=== persia [n=persia@ubuntu/member/persia] has joined #ubuntu-devel === math_b [n=mathieu@vbo91-2-82-239-207-88.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === iceman__ [n=iceman@cable-87-244-154-165.upc.chello.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel === iceman__ [n=iceman@cable-87-244-154-165.upc.chello.be] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Bye!"] === zerbero_1 [n=jga@pD9E636D1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === stdin [i=stdin@unaffiliated/binary2k2] has joined #ubuntu-devel === fsmw [n=Fernando@200.72.33.75] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jml [n=jml@121.44.219.152] has joined #ubuntu-devel === bryce_ [n=bryce@71.237.200.28] has joined #ubuntu-devel === zerbero_1 [n=jga@pD9E636D1.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Konversation] === beuno [n=martin@ubuntu/member/beuno] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Monk-e [n=guido@c529dd229.cable.wanadoo.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel === zerbero_1 [n=jga@pD9E636D1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === iceman [n=iceman@cable-87-244-154-165.upc.chello.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel === blackskad [n=blackska@d54C1A48C.access.telenet.be] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === mc44 [n=mc44@unaffiliated/mc44] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Exit,] === calc [n=calc@cpe-24-162-49-93.houston.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === beuno [n=martin@ubuntu/member/beuno] has joined #ubuntu-devel === haggai [n=halls@credativ.bcnadsl.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === gnomefreak [n=gnomefre@ubuntu/member/gnomefreak] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:17] morning all === svolpe [n=Gerrath@unaffiliated/gerrath] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:34] Hobbsee: hi [02:34] hey calc, how's it going? [02:36] Hobbsee: doing pretty good, still haven't finished closing on my condo :\ [02:36] awww [02:36] found out my bank screwed up so i can't even get bank statements for the past 2 years due to some weird account crap they pulled on me [02:36] but they are going to send a letter to my lender to clear up anything [02:36] so whatever works :) [02:37] heh === xfceslacker [n=xfceslac@24-183-204-14.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === LeeJunFan [n=junfan@adsl-76-204-9-149.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === cjwatson_ [n=cjwatson@82-69-40-219.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === cprov [n=cprov@monga.dorianet.com.br] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mderk [n=ubiq@59.41.165.71] has joined #ubuntu-devel === superm1 [n=superm1@ubuntu/member/superm1] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:53] evenin' folks. time for some dinner. :) [03:00] hey keescook === mderk [n=ubiq@121.32.161.243] has joined #ubuntu-devel === xfceslacker [n=xfceslac@24-183-204-14.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Kopete] === iceman__ [n=iceman@cable-87-244-154-165.upc.chello.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel === iceman__ [n=iceman@cable-87-244-154-165.upc.chello.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel === johanbr [n=j@blk-224-156-151.eastlink.ca] has joined #ubuntu-devel === haggai [n=halls@credativ.bcnadsl.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === iwj [n=ian@xenophobe.extern.relativity.greenend.org.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === nitrocks [n=eric@c-71-61-81-226.hsd1.wv.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === beuno [n=martin@ubuntu/member/beuno] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Sarah [n=user@14.5.233.220.exetel.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === hile [n=hile@nblzone-240-170.nblnetworks.fi] has joined #ubuntu-devel === milli [n=milli@63-145-6-84.dia.static.qwest.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === cr3 [n=marc@pdpc/supporter/bronze/cr3] has joined #ubuntu-devel === alex-weej [n=alex@halls-129-31-82-59.hor.ic.ac.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-devel === zul [n=chuck@CPE0006258ec6c1-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === nags [n=nags@125.16.129.16] has joined #ubuntu-devel === j_ack [n=jack@p508daade.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Hobbsee_ [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-devel === calc [n=calc@cpe-24-162-49-93.houston.res.rr.com] has left #ubuntu-devel [] [05:17] Could I ask an archive-admin to forcibly reject webboard 0.2.1-0ubuntu4 before it is compiled and released? I'd like to release a replacement -0ubuntu4 instead (and maintain a clean changelog). Apologies. [05:18] persia: just upload another [05:18] dont think the archive admisn are awake [05:19] Hobbsee: OK. === minghua [n=minghua@ubuntu/member/minghua] has joined #ubuntu-devel === stub [n=stub@ppp-58.8.211.59.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Knightlust [n=Dax@ubuntu/member/knightlust] has joined #ubuntu-devel === zenrox [n=zenrox@pool-71-120-243-30.spknwa.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === wereHamster|zZz is now known as wereHamster === freeflying [n=freeflyi@ubuntu/member/freeflying] has joined #ubuntu-devel === wereHamster is now known as wereHamster|away === stratus [n=stratus@201.53.55.52] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jsgotangco [n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-devel === marcheu [n=marcheu@lattice.u-strasbg.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel === racarr [n=robb@pool-71-163-244-36.