[12:21] <crimsun> micahcowan: If you just provide the diff, you'll need to attach a sign-off, too.
[12:22] <micahcowan> From whom do I get that? And, if it's already been approved upstream (it hasn't, because I haven't tested yet, but it's light changes, fairly trivial)?
[12:23] <micahcowan> I do have git-core installed, but have only used it for things like fetching latest kernel sources.
[12:23] <crimsun> if you wrote the patch, you provide the sign-off
[12:24] <micahcowan> A gpg signature against the patch, then?
[12:24] <crimsun> what do you mean by "it's already been approved upstream (it hasn't, because I haven't tested yet"?
[12:25] <micahcowan> Well, what I meant, thinking that you meant I needed to get a sign-off/approval from someone else, was, "what about the case where it has been approved upstream?", even though, at this moment, such is not the case. :)
[12:25] <crimsun> if it comes from upstream, you either need to attach the sign-off, or you need to explicitly mention it in the changeset commit entry.
[12:25] <crimsun> take http://preview.tinyurl.com/3b6nqn for example.
[12:26] <leonel> is  there  a fast how to  to make  a .deb   from a  tar.gz ?
[12:26] <crimsun> in that example, the patch comes from upstream, so I mention the author (Takashi)
[12:26] <crimsun> leonel: see the Packaging Guide and the Debian New Maintainer's Guide
[12:26] <leonel> crimsun: thanks   
[12:27] <crimsun> the sign-off is required for any patch touching kernel source (Linus's policy to which we adhere)
[12:28] <micahcowan> I'm not familiar with that. Alrighty, then, assuming I've just got a vanilla patch, what would be the process I need to follow?
[12:28] <micahcowan> (a vanilla patch, and git-core :) )
[12:28] <crimsun> first, create a separate branch from master
[12:29] <crimsun> I'd run ``git pull'' while in master, first, to make sure you're current
[12:29] <micahcowan> Ah. Well, I've only ever pulled from upstream. Where do I need to pull from to get Ubuntu's?
[12:29] <crimsun> then you can ``git checkout -b your-branch''
[12:30] <crimsun> ok, I think you'll want to read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelGitGuide , then.
[12:31] <micahcowan> crimsun, I need to actually clone the repository, then?
[12:31] <crimsun> yes.
[12:32] <Hobbsee> hi crimsun 
[12:33] <crimsun> hi Hobbsee.
[12:33] <crimsun> dang, Creative sucks.
[12:34] <crimsun> /* Sound Blaster X-Fi Extreme Audio. This does not have an AC97. 53SB079000000 */  /* It is really just a normal SB Live 24bit. */
[12:37] <persia> Is it just me, or does dbus fail to purge for others as well?
[12:38] <micahcowan> crimsun, okay, so once the pull is done, I'll run the checkout -b, make my changes, and then what do I run to commit to my local repo's branch (sorry, I'm git-ignorant)?
[12:38] <micahcowan> s/pull is done/clone is done/
[12:39] <crimsun> micahcowan: git-update-index <relative paths>
[12:39] <crimsun> micahcowan: then, git-commit -e
[12:40] <crimsun> micahcowan: then, git-format-patch -o ~ master
[12:40] <micahcowan> crimsun, is git-update-index the equiv of "svn add", etc? I shouldn't need that, then: just mods of existing files.
[12:41] <crimsun> micahcowan: no, -update-index marks modified files for commit.  git-commit actually commits.  You're thinking of git-add.
[12:42] <micahcowan> Okay. Guess I'm used to tools that do that in one step (the marking and committing).
[12:42] <crimsun> micahcowan: the ~/0001-foo file is what you'll inlineto an email and send to kernel-team at lists dot ubuntu
[12:42] <crimsun> inline to ^
[12:42] <micahcowan> Which I should possibly join, temporarily?
[12:43] <crimsun> that would be wise, as it's moderated. :-)
[12:43] <micahcowan> Aha. :)
[12:45] <crimsun> if your changeset closes an LP bug, then you should use the Bug: # syntax
[12:46] <crimsun> e.g., http://preview.tinyurl.com/325zck
[12:48] <sladen> does that actually work now?
[12:49] <Kmos> crimsun: at changelog he can uses LP: #number
[12:49] <Kmos> launchpad will handle it
[12:49] <persia> sladen: It's best practice
[12:50] <sladen> I've been doing it for the last year, yet I haven't seen it actually work yet
[12:50] <crimsun> sladen: I've not seen it happen automatically.
[12:50] <crimsun> Kmos: even for git changesets?  We're not referring to debian/changelog entries here.
[12:52] <sladen> ^Bug: [0-9] +  has namespace issues
[12:52] <Kmos> crimsun: hmm.. sorry
[12:53] <crimsun> Last I checked for the commits being merged into Ubuntu git, Bug: # wasn't being parsed for anything special.  AFAIK it's simply a reference to a bug.
[12:53] <Kmos> they use bug #number
[12:53] <Kmos> http://kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.6/testing/ChangeLog-2.6.22-rc2
[12:53] <Kmos> like we can see here
[12:53] <sladen> crimsun: btw, saw you managed to get the Ubuntu Alsa workarounds into the latest kernel
[12:55] <micahcowan> Kmos, LP automaticall moves to Fix Released if it sees the bug # in the changelog?
[12:55] <Fujitsu> micahcowan: It will (but with LP: #123456 instead) soon.
[12:56] <micahcowan> Sweet.
[12:56] <Kmos> nice
[12:56] <Fujitsu> The Ubuntu side of things has been implemented for months.
[12:57] <Fujitsu> What's the procedure for moving things to multiverse?
[12:57] <persia> Fujitsu: Things previously in universe, or new things?
[12:57] <Fujitsu> It's currently in universe.
[12:58] <Fujitsu> I presume you file a bug and subscribe ubuntu-archive.
[12:58] <persia> I don't know then.  Perhaps ubuntu-archive?
[12:58] <Fujitsu> (ion3 is heading over there shortly)
[12:58] <crimsun> yes.  Simply ask for a demotion, and include the rationale.
[12:58] <Fujitsu> Thanks.
[12:58] <Fujitsu> I love people being over-protective of their trademarks.
[12:59] <Hobbsee> which for?
[01:00] <Fujitsu> ion3 upstream has said that nothing is allowed to be called ion3 unless it has no patches, and is the latest upstream version. Debian has complied (and so moved it to non-free).
[01:01] <LaserJock> I say some bug flames about that
[01:01] <LaserJock> *saw
[01:02] <Hobbsee> brillian
[01:02] <Hobbsee> t
[01:02] <LaserJock> anybody know if the backports policy is still that packages have to build without modification?
[01:02] <micahcowan> crimsun, should I wrap lines on my commit comment, or does it matter?
[01:05] <micahcowan> nm, I see that it becomes the literal Subject of the mail.
[01:09] <Fujitsu> Aaaaaargh, my universe bugmail folder is sort of a bit completely flooded.
[01:10] <Hobbsee> haha
[01:12] <Fujitsu> Lots and lots of apport-retracings.
[01:12] <Hobbsee> easy to filter, then
[01:12] <Fujitsu> How?
[01:13] <Hobbsee> depends on what you use for email
[01:13] <Hobbsee> but search for teh email address, or teh  [apport]  in the subject would be my suggestoin
[01:15] <Fujitsu> Unfortunately, they all come from pitti now, rather than a separate account.
[01:15] <micahcowan> crimsun, what should I do if I need to redo the commit message?
[01:15] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: ahhh
[01:16] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: then i'd filter via [apport] 
[01:16] <Hobbsee> or "needs-*-retrace" in the body
[01:16] <Hobbsee> i think i filter by the latter
[01:32] <pgquiles> I renamed the source package. How could I merge the review of the old source package (libtom0) with the new source package (libtom)?
[02:09] <Adri2000> geser: the fix for the libdts bug has just been committed (thanks bashelier)
[02:10] <Hobbsee> pgquiles: which review!
[02:10] <Hobbsee> s/!/?/
[02:11] <pgquiles> Hobbsee: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5189
[02:11] <Hobbsee> pgquiles: you cant
[02:12] <Hobbsee> pgquiles: upload the new source package, adn i'll archive that one
[02:12] <pgquiles> Hobbsee: thank you
[02:12] <pgquiles> Hobbsee: already uploaded: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5208
[02:12] <Hobbsee> cool
[02:13] <pgquiles> every point in the review is fixed now except for that "not sure that we need libc6-dev and gcc build-dependency (even versionned)" which I'm not sure what to do with
[02:14] <Hobbsee> pgquiles: does it build without those two?
[02:14] <pgquiles> Hobbsee: no, that's why I don't understand what the reviewer meant
[02:14] <LaserJock> well, aren't libc6-dev and gcc build essential
[02:15] <Fujitsu> They are.
[02:15] <LaserJock> pgquiles: build essential packages are considered a given when considering dependencies
[02:15] <pgquiles> LaserJock: oh, I didn't know
[02:15] <LaserJock> so you don't have to explictly depend on them
[02:15] <Fujitsu> We have nothing less than those versions, so they're not necessary.
[02:27] <wolfeon> hmm
[02:30] <leonel> correct me  if  I'm wrong  please 
[02:31] <micahcowan> a kernel package build requires the abifile from the previous kernel. Where can I find that?
[02:32] <leonel> I need  a package from universe  but I need the  newest package,  and that package won't make to universe  and that's fine, but I need to install that  newest package.  IF  I  do not enable  universe and install that  newer package  it should not  break any thing  right ?
[02:34] <LaserJock> leonel: well, depending on the package, you should be fine with having universe enabled
[02:35] <leonel> LaserJock: let me be more specific   I need  the newest clamav on  Dapper  and  the newest clamav on dapper can break many things  If I  get clamav from feisty   and install it  on  Dapper  backported  of course  but I have nothing else from universe installed on dapper  nothing should get break   right ?
[02:36] <leonel> let me add puctuations ..
[02:37] <Hobbsee> you may have trouble dist upgrading
[02:37] <leonel> LaserJock: let me be more specific. I need  the newest clamav on  Dapper,  and  the newest clamav on dapper can break many things on Dapper if I have universe enabled or packages from universe installed that requires Dapper's clamav.  If I  get clamav from feisty   and install it  on  Dapper  backported  of course,  but I have nothing else from universe installed on dapper  nothing should get break   right ?
[02:37] <Hobbsee> but it wont break while you're on dapper, no, due to the lack of updates
[02:37] <leonel> Hobbsee: right  
[02:37] <LaserJock> isn't clamav being updated?
[02:37] <leonel> didn't saw that
[02:37] <LaserJock> I thought we were working on a policy for that
[02:37] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: i didnt think the entire new version of it?
[02:38] <leonel> yes
[02:38] <leonel> keep always  the  newest version
[02:38] <leonel> not  patched o
[02:38] <leonel> or
[02:38] <leonel> I need the  newest
[02:38] <Fujitsu> It may be being upgraded.
[02:38] <LaserJock> I thought we were making it an exception to the "new new upstream versions" policy of SRUs
[02:38] <Fujitsu> But it's a very difficult thing to do.
[02:38] <LaserJock> keescook would know what's up
[02:39] <leonel> LaserJock: ScottK told me something  about   that 
[02:39] <LaserJock> ah
[02:39] <TheMuso> Hey all.
[02:39] <leonel> but there are other packages I need to be  the newest  
[02:40] <leonel> and  Hobbsee  hit the nail
[02:40] <leonel> dist-upgrade could  not work
[02:40] <Fujitsu> dist-upgrade probably would work.
[02:40] <leonel> and probably don't :)
[02:41] <leonel> let's work  that  new  policy of SRUs ..
[02:41] <leonel> MOTUS   thank you,  always  open to answer   you ROCK !
[02:59] <LaserJock> tritium!
[03:03] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: who's got the latest and greates mdt?
[03:04] <LaserJock> I think I merged in some stuff from you
[03:04] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: There's some Debian removals stuff in my branch as of about a month ago.
[03:04] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: we can reject stuff from linuxmint, cant we?
[03:04] <Hobbsee> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/hal/+bug/115696
[03:04] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 115696 in hal "LinuxMint 3.0 beta2 hardware information crashed onloading" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
[03:05] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: if it's a real Ubuntu bug I think we should take a stab at it
[03:05] <Fujitsu> Kill it, Hobbsee.
[03:05] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: cant really tell what hte bug even is
[03:05] <Hobbsee> if it's a display resolution issue, or what
[03:06] <LaserJock> "Non of the *buntu 7.04 will provide better than 800x600 graphics on this system."
