[12:14] <jmg_> crimsun: thanks
[12:17] <gnomefreak> crimsun: this is for dapper
[12:18] <gnomefreak> dapper used libnspr-dev afaik
[12:18] <crimsun> gnomefreak: what does the config.log show you?
[12:18] <gnomefreak> the error part?
[12:18] <crimsun> sure
[12:18] <ajmitch> what does the m4 code check for?
[12:18] <gnomefreak> checking again for Mozilla nspr4 includes in /usr/include/mozilla/nspr... no
[12:18] <gnomefreak> configure: error: --with-nspr-includes was specified, but nspr.h and prio.h were not there.
[12:18] <minghua> gnomefreak: in any case, I think a package build depending on a libxxx package is wrong, it should build depend on libxxx-dev
[12:19] <gnomefreak> minghua: thats what i meant sorry
[12:19] <crimsun> gnomefreak: as ajmitch mentioned, look at what the m4 bits check for.  You can see that in configure.
[12:19] <crimsun> gnomefreak: and config.log is more verbose than what you pasted.  Hopefully.
[12:19] <gnomefreak> im looking but m4 wasnt a build-dep
[12:20] <minghua> gnomefreak: then I don't understand you comment about using the version in shlib
[12:20] <nixternal> AHHHH I GOT IT!
[12:20] <gnomefreak> crimsun: ill pastebin the config.log i dont see m4
[12:21] <nixternal> stupid diff and debdiff can't read chars worth a poo
[12:21] <gnomefreak> minghua: if libnspr-dev is used as build-dep without a version it uses the version installed?
[12:22] <gnomefreak> crimsun: ajmitch http://gnomefreak.pastebin.ca/501180
[12:22] <minghua> gnomefreak: it should use whatever currently is in the archive/build environment
[12:22] <ajmitch> gnomefreak: m4 isn't a dependency, but that's how configure is built 
[12:22] <ajmitch> it's a bit easier to read than the several hundred KB of resulting shell script
[12:22] <gnomefreak> firefox and tb adn so on all have m4 as a build-dep so i wasnt sure 
[12:23] <minghua> gnomefreak: and if libnspr-dev is installed in the build environment, then yes, it will use that
[12:23] <gnomefreak> and its not :(
[12:23] <ajmitch> so what does libnspr-dev supply?
[12:24] <gnomefreak> the 2 files it states it cant find
[12:24] <gnomefreak> + more
[12:24] <minghua> "--with-nspr-includes=/usr/include/mozilla/nspr" in the invocation of configure
[12:24] <ajmitch> you say that the package (libnspr-dev) is definitely installed where you are building?
[12:24] <minghua> is that where libnspr-dev installs stuff?
[12:24] <crimsun> minghua just pointed out the problem.
[12:25] <crimsun> you're providing the wrong path.
[12:25] <gnomefreak> i didnt give a path
[12:25] <crimsun> are you build-depending on mozilla-dev or firefox-dev?
[12:25] <gnomefreak> firefox
[12:25] <gnomefreak> backporting ffox2.0
[12:25] <gnomefreak> well testing them atm
[12:25] <crimsun> usr/include/firefox/nspr/prio.h    libdevel/libnspr-dev
[12:25] <crimsun> note the explicit change.
[12:27] <gnomefreak> --with-nss-includes=/usr/include/mozilla/nss \ --with-nspr-includes=/usr/include/mozilla/nspr \  should be firefox instead of mozilla?
[12:27] <crimsun> correct, according to packages.ubuntu.com for dapper.
[12:29] <ajmitch> hello Hobbsee 
[12:29] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: back to normal time now? :)
[12:30] <Hobbsee> hi ajmitch 
[12:31] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: sorta
[12:32] <gnomefreak> i shouldnt need to rebuild orig.tar on a rules file chage right?
[12:32] <ajmitch> definitely not
[12:32] <gnomefreak> sweet :)
[12:32] <ajmitch> orig.tar.gz should only be rebuilt if absolutely necessary
[12:33] <nixternal> ScottK: http://librarian.launchpad.net/7732080/courier.debdiff   <- The YAY!!! Edition
[12:34] <gnomefreak> looks like it worked :) thank you guys
[12:35] <welshbyte> now there's one MS's marketing dept missed - "The YAY!!! Starts Today"
[12:35] <welshbyte> catchy :)
[12:36] <nixternal> hehe
[12:36] <nixternal> hrmm, it is catchy
[12:36] <nixternal> let me patent that really quick
[12:36] <welshbyte> :)
[12:36] <nixternal> the yay is a series of ....
[12:36] <nixternal> that is all I need
[12:36] <crimsun> sorry, prior art by multiple 12 yr-old girls.
[12:37] <nixternal> I received the latest Information Week today, and they have a gun to tux'es head saying "Play by our rules or the penguin gets it"
[12:37] <nixternal> there are a couple of great lines in the article though
[12:37] <ajmitch> crimsun: as they catch the first glimpse of the pony in the backyard?
[12:37] <crimsun> ajmitch: =)
[12:38] <nixternal> "Windows itself gets tied up in litigation, stalling releases for years. Meantime, ipen source apps...pile up innovation after innovation and pick off customers."
[12:39] <nixternal> "After years of litigation, the Windows franchise, which had looked invincible, is weakened, open source code gains ground, and Microsoft's patent bluff has been called."
[12:43] <jmg_> I'm trying to educate a vendor (scalix) about the importance of correctly checking dependencies
[12:49] <jmg_> is there a packaging guide that walks through the steps of determining dependencies?
[12:49] <Hobbsee> jmg_: not apart from general knowledge, and a pbuilder, i believe
[12:49] <Hobbsee> ie, keep working in a pbuilder until it fails
[12:50] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Until it succeeds, you mean?
[12:50] <persia> jmg_: If it's a C package, you can often look in configure or Makefile (or the files that create them) to discover what libraries the builds want.  Using this list as Build-Depends is a good start.
[12:50] <Fujitsu> (morning)
[12:51] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: er, yes
[12:51] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: and good morning
[12:51] <TheMuso> Morning folks.
[12:51] <Hobbsee> hi TheMuso 
[12:52] <Fujitsu> Hi TheMuso.
[12:52] <crimsun> from devel scrollback, I am frightened.
[12:52] <crimsun> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=450251
[12:52] <crimsun> checkinstall is the WORST place to start.
[12:52] <Hobbsee> crimsun: that hte crack package manager?
[12:52] <Hobbsee> heh
[12:52] <Fujitsu> Oh yes, saw that.
[12:53] <Fujitsu> I think everybody did a good job of ignoring it, and it went away... to the forums :(
[12:55] <TheMuso> /c
[12:55] <TheMuso> ugh
[12:55] <zul___> crimsun: it could be worse
[12:56] <TheMuso> gnomefreak: thats weird
[12:56] <zul___> crimsun: *cough* ebuild *cough*
[12:56] <gnomefreak> it was
[12:56] <minghua> well, checkinstall is usually a very welcomed thing in user forums
[12:59] <crimsun> arguably "we" should make it so that checkinstall is unnecessary
[01:00] <crimsun> (unrealistic, but we can dream)
[01:00] <Fujitsu> I'm not sure how we'd do that.
[01:00] <minghua> dream, yes
[01:01] <persia> Fujitsu: We'd instantly package every piece of software written, as it's written, without fail :)
[01:01] <Fujitsu> Sure, as well as maintaining the rest.
[01:02] <Hobbsee> you cant.
[01:02] <Fujitsu> You can
[01:02] <Fujitsu> *can't destroy them!
[01:03] <Hobbsee> sure i can!
[01:04] <crimsun> good thing we have copies!
[01:04] <ScottK> nixternal: Looking at it now.
[01:05] <ScottK> Hello leonel.
[01:05] <persia> Does anyone use sbuild/schroot/LVM?  If so, could they confirm bug 116091 (or is it just me?).
[01:05] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 116091 in sbuild "sbuild with schroot and LVM fails to clean up properly" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/116091
[01:05] <leonel> hey ScottK  
[01:05] <leonel> just returning  
[01:05] <nixternal> ScottK: courier gave me a workout I needed....I am going to be cautious with diff and debdiff when it comes to funky chars
[01:08] <ScottK> nixternal: Yes, as I said, educational.  Patch applied this time.  I'm about to build it.
[01:08] <crimsun> Hobbsee: / ajmitch: / ScottK: / persia: what times this Wed, Thurs, and Fri are suitable?
[01:08] <crimsun> [for an MOTU meeting] 
[01:08] <Hobbsee> in UTC timezone, presumably?
[01:08] <crimsun> Hobbsee: yes, please.
[01:09] <Hobbsee> um...
[01:09] <persia> I prefer 22:00 - 02:00 or 13:00 - 17:00 UTC
[01:09] <Fujitsu> Yay, LP internal server error.
[01:09] <Hobbsee> my thursday is shocking, which i think is your wednesday/thursday
[01:09] <crimsun> I'm pretty flexible this week, so whenever y'all are good.
[01:10] <persia> Hobbsee: late evening
[01:10] <Fujitsu> persia: I tried to set it up, but couldn't get it to do much. I had to manually tell it to remove the snapshots after a reboot.
[01:10] <Hobbsee> 11pm
[01:11] <TheMuso> Friday from about 6:00UTC onwards is not good for me.
[01:11] <persia> Fujitsu: For every package?  I only have to do that as described in the bug.
[01:11] <TheMuso> Sorry, 7:00UTC
[01:11] <Hobbsee> which i believe is still wednesday for eveyone else
[01:11] <Fujitsu> persia: My setup is completely broken, so it's unlikely to be the same.
[01:12] <Hobbsee> that is still wednesday UTC time, isnt it?
[01:12] <Fujitsu> That's even good for me. Wow.
[01:12] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Yes.
[01:12] <Hobbsee> good
[01:12] <Hobbsee> crimsun: ^ is the consensus
[01:12] <persia> Fujitsu: Ah.  If you paste your errors somewhere, I'd be happy to help you track it down :)
[01:13] <Hobbsee> i couldnt guarentee to be home by that point on thursday
[01:13] <ScottK> crimsun: I would definitely be availalble Wed 12 - 1400  and 1500 - 2130 UTC and Thu/Fri 1200 - 2130 UTC.
[01:13] <Hobbsee> actually, i should be able to.  it shouldnt all go to hell tha tmuch
[01:14] <Fujitsu> I think it's probably partly because my home directory isn't in fstab; it's LUKSed and mounted manually when I log in. It seems to get a bit confused.
[01:14] <persia> ajmitch: Is that too late for you?
 my thursday is shocking, which i think is your wednesday/thursday  <-- Just  courious   Where are you ??
[01:14] <persia> Fujitsu: Yep.  That would do it.
[01:15] <Fujitsu> persia: It'll be 1am for him.
[01:15] <Hobbsee> leonel: sydney, australia
[01:15] <leonel> Hobbsee: ok I see
[01:15] <persia> Fujitsu: It's still summer time in NZ?
[01:15] <Fujitsu> I don't think so.
[01:16] <LaserJock> sweet, 1300UTC is 6:00am for me :-)
[01:17] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: We should probably make it a little earlier, then. You need to get a taste of what we have to put up with!
[01:17] <LaserJock> hehe
[01:17] <LaserJock> I made a few 4:00am LP meetings
[01:18] <Hobbsee> urgh
[01:18] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: yes you should
[01:18] <ajmitch> nah
[01:19] <ajmitch> no reason for me to do so
[01:19] <LaserJock> I think everything should be 03:00UTC :-)
[01:19] <Fujitsu> ajmitch: Attend.
[01:19] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: 1pm. Not too bad.
[01:19] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: why?
[01:19] <LaserJock> because it helps when people show up
[01:19] <LaserJock> especially people who's opinion we value
[01:19] <LaserJock> such as yourself
[01:19] <Fujitsu> ajmitch: What LaserJock said.
[01:20] <ajmitch> my opinion is not particularly useful at that time of night
[01:20] <Hobbsee> heh
[01:21] <Fujitsu> Anybody got any points for the agenda?
[01:21] <persia> ajmitch: Propose a different time - when is good for you?
[01:21] <joejaxx> are non-motus allowed to attend?
[01:22] <persia> Fujitsu: I need to check my list, but if it's at such a convenient time, I'd like to cover mentoring and UUS workflow.
[01:22] <TheMuso> joejaxx: Of course.
[01:22] <ajmitch> persia: any time I suggest will be very inconvenient to others - I've made it to previous MOTU meetings, so it's other peoples' turns
[01:22] <chillywilly> hi
[01:23] <LaserJock> joejaxx: it's highly recommended that MOTU Hopefuls and people interested in MOTU attend
[01:23] <joejaxx> ok
[01:24] <LaserJock> ok, agenda ...
[01:24] <LaserJock> did we decide on REVU cleanup?
[01:24] <TheMuso> autosync?
[01:24] <ScottK> I'd like clamav on the agenda.  I'll write mail to the motu list on the matter,
[01:24] <LaserJock> I think we could at least go over autosync
[01:25] <LaserJock> although it sounds like it might be a no-go
[01:25] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: What makes you think that?
[01:26] <LaserJock> I wonder if it can even be implemented
[01:26] <ajmitch> persia: more convenient for me would be 1100UTC, or 1200UTC if really necessary
[01:27] <LaserJock> that would probably work for people other than US time zones
[01:27] <ajmitch> exactly
[01:27] <persia> ajmitch: Either works for me.  ScottK sait 12:00 worked earlier.  LaserJock?
[01:27] <Hobbsee> in that case, day bump --> friday?
[01:27] <LaserJock> well, who cares about us Americans ;-)
[01:27] <Hobbsee> seeing as i'm out on wednesday night, and cant sneak off early, as i'm not the driver
[01:27] <Hobbsee> hehe
[01:27] <joejaxx> LaserJock: ;)
[01:28] <Fujitsu> I can possibly make that, though I might be a few minutes late.
[01:28] <LaserJock> everybody knows it's the Germans and Aussies that rule around here ;-)
[01:28] <Hobbsee> of course.
[01:28] <crimsun> joejaxx: / LaserJock: / ScottK: / geser: / persia: is 1100 UTC this Friday feasible?
[01:28] <ajmitch> so making a decision on time without input from any europeans isn't so great, but oh well
[01:29] <joejaxx> crimsun: sounds good
[01:29] <persia> crimsun: I should be able to make that.
[01:29] <crimsun> hey, I did include Michael...
[01:29] <shawarma> I actually think I can make it for once.
[01:29] <shawarma> If anyone cares.
[01:29] <shawarma> :)
[01:29] <ajmitch> shawarma: of course we care
[01:29] <crimsun> shawarma: which time & date?
[01:29] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: from when, local?
[01:29] <TheMuso> Hobbsee: 5pm
[01:29] <shawarma> Ah, just say the 1100 UTC friday thing.
[01:30] <shawarma> that's the only suggestion I noticed..
[01:30] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: all night?  damn.
[01:30] <crimsun> TheMuso has a hot date with espeak. :-)
[01:30] <TheMuso> Hobbsee: Well I'm going out, so will probably be returning late, and won't feel like sitting in front of the computer.
[01:30] <joejaxx> lol
[01:30] <Hobbsee> ooo!
[01:30] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: fair enough
[01:30] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: oh.  SLUG.
[01:30] <TheMuso> Hobbsee: Nope.
[01:31] <TheMuso> Hobbsee: Going to see a performance up here at Katoomba.
[01:31] <shawarma> 1100 or 1200 are both fine for me.
[01:31] <Hobbsee> ooh :)
[01:31] <ScottK> crimsun: No.  That's right when I"m in the middle of getting my kids out the door to school.  1145 UTC is the earliest.
[01:31] <TheMuso> Hobbsee: It is, but I'm not going this month.
[01:31] <Hobbsee> ahh
[01:31] <ScottK> 1200UTC is better
[01:31] <crimsun> shawarma: / ajmitch: / geser: ok, 1200 UTC this Friday still feasible?
[01:31] <StevenK> However, 1200UTC is 2am for us stuck in .au
[01:31] <Fujitsu> StevenK: Uh, no... 10pm.
[01:32] <TheMuso> crimsun: heh. If I'm doing anything with espeak, its feeling like throwing the builds out the door. Powerpc and amd64 of espeak decided to fail, because dpatch wants to have a fit. I can build espeak here fine however.
