[01:13] <morphir> hi, anyone here maintain lighttpd for ubuntu?
[01:13] <crimsun> the entire MOTU team maintains that source package.
[01:14] <morphir> hmm
[01:14] <crimsun> we don't have strict maintainers (although we often have one or two people/groups that care for certain packages primarily)
[01:14] <ajmitch> if there's a bug, it's best filed on launchpad
[01:14] <ajmitch> or if you want to work on it, put a patch up there
[01:15] <morphir> not a bug, I wanna make a package for lighttpd1.5 beta
[01:15] <morphir> I need documentation
[01:15] <morphir> or if anyone care  to assist me trough making one, I would appreciate that
[01:15] <crimsun> for getting started on packaging? Use the Debian New Maintainer's Guide and the Ubuntu Packaging Guide.
[01:16] <crimsun> Studying the existing lighttpd source package is a secondary starting place.
[01:16] <beuno> morphir: http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html
[01:16] <morphir> found it :) thanks
[01:18] <morphir> crimson, I already did that. And I'am curious how the init.d was created
[01:19] <crimsun> likely it was based on a template, then LSBised.
[03:00] <persia> crimsun: Are you still working on bug 50393?  I'm tempted to reject, but smart card failures might be considered a security vulnerability (in which case it needs help in Dapper).
[03:00] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 50393 in openct "[dapper-updates candidate]  Missing /var/run/openct directory after (re)boot aborts initscript execution" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/50393
[03:01] <ajmitch> persia: what's the grounds for rejection?
[03:02] <persia> ajmitch: It's not a software security issue, and it was fixed in edgy.  Depending on one's thoughts on smartcards, it may not meet the criteria for a Stable Release Update.
[03:03] <ajmitch> I'm of the opinion that there's an easy fix supplied & tested, and that it's a good thing to fix these bugs
[03:04] <persia> ajmitch: OK.  Still needs someone to steer the SRU process.  I can't test, lacking the relevant hardware.
[03:04] <ajmitch> it's been nearly a year
[03:05] <ajmitch> neither do I, mine is a fairly basic laptop
[03:06] <hendrixski> asac, why is lightning a higher priority then sunbird?
[03:21] <welshbyte> heh, i almost forgot about that pygmy bug. i'll cook up a debdiff
[03:25] <persia> welshbyte: That would be great.  Thanks.
[03:31] <welshbyte> persia: done. should i subscribe u-u-s again or are you on the case? :)
[03:34] <persia> welshbyte: I recommending subscribing U-U-S again.  I'll get bugmail and look at it when it rises to the top of the queue, but someone else might be faster :)
[03:34] <welshbyte> will do
[03:41] <TheMuso> persia: If you're busy, I'll have a look.
[03:43] <persia> TheMuso: I'm just processing mentee sponsorships right not.  Thanks.
[03:43] <persia> s/not/now/
[03:43] <TheMuso> persia: np.
[03:44] <TheMuso> Not that there is actually anything that needs doing..
[03:44] <persia> TheMuso: for pygmy? or for UUS?
[03:44] <TheMuso> persia: uus
[03:47] <ajmitch> once you're finished with those, the next challenge is to search for all bugs in universe with a patch attached
[03:48] <ajmitch> many of those do not have u-u-s subscribed
[03:48] <ajmitch> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.searchtext=&orderby=-importance&field.status%3Alist=Unconfirmed&field.status%3Alist=Needs+Info&field.status%3Alist=Confirmed&field.status%3Alist=In+Progress&field.status%3Alist=Fix+Committed&assignee_option=any&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.bug_contact=&field.component=4&field.component=3&field.component-empty-marker=1&field.status_upstream=&field.status_upstream-empty-marker=1&field.omit_du
[03:48] <ajmitch> yay for LP urls
[03:52] <persia> ajmitch: Actually, would you mind tagging all those "patch"?  One of my mentees is working on packaging, and is using the "patch" tag to prepare debdiffs for things.  Thanks.
[03:53] <ajmitch> persia: that will take awhile :)
[03:53] <ajmitch> maybe Hobbsee could do some?
[03:53] <persia> ajmitch: Thanks Hobbsee :)
[03:54] <TheMuso> Heya Hobbsee
[03:55] <Hobbsee> what's this?
[03:55] <Hobbsee> hi ajmitch, persia, TheMuso 
[03:56] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: bugs with patches attached, tagging them with 'patch'
[03:56] <morphir> is chkconfig being replaced with anything?
[03:56] <ajmitch> something that would best be automated with bughelper if possible
[03:57] <Hobbsee> ahh
[03:57] <ajmitch> morphir: you mean the system of update-rc.d/invoke-rc.d ?
[03:57] <persia> ajmitch: Actually that's true.  Us telling each other to do it doesn't help so much.
[03:57] <morphir> ajmitch, I prbly do, don't I
[03:58] <ajmitch> not sure of the value of tagging them with 'patch' when it's simple to search for bugs with patches attached
[03:58] <Hobbsee> tbh, i dont know why you....damn you, ajmitch 
[03:58] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: hm?
[03:58] <Hobbsee> you beat me to what i was going to say.
[03:58] <ajmitch> heh
[03:58] <ajmitch> that's why I pasted a long url just before you came in
[03:58] <ajmitch> the list of bugs with patches
[03:58] <ajmitch> of course it repeats a lot
[03:59] <ajmitch> there's plenty of xserver-xgl stuff that he promised to care for :)
[03:59] <Hobbsee> yep
[03:59] <Burgundavia> isn't xgl dead?
[03:59] <ajmitch> sadly no
[04:00] <Burgundavia> where do I sign up to kill it?
[04:01] <ajmitch> ATI (now AMD)
[04:03] <Hobbsee> sort it via /dev/null
[04:03] <ajmitch> split out stuff I receive from the firehose (ubuntu-bugs)
[04:08] <nixternal> VISTA LOVE!
[04:08] <nixternal> oops, did I say that out loud
[04:34] <jmg> no, you said it on irc
[05:02] <crimsun> persia: I'll look at it in an hour.
[05:02] <crimsun> d'oh
[05:08] <LaserJock> crimsun: do you have any idea what Ubuntu's position on -nonfree doc packages from Debian?
[05:09] <crimsun> LaserJock: I haven't heard anything different to Debian WRT policy, but I'm not a core -doc member.
[05:10] <Burgundavia> afaic, we don't consider that stuff nonfree
[05:10] <LaserJock> hmm
[05:11] <LaserJock> I don't know of any documentation of that
[05:11] <Burgundavia> chat with Keybuk
[05:11] <LaserJock> I've got lots of -nonfree doc related stuff in TeX
[05:11] <LaserJock> some of it is invariant FDL
[05:16] <Burgundavia> ugh
[05:16] <Burgundavia> poor you
[05:19] <ScottK> Good evening all.
[05:19] <Hobbsee> hi ScottK 
[05:19] <ScottK> Hello Hobbsee.
[05:21] <ajmitch> hello
[05:22] <Hobbsee> hi ajmitch 
[05:22] <Hobbsee> causing trouble again, are you?
[05:22] <ajmitch> yep!
[05:22] <ajmitch> it's what I do best
[05:40] <SlimG> Should all the results from "ldd <binary>" be added to "Depends:" in DEBIAN/control ?
[05:40] <crimsun> god no.
[05:41] <SlimG> why?
[05:41] <ajmitch> because dpkg-shlibdeps does that automatically when you do things properly 
[05:41] <crimsun> done properly, it should be the _minimal_ set of runtime dependencies. Package X will depend on Y, and if you include both packages X & Y in the Depends: field, it's redundant.
[05:45] <LaserJock> well, my first Main sync ended with FTBFS on all archs
[05:45] <LaserJock> don't I rock ;-)
[05:45] <SlimG> Does it make any difference that I'm creating a binary package? (closed-source), how can I know what dependencies to add/not add from ldd <binary> ?
[05:46] <SlimG> Doesn't the binary require all the libs listed by ldd to work?
[05:46] <ajmitch> LaserJock: don't worry, I've screwed up worse than that
[05:47] <LaserJock> well, I don't think it was me, at least
[05:47] <ajmitch> LaserJock: in this case, it was all me
[05:47] <beuno> does anyone know the command to create a Debian (sid) pbuilder enviroment in Ubuntu?   I can't seem to get it working  :(
[05:47] <LaserJock> the package built fine in my pbuilder and StevenK's amd64 pbuilder
[05:48] <ajmitch> LaserJock: oh, one of those
[05:48] <LaserJock> but it puked on the buildds
[05:48] <ajmitch> got a build log?
[05:49] <LaserJock> http://librarian.launchpad.net/7824279/buildlog_ubuntu-gutsy-i386.gcompris_8.3.1-3_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[05:51] <ajmitch> that's the one with the large tarball, right? :)
[05:51] <ajmitch> couldn't find gnuchess? interesting
[05:55] <LaserJock> gnuchess is now part of gnome-games
[05:55] <ajmitch> and it build-deps on gnome-games?
[05:56] <ajmitch> sounds ugly
[05:56] <LaserJock> it build deps on gnuchess
[05:56] <ajmitch> so why are you surprised that it breaks?
[05:56] <LaserJock> good luck, it's 100MB
[05:56] <ajmitch> ]  23,624,832   126.96K/s    ETA 07:10
[05:56] <ajmitch> another few minutes
[05:56] <LaserJock> because pbuilder and the buildds pick up gnome-games
[05:56] <ajmitch> grabbing with wget
[05:58] <LaserJock> the buildd gives this when looking for gnuchess:
[05:58] <LaserJock> Note, selecting gnome-games instead of gnuchess
[05:59] <ajmitch> I know
[06:01] <SlimG> crimsun: so I should ldd <binary>, ignore the one's that's installed out-of-box in ex. feisty and add the rest to "Depends:" in DEBIAN/control ? I don't quite understand your answer, I'm not going to add the current application to it's own "Depends:"
[06:02] <crimsun> SlimG: I recommend you take a look at what dpkg-shlibdeps(1) does, as ajmitch referred to it.
[06:03] <SlimG> crimsun: ok
[06:10] <ajmitch> LaserJock: I'm sure that configure.in is wrong
[06:11] <ajmitch> AC_PATH_PROG(GNUCHESS, gnuchess,no,[/usr/bin:/usr/games:/usr/local/bin:$PATH] )
[06:11] <ajmitch> but my autotools knowledge is lacking
[06:11] <StevenK> I have gnome-games and no gnuchess here.
[06:12] <ajmitch> quite right, I don't either
[06:12] <ajmitch> perhaps only debian moved gnuchess into gnome-games? :)
[06:13] <StevenK> It's possible.
[06:16] <LaserJock> StevenK: but why did it work for you and me?
[06:17] <StevenK> That's a damn good question.
[06:20] <SlimG> ajmitch: does dpkg-shlibdeps find all the dependencies in <binary>, and discards the one's that is installed by default in ex. feisty ? just curious on how it works, I've managed to get dpkg-shlibdeps to work just fine.
[06:33] <tepsipakki> ajmitch: /d:MONONATIVE did the trick :)
[07:06] <TheMuso> Gotta love renovations.
[07:24] <imbrandon> ... moins all
[07:35] <dholbach> GOOD MORNING!
[07:37] <lionel> morning dholbach!
[07:37] <dholbach> hey lionel
[07:42] <imbrandon> moins dholbach 
[07:42] <dholbach> heya imbrandon
[07:42] <dholbach> hey jussi01
[07:43] <jussi01> good morning dholbach
[08:02] <elkbuntu> in a good mood today dholbach?
[08:02] <jussi01> Hello motu's. I have just noticed a small problem with my package, that I dont know how to fix. I have a menu file, and it seems to be ok, but when i install the deb, nothing appears in the menu. I havent restarted x, but that shouldnt be necessary? anyone got an idea about this?
[08:03] <dholbach> elkbuntu: YES :)
[08:04] <jussi01> dholbach: I assume you got my email? :D
[08:04] <dholbach> jussi01: do you call dh_installmenu in debian/rules?
[08:04] <jussi01> dholbach: Im using cdbs
[08:04] <Fujitsu> jussi01: menu, or .desktop?
[08:04] <jussi01> menu
[08:04] <dholbach> jussi01: yes, I'm working my way through my inbox steadily
[08:04] <jussi01> dholbach: :D
[08:04] <dholbach> jussi01: does   sudo update-menus  fix it?
[08:05] <jussi01> dholbach: that gives me command not found. Does it make a difference if im on kde?
[08:06] <dholbach> do you have the 'menu' package installed?
[08:06] <imbrandon> if your on kde kicker has to be restarted
[08:06] <imbrandon> sudo killall kicker && kicker &
[08:06] <dholbach> if you don't have 'menu', then you have no debian menus, which is where a .menu file entry should turn up
[08:06] <imbrandon> kde doesnt use menu
[08:06] <dholbach> aha?