[03:06] <Hobbsee> or the crash
[03:06] <LaserJock> that implies at least that the reporter was having issues on more than just Linux Mint
[03:06] <Hobbsee> exactly
[03:06] <Hobbsee> which is why i asked
[03:06] <LaserJock> I'd ask for more clarification maybe and specificly what happened on *buntu 
[03:07] <LaserJock> I really don't know how much Linux Mint changes things like that
[03:07] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: Can you do something about plotdrop? Once that's done (and the various syncs are processed) we have a fully up-to-date science.
[03:07] <LaserJock> yeah
[03:08] <LaserJock> I'll work on it this weekend perhaps
[03:08] <Fujitsu> Thanks.
[03:09] <Fujitsu> Looking at my MDT branch, it has various improvements that you might want (http://people.ubuntu.org.au/~fujitsu/multidistrotools)
[03:09] <TheMuso> Hey Fujitsu, LaserJock, Hobbsee.
[03:09] <LaserJock> azeem is on vacation till the 23rd so I don't have a DD to upload for me right now
[03:09] <Hobbsee> hi TheMuso 
[03:09] <LaserJock> but I'll try to get it fixed up
[03:10] <Fujitsu> The removals feature is a little, well experimental, particularly when packages have been in experimental.
[03:10] <LaserJock> ok, looks like I've already go your changes
[03:11] <LaserJock> I got packages added to ~ubuntu-tex bug contacts today
[03:11] <LaserJock> and had a talk with Norbert
[03:12] <Fujitsu> Ah, good.
[03:12] <mwolson> hmm ... how does one remove a corrupt .orig.tar.gz file from /incoming on REVU?
[03:12] <LaserJock> one asks a REVU admin to remove it ;-)
[03:12] <mwolson> could one such admin please do so?  :^)
[03:13] <mwolson> basically: remove incoming/erc*
[03:14] <mwolson> i'm still trying to figure out how to use the REVU system well
[03:14] <LaserJock> done
[03:14] <mwolson> excellent, thanks; i now have a working upload of the erc package there
[03:14] <LaserJock> the important thing is to dput the _source.changes file
[03:15] <mwolson> *nods*
[03:15] <LaserJock> that looks better :-)
[03:16] <mwolson> is the next to wait for an automated email to be sent to me?
[03:16] <mwolson> s/the next/the next step/
[03:16] <LaserJock> you won't get an email
[03:16] <LaserJock> just wait a few minutes
[03:16] <LaserJock> I think it's a 5min cron job that updates
[03:17] <mwolson> sure enough
[03:18] <LaserJock> yep, it's there
[03:22] <mwolson> from this point on, the package has to be manually approved by N number of MOTUs, right?
[03:22] <mwolson> s/package/upload/
[03:24] <LaserJock> yes, the package gets reviewed
[03:24] <LaserJock> when the package is approved by 2 MOTUs then it can be uploaded to Universe
[03:25] <mwolson> should i email ubuntu-motu with the link to the upload on REVU, or just paste that link here?
[03:28] <LaserJock> whatever you'd like :-)
[03:28] <TheMuso> I would think reviewers are on the motu reviewers mailing list
[03:29] <TheMuso> I usually find out about new packages from that list.
[03:29] <LaserJock> hmm
[03:29] <LaserJock> although we're used to having automatic mail there, but yeah, that might be a good idea
[03:31] <LaserJock> hola senor barry
[03:32] <Fujitsu> Hail bddebian.
[03:32] <bddebian> Heya gang
[03:32] <bddebian> Hi LaserJock, Fujitsu
[03:32] <pgquiles> in case somebody is bored and wants to take a look, I have uploaded what should be the 100% correct version of libtomcrypt: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5208
[03:32] <mwolson> i'll assume that posts to gmane.linux.ubuntu.motu go to that list
[03:32] <ajmitch> curses, just had a nice hard lock of the system
[03:32] <TheMuso> Lovely.
[03:33] <ajmitch> yeah, I blame the proprietary nvidia drivers
[03:33] <ajmitch> since it went funny while I was playing a game
[03:33] <Fujitsu> The nvidia drivers are known to do that.
[03:33] <Hobbsee> therefore gmaes shouldnt be played
[03:33] <Fujitsu> +1 Hobbsee.
[03:33] <Fujitsu> (hi)
[03:34] <Hobbsee> hiya
[03:36] <mwolson> ah, it was gmane.linux.ubuntu.devel.motu.reviewers that I want, apparently
[03:41] <zul_> hey
[03:42] <tritium> LaserJock!  :)
[03:43] <bddebian> Heya tritium
[03:44] <tritium> Hi there bddebian 
[03:49] <LaserJock> tritium: how's it going?
[03:50] <tritium> LaserJock: Not bad.  You?
[03:51] <LaserJock> same
[03:52] <tritium> Good.  Are you going to Ubucon-Boulder?
[03:53] <ajmitch> hi tritium 
[03:53] <tritium> Hi ajmitch :)
[03:54] <LaserJock> tritium: doubtful, I just got back from Ubuntu Education and Developer Summits in Sevilla
[03:54] <tritium> Nice!
[03:55] <LaserJock> it's still a little odd trying to explain to my boss
[03:55] <LaserJock> ;-)
[03:55] <tritium> Boss?  Are you working now?  Did you graduate?
[03:55] <ajmitch> "you do this for *free*?!"
[03:55] <tritium> lol
[03:56] <tritium> I think my excuse to my boss would be that I do it so that my brain doesn't atrophy from doing the job I do during the day ;)
[03:56] <ajmitch> heh
[03:56] <ajmitch> my boss is understanding
[03:56] <ajmitch> but my friends think I'm nuts
[03:58] <tritium> Heh, the ubiquity windows can't be resized to fit a 640x480 screen, so I have to install from the alternate CD on my mythtv box (unless I wantt to disconnect from TV)
[03:58] <tritium> ^ note to the mythbuntu folks
[03:58] <TheMuso> Fun.
[04:00] <tritium> TV supports 720p, but not until I install the nvidia drivers.
[04:00] <ajmitch> tritium: got time to be an active motu again?
[04:00] <tritium> ajmitch: I talked to crimsun about that very thing.
[04:00] <tritium> I'm going to do my best, but it's going to be a challenge.
[04:00] <ajmitch> oh good
[04:01] <tritium> Yeah, we had a nice long discussion.
[04:01] <ajmitch> we can do with every warm body we can get
[04:01] <tritium> I know.  I'm going to figure out a way.
[04:02] <tritium> me too
[04:02] <LaserJock> tritium: s/boss/advisor/
[04:02] <tritium> LaserJock: ah, okay.
[04:02] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: more active than I am
[04:03] <Fujitsu> ajmitch: Still not very active.
[04:03] <bddebian> Fujitsu: Join the club :-(
[04:06] <LaserJock> tritium: my advisor did tell me to start looking for post-docs, so that's a good sign
[04:06] <Fujitsu> reiserfs... fsck? Sounds fatal.
[04:06] <ajmitch> racarr demonstrated how great it was :)
[04:06] <pgquiles> now that I have spammed motu-reviewers with a e-mail requesting someone to review libtomcrypt, I think it's time to sleep. Please find the time to take a look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5210
[04:06] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: it was unfortunately a moment of mirth at UDS
[04:06] <Fujitsu> ajmitch: Pardon?
[04:07] <ajmitch> we were expecting a beryl demo, but got a screenful of reiserfs errors instead from racarr's laptop coming through the projector
[04:07] <Fujitsu> Oh, I see.
[04:07] <Fujitsu> Ah.
[04:07] <tritium> LaserJock: congratulations :)
[04:07] <ajmitch> LaserJock: the end is in sight, and you're still sane?
[04:07] <racarr> ajmitch: Ouch.
[04:08] <ajmitch> racarr: you enjoyed it
[04:08] <racarr> It was funny after the fact. Yes.
[04:08] <racarr> Plus. I got to ask people if they liked my ReiserFS error message verbosity demo.
[04:09] <mwolson> apparently it's possible to "double-comment" on REVU uploads by refreshing the page after making an initial comment -- sorry about that
[04:09] <TheMuso> I guess thats one thing about ext3. Its well tested.
[04:09] <Fujitsu> ajmitch: THat's quite a large filesystem you have there. I think I've got almost that much disk space around the house.
[04:09] <Fujitsu> mwolson: Unfortunately yes.
[04:10] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: just a raid array
[04:21] <LaserJock> tritium: well, it's getting there. I have some hope. Not sure about sanity though
[04:21] <LaserJock> tritium: I started an Ubuntu TeX team, btw
[04:21] <LaserJock> that might say something about the sanity ;-)
[04:22] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: remember when I did that svn checkout of debain-tex and it was 22GB?
[04:22] <tritium> LaserJock: oh, nice!  I might be interested in that!
[04:22] <LaserJock> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-tex
[04:23] <tritium> I'll check it out!
[04:24] <LaserJock> we're going from tetex->texlive 2007 in Main
[04:26] <ajmitch> yay, system is back & finally turned on cpu frequency scaling in the bios
[04:27] <ajmitch> hopefully it'll run a little cooler at times now
[04:30] <joejaxx> ah!
[04:30] <joejaxx> ajmitch: are you good with apache 1.x?
[04:31] <joejaxx> :P
[04:31] <ajmitch> heh, found this photo: http://she.geek.nz/gallery/view.php?f=/pony.jpg
[04:32] <ajmitch> or http://she.geek.nz/archives/424-taunting-Penny-day.html
[04:33] <LaserJock> haha
[04:34] <joejaxx> mwolson: :P
[04:41] <ajmitch> ah crap
[04:41] <ajmitch> 8226 messages (9 seen) for ajmitch at pop3.maxnet.co.nz (61712151 octets).
[04:41] <LaserJock> mwolson: why would you do that, Emacs is perfect ;-)
[04:41] <ajmitch> what happens when you had a broken mail setup & your isp chooses not to enforce mail limits
[04:41] <mwolson> heh
[04:41] <mwolson> too late!  :^)
[04:41] <mwolson> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-elisp
[04:42] <LaserJock> I thought there was already a lisp team
[04:42] <mwolson> i couldn't find it
[04:43] <ajmitch> https://launchpad.net/people/?name=lisp&searchfor=teamsonly
[04:43] <ajmitch> only your team
[04:44] <LaserJock> yep
[04:44] <mwolson> there's a passing mention of a Common Lisp MOTU team on the MOTU page of the wiki, but their page is blank
[04:46] <LaserJock> ah yeah
[04:47] <LaserJock> I think that is an old defunct team
[04:49] <Fujitsu> It worked, but took a while.
[04:58] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: There's a new annoyance fix in my mdt branch. patch links now link to the patch, rather than the directory.
[05:11] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: k
[05:13] <ScottK> leonel: I was talking about possible changes to how we might do clamav backports (which is new versions).  
[05:18] <LaserJock> anybody been using VirtualBox?
[05:18] <crimsun> ScottK: what is the current situation (including problems), and what do you propose?
[05:22] <StevenK> One problem is that clamav doesn't shut up when it thinks it's out of date.
[05:42] <leonel> StevenK: yes  and for end users that message  gives them panic 
[05:42] <leonel> even that for  clamav  I think  it's better to keep with the most recent version
[05:42] <Fujitsu> It'd be nice if ClamAV didn't write their software such that it was inappropriate for distributions.
[05:43] <leonel> may be because  it's not version 1 yet ?
[05:45] <StevenK> leonel: I can't see ClamAV changing their procedures just because the version they happen to release is 1.0
[05:46] <leonel> you're right
[05:47] <ScottK> crimsun: The problem is that the 0.882/4 variants we have in Dapper/Edgy are unmaintainable given our resources in Universe, but 0.90.2 cannot be backported per the regular backports policy because it breaks stuff.
[05:47] <leonel> yes I've tried that and was a no go
[05:47] <ScottK> Actually the current 0.90.2-4 from Debian can't even be backported to Feisty (not that it's necessary).
[05:48] <leonel> what I was thinking was to have in producction servers  universe  disabled
[05:48] <ScottK> crimsun: My proposal is to make a 2nd clamav source package
[05:48] <leonel> and  install from other  repo   the clamav and things backported  to dapper or  keep new  clamav  on the current  ubuntu version
[05:49] <leonel> so if there's no universe enabled  no packages would break  with the  newest  clamav 
[05:49] <leonel> but that would be for  some  ubuntu antivirus servers only 
[05:49] <ScottK> crimsun: It'd be design specifically to be backportable, but because it has a different name (I'm currently thinking clamav-alt) a user has to explicitly install it, not just have backports enabled.
[05:50] <ScottK> We could then have a page on the wiki about what was known to break/needed testing and then admins could make informed decisions.
