[01:10] <morphir> is there a channel for repository maintainers?
[01:11] <crimsun> in what sense?
[01:11] <crimsun> #ubuntu-motu is for universe and multiverse maintainers/developers
[01:12] <crimsun> if you mean the actual backend (soyuz), that's a Canonical IRC channel
[01:13] <morphir> thanx :)
[01:45] <gnomefreak> LjL: is he being banned from everywhere?
[01:46] <LjL> gnomefreak: he was being silly in -effects too, i thought i'd just preempt him in here
[01:46] <gnomefreak> in -bugs too should i ban him therE?
[01:46] <LjL> gnomefreak: i'm not there, ask crimsun
[01:46] <gnomefreak> k
[03:50] <conn> hi, is everyone else seeing the warnings in g_thread_init() when launching many applications?
[03:56] <morphir> what it chkconfig being replaced with?
[03:56] <morphir> I don't find it in the repos
[08:39] <DShepherd> is the spec for gutsy available?
[08:39] <RAOF> What do you mean by "the spec for gutsy"?
[08:39] <RAOF> Specs, some of which are targeted for gutsy, are on launchpad
[08:39] <DShepherd> RAOF, the stuff that the devs are working on for gutsy
[08:40] <RAOF>   	 15  Pending Approval   	 60  Started   	 James Troup   	
[08:40] <RAOF> 90 Essential 	techboard-2006 informational 	15 Pending Approval 	0 Unknown 	Matt Zimmerman 	
[08:40] <RAOF> Damnit!
[08:41] <RAOF> Sorry.  blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu./
[08:41] <RAOF> I just can't seem to paste into irssi consistently :(
[08:43] <DShepherd> RAOF, thanks
[12:48] <vraa> hello!
[12:50] <vraa> what are the repository changes so i can make 7.04 --> 7.10 ?
[12:51] <gnomefreak> vraa: take a look at your current repos there is a huge clue on what to do. (you really dont want to play with 7.10 yet) just a suggestion
[12:51] <vraa> yeah i think i found out how to
[12:51] <vraa> http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-428368.html
[12:51] <vraa> i'm running it in vmware, i really want to test something out which is updated often
[12:55] <Hobbsee> it breaks
[12:56] <vraa> what do you mean it breaks?
[12:58] <Hobbsee> it's the development version, gutsy breaks.
[01:02] <vraa> oh that's fine
[01:02] <vraa> i'm running it in vmware anyways. should be a good introduction to linux
[01:03] <vraa> i have mac os x
[01:03] <vraa> so i should learn more about the basics
[01:03] <gnomefreak> devel versions are not a good way to learn the basics
[01:04] <vraa> it's helping
[01:04] <vraa> i'm learning what a c compiler does
[01:05] <vraa> i tried to install vmware and it couldn't find the right kernel something, i think architecture? no idea. so it said i need a c compiler so i can make my own. that's the gcc thing.
[01:05] <gnomefreak> when learning you have a tendency to break things. iif you do you wont beable to tell if its you that broke it or devels
[01:05] <vraa> oh i dont break things
[01:05] <vraa> i'm a good boy
[01:05] <vraa> haha
[01:05] <gnomefreak> vraa: build-essential would be what you want among other things for kernel building
[01:05] <vraa> what is build-essential?
[01:06] <gnomefreak> !be
[01:06] <gnomefreak> ops
[01:06] <vraa> according to about.com
[01:06] <vraa> If you do not plan to build Debian packages, you don't need this package.
[01:06] <gnomefreak> its a meta package for compiliers and other fun stuff
[01:06] <vraa> oh, apt-get build-essential
[01:06] <gnomefreak> vraa: you need it to compile ANYTHING
[01:06] <gnomefreak> vraa: install
[01:06] <vraa> apt-get install build-essential
[01:07] <gnomefreak> vraa: i really suggest you stick with stable version of ubuntu
[01:07] <vraa> bollocks, where is the fun in that?
