[01:41] <calc> hello
[01:42] <ajmitch> hi
[03:08] <calc> so a close to standard config dell E1505 is $649 vs $728 but it has a intel 950 vs ati x1400
[03:08] <calc> of course for linux intel is better than the ati binary only junk anyway
[03:09] <calc> too bad it appears the linux stuff is hidden on dell's site like it has been for the past ~ 7-8 years
[03:09] <calc> or at least i can't find it on their page without knowing the direct url to go to
[03:13] <calc> hmm actually i was a bit blind its on the main page, but its a temporary main image thing
[03:13] <calc> so when it goes away it won't be easily accessible anymoe
[03:13] <calc> er anymore
[03:15] <calc> ah i found the permanent way to access it for a user by accident
[03:15] <calc> you have the use the menu bar at the top, if you select laptops from the center of the screen it doesn't mention anything about the freedos/ubuntu hardware
[03:27] <Burgundavia> umm, look at dell.com now
[03:28] <jmg> Burgundavia: nothing on frontpage
[03:29] <ajmitch> jmg: it does also redirect by country
[03:29] <Burgundavia> it is part of a rotating banner
[03:29] <Burgundavia> ubuntu is one of 4 options
[03:29] <ajmitch> choose 'united states', and I get a big "By Popular Demand. Ubuntu Has Arrived"
[03:29] <jmg> ajmitch: oic
[03:29] <Burgundavia> doesn't redirect for me
[03:30] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: but that's because canada is part of the US, right?
[03:30] <Burgundavia> bloody aussies
[03:30] <ajmitch> :)
[03:30] <Burgundavia> :)
[03:35] <calc> ajmitch: rotates for me in the US also
[03:35] <calc> but it is accessible if you go to the top menu bar drop downs
[03:37] <Burgundavia> which ones?
[03:38] <calc> look for "open source" on the desktop and laptop menus at the top
[03:38] <calc> oh yea you don't see those until you pick an item off the front page first
[03:40] <calc> i'll probably end up getting a gateway from best buy when they are on sale, they seem to be the best bang for the buck right now
[03:40] <calc> http://www.gateway.com/retail/mt6831.php <- they put that on sale for ~ $900 USD every few weeks it seems
[03:40] <StevenK> Heh, heh. Gateway. Gateway tried to come out here about year ago. Within six months they were gone.
[03:41] <ajmitch> gateway bought a local pc dealer & then disappeared
[03:42] <calc> hehe
[03:42] <calc> the E1505N isn't too bad of a deal though
[04:01] <calc> Hobbsee: hi
[04:01] <Hobbsee> heya calc :)
[07:35] <dholbach> GOOD MORNING!
[07:37] <pitti> Good morning
[08:00] <crimsun> are uploads being queued?
[08:00] <pitti> crimsun: how do you mean?
[08:01] <pitti> (yes, they always land in a queue until soyuz accepts them, every 5 mins)
[08:01] <crimsun> oh, nm, just saw the accept.
[08:02] <crimsun> pitti: I didn't think I missed the processor at :55 (.upload's timestamp is :53)
[09:21] <nags> pitti, guess that message is not for me ;)
[09:22] <pitti> nags: nope; get a nick which is not an English verb :-P
[09:36] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 64695 in kdebase "If GDM is the default display manager KDE logout dialog is missing shutdown and restart options" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/64695
[09:40] <Fujitsu> Nice lag, ubotu.
[09:49] <ompaul> Fujitsu, it is having other problems at the moment, I've called the doctor for ubotu 
[10:15] <pitti> slomo: yay, Debian bug 425863 solves the amd64 FTBFS of texlive-bin
[10:15] <ubotu> Debian bug 425863 in texlive-bin "FTBFS: teckit/libtool yields multiple definition errors" [Serious,Closed]  http://bugs.debian.org/425863
[10:15] <pitti> slomo: so I'll see to fixing that .la problem  so that it'll finally build for ia64, too
[10:16] <StevenK> pitti: I've got a stupid question about scribus if you've got a sec.
[10:16] <pitti> StevenK: "don't ask to ask, just ask" :)
[10:16] <Fujitsu> !ask
[10:16] <StevenK> pitti: Bah. :-P
[10:17] <StevenK> pitti: One of the changelog entries you added for scribus was, "Scribus.pot: Add strings from desktop file.", I'm just wondering if you can give me a cluebat?
[10:17] <pitti> StevenK: ah, sure
[10:18] <pitti> StevenK: do you know what a .pot is?
[10:18] <StevenK> pitti: Sure. I managed to hack gettext support into Linda.
[10:18] <StevenK> I even have scars from it.
[10:18] <pitti> StevenK: so, since hoary we use langpacks for translating .desktop files
[10:19] <pitti> StevenK: i. e. we add the gettext domain to the *.desktop files and have gettext translate Name/Comment, instead of (or, rather, in addition to) using the static translations in them
[10:19] <dholbach> I'm sure StevenK knows what pot is ;-)
[10:19] <StevenK> dholbach: Bah.
[10:19] <pitti> StevenK: that's why we need the Name/Comment C strings in the POT, so that Rosetta sees them
[10:19] <StevenK> pitti: Sure, I've added the X-Ubuntu-Gettext-Domain to the .desktop, it's just how to get them from the .desktop into the .pot
[10:19] <pitti> StevenK: sorry; I just wanted to know at which level I start the explanation
[10:20] <pitti> StevenK: that might have been one of the packages which are not intltool'ized, thus I just copied the strings manually, I think
[10:20] <pitti> ideally the build system would take the desktop.in and have it in POTFILES
[10:21] <pitti> so if scribus is intltoolized now, that would be indeed much better
[10:21] <StevenK> No POTFILES{,.in}, so I doubt it.
[10:21] <pitti> but if it does not rebuild the .pot during package build, then copying the strings manually works
[10:21] <StevenK> I don't think it does, no mention of .pot in debian/rules.
[10:22] <pitti> so that hasn't changed then
[10:22] <Riddell> pitti: kdebase and hwdb-client updated in gutsy with patches from -updates
[10:22] <pitti> Riddell: yay, thanks
[10:22] <pitti> Riddell: (I already accepted them in feisty-updates)
[10:22] <Riddell> thanks
[10:22] <StevenK> pitti: The build system jumped from autobork to cmake, just to make the merge more interesting.
[10:23] <pitti> lol
[10:23] <StevenK> And the 2.4Mb patch on patches.u.c was oh so helpful, too.
[10:24] <slomo> pitti: sounds good, thanks :) you might also want to sync the new texlive-bin that was uploaded yesterday
[10:24] <pitti> slomo: right, that's what I meant
[10:25] <slomo> pitti: ah the patch is in the new upload already?
[10:25] <pitti> slomo: but before doing that I need to understand that .la problem and fix it, so that it won't FTBFS on ia64 again
[10:25] <pitti> slomo: yep
[10:25] <slomo> cool :)
[10:25] <StevenK> pitti: So, copy over {Name,Comment,GenericName} ?
[10:25] <Riddell> Mithrandir: could you give back some packages where the build-deps didn't want to install at the time?  kdelibs, kdegames (ia64), kdeartwork (ia64), kdeutils (ia64), kdeaddons (ia64) and kdegraphics 
[10:25] <pitti> StevenK: yes
[10:26] <StevenK> Riddell: Do you mind if I borrow^Wsteal your kaffeine merge?
[10:26] <slomo> pitti: thanks for caring for this :)
[10:26] <Riddell> StevenK: ask tonio about that, he's the kaffeine fanboy
[10:26] <StevenK> pitti: Thanks so much for your help. :-)
[10:26] <StevenK> Tonio_: Mind if I look at the kaffeine merge?
[10:26] <pitti> seb128: alright, so libcairo.la is mentioned in libgnomecanvas-2.la, libnotify.la, libpangocairo-1.0.la, libgmodule-2.0.la, and libpoppler.la
[10:27] <pitti> StevenK: you're welcome, thanks
[10:27] <pitti> seb128: that means we need to rebuild all those source packages before texlive-bin can build?
[10:27] <seb128> pitti: why?
[10:27] <seb128> pitti: what is the bug?
[10:27] <pitti> seb128: still the 'libcairo.la' FTBFS of texlive-bin on ia64
[10:27] <Riddell> StevenK: I'm pretty sure he's already working on it, but do go ahead with any other kde package
[10:27] <seb128> pitti: one of those -dev should Depends on libcairo-dev and doesn't
[10:28] <pitti> seb128: ah, I see
[10:28] <seb128> pitti: if you mention libcairo.la you have to use the corresponding Depends
[10:28] <pitti> seb128: libgnomecanvas2-dev, for example
[10:28] <StevenK> Riddell: Sure, I'll look at one once I've taken my dirty mitts off of scribus.
[10:29] <seb128> pitti: right
[10:29] <seb128> pitti: should we clean the .la rather than adding extra Depends?
[10:29] <Tonio_> StevenK: not at all, but I have to test a patch first
[10:29] <pitti> seb128: neither does libnotify-dev
[10:29] <StevenK> Tonio_: Would you rather I left it?
[10:29] <pitti> seb128: I think I should rather ask you this question
[10:29] <Tonio_> StevenK: well the point is that I already have the package done here :)
[10:30] <seb128> pitti: yeah, I'm all for cleaning the .la
[10:30] <StevenK> Tonio_: Ah, yeah, well.
[10:30] <seb128> pitti: I'm taking care of it now
[10:30] <Tonio_> StevenK: I'm just waiting a bit for upload
[10:30] <StevenK> Tonio_: Okay, what about exiv2?
[10:30] <pitti> seb128: I would just like to have a working texlive on ia64, since it causes a whole lot of pacakges to ftbfs 
[10:30] <seb128> pitti: easier way is to upload texlive with a Build-Depends on libcairo-dev
[10:31] <pitti> seb128: hm, that would mean reintroducing ubuntu delta
[10:31] <seb128> pitti: wait
[10:31] <Tonio_> StevenK: nothing about that, you can work on the package if you want :)
[10:32] <pitti> and texlive doesn't need cairo, so that doesn't sound justified; it only needs libpoppler
[10:33] <pitti> seb128: ^ so since libpoppler.la mentions libcairo.la, but libpoppler-dev doesn't depend on libcairo-dev, should I upload a new popopler with the -dev dependency in the meantime?
[10:33] <seb128> pitti: yes, do that and then give a retry to texlive
[10:33] <pitti> seb128: that would sound more appropriate to me
[10:34] <seb128> right, I was just looking at the build log to see where to add the missing depends
[10:34] <pitti> seb128: right; I'll just sync the new version from Debian afterwards which also cares about the amd64 ftbfs
[10:34] <pitti> seb128: thanks
[10:34] <seb128> libpoppler-dev seems to be correct
[10:34] <pitti> seb128: hm, while I'm at it, shall I just merge poppler?