[05:50] <leonel> ScottK: and can That clamav-alt  would be  updatable with new  tarballs  instead  patching ?
[05:51] <ScottK> leonel: No, but as long as we can keep backporting the lastest, it shouldn't matter.
[05:51] <crimsun> hmm.  Is there any way this work could be done in Debian?  Are we dealing with process issues as well?
[05:51] <ScottK> I don't think so.
[05:51] <ScottK> They don't have so many supported versions.
[05:52] <leonel> like gentoo ...
[05:52] <crimsun> ok.  So "clamav-alt" will then Conflicts clamav?
[05:52] <ScottK> leonel: If you install klamav on your desktop you can do that (it provides the functionality and I've tested it, but it's outside the packaging system).
[05:52] <crimsun> Do you plan to ask clamav to be blacklisted from future Ubuntu devel cycle autosyncs?
[05:52] <ScottK> crimsun: Conflicts/Provides, yes
[05:52] <leonel> klamav ?
[05:53] <ScottK> crimsun: It already has to be merged.
[05:53] <crimsun> ScottK: ok.  So do we plan to retain clamav source?
[05:53] <ScottK> crimsun: We'd still do the regular clamav package that would be supported per the current no breakage policy.  Alt would be for those who want that latest AV crack.
[05:54] <ScottK> crimsun: Not sure I understand the question?
[05:54] <ScottK> leonel: KDE GUI front end for clamav == klamav
[05:54] <crimsun> I think you answered it in your most recent statement
[05:54] <ScottK> OK
[05:54] <ScottK> This still needs to get fleshed out of course, but that's the basic idea.
[05:55] <leonel> ScottK: need help  to test it ?
[05:56] <ScottK> leonel: Yes, when we have such a package.
[05:56] <ScottK> We'll probably make a clamav crack test team or some such.
[05:57] <leonel> ScottK: Ok I'm in to it    I need to keep with the latest clamav  and  would be great to make it available  for all users
[05:58] <ScottK> crimsun: Comments?
[05:59] <ScottK> The alternative is to carefully test all the clamav rdepends (and there are a bunch) and backport them all at the same time.  I think that blows the backports policy even worse.
[05:59] <crimsun> ScottK: I think it's feasible, but you'll really want to test from Dapper (LTS) forward through Gutsy+1 (LTS).
[05:59] <ScottK> Yes.
[06:02] <ScottK> While I'm doing the current clamav merge, I'll see about doing a clamav-alt in parallel.  If I get something that seems reasonable, I'll upload it to REVU.
[06:03] <ScottK> Note that clamav-alt will have to go through NEW, so it'll be a while even after it's uploaded before it could be made available.
[06:08] <ScottK> leonel: Got a few minutes to run a test for me?
[06:10] <ScottK> leonel: If you have a Feisty desktop, see Bug #108612 and https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2007-May/001646.html and comment on the bug if it works/doesn't for you.
[06:10] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 108612 in pythoncad "[apport]  pythoncad crashed with ExpatError in parse()" [Medium,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/108612
[06:10] <ScottK> Anyone else too...
[06:15] <ScottK> Good night all.
[06:16] <crimsun> 'night.
[06:16] <LaserJock> night Scott
[06:17] <leonel> ScottK: I'll testit tomorrow
[06:17] <leonel> got to go too
[06:18] <leonel> good night !
[06:28] <LaserJock> hmm, so Hobbsee's got a core-dev nomination
[06:29] <ajmitch> yes
[06:30] <StevenK> And 3 fan club members.
[06:30] <LaserJock> well, I thought I was supposed to wait until after the TB decided on the "policy"
[06:30] <ajmitch> but no word from hobbsee yet
[06:30] <ajmitch> LaserJock: I'd assume so too
[06:31] <StevenK> ajmitch: She needs to reply?
[06:31] <ajmitch> StevenK: afaik it's not just a matter of people being nominated & approved for core-dev
[06:31] <ajmitch> we've never operated that way
[06:32] <StevenK> Is this actually documented anywhere? :-)
[06:32] <ajmitch> "common sense"
[06:32] <StevenK> What's that?
[06:32] <crimsun> there's no existing documentation for -core-dev nominations and MC, no.
[06:32] <ajmitch> it was never suggested to be nominations anyway, afaik
[06:33] <crimsun> AFAICT TB remains in charge of -core-dev approvals
[06:33] <ajmitch> of course
[06:33] <LaserJock> well, that's part of the issue
[06:33] <ajmitch> the motu council shouldn't be granted that power
[06:33] <LaserJock> it seems like the TB (or at least Matt) changed the process on us
[06:33] <ajmitch> yes
[06:34] <ajmitch> and it was changed to be applying by email, while getting testimonials from others
[06:34] <ajmitch> the MC just acts as a secretary & gives an opinion
[06:34] <StevenK> I don't think the MC shouldn't approve or not approve -core-dev members, but recommend people to made -core-dev
[06:34] <ajmitch> it was never suggested that the MC would approve
[06:35] <ajmitch> it was suggested that the MC pass on its recommendation
[06:35] <ajmitch> and it's a proposal still
[06:36] <StevenK> It seems Mithrandir and co preempted it.
[06:36] <cables> Someone in #ubuntu-offtopic recommended that I ask the MOTU guys about a good Python guide. Can anyone recommend one?
[06:36] <LaserJock> python in general?
[06:36] <crimsun> what level reference for Python?
[06:37] <ajmitch> StevenK: communication has never been our strong point :P
[06:37] <StevenK> ajmitch: MC, MOTU or anyone in Ubuntu? :-P
[06:37] <ajmitch> d) all of the above
[06:37] <imbrandon> heya all
[06:37] <StevenK> I thought the last one encompassed that.
[06:38] <cables> crimsun, I know some perl, but I haven't coded in a while
[06:38] <ajmitch> hi imbrandon 
[06:38] <crimsun> cables: I recommend ``aptitude install diveintopython''
[06:38] <imbrandon> cables, probably diveintopython is a good start then
[06:38] <cables> crimsun, imbrandon, someone !info diveintopython-d me in #u-offtopic, but it said for experienced programmers or something
[06:38] <imbrandon> moins ajmitch 
[06:38] <cables> !info diveintopython
[06:38] <ubotu> diveintopython: free Python book for experienced programmers. In component main, is optional. Version 5.4-2ubuntu2 (feisty), package size 340 kB, installed size 4220 kB
[06:39] <crimsun> cables: you may find http://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide/Programmers useful, too
[06:39] <cables> crimsun, thank you
[06:40] <crimsun> cables: if you prefer dead tree copies, I recommend http://www.apress.com/book/bookDisplay.html?bID=10013
[06:41] <imbrandon> dead tree copies, heheh , first i heard that
[06:41] <tonyyarusso> I heard it....and thought it was a layout style.
[06:42] <crimsun> it's a special treeview :-)
[06:42] <cables> tonyyarusso, lol, it does sound like it :)
[06:50] <TheMuso> Hey folks.
[06:50] <StevenK> But people, you can't grep dead trees!
[06:50] <TheMuso> StevenK: heh too true.
[06:53] <tonyyarusso> well, you could scan, ocr, tee, then grep
[06:54] <crimsun> http://pragmaticprogrammer.com/titles/jsaccess/index.html is an interesting title (I'm making my way through the pdf).
[06:57] <ranf> hi
[06:58] <cables> tonyyarusso, sounds real fun :)
[06:58] <imbrandon> anyone here semi experinced with software raid0 ( on ubuntu )
[07:00] <cables> Is there any advantage to apt-getting diveintopython over just viewing it on the web?
[07:01] <imbrandon> cables, offline viewing ?
[07:01] <cables> imbrandon, ok, i guess...
[07:01] <crimsun> wot?  You mean people actually unplug?!
[07:02] <cables> crimsun, only when my ISP unplugs for me :)
[07:02] <ajmitch> scary thought
[07:02] <imbrandon> crimsun, not normaly by choice hehe
[07:05] <imbrandon> hey not talking data integrity here, but if i use ext2 over ext3 will i see a diffrence in speed 
[07:05] <ajmitch> possibly, because it's not writing to the journal as well
[07:07] <ranf> imbrandon, maybe dbench is what you want?
[07:07] <imbrandon> ranf, well i'm on a livecd atm so that wont help much
[07:08] <imbrandon> i could use bonnie++ later
[07:15] <ranf> imbrandon, can't you apt-get into RAM? Haven't touched a live-CD for 2 years or so.
[07:16] <imbrandon> you can, the problem being though the hdd isnt formated/mounted, no biggie
[07:16] <imbrandon> i /could/ format it mount it, test and repeat
[07:16] <imbrandon> but thats too much trubble for the moment
[07:18] <imbrandon> brb
[07:31] <imbrandon> re
[07:33] <LaserJock> hi imbrandon 
[07:33] <imbrandon> LaserJock!!
[07:34] <imbrandon> LaserJock, i installed gnome ( ubuntu ) today , shhh
[07:34] <imbrandon> just to try it for a week or two :)
[07:38] <crimsun> imbrandon: beats running Vista as nixternal does.
[07:38] <imbrandon> crimsun, hehe
[07:39] <Zic> micahcowan: :)
[07:39] <imbrandon> hrm adding drives to a sw raid0 shouldent be this difficult
[07:39] <imbrandon> to figure out
[07:39] <crimsun> micahcowan: It's good practice to keep the line length to 72 characters, yes.  Also, if you need to fix the commit message, just git-revert the changeset, then recommit with a fixed commit message.
[07:40] <micahcowan> crimsun, yeah, I ended up taking care of it. :) Couldn't figure out how to use --amend, but reset did the job.
[07:40] <crimsun> micahcowan: (or if that latter bit is simply too much, just git-revert your git-revert, and fix the commit message there.)
[07:40] <micahcowan> Thanks so much for your help.
[07:40] <LaserJock> imbrandon: hmm, 14 pages on the forums about having a "Restricted Software" manager for mono apps :/
[07:40] <imbrandon> wha? 
[07:40] <imbrandon> people are ignorant
[07:41] <imbrandon> sometimes
[07:41] <micahcowan> only sometimes?
[07:41] <imbrandon> well if mono was restricted in anyway that would semi make sense
[07:41] <imbrandon> but its not
[07:41] <crimsun> nah.  I'm ignorant all the time.  :-)
[07:42] <imbrandon> c# and .net are a ecma standard, just because MS came up with it dosent mean its nessesarly bad 
[07:43] <imbrandon> 334 iirc
[07:43] <LaserJock> of course it's bad, it's MS ;-)
[07:44] <imbrandon> infact it wasent even all MS, HP and Intel was in on it too
[07:44] <crimsun> cue conspiracy theories!
[07:44] <imbrandon> heh
[07:44] <LaserJock> oh sweet, we also need a "preload/prelink" manager
[07:45] <imbrandon> wow , yea , we need a "manager" for everything, that makes it real user friendly, give me lots of control panels then make something akin to MMC
[07:46] <micahcowan> crimsun, hey, have a link to a good reference on creating boot ramdisks? Back in the day, I always hard-compiled in support for the essentials (my drive, filesystems, etc), so I never had to mess around with 'em.
[07:46] <crimsun> micahcowan: err, the new Debian & Ubuntu-style ones?
[07:46] <crimsun> (well, not restricted to either distro)
[07:47] <micahcowan> I really wouldn't know the difference, but yeah, that'd be a good place to start :)
[07:47] <imbrandon> initrd mkinitrd ?
[07:47] <crimsun> if so, see mkinitramfs(8)
[07:47] <micahcowan> yup
[07:48] <micahcowan> crimsun, yeah, I've read that. It didn't seem terribly informative.
[07:48] <LaserJock> ah, she's back
[07:48] <imbrandon> run
[07:49] <LaserJock> good thing I have my chainmail on
[07:50] <Hobbsee> hi all
[07:50] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: indeed. what did i miss?
[07:51] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: we were discussing your core-dev app
[07:51] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: right
[07:51] <crimsun> micahcowan: hmm, what do you seek?
[07:52] <micahcowan> A howto? :)
[07:52] <micahcowan> Or even a brief tutorial.
[07:53] <crimsun> high-level or low-level?
[07:54] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: so if i'm supposed to respond, what am i supposed to say?
[07:54] <micahcowan> crimsun, either should be fine.
[07:55] <crimsun> The overview at http://lwn.net/Articles/191004/ is nice; /usr/share/doc/initramfs-tools/examples may help, too.
[07:55] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: `Yes please'?
[07:55] <Hobbsee> right.