[01:07] <vraa> i have 7.04 installed at work
[01:07] <vraa> i'll keep 7.10 in vmware to fuss around with
[01:08] <vraa> 7.04 was so easy to install. it even asked if i wanted to import information from my windows partition. that was cool.
[01:08] <vraa> oh i think i found something for 7.10. it installs gaim as well as pidgin
[01:08] <vraa> at least the synaptics will download gaim package and pidgin package
[01:09] <gnomefreak> vraa: it wont install gaim
[01:09] <vraa> this is so fun
[01:09] <gnomefreak> should remove gaim on upgrade
[01:09] <gnomefreak> vraa: well if you find bugs file them, support for gutsy is not really here yet
[01:10] <vraa> i sure will, i file bug reports for some mac software
[01:10] <vraa> i assume that ubuntu has the same setup? trac and tickets and what not?
[01:10] <gnomefreak> !bugs
[01:10] <gnomefreak> if bot works yet
[01:10] <gnomefreak> guess not
[01:10] <vraa> heh looks like the bot is down
[01:11] <Hobbsee> gnomefreak: yes it will, gaim eithe ris, or will be a metapckage in gutsy
[01:11] <gnomefreak> vraa: launchpad.net
[01:11] <vraa> wow what a nice looking site
[01:11] <gnomefreak> Hobbsee: right but it wont install gaim it will install pidgoin
[01:11] <Hobbsee> please dont run gutsy if you dont have a working knowledge of apt and dpkg.
[01:11] <gnomefreak> same as debians firefox does
[01:11] <vraa> :(
[01:12] <Hobbsee> for your own sanity
[01:12] <vraa> i will learn apt and dpkg
[01:12] <Hobbsee> gnomefreak: true.  well, it wont install gaim and the program
[01:12] <vraa> my sanity was long lost when i tried to do a gentoo minimal install
[01:13] <Hobbsee> vraa: part of the problem of running gutsy is that you'll get into trouble, you'll need help, and often there's no one around to answer.  and those that do answer expect you to have a working knowledge of linux, so will tend to point you, rather than step you through, as you shouldnt be running the development versoin whcih gets broken, and fixed, and broken again, without knowing how to fix it - or at least how to have a semi-working system.
[01:13] <vraa> oh i wont ask for help
[01:13] <vraa> if i do it'll be in the ubuntu channel
[01:13] <vraa> it'll be like this
[01:14] <vraa> ubuntu+1: you need to execute $foo
[01:14] <vraa> then i'll go to ubuntu and ask "how do you execute $foo" if google can't explain it
[01:14] <Hobbsee> they'll probably say "check man foo" actually...
[01:14] <Hobbsee> but in essence
[01:14] <vraa> haha
[01:15] <Hobbsee> i mean, you can run it, sure - you just have to know that you will run into problems, and sometimes you wont know how to fix them - especially if you're new to linux
[01:15] <Hobbsee> er, debian-based systems, i meant
[01:15] <vraa> that's fine with me. i'm just testing it out anyways, trying something new
[01:21] <gnomefreak> if python-sip4 was not broken it wouldnt be in gutsy ;)
[01:22] <Hobbsee> true
[01:22] <Hobbsee> networkstatus is fixed now, so knetworkmanager loads
[01:23] <Hobbsee> The following packages will be REMOVED:
[01:23] <Hobbsee>   apport-qt hwdb-client-kde kubuntu-desktop language-selector-qt python-qt4 software-properties-kde
[01:23] <Hobbsee> The following packages will be upgraded:
[01:23] <Hobbsee>   python-sip4
[01:23] <Hobbsee> and that it was messy to look into fixing
[01:27] <gnomefreak> i remember that also
[01:30] <Hobbsee> yeah, it does
[03:11] <Quinn_Storm> anyone else run into the strange situation where alsa+SDL+Intel-HDA==ugly crackly sound?
