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[n=bashelie@gov91-1-82-234-91-6.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Ju` [n=Ju@AAubervilliers-153-1-38-61.w83-200.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Fujitsu [n=william@ubuntu/member/fujitsu] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Ju` is now known as Ju === pochu [n=emilio@10.Red-83-59-168.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === lbm [n=lbm@0x555373ab.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mbudde [n=mbudde@0x5733fb17.boanxx21.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === afflux [i=fnord@pentabarf.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mc44 [n=mc44@unaffiliated/mc44] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === zul [n=chuck@CPE0006258ec6c1-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === finalbeta [n=gggggggg@d54C6865D.access.telenet.be] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [01:24] @schedule sydney [01:25] Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 21 May 03:00: Xubuntu Developers | 23 May 06:00: Technical Board | 24 May 06:00: Edubuntu | 25 May 06:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 28 May 00:00: LoCo Team | 30 May 01:00: Kernel Team [01:26] that's not too early for you [01:26] sure it is [01:28] @schedule Amsterdam [01:28] Schedule for Europe/Amsterdam: 20 May 19:00: Xubuntu Developers | 22 May 22:00: Technical Board | 23 May 22:00: Edubuntu | 24 May 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 27 May 16:00: LoCo Team | 29 May 17:00: Kernel Team === jsgotangco [n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Huahua [n=hua@116.21.98.72] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === afflux [i=fnord@pentabarf.de] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] === ds500ss [n=marcel@vrs-c-16f6f.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ds500ss [n=marcel@vrs-c-16f6f.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] === zul_ [n=chuck@CPE0006258ec6c1-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === txwikinger [n=txwiking@sblug/member/txwikinger] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === okapi 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[06:04] @now [06:04] Current time in Etc/UTC: May 20 2007, 16:04:24 - Next meeting: Xubuntu Developers in 55 minutes [06:04] 55? [06:04] That's what ubotu says :) [06:04] O wait... [06:05] I always thought I was in GMT+1 [06:05] But then it turns out I'm in GMT+2 [06:05] ... [06:05] vinze: summer time? ;) [06:05] Oh that'll be it :( [06:05] :) [06:05] But does that increase GMT? [06:05] Weird.. [06:05] It does, yes. [06:06] So when summer time arrices, GMT stays the same but all timezones are +1... [06:06] Stupid >.< [06:06] Er.. no. :) [06:07] Not every country switches to daylight savings time on the same day or at the same time of day. [06:07] Ah OK [06:07] That explains [06:07] Hence: We need a measure of time that is dependable regardless of our respective time zones. [06:07] Right... [06:07] I was already wondering when I installed Feisty ;) [06:08] Even if we all switched on the same day, we all do it at 2 a.m. *local* time. When should GMT switch? [06:08] Yeah it's troublesome ;) [06:08] Precisely. :) [06:08] There's a command to print the local hour in GMT, but can't remember which :) [06:08] something -u :) [06:08] Ah doesn't matter that much ;) [06:08] pochu: date -u I guess [06:08] Yeah [06:08] stgraber: yeah, thanks :) [06:09] $ date -u [06:09] Sun May 20 16:08:55 UTC 2007 [06:09] d'oh [06:09] vinze: that may help you when you're in doubt ;) === j1mc [n=jim@adsl-70-236-118-134.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Xubuntu Developers | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 22 May 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 23 May 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 24 May 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 27 May 14:00 UTC: LoCo Team | 29 May 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team === beuno [n=martin@ubuntu/member/beuno] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === earobinson [n=_@ubuntu/member/earobinson] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [06:56] Oh, look. My clock must be off by 5 minutes :/ -- all of my clocks, lol === marseillai [n=mars@AMarseille-156-1-1-75.w90-9.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [07:00] hi all [07:00] howdy [07:00] Hiya [07:00] hey [07:01] wow, nixternal is here, too === j1mc waves === ongardie [n=nongardi@66-100-35-21-static.dsl.oplink.