[03:15] <Jucato> Hobbsee: added an item to the agenda, at mhb's request :)
[03:15] <Hobbsee> Jucato: :)
[03:17] <Jucato> Hobbsee: there's something I'd like to bring up/ask, but I don't know whether it's KubuntuMeeting material. thought I'd ask in here first
[03:17] <Hobbsee> the kmilo?
[03:17] <Jucato> er no. something else :)
[03:17] <Hobbsee> pretty
[03:17] <Hobbsee> shoot
[03:18] <jjesse> hello Hobbsee
[03:18] <Hobbsee> hiya jjesse
[03:18] <Jucato> I was just wondering, because for this release, a lot of users seem to be a bit disappointed that Kubuntu sort of lags behind Ubuntu in terms of new features, namely: restricted manager and the 3d effects thingy
[03:19] <ScottK> OTOH, some users (me) are pleased about it.
[03:19] <Jucato> well, I don't mind not having the 3d effects thingy personally :)
[03:20] <jjesse> you mean there is stuff in ubuntu that i'm missing by having kubuntu?
[03:20] <Jucato> well, specifically the restricted manager
[03:20] <crimsun> well, since 7.10 will likely be the last to feature KDE 3.x, I'll definitely have a PyKDE frontend for the ALSA tool
[03:20] <Hobbsee> crimsun: heh
[03:20] <Jucato> :)
[03:21] <Hobbsee> Jucato: this is true, yes.
[03:21] <ScottK> jjesse: You're missing not have to worry about deciding all the settings you can make the way you want in KDE, but not Gnome.
[03:22] <Jucato> I don't know what went behind that restricted manager app. Were Kubuntu devs left out? were there no plans to have a KDE counterpart?
[03:22] <Hobbsee> Jucato: basically requires someone to do the work - but i havent started poking people into doing it
[03:22] <Jucato> ah so manpower problem?
[03:23] <jjesse> what does restricted manager do?
[03:23] <Hobbsee> of course
[03:23] <Jucato> jjesse: like automatix :)
[03:23] <Hobbsee> Jucato: also, the fact that beryl and co sucks on ubuntu
[03:23] <jjesse> :(
[03:23] <Jucato> but at least it's official :)
[03:23] <Hobbsee> er, kubuntu
[03:23] <Jucato> yeah, but do users ever believe us? :)
[03:24] <Hobbsee> depends.  are they forums users, or other users?
[03:24] <Jucato> well, anyway, it seems to be a sort of common sentiment lately that Kubuntu is lagging behind Ubuntu in some areas.
[03:24] <Jucato> hehe #kubuntu users :0
[03:24] <Hobbsee> forums users, particularly, seem to have the idea that there are infinite devs, etc.
[03:25] <Hobbsee> just waiting to be pushed into doing something.
[03:25] <jjesse> you mean there aren't infinite debs?
[03:25] <Jucato> heh I was under the same impression when I started. I mean the being pushed to do something
[03:26] <Hobbsee> Jucato: it's kind of expected that people will push the devs into doing something, yes.  i'm no tsur ewhy
[03:26] <Hobbsee> i guess in propriatory software and whatnot, they are - by a boss
[03:27] <Jucato> yeah. the general impression is that there's "The Man" who tells devs what they should work on
[03:27] <Hobbsee> i believe "it's the woman" and that's me :P
[03:27] <Hobbsee> but yeah
[03:27] <Jucato> hehe :P
[03:28] <Jucato> heheeh :)
[03:28] <Jucato> btw, I thought that a sort of restricted manager would have been easier to do on Kubuntu because of adept_batch.
[03:28] <jjesse> i think a lot of people think there are a ton of devs doing ubuntu work and not that many people doing kubuntu work
[03:29] <Hobbsee> ah yes, i found it
[03:29] <Jucato> yes, that's another impression
[03:29] <Hobbsee> jjesse: that's true, and i think it's semi-accurate
[03:29] <jjesse> is that fixable?
[03:29] <Jucato> didn't sabdfl once said that he was planning on getting/hiring more KDE devs?
[03:31] <jjesse> hmm the "ubuntu desktop qa engineer" should work with the other gnome developers :(
[03:34] <Hobbsee> jjesse: sure.  with people doing the work :P
[03:36] <ScottK> Jucato: Don't feel helpless.  Do what you can do and let others worry the rest until you can do more.
[03:37] <Jucato> heh unfortunately the most I can do is think and poke :P
[03:37] <Hobbsee> Jucato: i wonder if you'd have the skills to port the restricted manager to qt4
[03:37] <Jucato> I don't even have qt skills yet :/
[03:37] <Jucato> this is the disadvantage of self-study... no fixed time-table
[03:37] <Hobbsee> may be a good project to learn on.  *shrug*
[03:37] <Hobbsee> indeed.
[03:39] <Jucato> heh I'm also quite undecided whether I should study Qt3/KDE3 first or Qt4/KDE4 :/
[03:40] <crimsun> depends.  Qt3 & KDE3 aren't going to disappear.
[03:40] <Hobbsee> Jucato: i'm going with teh latter
[03:40] <Hobbsee> because all the *3 stuff will need porting
[03:40] <Jucato> yeah. and there are more docs for Qt3/KDE3, while KDE4 is still a moving target
[03:41] <Jucato> Hobbsee: hm.. won't that requrie knowing *3 stuff as well? :D
[03:41] <Hobbsee> wlel, yeah
[03:41] <crimsun> I would keep in mind that there will be 4 Kubuntu releases shipping with KDE3 by the time 7.10 has been out a couple weeks.
[03:42] <crimsun> [unless of course 7.10 will ditch KDE3 utterly] 
[03:42] <Jucato> that would probably be impossible...