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === pitti [n=pitti@195.227.105.180] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:22] Good morning [07:22] morning pitti [07:24] morning, pitti [07:26] hey pitti, Mithrandir === tritium [n=tritium@ubuntu/member/tritium] has joined #ubuntu-devel === pitti hugs Hobbsee, Burgundavia, and Mithrandir === Hobbsee hugs pitti and everyone else :D === Hobbsee be squashed, though, as everyone else is bigger than her. === Burgundavia hugs the world! [07:30] morning, Hobbsee [07:31] morning :) === Hobbsee wonders how high one can make the load on one's computer, when building kde packages. [07:34] 00:34:01 up 18:22, 1 user, load average: 3.70, 3.07, 2.37 [07:34] so far [07:35] 00:35:16 up 18:23, 1 user, load average: 4.10, 3.33, 2.51 once it properly starts [07:35] just build more of them? [07:35] that's with 3 at once === Hobbsee is about half way thru [07:36] 8 done, or almost done, 10 more to do. [07:36] morning Mithrandir === robitaille [i=robitail@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-devel === blackskad [n=blackska@d54C1A48C.access.telenet.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel === pitti shakes his head at bug 110724 [07:52] Launchpad bug 110724 in openoffice.org "OpenOffice runs as root for all users" [Undecided,Rejected] https://launchpad.net/bugs/110724 === TomaszD_ [n=tom@unaffiliated/tomaszd] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:53] pitti: it is a bit crazy, isn't it? [07:53] pitti: is that another bug for the wall of shame? [07:53] a proprietary Samsung printer driver which chmod u+s soffice.bin? That's *hilarious* [07:53] Hobbsee: indeed, fortunately not our wall [07:53] I don't want to know what crazy stuff 3rd party drivers do on windows [07:54] heh [07:54] pitti: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/116344 was the first candidate, if you were wondering. [07:54] Launchpad bug 116344 in Ubuntu "Sifilinaptic Package Error for 3 days" [Undecided,Rejected] [07:55] I still love that [07:55] Sifilinaptic? [07:56] Synaptic was with a gentoo package frontend and caught a rather unpleasant bacterial infection? [07:56] bad pun :/ [07:57] Hobbsee: well, I'd still not throw 'PEBCAK' at reporters; they might have used automatix and such, which is still PEBCAK, but on a level where they cannot relate it to the bug any more :-/ [07:57] pitti: i only did due to the arrogance of the bugreporter. [07:57] when you're going to be that rude, then no, sorry, you're not going to get much of a reply [07:57] I agree, it was a stupid report [07:57] and the actual part of that bug is already filed [07:58] Hobbsee: oh, what was it? a proprietary Canon printer driver this time? :-P [07:59] no, that synaptic is dying over a malformed repository, rather than just ignoring it [07:59] and giving an unclear "file a bug" warning [07:59] ah, right; I meant, is it actually known what adds 'sudo' lines to sources.list? === Hobbsee would suspect an "echo" [08:00] heh === Hobbsee hasnt seen that reported before, ever, so.... === pitti registers a spec NoMoreSudoByDefault [08:00] haha === Hobbsee registers a spec NoMoreStupidityByDefault [08:00] 'Use case: if you cannot configure your system in a rescue root shell, you do not deserve to.' === Hobbsee registers another spec IQTestForUsersDuringInstallation === Lure [n=lure@89-212-19-55.dynamic.dsl.t-2.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:01] Actually, echo sudo >> /etc/apt/sources.list won't work, since the shell will try and open sources.list for writing and fail. [08:01] It could be a botched script. [08:01] Yeah. You have to use tee [08:01] i did wonder if it was tee. that was the other one coming to mind [08:01] StevenK: blame automatix? [08:01] StevenK: that's what I was afraid of; there might be some automatix-like thing which screws it up [08:01] that's why I'm interested in finding dups of that [08:01] pitti: Yup. [08:02] yay, automatixcrack. [08:02] that reminds me... === pitti adds an apt sources.list filter to apport [08:02] automatix et al should just use /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ .. [08:04] why not make sources.list read-only and force people to put other stuff in .d :) [08:05] haha [08:07] tepsipakki: immutable, or hard-coded? [08:09] ajmitch: hmm, what's the difference there? === Hobbsee_ [n=Hobbsee@CPE-124-189-12-176.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === tsmithe [n=toby@ubuntu/member/tsmithe] has joined #ubuntu-devel === anibal [n=anibal@debian/developer/anibal] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:16] tepsipakki: immutable being change by chattr === stu1 [n=stub@ppp-58.8.211.168.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #ubuntu-devel === carlos [n=carlos@canonical/launchpad/carlos] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:19] ok, immutable then.. but don't take that too seriously ;) === superm1 [n=superm1@ubuntu/member/superm1] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:21] I bet you'll get a flood of bugs with a read-only immutable /etc/apt/sources.list [08:21] back later === shiyee [n=Shiyee@homer.cs.aau.dk] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:23] or, reverse the logic; put distro-sources in s.l.d, and leave sources.list empty for the user :) === Fujitsu_ [n=william@c58-107-52-79.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ompaul [n=ompaul@freenode/staff/gnewsense.ompaul] has joined #ubuntu-devel === robitaille [i=robitail@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-devel === shiyee_ [n=Shiyee@homer.cs.aau.dk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === asac_ [n=asac@debian/developer/asac] has joined #ubuntu-devel === thekorn [n=thekorn@a89-182-28-89.net-htp.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === bdgraue [n=bdgraue@dyndsl-085-016-108-021.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === dholbach [n=daniel@i59F70E5E.versanet.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:41] good morning === glatzor [n=sebi@p57AEE482.