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [07:01] sitting here at the CoDLUG meeting :) [07:01] it is nice and quiet here today [07:01] getting some hacking done [07:01] cool. [07:01] hey [07:02] hi ongardie === Knightlust [n=Dax@ubuntu/member/knightlust] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [07:03] Is this the first xubuntu-devel meeting for Gutsy? [07:03] somerville32: yes it is [07:04] Awesome. I'm pumped. [07:04] me, too [07:05] according to the agenda at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings ... we're supposed to cover: [07:05] featureset for 7.10 [07:05] discussion of help center [07:05] ideas for 7.10 documentation (yeay!) [07:05] and ... whether or not to add a murrine gtk theme. [07:05] i am not married to this agenda, though. === j1mc added the "yeay!" at the end of the documentation note. === somerville32 is editing that wiki page. [07:06] np, somerville32 [07:07] let us know when you're done. we'll give you a few minutes. === maxamillion [n=adam@r74-192-178-37.htvlcmta01.hnvitx.tl.dh.suddenlink.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [07:09] hi maxamillion [07:09] sorry i am late [07:10] np, cody is editing the agenda on the wiki [07:10] good stuff [07:10] he'll let us know when he's done... [07:10] ok [07:11] done === grazie [n=grazie@host86-133-103-86.range86-133.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [07:11] grazie: !!! :) ... welcome to the meeting :) ... http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/898 [07:12] ok! === maxamillion checks the newly edited agenda [07:12] maxamillion: thanks...just being nosey [07:12] grazie: agenda up at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings [07:13] grazie: you should participate! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings [07:13] lol === maxamillion was too slow [07:13] i'm out at free geek chicago. ping me when discussion about documentation comes up. freddy martinez and i have a lot of ideas and such. [07:14] i don't knw much about the help center. [07:14] awesome [07:14] wait .. the help center? [07:14] maxamillion: not a slow as my new broadband(?) connection [07:14] j1mc: reading through now... === somerville32 doesn't know who added that to the agenda. === j1mc did [07:15] do we want to use it? didn't we get a working draft ready for feisty? [07:15] grazie: yeah, i am about to move into a new place in roughly 5 days and i am worried the broadband supplier there will be slow :/ [07:15] j1mc: i think you are talking about the welcome center [07:15] *centre [07:15] === j1mc goes to change wiki. is it still something we're interested in? [07:16] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Specifications/Feisty/XubuntuWelcomeCenter [07:16] somerville32: tomato, tomato .... [07:16] I question how useful it will be. === maxamillion thinks that applies better when he can verbally express each pronounciation [07:17] The welcome centre is an interesting idea but it accomplish little more then documentation does. [07:17] i think so, too [07:17] it might get in the way if auto-started [07:17] somerville32: i think it would be exponentially useful, giving first time users a quick overview of the project, and empowering them with resources they need to be aware of in order to accomplish every day tasks [07:18] aka - our documentation :P [07:18] ongardie: it would only auto-start on the first boot of a fresh install and has a check box to continue autostarting, but will always autostart on the liveCD [07:18] Developing our own application is a lot of work and overheard. [07:18] somerville32: well, yes .. that and the wiki, the forums, etc. [07:19] somerville32: but 80% of our users never look at the documentation [07:19] i don't think the app would have to be that complex, but you'd have to get good content **and** translate it === maxamillion didn't look at the documentation until he went to work on updating it [07:19] Then maybe we should find out how we can make the documentation more visible and useful to users? [07:20] somerville32: put it in the welcome center :) === maxamillion really thinks the whole docbook thing is rather useless [07:20] topic-based help is more useful than what we have in place now, though. [07:20] Maybe we should looking at removing any gnome dependencies from yelp? [07:20] maybe we can package the docs as html files and do the same thing as the welcome center, but with content we already have and through a browser that already exists [07:21] ongardie, Thats what already happens with the documentation. [07:21] ongardie: