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MithrandirMDK: you might want to pull http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mobile/hildon-1/ubuntu/revision/tfheen%40err.no-20070514124620-1g8ub8curvba3c9w?start_revid=tfheen%40err.no-20070515135628-9qyogkww7ziss69s into upstream hildon-109:03
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mdzMithrandir: hi01:36
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Mithrandirhiya mdz01:40
mdzMithrandir: how is hildon-1 coming along?01:41
MithrandirI asked kyle to take a look at it last night, I'm not sure if he's done so yet.01:41
MithrandirI try not to NEW my own packages.01:41
mdzlet's ask someone more likely to be awake, we've no time to waste01:42
MithrandirI'll get seb to do it01:42
mdzpitti? keybuk? seb128?01:42
seb128mdz: pong01:47
Mithrandirseb128: could you please wave hildon-1 through NEW?01:47
Mithrandirif it's not too crackful for you01:48
mdzwith review of course :-)01:48
seb128looking at it now01:48
seb128mdz: of course ;)01:48
agoliveiraMithrandir: can you explain to me what you meant by that? I'm not familiar with the local jargon yet ;)01:48
Mithrandiragoliveira: crackful?  We have a bad habit of referring to various kind of unclean solutions, bugs and such as crack.01:49
Mithrandiralso excessive bling01:49
seb128Mithrandir: is that "libhildon"?01:50
seb128(there is no "hildon-1" to NEW)01:50
Mithrandirsounds right, yes.01:50
Mithrandirit's called hildon-1 in svn, so I got confused.01:50
agoliveiraMithrandir: No, sorry, I meant "wave hildon-1 through NEW?"01:51
seb128Mithrandir: hum, the source package has debian/build full01:51
seb128looks wrong to me01:51
Mithrandirseb128: ugh, yes, clean doesn't really clean properly. :-/01:52
Mithrandiragoliveira: oh, sorry.  NEW is a queue where all new packages (both source and binary) end up for a bit of manual review.01:52
seb128why is there 3 changelog?01:52
seb128(you might want to update Maintainer though that's a detail)01:53
Mithrandirsays in the header of the ChangeLog, it's from before it was renamed.01:53
seb128debian/copyright is minimalistic (no mention of who packaged it, no "On Debian GNU/Linux systems... etc"01:55
seb128Mithrandir: the package is a has no orig.tar.gz, is that on purpose?01:58
MithrandirI'm not sure where the upstream tarballs are stored; it's from an SVN snapshot01:59
agoliveiraseb128: IIRC, there's no tarballs in there :(02:01
seb128Mithrandir: 02:01
seb128$ dpkg -c libhildon1-dev_1.0.5-1ubuntu1_i386.deb | grep 1.so02:02
seb128lrwxrwxrwx root/root         0 2007-05-16 13:59 ./usr/lib/libhildon-1.so -> libhildon-1.so.0.5.002:02
seb128lrwxrwxrwx root/root         0 2007-05-16 13:59 ./usr/lib/libhildon_1.so -> libhildon-1.so02:02
seb128that's weird02:02
Mithrandirtwo copies even02:02
Mithrandiroh, no, I can't read.02:02
seb128yes, how come?02:02
seb128$ dpkg -c libhildon1_1.0.5-1ubuntu1_i386.deb | grep so02:02
seb128-rw-r--r-- root/root    330988 2007-05-16 13:59 ./usr/lib/libhildon-1.so.0.5.002:02
seb128lrwxrwxrwx root/root         0 2007-05-16 13:59 ./usr/lib/libhildon-1.so.0 -> libhildon-1.so.0.5.002:02
seb128lrwxrwxrwx root/root         0 2007-05-16 13:59 ./usr/lib/libhildon_1.so.0 -> libhildon-1.so.002:02
seb128lrwxrwxrwx root/root         0 2007-05-16 13:59 ./usr/lib/libhildon_1.so.0.0.0 -> libhildon-1.so.0.0.002:02
seb128there is one lib using -102:03
seb128and one using _102:03
Mithrandiryeah, strange, I'll fix those problems then reupload.02:03
seb128the package is a mess :/ Are the 2 libs required?02:03
seb128ok, thanks02:03
seb128the libs duplications and debian/build shipped with the source should be fixed02:03
seb128out of this the packaging is quite ugly but that's not a stopper02:04
Mithrandiryes, I agree it's ugly, but it blocks the rest of the stack.02:04
agoliveiraseb128: Don't worry. If you think this one is a mess, wait until you see the others :)02:05
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bintuthello all..02:09
seb128hi bintut02:09
agoliveirabintut: hi02:09
bintuti'm thinking of installing an embedded linux on my network appliance but i don't know what distribution to use, package management to use, etc..02:10
bintuthello seb128, agoliveira..02:10
bintuthonestly, i don't have any experience with embedded linux.. i am into big servers..02:10
bintutbut since i have a network appliance here, i want to give it a try..02:11
bintuti am thinking if it really needs to have a package management for an embedded linux installed to a network appliance02:11
bintutjust like having .deb for debian based system or .rpm for rpm based system02:12
