[12:23] <pochu> dabaR: to /usr/share/applications/
[12:28] <dabaR> pochu: I meant in the source package.
[12:28] <dabaR> ... directory structure.
[12:28] <pochu> Night MOTUs and MOTU padawans! :)
[12:28] <dabaR> night.
[12:28] <pochu> dabaR: doesn't matter. It can be in debian/, or in data/
[12:28] <pochu> or in other places.
[12:29] <dabaR> OK, thank you.
[12:29] <pochu> yw
[12:31] <persia> dabaR: When adding new files, it's best to put them in debian/ if possible.  This makes the distribution patches only be to one directory, and it's easier to see what is local and what is upstream.
[12:33] <dabaR> persia: do you know exactly what to do with a <package>.install to make one of its files install to a specific directory?
[12:33] <nixternal> plucker is garbage
[12:34] <nixternal> if we merge from Debian, it is a useless cause for GUI users
[12:34] <LaserJock> dabaR: you should read some up in the Ubuntu Packaging Guide or Debian New Maintainers Guide
[12:34] <LaserJock> or even look at a program you know has one
[12:34] <dabaR> OK, I guess shortcuts are bad:)
[12:35] <dabaR> I will do this later, thanks.
[12:35] <LaserJock> well no, it's a matter of teaching you where to go for these things
[12:35] <LaserJock> the general syntax is:
[12:35] <LaserJock> file.desktop usr/share/applications/
[12:35] <LaserJock> where file.desktop is the path to the desktop in the source
[12:36] <persia> nixternal: :)
[12:36] <nixternal> hrmm..so if I(we) do this merge, there will be no plucker-desktop...good news is I can close one bug though by adding a patch :)
[12:36] <nixternal> plucker is dead
[12:37] <persia> nixternal: You can also mark the wx2.4Migration done, as it doesn't have a GUI anymore.  Are you sure you don't want to move to a snapshot?
[12:40] <nixternal> a snapshot of what?
[12:40] <nixternal> there hasn't been any dev work to plucker for 2 years now
[12:40] <nixternal> unless they are working somewhere top secret
[12:41] <nixternal> I am going to give that patch a try
[12:42] <nixternal> actually, I am going to eat, and then hack on plucker
[12:42] <persia> nixternal: http://www.plkr.org/snapshots/plucker_snapshot.tar.gz  I took a CVS snapshot for freqtweak (with similar lack of work for years) and it looks better - upstream just never released the final version.
[12:42] <nixternal> hrmm..ya I might give that a try then..thanks for that!
[12:45] <ajmitch> hey jml 
[12:46] <jml> ajmitch: good morning
[12:50] <lionel> TheMuso: arround ?
[12:50] <TheMuso> lionel: Yes.
[12:50] <lionel> I checked my patch, and it works here :-(
[12:50] <TheMuso> What version of the package are you patching against?
[12:51] <lionel> which version of wu-ftpd did you use ?
[12:51] <TheMuso> The one from sid.
[12:51] <lionel> Debian version 2.6.2-26
[12:51] <lionel> (grab from DaD)
[12:51] <TheMuso> ah no.
[12:51] <lionel> ah...
[12:51] <TheMuso> sorry, my fault.
[12:51] <lionel> you dget .dsc ?
[12:52] <lionel> no problem :)
[12:57] <TheMuso> lionel: Uploaded.
[12:57] <lionel> TheMuso: thanks!
[01:02] <PriceChild> Hey persia, uploaded a new one which I think will fix "hopefully" everything.
[01:03] <persia> PriceChild: Thanks a lot.  Looking now...
[01:12] <pschulz01> Morning.. question.. how do I use the <packagename>.install files properly?
[01:12] <TheMuso> pschulz01: What build system is being used to build the package?
[01:12] <pschulz01> I have a multi-binary package/control file.
[01:13] <pschulz01> I have used 'dh_make' to set everything up.
[01:13] <pschulz01> Howdy TheMuso !
[01:13] <TheMuso> pschulz01: Did you explicitly tell dh_make to use cdbs?
[01:13] <pschulz01> ? no
[01:13] <TheMuso> If not, you are using debhelper. To use the .install files, you need to use dh_install.
[01:14] <TheMuso> Which goes in the install target.
[01:14] <TheMuso> It will read all *.install files and do its thing.
[01:14] <TheMuso> the manpage tells you how to make a .install file.
[01:14] <pschulz01> The dh_install man page talks about building and copying from debian/tmp
[01:14] <TheMuso> Yes.
[01:14] <TheMuso> Thats what .install files are for.
[01:15] <pschulz01> .. but I get debian/<name-of-first-binary-package>
[01:15] <TheMuso> You run make install or whatever into a temporary location, then you use dh_install to move everything into the proper packages.
[01:15] <TheMuso> so make install DESTDIR=debian/tmp and then dh_install does the rest, using the files in debian/tmp.
[01:15] <pschulz01> The source uses the GNU auto tools..
[01:16] <TheMuso> But you said that it was a multi-binary package?
[01:16] <pschulz01> So I use './configure --prefix=/usr'
[01:16] <TheMuso> RAOF: Hey there. Just took care of your pyinotify merge.
[01:16] <TheMuso> pschulz01: That should have already been done for you in debian/rules.
[01:16] <RAOF> TheMuso: Yay.
[01:17] <LaserJock> I got a quick shell problem, I've got a directory full of files with spaces in the names, how can I get rid of the spaces?
[01:17] <pschulz01> TheMuso: Well. there were a whole lot of other options that were messing things up.. (architecture etc.)
[01:17] <StevenK> LaserJock: qmv 
[01:17] <TheMuso> LaserJock: for file in *; do mv "$file" `echo "$file" | tr ' ' '_'`; done
[01:18] <StevenK> TheMuso: Learn about $()
[01:18] <TheMuso> pschulz01: Right.
[01:18] <RAOF> And I've almost got a Sid VM so I can check that the python-versions bug applies to Debian!
[01:18] <TheMuso> StevenK: ??
[01:18] <pschulz01> I want to spilt the result of the build into a collection of packages, and the *.install' files seem to be be the most sensible method.
[01:18] <TheMuso> StevenK: Is that more posix compliant or something?
[01:19] <LaserJock> TheMuso: hmm, that gave me a whole lot of _. I was trying to compress the names
[01:19] <TheMuso> LaserJock: Oh.
[01:19] <StevenK> TheMuso: $() can be nested. ` can't.
[01:19] <TheMuso> Well instead of tr ' ' '_' you could do tr -d ' '
[01:20] <TheMuso> StevenK: Aaaaah!
[01:20] <LaserJock> TheMuso: genius!!
[01:21] <alfredoj69> :)
[01:21] <pschulz01> I'll be back later..
[01:21] <pschulz01> TheMuso: Cheers.
[01:21] <TheMuso> pschulz01: np.
[01:22] <TheMuso> Ok... That clears the merge qeue for now.
[01:25] <persia> Hurrah!
[01:28] <TheMuso> persia: You on uus and the ml for it yet?
[01:33] <persia> TheMuso: UUS, but not the ML.  I subscribe to the bugs I touch, and use LP to pick new ones.
[01:33] <TheMuso> persia: Right.
[01:34] <persia> I like bugmail, but not for things I haven't looked at yet, and might never touch.
[01:34] <TheMuso> Fair enough.
[01:34] <TheMuso> I'm on a few teams, so I am kinda used to it now.
[01:35] <TheMuso> Just got to work out a way of filtering team email that is not going to an ML.
[01:35] <persia> TheMuso: So far, none of my teams subscribe me to bugs :)  Is there any non-bugmail on the UUS ML?
[01:35] <TheMuso> persia: No.
[01:41] <nixternal> hrmm...quick question here...I have a file 'pluck-comics.py.in' and instead of #!/usr/bin/python it has @PYTHON@..is this cool, or should it be changed to #!/usr/bin/python?
[01:41] <ajmitch> ok, another merge down, hopefully this one isn't as broken as the last :)
[01:41] <nixternal> #!@PYTHON@ to be exact
[01:42] <ajmitch> nixternal: that's why it's an .in, but it means it'll end up hardcoding a specific python version
[01:42] <ajmitch> depending on what @PYTHON@ resolves to
[01:42] <nixternal> OK, so I should go ahead and make a patch to do #!/usr/bin/python instead
[01:42] <ajmitch> depends on the above ^^
[01:42] <persia> nixternal: .in files are usually processed by ./configure, so it is likely replaced.  On the other hand, I thought we recommended #!/usr/bin/env python instead (which would be used for the value of PYTHON for configure).
[01:43] <nixternal> well, the 1.8 is patched to remove #!/usr/bin/python2.2 and replace it with #!/usr/bin/python
[01:44] <persia> nixternal: But 1.9 uses @PYTHON@ instead of #!/usr/bin/python2.2?
[01:44] <nixternal> I am working on the snapshot, which has a lot of changes/updates to it..I was surprised actually
[01:44] <nixternal> persia: yes
[01:44] <RAOF> persia: #!/usr/bin/env python is annoying, because the script shows up as "python2.5" in process views, rather than "foo".
[01:44] <nixternal> if we keep the @PYTHON@ then we can drop a patch
[01:45] <StevenK> RAOF: /usr/bin/env is doubly annoying because $LUSER might have python1.5 installed as /usr/local/bin/python
[01:45] <persia> nixternal: I recommend either digging through the build process to change the variables, or building it to see what you get, and if it's not correctly, searching for it in the original source and patching it there, rather than replacing @PYTHON@.
[01:45] <RAOF> Oh, really? And env will pick that up in preference to our shiny new python2.5?
[01:45] <nixternal> persia: roger!
[01:45] <StevenK> env goes by $PATH only.
[01:47] <StevenK> And based on our path, /usr/local/bin trumps both /usr/bin and /bin.
[01:47] <StevenK> Our default $PATH, I should say.
[01:49] <StevenK> TheMuso: Has anyone dealt with your main upload?
[01:49] <TheMuso> StevenK: No.
[01:50] <StevenK> TheMuso: Would you like me to?
[01:50] <TheMuso> StevenK: Only if you have a minute.
[01:50] <TheMuso> StevenK: I'm happy to wait otherwise, no rush.
[01:50] <StevenK> Yeah, it's no problem.
[01:50] <StevenK> TheMuso: Can you clag the bug number so I don't have to dig?
[01:51] <TheMuso> StevenK: SUre. Bug 116167
[01:51] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 116167 in gnome-speech "Please merge gnome-speech 1:0.4.12-3ubuntu1" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/116167
[01:51] <TheMuso> 2nd debdiff.
[01:52] <StevenK> Right. Looking now.
[01:52] <TheMuso> Anyway, afk for a bit.
[01:52] <TheMuso> StevenK: Thanks.
[01:55] <StevenK> TheMuso: Your debdiff looks to remove control.in, is that intended?
[01:55] <StevenK> TheMuso: Also, why did you bin the Uploaders field?
[02:17] <Hobbsee> morning all
[02:17] <RAOF> Mornin Hobbsee 
[02:17] <Hobbsee> :)
[02:18] <persia> Good morning
[02:18] <Hobbsee> :)
[02:21] <persia> PriceChild: Getting much closer, but I found a few things left :)
[02:21] <PriceChild> hehe :)
[02:21] <PriceChild> I just noticed i still have COPYING and wondered what to do about it.
[02:23] <keescook> dang. my optical mouse just stopped working.
[02:23] <PriceChild> Time for bed now though I'm afraid :(
[02:23] <persia> PriceChild: I don't know.  I think you need COPYING for the GPL content, but it doesn't provide a good overview for COPYING the package.  Perhaps NOTICE needs to be updated?  But that's really an upstream thing.
[02:23] <keescook> not even the red light works
[02:23] <Hobbsee> keescook: i thought mice were overrated for you terminal lovers?
[02:23] <persia> PriceChild: When you have time (tomorrow maybe), ask here for someone strong with copyright to look at the package.  They may be able to provide better advice.
[02:24] <PriceChild> Ok thanks.
[02:24] <PriceChild> thanks for reviewing it again, have a good day! :)
[02:24] <keescook> Hobbsee: my work day just ended, I was gonna go play the BSG demo.  :P
[02:24] <Hobbsee> haha
[02:25] <keescook> I can't chase the cylons with my marble mouse, so I plugged in my (previously) trusty optical mouse, and... nothin'.
[02:25] <StevenK> It's a brand.
[02:26] <keescook> marble, like, the ball is a marble I roll around with my thumb
[02:26] <Hobbsee> oh right, where you move the trackball
[02:26] <keescook> trackball! that's it.  yup.  I sure know how to use my words.
[02:35] <Hobbsee> hehe
[02:35] <Hobbsee> it's the lack of beer
[02:38] <persia> Does anyone know the name of the KDE menu editing tool offhand?
[02:39] <Hobbsee> kmenuedit
[02:39] <nixternal> kmenuedit
[02:39] <nixternal> jynx
[02:39] <persia> Hobbsee: nixternal: Thanks.
[02:39] <Hobbsee> nixternal: beat you.  try not to use pointyclicky vista and forget how to type
[02:39] <nixternal> jynx jynx double jynx
[02:39] <persia> nixternal: Not quite - the timestamps won't match in the logs.
[02:39] <nixternal> they match here
[02:39] <nixternal> 19:39:08 [ nixternal]  kmenuedit                                                                  buxy
[02:39] <nixternal> 19:39:08 [   Hobbsee]  kmenuedit
[02:40] <nixternal> sorry buxy...silly irssi
[02:40] <persia> nixternal's clocks must have different microseconds then mine.  Do you use ntp?
[02:40] <StevenK> Hobbsee wins here.
[02:40] <nixternal> yup
[02:41] <StevenK> Neither one of you can claim they win since most clients print the line before sending it.
[02:45] <StevenK> Heh
[02:57] <ScottK> Hobbsee: I'm also interested in what you have to say about my clamav proposal for Friday's meeting.  Are you going to be there?
[02:57] <Hobbsee> ScottK: i'll be there
[02:58] <crimsun> superm1: did you fix the FSF address in COPYING?
[02:58] <superm1> yes crimsun 
[02:58] <superm1> i uploaded it this morning before work
[02:59] <ScottK> Hobbsee: Great.
[02:59] <crimsun> ok, I'll once-over upid=5244 now.
[03:00] <superm1> ok wonderful.  thanks :)
[03:01] <Hobbsee> ScottK: i'd have to read the mail again, but the idea of keeping the newest in the repos under a different name is smart
[03:03] <ScottK> Thanks.
[03:03] <crimsun>   mythbuntu-artwork-usplash_0.1_source.changes: done.
[03:03] <crimsun> Successfully uploaded packages.
[03:03] <crimsun> archived on REVU.
[03:03] <superm1> Thanks crimsun 
[03:03] <crimsun> thank _you_ :-)
[03:04] <ajmitch> yay
[03:05] <ajmitch> I guess I should upload this merge, it appears to actually work 
[03:05] <StevenK> ajmitch: Which?
[03:06] <ajmitch> python-ldap
[03:06] <ajmitch> since I said I'd take some of doko's merges since he did a lot of -dbg additions
[03:06] <ajmitch> heh
[03:06] <ajmitch> can't be as fun as pygobject
[03:06] <StevenK> I'm so not touching gobject.
[03:06] <ajmitch> I did, and I broke it good
[03:07] <StevenK> Heh
[03:07] <ajmitch> python-pam is my next target
[03:07] <StevenK> RAOF: Oh it wasn't bad, just a lot of Ubuntu changes, a lot of Debian changes, and a shedload of upstream changes. All blended together.
[03:07] <RAOF> Wheee!
[03:07] <ajmitch> python-ldap was fairly easy
[03:08] <StevenK> The debdiff on patches.u.c for pycairo was a shade under half a meg.
[03:08] <ajmitch> python-gobject was a mess
[03:08] <ajmitch> 1 conflict in python-pam, only in debian/control
[03:08] <ScottK> Hooray.  New python-dns bugfix upstream release after only 4 years of inactivity!
[03:08] <StevenK> Hmph. My upload isn't much better, at 367K.
[03:09] <StevenK> Of course, if I could be bother sending some of the trivial changes to the Debian maintainer, it'd be easier.
[03:12] <ajmitch> oh nasty
[03:12] <ajmitch> python-pam is a native package with a debian versioning scheme
[03:13] <ajmitch> I'd say it's been like this for awhile
[03:13] <StevenK> Yummy.
[03:13] <nixternal> wo0t... persia, building plucker with wx-config :)
[03:14] <nixternal> 2.4 is fine correct/
[03:14] <ajmitch> http://ftp.egr.msu.edu/debian/pool/main/p/python-pam/python-pam_0.4.2-10.1.tar.gz <-- from 2003
[03:14] <persia> nixternal: If you can build with 2.6, I'd be extra happy.  Does the patch in 1784 not apply?
[03:14] <ajmitch> and I'm just building 0.4.2-12ubuntu1
[03:14] <nixternal> persia: I can build with 2.8 ;)
[03:14] <ajmitch> this is a really active package
[03:15] <nixternal> persia: don't need that patch when using a snapshot
[03:15] <persia> nixternal: If you build with 2.8, it'll be months to get it back to Debian.  I suggest 2.6.  Great news about the patch though.
[03:15] <nixternal> I am testing a snapshot..and if needbe, I will do the patch to the current version in the repos
[03:15] <nixternal> 2.6 it is then
[03:16] <StevenK> Are you going to request wx2.4 gets booted out?
[03:17] <persia> StevenK: When it has no reverse depends, yes.  If I can get the patches back to Debian, Ron will request removal there.
[03:20] <StevenK> persia: Sensible.
[03:20] <persia> StevenK: Did you want it for something?