yeah, the docs just pop up in firefox atm [07:21] well, then we just need to make that more visible [07:21] Firefox is rather "big". [07:21] i think that removing the gnome deps from yelp could be useful. [07:21] somerville32: its about to get bigger [07:22] i don't see how putting the docs in a python app will improve everything [07:22] j1mc: Thats actually what I was thinking. [07:22] ongardie, I think what we want to accomplish is showing some kind of welcome documentation at boot. Firefox is for sure too heavy to be auto-started. [07:22] yelp looks an awful lot like the welcome center. :) [07:22] ongardie: the welcome center was tested on a 200mhz machine with 128mb of ram, the load time was trivial and using the app was snappy === somerville32 nods @ j1mc. [07:23] i don't know about you guys, but let's be honest: I would never open the thing and i sure as hell don't want it opening itself [07:24] a launcher on the desktop that opens a "heavy" application would suffice, in my opinion [07:24] ongardie: right, but after the first boot of a fresh installation, you can tell it to never open again [07:24] I think adding a launcher would be a good first-step. [07:24] lets be honest, the current wave of linux users is helpless and they need things shoved in their face before they have a clue what's going on [07:25] they are helpless when it comes to internals [07:25] i honestly believe most people can figure out the desktop apps without help === somerville32 nods. [07:25] ongardie: i would hope so, that is all rather straight forward [07:25] As long as we can get it all to work right out of the box :) [07:26] Windows 98's welcome centre failed horribly. [07:26] We should learn from it. [07:27] what about windows XP's tour? they really made a mistake having that thing run without accelerated video drivers [07:27] heh [07:27] hehe [07:27] I think we should ditch the welcome centre project. [07:27] The other buntus do not have things auto-loading like that. [07:27] anyone seen Vista's automated garbage? [07:28] somerville32: no, but the ubuntu welcome center has been in the works for some time now [07:28] maxamillion: you mean the whole OS vista? :) [07:28] maxamillion, And when it gets released, we can simply use that instead of developing our own. [07:28] j1mc: heh ... no joke, i am tired of fixing that OS at work [07:28] somerville32: when what gets released? [07:28] somerville32: and all the annoying gnome dependencies that come with ..... [07:28] j1mc: the ubuntu welcome center [07:29] i think the welcome center effort would be better placed in 1) improving the docs, 2) making the docs easily available to new users [07:29] It is easier to get rid of gnome dependencies then developing and maintaining our own software. [07:29] 1) would removing gnome deps from yelp be difficult? and . . . [07:29] 2) would yelp lead people to our docs? [07:29] j1mc: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWelcomeCentre [07:29] ongardie, I concur. [07:30] yelp depends on libbeagle? wtf [07:30] i think their idea is bloated and overbearing and will ultimately fail .... just as microsoft's ... but our idea is simple, its just some docs that answer the most commonly asked questions [07:30] ongardie: yeah, gnome apps are cool like that [07:30] maxamillion: heh [07:30] maxamillion, If you feel strongly about this project, you can continue to develop it, package it, and get it into Universe. It is pointless to debate this at this point when the thing isn't even ready to be included. [07:31] yelp depends on firefox? [07:31] somerville32: agreed [07:31] ongardie: probably just on gecko [07:31] ongardie, Most likely for the gecko engine. [07:31] :P [07:32] oh right. i guess they still haven't properly separated the two === j1mc is glad to reach an agreement on that. === somerville32 declares the Welcome Centre dead. [07:32] the next item on the agenda is a biggie: "7.10 Documentation roadmap" [07:32] Woot woot! :) [07:32] w00t! [07:32] bleh [07:32] hehe [07:32] heh [07:33] i'm excited about creating topic-based help for xubuntu. [07:33] i can't stand writing docs, xml seems retarded to me [07:33] Who were the individuals that were really interested in helping with documentation? [07:33] me and freddie martinez === _grazie [n=grazie@host86-133-103-86.range86-133.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [07:33] There was another fellow. [07:34] (i'm going to eat lunch, but i'll be back) === _grazie is now known as grazie === vinze [n=vinze@a80-126-159-235.