably easy to pull some motifs that are hot right now
[07:22] <troy_s> try google type in the motifs and click images
[07:22] <troy_s> you often won't find design trends, but if you are at all interested in art and design, you can probably spot them relatively easily
[07:23] <troy_s> logolounge has some great compendiums on design trends and currents (2006 and now the more recent 2007 that lapo pointed out to me the other day)
[07:23] <nothlit> what demographic is the majority of ubuntu users anyways
[07:23] <troy_s> nothlit: Well taht probably comes down to a question that I am looking into...
[07:24] <troy_s> nothlit: I think the more appropriate question is -- to whom do you wish to direct this to.
[07:24] <nothlit> holy--ubuntu is ahead of windows and osx in google trends
[07:24] <troy_s> nothlit: If you want to appeal to the fecking folks who are already here, then you are probably doomed as aesthetics are all over the map (just look at the bloody screenshot galleries out there)
[07:25] <troy_s> nothlit: Again, it comes down to who you are speaking with.  There just aint no such thing as 'universal' design.  Its hokey bullshit peddled in backroom rubbish bins.
[07:28] <dilomo> I think that when installing Ubuntu the theme should be automatically determined by the locale
[07:29] <dilomo> because different people - different tastes
[07:29] <troy_s> dilomo: Is that 'hot africa' yours, if so, perhaps scale it down so it doesn't flog the page
[07:29] <troy_s> dilomo: I think a locales based approach is damn wise, but i chatted with mdz about it for icons and well...
[07:29] <troy_s> dilomo: It wont happen.  or come close to happening.
[07:29] <dilomo> I will replace it soon
[07:29] <dilomo> with smth new
[07:30] <troy_s> dilomo: Just make it more thumbnaily
[07:30] <nothlit> dilomo: that takes a lot of manpower, and locale based research
[07:30] <dilomo> contrained to the palette
[07:30] <dilomo> constrained*
[07:30] <troy_s> nothlit: I think the idea is simple really though -- just provide certain overrides for glaringly obvious elemetns that have better communication in a cultural notation...
[07:31] <nothlit> we're not marketing--just a very small community based art effort
[07:31] <nothlit> troy_s: oh--i was thinking something far more comprehensive lol
[07:31] <troy_s> nothlit: No... just simple and small.
[07:31] <nothlit> it definitely won't happen any time soon
[07:31] <troy_s> nothlit: rather along the lines as to how the evolution of the translations evolves.
[07:31] <troy_s> nothlit: It simply won't happen.
[07:32] <nothlit> we're shooting for universe (we don't even have packagers yet)--and won't fit on a disc/requires ubiquity/alternatives integration
[07:32] <troy_s> nothlit:  It is very much symptomatic.  A few small areas where Ubuntu could set pace, it simply won't.
[07:32] <troy_s> i have two packagers
[07:32] <troy_s> or at least access to two who could help
[07:33] <troy_s> that's not an issue
[07:34] <nothlit> dilomo: anyways--what does progress mean to you--and what things could possibly represent the two words in concert?
[07:34] <troy_s> getting _output_ is.
[07:34] <troy_s> nothlit: Sketch - book.
[07:34] <troy_s> nothlit: Trust someone labeled as 'artist' as far as they can sketch.
[07:34] <nothlit> troy_s: more: ideas!
[07:35] <troy_s> hrm.
[07:35] <troy_s> roots?
[07:35] <dilomo> i can sketch
[07:35] <troy_s> vines
[07:36] <dilomo> i'm preparing to be an architect
[07:36] <troy_s> there were actually a few photos that were pretty solid...
[07:36] <troy_s> nothlit: you have seen those images with the painted hands?
[07:36] <nothlit> troy_s: which images are you talking about?
[07:37] <dilomo> about progress: What kind of progress?
[07:37] <dilomo> the tech progress
[07:37] <troy_s> grr you would say that
[07:37] <dilomo> or the soul progress
[07:37] <nothlit> dilomo: thats up to us to intrepret
[07:38] <nothlit> we can go with any interpretation of progress, be it spiritual, technological, idealogical...etc
[07:38] <dilomo> i think we all can see the tech progress
[07:38] <troy_s> nothlit: I was thinking something like this:  http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/GreenFire?content=58367
[07:38] <dilomo> just infont of us
[07:38] <troy_s> sorry couldn't resist
[07:38] <dilomo> so  to me we have to
[07:39] <dilomo> concentrate on the spiritual part
[07:40] <dilomo> and what spirit is?