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === viviersf [n=cain@196.44.1.98] has joined #ubuntu-devel === hunger [n=tobias@pd95b0676.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:11] who of you would be interested in doing ubuntu-dev mentoring? [09:11] it'd be nice to have some mentors available once I announce the new mentoring process === mvo [n=egon@p54A65B09.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === persia [n=persia@ubuntu/member/persia] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Arby [n=richard@shiny.york.ac.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === haggai [n=halls@credativ.bcnadsl.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Zdra [n=zdra@cable-85.28.95.83.coditel.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === iwan [n=iwan@dsl-242-119-127.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ivoks [n=ivoks@83-131-53-247.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-devel === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:45] !logs [09:46] Channel logs can be found at http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs === nuu [n=neuro@85-18-14-28.fastres.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Arby [n=richard@shiny.york.ac.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ivoks [n=ivoks@ubuntu/member/ivoks] has joined #ubuntu-devel === persia [n=persia@ubuntu/member/persia] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === seb128 [n=seb128@ubuntu/member/seb128] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:59] hi seb128 [09:59] hey pitti! === nuu [n=neuro@85-18-14-28.fastres.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:00] seb128: ah, http://merges.ubuntu.com/d/dbus/dbus_1.0.2-5.patch now separates the dbus Xsession.d script; that should get us rid of a few bugs :) === pitti merges [10:01] pitti: cool ;) === jsgotangco [n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:02] mvo: can you please remove the dbus-1-utils dependency from update-notifier? the package is going away (merged into dbus itself) [10:03] hey seb128 [10:03] hi dholbach === bonii [n=gsix@unaffiliated/bonii] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:04] TB meeting looks interesting. [10:05] pitti: sure [10:07] hahaha... http://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-clusterfuck [10:07] awesome [10:09] hehe [10:09] hey highvoltage === RadiantFire [n=ryan@upstream/dev/RadiantFire] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:09] good morning dholbach [10:09] highvoltage: I updated reception-data (with input of persia and TheMuso) [10:11] dholbach: excellent. I saw in the diffs that were emailed by launchpad. [10:11] super === pochu [n=emilio@94.Red-88-3-50.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === cassidy [n=cassidy@host-85-27-113-193.brutele.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel === HiddenWolf [n=HiddenWo@136.208.dynamic.phpg.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:20] pitti: the retracer seems to ignore #101926 (need-i386-retrace is set). could you please have a look? === jono [n=jono@ubuntu/member/jono] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:25] pitti: same for #81048 (but that one is probably too old :) [10:26] bug #101926 [10:26] Launchpad bug 101926 in update-notifier "update-notifier_apt-check" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/101926 [10:26] mvo: ValueError: URL does not contain DistroRelease: field [10:26] 05/21/07 09:42:55: retracing bug 101926 exit status: 1 [10:27] mvo: not sure if it works with the monolithic format [10:27] mvo: same for 81048 [10:27] no, it doesn't work with the edgy format [10:27] pitti: that's not the edgy format, that's people attaching the crash file from /var/crash rather than using apport to send the bug I think [10:27] ok, thanks [10:28] pitti: apport 0.80 changelog> POSIX sh should have '.' === TomaszD_ [n=tom@unaffiliated/tomaszd] has joined #ubuntu-devel === iwanvosloo [n=iwanvosl@dsl-242-119-127.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:31] Hobbsee: nice changelog entry on bug #115538 :p [10:31] Launchpad bug 115538 in dealer "Please sync dealer (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/115538 === Hobbsee wonders what she's gettign picked on now for, while LP loads [10:31] hehe [10:31] seb128: haha, yes. i blame debian. [10:31] ;) [10:32] seb128: fix debian, kthxbye. [10:32] Hobbsee: I'm doing the sync no need to bother ;) [10:32] seb128: hehe. you appear to trust me. strange person :P === Hobbsee is a green alien, so is clearly untrustworthy. === seb128 notes to not trust Hobbsee again === chand| [n=rsamson@linagoraberri.pck.nerim.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:33] seb128: and i do kde stuff. [10:34] seb128: and i'm different from everyone else, so couldnt be expected to be rational :P [10:34] shouldn't you be a blue alien then? [10:34] cjwatson: right, that seems to be a quirk of zsh; I quickly changed this when siretart used that script on his server, and now I fixed it harder [10:34] pitti: I would advise ignoring bugs due to using zsh as /bin/sh - that's definitely not recommended [10:35] Mithrandir: azure :P [10:35] bash really shouldn't be needed just for '' [10:35] Mithrandir: there are no other green aliens, anyway [10:35] '.' === mdz [n=mdz@yttrium.canonical.