[03:20] <StevenK> persia: Certainly not, I'm just curious how you're handling it.
[03:20] <ajmitch> so have we removed ion3 from ubuntu yet?
[03:21] <StevenK> Not according to madison-lite.
[03:21] <ajmitch> shame
[03:21] <ajmitch> the author really seems like an arrogant sod
[03:22] <TheMuso> StevenK: Bah! Thats what I get for merging late at night. Uploading a new debdiff.
[03:22] <StevenK> Ohhh, neat.
[03:22] <crimsun> ajmitch: bug 115142
[03:22] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 115142 in ion3 "New distribution conditions based on trademark claim" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/115142
[03:22] <StevenK> You have to be scared when one of the Ubuntu changes for a package is "Work with a recent glibc"
[03:23] <ajmitch> heh
[03:24] <persia> ajmitch: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/removals.txt is a good place to watch.
[03:24] <ajmitch> persia: iff I'm interested in it :)
[03:26] <TheMuso> StevenK: New diff uploaded.
[03:26] <StevenK> TheMuso: Okay, I'll look in a little while.
[03:26] <TheMuso> StevenK: No rush.
[03:26] <TheMuso> c
[03:26] <TheMuso> ugh
[03:29] <persia> Lutin: I've been working with upstream and Debian for the new uqm.  Do you mind if I take the merge?
[03:30] <nixternal> config.status:   I need this new plucker to run autoreconf first, or is there a way around that before it builds the configure file
[03:30] <Fujitsu> ajmitch: Yeah, I've been watching the ion3 saga... Upstream seems a really nice guy, and has promised to never release anything other than binaries for other software he writes.
[03:33] <StevenK> TheMuso: Now you have "Uploaders: Uploaders: "
[03:34] <persia> nixternal: Huh? Could you rephrase your question?
[03:34] <Fujitsu> Womble2?
[03:34] <StevenK> Fujitsu: Ben Hutchings
[03:35] <Fujitsu> Ah, yes.
[03:36] <crimsun> nixternal: you need to build-depend on autotools-dev (if you aren't already build-depending on autoconf/automake1.7+), then modify debian/rules as necessary
[03:37] <crimsun> nixternal: although you've not stated why you want config.status to actually be significant...
[03:43] <nixternal> well, configure is in config.status
[03:43] <nixternal> that is why I said it
[03:44] <RAOF> You mean, there's a config.status rule in debian/rules which calls configure?
[03:44] <nixternal> yes
[03:44] <nixternal> how would I call the autoreconf?
[03:44] <RAOF> As "autoreconf" presumably.
[03:45] <persia> nixternal: Ah.  If you want to run autoreconf before ./configure, just add it to the config.status: rule, prior to the ./configure call.
[03:45] <RAOF> You've made a change to configure.ac or Makefile.am, yes?
[03:45] <nixternal> roger...I am guessing it didn't work because I didn't have the autotools-dev
[03:45] <nixternal> RAOF: no changes made
[03:45] <RAOF> so why do you need to run autoreconf?
[03:45] <nixternal> the tarball doesn't have configure
[03:45] <RAOF> ...
[03:45] <RAOF> Upstream sucks.
[03:45] <nixternal> haha
[03:46] <persia> nixternal: Don't forget to update config.{sub,guess} beforehand (and delete in clean) if you're not doing that already.
[03:46] <nixternal> I will check that
[03:47] <nixternal> OK, there is no config.{sub,guess}, so that needs to be added
[03:47] <StevenK> There's notes on that for autotools-dev
[03:47] <Fujitsu> Wow, great upstream you have there.
[03:48] <RAOF> They couldn't be bothered releasing a "make dist"d tarball, obviously.
[03:49] <persia> RAOF: It's a development snapshot.  They stopped work several years ago without explanation.
[03:49] <RAOF> Cool.
[03:52] <ScottK> Fujitsu: Did you see my python-scipy question in your scrollback?
[03:53] <nixternal> make: *** No rule to make target `autoreconf', needed by `config.status'.  Stop.
[03:53] <Fujitsu> ScottK: No, sorry.
[03:54] <ScottK> Got a minute...
[03:54] <LaserJock> hehe
[03:54] <Fujitsu> Ah, right, there.
[03:54] <Fujitsu> Found it.
[03:54] <Fujitsu> Didn't highlight for some reason.
[03:54] <persia> nixternal: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/22087/
[03:54] <Fujitsu> That's something I've been wondering about for a while, but I really have no idea about it.
[03:54] <nixternal> persia: thanks
[03:55] <ScottK> OK.  It looks to be based on looking at the code and what LaserJock told me the python-numpy should conflict python-scipy-core, not python-scipy conflict python-scipy-core
[03:55] <ScottK> OK.  Well scipy definitely does not provide what scipy-core provides, so I am dead certain that the current situation it wrong.
[03:55] <Fujitsu> Right, that makes more sense.
[03:56] <LaserJock> I really thought that was odd
[03:56] <ScottK> OK.  I'll go fix it that way and we'll see what happens...
[03:56] <LaserJock> does python-numpy conflict with python-scipy-core
[03:56] <LaserJock> well, just a sec though
[03:56] <LaserJock> I think perhaps it's ok for python-scipy to conflict with python-scipy-core
[03:57] <LaserJock> I *think* that our version of python-scipy won't work with python-scipy-core
[03:57] <Fujitsu> We're in sync with Debian.
[03:57] <ScottK> LaserJock: Then why do we even have scipy-core?
[03:57] <StevenK> Hrm. I think I'm done with iputils.
[03:58] <TheMuso> StevenK: Gah its not my day is it.
[03:58] <LaserJock> ScottK: well, for people who have scipy-core code
[03:58] <ajmitch> StevenK: cutting through the merges?
[03:58] <StevenK> TheMuso: Heh
[03:58] <StevenK> ajmitch: This will be my fourth since yesterday afternoon.
[03:59] <ScottK> Looking at the source, scipy-core and numpy have definite overlaps.  I think they should ideally be configured via update-alternatives, but at the very least conflict as they do provide some of the same files.
[03:59] <ajmitch> StevenK: not bad
[03:59] <LaserJock> ScottK: well, numpy is scipy-core-ng ;-)
[03:59] <ScottK> Right.  Which makes replace/conflict seem very sensible.
[03:59] <LaserJock> numpy is renamed and somewhat rewritten scipy-core
[03:59] <Hobbsee> hi ajmitch 
[04:00] <LaserJock> our version of scipy depends on numpy
[04:00] <LaserJock> but a person could have code written for scipy-core
[04:00] <TheMuso> StevenK: Fixed...
[04:00] <Kr4t05> Does anyone want to tackle getting StepMania 3.9 into Gutsy?
[04:00] <persia> Kr4t05: Is it in Debian?
[04:01] <jmg_> whats it blocking on?
[04:01] <Kr4t05> persia: Hrm... Not that I know of.
[04:01] <Hobbsee> Kr4t05: you do
[04:01] <Kr4t05> I'll have to look. One moment.
[04:01] <Hobbsee> actually, stepmania is on REVU,  iirc
[04:01] <LaserJock> yeah
[04:01] <Kr4t05> Hobbsee: Ah, good to know. :)
[04:01] <Kr4t05> Ok, thanks for the info.
[04:02] <superm1> LaserJock, do you want to get that feather torture session thing done tonight?
[04:02] <LaserJock> oh yeah
[04:04] <StevenK> TheMuso: Okay, third time lucky.
[04:04] <ScottK> LaserJock: Then maybe the right answer is to do nothing.  I asked the bug reporter to install numby and see if that worked.  I'll wait and see what they say I guess.
[04:05] <LaserJock> well, the bug report was a tad odd
[04:05] <LaserJock> but if the issue is "where did the distutils go?"
[04:05] <LaserJock> then perhaps we need a fix for that
[04:07] <ajmitch> StevenK: what other python merges are you touching?
[04:07] <ScottK> That seemed to be the issue.
[04:11] <jmg_> english.aljazeera.net broken for anyone else?
[04:11] <StevenK> ajmitch: Nothing at the moment.
[04:11] <ajmitch> StevenK: ok, I might borrow python-mysqldb as well
[04:12] <ScottK> Looks like python-adns is orphaned in Debian and an upstream release behind...
[04:12] <ajmitch> ScottK: there are a few packages like that
[04:13] <ScottK> ajmitch: I'm thinking I might adopt it.
[04:13] <ScottK> I'm already maintaining one similar package (python-dns)
[04:13] <ajmitch> may as well
[04:13] <ajmitch> are you sure it's orphaned?
[04:13] <ajmitch> python-adns (1.1.0-3) unstable; urgency=low
[04:13] <ajmitch>  .
[04:13] <ajmitch>    * New maintainer (closes: #379683).
[04:14] <ScottK> Nevermind then I guess.  I was looking at the -2 diff.
[04:14] <ScottK> clicked on the wrong one...
[04:15] <ScottK> I guess that's one less thing to worry about tonight...
[04:17] <StevenK> TheMuso: Patch looks good.
[04:18] <TheMuso> StevenK: Ok thanks.
[04:18] <StevenK> TheMuso: Third time lucky. :-)
[04:18] <TheMuso> StevenK: As you said.
[04:25] <TheMuso> StevenK: How long since it was updated? :)
[04:25] <StevenK> Yesterday.
[04:25] <nixternal> we are close..configure craps out searching for a cross-compiler
[04:25] <StevenK> My sid chroots on the other hand ... :-)
[04:26] <persia> nixternal: That's just build-deps :)
[04:26] <nixternal> ya, seems it may be m86k-palmos-gcc
[04:27] <TheMuso> StevenK: I'm guessing libespeak-dev wouldn't install due to a newer one being in the archives now?
[04:28] <StevenK> Correct.
[04:29] <StevenK> TheMuso: Okay, rubber-stamping.
[04:30] <TheMuso> StevenK: Thanks.
[04:30] <TheMuso> Now to fix the packages relying on what was libgnome-speech3.
[04:33] <StevenK> TheMuso: Bug updated, and status slammed to Fix Commited.
[04:33] <TheMuso> StevenK: Thanks.
[04:33] <TheMuso> Will keep an eye out.
[04:33] <StevenK> :-P
[04:33] <TheMuso> heh
[04:34] <LaserJock> lol
[04:47] <hendrixski> to package a python program, do I need distutils?
[04:49] <ScottK> hendrixski: Need, no, but if you have a good setup.py, a good debian package is a snap.
[04:53] <hendrixski> ScottK, Ok... because I just wrote a helloworld,py and a setup.py and ran "python setup.py install"
[04:54] <ScottK> hendrixski: That'll work on your local system, but not if you want to package something to be distributed by Ubuntu.
[04:55] <hendrixski> ScottK, so if I want to turn it into a .deb I have to tarball those two files and then dh_make?
[04:58] <ScottK> It's a little more complex.  What Ubuntu release are you running?
[04:58] <hendrixski> ScottK, I'm working through this manual on python distutils and I'm not even sure if it installed it on my system (well, on my chroot) so i dunno if I'm ready to move onto the debianization part of it
[04:59] <hendrixski> I'm on edgy
[04:59] <ScottK> OK.
[04:59] <ScottK> Gimme a sec and I'll point you at a simple python package you can look at for an example.
[05:00] <hendrixski> ScottK, that would be good.  I was looking at democracy player's .deb package, and it's HUGE, so I'm confused
[05:00] <ScottK> Not a good place to start
[05:01] <ScottK> hendrixski: in a new directory, try dget -x http://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/main/p/pyyaml/pyyaml_3.05-1.dsc
[05:03] <hendrixski> k. getting
[05:05] <hendrixski> ScottK, Ok so what specifically should I look at when I delve into one of these anyway? 'cause I have this terrible feeling that I'm always looking at the wrong things
[05:05] <etank> i have an app that i would like to make into a deb. what is the recommended way to do that?
[05:05] <ScottK> Look in the /debian dir.  That's where all the packaging information is.
[05:10] <Fujitsu> persia: You can upload over the top before the next scanning run (every 5 minutes)
[05:10] <Hobbsee> persia: ask an archive admin, or jsut upload another which reverts the changes
[05:10] <persia> Fujitsu: I'll try.  Thanks
[05:12] <hendrixski> ScottK, that's a pretty small debian/rules  I assume cdbs just does all that with one fell swoop?
[05:18] <ajmitch> persia: you're probably far too late already
[05:19] <persia> ajmitch: Yes.  Very much so.  Alas.
[05:20] <hendrixski> actually, I'm still pretty confused... python-yaml is an extension to python.. so it uses the distutils.. can I use the distutils for packaging applications, like my helloworld?
[05:21] <hendrixski> I'm getting the impression from reading stuff that distutils is only for adding functionality to the python language itself?  is that, kind of close to true?
[05:21] <ajmitch> distutils is used for applications as well
[05:23] <LaserJock> hmm, I can't seem to unmount a proc mounted in schroot
[05:23] <ajmitch> LaserJock: kill whatever's using it
[05:24] <persia> LaserJock: `sudo lsof | grep schroot`
[05:25] <hendrixski> ajmitch, Ok.  so... if I wanted to install helloworld.py on my dchroot, is the command python setup.py install the one I'm looking for?  because it doesn't seem to install it.  
[05:27] <ajmitch> if you're writing an application, you need to create setup.py with the right info
[05:28] <hendrixski> ajmitch, :-) I have a setup.py with just a setup(name, version, py_modules)
[05:30] <hendrixski> ajmitch, that's all they have in this manual... but when I ran install, I'm not sure that what it did is installing a program :-(
[05:31] <LaserJock> persia: how does that help me, I got quite a few results
[05:32] <hendrixski> and that's all the same stuff that's in pyyaml, which ScottK had sent me.
[05:32] <LaserJock> all I see is a bunch of dbus stuff
[05:32] <persia> LaserJock: OK.  Just for you: sudo kill -9 `lsof | grep schroot  | awk '{ print $2 }'  | uniq`
[05:33] <persia> dbus, mysql, and apache are the big culprits for me.  I anxiously await the possible introduction of allowing installation of daemons without immediate start.
[05:33] <LaserJock> persia: I think mine is dbus
[05:34] <ajmitch> persia: that's a feature, not a bug :)
[05:35] <persia> ajmitch: I heard nice things about it being possibly addressed in the LIghtning Talks section of the debconf 2006 videos.
[05:35] <persia> (plus it breaks sbuild on schroot on LVM snapshot)
[05:35] <ScottK> hendrixski: If you want an application (a simple one) see dget -x http://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/main/p/pypolicyd-spf/pypolicyd-spf_0.3-1.dsc
[05:36] <ScottK> hendrixski: Yes, for a simple package, cbds and python-support do all the heavy lifting for you.
[05:39] <StevenK> persia: How?
[05:40] <ScottK> persia: spamd in spamassassin installs default not started, so it is possible.
[05:40] <persia> StevenK: When sbuild detects it is running in a session-managed chroot, it doesn't remove the build-deps after the build.  When there are daemons running, they stay running, and schroot cannot clean up after itself, leaving an extra snapshot.  After a while the snapshot partition gets full.
[05:41] <StevenK> Ahh.
[05:41] <StevenK> pbuilder manages to cope with this ... :-)
[05:42] <persia> StevenK: These need to be manually removed by killing the offending processes and running `schroot -e -c long-complicated-random-string-generated-at-build-time`.  If they are forcibly removed with `sudo lvremove /dev/data00/long-complicated-random-string-generated-at-build-time`, schroot gets confused.
[05:42] <persia> StevenK: pbuilder requires me to untar each time.  Snapshots are instantaneous.
[05:42] <hendrixski> ScottK, aaahh cool
[05:43] <StevenK> Perhaps if pbuilder could use snapshots.
[05:43] <TheMuso> persia: How do snapshots help sbuild anyway?
[05:43] <TheMuso> sbuild and schroot that is.
[05:43] <persia> StevenK: Perhaps, but then it might run afoul of the same problem, because some smart person might apply the small, simple, and wrong solution, and not clean up after each build.
[05:44] <LaserJock> ok, so apparently it's just my gutsy chroot that's messed up
[05:44] <LaserJock> :(
[05:44] <StevenK> Ah.
[05:44] <hendrixski> alright.  Enough packaging excitement for one night.  Thanks again.  I'l play with those packages a little more and come back with more questions
[05:44] <LaserJock> well, I mean I can't get into my gutsy chroot
[05:45] <persia> TheMuso: I have a master chroot, which only has base, build-essential, and devscripts installed.  Each build is done on a snapshot, so the master schroot is always clean.  Multiple simultaneous builds are possible, without any chance of interference.
[05:45] <TheMuso> persia: Ah.
[05:45] <TheMuso> Well pbuilder does this in another way. It unpacks a base tarball that goes ina dir named after the pid of the pbuilder process.
[05:45] <hendrixski> persia, what's the difference between schroot and dchroot?
[05:46] <persia> TheMuso: Right.  sbuild on schroot mounts to /var/lib/schroot/mount/long-random-string to do the same thing.
[05:46] <StevenK> hendrixski: schroot is a rewrite, and provides all of the functionality and more of dchroot.
[05:46] <persia> hendrixski: Nothing any more.  They used to be different, and dchroot is older
[05:46] <TheMuso> persia: I think that the random string, is something like an UUID, or something along those lines.
[05:47] <hendrixski> ohh... so like a fork?
[05:47] <persia> TheMuso: I think it's the UUID of the snapshot, generated at the time of snapshot creation, but I'm not sure.  It does match the Logical Volume name.
[05:47] <LaserJock> hmm, I really don't want to have to recreate this chroot :(
[05:47] <StevenK> Not sure if schroot forked dchroot.
[05:48] <TheMuso> Dchroot depends on schroot.