[08:07] <dholbach> what does it use for the debian menu thing then?
[08:07] <imbrandon> it dosent
[08:07] <dholbach> how do you get .menu entries in kde then?
[08:07] <imbrandon> they dont show by default
[08:07] <imbrandon> you dont , you use the .desktop
[08:07] <imbrandon> heh
[08:07] <dholbach> and there's no way to get them?
[08:08] <imbrandon> well you can install menu, but it will dupe all menu entries then
[08:08] <imbrandon> in the kmenu
[08:08] <dholbach> ok, so 'menu' gets you the Debian menu entries
[08:08] <jussi01> ok, methinks i need a .desktop
[08:08] <jussi01> ?
[08:08] <dholbach> jussi01: using dh_installmenu will generate bits in the postinst which calls update-menus (if it's there)
[08:08] <dholbach> but yeah, better to have a .desktop
[08:09] <jussi01> dholbach: does cdbs not already call that dh_ command?
[08:09] <dholbach> yes it does
[08:09] <dholbach> I just wanted to point out what the command does
[08:09] <jussi01> ok, well since the program is in the section kde, i think maybe I should actually put a .desktop
[08:09] <jussi01> dholbach: thanks
[08:09] <jussi01> :D
[08:10] <dholbach> righto
[08:10] <dholbach> good luck with that :)
[08:10] <dholbach> look in /usr/share/applications :)
[08:11] <imbrandon> heh
[08:11] <jussi01> thanks
[08:11] <crimsun> bah, may as well do this security fix and forego sleep.
[08:11] <imbrandon> heya crimsun 
[08:12] <dholbach> crimsun: better take a nap, no?
[08:12] <shawarma> I know I said I'd make the meeting 5 hours from now, but since I've had 7 hours of sleep in the past 75 hours I don't think there's much chance that I'll be in a non-horizontal position at 1100 UTC.
[08:12] <dholbach> crimsun, shawarma: go to sleep! :-)
[08:12] <crimsun> shawarma: to make it at 1200 UTC? Ok, sleep well.
[08:12] <jussi01> lol
[08:13] <shawarma> crimsun: It's 1100UTC, no?
[08:13] <crimsun> the meeting's at 1200 UTC.
[08:13] <crimsun> if it were 1100, I wouldn't have even contemplated sleep
[08:13] <shawarma> Ah. I've got to hand in a paper by 10 UTC, so I won't be sleeping until then.
[08:15] <dholbach> shawarma: good luck with all that
[08:15] <shawarma> dholbach: Thanks. It's going to be good to get this over with. :)
[08:16] <dholbach> I think I know what you mean :-)
[08:17] <shawarma> Yes, I have some more interesting business to attend to. :) Oh, well, better get back to the books.
[08:31] <StevenK> 523 scribus_1.3.3.9.dfsg-1ubuntu1_source.changes
[08:32] <StevenK> Mmmm, yummy.
[08:32] <beuno> hello, I'm following the ubuntu packaging guide, and I'm stuck with   "/usr/bin/fakeroot: 152: debian/rules: Permission denied", what am I doing wrong?
[08:32] <RAOF> StevenK: ?
[08:33] <StevenK> RAOF: wc -l on a .changes
[08:33] <beuno> (this is while doing "dpkg-buildpackage -S -rfakeroot")
[08:33] <StevenK> beuno: debian/rules needs to be executable.
[08:35] <beuno> StevenK: you are right, thanks!   (shouldn't that be specified in the guide?)
[08:35] <RAOF> That's a nice big changes file. :)
[08:37] <StevenK> RAOF: Yes. It contains changelog entries from 72 releases. :-)
[08:37] <minghua> beuno: yes it should
[08:37] <dholbach>  debuild -S -sa -v0.0? ;-)
[08:37] <StevenK> dholbach: scribus 1.2.5 -> 1.3.3.9
[08:37] <beuno> minghua: it's not a wiki, so I can't edit, should I file a bug?
[08:38] <RAOF> Wow.  Took a long while for scribus-ng to be considered stable, eh?
[08:38] <minghua> beuno: that's the problem, I don't know how to file a bug against the packaging guide
[08:39] <minghua> beuno: I usually just pester LaserJock to fix it, but he isn't here now
[08:39] <minghua> beuno: if you can figure out how to file the bug, let me know
[08:39] <beuno> minghua: I'll take up that challenge as soon as I finish going through the guide,  :D
[08:40] <StevenK> RAOF: Looks that way.
[08:40] <StevenK> Hrm.
[08:40] <dholbach> minghua, beuno: http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-docs/+filebug
[08:41] <beuno> dholbach: thanks, filing now!
[08:41] <minghua> thanks dholbach
[08:41] <dholbach> de rien
[08:41] <crimsun> hmph. Current -security practice seems conflicting just upon inspecting debian/changelog entries.
[08:42] <crimsun> methinks SecurityUpdateProcedures needs clarification.
[08:42] <nixternal> oi
[08:42] <dholbach> what do you all think about having something like http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Recipes - where we walk people through say 1) doing a simple change and generate a debdiff from there, 2) update a package to a new version, 3) drop in a dpatch, etc.?
[08:43] <beuno> dholbach: +1 to anything that helps us newcommers to packaging   :D
[08:43] <crimsun> um yeah. "Subscribe to and send a notification to the security review mailing list ([WWW]  security-review@lists.ubuntu.com)" would work better if we hadn't _deleted_ the mailing list.
[08:46] <crimsun> dholbach: yes, that would be nice. We should link to pitti's classroom lecture on patching, too.
[08:47] <crimsun> [in that appropriate section] 
[08:47] <StevenK> Should this be discussed at the meeting, too?
[08:48] <dholbach> yeah why not
[08:48] <dholbach> although we'll have QUITE a long agenda this time
[08:48] <dholbach> but this just shows how much activity we have at the moment :-)
[08:50] <crimsun> well, I've just restocked my tea cabinet, so I should be good. :-)
[08:50] <dholbach> added :)
[08:50] <dholbach> hmmmmm, tea - good idea
[08:50] <imbrandon> mt dew flavord tea ? :)
[08:51] <crimsun> ok, #116754 prepared & tested/verified; uploaded to gutsy. Time for my morning run.
[08:51] <imbrandon> mmm a Ubuntu Development "Cookbook", what a great idea, i love the O'Reilly Cookbook series
[08:53] <beuno> dholbach: btw, thanks for getting back to me so quickly about the UWN interview   ;D
[08:55] <StevenK> dholbach: Is the Agenda in the wiki? If it is, I'd suggest a link is added here and to #ubuntu-meeting before the meeting starts.
[08:56] <crimsun> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings
[08:56] <crimsun> it's also linked on the fridge node.
[08:58] <crimsun> (also linked from https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2007-May/000978.html)
[08:58] <StevenK> I meant in the /topic, actually.
[08:58] <StevenK> crimsun: I've got a dorky question if you have a sec.
[08:59] <imbrandon> the meeting is in +5 hours from now correct ? ( just making sure i have my time info right )
[09:01] <StevenK> crimsun: One of the Ubuntu changes for Scribus is "Scribus.pot: Add strings from desktop file."; I'm just entirely unsure how this is done, and wouldn't mind a pointer or cluebat.
[09:02] <StevenK> imbrandon: The fridge agrees.
[09:02] <dholbach> beuno: no problem :-)
[09:02] <imbrandon> k
[09:03] <dholbach> we should have a MOTU/GettingStarted
[09:03] <dholbach> we could add most of the links of the topic there
[09:04] <StevenK> dholbach: Sounds good to me.
[09:04] <crimsun> StevenK: I haven't looked at scribus; was it added manually? (I'm not aware of an automated procedure to add from desktop files.)
[09:04] <viviersf> guys if i wanna upload stuff to universe
[09:04] <viviersf> whats the process in doing that
[09:05] <StevenK> crimsun: I'm unsure. I'm quite tempted to ask pitii.
[09:05] <imbrandon> viviersf, well first you have to be a MOTU , or have a MOTU to sponsor your upload
[09:05] <crimsun> viviersf: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Hopeful/Recruitment
[09:05] <minghua> StevenK, crimsun: most likely it's a intltool-update thing
[09:05] <viviersf> imbrandon, cool ill irritate ajmitch then :)
[09:08] <StevenK> intltool-extract on the .desktop doesn't give me a thing.
[09:09] <jussi01> gah, im all confused...
[09:09] <jussi01> whats the correct way to tell the package to install the desktop file?
[09:10] <StevenK> jussi01: A .install file if the package has one.
[09:10] <jussi01> StevenK: it doesnt, should I just make one?
[09:11] <StevenK> It's one way. Another way is to run cp in debian/rules.
[09:11] <StevenK> In either case, dh_desktop should be called in binary-indep, which will update the postinst and postrm.
[09:12] <jussi01> StevenK: ok, Ill try the install file
[09:13] <jussi01> StevenK: I assume .desktop file goes in the package dir, not debian dir?
[09:13] <StevenK> If it isn't from upstream, it's usually placed in the debian dir.
[09:13] <jussi01> oh, alright then
[09:13] <jussi01> thanks
[09:15] <minghua> StevenK: not necessarily binary-indep if it only builds one arch:any package
[09:15] <StevenK> minghua: Well, I guessed. :-)
[09:17] <Fujitsu> StevenK: Hah, what a stupid idea.
[09:17] <StevenK> Fujitsu: Like you're even old enough to drive. :-P
[09:17] <Fujitsu> Pfft.
[09:17] <Fujitsu> I should probably get a learner permit soon.
[09:18] <StevenK> To be honest, it usually isn't too bad on the way home.
[09:24] <LaserJock> hmm
[09:25] <LaserJock> MOTU meeting in 4 hrs
[09:25] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: Right. You might want to go to bed now.
[09:25] <LaserJock> dholbach: I just saw your little "MOTU Recipies" addition to the agenda
[09:25] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: not much of a chance of me making that
[09:26] <Fujitsu> Aw..
[09:27] <LaserJock> since I'm not going to make the meeting
[09:27] <LaserJock> I had a thought
[09:27] <LaserJock> actually, I've been thinking about it for some time
[09:28] <imbrandon> LaserJock, sure you'll be awake :)
[09:28] <LaserJock> what if the packaging guide turned into a guid on the wiki
[09:28] <LaserJock> *guide
[09:29] <minghua> but then again, I did almost nothing for packaging guide
[09:30] <LaserJock> the thing for me
[09:31] <LaserJock> is that I don't get a lot of help with it and I don't have a ton of time to write it myself
[09:31] <LaserJock> you have to learn docbook and get somewhat involved with the Doc team if you want to work on it much
[09:31] <LaserJock> and then some material gets outdated fast
[09:31] <dholbach> how hard would it be to convert wikispeak to docbook?
[09:32] <LaserJock> it depends
[09:32] <LaserJock> right now it could be a decently big deal if I wanted to do everything in moin and then convert to docbook
[09:32] <LaserJock> but for a section at a time it's reasonably easy
[09:32] <LaserJock> an alternative thought
[09:33] <LaserJock> would be to maintain a short, "Getting Started" kind of doc in docbook
[09:33] <jussi01> Hmmm, If someone has time, could they review my package? It is mnemosyne http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5267 Thanks a lot
[09:33] <LaserJock> the kind people could print out, etc.
[09:33] <dholbach> so if we used the wiki for updating/changing it in the team and converted fed changes back into docbook - how sensible would that be?
[09:33] <LaserJock> I'm hesitant to do that for the whole thing
[09:33] <LaserJock> at least at this point
[09:34] <LaserJock> but I think some sections at least could be
[09:35] <LaserJock> do people prefer to have the packaging guide non-wiki?
[09:35] <LaserJock> it's definatly easier to print when it's not wiki
[09:35] <dholbach> it might be a good idea to discuss that on the list
[09:35] <dholbach> to get even more input on it
[09:35] <LaserJock> mhm
[09:35] <dholbach> and maybe we find a good solution there
[09:35] <LaserJock> I wanted to add an agenda item
[09:35] <LaserJock> but I'm not going to make the meeting so I hate adding items
[09:35] <dholbach> right
[09:36] <dholbach> best to discuss on the list then
[09:36] <LaserJock> k
[09:36] <LaserJock> I think it might be best, in any case, to tie together the great stuff that's going on in the MOTU wiki with the packaging guide
[09:37] <shawarma> jussi01: You refer to the GPL rather than GPL-2 in your debian/copyright.
[09:38] <shawarma> jussi01: Your copyright file also doesn't list copyright holders. It's not necessarily the same as the authors.