[01:32] <Hobbsee> StevenK: uh, no it's not?
[01:32] <shawarma> crimsun: Sure.
[01:32] <persia> StevenK: Are you sure?  Should be 19:00 - 22:00, depending on where you are.
[01:32] <StevenK> Right, I'm counting the wrong blanking way.
[01:32] <TheMuso> How many bloody pacages must I touch that fail on the bloody builds, yet work fine here!!?? :S
[01:32] <Fujitsu> TheMuso: ALL of them.
[01:32] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: the buildds are dying.  or were.  
[01:32] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: what was teh buildlog?
[01:32] <Fujitsu> persia: Where are you?
[01:32] <shawarma> For me anything >=1100 works.
[01:32] <persia> Fujitsu: Tokyo
[01:32] <Hobbsee> StevenK: use kclock.  it's on your kicker.
[01:32] <TheMuso> Hobbsee: hang on a sec.
[01:32] <joejaxx> persia: nice
[01:32] <crimsun> Hobbsee: you really like to rub it in, eh? ;)
[01:32] <Fujitsu> persia: Ah.
[01:33] <ajmitch> crimsun: barely so, but I'm the only kiwi here :)
[01:33] <StevenK> Hobbsee: I have, but it doesn't help me see times in the future.
[01:33] <TheMuso> Hobbsee: http://librarian.launchpad.net/7726876/buildlog_ubuntu-gutsy-powerpc.espeak_1.25-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[01:33] <Hobbsee> StevenK: it gives you current UTC, which you can use to calculate
[01:33] <Hobbsee> crimsun: of course.  it's useful
[01:33] <crimsun> :-)
[01:33] <TheMuso> Same hapens for amd64.
[01:33] <shawarma> TheMuso: Yeah, dpatch is b0rken.
[01:33] <TheMuso> Yet sparc and i386 built fine.
[01:33] <TheMuso> great!!
[01:33] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: have you asked infinity/an archive admin about that?
[01:33] <TheMuso> Hobbsee: Not yet.
[01:34] <TheMuso> Mostly asleep they are.
[01:34] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: what's 0600 local?
[01:34] <Hobbsee> true
[01:34] <StevenK> It's dpatch, not a buildd specific thing?
[01:34] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: 4pm.
[01:34] <TheMuso> But dpatch works fine here...
[01:34] <TheMuso> StevenK: I know.
[01:34] <shawarma> StevenK: It's dpatch on the buildd's, apparantly.
[01:34] <Fujitsu> The buildds are strange creatures, they can fail in strange places.
[01:34] <crimsun> hopefully 1200 UTC is feasible for some EU folks
[01:34] <shawarma> StevenK: dholbach was having problems earlier.
[01:34] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: ah right.  so i'm >0800 - 1500 UTC on friday
[01:34] <persia> crimsun: Lunchtime, maybe?
[01:34] <StevenK> What's wrong with the buildds?
[01:35] <Fujitsu> StevenK: They keep doing stupid stuff.
[01:35] <LaserJock> they are probably dist-upgraded from potatoe ;-)
[01:35] <StevenK> Debian potato doesn't have an e.
[01:35] <LaserJock> or was that potato
[01:35] <shawarma> Oh, the horror!
[01:35] <Fujitsu> s/e//
[01:35] <persia> LaserJock: They're not *that* old!  woody, maybe.
[01:35] <crimsun> ok, do we have a rough consensus on 1200 UTC this Friday for the next MOTU meeting?
[01:36] <Fujitsu> That's good with me.
[01:36] <shawarma> +1
[01:36] <ScottK> +1 from me
[01:36] <persia> Sure
[01:36] <StevenK> crimsun: Sounds fine to me too.
[01:36] <TheMuso> Have fun guys.
[01:36] <joejaxx> +1
[01:36] <Fujitsu> Well, that's 6 attending so far. Impressive!
[01:36] <LaserJock> I'm +0 as it'll be 5:00 am for me but I wasn't really thinking I could attend
[01:37] <persia> LaserJock: +0 or -1?
[01:37] <LaserJock> +0
[01:37] <joejaxx> :)
[01:37] <joejaxx> grr
[01:37] <LaserJock> not -0 because I think it's a good time
[01:37] <crimsun> strong tea or coffee.
[01:37] <joejaxx> anyone know what times popey is usually on?
[01:37] <Hobbsee> crimsun: +1
[01:38] <crimsun> joejaxx: he was active in -doc around 0400 UTC
[01:38] <joejaxx> hmm
[01:39] <crimsun> sorry, 0500 UTC.
[01:39] <joejaxx> crimsun: thanks
[01:39] <Hobbsee> ScottK: fast machine.
[01:39] <joejaxx> LaserJock: is there anyway we can talk about the statistics?
[01:39] <Hobbsee> ScottK: you could try using brandons, but i am building kdelibs on it too
[01:40] <shawarma> joejaxx: He's in the UK, so UTC+1.
[01:40] <StevenK> Hobbsee: Hah. My machine is quicker.
[01:40] <joejaxx> shawarma: ah ok
[01:40] <LaserJock> joejaxx: as far as what we'd like from you? :-)
[01:40] <joejaxx> LaserJock: yeah
[01:40] <LaserJock> sure add it to the agenda
[01:41] <ScottK> My build stuff and I don't care if it breaks machine is a P-III 700 w/256MB of RAM.  Building stuff of any size is slow.
[01:41] <joejaxx> oh no not the netsplits :\
[01:41] <Hobbsee> ScottK: ssh <lp id>@aurora.ubuntuwire.com for amd64/i386, or @sparky.ubuntuwire.com for sparc
[01:41] <Fujitsu> joejaxx: I don't think we want the statistics. They'll be too depressing.
[01:42] <StevenK> ScottK: That's ... slow. My fileserver is quicker than that.
[01:42] <ajmitch> ScottK: worked through u-u-s yet?
[01:42] <joejaxx> uh
[01:42] <joejaxx> is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings the right page for the agenda?
[01:43] <joejaxx> it says April 26th
[01:43] <persia> joejaxx: That's the right page.
[01:43] <TheMuso> c
[01:43] <TheMuso> ugh
[01:43] <joejaxx> persia: ok
[01:43] <crimsun> joejaxx: right, persia has the lock on that page, so I'm refraining from editing.
[01:43] <persia> crimsun: I'm done
[01:43] <ScottK> ajmitch: I looked at it.  Didn't find anything left I was immediately comfortable with tackling.  I'll have more time tomorrow and look again.
[01:44] <joejaxx> crimsun: ok
[01:44] <StevenK> Hobbsee: Actually aurora isn't amd64, it's only i386.
[01:44] <StevenK> (lm isn't in the CPU flags)
[01:47] <ScottK> Hobbsee: Looks like I haven't been added yet.  Will try again later I guess.
[01:47] <Hobbsee> ahh
[01:47] <Fujitsu> I'm not sure how often that script runs, or if it even works any more (it was written by me, so is probably b0rked)
[01:47] <persia> ScottK: The keys take a couple days to sync.  Ping im,brandon if you need access sooner.
[01:47] <crimsun> ok, MOTUMenuHeader & MOTU/Meetings updated; drafting email to -motu and -devel-discuss
[01:48] <ScottK> StevenK: It's my laptop (It's ancient, but generally good enough for things I need a laptop for).  I just keep a spare HD and HD carrier so I can swap the known good drive back in and get real work done if needed.
[01:48] <ajmitch> crimsun: thanks
[01:48] <StevenK> ScottK: Ah.
[01:48] <ScottK> persia: Thanks.  No rush.
[01:48] <ajmitch> sounds like someone needs to donate some hardware
[01:49] <LaserJock> hmm
[01:51] <LaserJock> time to hit up Mark for some "Let's make Universe rock" funds? ;-)
[01:51] <Fujitsu> Is anybody adding the autosync extension item, or shall I?
[01:51] <StevenK> And do what? Donate 3GHz amd64's to every MOTU?
[01:51] <persia> LaserJock: To add ia64 & amd64 to ubuntuwire (and a faster sparc)?
[01:52] <joejaxx> Fujitsu: autosync?
[01:52] <crimsun> nixternal: can you add the MOTU meeting time to fridge?
[01:52] <StevenK> persia: A slightly faster sparc is waiting to be racked up.
[01:52] <nixternal> I sure can
[01:52] <ajmitch> StevenK: sounds good to me
[01:52] <Fujitsu> joejaxx: Yes, getting the autosync for universe extended, and working out the issues that come with it.
[01:52] <crimsun> nixternal: (this Friday, May 25th, 12:00 UTC in #ubuntu-meeting/Freenode)
[01:52] <nixternal> agenda link?
[01:52] <joejaxx> Fujitsu: ah ok
[01:52] <Fujitsu> nixternal: MOTU/Meetings
[01:52] <nixternal> thanks
[01:52] <ajmitch> nixternal: drinking & general merriment
[01:53] <persia> Fujitsu: Do we want to do that for everything?  Perhaps just parse to not collect new upstream versions?
[01:53] <Fujitsu> persia: The consensus was the we extend it until at least UVF.
[01:53] <Fujitsu> *that
[01:53] <LaserJock> persia: no, a new laptop for every MOTU :-)
[01:53] <joejaxx> oh
[01:53] <Fujitsu> If we just do it to UVF, that checking isn't necessary.
[01:53] <persia> Fujitsu: Ah, yes.  Anything prior to UVF sounds good to me.
[01:53] <joejaxx> LaserJock: what about lintian?
[01:54] <nixternal> crimsun: posted
[01:54] <joejaxx> and having lintian reports generated
[01:54] <persia> LaserJock: We'd end up with ClassmatePCs :)
[01:54] <LaserJock> doh
[01:54] <StevenK> Lintian seems pretty crap for us.
[01:54] <StevenK> Linda seems to be slightly better.
[01:54] <joejaxx> so when the lp buildd build we can get reports
[01:54] <Fujitsu> StevenK: You're a bit biased, surely?
[01:54] <joejaxx> StevenK: well lintian was just an example
[01:55] <persia> StevenK: You could always patch lintian :)
[01:55] <joejaxx> we could have linda
[01:55] <StevenK> persia: Which tool did I write? :-P
[01:55] <ajmitch> depends if we can trust linda's author to be sane
[01:55] <Hobbsee> we cant.
[01:55] <ajmitch> that's what I was worried about
[01:55] <LaserJock> burn 'em!
[01:55] <Hobbsee> hehe
[01:55] <StevenK> Fujitsu: Maybe a little. In this case, Lintian keeps giving spurious changelog warnings.
[01:55] <joejaxx> :P
[01:56] <Fujitsu> I really think LP should be doing more of this stuff :(
[01:56] <Fujitsu> StevenK: Linda doesn't? I must admit I generally use lintian.
[01:56] <joejaxx> Fujitsu: well the linda/lintian issue would be done by the lp buildds
[01:56] <StevenK> Thanks for the vote of confidence.
[01:56] <joejaxx> i am assuming that is
[01:56] <joejaxx> unless someone wants to run lintian/linda after the fact on the archive
[01:57] <Fujitsu> joejaxx: Hah, how do you expect that something to our benefit like that would get into LP?
[01:57] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: bitter, much?
[01:57] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: ppa's exist, remember...
[01:57] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: now now, no need to get all cynical ;-)
[01:57] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: you've seen how Fujitsu is on the forums... you know he's bitter
[01:57] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Not yet, and that's not entirely beneficial.
[01:57] <Hobbsee> hha
[01:57] <joejaxx> Fujitsu: i do not know we could almost ask
[01:57] <Hobbsee> the forums have *made* him bitter
[01:57] <joejaxx> bah
[01:57] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: they do exist.  we saw it at UDS
[01:57] <joejaxx> s/almost/always/g
[01:58] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: no, he was bitter before that
[01:58] <Hobbsee> ahh
[01:58] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Ah! How do they look?
[01:58] <joejaxx> Hobbsee: PPA is nice
[01:58] <joejaxx> Fujitsu: it is really nice
[01:58] <joejaxx> they way they are/have them setup
[01:58] <joejaxx> the*
[01:58] <LaserJock> all I've seen is it looks like PPA is slated for LP 1.1.5
[01:58] <Fujitsu> But I have issues with PPA. It makes it that much easier for people to make unofficial repos.
[01:58] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: nice.  but i'm not sure where the documentation on them is
[01:58] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: we saw them on the last day
[01:58] <LaserJock> or was that 1.5
[01:58] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: That's what I mentioned in here yesterday... It's due in 2 days.
[01:59] <joejaxx> LaserJock: i forget what build it is for
[01:59] <LaserJock> I saw a bunch of PPA LP bugs get retargeted the other day
[01:59] <Fujitsu> But the bug about LP not being free is targeted for 1.1.6 (June 21st), so I don't think those milestones are meaningful.
[01:59] <joejaxx> LaserJock: would lin{da,tian} be a topic for the agenda or would that be outside of motu
[01:59] <LaserJock> and I know they have a working PPA, it's a matter of when they'll release it
[02:00] <ajmitch> interesting to see these random version numbers
[02:00] <persia> joejaxx: Consensus can be built in the meeting, but someone would need to chase the LP team to do anything.
[02:00] <Fujitsu> ajmitch: 1.1, then the month number.
[02:00] <ajmitch> LaserJock: not for awhile yet, there's UI lacking
[02:00] <joejaxx> persia: ok then i will add it to the agenda then
[02:00] <ajmitch> anyway, I'm off for lunch, see you all later :)
[02:00] <LaserJock> if only there was somebody to chase up the LP team ...
[02:00] <Fujitsu> Bye, ajmitch.
[02:01] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: Isn't that your task?
[02:01] <persia> LaserJock: Someone might volunteer in the meeting, especially if they've put it on the agenda :)
[02:02] <Hobbsee> hehe
[02:02] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: Has anything come of you chasing them yet?
[02:02] <crimsun> emailed posted to -motu and -devel-discuss.
[02:02] <crimsun> email, even.
[02:02] <joejaxx> nice
[02:02] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: yeah, smallish things
[02:03] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: A bit risky...
[02:03] <crimsun> nixternal: thanks!
[02:03] <nixternal> no problem
[02:04] <Hobbsee> Everyone, young and old, striped and solid, is invited to attend the
[02:04] <Hobbsee> next MOTU[0]  meeting this Friday, May 25th, 12:00 UTC
[02:04] <persia> agendum?
[02:04] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: Heard anything about the XML-RPC timeline yet?
[02:04] <minghua> sigular form of agenda, I believe
[02:05] <LaserJock> they said when 1.0 was done that would be a top priority
[02:06] <leonel> will there be  Pizza ?
[02:07] <joejaxx> it will come by personal carrier and converter into 1's and 0's for everyone at the meeting
[02:07] <joejaxx> bah
[02:07] <joejaxx> converted*
[02:07] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: So they say... But 1.0 was done a while ago now, and XML-RPC hasn't been touched/targetted that I can see.
[02:08] <LaserJock> well, I also had a bit of a time trying to convince them that XML-RPC needed work
[02:09] <Fujitsu> They were convinced that the web UI was adequate?
[02:10] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: yes
[02:10] <fernando> hi all
[02:11] <LaserJock> they thought it very surprising to that we'd ever use CLI web browsers with LP
[02:11] <LaserJock> mass/large-scale work is not really that great with LP
[02:12] <LaserJock> and the LP devs are so busy with general stuff I'm not sure how fast the situation will change
[02:12] <StevenK> As in, "I thought we fixed it so it doesn't work."
[02:12] <Fujitsu> Gah, I need to leave now,
[02:12] <LaserJock> I think they want to help us out, for sure
[02:12] <Fujitsu> But it's not their priority.
[02:13] <LaserJock> but there is just so much going on in LP that it's hard to get everything
[02:13] <Fujitsu> Which is reasonable, I guess.
[02:13] <LaserJock> there are lots and lots of Rosetta complaints
[02:13] <LaserJock> to some degree we don't get stuff fixed because we just work around problems
[02:14] <LaserJock> but I've been to 2 LP user's meetings
[02:14] <LaserJock> and it was 90% Rosetta
[02:14] <nixternal> ScottK: either it worked, or it blew up your computer :) thanks for the email ;p
[02:14] <Fujitsu> They may feel that Rosetta is important, but I feel that it should be quite obvious that the management of an enormous number of packages (with tens of thousands of bugs) might be a little more of a priority.
