[07:40] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-mobile) hmm, I wonder if we can drop the osso-gwconnect dependency, as bluez itself provides that functionality now.
[07:41] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-mobile) it'd require some source code changes, but should be relativetly easy.
[07:49] (tko/#ubuntu-mobile) Mithrandir: can you ask on the mailing list? I can then forward it to the gwconnect maintainer
[07:51] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-mobile) yes, I was planning to.
[07:51] (tko/#ubuntu-mobile) there was some connectivity stuff that was moving towards bluez, but I can't recall what exactly it was
[07:51] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-mobile) he suggested it in a comment to a blog post of James Henstridge about half a year ago, so I wouldn't think he'd be opposed to it
[07:51] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-mobile) http://blogs.gnome.org/view/jamesh/2006/10/5/0
[08:04] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-mobile) there, sent.  I Cc-ed Johan Hedberg.
[08:08] (tko/#ubuntu-mobile) ah, cool, saved me the trouble :)
[08:08] (tko/#ubuntu-mobile) ok, time to go to the office :-/
[08:08] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-mobile) given he's upstream of the code and I reference his comment, I only found it polite to do so.
[08:09] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-mobile) hmm, hildon-fm seems to need a bit of love in order to compile here.
[08:09] (tko/#ubuntu-mobile) Mithrandir: yes, hildon-fm requires exporting some private stuff from gtk
[08:10] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-mobile) see you
[08:10] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-mobile) I've ifdef-ed out the tap-and-hold bits, but it seems to be caught up in some file chooser bits.
[12:56] <PP3-Man> how difficult is it to compile a kernel module in Ubuntu Mobile?
[12:57] <PP3-Man> Hello?
[12:58] <agoliveira> PP3-Man:Hi. When it came along, should be no different than the usual.
[12:58] <agoliveira> s/cames/comes
[01:18] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-mobile) mdz: do you have the moderator password for the mobile list?
[02:05] <mdz> Mithrandir: I do, yes.  I tend to it pretty much every day
[02:05] <mdz> Mithrandir: I'm happy to share that responsibility with you if you're willing
[02:05] <ferulo> mdz, what python policy is ubuntu following?
[02:06] <mdz> ferulo: essentially the debian python policy
[02:06] <ferulo> the latest one?
[02:06] <mdz> further to that, we make efforts to, e.g., ensure that all python modules in main use python-central or similar, to ease transitions
[02:06] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-mobile) mdz: I'd be happy to
[02:06] <mdz> ferulo: if something significant has changed just recently, I'm not aware of it yet
[02:07] <mdz> ferulo: doko is our python czar
[02:07] <ferulo> I guess that our maemo python bindings packages doesn't comply that policy at all:
[02:07] <ferulo> https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/packages/?root=pymaemo
[02:08] <doko> ferulo: are all these packages maintained independently?
[02:09] <ferulo> currently yes, they are a garage project
[02:09] <ferulo> and they are available on the extras repository
[02:09] <ferulo> not in our official images
[02:09] <doko> looks like most of them are in the ubuntu archive as well
[02:09] <ferulo> however they are included on sardine and our upcoming releases
[02:10] <ferulo> well, most of them are "empty" packages just including patches
[02:10] <ferulo> but some of them modified upstream stuff so we have our own tree
[02:10] <ferulo> (and python-hildon) is 100% new stuff
[02:11] <doko> is there a reason why your upstream changes can't go into the ubuntu packages?
[02:13] <ferulo> well, for the python runtime we have specific patches for low memory/cpu devices
[02:13] <ferulo> for gtk... as we are shipping a modified version of gtk, some non-upstream changes are also needed
[02:19] <ferulo> gnome-python is a subset of upstream gnome-python bindings, only gnome-vfs and gconf
[02:20] <lool> ferulo: Indeed, I had a look at python-hildon, and I don't think it's compliant with the second version of the debian python policy
[02:21] <ferulo> what tools does that 2nd version of debian python policy require?
[02:21] <lool> ferulo: Basically, the version 2 encourages packages to avoid any hardcoding of the Python versions, and encourages supporting multiple Python versions at the same time
[02:21] <lool> ferulo: For example, instead of building public Python extension for a fixed version of python, you build them for "all currently supported python versions"
[02:22] <lool> Which is returned by the pyversions tool
[02:22] <lool> ferulo: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy gives a good overview of the required changes
[02:23] <lool> There are two competing implementations of the Python Policy support infrastructure: python-central and python-support; they are hooked in the build process in approximatively the same way, but they have subtle differences which you probably don't need to care about
[02:23] <ferulo> #
[02:23] <ferulo> Build-Depends on "debhelper (>= 5.0.38)".
[02:23] <ferulo> #
[02:23] <ferulo> Add a Build-Depends on python-central (>= 0.5.6).
[02:24] <ferulo> that debhelper is going to be a problem to us for following debian python policy :(
[02:24] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-mobile) ferulo: why is debhelper 5 a problem?