[10:34] <StevenK> Tonio_: Great, thanks.
[10:35] <seb128> pitti: yeah
[10:35] <pitti> dholbach: stealing poppler merge from you
[10:35] <seb128> pitti: we had a discussion with dholbach some days ago
[10:35] <Riddell> that libpoppler depends on cairo is a bug, that's what libpoppler-glib is for
[10:35] <seb128> pitti: Debian renamed the libs
[10:35] <dholbach> pitti: fine with me
[10:35] <seb128> Riddell: it's not a real Depends, that's .la being annoying
[10:36] <pitti> Riddell: it's just meant to be a temporary fix until all the .la files disappear, AFAIUI
[10:36] <Riddell> ok, that makes me happy :)
[10:36] <seb128> Riddell: and the Depends will be added to the -dev which should not make a difference for kubuntu CD, etc
[10:37] <Riddell> yep
[10:39] <pitti> -Package: libpoppler-glib1
[10:39] <pitti> +Package: libpoppler1-glib
[10:39] <pitti> erk
[10:39] <pitti> -Package: libpoppler-qt1
[10:39] <pitti> +Package: libpoppler1-qt
[10:39] <pitti> -Package: libpoppler-qt4-1
[10:39] <pitti> +Package: libpoppler1-qt4
[10:40] <pitti> seb128: so it's these three we need to do transitions for
[10:40] <seb128> right
[10:40] <seb128> the rdepends are small though
[10:40] <pitti> yep, and it even seems we can sync poppler
[10:40] <seb128> cool
[10:41] <pitti> Debian doesn't install the .la file any more
[10:41] <pitti> so let's do it correctly right from the start
[10:41] <seb128> excellent
[10:42] <pitti> only thing I wonder about is 003_glib_pkgconfig_fix.patch
[10:42] <pitti> ah, that's in Debian, too, just different patch name
[10:42] <carlos> seb128, pitti: Do you think is 'safe' to update to Gutsy today?
[10:43] <pitti> carlos: it works for me at least
[10:43] <carlos> ok
[10:43] <carlos> that's enough
[10:43] <pitti> I upgrade every day
[10:43] <carlos> :-)
[10:43] <seb128> carlos: should be fine
[10:43] <carlos> thansk
[10:44] <Tonio_> siretart: ping ?
[10:44] <carlos> pitti: btw, next week we should be able to start exporting Gutsy language packs from Launchpad. Do you need to do anything special to handle that?
[10:45] <pitti> Riddell: are you fine with the poppler library transition happening now? (lib package name changes)
[10:45] <pitti> carlos: yay!
[10:45] <pitti> carlos: no, just tell me, then I'll set up the cronjobs accordingly
[10:45] <carlos> ok
[10:45] <Riddell> pitti: no time like the present, what's the name change?
[10:46] <pitti> Riddell: (rebuilds of krita, kdegraphics, and okular)
[10:46] <pitti> Riddell: libpoppler1-qt -> libpoppler-qt1, libpoppler1-qt4 -> libpoppler-qt4-1
[10:46] <Riddell> fine with me
[10:46] <pitti> Riddell: I can care for that as well, I just want to tell you to avoid conflicts with your work
[10:47] <pitti> Riddell: should be no-change rebuilds, unless you want to update any of those three ATM anyway
[10:47] <Riddell> pitti: however it seems that kdegraphics needs an svn version of poppler to be able to still use poppler
[10:48] <pitti> Riddell: not sure; when I sync the Debian package it would be more or less like the current gutsy one, except for the lib name change
[10:48] <pitti> Riddell: i. e. if it's broken after that rebuild, it's probably broken now already
[10:50] <pitti> Riddell: anyway, I won't clean up archive cruft in the next few days, so we have some time for the transition
[10:59] <pitti> Riddell: oh, there's a kdebase upload in accepted; too bad that it'll miss the poppler upload :/
[11:00] <Riddell> pitti: kdebase doesn't use poppler
[11:01] <pitti> erm, right; sorry
[11:05] <ogra> seb128, dholbach, so whats that about gnuchess being replaced by gnome-games ? what do i have to do to build apps that build-depend on gnuchess (like gcompris http://librarian.launchpad.net/7824279/buildlog_ubuntu-gutsy-i386.gcompris_8.3.1-3_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz) ?
[11:06] <seb128> ogra: keep using gnuchess
[11:07] <seb128> ogra: that's not because gnome-games ship it that you can't use the standalone version
[11:07] <ogra> hmm
[11:07] <ogra> i just realized, there was never a gnuchess in main, so it never was build depended on it
[11:07] <ogra> now gnome-gam,es provides it
[11:19] <dholbach> mdz: can you make ubuntu-dev a member of motu please? else I can't offer mentoring for ~motu (this mail would go to universe-bugs@ and not to all ubuntu-dev members)
[11:20] <dholbach> and best to make ~motu-council an administrator of ~motu, so we can do polls and stuff
[11:20] <StevenK> ogra: Compare that to linux-restricted-modules. :-P
[11:21] <mdz> dholbach: does launchpad allow a A to be a member of B when B is also a member of A?
[11:22] <mdz> dholbach: I think we should describe your problems on launchpad@ and discuss the best way to fix them, rather than trying some hacks
[11:22] <mdz> the bugmail thing in particular is already a hack that we've said should work differently
[11:22] <StevenK> Personally, I dislike having two groups.
[11:22] <dholbach> StevenK: me too
[11:23] <Amaranth> glatzor: why did you reassign bug 116751 to compiz?
[11:23] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 116751 in beryl-core "Upgrades of Edgy systems that used the former Beryl packages fail" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/116751
[11:25] <Amaranth> ah, i see, the compiz-quinn packages might be to blame
[11:26] <Amaranth> otherwise to get compiz on edgy they'd have to be using a 3rd party repo
[11:27] <Fujitsu> ogra: That's why you have two CDs these days.
[11:28] <Amaranth> that log really sucks, i wish it's just show the output of apt-get dist-upgrade :P
[11:28] <ogra> Fujitsu, well, this release would have been the first one since edubuntu exists where we managed to get a proper package from debian which we could just sync
[11:28] <Fujitsu> RUN!
[11:29] <Fujitsu> It's the attack of the clones.
[11:30] <glatzor> Amaranth: seb128 asked me already some minutes ago.
[11:30] <glatzor> Amaranth: He wanted to reassign it to beryl
[11:30] <seb128> I did
[11:30] <Hobbsee> ick, beryl.
[11:31] <ogra> heh
[11:31] <seb128> no way
[11:32] <Amaranth> Dude, run
[11:33] <Fujitsu> Aw... :(
[11:33] <LongPointyStick> Fujitsus must stay ead.
[11:33] <LongPointyStick> er, dead.
[11:33] <Mithrandir> LongPointyStick: stop killing people!
[11:33] <LongPointyStick> why?
[11:33] <Fujitsu> We are violent tonight, aren't we?
[11:33] <Fujitsu> LongPointyStick: We have few enough human resources as it is.
[11:33] <Fujitsu> Ooooooh, nasty.
[11:34] <LongPointyStick> see, not killing people.
[11:34] <LongPointyStick> not everyone, anyway.
[11:35] <pitti> Mithrandir: libhildon1-0-dbg_1.0.5-1ubuntu5_i386.deb is empty; to fix that, maybe you can remove it altogether? We don't need -dbg packages after all
[11:36] <elkbuntu> whelp.. good to see the CoC as effective as usual in here :
[11:36] <LongPointyStick> Nowhere is safe!
[11:36] <pitti> Mithrandir: and while you are at it, could you please rename libhildon1-0 to libhildon-1-0 to match the soname?
[11:38] <seb128> -1-0 is ugly
[11:38] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 116789 in Ubuntu "ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com mailing list is not working" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
[11:38] <Mithrandir> seb128: I blame upstream.
[11:39] <seb128> why do they need to version the name in the first place?
[11:39] <Hobbsee> looks suspiciously pebkac - but it's an interesting thing to report in a place that's bugs in ubuntu
[11:39] <Mithrandir> pitti: I'm not sure I want to drop -dbg, since I'd like to avoid diverging too much from upstream
[11:40] <pitti> Mithrandir: fine for me, but the package should not be empty
[11:40] <mvo> Keybuk: I take bpalogin if you don't mind (from the merges list)
[11:40] <Mithrandir> pitti: that I can agree with. :-)
[11:40] <pitti> Mithrandir: if you want to keep the name, I'll accept them; if you want to match the soname (prefered IMHO), I'll reject the current binaries
[11:41] <Mithrandir> I'll see if I can get upstream to change the soname, and if not, I'll change the package name.
[11:42] <pitti> Mithrandir: alright, thanks
[11:48] <mvo> Riddell: I took your xdg-utils merge
[11:49] <Keybuk> mvo: sure
[11:50] <Riddell> mvo: thanks
[11:52] <Hobbsee> there we go.
[11:54] <pitti> Hobbsee: /ns ghost Hobbsee <yourpassword>
[11:54] <Hobbsee> pitti: i use it so often that nwo i just use /ghost
[11:54] <Hobbsee> :)
[12:09] <Keybuk> Amaranth: ping?
[12:10] <Amaranth> Keybuk: pong
[12:10] <Keybuk> Amaranth: curious about the new compiz "git" version
[12:10] <Keybuk> is this still a pre-beryl-merge thing?
[12:10] <Amaranth> compiz isn't merging :)
[12:10] <Amaranth> the 'merge' is compiz-extra and beryl
[12:11] <Riddell> Mithrandir: could you give back kdeedu, it should be buildable now
[12:11] <Amaranth> since the compiz-extra guys had like 3 original plugins and all the beryl plugins ported to compiz
[12:11] <Keybuk> right, but that merge depends on some compiz things in git, no?
[12:11] <Amaranth> it does
[12:11] <Keybuk> is that in this git package?
[12:11] <Amaranth> this should have what they need, yes
[12:12] <Keybuk> when do we expect compiz-extra to contain the beryl guys stuff?
[12:12] <Mithrandir> Riddell: given-back
[12:13] <Riddell> thanks
[12:14] <bonii> I am using Acer Aspire 1641 NWLMI laptop with Feisty. It has got acerhk module loaded but though the wireless hardware switch works for on and off its led doesnt glow. Can someone help me out. I was pointed to this channel from #ubuntu
[12:15] <Amaranth> Keybuk: compiz-extra can probably be removed from the archive at this point
[12:15] <Amaranth> Keybuk: afaik there are no plans to maintain a 'compiz-extra' tarball any longer
[12:16] <Keybuk> ok
[12:16] <seb128> Amaranth: is the current compiz-extra compatible with the new compiz or should I remove it now?