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === j1mc is not sure [07:34] Here I am :D [07:34] What's the current subject? [07:34] Documentation [07:34] hi vinze ... talking aboug docs [07:35] K [07:35] somerville32: perhaps it was vincent? [07:35] Ok, there seems to be an xubuntu-doc team [07:36] who is in it? === maxamillion might be [07:36] yup, sure am [07:37] is there an editor i can use to exit the docs without having to traverse through xml? === maxamillion finds xml as annoying as html [07:37] https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-doc [07:37] maxamillion, Yes. [07:38] somerville32: awesome [07:38] what is it? [07:38] There a few different ones. You'll need to refer to wiki docs [07:38] As for documentation, wasn't there someone who agreed to head that up? === j1mc and freddie? [07:39] Awesome! :) [07:39] j1mc: Tell us what you have planned. [07:40] yes, we are excited about this. we're planning on having weekly in-person doc-hacking sessions this summer to completely update xubuntu-docs [07:40] we plan to get things in line with topic-based help [07:40] we are both part of the chicago-loco team, along with nixternal who does a ton of work for kubuntu docs === somerville32 nods. [07:41] Any plans on updating the stylesheet? [07:41] in terms of other specifics at the moment, we don't have much. [07:41] hadn't thought to update the style sheet yet, but that would be a good idea. [07:41] perhaps use some css from the soon-to-be updated xubuntu website? [07:42] somehow? /me is not a css expert [07:42] I would speak with TheSheep. [07:42] It doesn't look too complicated [07:42] but something more appealing would be nice. [07:42] agreed. === juliux [n=juliux@ubuntu/member/juliux] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [07:42] Yeah, it's kinda... Gray === somerville32 nods sadly. [07:43] I think it would be wise to have an xubuntu-doc meeting [07:43] somerville32: you reference "browser" in the meeting agenda. care to elaborate? [07:43] j1mc: Same thing as in discussion about the welcome centre. === TheSheep [i=sheep@atos.wmid.amu.edu.pl] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [07:43] Firefox is big and bloated. [07:44] Having a light-weight doc browser would be useful, I think. [07:44] Maybe work with upstream? [07:44] with xfce folks? === somerville32 nods. [07:44] Gnome and KDE both have their own documentation browsers. [07:44] yelp is the one for gnome? === somerville32 nods. [07:45] and you think that removing the gnome deps would be too difficult, and would rather get something from upstream? === j1mc is just trying to clarify... === afflux [i=fnord@pentabarf.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [07:45] j1mc: We'll have to investigate. [07:46] somerville32: wouldn't just a web browser be enough? [07:46] TheSheep: Thats the question. [07:46] if we are looking at upstream, kalikiana is in the process of writing a lightweight GTK+ broswer in C using the webkit engine as opposed to gecko [07:47] there is a number of ready ones too, even including dillo [07:47] maxamillion: thanks... where can we find info on that? [07:47] Wouldn't Gecko be a safe choice in terms of website compatibility? [07:47] don't know how far upstream it will be before a stable release results, but meh [07:47] I think it would be good to have a chat with the ubuntu-doc team. [07:47] vinze: but we don;t need it for websites, and the documentation would be abviously tweaked for the browser [07:47] vinze: yes, but webkit is what the OS X safari browser runs on, its rather feature rich to be honest [07:47] Oh, you want a browser especially for docs... [07:47] oh ... === maxamillion was confused [07:48] dillo is fast a lightening but tends to get ugly sometimes. [07:49] somerville32: what do you have in mind with chatting w/ the ubuntu-doc team [07:49] I don't think installing another, lighter, web browser is a very appealing solution. [07:49] yelp uses gtkhtml2 and it's ok [07:50] j1mc: I think that they'd be able to help answer the questions we have. [07:50] ranf, what do you mean by "getting ugly"? [07:50] ok. [07:50] I think the question at the moment is: Is a documentation browser other then Firefox appealing? [07:50] will we still go with docbook.xml, though? we're just concerned about presentation, right? that's the only thing that seems to be up in the air... [07:51] But DocBook easily exports to other formats [07:51] We're for sure not moving away from DocBook. [07:52] i like the idea of having a separate app for documentation, if only because people open up a web browser and use it to start searching the web. === vinze agrees [07:52] (with somerville32) === j1mc just wanted to clarify that portion so that we could start writing... w/o concern for the final presentation. [07:52] I think you have a point j1mc but someone would need to take care of either removing gnome-deps from yelp or finding an alternative [07:53] j1mc: i agree with you on your point about the docs opening in the browser and being ignored because people want on the net === bashelie1 [n=bashelie@gov91-1-82-234-91-6.