[02:15] <persia> Fujitsu: Rosetta generates "supported" output, MOTU doesn't.
[02:17] <minghua> I also think Rosetta gets more attention because it's practically the best tool available for translation
[02:18] <minghua> Soyuz has too many competitors and improving it doesn't gain you much, from a business point of view
[02:19] <StevenK> I can think of dak and nothing else.
[02:20] <persia> StevenK: Don't other distros (SuSE, Fedora, etc.) have something similar?
[02:21] <StevenK> Fedora is whacky, and builds from CVS using CVS tags.
[02:21] <StevenK> SuSE, I'm not sure about at all.
[02:21] <minghua> yeah, I wonder what the RPM distros use
[02:22] <minghua> and actually I was thinking "Soyuz and Malone"
[02:22] <persia> StevenK: That sounds like https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/no-more-source-packages
[02:22] <StevenK> Oh, twitch.
[02:23] <Fujitsu> I like the sound of no-more-source-packages, but it seems to have been postponed indefinitely.
[02:23] <TheMuso> Fujitsu: I like it too.
[02:23] <Fujitsu> persia: WHat is? The postponing?
[02:23] <TheMuso> But why its postponed, I don't know.
[02:23] <persia> Fujitsu: Yes.  The postponing.
[02:24] <Fujitsu> persia: Why?
[02:25] <minghua> Fujitsu: I don't think putting upstream releases in VCS is exactly a good idea
[02:25] <Fujitsu> A lot of packages are already maintained in VCSes.
[02:25] <persia> Fujitsu: I like working with source packages locally to get something working, and make a lot of little patches that get applied, and deapplied.  I'm not sure I want to transition to VCS for that, and a workflow of checkout, apply patches, checkin seems more effort than dput.
[02:25] <Fujitsu> Anyway, I really have to leave now, or I'll miss my train.
[02:25] <minghua> but I wouldn't object getting rid of .diff.gz
[02:26] <jmg_> unless this is in sync with what debian do i dont think it will fly, but it is a good idea
[02:26] <persia> Fujitsu: Also, depending on implementation, it can destroy the cryptographic link to upstream with the md5sum contained in the .dsc.  Perhaps for Ubuntu-native software...
[02:27] <persia> minghua: Do you mean containing diff.gz in VCS, like some of the alioth packages?
[02:27] <StevenK> jmg_: What happens with a sync is they are all imported into the VCS and then all requested to build.
[02:27] <Hobbsee> persia: do you want to do me a favour?
[02:28] <persia> Hobbsee: Which?
[02:28] <Hobbsee> persia: do you want to convert https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdegames/+bug/70264 into a usable patch please (with wherever it should install to, etc)?
[02:28] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 70264 in kdegames "knetwalk does not have a .desktop file" [Low,Confirmed]  
[02:28] <jmg_> what vcs could handle the entire debian archive?
[02:28] <LaserJock> well, suse has that build service, seems kinda like PPA
[02:28] <LaserJock> that might be a competitor to soyuz
[02:28] <joejaxx> LaserJock: yeah buildservice is
[02:29] <persia> Hobbsee: Sure.  Do you want debdiff with changelog, or just debdiff?
[02:29] <Hobbsee> persia: just debdiff is fine, tahnks
[02:29] <joejaxx> LaserJock: it can build more than suse's stuff too
[02:29] <LaserJock> yep
[02:29] <joejaxx> LaserJock: they build debian packages on there
[02:29] <LaserJock> I've seen stuff for Ubuntu on there
[02:29] <persia> Hobbsee: I'll post it to the bug in a few minutes.
[02:29] <joejaxx> yeap
[02:29] <Hobbsee> thanks :)
[02:30] <LaserJock> jmg_: bzr of course ;-)
[02:31] <LaserJock> hmm, I need to write a script to extract out all .desktops in Main and Universe
[02:32] <ScottK> nixternal: Courier uploaded.  Congratulations.
[02:32] <StevenK> LaserJock: I wrote a script that finds them all. I forget where persia put it, though.
[02:32] <minghua> persia: yes that's what I meant
[02:32] <jmg_> LaserJock: heh
[02:32] <LaserJock> I wonder if going through every .deb and dpkg -c | grep .desktop on them if it'd work
[02:33] <jmg_> LaserJock: good baptism by fire for bzr there.
[02:33] <LaserJock> StevenK: for *all* packages or just what's installed?
[02:33] <Hobbsee> okay, at this point, now i want core dev.
[02:33] <LaserJock> really?
[02:33] <persia> LaserJock: For all packages.  It's at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/DesktopFiles
[02:33] <Hobbsee> yes.
[02:33] <minghua> what does PPA stand for by the way?
[02:33] <LaserJock> Personal Package Archive
[02:33] <minghua> thanks LaserJock 
[02:34] <joejaxx> Hobbsee: core dev?
[02:34] <joejaxx> :P
[02:34] <persia> minghua: I'm not as opposed to that, but I'm inherently conservative, and anything that changes my workflow is not preferred ;)
[02:34] <Hobbsee> joejaxx: :P
[02:34] <joejaxx> :)
[02:35] <minghua> shouldn't grep-dctrl be able to get the file list of packages?
[02:35] <jmg_> LaserJock: im willing to bet that that spec would need some investment in hardware to see implemented
[02:35] <minghua> then you don't need a mirror for what LaserJock wants to do
[02:35] <LaserJock> persia: I don't see anything
[02:36] <minghua> persia: I'm not the dicision maker, I was just stating my personal opinion :-)
[02:36] <LaserJock> minghua: well, I have a local mirror
[02:36] <LaserJock> so if there's a fast script to do it locally, I'm all for it
[02:36] <LaserJock> I want to do some .desktop checking
[02:36] <persia> LaserJock: Under Finding candidates for .desktop files (midway down the page) is StevenK's script that identifies all the packages that have Debian menu entries, but don't have .desktop files, which I believe is that to which he was referring.
[02:37] <LaserJock> I'm wanting to extract all the .desktop files from Main and Universe
[02:37] <persia> LaserJock: You might also want to follow https://blueprints.launchpad.net/rosetta/+spec/rosetta-desktopfile-ui as part of the .desktop file master plan.
[02:37] <ScottK> Hobbsee: Would you please approve me as a UUS member?
[02:38] <LaserJock> I'm wanting to check categories as I think we've screwed up a bunch
[02:38] <Hobbsee> ScottK: consider it done
[02:39] <persia> LaserJock: Extraction is a bit harder.  Parse Contents to find them all, and for each package, use dpkg-deb --extract to get your .desktop file.
[02:39] <ScottK> Hobbsee: Thanks.
[02:39] <LaserJock> persia: sounds about right
[02:39] <LaserJock> I hate having to fix messes I've created ;-)
[02:40] <minghua> LaserJock: Since when did we have the Science menu?
[02:40] <persia> LaserJock: Category cleanup would be nice.  There's all the Science packages under Education that were generated when Science didn't show up in the menus (fixed last week, I think), and there's heaps of Category=Application that should be removed.
[02:40] <LaserJock> whoa!
[02:40] <LaserJock> we have a Science menu!!!
[02:40] <ScottK> nixternal: Tag you're it now.
[02:40] <persia> LaserJock: Upstream fixed the bug a couple weeks ago.  I think they appear under Other for now, but at least they appear.
[02:41] <joejaxx> LaserJock: :D
[02:41] <LaserJock> well, from my reading of the fd.o spec
[02:41] <LaserJock> there should be *nothing* in Other
[02:41] <LaserJock> but I don't know what bug you're talking about
[02:41] <persia> LaserJock: Ideally, but most Science apps don't fit any of the registered Main Categories :(
[02:42] <LaserJock> right, but that's a fd.o problem
[02:42] <persia> bug 47426
[02:42] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 47426 in gnome-menus "desktop files with Category=Science; don't show in the menus" [Low,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/47426
[02:44] <LaserJock> hmm, so that bug was that .desktop without Application category didn't show up?
[02:44] <persia> LaserJock: No bug.  "Application" always shows up, but f.d.o says that Application is deprecated (and not supported), and so desktop-file-validate tells people to remove it.
[02:45] <persia> Sorry - misread.  Yes.
[02:45] <LaserJock> well, there are a couple things I'd love to see
[02:46] <LaserJock> 1) Science get it's own Main category status
[02:46] <LaserJock> 2) allow for links in menus
[02:46] <LaserJock> but I don't think I'll be successful in getting either
[02:46] <persia> #1 is an fdo bug.  What do you mean by #2?
[02:46] <LaserJock> well, a URL link can be made with a .desktop
[02:47] <LaserJock> so you could make bookmarks in the menus
[02:47] <LaserJock> however gnome does not recognize that Type of .desktop
[02:48] <persia> The current workaround is to create a .desktop with "Exec=x-www-browser URL"
[02:49] <LaserJock> yep
[02:49] <LaserJock> but I don't like that workaround ;-)
[02:50] <persia> LaserJock: Why not?  How should the menu system decide what handler the user wishes to activate for a URL?
[02:50] <LaserJock> it doesn't
[02:50] <LaserJock> I can do it on a desktop
[02:51] <LaserJock> it seems logical that I should be able to do it in the  menu
[02:51] <Hobbsee> persia: wait, nvm
[02:51] <minghua> persia: by using the preferred URL handler?  (not that I think it makes sense to have URL links in desktop menu)
[02:51] <LaserJock> the motivation for this was Edubuntu
[02:51] <persia> Hobbsee: And after I've been compiling that *huge* package.  You've got it then?
[02:52] <LaserJock> we'd like to make it so that teachers can put URL links to wikipedia,etc. in the menus along with the apps
[02:52] <Hobbsee> persia: yeah, just found debian had updated it :(
[02:52] <Hobbsee> persia: adn you didnt need to compile
[02:52] <minghua> LaserJock: I feel the correct approach is add a "bookmarks" section in gnome-menu
[02:52] <persia> Hobbsee: I always test my patches to make sure I didn't break anything - especially because the syntax of .install files is so special.
[02:53] <persia> LaserJock: Ah.  Do you mean Type=Location .desktop files?
[02:53] <minghua> LaserJock: like what we have now for "recent documents"
[02:53] <LaserJock> perhaps something like that
[02:53] <Hobbsee> persia: okay, mroe to the point, if i only asked for a patch, and not a full debdiff with changes it's because i'm about to integrate it wtih more changes.  and a new upstream
[02:53] <Hobbsee> in some cases
[02:53] <Hobbsee> sorry about that :(
[02:54] <persia> Hobbsee: OK.  Just delete the absolute path from the provided file, and make sure you have the right syntax in knetwalk.install.  That's all you need.
[02:54] <LaserJock> persia: Type=Link
[02:54] <LaserJock> I can make one and drop it on the desktop and it works fine
[02:55] <LaserJock> but gnome-menus explicitly ignores them
[02:55] <Hobbsee> persia: cool, thanks
[02:55] <LaserJock> I think there are enough useful use cases for being able to put links in the menu system that it shouldn'e be forbidden
[02:58] <LaserJock> hence : http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=374577
[02:58] <ubotu> Gnome bug 374577 in general "Gnome menus should support Type=Link" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[02:58] <persia> LaserJock: Right.  "Type=Link".  It looks like f.d.o indicates that only "Type=Application" belongs in the menus, so "Type=Directory" will also not appear.
[02:59] <LaserJock> yep
[03:00] <LaserJock> "A desktop entry is a file with a name ending in the ".desktop" extension which conforms to the desktop entry specification with Type=Application."
[03:01] <LaserJock> but I think it's a tad narrow to assume that only Applications are in the menu
[03:01] <persia> LaserJock: Try submitting a patch.  As long as there's a good use-case, it may well be accepted, and if GNOME moves, f.d.o may follow.
[03:01] <LaserJock> especially considering things like recent documents, Places, etc.
[03:01] <LaserJock> anwyay, I'm off for home
[03:01] <LaserJock> bbiab
[03:09] <nixternal> how come krename hasn't been synced yet?
[03:10] <StevenK> Has it been acked?
[03:11] <Hobbsee> archive admins havent acted yet?
[03:11] <ScottK> nixternal: Thanks for doing courier.
[03:11] <nixternal> no problems
[03:11] <nixternal> Hobbsee: ahh
[03:11] <nixternal> OK
[03:12] <nixternal> imbrandon: I am going to work on kflickr if that is OK with you...first need to make sure it hasn't been done already
[03:12] <ajmitch> nixternal: just use f-spot :)
[03:12] <nixternal> no thank you
[03:12] <nixternal> I don't even use flickr anymore
[03:12] <Hobbsee> nixternal: i think i filed a sync for htat
[03:12] <nixternal> orly
[03:13] <ajmitch> yarly
[03:15] <StevenK> I don't know what about it makes me dislike it.
[03:17] <nixternal> it was cool last year
[03:18] <StevenK> Web 2.0 is so 2006.
[03:19] <StevenK> Right. I can't believe I just said that.
[03:19] <nixternal> haha
[03:20] <StevenK> Hmph.
[03:36] <nixternal> hey, you asked for it, and ajmitch decided to help...I figured since we are a great big community, I would help out as well ;)
[03:37] <nixternal> plus I kind of felt left out...you know like crimsun sitting there with his Vista box trying to file bugs against it
[03:37] <persia> Warning: sbuild 0.54 doesn't work yet.  Wait for 0.55 or fix schroot interaction.
[03:37] <StevenK> What's wrong with sbuild 0.54?
[03:38] <persia> StevenK: chroot_mode is obsolete at /usr/share/perl5/Sbuild/Conf.pm line 163. (stock distributed sbuild.conf)
[03:40] <StevenK> Yummy.
[03:40] <persia> StevenK: There's a big transition to make all sbuilds be done on schroots, which I think is good, but it needs just a bit more :)
[03:40] <StevenK> Ah.
[03:41] <StevenK> I was going to look at sbuild soonish.
[03:41] <persia> StevenK: 0.53 is still on some mirrors, if you want to grab it fast, but I recommend waiting for 0.55, as enough is changing that you'll find it easier to use the newer version.
[03:42] <StevenK> When's 0.55 due?
[03:45] <persia> StevenK: I don't know yet - I just discovered the problem, and worked around it.  Digging deeper has been set with high priority on my queue.
[03:55] <PriceChild> persia, wooo thanks for the patch! :D
[03:55] <PriceChild> Just checking it builds now
[03:56] <persia> PriceChild: Great.  Let me know when there's a new version on REVU, and I'll post comments (and likely advocate at this point).
[03:56] <PriceChild> as soon as (/if) it builds I'll put it to revu with the latest other silly changes like sections
[03:57] <PriceChild> argh just failed...
[03:57] <PriceChild> really early on... I must have broken something myself
[03:58] <nixternal> MOTUs: Bug 116106 if you get the chance
[03:58] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 116106 in yakuake "[Sync Request]  Please sync Yakuake (2.8~beta1-1) from Debian Unstable (main)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/116106
[04:04] <PriceChild> persia, I'll pastebin the ouput of pbuilder.
[04:04] <persia> PriceChild: Great.  I'll take a look.
[04:04] <PriceChild> hehe
[04:05] <ScottK> nixternal: Is it safe to sync over the existing Ubuntu changes in yakuake?
[04:07] <PriceChild> persia, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/21922/
[04:09] <persia> PriceChild: OK.  The problem seems to be that the definition of "unsigned int" is different for AMD64 and i386, annoyingly enough.  I'm stumped.
[04:10] <PriceChild> Hehe :)
[04:10] <persia> Does anyone familiar with 64-bit porting in C++ have time to help PriceChild and I debug a patch?
[04:11] <RAOF> persia: I'm not very familiar, but I've done some trivial stuff in the past.
[04:11] <RAOF> And I'm *always* willing to get 64bit builds working :)
[04:12] <nixternal> ScottK: good question...looking into it now
[04:12] <LaserJock> persia: perhaps we could add an item to the MOTU meeting agenda about +mentoring
[04:13] <ajmitch> LaserJock: just add it
[04:13] <persia> RAOF: Thanks.  We're looking at http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/gizmod-0705201505/gizmod-3.1/libH/Debug.hpp, and want to pass an unsigned int to <<.  Any ideas on syntax?