[03:43] <Jucato> I dont' think we'll be able to ship with KDE 4 by default until 8.10
[03:43] <crimsun> I don't anticipate it occurring, either, but I'm obviously not a Kubuntu dev.
[03:43] <Jucato> that is, if 8.04 will be an LTS
[03:43] <Hobbsee> i cant see how we'd *not* ship kde4 by default in 8.04, even with a lts, especially if 4.1 was out, due to bugfixing not going into kde 3.5*
[03:43] <crimsun> it will be.
[03:43] <Hobbsee> 8.04 is the lts
[03:44] <Hobbsee> however, i believe you can run qt3 stuff in qt4
[03:44] <Jucato> Hobbsee: iirc Riddell mentioned that he didn't want KDE 4 on an LTS release
[03:44] <Hobbsee> this is true
[03:45] <Hobbsee> but i dont think that obsoleting oneself is terribly smart either
[03:45] <crimsun> it'll be nice to finally settle back and use KDE instead of having to fix stuff.
[03:45] <Hobbsee> i think we'd have to wait and see just how buggy, etc, it is
[03:45] <Jucato> I thought we would be releasing separate packages/CD's for KDE4?
[04:01] <ScottK> Jucato: So while you learn also work on bug triaging and other stuff you can do.  That's still a very useful contribution.
[04:02] <Jucato> ScottK: I try to do user support in between studying C++ :)
[04:02] <ScottK> That's also good.  More power to you.  I couldn't take it.
[04:02] <jjesse> or you can just pretend to do cdocumentation
[04:02] <Jucato> jjesse: oh I pretended already :)
[04:03] <Jucato> hehe I got my name in KDE's user guide lol
[04:03] <jjesse> that's better then i do
[04:03] <jjesse> i just have my name on a little book
[04:03] <Jucato> nah. that's the only place where I got my name in :)
[04:03] <jjesse> and some kubuntu docs :()
[04:03] <Jucato> well, I indirectly got into the Kubuntu docs as well... through a link :)
[04:05] <jjesse> well you could get directly into the kubuntu docs by helping write them :)
[04:05] <Jucato> yeah well... I tried... (CustomizeKubuntu)
[04:05] <Jucato> maybe writing isn't really my forte... or maybe it is and I'm just lazy :P
[04:06] <jjesse> its not an easy thing to do
[04:06] <Jucato> no kidding :)
[04:07] <Jucato> 1) you really need to know the app. 2) you need to know how to explain things correctly. 3) you need to know the doc style/guidelines :)
[04:13] <jjesse> its even worse when you are learning the doc whil you are documenting it
[04:14] <Jucato> :/
[04:14] <Jucato> I was lucky someone from KDE was kind enough to markup my plain text doc for me :)
[04:40] <yuriy> oh, so there isn't anybody yet planning on working on the restricted manager? :-\
[04:41] <yuriy> maybe i should give that a shot instead of the ltsp manager?
[05:45] <nixternal> jjesse: nice to see that Chicago domain name there :)
[05:45] <nixternal> tomorrow when I get off of the train, I will come right up the steps onto Adams, so you can wait right there
[05:45] <jjesse> nixternal: hopefully i'll be back again then :)
[05:46] <nixternal> if you go into Union, you will go nuts, that place is crazy
[05:46] <jjesse> next week it will be an ann arbor domain and then it will be omaha, followed by ohio
[05:46] <nixternal> lovely
[05:47] <jjesse> yeah any crazier then termini roma
[05:47] <jjesse> that's the main terminal for rome
[09:33] <Hobbsee> hi all
[09:33] <Hobbsee> :D
[09:33] <Jucato> quite amusing that I can still chat and wave even with a fever
[09:34] <Hobbsee> true that
[09:34] <Hobbsee> useful, though
[09:35] <Jucato> heh! imagine when I get my laptop's wireless card fixed and when I buy a router... I'll be chatting even in bed :P
[09:35] <Jucato> my laptop being a frying pan doesn't help, though...
[09:36] <Hobbsee> heh
[09:36] <Hobbsee> as long as it doesnt burn you, yes...
[11:25] <_StefanS_> Riddell: ping?
[11:33] <Tonio_> hey ;)
[11:33] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: the man I needed :)
[11:34] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: I hacked the knm gui to have LEAP in there, however what about n-m 0.6.5 which is required?
[11:35] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: backend won't really run until it is upgraded :)
[11:38] <Jucato> hi Tonio_, _StefanS_! :)
[11:38] <Riddell> hi _StefanS_
[11:39] <Jucato> moin Riddell!! :)
[11:41] <Jucato> yay for vacations! :)
[11:42] <_StefanS_> Riddell: hi, sorry for bothering you, but it was about the network-manager and bump to 0.6.5, but now Tonio_ came in, so I will just take it with him.
[11:43] <_StefanS_> Riddell: It was about the LEAP support in knm
[11:43] <Riddell> what's LEAP?
[11:43] <_StefanS_> Riddell: cisco's peap implementation
[11:44] <_StefanS_> Riddell: just simpler
[11:44] <_StefanS_> Riddell: than PEAP
[11:46] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: we need to package last NM
[11:47] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: yep, I found a post where most is already done : http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=235655&page=9
[11:47] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: I'll have time to work on the nm part next week.... not this week
[11:47] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: Maybe I should just take that as a start perhaps
[11:47] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: we'll have to package knm from svn also
[11:47] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: well thats 0.7, do we want that in feisty ?