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [07:53] more modern templates (using xhtml and css) would be nice [07:53] TheSheep: yes, we agreed the current look is rather gray... :( [07:53] j1mc: I tried to make a style, but basciallly everything is hardcoded in the html === bashelier [n=bashelie@gov91-1-82-234-91-6.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [07:54] joy [07:55] TheSheep: yesss! hardcoded into html is ... awesome. :) [07:56] I hope [07:56] awesome like a stroke [07:56] yes... sarcasm. :) [07:56] You "compile" the docbook into html. [07:57] somerville32: yes, we just need to use different templates [07:57] ... i'm sure that things will come up as we develop the new set of documentation, but we'll make the process as transparent as possible. [07:57] and we have good resources with nixternal and others. [07:58] i am confortable with the writing aspect, but... is there someone who would like to take on the application/presentation part? === blenderhead001 [n=blenderh@adsl-068-209-133-121.sip.jax.bellsouth.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [07:58] ... would like to head that up? === maxamillion is scared to volunteer ... [07:59] is it something we could push out to the mailing list to seek help with? [07:59] ... if no one here wants to take it up now? [07:59] I'm afraid there won't be many volunteers [07:59] Nah [08:00] hmmm... would it be a big problem to use yelp as-is, seeing as people don't open up the docs all that often? === somerville32 is on the phone. [08:01] would the gnome deps be a big issue? === doko_ [n=doko@dslb-088-074-023-229.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [08:01] yes [08:01] I think most people aren't even aware of the docs [08:02] if it's going to be a big problem with getting a separate app, i say we just stick with having them in firefox for now. [08:02] Yeah I guess so [08:03] maybe a nicer stylesheet will encourage people to use them. :) [08:03] Yeah I hope so :D [08:03] Same goes for the default homepage [08:04] ok. let's go with that for now unless someone objects. besides, our manpower could probably be put to better use in other areas that more users will appreciate. [08:05] Agreed [08:05] i am really having trouble finding anything classified as a docbook viewer other than yelp ... [08:06] i know it would be a pain, but anything think we should poll and see if the rest of the development community feels it worth while to remove yelp's gnome libs and make a yelp-gtk package in main? [08:06] it'll be a mess [08:06] Well, we'd need someone to step up and do it anyway [08:06] honnestly, going with firefox is IMO the best solution [08:08] gpocentek: my only issue with that, as j1mc stated, is that if the docs pop up in firefox i think majority of people would ignore them because they now have a browser infront of them and they will proceed to google or otherwise [08:08] maxamillion: maybe we could set it up so that firefox launches a special instance w/o the navigation buttons, links toolbar, etc. ... [08:08] j1mc: oooo, that's an idea === BuffaloSoldier [n=firdaus@ubuntu/member/BuffaloSoldier] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [08:08] now we need a xul programmer instead of a C programmer [08:09] lol [08:09] that will be harder to find [08:09] Wouldn't there be a special mode? [08:09] freddy martinez (aka Admiral_Chicago) is also on the mozilla team. i was thinking that there was a special mode or something. [08:09] i'm sure we could at least find out. [08:09] Or perhaps do some "firefox --new-tab "javascript:popup" blabla [08:10] Or I guess without the "--new-tab" [08:10] i'll check on that... it sounds like a good compromise if we don't need an xul developer (or whatever) [08:10] j1mc: we could make a 'documentation' profile under firefox and have the docs open firefox with that profile using some custom settings [08:11] maxamillion: good idea. again, i'll check into it with freddy. [08:11] okies [08:11] :) yeay! [08:11] brb [08:11] K === ranf expected more options from "firefox --help" [08:12] They're not all I think [08:12] moving