[07:55] <crimsun> micahcowan: /etc/initramfs-tools/ being the magic cave.
[07:56] <imbrandon> Hobbsee, `Hell yea, bout time yall reconised!" hehehe
[07:56] <Hobbsee> haha
[07:56] <AnAnt> Hello, should there be a Comment field in .desktop files ?
[07:57] <crimsun> AnAnt: it's good practice.
[07:57] <crimsun> Hobbsee: that's because no one's clear on the procedure  :-)
[07:57] <AnAnt> crimsun: what's difference between Comment & GenericName ?
[07:57] <crimsun> MC's charter doesn't cover core-dev, really, which is all but confusing
[07:57] <Hobbsee> crimsun: right.  i believe mithrandir was just actign on the info he was told in -devel
[07:58] <LaserJock> AnAnt: probably you should read the .desktop specification at freedesktop.org
[07:58] <Fujitsu> AnAnt: Comment is something like 'Convert audio files into other formats', GenericName is 'Audio Converter'
[07:59] <Fujitsu> (taken from one of my packages, of course)
[07:59] <AnAnt> ok
[07:59] <nixternal> hey! crimsun, my Vista crashed again...since you are the largest advocate and #1 employee of Microsoft, why did it happen?
[07:59] <Fujitsu> Although most packages don't have comments starting with a verb, that's what the HIG says is right.
[08:00] <crimsun> nixternal: stop trying to run Kubuntu inside of Vista.
[08:00] <Fujitsu> Ooh, nasty.
[08:00] <Hobbsee> yay, nixternal with pointy-clicky vista again!
[08:00] <nixternal> hehe
[08:00] <nixternal> NOT!
[08:01] <nixternal> plus I don't have a super computer yet, so I can't run it
[08:01] <Hobbsee> yet you're running vista, which is crashing on you, because you like all the pointy-clicky-shiny-bling.
[08:01] <nixternal> nevah!
[08:01] <Fujitsu> Hm... Does anybody know why we don't provide diffs for Packages files like Debian? Is it just that Soyuz is stupid?
[08:01] <nixternal> the only bling I have is a semi-transparent kicker
[08:02] <nixternal> http://blog.nixternal.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/yakuake.png
[08:02] <nixternal> see, that is all the bling I have
[08:04] <nixternal> Hobbsee: http://packages.qa.debian.org/k/krename/news/20070519T231711Z.html
[08:04] <nixternal> woohoo! within 24 hours it will be ready for some sync love!
[08:04] <crimsun> Fujitsu: s/is stupid/'s side hasn't been implemented yet/  IIRC
[08:05] <Hobbsee> nixternal: nice!
[08:06] <Fujitsu> crimsun: That's what they say about everything.
[08:06] <nixternal> Fujitsu: they sure do, and it keeps us content (sometimes) :)
[08:07] <minghua> but what soyuz should do if it decides to start providing Packages diffs?
[08:07] <Fujitsu> It irks me that there's no way to reduce all the waiting around for LP to grow features.
[08:07] <minghua> one diff per dinstall run?
[08:07] <minghua> (which is like, what, 48 diffs per day?)
[08:07] <Fujitsu> minghua: I guess it would have to be, but that's a lot...
[08:07] <Fujitsu> Publisher runs hourly, AFAIK.
[08:08] <Fujitsu> Still a lot.
[08:14] <imbrandon> hrm where is the option to put gnome terminal tabs at the bottom ?
[08:15] <nixternal> heh
[08:15] <nixternal> should be easier than Konsole you would thing ;)
[08:16] <nixternal> s/thing/think || stink
[08:16] <crimsun> I've not used g-t often, but I've not known about such an option.
[08:16] <nixternal> use ~tilda with Gnome, much better
[08:17] <imbrandon> hrm i always forget why i dislike gnome untill after i install it
[08:17] <imbrandon> lack of options
[08:17] <nixternal> plus the developer is a buddy in the ChiGLUG. He gets upset when I blog/talk/showoff/whatever/ about yakuake
[08:17] <nixternal> imbrandon: what? lack of options...you are kidding right ;p
[08:17] <LaserJock> imbrandon: hehe, the first thing I do in KDE is put the tabs on top ;-)
[08:18] <nixternal> hola LaserJock!
[08:18] <imbrandon> LaserJock, hehe but you CAN , heheh in gnome i dont seem to be able to
[08:18] <imbrandon> :) heheh
[08:18] <nixternal> have you had a chance to talk to Raphael at all? he bit the bullet
[08:18] <crimsun> tabs, eww.  alt+F10 !
[08:19] <nixternal> heh, split window yakuake ftw
[08:19] <imbrandon> crimsun, ^A+backspace (screen)
[08:19] <LaserJock> imbrandon: who needs options when the defaults are perfect ;-)
[08:19] <imbrandon> LaserJock, hahaha
[08:19] <nixternal> shift+left or right
[08:20] <LaserJock> imbrandon: hmm, I don't see anything either. I've never noticed since it did what I wanted
[08:20] <LaserJock> that could be annoying
[08:20] <nixternal> LaserJock: it didn't do what you wanted, it does what you want it to
[08:20] <nixternal> hrmm
[08:20] <imbrandon> Microsoft gets is own TLD ( well starts using a country code domain ) .MS
[08:20] <nixternal> strike that, it does what IT wants you to do
[08:21] <nixternal> there, now that makes it 2 different points and not just 1 reversed
[08:21] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: That's been on /. for a couple of hours now.
[08:21] <nixternal> oh Microsoft can get its own, but pr0n can't! what is this world coming to
[08:21] <LaserJock> nixternal: well no, it does what I want, but I see your point ;-)
[08:21] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, yes , yes it has ...
[08:21] <LaserJock> why in the world would it need its own
[08:22] <micahcowan> imbrandon, isn't ^A-a faster?
[08:22] <nixternal> LaserJock: makes it easier to ban *.MS now!
[08:22] <Fujitsu> nixternal: Heheheh, true.
[08:22] <micahcowan> ^A-^A, rather.
[08:22] <LaserJock> that's whta I was thinking
[08:22] <imbrandon> micahcowan, nah i use ^a + backspace ALOT
[08:22] <nixternal> that is the first things going into the proxy servers at school come Monday
[08:22] <Fujitsu> Nice, nice.
[08:22] <imbrandon> nixternal, cant, other things use .ms too
[08:22] <imbrandon> not just microsoft
[08:23] <nixternal> well, they get blocked too!
[08:23] <micahcowan> Actually, I think he's right. I think I can type backspace just faster than double-hitting the A.
[08:23] <imbrandon> hell microsoft.ms is avail for registration
[08:23] <nixternal> unless they are pr0n...can't block the students from pr0n now, they would kill me
[08:23] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: Right. Register!
[08:23] <nixternal> imbrandon: get it!
[08:23] <LaserJock> micahcowan: really?
[08:23] <nixternal> it isn't like they will buy it from you, but they will either a) steal it, or b) sue the crap out of you, beat you up, then steal it
[08:23] <micahcowan> LaserJock, yup. Looks like it'll be approved upstream, but not yet in. And I haven't done the debdiff yet (today or tomorrow).
[08:24] <crimsun> bah, just use red.
[08:24] <imbrandon> nixternal, or give me a xbox360 LOL
[08:24] <nixternal> haha
[08:24] <micahcowan> It works because screen actually understands the "activate mouse" sequence, and ignores it for non-xterms, while passing it on to connected xterms.
[08:24] <imbrandon> i still have two other domain projects i need to finish up, i should finish the google clone tonight
[08:25] <micahcowan> Can't autodetect highlight-tracking, though, so it's xterm (as opposed to xterm2) by default.
[08:25] <micahcowan> :(
[08:25] <nixternal> imbrandon: ya, it seems they may have to start giving them away now since they can't sell them
[08:25] <nixternal> our Best Buy keeps going lower and lower on them every week, yet the same huge pile is still there
[08:27] <imbrandon> hrm
[08:29] <LaserJock> hmm, I wonder what I did to tiber
[08:29] <nixternal> heh
[08:31] <LaserJock> it's been chewing on a job for ~ 2hrs
[08:35] <micahcowan> My current goal is MOTUship. What steps should I be taking, now, and when will I know I'm ready to apply?
[08:35] <Hobbsee> micahcowan: packaging, bugfixing, etc.  and when are getting the stuff consisently right, and people start making noises about you going for MOTU, as your stuff is always fine.
[08:36] <nixternal> I have been trying for over a year now...hahaha I suck!
[08:36] <crimsun> I'll address the last part of your question.  When you're comfortable taking any source package in Ubuntu universe / multiverse, pointing out its packaging flaws [and possibly picking it up for leading maintenance] , then you're ready.
[08:36] <Hobbsee> micahcowan: there's no set metric, per se, just as in ubuntu membership
[08:36] <crimsun> [That's the same answer I gave Scot.tk] 
[08:37] <Hobbsee> crimsun: what, a new one?
[08:37] <micahcowan> Hobbsee, about which I was also confused as hell :)
[08:37] <crimsun> Hobbsee: meaning a new source package?
[08:37] <Hobbsee> doesnt that require knowing every programming language in hte archive?
[08:37] <Hobbsee> yeah
[08:37] <Hobbsee> micahcowan: heh.  yeah.  it gets infinitely worse when you're actually attempting to decide memberships
[08:37] <Treenaks> Hobbsee: There are only a few families of languages :)
[08:38] <Treenaks> Hobbsee: if you know a few, you know them all, basically
[08:38] <crimsun> Hobbsee: no.  If one is comfortable knowing how to proceed with packaging or knowing when to seek assistance.
[08:38] <Hobbsee> ah right
[08:38] <Hobbsee> Treenaks: yes, and we're all mega-awesome people who know them all.  right.
[08:38] <nixternal> hey, I can do that...I know when to proceed and when to bug, err ask
[08:38] <crimsun> only the chemists with friggin laser beams.
[08:38] <nixternal> and now workign with Debian, I know how to do debian/ stuff correctly the first time now
[08:39] <micahcowan> :)
[08:39] <nixternal> only took me a 100 times to get it down to the first though
[08:39] <Treenaks> Hobbsee: Given enough time, yes ;)
[08:39] <imbrandon> nixternal, its getting close to time for you bro :)
[08:39] <Treenaks> Hobbsee: ("follow the docs")
[08:39] <Hobbsee> hehe
[08:39] <nixternal> imbrandon: this cycle most definitely
[08:39] <imbrandon> :P
[08:39] <nixternal> how many cycles have I said that though
[08:39] <nixternal> heh
[08:39] <imbrandon> 3 *cough*
[08:40] <nixternal> I was thinking 2, but umm, this would make 3
[08:40] <imbrandon> heh yup :)
[08:40] <nixternal> Edgy, Feisty....and not Gutsy (not Gusty)
[08:40] <nixternal> s/not/now
[08:40] <crimsun> persia was going on 4, so don't feel too bad.
[08:40] <nixternal> and I am actually giving a talk about packaging tomorrow...should be fun
[08:40] <imbrandon> you started with the docteam and buntudot in dapper irrc
[08:41] <nixternal> yup
[08:41] <nixternal> heh, and I was working for Microshaft at the time I started in Dapper...was actually working on it from work
[08:41] <jussi01> lol
[08:41] <imbrandon> anyhow time for a shower, bbiab
[08:41] <nixternal> but it was cool...I didn't use Microshaft at work..I had a sun box :)
[08:42] <Hobbsee> bye LaserJock!
[08:42] <micahcowan> 'night lj
[08:42] <nixternal> I am thinkin' the same...need to be up in 5 hours for Linux Fest
[08:42] <imbrandon> gnight LaserMan
[08:42] <nixternal> g'nite 'mini-me quit humping the laser'
[08:42] <Fujitsu> Night, LaserJock.
[08:43] <crimsun> 'night.
[08:45] <nixternal> http://tux500.com/geeklog/
[08:46] <nixternal> heh, the Linux car was on TV a whole 15 seconds in one shot
[08:46] <nixternal> and the entire time, they were making fun of the driver and that he qualified as the slowest car in the month of may!
[08:46] <nixternal> great advertising..
[08:47] <nixternal> but hey, there were be a few million toothless rednecks watching who don't even know what a computer is...
[08:47] <nixternal> including me
[08:47] <crimsun> you're a toothless redneck running Vista?  Impressive.
[08:48] <nixternal> yeeee'haw
[08:48] <nixternal> actually crimsun, you are in Nascar country, so you know what I am talking about ;p
[08:48] <nixternal> nevah!
[08:48] <nixternal> imbrandon: that is all you man
[08:48] <crimsun> nixternal: deep in the heart of it.