[09:38] <dholbach> this is what I use - maybe it's useful to you:
[09:38] <dholbach> daniel@lovegood:~$ cat bin/check-copyright 
[09:38] <dholbach> find . -name '*.c' -o -name '*.h' -o -name '*.cpp' -o -name '*.cc' -o -name '*.hh' -o -name '*.py' | xargs head | less
[09:38] <dholbach> daniel@lovegood:~$ 
[09:39] <jussi01> dholbach: thank you, I didnt even know that could be done
[09:39] <jussi01> shawarma: Ill have a look at it
[09:40] <shawarma> jussi01: :)
[09:41] <jussi01> hmmm, do i ned to have some package to do that? that command doesnt like me...
[09:42] <shawarma> jussi01: What's the problem?
[09:42] <jussi01> jussi@jussi-laptop:~$ cat bin/check-copyright
[09:42] <jussi01> cat: bin/check-copyright: No such file or directory
[09:42] <shawarma> Ah, leave that bit out.
[09:43] <shawarma> That's just dholbach showing that he has it in a script.
[09:43] <jussi01> ahhhh... 
[09:43] <shawarma> Just start from the "find" command.
[09:43] <jussi01> :D
[09:46] <jussi01> shawarma: I understood that i referred to the gpl2.... ie. 
[09:46] <jussi01> either version 2 of the License, or
[09:46] <jussi01>    (at your option) any later version.
[09:46] <shawarma> Yes. You refer to version 1.
[09:46] <shawarma> Doh.
[09:46] <shawarma> No, you didn't.
[09:47] <shawarma> I'm way too tired to be doing this. :)
[09:47] <jussi01> heh, I did, on the bottom...
[09:48] <jussi01> shawarma: no probs, thanks a lot anyway :D
[09:49] <beuno> ok, I'm still following the packaging guide, and I'm getting this when trying to build in a pbuilder enviroment:  gzip: debian/tmp/usr/share/man: No such file or directory
[09:49] <beuno> make: *** [binary-arch]  Error 1
[09:50] <beuno> I can imagine it's a problem with the "rules" file, but I'm not sure if that should be happening if I followed the guide...
[09:51] <LaserJock> hmm
[09:51] <LaserJock> you're building hello?
[09:51] <LaserJock> or hello-debhelper?
[09:51] <beuno> LaserJock: hello
[09:53] <minghua> hello's makefile should install man pages, I think
[09:54] <beuno> ok, I just found a difference between the one in Ubuntu and in the guide (from which I copied), might be due to that
[09:54] <beuno> (still not sure if that should end up in an error though)
[09:54] <imbrandon> ping6 ping6
[09:54] <imbrandon> err
[09:54] <LaserJock> umm
[09:55] <LaserJock> kill -9 kill -9
[09:55] <LaserJock> I can rap too ;-)
[09:55] <imbrandon> lol was supose to be `ping6 2001:618:400::4887:85` but not in irssi
[09:55] <imbrandon> :)
[09:55] <keescook> crimsun: sweet, thanks for preparing the pulseaudio debdiff!
[09:56] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, no doubt
[09:56] <imbrandon> tb are a pita
[09:56] <Fujitsu> But I can't see that happening soon.
[09:56] <Fujitsu> Heh, yeah.
[09:56] <Fujitsu> High latency, often completely stuffed routing...
[09:56] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, you have v6 connecttivity ?
[09:57] <Fujitsu> Affirmative.
[09:57] <imbrandon> can you ping that addr i just pasted
[09:57] <imbrandon> or try to
[09:58] <beuno> aaargh... either something's not right with the packaging guide, or I go the ubuntu source package from some weird place, it now mentions "postinst" and "prerm" files, which are not in the ubuntu source...
[09:59] <beuno> (the document problem gets solved by *not* using the ubuntu package rules file, and copy & pasting from the guide)
[09:59] <LaserJock> bah
[09:59] <LaserJock> that means I'm getting farther behind
[09:59] <beuno> has this been tested in Feisty?
[09:59] <LaserJock> I need a "Packaging Guide" cleanup day
[09:59] <LaserJock> beuno: not particularly
[10:00] <beuno> LaserJock: sorry to bring it up then   :(
[10:00] <LaserJock> no, it's fine
[10:00] <beuno> just got the urge to get a bit involved in packaging, in part because of nixternal, so you can blame him if you want  :D
[10:01] <LaserJock> ohh, sweet
[10:01] <LaserJock> I love blaming nixternal 
[10:01] <beuno> LaserJock: if I an help you clean it up, I'll be glad to, I have to get through it anyway   :p
[10:02] <LaserJock> well, you can file bugs against ubuntu-doc upstream and put Packaging Guide in the summary
[10:02] <minghua> packaging guide doesn't even show up on the "7.04 documentations" last time I checked
[10:02] <LaserJock> nope
[10:02] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: I can't ping that, but I can ping other things.
[10:02] <imbrandon> k
[10:02] <LaserJock> I don't think the packaging guide was ever built into HTML or PDF for 7.04
[10:02] <LaserJock> :/
[10:03] <beuno> LaserJock: oki doke, I'll start filing bugs then
[10:03] <LongPointyStick> hi LaserJock, imbrandon, Fujitsu, minghua 
[10:03] <beuno> anyway I can get around this "postinst" and "prerm" issue now?
[10:03] <minghua> hello Sarah
[10:03] <imbrandon> ello Sarah
[10:04] <Fujitsu> ... wow. US$275 for 1 year of Canonical support on the Dell Ubuntu machines.
[10:05] <LaserJock> beuno: the Guide has then but you don't see it in the ubuntu source?
[10:05] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: yeah, I kinda wondered about those
[10:05] <beuno> LaserJock: yeap, the guide says to copy them over, but they're not present in the source package downloaded from apt
[10:06] <LaserJock> ok, just ignore them then I guess
[10:06] <beuno> LaserJock: and when I do and try to build, I get: install: cannot stat `debian/postinst': No such file or directory
[10:06] <beuno> install: cannot stat `debian/prerm': No such file or directory
[10:06] <beuno> make: *** [binary-arch]  Error 1
[10:06] <beuno> pbuilder: Failed autobuilding of package
[10:06] <minghua> bad, bad guide :-)
[10:07] <beuno> :p
[10:07] <beuno> remove them from rules manually then?
[10:07] <beuno> (I'll file the bug anyway)
[10:07] <minghua> beuno: in the line "install -m 755 debian/postinst debian/prerm debian/tmp/DEBIAN"
[10:08] <Hobbsee> hey jussi01 :)
[10:08] <minghua> beuno: delete the postinst and prerm
[10:08] <minghua> beuno: that's debian/rules file
[10:08] <beuno> minghua: great, removed both those items, lets go at it again
[10:09] <LaserJock> great
[10:10] <beuno> minghua: I wouldn't mind, it would help me learn the stuff   :p
[10:10] <minghua> beuno: oh sorry, you need to remove the whole "install -m ..." line
[10:10] <minghua> beuno: not just removing the two items
[10:11] <beuno> my goal this year is to become MOTU and DD, so I'll get into this packaging mess anyway   :p
[10:11] <LaserJock> *he is
[10:11] <minghua> MOTU, good chance; DD, not so much :-)
[10:12] <LaserJock> s/year/decade/ and it might work ;-)
[10:12] <Fujitsu> DD in 7 months? That'd be quick.
[10:13] <beuno> minghua: I know, it's on the list anyway, I've got my ticket to debconf to have an intensive session   :D
[10:13] <StevenK> Fujitsu: Do you remember how long it took me? :-P
[10:14] <Fujitsu> But you're ancient.
[10:14] <StevenK> It took ages back then, too.
[10:14] <beuno> I'm not in a hurry, just want to get more involved on the development side of things to have a better understanding of the whole picture
[10:14] <Fujitsu> I recall hamish mentioning how back when he joined the ranks of the DD (although that was aaages ago) that it basically involved a phone call to verify you were real, and you were in.
[10:15] <Fujitsu> StevenK: How long did it take you?
[10:15] <StevenK> Fujitsu: From applying to getting an account - 1 week.
[10:15] <LaserJock> shesh
[10:15] <viviersf> siretart, ping
[10:15] <Fujitsu> Ah yes, I think you might've mentioned that before.
[10:15] <StevenK> Heh.
[10:16] <beuno> aaaaaaargh, it's heavy for something being so out of date
[10:17] <tepsipakki> Seveas: ping
[10:20] <beuno> yaaaay, it built
[10:20] <beuno> I only have to file 3 bugs to the guide to be able to be reproducable
[10:23] <viviersf> :(
[10:26] <imbrandon> heya nixternal 
[10:36] <jussi01> persia: !
[10:36] <jussi01> :D
[10:37] <persia> hi jussi01
[10:38] <keescook> ScottK: I won't be able to make it to the motu meeting, but I like the sound of your plan.  :)
[10:38] <LaserJock> getting late huh
[10:39] <LaserJock> 1:40am
[10:40] <sorsis> does anyone follow tomcat5.5 section for ubuntu in launchpad?
[10:40] <sorsis> oh. nothing. sorry.
[10:58] <StevenK> LaserJock: Just think, only 3 hours until the meeting.
[10:59] <siretart> viviersf: sorry, please try in a few hours again
[11:36] <Hobbsee> choice command?
[11:36] <StevenK> Yes. skill
[11:37] <StevenK> skill (1)            - send a signal or report process status
[11:43] <danohuiginn> when a package is removed from ubuntu, is the reason for removal recorded anywhere?
[11:43] <StevenK> danohuiginn: Yes. people.u.c/~ubuntu-archive/removals.txt
[11:43] <danohuiginn> thanks, StevenK
[11:46] <Amaranth> did you know someone owns uubuntu.com?
[11:48] <\sh> Amaranth: whois is your friend
[11:54] <dholbach> ajmitch, gpocentek, crimsun: you there? do you know a bit about mailman? it'd be nice if we could finally fix universe-bugs to get all *verse bugs
[11:56] <dholbach> ajmitch, gpocentek, crimsun: I thought about subscribing to ubuntu-bugs@ and adding a spam rule that rejects everything that does not have  ^X-Launchpad-Bug:.*component:(uni|multi)verse.*  or something
[11:56] <ajmitch> dunno if I'll be alive at meeting time
[11:56] <Fujitsu> component=, not component:, but that would work.
[11:56] <dholbach> Fujitsu: right, yes
[11:56] <dholbach> that way we could even drop the ~motu team
[11:57] <Fujitsu> But we just moved to using motu a couple of months back.
[11:57] <ajmitch> hm, I should have a password for that list somewhere
[11:57] <Hobbsee> then there be more more motu, and we dont have upload privs? fun.
[11:57] <dholbach> Fujitsu: I think bugs is the only use we have for 'motu'
[11:57] <dholbach> Hobbsee: ubuntu-dev
[11:57] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: you'll be core dev, so it won't matter :)
[11:57] <dholbach> Hobbsee: motu was never about upload rights
[11:57] <Hobbsee> dholbach: which contains core
[11:57] <Hobbsee> as well
[11:57] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: heh, maybe
[11:57] <Fujitsu> dholbach: motu is upload rights now.
[11:57] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: they want to interview me, and burn me at the stake.
[11:58] <persia> dholbach: It works that way now.  MOTU is a member of ubuntu-dev.
[11:58] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Burn!
[11:58] <Fujitsu> Damn.
[11:58] <Hobbsee> yes.
[11:58] <dholbach> persia: it's not
[11:58] <Fujitsu> dholbach: Yes it is....
[11:58] <dholbach> Fujitsu: do I miss something on http://launchpad.net/~motu/+members
[11:58] <dholbach> ?
[11:59] <persia> dholbach: I'm a member of MOTU directly, which put me in ubuntu-dev indirectly.  I'm not sure how else that would work.
[11:59] <ajmitch> dholbach: other way round
[11:59] <Fujitsu> s/motu/ubuntu-dev/ in that URL.
[11:59] <dholbach> right
[11:59] <ajmitch> it's not a 2-way membership
[11:59] <persia> Does LP even support 2-way membership?
[11:59] <ajmitch> probably
[11:59] <ajmitch> dunno how it'd work
[12:00] <dholbach> I think it'd be nice to just have ubuntu-dev and ubuntu-core-dev
[12:00] <dholbach> and for universe-bugs@ to just work
[12:00] <Fujitsu> dholbach: I guess...
[12:00] <Fujitsu> I don't recall the rationale for moving back to motu.
[12:00] <persia> dholbach: works for me, but the name "MOTU" has a lot of psychological value at this point.