[04:13] <persia> LaserJock: Sounds good.  Please add it.
[04:15] <ScottK> nixternal: OK.  If in fact it is safe to sync over an existing Ubuntu change, then you need to say that and explain why in the bug.
[04:15] <persia> RAOF: My last attempt was http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/21924/, but that results in http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/21922/.
[04:16] <nixternal> ScottK: going to scratch that sync...I can only drop 1 kubuntu patch from the looks of it right now
[04:16] <nixternal> if you have it open, just reject it..I will fix this up and request merge
[04:16] <persia> nixternal: Don't scratch it, just retitle to merge, and assign yourself :)
[04:16] <nixternal> persia: true, thanks
[04:17] <ScottK> nixternal: Rejected.
[04:17] <nixternal> ahh, that's why I couldn't find it :)
[04:17] <persia> ScottK: No need to reject.  Just unsubscribe UUS, and let nixternal fix it :)
[04:18] <ScottK> persia: My theory was as written, sync, it needs rejecting.  If he wants to edit it into a merge, then he can set it to not rejected.  I did unsub uus.
[04:19] <ScottK> persia: Thanks for the reminder on unsubbing.
[04:19] <persia> ScottK: That makes sense.  I'll add it to my private list of workflow for discussion at the meeting.
[04:19] <ScottK> OK
[04:21] <ajmitch> ScottK, persia: you're both recent MOTUs, do you have reviewer rights on REVU?
[04:21] <LaserJock> ajmitch: I took care of them
[04:21] <ScottK> ajmitch: I do.  LaserJock hooked me up today.
[04:21] <persia> ajmitch: LaserJock granted me rights recently.
[04:21] <ajmitch> LaserJock: ok, thanks :)
[04:23] <LaserJock> hah
[04:23] <persia> ajmitch: Never, you're just exploring new horizons :)
[04:24] <RAOF> persia: Hm, that *looks* right.  I thought that size_t and unsigned int should be recognised as different types.  I'll try it.
[04:24] <ajmitch> persia: nah, I'm washed up, no use :)
[04:25] <persia> RAOF: Remember that on i386 size_t is 32 bits, and therefore hard to distinguis from 32-bit unsigned int.
[04:26] <PriceChild> persia, I'm off for the evening, thanks for all your work again.
[04:26] <persia> PriceChild: Have a good night.  I'll send you something if we can find a solution.
[04:29] <RAOF> Ooh, indeed.
[04:29] <RAOF> Sorry, I was misundertanding the problem.  It *works* on x86-64, but not on i386 :)
[04:30] <persia> RAOF: We might also be able to cast in the call to <<, but I'm not sure how to represent it properly.
[04:30] <ScottK> keescook and anyone else interested, updated clamav proposal for Friday's MOTU meeting here: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2007-May/001649.html
[04:30] <persia> RAOF: unpatched, it works on i386.  patched it works on x86-64.  It doesn't seem so complex to require architecture-dependent #ifdefs
[04:31] <persia> s/to require/as to require/
[04:31] <RAOF> So something in the code is trying to debug<<unsigned int, yes?
[04:32] <persia> RAOF: well, for an instantiated Debug (cdbg2 if I remember correctly), but yes.
[04:33] <RAOF> persia: Why not change <<size_t to <<unsigned long?
[04:34] <RAOF> (And keep the new <<unsigned int).
[04:34] <RAOF> That's kinda ugly, but works.
[04:35] <RAOF> s/castable/implicitly castable/
[04:35] <persia> RAOF: Do you have i386 hardware to test?
[04:35] <RAOF> persia: My minimal testcase builds fine with -m32 on x86-64
[04:36] <RAOF> Which *should* duplicate i386 building.
[04:36] <RAOF> Heh, and I've got an i386 chroot, allow me to build it in there :)
[04:36] <persia> RAOF: Hrm.  It should, but I'm not certain what the knock-on effects for the rest of the code might be.
[04:37] <persia> RAOF: You'll probably have PIC errors (or at least that happened earlier when trying to use an AMD64 chroot for the opposite).
[04:37] <nixternal> grr, no go on yakuake sync...we had Kubuntu changes..I have updated the changes, dropped one patch, and am building it now..will request merge after testing
[04:38] <RAOF> persia: I'm not sure what you're talking about.  *My* testcase is whether or not you can overload a "func(unsigned long)" with "func(unsigned int)", and then a func(size_t) works.
[04:39] <persia> RAOF: Alternately, what do you thing about cdbg2 << string1 << ( tmpString << x ) << endl;
[04:39] <RAOF> s/thing/think/ ?
[04:40] <persia> RAOF: For your testcase, I think everything will work, but I'm not sure about effects to the rest of the application.
[04:40] <RAOF> Looks fairly ugly :)
[04:41] <persia> RAOF: Sorry.  s/thing/think/ and move to the place in the code that is currently similar to cdbg2 << string1 << x << endl;
[04:41] <RAOF> persia: I don't think there will be any other effects (at least on i386 & x86-64).  On those platforms, size_t *is* either unsigned int or unsigned long, which is the problem
[04:42] <persia> RAOF: Actually, that will probably work.  If there are overloads for both unsigned int and unsigned long, and the handlers are basically the same, any size_t passed will just pick the appropriate handler.  Thanks.
[04:42] <RAOF> Yeah, that's what I meant :).
[04:42] <RAOF> Glad to help!
[04:43] <RAOF> Nah
[04:43] <RAOF> Working C++ :)
[04:45] <LaserJock> persia: I know the feeling
[04:45] <LaserJock> I'm trying to learn C++ too but I'm really struggling
[04:46] <leonel> motus  good night !
[04:46] <persia> LaserJock: I learned most of what I know from ajmitch, and it's been good enough to get me through 90% of the patches I've written (about 300k in aggregate size by now).
[04:49] <RAOF> This was *some time* ago, however :)
[04:49] <nixternal> ok MOTUs => Malone Bug 116108
[04:49] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 116108 in yakuake "[Gutsy Merge]  Please merge Yakuake (2.8~beta1-1ubuntu1) from Debian Unstable (main)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/116108
[04:51] <persia> nixternal: The Debian changelog is missing.  Remember to use debuild -S -vfoo when pasting.
[04:51] <nixternal> it is missing?
[04:51] <persia> nixternal: From .changes (and, more importantly, from the bug description)
[04:52] <nixternal> gah
[04:52] <persia> nixternal: One has to explain why a merge is good.  Usually the debian changelog does a good job of that.
[04:52] <nixternal> and did you notice "feisty" and not "gutsy"
[04:52] <nixternal> jeesh this makes me mad...I wish it would just default already :)
[04:53] <persia> nixternal: Use gutsy devscripts :)
[04:54] <ajmitch> it was inevitable
[04:57] <crimsun> ImportError: No module named pygtk
[04:58] <nixternal> OK, fixed
[04:59] <nixternal> yes, i am grabbing the gutsy devscripts now
[04:59] <nixternal> this is annoying persia...I posted again with Feisty ;/
[04:59] <persia> nixternal: No worries.  I'll ignore the mail :)
[05:01] <persia> RAOF: Does http://pastebin.ca/501552 look right to you?
[05:03] <RAOF> persia: Yeah, looks fine.  Just as a stylistic thing I'd put the "ulong" declaration after the "long" declaration, but that's just me.
[05:04] <persia> RAOF: I almost did that, but my preference for small patches overrode my preference for nice looking code :)
[05:05] <RAOF> persia: Of course, another option would be to *remove* everything but the long/unsigned long ones.  The code doesn't actually need the int ones (since int is implicitly cast up to long when necessary)
[05:07] <persia> RAOF: I'll mention that to upstream, but I'm not sure I want to change it that much.  Thanks a lot for your help.
[05:10] <persia> nixternal: Thanks for fixing it.  I'll process this now.
[05:11] <nixternal> hrmm, devscripts relies on a newer libc6, and I know how evil that can be
[05:11] <nixternal> thanks persia 
[05:11] <persia> nixternal: Backport it - it may build from source in feisty.
[05:12] <nixternal> hehe, almost done doing that :)
[05:13] <dabaR> I am going to learn how to merge. Should I use a package that really needs to be merged?
[05:13] <crimsun> ah.
[05:13] <crimsun> ajmitch: thanks for 116109.
[05:13] <persia> dabaR: That's best, as your work will get a better review.
[05:14] <ajmitch> crimsun: just uploaded fix, a simple case of 2 misplaced # marks
[05:14] <ajmitch> crimsun: did it bite you?
[05:14] <crimsun> yup
[05:14] <dabaR> persia: thanks. Where can I find a package that needs to be merged?
[05:15] <ajmitch> crimsun: sorry about that, I should have checked more closely before uploading last night
[05:15] <crimsun> ajmitch: np :)
[05:15] <persia> dabaR: http://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html has a list.  Be sure to check with the person listed as the last uploader before proceeding.
[05:16] <crimsun> and here come the dupes.
[05:17] <nixternal> how come 'gutsy' is highlighted in red when I use dch?
[05:17] <crimsun> LongPointyStick: hi
[05:18] <nixternal> hrmm
[05:18] <I_LUV_VISTA> yeehaw!
[05:18] <LongPointyStick> haha
[05:18] <I_LUV_VISTA> oh jeesh, here come the flames and the trolls
[05:19] <nixternal> man, don't do that when you are like in 40+ chans
[05:19] <LongPointyStick> haha
[05:19] <dabaR> heh
[05:19] <ajmitch> crimsun: interesting, I wonder when it built
[05:23] <ajmitch> of course I'm also watching out for new samba bugreports in gutsy
[05:23] <LongPointyStick> sure sure
[05:24] <ajmitch> LongPointyStick: ?
[05:24] <minghua> nixternal: I believe the highlighting is done by your editor
[05:24] <LongPointyStick> you're just trying to avoid work again
[05:25] <ajmitch> LongPointyStick: please explain
[05:25] <crimsun> minghua: nah, nixternal is using Vista.  It highlights "gutsy" automagically.
[05:25] <LongPointyStick> ajmitch: you were just trying to take over the forums or something, with your evil plans
[05:25] <ajmitch> LongPointyStick: I didn't even post on the forums
[05:25] <ajmitch> and haven't for weeks
[05:25] <LongPointyStick> with the idea of "looking for bug reports" as a cover
[05:26] <chillywilly> http://thecutest.info
[05:26] <chillywilly> :)
[05:26] <minghua> crimsun: :-)
[05:26] <minghua> you have to give nixternal points for using dch in vista
[05:29] <ajmitch> chillywilly: how very disturbing
[05:32] <teer> hi - just chatting with the good folk in #uqm, the people who maintain that Ur-Quan Masters game that is a package in Ubuntu.  They say it is packaged incorrectly.  Who should they contact regarding this issue?
[05:33] <nixternal> minghua: haha
[05:33] <persia> teer: Any MOTU is a good contact, but I'll come by #uqm to discuss.
[05:34] <persia> teer: Nobody seems to be there.
[05:35] <teer> Thank you, oops, they are using #sc2
[05:35] <persia> teer: Thanks.
[06:18] <StevenK> persia: If you upload merges, you need to include the Debian changes in the .changes files as well.
[06:19] <persia> StevenK: That's `debuild -S -sa -v<last Ubuntu> -k<mykey>`, right?
[06:20] <StevenK> persia: I will usually run dpkg-genchanges by hand after seeing a build suceed.
[06:20] <persia> (assuming new upstream - drop -sa for debian revision change only
[06:20] <persia> )
[06:20] <StevenK> persia: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+queue?queue_state=2&queue_text=
[06:21] <StevenK> persia: You'll see a clanlib upload, which is correct.
[06:21] <persia> StevenK: Is yakuake not?
[06:22] <StevenK> Right, yakuake looks right, xmms-scrobbler does not.
[06:22] <StevenK> Never mind, I'm utterly confused.
[06:23] <StevenK> persia: Sorry, I'll leave you be. :-)
[06:23] <persia> StevenK: I may well have made a mistake, but I didn't binary-upload from sparc.  Please prod me if you see anything else that might be wrong.
[06:24] <StevenK> persia: Binary uploads are only allowed from the buildds. I think the problem is that I can't read, sorry.
[06:24] <persia> StevenK: No worries :)  I understand there are excellent literacy programs in Sydney.
[06:25] <StevenK> persia: Hmph.
[06:25] <LaserJock> is anybody here running XFCE?
[06:26] <persia> LaserJock: I have a sid VM with XFCE, if that helps.
[06:27] <LaserJock> hmm, I'm trying to figure out some .desktop stuff
[06:27] <persia> LaserJock: What?
[06:27] <LaserJock> tuxpaint has a .desktop
[06:28] <LaserJock> with no categories
[06:28] <LaserJock> and it installs to the old gnome and kde directories
[06:29] <persia> And you want to know if it works in XFCE?
[06:29] <LaserJock> I want to know what the current .desktop does
[06:30] <StevenK> TheMuso: espeak given back on amd64 and powerpc, and have now both built. I've also closed the bug.
[06:30] <LaserJock> hmm, well actually I know what it does
[06:30] <LaserJock> it doesn't show up
[06:30] <persia> LaserJock: I've just been moving those to /usr/share/applications, which works for everyone.
[06:31] <LaserJock> yeah
[06:31] <LaserJock> now I'm trying to figure out what to do with the Categories
[06:31] <crimsun> it honours the fd.o spec. Just stick it where appropriate, and it'll appear correctly in GNOME and in Xfce.
[06:32] <LaserJock> I'm thinking Graphics should work
[06:32] <LaserJock> I believe it used to show up in both Graphics and Education
[06:33] <persia> LaserJock: I'd suggest Categories=Graphics; 2DGraphics; Art;
[06:34] <persia> Alternately Categories=Graphics; 2DGraphics; RasterGraphics; or Categories=Education;Art; if you don't want dual associations.
[06:35] <LaserJock> I don't think I do
[06:35] <LaserJock> it confuses people
[06:36] <persia> LaserJock: Education; Art; is probably cleanest then, given the nature of the package.
[06:36] <LaserJock> probably
[06:47] <superm1> persia, your MOTU now?
[06:47] <persia> superm1: Yes.
[06:47] <ajmitch> finally
[06:47] <superm1> persia, congrats :)
[06:47] <persia> superm1: Thank you.
[06:48] <superm1> so that means you have the honor of doing revus eh.....?
[06:48] <persia> ajmitch: I need incentive.  Blame PPA :)
[06:48] <ajmitch> heh
[06:48] <ajmitch> should I do more merges in main, or in universe?
[06:48] <LaserJock> both!
[06:48] <persia> superm1: Yes, but my mentoring plate is currently full.  When one of the current packages or patches gets released, I'll take a new one.
[06:49] <RAOF> Man, I *really* need to get around to building a sid VM. 
[06:49] <ajmitch> LaserJock: I think I might pick off some of doko's python merges in main, with his permission
[06:50] <superm1> well i have a package with two +1's already ( LaserJock and keescook  ), but keescook wanted a third opinion before uploading, any other takers?
[06:50] <ajmitch> the mythtv themes?
[06:50] <superm1> na
[06:50] <superm1> mythbuntu-artwork-usplash
[06:50] <ajmitch> ah
[06:50] <persia> superm1: I don't want to download that .orig.tar.gz :)
[06:51] <superm1> persia, haha, different package thank goodness
[06:51] <superm1> thx if you get a chance ajmitch 
[06:52] <ajmitch> or persia could take a look at it
[06:53] <crimsun> superm1: you're missing COPYING in the root of the extracted mythbuntu-artwork-usplash
[06:53] <crimsun> that's an instant reject by the archive admin.
[06:54] <LaserJock> really? I thought I saw it when I was reviewing
[06:54] <crimsun> ls: *COPY*: No such file or directory
[06:54] <LaserJock> bah
[06:55] <superm1> crimsun, not all packages have a file entitled COPYING in the root though?
[06:56] <superm1> what packages should or shouldnt have this file?
[06:57] <crimsun> superm1: both usplash-theme-mythbuntu.c and debian/copyright reference a copy of the GPL. It doesn't exist, in its entirety, in the source package.
[06:57] <superm1> it can't just be referenced to a location on a system?