[11:48] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: But I guess it doesn't matter, as the only thing I need is the LEAP which is available from 0.6.5 onwards
[11:50] <Lure> _StefanS_: I think LEAP went into 0.6.5, just knm (GUI part) is probably missing
[11:50] <_StefanS_> Lure: yes, thats why I just added the LEAP in the knm gui ;)
[11:50] <_StefanS_> Lure: but need the backend to support NM_LEAP for it to compile correctly
[11:50] <Lure> _StefanS_: there is discussion on knm ML about 0.2 release (soon), maybe you should check SVN and report back if it is included
[11:51] <Lure> _StefanS_: great - will you commit in KDE SVN?
[11:51] <_StefanS_> Lure: on anonsvn.kde.org it hadn't been updated for a long time
[11:51] <_StefanS_> Lure: not sure I can commit to KDE svn, but probably Riddell can help out ;)
[11:52] <Lure> _StefanS_: http://mail.kde.org/pipermail/kde-networkmanager/2007-May/000094.html
[11:52] <_StefanS_> thanks
[11:52] <_StefanS_> I was just going to ask
[11:52] <Lure> _StefanS_: best is to send patch to this thread and propose it for 0.2 inclusion
[11:53] <_StefanS_> uhm right
[11:53] <Lure> _StefanS_: if it is OK by them, I can commit to SVN
[11:54] <_StefanS_> Lure: ok, I will make my changes and get back
[11:59] <_StefanS_> Lure: I guess kde.org's svn on knetworkmanager is the one to look at. It seems like there's no such thing as LEAP there, so at least we're not doing redundant work
[11:59] <Lure> _StefanS_: yep that is it
[11:59] <Lure> _StefanS_: no changes for some time....
[11:59] <_StefanS_> Lure: kinda wierd they havent added it ?? the gnome-applet has had it for a while it seems
[12:00] <_StefanS_> Lure: maybe no one has asked about it yet... (searching the archives)
[12:00] <_StefanS_> wow thats one inactive mailinglist :)
[12:01] <Lure> _StefanS_: gnome applet gets it immediately as it is base, knm is always a bit behind
[12:01] <_StefanS_> Lure: uhm right, I see your point
[12:01] <Lure> _StefanS_: the guy who did LEAP patch did the change for applet to (afair from ML discussion)
[12:03] <_StefanS_> ah :) makes sense. I will write the mailinglist about my intentions
[12:09] <_StefanS_> Lure: I wrote the mailinglist now, so maybe there will be a reply within a few days
[12:09] <_StefanS_> Lure: continuing my quest in the meantime... :)
[12:09] <Lure> _StefanS_: good
[12:10] <_StefanS_> Lure: Basically I just said its up to them if they will accept the patches, If they dont, it may inspire them to do it their own fashion
[12:17] <gnomefreak> anyone happen to have the link to NEW query?
[12:32] <Lure> gnomefreak: queue? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+queue
[12:33] <gnomefreak> Lure: ty
[04:05] <Tonio__> re
[04:05] <Tonio__> Riddell: pig ?
[04:05] <Tonio__> s/pig/ping :)
[04:05] <Tonio__> Riddell: what is the apt daemon/process that runs the apt-get update daily ?
[04:08] <Tonio__> or any other person in fact :) not only Riddell is allowed to respond ;)
[04:08] <Jucato>  /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/15adept-periodic-update ?
[04:09] <Tonio__> Jucato: yes but which process reads this and perform the tasks ?
[04:09] <Jucato> ah
[04:09] <Tonio__> Jucato: I need the info for a doc
[04:09] <Tonio__> Jucato: I can't see any cron thing....
[04:09] <Tonio__> no init.d daemon....
[04:10] <Tonio__> Jucato: any idea ?
[04:10] <Jucato> sorry... that's as far as my limited knowledge goes :(
[04:20] <_StefanS_> Tonio__: I think they use the perl modules api for apt
[04:20] <nixternal> Riddell: I added Italian support information to support.php in my Kubuntu website branch
[04:21] <Jucato> _StefanS_: what was patched in the new logout dialog? ksmserver?
[04:29] <_StefanS_> yep
[04:32] <Jucato> thanks
[04:35] <timmay> Hey Guys.. Is there something for kubuntu that shows like a 'my computer' with all the drives and the drive space available for each?
[04:37] <timmay> I think I found one.. sorry
[04:38] <timmay> Is there anyone here working with the Lexmark driver dev kit? I would like to help on getting the X6100 series working.
[04:42] <ScottK> timmay: Unless there is something KDE specific about it, this is probably not the best place to ask that question.  I'd suggest subscribing to ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com and ask there.
[04:46] <timmay> ScottK: k, thanks
[04:46] <ScottK> No problem.
[04:56] <Tonio__> _StefanS_: cron.daily........... was so simple :-)
[05:00] <mhb> good afternoon to all you great kubuntu developers and maintainers
[05:08] <jjesse> good morning mhb
[05:10] <Tm_T> murmur
[05:10] <Tm_T> jjesse: I usually "work" in IRC or with people
[05:11] <jjesse> Tm_T: ??
[05:19] <Tm_T> you asked how I work some days ago
[05:19] <Tm_T> (with cutty network that is)
[05:20] <jjesse> oh yeah
[05:20] <jjesse> sorry haven't finished my coffee for the day :0
[05:20] <Tm_T> )(
[05:36] <manchicken> Tonio__: I have conquered the mad bacon disease!
[05:38] <Tonio__> manchicken: hey ;)
[05:40] <manchicken> Tonio__: How's your internet service?
[05:40] <manchicken> I'm in my cafe.  It's a wi-fi rollercoaster baby!
[05:41] <Tonio__> manchicken: still down
[05:42] <manchicken> Ca pu.
[05:42] <Tonio__> manchicken: looks like they have hard time finding the cause
[05:42] <Tonio__> manchicken: ca pu du cul
[05:42] <manchicken> Wow.  That's pretty smelly.