[05:48] <StevenK> LaserJock: I have a local mirror, so building a chroot takes a few minutes. :-)
[05:48] <persia> TheMuso: Now dchroot is just a wrapper.  It used to be it's own program, until schroot took over.
[05:48] <StevenK> TheMuso: I does now, yes.
[05:48] <TheMuso> Right.
[05:48] <LaserJock> yeah, I was irritated about that
[05:48] <persia> LaserJock: Your master chroot is corrupted?
[05:48] <LaserJock> but now it's ok
[05:48] <LaserJock> master chroot?
[05:49] <LaserJock> I just have one chroot for gutsy
[05:49] <LaserJock> I don't use snapshots
[05:49] <TheMuso> SO I guess a snapshot only records the differences between the master and the new changes?
[05:49] <StevenK> TheMuso: Exactly.
[05:49] <LaserJock> heavens no, LVM does not work well for me
[05:49] <hendrixski> oh.  that's interesting.  I just learned how to set up the dchroot (and what  chroot is, which is kind of cool) so it doesn't matter which type I use?
[05:50] <persia> hendrixski: I recommend learning schroot instead of dchroot.  The wrapper will eventually go away.
[05:50] <TheMuso> StevenK: I wonder if pbuilder would be more efficient if it were to work with lvm snapshots.
[05:50] <TheMuso> persia: Really? News to me.
[05:50] <LaserJock> I really don't like LVM yet
[05:50] <StevenK> TheMuso: I have been too.
[05:50] <StevenK> LaserJock: Use a server with it, you'll learn to love it.
[05:51] <LaserJock> I just screwed everything up
[05:51] <ajmitch> LaserJock: why?
[05:51] <LaserJock> well, I don't know if it was me exactly
[05:51] <persia> TheMuso: Why not?  I suspect it'll take about three Debian releases, but someone will probably get tired of maintaining legacy compatibility options.
[05:51] <LaserJock> nothing seems to work with LVM
[05:51] <StevenK> LaserJock: Such as?
[05:51] <TheMuso> persia: Ah right.
[05:51] <hendrixski> persia, oh.  I picked up the dchroot from the Ubuntu packaging guide.  Is there a manual you'd recomend for schroot?
[05:51] <LaserJock> any time I install an OS it either wipes my LVM or doesn't know anything about LVM
[05:51] <TheMuso> persia: We should look at porting pbuilder to using snapshots...
[05:52] <StevenK> % df -h / | tail -n 2 | head -n 1
[05:52] <StevenK> /dev/mapper/system-root
[05:52] <LaserJock> LVM has been nothing but a headache for me
[05:52] <LaserJock> I know
[05:52] <TheMuso> ajmitch: wow.
[05:52] <ajmitch> TheMuso: wow?
[05:52] <LaserJock> ajmitch: you're the one that convinced me to try it
[05:52] <persia> TheMuso: dancer listed that on the TODO list, so it's probably very welcome upstream.
[05:52] <TheMuso> ajmitch: Never thought one would use it on a notebook.
[05:52] <LaserJock> I guess I'm to dumb for LVM ;-)
[05:53] <LaserJock> *too
[05:53] <ajmitch> TheMuso: same reason as on a desktop - snapshots, and space for things like xen
[05:53] <persia> hendrixski: I used https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SbuildLVMHowto, but it's really sparse, and a little out of date.
[05:53] <StevenK> LaserJock: I'm happy to talk to you about it if you like.
[05:53] <ajmitch> persia: ask keescook about it then :)
[05:53] <TheMuso> persia: Whats that howto missing?
[05:53] <LaserJock> StevenK: well, I just don't have a reason for it, tbh
[05:54] <LaserJock> my "server" has only one disk I care about (hda is Windows) and I just have large partitions
[05:54] <persia> TheMuso: It's not missing anything per se, but it assumes you run hoary or breezy and want to build dapper packages.  The updated  mk-sbuild-lv.sh works quite well.
[05:54] <TheMuso> persia: Ah ok.
[05:54] <persia> Also, some of the configuration syntax has changed.
[05:55] <LaserJock> anywho, I just want to figure out why my silly gutsy chroot won't work
[05:55] <StevenK> LaserJock: What happens when you try and chroot?
[05:55] <keescook> persia: I use sbuild every day.  :)  what can I help with?
[05:56] <LaserJock> mount: proc already mounted or /var/lib/schroot/mount/gutsy-ca068666-0b74-4953-8014-bfccdd6b5b19/proc busy
[05:56] <LaserJock> mount: according to mtab, proc is mounted on /proc
[05:56] <LaserJock> E: gutsy-ca068666-0b74-4953-8014-bfccdd6b5b19: Chroot setup failed: stage=setup-start
[05:56] <persia> keescook: The text on https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SbuildLVMHowto is a little out of date (although your script works great).  It's the best place I can find to point people working with sbuild/schroot/LVM, but it feels old.
[05:57] <keescook> persia: yeah, I wasn't sure how to go about updating the page.  It's kinda like "use this script"  :P
[05:57] <hendrixski> persia, hhm.. so I assume dchroot does the stuff with the lvm as part of being a wrapper?
[05:57] <persia> keescook: Also, I think it would be assisted with some troubleshooting data, like the use of lsof and schroot -e to shut down stale schroots that didn't close due to daemons running, etc.
[05:57] <keescook> LaserJock: yikes.  schroot should have taken care of all of that for you.  Ah, perhaps you don't have my schroot patches?
[05:57] <persia> hendrixski: If schroot is set up to use LVM, yes.
[05:58] <LaserJock> keescook: is there any chance to get you to explain the script a bit in the wiki page. I was pretty hesitant to use it
[05:58] <keescook> persia: aah, yeah.
[05:58] <persia> keescook: I'm running from the archives.  Are your patches applied?
[05:58] <LaserJock> well, my dapper and edgy chroots work fine
[05:58] <keescook> LaserJock, persia: I have a few patches I wrote prior to getting ubuntu-dev membership, they're sitting in the Debian BTS still
[05:58] <LaserJock> it seems like only my gutsy one that I can't get into
[05:58] <keescook> I note them at the top of the script.
[05:59] <hendrixski> persia, Ok.  and the sbuild they talk about in there can create binary .debs, so I don't need pbuilder?
[05:59] <keescook> they fully clean up the chroot before shutting down (i.e. find all running processes and kill them)
[05:59] <keescook> hendrixski: correct
[05:59] <StevenK> LaserJock: Does --verbose help?
[05:59] <keescook> persia: hehe.  :)
[05:59] <Hobbsee> :)
[05:59] <StevenK> hendrixski: That'll wear off. :-P
[05:59] <ajmitch> StevenK: hah
[05:59] <keescook> let's see, I'll go patch schroot right now... 
[05:59] <ajmitch> cynical yet? :)
[06:00] <Kim_> If a bug has been resolved in a newer version of Ubuntu, do I set the status to fix released?
[06:00] <StevenK> Then you'll be bitter and twisted like ajmitch.
[06:00] <ajmitch> exactly
[06:00] <persia> keescook: Thanks.
[06:00] <ajmitch> filled with hate for the world
[06:00] <StevenK> And possibily, a New Zealander, which is as bad.
[06:00] <ajmitch> only if you're an australian
[06:00] <hendrixski> StevenK, :-( aaawww, don't tell me that
[06:00] <StevenK> hendrixski: I'm poking fun, that's all. :-)
[06:00] <StevenK> ajmitch: Hah
[06:01] <persia> hendrixski: It takes years.  You can have fun first.  It's like making cheese.
[06:01] <LaserJock> StevenK: nope, --verbose doesn't help much
[06:01] <hendrixski> making cheese?
[06:01] <Hobbsee> dabaR_: yes
[06:01] <dabaR_> Hobbsee, thank you. Do I also assign noone to the bug?
[06:02] <Hobbsee> doesnt matter
[06:02] <Hobbsee> if it's closed, it doesnt show unless you speciifcally search for it
[06:03] <StevenK> Hrm. It looks like the path from accepted to the archive is closed.
[06:04] <LaserJock> why the heck does it think proc is mounted?
[06:04] <LaserJock> grrr
[06:04] <ajmitch> StevenK: hm?
[06:04] <StevenK> LaserJock: Okay, can I get you to strace schroot and pastebin the result?
[06:04] <hendrixski> alrighty, really have to go to sleep.  Thanks again.
[06:04] <StevenK> LaserJock: strace -s 1500 schroot ...
[06:04] <StevenK> ajmitch: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+queue?queue_state=2&queue_text=&start=20
[06:05] <ajmitch> so it's empty..
[06:05] <StevenK> Oh bloody hell, it wasn't a few seconds ago.
[06:05] <ajmitch> :)
[06:06] <LaserJock> does strace output to stderr?
[06:06] <ajmitch> strace -o filename
[06:07] <keescook> LaserJock: you likely have a "bind" mount
[06:07] <keescook> try
[06:07] <keescook> umount /var/lib/schroot/mount/NAME/proc
[06:08] <StevenK> mount | grep -c /var/lib/schroot, too
[06:10] <LaserJock> no help
[06:10] <LaserJock> I had some stuff mounted from my dapper chroot
[06:10] <keescook> pastebin the output of "mount" ?
[06:13] <LaserJock> keescook: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/22097/
[06:13] <keescook> LaserJock: hunh.  so what's the error you're seeing?
[06:14] <LaserJock> mount: proc already mounted or /var/lib/schroot/mount/gutsy-d44ee894-8d17-4b92-82c4-866ffd620fd0/proc busy
[06:14] <LaserJock> mount: according to mtab, proc is mounted on /proc
[06:14] <LaserJock> E: gutsy-d44ee894-8d17-4b92-82c4-866ffd620fd0: Chroot setup failed: stage=setup-start
[06:14] <TheMuso> keescook: Where do we get the template for the schroot/sbuild script, or do we just make our own from sources.list?
[06:15] <keescook> TheMuso: the script has an internal sources.list, but you can make your own and name it ~/.mk-sbuild-lv.sources
[06:15] <TheMuso> Gotcha.
[06:15] <keescook> where "RELEASE" will automatically be replaced by the release it's building a chroot for
[06:15] <Hobbsee> dude, wtf?
[06:16] <Hobbsee> https://launchpad.net/bugs/116344
[06:16] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 116344 in Ubuntu "Sifilinaptic Package Error for 3 days" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
[06:17] <Hobbsee> particularly:
[06:17] <Hobbsee> Learn how to fix the bugs automatically.
[06:17] <Hobbsee> Learn from Windows at least something
[06:17] <persia> Windows fixes bugs automatically?
[06:17] <ajmitch> users are so much fun
[06:18] <Simon80> lol @ Sifilinaptic
[06:18] <Simon80> is someone going to reply and tell him to fix his /etc/apt/sources.list?
[06:18] <keescook> LaserJock: I would do:
[06:18] <keescook> sudo mount -o bind /proc /var/lib/schroot/mount/gutsy-d44ee894-8d17-4b92-82c4-866ffd620fd0/proc
[06:18] <Simon80> and lol at i384
[06:18] <keescook> and try it again
[06:19] <Simon80> and the reporter's ID is Usuchtu
[06:19] <Simon80> I assume that's supposed to be Usucktu
[06:20] <Simon80> I don't think said user is going to understand your message
[06:20] <Simon80> words like PEBKAC are too esoteric and complicated
[06:20] <cables> An Exaile dev is going to make a patch for a bug that basically changes the list of file formats it's allowed to transfer to iPods. Is that going to be updated in the repos, or will I have to build the new version myself?
[06:20] <LaserJock> keescook: ok, I've got it mounted, but I get the same error
[06:21] <keescook> oh wait... you're trying to shutdown an schroot, right?  I see.  Sorry, umount that again, and just delete /var/lib/schroot/session/gutsy-d44ee894-8d17-4b92-82c4-866ffd620fd0
[06:21] <Hobbsee> Simon80: definition added
[06:22] <Simon80> lol
[06:22] <keescook> it looks like everything was already umounted, it just thinks there's still a session running
[06:23] <Hobbsee> cables: you could put it into the repository
[06:24] <cables> Hobbsee, how could I possibly do that?
[06:24] <keescook> LaserJock: here's a rather aggressive script I wrote to clean that sort of thing up: http://people.ubuntu.com/~kees/scripts/u-schroot-cleanup
[06:24] <Hobbsee> cables: when are they going to release their next upstream?
[06:24] <cables> Hobbsee, I'm not a MOTU :) I'm just wondering if that sort of stuff gets updated
[06:24] <keescook> be careful with it; it hasn't deleted my harddrive yet.  :)
[06:24] <Hobbsee> cables: sure, if someone sees it, and acts on it.
[06:24] <Hobbsee> cables: and that's why we have sponsorship
[06:24] <StevenK> keescook: Bind mount / and try it. :-P
[06:25] <cables> Hobbsee, I need more coding and building knowledge before I can think of becoming a sponsor. I'm going to try to learn Python, is that a good starting point?
[06:25] <minghua> maybe by "learn from windows" the reporter mean we should give a blue screen with "your /etc/apt/sources.list is corrupt, please reinstall Ubuntu" or something? :-)
[06:25] <StevenK> minghua: Hah
[06:25] <StevenK> keescook: You overuse awk. :-P
[06:25] <persia> blue is nice.  Calming.
[06:25] <Hobbsee> cables: i'd first go and ask the exaile people when tehy plan to release their next version
[06:25] <keescook> StevenK: yes, yes I do.  :P
[06:26] <StevenK> keescook: cut is your friend. :-)
[06:26] <Simon80> minghua: people like that dude deserve windows, hehe
[06:26] <keescook> StevenK: yeah, since 2007 or so, I've switched to cut more often than not
[06:26] <StevenK> keescook: Oh yes, the 1980's called, it wants their subshell quoting rules back.
[06:27] <cables> Hobbsee, he says he's writing the patch tomorrow, I was just on IRC with him and told him the bug
[06:27] <StevenK> keescook: Use $() :-P
[06:27] <keescook> StevenK: hehehe.  that's another change I've made.  ;)
[06:27] <keescook> patches are welcome.  ;)
[06:27] <StevenK> :-)
[06:27] <LaserJock> keescook: no go :(
[06:28] <keescook> LaserJock: okay, so, just so I understand, you're trying to shut down an schroot, right?
[06:28] <LaserJock> well, not exactly
[06:28] <Hobbsee> cables: right.  if they're going to release a new tarball before our upstream version freeze, tehn you may as wlel make sure that the new version gets into ubuntu, rather than putting in the patch now
[06:28] <LaserJock> I'm trying to get *into* my chroot
[06:28] <keescook> and this was built using the mk-sbuild-lv.sh script?
[06:28] <cables> Hobbsee, you mean before gutsy's freeze? I don't know the lingo :)
[06:29] <LaserJock> keescook: nope
[06:29] <Hobbsee> yes
[06:29] <keescook> LaserJock: ah, in that case, I'm not entirely sure what your config looks like, but does "id" show you as being part of the "sbuild" group?
[06:30] <LaserJock> I'm not using sbuild, sorry
[06:30] <keescook> oh. hm
[06:30] <LaserJock> I'm literally just trying to chroot in
[06:31] <LaserJock> I can sudo chroot in
[06:31] <LaserJock> but schroot is no go
[06:31] <persia> LaserJock: Are you either listed directly, or in a listed group for the chroot in schroot.conf?
[06:31] <LaserJock> I'm listed directly
[06:32] <keescook> LaserJock: I spent a lot of time beating my head against schroot.  Once I got a schroot working, I wrote that script to reproduce it.  :P  I've kind of be ignoring the internals ever since.  :P
[06:32] <Simon80> when's UVF?
[06:32] <persia> Simon80: August
[06:32] <Simon80> k
[06:32] <LaserJock> wiki.ubuntu.com/GutsyReleaseSchedule
[06:32] <Simon80> lots of time to get into debian instead, I hope
[06:32] <LaserJock> keescook: well, it *was* working
[06:33] <Simon80> I guess I want to know when DIF is
[06:33] <LaserJock> June 20 I think
[06:33] <TheMuso> keescook: Have you considered adding the patch to schroot for Ubuntu?
[06:33] <Simon80> LaserJock: sorry for wasting your time, I should just look it up next time
[06:33] <Simon80> but thanks
[06:33] <keescook> TheMuso: yup, just uploaded it now.
[06:34] <TheMuso> keescook: Ah ok.
[06:34] <LaserJock> Simon80: not a waste exactly, it's just nice to know where to look it up yourself ;-)
[06:34] <TheMuso> his copy even
[06:35] <Simon80> anyway, it's ok to miss the DIF, I can just request a sync
[06:35] <Simon80> right?
[06:35] <persia> Simon80: You need to draft a Rationale to get a sync after DIF.  Most good reasons are fine.
[06:35] <Simon80> what if the reason is it's a package I made?
[06:35] <StevenK> persia: No he doesn't.
[06:36] <Simon80> I didn't think so
[06:36] <persia> StevenK: No?  It used to be that way.
[06:36] <Simon80> it's not like the other freezes, you just file a bug
[06:36] <Simon80> my understanding
[06:36] <StevenK> persia: You don't need a rationale even after UVF if it's a new Debian upload.
[06:36] <persia> Simon80: Just mention the improvements in debian (debian/changelog update is usually enough) [with the old way of doing things] 
[06:36] <Simon80> well, you'd have till new packages freeze universe
[06:37] <Simon80> persia, in this case it would be a new package upload
[06:37] <Simon80> sponsored, since I'm not a DD
[06:37] <persia> StevenK: What happened to Rationale?  Was it decided that it was too much trouble to judge, and we'd do better to trust Debian?
[06:38] <StevenK> persia: I've had to rationalize new upstreams, but not a new Debian revision.