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:36] cjwatson: I don't have /bin/sh -> /bin/zsh. I only executed that script [10:36] siretart: well, we copy&pasted commands from it to your sh [10:36] yeah [10:37] siretart: but you ran the script with zsh, right? === jmg_ is now known as jmg [10:37] indeed [10:38] http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009695399/utilities/dot.html mandates '.' in a sh implementation - if zsh doesn't understand it, that's zsh's problem === Spads [n=spacehob@unaffiliated/spads] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:39] I didn't think zsh really claimed POSIX sh compatibility though [10:39] hmm. it seems that zsh's '.' command expects a full pathname to the script to source, and doesn't like it in the current directory [10:39] '. .alias' fails, but '. ~/.alias' works [10:40] ah, now that is actually a bash bug I think - '.' is supposed to use $PATH, not the current directory [10:40] according to your link, '.' is supposed to look in $PATH. I surely don't have '~' in my path [10:41] so if apport's relying on cwd, it should use '. ./file' [10:41] interesting [10:41] which would work in zsh as well :) [10:42] hey all whatever happened about upstart replacing cron? [10:43] jmg: that needs to be implemented in upstart. there has been a discussion on the upstart mailing list about that === zenrox [n=zenrox@pool-71-115-199-53.spknwa.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:49] siretart: hm, that's a really weird and nonintuitive thing, using $PATH for command line arguments [10:50] yay for Unix consistency :) === blackskad [n=blackska@d54C1A48C.access.telenet.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:50] pitti: seems to be a unix standard however.. I admit that this is news to me [10:51] siretart: hm, in this case I agree with bash TBH; sourcing something that could be anywhere in $PATH seems actively dangerous and error prone to me [10:52] hm, bash still looks at $PATH for the argument, though [10:52] pitti: I can imagine that there is somewhere a switch for zsh to enable this behavior [10:52] aah, so bash just 'adds' '.' to the $PATH for sourcing? that's nasty === pitti readjusts his future usage of . [10:53] does bash prepend or append '.' to $PATH for '.'? [10:53] no [10:53] erm, sorry [10:53] siretart: append [10:53] wow [10:54] this smells really fishy [10:55] pitti: '.' is analogous to normal command execution [10:55] IMO [10:55] hm, then we seem to have a completely different view about what sourcing is supposed to do [10:56] is librarianl.lp.net not working currently? [10:56] "execute the stuff in that file in the context of the current shell" is how I think of it [10:56] I have always regarded it as kind of #include for shell [10:56] and had expected to give a path to a file name to it, not a command [10:57] well, the path you give it doesn't have to be executable [10:57] right [10:58] I know of some things that rely on . looking in $PATH to useful effect [10:58] e.g. '. gettext.sh' === Keybuk [n=scott@quest.netsplit.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:04] tkamppeter: ghostscript FTBFSed again, still stumbling over gtk [11:05] pitti: what? [11:05] seb128: don't worry, gtk is fine, it just complains about not finding the gtk .pc (it doesn't build depend on gtk-dev and isn't meant to) [11:05] ah, k === pitti can hear seb128's "PHEW" here [11:06] :) === glatzor [n=sebi@p54967682.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:10] pitti, I have seen the Ghostscript problem. It is an upstream problem of the original GPL GS not being able to be compiled as libgs without GTK. ESP GS had fixed it and now I am moving this fix to upstream. Then I will make the Ubuntu package with an updated upstream tarball. [11:11] mvo: argh, u-n has a versioned depends on dbus-1-utils, so the Provides: won't be enough [11:12] tkamppeter: are you upstream for ghostscript? [11:14] pitti: I will upload a new u-n today, I think the -1-utils is really no longer needed [11:14] mvo: right, and the next dbus will have dbus-monitor anyway [11:15] mvo: today would be good, then I'll wait with the NEWing until that happened === pitti [n=pitti@ubuntu/member/pitti] has joined #ubuntu-devel === pitti [n=pitti@ubuntu/member/pitti] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:21] seb128: yay, things work well without the dbus Xsession.d script [11:22] \o/ [11:22] seb128: I'll add a preinst transition bit that removes an unmodified script on upgrade [11:22] pitti: GNOME works fine, but how is that going to work for other environments? [11:23] seb128: they need to depend on dbus-x11 [11:23] ok [11:23] Riddell, Hobbsee: do you know whether KDE needs a session dbus, and if so, will it start one by itself? or does it need /etc/X11/Xsession.d/75dbus_dbus-launch? [11:23] pitti: ok, I wil ldo it before lunch === pitti hugs mov === pitti hugs mvo, too === Hobbsee doesnt know === Hobbsee is envious of mov. === pitti gives Hobbsee the second hug of the day [11:24] :) [11:25] Hobbsee: an experiment: just move this script away, log into KDE and check whether things are still working [11:25] yay, double hug! [11:25] Hobbsee: at least in Gnome things work better than before === Hobbsee will have to try later [11:25] Hobbsee: or, simply check 'ps ux | grep dbus' whether you have a session dbus running [11:25] (before and after moving the script) === haggai [n=halls@credativ.bcnadsl.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:28] Mithrandir, yes, I have gotten SVN write access, as I was also developer of ESP Ghostscript (ESP GS was by 95 % done by Mike Sweet and me) and so with the ESP GS merger Mike and me got also merged into GPL GS. [11:30] pitti: KDE 3 doesn't seem to need it, and I can't think why it would need it. KDE 4 I'm almost certain will need it, I'm not sure if it has a way of starting it itself [11:30] pitti: why don't you want the dbus Xsession.d script? === glatzor [n=sebi@p54967682.