[05:42] <Tonio__> hehe
[05:43] <manchicken> I feel so much better.
[05:43] <manchicken> My foot still hurts though.
[05:43] <manchicken> The Gnash guy is trying to get me to do the Gnash KDE frontend.
[05:49] <Tonio__> manchicken: go go go !
[05:49] <Tonio__> manchicken: but do adept before :)
[05:49] <manchicken> Unless the Gnash folks want to give me a full-time job for it, I'm afraid I'm not interested.
[05:50] <manchicken> I'm a kubuntuer.
[05:50] <manchicken> brb
[06:23] <fdoving> Tonio__: hi. did you test the safely-remove thing?
[06:24] <Tonio__> fdoving: just perfect
[06:24] <Tonio__> :)
[06:24] <Tonio__> fdoving: just missing builddeps on your package !
[06:25] <Tonio__> fdoving: you don't use pbuilder
[06:26] <fdoving> Tonio__: of course i don't. it's alpha software and package.
[06:26] <fdoving> you're probably the first user, if you don't count me.
[06:26] <fdoving> :)
[06:28] <fdoving> i'll add add some build-deps then :)
[06:28] <fdoving> if it works and you're happy with it and all :)
[06:34] <Tonio__> fdoving: but to what I've seen, it is just perfect :)
[06:34] <Tonio__> fdoving: can't wait to have that in gutsy
[06:34] <fdoving> Tonio__: good, thanks for those compliments :)
[06:34] <Tonio__> fdoving: you deserve them
[06:34] <fdoving> :)
[07:22] <_StefanS_> Tonio__: hey, is that patch I submitted for ksmserver going to be out soon ?
[07:23] <_StefanS_> Tonio__: or rather, is there any update ?
[07:31] <Hobbsee> hi _StefanS_
[07:31] <_StefanS_> hey hobbs
[07:42] <Tonio__> _StefanS_: as I told you, I'm not available to commit anything this week
[07:42] <Tonio__> that'll be different next week
[07:42] <_StefanS_> Tonio__: sorry I missed that
[07:42] <Tonio__> _StefanS_: and so is Riddell :)
[07:42] <Tonio__> _StefanS_: no pb
[07:42] <_StefanS_> Tonio__: Just kinda eager to have that patch submitted.
[07:43] <_StefanS_> Tonio__: I'll just wait, and since no one it complaining I guess it is ok :)
[07:46] <Tonio__> :)
[07:46] <mhb> _StefanS_: what's that patch about?
[07:46] <mhb> Hobbsee: don't forget that it's nixternal's fault
[07:47] <_StefanS_> mhb: the localization and various other stuff in the logout
[07:50] <_StefanS_> mhb: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/21314/
[07:51] <mhb> thanks
[07:57] <nixternal> it is always my fault!
[07:58] <Hobbsee> yep
[07:58] <nixternal> what am I getting blamed for?
[07:59] <nixternal> actually, let me rephrase that
[07:59] <nixternal> what aren't I getting blamed for :)
[07:59] <nixternal> jjesse: I guess I will bring my hacktop as well
[08:20] <jjesse> nixternal: you don't have to, i will be comming from class where i have mine
[08:23] <nixternal> ok, sounds good to me
[08:25] <nixternal> jjesse: is your hotel on 111 w. adams?
[08:26] <jjesse> yes it is
[08:26] <jjesse> 111 w. adams is the address
[08:27] <jjesse> the address for training is 230 west monroe
[08:31] <nixternal> OK, if you get out of class at 4:30, you should have time to drop it off and then head tot he station. If I don't see you when I come up out of the station, I will start walking towards your hotel
[08:32] <nixternal> the train doesn't pull in until about 4:50pm anyways, and by the time I get up top, it will be about 5pm
[08:37] <manchicken> Ooh, Club Quarters!
[08:37] <manchicken> That's a nice hotel, eh?
[08:38] <jjesse> yeah it is a nice hotel
[08:38] <manchicken> It's very simple, not over-styled.
[08:39] <jjesse> manchicken: are you from the chicago area?
[08:39] <manchicken> Yeah, but I live downstate now.
[08:39] <jjesse> oh
[08:39] <manchicken> I stay at Club Quarters on business sometimes.
[08:39] <nixternal> hehe, I can get some of the Ubuntu Chicago city people to meet us down there
[08:41] <jjesse> i'm not picky :)
[08:41] <jjesse> the club quarters is fine, but parking my car is what is killing me
[08:43] <manchicken> You don't have to let them.
[08:43] <manchicken> Or you could insist on riding with them ;)
[08:43] <manchicken> What I hate about that is that there's always someone who think he's entitled to a tip just because he was dumb enough to accept a job parking cars for less than minumum wage.
[08:43] <manchicken> minimum*
[08:44] <manchicken> I had some door-to-door saleslady come by the other day trying to sell me a vacuum.
[08:44] <manchicken> She gave me this story about her boss and her quota and all this other stuff.
[08:45] <jjesse> i'm paying like $36/night
[08:45] <Hobbsee> anyone remember what the package was that had the qt breakage?
[08:45] <Hobbsee> manchicken: got a bug for you to fix...
[08:45] <manchicken> jjesse: My employer pays all of that stuff.
[08:46] <manchicken> Hobbsee: I don't "fix" bugs... I "create" bugs :)
[08:46] <Hobbsee> manchicken: system settings dies in gutsy
[08:46] <jjesse> i expense report all that stuff
[08:46] <manchicken> Hobbsee: Assign that feller to me.
[08:46] <Hobbsee> manchicken: i'll have to file it first
[08:46] <Hobbsee> mmm...expenses. should do that
[08:46] <Hobbsee> (for UDS)
[08:47] <Hobbsee> oh fricking....