[03:11] <Quinn_Storm> err, dmix might be involved too
[03:11] <Quinn_Storm> not sure
[03:12] <crimsun> it's normally dmix's fault.
[03:12] <crimsun> you can confirm by using plughw: or hw: instead of default.
[03:12] <Quinn_Storm> yeah but how do you fix it?  I can't live without dmix...
[03:12] <crimsun> you can use pulseaudio
[03:13] <Quinn_Storm> pulseaudio?
[03:13] <crimsun> not a fix but a hackaround for this use case.
[03:13] <Quinn_Storm> ah ok, its the finally-maintained esd-replacement
[03:13] <crimsun> I need more debugging info. Does plughw: or hw: resolve the symptom?
[03:13] <Quinn_Storm> do you know an easy way to make sure plughw/hw: is set for a given sdl game?
[03:14] <crimsun> I'm not sure if SDL games provide a method for setting a specific ALSA virtual device
[03:14] <crimsun> if you're not overriding pcm.!default {}, then it will use default, which is normally dmixed.
[03:15] <Quinn_Storm> ah, well I put 'pcm.!default{  \n  type hw\n  card 0\n}' in .asoundrc, that good enough?
[03:15] <crimsun> sure
[03:15] <Quinn_Storm> ok yeah that seems to resolve the issue
[03:16] <crimsun> ok, that should be resolved in 1.0.14. We've made slowptr the default.
[03:16] <Quinn_Storm> ok, so I could just download/compile/install 1.0.14?
[03:17] <crimsun> that would be a bit overkill
[03:17] <crimsun> it's all asoundrc-based
[03:17] <Quinn_Storm> ah ok
[03:17] <Quinn_Storm> so how do I do it in asoundrc & keep dmix?
[03:17] <Quinn_Storm> I don't know about slowptr and asoundrc has no docs
[03:18] <crimsun> http://www.alsa-project.org/alsa-doc/alsa-lib/pcm_plugins.html, see the Plugin: dmix syntax
[03:18] <crimsun> note slowptr
[03:18] <crimsun> it's about 3/5 down
[03:18] <Quinn_Storm> ok
[03:18] <Quinn_Storm> sorry for being a bit thick this morning
[03:19] <crimsun> np, I don't expect everyone to know ALSA inside-out.
[03:19] <Quinn_Storm> yeah, I should learn it though, I'm sure it'll come in handy
[03:22] <Quinn_Storm> well, slowptr doesn't seem to quite provide the same fix as using raw hw
[03:23] <crimsun> hw: ?
[03:23] <crimsun> it shouldn't
[03:23] <Quinn_Storm> its better but not perfect
[03:23] <crimsun> hw: bypasses alsa-lib completely, so slowptr is moot
[03:23] <Quinn_Storm> right
[03:23] <Quinn_Storm> no
[03:23] <Quinn_Storm> I mean using dmix+slowptr isn't quite as good as using hw:
[03:24] <crimsun> interesting, so hw: is noticeably better than plughw: ?
[03:25] <Quinn_Storm> hm? no, I mean: using the aforementioned !default, I get near-perfect sound.; using a dmix !default w/ slowptr, I get not-so-good sound, using no .asoundrc (default dmix), I get terrible sound
[03:26] <crimsun> right, so hw: is noticeably better than plughw:
[03:26] <crimsun> {type hw} gives you hw:
[03:26] <crimsun> type plug {slave.pcm "hw:foo"} gives you plughw:
[03:26] <Quinn_Storm> ah right, type plug, slave.pcm "dmixer" -- pcm.dmixer {} == plughw?
[03:27] <crimsun> presuming you don't dmix in pcm.dmixer {}
[03:27] <Quinn_Storm> yeah I do dmix there, that's what I am talking about - pcm.dmixer {} type dmix
[03:27] <crimsun> if you do, it's plug:dmix: instead of plughw:
[03:27] <Quinn_Storm> right, plug:dmix is what I am talking about
[03:27] <Quinn_Storm> with slowptr true in it
[03:28] <crimsun> ok
[03:28] <Quinn_Storm> and it has a slave with pcm hw:0,0
[03:28] <crimsun> you _may_ be able to fudge around it in the driver.