[06:58] <crimsun> sure it can, but that's not sufficient.
[06:58] <minghua> for native package, maybe
[06:58] <crimsun>  * You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
[06:58] <crimsun>  * along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software
[06:58] <crimsun>  * Foundation, Inc., 51 Franklin St, Fifth Floor, Boston, MA  02110-1301 USA
[06:58] <minghua> for non-native ones, I don't think that's good enough
[06:58] <superm1> kubuntu-default-settings doesn't provide one at all
[06:58] <crimsun> there is no "copy of the GNU General Public License" included in the source package.
[06:59] <crimsun> superm1: that doesn't make it correct. I asked cjwatson about it earlier this year. It's a bug.
[06:59] <minghua> yeah, no second thought, what crimsun pointed out apply for native package as well
[06:59] <superm1> Ok.
[07:01] <crimsun> aside from that, it looks reasonable.
[07:01] <superm1> okay, i'll get a COPYING file added and reupload
[07:02] <ajmitch> how annoying, requestsync broke
[07:03] <RAOF> Ok, how can I get inotify support in my gusty dchroot?  I presume I need to bind-mount proc as well?  Will anything bad happen? :)
[07:09] <jussi01> good morning motu's!
[07:10] <ajmitch> hello jussi01 
[07:10] <RAOF> afternoon jussi01 
[07:10] <jussi01> morning ajmitch, RAOF anything exciting happening?
[07:11] <ajmitch> jussi01: I'm breaking main!
[07:12] <jussi01> ajmitch: lol, nice, im sure everyone loves you
[07:12] <ajmitch> yeah
[07:20] <superm1> crimsun, i've updated it on revu.  since you didnt see anything else other than the missing COPYING file, would you be able to look it over once more (and hopefully +1 it :))?
[07:45] <dabaR> Please help me in #ubuntu-bugs
[08:00] <dabaR> I am considering this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bootcd/+bug/103647 I can see that the bug is in no way related to bootcd, and is fairly old. I am considering putting status to needs info, with a comment asking whether it still happens, and changing the affected package to the kernel. Is that what I should do?
[08:00] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 103647 in bootcd "Feisty Beta Live CD freezes on boot process" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
[08:06] <RAOF> However, bug #116121 is now ready for merging.
[08:07] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 116121 in pyinotify "[merge] Please merge pyinotify 0.7.0-1 from Debian Unstable" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/116121
[08:10] <doko> ajmitch: please go ahead =)
[08:12] <ajmitch> I'll start with python-ldap & python-pam
[08:13] <StevenK> doko: Do you mind if I borrow libapache2-mod-python?
[08:14] <doko> StevenK: go ahead
[08:27] <dabaR> crimsun: can you help me with bug #36464, please?
[08:27] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 36464 in bootcd "spdif audio stopped working" [Medium,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/36464
[08:29] <dabaR> It is not related to the package it is assigned to, afaict. I suppose you may know where it belongs.
[08:39] <TheMuso> StevenK: Thanks.
[08:39] <StevenK> TheMuso: No problem.
[08:40] <TheMuso> Now if only I could resolve why Ardour won't build...
[08:40] <Fujitsu> RAOF: When did you start using it?
[08:42] <RAOF> Fujitsu: Last week or so.
[08:42] <RAOF> Also...
[08:43] <RAOF> Wooooo!  We got the flat!  Woooooooo!
[08:43] <Fujitsu> RAOF: Great :)
[08:43] <Fujitsu> I moved from XChat a couple of months ago, and haven't looked back.
[08:43] <persia> RAOF: Congratulations.
[08:43] <nixternal> mmm irssi
[08:43] <StevenK> RAOF: Woot!
[08:44] <StevenK> I stopped using XChat, oooh, three years ago.
[08:44] <LaserJock> I still use gaim for IRC every once in a while
[08:44] <TheMuso> Irssi is all I have ever used, when under Linux.
[08:45] <RAOF> lastlog is awesome, as is the higlight window
[08:46] <StevenK> highlight window?
[08:47] <StevenK> persia: Does your sbuild setup work currently?
[08:47] <persia> StevenK: Yes, but it's not current.  Why?
[08:47] <RAOF> Oh, there's a script which allows you to add a window with all the lines that get highlighted.
[08:47] <TheMuso> RAOF: ooooooo
[08:47] <RAOF> TheMuso: Yes.  Useful, eh? :)
[08:47] <TheMuso> RAOF: Where does one find this?
[08:47] <StevenK> persia: I'm curious if you've tried to build ardour using it.
[08:48] <RAOF> It's from one of the irssi tutorials linked from the irssi home page
[08:48] <persia> StevenK: Works fine.  scons is evil and bad :)
[08:49] <RAOF> TheMuso: f0rked.com/articles/irssi
[08:49] <TheMuso> RAOF: Thanks.
[08:49] <persia> Unless there is a new ardour since I last compiled.  TheMuso, which ardour is broken?
[08:49] <RAOF> s/past/paste/
[08:49] <TheMuso> persia: Even the latest ardour sync from Debian doesn't build.
[08:49] <nixternal> ctrl+k
[08:49] <nixternal> ;)
[08:50] <StevenK> RAOF: Yes. I really don't mind that feature.
[08:50] <persia> TheMuso: Have you tried on local sbuild, oir is it just buildd scons craziness?
[08:50] <TheMuso> persia: Going to try on local sbuild as soon as its updated.
[08:50] <RAOF> I need to learn why mouse-3 pasting isn't working reliably into my ssh/screen session.  Until then, it's nice that irssi will ask me before I flood the channel :)
[08:51] <StevenK> Heh
[08:51] <persia> TheMuso: I recommend staying away from sbuild 0.54.  Let me know if you want me to test build.
[08:51] <StevenK> doko: Can I also borrow nbd? Should I stop asking? :-)
[08:51] <TheMuso> persia: Using the one in feisty.
[08:51] <persia> TheMuso: Wise that :)
[08:52] <TheMuso> persia: Commencing sbuild of ardour now.
[08:52] <Fujitsu> Is there any reason to maintain a s/xlibmesa-gl-dev/x11proto-gl-dev/ delta from Debian if the Debian package builds fine? I don't see any point.o
[08:53] <StevenK> Fujitsu: I thought there was a difference between the two?
[08:54] <doko> StevenK: yes, stop asking =)
[08:54] <Fujitsu> So did I, but I've got a package here that has them substituted, but builds fine without.
[08:54] <persia> Fujitsu: Does it run fine?  We've lots of xlibmesa-gl-dev packages.
[08:54] <StevenK> doko: Just borrow them? Is there any you'd like me to stay away from?
[08:54] <persia> s/packages/build-dependent packages/
[08:55] <doko> StevenK: no, go ahead
[08:55] <StevenK> doko: Okay, thanks.
[08:56] <StevenK> "* Port fix for "config file isn't generated on first install" from nbd-server to nbd-client. Squish this bug on my forehead with a giant cluebat. Note to self: nbd has *two* binary packages, not one. Two. That means bugs reported against one package will most likely occur in the other, too, so need fixing there as well. Sigh."
[08:58] <Fujitsu> I'm sure the NM guide says specifically not to do that sort of stuff in a changelog :P
[08:58] <StevenK> Oh?
[08:58] <StevenK> Don't read the linda changelog, then.
[08:58] <Fujitsu> Hah.
[09:00] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: Has anybody asked fd.o about making Science a main category?
[09:03] <StevenK> Fujitsu: It might take a while to read the Linda changelog.
[09:04] <Fujitsu> StevenK: So I see.
[09:04] <StevenK> It being roughly 2,400 lines.
[09:04] <Fujitsu>   * Initial packaging.
[09:04] <Fujitsu>   * Well, not really, just fixing the changelog.
[09:04] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: I'm not quite sure
[09:04] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: I've seen lots of discussion about Math and Science
[09:05] <Fujitsu> Having both would be nice, but Science is necessary.
[09:05] <StevenK> Fujitsu: The "real" initial packaging of Linda had a different source name.
[09:05] <Fujitsu> Ah.
[09:05] <LaserJock> well, I just feel like it might be a bit much to ask for Science
[09:05] <Fujitsu> Where else are they meant to go?
[09:06] <LaserJock> well, the thing is it seems like a slippery slope
[09:06] <Fujitsu> How?
[09:06] <LaserJock> once you add one, then it opens it up for other people's pet categories
[09:06] <Fujitsu> I guess.
[09:07] <LaserJock> for me it's obvious that there are a lot of science apps that don't fit in Education
[09:07] <LaserJock> but I'm not sure if it's a general opinion
[09:07] <LaserJock> it might be worth emailing the xdg list
[09:08] <LaserJock> so if I email fd.o I'll get lost of "+1" ?
[09:08] <LaserJock> :-)
[09:08] <LaserJock> s/lost/lots/
[09:08] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: I'm sure you can collect a large band of replies from us, and probably debian-science.
[09:09] <persia> LaserJock: Tell me where to point my mail client, and I'll ignore the old advice I received about not sendmail mail that only said "Mee Too!".
[09:09] <persia> s/sendmail/sending/
[09:10] <TheMuso> Ok this really really sucks. Ardour builds fine in a local updated sbuild.
[09:10] <Fujitsu> TheMuso: Hahahaha.
[09:10] <Fujitsu> Complain to infinity.
[09:11] <TheMuso> brb
[09:19] <LaserJock> ok guys, when I have an email to fd.o I'll let you know so you can put in your +1s ;-)
[09:19] <LaserJock> I gotta get to be right now though
[09:19] <LaserJock> cya tomorrow
[09:19] <Fujitsu> Bye, LaserJock.
[09:20] <StevenK> doko: We don't need to build python debug packages manually now, right?
[09:21] <doko> StevenK: ohh, how do you autobuild them?
[09:22] <StevenK> doko: Well, as in, are they required? I remember you saying something about it a few weeks ago.
[09:22] <nixternal> head>bed == g'nite
[09:22] <doko> StevenK: didn't say anything about that, please keep them
[09:23] <StevenK> doko: So noted.
[09:27] <StevenK> Hrm. pycairo is a fun merge. Not too difficult, but still challenging.
[09:34] <jack_deltrino> How do I do what dpkg-scanpackages . /dev/null | gzip -9 > Packages.gz does with apt-ftparchive?
[09:43] <shawarma> jack_deltrino: Huh?
[09:43] <shawarma> jack_deltrino: What exactly do you want to do?
[09:43] <dholbach> good morning
[09:43] <jack_deltrino> Adding my own packages to my apt repository.
[09:44] <jack_deltrino> shawarma: I remember someone mentioning it a long time ago, but I didn't have logs on unfortunately.
[09:44] <shawarma> jack_deltrino: And which part of that is not done by the command you wrote?
[09:44] <shawarma> jack_deltrino: Ah...
[09:45] <shawarma> jack_deltrino: Now I get it.
[09:45] <jack_deltrino> shawarma: It's not installed on the system and I know someone said apt-ftparchive does this (which is installed)
[09:45] <shawarma> jack_deltrino: You want to use apt-ftparchive instead of dpkg-scanpackages. For some reason I read it the other way around.
[09:46] <jack_deltrino> Eh, my brain works the s/PATTERN/REPLACEMENT/ way :P
[09:47] <jack_deltrino> So... any ideas?
[09:52] <imbrandon> jack_deltrino, take a look at this script
[09:53] <imbrandon> http://www.kubuntu.org/packages/amarok-latest/ARCHIVE
[09:53] <imbrandon> it should do what you want with some modification
[09:54] <jack_deltrino> Uhm... right, what's the modification? I know how to use apt-ftparchive, but how to add custom packages as dpkg-scanpackages allows you to do is another story.
[09:59] <imbrandon> modification just as in pointing it to the correct pool on your server
[09:59] <imbrandon> you can add what ever packages you want
[10:01] <mumbly> Could a MOTU please delete one of my upload on REVU ?
[10:05] <jack_deltrino> My problem is I get mywebserver/mycustomreposection/feisty/binary-i386 not found.
[10:05] <jack_deltrino> I'm using lighttpd for the web server.
[10:07] <bytee> Hi, is there a reason why Seamonkey isn't being shipped with Feisty Fawn?
[10:10] <crimsun> you should ask in #ubuntu-mozillateam.
[10:10] <crimsun> essentially, it's under consideration for gutsy AFAIR.
[10:12] <crimsun> mumbly: ...being?
[10:12] <mumbly> crimsun, acer_acpi ... but it seems it has been rejected ...
[10:13] <mumbly> ftp://revu.tauware.de/incoming/rejected/
[10:14] <crimsun> I don't have priv to do that.
[10:14] <jack_deltrino> Hmm, well mycustomrepository is not in the lighttpd configuration file, but I know at one point it used to work with this current configuration file.
[10:15] <mumbly> crimsun, ok ... should i ask someone else ? siretart ? Raphink ?
[10:15] <raphink> hi mumbly
[10:15] <raphink> nice to see you here
[10:16] <mumbly> raphink, hi ! It's been a long time ! :)
[10:16] <raphink> indeed
[10:16] <raphink> what is your rejected package?
[10:17] <mumbly> raphink, i'm packaging some stuff but I a kind of "newbie" and i think i've made a mistake on uploading a package on REVU
[10:17] <mumbly> raphink, acer_acpi
[10:18] <crimsun> dabaR: triaged.
[10:20] <crimsun> superm1: arg, you attached an old version of COPYING. :-)
[10:21] <crimsun> superm1: the current version uses "51 Franklin Street, Fifth Floor, Boston, MA  02110-1301, USA", not the older "59 Temple Place, Suite 330, Boston, MA  02111-1307  USA"
[10:24] <jack_deltrino> Grr, I hate this thing.
[10:24] <jack_deltrino> Maybe someone who helped me out on this channel before will remember tomorrow.
[10:24] <jack_deltrino> Goodnight all.
[10:42] <pochu> persia: I have the wx source here: http://emilio.pozuelo.org/~deb/. Let me know if you want a diff or something else :)
[10:42] <persia> pochu: Taking a look now.
[10:44] <siretart> mumbly: sorry?
[10:45] <crimsun> siretart: I believe raphink took care of removing the rejected upload.
[10:45] <siretart> ok. great
[10:45] <mumbly> siretart, no problem ... i am with raphink
[10:45] <raphink> hi siretart & crimsun
[10:45] <siretart> ok, I just reprocessed the queue manually
[10:45] <siretart> hi raphink & crimsun 
[10:45] <crimsun> hullo raphink 
[10:45] <siretart> is Nicolas Derive around?
[10:46] <raphink> acer-acpi is in
[10:46] <siretart> I'd like to talk to him about his sauerbraten upload. 
[10:46] <raphink> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5238 mumbly
[10:46] <crimsun> hmm. kalon33 doesn't appear to be online.
[10:47] <siretart> crimsun: you know him?
[10:47] <crimsun> siretart: nope, just googled for his LP id
[10:47] <siretart> ok
[10:50] <Hobbsee> hi all
[10:50] <Fujitsu> Hi Hobbsee.
[10:50] <Hobbsee> :)
[10:50] <Hobbsee> haha
[10:50] <imbrandon> ello crimsun Fujitsu Hobbsee siretart 
[10:51] <Hobbsee> hi imbrandon 
[10:51] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: please tlel me if you're going to reboot aurora - or at least check if a build is running.  although it hasnt happened yet :)
[10:51] <Fujitsu> We now have external network access, rather than having to tunnel through the SSL proxy.
[10:51] <Hobbsee> neat
[10:51] <imbrandon> Hobbsee, sure, i dont plan on rebooting it anytime soon
[10:51] <Hobbsee> cool, tahnsk :)
[10:51] <imbrandon> soon == days / weeks
[11:00] <persia> pochu: Building now.  A few quick comments are available from http://www.pastebin.ca/501957.  Let me know what you think.
[11:01] <pochu> looking
[11:01] <pochu> persia: Sounds good :)
[11:02] <persia> pochu: You want to make the changes, or shall I?
[11:02] <siretart> crimsun: I've sent kalon33 an email
[11:02] <pochu> persia: I'd like to try it ;) So I can learn something :)
[11:03] <crimsun> siretart: ok.