[08:47] <Hobbsee> 6% [1 qt-x11-free-dbg 6291238/32.8MB 19%]                        87.8kB/s 16m21s
[08:47] <Hobbsee> was showing 21 misn a few seconds ago
[08:51] <manchicken> Yeah, do you have the link to the form?
[08:52] <Hobbsee> me?
[08:52] <Hobbsee> it was emailed
[08:52] <manchicken> Nevermind, I've got it.
[08:55] <jjesse> nixternal: i think we are working late today so i might just join you at 5
[08:59] <manchicken> There was only supper provided on the 11th, correct?
[08:59] <manchicken> My mind is mush.
[09:01] <Hobbsee> anyone else looking into polyester?
[09:07] <Hobbsee> hope not
[09:08] <toma> i'm not
[09:08] <Hobbsee> good
[09:08] <manchicken> I wish they would have sent this form out in oocalc format.
[09:08] <Hobbsee> heh
[09:09] <Hobbsee> apparently they didnt, because they're sending it to banks afterwrads
[09:09] <manchicken> Nice.
[09:19] <manchicken> Ah, but that can't be why.
[09:19] <manchicken> Because we have to sign them.
[09:19] <Hobbsee> i'm wondering how though
[09:19] <Hobbsee> unless we have to fax, or wahtever
[09:20] <manchicken> We're going to have to scan them again and email or fax.
[09:21] <Hobbsee> ....ouch
[09:22] <_StefanS_> Hobbsee: would you know about that audiocd umount bug?
[09:22] <nixternal> jjesse: works for me :)
[09:22] <Hobbsee> _StefanS_: depends which one
[09:22] <Hobbsee> manchicken: please CC me
[09:22] <_StefanS_> Hobbsee: well T0nio asked me if I could fix it
[09:23] <_StefanS_> Hobbsee: but never got a bug number or anything
[09:23] <Hobbsee> _StefanS_: ahh.  i'm suspecting there's more than one, and right nwo dont know which you're talking about
[09:23] <Hobbsee> right
[09:24] <_StefanS_> found it: I noticed that with the latest patch for clean umount dialog by frode (kdebase / kubuntu_95_safely-remove_umount_dialog.diff), there is no way to unmount an audiocd
[09:24] <Hobbsee> ahhh
[09:24] <Hobbsee> right
[09:25] <_StefanS_> (continued) the reason is that an audiocd icon on the desktop isn't using the true path, but the audiocd:/ protocol
[09:25] <_StefanS_> guess I found it myself
[09:25] <_StefanS_> :D
[09:25] <_StefanS_> I will have a look at it later on
[09:25] <Hobbsee> ahhh
[09:26] <_StefanS_> It wasn't fixed yet, right?
[09:26] <Hobbsee> no idea.  i guess i could test, though
[09:27] <_StefanS_> RIght just write me your results, I will be back to check it later
[09:27] <fdoving> _StefanS_: that patch is to be removed.
[09:27] <Hobbsee> heh
[09:28] <fdoving> _StefanS_: and it should only add an progressdialog, i do not modify the umount process iirc.
[09:29] <nixternal> jjesse: Admiral_Chicago (Freddy) is going to be joining us for some food as well. He is going to meet me at Union. And we will walk towards your hotel if you aren't there (Union) yet
[09:29] <nixternal> he knows the city which is good
[09:30] <jjesse> nixternal: awesome
[09:33] <fdoving> _StefanS_: do you even mount audiocds, ever?
[09:37] <nixternal> jjesse: have you had any Chicago style pizza since you been here? Freddy says Giordanos right next to the Sears tower is good
[09:37] <jjesse> nixternal: i haven't this trip but i've been to ginos in the past
[09:38] <nixternal> mmm ginos
[09:38] <nixternal> giordanos is good too, just a thought
[09:38] <jjesse> giordanos is fine
[09:38] <nixternal> we can make a decision once we are there
[09:38] <jjesse> ok
[09:38] <nixternal> hehe
[09:43] <Hobbsee> manchicken: no idea how to get a decent BT from system settings falling over.
[09:43] <Hobbsee> i may have the wrong debug packages, of course
[09:45] <manchicken> That's cool.
[09:45] <manchicken> :)
[09:45] <manchicken> Try compiling it manually with --enable-debug=full and then see if you can get anything from it itself.
[09:46] <Hobbsee> seeing as my gdb-foo is crap, and kcrashhandler isnt being helpful
[09:46] <Hobbsee> there's a thought
[09:46] <Hobbsee> i'll deal with polyester first, i think
[09:46] <manchicken> That's cool.
[09:46] <manchicken> With traces, some is better than nothing.
[09:46] <fdoving> _StefanS_: it's not because of my patch, the media:/ one works. problem is that kio_media_mounthelper doesn't understand how to handle audiocd:/ urls without more information. audiocd:/?device=/dev/scd0 works. and media:/scd0 works too. need to patch kdesktop to give more information.
[09:47] <Hobbsee> [Thread debugging using libthread_db enabled] 
[09:47] <Hobbsee> [New Thread -1232213792 (LWP 5166)] 
[09:47] <Hobbsee> [KCrash handler] 
[09:47] <Hobbsee> #6  0x0805bd7d in ?? ()
[09:47] <Hobbsee> #7  0x08115088 in ?? ()
[09:47] <Hobbsee> #8  0x00000000 in ?? ()
[09:47] <Hobbsee> manchicken: ^ not that, though
[09:47] <manchicken> Nope.  That's a lot of nothing :)
[09:47] <Hobbsee> :)
[09:47] <Hobbsee> exactly
[09:47] <manchicken> Quite pretty and nicely formatted nothing, but nothing none-the-less.
