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| Lure | @schedule ljubljana | 01:40 |
|---|---|---|
| ubotu | Schedule for Europe/Ljubljana: 22 May 22:00: Technical Board | 23 May 22:00: Edubuntu | 24 May 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 25 May 14:00: MOTU | 27 May 16:00: LoCo Team | 29 May 17:00: Kernel Team | 01:40 |
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| highvoltage | @schedule | 06:24 |
| ubotu | Schedule for Etc/UTC: 22 May 20:00: Technical Board | 23 May 20:00: Edubuntu | 24 May 20:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 25 May 12:00: MOTU | 27 May 14:00: LoCo Team | 29 May 15:00: Kernel Team | 06:24 |
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| welshbyte | @now | 08:13 |
| ubotu | Current time in Etc/UTC: May 22 2007, 18:13:13 - Next meeting: Technical Board in 1 hour 46 minutes | 08:13 |
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| === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Technical Board | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 23 May 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 24 May 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 25 May 12:00 UTC: MOTU | 27 May 14:00 UTC: LoCo Team | 29 May 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | ||
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| __keybuk | mjg59: I don't have the context for that mail you sent | 10:02 |
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| mdz | __keybuk: forwarding to techboard | 10:04 |
| mdz | sent | 10:04 |
| mdz | we're up to date with MOTU applications from the MOTU council | 10:05 |
| mdz | and I'm not aware of any core-dev applications | 10:05 |
| dholbach | Hobbsee was proposed for core-dev | 10:05 |
| mdz | __keybuk: has anyone reminded sabdfl already? | 10:05 |
| mdz | dholbach: oh, did I miss an email? | 10:05 |
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| dholbach | and was recommended by a few people | 10:05 |
| dholbach | mdz: the problem is that the process is not clear yet | 10:05 |
| mdz | hence your agenda item | 10:05 |
| ajmitch | LaserJock also wanted in, iirc | 10:06 |
| LaserJock | oh sweet, not too late | 10:06 |
| mdz | dholbach: I think it should be handled similarly to ubuntu-dev | 10:06 |
| dholbach | passing on recommendations to the MC works fine via mailing list | 10:06 |
| dholbach | what do you think? how many recommendations by the MC would you want for that? all 5 or a simple majority? | 10:06 |
| dholbach | (before we pass it on to the TB) | 10:06 |
| LaserJock | mdz: so would there be any IRC component? or all email? | 10:07 |
| mdz | a simple majority is fine, though of course we want to hear from developers outside of the council as well | 10:07 |
| dholbach | right | 10:07 |
| dholbach | I'm happy with that - I'll drop you a mail with the summary about Hobbsee and make sure the new process is in the wiki docs and announced on the list | 10:08 |
| dholbach | does anybody else have questions regarding the new core-dev process? | 10:08 |
| mdz | LaserJock: I think that in most cases we'll want to do an interview as well | 10:08 |
| mdz | the application should arrive via email, and we can make arrangements from there | 10:08 |
| ajmitch | dholbach: yes, what is it? :) are people meant to put in an application to the MC? | 10:08 |
| LaserJock | well, I just would like to be clear on the whole process | 10:08 |
| LaserJock | not just the MC part | 10:08 |
| mdz | I think it's more useful to pass an application via email than to add a line item to the TB agenda | 10:08 |
| LaserJock | ah | 10:09 |
| dholbach | ajmitch: I don't think it matters in which order we get those mails, as long as we have recommendations and somebody who wants to become core-dev :) | 10:09 |
| dholbach | ajmitch: so if it's an application or a recommendation first shouldn't matter | 10:09 |
| ajmitch | right, as long as it's clear *what* is needed | 10:10 |
| dholbach | mdz: I think I'm happy with my agenda point now. | 10:10 |