[06:38] <TheMuso> Wow. First it was sparc, now ia64 lags behind. :)
[06:38] <StevenK> ia64 should be catching up.
[06:38] <Simon80> what about a new package?
[06:39] <persia> StevenK: I understand.  I was told to write Rationale a long time ago, and wasn't told it was a waste of time until now.  I want my keyboard wear reversed :)
[06:39] <StevenK> Ahh, now a new package will probably require rationale after DIF.
[06:40] <StevenK> However, now persia has confused me, so please check yourself. :-P
[06:41] <LaserJock> ok, wow
[06:41] <persia> StevenK: I don't think we need a whole UVF report, just a couple sentences (new bugs fixed, compiles properly in current development snapshot, etc.).
[06:41] <LaserJock> I figured it out
[06:42] <StevenK> LaserJock: Share!
[06:42] <LaserJock> somehow I had proc mounted in the actual chroot
[06:42] <StevenK> Neat.
[06:42] <persia> LaserJock: Nifth!
[06:42] <persia> s/h/y/
[06:42] <LaserJock> but it didn't show up in mount ore df -a or anything
[06:42] <ajmitch> LaserJock: that's not unusual
[06:42] <ajmitch> it would have shown in /proc/mounts though
[06:43] <LaserJock> hmm
[06:43] <LaserJock> well, now that I've spent the last hour working on that ...
[06:44] <ajmitch> :)
[06:46] <Simon80> anyone seen an upstream version of a package that has a hyphen in it?
[06:46] <Simon80> I'm wondering if I should tweak my own script to take that into account
[06:47] <Simon80> nvm, lol, I just thought of a better way, using the output of dpkg-parsechangelog
[06:48] <Simon80> damn shell
[06:48] <Simon80> it's so convoluted, and yet so useful that it's not going away anytime soon
[06:50] <minghua> Simon80: xfonts-wqy has hyphen in upstream version number
[06:50] <Simon80> hehe, cool
[06:50] <Simon80> well, my method should work
[06:51] <Hobbsee> hi spam.
[06:51] <ajmitch> uh oh, it's a CC member!
[06:51] <StevenK> Look busy!
[06:51] <Simon80> I was just trying to find a reliable way to figure out the orig tarball in shell
[06:52] <StevenK> Simon80: By parsing the .dsc?
[06:52] <Simon80> nah
[06:52] <Simon80> before that
[06:52] <StevenK> I can't think of a reliable way, then.
[06:53] <Simon80> so far what I do is take `basename $PWD` and remove -{the upstream version}, then add _{the upstream version}
[06:53] <TheMuso> Simon80: What are you working on?
[06:53] <Simon80> little script to backport packages for different dists, then upload them to my new personal repo
[06:54] <Simon80> probably something someone else has already done
[06:54] <Simon80> that, or probably I should share it :)
[06:54] <persia> Simon80: If you can reliably determine upstream, consider uscan - it has some handy logic to name orig.tar.gz
[06:55] <nixternal> rm -rf pluck*
[06:55] <nixternal> what the pluck!
[06:55] <persia> nixternal: Why ?!?
[06:55] <nixternal> haha, man it is so close
[06:55] <nixternal> http.h
[06:55] <nixternal> that is what I am trying to figure out now
[06:55] <nixternal> #include <http.h>
[06:55] <Simon80> persia, is it more complicated than just name_upstream.orig.tar.gz?
[06:55] <nixternal> need to find out what that is provided by
[06:55] <persia> Simon80: No.
[06:56] <Simon80> well then, no need
[06:56] <TheMuso> Simon80: DOn't forget that some packages are native, i.e there is no revision.
[06:56] <keescook> persia, LaserJock: I made my first stab at updating the instructions on https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SbuildLVMHowto
[06:56] <nixternal> and autoreconf & ./configure == evil..there is an autoconf.sh file which does everything..and it works
[06:56] <Simon80> TheMuso: brain... meting
[06:56] <Simon80> melting*
[06:56] <Simon80> I don't need to worry about that for a while
[06:56] <keescook> okay, to bed for realz
[06:57] <nixternal> fo realz
[06:58] <persia> keescook: That looks great.  My only confusion is early discussion about gutsy, and lots of examples with feisty.  Thanks a lot.
[06:58] <Simon80> in those cases, my script isn't appropriate anyway, it's for backporting
[06:58] <Simon80> ...so how would I append ~something to the debian release if there is no release number?
[07:00] <Simon80> hmm, nevermind, I see existing backports just append to the upstream version
[07:03] <Simon80> I should probably put this and the other script I have on a wiki page or something at some point
[07:03] <Simon80> I'm using reprepro with a wrapper that adds packages from an incoming directory
[07:04] <Simon80> so this script copies the source directory to a temp dir, updates the changelog to add a ~dist1 thing, builds it, dputs it, and then dput runs the wrapper, it goes into the repo
[07:05] <TheMuso> ah cool.
[07:05] <Simon80> dunno how that compares to what other people use for repos, I'm still unsure what others use
[07:05] <TheMuso> I guess it depends on how automated/manual you want the repo to be.
[07:05] <Simon80> yeah
[07:06] <Simon80> well, I mean, if you want a pool, different dists and components
[07:06] <TheMuso> Simon80: Does reprepro do that?
[07:06] <Simon80> yes
[07:06] <Simon80> generates contents files too
[07:06] <TheMuso> Right.
[07:09] <TheMuso> Reprepro is the best tool I've found so far for doing deacent repositories.
[07:09] <StevenK> I disagree.
[07:09] <StevenK> But whichever.
[07:10] <Simon80> StevenK: please point out what you prefer
[07:10] <Simon80> I actually set up a mini-dinstall repo just before this before realizing it outputs trivial repos only
[07:10] <StevenK> Simon80: I don't need my own repository, have you had a look at falcon?
[07:10] <Simon80> a bit
[07:11] <StevenK> mini-dinstall is worse than reprepro.
[07:11] <Simon80> not from the repo maintainer's end
[07:11] <Simon80> yeah, it is
[07:11] <TheMuso> StevenK: Where can one find more info on falcon?
[07:11] <TheMuso> I've heard of it a few times, but not seen it
[07:12] <StevenK> TheMuso: https://launchpad.net/falcon
[07:12] <TheMuso> Oh ok.
[07:12] <Simon80> it's hard to find its homepage
[07:12] <TheMuso> Woooo
[07:13] <TheMuso> Something like this has been needed for a long time.
[07:13] <LaserJock> it's been around for a while
[07:13] <TheMuso> Are there any official releases of it?
[07:14] <TheMuso> i.e I see two branches, but not sure which one to use.
[07:14] <Simon80> I'm pretty happy with reprepro now that it's set up ;)
[07:14] <TheMuso> I see falcon-2, but not sure if its unstable, etc.
[07:15] <LaserJock> I think that's the one you want
[07:15] <LaserJock> I've not used falcon, but I had talk about the branches with somebody in the know
[07:15] <LaserJock> *had a
[07:16] <Simon80> it's ironic that it's aiming to be user friendly, but it's impossible to find a canonical upstream source to obtain it from
[07:16] <LaserJock> of course
[07:16] <LaserJock> that's one thing I dislike about Launchpad
[07:17] <persia> Does LP not provide a place to download project binaries?  I thought I just couldn't find it.
[07:17] <Simon80> heh, there IS no upstream source to obtain launchpad from
[07:17] <Simon80> if one thinks about it that way
[07:18] <beuno> quick question, is there another "big" upstream to Ubuntu other then: Debian, Gnome, KDE and Xorg?
[07:18] <LaserJock> persia: not that I know of
[07:18] <LaserJock> beuno: Linux?
[07:18] <beuno> LaserJock: as in "kernel"?
[07:18] <LaserJock> yeah
[07:18] <LaserJock> persia: it's planned to have project homepages and mailing lists
[07:19] <LaserJock> that should clear things up I think
[07:19] <beuno> LaserJock: that would seem like a bug upstream, yes, can you think of any other
[07:19] <persia> LaserJock: Thanks for saving me the effort.  I like planned.  I'd like it more if I could actually read the blueprints instead of just diffs when they are updated :)
[07:19] <LaserJock> hehe
[07:19] <LaserJock> I tried to get access to the wiki
[07:20] <LaserJock> just too much "super secret" stuff I guess ;-)
[07:20] <jsgotangco> beuno: GNU :-)
[07:20] <beuno> jsgotangco: Ubuntu downloads packages straight from GNU?
[07:20] <TheMuso> Devel was updated more recently than falcon-2.
[07:20] <jsgotangco> beuno: well if you want a super upstream that is
[07:21] <persia> LaserJock: What I don't understand is why external parties are sent diffs.  I'd rather not get anyting other than whiteboard updates than diffs to an original I can't see, which only gives me the full picture over time.
[07:21] <LaserJock> beuno: well, most packages come from Debian regardless
[07:21] <jsgotangco> yeah
[07:21] <LaserJock> persia: because they didn't know that was happening ;-)
[07:21] <persia> beuno: The build-chain is often taken straight from upstream, so yes.
[07:21] <beuno> I'm looking from places Ubuntu actually downloads them, not "origin"
[07:21] <beuno> python?
[07:21] <LaserJock> Debian
[07:22] <jsgotangco> i can think toolchain
[07:22] <LaserJock> even then
[07:22] <LaserJock> it depends on the release
[07:22] <LaserJock> sometimes we're ahead of Debian more than other times
[07:23] <beuno> maybe this helps, I'm trying to put together similar to this:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Debian-package-cycle.png
[07:25] <minghua> beuno: what do you mean by "download"?  all packages are _uploaded_ by maintainers
[07:25] <beuno> minghua: right, as in what comes down to Ubuntu
[07:26] <LaserJock> I'm out for tonight
[07:26] <LaserJock> goodnight everybody
[07:26] <persia> Night LaserJock
[07:26] <minghua> good night
[07:36] <TheMuso> ...yet its not updated to use deps in feisty/gutsy...
[07:37] <ASCIIGirl> persia, ping :)
[07:37] <persia> ASCK
[07:37] <persia> ASCIIGirl: Hello.
[07:38] <Fujitsu> Yay, it seems I have sbuild+schroot+LVM working.
[07:38] <persia> Fujitsu: Congrats.
[07:38] <Fujitsu> It turns out that the only problem with my previous setup was it not mounting my LUKSed home directory.
[07:38] <Fujitsu> And that caused it to go up in flames and generally diep.
[07:38] <Fujitsu> *die
[07:39] <TheMuso> Fujitsu: LUKSed?
[07:39] <Fujitsu> TheMuso: On a volume encrypted with LUKS.
[07:39] <TheMuso> Oh.
[07:43] <persia> Fujitsu: Careful of sbuild.  I've had trouble with 0.54.
[07:44] <Fujitsu> It's not unmounting the snapshot because of processes still run. The last upload supposedly fixes that.
[07:44] <persia> Fujitsu: That's schroot.  Schroot is good crack.
[07:44] <Fujitsu> But I guess it won't have published yet.
[07:44] <Fujitsu> Heheh.
[07:47] <Lutin> persia: np, feel free to merge uqm
[07:47] <imbrandon> ello all
[07:47] <TheMuso> Well its currently building on all but ia64.
[07:47] <persia> Fujitsu: The workaround is to use sudo kill -9 `lsof | awk ' /schroot/ { print $2 }'  | uniq`
[07:47] <TheMuso> Hey imbrandon.
[07:47] <nixternal> persia: I found another issue with the new plucker
[07:47] <persia> Lutin: Thanks.  I just saw your name on DaD, and wanted to check.
[07:47] <imbrandon> moins TheMuso 
[07:47] <nixternal> it requires libhttp which isn't in the repos
[07:48] <Lutin> persia: the name just changed :)
[07:48] <persia> nixternal: Ah.  This is deep (and requires REVU), or shallow, and only requires copying a couple files?
[07:48] <nixternal> 1 file really
[07:48] <nixternal> http.h
[07:49] <persia> nixternal: Presumably, it depends on having http.c as well, and so on, no?
[07:51] <persia> nixternal: Also, do you know which libhttp?  I see several when searching with Google.
[07:52] <nixternal> http://www.softorchestra.com/downloads/
[07:52] <nixternal> it is in the README located in parser/c++/
[07:52] <nixternal> I copied the files over to /usr/include
[07:52] <nixternal> I am going to do a quick dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot to see how it goes
[07:53] <nixternal> if it goes through, then a quick libhttp package shouldn't be to painful
[07:53] <persia> Seems easy.  Is the "LEAVE ME ALONE" license DFSG-free?
[07:54] <StevenK> persia: GPL v2 only, and don't ask me anything
[07:56] <StevenK> Hah
[07:56] <StevenK> I'm making a joke about the 'leave me alone' license. :-P
[07:57] <nixternal> persia: well it doesn't seem to be using a license of any type
[07:57] <persia> StevenK: I'm looking at http://pastebin.ca/504649
[07:57] <nixternal> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/22107/
[07:57] <nixternal> persia: ^^
[07:57] <persia> nixternal: That's a license., just a strange one.
[07:58] <nixternal> lol
[08:06] <persia> nixternal: Comparing with http://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines, I think it's safe, as long as you have a good enough debian/copyright.
[08:13] <tsmithe> any DDs available to sponsor my package at http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/w/wired ?
[08:13] <nixternal> wo0t
[08:13] <nixternal> the new plucker closes at least 1 bug on malone
[08:14] <persia> nixternal: I can open more if you want a longer changelog :)
[08:14] <nixternal> no thank you
[08:14] <nixternal> my lord...the build deps got nasty
[08:15] <man-di_> tsmithe: hello
[08:16] <man-di_> tsmithe: did you pinged me for sponsoring?
[08:16] <tsmithe> man-di_, yup :)
[08:16] <man-di_> tsmithe: please mail to me konqueror@gmx.de, then I can look into it later
[08:16] <tsmithe> thanks muchly :)
[08:16] <man-di_> later as in "in some hours"
[08:17] <tsmithe> i don't care - i gotta go to school soon ;)
[08:17] <ASCIIGirl> anibal, :)
[08:17] <anibal> ASCIIGirl, :)
[08:20] <beuno> persia: is there anywhere I can read on what the criteria for the "updates" repo is?
[08:22] <persia> beuno: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/SRU (use `apt-cache madison packagename` to decide.  Also, asking generally will often get a faster response than asking a single person.  Especially because I'm not an expert with SRU's :)
[08:23] <beuno> persia: I agree, but since you've answered all my questions up to know, I thought, "why not"  :D
[08:23] <beuno> thanks a bunch
[08:23] <persia> beuno: :)
[08:24] <persia> Is anyone both good with python and http and willing to solve an issue for me?
[08:24] <Fujitsu_> Gr, I don't like schroot taking down my kernel with it.
[08:25] <beuno> persia: maybe I can help, what's your problem?
[08:26] <persia> beuno: webboard.  Specifically, webboard 0.2.1-0ubuntu3 doesn't work in gutsy.  I applied a patch for 0.2.1-0ubuntu4 which appeared to do the right thing, but it doesn't work either.  I don't really know python, so I'm not sure how to fix it.
[08:27] <beuno> persia: lemme download it, what's the bug?
[08:28] <persia> beuno: I haven't filed a bug yet :)  If you are making progress, please open one.  If you don't make progress, let me know, and I'll open one.
[08:29] <beuno> persia: oh, I haven't got gutsy installed here, thought I might be able to take a peak at it from Feisty, I'll dl it tomorrow and try it from Gutsy if you like  :D
[08:30] <persia> beuno: Great.  Thanks.
[08:41] <dholbach> good morning
[08:43] <TheMuso> Heya dholbach.
[08:43] <elkbuntu> hey dholbach
[08:44] <Hobbsee> hi dholbach 
[08:45] <dholbach> hey TheMuso, hey elkbuntu, hey Hobbsee
[08:48] <Hobbsee> :)
[08:49] <dholbach> how's it going?
[08:49] <dholbach> TheMuso: thanks for the gnome-speech merge - do we have to do a couple of rebuilds now?
[08:49] <dholbach> TheMuso: or it might have to go through binary NEW first
[08:54] <TheMuso> dholbach: Binary new first, but once its through, I can do the updates for the packages that depend on it.
[08:56] <dholbach> TheMuso: thanks a lot
[08:56] <TheMuso> dholbach: np.
[08:59] <dholbach> who of you would be interested in doing mentoring?
[09:00] <dholbach> it'd be nice to have some mentors available once I announce the new mentoring process
[09:00] <Hobbsee> depends what it entails
[09:01] <persia> dholbach: I'm up for it.
[09:01] <TheMuso> dholbach: Sure. I am sorta mentoring a couple of people now.
[09:01] <dholbach> from what I experienced until now, people send you a mail saying: "I want to contribute, I love Ubuntu, I've been doing some C++ until now. Where do I get started?"
[09:02] <persia> I've gotten a couple "I see your name in Launchpad.  Can you help me help out?"
[09:02] <dholbach> so if you're mentoring somebody it'd be nice if you had some easy tasks for the contributor at hand, some wiki links, if you did some reviews for her/him every now and then and so on
[09:03] <dholbach> we've been quite bad at tracking progress, so the reception would ask back every now and then how it's going
[09:03] <dholbach> if you're unsure, better only offer one or two mentoring slots in the beginning and go from there
[09:04] <dholbach> the good thing about the new mentoring process is that we will try this dedicated thing, so people don't have to cope with millions of contributors and take care of them properly
[09:04] <dholbach> ... let's see how that goes :-)
[09:04] <persia> dholbach: Could we submit names of current people?  I'd like to start with some retroactive tracking.
[09:05] <dholbach> persia: sure - just give me the launchpad id
[09:05] <RAOF>  /msg ubotu automatix
[09:06] <RAOF> Stupid space key!