[12:16] <Keybuk> so how do I get the beryl plugins for compiz?
[12:17] <Amaranth> seb128: it's not
[12:18] <dholbach> mdz: I'm just trying to solve the universe-bugs@ thing differently. You seem to be ubuntu-bugs@ admin - is lists.u.c just slow or do you have to approve every subscriber to the list manually?
[12:18] <Amaranth> seb128: my compiz-core package has a Breaks in there for it
[12:18] <mdz> dholbach: that list is open subscription
[12:18] <mdz> dholbach: I have no idea if any part of the process is slow
[12:19] <dholbach> mdz: don't worry - I'll try to be patient and wait then :)
[12:19] <seb128> Amaranth: will you update compiz-extra with the new plugins or get a new package?
[12:19] <gnomefreak> bonii: please join #ubuntu and ask your question.
[12:19] <Amaranth> seb128: new set of packages from the beryl guys
[12:20] <seb128> k, I'll remove compiz-extra then
[12:20] <Fujitsu> Yay! Good to see that bug source disappear for now.
[12:20] <Amaranth> hehe
[12:20] <bonii> gnomefreak: That is what I had done but there someone pointed me here saying it might be a module problem and the developers may help me out
[12:20] <gnomefreak> not in the last 4 hours
[12:21] <Keybuk> Amaranth: when do we expect the new set of packages?
[12:21] <gnomefreak> bonii: they shouldnt have sent you here for support anyway
[12:22] <Amaranth> Keybuk: i dunno, whenever they do a release
[12:22] <Amaranth> or at least have a working build system
[12:23] <Keybuk> I'll talk to Robert later and find out, I guess :)
[12:24] <seb128> Amaranth: compiz-extra removed
[12:25] <Amaranth> i don't really want to package 0.0.0+git20070525 so i'm hoping they do a release soon :)
[12:26] <Keybuk> any particular reason?
[12:26] <seb128> I'm fine packaging git ;)
[12:27] <seb128> s/fine/ok
[12:27] <seb128> if that's usuable
[12:27] <maswan> Anyone have the 2.6.15-28.53 linux-image[s]  still around? I can't seem to find them anywhere in the archive[s] , is there some special archive somewhere perhaps?
[12:27] <seb128> maswan: launchpad library
[12:27] <Amaranth> well, they don't even have a working build system yet so that's not much of a concern right now
[12:27] <Amaranth> but mostly just because i don't know what to name the packages :)
[12:27] <Fujitsu> launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.22/2.6.15-28.53, probably.
[12:28] <Amaranth> i know i'm not calling them compcomm-plugins-foo
[12:28] <Keybuk> compcomm?
[12:28] <maswan> thanks, awesome. hopefully we can go back to something that works for the time being then
[12:28] <Keybuk> compiz-beryl-plugins?
[12:28] <Fujitsu> Except for the .22 being wrong.
[12:28] <Amaranth> Keybuk: that's the temporary name
[12:28] <Amaranth> it's not beryl anymore either :)
[12:29] <Amaranth> i was thinking renaming compiz-plugins to compiz-plugins-core and calling the compcomm stuff compiz-plugins-foo
[12:29] <Amaranth> supposedly eventually non-essential plugins will move from compiz to the compcomm guys so the name will eventually make sense :)
[12:35] <Keybuk> *nods*
[12:35] <Keybuk> I'd still rather we had some package, with a temporary name, containing some plugins sooner
[12:35] <Keybuk> and sorted out issues like the name later
[12:35] <Keybuk> since that way we're spending more of the release cycle testing, debugging and fixing problems
[12:35] <Keybuk> and less waiting on a plugin drop
[12:35] <maswan> Fujitsu: well, that was quite easy to guess when I got a 404. :) Found it, hopefully we'll have a kernel again that doesn't fall over every 5 minutes.
[12:38] <cjwatson> maswan: bug #?
[12:39] <maswan> cjwatson: Working on it
[12:40] <Amaranth> Keybuk: as soon as they have a working build system and such i'll make packages
[12:41] <Keybuk> Amaranth: I'm getting white boxes where there should be drop-shadows
[12:42] <Keybuk> any ideas?
[12:42] <Amaranth> heh, seems like only nvidia doesn't get that now
[12:42] <Amaranth> i have no idea what's wrong, the hacky fix we had in feisty is still there
[12:49] <maswan> cjwatson: It happened to be a resonably important production system, so workaround first, bug reports later. :)
[12:50] <maswan> cjwatson: Now I'm just waiting for launchpad to unbreak, and I'll get you a bug #. :)
[12:54] <seb128> Keybuk: should we use the milestone for gutsy bugs rather than abusing critical?
[12:55] <pitti> seb128: I'd love to, except that the gutsy milestone was removed for some reason
[12:55] <pitti> seb128: we probably should create gutsy tasks
[12:55] <seb128> pitti: get a driver adding it back? ;)
[12:55] <seb128> no we shouldn't
[12:56] <seb128> tasks are for backport
[12:56] <seb128> pitti: I think we had no gutsy milestone
[12:56] <seb128> we just need to get one created
[12:57] <pitti> seb128: we did have one, it was renamed 'obsolete' and then removed
[12:57] <seb128> pitti: hum, weird, what happened to bugs using it?
[12:58] <Keybuk> seb128: we've been told we can't use it for this
[12:58] <seb128> !?
[12:58] <Keybuk> so bug importance will have to do for now
[12:58] <seb128> heh
[12:58] <seb128> how come we can use milestone?
[12:58] <seb128> s/can/can't
[12:59] <seb128> I'll have to use a note on my desktop to keep track of bugs now? that's plainly stupid ....
[12:59] <Hobbsee> seb128: it's progress - means you cant have unlimited bugs to keep progress of.
[12:59] <pitti> the purpose of milestones is different from the purpose of tasks, at least in my interpretation
[12:59] <pitti> tasks -> version tracking; milestones -> release management
[01:00] <seb128> tasks are for backport
[01:00] <Keybuk> it's confused the buggery out of me :p
[01:00] <seb128> there is not point to use a gutsy task since bugs apply to gutsy by default
[01:00] <pitti> seb128: well, 'version tracking' for bugs we want to backport, yes
[01:00] <Keybuk> we weren't using it the way the Malone people thought we should be, or something
[01:00] <seb128> Keybuk: who decided the change? can we discuss that somewhere?
[01:01] <seb128> well, the normal way would be to provide us an another way before removing the one we are using
[01:01] <Keybuk> *shrug* indeed
[01:01] <Keybuk> I really don't know the full story though
[01:01] <seb128> Keybuk: who knows?
[01:01] <Keybuk> the summary I have is "use Importance for now"
[01:01] <seb128> I don't want to use importance
[01:01] <Keybuk> pitti knows more than I?
[01:01] <seb128> I've plenty of polish bugs I want to look at for gutsy
[01:02] <seb128> I'll no mark hundred of bugs critical just to keep them on my list
[01:02] <persia> A tag might work, if you just want a list of bugs, but that is probably a different type of Malone abuse.
[01:02] <pitti> persia: it would be even worse, since less structure
[01:02] <seb128> and anybody can abuse from tags
[01:03] <seb128> where milestone has access control
[01:03] <Keybuk> the access control for milestone is ubuntu-drivers, no?
[01:03] <seb128> no
[01:03] <Keybuk> the problem with the milestone is it's what the release manager uses
[01:03] <pitti> it was broader, not sure how broad; ubuntu-qa maybe?
[01:03] <seb128> I think it's ubuntu-core-dev
[01:03] <seb128> might be qa
[01:03] <Keybuk> so if anyone can post to the milestone, then the release manager suddenly has 1,000 "must be fixed for release" bugs
[01:03] <pitti> all I know is 'it worked for me'
[01:04] <pitti> Keybuk: let's as Mithrandir, but I don't think that happened so far
[01:04] <seb128> Keybuk: well, it used to be that only trusted people could set it
[01:04] <pitti> to the contrary, we were often encouraged to milestone bugs
[01:04] <seb128> the "must be fixed" is important bugs milestoned
[01:05] <Keybuk> seb128: we defined that really late in the cycle as a hack around the problem that anyone could target to a milestone
[01:05] <seb128> I've plenty of low importance bugs milestone as my "todo for next stable"
[01:05] <seb128> Keybuk: I don't think it was an open setting, it has always been restricted
[01:05] <seb128> maybe to ubuntu-qa which is too much
[01:05] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: while it has been abused slightly in the past for non-rc items, it's always been my position that I'd much rather have too many bugs nominated and have them turned down than miss important bugs.
[01:05] <seb128> but it was not open
[01:06] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: do you know where the ubuntu-7.10 milestone went, ooi?
[01:06] <Mithrandir> we ended up defining critical + high + milestone as RC, where critical + milestone is "will hold up", high + milestone as "fix or document workaround".
[01:07] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: no, I thought I added one, but I can't have, or launchpad have turned forgetful.  I can't see the knob I've used to add them in the past, so I wonder if that's linked to -drivers.
[01:07] <pitti> Mithrandir: I'm 100% sure that there had been an ubuntu-7.10 milestone in the past
[01:07] <Mithrandir> then LP ate it
[01:07] <pitti> since I added it to a few bugs, and now they have a tag 'ubuntu-obsolete-milestone'
[01:07] <seb128> I've asked on #launchpad
[01:08] <Mithrandir> even more so since I haven't been able to find a way to remove milestones in the past.
[01:08] <Keybuk> the interesting thing in this period is defining release criticalness on a per-feature basis
[01:08] <Keybuk> Critical Milestoned bugs on a package before FF should mean that if the bug isn't fixed, the feature is dropped
[01:08] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: then someone needs to feed launchpad more often!
[01:09] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: maybe not as categorically, but as a rule of thumb, yes.  We expect new features to have bugs, even serious ones.
[01:10] <Keybuk> right, I'm trying to define a way to make certain bugs highly visible
[01:10] <Keybuk> the metacity->compiz migration bugs, specifically
[01:10] <seb128> high importance, ubuntu-7.10 milestone
[01:10] <Keybuk> because these are blockers for switching people from one to the other
[01:10] <Keybuk> seb128: why high and not critical
[01:11] <Mithrandir> from the rumours I've heard, sabdfl doesn't like how we're using milestones.  I'm not sure how he wants them to be used, though.
[01:11] <Keybuk> high has other things mixed in, and Malone doesn't show the milestone in the compiz bugs list
[01:11] <seb128> I'm fine with critical if that's really the importance and not a way to workaround the lack of milestone
[01:11] <Keybuk> fundamentally I want to be able to show Mark a list of bugs when he asks how's it going
[01:11] <Keybuk> and they should be obvious
[01:11] <seb128> I still want the milestone to list bugs I've to work for gutsy
[01:12] <seb128> s/work/work on
[01:12] <Keybuk> yeah, I use milestone for that myself for Upstart :p
[01:12] <seb128> Mithrandir: well, I'm fine not using milestone if there is an another way to list bugs I want to work on for gutsy
[01:13] <Keybuk> personal milestones/tags? :p
[01:13] <pitti> doko: wvstreams accepted; will you care about the soname transition?