[12:01] <dholbach> right, but there's still all the mailing lists, the wiki and stuff that still mentions MOTU - it's not that we rename everything
[12:01] <dholbach> it's just to make the LP teams and their use more obvious
[12:02] <Fujitsu> I guess if universe-bugs means we don't need a special team, there's no reason to keep the team around
[12:02] <persia> Makes sense.  I've been using ~ubuntu-dev as the LP group of interest in any case.
[12:02] <dholbach> that's what I meant
[12:11] <geser> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2007-February/023309.html that's the mail which started the ~ubuntu-dev -> ~motu move
[12:12] <Fujitsu> Yep, I found that a while ago.
[12:12] <Fujitsu> Doesn't give much of a rationale for not using ubuntu-dev, other than that was how it used to be.
[12:28] <siretart> viviersf: pong
[12:44] <alfredoj69> Good morning everybody
[12:47] <SlimG> How does dpkg-shlibdeps work? does it find all dependencies required by <binary> and strip those dependencies that is installed in ex. feisty by default?
[12:53] <Hobbsee> is the meeting at 9 or 10?
[12:53] <StevenK> 10
[12:53] <ajmitch> past my bed time
[12:54] <persia> 1 hour from now, now?
[12:54] <persia> s/w?/?/
[12:54] <Hobbsee> good
[12:54] <alfredoj69> is it at 8:00 AM EST?
[01:03] <sorsis> if i use adept, why doesn't it see all packages that apt-get and apt-cache sees?
[01:04] <Fujitsu> You should probably ask that in #kubuntu.
[01:08] <joejaxx> Fujitsu: what do i do if a bug already has a patch but no one has done anything with the bug?
[01:09] <Hobbsee> joejaxx: create a debdiff, subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors
[01:09] <ajmitch> do what Hobbsee says
[01:09] <joejaxx> Hobbsee: ok
[01:10] <ScottK> ajmitch: Isn't that generally what one does?
[01:10] <ajmitch> ScottK: not I
[01:10] <Hobbsee> yes, but you're silly
[01:10] <joejaxx> Hobbsee: i did not know whether the person who submitted the patch does it or not :P
[01:11] <ScottK> How long ago did they attach the patch?
[01:11] <joejaxx> let me see
[01:11] <joejaxx> 2006-10-08
[01:12] <persia> joejaxx: backupninja?
[01:12] <joejaxx> what is that?
[01:12] <ajmitch> persia: I guess that's a no :)
[01:12] <ScottK> joejaxx: I'd say it's a safe bet they've done what they are going to do and you should feel free.
[01:12] <persia> joejaxx: Nevermind.  I've just been looking at too many old patches - it's another one from last october.
[01:13] <joejaxx> ScottK: ok
[01:13] <joejaxx> persia: ah ok
[01:17] <joejaxx> is there a page on correct changelog formatting?
[01:17] <Hobbsee> joejaxx: beyond dch -i ?
[01:17] <joejaxx> yes
[01:18] <Hobbsee> dont think so
[01:18] <Hobbsee> what in particular are you asking about?
[01:18] <joejaxx> well i have one file
[01:18] <joejaxx> debian/control
[01:18] <joejaxx> that i have done more than one thing to
[01:18] <joejaxx> so i cannot put debian/control: blah
[01:18] <Hobbsee> you can have multiple *'s
[01:19] <joejaxx> so i use the - but i do not know how many characters over i am supposed to put them
[01:19] <joejaxx> oh
[01:19] <Hobbsee> just with an enter in between
[01:19] <joejaxx> ok then
[01:20] <StevenK> joejaxx: Mostly, it's just guidelines, anyway.
[01:20] <Hobbsee> joejaxx: see "aptitude changelog kdepim" for an eg
[01:20] <joejaxx> alright
[01:20] <Hobbsee> preferably noting the bad linebreak in my changelog entry
[01:22] <DktrKranz> could you please have a look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5151 ?
[01:23] <joejaxx> Hobbsee: that is weird
[01:23] <joejaxx> Hobbsee: there is not a changelog for the latest version
[01:24] <joejaxx> http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/universe/k/kdepim/
[01:24] <StevenK> changelogs.u.c probably updates daily.
[01:24] <Hobbsee> joejaxx: it's a bit slow, yes.
[01:24] <joejaxx> oh
[01:24] <joejaxx> ok
[01:25] <Hobbsee> (whereas aptitude changelog reads thru your apt cache)
[01:25] <joejaxx> Hobbsee: so would this be correct? http://fluxbuntu.org/bug61151.patch
[01:25] <Hobbsee> joejaxx: perfect ;)
[01:25] <joejaxx> Hobbsee: yeah it tried getting the changelog from c.u.c
[01:25] <crimsun> keescook: np, thanks for processing it :)
[01:25] <joejaxx> Hobbsee: ok :)
[01:26] <Hobbsee> joejaxx: of course, dch -i will do most of that for you, which is good - like automatically put in the *'s each time you hit enter, etc
[01:26] <Hobbsee> i'm presuming you've found that :)
[01:26] <joejaxx> it does not do that for me :(
[01:26] <joejaxx> i have to manually add them
[01:26] <persia> DktrKranz: What problem is debomatic designed to solve?
[01:27] <Hobbsee> i thought.  perhaps not
[01:27] <persia> Hobbsee: Depends on your $EDITOR
[01:27] <Hobbsee> point
[01:28] <joejaxx> Hobbsee: Lol
[01:28] <StevenK> Woo!
[01:28] <Hobbsee> :P
[01:28] <joejaxx> nano ftw :D
[01:28] <StevenK> I remember a certain someone telling me that vi is dreadful.
[01:28] <joejaxx> i actually use both nano and vi
[01:28] <joejaxx> Hobbsee: so i submit the patch on  LP and set it to in progress and subscribe?
[01:28] <persia> So, just to make sure I understand: "emacs is great" OR "vi is great" AND "nano sucks" is true?
[01:29] <Hobbsee> StevenK: it becomes better with further use.  kate's still my favorite for multi-way diffs, though
[01:29] <imbrandon> Hobbsee, shush
[01:29] <Hobbsee> persia: right
[01:29] <StevenK> I tend to use emacs more often, but I know my way around vi fairly well.
[01:29] <Hobbsee> persia: please give joejaxx that link about contributing for u-u-s stuff, i've cleared my cache :(
[01:31] <persia> joejaxx: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Sponsorship/SponsorsQueue isn't quite what you want, but may be what Hobbsee is asking about.
[01:31] <Hobbsee> persia: yep, that's the one, thanks.
[01:31] <joejaxx> persia: ok thanks
[01:31] <persia> Hobbsee: Right.  I'm still drafting proper instructions, and likely to collide with MOTU/Recipies, but we'll find out in about an hour.
[01:31] <Hobbsee> persia: :)
[01:31] <Hobbsee> persia: it looks good so far
[01:31] <Hobbsee> persia: and last i knew, i'm the team owner, and the head of it, so..
[01:32] <StevenK> Hobbsee rules over u-u-s with an iron long pointy stick of doom?
[01:32] <persia> Hobbsee: I'd rather get Contributor documentation up to the level of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToFix
[01:32] <Hobbsee> DktrKranz: how does your package depend from pbuilder with scripts, or from prevu, jdong's backport tool?
[01:33] <DrKranz> sorry, network troubles
[01:33] <Hobbsee> persia: i look forward to seeing it :)
[01:33] <Hobbsee> StevenK: of course
[01:33] <joejaxx> persia: why do you want to unsubscribe u-u-s if you cannot upload? :\
[01:33] <DrKranz> anyway
[01:33] <DrKranz> debomatic is a simple build machine for debian source packages based on pbuilder. It handles chroot updates automatically and it permits to build against Ubuntu or Debian, but it should be possible to extend it to every Debian-based distribution easily.
[01:35] <Hobbsee> joejaxx: i believe that's a section, unclearly marked, meaning HOWTO:  "MOTU queue processing procedures"
[01:35] <joejaxx> oh
[01:36] <persia> joejaxx: Sorry.  That's a draft for discussion at the upcoming meeting, and not yet very clean.
[01:36] <persia> Hobbsee: Thank you.
[01:36] <joejaxx> oh ok
[01:38] <crimsun> dholbach: how do you feel about moving "Current Work Mode" and "Current Freezes" on wiki/MOTU immediately above "MOTU News"?
[01:38] <persia> DrKranz: OK.  Thanks.
[01:38] <DrKranz> np
[01:40] <crimsun> * Reminder: MOTU meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 20 minutes *
[01:40] <jussi01> crimsun: can only motu's attend a motu meeting?
[01:41] <crimsun> jussi01: everyone's welcome
[01:41] <jussi01> :D
[01:41] <Hobbsee> jussi01: no...but we do eat a nonMOTU for breakfast.
[01:41] <crimsun> (actually that's just Hobbsee ;-)
[01:41] <jussi01> Hobbsee: even a motu hopeful?
[01:41] <ScottK> crimsun: I have to run kids to school, so I may be a few minutes late, but I will be at the meeting.
[01:41] <jussi01> :P
[01:41] <Hobbsee> jussi01: of course
[01:41] <crimsun> ScottK: excellent
[01:44] <joejaxx> grrr
[01:44] <joejaxx> silly me
[01:45] <dholbach> crimsun: yeah, why not
[01:52] <crimsun> dholbach: done.
[01:52] <joejaxx> wow
[01:52] <joejaxx> dpatch is NICE
[01:52] <joejaxx> i have to fix my debdiff
[01:52] <crimsun> wait til you get to dpatch-edit-patch.
[01:54] <joejaxx> yeap i just ran that :D
[01:54] <persia> DrKranz: Commented.
[01:57] <joejaxx> hello raphink :)
[01:58] <dholbach> motu meeting in 3 minutes in #ubuntu-meeting
[01:58] <mumbly2> hello raphink :o)
[01:59] <raphink> hi joejaxx, dholbach && mumbly2
[01:59] <dholbach> hi raphink
[02:02] <joejaxx> hmm
[02:02] <joejaxx> crimsun: i have to create a new patch because i forgot it uses dpatch
[02:03] <joejaxx> :P
[02:03] <joejaxx> crimsun: does dpatch not apply with debuild -S -sa?
[02:04] <persia> joejaxx: There's a meeting on now, but it doesn't.
[02:04] <crimsun> err, it normally shouldn't be if you modified debian/rules appropriately
[02:04] <crimsun> -S should only be running clean
[02:04] <joejaxx> persia: oh ok
[02:04] <joejaxx> crimsun: ok
[02:08] <xxxxx1> morning people!
[02:09] <Hobbsee> hiya
[02:19] <SlimG> How does dpkg-shlibdeps work? does it find all dependencies required by <binary> and strip out those dependencies that is installed in ex. feisty by default?
[02:30] <joejaxx> nice i fixed that debdiff
[02:30] <joejaxx> :)
[02:30] <joejaxx> :)
[02:31] <Hobbsee> yay!
[02:31] <dholbach> hi gpocentek
[02:32] <joejaxx> Hobbsee: this one looks alot better
[02:33] <joejaxx> Hobbsee: http://fluxbuntu.org/bug61151.patch
[02:33] <joejaxx> uses the already existing (should have done this in the beginning) patch system
[02:34] <joejaxx> although i do not know whether the name of the dpatch patch is adequate enough
[02:39] <asac> joejaxx: the name doesn't matter so much as long as its somehow reasonable imo. if you document your patch in DP: lines properly, you definitly earn bonus points :). important things to note there might be: what does the patch do, whats the state (bugid in lp, send upstream (bugid) - bugid?, committed upstream), etc.
[02:40] <crimsun> origin, CVE as appropriate, etc.
[02:40] <joejaxx> asac: crimsun ok i will add a better (create one) description
[02:41] <crimsun> joejaxx: not to harp my pony, but http://librarian.launchpad.net/7826815/pulseaudio_0.9.5-5ubuntu4.1.debdiff.new is an example.
[02:41] <joejaxx> crimsun: thanks :)
[02:53] <Fujitsu> Aaaaargh, somebody just filed a bug using a really old script announcing their intent to merge mplayer.
[02:54] <StevenK> Bwhaha
[02:54] <joejaxx> :P
[02:54] <Hobbsee> what, another one?
[02:54] <Fujitsu> Considering their mplayer is horribly mangled and completely different, I don't like their chances.
[02:54] <Fujitsu> They assigned it to the MOTU Merges Team!
[02:54] <Hobbsee> hah
[02:55] <ajmitch> nice
[02:55] <Hobbsee> reject it then :P
[02:55] <Hobbsee> is that the same guy as this morning?
[02:55] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: what's the bug #?
[02:55] <Hobbsee> "foo needs a merge"
[02:55] <Fujitsu> Bug #116832
[02:55] <crimsun> Hobbsee: yes, it is :)
[02:55] <Fujitsu> It took 20 minutes to respond a few hours ago.
