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| Keybuk | refactoring is such great fun | 02:06 |
|---|---|---|
| ion_ | Heh | 02:27 |
| AlexExtreme | why's that? :) | 02:28 |
| Keybuk | cleaned up event.c a little bit | 02:37 |
| AlexExtreme | cool | 02:37 |
| Keybuk | got rid of the evily named EventEmission structure | 02:37 |
| Keybuk | (that's now just Event) | 02:38 |
| Keybuk | (and what was Event is now EventInfo) | 02:38 |
| Keybuk | also added some ref-counting stuff, so we can keep Event information around after it's been handled (since it populates environment, etc.) | 02:38 |
| Keybuk | http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~keybuk/upstart/main/revision/scott%40netsplit.com-20070520120917-6yanaj1t0a1ej3zd?start_revid=scott%40netsplit.com-20070520121451-6273as3mqxmumuai#init/job.c | 02:42 |
| ion_ | * should be releaed and the event should be freed. | 02:49 |
| ion_ | test_event.c | 02:49 |
| Keybuk | :-) | 03:00 |
| Keybuk | next thing to figure out is what the difference between Jobs and States means | 03:00 |
| Keybuk | * should they be configured in different directories? | 03:02 |
| Keybuk | or should they be the same, just without processes specified | 03:03 |
| Keybuk | - if different, how do we avoid name clashes? | 03:03 |
| Keybuk | - if the same, how do we prevent "start STATE" from working? | 03:03 |
| Keybuk | and what happens if you turn a file from a job to a state or vice-versa? | 03:03 |
| AlexExtreme | if it's the same, can't you prevent start STATE from working by having init work out whether it is a state, and if it is chuck back an error and bail out? | 03:05 |
| AlexExtreme | or is it not possible to work out? | 03:05 |
| ion_ | Perhaps the use cases should be considered to determine that. | 03:07 |
| ion_ | That is, what Keybuk said. | 03:07 |
| Keybuk | what I want to avoid is having the entire Job structure around for a State | 03:21 |
| Keybuk | otherwise, what's the difference? | 03:21 |
| Keybuk | I can see two easy ways to do that | 03:21 |
| Keybuk | one is to have a states hash, as well as a jobs hash, and have something evil in cfgfile.c that returns State instead of Job if there's no processes configured, etc. | 03:21 |
| Keybuk | but you'd then have to look in both hashes all the time | 03:22 |
| Keybuk | the other way would be to get rid of the jobs hash | 03:24 |
| Keybuk | instead have a "registry" | 03:24 |
| Keybuk | that'd probably have several levels | 03:24 |
| Keybuk | 1) configuration directory (e.g. /etc/??, ~/.??, etc.) | 03:24 |
| Keybuk | 2) filename | 03:25 |
| Keybuk | 3) state or job found there | 03:25 |
| Keybuk | and hash at (3) | 03:25 |
| Keybuk | that way, a file that defines both a state and a job (ie. an ordinary job) would be able to used as either a state or a job | 03:25 |
| Keybuk | but a file that defined just a state could only be used as a state | 03:25 |
| Keybuk | also that makes -HUP easy ;P | 03:25 |
| Keybuk | and I could move all the "replacement" stuff into that | 03:26 |
| Keybuk | (though when do you replace a State file?) | 03:27 |
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| === Keybuk ponders | ||
| Keybuk | I guess the major question is: does it make sense to let sysadmins manually start/stop a "state" ? | 04:30 |
| Keybuk | e.g. if you've defined "user-can-login" as a state | 04:30 |
| Keybuk | (or writable-filesystem, filesystem-and-networking, etc.) | 04:31 |
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| AlexExtreme | i don't think it makes sense, really. they aren't processes, so you should really be able to start/stop them. and if you have a case where a state hasn't really been reached, yet the sysadmin still starts it, it could cause some problems | 04:38 |
| AlexExtreme | so in the long run it'd be less problematic, IMO | 04:39 |
| ion_ | I cant think of a state a sysadmin would need to start or stop manually. I cant think clearly with this flu in addition to my usual symptoms, though. :-) | 04:40 |
| Keybuk | hmm | 04:41 |
| Keybuk | so better question, should you be able to have a pre-start and/or post-stop script for a state? | 04:41 |
| AlexExtreme | hmm | 04:46 |
| AlexExtreme | i'm not sure... | 04:46 |
| AlexExtreme | i can't really think of a use case for that | 04:46 |
| ion_ | How about having a process ping a remote host every once in a while and set a network-reachable state based on the pong? | 04:47 |