[01:13] <Keybuk> I don't think LP can list "all bugs assigned to me and tagged FOO though?"
[01:13] <seb128> Keybuk: tag are open
[01:13] <seb128> anybody can change them
[01:13] <seb128> and I don't want random user changing my TODO :p
[01:13] <carlos> seb128, pitti: Fonts are quite small with Gutsy... Do you have the same problem?
[01:13] <pitti>   210842 | S- | iceape               | 1.1.1+u1-0ubuntu1    | nine days
[01:13] <pitti>          | * iceape/1.1.1+u1-0ubuntu1 Component: main Section: net
[01:14] <pitti> I thought we didn't want that?
[01:14] <seb128> carlos: yes, g-s-d is looking at the screen DPI now
[01:14] <Mithrandir> pitti: asac wants it, in universe.
[01:14] <seb128> pitti: I think we want
[01:14] <pitti> carlos: yes, I had; I just increased their size a little and then forgot about it
[01:14] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: afaik it can.
[01:14] <seb128> pitti: the mozilla team want all of them to universe IIRC
[01:14] <pitti> Mithrandir: erk @ even more firefox copies without security updates
[01:14] <carlos> so it's supposed to use the right value now?
[01:14] <pitti> asac: what's the point of iceape?
[01:14] <seb128> carlos: we will make that better, not sure what is right way for now though
[01:15] <seb128> carlos: yes
[01:15] <Mithrandir> pitti: indeed.
[01:15] <carlos> ok
[01:15] <maswan> cjwatson: 116815
[01:17] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: I'm wondering if it's really a usecase for bugs that depend on other bugs.
[01:17] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: like "blocked" in the debian bts.
[01:17] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: or a use case to have "custom bug lists"
[01:17] <Keybuk> and define milestones using them
[01:18] <Mithrandir> or nicknames for lists of bugs.
[01:18] <Keybuk> so anyone can create a bug list, and nominate the person/team who can accept bugs into the list
[01:18] <Keybuk> anyone can propose to any list
[01:18] <Keybuk> release could have milestone lists owned by the RM
[01:18] <Keybuk> individuals and teams could have their own lists of interesting bugs
[01:18] <Keybuk> etc.
[01:18] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: yes, and you can have more than one list, and list of lists.
[01:19] <Mithrandir> so I could have an uber-list of all my -archive and -mobile bugs, but I could also have those separate, as well as any casper bugs, any pkg-config bugs, etc.
[01:19] <Keybuk> yeah
[01:19] <Keybuk> and I could have a personal todo
[01:20] <ajmitch> yay, waiting for root fs
[01:21] <Keybuk> seb128: btw, feel free to renominate these bugs any way you want - just as long as there's an LP url I can use to see them all :p
[01:21] <asac> pitti: what point do you want to know :)
[01:21] <pitti> asac: why do we need even more copies of mozilla code in universe which more or less just differ in the name and will never get security updates?
[01:22] <Hobbsee> pitti: testing?
[01:22] <Hobbsee> MOTU council would probably vote them out, though
[01:22] <asac> pitti: more or less i want it to mentor mozillateam contributors on packaging mozilla applications
[01:22] <ajmitch> no wonder, I no longer have the right lvm stuff in initramfs, but evms is there & gives different device names
[01:22] <asac> pitti: we don't have seamonkey
[01:22] <asac> so what do you mean with "just differ in name" 
[01:23] <pitti> asac: ah, right, the iceape was the 'old' complete suite, not firefox
[01:23] <asac> pitti: exactly
[01:23] <pitti> asac: well, the argument of 'unmaintained copies' still holds, but if you wish...
[01:23] <asac> pitti: further the iceapps are the perfect playground to test things like building against xulrunner et al
[01:24] <mvo> infinity: I take your scim-chewing merge if you don't mind
[01:32] <cjwatson> how badly do we reckon livefs builds will fail today?
[01:33] <Keybuk> Amaranth: hmm, plane isn't working properly for me
[01:33] <StevenK> How badly did they fail last time?
[01:33] <cjwatson> hmm, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing/gutsy_probs.html suggests it won't be pretty :)
[01:33] <cjwatson> StevenK: not at all, since that was the final build for feisty
[01:33] <Keybuk> Amaranth: I have 12 desktops, configured in 3 rows, and the switcher shows them properly
[01:33] <Fujitsu> Is this the first gutsy run, or has something particularly special happened?
[01:33] <cjwatson> the first run
[01:33] <Keybuk> Amaranth: but I can only use Ctrl+Alt+Up and Ctrl+Alt+Down to move between two of them
[01:33] <Keybuk> Amaranth: and the switcher doesn't update
[01:33] <cjwatson> hmm, probably need to upload ubuntu-meta
[01:34] <Amaranth> Keybuk: because you have 2x2 viewports and 12 workspaces
[01:34] <Keybuk> Amaranth: this means nothing to me ...
[01:34] <Keybuk> Amaranth: in metacity, I had 12 desktops in 3 rows
[01:34] <StevenK> cjwatson: When was that generated? kdepim ought to be fixed.
[01:34] <Keybuk> Amaranth: that wasn't migrated properly to compiz, but I could set the number of desktops again in the switcher
[01:34] <Amaranth> Keybuk: you want to change number_of_desktops to 1 and change the hsize and vsize to 4x3
[01:34] <cjwatson> StevenK: there's a timestamp at the top
[01:34] <Keybuk> Amaranth: ?
[01:35] <StevenK> So there is.
[01:35] <Keybuk> Amaranth: the switcher doesn't offer those settings
[01:35] <Amaranth> Keybuk: the switcher applet needs to be patched to know about viewports
[01:35] <StevenK> Perhaps I need to order glasses.
[01:35] <Amaranth> this is in gcon
[01:35] <Amaranth> err, gconf
[01:35] <Keybuk> Amaranth: which keys do I need to change?
[01:35] <Amaranth> number_of_desktops, hsize, and vsize
[01:36] <Keybuk> ok
[01:36] <Keybuk> interesting
[01:36] <StevenK> cjwatson: a kdepim upload (4:3.5.7-1ubuntu2) was uploaded 21 hours ago, and ought to fix some of those problems.
[01:36] <cjwatson> StevenK: if it fixes it, it hasn't built *shrug*
[01:36] <StevenK> According to LP, it has.
[01:36] <cjwatson> britney does not have a habit of being wrong
[01:37] <cjwatson> it's almost invariably the packages
[01:37] <StevenK> Hrm. Binary NEW, maybe.
[01:37] <Keybuk> Amaranth: ah yes, that's much better
[01:38] <cjwatson> no kdepim in NEW
[01:38] <Hobbsee> bah.  not too much kde stuff there.
[01:38] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: no, it's uploaded now.  some of the kde stuff was given back too
[01:38] <StevenK> I daresay kdebase, kubuntu-meta, and kdepim are all related.
[01:38] <cjwatson> bear in mind that it is often not the fault of the uninstallable package
[01:39] <Hobbsee> StevenK: kubuntu-meta isnt
[01:39] <cjwatson> networkstatus-dev (the uninstallable in question) is timestamped 27 March
[01:39] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: can you tell me when that'll be run again?
[01:39] <Hobbsee> (yay for being mid kde-change)
[01:39] <cjwatson> Hobbsee: hourly; see the timestamp at the top
[01:39] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: ah, sorry, thanks.
[01:40] <Keybuk> Amaranth: also 0.5 still betrays the "windows mapped before compiz are invisible" bug
[01:40] <cjwatson> it's running at the moment actually
[01:40] <cjwatson> a publication cycle is needed there too
[01:40] <cjwatson> if it's in progress, don't worry about it
[01:40] <Hobbsee> exactly
[01:40] <StevenK> This guy seems to be one of those people who has the mistaken assumption that all web pages need to look great 640x480 and no other size.
[01:40] <Hobbsee> some of it is, i'm not quite sure how much
[01:42] <Keybuk> is there some composite-related option needed on intel chips
[01:42] <Keybuk> EXAA or something?
[01:42] <Hobbsee> not for 965, iirc
[01:42] <cjwatson> easiest way to diagnose britney problems is to debootstrap a gutsy chroot and try 'apt-get install <uninstallable>'
[01:44] <Keybuk> just seeing if there's a way to fix the white box issue
[01:48] <ogra-classmate> Keybuk: which driver are you using?
[01:48] <Keybuk> intel
[01:49] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: looks like networkstatus-dev is an obsolete binary from kdepim
[01:49] <ogra-classmate> i noticed in feiswty the -intel driver doesnt work on the 915 of the classmate, havent tried the gutsy one yet though
[01:50] <cjwatson> Hobbsee: ok, it can safely be ignored in the uninstallables list then; it'll get hoovered up at some point
[01:50] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: cool - wasnt sure if you wanted to do the hoovering now :)
[01:50] <cjwatson> pitti: sexy-python needs an inclusion report; gnome-app-install uses it now
[01:51] <pitti> yup, that doesn't sound too scary
[01:52] <ogra-classmate> Keybuk: the 810 doesnt have the whitebox issue for me, but you need the resolution tool from universe
[01:52] <Lure> Hobbsee: networkstatus-dev is needed for building knetworkmanager
[01:52] <ogra-classmate> *i810
[01:52] <Lure> Hobbsee: I suspect something was lost during 3.5.7 switch
[01:52] <Hobbsee> Lure: it has no source...or my apt-cache is buggered.
[01:52] <Hobbsee> Lure: debian doesnt seem to know about it either
[01:52] <Lure> Hobbsee: Tonio_ has added this in feisty
[01:53] <Lure> Hobbsee: yes, because they do not care about it
[01:53] <Hobbsee> ah
[01:53] <Lure> Hobbsee: this was part of feisty specs
[01:54] <Lure> Hobbsee: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuFeistyNetworking
[01:54] <Hobbsee> Lure: doesnt mention -dev, but OK
[01:55] <Lure> Hobbsee: it was part of kdepim change Tonio_ did
[01:55] <Lure> Hobbsee: it was new heaer files needed to compile knetworkmanager
[01:55] <Hobbsee> i'm saying i wonder how it got missed in the merge.
[01:56] <Hobbsee> (not how it origianlly got there)
[01:57] <Keybuk> ogra-classmate: which version of compiz?