[02:56] <StevenK> MOTU: <your IRC nick>
[02:56] <Hobbsee> i knew that guy was on crack...
[02:56] <joejaxx> Hobbsee: lol
[02:56] <_MMA_> Malone bug 116832 in mplayer "mplayer: merge new debian version" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/116832
[02:56] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 116832 in mplayer "mplayer: merge new debian version" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/116832
[02:56] <Fujitsu> Um?
[02:56] <Hobbsee> i'd unassign it anyway, then.
[02:56] <StevenK> ubotu: You suck, mm'kay?
[02:56] <Fujitsu> debian bug 1234
[02:56] <ubotu> Bug 1234 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/1234 is private
[02:57] <StevenK> Bwhaha
[02:57] <Fujitsu> Debian bug 1234
[02:57] <ubotu> Bug 1234 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/1234 is private
[02:57] <crimsun> Debian 1234
[02:57] <Fujitsu> It /is/ being strange this evening.
[02:57] <Fujitsu> Debian #1234
[02:57] <Hobbsee> ubotu's dying today
[02:57] <joejaxx> dholbach: what do you think about bug #4978 ?
[02:57] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 4978 in gthumb "Difficult menu item name" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/4978
[02:57] <dholbach> looking in a bit
[03:12] <dholbach> joejaxx: what about the bug?
[03:12] <dholbach> joejaxx: I've forwarded it upstream, if you feel strongly about it, you should ask on the upstream bug for another comment
[03:12] <joejaxx> dholbach: oh ok
[03:12] <dholbach> ok cool
[03:12] <joejaxx> dholbach: so we wait for upstream for this bug?
[03:13] <dholbach> might be a good idea to prod him again on the upstream bug
[03:13] <joejaxx> ok
[03:33] <alfredoj69> sorry for asking this but at what time is the meeting?
[03:33] <StevenK> The meeting is over, and has been for 30 minutes.
[03:34] <alfredoj69> oh, interesting
[03:36] <afflux> anyone who has some merges left that I could try? I've nothing to do at the moment :)
[03:37] <persia> StevenK: Thank you.
[03:37] <Hobbsee> persia: /topic foo
[03:37] <persia> Hobbsee: I see.  I like the current topic, but maybe next time :)
[03:37] <Hobbsee> :)
[03:38] <Hobbsee> !responses
[03:38] <joejaxx> Hobbsee: i am working on a lynx bug now :P
[03:38] <Hobbsee> :)
[03:38] <joejaxx> bug #18639
[03:39] <joejaxx> grrr
[03:39] <geser> afflux: I could offer you wordpress
[03:39] <joejaxx> Malone bug 18639 in lynx "lynx doesn't have the default Ubuntu homepage" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/18639
[03:39] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 18639 in lynx "lynx doesn't have the default Ubuntu homepage" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/18639
[03:39] <joejaxx> :P
[03:39] <joejaxx> ubotu: you are slow :(
[03:40] <Hobbsee> bot is dying
[03:40] <persia> afflux: If you like wordpress, there is also an outstanding security issue for dapper/edgy that needs doing.
[03:41] <afflux> persia: I use it on my server, but I have not that much idea about the coding
[03:41] <afflux> geser: I'll have a look at it
[03:41] <fernando> moin all
[03:43] <joejaxx> Good Morning fernando 
[03:43] <joejaxx> Hobbsee: http://fluxbuntu.org/bug18639.patch
[03:44] <joejaxx> Hobbsee: should i poke people after i subscribe to u-u-s?
[03:44] <Hobbsee> you dont need to
[03:44] <crimsun> poking is not recommended.
[03:44] <joejaxx> oh ok
[03:44] <Hobbsee> it gets turned around in a few days, iirc
[03:44] <Hobbsee> crimsun: unless you carry a doomstick
[03:44] <joejaxx> yeah but i do not have a doomstick
[03:44] <joejaxx> lol
[03:45] <Hobbsee> joejaxx: u-u-s is small enough that you dont need to poke, unlike revu, where it's all very hard to follow
[03:45] <joejaxx> ahh ok
[03:46] <joejaxx> i hope someone files a bug report on elinks too
[03:46] <jussi01> persia: you awake still?
[03:46] <joejaxx> i would like to fix it there as well
[03:46] <geser> packages depending on a package from multiverse must also be in multiverse, right?
[03:47] <persia> jussi01: Yep.
[03:47] <joejaxx> yeap
[03:47] <joejaxx> geser: yes
[03:47] <ucap> I have just read about the mentoring system MOTU has started and I'm interested in becoming a contributor. I only have limited experience (persia might still remember some of my harassing questions while he was kind enough to mentor a bug I was trying to patch). I'm willing to learn but I am not sure I have enough time to a useful contributor.
[03:48] <crimsun> ucap: any time is valuable.
[03:48] <crimsun> (says the guy who has no time)
[03:48] <ucap> okay, so where do I go from here?
[03:48] <persia> ucap: We'd be glad to have your help.
[03:48] <jussi01> persia: (or anyone) when you start to package with cdbs, do you use dh_make and change the rules file, or some other way?
[03:49] <crimsun> jussi01: I don't use dh_make at all.
[03:49] <persia> ucap: I recommend starting with the bitesize bugs (see the /topic), or mentored bugs.  If you aren't getting anywhere, seek a mentor from the motu-mentoring-reception team.
[03:49] <persia> jussi01: I just start from scratch.
[03:49] <crimsun> jussi01: if you're using cdbs, it's pretty straightforward to just start from debian/rules
[03:49] <jussi01> ok, so you make all control, copyright etc by hand?
[03:50] <crimsun> well, debian/copyright normally _has_ to be made by hand
[03:50] <persia> jussi01: Generally.  Control is the hardest, but copyright should be done by hand anyway.
[03:50] <alfredoj69> In my case, started working on trying to create a package. is it that a good idea?
[03:50] <crimsun> alfredoj69: all roads lead to rome.
[03:50] <jussi01> ok. great. got to keep running, talk in a while
[03:50] <jussi01> :D
[03:51] <crimsun> alfredoj69: i.e., yes, that's fine. Everyone starts somewhere.
[03:51] <alfredoj69> but maybe that is a more difficult path for somebody new
[03:52] <crimsun> it's all going to be a bit overwhelming initially
[03:52] <crimsun> no way around that
[03:53] <crimsun> we're here to guide you around the potholes
[03:53] <alfredoj69> there should be like guideline which a new person should follow
[03:53] <ucap> persia: okay, before getting a mentor assigned I should try to get on on my own?
[03:53] <crimsun> alfredoj69: it's being addressed
[03:54] <crimsun> alfredoj69: in the meantime, you can begin with the bitesize-tagged bugs in Launchpad
[03:54] <persia> ucap: It depends.  If you're comfortable making changes and asking here for pointers to documentation, then starting on your own is best.  If you're having trouble, asking for a mentor may help.
[03:55] <ucap> persia: alright, I will have a go and see how far I get ;-)
[03:55] <joejaxx> ;)
[03:56] <persia> ucap: Good luck, and ask here if you get stuck.
[03:56] <ucap> I (most definitely) will!
[03:57] <alfredoj69>  crimsun, what is the linkf for Launchpad?
[03:58] <joejaxx> alfredoj69: http://tinyurl.com/2us2se
[03:58] <joejaxx> :)
[03:59] <afflux> persia: the new wordpress version would be 2.2-1ubuntu1, the security vulnerabilities I found at launchpad are for 2.1.3 or lower... Did you talk about them or some different?
[04:00] <persia> afflux: Exactly them.  For feisty and (as soon as your merge is complete) gutsy, there are no issues.  Those would be for dapper and edgy.
[04:00] <alfredoj69> joejaxx, thank you
[04:01] <joejaxx> alfredoj69: you are most welcome
[04:02] <afflux> persia: ah, I see. Should I provide a patch for the dapper/edgy packages or would we rather upload the feisty or gutsy package to dapper/edgy?
[04:02] <persia> afflux: If you have the time and the interest, separate targeted patches for dapper and edgy would be best.
[04:03] <afflux> persia: okay, I'll try.
[04:04] <persia> afflux: Thanks a lot.  The security team will really appreciate that.
[04:04] <DaveMorris> I've written a program as part of my job in Brighton Uni (UK).  Is it worth putting it towards you guys to go in universe although it requires special hardware of around 8K or should I just stick it on a site on its own?
[04:05] <persia> DaveMorris: Does it depend on many libraries, or is it mostly independent.  If the former, it may be worth filing a bug and adding the needs-packaging tag, to see if anyone wants to package it.  If the latter, you're better off hosting it separately.
[04:05] <DaveMorris> its the latter
[04:06] <DaveMorris> I've also created a userspace usb driver for it, is it worth adding that?
[04:07] <persia> DaveMorris: The same rules apply.  If it is accepted here, and has no users, it might get old, but if there are users and a maintainer, it will get recompiled against current libraries.
[04:07] <crimsun> (getting it into Debian first is preferred)
[04:08] <DaveMorris> persia: Thats a good rule of thumb I'll remember
[04:08] <crimsun> so-  any Hopefuls around who want to walk through a straightforward fakesync?
[04:08] <jussi01> crimsun: me!
[04:09] <crimsun> jussi01: ok, wget http://dad.dunnewind.net/grab-merge.sh and create a scratch directory
[04:09] <crimsun> brb, phone.
[04:09] <StevenK> crimsun: Can I say me? :-P
[04:09] <alfredoj69> I am here too
[04:09] <persia> StevenK: You're Hopeless.  You don't get walkthroughs :)
[04:10] <StevenK> Awww.
[04:10] <StevenK> persia: Shall I leave python-qt4 to you to fix? :-P
[04:10] <persia> StevenK: That would make me hopeless,
[04:11] <Lutin> hi there
[04:13] <joejaxx> hello Lutin :)
[04:13] <crimsun> jussi01: ok, after you've CWD into the scratch dir, use sh ../grab-merge.sh fluidsynth-dssi
[04:13] <Lutin> heya joejaxx . how're you doing ?
[04:14] <crimsun> jussi01: / alfredoj69: some background is needed. The reason it's called a fakesync is that we can use the Debian packaging instead of the existing Ubuntu one, but we can't request a sync from Debian because the orig.tar.gzs differ.
[04:14] <jussi01> ok
[04:15] <DktrKranz> how to proceed with a fake-sync?
[04:15] <alfredoj69> ok
[04:15] <crimsun> DktrKranz: have you grabbed fluidsynth-dssi using DaD's grab-merge.sh ?
[04:16] <DktrKranz> just a second, I'll do
[04:16] <joejaxx> Lutin: i am doing well
[04:16] <crimsun> jussi01: / alfredoj69: for the sake of completeness, I'll walk you through checking the orig.tar.gzs
[04:16] <joejaxx> Lutin: for some reason today i have an urge to fix bugs
[04:17] <Lutin> joejaxx: :)
[04:17] <crimsun> jussi01: / alfredoj69: ``grep orig *.dsc'' will show you the different md5sums for the tarballs
[04:18] <crimsun> jussi01: / alfredoj69: note that the orig.tar.gz that DaD's grab-merge.sh downloaded is 150e60d3e.. (the Ubuntu one)
[04:19] <crimsun> jussi01: / alfredoj69: / DktrKranz: we'll first extract this Ubuntu orig.tar.gz, then apply the Debian diff against it.
[04:20] <crimsun> [tar xf fluidsynth-dssi_0.9.1.orig.tar.gz && cd fluidsynth-dssi-0.9.1.orig && zcat ../fluidsynth-dssi_0.9.1-3.diff.gz|patch -p1 --dry-run] 
[04:21] <crimsun> that last series of commands will complete successfully, which means we should actually apply the diff
[04:21] <crimsun> [zcat ../fluidsynth-dssi_0.9.1-3.diff.gz|patch -p1] 
[04:22] <crimsun> the next step is to make debian/rules executable
[04:22] <crimsun> [chmod +x debian/rules] 
[04:22] <crimsun> next, we add a new Ubuntu changelog entry. Because it's a fakesync, the version will use build1, not ubuntu1, as a suffix.
[04:23] <crimsun> [dch -v0.9.1-3build1 -Dgutsy] 
[04:25] <crimsun> persia just made a good point that this isn't a fakesync; I'll discuss that briefly now.
[04:27] <crimsun> 1) Ubuntu's source package provides a binary package called dssi-plugin-fluidsynth
[04:27] <crimsun> contrast with Debian's source package that provides a binary package called fluidsynth-dssi
[04:28] <crimsun> 2) this means in our updated Ubuntu package, we need to edit debian/control to use Debian's binary package name
[04:28] <crimsun> this also means that we need to add Conflicts and Replaces entries for the older Ubuntu binary package name
[04:29] <crimsun> so-  back to our debian/changelog. Modify the version in the entry to reflect an Ubuntu change: 0.9.1-3build1 -> 0.9.1-3ubuntu1
[04:32] <crimsun> jussi01: / alfredoj69: / DktrKranz: still following?