[07:40] <dilomo> definitly smth bright white and pure
[07:40] <nothlit> troy_s: i like this roots/vines idea--you going to write this stuff down on the wiki or should i?
[07:41] <nothlit> especially with climbing vines we can do something with them supporting each other and an exaggerated perspective
[07:41] <nothlit> dilomo: hmm that is a <very> culturally grounded association
[07:41] <troy_s> feck i can't find it...
[07:42] <troy_s> goddamit
[07:42] <troy_s> its top shelf really
[07:42] <nothlit> and we're talking about actual progress itself, not a representation of spirit--make sure you keep site of that
[07:42] <troy_s> far superior than anything that ub has had
[07:42] <nothlit> sight*
[07:42] <troy_s> or will have for tha tmatter
[07:42] <dilomo> and what you think vines are progress?
[07:42] <dilomo> ;)
[07:42] <troy_s> ew... henna could be intresting
[07:43] <troy_s> nevermind, that's an aside
[07:43] <nothlit> like some people think spirits would be coloured according to the soul of the person, or its more aura like, rainbow coloured, or otherwise shimmering-- theres associations of warming, and then theres ethereal, etc
[07:43] <nothlit> dilomo: vines climb upwards--and they keep with the organic aspect of ubuntu
[07:43] <nothlit> and they're many--climbing up and across each other, etc
[07:44] <nothlit> the upwards aspect is a very common motif of progress
[07:44] <dilomo> I undertand your point of view
[07:44] <nothlit> dilomo: how would you represent progress of the spirit?
[07:45] <nothlit> and differentiate it from ascention--and keep the collaboration aspect represented?
[07:45] <dilomo> progrss towards heaven :)
[07:46] <dilomo> but my idea was mainli to focus on the whites, blues and grays
[07:46] <dilomo> mainly*
[07:46] <dilomo> beacuse we 70% water
[07:47] <dilomo> and we try to reach heaven
[07:47] <dilomo> right?
[07:47] <troy_s> i'll find those hands if it is the last thing i do
[07:47] <troy_s> grr
[07:47] <nothlit> i think religion is a charged subject
[07:47] <dilomo> yes but
[07:47] <nothlit> and so is death
[07:47] <troy_s> ugh
[07:48] <troy_s> focus
[07:48] <troy_s> if there intends on being _any_ output... lol
[07:48] <dilomo> all the religins preach smth like this
[07:48] <troy_s> that's why all religions belong in the dust bin
[07:48] <troy_s> on a more practical note...
[07:48] <troy_s> i don't dare draw vines
[07:49] <dilomo> ok lets just make the initial palette
[07:49] <dilomo> and start experimenting
[07:49] <nothlit> troy_s: because?
[07:50] <troy_s> nothlit: For reasons that should be obvious to someone like _you_
[07:50] <dilomo> with the vines or anything else
[07:51] <dilomo> can you both make a plette and post it to the wiki
[07:51] <nothlit> troy_s: i can guess- but i'd like to know your specific reasons and not assume
[07:51] <dilomo> so that we - the others to start working?
[07:51] <troy_s> that's my specific reason... i don't know if i can do different but i suppose i could try.
[07:51] <troy_s> its just that it is _sooooo_ done for me...
[07:51] <troy_s> i can't walk along the elegant flora until that portion is complete lol
[07:52] <troy_s> although if someone came up with a different direction
[07:52] <dilomo> brb eating
[07:52] <troy_s> i could probably follow style
[07:53] <nothlit> palettes should be done with an aim of a message--you should choose colours representative of the subject matter, and when you envision something in those distinct set of colours/values, you should be able to imagine people getting a distinct feeling of whatever we're trying to achieve
[07:53] <troy_s> goddamit all of this curve or gradient shite makes me want to curl up into a little fetal ball and cry
[07:54] <troy_s> wow... just makes you realize that all of this 'work' on gnome look
[07:54] <troy_s> and vertov was right
[07:54] <troy_s> 'anyone who cares for their art seeks the essence of their own technique'
[07:55] <troy_s> jeebus... pretty hard to find 1 in 30 with a distinct style
[07:57] <nothlit> most of the stuff on -look is designed to emulate something or is fanboy service designed to reproduce his/her object of affection everywhere
[07:58] <nothlit> its not going to be design school lol
[07:59] <troy_s> lol
[07:59] <troy_s> apparently... but even still...