[02:00] <otavio> Hello folks. I'm preparing a release of laptop-detect to Debian but I'd like to know if the laptop-detect-udeb is being use by Ubuntu Installer? (it's not on d-i)
[02:01] <doko> pitti: not today
[02:01] <cjwatson> otavio: no, it's not
[02:01] <pitti> doko: no, not that urgent, just eventually
[02:01] <cjwatson> (it's in universe, so can't be)
[02:03] <pitti> mr_pouit: erk @ install/disksearch:: rule of your disksearch source package
[02:04] <pitti> mr_pouit: (similarly, debian/dirs); I recommend to intltoolize that package, so that you get some sane 'upstream' rules for msgfmt'ing and installing po/gmo files
[02:06] <pitti> mr_pouit: please also clean the orig.tar.gz a bit (*.gmo and *.pyc)
[02:08] <ogra-classmate> Keybuk: feisty final
[02:08] <cjwatson> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[02:08] <cjwatson> The following packages have unmet dependen  python-qt4: Depends: python-sip4 (< 4.6) but 4.6-1ubuntu1 is to be installed
[02:08] <cjwatson> KDE folks, what's up with that?
[02:09] <StevenK> Oh bugger!
[02:09] <StevenK> I merged python-sip4, so I'll deal with -qt4.
[02:10] <cjwatson> thanks
[02:10] <siretart> I just got two mails from archive@ubuntu.com: the first one is 'Accepted boxbackup', the 2nd one is 'boxbackup rejected'
[02:10] <Riddell> StevenK: thanks, it should just need a sync from Debian
[02:10] <siretart> is this something I need to worry about? (it is a sync from debian)
[02:10] <StevenK> Riddell: Right, I'll check properly after the MOTU meeting.
[02:11] <StevenK> Heh
[02:12] <otavio> cjwatson: ok, good. I'll drop the udeb then
[02:22] <Hobbsee> right, ignoring kdebluetooth-irmcsync, kdegraphics-kfile-plugins, krita needs fixing for the poppler stuff, networkstatus-dev needs fixing due to a botched merge (yay, me), pyqt4 we know about, as well as the rdeps, and sparc kdelibs we're ignoring
[02:22] <Hobbsee> not too much to action there, at least :)
[02:26] <Hobbsee> pitti: can we borrow you in -meeting please?
[02:26] <allee> Hobbsee: fwiw: kdebluetooth-irmcsync is gone in kdelbuetooth-dbus-integration branch
[02:26] <pitti> joined
[02:27] <Hobbsee> allee: right, so it's an old binary, and Tonio_ hasnt done the merge yet?
[02:27] <Hobbsee> pitti: thanks
[02:28] <allee> Hobbsee: there's only a kdelbuetooth-dbus-integration in svn. No release yet.  I've made some experimental debs on my disk. That's all
[02:28] <Hobbsee> allee: ahhh, gotcha.
[02:33] <Keybuk> ogra-classmate: that's fine for me
[02:33] <Keybuk> ogra-classmate: it's only today's git compiz that has the white box issue
[02:35] <pitti> Fujitsu: please fix sixpack-bibtex.orig.tar.gz to include a COPYING file; I accept the source new because the current sixpack package does not have either, but it's imperative that it gets fixed
[02:37] <Fujitsu> pitti: OK, I'll try to whip one up.
[02:38] <pitti> Fujitsu: just take it from /usr/share/common-licenses and check that the files are actuually GPLed :)
[02:38] <Fujitsu> Yeah, the last bit is generally the problem.
[02:38] <pitti> Fujitsu: hm, the 'other' sixpack has the very same problem; very confusing
[02:39] <Fujitsu> Heheh, I love these ambiguities.
[02:47] <saispo> BenC: ping ?
[02:47] <BenC> saispo: pong
[02:47] <saispo> hi :)
[02:48] <saispo> kernel source for feisty are not accessible with git on kernel.org now ?
[02:48] <pitti> yay, texlive-bin built on all arches!
[02:48] <seb128> pitti: I'm remove-package evince-gtk
[02:48] <Keybuk> saispo: http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git
[02:49] <seb128> pitti: evince does multibuild now with a gtk variant
[02:49] <pitti> seb128: ++
[02:49] <pitti> seb128: oooh, great!
[02:49] <seb128> ;)
[02:52] <pkl_> saispo: git is now on kernel.ubuntu.com, git-clone git://kernel.ubuntu.com/<project>, for feisty, replace <project> with ubuntu/ubuntu-feisty.git
[02:54] <robertj> someone on the payroll really ought to get in touch with dell to have them add a "tell me more" (or whatever dell calls it) link to the canonical support offerings that tells you what the difference is between basic and standard support
[02:55] <robertj> the information is there on the first page, but usually they have links inside the customization area for each machine that fill you in on details
[02:56] <robertj> apparently the preferred term is "Help Me Choose", you can see it on the pages before and after maintanance selection when customizing a machine
[03:00] <muxecoid> Help me pick an IDE for C/C++ please. My reqs for IDE: 1. GUI C, C++ support. 1.1. Method/function trees. 1.2. Autocompletion offering completion options of proper type. 2. Automatically generates configure scripts for make (maybe jam?). 2.1. Create tarballs easily. 2.2. Adding non-source files to the project. 3. GUI for Revision control support. 3.1. Store different versions/branches in different dirs and switch easily between them. 3.2. GUI for c
[03:00] <saispo> BenC, pkl_, Keybuk : ok, big thanks :)
[03:00] <maswan> BenC: I can only give you a dmesg of .53 running on that machine, still interested?
[03:01] <Hobbsee> muxecoid: #ubuntu
[03:01] <Hobbsee> muxecoid: please see the /topic
[03:01] <BenC> maswan: really need dmesg from the new one to see if there's some incriminating evidence before the crashes, but .53 is a good start
[03:02] <muxecoid> Sorry, I just want to know what IDe is used by ubuntu developers :)
[03:02] <maswan> BenC: I can give you that today, I can try to reproduce this under artifical load on .55 on monday.
[03:02] <Hobbsee> muxecoid: vi, emacs.
[03:02] <BenC> maswan: thanks
[03:02] <muxecoid> Thanks.
[03:02] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Good one!
[03:02] <thom> ed would've been a better answer
[03:02] <Hobbsee> haha
[03:02] <StevenK> Hah
[03:03] <Hobbsee> "thou shalt read the topic, or thou shalt have an appointment with the pointy stick"
[03:03] <StevenK> Is that the offical motto of ubuntu-ops?
[03:03] <Hobbsee> nah...
[03:03] <Hobbsee> i dont think we have one
[03:03] <Hobbsee> besides, i'm not on the council anymore.
[03:03] <Hobbsee> not even proposed for it :)
[03:04] <ogra-classmate> BenC: i'm online with the ralink ;)
[03:05] <robertj> when a spec is marked review, who is it that actually does the review?
[03:06] <Hobbsee> smurf and co, i believe
[03:07] <robertj> just wanted to make sure it magically happened and I wasn't supposed to poke someone
[03:08] <Fujitsu> It depends if it's a slightly sane (probably targetted) spec.
[03:08] <Hobbsee> not sure
[03:11] <robertj> Fujitsu: Proposed for gusty, low priority
[03:11] <Hobbsee> robertj: are you writing it?
[03:11] <Hobbsee> s/writign/implementing/
[03:12] <robertj> Hobbsee: maybeish
[03:12] <robertj> Hobbsee: there is some gtk+ stuff I can do it will just take time but I have a possible volunteer
[03:12] <Hobbsee> ah
[03:12] <robertj> the other is changes to the pam stack and adding reqs to ubuntu-minimal
[03:12] <persia> Mithrandir: please give back gmsh on ia64 (thanks pitti)
[03:12] <Hobbsee> i suspect you can just implement it without approval, but dont quote me on that
[03:14] <robertj> Hobbsee: apart from the gtk+ stuff there isn't really anything to implement I don't think. It should be like a 3 line diff
[03:14] <Hobbsee> cool
[03:14] <robertj> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SimpleSambaIntegrationSpec
[03:14] <Hobbsee> i'd suggest just doing it, then
[03:15] <pitti> persia: due to texlive?
[03:15] <persia> pitti: Yes.
[03:16] <pitti> Mithrandir: please hold on with give-backs on ia64 due to texlive; it's not yet in the arhcive
[03:18] <pitti> persia: curious; libkpathsea 2007-9 is there for ia64, but not texlive-base-bin
[03:18] <Fujitsu> Binary NEW?
[03:19] <pitti> ah, no
[03:19] <pitti> it's in universe on ia64
[03:20] <pitti> done
[03:27] <BenC> ogra-classmate: firmware working?
[03:27] <pitti> BenC: good morning
[03:27] <BenC> pitti: Hey
[03:27] <pitti> BenC: ISTR that we still need to talk about kernel crashes and apport?
 bug #116846
[03:28] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 116846 in pam "patch to add directory inclusion for pam config file" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/116846
[03:29] <ompaul> I will be back as soon as I can be
[03:29] <ompaul> woops wrong window
[03:29] <otavio> cjwatson: Hi. Is possible to sync laptop-detect with the new sid one?
[03:30] <ogra-classmate> BenC: compioled from the latest serialmonkey CVS hourly tarball ... no NM support, but works
[03:31] <BenC> pitti: yeah...the current situation is that pulling vmcore works...but it's a map of the entire memory area, so a command needs to be run on it to shrink it down (will be included in kexec-tools, so if vmcore is there, so should this command)
[03:31] <cjwatson> otavio: it'll go onto the merge list automatically
[03:31] <ogra-classmate> btw compiling stuff on the classmate isnt as bad as you would expect :)
[03:32] <cjwatson> otavio: (http://merges.ubuntu.com/main.html)
[03:32] <ogra-classmate> BenC: the Makefile from the ralink tarball was broken somehow
[03:32] <pitti> BenC: IIRC that vmcore file should be picked up by the apport init script (maybe indirectly) and be converted to a proper apport file, right?