[09:06] <dholbach> TheMuso, persia: should I add you both with 2 mentoring slots available?
[09:06] <TheMuso> dholbach: Yes pleae, although these are likely to e taken up by ubuntustudio people, which I would actually prefer.
[09:06] <TheMuso> please
[09:06] <persia> dholbach: stijn-polfliet, mrcheatr, and I have one slot free.
[09:07] <dholbach> interesting
[09:07] <dholbach> stijn-polfliet mailed me too :)
[09:07] <persia> dholbach: Very motivated, but very unfamiliar with Ubuntu.
[09:08] <dholbach> TheMuso: do you have LP IDs of the people you mentor already?
[09:11] <nixternal> OK, Plucker is now happy...some more tweaking as I would like to get the documentation installed and working as well
[09:11] <nixternal> so I need to get libhttp packaged and up'd to Debian, then sync it, then die
[09:11] <persia> nixternal: Congratulations.  Hurrah!
[09:11] <TheMuso> dholbach: I don't really mentor anybody from ubuntustudio yet, as they haven't really got back into packaging, but probably AstralJava luisbg
[09:11] <TheMuso> are the two I'd start with
[09:11] <nixternal> persia: it actually works quite well now
[09:11] <persia> nixternal: And I presume it looks nice as well :)
[09:11] <nixternal> I have cleaned up debian, recreated an old patch (now there are only 3 patches instead of like 10)
[09:11] <nixternal> persia: making it look nice will be the last thing
[09:11] <dholbach> TheMuso: ok, I added them to the list, so your 2 slots are taken
[09:11] <nixternal> actually...I am making it look nice little by little
[09:11] <TheMuso> dholbach: Great, thanks.
[09:11] <nixternal> remove something, test it..if it works great, if not put it back
[09:14] <nixternal> man, Spider works now... --filter= works now
[09:17] <persia> Even dead upstreams sometimes have useful code.
[09:20] <nixternal> persia: the dead upstream is just that 1.9.0 patch applied it seems
[09:20] <nixternal> and the need for the silly <http.h> all of a sudden
[09:21] <nixternal> oh, that is because 1.9.0 has C++ parser now and not just Python and Perl
[09:21] <persia> nixternal: Doesn't surprise me.  I've seen a couple dead upstreams that have three or four patches applied from the bugtracker or mailing list, but no plans for release or real work.
[09:21] <nixternal> that's why
[09:21] <nixternal> now the only bug to fix with it is the documentation
[09:21] <nixternal> I am close with it, as I just watched it build
[09:22] <nixternal> so with libhttp, it will pretty much be a ./configure && make && make install && cp *.h /usr/include
[09:24] <persia> nixternal: You'll want to check the library packaging guidelines: you need both libhttp# (to match the soname) and libhttp-dev (with .h and -a) binaries built from your source.
[09:24] <nixternal> yup
[09:24] <nixternal> that should be a fun one
[09:25] <persia> nixternal: It's a simple library, so probably a good intoduction to library packaging :)
[09:25] <nixternal> that is what I am hoping
[09:31] <persia> What is the best practice if I want to remove all Ubuntu changes from a package that isn't being merged?  Should I just upload a new version and put "fakesync from Debian, dropping Ubuntu changes" in the changelog?  This is for uqm-content, which changes become irrelevant with new contents in uqm pulled from upstream.
[09:31] <dholbach> why can't you ask for a normal sync?
[09:32] <persia> dholbach: The current ubuntu version is higher than the current debian version (and was also in feisty).
[09:33] <dholbach> ah right - I'd use the debian packaging then and add a higher version number (in a new changelog entry)
[09:33] <persia> dholbach: Right.  But is there a standard for the changelog entry, or is the above sufficient?
[09:34] <dholbach> sufficient, you could mention that you use the Debian packaging and maybe  debuild -S -v0.0  or something so all the old debian entries appear in the changes file
[09:37] <persia> dholbach: OK.  Thanks.  That's a huge changes file (>2K).
[09:38] <dholbach> Ok, then just a short notice about using the Debian packaging is fine.
[09:39] <crimsun> yep, noting the fakesync is good.
[09:46] <nixternal> g'nite all
[09:46] <nixternal> thanks persia for your help today/tonight/this morning :)
[09:46] <nixternal> we covered all times
[09:47] <persia> night nixternal
[09:56] <crimsun> where should I redirect mentor requests?
[09:56] <crimsun> [for those who have emailed me directly] 
[10:10] <crimsun> ok, so no place to redirect mentor requests yet?
[10:10] <imbrandon> hrm
[10:10] <imbrandon> for now you can send them to me and i'll find somewhere to get a list going of
[10:10] <imbrandon> mentors/mentorees
[10:11] <imbrandon> if you want crimsun 
[10:11] <dholbach> crimsun, imbrandon: send them to highvoltage or me
[10:11] <crimsun> Rationale: I'll only be online intermittently for the next 3 years beginning 9 July, so I wouldn't make a good mentor.
[10:11] <dholbach> we'll work something out using the reception-data thing
[10:12] <dholbach> once we added some people who do mentoring to the list, I'll change the documentation and announce it
[10:12] <crimsun> dholbach: ok, I'll continue to send them to you ande remove myself from the list, then.
[10:12] <dholbach> crimsun: I'll purge the current MOTU/Mentors list quite soon anyway
[10:12] <TheMuso> crimsun: Wow dude. Sounds like a big project is coming your way.
[10:13] <dholbach> gpocentek, slomo, raphink, Toadstool: you're listed on MOTU/Mentors - would you mind if I added you with two mentoring slots each to the mentoring-reception-list?
[10:14] <raphink> what does that imply exactly dholbach?
[10:14] <crimsun> TheMuso: I'll be rotating through the EU, India, and Russia AFAIK, so I'll have limited access.
[10:14] <imbrandon> dholbach, i can take one slot, dont think i have time for two 
[10:15] <imbrandon> atm
[10:15] <dholbach> raphink: that if somebody asks for a mentor that we might forward his request to you and check back every now and then and see how that goes
[10:15] <superm1> imbrandon, could you stop in -mythtv for a min?  
[10:15] <imbrandon> superm1, sure
[10:16] <dholbach> raphink: just check the conversation we had here two hours ago for a reference
[10:16] <highvoltage> imbrandon: what's your LP name?
[10:17] <dholbach> imbrandon
[10:17] <dholbach> hey stijn_pol
[10:17] <stijn_pol> hi!
[10:17] <stijn_pol> If have a :s question
[10:18] <imbrandon> highvoltage, imbrandon
[10:18] <highvoltage> ok
[10:18] <imbrandon> imbrandon@kubuntu.org www.imbrandon.com https://launchpad.net/~imbrandon http://wiki.ubuntu.com/imbrandon
[10:18] <imbrandon> hehe :)
[10:19] <Hobbsee> heh
[10:19] <stijn_pol> While reading https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebianMaintainerField I decided I needed to change maintainer to UbuntuMOTUDevelopers<ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com>(The package I am changing is in universe). But It is not so clear what I should do with original maintainer. Just make an extra line with Debian-Maintainer: ... ??
[10:19] <imbrandon> i have some other wiki pages too like on debian.org and gnusolaris.org :)
[10:19] <dholbach> stijn_pol: use XSBC-Original-Maintainer
[10:20] <Hobbsee> :)
[10:24] <stijn_pol> dholbach: So I have this:
[10:24] <stijn_pol> Maintainer: Ubuntu MOTU Developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com>
[10:24] <stijn_pol> XSBC-Original-Maintainer: Sander Marechal <s.marechal@jejik.com>
[10:24] <stijn_pol> in control file. What should I write in changelog? something like: Changed maintainer field
[10:25] <dholbach> stijn_pol: exactly
[10:25] <stijn_pol> Allright! My first patch is almost there!
[10:25] <dholbach> rock and roll!
[10:25] <dholbach> :-)
[10:27] <Hobbsee> oh blergh.
[10:28] <Hobbsee> i'm being mentioned in that mailing list, so i'm probably now goign to have to read it all.
[10:30] <pochu> Hobbsee: motu-council?
[10:30] <Hobbsee> pochu: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/sounder/2007-May/thread.html
[10:30] <Hobbsee> from https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/sounder/2007-May/010269.html
[10:30] <Hobbsee> onwards
[10:31] <jmg_> Hobbsee: hehe
[10:33] <jmg_> Hobbsee: great letter
[10:33] <jmg_> i agree
[10:33] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: did
[10:33] <jmg_> oh
[10:33] <jmg_> sorry
[10:34] <elkbuntu> hehe, nixternal was just saying how awesome you are :)
[10:34] <jmg_> Hobbsee, elkbuntu, i have a video project i am planning, i want to know if you think i am being sexist
[10:35] <elkbuntu> oh?
[10:35] <jmg_> it consists of having someone try to give out ubuntu cds to women and strike up a conversation
[10:35] <jmg_> and videoing the results
[10:35] <gpocentek> hi all
[10:35] <Hobbsee> try to microsoft employees. that's fun too
[10:35] <Hobbsee> hi gpocentek 
[10:35] <elkbuntu> the inevitable question: why just women?
[10:36] <gpocentek> dholbach: I think I won't have time for mentoring, at least during gutsy development
[10:36] <gpocentek> hello Hobbsee 
[10:36] <dholbach> gpocentek: alright - best to remove you from that page then
[10:36] <gpocentek> dholbach: yep
[10:36] <jmg_> elkbuntu: to demonstrate the bias 
[10:37] <elkbuntu> how is that going to achieve that?
[10:37] <jmg_> elkbuntu: by documenting the humiliation
[10:37] <gnomefreak> whne you use apt-cache rdepends what does the | infront of them mean?
[10:37] <elkbuntu> i dont get how it will do that
[10:37] <elkbuntu> afk, dinner
[10:38] <jmg> elkbuntu: maybe you will ahve to wait and see
[10:38] <gpocentek> gnomefreak: IIRC it stands for "or"
[10:38] <jmg> gpocentek: that would make sense
[10:38] <gnomefreak> that could be good. thank you
[10:44] <crimsun> gnomefreak: be careful with rdepends
[10:45] <crimsun> and likewise, with depends
[10:45] <gnomefreak> im just building them to satisfy the firefox depends i was just wondering if the ones with the | were important
[10:46] <crimsun> [note that rdepends will include both Recommends and Suggests in its list] 
[10:47] <gnomefreak> yeah i noticed that
[10:47] <imbrandon> wow really
[10:47] <imbrandon> that sucks
[10:47] <crimsun> and alternates are always important, else they shouldn't be in debian/control :-)
[10:48] <gnomefreak> im figuring out why ff is one of those packages that dont get backported
[10:54] <dholbach> crimsun: you seem to get a lot of mentoring requests - does a wiki page still say that people should contact you for mentoring or something?
[11:06] <crimsun> dholbach: I removed myself about an hour ago.
[11:07] <dholbach> crimsun: ok, just wondered if there was another place you were still mentioned as mentoring contact or something
[11:07] <crimsun> I'm away from my main inbox, but later this morning I'll go back through it and send out similar CCs so that the prospectives don't get lost in the cracks.
[11:08] <crimsun> probably a half-dozen or so of those
[11:09] <Hobbsee> yay, finally read the whole thing :)
[11:10] <crimsun> Hobbsee is going to have fun with ALSA. :-)
[11:10] <dholbach> crimsun: thanks a lot
[11:10] <Hobbsee> crimsun: hah.  no thanks.
[11:12] <TheMuso> crimsun: Seriously, w ho will work on alsa?
[11:12] <TheMuso> s/w ho/who/
[11:12] <gnomefreak> isnt there a alsa team/sound team?
[11:13] <crimsun> the alsa team/sound team effectively has been me.
[11:14] <crimsun> TheMuso: from gutsy forward, the bugs will be much more manageable, as we'll be tracking upstream ALSA and not "attempt to fix as many bugs as possible"
[11:14] <TheMuso> crimsun: Right.
[11:15] <crimsun> in that sense, it'll be much more straightforward to push and pull from ALSA's bug tracker, Mantis
[11:15] <TheMuso> Right.
[11:17] <crimsun> for the past couple days I've been hacking Toby's asoundconf-gtk; so far I've extended it to use Qt3 and fixed some bugs in his GTK+2 set.  My goal is to wrap all the known-working asoundrcs into a shipped database that we allow the user to select (via checkbox, presented per-driver so only the relevant options appear).
[11:18] <TheMuso> Right.
[11:18] <TheMuso> How easy will it be to add new asoundrcs?
[11:18] <crimsun> from upstream (where upstream in this sense is the group working in #alsa) or..?
[11:20] <crimsun> I haven't gotten to the hook bit in my spec; I intend it to query the available list to check for new ones, both confirmed and in-progress.
[11:24] <TheMuso> Ok.
[11:26] <crimsun> I debated using hal, but it apparently doesn't expose enough codec info
[11:26] <crimsun> sigh, the utter inanity of it all.
[11:28] <TheMuso> Would it be too much work get hal to expose the info needed?
[11:29] <crimsun> at this point I'm not sure it's worth it.
[11:29] <TheMuso> Ah ok
[11:29] <TheMuso> .c
[11:49] <pschulz01> TheMuso: ping
[11:49] <TheMuso> pschulz01: You sent me a contentless ping.  This is a contentless pong.  Please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I am around.
[11:49] <pschulz01> TheMuso: hehe... can we continue our discussion re. packaging?
[11:49] <TheMuso> pschulz01: Sure.
[11:50] <Hobbsee> hi pschulz01 
[11:51] <pschulz01> TheMuso: I'm going to take this slowly (I hope you don't mind) as I want to understand what exactly is going on..
[11:51] <pschulz01> Hobbsee: Howdy.
[11:51] <TheMuso> pschulz01: Sure.
[11:52] <elkbuntu> micahcowan, LAWL!
[11:52] <pschulz01> 1. I have a package that built using GNU autotools..
[11:52] <micahcowan> elkbuntu, which? :)
[11:52] <elkbuntu> micahcowan, second
[11:52] <micahcowan> "Prove it?"
[11:52] <TheMuso> pschulz01: Right.
[11:52] <elkbuntu> yeah
[11:52] <dholbach> Lutin: you overwrote the cairo-clock package - did you talk to Mirco Mller (Ubuntu maintainer) about that?
[11:53] <dholbach> Lutin: (he's upstream for it as well)
[11:53] <pschulz01> 1a. It's actually source from a git archive..
[11:54] <elkbuntu> micahcowan, i was tempted to respond with: "Thank You for emailing Melissa. Your email is very important to her..." but refrained ;)
[11:54] <micahcowan> :)
[11:55] <micahcowan> I'm glad that you ignored the underlying attitude, and addressed the question directly. You did a great job of doing that, too.
[11:55] <micahcowan> I, OTOH, couldn't resist. :)
[11:58] <pschulz01> TheMuso: .. so far so good.
[11:59] <pschulz01> .. but there is no sign of this elusive 'tmp' directory, as I would now like to split the build up into separate packages.
[12:00] <pschulz01> Everything has gone into the first package directory.
[12:01] <TheMuso> pschulz01: You have to modify debian/rules to install into debian/tmp
[12:02] <pschulz01> TheMuso: Ok.. what would that be?
[12:04] <pschulz01> TheMuso: Do I manually set DESTDIR?
[12:05] <TheMuso> pschulz01: You set DESTDIR yes
[12:05] <TheMuso> SO something like $(CURDIR)/debian/tmp
[12:07] <pschulz01> TheMuso: Trying..
[12:09] <PriceChild> Hey, one of the things persia asked me to do was "In the man page, please differentiate - by using \- and \(hy " But I don't understand what this is referring to... man page here: http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/gizmod-0705221605/gizmod-3.1/debian/gizmod.1
[12:15] <pschulz01> TheMuso: Trying: DESTDIR=$(CURDIR)/debian/tmp ./configure --prefix=/usr
[12:15] <pschulz01> Seemed to expand correctly..
[12:16] <TheMuso> pschulz01: Its better to change the DESTDIR in the install target.
[12:16] <TheMuso> And nowhere else should you mention DESTDIR.
[12:18] <pschulz01> TheMuso: You would mean change the lint that says.. "	$(MAKE) DESTDIR=$(CURDIR)/debian/tpserver-cpp install"
[12:18] <raphink> dholbach: did I answer you this morning?
[12:18] <pschulz01> TheMuso: (how does your screen reader cope with code?)
[12:18] <dholbach> raphink: you said:      <raphink> what does that imply exactly dholbach?
[12:18] <TheMuso> pschulz01: FIne. Yes thats the line you should change.
[12:18] <raphink> hehe
[12:19] <raphink> dholbach: ok, I signed up to be a mentor because I want to help people who need guidance
[12:19] <raphink> now from my experience, a lot of people write to me asking what they could do
[12:19] <raphink> which is not very easy to answer
[12:19] <pschulz01> TheMuso: You are right.. that didn't previous attempt didn't work :-)
[12:19] <dholbach> raphink: would you take on two contributors and the reception would assign you when we get requests?