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:32] Riddell: if dbus is started from gnome, it gets some additional environment variables that some programs rely on [11:32] Riddell: such as gnome-power-manager recognizing the keybindings for the power off button etc. [11:32] Riddell: this is of course a bug in those apps, but it's easier to fix like this [11:33] Riddell: if KDE4 needs it and doesn't start one on its own, we just need to add dbus-x11 to kubuntu-desktop, or make it a dependency of, say, kdebase [11:33] pitti: can bug #61730 be closed now? [11:33] Launchpad bug 61730 in update-notifier "No indication to the user that a core dump is in progress" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/61730 [11:33] pitti: and that brings in the Xsession.d/75dbus_dbus-launch script? won't that then break gnome again? [11:34] Riddell: yes, for the case that someone installs both KDE and Gnome in parallel [11:34] Riddell: as I said, it's not a good solution, but a quick one, and Debian split out the package, so I'd like to follow that [11:35] ok === Riddell wonders what starts /usr/bin/dbus-launch --exit-with-session /usr/bin/startkde [11:37] ah, that is the 75.. script === nuu [n=neuro@85-18-14-28.fastres.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === gizmo [n=gizmo@87.139.112.143] has joined #ubuntu-devel === thedonvaughn [n=jayson@unaffiliated/printk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === gon [n=fauconz@41.221.16.91] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:47] hellllllllo === gon [n=fauconz@41.221.16.91] has left #ubuntu-devel [] [11:48] Hobbsee: isn't the gtk2-engines-gtk-qt transitionnal package required for dapper upgrades? [11:49] seb128: errr....i'm not sure, i'd have to check that [11:50] seb128: yes. damn. [11:50] didnt think of that === micahcowan [n=micahcow@ubuntu/member/micahcowan] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:51] Hobbsee: I've removed the binary from gutsy for now since it's not longer built from the source package [11:51] feel free to add it again if it's required [11:51] seb128: right. [11:51] Provides should really be versionned [11:51] seb128: would have thought a replaces: on the engines gutsy package would suffice, no? [11:52] so we would not have to keep all those dummy packages only for upgrades [11:52] er, with the dapper version, presumably? or the version where it changed? [11:52] Hobbsee: well, it'll not install gtk-qt-engine when you try to update gtk2-engines-gtk-qt on dapper [11:52] seb128: we need dummy packages for upgrades anyway, regardless of versioned provides [11:52] pitti: why? [11:53] until the next LTS [11:53] right, because Provides are not versionned [11:53] seb128: if you have a installed, and then a is removed from the archive and b Provides: a, then apt- won't automatically install b [11:53] pitti: then surely that's a bug in apt? [11:53] Hobbsee: not really IMHO [11:54] Hobbsee: first, it would be pretty expensive to guess which package to install, and also pretty error prone [11:54] pitti: I doubt you'll be able to upgrade without using the dist-upgrader, but no need to make it harder than we have to. [11:54] pitti: that's because the provides is not newer than the real package because it's not versionned, no? [11:54] Hobbsee: for example, if there are several replacements [11:54] good point [11:54] Hobbsee: that'd break if I had, say, a custom mta installed locally and apt would continually try to install another one because it didn't see my custom one in a repo. [11:54] seb128: no, an upgrade will update the versions of installed pacakges, not install new packages out of thin air [11:55] seb128: right, that too [11:55] pitti: so the problem is not the versionning, is that we need a new field "deprecates" [11:55] seb128: with versioned provides, apt could grab the latest available one, but I'm not sure whether this woudl break anything else [11:55] which means "install that package instead of this old one" === Keybuk considers an evil plan [11:56] I think it's stupid to create zillion of dummy packages for that [11:56] seb128: and if two packages deprecate the old one? [11:56] I'm going to modify bzr to send the bazaar folks an e-mail, instead of nagging me about bzr-gtk being out of date [11:56] that should really we a package field [11:56] seb128: well, keeps us from renaming more pacakges than we really have to :) [11:56] Mithrandir: point [11:56] pitti: don't use the "deprecate" then [11:56] pitti: there is plenty of case where we keep a dummy package just for upgrade [11:56] seb128: it should be something that points from the old package to the new one, not the other way round [11:56] that's cluttering the apt index, the archive, etc [11:57] seb128: I agree [11:57] pitti: the old package you can't update [11:57] usually you upload new packages, not old ones ;) [11:57] right, that's why we currently use transitional packages :) [11:57] whoops [11:57] which sucks [11:58] well, it's the renaming of packages that sucks === jml [n=jml@121.44.219.152] has joined #ubuntu-devel === zenrox [n=zenrox@pool-71-115-199-53.spknwa.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === pochu [n=emilio@ubuntu/member/pochu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === asac [n=asac@debian/developer/asac] has joined #ubuntu-devel === shiyee [n=Shiyee@homer.cs.aau.dk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === racarr [n=robb@pool-71-163-244-36.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === zul [n=chuck@CPE0006258ec6c1-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === hile [n=hile@nblzone-240-170.nblnetworks.fi] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Sarah [n=user@14.5.233.220.exetel.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mpt [n=mpt@canonical/launchpad/mpt] has joined #ubuntu-devel === macd [n=d@adsl-35-254-87.msy.bellsouth.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Lutin [n=Lutin@ubuntu/member/lutin] has joined #ubuntu-devel === _TomB [n=tomb@host86-147-88-201.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === gouki [n=gouki@ubuntu/member/gouki] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jdub [n=jdub@home.waugh.id.