[03:32] <cjwatson> otavio: if all the changes have been incorporated, whoever looks at it will verify that and ask for a sync
[03:33] <ogra-classmate> moving the firmware to /etc/Wireless/... didnt helpp either
[03:33] <otavio> cjwatson: AFAIK they all were merge
[03:34] <otavio> cjwatson: if something is missing I'd like to push on it to avoid diverting without reason
[03:34] <BenC> pitti: right, but unless you want a 1G file in attachment, it's useless as-is :)
[03:34] <pitti> BenC: right; I mean, it is no problem to call any script during that process
[03:34] <BenC> pitti: apport should pick up that it's there, and if the user wants to include it with the bug report, then apport should preprocess it with a command to bring it down to something reasonable like 70Megs
[03:34] <pitti> BenC: well, it'll slow down boot a bit, but *shrug*
[03:35] <BenC> pitti: I'll email you details today
[03:35] <pitti> BenC: ok, thanks; I'll think about it when I understand the details better
[03:35] <cjwatson> otavio: sure, understood; somebody will look at it once the new version is on the merge list
[03:36] <pitti> BenC: is there an easy way to get a core of a running kernel? that would be nice for the testsuite
[03:36] <cjwatson> otavio: we are working our way steadily through that list at the moment, and don't otherwise need reminders :-)
[03:36] <BenC> pitti: actually, there is...the command that processes vmcore, can also process /proc/kcore the same way
[03:37] <pitti> BenC: aah, that vmcore file is nothing else than a copy of /proc/kcore? nice
[03:37] <BenC> pitti: so for the testsuite you could use /proc/kcore instead of /var/crash/vmcore
[03:37] <pitti> that sounds fine
[03:37] <BenC> pitti: Basically, but not exactly
[03:37] <pitti> I'm just keen on having tests for everything I add to apport
[03:40] <otavio> cjwatson: ok
[03:46] <ogra-classmate> BenC: so what do i do with that working driver now? (even though i'd appreciate NM support)
[03:47] <BenC> ogra-classmate: I'll get the driver packaged up in linux-driver-backports for feisty
[03:47] <ogra-classmate> did you manage to get the driver from the ralink tarball building?
[03:47] <BenC> the tarball I got with NM support
[03:47] <ogra-classmate> i didnt manage to get that to build here
[03:57] <Hobbsee> Lure: ping?
[03:58] <Lure> Hobbsee: pong
[03:58] <Hobbsee> Lure: do you know if networkstatus-dev just needed to be added back, as is, to kdepim, or if more was to be added?
[03:59] <Lure> Hobbsee: just need to be added back (it is juct couple of .h files afair)
[03:59] <Hobbsee> Lure: great, okay, willfix.
[04:00] <Lure> Hobbsee: see feisty package: http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_contents.pl?searchmode=filelist&word=networkstatus-dev&version=feisty&arch=i386
[04:00] <Hobbsee> yeah, i found it
[04:16] <pitti> doko: yay, ia32-libs is in anastacia
[04:17] <sbalneav> cjwatson: Could you help me with a bit of an ssh coding question?
[04:17] <seb128> pitti: did you accept evince-gtk?
[04:17] <pitti> seb128: accept? it's not in NEW
[04:17] <cjwatson> sbalneav: I can trry
[04:17] <cjwatson> try
[04:17] <seb128> I mean the new binary from evince
[04:18] <pitti> seb128: no, why? evince-gtk exists since dapper
[04:18] <seb128> pitti: ah, it failed to build
[04:18] <sbalneav> Should we /query, or do it here?
[04:18] <seb128> pitti: right, but it's built by an another source package now (and there is a new -dbg)
[04:18] <doko> pitti: cool. finally
[04:18] <pitti> seb128: if a binary moves between sources it doesn't need NEWing
[04:18] <pitti> seb128: ah, for the -dbg then
[04:19] <sbalneav> Here's the issue: slow terminals are having problems with ldm being written in python
[04:19] <sbalneav> so we need to reimplement in C
[04:19] <seb128> pitti: I was just wondering why it's not in NEW, and the explanation is "cc: /build/buildd/texlive-bin-2007/build/source/inst/lib/libkpathsea.so: No such file or directory"
[04:19] <seb128> pitti: I hate .la
[04:19] <cjwatson> sbalneav: here's fine
[04:19] <sbalneav> we plumb the connection in ssh
[04:19] <mneptok> seb128: San Francisco is nicer
[04:19] <pitti> seb128: erk, which packages' fault is that?
[04:20] <seb128> pitti: hum, in fact doesn't look like a .la problem. I would blame texlive-bin
[04:20] <seb128> gicmo: Alter! How is gutsy going for you? ;)
[04:20] <sbalneav> However, I need to control ssh via the terminal (for passing the password), mainly becaus the ssh-askpass mechanism doesn't work if you're sshing into a machine with an expired password (i.e. pam's going to ask you for a new one)
[04:20] <seb128> pitti: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=167030
[04:20] <seb128> ups
[04:20] <ubotu> Gnome bug 167030 in gconf "/tmp not cleaned up, which causes bad results if user's UID changes" [Critical,New]  
[04:20] <seb128> pitti: http://librarian.launchpad.net/7834709/buildlog_ubuntu-gutsy-i386.evince_0.9.0-1ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[04:21] <gicmo> seb128: pretty good so far!
[04:21] <seb128> rock on ;)
[04:21] <gicmo> some font minor font issues
[04:21] <gicmo> but fixed that
[04:21] <sbalneav> so what I need is the C magic necessary to control ssh like how something like expect would do it
[04:21] <seb128> gicmo: the font size issue is g-s-d looking at the screen DPI now
[04:21] <seb128> gicmo: that's the changes federico did
[04:21] <seb128> I'm not sure which that gives an ugly result
[04:21] <cjwatson> sbalneav: I'd be pretty wary of that, because you're going to end up relying on human-readable text which might well change between ssh versions
[04:22] <pitti> seb128: I don't know; the command specifies /build/buildd/texlive-bin-2007/build/source/inst/lib/libkpathsea.so explicitly as part of the linking
[04:22] <sbalneav> cjwatson: agreed, but I don't feel like trying to fix ssh-askpass functionality to handle pam password expires :) that's a little beyond my ken.
[04:22] <pitti> seb128: and of course that doesn't exist
[04:22] <seb128> pitti: it must get it from a .pc or something
[04:22] <seb128> pitti: I'm trying to figure where
[04:23] <seb128> texlive-bin 2007-9 (tar) [70,7MB] 
[04:23] <seb128> hum
[04:23] <pitti> seb128: libkpathsea-dev ships a .la file, let me check
[04:24] <seb128> I've -8 atm
[04:24] <seb128> $ grep buildd /usr/lib/libkpathsea.la
[04:24] <seb128> libdir='/build/buildd/texlive-bin-2007/build/source/inst/lib'
[04:24] <seb128> hate hate hate
[04:24] <StevenK> Fun.
[04:25] <seb128> pitti: ^
[04:25] <pitti> seb128: shall I upload a -9ubuntu1 and kill the .la?
[04:25] <Mithrandir> pitti: please.
[04:25] <seb128> yes please
[04:25] <sbalneav> cjwatson: any suggestions?
[04:25] <cjwatson> sbalneav: I'm just looking at a few things
[04:25] <sbalneav> cool, thx
[04:25] <Mithrandir> I think we should make shipping .la files RC.
[04:25] <pitti> ok, I'll do that and send it as a bug towards Debian
[04:25] <pitti> they are fast with accepting patches
[04:26] <seb128> k
[04:26] <seb128> I'm pondering make cdbs debhelper rule use clean-la.mk by default
[04:26] <Mithrandir> seb128: doit.
[04:30] <mthaddon> Launchpad is going down in 15 mins for a code update. Estimated downtime is 10 mins or less.
[04:30] <pitti> seb128, Mithrandir: uploaded
[04:30] <bonii> j #fedora
[04:32] <cjwatson> sbalneav: from the ssh end, you just need to make sure to invoke ssh with -t
[04:32] <sbalneav> ok
[04:33] <cjwatson> sbalneav: the trick is going to be getting hold of the tty though
[04:34] <cjwatson> actually, it might be easier to allocate a pty/tty in the wrapper, and make sure that ssh inherits that as its controlling tty
[04:34] <pitti> seb128: ok, sent to BTS; with some luck we can sync it again in a few days
[04:35] <sbalneav> cjwatson: any pointers to some example code on that? :)
[04:35] <cjwatson> you can use openpty to allocate it, and ioctl(TIOCSCTTY) to make it the controlling tty
[04:35] <cjwatson> sshpty.c in openssh itself would be one place to look
[04:36] <cjwatson> you can then read from / write to the master end of the pty
[04:36] <sbalneav> Thankee!
[04:37] <cjwatson> you shouldn't then need to use ssh -t, since it'll have a tty already
[04:40] <cjwatson> sometimes all you need is to be able to look stuff up faster than the next guy ...
[04:41] <sbalneav> That'll get me pointed at the right direction.  excellent.
[04:41] <Hobbsee> heh
[04:43] <Keybuk> sweet
[04:43] <Keybuk> keybuk.compiz_clue++
[04:45] <seb128> Keybuk: what videocard do you have?
[04:46] <Keybuk> seb128: -intel
[04:46] <Keybuk> I have the same bug
[04:50] <Keybuk> heh
[04:50] <Keybuk> expo is kinda broken
[04:50] <mvo> WTF wiki.ubuntu.com just ate my changes
[04:51] <mvo> "The authentication database is temporarily unavailable. Anonymous access only.You are not allowed to edit this page."
[04:51] <Hobbsee> mvo: [00:29]  <mthaddon> Launchpad is going down in 15 mins for a code update. Estimated downtime is 10 mins or less.
[04:51] <Keybuk> ah, expo is broken unless it's loaded before fade
[04:52] <mvo> thans Hobbsee
[04:55] <pitti> mvo: back button doens't help?
[04:55] <pitti> mvo: btw, you might want to take a look at editmoin. It's 100% pure love
[04:55] <ogra-classmate> pitti: POST data
[04:55] <mvo> pitti: I use it a lot, just not this time
[04:56] <mvo> pitti: maybe back helps once LP is back, currently it keeps telling me editing is impossible
[04:56] <mvo> pitti: I don't know if it still knows about my changes
[04:56] <pitti> hm, this is still not packaged
[04:56] <ogra-classmate> sponsor a MOUT ;)
[04:56] <ogra-classmate> MOTU
[04:57] <pitti> ogra-classmate: oh, I was going to do it myself now, since spending 4.5 hours on the NEW queue bored me
[04:57] <pitti> but if someone is interested in packaging it, sure
[04:57] <Hobbsee> pitti: s/bored me/ made me insane/?
[04:57] <pitti> Hobbsee: just avoid the letter 'q' for a while :)
[04:57] <Hobbsee> pitti: q?
[04:57] <ogra-classmate> heh
[04:57] <pitti> Hobbsee: the alias for 'queue'
[04:57] <crimsun> binary NEW will have something in it soon ;)
[04:57] <Hobbsee> is "q" accept or something?
[05:00] <cjwatson> Hobbsee: it's the tool to manipulate the queue
[05:00] <Hobbsee> ahhh, i see
[05:00] <cjwatson> queue override, queue accept, queue reject, etc.
[05:00] <Hobbsee> gotcha
[05:00] <Hobbsee> + queue block_this_uploader_from_the_archive
[05:01] <Keybuk> seb128: it only seems to affect panel and transients though
[05:01] <Keybuk> if I set the shadowing to toplevel only in the decoration prefs, it's fine for those windows
[05:33] <kylem> maswan, hey, i'll have a test kernel for you in a bit.