[08:49] <nixternal> I might be moving out that way within the year anyways to be closer to my daughter in southern Maryland
[08:49] <nixternal> I have always liked the carolinas *cough*and nascar*cough*
[08:49] <crimsun> really? I'm moving to D.C. in one month.
[08:49] <nixternal> orly?
[08:49] <crimsun> rly.
[08:49] <nixternal> where at?
[08:49] <crimsun> ... D.C.
[08:49] <nixternal> I used to live in D.C.
[08:49] <imbrandon> nixternal, DC aitn that big
[08:49] <imbrandon> aint*
[08:49] <nixternal> ya, NW, NE, SW, SE?
[08:50] <nixternal> definitely not the SE
[08:50] <imbrandon> cant even spell non-words, jez
[08:50] <crimsun> I'm still working on housing, never lived there before.
[08:50] <nixternal> hehe
[08:50] <nixternal> crimsun: NW and NE are your best bets
[08:50] <crimsun> good thing I don't have a S.O., cos housing is going to eat me alive.
[08:50] <nixternal> if you have to live outside of DC, pick the VA side
[08:50] <Fujitsu> crimsun: Will this mean you get faster Internet access?
[08:50] <crimsun> Fujitsu: aye.
[08:51] <nixternal> MD side From College Park counter-clockwise until you hit Alexandria or route 1 is good living
[08:51] <crimsun> nixternal: cool, thanks for the pointers.
[08:51] <imbrandon> you know whats sad, i am thinking aobut moving to north kansas city because they just put in fiber to the house , city subsidized CHEAP symetrical 30MB/s both ways only $80 a month
[08:51] <nixternal> I lived in Georgetown for a bit, on S and Wisconsin...I love D.C.
[08:52] <Fujitsu> 30MB/s... Mmmm...
[08:52] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, both ways  :)
[08:52] <nixternal> imbrandon: AT&T just finished their fiber install into our neighborhood, but they aren't saying what their master plan is yet
[08:52] <nixternal> they put up a pretty nice sized substation the past couple of weeks
[08:52] <crimsun> imbrandon: as soon as you move, they'll have it in your old neck o'the woods.
[08:52] <nixternal> haha
[08:53] <imbrandon> crimsun, maybe not, because noth KC and KC are actualy diffrent governments
[08:53] <nixternal> crimsun: if you want to have yourself a Big and Rich time, head to southern Maryland, St. Mary's County. That is where my x and daughter are. talk about toothless and keeping it in the family
[08:53] <imbrandon> north*
[08:53] <gpocentek> good morning
[08:54] <nixternal> north KC still MO?
[08:54] <imbrandon> moins
[08:54] <imbrandon> nixternal, ya
[08:54] <nixternal> heh, my buddy wants me to move to Topeka and work for whatever the electric company is there
[08:54] <imbrandon> kansas city is actualy 3 citys in one, kansas city , kansas : kansas city , mo : north kansas city , mo
[08:54] <nixternal> ahh
[08:54] <Fujitsu> What's MO?
[08:55] <imbrandon> missouri
[08:55] <nixternal> missery
[08:55] <nixternal> ;)
[08:55] <nixternal> the "oh god please don't show me" state
[08:55] <imbrandon> lol
[08:55] <imbrandon> show me 7 i'll show you 8
[08:55] <nixternal> but hey, you know your state kicks arse when the 2 biggest things it is known for is the arch and bigfoot!
[08:56] <imbrandon> haha
[08:56] <nixternal> I shouldn't talk, since Bob Chandler is a distant relative
[08:56] <imbrandon> kansas city == bbq , fountains and jazz, stl == arch and ummm nelly
[08:56] <imbrandon> lol
[08:56] <nixternal> no way...TX == bbq
[08:57] <imbrandon> tx bbq came from kc bro, look it up :)
[08:57] <nixternal> although, every now and then I do enjoy a sweet bbq sauce
[08:57] <nixternal> tx bbq == dry rubs
[08:57] <nixternal> which I have become addicted to
[08:57] <imbrandon> think about all the cattle that got herded through kc back in the day
[08:57] <nixternal> heh, and you stole them!
[08:58] <imbrandon> i think we still have the largest stockyards in the US, dunno
[08:58] <nixternal> we will teach these people a lesson, lets steal their cattle and put this sweet, hot and what in tarnation sauces all over um...mmm mmm good!
[08:58] <nixternal> damn, now I am craving bbq
[08:58] <nixternal> 2am, I should go fire up the grill
[08:58] <imbrandon> lol
[08:59] <imbrandon> we cooked some ribs and shrimp on the grill today
[08:59] <nixternal> who cares about the neighbors...they decided to mow their lawn at 7am on a Saturday
[09:03] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, ahh i was off on the prices, but its still cheap http://www.linkcity.org/residential-internet.html
[09:05] <imbrandon> and with the business class you get a SLA too :)
[09:06] <ranf> Hrm, don't get that: http://pastebin.ca/498186 line 17. When I cd into src/icons and run make it works.
[09:07] <imbrandon> ranf, because localy you probably have a required png lib installed, and in the pbuilder/control you dont
[09:07] <imbrandon> is what its looking like
[09:08] <imbrandon> brb
[09:08] <nixternal> libpng?
[09:08] <ranf> thanks, will look into that.
[09:09] <nixternal> libpng12-0 seems to be the latest
[09:12] <nixternal> g'nite
[09:12] <crimsun> 'night.
[09:15] <Hobbsee> night nixternal 
[10:08] <DarkSun88> Hi all
[10:50] <wolfeon> :)
[11:06] <ranf> pochu, am I right on this one? http://www.bughost.org/pipermail/power/2007-May/000177.html
[11:08] <pochu> ranf: yes, but I'm using 1.2.15 and have the same issue
[11:09] <pochu> ranf: I was going to tell that to the developer last night, but it was too late :)
[11:09] <ranf> pochu, no problem
[11:12] <ranf> Hrm, I still don't get that: http://pastebin.ca/498186 line 17.  Tried to document stuff: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ranf/packagingViking
[11:14] <pochu> ranf: reported :) Hopefully it'll be fixed soon in 1.2.16 :)
[11:15] <ranf> pochu, cool
[11:20] <mjgumbley> Hello MOTU, I'm new here but would like to get involved in packaging various Java applications - I'm reading through the Ubuntu packaging guide, but is there any documentation specifically on packaging Java apps?
[11:21] <geser> there is a Debian java policy: http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/java-policy/
[11:22] <persia> mjgumbley: You'd probably do best to look at the packaging of a number of existing Java apps.  The best practices are still under development.
[11:23] <crimsun> there's also #ubuntu-java.  vil, also an MOTU, is on that team, too.
[11:24] <mjgumbley> geser, persia - many thanks. I was hoping to get freemind packaged, as I use it all the time on win32.  It's under https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/102755 - hopefully if most of the work has already been done for Debian, it wouldn't be too hard to take on as a "first job"
[11:24] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 102755 in Ubuntu "please sync freemind from debian contrib" [Medium,Confirmed]  
[11:25] <mjgumbley> crimsun: thanks, I'll check that channel out too.
[11:25] <mjgumbley> ubotu: I see that it's been approved - does that mean that someone has been assigned to look at it?
[11:26] <geser> mjgumbley: ubotu is a bot :)
[11:27] <geser> it will be synced from Debian by the archive admins soon
[11:28] <persia> mjgumbley: If you want to package a new java app, there are a number listed from https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=needs-packaging.
[11:35] <ajmorris_> how close are we to getting ntlm_auth 3.0.25?
[11:38] <crimsun> ajmorris_: when core-dev has time.
[11:38] <wolfeon> *chuckle*
[11:38] <crimsun> ajmorris_: I know Andrew has been quite pressed for time, but he'll get to it.
[11:39] <wolfeon> crimsun: you could always use the flynn reply.. :)
[11:39] <crimsun> He's not a Canonical employee, so give him a break.
[11:39] <wolfeon> "send patches or stfu" :)
[11:39] <wolfeon> :P
[11:40] <sacater> i need some help, how do i stop Xserver from starting at bootup, so i start things manually, and I only get a console
[11:40] <ranf> sacater, remove gdm?
[11:40] <crimsun> look at /etc/X11/default-display-manager
[11:41] <sacater> one mo..
[11:41] <crimsun> i.e., change it to /bin/true or something.
[11:41] <sacater> /usr/sbin/gdm
[11:41] <sacater> crimsun: change that to /bin/true/
[11:42] <sacater> ?
[11:42] <mjgumbley> append init=/bin/sh to the end of your kernel line, in the GRUB menu
[11:42] <crimsun> anything but the absolute path to the current display manager.
[11:42] <sacater> crimsun: couldnt i just comment out /usr/sbin/gdm
[11:44] <sacater> crimsun?
[11:46] <crimsun> sure, whatever floats your boat.
[11:46] <sacater> right, reload time..
[11:52] <sacater> crimsun: nope, commenting it out didnt owkr
[11:52] <sacater> work*
[11:52] <sacater> oh hang on...
[11:52] <sacater> wasnt using fscking sudo
[12:05] <sacater> crimsun: that doesnt work, all my fonts go VERY WEIRD
[12:05] <pochu> ranf:  http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1717978&group_id=87005&atid=581684
[12:05] <ubotu> Sourceforge bug 1717978 "liferea keeps waking up the cpu a lot" [Pri: 5,Open fixed]  
[12:06] <pochu> heya sacater!
[12:06] <sacater> tis me!
[12:06] <sacater> pochu: dont suppose you know how to stop the xserver from starting at bootup
[12:06] <sacater> actually
[12:06] <sacater> give me 5
[12:07] <pochu> sacater: uninstall it :p
[12:07] <afflux> can someone help me with the merge of "om"? It looks quite wierd to me... The old ubuntu package uses a different tarball than the two debian packages, it seems that the last merge was using the ubuntustudio package with *some* changes merged from debian. Now we have lots of differences in e.g. the .m4 files, package descriptions, copyright file, manpages etc.
[12:08] <persia> afflux: What kind of help do you need?  Personally, for different sources, I tend to look at the diff between the last merged Debian version and the current Debian version, and pick appropriate bits of that to apply to Ubuntu.
[12:09] <crimsun> sacater: did you comment it out, or did you actually change it?
[12:09] <afflux> I wonder wether I should take the few ubuntu-changes mentioned in the changelog and add them to the debian package or do it as you just explained
[12:09] <afflux> persia: ^^
[12:09] <crimsun> sacater: (I would actually change it, or chmod -x /etc/init.d/gdm, or ...)
[12:10] <sacater> crimsun: i commented it out, and all the fonts go weird on xfce
[12:10] <sacater> crimsun: change to what
[12:10] <sacater> crimsun: /bin/true
[12:10] <sacater> ?
[12:11] <sacater> pochu: no no, i want it so i start it manually
[12:11] <crimsun> something that doesn't contain gdm in the string
[12:11] <sacater> ok
[12:11] <sacater> hang on
[12:11] <crimsun> hmm
[12:11] <sacater> /bin/true it is
[12:11] <crimsun> if you want to start it manually, then just remove the symlink in /etc/rc2.d/
[12:11] <sacater> no ya tell me..
[12:11] <sacater> now*
[12:11] <persia> afflux: It depends on the nature of the change.  For different orig sources, often that was due to an -0 upload in Ubuntu.  If you think moving closer to Debian is better, I recommend checking with the -0ubuntu1 uploader to see why they made the choices they did, and whether things can be dropped.  If the package has significant Ubuntu variation (rebranding, different behaviour, etc.), you probably just want to cherry-pick from Debian.
[12:12] <crimsun> sacater: you didn't mention that you wanted to start it manually, only that you wanted it to not start automatically.
[12:12] <crimsun> believe it or not, those are two separate use cases.
[12:12] <sacater> crimsun: i want it, so that when i boot up, i get console only, and i startx and fluxbox from there
[12:13] <crimsun> nice, 2.6.22-5.11 boots on my hardware
[12:13] <sacater> crimsun: S13gdm 
[12:13] <sacater> do i remove that?
[12:14] <crimsun> sacater: from /etc/rc2.d/ , yes
[12:14] <afflux> persia: ok, I'll have a deeper look... thank you
[12:14] <sacater> crimsun: here goes...
[12:14] <persia> afflux: Please come back if you get stuck
[12:14] <afflux> persia: I will definetly :P
[12:16] <crimsun> yay, and systemtap works again.
[12:18] <persia> afflux: Just FYI, the om -0ubuntu1 uploader has become inactive.  Try to get closer to Debian.