[03:28] <Quinn_Storm> well maybe since HDA-Intel is so new, a newer alsa is a good idea anyway
[03:28] <crimsun> try commenting out slowptr and using position_fix=2 or =3 with modprobe snd-hda-intel
[03:29] <crimsun> (you'll need to unload it first, of course)
[03:29] <Quinn_Storm> ok...will try that
[03:32] <Quinn_Storm> nope, no love there, both actually make clicking worse, causing an each-buffer-click in addition to the crackling
[03:32] <crimsun> ok, good, at least that means that the driver side isn't [as]  broken.
[03:33] <Quinn_Storm> finding a fix would be good of course, as this is a system76 darter, and then I can forward the fix to the other users
[03:36] <Quinn_Storm> and I did check, its not stray unmuted channels
[03:36] <crimsun> no, it's a known alsa-lib issue
[03:37] <Quinn_Storm> ok, guess then its not fixed in 1.0.14?
[03:37] <crimsun> if it's the "hw: outperforms alsa-lib", then no
[03:38] <Quinn_Storm> well, its the hw: doesn't cause lots of random crackling where plug:dmix does (even with slowptr)
[03:38] <crimsun> that's a fairly intractable problem
[03:38] <Quinn_Storm> the really ugly part of it is only some apps trigger this bug...specifically, it seems, SDL apps
[03:39] <crimsun> it seems there's a lot of resampling involved
[03:39] <Quinn_Storm> yeah that's probably where the bug comes from
[03:40] <Quinn_Storm> that and...I wonder if SDL_mixer abuses dmix when present (multi-opens instead of premixing)
[03:43] <Quinn_Storm> I get *almost* correct results with 'rate 44100' in my dmix section along with slowptr true, trying a huge buffer_size to see if that helps
[03:44] <Quinn_Storm> hmm, doesn't seem to really change it
[03:46] <Quinn_Storm> using period_size 2048 buffer_size 32768 seems to eliminate the problem (when used with slowptr 1)
[03:47] <crimsun> that is _nasty_
[03:48] <Quinn_Storm> yeah, but the lag isn't audible so..I'll live with it
[05:13] <Cade> Are any other AIGLX users getting the white stuff around the panels with Compiz 0.5?
[05:14] <crimsun> it's known, yes.
[05:15] <Cade> kk :)
[05:15] <Cade> just wanted to make sure... else I was gonna file the bug report
[07:01] <ilyail3> can somebody help
[07:03] <ilyail3> I need some help with using samba-python
[07:21] <CarlFK> is there a gutsy iso ?
[07:25] <kalpik> CarlFK, not yet
[07:25] <kalpik> wait for sometime
[07:26] <CarlFK> k - somehting wonky with usb, figured I would see if 'new stuff' made any difference
[07:30] <kalpik> CarlFK, you can upgrade to gutsy by changing all references of feisty to gutsy and then doing an apt-get dist-upgrade
[07:31] <CarlFK> good timing.  I was 30 secnds away from doing a feisty-server install on it
[07:36] <CarlFK> "Need to get 338MB of archives."  I need to setup squid or something...
[07:39] <CarlFK> proably would have been quicker to do the f-server, then dist-grade that
[07:45] <CarlFK> do all of the releases pull from http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/ ?
[07:47] <CarlFK> I was trying to find a URL that had all the gutsy .deb's - guessing I would have to use http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/gutsy/Contents-i386.gz ?
[07:48] <CarlFK> guessing there is a list of debs that is combied with the repo listed in sources.list....
[07:55] <kalpik> CarlFK, yes :)
[07:56] <CarlFK> ok, squid and a few gig of disk space will be way easier
[07:56] <CarlFK> isn't there some apt proxy thing that might be 'better' ?