on to feature considerations, then? [08:12] Guess so [08:13] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings (for those who joined late) [08:13] The Welcome Center [08:13] ^^ our agenda [08:13] O wait [08:13] Sorry [08:13] Murrine [08:13] did you add that to the agenda, vinze? [08:13] Erm, yes, think so [08:13] Mainly because we still didn't use Murrine for Feisty [08:14] ok. what are you thinking? (btw, we have ~45 minutes left in the meeting) [08:14] Well... That we did use Murrine for Gutsy :P [08:14] ok. i know that jmak already had some theme ideas for gutsy, so you may want to talk with him early in the process. [08:15] Well, I suppose he has ideas for themes, but they just need to be implemented [08:15] I don't like his choices, but I think any Murrine-based theme is better than Clearlooks [08:16] it would be good to see what he has in mind. i think he was pushing for a murrine-based theme, but we just ran out of time last time. [08:16] Ah OK [08:16] Then I suppose we'll be able to make it for Gutsy [08:17] any other comments on theme stuff? i'd like to move on to stuff like network manager, games, etc. [08:17] Let's move on [08:17] ok. network manager. :) gnome's one works well in xubuntu's panel, but ... there's interest in removing the gnome libs and using for xubuntu. [08:18] noooooooo! [08:18] no? [08:18] that was an emphatic no. [08:18] heh, i think network manager is buggy [08:18] somerville32 added it to the agenda ... perhaps he'd like to say what he had in mind. [08:19] somerville32: you there? or still on the phone? === somerville32 is on the phone [08:19] (http://spuriousinterrupt.org/projects/airconfig should be pretty cool once it's ready, though) [08:19] somerville32: what do you need a phone for. we have irc. ;-) === j1mc goes to look at link [08:20] Well we *do* need WPA support ;) [08:20] Was that the project from an Xfce dev? [08:20] Anyway, if that's not ready yet I suppose it'll be more buggy than NM [08:21] vinze, Brian Tarricone [08:21] vinze: yes, Brian Tarricone is writing airconfig [08:21] K [08:21] vinze: good point. at this point, i bet it is buggier than NM [08:22] How about Wifi-radar? [08:22] http://wifi-radar.systemimager.org/ [08:22] Though it doesn't look that user-friendly [08:22] ongardie: i like how it is an xfce project, but there isn't even a release for it yet. very bleeding edge. [08:23] why not just write a gtk-only, xfce NM applet? It shouldn't be that hard. [08:23] ongardie thinks it's buggy [08:23] I don't have that much experience [08:23] it's not the front-end that i have a problem with [08:23] ongardie: nm-applet hasn't given me any trouble. [08:23] It just doesn't work for you or something? [08:24] Because you could be an exception [08:24] maybe it's just me and the people i've talked to [08:24] How many are they? [08:25] me, my bro, the entirety of #xfce-dev [08:25] and a couple guys from #ubuntu-houston, iirc [08:25] but i think a better idea is to search the forums for problems === vinze searches ubuntuforums [08:26] http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=com.ubuntu%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=hDV&q=networkmanager+problems+site%3Aubuntuforums.org&btnG=Search [08:26] someone said my name? :) [08:26] Only 163 threads [08:26] ongardie: that seems to just be the suspend/resume problem which we now have a fix for. [08:27] nixternal: just referenced you in that you would be available to help freddie and i with docs [08:27] roger [08:27] i think wifi-radar would be stellar if it offered some sort of wpa support [08:27] wifi-radar supports wpa [08:28] vinze: uh, it does? [08:28] At least, you have a WPA option === vinze installs wifi-radar === BuffaloSoldier [n=firdaus@ubuntu/member/BuffaloSoldier] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === grazie [n=grazie@host86-133-103-86.range86-133.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === earobinson [n=_@ubuntu/member/earobinson] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === beuno [n=martin@ubuntu/member/beuno] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === cyphase_ [n=cyphase@c-76-102-74-27.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === txwikinger [n=txwiking@sblug/member/txwikinger] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === finalbeta [n=gggggggg@d54C6865D.access.telenet.be] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Fujitsu [n=william@ubuntu/member/fujitsu] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === lengau_ [n=lengau@c-68-53-53-39.