[12:18] <afflux> alright
[12:18] <sacater> crimsun: nope, the fonts are fscked, what about if we try just removing splash
[12:18] <sacater> crimsun: so i dont get a welcome screen, might that work
[12:18] <crimsun> sacater: what's the /root/ issue?
[12:19] <sacater> crimsun: eh?
[12:19] <crimsun> the answers I've given address not starting gdm automatically, not "*splash screws with me font appearance"
[12:19] <sacater> no no
[12:19] <sacater> it sort of worked
[12:19] <sacater> no gdm
[12:19] <sacater> but fluxbox wouldnt start
[12:19] <sacater> and fonts were weird in xfce
[12:20] <sacater> so i am wondering whether removing the welcome screen might work
[12:20] <sacater> or disabling it, something like that
[12:20] <crimsun> what video hardware and $arch?
[12:20] <sacater> crimsun: er, i dont actually know that well, its a second hand laptop
[12:20] <crimsun> there are murmurs of usplash not playing nicely on amd64 with ATI hardware (using fglrx)
[12:20] <sacater> crimsun: would lspci be of help
[12:21] <sacater> crimsun: its not usplash im on about
[12:21] <crimsun> start with dpkg --print-architecture
[12:21] <sacater> its the bit where you log in
[12:21] <sacater> and choose sessions etc
[12:21] <crimsun> then, lspci -v|grep VGA
[12:21] <sacater> sacater@trinity:~$ dpkg --print-architecture 
[12:21] <sacater> i386
[12:21] <sacater> sacater@trinity:~$ 
[12:21] <sacater> okies
[12:22] <crimsun> err, you're on gutsy and experiencing font appearance issues?
[12:22] <sacater> how can i be on gutsy
[12:22] <sacater> its not even released yet
[12:22] <sacater> sacater@trinity:~$ lspci -v|grep VGA
[12:22] <sacater> 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc Rage Mobility P/M AGP 2x (rev 64) (prog-if 00 [VGA] )
[12:22] <sacater> sacater@trinity:~$ 
[12:23] <crimsun> did you check the DPI?
[12:23] <crimsun> I still haven't gotten a succinct description of the issue.
[12:23] <StevenK> sacater: Just because it isn't released doesn't mean you can't upgrade to it. Not that we're suggesting you do so.
[12:25] <sacater> StevenK: i did update-manager -d a day or 2 ago and nowt was there
[12:25] <StevenK> I'm quite happy running unreleased distributions, such as Gutsy or Sid in chroots.
[12:26] <sacater> crimsun: i want my computer to start, load everything up, but land me with a console rather than a graphical session chooser and login
[12:26] <crimsun> sacater: right, you should have that squared away already.
[12:26] <sacater> crimsun: ?
[12:27] <crimsun> sacater: what you just described is done.  You've removed the symlink from /etc/rc2.d/ , no?
[12:28] <sacater> StevenK: how do i get gutsy at this point in time. the development version
[12:28] <sacater> crimsun: but all fonts and stuff went weird, and startfluxbox wouldnt work
[12:28] <StevenK> sacater: I'd seriously suggest you don't run it this early in its development cycle.
[12:29] <sacater> StevenK: fair enough, but where can i get it from
[12:29] <Lhademmor> Hello people, is this the place to talk about MOTU/School?
[12:29] <sacater> Lhademmor: there is a seperate channel for that i believe
[12:29] <Lhademmor> sacater: Hm? Where is that?
[12:29] <sacater> Lhademmor: #ubuntu-classroom
[12:30] <micahcowan> No, I think this would be the right place to talk about motu school. #ubuntu-classroom would be where MOTU/School actually takes place.
[12:30] <Lhademmor> sacater: Thank you :)
[12:30] <Lhademmor> Okay then... Does MOTU/Schoool still take place? The wiki page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School seems very inactive..
[12:30] <Lhademmor> And I won't go about this mentoringthing until I've studied the school a little more closely
[12:31] <micahcowan> AFAIK there haven't been recent sessions, but OTOH, a lot of the most important things have already been covered... perhaps they're looking for new subjects.
[12:31] <micahcowan> Lhademmor, why? What has the one to do with the other?
[12:31] <StevenK> sacater: You need to be familiar with the under-lying tools, such as apt-get or aptitude.
[12:32] <Lhademmor> micahcowan: "It is not designed to teach you how to package. MOTU/School is the appropriate place for that." <-- So I guess that's where I start
[12:32] <sacater> StevenK: i am familiar with them as in I use them on a regular basis
[12:32] <Lhademmor> micahcowan: Are there logs available?
[12:32] <Lhademmor> nvm, I found them
[12:32] <StevenK> sacater: Then to upgrade to it, you edit your sources.list, replace feisty with gutsy, upgrade and pray.
[12:32] <micahcowan> Good :)
[12:33] <micahcowan> Lhademmor, it's not designed to teach you packaging, perhaps, but I believe it is designed to guide you in your first attempts and challenges with packaging (otherwise, why would it be useful?).
[12:33] <sacater> StevenK: whooo! no thanks
[12:33] <sacater> StevenK: would it just offer me a distro upgrade
[12:33] <Lhademmor> micahcowan: Yep, I get it, and I'll try it out :)
[12:33] <micahcowan> But yes, you should definitely go through the school sessions, and read the pertinent wiki and Debian docs that are referenced there, and then come back here for clarifications :)
[12:34] <StevenK> sacater: No, it would run off and do it if you ran aptitiude upgrade or aptitude dist-upgrade. Update-manager is a little more "I'd suggest you upgrade."
[12:34] <sacater> StevenK: i will wait for the herds :P
[12:35] <pochu> sacater: tribe 1 is in ~2 weeks time :)
[12:35] <StevenK> sacater: They're called Tribe this time around
[12:35] <sacater> aha
[12:35] <sacater> okie
[12:35] <sacater> s
[12:35] <StevenK> I should get Tribe 1 for my birthday.
[12:39] <micahcowan> StevenK, is that to avoid confusion with Hurd? :)
[12:39] <StevenK> micahcowan: No, actually. Every release of Ubuntu has had different names for the pre-release snapshots.
[12:40] <micahcowan> Ah. Herd of Fawns, Tribe of Gibbons?
[12:40] <micahcowan> What was Eft's?
[12:40] <StevenK> Edgy's was Knot
[12:40] <micahcowan> Ah, yes.
[12:44] <sacater> i still think Hungry Hippo would be a great distro name
[12:45] <StevenK> H was taken by Hoary Hedgehog
[12:45] <sacater> aw yes
[12:45] <sacater> darn it
[12:59] <afflux> can someone check if this script is bashism free? http://paste.stgraber.org/971
[12:59] <afflux> (I'm not familiar with bashisms)
[01:00] <pochu> is it possible to create a symlink which should be packaged in the diff.gz?
[01:00] <persia> afflux: Looks clean to me, but I'd use grep o[m] $, rather than double grep.
[01:00] <pochu> dpkg-source complains: dpkg-source: unrepresentable changes to source
[01:01] <persia> pochu: man dh(underbar)links
[01:01] <man-di> pochu: use dh_link or debian/*.links file
[01:01] <pochu> ok, thanks :)
[01:02] <Hobbsee> hi all
[01:02] <persia> hi Hobbsee
[01:02] <pochu> hey Hobbsee 
[01:02] <Hobbsee> :)
[01:03] <afflux> persia: thanks
[01:05] <persia> afflux: If you install the dash package (likely already installed), you can always test locally.
[01:05] <afflux> persia: I'll when I built the package
[01:05] <afflux> +do
[01:08] <pschulz01> I have an automake/autotools library package that I'd like to deb package.. it builds ok with ./setup.sh; ./configure; make.. I have done a 'dh_make' with the library option.. what next.
[01:09] <pschulz01> 'dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -us -uc' gives me errors.
[01:11] <Kmos> pschulz01: http://paste.stgraber.org
[01:15] <pschulz01> Will 'dpkg-buildpackage' call './autogen.sh' ?
[01:15] <Kmos> pschulz01: how about? dpkg-buildpackage -S -rfakeroot -us -uc
[01:15] <pschulz01> http://paste.stgraber.org/972
[01:17] <pschulz01> Kmos: Hm.. that worked, but not exactly what I'm after :-)
[01:21] <Kmos> it builds fine ?
[01:21] <Kmos> you want to create now a .deb ?
[01:22] <pschulz01> Kmos: build fine.. I think I just have to 'simplify' the 'configure' line in the rules file.
[01:22] <Kmos> pschulz01 :)
[01:22] <pschulz01> Kmos: Manual build is fine
[01:23] <afflux> pschulz01: your paste looks like you forgot to mention a library
[01:33] <pschulz01> Kmos: afflux - package now builds, but nothing in it.
[01:34] <afflux> well, then your packaging is wrong...
[01:34] <afflux> anyone knows how to tell pbuilder not to remove the build directory on errors?
[01:34] <man-di> pschulz01: forgot to write and debian/*.install file?
[01:35] <pschulz01> man-di: more than likely :-)
[01:35] <pschulz01> man-di: I haven't done a lot yet.
[01:35] <man-di> pschulz01: np, I just give some small hints to make you learn all you need yourself
[01:36] <pschulz01> :-)
[01:44] <pschulz01> Ahah! Installed in debian/tmp/usr/local/lib.. 
[01:45] <ajmitch> night all
[01:45] <Fujitsu> Night ajmitch.
[02:16] <pgquiles> lintian says "W: libtomcrypt0-dev: package-name-doesnt-match-sonames libtomcrypt-prof0". How do I include libtomcrypt_prof.* in libtomcrypt0-dev and get lintian not to complain?
[02:26] <persia> pgquiles: It's generally advised to use multiple binary packages to achieve that, but you can force it with a lintian override, if you are really sure that they need to be in the same package.
[02:27] <pgquiles> persia: not that they need to but I think it would be convenient
[02:32] <geser> can libtomcrypt-prof0 be used independent of libtomcrypt0?
[02:32] <pgquiles> geser: not without libtomcrypt0 but it could be without libtomcrypt0-dev which is the one lintian is complaining about
[02:33] <pgquiles> I guess it'd be better to have a new package
[02:38] <PriceChild> Hey persia, made some progress I think :)
[02:38] <persia> PriceChild: Great.  Did you upload?  Can I look again?
[02:39] <geser> pgquiles: you're shipping a lib in a -dev package?
[02:40] <PriceChild> persia, yeah, 5204 I think... yeah http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5204
[02:40] <pgquiles> geser: only the profiling lib
[02:40] <geser> and name the -dev package libtomcrypt-dev unless you need to support builing against multiple API versions
[02:40] <persia> PriceChild: I've already commented on that one :)
[02:40] <PriceChild> persia, ah ok lol.... I'm looking forward to redoing everything :P Haven't seen comments yet :)
[02:42] <PriceChild> persia, wow.... so you don't think I have to redo much.... :P Hmmm I wonder what I can do about the 64bit thing... I know someone who has a machine that I used to package beryl on, will poke him to ask if I can do that.
[02:43] <persia> PriceChild: No, aside from licensing, and python, it eyeballs well for me.  Let me know if you have trouble getting access for the 64-bit build, and I'll prep a patch (my 64-bit patch for 2.3 doesn't apply :( )
[02:43] <PriceChild> Ok cool... lets hope if I do get access to 64bit that I have half a clue what to do :P
[02:45] <persia> PriceChild: For 2.3, it was just adjusting a couple "int"s to "unsigned long"s, when they were used for pointers.  I think a total of about 8 places in the code.
[02:45] <PriceChild> Wait a minute 2.3 what...? :S
[02:45] <PriceChild> gah the guy's gone on holiday now... I'm sure he would have just released a new version for me so we didn't have to patch.
[02:45] <persia> PriceChild: I packaged 2.3 in March, but Tim didn't want me to release it because he was working on version 3.
[02:46] <PriceChild> Aj ok
[02:46] <marseillai> hi
[02:48] <persia> PriceChild: Take a look at simple-patchsys.  It makes patching really easy, at least for simple patches.
[02:48] <PriceChild> Hehe i've got to learn some time :)
[02:52] <marseillai> i'm trying to package kcontrol-autostart : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5214 and i've this error in pbuilder : http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/21675/ does anyone have an idea of the problem ?
[02:55] <pgquiles> marseillai: as automake-1.9 was not found, you have no 'configure'. Is automake-1.9 listed as a build-dependency?
[02:56] <marseillai> autotool-dev are in build-dep
[02:56] <marseillai> is it enough?
[02:57] <marseillai> pgquiles: ?