[12:19] <raphink> I kind of expected people asking how they could package or so
[12:19] <dholbach> raphink: we'll make sure that you don't get more than you can handle
[12:19] <raphink> ok
[12:20] <dholbach> raphink: we all agreed that it might be best to have a few small tasks at hand, which you can walk them through
[12:20] <raphink> dholbach: I don't have a lot of time lately, but when I get requests, I make my best to deal with them
[12:20] <dholbach> raphink: so if it's a package update or a simple merge or an easy bug, that's cool
[12:20] <raphink> I currently have 2 or 3o people who have asked me to mentor them
[12:20] <dholbach> raphink: if you get to many requests ask them to mail ~motu-mentoring-reception
[12:20] <raphink> but they haven't really stated what they wnated to be doing 
[12:21] <dholbach> raphink: if they don't know what to do, best to give them an easy task
[12:21] <raphink> hmmm ok
[12:21] <dholbach> raphink: so they see that it's not all rocket science
[12:21] <raphink> that's an option
[12:21] <raphink> hehe ;)
[12:21] <raphink> yep
[12:21] <raphink> so a simple merge or so
[12:21] <dholbach> great, I'll write some documentation on that as we go
[12:21] <dholbach> right
[12:21] <raphink> ok
[12:21] <dholbach> raphink: who are you mentoring at the moment? can you give me the LP IDs of them, so I'll add them to the list
[12:22] <cbx33> hey peoples
[12:22] <raphink> hmm sure let me find them
[12:22] <dholbach> we will ping you back like every 4 weeks on them, so we can see if they make progress or left the process
[12:22] <cbx33> anyone here a network guru
[12:22] <dholbach> hey cbx33
[12:22] <cbx33> I'm trying to demonstrate to people how easy arp poisoning is
[12:22] <cbx33> it's working in cain and abel in a VM....but I really want to use ettercap
[12:23] <cbx33> however when I setup poisoning between the client and the gateway, the client just loses internet connection
[12:23] <cbx33> anyone know why
[12:23] <cbx33> in the man page it said it's because it possibly doesn't have the right Gateway set in thekernel routing
[12:23] <cbx33> but it does seem to....
[12:23] <cbx33> it's frustrating that windows is doing it right and linux can't do it
[12:32] <pschulz01> TheMuso: Ok.. I now have a populated 'debian/tmp' directory... 
[12:33] <pschulz01> TheMuso: Reading the man page can sometime be useful. I think I can join the dots now.
[12:33] <TheMuso> pschulz01: Great.
[12:34] <pschulz01> TheMuso: Need the option --sourcedir=debian/tmp
[12:34] <TheMuso> pschulz01: No.
[12:34] <pschulz01> ?
[12:34] <TheMuso> In the .install files, you simply put debian/tmp/ at the beginning of each line.
[12:34] <TheMuso> so debian/tmp/usr/bin/command
[12:34] <TheMuso> debian/tmp/usr/lib/liblibrary.so.* etc.
[12:35] <pschulz01> TheMuso: Is that set in stone? I'd rather put the argument in the rules file.
[12:35] <gnomefreak> when a package is auto merged it doesnt leave a changelog entry does it?
[12:37] <Fujitsu> gnomefreak: autosynced, you mean?
[12:37] <gnomefreak> yeah
[12:37] <Fujitsu> Nothing automerges.
[12:37] <Fujitsu> It's synced, so no.
[12:37] <gnomefreak> were we autosyncing for dapper?
[12:37] <Fujitsu> It can be seen on the LP page for the source package, though.
[12:38] <Fujitsu> Yes, but we only migrated to Launchpad for package management around 2006/02, so anything before then is untrustworthy.
[12:38] <TheMuso> pschulz01: Thats the way the vast majority of packages do it.
[12:38] <gnomefreak> ok ty
[12:38] <TheMuso> afaik anyway
[12:41] <pschulz01> TheMuso: I'm going to try with the argument. It means that it will be easier to discuss how to split up the package with upstream... who won't care about the 'debian/tmp'
[12:42] <pschulz01> TheMuso: Thank you very much for your help :-)
[12:43] <TheMuso> pschulz01: np.
[12:45] <pschulz01> TheMuso: ttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/PaulSchulz <-- People I Owe Beers/Pizza/Yiros Too
[12:45] <TheMuso> heh
[12:50] <pschulz01> TheMuso: Wahoo! That worked.
[12:51] <TheMuso> pschulz01: Great.
[12:53] <StevenK> pschulz01: I have a list like that, it just isn't public. :-)
[12:53] <pschulz01> StevenK: If mine get's any longer, I might have to take it down as the bank might consider it a liability.
[12:54] <StevenK> Muahaha
[01:08] <pschulz01> back in a little while.. 
[01:11] <dholbach> gpocentek: you might want to remove the Mentors link from your personal wiki page :)
[01:12] <gpocentek> dholbach: yep, I should update this page too
[01:12] <dholbach> MOTU/Mentoring is online now
[01:12] <dholbach> I'll announce it soon
[01:13] <gpocentek> cool
[01:16] <Lutin> dholbach: I didn't poke him as I saw he did upload to debian, I thought it was ok. any issues with it ?
[01:18] <dholbach> Lutin: who is 'he' in that case?
[01:18] <dholbach> Lutin: ah ok, seems he did the initial upload
[01:19] <dholbach> Lutin: there are quite a bunch of code changes in the .diff.gz
[01:19] <Lutin> dholbach: Mirco Mller
[01:19] <dholbach> Lutin: I just wondered if you had had any conversation with him
[01:19] <dholbach> Lutin: he didn't do the last upload (Bart Martens)
[01:19] <dholbach> Lutin: as long as he knows what's going on, I'm happy
[01:19] <Lutin> dholbach: ok
[01:20] <dholbach> Lutin: just wanted to make sure we don't overwrite packages like that (it got my attention since I talked to him and helped him prepare that package)
[01:22] <jussi01> ok, who are cononical employees here?
[01:22] <jussi01> canonical even
[01:22] <dholbach> jussi01: what do you need?
[01:23] <jussi01> dholbach: I have a random sort of question, can I pm for a moment?
[01:23] <dholbach> sure
[01:24] <Lutin> dholbach: brw, it seems that code change (not packaging changes) were done by Mirco himself
[01:24] <Lutin> btw*
[01:25] <dholbach> Lutin: aha... ok
[01:25] <dholbach> Lutin: I'm happy with it then
[01:25] <dholbach> Lutin: thanks for looking into it
[01:28] <jussi01> thanks dholbach
[01:28] <Lutin> dholbach: np
[01:39] <illovae> hello
[01:39] <illovae> excuse me i a searching an admin of revu.tauware.de ?
[01:40] <illovae> is it the good channel for this request please ?
[01:40] <Baby> isn't there an email address?
[01:40] <Fujitsu> This is the right channel.
[01:40] <backblue> hi, when i run 'pbuild build file.dsc' i get always, 'hostname: Unknown host', and after it breaks, anyone knows what it means?
[01:42] <jussi01> backblue: is it not pbuilder build file.dsc ?
[01:42] <siretart> illovae: how can I help you?
[01:42] <backblue> jussi01: yes, my mistake.
[01:42] <backblue> anyway i fix it, thanks anyway.
[01:42] <jussi01> :D
[01:42] <illovae> hello siretart 
[01:43] <illovae> i am a new in revu, and few days ago i've uploaded a package in revu with dput revu *_source.changes
[01:44] <illovae> i had signed too my packages
[01:44] <illovae> -s
[01:44] <illovae> but it seem blocked here
[01:44] <illovae> ftp://revu.tauware.de/incoming > it is larsbiff
[01:44] <illovae> according to gpocentek , the package isn't block by an human intervention
[01:44] <illovae> is it anything you can do ? or is normal please ?
[01:45] <illovae> (and sorry for my bad english, but it is not my native language :) )
[01:45] <siretart> gpg: Can't check signature: public key not found
[01:45] <siretart> Validation FAILED!!
[01:45] <Fujitsu> I'm not sure why it was rejected, but it was probably because you weren't on the REVU keyring at the time.
[01:45] <Fujitsu> Right.
[01:45] <StevenK> illovae: Add yourself to  http://tinyurl.com/fgpgy to upload to REVU
[01:45] <siretart> illovae: did you join ubuntu-universe-contributors?
[01:47] <illovae> siretart: erf no... okay sorry, i join the team
[01:47] <illovae> i'm very sorry
[01:47] <Hobbsee> it's no problem - it just means that your uploads will get rejected :P
[01:47] <siretart> illovae: no need to be sorry. just join the team and either ping me again to resync the keyring or wait another day
[01:48] <siretart> if someone has a bit time to think about how to manage packages in bzr, please comment on http://wiki.tauware.de/misc:vcs-packaging
[01:49] <illovae> Hobbsee: ^^"
[01:50] <Hobbsee> siretart: revu packages in bzr, you mean?
[01:50] <illovae> siretart: okay thank you i have already sufficiently annoyed you, i'll wait an another day :)
[01:50] <illovae> thank you all have a nice day :
[01:51] <siretart> Hobbsee: packages in bzr in general. I'm encouraging the contributors to maintain the packages in bzr to further faciliate reviewing
[01:51] <Hobbsee> ah right
[01:51] <siretart> well, at least the suggestion come up, and I'm currently experimenting what actually is easier
[01:53] <Adri2000> hmm siretart, did you take a look at my patch for revu?
[01:54] <siretart> Adri2000: duh, sorry, I forgot :( - where was the patch again?
[01:54] <Adri2000> http://adrishost.homeip.net/~adri2000/ubuntu/revu-fix-for-html-tags-in-comments.patch
[01:55] <siretart> hm. I remember there have been some issues with cgi.escape. I'd like to check with sistpoty about this
[01:55] <somerville32> Would that allow javascripts to be executed and hence allowing for CSS exploits and DoS attacks?
[01:56] <Adri2000> siretart: eh ok, that explains why "from cgi import escape" way already there but commented
[01:57] <Adri2000> somerville32: with or without the patch you mean?
[01:57] <somerville32> With the patch to allow for html tags in comments?
[01:59] <Adri2000> it doesn't allow it
[01:59] <somerville32> Most excellent.
[02:00] <StevenK> somerville32: CSS being Cross Site Scripting?
[02:00] <StevenK> somerville32: Since that is usually contracted to be XSS
[02:00] <Adri2000> somerville32: currently I think if you put an html tag in a comment, it will be interpreted. escape() replaces < > with &lt; &gt; so that a <...> isn't interpreted as an html tag, it will just be displayed like that "<...>"
[02:00] <somerville32> The C and the X are so close together :P
[02:01] <somerville32> Adri2000, Aye.
[02:01] <somerville32> Adri2000, And you propose to allow a limited set of tags? Does escape allow for exceptions?
[02:02] <somerville32> Hmm... python.com is not what I was looking for.
[02:03] <xxxxx1> morning people!
[02:04] <Adri2000> somerville32: do we need html for writing a comment in revu?
[02:05] <somerville32> Formatting can be useful in any medium.
[02:05] <ScottK> somerville32: python.org...
[02:05] <ScottK> Good $TIMEOFDAYWHEREYOUARE everyone.
[02:05] <TheMuso> Hey ScottK.
[02:06] <ScottK> Hello TheMuso.
[02:06] <StevenK> Hi ScottK
[02:06] <ScottK> Hello StevenK
[02:07] <somerville32> It is morning here and I feel very much refreshed.
[02:09] <EtienneG> hey guys
[02:09] <pochu> Hi EtienneG 
[02:10] <EtienneG> I uploaded a package a while ago using dput, but the .orig.tar.gz apparently did not get uploaded
[02:10] <pochu> to REVU?
[02:10] <EtienneG> yep
[02:10] <EtienneG> looking at dput man page, I cant see a switch that ask to include the source tarball
[02:10] <pochu> And did the other files (.dsc, .diff.gz) get uploaded?
[02:10] <EtienneG> yep, they did get there
[02:11] <EtienneG> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5104
[02:11] <xxxxx1> ScottK: hello
[02:11] <ScottK> Hello xxxxx1
[02:12] <pochu> EtienneG: was the .orig.tar.gz in the same dir as the .dsc and diff.gz whey you uploaded them?
[02:12] <EtienneG> I believe so
[02:12] <EtienneG> I can re-dput to see
[02:12] <persia> EtienneG: Was the orig.tar.gz listed in the source.changes file?
[02:12] <pochu> At least it's in the .dsc
[02:13] <EtienneG> persia, here it is
[02:13] <EtienneG> it's not there ...
[02:13] <EtienneG> I debuild -S the package, is there a particular reason why the source tarball would not be in the source.changes ?
[02:13] <persia> EtienneG: Try using `debuild -S -sa` to make sure it gets included, and re-dput.
[02:14] <StevenK> EtienneG: With debuild -S, it's up to the tools. -sa will force it, as it were.
[02:14] <EtienneG> thanks guys, doing so right away
[02:14] <StevenK> EtienneG: What's the Debian revision?
[02:15] <EtienneG> StevenK, there is none
[02:15] <persia> StevenK: I think debuild -S always fails for initial Ubuntu uploads, because -0ubuntu1 <> 1.
[02:15] <EtienneG> I use -0ubuntu1
[02:15] <StevenK> That's a Debian revision. :-)
[02:15] <EtienneG> ok!
[02:15] <StevenK> persia: Yes, sounds right.
[02:16] <EtienneG> persia, is there something to do about it ?
[02:17] <persia> EtienneG: Just always use `debuild -S -sa` when you want to include the orig.tar.gz in your package.  This practice requires more attention than the Debian process, but as long as you make the right decision, it will always work.
[02:17] <ScottK> persia: It's just fine to add Ubuntu specific changes as long as you volunteer to maintain them ... (which is probably bad in your book).
[02:18] <StevenK> It isn't debuild that makes the decision.
[02:18] <StevenK> It's dpkg, and we already fork that.
[02:19] <StevenK> More correctly, dpkg-genchanges.
[02:19] <EtienneG> here it is, re-uploaded with the orig.tar.gz
[02:19] <EtienneG> if someone have a minute to look at my bzr-gtk upload, that would be nice
[02:20] <EtienneG> right now, bzr is complaining about version mismatch systematically, it is annoying for those using gutsy
[02:20] <persia> ScottK: Depends on the package.  I already do that for a couple packages, but some Debian maintainers are happier about forks than others.  I generally don't like to make Ubuntu-specific changes that won't go back for core packages (although I'm likely to make an exception for devscripts anyway, as I want a better /usr/bin/mass-bug).
[02:20] <StevenK> EtienneG: Do you have an account with our lovely mentors? One can be yours for the cost of a pizza and a six pack of beer. :-P
[02:20] <EtienneG> StevenK, that's certainly affordable enough!
[02:21] <EtienneG> I do not plan to make a lot of upload, it's mainly just bzr-gtk for the moment
[02:22] <persia> EtienneG: Concentration is great.  Some packages need more attention, and someone who knows them well can be very useful, especially for Debian and upstream coordination.
[02:22] <Q-FUNK> StevenK: just imagine a beowolf cluster of 6-pack pizzas.
[02:23] <EtienneG> persia, I ended up with maintaining the bzr/bzrtools/bzr-gtk completely by accident ...
[02:23] <Q-FUNK> Fujitsu: :D
[02:23] <EtienneG> I am not necessarily the best person to maintain these, but someone have to do ti
[02:24] <persia> EtienneG: I understand.  One learns.  I started because my joystick didn't work with vegastrike, and I've now had three or four patches taken upstream for vegastrike, and actually understand why sound doesn't work in the current version (although I don't yet understand how to fix it).
[02:32] <TheMuso> StevenK: Lovely.
[02:32] <StevenK> TheMuso: ?
[02:34] <TheMuso> StevenK: Merging valgrind.
[02:35] <pschulz01> TheMuso: Is it possible to have separate 'conffiles' per binary package? (eg. 'debian/packagename.conffiles')
[02:35] <TheMuso> pschulz01: Yes.
[02:35] <pschulz01> Cool..
[02:36] <PriceChild> Hey persia, sorry I didn't realise I could/should use linda and lintian on the changes file from pbuilder. I've fixed all but point 5 about - and haven't asked anyone to check over copyright yet. Could you please explain point 5 to me again as I don't understand.
[02:37] <PriceChild> Thanks :)
[02:39] <ScottK> Is it ever permited to change previous debian/changelog entries?  The new spamassassin is missing the empty line between the last change and the maintainer's e-mail address and is obviously missing a return (has two changes on one line)...
[02:39] <persia> ScottK: No.  That's considered revisionist history.
[02:40] <StevenK> Some people do it.
[02:40] <persia> PriceChild: `lintian -iIv gizmod_3.1-0ubuntu1_i386.changes` will give you a full explanation (I don't know the relevant linda call), but basically, you need to tell the processor whether it is a minus sign "\-" or a hyphen "\(hy", as it gets confused.  Use minus for all the switches, and hyphen in the descriptions.
[02:40] <StevenK> Mostly, it's frowned upon.
[02:40] <StevenK> What does -I for lintian do?
[02:41] <StevenK> linda -i gives more information, -v is verbose
[02:41] <persia> StevenK: it's like -t I
[02:41] <PriceChild> persia, right i'll re check again with -iIv and try and figure out the man page :)
[02:41] <PriceChild> thanks
[02:41] <StevenK> Oh, that's right.
[02:42] <StevenK> Show checks that are Informational
[02:42] <StevenK> linda -iv -t E,W,I gizmod_3.1-0ubuntu1_i386.changes
[02:42] <persia> StevenK: Linda doesn't talk to me.  I try with `linda -f long -t E,W,X,I foo.changes`, but she always remains silent :(
[02:42] <PriceChild> persia, ah and now it tells me about the man page! :D
[02:43] <StevenK> persia: Add -v
[02:43] <ScottK> Well it doesn't cause an error with dpkg-parsechangelog, so I'll leave it.  Thanks for the advice.
[02:44] <PriceChild> persia, do you think I need to keep the XSBC-Original-Maintainer field in control as I haven't really used any of his packaging?
[02:44] <persia> StevenK: She's still quiet.  Perhaps I'm just not hitting any checks.  I'll hunt the rules.
[02:45] <StevenK> persia: Replace -v with -d
[02:45] <StevenK> Oh, actually, -vv will have her tell you she is unpacking and such
[02:46] <persia> PriceChild: Ubuntu packages must have XSBC-Original-Maintainer, unless the Maintainer field is a specific person (not a list) with an @ubuntu.com address.  You can set yourself as Original-Maintainer (or Maintainer) if you like.