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === elmo [n=james@83-216-156-21.jamest747.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === zakame [n=zakame@ubuntu/member/zakame] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Halcy0n [n=halcy0n@pdpc/supporter/active/Halcy0n] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jdong [n=jdong@ubuntu/member/jdong] has joined #ubuntu-devel === saispo [n=saispo@ryu.zarb.org] has joined #ubuntu-devel === illovae [n=illovae@unaffiliated/illovae] has joined #ubuntu-devel === blueyed [n=daniel@pdpc/supporter/active/blueyed] has joined #ubuntu-devel === kierzko [i=kierzko@xdsl-563.lodz.dialog.net.pl] has joined #ubuntu-devel === AndrewB [n=andy@ubuntu/member/pdpc.student.AndrewB] has joined #ubuntu-devel === siretart [i=siretart@ubuntu/member/siretart] has joined #ubuntu-devel === stgraber [n=stgraber@ubuntu/member/stgraber] has joined #ubuntu-devel === bhale [n=bhale@unaffiliated/tseng] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Chipzz [i=chipzz@safehex.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel === [PUPPETS] Gonzo [n=gonzo@80.69.47.16] has joined #ubuntu-devel === asw [n=asw@karuna.med.harvard.edu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === G0SUB [i=ghoseb@ubuntu/member/gosub] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jvw_ [i=jeroen@220pc220.sshunet.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mat|work [n=mat@igoan/mat] has joined #ubuntu-devel === torkel [i=torkel@matilda.hpc2n.umu.se] has joined #ubuntu-devel === bytee [n=byte@fedora/byte] has joined #ubuntu-devel === sjoerd [n=sjoerd@simons.xs4all.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Traxer|on [i=traxer@shell6.powershells.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:58] I don't get what why a new "deprecates" would not work [11:58] if it would be made easier, it would happen a lot more often, I figure, and create more problems [11:58] seb128: if it would be used carefully, it certainly would [11:58] you can create mess with transitional packages as well === zerbero_1 [n=jga@pD9E636D1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:59] seb128: and you don't even need a new field for this; C/R/P is meant for this purpose [11:59] you just need to teach apt to automatically replace those [11:59] well it doesn't work [11:59] but I can think of use cases where this would break [11:59] (alternatives, like gs-esp vs. gs-gpl or so) [11:59] if you have gaim on edgy and apt-get install gaim with gutsy source it'll not install pidgin without a transitional package [12:00] right [12:00] it'll would be mainly for renaming [12:00] not for packages replaced by something else [12:01] still, having a transitional package in debian/control instead of a new field isn't that much more work IMHO [12:02] no, it's just ugly and increase apt index noise [12:02] right [12:04] it's an utter arse if you ever want to rename back though [12:04] the trouble with transitions like that is that they are permanent [12:04] consider the esd/polypaudio crack change === Hobbsee begins to think this whole LTS thing is overrated. [12:06] Hobbsee: well, LTS->LTS upgrades are kind of an important use case [12:06] true [12:06] LTS is a touchy and difficult subject. [12:06] but in gutsy+1 we can drop a *lot* of transition bits :) === Fujitsu [n=william@ubuntu/member/fujitsu] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:06] :D [12:06] s/in/after/ [12:07] highvoltage: how so, in particular? i wasnt aware of anything beyond a "having to keep all the transitional packages" POV [12:07] pitti: no, we can't [12:07] since gutsy+1 is the LTS, it needs all the transitions bits [12:07] we can drop some in gutsy+2 === mc44 [n=mc44@unaffiliated/mc44] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:07] Keybuk: s/in/after/ :) [12:09] Hobbsee: I agree, keeping the transitional bits for so long is the main pain ATM; the rest is mainly political, I guess ;) === spacey [n=herman@ubuntu/member/spacey] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:16] oh well, i know for next time, at least. === mbiebl [n=michael@e180069225.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Arby [n=richard@shiny.york.ac.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:23] Rejected: [12:23] Unhandled exception processing upload: HTTP Error 502: Proxy Error [12:23] ?? [12:24] seb128: you recently saw something like this as well, right? [12:24] pitti: yeah, syncing was broken this way and it automagically fixed (or somebody did) === Arby [n=richard@shiny.york.ac.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:25] pitti: oh, no, that was Bad Gateway for me [12:25] you get that when uploading? === hoora_ [i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-4e1adcfd980bd396] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:26] seb128: yes === pitti asks in #c-s [12:27] pitti, new 0ubuntu3 ghostscript packages are uploaded to the usual place. They contain the needed upstream fix. Can you please upload them? Thanks. [12:27] tkamppeter: sure [12:31] tkamppeter: hm, the changelog says 'new upstream release', but it's actually not === Monk-e [n=guido@c529dd229.cable.wanadoo.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:31] tkamppeter: it's -0ubuntu3 and uses the same orig.tar.gz as before, and no debian/patches/svn-fixes.diff either === agoliveira [n=adilson@201.47.76.202.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:31] hi adilson [12:32] Mithrandir: good morning [12:36] can I tempt anybody to join the ubuntu-dev mentors? I'd like to announce the new process soon and it'd be nice to have some more people who are willing to take on contributor or two and help them on their first steps :) [12:38] pitti, the source tarball is a new SVN snapshot, only the name is the same. I have replaced the _source.changes file by one with "-sa" now. [12:39] tkamppeter: that doesn't work, you have to bump the version name [12:40] indeed, the .dscs for ubuntu2 and 3 have a different md5sum for the orig.tar.gz [12:40] tkamppeter: the old orig.tar.gz is already in the archive, it cannot be overwritten with a new one === ogra-classmate [n=teacher@p548AFA25.