jsgotangcoogra actually managed to install edubuntu in an intel classmate PC i guess that can be dscribed roughly as embedded as well, but on a different note02:12
bintutdoes it make sense having a package management on an embedded linux?  what is the plan for this project?02:12
=== bintut waves to jsgotangco
jsgotangcobintut: hello, how is singapore :)02:13
bintutjsgotangco: nice..02:13
bintutanyone here knows the plans for the ubuntu mobile distribution?  will you be using a package management on this distro?02:14
jsgotangcobintut: for what its worth, ubuntu embedded is starting off with hildon so it gives you a hint about package management02:14
bintutjsgotangco: what's hildon?02:15
jsgotangcomaemo's UI02:15
bintutjsgotangco: does this mean that the ubuntu mobile is targeting nokia internet tablet?02:17
agoliveirabintut: No, the idea is to use in other platforms, initially x86 btw.02:18
bintutagoliveira: ok.. i have here a via based processor network appliance..02:20
bintutagoliveira: which is an x86 machine02:21
agoliveirabintut: So should be no problem when it's done02:21
bintutagoliveira: are you using the .deb package management for the ubuntu mobile?02:21
agoliveirabintut: the packages are being created.02:22
agoliveirabintut: but as it will be a version of Ubuntu, the package management will be the same as usual.02:22
bintutagoliveira: are you using a package management for the ubuntu mobile?02:22
bintutagoliveira: ok.. so, that will be a .deb packages02:23
agoliveirabintut: Yep02:23
bintutagoliveira: basically, embedded devices runs on a read only mode.. any idea on how will the embedded devices be able to update the packages if in case there will be an update to a certain package?02:24
agoliveirabintut: this wasn't discussed yet IFAIK.02:24
bintutagoliveira: i have here a 256mb cf disk..02:25
agoliveirabintut: actually we don't have much designed yet as the project start last week only.02:25
Mithrandirone option would be to use jffs or similar and not have / be read-only.02:26
bintutagoliveira: i was also thinking of adopting the openembedded project but i was confused if i have to use a package management or not since what i think is that whenever you apply the updates to your embedded device, you have to re-flash your cfdisk02:26
agoliveirabintut: not necessarely.There's a lot of differnt ways to do it, deppending on your application.02:27
bintutbecause, even apt and it's dependencies eats disk spaces02:28
agoliveirabintut: Sure. You can also have 2 partitions, one ro and one rw just for that.02:29
bintutagoliveira: but cfdisk doesn't survive for a frequent write to it02:29
Mithrandirwith a write-levelling file system, that should not be very much of a problem.02:30
bintutunless, using a host machine with a bootstrap to build the embedded OS first then from there dd the image to a cfdisk in such a way to update the system itself02:31
agoliveiraIndeed. It's being some time that cf's have a very good MTBF02:31
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Mithrandiras long as you turn off atime and such you should be fairly good02:32
bintutanyway, i will subscribe to the mailing list to get an update to this development02:33
Mithrandirsounds good02:33
agoliveiraA few years ago there was (is?) a special kind of CF called DiskOnChip that has an special hardware-level levelling system but I think most of the cf's today have it as well.02:33
agoliveiraI still have a few around as they we used a lot on PC/104s.02:34
tuxmaniacHello gang :-)02:35
agoliveiratuxmanic: Hi02:35
=== tuxmaniac is Aanjhan working in a German MNC in INDIA as a Embedded Software developer, an ardent Ubuntu fan. Main job at workplace is to interface mobile devices with the Automotive Multimedia Devices. Hope I can contribute to this project initiated by the Ubuntu Community
Mithrandirtuxmaniac: what are you currently using for the UI layer in your work?02:40
tuxmaniacMithrandir, custom widgets02:40
tuxmaniacMithrandir, none from the FOSS world. We write widgets from scratch to suit customer requirements02:41
Mithrandirahkay, is there interest in changing that?02:42
agoliveiratuxmanic: using what as base?02:42
agoliveiratuxmanic: Ah, sorry. I meant if you use something like GTK, Qt, etc.02:42
agoliveiratuxmaniac: ...X primitives :)02:43
tuxmaniacagoliveira, no02:43
Mithrandirseb128: just uploaded a new libhildon, it should make you cry slightly less02:46
seb128Mithrandir: looking02:46
seb128Mithrandir: that one looks fine, you ship .bzr to the src though03:05
seb128Mithrandir: do you want to fix it or should I accept this version?03:05
Mithrandiryes, I noticed slightly too late, I'll try to remember next time.03:05