[09:48] <Hobbsee> hehe
[09:50] <_StefanS_> fdoving: so youre going to fix it yourself?
[09:50] <_StefanS_> fdoving: I mean that might be easier
[10:02] <fdoving> _StefanS_: feel free to do it. i can try to help you if you want me to. i
[10:45] <_StefanS_> fdoving: so I'm back from watching tv :)
[10:46] <_StefanS_> fdoving: I'm hooking up my usb cdrom to check out that thing
[10:55] <mhb> evening folks
[10:56] <Hobbsee> hiya mhb
[10:56] <_StefanS_> fdoving: ping?
[10:56] <_StefanS_> Hobbsee: do you know if the kio_media_mounthelper was backported  from kde4 svn ?
[10:57] <Hobbsee> _StefanS_: absolutely no idea
[10:57] <fdoving> _StefanS_: ack. sorry about the delay. kid woke up and all.
[10:57] <mhb> have you read E.A.Robinsons Top 10 Ubuntu Forum Feature Requests ?
[10:57] <_StefanS_> uhm no, it doesn't seem like it
[10:57] <fdoving> mhb: no, can you point me to it?
[10:57] <mhb> fdoving: it is on planet
[10:58] <_StefanS_> fdoving: thats ok ;) - my girl just had another tooth in the upper jaw, so its kinda noisy
[10:58] <mhb> I just wanted to say that I personally believe in asking users what they want, so I wondered if there is someone who knows about what Kubuntu folks want
[10:58] <_StefanS_> fdoving: now that we both have kids asleep; i looked at kdesktop source, and I'm not really sure where we should get the device from
[10:58] <Hobbsee> mhb: got a URL?  oh, planet... /me looks
[10:59] <fdoving> _StefanS_: kdesktop/kdiconview.cc is my guess.
[10:59] <_StefanS_> fdoving: thats right.
[11:00] <_StefanS_> fdoving: I meant: I see the audiocd thing, but not sure where we could get the device name from (e.g./dev/scd0)
[11:00] <fdoving> _StefanS_: remember to apply all patches before browsing it. the errors appear in the patches.
[11:00] <_StefanS_> fdoving: uhm, ok I think they're already applied
[11:01] <fdoving> ok. if you apt-get source <pkg>, they are not.
[11:01] <fdoving> so i work in a 'cdbs-edit-patch 999_hacking' env.
[11:02] <_StefanS_> fdoving: I have the source and did make -f debian/rules apply-patches
[11:02] <fdoving> ok. should be good then.
[11:02] <_StefanS_> right.
[11:03] <mhb> Hobbsee: the thing is, I would like to see a list for Kubuntu like that
[11:03] <_StefanS_> fdoving: btw, did you notice the KDE Daemon window not resizing height properly when inserting a cd ?
[11:04] <fdoving> _StefanS_: no, i did not. this is my first test: http://rafb.net/p/4L5Y8U76.html
[11:04] <mhb> people often submit bugs on LP when they feel it is critical or troublesome, but when it is a feature request they only talk about it on the forums and such
[11:06] <_StefanS_> fdoving: uhm ok, so you're sort doing trial and error on it... we should look into the code that works when the cd is inserted, it appends ?dev=/dev/scd0... there
[11:07] <fdoving> _StefanS_: exactly. but the url is reset by kdesktop, which i think is what breaks eject.
[11:08] <_StefanS_> fdoving: uhm, so it strips it out after being called.... hmmm
[11:08] <fdoving> _StefanS_: looks like that to me.
[11:09] <manchicken> OOW
[11:09] <manchicken> mhb: What's up?
[11:10] <mhb> manchicken: just wanted to ask a little about adept
[11:10] <manchicken> Sure.
[11:10] <mhb> manchicken: I have read the GutsyPlan which contains no UI changes
[11:10] <mhb> manchicken: is mornfall planning to do them?
[11:11] <manchicken> That's an excellent question.  I doubt it.
[11:11] <mhb> manchicken: or will adept stay the same? It sure is ugly as hell nowadays :o)
[11:11] <manchicken> mhb: It's art.  You're just unappreciative ;)
[11:11] <manchicken> heh
[11:11] <jjesse> manchicken: are you going to be doin adept work?  i'm trying to get a doc done for gusty so we can ship one finally
[11:12] <manchicken> I'm going to be doing the version locking stuff I think.
[11:12] <manchicken> If somebody wanted to do some UI work I could definitely mentor.
[11:12] <mhb> manchicken: I wonder how a Picasso UI would look like
[11:12] <manchicken> But my bandwidth is reduced even more now that my wife is pregnant.
[11:12] <manchicken> mhb: Wonder no longer.  Adept!
[11:13] <mhb> manchicken: I would like to participate in the visual improvements of Adept, but my timetable is pretty pregnant, too
[11:13] <manchicken> Nice.
[11:14] <mhb> manchicken: having children with Google Summer of Code is pretty time-consuming
[11:14] <jjesse> mhb: are you mentoiring SoC people?
[11:14] <mhb> jjesse: nah, being one of them
[11:14] <manchicken> jjesse: Don't know what SoC is.
[11:14] <manchicken> Ah, summer of code
[11:14] <mhb> jjesse: students
[11:15] <manchicken> mhb: Fun.  Good luck with that :)
[11:15] <_StefanS_> fdoving: well I found that bug about the resize while looking for device name... resize(400,400) ..
[11:15] <fdoving> _StefanS_: good. :)
[11:16] <fdoving> _StefanS_: i'm downloading build-deps..
[11:16] <_StefanS_> fdoving: uhm for pbuilder?
[11:16] <fdoving> for debuild.
[11:16] <_StefanS_> oh
[11:16] <fdoving> been a while since i compiled kdebase.