[08:00] <troy_s> I CANT FIND THAT BLOODY IMAGE
[08:04] <troy_s> nothlit: There you go -- ubuntu cthulhu
[08:04] <troy_s> http://gug.sunsite.dk/pictures/1129712838.png
[08:05] <nothlit> lol @ the photoshop tut 'vines'
[08:05] <nothlit> tentacles*
[08:06] <nothlit> troy_s: ah--i thought you were searching for hands?
[08:07] <troy_s> i am!
[08:07] <troy_s> i can't find the buggers
[08:07] <troy_s> anyways, they are two hands joined on the left side of frame from top to bottom
[08:07] <troy_s> painted
[08:08] <troy_s> against an orange backdrop
[08:08] <troy_s> realtively ... well good.
[08:11] <troy_s> ubuntu ass apparently is a popular motif
[08:11] <nothlit> ...a joke motif
[08:12] <troy_s> lol  Ubuntu Ass
[08:13] <troy_s> We thought you liked our approach to ass... so now we give you the real deal ... Ubuntu Ass.
[08:23] <dilomo> back :)
[08:23] <dilomo> did you made the palette?
[08:29] <dilomo> i guess no :)
[08:56] <troy_s> dilomo: I think everyone's busy with various things.
[09:34] <nothlit> troy_s: https://people.fluxbuntu.org/~nothlit/communitytheme/gutsy/sketches/roots.png
[09:35] <nothlit> troy_s: vines are difficult to illustrate supporting each other-- so i chose unknown ropy plant matter instead --more tree/root like
[09:35] <troy_s> nothlit: no shit
[09:35] <troy_s> lol
[09:35] <troy_s> nothlit: The real trick is making roots / vines 'pretty' in a north american sensibility
[09:36] <dilomo> when you create the palette post it on the mailing lists
[09:36] <troy_s> nothlit: Some of that highlight work / gradient on the root itself might work if you thumbnail in on it...?
[09:36] <troy_s> dilomo: Try generating something that uses a palette
[09:36] <dilomo> and then i will join creatig constrained art
[09:36] <troy_s> dilomo: It really is an open thing..
[09:36] <troy_s> dilomo: Who knows what will work what wont...
[09:36] <troy_s> dilomo: Just keep throwing ideas out there with the motivations behind it.
[09:36] <nothlit> dilomo: you can create one too-- hopefully we'll get enough to have a vote on it
[09:37] <dilomo> ok
[09:37] <troy_s> nothlit: I actually am looking at the study a bit in the center... it might have something there...
[09:37] <nothlit> the most important thing for our palettes is to have accompanying text telling us why you chose each colour, and what they mean
[09:37] <troy_s> nothlit: Let me show you what i can see possibly...
[09:38] <troy_s> (although getting to collaboration is a helluva feat lol)
[09:38] <troy_s> (progress creep sure...)
[09:38] <nothlit> troy_s: well i want to show both the roots coming together from a lot of locations, and it all breaking out of the foliage, into the sunlight, with reaching tendrils etc
[09:39] <troy_s> nothlit: Right in the dark band
[09:39] <troy_s> nothlit: Where the three or four roots are
[09:39] <nothlit> yeah
[09:39] <troy_s> nothlit: There is the potential to really use a gradient sort of approach for a base there.
[09:39] <troy_s> then evolve something layered overtop maybe
[09:39] <nothlit> mostly the darks are just thrown in to show form--otherwise it gets confusing
[09:40] <troy_s> the darks could work very well with a layered appraoch to highlights
[09:40] <troy_s> building up to highlights.
[09:40] <nothlit> troy_s: oh--you're thinking inkscape huh? :P
[09:40] <dilomo> good night (well for me:))
[09:40] <troy_s> nothlit: Not at all.
[09:40] <troy_s> dilomo: Night dilomo
[09:41] <troy_s> nothlit: Collaborating is a toughie -- perhaps the idea of progress as attached to a clambering of vines and life across something
[09:41] <joejaxx> troy_s: gobby ftw
[09:41] <troy_s> nothlit: I don't think you can sell plant collaboration
[09:41] <troy_s> joejaxx: Fecker ftw!