[04:32] <alfredoj69> I a mtaking notes
[04:33] <DktrKranz> yep
[04:34] <crimsun> ok, because it's now a merge, we'll use the standard debian/changelog template for a merge:
[04:34] <crimsun>   * Merge from Debian unstable, remaining Ubuntu changes:
[04:34] <crimsun>     - debian/control: Conflicts/Replaces dssi-plugin-fluidsynth.
[04:35] <crimsun> after that modification, we need to add in the original changelog entry at the bottom
[04:36] <crimsun> (you can grab that from `aptitude changelog dssi-plugin-fluidsynth', or you can inspect the fluidsynth-dssi_0.9.1-0ubuntu1.diff.gz
[04:36] <crimsun> )
[04:37] <leonel> what time was the motu meeting for clamav ?
[04:37] <leonel> sorry 
[04:37] <leonel> first :
[04:37] <crimsun> 2,5 hours ago
[04:37] <leonel> Hello Motus !  good morning ..
[04:37] <leonel> crimsun: that's bad ...
[04:39] <crimsun> ok, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/22433/ lists the merged debian/changelog
[04:41] <crimsun> now we regenerate the merged source package  [debuild -S -v0.9.1-0ubuntu1] 
[04:41] <crimsun> I omitted DebianMaintainerField, so let's go over that change.
[04:42] <crimsun> All source packages from Debian that have Ubuntu changes need to adhere to http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebianMaintainerField
[04:42] <crimsun> so, edit debian/control and make those changes
[04:44] <crimsun> (be sure to note it in debian/changelog, too)
[04:47] <crimsun> now, assuming you've generated the new merged source package, you need to pbuild it and test it
[04:47] <leonel> i'm just arriving  I needed to be in ubuntu-meeting    this is  bad .
[04:47] <crimsun> (beyond this scope)
[04:47] <leonel> crimsun: can't find the log  ..
[04:48] <crimsun> leonel: I believe Hobbsee is working on that.
[04:48] <Hobbsee> !logs
[04:48] <ubotwo> Channel logs can be found at http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs
[04:48] <Hobbsee> leonel: ^
[04:48] <crimsun> http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-meeting-current.html  to be precise.
[04:48] <Hobbsee> crimsun: i think i said i'd do the meeting thing for next time.  but i'll probably do the minutes too
[04:49] <crimsun> Hobbsee: ok
[04:50] <crimsun> jussi01: / alfredoj69: / DktrKranz: afterward you should follow the Contributor portion of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Sponsorship/SponsorsQueue
[04:51] <DktrKranz> which versions should be used to generate debdiff, in this case?
[04:51] <persia> Note to those taking notes on the lesson - expect updated information on requesting sponsorship of uploads this weekend. 
[04:51] <crimsun> DktrKranz: existing Ubuntu and new merged Ubuntu versions.
[04:52] <DktrKranz> so, 0.9.1-0ubuntu1 and 0.9.1-3ubuntu1 ?
[04:52] <crimsun> yep.
[04:52] <DktrKranz> good
[04:52] <DktrKranz> how would you manage upload of it?
[04:53] <crimsun> DktrKranz: from the sponsor side, or..?
[04:53] <DktrKranz> I refer to debuild options
[04:54] <persia> Does anyone know where I can ask about the status of the authentication database for the wiki?
[04:54] <Hobbsee> persia: try #launchpad maybe
[04:54] <DktrKranz> this case tarballs were not the same
[04:54] <Hobbsee> persia: as it's using launchpad to do logins, etc
[04:54] <persia> Hobbsee: Ah, if the wiki uses launchpad, I don't need to ask.  Thanks.
[04:54] <Hobbsee> launchpad is down atm
[04:54] <DktrKranz> should you prepare a -S -sa upload?
[04:54] <crimsun> DktrKranz: no, we'll use the existing Ubuntu orig.tar.gz, so no -sa
[04:55] <crimsun> DktrKranz: debuild -S -v0.9.1-0ubuntu1
[04:55] <DktrKranz> is -sa used in other situations?
[04:55] <persia> DktrKranz: The general rule is to only use -sa when you are looking at a new upstream version.
[04:56] <DktrKranz> ok, thanks
[04:59] <poningru_> halp
[04:59] <poningru_> package mayavi
[04:59] <poningru_> requires python 2.4 and throws error on that
[04:59] <poningru_> since we have python 2.5
[04:59] <poningru_> at work so cant file bug
[04:59] <poningru_> bbl
[05:00] <persia> poningru: Congratulations.  You've found a target for a fix!
[05:08] <leonel> Hobbsee: crimsun thanks 
[05:14] <alfredoj69> thank you crimsun, have good weekend everybody
[05:15] <afflux> persia: I think I did the wordpress CVEs for dapper. Would you like to review my debdiff?
[05:16] <persia> afflux: I'd be happy to take a look.  LP is down (for me) right now.  If it's small could you pastebin it (somewhere other than paste.ubuntu-nl.org), and if it's large, could you put it somewhere else for me to find?
[05:17] <afflux> persia: http://paste.stgraber.org/1131
[05:17] <joejaxx> anyone notice LP's css is broken?
[05:18] <persia> joejaxx: If only the CSS is broken for you, you're doing better than I.  There's been a code release recently, and LP is probably coming back up still.  Reload in a few minutes.
[05:18] <joejaxx> persia: ah ok
[05:19] <afflux> persia: I've fixed only 3 vulns since the fourth was in a file (wp-includes/general-template.php) that doesn't seem to exist.
[05:19] <persia> afflux: That's fine.
[05:20] <afflux> ah, distribution should be dapper-security, shouldn't it?
[05:20] <persia> afflux: Probably.  You'll eventually want to hunt a member of the security team for a proper review.
[05:21] <afflux> persia: okay. should I just put the debdiff on launchpad in bug 111620 (where the four vulns were mentioned) and wait for them to look at it?
[05:21] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 111620 in wordpress "Remote Exploits: multiple vulnerabilities" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/111620
[05:23] <persia> Hey.  Launchpad :)   Yay!  Yes, but if you wait until my review is complete, you'll have to upload one less revision of the patch :)
[05:23] <afflux> ah, okay :D
[05:25] <persia> afflux: http://paste.stgraber.org/1132
[05:26] <afflux> k, thx
[05:28] <leonel> after reading  about  clamav  on  ubuntu-meeting log   was like I was  represented  ...  :)
[05:33] <afflux> persia: got to disturb you again :) what do you mean by "When uploading, please identify the source of the patch"? Where? In the changelog? In the patched file? And how? I got the changes from the fixed upstream, so should I just add that?
[05:34] <persia> afflux: I'm not an expert for security uploads, but I'd say something like "backported patch from 2.1.8" (or whatever), just to help the really paranoid trust you.
[05:35] <joejaxx> paranoid == secure :P
[05:35] <afflux> persia: okay, I'll add it to the changelog then
[05:35] <crimsun> then you need to state that you "extracted from upstream changes"
[05:35] <crimsun> e.g.,
[05:35] <crimsun> +  * SECURITY UPDATE: Denial of service (daemon crash).
[05:35] <crimsun> +  * 10_fix_DoS_vulns.dpatch: extracted from upstream changes
[05:35] <crimsun> +    (CVE-2007-1804)
[05:36] <afflux> okay, thanks crimsun and persia 
[05:36] <crimsun> afflux: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityUpdateProcedures , but be aware that it's outdated.
[05:36] <persia> crimsun: Thanks.
[05:37] <crimsun> afflux: e.g., security-review@ no longer exists
[05:42] <joejaxx> crimsun: if there is a numbering system just increment the last patch number? (excluding 9{1-9}'s)
[05:42] <joejaxx> crimsun: for dpatch
[05:43] <crimsun> joejaxx: follow the source package's existing scheme
[05:43] <crimsun> but essentially, yes.
[05:43] <joejaxx> ok
[05:44] <persia> Will MoM keep running until release, or does it stop during latter freeze periods?
[05:45] <crimsun> stops after DebianImportFreeze
[05:46] <persia> PIty that.  It'd be nice to have the recommended patches available for cherrypicking.  I'll draft a manual mechanism.
[05:46] <crimsun> DaD could be used
[05:46] <persia> crimsun: Hmmm..  Good idea.  Thanks.
[05:47] <luisbg> hello all
[05:47] <crimsun> hi.
[05:49] <luisbg> hey crimsun =)
[05:49] <luisbg> hey joejaxx !
[05:49] <joejaxx> hello luisbg :)
[05:49] <luisbg> how is all joe?
[05:50] <joejaxx> luisbg: it is well :)
[05:50] <luisbg> joejaxx, great
[05:52] <joejaxx> luisbg: just doing some motuhopeship work :)
[05:53] <luisbg> joejaxx, cool, we are all becoming motus soon
[05:53] <joejaxx> luisbg: well me probably longer :P
[05:53] <luisbg> damn... this month is going to be crazy for me... too much collegue work
[05:53] <luisbg> after that
[05:53] <luisbg> into the motu path
[05:53] <luisbg> joejaxx, longer because you do a zillion things at the same time?
[05:54] <joejaxx> luisbg: no not that
[05:55] <joejaxx> luisbg: i will not go for motuship until i feel confident enough in myself to uploading packages
[05:56] <joejaxx> right now i have to go through a sponsor which means someone is checking them
[05:57] <luisbg> joejaxx, I understand
[05:58] <joejaxx> even though they may be correct i still like people checking them :)
[05:59] <luisbg> just to make sure you haven't screwed up
[05:59] <luisbg> gotta go have lunch
[05:59] <luisbg> ciao all!
[05:59] <joejaxx> luisbg: :)
[06:06] <joejaxx> great time to build kdebindings :P
[06:10] <joejaxx> this might sound like a weird question
[06:11] <joejaxx> but is there a ubuntu-main-sponsors?
[06:11] <joejaxx> ie who does uploads for packages in main that people submit debdiffs for?
[06:16] <crimsun> joejaxx: yes, there is.
[06:17] <joejaxx> ah ok
[06:20] <joejaxx> i wonder how long it is going to take to build this package
[06:21] <joejaxx> as it create an assortment of binary packages
[06:29] <geser> joejaxx: the last kdebindings build took ca. 45 minutes on the Ubuntu buildds
[06:31] <joejaxx> interesting
[06:31] <joejaxx> geser: thanks
[06:42] <jekil> hello
[06:44] <joejaxx> hello
[06:50] <jekil> someone can review, please? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5264
[06:50] <joejaxx> if a package has a version number like: package-1234build1 and i am going to make a ubuntu modification does the build1 stay and turn into build1ubuntu1?
[06:51] <persia> joejaxx: No.  Just 1234ubuntu1.
[06:51] <joejaxx> persia: ok thanks
[06:51] <persia> joejaxx: The XbuildY versions usually don't have Ubuntu maintainers, so be sure to adjust that.
[06:52] <joejaxx> yeap i changed that :)
[06:55] <joejaxx> j-dizzle: :P hello
[06:55] <j-dizzle> hey joejaxx 
[06:57] <j-dizzle> I should try a tickless kernel on this machine
[07:05] <joejaxx> nice 
[07:05] <joejaxx> just got four bugs done
[07:05] <joejaxx> :)
[07:07] <persia> joejaxx: Congratulations!  Only 30448 to go!
[07:07] <joejaxx> persia: haha
[07:07] <joejaxx> :P
[07:08] <joejaxx> jdong and it quit messages haha
[07:08] <persia> joejaxx: No, really.  You've just covered more than 1/100 of a percent of the bugs.  Given the numbers I've heard for Ubuntu users, that means that if all bugs are equal, you've made 800 people happy.
[07:08] <joejaxx> his*
[07:08] <joejaxx> persia: :)
[07:21] <astro73_> I have code, how do I turn that into a package for ubuntu?
[07:22] <persia> astro73_: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Packaging/Tips might help.
[07:25] <astro73_> k, thanx
[07:25] <jekil> if i upload a new revision of a package to revu, i lost the advocates point of previous revision?
[07:26] <jussi01> jekil: yes
[07:26] <persia> jekil: Yep.  There's no easy way to tell you didn't put sneaky code in that breaks the system.  Just ask the previous advocate to advocate again, if you can catch them.
[07:28] <jekil> persia: ok, thansk
[07:28] <jekil> persia: i upload a new package, following your comments http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5264
[07:29] <persia> jekil: I'm drafting a document right now.  Would you mind if I checked that in an hour or so?