[02:58] <pgquiles> marseillai: I was looking at the description for autotools-dev
[03:00] <pgquiles> marseillai: I'd say it's not enough as autotools-dev has no install dependency
[03:11] <PriceChild> persia, None of the modules will require a ${python:Depends} Dep will they?
[03:12] <PriceChild> not modules
[03:12] <PriceChild> libraries
[03:13] <PriceChild> wait not that's a silly question...
[03:13] <PriceChild> they all do don't they...
[03:15] <persia> PriceChild: I think you need one for gizmod and libgizmod, but I don't think you need one for libh.  I'd recommend putting it in for both of them, and looking at the debs you get back to see if you think the dependencies are correct.
[03:15] <PriceChild> ok /me looks harder again
[03:16] <PriceChild> ah yeah silly me that makes sense tnow
[03:25] <PriceChild> persia, bah broken after those changes. :P Will fix that now.
[03:26] <persia> PriceChild: That's the fun of packaging.  When you fix it, you get to fix it again :)
[03:27] <PriceChild> lol
[03:27] <PriceChild> the first being a "fix"
[03:29] <PriceChild> persia, hmm its python2.5 by default isn't it...?
[03:29] <persia> PriceChild: Yes.  Does 3.1 not work with 2.5?
[03:30] <PriceChild> for some reason the build just called 2.4 and failed :P
[03:30] <PriceChild> It can't be the actual software as its always been perfect up until now.... must be my "fixes" in the debian/ I suppose... :s
[03:31] <persia> PriceChild: I'm pretty sure you can force things with the correct entry in debian/pyversions or XS-Python-Version (depending on how you are complying with python policy).
[03:32] <PriceChild> I haven't yet read any python policy.... :P
[03:32] <persia> PriceChild: URL is in the comment.
[03:32] <PriceChild> oh yeah i've read that
[03:32] <PriceChild> sorry confused :)
[03:33] <PriceChild> ah I seeit
[03:37] <PriceChild> persia, argh it fails again...
[03:39] <persia> PriceChild: pastebin the applicable part of the build, and I'll take a look.
[03:40] <PriceChild> thanks :) http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/21687/
[03:41] <persia> Ummm... OK.  Could you paste a bit more please :)
[03:41] <PriceChild> hehe
[03:42] <PriceChild> well that's the only odd bit... I mean take a look at this bit i'm pming you
[03:43] <tsmithe> anyone up for a revu?
[03:49] <tsmithe> anyone?
[03:49] <tsmithe> woo uscan
[03:57] <tsmithe> crimsun: ping. what's the status of alsa-tools in gutsy? (re my alsa-firmware changes)
[04:08] <PriceChild> Hi I need some help with my package at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5217 specifically python being annoying. output of pbuilder at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/21694/
[04:11] <pochu> PriceChild: have you tried to compile it from source?
[04:12] <PriceChild> I did, and it worked before my "fixes" for debian policy... will check that again now though if you want?
[04:13] <PriceChild> *python policy
[04:14] <pochu> PriceChild: it fails because setup.py doesn't exist, but I don't know why it's trying to use it.
[04:14] <pochu> python2.5: can't open file 'setup.py': [Errno 2]  No such file or directory
[04:15] <PriceChild> yeah...
[04:15] <persia> pochu: CDBS default python build as documented in python policy calls this.  Most every other python package has a setup.py (it's the python makefile).
[04:17] <pochu> So either don't use CDBS, or tell him to just "make", right?
[04:17] <pochu> s/him/it/
[04:17] <welshbyte> or don't use python-distutils.mk in the rules file
[04:19] <welshbyte> CDBS is the good crack ;)
[04:24] <pgquiles> could any REVU admin please remove libtom* in incoming? I mistakenly sent the _amd64.changes instead of _source.changes
[04:30] <sacater> hey, does anyone have a clue what this is
[04:30] <sacater> Message from syslogd@trinity at Sun May 20 15:16:06 2007 ...
[04:30] <sacater> trinity kernel: [ 6819.468000]  Dazed and confused, but trying to
[04:30] <sacater> continue
[04:30] <sacater> Message from syslogd@trinity at Sun May 20 15:16:06 2007 ...
[04:30] <sacater> trinity kernel: [ 6819.468000]  Uhhuh. NMI received for unknown reason a1
[04:30] <sacater> on CPU 0.
[04:31] <sacater> Message from syslogd@trinity at Sun May 20 15:16:06 2007 ...
[04:31] <sacater> [15:31]  kernel: [ 6819.468000]  You have some hardware problem, likely on
[04:31] <sacater> the PCI bus.
[04:31] <Treenaks> You have some hardware problem, likely on the PCI bus
[04:31] <sacater> ok
[04:32] <sacater> but are those messages genuine
[04:32] <Treenaks> but I guess you knew that
[04:32] <Treenaks> could be..
[04:32] <sacater> i mean, what program says'Dazed and confused'
[04:32] <Treenaks> the kernel :)
[04:32] <sacater> really...
[04:32] <persia> sacater: Usually.  The kernel is pretty good at knowing when it is confused.
[04:32] <sacater> i thought i had been hacked or something weird :S
[04:32] <Treenaks> that particular message was already in 2.2 kernels.. whoa
[04:33] <sacater> so nothing to worry about..
[04:33] <Treenaks> well
[04:33] <man-di> sacater: if hardware problems are nothing to worry about for you...fine
[04:33] <sacater> well, i mean i havnt been hacked, thats what i was worrying about
[04:33] <sacater> i care about hardware of course
[04:34] <Treenaks> sacater: this message is real kernel stuff
[04:34] <persia> sacater: You can never know that you haven't been hacked; you can only sometimes know when you have.
[04:51] <ucap> persia: got a second to look at the sendmail debdiff I'm working on? sent you a link in a dialogue
[04:52] <persia> ucap: Sure.  I'll take a look now.
[04:53] <persia> ucap: Dialog?  I don't see an update to the bug, email, or a message.
[04:54] <ucap> http://84.16.236.81/debdiff.txt I haven't updated the bug yet, as I first wanted to make sure it was okay this time
[04:55] <luisbg> public thanks to persia for all the audacity work =)
[04:57] <persia> ucap: Thanks.  The changes themselves look good, but the changelog is a bit messy.  You only need one line about the maintainer change (either is good), the correct format to reference launchpad bugs is (LP: bugnumber), and you should try to shorten the first line to something less than 72 characters (including the (LP: 83673)
[04:57] <persia> luisbg: The Debian maintainers deserve the credit.  I just want to abolish wxwindows2.4 :)
[04:58] <ucap> persia: okay, will update it and get back to you (again). thanks for your patience.
[04:59] <persia> ucap: Thank you for working on the patch.
[05:08] <ucap> persia: debdiff updated - same link as before
[05:14] <persia> ucap: Looks good.  Post it to the bug, and I'll process it.
[05:17] <ucap> persia: finally :) I have just updated the bug report.
[05:20] <welshbyte> how can i pass DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS="nostrip debug noopt" to `sudo pbuilder build foo.dsc`?
[05:23] <persia> welshbyte: for nostrip, try installing pkg-create-dbgsym in your pbuilder (not exactly the same, but allows the sme debugging)
[05:24] <welshbyte> persia: i should really do it with DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS to test a patch for this bug, but thanks for that piece of info :)
[05:38] <welshbyte> ah, exporting it before running pbuilder seems to work... i assumed it wouldn't before
[05:51] <marseillai_> during the build of kcontrol-autostart it requires automake1.6 but there is no automake1.6 in repo is there a way to solve this problem ?
[05:54] <persia> marseillai: Try bumping to a newer automake (1.9 or 1.10) and see if it compiles.  If it doesn't, either patch the build system, or try older automakes, hoping to find one which works.
[05:56] <marseillai> persia: allready done
[05:56] <marseillai> i've try automake and automake1.9
[05:59] <persia> marseillai: How about automake1.7, automake1.8, and automake1.10?  If none of these work, you need to patch the build system.
[05:59] <marseillai> i'm trying with 1.7
[06:03] <Lamego> any idea where I can check how debian menu entires are mapped to the applications menu ?
[06:04] <persia> Lamego: see the menu-xdg package.  It creates heaps of .desktop files in /var/lib/menu-xdg/applications/menu-xdg/.
[06:06] <Lamego> I am not referring to .desktop files, I am referring to /usr/share/menu entries
[06:08] <Lamego> ok, I guess you mean that the .desktop files generated to menu-xdg, however I have none at /var/lib/menu-xdg/applications/menu-xdg/
[06:28] <sacater> StevenK: when you say Gutsy is highly unstable, how unstable are we talking
[06:29] <pochu> sacater: openoffice crashes on startup ;)
[06:29] <sacater> pochu: know that first-hand?
[06:29] <pochu> sure thing :)
[06:30] <sacater> pochu: i trust you have filed bug reports ;P
[06:30] <pochu> sacater: bug 111940
[06:30] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 111940 in hunspell "libhunspell-1.1-0 1.1.5-6: Incompatible ABI change" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/111940
[06:30] <pochu> sacater: firefox and TB were also crashing, but they're already fixed :)
[06:30] <sacater> pochu: good :D
[06:30] <pochu> however, more breakage is expected ;)
[06:31] <persia> sacater: You can keep openoffice working, if you give up on firefox, thunderbird, and liferea :)
[06:31] <sacater> heh
[06:31] <pochu> persia: or if you disable the spellcheck ;)
[06:31] <pochu> I've just edit a 2 pages word document :)
[06:32] <pochu> persia: I don't know either :p
[06:32] <pochu> persia: maybe it's because the document was in Spanish, and my system is entirely in English.
[06:32] <pochu> Anyway, I'm off now. See you folks!
[06:33] <sacater> pochu: bye
[07:04] <pgquiles> is there any REVU admin here?
[07:40] <wolfeon> doko: ping?
[07:40] <wolfeon> doko: where do you see a PyObject_Del in my patch? :)
[07:41] <bluekuja> jdong: ping
[07:41] <geser> wolfeon: he ask about replace PyObject_FREE with PyObject_Del
[07:41] <doko> wolfeon: please use the glasses yourself to re-read the comment
[07:41] <wolfeon> :P
[07:42] <bluekuja> doko: do you have a minute for a package update review for main? (gnome-btdownload)
[07:42] <bluekuja> its still 0.0.25
[07:42] <bluekuja> and upstream got
[07:43] <bluekuja> 0.0.28
[07:43] <wolfeon> well I'll have to read the updated python manual, heh.
[07:43] <wolfeon> guess I assumed from the effbot article it was the correct way
[07:44] <doko> bluekuja: not today, it's a free day, I should be subscribed to the main-sponsors reports, so if there is a report ...
[07:45] <bluekuja> doko: ok :)
[07:46] <ThunderStruck> is there a way of finding out why a package is held in NEW?
[07:47] <geser> the only reason why a package is in NEW is because it needs a review by the archive admins
[07:48] <ThunderStruck> yes i understand but its been there for a week+ i was wondering if ther ewas an issue thats why it wasnt pushed
[07:49] <geser> ThunderStruck: the archive admins do their archive work on 3 days a week
[07:49] <wolfeon> doko: #define PyObject_DELPyObject_FREE in the 2.5...
[07:49] <ThunderStruck> oh ok
[07:49] <wolfeon> doko: however, let me read to see which one is the better to use for also the past releases.
[07:51] <wolfeon> just to make sure I'm not blind. Ubuntu doesn't have anything in packages for python releases except 2.4 and 2.5, correct?
[07:51] <geser> yes
[07:54] <wolfeon> in 2.5, the correct method would be PyObject_FREE. Also 2.4, the correct method would be PyObject_FREE
[07:55] <wolfeon> http://svn.python.org/projects/python/branches/release24-maint/Include/objimpl.h
[07:55] <wolfeon> http://svn.python.org/projects/python/branches/release25-maint/Include/objimpl.h
[07:56] <wolfeon> It seems, from the comment.. _Del was a thing from 2.2, there is a prototype in the comment.
[07:58] <man-di> is http://packages.ubuntu.com/ down?
[07:59] <beuno> hello, I'd like to sync a new package from Debian that has just been uploaded with bugs fixed present in Ubuntu, how would I request that?
[08:00] <geser> beuno: has the Ubuntu package changes?
[08:00] <beuno> no, it hasn't had any patches applied to it
[08:00] <geser> than it should be sync automatically, we are still in auto-sync mode
[08:01] <wolfeon> well it works in 2.4 and 2.5, all I really care about then, heh
[08:01] <beuno> geser: great, thanks, how often does Ubuntu sync?
[08:02] <geser> I don't know how the auto-sync works exactly
[08:02] <geser> you may ask an archive admin tomorrow
[08:02] <mumbly> hi : could you please re-sync the REVU uploaders keyring for me ?