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Czessi [n=Czessi@dslb-088-073-045-120.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === gouki [n=gouki@ubuntu/member/gouki] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === illovae [n=illovae@unaffiliated/illovae] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === jenda [n=jenda@freenode/staff/ubuntu.member.jenda] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [08:29] maxamillion: see the web site, 2nd screenshot. there is something about WPA [08:29] But it doesn't depend on wpasupplicant... [08:29] vinze: right, but click on the WPA option, just asks for what will supply the wpa functionality [08:29] vinze: yeah... having to identify what driver to use for wpa isn't so good. [08:29] for the end-user, anyway. [08:30] Ah, that sucks === maxamillion wonders if we could specify a WPA driver in the package of the program and then make the driver a dependency of the package [08:30] You need to tell explicitly which driver you'd need [08:30] quick question: in xubuntu feisty, what tools are there? [08:30] Tools? [08:30] the advanced user who wants to use something other than a pre-select will do so if there is a pre select or not [08:30] for managing the network connections [08:30] network-admin [08:31] And a panel plugin [08:31] vinze: gnome's network-admin? [08:31] Yeah but with gnome dependencies removed [08:31] i see [08:31] vinze: what planel plugin? === BuffaloSoldier [n=firdaus@ubuntu/member/BuffaloSoldier] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === grazie [n=grazie@host86-133-103-86.range86-133.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === earobinson [n=_@ubuntu/member/earobinson] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === beuno [n=martin@ubuntu/member/beuno] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === cyphase_ [n=cyphase@c-76-102-74-27.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === txwikinger [n=txwiking@sblug/member/txwikinger] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === finalbeta [n=gggggggg@d54C6865D.access.telenet.be] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Fujitsu [n=william@ubuntu/member/fujitsu] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === lengau_ [n=lengau@c-68-53-53-39.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Czessi [n=Czessi@dslb-088-073-045-120.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === gouki [n=gouki@ubuntu/member/gouki] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === illovae [n=illovae@unaffiliated/illovae] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === jenda [n=jenda@freenode/staff/ubuntu.member.jenda] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [08:32] maxamillion: will one driver work for everyone? [08:32] "Network Monitor" [08:32] maxamillion, but that's just seeing if it's active [08:32] vinze: "Network Monitor" doesn't let you configure anything though [08:32] right [08:32] No no configuration [08:32] i like the idea of using airconfig, but don't think it's ready. in it's absence, i think it would be best to use nm-applet, and see if someone can remove the gnome-deps. [08:32] ongardie: probably not, but we could pre-select the best supported [08:33] ongardie: and then make a reference to alternatives in the docs [08:33] someone == jani :) ?? [08:33] maxamillion, best supported, wouldn't that mean "works for about 10%"? [08:33] I think once Gutsy there we'll still be using network-admin... ;-) [08:34] i think it would be worthwhile for us to install airconfig onto our test systems, and report bugs up through the xfce-bugzilla, too. [08:34] vinze: not entirely .... a wpa driver to my knowledge is just software and shouldn't matter what wifi card people have [08:34] maxamillion, ah, OK [08:34] j1mc: i will work on that with my laptop from work ... hopefully we can help along the airconfig project to be stable asap [08:35] cool, maxamillion. i'll do the same. === vinze too [08:35] we certainly can't depend on airconfig stabilizing and being perfect before gutsy, though [08:35] No I don't think so too [08:35] i think that nm-applet probably our second-best optiont, though. [08:36] ongardie: no, of course not ... this is more of an upstream goal [08:36] And if someone's to remove gnome deps from NM anyway, I guess it'd be a waste to switch to an alternative for Gutsy+1 [08:36] so, realistically then, will it be network-admin, NetworkManager, or wifi-radar for gutsy? [08:36] j1mc: but nm-applet is bloated and i think we would get a substantial amount of negative feedback because of its resource intensive nature [08:37]