[11:03] <pochu> persia: I'll let you know if I need some help, or if I can't do it :)
[11:04] <persia> pochu: OK.  If you want to do a general cleanup of all the lintian and linda warnings, that'd probably be good as well :)
[11:05] <pochu> persia: ok, will check it :)
[11:11] <pochu> persia: for the autotools... in debian/rules, there's no configure option, but a lot of configure-wx-... There's a COMMON_CONFIGURE_OPTIONS, though. I don't know where I should put the config.guess and config.sub stuff. Any hint? :)
[11:12] <persia> pochu: Looking now
[11:12] <pochu> Thanks.
[11:13] <persia> pochu: No, thank you for handling this.  wxWidgets is big, ugly, and full of bugs :)
[11:14] <pochu> But without some help I couldn't do anything :)
[11:24] <persia> pochu: For clean, just add to the clean rule.  For configure, I'd add a preconfigure-stamp: rule containing the autotools copy and `touch preconfigure-stamp`, and make all the configure-package-whatever-stamp rules depend on the preconfigure-stamp rule.
[11:26] <persia> pochu: Oh, and if you take my suggestion, you need to rm preconfigure-stamp in clean.
[11:26] <pochu> persia: ok, gonna try :)
[11:30] <pochu> persia: Is it OK to add it just under "# The Rules:", or is there a better place for it?
[11:30] <pochu> It looks good to me, but I don't know makefiles yet :)
[11:31] <persia> pochu: I'd probably put it right under the build: rule, just to it's visually close to the rules that depend upon it.
[11:31] <persia> s/to/so/
[11:35] <backblue> when i do, apt-cache source package, where does it put, the packages?
[11:35] <persia> backblue: In the current directory.
[11:36] <persia> backblue: Ah, and you probably want apt-get source package
[11:36] <backblue> persia: sorry, my mistake, i want to say apt-get source package.
[11:36] <backblue> it puts, in the current dir?
[11:37] <persia> backblue: Yes.  Exactly.
[11:37] <backblue> ok, thanks.
[11:37] <backblue> that's strange, shoulnd be a dir for that?
[11:42] <backblue> if i change something, in the source i just get, it will compile the changes?
[11:42] <asac> anyone here with decent i386 box who can help out respinning a testbuild for ooo in dapper?
[11:43] <asac> its about ffox 2 backport for dapper :) ... so if you want to become a hero, jump in ;)
[11:43] <jmg_> hey guys, my laptop doesnt boot any more, anyone know how to stop it trying to resume a hibernation?
[11:45] <Ash-Fox> remove the 'resume' line in grub
[11:48] <jmg_> Ash-Fox: thanks a lot!!!
[11:48] <Ash-Fox> No problem
[12:10] <backblue> i have created the package i need, with my modification, how can i replace by the one, that i have installed in my system?
[12:11] <lionel> backblue: dpkg -i your_apckage.deb
[12:15] <backblue> why will he install my package? what will he do, with the other that it's already installe?
[12:17] <persia> backblue: It will upgrade from the currently installed package to your new package.
[12:20] <backblue> it have compiled the package, without my modification, how it's the best way to do this?
[12:22] <raphink> #ubuntu-classroom-fr
[12:22] <raphink> oops
[12:32] <illovae> hello
[12:32] <StevenK> Hrm. Linda gets mentioned in robitalille's blog.
[12:33] <\sh> moins
[12:35] <\sh> now, people, ubuntu-wine is registered and already filled with some code of wine-doors ;)
[01:17] <backblue> how can i make a package for ubuntu, but with some changes i need?
[01:18] <persia> backblue: Does the base package already exist in Ubutu?
[01:20] <backblue> yes, i do 'pbuilder build file.dsc' and it gives me the .deb file i need, but not with my modifications, where should i make the changes? maybe i'm not doing them in the right place!
[01:21] <dothebart> backblue: in debian/patches afaik.
[01:21] <backblue> hoo, if i put there, one patch, it will commit it?
[01:22] <persia> backblue: There is a lot of good information about this available starting from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation, but a quick summary is to 1)  unpack the source, 2) make your changes (debian/patches is preferred), 3) update the changelog, 4) make a source package (`debuild -S`), 5) make a binary package from the resulting .dsc.
[01:22] <dothebart> yes. not shure about the name...
[01:22] <backblue> i have read that link, and they dont speak about patchs
[01:24] <persia> backblue: Hunt through the links a bit.  I found https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/PatchingSources listed under MOTU/School/
[01:38] <Lutin> w 14
[01:38] <Lutin> err.
[01:44] <backblue> hi again, very weird, i have the patch in there, i'm compiling the package now, but it does not apply my patch in the new compilation... :|
[01:46] <persia> backblue: Which patch system is in use by the target package?
[01:47] <backblue> i dont understand the question, sorry, what exacly do you want to know?
[01:47] <geser> backblue: which package is it you want to modify?
[01:48] <backblue> network-manager-openvpn-0.3.2svn2342 -> this one.
[01:49] <persia> backblue: And you put a new patch in debian/patches?
[01:49] <backblue> yes, i have.
[01:50] <backblue> and created a new .dsc file, with a new subrelease
[01:50] <geser> it uses cdbs with simple-patchsys
[01:50] <persia> backblue: How are you compiling it?
[01:50] <backblue> i'm doing pbuilder build file.dsc
[01:50] <geser> how did you obtain the new .dsc file?
[01:52] <backblue> i just copy the last default
[01:52] <backblue> and changed only the version
[01:52] <backblue> with the new subrelease
[01:53] <backblue> debuild -S fails, because i dont have the gpg key, of someone that it's in the changelog
[01:53] <persia> backblue: OK.  You want to change the revision (subrelease) by using `dch -i` in the base directory of the package.  You can force debuild -S to work by using debuild -S -us -uc
[01:54] <persia> backblue: Alternately, you can create a new .dsc by running `dpkg-source -b network-manager-openvpn-0.3.2svn2342 network-manager-openvpn_0.3.2svn2342.orig.tar.gz` after you add your patch.
[01:58] <ajmitch> Yee3ya
[01:59] <ajmitch> bad touchpad on laptop
[02:00] <persia> ajmitch: upgrade to the touchscreen :)
[02:00] <ajmitch> persia: sure, buy me a new laptop :)
[02:02] <ajmitch> heh
[02:02] <TheMuso> So its easy for them to get very dirty.
[02:02] <persia> TheMuso: Not even your own?  Plus, one can carry static-free, lint-free, solvent-free wipes in one's pocket :)
[02:03] <TheMuso> Yep.
[02:04] <ScottK> Good morning all.
[02:04] <TheMuso> Hey ScottK.
[02:04] <ajmitch> morning ScottK 
[02:04] <persia> Enjoyable diurnal period ScottK
[02:04] <TheMuso> Night ajmitch.
[02:04] <ScottK> Hi TheMuso, ajmitch, persia.
[02:04] <ScottK> Good night ajmitch
[02:04] <persia> night ajmitch
[02:06] <xxxxx1> morning people!
[02:06] <xxxxx1> :)
[02:07] <DarkSun88> Hi all
[02:34] <xxxxx1> hello Fujitsu 
[02:37] <Fujitsu> Hi xxxxx1.
[02:45] <leonel> eaea  motus  good day !
[02:46] <Hobbsee> hiya
[02:46] <Fujitsu> Hi leonel, Hobbsee
[02:47] <ScottK> Hi leonel and Hobbsee
[02:47] <leonel> Fujitsu:  epa!
[02:47] <Hobbsee> :)
[02:47] <ScottK> It appears we have no buildd's for IA64 for at least the last day.  Known issue?
[02:47] <leonel> ScottK:  let's smash viruses with the newest  clamav ! 
[02:48] <StevenK> ScottK: I've asked Mithrandir to have a look.
[02:48] <ScottK> leonel: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings I've put discussing clamav on the agenda for our next MOTU meeting.  You are welcome to join us.
[02:48] <ScottK> StevenK: Great.
[02:52] <TheMuso> Night folks.
[02:52] <Fujitsu> Night TheMuso.
[02:52] <xxxxx1> TheMuso: night
[02:56] <ScottK> Interesting discussion on software patents (Ubuntu gets mentioned) http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20070522050029860
[03:14] <leonel> ScottK: yes  I've  read,  and  I can help  just let me know  what can I do to  accomplish that  job 
[03:16] <ScottK> leonel: OK.  Do show up at the meeting to discuss as the proposal is going to take community support to make it happen.
[03:19] <davromaniak> hi everybody
[03:20] <davromaniak> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5242 <== any MOTU can use a few minutes to review my package please ???
[03:24] <lucas> davromaniak: you description isn't very well written
[03:24] <lucas> (both short and long descriptions)
[03:24] <davromaniak> ah
[03:24] <lucas> short description doesn't say anything about the timer capabilities, which look important
[03:24] <davromaniak> ok
[03:24] <lucas> and sentences in long description never end
[03:24] <lucas> (no '.')
[03:25] <davromaniak> :s
[03:25] <lucas> why is architecture restricted to i386 ?
[03:25] <lucas> any good reason for this, or should it be 'any' ?
[03:25] <lucas> or 'all' ?
[03:25] <lucas> (it looks like it's a java package ?)
[03:25] <davromaniak> yes
[03:26] <davromaniak> This will only work on x86 linux because of the swt binaries included
[03:26] <fernando> moin all
[03:26] <lucas> davromaniak: azureus is in the same case I think, and is arch:all
[03:27] <davromaniak> ok
[03:27] <lucas> ah no it creates elf executables
[03:28] <davromaniak> I can't find a good description : "Software for scheduled sound recording" is good enough
[03:28] <davromaniak> yes
[03:29] <persia> davromaniak: Do you have the source for the awt binaries?  Can it be made to work on other architectures?
[03:29] <persia> s/awt/swt/
[03:31] <davromaniak> there is a zip called swtsrc.zip in lib directory
[03:32] <persia> davromaniak: The package will probably get rejected if there isn't source for everything.
[03:32] <davromaniak> ok
[03:33] <davromaniak> I think I will stop packaging this program for universe
[03:33] <davromaniak> because the developper has gone MIA since september
[03:34] <persia> davromaniak: At a quick glance, it looks like you might be able to build your .so files during the package compilation if you unpack the .zip file.  If you got this working, it might become arch:all.
[03:35] <davromaniak> ok, I will take a look
[03:39] <davromaniak> grrr, there are some errors while compiling
[03:49] <persia> If something uses gettext, and has a construction like 'printf (_("misspellllling"));', am I correct in assuming that all the translations would break if the spelling was corrected?
[03:50] <StevenK> They would be marked fuzzy.
[03:50] <StevenK> "This might be still correct, please check."
[03:52] <persia> StevenK: I'm thinking of asking for more from bug 64595 to fix that.  Am I correct that the source strings just need to be updated in the .po files?
[03:52] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 64595 in nagios-plugins "Mistakes in nagios-plugins strings" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/64595
[03:52] <StevenK> persia: gettext should do that for you.
[03:52] <StevenK> Along with marking the entries fuzzy.
[03:53] <persia> StevenK: Thanks.  I'll either go learn more about gettext or ignore this bug.
[03:53] <geser> gettext will still display the translation even if the source strings doesn't match?
[03:54] <StevenK> It ought to try. It matches by source location not by string.
[03:55] <StevenK> persia: There is some awful hairy code in Linda so I can convince her to use gettext. I even have scars!
[03:55] <Hobbsee> poor StevenK...
[03:55] <StevenK> Yes, poor me.
[03:55] <persia> StevenK: I'm not surprised.  I'm almost tempted to give up on dropping wx2.4 for gutsy when looking at newpki-client.
[03:56] <StevenK> Bwahaha
[04:01] <pochu> persia: we can remove it too ;)
[04:02] <persia> pochu: newpki-client?  Why?
[04:03] <pochu> persia: because it uses wx2.4 and you can't update it to use 2.6 :p

[04:05] <Hobbsee> removal reason:  because i said so
[04:05] <pochu> Hobbsee: heh :)
[04:05] <persia> Hobbsee: Does that work?
[04:05] <pochu> persia: depends who you are :)
[04:05] <persia> Rationale: Hobbsee said so.
[04:05] <Hobbsee> hehe
[04:05] <Hobbsee> persia: sometimes.
[04:06] <pochu> Hobbsee: if you're an archive admin :)
[04:06] <Hobbsee> hehe
[04:06] <Hobbsee> nope, i'm not one of them
[04:07] <pochu> I know :)
[04:11] <persia> ScottK: I'm never going to get to the wordpress security issue.  Sorry about that.
[04:12] <dholbach> What else do we need to get the new Mentoring process rolling?
[04:12] <dholbach> I'd really like to get it going very very soon, as I'm drowning in Mentoring requests.
[04:12] <persia> dholbach: The MOTU meeting, wider announcement of the new contact points, volunteers, and some workflow for potential mentors.
[04:13] <dholbach> persia: right... I added it to the meeting agenda. I'll take care of the announcement, I'd even volunteer for the 'mentoring reception' for the first term
[04:13] <dholbach> persia: what kind of documentation would help a mentor?
[04:15] <persia> dholbach: I think that those willing to be mentors would be aided by knowing how to register as a potential mentor, and being encouraged to pick some bugs for mentoring (it has certainly collected me a few interested contributors).
[04:15] <dholbach> ok great
[04:15] <dholbach> I'll add something to the proposal
[04:16] <persia> I think those wishing to be mentored would benefit by knowing where to contact (or being so advised here) to get a mentor assigned, and there being more mentored bugs in LP.
[04:16] <dholbach> right
[04:16] <dholbach> we should add that as a task for the Universe HUG DAYs
[04:16] <dholbach> I'll write some documentation about that too
[04:17] <persia> I also think that the reception process should be transparent and public, so other parties can see assignments, etc. (and volunteer to help if reception is swamped, as now).
[04:18] <dholbach> ok
[04:19] <dholbach> that makes sense, the bzr branch will be public - I know that's not really 'easy to use' but will do for the first round
[04:19] <persia> And the most important thing: do you have volunteers lined up for reception?  A new process won't help too much if it's still your mailbox :)
[04:19] <dholbach> highvoltage volunteered to do that too
[04:19] <dholbach> so it'd be the two of us for the first term
[04:19] <persia> CSV in BZR sounds find to start.  I'm just worried about something like what happened to Debian NM mid-sarge.
[04:20] <persia> s/find/fine/
[04:20] <dholbach> what do you mean?
[04:20] <persia> Having a single person in a role when that person had other responsibilities, and the queue becoming unmanageable.
[04:20] <dholbach> right
[04:21] <dholbach> maybe we could have three people in the reception, atm I think that 2 would be good enough
[04:21] <persia> Also, there was no available information about where in process prospectives were, and so many left because it took too long.
[04:21] <dholbach> right
[04:21] <persia> Two sounds plenty, and I'm sure those interested in mentoring will volunteer to help if they aren't receiving contributors fast enough.
[04:22] <dholbach> that'd be awesome
[04:22] <persia> dholbach: In the worst case, some of the contributors could be encouraged to help as part of the process of reaching MOTU-hood.
[04:23] <dholbach> I'll make sure that the announcement will be big enough so we get people within ubuntu{-core,}-dev to help out with that :)
[04:23] <persia> Sounds great :)
[04:24] <joejaxx> just great
[04:24] <joejaxx> now i am in 200 ghost channels on freenode
[04:27] <shawarma> joejaxx: How so? I'm only allowed to join 20 channels.
[04:28] <highvoltage> hey there dholbach 
[04:28] <dholbach> heya highvoltage
[04:28] <joejaxx> like this
[04:28] <joejaxx> 10:28 -!- Irssi: #ubuntu-kernel: Total of 0 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices,  0 normal] 
[04:28] <highvoltage> dholbach: is there anything new I have to do to apply for motu mentorship process? or is that still in discussion?
[04:29] <shawarma> joejaxx: what the?
[04:29] <persia> dholbach: I'm still not sure about "hopefuls".  There are probably others like myself who are happy to help out, but don't necessarily hope to become a MOTU.
[04:29] <joejaxx> shawarma: yeah it happens everytime freenode drops my connection which does not happen that often but stull
[04:29] <dholbach> highvoltage: we'll have a motu meeting on friday and make the process public after that - are you still up for working on the mentoring reception?