[08:02] <beuno> geser: thanks, last question, how can I be notified when it gets updated?
[08:04] <geser> afaik there is no notification service
[08:04] <wolfeon> doko_: well, PyObject_Del wraps PyObject_Free anyway, I'll change it just in case.. 
[08:04] <wolfeon> "Unless you have specific memory management requirements, use
[08:04] <wolfeon> PyObject_{New, NewVar, Del}."
[08:04] <doko_> wolfeon: thanks
[08:04] <welshbyte> apart from gutsy-changes@ which sends email for all the changes (afaik)
[08:05] <wolfeon> doko_: I'll also update the names to match. I don't like using NEW and Del, so I'll update NEW to New
[08:05] <wolfeon> they are aliases to the same thing.
[08:06] <geser> I'm not sure if the auto-syncs appear on gutsy-changes
[08:06] <persia> They used to show there (see the archives).
[08:07] <geser> all?
[08:07] <beuno> geser: that seems a bit odd, like in this case, I know a bug is being closed, but I have no way of monitoring it?
[08:07] <welshbyte> geser: a package i have in debian appeared there... that's why i mentioned it
[08:08] <lionel> yes, all auto-sync appear on gutsy-changes
[08:09] <beuno> lionel: but there is no way to get notified on a specific package?
[08:09] <lionel> no
[08:10] <beuno> right, thanks lionel, geser
[08:11] <wolfeon> second, almost done..
[08:20] <wolfeon> doko_: updated
[08:21] <pgquiles> is there any way to delete a dput'ted file in REVU?
[08:22] <wolfeon> and tested heavily, heh.
[08:22] <ThunderStruck> pgquiles, only the revu admins can do that
[08:23] <pgquiles> ThunderStruck: :-( I sent the wrong file 8 hours ago and I'm blocked now, I can't delete that file or upload the good one
[08:23] <ThunderStruck> pgquiles, i dont think any are here ATM but they will have to remove it
[08:39] <wolfeon> umm
[08:39] <wolfeon> umm
[08:39] <PriceChild> http://sourceforge.net/projects/gizmod/ states the license of the "Project". Do you think this would also apply to the documentation at http://gizmod.wiki.sourceforge.net/ ?
[08:42] <PriceChild> hmm nevermind...
[08:53] <micahcowan> crimsun, around?
[09:01] <micahcowan> Is the UUID=xxxx method for referring to a filesystem a generally-supported feature, or is it specific to Debian/Ubuntu?
[09:03] <Burgundavia> is part of the new upstream libata
[09:03] <micahcowan> Gotcha. Thanks.
[09:21] <micahcowan> Mista Kitterman :)
[09:42] <ajmitch> morning
[09:42] <geser> hi ajmitch
[09:42] <wolfeon> :)
[09:42] <wolfeon> geser: hey, to create a feisty-proposed package...
[09:42] <wolfeon> geser: do I just change the name from gutsy to feisty-proposed?
[09:42] <geser> yes, and an other version
[09:42] <wolfeon> oh, right..
[09:42] <geser>  1.1.1-2.1ubuntu0.1
[09:42] <wolfeon> 0.1? it is currently 1.1.1-2.1build1
[09:42] <wolfeon> what is the logic behind 0.1?
[09:42] <geser> that it's lower than the next version in gutsy
[09:42] <wolfeon> ohhh
[09:42] <wolfeon> geser: do I attach the patch to the tracker? 
[09:42] <geser> yes
[09:42] <wolfeon> doko_: okay, there you go ;)
[09:42] <doko_> wolfeon: could you follow the StableReleaseUpdates procedure?
[09:42] <ScottK> crimsun: I just saw on the scrollback you are moving to Washington DC.  I live in that area.  If you want housing advice, let me know...
[09:42] <wolfeon> doko_: mm, no :)
[09:42] <wolfeon> aww, I have to go through proposals just to get the package fixed? :/
[09:42] <geser> yes
[09:42] <geser> the fix must be tested before is it included in feisty-updates and made available to all users
[09:42] <wolfeon> hmm, well okay :)
[09:42] <doko_> wolfeon: I agree it's a bit complicated the first time ...
[09:43] <wolfeon> doko_: just a bit complicated, yes. :)
[09:48] <welshbyte> is having a mentor a prerequisite for becoming a motu?
[09:48] <wolfeon> where is this "Backport to fix releases" to mark the bug for backporting?
[09:51] <ScottK> wolfeon: Backport is something different than stable update.
[09:51] <ScottK> welshbyte: No.
[09:51] <wolfeon> ScottK: okay :)
[09:52] <welshbyte> ok
[09:57] <Lamego> wolfeon, does your bug fix met the SRU criteria ?
[10:01] <wolfeon> Lamego: I'm working on it, one minute.
[10:01] <wolfeon> the bug fix does, yes, but I'm adding more to the description
[10:01] <Lamego> ok :)
[10:03] <wolfeon> Lamego: sorry, testing too. I don't want to make a mistake.
[10:04] <Lamego> what is the package ?
[10:04] <wolfeon> python-fam
[10:07] <wolfeon> doko_: did you update the development branch with the patch?
[10:08] <doko_> wolfeon: no, so to complete your work, it would be nice if you inform upstream about the fix
[10:09] <wolfeon> doko_: trying..
[10:09] <wolfeon> upstream might be dead :)
[10:09] <wolfeon> or do you mean debian?
[10:18] <wolfeon> doko_: python-fam requires fam, but it installs even if gamin is installed...
[10:19] <wolfeon> doko_: would it be okay to add a requirement for fam?
[10:19] <wolfeon> doko_: I don't know why or how it works, but python-fam segfaults python if fam and family is not installed.
[10:20] <wolfeon> *are not
[10:22] <wolfeon> gamin supposedly provides a /usr/lib/libfam.so.0.0.0 for apps which depend on fam. It isn't working though. heh.
[10:41] <Nafallo> hi gang
[10:44] <pochu> Nafallo: where have you been all this time? :)
[10:44] <Nafallo> my Internet at home are screwed :-/
[10:44] <Nafallo> I'm at a livecd at my parents atm
[10:45] <wolfeon> hehe
[10:45] <Nafallo> that reminds me... I should download tcpdump to see why I can't get ARP to my default route :-P
[10:46] <pochu> :)
[10:46] <Nafallo> probably busted modem though :-P
[10:51] <Nafallo> hmm. I've probably sent 30k pings to default route. will let it continue so I can show it to the fieldtech :-)
[10:51] <Simon80> man-di: I also see that packages.ubuntu.com is down, as of now
[10:52] <Nafallo> launchpad is up ;-)
[10:52] <crimsun> ScottK: ok, thanks.  I'll ask sometime later via email.
[10:53] <ajmitch> Nafallo: perhaps because packages.ubuntu.com is run by a 3rd party, and not canonical?
[10:54] <Nafallo> I was more like... what do we need p.u.c for? :-)
[10:56] <pochu> doesn't aptitude changelog check p.u.c?
[10:57] <ajmitch> I doubt i
[10:57] <Nafallo> changes.ubuntu.com AFAIK
[11:01] <pochu> Firefox can't find the server at changes.ubuntu.com.
[11:01] <welshbyte> s/changes/changelogs/
[11:02] <pochu> changelogs.u.c works better ;)
[11:02] <Simon80> where is prevu documented?
[11:03] <welshbyte> !revu
[11:03] <ubotu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
[11:03] <Simon80> not revu, prevu
[11:03] <welshbyte> oh... what's prevu? :)
[11:03] <Simon80> jdong, I'm looking at you here :)
[11:03] <pochu> !prevu
[11:03] <ubotu> prevu is an automated, personal backporting utility. Check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Prevu for more details
[11:03] <Simon80> thanks
[11:03] <welshbyte> heh
[11:03] <pochu> hehe, didn't know it was going to work :)
[11:32] <Simon80> if anyone is interested in my radical idea, I envision a simple system whereby you can maintain a non-redistributable package locally as if it were a regular, but it would be deployed in a repo format that only contains a diff, and no orig tarball
[11:32] <Simon80> a regular package*
[11:34] <Simon80> so the app to be written would be required to handle viewing repos, grabbing diffs and upstream binaries, and then building the package locally and installing it
[11:34] <welshbyte> Simon80: it's sort of already done, there are packages just containing scripts to download non-distributable software and run the installer
[11:35] <Simon80> yeah, but it's all done in the postinst and prerm scripts, which seems wrong to me
[11:37] <Simon80> it can be done in a way that leverages dpkg to manage the installation, with the script in debian/rules instead, but it isn't
[11:37] <welshbyte> Simon80: do you think it would encourage more people to make their software non-redistributable though?
[11:38] <Simon80> no, I don't
[11:38] <Simon80> there are linux distros other than debian
[11:38] <Simon80> gentoo already does exactly what I'm saying, I'm basically inspired by that
[11:38] <welshbyte> right, i see
[11:39] <Simon80> then again, perhaps it would, given the popularity of ubuntu
[11:39] <welshbyte> :)
[11:40] <Simon80> I don't think it's right to make that decision though, it's up to the users whether they want to boycott these things or not, Ubuntu shouldn't force them
[11:41] <Simon80> I mean, unless it wants to be like Fedora
[11:41] <Simon80> it's between compromising on this stuff, or not being a completely viable replacement for windows
[11:42] <jrib> vifm's postinst script always returns error exit status 1.  Here's the script: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/21749/ .  Adding "exit 0" as the last line seems to fix things.  But, 1) I'm not so sure this is the right way to generate help tags after reading http://yacoob.dnsalias.net/sakwa/vim-policy.txt .  What is the right way? 2) since this program isn't a vim add-on but just a file manager that emulates vim, should it be adding help files to vim?
[11:43] <Simon80> doesn't seem like a logical idea, no
[11:43] <Simon80> but I'm just some guy
[11:44] <jrib> thanks some guy
[12:01] <Simon80> lol
[12:01] <Simon80> that's just my opinion, I mean
[12:01] <crimsun> jrib: have you checked whether vim-tiny actually is capable of handling that postinst?
[12:03] <crimsun> it seems like that postinst needs to check a bit more than just the existence of /usr/bin/vim
[12:05] <jrib> crimsun: that's probably true as well.  Making vim point to vim.tiny makes the script fail as well, though it succeeds if I add "exit 0" as the last line.  Is adding "exit 0" as the last line wrong?  I don't really understand why it exits with 1 whether it's vim.tiny or vim.full that's getting called
[12:05] <crimsun> e.g., `update-alternatives --list vim' or `readlink /etc/alternatives/vim'
[12:05] <crimsun> well, does the postinst succeed with vim and vim-full?
[12:06] <jrib> no, it fails
[12:06] <jrib> but, I run: sudo /usr/bin/vim -ec ":helptags /etc/vim/doc/ | :quit"    myself and get no output
[12:06] <TheMuso> Hey all.
[12:07] <jrib> crimsun: oh, I do get lots of error output with vim.tiny if I run the command directly
[12:07] <crimsun> hi, Luke
[12:07] <Hobbsee> hi TheMuso 
[12:08] <jrib> oops false alarm, the errors were because of my vimrc...
[12:08] <crimsun> hi, MissHidingFromLaunchpad
[12:08] <TheMuso> Hey Hobbsee. Seems like this early morning thing for you is becoming a habbit.
[12:08] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: yeah, maybe.  but i do have to go to work tonight, so....
[12:08] <TheMuso> crimsun: heh
[12:08] <Hobbsee> crimsun: *grin*
[12:08] <ajmitch> TheMuso: it's not 3am though
[12:08] <crimsun> jrib: so what's the verdict?
[12:09] <TheMuso> ajmitch: heh
[12:09] <Hobbsee> it seems i shouldnt have replied to that thread at all, then
[12:09] <Hobbsee> launchpad users ml
[12:09] <ajmitch> worrying
[12:10] <jrib> crimsun: the postinst script fails (returns exit status 1) with vim.full as well as vim.tiny .  But the '/usr/bin/vim -esc blah blah' command succeeds if I run it directly using both vim.tiny and vim.full
[12:11] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: you do that so well
[12:11] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: indeed.
[12:11] <jrib> crimsun: by "succeed" I meant fails but has no output apparently...
[12:12] <crimsun> what does `echo $?' give you?
[12:13] <jrib> 1
[12:13] <crimsun> so it didn't succeed at all
[12:13] <jrib> right, except the tags are generated
[12:14] <jrib> anyway, I think the solution is to use "helpztags" command like vim-latexsuite does or to just get rid of these help files since the program is not actually related to vi, it just emulates the keys