| mdz | what's needed is the same thing as always: testimonials, information about the candidate's activities, demonstrated knowledge and understanding of Ubuntu development in accord with UbuntuDevelopers, etc. | 10:11 |
| mdz | traditionally we would collect some of the information on a wiki page | 10:11 |
| mdz | and I think that's probably still a good idea | 10:11 |
| mdz | putting it someplace public makes it easy for future candidates to understand what's expected | 10:12 |
| mdz | so I'm thinking of a process something like this: | 10:12 |
| mjg59 | Sorry, I'm here now | 10:13 |
| mdz | motu discusses their intent with the motu council, gets consensus that they are ready to apply, motu council collects relevant information and submits in a bundle to TB via a wiki page, TB review and respond, usually setting up an appointment to attend a meeting | 10:14 |
| mdz | (I just heard from sabdfl; he's unavailable) | 10:14 |
| mdz | __keybuk,mjg59: comments on that proposal? | 10:15 |
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| __keybuk | that sounds exactly like the procedure I thought we agreed on :p | 10:16 |
| mjg59 | Yes, I think that seems reasonable | 10:16 |
| mdz | __keybuk: I don't recall that we were explicit about core-dev | 10:16 |
| mdz | only about motu | 10:16 |
| __keybuk | maybe it's just sensible enough that it sounds like we ought to have agreed on it :p | 10:16 |
| mdz | well then, ok | 10:17 |
| mdz | it just needs to be documented then | 10:17 |
| dholbach | I'll take care of that | 10:18 |
| mdz | dholbach: would you update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewDeveloperProcess ? | 10:18 |
| mjg59 | dholbach: Thanks | 10:18 |
| dholbach | de rien | 10:18 |
| mdz | it's pretty close already | 10:18 |
| LaserJock | I guess I'm a little unsure about the "motu council collects relevant information" part | 10:18 |
| mdz | the only thing we changed was the way information is passed around, and the order | 10:18 |
| mdz | turning up for a meeting as the first thing has always been an obstacle | 10:19 |
| mdz | Hobbsee, if I'm not mistaken, would normally be asleep during TB meetings | 10:19 |
| mdz | and we don't want to discourage people from applying because of silly things like time zones | 10:19 |
| mjg59 | The impression I get is that the new process is working fairly well for MOTU | 10:20 |
| mdz | __keybuk and I independently noted that the meeting time ought to be adjusted for DST | 10:20 |
| mdz | mjg59: indeed, so we're following that lead in a way | 10:20 |
| mdz | I think it's a good idea to do more by email | 10:21 |
| mdz | which raises further questions about the meeting | 10:21 |
| mdz | we could, e.g., schedule the meeting based on who submits agenda items / applies for core-dev / etc. each time | 10:21 |
| mdz | to maximize attendance, at the expense of predictability | 10:22 |
| ajmitch | with all the TB in one TZ (I think), is that practical? | 10:22 |
| mjg59 | ajmitch: The plan is for the TB to be extended | 10:22 |
| mdz | in general, any two time zones can be accomodated at once | 10:22 |
| ajmitch | mjg59: so I heard, eventually :) | 10:22 |
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| mdz | so TB + applicant is a good combination | 10:22 |
| __keybuk | mjg59: the one nomination sabdfl has received so far happens to *also* be in the Europe/London timezone :p | 10:23 |
| mjg59 | Ha | 10:23 |
| mdz | it shouldn't be necessary to have third parties turn up at the meeting, generall. the tech board can raise any questions they have for them by email | 10:23 |
| mjg59 | We could send mdz back to the US | 10:23 |
| mjg59 | But anyway | 10:23 |
| mdz | so what would you like to do? move back an hour to stay at 20h London time? | 10:24 |
| mdz | hold meetings only as needed? | 10:24 |
| mjg59 | 21:00 is certainly a little too late to be convenient for me | 10:25 |
| mdz | regular meetings are good to keep us in contact and active | 10:25 |
| mjg59 | I'd be concerned that holding meetings as needed would make the TB less visible | 10:25 |
| mdz | if we all turn up and have nothing to talk about, that's not much better :-) | 10:25 |