[04:29] <persia> highvoltage: Come to the MOTU meeting on Friday, and we'll all vote for you to staff reception :)
[04:29] <joejaxx> s//stull/still/g
[04:29] <highvoltage> dholbach: absolutely
[04:29] <dholbach> persia: what are you unsure about?
[04:30] <dholbach> highvoltage:  ROCK AND ROLL
[04:30] <highvoltage> dholbach, persia: yes, I will be there!
[04:30] <dholbach> highvoltage: I'll prod you after the meeting, so if nobody else steps up to work in this team, it'll be the two of us
[04:30] <persia> dholbach: Nomenclature.  I think "hopefuls" doesn't encourage self-identification.
[04:30] <dholbach> if you have a better word for that
[04:31] <dholbach> I'm all ears
[04:31] <dholbach> I'm no native speaker, so it's a bit hard for me to come up with something new
[04:31] <dholbach> as much as I like "masters of the universe' and all that, 'thundercats' is not an option
[04:31] <persia> dholbach: I like "contributors", and there were recommendations on the mailing list, but it might be a side topic for the meeting, if we have time.
[04:32] <dholbach> I'm happy with contributor
[04:32] <dholbach> I'll change that
[04:32] <dholbach> at least in this process document
[04:32] <persia> That also matches the "Contributors of packages for ubuntu universe" LP team, which these people should be encouraged to join, so as to take advantage of REVU.
[04:33] <dholbach> ok, http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/NewMentoring updated again
[04:34] <highvoltage> dholbach: ok, great
[04:34] <highvoltage> (sorry for dealy in reply, office people keep pesting me)
[04:35] <persia> dholbach: Looks good to me.  Thanks for pushing this.
[04:36] <dholbach> I have high expectations from the process :-)
[04:36] <highvoltage> dholbach: I think you timed out before my reply, yes, that sounds good!
[04:37] <dholbach> highvoltage: super
[04:37] <joejaxx> does anyone see a need for a CA in ubuntu?
[04:38] <persia> joejaxx: Do you mean Certificate Authority?  I thought we had a couple already.
[04:38] <joejaxx> hmm interesting
[04:40] <pochu> dholbach: didn't siretart also step up for the reception?
[04:41] <dholbach> he said he'd do it if nobody else did, but he wanted to mentor for sure
[04:42] <pochu> ok, didn't remember well :)
[04:43] <persia> joejaxx: http://cat.org.au/node/138 is the best HOWTO I can find right now, but there are probably others.  I don't think we have a GUI packaged, so it's not yet trivial.
[04:43] <joejaxx> persia: i was actually thinking about OpenCA
[04:45] <persia> joejaxx: If you want to maintain it, I don't think it would hurt, but I believe the value of something like OpenCA is more in the web of trust surrounding the primary authority than in the software that allows for local authorities.  If each Ubuntu user has their own CA, there is no trust.
[04:46] <joejaxx> persia: yes of course but OpenCA is not trivial to run nor to configure even after it has been packaged
[04:47] <persia> joejaxx: Is it easier or better than just using the openssl command line utilities?
[04:49] <joejaxx> persia: it has a web frontend
[04:49] <joejaxx> ldap support
[04:49] <persia> joejaxx: In that case, in the spirit of making things easier and better, by all means, package it :)
[04:49] <dholbach> highvoltage: http://launchpad.net/~motu-mentoring-reception
[04:50] <highvoltage> dholbach: just got the mail ;)
[04:54] <dholbach> brb
[04:58] <ScottK> persia: Maybe you could stick one of your aspiring mentees with the wordpress issues.
[05:00] <ScottK> joejaxx: There is a Python CA that's already packaged.
[05:01] <joejaxx> ScottK: yeah pyca
[05:02] <persia> ScottK: I'm not that familiar with the security update process - I've only filed one SRU, and testing is going badly.  I'm not sure I'd be the best mentor for that (I probably need one myself :)).
[05:02] <joejaxx> ScottK: :)
[05:02] <ScottK> persia: You get someone to do the heavy lifting and I'll mentor you on security.
[05:04] <persia> ScottK: Hrm.  I'll see if one of them is interested in PHP.
[05:04] <ScottK> persia: Great. 
[05:11] <siretart> highvoltage: dholbach: yay for motu-reception :)
[05:11] <persia> siretart: What do you think about having motu-reception administer ubuntu-universe-contributors?
[05:11] <dholbach> siretart: I think I'll ask for more comments (like blockers we see at the moment) on ubuntu-motu@ rather than discussing it in the meeting
[05:12] <dholbach> then we can get rolling quickly
[05:12] <siretart> ok
[05:12] <dholbach> persia: don't the ubuntu-universe-contributors also have to take care of REVU and stuff?
[05:12] <siretart> persia: so that motu-reception can add members? - seems sane to me
[05:13] <dholbach> then it'd be nice to have another somebody in the team :)
[05:13] <persia> dholbach: They don't take care of anything: it's just a gateway group to be allowed to upload to REVU.  I'd think anyone reaching motu-reception should be added to the team.
[05:13] <siretart> hm. the team is open anyway. we might want to change that. - well, I think that should be up to motu-council/reception
[05:13] <siretart> anyway, I'm off for home, cu in a few hours
[05:13] <dholbach> see you siretart
[05:13] <persia> I think ubuntu-universe-contributors is an open team - people just need to be pointed there.
[05:13] <dholbach> yeah, let's discuss that somewhere
[05:13] <dholbach> right
[05:14] <dholbach> SaneWikiDocumentation2007!
[05:14] <persia> Is this a new spec?
[05:14] <dholbach> it should be
[05:14] <dholbach> and assigned to everybody in ubuntu-dev :)
[05:15] <persia> Are any of the contributors lurking here interested in documentation?  The MOTU wiki needs a lot of help, and it would be a great way to learn the best practices of the MOTU team.
[05:15] <konam_> hi, someone knows how to create a .deb package of a theme?
[05:16] <dholbach> konam_: try checking out https://code.launchpad.net/example-look
[05:22] <PriceChild> woo persia just got your patch, gonna check it works for me then do my best to sort out the rest... *cringes at the COPYING*
[05:23] <persia> PriceChild: heh.
[05:23] <konam_> dholbach how can that help me
[05:23] <konam_> ?
[05:25] <dholbach> konam_: if you check out the branch it contains an example packaging for a theme
[05:25] <PriceChild> persia, ah... well that file doesn't say it applies to anything does it... and afaik no other files say they are gpl'd... although probably best I check that.
[05:26] <konam_> dholbach i have to be registered?
[05:26] <dholbach> konam_: no
[05:26] <dholbach> konam_: the people in #ubuntu-artwork can help you with that too
[05:26] <persia> PriceChild: You probably want to check all the files.  They should all have a header (either GPL or Apache).  As far as I can see, most of the source is Apache (as is upstream debian/), but the GPL is included for some reason.  Tim needs to fix that.
[05:27] <konam_> dholbach they redirected me to here
[05:27] <konam_> :S
[05:27] <dholbach> konam_: bzr checkout http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-art-pkg/example-look/dev
[05:27] <konam_> dholbach i dont see the branch thing
[05:27] <dholbach> konam_: kwwii should be able to help you
[05:28] <PriceChild> persia, indeedy, I guess its just a template he used for most of the files that just happenned to include that file to persuade him to use GPL :)
[05:28] <konam_> dholbach i cant see the last link.....
[05:29] <dholbach> konam_: just run the command
[05:29] <dholbach> bzr checkout http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-art-pkg/example-look/dev
[05:30] <persia> PriceChild: Looking further, I think you need the GPL, as aclocal.m4 and the like are GPL, but with exceptions that allow unlimited distribution.  You just need to fix debian/copyright.
[05:31] <PriceChild> Ah ok... so just name the files that are GPL'd. And because they allow unlimited distribution there's no need to worry about incompatability
[05:32] <persia> PriceChild: I think so.  Check everything to be sure (I only checked a few files).
[05:32] <PriceChild> will do thanks :)
[05:37] <konam_> dholbach nothing happen
[05:38] <dholbach> konam_: do you have a dev directory now?
[05:38] <konam_> dholbach yes
[05:38] <dholbach> konam_: that's where the branch has been checked out to
[05:39] <konam_> dholbach and........
[05:40] <highvoltage> siretart: yay! :)
[05:42] <PriceChild> persia, wooo the patch works :) Now for the fun bit.
[05:43] <persia> sending it upstream?
[05:43] <dholbach> konam_: what do you mean by "and.........."?
[05:44] <konam_> dholbach i mean, how can that help me with the creation of the .deb package, i dont get it, sorry
[05:44] <PriceChild> persia, yeah I'll email that now :)
[05:44] <konam_> can you explain me what to do in that directory
[05:45] <dholbach> konam_: basically installing devscripts and running debuild -us -uc will build the package for you
[05:45] <dholbach> konam_: but to adjust it to your theme you will have to do changes you have to figure out yourself
[05:46] <dholbach> konam_: that's just an example artwork package
[05:46] <konam_> dholbach ok, got it :)
[05:47] <dholbach> konam_: https://help.ubuntu.com/6.10/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html has a basic packaging guide - it might help you
[05:48] <konam_> thanks
[05:48] <konam_> :)
[05:48] <dholbach> np
[05:50] <PriceChild> persia, I'm confused by your points 3&4
[05:52] <PriceChild> persia, isn't it libGizmod.so.3 that is the symlink... and that's included in libgizmod not -dev
[05:52] <persia> PriceChild: When I built it, and looked at the contents, both -dev packages contained a symlink for the .so files, but didn't include the .so files.  The same symlink was also contained in the library packages.
[05:52] <PriceChild> this is usr/lib/libGizmod.so.3 ?
[05:53] <persia> PriceChild: The link, but not the file.  Try `dpkg --contents libh-dev_3.1-0ubuntu1_i386.deb`, and look at the last line.
[05:54] <PriceChild> persia, yeah... and libh_3.1-0ubuntu1_i386.deb contaisn that file?
[05:54] <PriceChild> Or am I extremely confused...? :S
[05:54] <PriceChild> ahh...
[05:54] <PriceChild> wait no yeah... :S
[05:54] <persia> PriceChild: Right.  You're shipping the symlink twice.
[05:55] <PriceChild> Ahhh... I'm with you, but in the first one its libH.so and in the second its libH.so.3
[05:56] <PriceChild> Right ok Im' happy now
[05:56] <persia> PriceChild: Sorry.  I didn't read carefully enough.  You probably want both, but they should be in the library packages, not the -dev packages.
[05:56] <PriceChild> So I don't include the libH.so from the -dev package
[05:56] <PriceChild> oh...
[05:56] <PriceChild> But http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/column/libpkg-guide/libpkg-guide.html says otherwise S:
[05:56] <dabaR> Is there an Ubuntu release for the hppa architecture?
[05:57] <PriceChild> On that document in section one it says that the symlink libfoo.so.X  is in the lib, and in section 2 it mentions that the -dev includes usr/lib/*.so
[05:58] <persia> PriceChild: Right.  Sorry.  Ignore 3 & 4.
[05:58] <PriceChild> cool :)
[05:59] <dabaR> I see there is a package called bootcd-hppa and I do not think there is at all an Ubuntu-hppa. 
[06:01] <persia> Does anyone see any reason why Ubuntu distributed webboard shouldn't use http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org by default instead of http://pastebin.com ?
[06:03] <dabaR> Is it distributed by debian as well?
[06:03] <Lutin> dabaR: not afaik
[06:03] <dabaR> what is the version number?
[06:04] <Lutin> 0.2.1-0ubuntu3
[06:04] <PriceChild> persia, about the libvisual... the soname is actor_gizmod.so but I'm unsure as to what to name the package seen as you can't have _s ?
[06:04] <dabaR> Lutin: if you see 0ubuntuX that means it is not in Ubuntu. The 0 before Ubuntu tells you that.
[06:05] <lionel> There is a port of Ubuntu on hppa
[06:05] <lionel> see ports.ubuntu.com
[06:06] <Lutin> dabaR: 0ubuntuX means not in debian _or_ package which is in debian, but has a newer upstream version in ubuntu, _or_ package which is both in ubuntu and debian but are totally different
[06:06] <joejaxx> dabaR: yes
[06:07] <joejaxx> dabaR: wait
[06:07] <joejaxx> dabaR: do you mean a hppa port? or actual installation cds
[06:07] <joejaxx> there is a hppa port
[06:08] <dabaR> joejaxx: I mean whether it makes sense at all to have hppa specific packages, and I think that was answered.
[06:08] <dabaR> What about a package taht is for ia-64? Is it also for amd64?
[06:10] <dabaR> lionel, joejaxx: thank you.
[06:10] <joejaxx> dabaR: if you look on packages.ubuntu.com it will tell you what arches the package is built for
[06:10] <dabaR> joejaxx: I see ia64 on some, and amd64 on some; are they not interchangeable?
[06:11] <joejaxx> it depends if the code was not written to run on a certain arch it will not be built for it
[06:11] <joejaxx> example: yaboot
[06:11] <joejaxx> that is only built for powerpc
[06:12] <persia> PriceChild: Can you think of any reason why any package other than gizmod would want to link aganst libvisual?  If not, just don't ship the .a files, and you don't need a new package.
[06:13] <dabaR> I am trying to fix a bug in a package called bootcd. It builds several arch-specific packages, the specific one the bug is in
[06:14] <PriceChild> persia, I'm reasonably sure it provides things for amarok... I can't think of any reason for others but that's out of lack of experience.
[06:14] <PriceChild> persia, and about the library names... yeah that was silly and it should be libgizmod3 and libh3 but then the -dev names should change to libgizmod3-dev and libh3-dev as well shouldn't they?
[06:15] <dabaR> I am trying to fix a bug in a package called bootcd. It builds several arch-specific packages, the specific one the bug is in is ia64. The bug is in that the dependency for bootcd-ia64 is elilo ia64. Which is only built for i386 in Ubuntu. I see debian has the ia64 package. How should I go about this fix? I suppose I am supposed to get all the packages from debian and test whether they all build fine in Ubuntu.
[06:16] <ScottK> dabaR: Figuring out why Ubuntu only builds it for i386 and rectifying that problem would seem the cleanest path from what you say.
[06:16] <joejaxx> dabaR: you need to
[06:16] <joejaxx> what ScottK said :)
[06:17] <dabaR> It did not contain specific instructions ;)
[06:17] <persia> PriceChild: Sorry, I meant link against /usr/lib/libvisual-0.4/actor/actor_gizmod.so.  I think the .a and .la files can be dropped, as I don't think any other application needs to link against gizmod's plugin.  Dropping these means not having another package (.a files are only supposed to be in -dev packages).
[06:18] <dabaR> contact the person that last worked on elilo in Ubuntu?
[06:18] <PriceChild> persia, Ok cool and the .so stays in that package.
[06:18] <joejaxx> interesting
[06:19] <joejaxx> the control file for elilo says that it is supposed to buld it
[06:19] <persia> PriceChild: -dev package names should not generally have sonames.  That way a package can build-depend on the latest -dev, and get the latest version.
[06:19] <joejaxx> build*
[06:19] <joejaxx> which means the package would be in ports
[06:19] <ScottK> dabaR: According to LP, elilo built for IA64 https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/elilo/3.6-2ubuntu2
[06:20] <PriceChild> persia, right ok... so we don't listen to that document on this one.
[06:21] <joejaxx> bootcd-ia64 should probably be in ports
[06:21] <joejaxx> because it is assuming it is in the same repository
[06:22] <joejaxx> debian does not have a "ports" repository
[06:22] <joejaxx> all the arches are in one repository
[06:23] <persia> PriceChild: The library isn't likely to be used by enough packages that both versions need to be maintained in the archives simultaneously, hence libgizmod-dev.  For libraries everyone uses, libfoo2-dev is better, so that multiple versions can exist simultaneously while a transition happens.
[06:23] <PriceChild> persia, ok sounds good thanks :)
[06:23] <dabaR> Is ports checked to see whether a package is there by default?
[06:23] <dabaR> geser: Are you here?
[06:24] <joejaxx> ScottK: how would this be handled?
[06:24] <leonel> do you know if there's an   openjdk  team ?
[06:24] <leonel> can't find any
[06:25] <ScottK> joejaxx: How would what be handled?