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === cprov [n=cprov@canonical/launchpad/cprov] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:40] pitti, so I have to change the upstream version name for a new SVN release. How are the conventions, so that I can start over with the right versioning scheme? [12:40] tkamppeter: if the changes are relatively small, doing the svn fixes in debian/patches might be preferable [12:41] tkamppeter: the other convention would be something like 8.60.dfsg.2 or 8.60.dfsg.1+svn20070523 [12:41] tkamppeter: the latter is more common, but since the old orig.tar.gz has an distro specific suffix anyway (.1) you could just as well increase that [12:42] And if I go for 8.60.dfsg.1+svn20070523 how should I name the final 8.60 release? [12:43] tkamppeter: hmm [12:43] tkamppeter: in retrospective, you should have used 8.60.dfsg~beta1 or so [12:44] tkamppeter: now, just going to .2 should be fine [12:44] tkamppeter: oh, btw, what did you have to remove for DFSG compliance? [12:45] So then I will take 8.60.dfsg.1+svn7997 for now and 8.60.dfsg.2 for final? [12:45] This is already done by the Debian folks, they remove Resource/Cmap because they consider that non-free. [12:49] tkamppeter: sounds good [12:49] tkamppeter: ah, is that a binary file without source, or sth. like that? [12:50] pitti, what do you mean? === gicmo [n=gicmo@p5491FE58.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:51] tkamppeter: for example, some upstreams ship PDF files in their GPLed tarballs without a 'source' (such as an OpenOffice or LaTeX document) [12:51] tkamppeter: don't worry for now, I was just curious [12:51] tkamppeter: btw, I changed all the seeds from gs-esp-x to ghostscript-x yesterday [12:51] No, the problem is that the CMap directory contains files with licenses for only verbatim redistribution. [12:52] tkamppeter: I'll do the meta uploads and the removals once the new gs is actually in gutsy [12:52] tkamppeter: ah, I see === Spads [n=spacehob@unaffiliated/spads] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Zdra [n=zdra@195.244.169.43] has joined #ubuntu-devel === pkl [n=phillip@lougher.demon.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === pkl is now known as pkl_ === glatzor [n=sebi@p54967682.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:02] pitti, now I redownloaded 0ubuntu2 from launchpad and did the standard uupdate approach to get to the new source tarball. [01:03] The new version will be 8.60.dfsg.2-0ubuntu1. Will the archive accept this one? [01:06] tkamppeter: yes, that's fine; the final version will be .3 (or .4 or whatever) then? [01:08] Yes, so with every SVN update I will simply bump that number by 1. So if the final of 8.60 will take some time but we need the bug fixes they do earlier it can end up in 10 or 20 ... [01:09] For later versions I will directly start with something like 8.61~svnXXXX. Can one then use 8.61 for the final? [01:10] tkamppeter: yes, you can [01:10] tkamppeter: ~ is a special operator introduced for exactly this use case [01:10] tkamppeter: it means 'smaller than the version before it' [01:11] tkamppeter: so 1~1 << 1~2 << 1 [01:12] Thank you very much, making use of this for the ghostscript package is not possible any more, but I will use it in later, similar use cases. [01:13] this means you can have positive version numbers smaller than 0. [01:14] that's...stuffed. === highvoltage so doesn't understand that [01:14] yes, you can have negative versions :) [01:14] 0~1 < 0 === jono [n=jono@ubuntu/member/jono] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:14] aaah [01:15] pitti, packages are on their way to my web space now: 8.60.dfsg.2-0ubuntu1. === pitti -> lunch [01:16] tkamppeter: will take a look later [01:16] pitti, thanks for all, tell me as soon as you have any questions or results. === mvo_ [n=egon@p54A65451.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === somerville32 [n=somervil@ubuntu/member/somerville32] has joined #ubuntu-devel === TeTeT [n=spindler@modemcable178.77-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Spads_ [n=spacehob@yttrium.canonical.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:28] pitti: you might want to merge hal 0.5.9-3 (on incoming now i guess), it also uses a real init script now [01:30] pitti, upload of the new source files has completed. [01:31] slomo: doesn't HAL depend on D-BUS anymore then? === highvoltage [n=highvolt@196.1.61.32] has joined #ubuntu-devel === EtienneG [n=etienne@ubuntu/member/EtienneG] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:37] Keybuk: it still uses dbus... but stuff like hal and avahi got moved from /etc/dbus-1/event.d scripts to real init scripts [01:37] any particular reason? [01:38] Keybuk: afaik only consistence... every other daemon is in /etc/init.d and you could disable it with rc-conf for example [01:38] fair enough === Spads [n=spacehob@unaffiliated/spads] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Knightlust [n=Dax@ubuntu/member/knightlust] has joined #ubuntu-devel === sky_walkie [i=czzhrd02@xdsl-563.lodz.dialog.net.pl] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:57] tkamppeter: I'm back === pkl_ [n=phillip@unaffiliated/pkl/x-764568] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jwendell [n=wendell@ubuntu/member/wendell] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:59] slomo: yep, will do that === ogra-classmate [n=teacher@p548AFA25.