[02:46] <persia> StevenK: I think she just doesn't have anything to say.
[02:46] <PriceChild> Ok cool thanks.
[02:46] <StevenK> persia: It must be because she's shy.
[02:47] <persia> StevenK: Ah.  Thanks for the explanation.  I wondered :)
[02:47] <StevenK> persia: :-)
[02:47] <Hobbsee> if most recent uploader == persia, ...
[02:48] <persia> Hobbsee: What did I do now?
[02:48] <bmm> Hi MOTU team. If anybody has the time to take a look at my package http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4751 I'll be online to respond.
[02:49] <StevenK> I think Hobbsee is quoting Linda source code. :-)
[02:49] <Hobbsee> exactly 
[02:49] <persia> StevenK: Ah I see.  I also see she has things to say about iolanguage, so I suspect Hobbsee is right.
[02:51] <StevenK> iolanguage?
[02:52] <bmm> Hey, that's my package. That is one that still needs to be done correctly.
[02:52] <persia> StevenK: bmm's package (that I don't really have time to review right now).
[02:52] <StevenK> Ah, iolanguage being a package name. Right.
[02:53] <bmm> Oh, wait, although iolanguage needs some more help and comments, one of my other packages http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5154 (ccbuild) should be ready for it's first advocates
[03:07] <bmm> ScottK: where can I find that button, count me in ;-)
[03:07] <ScottK> Sorry.  It's inside the squishy part of my head.  I don't like other people touching me there.
[03:09] <bmm> Rest assured, even my smallest finger can't reach that far into my own head ;-)
[03:10] <ScottK> bmm: You might want to borrow the LongPointyStick.
[03:10] <StevenK> That could be fatal.
[03:10] <StevenK> For both of you.
[03:11] <StevenK> Drat. valgrind FTBFS.
[03:12] <Riddell> what's the best way to turn a .tar.bz into a orig.tar.gz?
[03:13] <bmm> Riddell: I would use dh_make -f ../something.tar.gz
[03:13] <bmm> Although that will leave you with some side effects, it will generate an orig.tar.gz ;-)
[03:14] <StevenK> Riddell: bunzip2 ; gzip -9 ; mv
[03:15] <persia> Riddell: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/CommonPackagingMistakes/ChangingTheOrigTarball has a good example.
[03:18] <PriceChild> Is there any whizzo at debian/copyright who could take a look at my package http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5249 and tell me what else needs to be done please?
[03:25] <ScottK> If he'd stuck around, I'd have had a comment for him ...
[03:26] <persia> ScottK: I'll take your comment (if it's about the gizmod copyright).
[03:27] <ScottK> persia: I was just going to mention that it's considered a good practice (but not REALLY mandatory) these days to have a line at then end asserting copyright over the Debian packaging and how that packaging is licensed.
[03:27] <persia> ScottK: He put that in the middle, as the Apache license was really long.
[03:28] <ScottK> persia: I was also going to suggest he grep -i -R copyright * to make sure he got everything.  
[03:28] <ScottK> persia: OK.  I didn't see that then.  I'd suggest it get moved to the end as that's where I've always seen it.  Probably not worth another upload if the package is otherwise good.
[03:29] <persia> ScottK: I think so.  The part I couldn't help him with was about the COPYING in the root directory.  Only a very little bit of the code is actually GPL.
[03:30] <ScottK> OK.  I didn't download the whole package to look at that.  The key is to be comprehensive and make sure everything is listed.  If there's a mix of ASF and GPL code you do need to make sure nothing is to closely linked as those licenses are incompatible.
[03:33] <persia> ScottK: There are exceptions.  I'm not strong enough with copyright to say it's done, but it needs a deep review by someone who is, as it mixes Apache, GPL, and the FSF Autoconf license.
[03:33] <ScottK> OK.  I'm not that person then.
[03:34] <ScottK> persia: You've been a MOTU longer than me, you ought to be able to handle this ;-)
[03:34] <persia> Oh, yeah, and the X license :)
[03:35] <persia> ScottK: By what, 3 days?
[03:36] <ScottK> persia: 4.
[03:36] <bmm> If lintian errors with a "bad-distribution-in-changes-file gutsy" it's still ok right?
[03:36] <persia> bmm: Yes.  You can safely ignore "bad distribution" if you know you have a good distribution, and ignore all the NMU warnings.
[03:37] <bmm> persia: if I have an Original-Maintainer, which I do, right?
[03:38] <persia> bmm: Could you rephrase the question please?  I don't understand.
[03:39] <bmm> Of, that ignoring the NMU is ok, as long as you define the "Original-Maintainer:" in your control file.
[03:40] <ScottK> bmm: Unrelated.  NMU is a Debian thing.  Ubuntu doesn't use it.
[03:41] <persia> bmm: Those are actually two different things.  Even if you forget XSBC-Original-Maintainer, the NMU warnings still appear.  Separately, don't forget XSBC-Original-Maintainer :)
[03:42] <bmm> :-D I know, but they are related a bit right? Because NMU is "NonMaintainerUpload" which means that you have a different upload maintainer and original maintainer.
[03:43] <Riddell> that'll happen regardless unless you are the debian maintainer
[03:43] <persia> bmm: The NMU warnings happen when the Changed-By value (name & email of last changelog entry) doesn't match the Maintainer value.  It's different.
[03:43] <bmm> Ah, so that's it.
[03:43] <persia> Riddell: It also doesn't happen for Ubuntu maintainers (there are a couple from Ubuntu-only packages).
[03:44] <Riddell> sure
[03:48] <DarkSun88> Hi all
[03:48] <bmm> hi
[03:53] <alfredoj69> Hi everybody, my name is Alfredo and I started working to become a MOTU
[03:53] <ScottK> Hi alfredoj69
[03:54] <ScottK> Hello DarkSun88
[03:54] <DarkSun88> ScottK: Hello :)
[03:54] <alfredoj69> Hi ScottK
[03:59] <bmm> alfredoj69 cool, good luck! Get used to the question: can you look at my package? ;-)
[03:59] <alfredoj69> ooh for sure
[04:00] <alfredoj69> hopefully I can come out with some good fixes and packages
[04:02] <alfredoj69> I have a question, I am looking at a list of needc-packaging bugs
[04:03] <alfredoj69> the bugs that have Status=Confirmed is because already somebody is working on that?
[04:04] <persia> alfredoj69: When someone is working on it, it will be assigned to that person.  If a bug is not assigned, feel free to assign yourself and start work.  It's considered good practice to set the bug to "In-Progress" as well.
[04:06] <alfredoj69>  persia, thank you for the info
[04:06] <persia> alfredoj69: No problem.  Ask back here if you have trouble.
[04:09] <alfredoj69> Once I have a package ready, who  is the right person to send it to?
[04:10] <persia> alfredoj69: Look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU for information on getting review of your packages.
[04:16] <alfredoj69> persia, thanks again
[04:21] <joejaxx> Good Morning All
[04:21] <bmm> morning
[04:24] <alfredoj69> Good morning, joejaxx,bmm 
[04:25] <leonel> Heeeelllllloooooooooooooooo!
[04:26] <alfredoj69> Hola, leonel
[04:26] <leonel> eit
[04:32] <bmm> Well, gotto go again. Laters!
[04:44] <Toadstool> dholbach: unfortunately, I have been kinda swamped at work lately and I don't think I will have time to do any mentorship during the next 2 months or so. I do plan to once work gets a little less crazy.
[04:44] <Toadstool> hi everybody 
[04:44] <persia> hey Toadstool
[04:44] <dholbach> Toadstool: ok, thanks
[04:45] <Toadstool> hi persia !
[04:45] <dholbach> Toadstool: I purged MOTU/Mentors so you should get less mail about that
[04:45] <dholbach> Toadstool: let us know if you're interested in joining the mentors again :)
[04:45] <Toadstool> alright, thanks
[04:45] <Toadstool> dholbach: yep, don't worry, I'll be back ! :p
[04:45] <dholbach> hehe :)
[04:45] <xxxxx1> someone here know one good pgp keyserver software?
[04:47] <persia> dholbach: Did you mean MOTU/Mentoring?
[04:47] <dholbach> oops
[04:47] <dholbach> yes
[04:47] <Toadstool> persia: you're a MOTU now, right? congrats'
[04:47] <dholbach> narf
[04:47] <persia> Toadstool: Thanks.
[04:48] <dholbach> thanks persia
[04:48] <Toadstool> alright, got to work, I'll see you guys later, hopefully ;)
[04:48] <dholbach> seeya
[04:49] <persia> dholbach: Is there a ML for ~motu-mentoring-reception?
[04:49] <dholbach> I'm really really happy about it
[04:49] <jikanter> what is this new motuing thing dholbach?
[04:49] <dholbach> persia: no, nothing yet
[04:50] <dholbach> jikanter: mentoring :)
[04:50] <dholbach> jikanter: a new process for making it easier to become motu and to make it easier to mentor a new contributor
[04:50] <dholbach> jikanter: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring
[04:51] <joejaxx> dholbach: should i go through the contributor process?
[04:52] <joejaxx> or is it for completely new people
[04:52] <vijay2000> can anybody tell me where i can get the upstream code of clamtk
[04:52] <dholbach> joejaxx: rather for people who are really new to people, tools, processes and all that
[04:52] <joejaxx> dholbach: oh ok
[04:53] <dholbach> vijay2000: check debian/copyright of the source package
[04:53] <dholbach> vijay2000: but it should be http://clamtk.sf.net
[04:53] <dholbach> welcome vijay2000 :-)
[04:53] <vijay2000> oh and the source of clamtk resides in /usr/bin/clamtk am i right
[04:54] <vijay2000> thanks for your support
[04:54] <dholbach> vijay2000: just run     apt-get source clamtk      to get the source
[04:54] <vijay2000> i regret myself for not joining the open source a bit earlier ..i already lost 6 years of my life working with windows
[04:55] <tonyyarusso> only 6?
[04:55] <vijay2000> Reading package lists... Done
[04:55] <vijay2000> Building dependency tree... Done
[04:55] <vijay2000> E: Unable to find a source package for clamtk
[04:56] <vijay2000> this is what i get when i try to get the source
[04:56] <persia> vijay2000: Do you have a deb-src line in /etc/apt/sources.list that includes universe?
[04:57] <vijay2000> let me check
[04:57] <dholbach> you can change that in "gksu software-properties-gtk" too
[04:58] <vijay2000> you mean this line "deb-src http://in.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ dapper universe"
[05:01] <persia> vijay2000: That would be the line.  I'm not sure why else you might not be able to find the source.
[05:02] <vijay2000> got it
[05:02] <ScottK> vijay2000: There are much newer versions in later releases.  clamtk definitely could use some work.
[05:03] <vijay2000> i had that line commented
[05:03] <vijay2000> now i get this error
[05:03] <vijay2000> sh: dpkg-source: command not found
[05:03] <vijay2000> Unpack command 'dpkg-source -x clamtk_2.17-0ubuntu1.dsc' failed.
[05:03] <vijay2000> Check if the 'dpkg-dev' package is installed.
[05:03] <vijay2000> E: Child process failed
[05:04] <vijay2000> what is that
[05:04] <vijay2000> i am a new bie to linux who knows only the basics of linux
[05:04] <Nafallo> Description: Scripts to make the life of a Debian Package maintainer easier
[05:05] <vijay2000> how to install it 
[05:05] <persia> vijay2000: `aptitude show devscriots` will tell you about the package, and `sudo aptitude install devscripts` will install it.
[05:07] <vijay2000> i am learning a lot of new things today thanks guys
[05:30] <dholbach> vijay2000: is it your correct mail address in the changelog?
[05:30] <vijay2000> no 
[05:30] <vijay2000> it refers to localhost
[05:31] <dholbach> I have this in my ~/.bashrc 
[05:31] <dholbach> export DEBFULLNAME='Daniel Holbach'
[05:31] <dholbach> export DEBEMAIL='daniel.holbach@ubuntu.com'
[05:31] <vijay2000> oh let me try that
[05:31] <dholbach> if you add something similar there and run         source ~/.bashrc           and try it again you should be up and running
[05:32] <dholbach> nice: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/PackagingBasics seems to have a bunch of answers
[05:33] <dholbach> it'd be nice to have them in MOTU/FAQ or in the packaging guide somewhere
[05:36] <leonel> the problem is that I'll need a mirror  to read it ...
[05:36] <leonel> :)
[05:38] <asimon> Greetings, I have a simple package (kde-style-qtcurve) for which I use cdbs. During the build aclocal and automake are called. If I build this package with 'debuild && debuild -S -sa' I get two Makefile.in in the diff.gz. If I build it with pbuilder these Makefile.ins don't appear in the diff.gz. (both gutsy environments) Is this normal behaviour?
[05:39] <dholbach> asimon: doesn't upstream provide a tarball where Makefile.in and friends are already generated?
[05:39] <dholbach> I mean... is it really necessary to run aclocal, automake and friends during the build?
[05:39] <asimon> dholbach: They are generated, but aclocal and automake-1.9 get called by 'make' and thus 2 Makefile.ins get updated.
[05:40] <dholbach> weird, did you change the Makefile.am files or something?
[05:40] <asimon> The funny thing is they don't appear in the diff.gz when build with pbuilder although the build process seems exactly the same under pbuilder.
[05:41] <dholbach> that makes perfect sense
[05:41] <asimon> dholbach: No, I don't do any changes on the Makefiles.*
[05:41] <dholbach> do you build-depends on aclocal and/or automake?
[05:41] <dholbach> if not, they should not be in the pbuilder chroot during the build and can't be used
[05:41] <asimon> dholbach: Yes, I have to build-depend on automake-1.9, otherwise building fails because automake-1.9 isn't found.
[05:41] <vijay2000> it works
[05:42] <dholbach> vijay2000: great
[05:42] <dholbach> asimon: there must be something weird with the tarball like timestamps of Makefile.in vs timestamp of Makefile.am or something
[05:43] <dholbach> asimon: if you can't change it without lots of hassle, I'd think it's acceptable to have a diff of Makefile.in
[05:43] <asimon> dharrigan: Hmm... the timestamp of Makefile.am is older then that of Makefile.in.
[05:44] <dholbach> asimon: hm, then it must be something else
[05:44] <asimon> dholbach: The issue is that I got a comment on revu about 'extra' files in diff.gz (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5235). A possible way to remove these Makefile.ins from diff.gz would be to save the original ones before build and restore them later before the diff is generated. But I think that would clutter the rules file in an ugly way.
[05:45] <dholbach> I agree with you
[05:45] <dholbach> it's something that should be fixed upstream
[05:46] <asimon> dholbach: Okay, I will mail upstream and the author of the comment about this. Thank you very much.
[05:46] <dholbach> what you *could* do, is add a patch to debian/patches in which you run aclocal + automake (+ whatever else is needed) yourself
[05:46] <vijay2000> what is cdbs
[05:47] <asimon> dholbach: Ah yes, that's something I did'nt think of. I will try this. Thanks
[05:47] <dholbach> asimon: cdbs-edit-patch 01-run-autotools ... aclocal; automake; rm -r autom4te* ... ctrl-d  should do the trick
[05:47] <persia> vijay2000: The Common Debian Build System.  It's also a package, and when installed, it includes (limited) documentation.
[05:47] <dholbach> vijay2000: cdbs is a set of scripts that make maintainers life easier
[05:47] <dholbach> vijay2000: it's used to write the debian/rules file (which is like a Makefile used to build a package)
[05:48] <vijay2000> oh
[05:48] <dholbach> https://perso.duckcorp.org/duck/cdbs-doc/cdbs-doc.xhtml has more info about that
[06:01] <LaserJock> dholbach: you might want to use /MOTU/Sandbox for temp wiki pages. That way you can just delete them when you move them into a permanent home
[06:02] <vijay2000> i am getting the following error when i debuild
[06:02] <vijay2000> vijay@vijay-desktop:~/Desktop/clamtk-2.32/debian$ debuild -S -sa
[06:02] <vijay2000> dpkg-buildpackage: source package is clamtk
[06:02] <vijay2000> dpkg-buildpackage: source version is 2.17-0ubuntu2
[06:02] <vijay2000> dpkg-buildpackage: source changed by Vijay <vijay2000@gmail.com>
[06:02] <vijay2000>  fakeroot debian/rules clean
[06:03] <dholbach> LaserJock: aha? why should I use Sandbox?
[06:04] <dholbach> vijay2000: hold on :-)
[06:04] <LaserJock> because that's a place to put "junk" stuff
[06:04] <vijay2000> ok
[06:04] <tritium> Hi guys :)
[06:04] <LaserJock> so you don't have to redirect all the time
[06:04] <LaserJock> hi tritium 
[06:04] <dholbach>  Now signing changes and any dsc files...
[06:04] <dholbach>   signfile clamtk_2.17-0ubuntu2.dsc Vijay <vijay2000@gmail.com>
[06:04] <dholbach>  gpg: skipped "Vijay <vijay2000@gmail.com>": secret key not available
[06:04] <dholbach>  gpg: [stdin] : clearsign failed: secret key not available
[06:04] <vijay2000> i think i overflooded 
[06:04] <dholbach>  pub   1024D/D77BB7A8 2007-05-22
[06:04] <dholbach>  uid                  Vijay (Vijay) <vijay2000@gmail.com>
[06:04] <dholbach>  sub   1024g/F1804511 2007-05-22
[06:04] <dholbach> can somebody help vijay2000 with that?
[06:05] <LaserJock> does it need the (Vijay) part?