[09:41] <joejaxx> lool
[09:41] <troy_s> joejaxx: Remind me to poison you at some point.
[09:41] <joejaxx> lol
[09:41] <troy_s> joejaxx: My head hurts with fecking leaves.
[09:41] <nothlit> joejaxx: we're not ascii artists
[09:42] <troy_s> joejaxx: I haven't quite done anything as hard in a long while...
[09:42] <joejaxx> nothlit: boohoo code in svg in gobby
[09:42] <troy_s> ohhh
[09:42] <nothlit> troy_s: well if we want to go with life--the best way is cooperating life or some sort of miniature echosystem
[09:42] <troy_s> there's an art installation
[09:42] <troy_s> pretty svg rendered as xml
[09:42] <troy_s> woo
[09:42] <troy_s> installation artists look out.
[09:42] <nothlit> LOL
[09:42] <troy_s> nothlit: Good luck on that one.
[09:42] <troy_s> nothlit: How the HELL do you pull that off?
[09:43] <troy_s> ok... i am fecking fluxed out thanks to joejaxx -- need a shower now.
[09:43] <nothlit> troy_s: easiest way would probably to throw birds making a nest together, ants carrying something together etc
[09:43] <troy_s> ugh
[09:43] <nothlit> troy_s: and seed it all over the image
[09:44] <troy_s> that's are pretty literal motif
[09:44] <troy_s> and probably pretty hard to render due to the complexity
[09:44] <troy_s> know what i mean?
[09:44] <nothlit> yeah
[09:44] <troy_s> roots of two systems intertwining could possibly work
[09:44] <troy_s> making it 'pretty' is a whole nother can of wax
[09:45] <troy_s> but quite possibly doable
[09:45] <nothlit> lol two systems?
[09:45] <troy_s> from waht i can see of that gradients in your sketch
[09:45] <troy_s> well life systems
[09:45] <troy_s> as in not literal
[09:45] <troy_s> just a means of telling them apart -- diff leaves or... tones .. or...
[09:45] <troy_s> the real coup to all of it, is making it pretty
[09:45] <nothlit> ahh
[09:45] <troy_s> in a na mentality
[09:45] <troy_s> immediately the cliches might work -- that macro lens feel
[09:45] <nothlit> well we can do an underpainting of the cof colours ;p
[09:46] <nothlit> for each main trunk
[09:46] <troy_s> roots are pretty bloody heavy, i don't think anyone has tried to pretty them in my recent mind.
[09:46] <troy_s> but perhaps the intertwining curves can work in the same way of that original intertwisted spirals.
[09:47] <nothlit> mossify, and add lots of dappered golden light--is the easiest way to make "ugly" bark appealing
[09:47] <troy_s> hrm... i hate to fall back on godrays
[09:47] <troy_s> but it is an option
[09:47] <troy_s> is your dcc working:?
[09:47] <nothlit> not godrays, forest sunlight
[09:48] <joejaxx> yes forest sunlight is god
[09:48] <joejaxx> good*
[09:48] <troy_s> yah those are traditionally called 'god rays' when you shoot them... cracking through the damn forest
[09:48] <nothlit> it should, traditional dcc means the sender is the passive connector
[09:48] <troy_s> god knows how long i have sat out in the fecking bush waiting for the proper crack
[09:48] <troy_s> i'll try
[09:48] <joejaxx> lol
[09:48] <joejaxx> "the proper crack"
[09:49] <troy_s> joejaxx: Dead serious...
[09:49] <troy_s> joejaxx: We once spent a bloody 12 hour day waiting on the sun to crest through fecking trees
[09:49] <joejaxx> troy_s: near a clearing in the forest?
[09:49] <joejaxx> oh wow
[09:49] <troy_s> joejaxx: IN the fecking thing
[09:49] <troy_s> joejaxx: getting eaten by bugglinias
[09:49] <troy_s> joejaxx: I was homicidal by the end of it.
[09:49] <troy_s> joejaxx: Makes you want to climb to the top of a watchtower and start shooting people.
[09:50] <troy_s> godrays sells
[09:50] <troy_s> for certain
[09:50] <troy_s> just look at the more awe inspiring vista walls
[09:50] <troy_s> although i must say, i quite liked diana's underwater godrays
[09:50] <troy_s> in f6
[09:50] <troy_s> they look like someone nerfed them but they still resonate
[09:50] <troy_s> the underwater godrays in the vista aqua work fine too.