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:02] pitti, all files are in place for a new upload now I hope the version numbering is correct now. [02:03] tkamppeter: yep, it looks good; downloading right now === persia [n=persia@ubuntu/member/persia] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:09] slomo: that leaves us with dhcdbd, NetworkManager, and system-tools-backends === pbn [i=pbn@nitro.geekshells.org] has joined #ubuntu-devel === afflux [i=fnord@pentabarf.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:13] does anybody know why s2disk (uswsusp) doesn't support screen width/height (-x and -y) params anymore ? that breaks hibernate.sh in acpi-support 0.95 [02:14] because it's not needed? [02:14] acpi-support should just be fixed not to pass them [02:15] pitti: i guess mbiebl will care for NM and dhcdbd soon... for s-t-b let's ask the debian maintainer :) [02:15] I uploaded uswsusp, should I fix acpi-support? [02:16] StevenK: well from what i can tell, you could remove the whole usplash.conf checking if-fi block altogether from hibernate.sh [02:17] ie just check for -x on s2disk, and run it without further ado [02:17] nuu: Would you mind filing a bug against acpi-support if you haven't already? [02:17] sure, will do [02:17] nuu: Thanks! [02:17] yw === hggdh [n=hggdh@82.sub-70-197-67.myvzw.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jsgotangco [n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-devel === antonym55 [n=antony@219.134.215.98] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ogra-classmate watches evo filtering 22000 messages on his classmate ... [02:30] it can? === blackskad [n=blackska@d54C1A48C.access.telenet.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:30] jsgotangco: how many mails to the center of a evolution core dump? [02:31] jsgotangco: sure [02:31] it just gets extremly slow the first time it has to pull down all the imap headers [02:31] i mean is it like functioning as expected or awfully slow [02:31] ahh [02:31] but once thats done it behaves [02:32] ahh but would kids be expected to use evo? heh [02:32] seb128: one thing i always notice is that evo seems to queue *every* click even if its unresponsive for a minute or so ... we should limit this queue [02:32] jsgotangco: And would kids be expected to have 22k messages? :) [02:33] jsgotangco: no idea, its an app we ship so i need to test if it works [02:33] pochu, kids reading lkml? [02:33] kylem: nice kids, then :) [02:33] kylem: i read it when i was 16, that is why i am brain damaged [02:33] using my personal inbox and seeing it work *somehow* is enough of a stresstest i think ;) [02:33] ogra-classmate: stop clicking like a mad man when the app doesn't react ;) [02:34] seb128: i dont, but sometimes i'm in the overview list without noticing and scroll up or down [02:34] poor kids, i'll make sure my 5 year old won't use one then heh === jsgotangco hides [02:34] so it tries to display 50 msgs in a row [02:35] having the queue limited to the last 5 or so would increase performance imho === cpro1 [n=cprov@200-171-140-32.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #ubuntu-devel === eggauah [n=daniel@201.82.11.220] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:42] StevenK: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/acpi-support/+bug/116411 [02:42] Launchpad bug 116411 in acpi-support "wrong s2disk parameters invoked by hibernate.sh in acpi-support 0.95 when /etc/usplash.conf is present" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] [02:42] nuu: Excellent, thanks. [02:42] you're very welcome [02:44] tkamppeter: uploaded, thank you! === cypherbios [n=cypher@ubuntu/member/cypherbios] has joined #ubuntu-devel === EtienneG [n=etienne@ubuntu/member/EtienneG] has joined #ubuntu-devel === aquarius [n=chatzill@ajax.mills-reeve.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:00] Is there some documentation somewhere on what services packages.ubuntu.com provides (i.e., what /cgi-bin/download.pl does, etc)? Or, more particularly, can I jump to "the latest version of vlc in feisty" through some nice URL like p.u.c/feisty/graphics/vlc/download without getting the vlc page and parsing it myself for the deb link? [03:01] aquarius: You probably want http://launcpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vlc [03:01] persia: ah, not really; what I want to do is point someone at a "download this package by clicking here" link which won't break if there's a patch release. [03:02] So http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/download.pl?arch=i386&file=pool%2Funiverse%2Fv%2Fvlc%2Fvlc_0.8.6.release-0ubuntu4_i386.deb&md5sum=f10ad4197a89c79069a7a9eab73a5f0d&arch=i386&type=main (the get-a-deb link from p.u.c) is no good because if there's a new release of that package inside feisty, that link won't be to the most recent version. [03:04] and launchpad also links directly, so http://librarian.launchpad.net/6873078/vlc_0.8.6.release-0ubuntu4_i386.deb as a link is no good either. === cr3 [n=marc@pdpc/supporter/bronze/cr3] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Monk-e [n=guido@c529dd229.cable.wanadoo.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freeflying [n=freeflyi@ubuntu/member/freeflying] has joined #ubuntu-devel === tkamppeter_ [n=till@bl8-123-136.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #ubuntu-devel === zul [n=chuck@CPE0006258ec6c1-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:10] I don't know whether the source to packages.ubuntu.com is available anywhere; I looked, but couldn't find it. [03:13] it's the same as packages.debian.org [03:13] Keybuk: yeah, but #debian are being unresponsive and I can't find source for p.d.o either :) [03:14] probably in their websuite source somewhere [03:15] try mailing the debian-www e-mail lsit [03:15] it must be available since someone else set up packages.ubuntu.com [03:15]