[07:56] <kalpik> CarlFK, im not too sure but have you tried aptoncd?
[07:57] <CarlFK> does it require me to burn a CD?
[07:57] <kalpik> CarlFK, no.. it just creates ISO files.. you can restore the apt cache with the help of the iso itself
[07:58] <CarlFK> hmm
[08:41] <CarlFK> any idea how to mirror archive.ubuntu.com ?
[11:28] <edgy> Hi, where can I find a how to for installaing gutsy in chroot or in it's own partition?
[11:33] <gnomefreak> !chroot
[11:33] <ubotwo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebootstrapChroot use this to build 32 bit environments on a 64 bit box
[11:39] <edgy> gnomefreak: and if I just want to install gutsy in it's own system? is there an iso to begin with?
[11:40] <gnomefreak> edgy: no
[11:40] <gnomefreak> edgy: none of the work. it has not been released to the public yet
[11:40] <gnomefreak> wait for alpha if you are brave and can do without a system
[11:40] <edgy> gnomefreak: so what's the recommended way to install the current unstable version?
[11:40] <gnomefreak> if not wait till rc release
[11:41] <gnomefreak> edgy: you dont yet
[11:41] <gnomefreak> s/the/them
[11:41] <edgy> gnomefreak: Umm! ok thx
[11:41] <gnomefreak> edgy: how do you install something that has no ISO to install from?
[11:42] <gnomefreak> if the ISO isnt working any other method is most likely not working ;)
[11:42] <edgy> gnomefreak: if I force a package to install via force-all and now I cannot upgrade my system or update it because it claims it's broken. but the package work for me and I want to leave it, how can I convince apt or synaptic to ignore it?
[11:43] <gnomefreak> edgy: i suggest you dont use gutsy if you are using --force-$anything to begin with. find out what you did and reverse it to fix it.
[11:44] <gnomefreak> edgy: force should never be used unless you know all the packages/files you are forcing very well and can fix it if it breaks. force is a great way to fudge up a system
[11:44] <edgy> gnomefreak: I am using feisty now and I forced the installation of  a new version of recordmydesktop from gutsy, but I want to leave it
[11:44] <gnomefreak> edgy: your mixing packages (also a very bad thing to do)
[11:45] <edgy> gnomefreak: man it's not a production system so don't worry ;)
[11:45] <gnomefreak> edgy: im not worried at all
[11:45] <edgy> gnomefreak: I mean shouldn't there be away to ignore broken packages if some one is brave enough to do it?
[11:46] <gnomefreak> edgy: you will do as you wish but dont expect to get support for gutsy for a while since really at this stage only devel should be using it
[11:46] <gnomefreak> edgy NO
[11:46] <gnomefreak> you FIX broken packages
[11:47] <edgy> gnomefreak: fix'ing here mean remove them?
[11:47] <gnomefreak> efgyone broken package can lead to a messed up system that may not boot. not your package but they are ther
[11:47] <gnomefreak> edgy: well yes mixing package is the worst thing you can do. is the worst when you dont know what dependancies it has. but why would people read
[11:48] <gnomefreak> edgy: remove the package and build it for feisty
[11:48] <edgy> gnomefreak: ok I will do. Thanks
[11:48] <gnomefreak> fix anything else it screwed up too im sure it installed a few other packages as depends
[11:48] <gnomefreak> hint if libc6 is one of them reinstall
[11:49] <edgy> gnomefreak: so before gutsy has an iso I cannot install a feisty base system and do dist-upgrade with -d -c option
[11:49] <gnomefreak> edgy: you can if you choose
[11:50] <gnomefreak> but take the warning i gave you to heart since im running 2 gutsy systems and 2 gutsy chroots
[11:51] <gnomefreak> edgy: hint DONT ever use force please as you  will only back yourself into a corner you cant get out of (atleast until you know what each package does and can fix it
[11:52] <edgy> gnomefreak: ok I won't do it again after this bold warning
[11:59] <edgy> thx gnomefreak again and bye