[09:51] <joejaxx> yeah
[09:51] <joejaxx> they looked really nice
[09:51] <troy_s> in fact, it is quite funny how much people fail to connect the communication
[09:51] <troy_s> but you _really_ get it when you see it.
[09:51] <troy_s> its such a trivial bag of tricks
[09:51] <troy_s> once you know what you are looking for
[09:51] <troy_s> quite clever design i will say
[09:52] <troy_s> nothlit: Those i pulled at random rather trying to get that 'beauty' element in an abstract
[09:52] <troy_s> nothlit: There is something in each of them
[09:53] <nothlit> troy_s: lol, as evidenced--people like "glowies"
[09:53] <troy_s> glow is _in_
[09:53] <troy_s> and at least a step away from fecking shiny crystal shit
[09:55] <nothlit> troy_s: btw--in the u2 cof logo--have you considered doing the shadow for the red part rather than the highlight?
[09:55] <troy_s> nothlit: THe branding sucks ass.
[09:55] <troy_s> nothlit: Just the last part before I gave up
[09:55] <troy_s> nothlit: If you have ideas, feel free to mix... i wen tthrough trying flora inset grad on the cof, then on the text
[09:55] <troy_s> all shit
[09:56] <troy_s> i _really_ want the bloody motif to carry over to the branding, but right now, my abilities lack the execution
[09:56] <troy_s> hence i picked up flux again
[09:56] <troy_s> ohhhh glowy
[09:57] <troy_s> if we had some bloody female designers, i bet they could open our eyes up to some more beautiful approaches for vine/roots
[09:57] <troy_s> tree
[09:57] <troy_s> et.c
[09:57] <nothlit> well how the hell is it supposed to carry easily when you're not allowed to alter the colours directly at all
[09:57] <troy_s> nothlit: I am altering the colours
[09:57] <troy_s> nothlit: I could care less about the 'rules' that are there for rules sake
[09:57] <troy_s> nothlit: The ubuntu brand for u2 is nothing more than a stroke
[09:58] <troy_s> although the contrast of the logo colours is nice -- so i dont' know.
[09:58] <troy_s> not really putting any restrictions on it all
[09:58] <troy_s> just want something that bloody well results in the 'aha'
[09:58] <troy_s> drop shadow sucks ass.
[09:58] <troy_s> etc
[09:58] <troy_s> glow sucks ass
[09:58] <troy_s> it just isn't right
[09:59] <nothlit> wth http://spaceslogo.spaces.live.com/
[09:59] <troy_s> nothlit: I can assure you that if at some point sabdfl shells out the cash for a designer -- he'll gut the entire scene
[09:59] <nothlit> troy_s: i expect that as well
[10:00] <nothlit> troy_s: you aren't worried about breaking their trademark policy?
[10:00] <troy_s> nothlit: but i don't think that sabdfl has the courage nor ability to hire a real designer
[10:00] <troy_s> nothlit: Fuck the trademark policy
[10:00] <troy_s> nothlit: It says ubuntu, it uses the logo
[10:00] <troy_s> nothlit: Enough branding
[10:00] <nothlit> joejaxx: look at the link i posted
[10:01] <troy_s> nothlit: In order for sabdfl to hire the proper folk, he would have to actually _engage_ the material.
[10:01] <troy_s> nothlit: and i think, despite him being an extremely brilliant guy, he is a little leery of it.
[10:01] <joejaxx> nothlit: space logos?
[10:01] <joejaxx> nothlit: or the one before
[10:01] <nothlit> joejaxx: spaces logo
[10:01] <joejaxx> XML Parsing Error: syntax error
[10:02] <joejaxx> XML Parsing Error: syntax error
[10:02] <joejaxx> Location: http://spaceslogo.spaces.live.com/
[10:02] <joejaxx> Line Number 3, Column 49:
[10:02] <nothlit> looks fine here--the content is amusing
[10:05] <nothlit> troy_s: i think its just whether he gets sick of the walmart look and decides to throw some money @ it or not
[10:05] <nothlit> time will tell
[10:11] <nothlit> troy_s: btw how goes the diy marketing site? i'm interested to see what new direction you're taking
[10:14] <troy_s> god don't even start on the packaging
[10:14] <troy_s> nothlit: I am not doing it... meatballhat is.