[11:17] <mhb> manchicken: there have been Adept UI reviews in the past, havent they?
[11:18] <fdoving> mhb: i belive there is even a plan on how to do the next one.. i've seen something about it somewhere.
[11:18] <mhb> AdeptUsability
[11:18] <mhb> just found it
[11:18] <manchicken> I believe so.
[11:18] <manchicken> Yeah, that's the fella.
[11:18] <mhb> but that was suggested for Edgy, IIRC
[11:20] <yuriy> there's the spec, and mornfall has supposedly been slowly working on adept 3.0...
[11:20] <ScottK> IMO the #1 UI usability improvment Adept could do with is speed...
[11:20] <yuriy> it would be awesome if somebody else were to work on it for gutsy though
[11:20] <mhb> yuriy: wonder how far he is
[11:21] <jjesse> is mornfall still developing?
[11:21] <jjesse> adept that is?
[11:21] <yuriy> if only i were better at c++ :-[
[11:21] <fdoving> yuriy: only one way to improve those skills. :)
[11:21] <yuriy> not sure, but he was at some point a few months ago, but not much
[11:21] <manchicken> yuriy: Nobody's _good_ at C++
[11:21] <yuriy> fdoving: i don't think adept is that way
[11:22] <fdoving> yuriy: why not? it's QT, qt is nice.
[11:22] <yuriy> yeah but there are certainly simpler qt applications
[11:22] <manchicken> adept isn't using as much Qt as it should be.
[11:22] <manchicken> It's using a lot of STL.
[11:23] <yuriy> what's stl again?
[11:23] <mhb> yuriy: or python ones :o) sorry, just having fun
[11:23] <mhb> yuriy: I always wonder how easy python-qt is
[11:23] <yuriy> very
[11:23] <mhb> yeah
[11:24] <yuriy> but i don't think having adept be in python would help the speed complaints much :P
[11:24] <manchicken> Standard Template Library.
[11:24] <manchicken> Adept is damned fast for as much data as it handles.
[11:25] <manchicken> It could be better, but GUI applications don't usually handle that much data that well.
[11:25] <mhb> well, I think synaptic is a bit faster
[11:25] <manchicken> mhb: Try searching.
[11:25] <fdoving> the auto-filter-as-you-type in the search field eats some resources.
[11:25] <mhb> I know, but if somehow feels "smoother"
[11:25] <mhb> which is important as well
[11:25] <manchicken> Sure.
[11:26] <fdoving> should be a timer, like some ms after last input in the search field, execute filtering.
[11:26] <manchicken> Synaptic isn't in Python either though.
[11:26] <Hobbsee> blerg.  i keep being told to go for core dev.
[11:26] <yuriy> but synaptic doesn't have a filter, does it?
[11:26] <yuriy> that's what annoyed me about it back when i tried it
[11:26] <jjesse> Hobbsee: you shoud.... who else is a core dev for kubuntu?
[11:26] <yuriy> you have to open up a search and stuff
[11:27] <manchicken> Yeah.
[11:27] <manchicken> No filter.
[11:27] <Hobbsee> jjesse: Ridd*ell, imbrand*on, tonio
[11:27] <Hobbsee> !grub
[11:27] <ubotu> grub is the default Ubuntu boot manager. Lost grub after installing windows: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RecoveringUbuntuAfterInstallingWindows - Making GRUB floppies & other GRUB howtos: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GrubHowto
[11:28] <jjesse> 78SE
[11:28] <jjesse> doh
[11:28] <mhb> Hobbsee: of course you should go for it!
[11:29] <manchicken> Wow, we have several features that Synaptic doesn't :)
[11:29] <mhb> Hobbsee: we need people like you, masters in the black magic of packaging
[11:29] <manchicken> One of them I implemented :)
[11:29] <Hobbsee> mhb: heh
[11:29] <Hobbsee> manchicken: woo!
[11:29] <mhb> manchicken: of course we do ... we are the superior ubuntu, you know
[11:29] <manchicken> mhb: Duh!
[11:30] <manchicken> That's why there were Ubuntu T-shirts in my size, but no Kubuntu T-shirts in my size ;)
[11:30] <Hobbsee> haha
[11:31] <mhb> manchicken: are you in contact with mornfall?
[11:31] <manchicken> Kinda.
[11:31] <manchicken> sporadically.
[11:31] <_StefanS_> fdoving: mediamanager/linuxcdpolling.cpp:585 is where the correct url comes from
[11:31] <mhb> manchicken: hmm, so you know if there will be adept 3.0 in the near future?
[11:32] <manchicken> 2.1
[11:32] <manchicken> I tried to build it and run it during UDS.
[11:32] <mhb> manchicken: with UI improvements?
[11:32] <mhb> manchicken: is it on SVN?
[11:32] <manchicken> I got it to build, but it segfaults at runtime.
[11:32] <manchicken> Yeah.
[11:32] <manchicken> With or without commit bit?
[11:33] <manchicken> err, that made no sense.
[11:33] <manchicken> Do you have a KDE svn account?
[11:33] <mhb> manchicken: yup
[11:33] <manchicken> https://svn.kde.org/home/kde/trunk/playground/sysadmin/adept
[11:34] <mhb> one minute, have to switch computers
[11:34] <manchicken> ok
[11:36] <manchicken> I hate computers.
[11:37] <manchicken> I'm gonna go be a monk.
[11:40] <manchicken> Qt's addition of qobject_cast<T>(T) is nice, but annoying.
[11:40] <ScottK> manchicken: No, too late for that.  Don't worry.  Father's of newborns don't have time to interact much with computers.
[11:40] <manchicken> It's like, you *USED* to be able to pass compatible pointers around.