[02:24] <lool> (One small warning, the python-support documentation tends to suggest doing things which are not compatible with python-central; I recommend sticking to the general guidelines instead of following the specialized python-support advice, for example use a debian/pycompat file)
[02:25] <ferulo> currently for sardine/our internal integration is
[02:25] <ferulo> but let me try
[02:25] <lool> ferulo: debhelper isn't too much of a problem I think
[02:25] <doko> ferulo: for ubuntu we prefer to use python-central
[02:25] <lool> ferulo: Basically, Python stuff moved away from Debhelper, and you don't need to call "dh_python" anymore
[02:26] <lool> doko: haha :)
[02:26] <lool> ferulo: So I expect it will work with older Debhelper too
[02:26] <doko> lool: no haha
[02:26] <ferulo> oh, nice
[02:26] <ferulo> I would try then to convert those packages to python-central
[02:27] <lool> doko: Perhaps a small bitter chuckle?
[02:28] <doko> lool: =)
[02:29] <lool> doko: (I added the python policy stuff and python-central preference to <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/MaemoPackagingCleanup>)
[02:31] <mdz> lool: thanks
[06:14] <adilson> Mithrandir: If you have a few minutes to spare, I would like to discuss a few quick issues, if you please.
[06:24] <gotnix> hey. Can someone if possible tell me what exactly will the ume be able to run on?
[06:25] <gotnix> I'm hoping that it extends to smart phones such as the qtek. and so on
[07:04] <gotnix> hello
[07:05] <adilson> gotnix: We are still too in the beginning of the project to be able to tell anything for sure but AFAICT, the idea is to have everything from the desktop.
[07:06] <gotnix> thats what i thought? which leads me to the question of why?
[07:07] <gotnix> If there is already ubuntu for the desktop why make another edition called mobile
[07:07] <gotnix> I'm not against it. I"m very excited about the project.. and have high hopes (hoping it extends to the mobile device market, pda's etc)
[07:09] <adilson> gotnix: because the requirements for the hardware are different. The UI has to have specific features like support for small screens and touch. The kernel has to fit those requirements also and so on...
[07:10] <gotnix> Meaning if that is going to be a possibility it might not be anywhere in the immediate future.
[07:10] <gotnix> okay... fair enough. Small steps I can only hope Ubuntu will make its way to the pda market eventually
[07:11] <adilson> gotnix: The schedule is to have the first version lauched at the same time as the next desktop version: october.
[07:12] <gotnix> yeah i read about simultaneous launching of the ume with gutsy. but I mean for pda's and so on. 
[07:15] <adilson> gotnix:Our first target are devices like x86 webpads. Things like PDAs are different beasts. Of course we want to cover them also but can't say right now when.
[07:16] <gotnix> Oh. Okay. That was what iw as asking initially. My apologies for asking the question wrong i guess
[07:16] <gotnix> Are you apart of the development team btw? I'm a blogger and i was just trying to garner further information before doing a blog entry
[07:22] <gotnix> well are you?
[07:23] <adilson> gotnix: Yes, I'm in the dev team.
[07:25] <gotnix> K. thanks for all the info just wanna make sure my source is a viable / valuable one. mind if i use your name in the blog entry i'm gonna do?
[07:28] <adilson> gotnix: Not at all.
[07:28] <gotnix> Thanks alot man. Thanks for the dime
[07:31] <adilson> gotnix:No problem.
[10:01] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-mobile) adilson: I'm here now.
[10:02] <adilson> Mithrandir: fine. Can I go over a few itens with you?
[10:02] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-mobile) sure
[10:02] <adilson> Mithrandir:Did you start to check the osso-gw-connect problem?
[10:04] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-mobile) not really, hildon-fm doesn't compile as-is
[10:05] <adilson> Mithrandir:Fine. Well, I did and I was thinking, for now, just keep it as is and ignore the functions that calls the proprietary stuff. What do you think?
[10:07] (tko/#ubuntu-mobile) I think if you skip the gwconnect stuff, you'll only miss the bottommost icon in the filechooser which would be your paired bluetooth device
[10:09] (tko/#ubuntu-mobile) OTOH if you already have the UI for pairing with BT devices, changing the code to use the bluez APIs instead would be nice
[10:09] <adilson> Yes, the idea would be change for bluez I was thinking if it worth the trouble do it right now.
[10:10] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-mobile) I think just note it somewhere and move on
[10:10] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-mobile) I'd like to do a first sweep so we have something that can display a hildon desktop in an xnest, then we fix all the missing bits and brokenness
[10:11] <adilson> I tought the same: go into bluez right now would delay the whole thing quite a bit.
[10:13] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-mobile) agreed.
[10:13] <adilson> Mithrandir: Great. Thanks.
[10:19] <adilson> Mithrandir:another thing. Can you get me some taime tomorrow to put up that todo?
[10:19] <adilson> s/taime/time
[10:19] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-mobile) get you some time as in?
[10:20] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-mobile) add anything you see to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/MaemoPackagingCleanup
[10:20] <adilson> adilson:as in chat with me for some time tomorrow.
[10:21] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-mobile) sure, just catch me when you're ready.
[10:21] <adilson> Mithrandir: Cool. Thanks.
[11:05] <adilson> Mithrandir: Is there a way to checkout all the components under ~ubuntu-mobile?
[11:35] <lool> I can a snippet to list bzr branches for a launchpad people page if you like
[11:35] <lool> Hmm too late