[07:30] <jekil> persia: yeah, no problem, thank you a lot
[07:54] <joejaxx> hmm
[07:55] <joejaxx> evince has a maintainer line of Maintainer: Ubuntu Desktop Team <ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com>
[07:55] <tsmithe> hmm
[07:55] <joejaxx> should that me changed as well?
[07:55] <joejaxx> be*
[07:56] <joejaxx> to the MOTU one? or are certain packages special
[07:56] <persia> joejaxx: No, anything@ubuntu.com is acceptable.  When it's not standard, that means that a specific team has elected to take specific responsibility for the package.
[07:56] <joejaxx> ah ok
[07:56] <joejaxx> so i leave it
[07:57] <joejaxx> that is weird
[07:57] <joejaxx> this package has a control.in
[07:58] <azeem> that's not uncommon
[07:58] <persia> joejaxx: That means that the debian/control file is built automatically.  Sometimes this happens at build time, and sometimes only at the request of the maintainer.  If you need to change it, change both control.in and control.
[07:58] <joejaxx> ok
[08:00] <joejaxx> hmm
[08:00] <joejaxx> persia: how should it be documented in the changelog?
[08:00] <joejaxx> just debian/control ?
[08:00] <joejaxx> or both files
[08:02] <persia> joejaxx: What type of change are you making?
[08:02] <joejaxx> persia: just adding a package to suggests
[08:02] <joejaxx> ah
[08:02] <joejaxx> nevermind
[08:02] <joejaxx> they only put control.in
[08:02] <persia> joejaxx: :)
[08:08] <joejaxx> persia: this will be number 7
[08:09] <mocker> Hello.
[08:09] <joejaxx> hello
[08:12] <persia> joejaxx: :)
[08:20] <dsas> When merging, does it need to be noted that the XSBC-Original-Maintainer field differs from the debian package? 
[08:20] <persia> dsas: Yes.
[08:20] <dsas> persia: ok, thanks :)
[08:21] <persia> dsas: If it was done previously, include it in "Retained Changes".  If you are doing it for the first time, it get's a new *.
[08:23] <dsas> persia: "retained changes"? Is that the same as Remaining Changes or am I reading incomplete docs?
[08:24] <persia> dsas: Sorry.  "Remaining Changes" is probably correct.
[08:31] <dsas> Does Ubuntu still use /var/www over /srv/www ? (Debian uses the latter)
[08:36] <nixternal> dsas: yes
[08:36] <persia> If anyone (including Contributors) has time, I'd appreciate a any comments anyone might have on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing
[08:38] <joejaxx> dsas: /var/www
[08:38] <dsas> Cool, just checking. Thanks guys.
[08:40] <LaserJock> hmm, anybody got any bright ideas about where/how to get a semi-official repo?
[08:40] <persia> LaserJock: How semi-official?
[08:41] <LaserJock> like, for me :-)
[08:41] <LaserJock> I'm semi-official aren't I ;-)
[08:41] <persia> LaserJock: Like a PPA?
[08:41] <LaserJock> yes, like PPA
[08:41] <nixternal> persia: looks good, but I think for some new users, there might need to be a little more explanation of what some of the commands do..otherwise it looks good
[08:41] <LaserJock> but it'd be nice if it was something I could do this week and not wait until PPA lands
[08:42] <persia> LaserJock: For an "official" one, I think we have to wait.  Do you have a host on the internet someone to which you can upload content?
[08:42] <nixternal> I am in the PPA
[08:42] <persia> nixternal: Share.
[08:42] <nixternal> Poker Players Alliance
[08:42] <nixternal> been a member for a long long time
[08:42] <nixternal> haha
[08:42] <nixternal> what is this PPA you are referring to?
[08:42] <LaserJock> persia: well, I don't really have much of a host for this size
[08:43] <LaserJock> nixternal: Personal Package Archives
[08:43] <nixternal> rock on
[08:43] <persia> nixternal: I'm hoping that people will read the docs, join this channel, or speak with their mentor about that (plus `man foo` is good practice).
[08:43] <nixternal> persia: I agree, but you will be getting a ton of users who have never seen the command line (possibly)
[08:44] <nixternal> I shouldn't say a ton, next you need to blog about it, then you will get a ton
[08:44] <persia> nixternal: I don't want a ton.  Only interested parties need apply.
[08:44] <LaserJock> persia: which doc? MOTU wiki stuff?
[08:44] <nixternal> hehe
[08:45] <persia> LaserJock: Yep.  The MOTU/Contributing doc I just wrote.
[08:45] <nixternal> I would like to read the full specification for PPH, but ummm..I am not a Canonical employee ;)
[08:46] <nixternal> heh, PPH
[08:46] <nixternal> argh...PPA
[08:46] <persia> nixternal: As I understand it, there will be an additional archive into which individuals belonging to the correct LP teams will be able to upload content for autobuild and user download.
[08:46] <nixternal> nice
[08:47] <nixternal> kind of like what I do here at home, but instead have access to all of the architectures instead of just i386 and amd64
[08:47] <LaserJock> actually
[08:47] <LaserJock> PPA will only be i386
[08:47] <LaserJock> perhaps amd64 but that'll be all, for now
[08:48] <nixternal> so really, it is no different than saying John Doe creating a package and uploading it to *-apps.org for everyone to download?
[08:48] <LaserJock> depends on how well Xen works on amd64
[08:48] <nixternal> Xen works great from what I seen at the Red Hat offices recently
[08:48] <LaserJock> well, the goal is that each person and team on launchpad can have their own repo
[08:49] <persia> nixternal: roughly, although it solves the use case for LaserJock, who doesn't have a good host for upload today.
[08:49] <nixternal> ya, same here
[08:49] <LaserJock> so like ~revu can hold the repo for stuff on REVU
[08:49] <LaserJock> and it has access restrictions, etc.
[08:49] <nixternal> persia: thanks for putting it that way...makes much more since now
[08:49] <LaserJock> all in Launchpad
[08:49] <nixternal> hehe, you think?
[08:49] <LaserJock> that's actually one of the big use-cases for PPA
[08:50] <LaserJock> in the end it's supposed to be anybody with a LP account
[08:50] <LaserJock> but it sounds like they aren't going to make it that wild to start with ;-)
[08:50] <nixternal> well, with revu it would be good so that you can have multiple users test your package on their system
[08:50] <persia> LaserJock: Really?  Why?  Doesn't that invite more random crack?
[08:50] <LaserJock> sure
[08:50] <LaserJock> the point being
[08:50] <LaserJock> upstreams can have packages
[08:50] <LaserJock> contributors can have packages
[08:50] <nixternal> great way to work out bugs you may not be able to pick up..just let the user know that the packages are unsupported and are used only for testing purposes or such
[08:50] <LaserJock> it's tons and tons of great crack
[08:51] <nixternal> haha
[08:51] <persia> I see.  Upstream packages are a big missing feature in LP.  That will be very good.
[08:51] <LaserJock> then we get to pick out the good stuff
[08:51] <nixternal> making MOTU work a little easier
[08:51] <nixternal> well at least the "amount" of work
[08:51] <LaserJock> perhaps
[08:51] <LaserJock> we'll see
[08:52] <nixternal> I am going to get some Debian training tomorrow. I am meeting up with a DD who has been packaging since 95 for Debian..plus he is going to sign my key :)
[08:52] <persia> My worry is that john marketeer will advertise their crack as "From the Ubuntu Servers" on a blog or widely visited forum, and we'll get the bugs.
[08:52] <LaserJock> it should be fairly similar to the the Novell/SUSE build service thingy
[08:52] <nixternal> ahhh, ya I know all about that one LaserJock ;p
[08:52] <LaserJock> persia: well, the current situation isn't a ton different
[08:52] <LaserJock> we have tons and tons of 3rd party repo
[08:53] <LaserJock> it could possibly help us in that it might be easier to track
[08:53] <persia> LaserJock: I suppose you're right, but the URLs are rather different, which might help.
[08:55] <LaserJock> yeah, I'm just not sure what to expect
[08:55] <LaserJock> we'll just have to try it
[08:56] <LaserJock> for me personally I think it'd be great
[08:56] <persia> It was my big motivation for my application.
[08:57] <nixternal> whatever happened with the sources thing? you know where all of the sources went into a repo and you hacked from it which would in turn build out?
[08:57] <nixternal> I forgot what it was called already
[08:57] <persia> nixternal: It has been indefinitely postponed.
[08:58] <nixternal> heh, is that similar to the way debian does it, it isn't the source, just the debian/ directories with branches, tags, and trunk?
[08:58] <persia> nixternal: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/no-more-source-packages
[08:58] <nixternal> ya that is it
[08:58] <persia> nixternal: It went farther than that.  VCS imports of upstream branches.
[08:58] <nixternal> ya, that would be cool
[08:59] <persia> nixternal: You lose the md5 check, so it's a lot harder to identify local changes, or that the original source is what you thought it was.
[09:03] <LaserJock> \o/
[09:03] <LaserJock> _o/
[09:03] <LaserJock> \o_
[09:04] <LaserJock> \o/
[09:04] <persia> Calisthenics?
[09:04] <LaserJock> that's my PPA dance
[09:05] <LaserJock> we'll test it out with 700MB worth of TeX love ;-)
[09:05] <persia> heh
[09:05] <LaserJock> bbiab
[09:10] <leonel> !paste
[09:11] <ubotwo> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
[09:12] <joejaxx> jussi01: :P
[09:12] <joejaxx> jussi01: how are you?
[09:12] <jussi01> joejaxx: Im good
[09:12] <jussi01> and you?
[09:13] <joejaxx> i am doing well
[09:14] <jussi01> thanks persia
[09:30] <\sh> re
[09:31] <nixternal> er
[09:31] <\sh> does anybody use opie for authentication?
[09:31] <nixternal> heh, someone was just talking about that this past week in here
[09:31] <\sh> especially on dapper...and tried to use opiepasswd -f ?
[09:31] <persia> It's broken.
[09:31] <\sh> this tool doesn't ask for a passphrase when started remotely...
[09:32] <\sh> feisties NMU uploads from debian but does
[09:32] <\sh> possible to fix it?
[09:32] <persia> Specifically, there are insufficient permissions to make it work properly, but if this is fixed by setting it suid, there is a way that any user may access any other users account.
[09:33] <\sh> well, what's the difference between feisty and dapper? on feisty it works without any problems
[09:33] <persia> Only by changing the code to run suid safe, and check the UID of the calling user to make sure that it is not used to access a different keystore.
[09:34] <\sh> but this is not the problem right now, with different behaviours
[09:35] <\sh> argl...this tool is broken like hell
[09:35] <persia> Odd.  Two weeks ago when the topic came up, I was able to replicate bug 61335 in feisty and dapper.  What problem are you having again?
[09:35] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 61335 in opie "opieinfo isn't setuid, whilst opiepasswd is" [Undecided,Rejected]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/61335
[09:36] <\sh> opiepasswd -f gives you no passphrase dialog, but opiepasswd -c -f is
[09:40] <persia> RIght.  Are you running opiepasswd -f in a terminal emulator, or on console?
[09:40] <\sh> persia, yepp...-f should just run further
[09:40] <joejaxx> anyone here experienced with the evince package?
[09:40] <\sh> opiepasswd -c -f works as expected
[09:41] <persia> \sh: I think that opiepasswd -f should work fine on a console, but that you'd need opiepasswd -c -f if you're not on a console (at least from my reading of the manpage).
[09:41] <\sh> yepp
[09:41] <persia> But -f fails on a console?
[09:42] <\sh> nope...but doesn't give you the possibility to enter a passphrase
[09:43] <persia> Right.  I failed to define "fails" previously.  Hrm.  Let me look.
[09:44] <\sh> but everything else is working
[09:45] <\sh> checking 61335 bug
[09:46] <persia> It's annoying, but doesn't interfere with operations as much as this new one.
[09:48] <\sh> hmmm..reporter rejected it ;)
[09:48] <persia> Hmmm.  libopie/insecure.c is more opaque than I expected, but I believe it to be the source of the problem.
[09:49] <persia> \sh: nixternal and I convinced the reporter that it was better off left along (fixing it causes a big security hole).
[09:49] <persia> s/along/alone/
[09:52] <persia> ls
[09:52] <\sh> persia, what I don't understand is, when you invoke opiepasswd the first time, you have to use -c (when you are on the console), while being remote just do an opiepasswd -f without passphrase?
[09:55] <persia> \sh: My understanding is that the first time you used it you used a real passphrase, and when using it remotely, you needed to use the OTP.  If opiepasswd -f works remotely, without requireing the OTP, opie is pointlessly broken.