| mjg59 | We don't want people who submit items to feel as if they're causing us inconvenience by forcing a meeting to be scheduled | 10:25 |
| mdz | good point | 10:26 |
| somerville32 | If we don't have anything to talk about, we could just have some tea instead. | 10:26 |
| mjg59 | As a compromise, leave meetings scheduled but cancel them unless there's something on the agenda? | 10:26 |
| mdz | we could hold meetings at 20h, but be open to adjusting to accomodate someone with an important cause (like joining core-dev) | 10:26 |
| mjg59 | Yes, that seems fair | 10:27 |
| mdz | __keybuk: thoughts? | 10:27 |
| LaserJock | well, you could always send an email to -devel-discuss asking for things for the TB to talk about ;-) | 10:27 |
| mjg59 | I think people might also prefer a more obvious mechanism for causing things to be raised | 10:27 |
| mdz | more obvious than sending email to technical-board? | 10:28 |
| __keybuk | I think that opportunistically cancelling or rescheduling the meeting would create the same effect as not scheduling in the first place | 10:28 |
| mjg59 | I think the docs suggest just adding things to the agenda? | 10:28 |
| mdz | they do | 10:28 |
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| mdz | but email works as well if not better, I think | 10:28 |
| mjg59 | Right | 10:29 |
| mjg59 | Then we should fix them to state that :) | 10:29 |
| mdz | I'll take that action item | 10:29 |
| mjg59 | It also gives us the opportunity to ask people for more details | 10:29 |
| __keybuk | I also thing that the value of regular meetings of the TB is less than the value of regular meetings of the CC, since the latter is primarily community-driven wherease we're primarily resolving technical disputes (which happily come up hardly at all) | 10:29 |
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| mjg59 | I will note that we're poor at cancelling meetings even when it's fairly clear that they're not going ahead | 10:30 |
| mjg59 | Like during UDS | 10:30 |
| mjg59 | Right now the schedule shows us having one during Ubuntu Live | 10:31 |
| mdz | (TechnicalBoardAgenda updated) | 10:31 |
| mjg59 | mdz: The ubuntu.com page wants updating as well | 10:32 |
| __keybuk | I think that my preference would be to request matters via e-mail | 10:32 |
| mjg59 | Yes, I think I agree | 10:32 |
| __keybuk | and if the matter requires online discussion, arrange a meeting on IRC to discuss that item | 10:32 |
| somerville32 | Isn't it entirely possible that TB members could subscribe to changes for that page? | 10:32 |
| __keybuk | rather than have a fixed schedule for the meetings | 10:33 |
| somerville32 | Ah. | 10:33 |
| mdz | mjg59: good catch, I'll email webmaster about that | 10:33 |
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| mjg59 | somerville32: It's slightly irritating to then have to track that back to somebody's email address | 10:33 |
| mjg59 | And relevant people can't easily be Cc:ed to begin with | 10:33 |
| __keybuk | I also think that we should be more diligent about announcing resolutions, at least to devel or devel-announce -- including new team memebrs | 10:33 |
| mdz | agreed | 10:34 |
| mdz | we need a secretary | 10:34 |
| mjg59 | Any volunteers? :) | 10:34 |
| === pochu poinst to Seveas :p | ||
| mdz | I'm sure we've resolved this at least once before | 10:35 |
| pochu | s/poinst/points/ | 10:35 |
| mdz | and then fallen out of the habit of posting the outcome of meetings, after several meetings without activity | 10:35 |
| mjg59 | Yes, I think so | 10:35 |
| mdz | I'll do one for this meeting | 10:35 |
| mjg59 | Ok | 10:36 |
| mjg59 | I think we've reached broad agreement over meeting plans | 10:36 |
| mdz | ok | 10:36 |
| mdz | any other business? | 10:36 |
| __keybuk | have we? | 10:36 |
| __keybuk | I thought we still had four options and no clear decision | 10:36 |
| __keybuk | 1) retain existing schedule | 10:36 |
| __keybuk | 2) alter meeting schedule for daylight savings | 10:36 |
| __keybuk | 3) 1 or 2, but reschedule or cancel meetings depending on agenda items | 10:36 |