[11:40] <manchicken> Now everything's freaking explicit.
[11:40] <manchicken> ScottK: Yeah, but that's not until 2008.
[11:41] <ScottK> manchicken: Pregnant wives can be labor intensive too.
[11:41] <ScottK> manchicken: Remember, sleep is for the weak.
[11:41] <manchicken> I prefer explicit casting, too, but this program just has so many different spots where you just need to stick a fscking cast around an argument in order to get the explicit keyword to stfu.
[11:42] <manchicken> ScottK: I said that a few nights ago :)
[11:42] <ScottK> That used to be our mantra when I was in the Navy.
[11:42] <manchicken> Yeah.  Then you get sleep deprived, dehydrated, and you pass out on a marble floor.
[11:43] <Hobbsee> ScottK: arent all women?
[11:43] <ScottK> There is that.
[11:43] <ScottK> manchicken: That just means not enough coffee and water.
[11:45] <fdoving> _StefanS_: getting anywhere?
[11:46] <_StefanS_> fdoving: well yes, we need medium->deviceNode(); added to the where it creates the desktop file for the audiocd, just looking where it may be
[11:47] <mhb> manchicken: got it
[11:47] <mhb> manchicken: oh, how I hate configure.in.in
[11:48] <mhb> I never understood the whole automake concept
[11:48] <manchicken> Not sure if it was a concept.
[11:48] <fdoving> _StefanS_: my guess would be kdiconview.cc:443
[11:48] <mhb> manchicken: that's why I'm coding. No trouble with packaging at all.
[11:48] <mhb> :o)
[11:48] <yuriy> mhb: port it to KDE4 and no more automake :P
[11:49] <mhb> yuriy: adept cannot be ported at this time, AFAIK
[11:49] <mhb> or can it?
[11:49] <mhb> I'm not sure
[11:49] <yuriy> i think that depends on what your definition of can is
[11:49] <mhb> but I'm not doing it anyway :o)
[11:50] <mhb> manchicken: what's the correct "open sesame" for making "configure.in.in" into "configure.in" ?
[11:50] <manchicken> Isn't there a CMakeList.txt?
[11:50] <_StefanS_> fdoving: sure looks like it :)
[11:50] <mhb> oh, that is there too, thank god
[11:51] <yuriy> is adept all qt?
[11:52] <manchicken> I forgot how differently KActions work in KDE4.
[11:52] <manchicken> And of course there's no compatibility.
[11:53] <fdoving> it's so much better now.
[11:54] <fdoving> subclassing qaction was a smart move with everything good that brings.
[11:56] <mhb> manchicken: is adept still qt3/kde3?
[11:56] <manchicken> adept2.1 looks like it may be a crack at a kde4 port.
[11:56] <manchicken> Which is good.
[11:58] <_StefanS_> fdoving: its compiling now, lets hope it does it
[11:59] <fdoving> _StefanS_: what did you add?
[12:00] <_StefanS_> fdoving: http://rafb.net/p/u33vwP74.html
[12:01] <_StefanS_> fdoving: hope it works :)
[12:01] <_StefanS_> manchicken: do you know anything about the qt4/python port of restricted drivers manager?
[12:02] <_StefanS_> manchicken: I mean, is anyone working on it ?
[12:02] <manchicken> I know we had a meeting on it.
[12:02] <_StefanS_> right.... I know that too :)
[12:02] <manchicken> I think someone did leave saying they would do it, but I don't know who.
[12:02] <_StefanS_> just wondering
[12:02] <_StefanS_> uhm ok
[12:02] <manchicken> Ridd*ell would know.
[12:02] <mhb> I might know, too
[12:02] <_StefanS_> Rudolf
[12:02] <manchicken> mhb: Showoff.
[12:02] <manchicken> :P
[12:03] <mhb> Rudolf?
[12:03] <_StefanS_> heheh
[12:03] <mhb> who's that?
[12:03] <_StefanS_> mhb: just hitting random keys on the keyboard  :) - what do you know ?
[12:03] <manchicken> I'm not sure whether or not I like how we have to create KActionCollection actions now adays...
[12:03] <mhb> from what I know, I am likely to be the one coding it
[12:04] <manchicken> _StefanS_: Did they sacrifice buffer length for that?
[12:04] <yuriy> i still can't install kde4.. get a 404 on the repo. must be something stupid
[12:05] <mhb> _StefanS_: is there something I can help you with then?
[12:05] <_StefanS_> manchicken: uhm dont know really, I was just paying attention to the (much wanted) scrolling speed
[12:05] <_StefanS_> mhb: well I was just wondering how far it is, and if you need any help with it?
[12:05] <_StefanS_> fdoving: seems like it got past my changes, gotta test within 5-10 minutes
[12:06] <mhb> _StefanS_: it should be a part of my SoC project
[12:06] <_StefanS_> mhb: ah nice
[12:06] <mhb> _StefanS_: and since it hasn't begun yet, I haven't started either :o)
[12:06] <_StefanS_> mhb: I see ;)
[12:06] <_StefanS_> mhb: when is SOC?
[12:06] <mhb> _StefanS_: I'm starting with gdebi-kde
[12:06] <manchicken> Okay, I'm gonna go chill w/wiffy.
[12:06] <manchicken> Later folks.
[12:07] <mhb> _StefanS_: then I'll be doing the restricted manager
[12:07] <mhb> _StefanS_: in a week or so
[12:07] <_StefanS_> mhb: ok, cant wait to see it :)
[12:08] <_StefanS_> I think Hopping Hippo... eh Busty Gibbons, ehm Gutsy Gibbon is going to be really nice with all those changes ahead
[12:09] <mhb> _StefanS_: it's gonna rock, no doubt about it
[12:09] <mhb> :o)