[10:14] <troy_s> nothlit: I don't know what point he has it at.
[10:16] <troy_s> nothlit: actually, looking at it, in terms of wallpapers
[10:16] <nothlit> oh really? the openweek representative said you were working on it
[10:16] <troy_s> nothlit: MS completely killed Apple at their own game
[10:16] <troy_s> nothlit: They killed them
[10:16] <troy_s> nothlit: I try to help out on a high level where I can.
[10:17] <troy_s> nothlit: The implementation though, is all meatballhat
[10:17] <troy_s> nothlit: It has a few very cute tongue in cheek things going for it... depends on execution and support at this point.
[10:19] <troy_s> nothlit: If you google for meatballhat you might find his blog and such
[10:19] <nothlit> was that pallete you posted for the marketing site?
[10:20] <troy_s> nothlit: I think that is the basic palette meatballhat is going with... although there were about 6 variations of base to supporting players
[10:20] <troy_s> nothlit: That is one of the strengths of leslie carbaga's appraoch
[10:21] <troy_s> nothlit: it _really_ shows the colours at work as opposed to a stale swatch appraoch
[10:22] <scoobydoo28139> good evening
[10:23] <troy_s> hello scoobydoo28139
[10:23] <scoobydoo28139> hello, are you a real person here?
[10:24] <scoobydoo28139> maybe you can tell me where to get new wall paper (ubuntu)
[10:24] <nothlit> yes only ubotu and ubuntulog are bots in here
[10:25] <troy_s> scoobydoo28139: What are you looking for?
[10:25] <nothlit> scoobydoo28139: http://art.ubuntu.com/main.php , or you can go to gnome-look and search for ubuntu under wallpapers, etc
[10:25] <troy_s> scoobydoo28139: There are plenty of places to get wallpapers... it really depends on what you like.
[10:34] <scoobydoo28139> ok tks
[10:35] <scoobydoo28139> was looking for them in synaptic
[10:35] <scoobydoo28139> but i don't know what to search for or how to install them yet
[10:35] <scoobydoo28139> 3rd day of ubuntu
[10:38] <nothlit> !search wallpaper
[10:38] <ubotu> Found:
[10:39] <nothlit> yeah--mostly wallpapers are going to be from external sources, images you save and select
[10:40] <nothlit> the only wallpapers in the repos i would think exists besides those already installed- are blubuntu, and edubuntu/kubuntu/xubuntu specific ones,
[10:40] <kwwii> in case anyone is interested in the mobile stuff: http://sinecera.de/UMD_mocks/m4_1.png
[10:42] <nothlit> :o there is upper-chest nudity on art.ubuntu.com
[10:43] <nothlit> kwwii: btw your album is pw protected on there?
[10:43] <kwwii> nothlit: nope
[10:43] <kwwii> nothlit: but if there is not a webpage in a dir then the contents are not browsable as such
[10:44] <nothlit> kwwii: http://art.ubuntu.com/main.php?g2_itemId=86
[10:44] <nothlit> thats for that intel device?
[10:44] <kwwii> nothlit: ahh, now I see what you mean...no idea why that is like that
[10:44] <kwwii> nothlit: that is a mockup for the Ubuntu Mobile Edition if that is what you mean
[10:45] <nothlit> kwwii: do you use any matchbox components or is it all from scratch?
[10:47] <kwwii> nothlit: we will end up writing lots from scratch
[10:48] <nothlit> kwwii: is the lower panel a tasks panel or something else?
[10:48] <nothlit> and why do you have a start when you already have a task based pen/finger interface?
[10:49] <kwwii> nothlit: the lower panel is the main app panel...the things on the desktop are minor apps, etc.
[10:49] <kwwii> I just put the start in for fun, no need for it
[10:49] <kwwii> afterwards I realized that people will think it should be a menu (me=mac user)
[10:50] <nothlit> oh-- so is the desktop stuff mainly going to be scaling or scrolling in terms of expansion?
[10:50] <kwwii> scaling I hope
[10:51] <kwwii> it all depends on how much GL we can use
[10:51] <nothlit> so what parts of that mockup will be visible when an application is active?
[10:52] <kwwii> the bottom bar will become the main toolbar(s) for the app, so you will only see the top bar and that will also show the title of the app and window name, etc.