| __keybuk | 4) ad-hoc schedule meetings to discuss items as and when they are proposed | 10:36 |
| mjg59 | Ah, I thought we were leaning towards (4) | 10:37 |
| mjg59 | As long as we're good at posting outcomes, I think we'll retain enough visibility | 10:37 |
| mdz | another option would be to come up with something which is useful for us to do together every week | 10:38 |
| mdz | s/week/two weeks/ | 10:38 |
| Seveas | pochu, ? | 10:38 |
| mjg59 | Paintballing | 10:38 |
| __keybuk | mjg59++ | 10:38 |
| pochu | Seveas: < mdz> we need a secretary | 10:38 |
| pochu | :) | 10:38 |
| Seveas | heh | 10:39 |
| pochu | You have experience, don't you? ;) | 10:39 |
| Seveas | a bit | 10:39 |
| mdz | mjg59: I was thinking something more like reviewing the work which was done on Ubuntu during the week | 10:39 |
| mjg59 | Ha | 10:39 |
| mjg59 | Yes, ok | 10:39 |
| __keybuk | we kind of already do that every week anyway, no? | 10:39 |
| mdz | we do, but individually | 10:39 |
| mdz | we don't get together and talk about it | 10:40 |
| mjg59 | That arguably gives us an opportunity to ensure things are sane | 10:40 |
| mdz | and that might be healthy to do | 10:40 |
| __keybuk | that's an interesting point | 10:40 |
| mdz | if our only official meeting activity is resolving disputes, we won't have much to say | 10:40 |
| mjg59 | I think I'd be happy with that | 10:40 |
| mdz | the Ubuntu developer community being such a well-oiled machine | 10:41 |
| __keybuk | we'd need some intelligent way to define "work done on Ubuntu during the week" | 10:41 |
| mdz | and then the minutes from that meeting would be a good wrap-up for the community about what's happened | 10:41 |
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| mdz | sounds like something we should talk through by email, it was just a random idea | 10:42 |
| mdz | can we settle on implementing 2) immediately and discussing other options via email? | 10:42 |
| mjg59 | Yes, ok | 10:42 |
| mdz | done | 10:42 |
| __keybuk | I can live with that :) | 10:42 |
| mjg59 | It'll do for now | 10:42 |
| mjg59 | Are we onto AOB? | 10:42 |
| mdz | yes | 10:43 |
| mjg59 | We've received a request to take a look at Automatix - I think that's a reasonable request given the degree of interaction with the rest of the distribution | 10:43 |
| mjg59 | I've already taken a look over the code, so I'll write up a review document and sent it to the list? | 10:44 |
| mdz | yes, it's due for another look | 10:44 |
| mdz | mjg59: oh, fantastic | 10:44 |
| mdz | I looked at the last version, but haven't looked at the new one | 10:44 |
| mjg59 | Ok. I'll do that, then we can discuss it at the next meeting? | 10:44 |
| mdz | sure | 10:44 |
| __keybuk | sure | 10:44 |
| mjg59 | It's probably worth noting it on the agenda, in case the developers want to provide any feedback | 10:44 |
| mdz | ok | 10:45 |
| mjg59 | I've got nothing else - anyone else? | 10:45 |
| mdz | I suggested via email that in fact we have the discussion in an open forem | 10:45 |
| mdz | forum, even | 10:45 |
| mdz | ok, sounds like we're done | 10:47 |
| mdz | good night, all | 10:47 |
| mjg59 | Ok | 10:47 |
| mjg59 | Thanks! | 10:47 |
| === pochu wonders whether the technical-board list is open to the public. | ||
| somerville32 | I have a quick question. | 10:47 |
| pochu | I can't find it on l.u.c | 10:47 |
| mdz | pochu: it's not a list as such, ti's just a contact address for the technical board | 10:48 |
| mdz | so that you can email us all at one address | 10:48 |
| mjg59 | pochu: It's deliberately not publically archived | 10:48 |
| pochu | mdz: That explains it. Thanks :) | 10:48 |
| mjg59 | In order to allow confidental stuff to be brought up | 10:48 |
| mjg59 | If we have a public discussion, it'll be in a more obvious place :) | 10:48 |
| pochu | Sure thing. But then you might want to change the address to @ubuntu.com instead of @lists.ubuntu.com? :) | 10:49 |
| mjg59 | Yea, that's an implementation detail | 10:49 |
| pochu | Yeah, nothing important. | 10:49 |
| mjg59 | It's probably a reasonable idea, though | 10:49 |
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