[05:37] <maswan> kylem: thanks, but I'm not going to be onsite until monday most likely.
[05:37] <kylem> ok.
[05:38] <kylem> basically your setup is ultra-crackful.
[05:38] <kylem> like, afs... wtf. :)
[05:38] <maswan> heh. :)
[05:39] <maswan> anyway, I'm already late for dinner, so later in a bit. :)
[05:58] <pitti> ogra-classmate: so, it's packaged now :) just waiting for niemeyer to release a good upstream tarball with a license
[05:59] <gnomefreak> are we getting rid of gimp or is this a bug?
[05:59] <pitti> gnomefreak: poppler transition going on
[05:59] <gnomefreak> ah ok
[05:59] <ogra-classmate> pitti: ah, cool
[06:17] <maswan> kylem: hmm. do you think our setup is crackful enough that noone else is likely to get bitten by this? (if it is just us, I'll just postpone it totally to monday, otherwise I'll try testing it tomorrow)
[06:18] <kylem> maswan, yeah, i'm pretty sure... ben pointed out you see your first oom (on a 1page (4K) allocation) within 5 minutes of boot on .53
[06:20] <maswan> kylem: well, normally it is a bit smoother than that, this was under max load (booting with lots of queued things, as compared to tasks dropping in now and then), but yes.
[06:21] <pitti> seb128, Mithrandir: hmm, I uploaded new texlive-bin almost two hours ago, and no sign of it in Soyuz
[06:21] <seb128> did you get an accepted mail?
[06:22] <pitti> hm, no
[06:22] <ogra-classmate> did you upload to debian ? :)
[06:22] <pitti> nope :)
[06:22] <pitti> oh, yay
[06:22] <pitti> 15:30:04 DEBUG   Considering changefile texlive-bin_2007-9ubuntu1_source.changes
[06:22] <pitti> 15:30:04 DEBUG   Overriding distribution: ubuntu
[06:22] <pitti> 15:30:04 DEBUG   Finding fresh policy
[06:22] <pitti> 15:30:04 ERROR   Unhandled exception from processing an upload
[06:22] <pitti>  -> http://librarian.launchpad.net/7835045/yVsG6yuaidYPcjD3NeIWVsBdyq0.txt (ERROR:  column "gotchi_heading" does not exist at character 109
[06:22] <pitti> cpro1: ^ any idea?
[06:23] <ogra-classmate> hackergochies are part of the upload process now ? wow
[06:23] <seb128> pitti: distribution "ubuntu", is that normal?
[06:23] <ogra-classmate> :)
[06:24] <pitti> seb128: last time I checked that's the distro we all use :) but I don't know, I guess so
[06:24] <seb128> pitti: k, just to be sure you didn't use "ubuntu" instead of "gutsy" to the changelog entry ;)
[06:24] <seb128> iz soyuz bog
[06:25] <pitti> Distribution: gutsy
[06:25] <desrt> WORD
[06:26] <pitti> desrt: dude! how are you?
[06:26] <desrt> pretty fine
[06:26] <desrt> chillin' in the sun
[06:26] <seb128> it's too hot here
[06:27] <seb128> 31C
[06:27] <desrt> 27C here
[06:28] <pitti> oh, shit
[06:28] <pitti> seb128: it just occured to me that we cannot quite sync poppler yet, I need to add Conflicts:/Replaces: to the new libraries for the old names
[06:34] <pitti> seb128: ok, it's in accepted now
[06:36] <seb128> pitti: Debian renamed it as well, they didn't use the Conflicts, Replaces?
[06:37] <cjwatson> pitti: I put https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportSexyPython in the queue, btw
[06:37] <cjwatson> (since it existed already)
[06:37] <pitti> ah, thanks
[06:38] <pitti> seb128: I don't see how that works without; you cannot install them side-by-side, since the .so name is identical
[06:39] <seb128> pitti: I'm just wondering why Debian didn't use a Conflicts,Replaces
[06:39] <seb128> they changed the naming for Debian so they should need it as well
[06:40] <pitti> seb128: indeed
[06:40] <seb128> maybe not the qt4 package though
[06:41] <Treenaks> oh well.. I guess this'll fix itself
[06:41] <seb128> I'm sure they would be happy to apply the diff so we can sync though
[06:41] <seb128> hi Treenaks
[06:41] <seb128> Treenaks: did you read my question about pppoe yesterday?
[06:41] <pitti> seb128: yep, I'll send it to them
[06:41] <seb128> pitti: thanks
[06:49] <pitti> seb128: uploaded and sent
[06:49] <pitti> ugh, what a Friday; just archive stuff and package fixing, nothing productive...
[06:50] <seb128> pitti: archive is productive
[06:50] <seb128> you unblock other people ;)
[07:20] <astro73_> I have code, how do I turn that into a package for ubuntu?
[07:21] <ion_> Try #ubuntu-motu
[07:21] <astro73_> k, thanx
[07:53] <ogra-classmate> hmm, sylpheed has no .desktop entry ? :/
[08:20] <carlos> mvo_: ddtp template for universe is approved now, it should be imported soon
[08:28] <TheInfinity> hello ... one question ... i'm active in (k)ubuntu support a little bit and most questions we get are about video drivers. the user can't repair anything if installation failes, they dont know how to use vi and xorg.conf and they dont get help via console so that they have to switch to windows - or saying that *ubuntu is crap. iperhaps a solution ... would it be possible to have 2 xorg.confs?
[08:28] <TheInfinity> if it fails loading the main file it loads something like an failsafe file to give the user a gui?
[08:32] <Lure> TheInfinity: check this https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/bullet-proof-x
[08:34] <mrsn0> TheInfinity i do similar on another network, 10 says 99% of issues are ati ? ;)
[08:34] <TheInfinity> ah ok somewhere else had this idea, too - good :)
[08:34] <TheInfinity> mrsn0: the last ones we get were nvidia
[08:34] <TheInfinity> most because of not good reading of the user
[08:34] <mrsn0> the new restricted drivers manager in feisty seems to help lots of new users
[08:35] <TheInfinity> but if xorg does not start the GUI-user sits there and thinks "ooohhh ok"
[08:35] <mrsn0> but for people with 8800gtx or recent ati cards, i mention 'envy' to them in the mean time
[08:35] <mrsn0> i look forward to unbreakable X :D
[08:35] <ogra-classmate> well, with restricted-manager it shouldnt happen that the user sits in fron of a not starting xserver
[08:36] <ogra-classmate> it does a ton of checks before switching the driver
[08:36] <TheInfinity> ogra-classmate: i just had this some minutes ago so i got this idea - but i was not the first, this whitepaper is the right direction i think :)
[08:36] <mrsn0> indeed
[08:37] <TheInfinity> users try it manually when it does not work automaticly ...
[08:37] <TheInfinity> because they want to try things (which they dont understand)
[08:37] <ogra-classmate> TheInfinity: 1i'm talking about the guio tool to switch to a proprietary driver, not about the spec
[08:37] <ogra-classmate> that spec is three or more releases old
[08:38] <TheInfinity> hmm .. i'm kubuntu user ... is it possible that this gui is not that perfect in kubuntu?
[08:38] <TheInfinity> i never used it because i like vi ;)
[08:38] <ogra-classmate> TheInfinity: restricted-manager as we ship it in feisty
[08:39] <ogra-classmate> i dont think its in kubuntu at all yet
[08:39] <TheInfinity> ok i just wonderes about it ...
[08:39] <TheInfinity> so this should be the first thing to do
[08:39] <ogra-classmate> there are only so many developers that can port stuff over ;)
[08:39] <ogra-classmate> so kubuntu is a bit behind with some new things usually
[08:40] <ogra-classmate> (which is not a bad thing since the most evil bugs were squashed in ubuntu then )
[08:40] <TheInfinity> somehow a pitty because germany is KDE country and lots of people search alternatives for suse which becomes not really better ....
[08:42] <ogra-classmate> TheInfinity: only because germans dont know whats good for them ;) 
[08:43] <TheInfinity> *g*
[08:43] <ogra-classmate> ich versuch seit gnome 1.2 die leute zu ueberzeugen ;)
[08:43] <ogra-classmate> but at some point i gave up :)
[08:43] <TheInfinity> i use kde for myself - its all a question of getting used to it and personal likes and dislikes
[08:43] <ogra-classmate> right
[08:44] <TheInfinity> ok that means answering video driver questions until guty
[08:44] <TheInfinity> thats a good aim ;)
[08:45] <ogra-classmate> well, you could help porting the app over :) Riddell surely needs every helping hand
[08:45] <tsmithe> ogra-classmate, classmate eh. how's ubuntu on it?
[08:46] <ogra-classmate> tsmithe: not at all :P
[08:46] <ogra-classmate> its edubuntu ! ;)
[08:46] <TheInfinity> ogra-classmate: after my vordiplom i'll try *g*
[08:46] <ogra-classmate> and its great 
[08:46] <tsmithe> ok. how's /ed/ubuntu on it? :P
[08:46] <ogra-classmate> a tad slow but fully functional
[08:46] <tsmithe> is it just a smaller, lower-powered normal x86 laptop?
[08:46] <tsmithe> or is it funky?
[08:46] <ogra-classmate> evolution doesnt like my 2gig mailbox though
[08:47] <ogra-classmate> its a standard celeron M 900 with 256 M ram and 2gig flshdisk
[08:47] <tsmithe> hehe
[08:47] <tsmithe> so it's not too bad then
[08:47] <ogra-classmate> nope
[08:47] <ogra-classmate> i even compiled some things on it todat
[08:47] <tsmithe> bit more ram might be nice tho..
[08:47] <ogra-classmate> *today
[08:47] <TheInfinity> ogra-classmate: kmail does not like mine, too - thats something which i find somehow a pitty ... no real groupware client like outlook running with linux ...
[08:48] <tsmithe> ogra-classmate, :S how was that?
[08:49] <ogra-classmate> tsmithe: great, i got my wireless card working now
[08:49] <tsmithe> it's not an intel wireless standard jobby?
[08:50] <ogra-classmate> TheInfinity: well, eveo is usually the only thing apart from mutt that can handle mine, but i'm running all that on a 2 gig usbflash drive (including OS and /home)
[08:50] <ogra-classmate> tsmithe: you would think so ....
[08:50] <ogra-classmate> but apparently thats to expensive :P
[08:50] <tsmithe> so what is it then?
[08:51] <tsmithe> (please not broadcom :P)
[08:51] <ogra-classmate> price is the most essential criteria for this thing
[08:51] <ogra-classmate> ralink
[08:52] <TheInfinity> ogra-classmate: i just was in conflict with the idea of having shared adressbooks, shared kalenders with sending schedule entrys around and so on + linux - bad for a guy who always sayd outlook is crap ;)
[08:52] <tsmithe> hmm i've had awful troubles with ralink..