[06:25] <dabaR> joejaxx, ScottK: The bug I am chasing is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bootcd/+bug/96365
[06:25] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 96365 in bootcd "[UNMETDEPS]  bootcd has unmet dependencies" [Undecided,Confirmed]  
[06:27] <ScottK> dabaR: What would an ia64 boot CD be an arch all package?
[06:27] <ScottK> What/why
[06:27] <bddebian> Heya gang
[06:27] <ScottK> Heya bddebian.
[06:28] <bddebian> Heya ScottK
[06:28] <ScottK> bddebian: nixternal did courier yesterday...
[06:28] <bddebian> I saw
[06:28] <ScottK> It was a good learning experience ...
[06:28] <persia> hey bddebian
[06:28] <bddebian> Hi persia
[06:28] <joejaxx> ScottK: the problem is we have two archives
[06:29] <ScottK> We do?
[06:29] <joejaxx> and bootcd-ia64 exists in archive.ubuntu
[06:29] <joejaxx> ScottK: yeap
[06:29] <joejaxx> ports.ubuntu
[06:29] <joejaxx> and archive.ubuntu
[06:29] <dabaR> ScottK: All the arch specific packages are done as architecture all in the control file of bootcd. If it was done as arch specific in the control file, would I not be able to see the packages dfor the other arches?
[06:29] <joejaxx> so bootcd-ia64 exists in archive.ubuntu while the ia64 version of elilo does not
[06:29] <ScottK> Hmmm, I just run i386, so I had no idea.
[06:30] <persia> bddebian: I'm seeing lots of bugs in the UUS queue that have patches, but not debdiffs.  Did you intend to upload these at some point, or is this just a change of workflow over time?
[06:30] <dabaR> joejaxx: elilo does not seem to exist in the ports either.
[06:30] <ScottK> According to LP it was successfully built.
[06:30] <joejaxx> elilo is built for ia64
[06:31] <dabaR> You can see it in the ports?
[06:31] <ScottK> dabaR: See the link I gave you above.  
[06:32] <dabaR> I looked in Universe for ports, and it was not in the packages.gz list, so I figured it is not realy there.
[06:32] <ScottK> It sounds to me more and more like you have an archive management problem, but a bug in a package problem.
[06:32] <joejaxx> Elilo for ia64 is in the main component of ports.ubuntu
[06:33] <dabaR> THank you.
[06:33] <dabaR> So it seems that the control file is the one that has the bug? Do you agree
[06:33] <joejaxx> all needs to be changed to ia64 i believe
[06:34] <joejaxx> since the archives are split up
[06:34] <dabaR> ScottK: When you search for bootcd in your package manager, do you see all the arches and should not be seeing them?
[06:36] <joejaxx> 'all' to 'ia64'
[06:36] <ScottK> dabaR: No, I was looking at geser's last comment on the bug.
[06:37] <joejaxx> for the package specification for bootcd-ia64 in the control file
[06:37] <dabaR> ScottK: Im sorry, I do not understand what you mean by no.
[06:37] <dabaR> joejaxx: I am trying to figure out whether it should be done only for the ia64 version, or for all the arch specific packages(i386, hppa)
[06:39] <joejaxx> it would have to be done for all the arches in ports
[06:39] <ScottK> dabaR: You asked if I saw all archs in my package manager.  My answer was no.  I didn't look.  I was questioning arch all based on the last comment in the bug.
[06:39] <joejaxx> gah
[06:39] <joejaxx> only ia64 nevermind
[06:40] <ScottK> There are arch for which elilo FTBFS, but IA64 isn't one of them.
[06:40] <PriceChild> persia, about the files which are "GPL'd"... do I really have to mention them in debian/copyright? Because they all say that if you include a file generated by autoconf (ie. aclocal.m4) then you get to distribute them however you want... or do I have to mention that I am allowed to distribute them because of this special exception?
[06:41] <dabaR> OK, to shorten the discussion...I have spoken with the maintainer before. I can ask him what he thinks. Would that be the best thing to do?
[06:41] <ScottK> Sounds reasonable to me.
[06:41] <ScottK> You're likely to get better advice there than from random people here that aren't familiar with the package (like me).
[06:42] <dabaR> Thank you guys!
[06:45] <persia> PriceChild: My understanding is that you need to document the license of any files distributed in the package.  At least in the case of aclocal.m4, the header appears to grant broad usage, modification, and distribution rights, but does not appear to grant the right to relicense the file.
[06:48] <PriceChild> persia, ok so I should just list every file that is copyright the fsf the other files all seem to give unlimited rights.
[06:49] <persia> PriceChild: That sounds OK to me, but be sure to check carefully.  Copyright is one of the biggest reason for archive admins to reject packages.
[06:49] <PriceChild> persia, hehe will do.
[06:53] <ScottK> PriceChild: Seem to is unlikely to go through IMO.  Put yourself in the mind frame of the archive admin who is responsible to make sure Ubuntu never gets accused to distributing stuff it doesn't have the legal right to distribute.
[07:03] <welshbyte> oh wow, there's a debian RFS for Frets On Fire, that's amazing :)
[07:04] <bddebian> persia: Sorry, got pulled into a meeting.  What was your question?
[07:05] <PriceChild> persia, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/22011/ How's that?
[07:06] <persia> bddebian: No worries.  I'm just reviewing the really old UUS bugs to reduce the queue, and noticed a bunch that contained simple patches, but not debdiffs that you had subscribed in February and March.  I wondered if you planned to upload them, or if it was an artifact of the developing workflow for UUS.
[07:06] <persia> PriceChild: Great.  I'll take a look in a bit.
[07:08] <persia> PriceChild: Sorry.  I misread your link.  That looks OK to me, but you'd do best to get confirmation from someone with more experience with debian/copyright files.
[07:09] <bddebian> persia: I was trying to upload some of them but feel free :-)
[07:10] <persia> bddebian: OK.  I'll chalk it up as an artifact then, and either upload or unsub requesting more input, depending on the status of the patch.  Thanks.
[07:12] <bddebian> persia: Esssentially I was was trying to do the same thing, clean up old stuff :-)
[07:15] <ScottK> Congratulations somerville32
[07:15] <ScottK> persia: Why not just a tag for patches.
[07:15] <PriceChild> wooo somerville32 :D
[07:15] <nixternal> oi oi
[07:15] <persia> ScottK: We have that.  Perhaps we just need to point people at it.
[07:16] <ScottK> Yes.
[07:16] <persia> ScottK: Right.  Thanks.
[07:27] <hsitter> should I mind about --W: kwin-style-flatknifty source: changelog-should-mention-nmu-- ?
[07:27] <nixternal> no
[07:28] <nixternal> only way to get rid of that is become the Debian Maintainer or Ubuntu Maintainer which we don't do, or add NMU to the first line in the changelog, which we don't do...so just nevermind the nmu stuff
[07:28] <bddebian> hsitter: Ignore that one
[07:28] <hsitter> ok, thx
[07:34] <persia> Good night all
[07:37] <hsitter> bddebian: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5245 adapted according to mr_pouit's comment
[07:51] <dabaR> I am trying to fix bug #116222 I have created a .desktop file, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/22020/. This is the first time I am doing this, so please look it over and make suggestions.
[07:51] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 116222 in smart "Smart launcher not added to Menu" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/116222
[08:04] <Loic> Hi
[08:05] <Loic> I still have a problem with a SRU
[08:05] <Loic> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xvidcore/+bug/84705
[08:05] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 84705 in xvidcore "[Feisty]  libxvidcore missing dependency for yasm for i386 arch : more than 3 times slower than in edgy" [Medium,Fix committed]  
[08:06] <Loic> I think I've done all I could to get it done, and the change is really trivial, but even though it's been in proposed for a few weeks and tested, it still doesn't appear in the repos
[08:20] <LaserJock> Loic: well, it eventually needs to go into -updates
[08:22] <Loic> How do we do that?
[08:42] <LaserJock> Loic: follow the Stable Release Updates procedure
[09:03] <PriceChild> I need to write a man page... any preferred documentation that I should be looking at?
[09:05] <fernando> PriceChild: http://www.cs.hmc.edu/qref/writing_man_pages.html http://www.google.com =)
[09:05] <Flannel> PriceChild: a good dictionary/thesaurus might be a good reference as well
[09:06] <PriceChild> Yeah I found my current one from google too. I'll just use whatever works, but I like yours better :P
[09:06] <PriceChild> Flannel, what did i misspell? :)
[09:06] <Flannel> PriceChild: nothing, I wasn't implying you did
[09:09] <Lutin> could someone tell me what's the difference beween libboost_regex-mt.so and libboost_regex-st.so ?
[09:13] <lfittl> Lutin, single threaded and multi threaded versions
[09:15] <Lutin> lfittl: thanks :)
[09:23] <PriceChild> Right a manpage made... :)
[09:24] <bddebian> Joy :-)
[09:35] <ScottK> Fujitsu: I'm currently looking at Bug #95775.  Based on the package description for python-scipy-core and the information in the bug, it looks like python-scipy should not conflct/replace python-scipy-core.  I'm going to look into the source, but since you've been active on python-scipy, I thought I'd check and see if you knew/had an opinion.
[09:35] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 95775 in python-scipy "python-scipy does not included scipy_distutils and it conflicts with python-scipy-core" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/95775
[09:37] <ASCIIGirl> PriceChild, dh_installman debian/yourmanpage.x
[09:37] <PriceChild> I'm using cdbs so I guess I can just plonk the man page in debian/ and it'll work then?
[09:38] <ASCIIGirl> PriceChild, Im not very used to cdbs..let me check (/me loves dh_*)
[09:38] <PriceChild> I'm trying now :)
[09:38] <PriceChild> Thanks.
[09:38] <ASCIIGirl> np
[09:39] <ScottK> PriceChild: If you get the source for pyspf and look it it's debian/rules then you'll see it.
[09:39] <PriceChild> ok cool thanks
[09:49] <stijn_pol> Hello, I am using sbuild on lvm volume and I am getting following error: Required device-mapper target(s) not detected in your kernel. Any ideas??
[09:53] <stijn_pol> ok, problem solved with: sudo modprobe dm_snapshot
[09:54] <Loic> I've followed the MOUT-SRU for package xvidcore (see Lanchpad Bug #84705) but the package still hasn't been added to feisty-updates. Can anybody point me what I should do now?
[09:54] <Loic> I've done Modify the verification-motu-needed tag to a verification-motu-done
[09:54] <Loic> and "Ensure that the ubuntu-sru team is subscribed."
[09:55] <Loic> But still nothing
[09:56] <LaserJock> well, how long has it been since you changed the tag?
[09:57] <Loic> more than one week
[09:58] <LaserJock> and how long has ubuntu-sru been subscribed? about the same time?
[09:59] <Loic> a bit less
[09:59] <ScottK> One possibility is that pitti normally does stuff like this on Friday.  He uploaded a bunch of stuff last Friday, but may not have gotten it all because the week before he was at UDS and nothing got uploaded the week before.
[09:59] <ScottK> So it may just be he's running behind.
[10:00] <Loic> last week, maybe thursday
[10:00] <Loic> ok
[10:01] <ScottK> LaserJock: Are you familiar with the python-scipy package?
[10:01] <Loic> Another question :) I uploaded a diff for gutsy (same package, same bug, same fix), do I have to do anything special since it's been uploaded to the page with the SRU for feisty?
[10:02] <LaserJock> ScottK: a bit
[10:02] <LaserJock> it's one of the few packages I actually use ;-)
[10:02] <ScottK> OK.  It currently conflicts with python-scipy-core, but that looks wrong to me.
[10:02] <ajmitch> morning
[10:02] <ScottK> I'm looking at Bug #97575
[10:02] <LaserJock> it's messy business
[10:03] <ScottK> Morning ajmitch
[10:03] <LaserJock> python-scipy-core has been replaced with python-numpy
[10:03] <ScottK> Oops, wrong number
[10:03] <joejaxx> Goodmorning ajmitch 
[10:03] <ScottK> OK.
[10:04] <LaserJock> bug #95775
[10:04] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 84705 in xvidcore "[Feisty]  libxvidcore missing dependency for yasm for i386 arch : more than 3 times slower than in edgy" [Medium,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84705
[10:04] <LaserJock> umm
[10:04] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 97575 in restricted-manager "restricted-manager doesn't list my nvidia GeForce Go 7400 (dup-of: 93209)" [Undecided,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/97575
[10:04] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 93209 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.20 "Please ship proper modaliases for nvidia, fglrx & co" [High,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/93209
[10:04] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 95775 in python-scipy "python-scipy does not included scipy_distutils and it conflicts with python-scipy-core" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/95775
[10:05] <ScottK> That one...
[10:05] <LaserJock> hmm, well ok ;-)
[10:05] <LaserJock> oh wait, is it TB right now?
[10:05] <ScottK> Looking at the scipy/scipy-core source it's clear that scipy does not in fact replace scipy.  Looking at numpy now then.
[10:05] <ScottK> TB?
[10:07] <ScottK> LaserJock: From a quick look I do not see the distutils tools from scipy-core in numpy.
[10:07] <LaserJock> have you checked upstream?
[10:08] <ScottK> Not yet
[10:08] <ScottK> From looking in the packages it looks like the (for example) disutils stuff in numpy is less than in scipy-core.
[10:09] <LaserJock> that very well could be
[10:10] <LaserJock> they overhauled a lot going from scipy-core to numpy
[10:11] <ScottK> So it looks then like instead of scipy conflicting with scipy-core, numpy should conflict/replace scipy-core
[10:12] <ScottK> And then one wonders why we don't just do a removal for scipy-core?
[10:12] <ScottK> Hmmm
[10:12] <LaserJock> I guess for legacy reasons
[10:14] <ScottK> Hmmm
[10:14] <LaserJock> hmm, anybody else feel like this core-dev policy is a bit of a burden on the MC
[10:17] <ajmitch> it's what we're paid to do, right?
[10:17] <LaserJock> lol
[10:19] <ScottK> Volunteer as much time for it as you feel appropriate.
[10:56] <TheMuso> Hey al.,
[10:57] <TheMuso> all
[10:57] <pochu> Hey TheMuso! :)
[11:13] <nixternal> if you need help, call me...my number is ->  nixternal: ping!
[11:13] <nixternal> I have a bloody nose so give me 10 minutes :) I am in a packaging mood
[11:14] <crimsun> lies, you're just attempting to fix your broken Vista install.  Again.
[11:14] <nixternal> I know, I head>desk with my Vista box and broke my nose
[11:17] <bddebian> heh
[11:24] <xxxxx1> bye all!
[11:42] <dabaR> I am trying to create a .desktop file in relation to bug #116222. I have created a draft at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/22026/. Can someone review and advise, please?
[11:42] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 116222 in smart "Smart launcher not added to Menu" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/116222
[11:44] <crimsun> don't hard-code paths for icons
[11:44] <crimsun> Icon=/usr/share/pycentral/smartpm/site-packages/smart/interfaces/images/smart.png  <--
[11:45] <crimsun> either use its existing icon in /usr/share/pixmaps/  _without_ the absolute path, or adjust the packaging (debian/rules or debian/foo.install) to install its icon into /usr/share/pixmaps/
[11:46] <crimsun> e.g., Icon=smart.png
[11:48] <crimsun> in fact, in most instances you can simply omit the extension (Icon=smart)
[11:49] <dabaR> I thought that may be an issue. Would a patch to debian/rules be to add mv /usr/share/pycentral/smartpm/site-packages/smart/interfaces/images/smart.png /usr/share/pixmaps/ to the build install rule?
[12:00] <imbrandon> dabaR, no debian/<package>.install would be better
[12:06] <dabaR> imbrandon: that would contain that exact text?
[12:06] <imbrandon> no
[12:07] <dabaR> That would contain /usr/share/pixmaps/smart.png?
[12:08] <dabaR> As the only line in it.
[12:08] <imbrandon> probably not, i havent looked at the package
[12:09] <dabaR> Well, bootcd-i386.install in the bootcd package contains 2 lines with absolute paths, that is why I figured.
[12:10] <imbrandon> man dh_install will tell you the useage
[12:11] <dabaR> And then I can try building the package, and test myself, OK, good idea.
[12:14] <dabaR> Where does a .desktop file go? into debian?