| AlexExtreme | at the moment we can create a job without a main process, just a pre-start and post-stop. are those states or are they still jobs? | 04:47 |
| Keybuk | exactly | 04:48 |
| Keybuk | use case: runlevel-2 state that sets utmp on the way in? | 04:49 |
| AlexExtreme | hmm | 04:49 |
| AlexExtreme | yes | 04:49 |
| Keybuk | user-can-login state that removes /etc/nologin on the way in, touches it on the way out? | 04:49 |
| AlexExtreme | yep | 04:49 |
| Keybuk | I can think of examples that are "nice" | 04:50 |
| Keybuk | and can't think of any counter-reasons why it should be forbidden | 04:50 |
| ion_ | Yeah, definitely. | 04:50 |
| AlexExtreme | yep | 04:50 |
| Keybuk | which means that "State" would need the same internal state machine as "Job" | 04:54 |
| Keybuk | along with the ability to define processes, and their environment | 04:54 |
| Keybuk | so the difference between a state and a service is purely semantic | 04:54 |
| Keybuk | that makes things much easier, since it answers the questions like how to decide when to replace a state definition with one from an updated config file | 05:06 |
| ion_ | Defining states just as jobs without a main process follows the KISS principle. | 05:07 |
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| Keybuk | yeah | 06:00 |
| keir | i have a possibly rude question: how long until upstart begins shrinking boot time via parallel process start, etc? | 06:07 |
| AlexExtreme | it already can do | 06:07 |
| AlexExtreme | it'll *probably* be available in ubuntu 7.10 | 06:07 |
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| keir | i don't mind long boots on my desktop, but they are killer on my laptop | 06:10 |
| keir | especially since suspend is broken | 06:10 |
| Keybuk | it's interesting how hating the first normally co-incides with being affected by the 2nd :p | 06:10 |
| keir | heh | 06:11 |
| keir | i dream of fresh-install XP SP2 boot times for ubuntu | 06:11 |
| keir | now that os boots fast! | 06:11 |
| Keybuk | only the first time ... | 06:12 |
| cortana | but if you add up all the times you _have_ to boot it, i wonder which one eats a larger chunk of one's life | 06:12 |
| keir | true! but i used to run it on my laptop for old games | 06:16 |
| keir | i only had FF and the games installed | 06:16 |
| keir | i always got very jealous when it would boot up in 15 seconds or so | 06:16 |
| cortana | it's a good thing that winodws boots in about 20-25 seconds | 06:17 |
| cortana | i have to reboot about 3-4 times ususally to get my keyboard to work | 06:17 |
| Keybuk | Upstart's primary goal isn't to make boot faster | 06:18 |
| keir | Keybuk, i know | 06:18 |
| Keybuk | it's too make it more reliable and robust | 06:18 |
| cortana | there is a totally random 75% chance that my keyboard will _not_ work on any given boot into xp :( | 06:18 |
| Keybuk | as well as provide more flexibility for what's actually running | 06:18 |
| keir | Keybuk, it'd be great if that was a side effect :) | 06:18 |
| Keybuk | we just happen to also think it will speed it up | 06:18 |
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| === Starting logfile irclogs/upstart.log | ||
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| === Topic for #upstart: Upstart 0.3.8 | http://upstart.ubuntu.com/ | http://upstart.ubuntu.com/wiki/UpstartOnGentoo | ||
| === Topic (#upstart): set by Md at Sun May 6 19:59:46 2007 | ||
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| quitte | hi. has anyone tried compiling upstart using uclibc? I get this error:child.c: In function 'nih_child_poll': child.c:141: error: 'WEXITED' undeclared (first use in this function) WNOWAIT is also undeclared | 11:01 |
| === Starting logfile irclogs/upstart.log | ||
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| === Topic for #upstart: Upstart 0.3.8 | http://upstart.ubuntu.com/ | http://upstart.ubuntu.com/wiki/UpstartOnGentoo | ||
| === Topic (#upstart): set by Md at Sun May 6 19:59:46 2007 | ||
| quitte | now I'm getting undefined reference to `inotify_add_watch. do you happen to know what is missing in uclibc for that,too? | 12:10 |
| Keybuk | sys/inotify.h | 12:12 |
| quitte | hmm. that should comefrom the kernel, not uclibc? | 12:13 |
| Keybuk | the libc still has to define the syscall | 12:14 |
| quitte | ah | 12:14 |
| quitte | it's already there. what is this nih thing? | 12:20 |
| Keybuk | it's the standard library that upstart uses | 12:23 |
| Keybuk | like glib, or something | 12:23 |
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