[08:52] <ogra-classmate> evo sint so far away from outlook
[08:53] <ogra-classmate> tsmithe: me too ... still not solved 100% but nearly
[08:53] <TheInfinity> ogra-classmate: it becomes better and better, yes
[08:53] <TheInfinity> i hope it will soon be a real alternative for users who are used to outlook
[08:53] <tsmithe> ogra-classmate, do you have a good link for docs? (i'd rather use the ralink than my acx100 if i could)
[08:53] <TheInfinity> this would break one one the main office arguments for windows
[08:54] <ogra-classmate> tsmithe: well, i just compiled the tarball from serialmonkey.org
[08:54] <tsmithe> heh ok
[08:54] <ogra-classmate> tsmithe: but intel is helping a lot with that, the ralink driver will get a lot better soon
[08:54] <tsmithe> oh cool
[08:54] <ogra-classmate> read:gutsy
[08:54] <tsmithe> indeed
[08:55] <tsmithe> it's good to have their folks working with us
[08:55] <ogra-classmate> yeah, totally
[09:03] <carlos> mvo_: your .pot file is now imported
[09:06] <ompaul> ogra-classmate, you got something called email, you may have heard of it :)
[09:07] <johanbr> ogra-classmate: There was just a question in #ubuntu-kernel why the ralink driver isn't in the Gutsy kernel build. Has it been taken down for improvements?
[09:07] <ogra-classmate> johanbr: BenC is actively working on it
[09:08] <BenC> johanbr: it is there, but it's in linux-ubuntu-modules
[09:08] <ogra-classmate> ompaul: yeah i just got sylpheed running on this tiny thing and yours was the first mail i got, thanks
[09:08] <johanbr> Oh, I see. Thank you.
[09:09] <ompaul> ogra-classmate, :) hope you can follow my ramblings
[09:09] <ogra-classmate> ompaul: i could follow them qafter several liters of beer, so i suspecdt i'll mange the same while being sober ;)
[09:10] <ogra-classmate> i'm using imap ....
[09:10] <ogra-classmate> but over all i have 200000 messages in about 50 folders
[09:11] <ogra-classmate> somehow the flashdrive is to slow for that ... but sylpheed works somehow
[09:12] <ompaul> video updates only 
[09:13] <mvo_> carlos: super! thanks
[09:14] <luisbg> hey ompaul 
[09:15] <ompaul> luisbg, hey, I asked you something about 5 days ago, check your messages, if you can't find it I'll find my logs
[09:16] <ogra-classmate> i wonder if balsa has still an upstream
[09:16] <ogra-classmate> its a beautiful small mail app ....
[09:16] <luisbg> ompaul, yeah, wanted to talk to you about that
[09:17] <ompaul> luisbg, pm me 
[09:17] <ompaul> we are slightly off topic for here :)
[09:17] <luisbg> true
[09:27] <luisbg> elmo, ping
[10:12] <glatzor> hello bryce
[10:14] <bryce> heya glatzor!
[10:15] <glatzor> bryce: displayconfig now has got an --xconfig option that allows to specify an alternative config file. Furthermore it now survives a config file without any screens, monitors and graphics cards.
[10:16] <glatzor> bryce: quite trivial changes. I added a fallback xorg.conf to my repository too.
[10:16] <glatzor> bryce: displayconfig will try to detect the gfx card and if it fails it adds a vesa card
[10:17] <glatzor> bryce: bzr co http://glatzor.de/bzr/displayconfig-gtk/sebi
[10:18] <glatzor> bryce: sudo ./displayconfig-gtk --data-dir=data -xconfig=data/xorg.conf.fallback
[10:18] <glatzor> small typo. should be: --xconfig=data/xorg.conf.fallback
[10:19] <rodrigo> please, how do i know how the package was configured?
[10:19] <glatzor> mvo_: aren't you supposed to be on vacations?
[10:19] <mvo_> glatzor: tomorrow :)
[10:19] <ogra-classmate> glatzor: oooh, can we have it without -gtk as well ?
[10:19] <rodrigo> what options was used on "./configure"... 
[10:19] <glatzor> mvo_: still two hours to work :)
[10:19] <ogra-classmate> glatzor: i.e. scriptable
[10:20] <ogra-classmate> that would give me a major improvement in ltsp
[10:20] <mvo_> glatzor: haha, right
[10:20] <glatzor> ogra-classmate: for sure. all the magic is done by the guidance backend.
[10:20] <mvo_> glatzor: I did not notice that its that late already
[10:20] <ogra-classmate> cool
[10:20] <bryce> glatzor: excellent
[10:20] <mvo_> displayconfig rock da house
[10:21] <glatzor> ogra-classmate: bryce: but I am not sure how update-to-date the used pcitables are.
[10:25] <bryce> glatzor: I had a question on the MonitorDB -- where does this info come from?  It seems a tad out of date and I'm wondering if there's an easy way for us to refresh the data, other than manually poking in values for unsupported monitors?
[10:29] <bryce> glatzor, great to hear of the fixes in displayconfig-gtk.  If I have time today I'll try to roll out a new package, and play with it some more
[10:30] <mvo_> bryce, glatzor: I push a displayconfig-gtk/ubuntu branch to the displayconfig-gtk group so that we can all work on a shared tree 
[10:31] <mvo_> bryce: the data comes from kde guidance, I'm not sure where that comes from, but it would be cool if we could write a converter to get the information form discover and the fedora display-settings into dc-gtk
[10:31] <bryce> bdmurray, cool thanks for the obsolete bug cleanup work :-)
[10:32] <bryce> mvo, yeah I agree
[10:32] <bryce> mvo, any idea where guidance gets the data?
[10:33] <mvo_> bryce: unfortunately not :/ we should just ask them :) very friendly people
[10:33] <glatzor> bryce: I am writing an email to simon at the moment
[10:33] <Lure> bryce: just pink sebas or _Sime in #kubuntu-devel
[10:33] <glatzor> bryce: mvo_: So no problem to add a further question :)
[10:33] <Lure> s/pink/ping/
[10:33] <mvo_> thanks glatzor
[10:34] <bryce> mvo, discover may be a good way to work around if no info is in the db, but I don't know if we can trust it 100%, so getting up-to-date data into MonitorsDB would be ideal
[10:34] <mvo_> *nod*
[10:34] <bryce> I've wondered if we could write scripts to scrape the pdf's from manufacturer's sites
[10:34] <bryce> or alternatively if we could set up a web form for users to enter data for missing monitors, that can be reviewed and added
[10:35] <mvo_> I wonder how much data is already out there in other free packages? e.g. SaX or the fedora thing
[10:36] <mvo_> geting data directly from the users is good too
[10:38] <bryce> mvo, *nod* that's a thought too
[10:38] <bryce> this is why I'm curious about the origins of the info from guidance
[10:39] <bryce> as a test, the past couple days I've been reviewing the reports of monitor misdetections in LP; often their monitors aren't in this database, which makes me worry since much of the reason for the GUI tool is to resolve exactly those issues
[10:39] <bryce> I've also found at least two vendors (Apple and Acer) that have monitors with no published H/V frequencies I can find online at all, which is quite troubling
[10:40] <bryce> (well, these are laptop LCD's, not monitors exactly)
[10:42] <glatzor> bryce: mvo: http://www.linuxfibel.de/xconfigurator.htm (monitors) and http://wiki.mandriva.com/en/Tools/XFdrake (cards)
[10:42] <glatzor> bryce: both tools are mentioned in the beginning of the files
[10:42] <bryce> ahh
[10:43] <glatzor> bryce: oh sorry, I did not pay attention to the language of the first document :)
[10:45] <bryce> hehe, damn us monolingual usians ;-)
[10:46] <bryce> actually I took a couple years of german in high school, but that was long ago
[10:46] <bryce> I only remember the curse words
[10:48] <mvo> glatzor: that one is still used in fedora?
[10:50] <glatzor> mvo: bryce: I will cc you the mail.
[10:51] <glatzor> mvo: needs to be checked
[10:51] <bryce> cool thanks
[10:51] <mvo> glatzor: thanks!
[10:52] <mvo> ok, I think I should start packing now, the train goes tomorrow morning
[10:52] <glatzor> mvo: have a nice trip!
[10:53] <mvo> thanks glatzor!
[10:53] <glatzor> mvo: and come back relaxed :)
[10:53] <mvo> glatzor: I will (I hope)
[10:53] <bryce> cya mvo, have fun!
[10:53] <mvo> thanks bryce! 
[11:04] <glatzor> bryce: the KDE wiki page mentions a reconfiguration on runtime feature of x. do you know anything about this one?
[11:04] <glatzor> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuGutsyGuidance
[11:04] <Lure> glatzor: xrandr 1.2?
[11:08] <bryce> glatzor: yeah sounds a lot like xrandr
[11:08] <bryce> I don't know of any other runtime reconfiguration in recent Xorg
[11:10] <glatzor> bryce: seems that I have to finally use Launchpads bzr repositories directly and not let it mirror mine.
[11:10] <glatzor> :)
[11:12] <bryce> heh
[11:15] <glatzor> bryce: do you know of any launchpad policy changes?
[11:15] <bryce> no I don't
[11:15] <glatzor> bryce: this morning I could reject bugs of gnome-app-install ...
[11:16] <glatzor> but now it only tells me that I am not the assigned person, the maintainer nor the reporter
[11:17] <bryce> hrm
[11:17] <glatzor> Additionally out of the same reasons I cannot assign the bug to me :)
[11:17] <glatzor> Kind of boot strapping problem :)
[11:17] <bryce> yeah I don't know if there have been changes; I haven't seen any announcements about new launchpad releases or policy changes
[11:18] <bryce> join #canonical-sysadmin
[11:18] <bryce> maybe ask on #canonical-sysadmin?
[11:20] <glatzor> bryce: Oh, I am a fool. My login was not remembered :)
[11:20] <glatzor> bryce: It is getting late here in Europe :)
[11:21] <\sh> it is late in europe ;)
[11:22] <bryce> aha :-)
[11:24] <glatzor> \sh: I had a late shift today and arrived one hour ago back at home. So I have got a small lag in my day time.
[11:27] <glatzor> bryce: should we add a dialog that asks the user if he or she wants to run displayconfig to a different source repository or should I add one to displayconfig?
[11:28] <glatzor> bryce: I pushed my changes to the ubuntu branch. Would be nice if you could verify the fallback xorg on your computer.
[11:28] <bryce> ok cool
[11:28] <glatzor> The fallback xorg.conf of displayconfig to be exactly.
[11:29] <bryce> by source repository what do you mean?
[11:30] <glatzor> bryce: https://code.launchpad.net/~displayconfig-gtk/displayconfig-gtk/ubuntu