seb128k, I accept it then03:05
seb128Mithrandir: hum, libhildon1 Depends on osso-sounds-ui which is not available03:10
MithrandirI should fix that03:12
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MDKw 4507:42
MDKerr, sorry07:42
MDKseb128: about the hildon-1 lib mess...07:43
MDKyes, the '_' symlink is totally useless07:43
MDKunfortunately, we needed it because of certain integration issues on our side07:44
MDKyou don't want to know more ;)07:44
MDKin any case, you prolly want to remove it from your build07:44
seb128we did07:46
seb128but thanks for the information ;)07:46
ferulowell MDK you don't want to know details about our python packages :)07:46
MDKI dont ;)07:47
tkoI think you guys don't want to know about packaging :)07:49
seb128MDK: do you plan to look at what we change? or is there a place where you want to get cleanup patches, etc?07:49
MDKseb128: I'm following your bzr repos07:50
tkoseb128: is there an rss feed to subscribe to?07:51
MDKseb128: and yes, we're definitelly interested in the changes07:51
tkoMDK: packaging included? :)07:51
seb128tko: not that I know, but you can look happens in bzr ;)07:51
MDKtko: always willing to learn something new ;)07:51
tkoguess I have to do it web1.0 way then07:51
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mdztko: I thuoght there was an RSS feed available, but can't find it now that I look08:11
tkomdz: so it wasn't just me then :)08:12
tkomdz: I found the mail subscription though08:12
mdzyes, there is that08:15
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MithrandirMDK: if you're happy with just pulling patches out of our bzr branch, that's great.  If you prefer to get them some other way, tell us so we can post them to bugzilla, etc.09:53
MithrandirMDK: also, do you have release tarballs somewhere?  Having the packages be native ones is inefficient and slightly ugly.09:54
tkoMithrandir: no, we don't generally do tarball releases09:58
tkoMithrandir: it's basically just extra overhead since we need debian packages anyway09:58
Mithrandirhmkay.  It'd be nice for us, but I guess we can make do without them09:58
tkowe know, and we've been talking about doing 'real' upstream maintenance for hildon09:59
tkobut we're big and slow :)09:59
tkoin the early ages I was actually maintaining gtk 'upstream' code and the debian packaging separately and that was just painful10:00
Mithrandirdepends on your VCS, I think10:01
tkoand your debian package, I think.. gtk was in tarball + patches mode10:01
tkohct to the rescue! (?)10:02
Mithrandirtarball + patches is utterly crackful.10:03
MithrandirI'm hoping we'll have the necessary infrastructure to make working with something a bit like tarball + patches, but without the pain (basically, orig tree + feature branches + integration branch) soon10:04
tkowhen debconf was in finland there was this presentation about the hypothetical packaging tool that would do all the magic...10:05
Mithrandirthis is an implementation of something along those lines.10:05
tkooh cool. not that I'd been paying much attention but it kind of seemed to fade away10:06
Mithrandiryou were at dc5?10:06
tkoyep. I live/work close by10:07
tkoused to study at hut10:07
MithrandirI was there for NUCCC in, hmm, 2002? and then again for debconf 510:08
Mithrandirreally nice campus10:08
mdzMithrandir: unless the tarballs are large enough that repeated uploads are inconvenient, native seems like the way to go for now10:43
Mithrandirmdz: agreed, it's more of a nice to have.10:44
mdzin fact I think it's preferable to stay native if possible, since all you need is the bzr repository, no need to find and fetch the tarball in order to do an upload10:45
Mithrandirit's hardly ever impossible to stay native. :-)10:46
MithrandirI'm thinking we should avoid having the .bzr in the upload, though I'm not sure about that either.10:46
tkohow inconvient is it to have debian/ directory in upstream? I've understood it's pretty annoying in the tarball, but what about vcs?10:51
Mithrandirit matters less there, especially with bzr's good merge capabilities.10:55
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mdzMithrandir: yes, I think we should avoid .bzr in the source tarball11:20
mdzI use DEBUILD_DPKG_BUILDPACKAGE_OPTS="-i'(?:^|/).*~$|(?:^|/)\..*\.swp|DEADJOE|(?:/CVS|/RCS|/\.svn|/\.deps|\{arch\}|\.arch-ids|\.arch-inventory|\.bzr|\.bzrignore|\.shelf)(?:$|/)' -ICVS -I.svn -I\{arch\} -I.arch-ids -I.arch-inventory -I.bzr -I.bzrignore -I.shelf -uc -us"11:20
Mithrandiroh well, bedtime.  See you all on Friday since tomorrow is a doubly public holiday here in .no.11:27
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