[10:53] <nothlit> and are you going to stick with oxygen style icons for these limited resolution displays?
[10:53] <kwwii> the amazing thing is that although some of the displays are only 4" the resolution is amazing, so yes, we are going to keep that style of icons
[10:54] <kwwii> not sure if it will be oxygen icons or not, but I think that the hiRes stuff looks nice
[10:54] <nothlit> pixel density has come leaps and bounds these past two years :)
[10:54] <kwwii> the machine I saw had a 5" screen and did 800x480
[10:58] <nothlit> whens mobile going to have alpha/beta, release stuff out?--what devices are targetted
[11:01] <kwwii> the first release will be gutsy
[11:02] <kwwii> so I would guess that there will be code available very soon
[11:02] <kwwii> although none of it will work very well :-)
[11:05] <kwwii> I think at first it is i386 stuff only, not sure about the rest
[11:05] <kwwii> adding the word "cross compiler" to a paragraph is a good way to make me ingore it ;-)
[11:08] <troy_s> kwwii: Is that through intel or sabdfl?
[11:09] <kwwii> troy_s: what part do you mean?
[11:09] <troy_s> the mock... as in who is implementing it
[11:09] <troy_s> and has it cleared?
[11:10] <kwwii> ahh, now I get you...both are working on it
[11:10] <kwwii> there are several intel people, a couple of nokia folks, ubuntu peeps and others
[11:12] <troy_s> who is leading design?
[11:12] <troy_s> i imagine that would be intel's baby yes?
[11:14] <kwwii> I am working together with a guy from intel on it
[11:16] <nothlit> imo the combination of realism and exaggerated contrast in icons is better suited for displays with a plethora of pixels
[11:18] <nothlit> so this will go on intel laptops and maemo-like devices?
[11:19] <kwwii> right
[11:19] <troy_s> kwwii: So did they set out to do the 'hey lets do the iphone' feel?
[11:19] <kwwii> I think that all the smaller icons will be made simple 2d thingies
[11:19] <kwwii> troy_s: well, that is one of several designs we are looking into
[11:20] <troy_s> lol
[11:20] <nothlit> troy_s: did you see macslows cairo experiment implementing an iphone-lookalike?
[11:20] <kwwii> troy_s: we've done a basic maemo version, an iPhone-ish version and another based on pygment
[11:20] <troy_s> nothlit: no.  i think more people need to leave johnathon ive alone.
[11:20] <kwwii> funny you should mention him ;-)
[11:21] <troy_s> did they hire him?
[11:22] <kwwii> johnathan, you mean? not that I know of
[11:22] <kwwii> I was talking about mirko
[11:22] <troy_s> ahhh... macslow
[11:22] <kwwii> right
[11:23] <troy_s> how come that is funny?  is he working on it with you?
[11:23] <kwwii> yepp
[11:24] <kwwii> we're working on a few projects together
[11:24] <troy_s> super
[11:26] <troy_s> kwwii: Did you chat with sab at UDS much?
[11:31] <kwwii> troy_s: not too much
[11:31] <kwwii> I was busy getting new things to do
[11:31] <kwwii> in addition to the fact that I missed the first few days
[11:48] <darkmatter> hmmm... I need to redo these damnable scrollbar troughs
[11:48] <darkmatter> they are sucking something aweful
[11:48] <darkmatter> awful
[11:48] <darkmatter> *
[11:48] <troy_s> kwwii: Do you have a plan for GG yet?
[11:49] <kwwii> troy_s: still working out ideas of how to go about it
[11:49] <kwwii> deciding which baby step to take next, really
[11:57] <nothlit> troy_s: wow these logo lounge guys are quite brilliant--looking at the old articles-- i can immediately feel certain of those trends being dated....
[11:57] <troy_s> nothlit: Yes, they are on.
[11:58] <nothlit> troy_s: your darling room favorite is in one of those articles too lol :)
[11:58] <troy_s> nothlit: Engaging design requires a pretty good knowledge of outside bodies of work -- you can't jump ahead of a trend and lead if you are lost in replication and mimicry.
[11:58] <troy_s> nothlit: Darlingroom is _awsome_ design.
[11:58] <troy_s> nothlit: _awsome_
[11:58] <troy_s> nothlit: It is so tight, I can't explain.
[11:59] <troy_s> nothlit: It is extremely vocal in its communication and extremely well executed in implementation.