[06:05] <dholbach> he seems to have the key alright, but debsign seems to still be unhappy
[06:05] <vijay2000> yes please help
[06:05] <\sh> no secret key or wrong name and uid
[06:05] <dholbach> vijay2000: can you try to add that to DEBFULLNAME?
[06:05] <vijay2000> u mean the vijay in the brackets
[06:05] <dholbach> yes
[06:08] <tritium> How are you, dholbach?
[06:08] <dholbach> hey tritium
[06:08] <dholbach> fine fine - how are YOU?
[06:08] <tritium> Not bad, thanks.
[06:10] <dholbach> great :-)
[06:10] <vijay2000> i have given as export DEBFULLNAME='Vijay(Vijay)'
[06:10] <vijay2000> export DEBEMAIL='vijay2000@gmail.com'
[06:10] <vijay2000> is that fine
[06:10] <tritium> I'm trying to get up to Portland.  Maybe I'll see you :)
[06:11] <vijay2000> i am still getting the same error
[06:12] <vijay2000> dpkg-genchanges: including full source code in upload
[06:12] <vijay2000> dpkg-buildpackage: source only upload: Debian-native package
[06:12] <vijay2000> Now signing changes and any dsc files...
[06:12] <vijay2000>  signfile clamtk_2.17-0ubuntu2.dsc Vijay <vijay2000@gmail.com>
[06:12] <vijay2000> gpg: skipped "Vijay <vijay2000@gmail.com>": secret key not available
[06:12] <vijay2000> gpg: [stdin] : clearsign failed: secret key not available
[06:12] <vijay2000> debsign: gpg error occurred!  Aborting....
[06:12] <vijay2000> debuild: fatal error at line 791:
[06:12] <LaserJock> vijay2000: ok try debuild -S -sa -kD77BB7A8
[06:13] <vijay2000> now i get 
[06:13] <vijay2000> dpkg-genchanges: including full source code in upload
[06:13] <vijay2000> dpkg-buildpackage: source only upload: Debian-native package
[06:13] <vijay2000> Now signing changes and any dsc files...
[06:13] <vijay2000>  signfile clamtk_2.32-0Ubuntu1.dsc D77BB7A8
[06:13] <vijay2000> You need a passphrase to unlock the secret key for
[06:13] <vijay2000> user: "Vijay (Vijay) <vijay2000@gmail.com>"
[06:13] <vijay2000> 1024-bit DSA key, ID D77BB7A8, created 2007-05-22
[06:14] <LaserJock> vijay2000: do you run seahorse?
[06:15] <vijay2000> brb
[06:21] <dholbach> siretart: mind if I make you an Administrator of the ~revu team? (that's for the bzr based process)
[06:25] <dholbach> I'll wait with announcing the new mentoring process a bit - seems we might soon get ubuntu-motu-mentors@ list which might help with the process
[06:25] <dholbach> also it'd be nice to get some more mentoring slots
[06:25] <dholbach> we have 16 mentoring slots now, 13 of which are taken
[06:26] <dholbach> ok 12 are taken
[06:26] <mumbly> raphink, hello ! :o)
[06:26] <dholbach> hey mumbly
[06:26] <dholbach> mumbly: you just joined the REVU team right?
[06:26] <mumbly> right !
[06:27] <dholbach> mumbly: so you want to use bzr for packaging?
[06:27] <raphink> yop mumbly
[06:27] <mumbly> maybe ... :)
[06:27] <dholbach> aha
[06:33] <dholbach> see you tomorrow
[06:44] <jussi01> hello motu's
[06:46] <jussi01> I have another small problem, I have been building my package, and have made a man page for the package. however cdbs doesnt pick up that the man page is there, how do i fix this?
[06:54] <Riddell> jussi01: you have to install the manpage explicitly
[06:54] <asac> jussi01: adding manpage to debian/packagename.manpages ?
[06:54] <jussi01> asac: I have done that
[06:54] <jussi01> Riddell: how so?
[06:54] <Riddell> as asac says
[06:54] <QuickSilverII> Has anyone packaged INSPircd yet
[06:54] <Riddell> that's debhelper which should do that, not cdbs
[06:55] <asac> jussi01: you probably lack to include debhelper.mk
[06:55] <jussi01> ahhh.... so it shouldnt be manpage.1 ??
[06:55] <jussi01> asac: i have that in rules, yes
[06:56] <jussi01> ok, thanks people, ill have a look at it. Im heading out now. see you tomorrow
[07:05] <highvoltage> Riddell: I installed the KDE 3.5.7 packages today and it fixed a whole bunch of Kontact issues. you guys rock! :)
[07:08] <nixternal> highvoltage: what types of issues did you notice get fixed?
[07:11] <highvoltage> nixternal: if you opened two OOo attachements in kmail, for example, the second wouldn't open
[07:11] <nixternal> ahh..cool
[07:11] <highvoltage> nixternal: it seemed that kmail just overwrote the first attachment, andOOo didn't like it
[07:12] <nixternal> good deal. maybe I am not using kontact/kmail hard enough
[07:12] <highvoltage> it also sometimes crashed when applying large amount of filters. that seems better now.
[07:12] <nixternal> in the past year, I bet I can count less than 5 crashes
[07:12] <nixternal> highvoltage: yes, and that is when I noticed my crashes actually
[07:12] <highvoltage> I use thunderbird, but for the government work we use Kontact, since it integrates with Kolab
[07:13] <highvoltage> Thunderbird last crashed on me in 2003 :)
[07:13] <nixternal> what government do you work for that uses Kontact?
[07:13] <nixternal> let along Kolab
[07:13] <highvoltage> The South African government
[07:13] <nixternal> s/along/alone
[07:13] <nixternal> that is sweet
[07:14] <highvoltage> we're systematically going to convert the whole governmtn
[07:14] <highvoltage> *government
[07:14] <highvoltage> we're only starting now, it's exciting and scary, but I love it :)
[07:15] <nixternal> that totally rocks...our government (you know the corrupt arse US one), they still use MS Mail at a majority of their locations
[07:15] <nixternal> the only people who have changed are those who are on the Navy/Marine Corp network. And that is so locked down it is insane
[07:15] <highvoltage> yep, current status is the same here. Outlook is everywhere.
[07:16] <nixternal> I didn't say outlook...I said MS Mail :)  from what I take, the government has the source or something to it, and they have their own secure version
[07:16] <nixternal> MS Mail from like 3.1
[07:16] <nixternal> lol
[07:16] <highvoltage> we've had some resistance because of kontact's bugginess, but the kde 3.5.7 version fixes all of that for us, so it's quite cool.
[07:16] <highvoltage> aaaaah, THAT MS Mail!!!
[07:16] <ScottK> nixternal: The people I work with are all on Exchange/Outlook and hating life.
[07:16] <highvoltage> As in... Microsoft Internet Mail :)
[07:16] <nixternal> haha yes
[07:17] <highvoltage> ouch
[07:17] <nixternal> Exchange is nice, if you get someone who can set it up correctly...but all of my jobs pretty much use IMAP now
[07:17] <nixternal> only problem, I have never seen anyone set it up correctly
[07:18] <nixternal> and most companies purchase the exchange licenses, and just use the POP3 portions, they don't use any of the funky *sharing
[07:18] <vijay2000> laserjock : i am back
[07:19] <ScottK> Exchange is nice if you have an unlimited hardware budget for the server and you protect it behind a proper MTA so it isn't exposed to the internet...
[07:19] <nixternal> I used to maintain and exhcange server or 2 in my day..and lets just say, I never did it right either
[07:19] <highvoltage> our problem is not so much with the mail component, but with the calendaring component
[07:19] <nixternal> ya, calendaring is the big thing these days
[07:19] <highvoltage> there's not much in ubuntu/gnu/linux that does calendaring well
[07:19] <nixternal> highvoltage: how is the calendaring with Kolab?
[07:19] <nixternal> I have yet to mess with it
[07:19] <highvoltage> nixternal: it's the only thing that works properly
[07:20] <nixternal> hehe
[07:20] <ScottK> Heh.  With the latest set of TZ changes in the US, all my customers had terrible problems with their Exchange/Outlook, but Kontact and Ubuntu had no problems at all.
[07:20] <nixternal> I need to get a decent machine and run a Kolab server here
[07:20] <highvoltage> nixternal: kolab is currently broken in universe though, so you have to install from source
[07:20] <nixternal> go figure
[07:20] <crimsun> yep, employer uses Microsoft SMTPSVC.
[07:20] <highvoltage> I plan to fix Kolab in universe when I'm a motu
[07:20] <ScottK> highvoltage: Fix it now and we'll help you upload it.  It'll help you become a MOTU.
[07:21] <nixternal> and crimsun, you use the shiney new Vista superduper desktop featuring KDEs Aero look
[07:21] <nixternal> heh
[07:21] <crimsun> nixternal: heh, if only. I'll actually be using much more ancient tools.
[07:21] <highvoltage> ScottK: ok, it will take some work, but I will certainly put some effort into it
[07:21] <nixternal> my laptop goes between 48C and 55C
[07:21] <ScottK> highvoltage: Great.  We're here to help you.
[07:21] <nixternal> it doesn't go higher, and it doesn't go lower
[07:21] <highvoltage> :)
[07:22] <ScottK> My laptop goes between leg temperature and I think I'll set it down now because that hurts.
[07:22] <nixternal> lol
[07:22] <nixternal> I have a cooly pad I use when I sit on the couch or in bed with it
[07:22] <nixternal> otherwise my lap would be sweating
[07:23] <nixternal> OK people, I am goingt o run out for a second, and when I come back I expect to see all the links I need for packaging a library (libhttp) in Debian
[07:23] <nixternal> back in a few
[07:23] <ScottK> nixternal: You are welcome to expect that.
[07:26] <highvoltage> talk to you guys gain later, I'm on a real slow gprs connection and it seems to be getting slowr. thanks for the motivation!
[07:26] <Riddell> highvoltage: great
[07:34] <vijay2000> can anybody tell me how to confirm a open pgp key
[07:34] <vijay2000> i have galemo and firefox
[07:36] <crimsun> galemo?
[07:36] <crimsun> did you mean `galeon'?
[07:38] <vijay2000> yes galeon
[07:42] <crimsun> well if you /part, we can't assist you...
[07:44] <dabaR> :)
[07:52] <tsmithe> man-di_, did you get a look at wired?
[08:10] <ucap>  /rename
[09:31] <PriceChild> Any motu's willing to take a look over http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5249 ? persia mentioned "special attention to the copyright provisions and the compliance with python policy." would be good :)
[09:33] <LaserJock> ohh, looks like a lot of PPA stuff got done
[09:39] <pochu> No activity... That's the power of the Champions League :)
[09:40] <DktrKranz> ahah
[09:42] <DktrKranz> LaserJock, really?
[09:42] <DktrKranz> is it available for the masses?
[09:43] <xxxxx1> hello LaserJock 
[09:43] <zul> LaserJock: hmm?
[09:44] <LaserJock> it's getting there
[09:45] <crevette> hello
[09:45] <crevette> I need some pointer to package some fonts
[09:46] <crevette> I seen that fonts packages uses defoma rules
[09:47] <crimsun> please read https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2007-May/000968.html first.
[09:49] <crevette> Okay I'll do this rigtht away
[09:49] <crevette> tx
[09:51] <crevette> crimsun: you're involved in fonts packaging ?
[09:51] <crimsun> crevette: haven't been in quite some time
[09:56] <crevette> I ned also advice from someone from legal
[09:56] <crevette> because I don't have knowledge in that and the fonts licence is GPl with a restriction
[09:57] <crimsun> it's best to raise that on the Alioth pkg-fonts mailing list
[09:57] <slomo> crevette: still those redhat fonts?
[09:58] <LaserJock> my goodness, it's slomo!
[09:58] <crevette> slomo: I didn't had time to consult someone until now
[09:59] <slomo> crevette: people in #gnome-debian talked about the license and afaik result was that it's non-free and that they wanted to contact redhat about it
[09:59] <slomo> crevette: iirc other distros had a problem with it too... but i didn't really follow the discussion
[09:59] <slomo> hi LaserJock :)
[10:07] <nixternal> OK...I truly dislike building a lib package from scratch
[10:08] <crimsun> why? It builds character.
[10:20] <ScottK> Trying to change the name of the clamav package for the backport alternative is currently building character in this quarter.
[10:20] <nixternal> builds character? headaches != character :)
[10:22] <ScottK> The character building part is that I've not thrown anything, broken anything, or lost my temper.
[10:25] <dothebart> ScottK: i've added the commitmessage to http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5180&text=from+SVN%3A%0D%0Ar5173+%7C+ajc+%7C+2007-05-23+10%3A29%3A48+-0400+%28Wed%2C+23+May+2007%29+%7C+5+lines%0D%0AChanged+paths%3A%0D%0AM+%2Ftrunk%2Fcitadel%2Fopenldap%2Fcitadel.schema%0D%0AM+%2Ftrunk%2Fcitadel%2Fopenldap%2Frfc2739.schema%0D%0A%0D%0ARemoved+some+spurious+copyright+info+from+the+openldap%0D%0Aschema.+This+text+applied+to+the+RFC+from+w
[10:25] <dothebart> ugh.
[10:26] <dothebart> whats that.
[10:26] <dothebart> sorry all.
[10:26] <dothebart> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5180
[10:26] <nixternal> hehe
[10:26] <ScottK> dothebart: I would urge you to concentrate on libical first.
[10:27] <ScottK> dothebart: Since that's a build-dep for citadel, it'll have to get uploaded, get throught NEW queue processing, and build before we could upload citadel in any case.
[10:27] <dothebart> yes, i just posted your comments on that licensing issue on the citadel devel room...
[10:27] <ScottK> OK
[10:27] <dothebart> and this was the reaction.
[10:28] <ScottK> From a critical path perspective, the build-deps are all that matter at this point.
[10:28] <dothebart> ok. 
[10:29] <dothebart> but that issue on citadel can be thought as solved?
[10:29] <ScottK> I actually didn't look yet.
[10:29] <dothebart> i just want to know if i have to take further actions on that.
[10:30] <ScottK> I looked and based on your comment, I would say yes.  I'd need to see the actuall wording to know for sure.
[10:31] <ScottK> Ubuntu is pretty particular about getting the copyright stuff correct and you don't find out until you get to the front of the NEW queue (after some wait) if the archive admin is happy or not.  Better to work really hard up front to be complete and correct.
[10:32] <dothebart> http://tar.gzipped.org/citadel.schema
[10:32] <dothebart> and 
[10:32] <dothebart> http://tar.gzipped.org/rfc2739.schema
[10:34] <ScottK> dothebart: http://tar.gzipped.org/rfc2739.schema now lacks any mention of licensing.  It needs at least the GPL mention you have in the other one.
[10:34] <dothebart> wouldn't that be implicit with the package?
[10:35] <ScottK> Why not mention it and avoid risk of confusion?  This is in a grey area and may or may not be OK in the end.  Why take a chance?
[10:36] <dothebart> ok, i'll post it over.
[10:37] <ScottK> Did you understand my point on libical about the COPYING file OK?
[10:37] <dothebart> not yet totaly, didn't have the time to view it with concentration...
[10:38] <ScottK> OK.
[10:38] <nixternal> http://www.softorchestra.com/downloads/libhttp-1.1.tar.gz
[10:38] <ScottK> Ideally when you package something, the only place you should touch in the package is inside the debian dir.
[10:38] <dothebart> just returned from a 64 km ride with the roadbike after riding 20 km home after work ;)
[10:38] <nixternal> anyone feel like looking through that and telling me just how involved the debian/rules file would be
[10:39] <nixternal> I have everything else already configged...rules is my only problem...more than likely would have to reconfigure Makefile (dpatch/patch)
[10:39] <ScottK> If you have to repack the original tarball, there are rules you have to follow.  Since you are upstream, put the COPYING file in the original tarball.  It'll be easier.
[10:39] <ScottK> dothebart: Watch out, excercise is dangerous.
[10:40] <dothebart> well, being upstream i don't need the patches dir as long as my changes go well with the rest of the users.
[10:40] <dothebart> ok.
[10:41] <dothebart> i think there soon will be a .30 of libical available on upstream, and it looks as if evolution is going to use it again instead of their fork.
[10:41] <ScottK> OK.  So you are not upstream for libical then?
[10:42] <dothebart> well, i can become with one question to the citadel team leader.
[10:42] <dothebart> but, as long as my changes are reasonable, they won't be questioned.
[10:44] <ScottK> OK.  Then I'd ask them to add the COPYING file in their upstream tarball.
[11:23] <xxxxx1> bye all
[11:32] <ScottK> I uploaded my work in progress clamav-alt package to REVU.  Comments/help appreciated at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5254
[11:32] <ScottK> See you all later.  Time for me to go play Daddy for the evening.
[11:37] <fretchen> hello, where is a nice forum to discuss problems with packiging the examples of the documentation?
[11:45] <tudenbart> re.
[11:46] <PriceChild> Any motu's willing to take a look over http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5249 ? persia mentioned "special attention to the copyright provisions and the compliance with python policy." would be good :)
[11:57] <dothebart> ScottK: by motu, do you mean signing that paper?
[11:57] <dothebart> aka being ubuntero? i did that.
[11:58] <ScottK> No.  Gimme a sec, I'll get you the link
[11:58] <somerville32> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU ?
[11:59] <ScottK> No, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebianMaintainerField
[11:59] <ScottK> dothebart: Read that and it'll tell you how to fill out Maintainer.
[11:59] <dothebart> ok, tnx.
[12:01] <ScottK> See you later.
[12:01] <dothebart> yes, SIG_SLEEP
[12:12] <beuno> does anyone know what would be requiered to setup an offcial mirror of the Ubuntu repos?