[09:55] <\sh> persia, well, without the initial passphrase it should be useless too ;)
[09:56] <\sh> btw... opieinfo would be a bit more secure, checking only the info for the calling user
[09:57] <\sh> just because everyone can query now the sequence and challenge from other users..
[09:57] <persia> \sh:Right.  But the security model forces the initial passwd from a "safe" location.  libopie/insecure.c does it's best to ensure that the communication cannot be evesdropped upon, which means that the passphrase can remain static, and the passwords are all one-time.  You can force it be secure with -c -f .  WIth -f (and no -c), you can't enter the passphrase, because I could snoop, and collect the passphrase, and then spoof opie into giving me a
[09:59] <\sh> how hard would it be for a man in the middle to spy out my ssh session?
[09:59] <\sh> .oO(i wonder how hard it would be to combine OTP with ldap auth)
[09:59] <persia> \sh:About 250,000 USD hard.  Generally not worth it.
[10:00] <\sh> ok something for the nsa...but when I'm being spied by the nsa, I'm worth more then 250k USD ;)
[10:00] <persia> \sh: Right.  Opie is intended to support that type of user (but it's broken).
[10:02] <\sh> persia, any free system available which is doing OTPs securely and with not costing much..I don't want to rely on tokens, usb-tokens with certs etc. I just want to have something easy for the plain user in an office..but not with changing passwords every week for them
[10:04] <persia> \sh: If you're just doing something to prevent the annoyance of passwd rotation, either use -c -f, or use opieinfo as root to generate the user keys for them (with passphrase parsed from /dev/random).
[10:05] <persia> In other words, you don't really need to be that secure.
[10:06] <persia> The last time I used an S/Key implementation, the administrator gave me a piece of paper, and I was responsible for knowing which number password I was on.  When I was about to run out of passwords, the admin gave me another piece of paper.
[10:06] <\sh> persia, actually, right now I'm responsible for giving out ldap accounts and first time passwords...the user doesn't have the possibility to change the password itself, because we want to reduce the risk of having the users cats name or the birthdate of his girlfriend in there
[10:07] <persia> \sh:Can you distribute paper safely, or are you remote?
[10:07] <\sh> persia, means, opie e.g. is starting from 499 downto 1
[10:07] <\sh> persia, paper is not a problem :)
[10:08] <persia> \sh:I advise only giving users about 50 passwords at a time.  It's a little more hassle, but they'll lose the paper after a couple months anyway.
[10:09] <persia> \sh: You can generate the list of their upcoming passwords with opiekey -n 42 `opieinfo $user`
[10:09] <\sh> persia, and is it possible to combine this opie stuff with ldap-auth ? right now, we are authorizing users against ldap ... when I can combine it somehow, that would be the right solution
[10:09] <persia> I don't know.  I've never configured LDAP auth (except by accident for clients with 100% Windows environments).
[10:10] <\sh> the problem is imho the opiekeys file
[10:10] <\sh> on the system
[10:11] <persia> Could you adjust opie to use a special odd location for opiekeys, and have all the hosts sshfs mount that location?
[10:12] <persia> (or shfs if you prefer)
[10:13] <persia> jussi01: It compiled fine.  I'm digging through the diff (but got distracted - I like security)
[10:14] <jussi01> hehe, fair enough, didnt want to annoy you too much :d
[10:15] <\sh> ./debian/changelog:  * /etc/opiekeys is mode 600 for possible security reasons. 
[10:15] <\sh> but
[10:15] <\sh> -rw-r--r-- 1 root sthe 136 2007-05-25 22:20 /etc/opiekeys
[10:16] <persia> It's broken :)
[10:16] <joejaxx> wow
[10:16] <\sh> why is it gid?
[10:16] <\sh> damn
[10:17] <\sh> damn
[10:18] <\sh> dappers version is broken
[10:18] <\sh> feisties is correct
[10:18] <\sh> 600 
[10:23] <persia> jussi01: Commented.  Almost there.  I could only find little problems :)
[10:24] <\sh> hmmm
[10:26] <\sh> why is /etc/opiekeys not set correctly...on dapper...when I set it manually...it works correctly
[10:28] <persia> \sh: SRU?
[10:29] <\sh> persia, the package is correct...the permission in the deb package are 600 and root:root...I'll try to find out what triggered the change from 600 to 644 and from root:root to root:sthe
[10:29] <persia> Do you have a g+s somewhere?
[10:29] <\sh> g+s?
[10:30] <persia> chmod g+s is how I make directories sgid, which autosets group for children.  I'm not sure about the 644.
[10:31] <\sh> nope
[10:32] <imbrandon> oh wow, i LOVE my work, i just got this im my email ....
[10:32] <imbrandon> quote ( this is from the owner of the company ) " .... I have reserved the entire VIP balcony at the Legends 14 theater on July 3 for  the  pre-release showing of Transformers.  We have 84 seats reserved, so guests will be welcome.  All attendees must be 21 years of  age.  The VIP Balcony is a full service bar and theater with a lounge to socialize before the movie .... "
[10:33] <joejaxx> lol
[10:33] <imbrandon> hehe
[10:34] <LaserJock> my boss sends me an email that says "Where the freakin' data?" ;-)
[10:34] <imbrandon> hehe
[10:34] <joejaxx> LaserJock: :P
[10:34] <imbrandon> man that made my day
[10:35] <joejaxx> (LP: #BUGNUM) is required right?
[10:35] <LaserJock> it's not required, but it's good practice
[10:35] <joejaxx> oh ok
[10:35] <LaserJock> one of these day doing LP: #number will actually close the bug automatically
[10:35] <joejaxx> because i left it out on the kdebindings one by accident :(
[10:35] <\sh> persia, hmmm..strange..I redid all the steps I made in the beginning...think I've to test it on a new dapper install on thursday in the office
[10:36] <\sh> persia, and you can set the default keyfile location during build time 
[10:36] <persia> \sh: It worked normally on reinstall / reconfigure, or broken in the same way?
[10:37] <persia> \sh:You might want to rebuild for your LDAP interaction, but I'm not sure that's something for the archives.  A runtime switch on the other hand...
[10:37] <\sh> persia, right now, I didn't make a reinstall...will do it on tuesday..
[10:37] <\sh> persia, problem with ldap+pam
[10:37] <joejaxx> LaserJock: and kdebindings takes an hour to build :P
[10:37] <\sh> is, that ldap is serving as well the password
[10:37] <persia> \sh: Good luck.  I've never used opie, but I'm starting to learn a lot about it, and wouldn't mind hearing more.
[10:38] <joejaxx> LaserJock: i should probably do it again anyway since it is a component main package
[10:38] <\sh> persia, if I find a method to push the /etc/opiekey file  somewhere in ldap...
[10:38] <persia> \sh:Sounds like you'll either have to have LDAP query opie for the password, or have LDAP only provide the username.  There's a PAM S/Key out there, which might help with integration.
[10:44] <\sh> persia, I'll read a bit more first...if it's possible
[10:45] <persia> \sh: It'd be a coup if you could.  Solves the whole password on the sticky on the monitor problem for everyone :)
[10:45] <LaserJock> joejaxx: being thorough is usually a good idea
[10:47] <\sh> argl...what is that?
[10:47] <\sh> sasl-host       kerberos.mydomain.de
[10:47] <\sh> sasl-realm      MYDOMAIN.DE
[10:47] <\sh> #sasl-secprops  none
[10:47] <\sh> srvtab          /etc/openldap/krb5.keytab
[10:47] <\sh> ...
[11:00] <imbrandon> http://www.imbrandon.com/index.php/2007/05/25/and-im-linux/
[11:01] <imbrandon> drive by blog spamming
[11:01] <imbrandon> :)
[11:02] <persia> IRC is worse than RSS at cluttering my browser cache.
[11:03] <imbrandon> lol
[11:04] <\sh> gnarf...debootstrap via utms 384kBit/s connection is not a good idea
[11:05] <persia> \sh: ouch !
[11:06] <\sh> looks like that I will switch to vpn first, to get my hands on a fast machine with 10gbit/s 
[11:06] <\sh> brb
[11:10] <Seveas> tepsipakki, pong
[11:11] <persia> Seveas: Is there by any chance an IP filter on paste.ubuntu-nl.org?  It oddly doesn't work for me unless I use an anonymous proxy.
[11:12] <Seveas> persia, not that I know of. just a javascript based antispam thing
[11:13] <persia> Seveas: Is that just the one to block posting, or does it also block browsing?
[11:13] <Seveas> persia, only posting
[11:13] <persia> Seveas: Hmmm.  Thanks.
[11:13] <astro73_> is there an equivelent of dh_installinit for upstart?
[11:15] <jikanter> does someone have a working pbuilder config for feisty, sid, dapper, and gutsy they would be willing to share? mine seems to fail for feisty, but the others seem to work
[11:16] <jikanter> astro73_: I think since upstart is event-driven and backwards compatible, it should work as it is, but don't quote me on that
[11:17] <astro73_> it's backwards compatible in the sense that you can run sysv scripts with the compatibility files
[11:18] <jikanter> yeah, I am not sure
[11:20] <astro73_> dh_installupstart hasn't even made it into google yet
[11:20] <\sh> re
[11:28] <joejaxx> has anyone seen the ubuntu homepage?
[11:29] <imbrandon> joejaxx, WOW
[11:32] <\sh> fck...this is something for me
[11:32] <\sh> http://images.businessweek.com/ss/07/05/0524_metrolaptop/index_01.htm
[11:32] <joejaxx> imbrandon: yeah that was my reaction as well
[11:32] <\sh> who is sponsoring this little thing
[11:33] <joejaxx> shawarma: wow that is nice
[11:33] <\sh> it's a bit higher then the razr of motorola...awesome little bitchy laptop...
[11:34] <\sh> and I thought I have one of the slim notebooks ever ;)
[11:34] <joejaxx> \sh: Ziba Designs apparently
[11:35] <joejaxx> came up with the design and concept
[11:36] <xxxxx1> imbrandon, joejaxx: www.dell.com/ubuntu
[11:36] <imbrandon> xxxxx1, http://www.ubuntu.com/dell :)
[11:37] <\sh> xxxxx1, sad thing it's only available in US this ubuntu dell thing
[11:37] <xxxxx1> imbrandon: no, have a dell page too
[11:37] <xxxxx1> \sh: just for now
[11:38] <joejaxx> \sh: hopefully it expands to other areas
[11:39] <xxxxx1> bye people
[11:39] <\sh> joejaxx, hopefully they will decrease the price....to catch the masses it can only be done with a low price
[11:39] <joejaxx> \sh: yeap
[11:39] <joejaxx> \sh: exactly
[11:43] <astro73_> there's all this documentation dealing with ported-to-debian packages. what about direct-to-debian packages?
[11:44] <\sh> which documentation?
[11:44] <astro73_> virtually the entire system seems to assume NIH
[11:44] <astro73_> at least, all the tools
[11:47] <persia> astro73_: For Direct to Debian, the documentation is on Debian site, but I'm not finding a good guide.  Basically you file a RFP against WNPP, and retitle to ITP, and coordinate with a DD (Debian likes acronyms).
[11:47] <astro73_> by "debian", I more ment the package system than the Debian distribution
[11:48] <tepsipakki> Seveas: sorry, I wanted to ask about falcon.. it seems that a functional version on feisty is still some time off?
[11:49] <persia> astro73_: Ah.  In that case, there's a separation between "upstream" and "distribution" so that the upstream sources remain suitable for release in other distributions (e.g. Fedora, SuSE, etc.).  In many cases the same people do both, but by separating the distribution can usually safely make integration changes without needing to have a new upstream package, etc.
[11:50] <astro73_> it also introduces a seeming layer of complexity
[11:52] <\sh> hmmm?? you mean the split between "upstream" tar balls and distribution specific packages?
[11:52] <astro73_> something like that
[11:52] <astro73_> I'm just trying to get something working here
[11:52] <astro73_> the packaging shouldn't confuse me
[11:53] <\sh> well, that's something I'm trying since 22 years now :)
[11:58] <jekil> hello
[11:58] <joejaxx> hello
[11:58] <persia> jekil: While you were away, I left a comment.
[12:00] <jekil> persia: thanks
[12:05] <joejaxx> that is interesting
[12:06] <persia> joejaxx: ?
[12:11] <joejaxx> persia: i need to correct a build dep
[12:11] <joejaxx> in a package i was building
[12:12] <persia> joejaxx: OK.  Do you know which you need?
[12:12] <joejaxx> for some reason
[12:12] <joejaxx> libkpathsea4-dev | libkpathsea-dev
[12:12] <joejaxx> i in the build dep list for evince
[12:12] <joejaxx> the first package does not even exist
[12:13] <joejaxx> i wonder how that happened
[12:14] <persia> joejaxx: I think libkpathsea-dev is a real package now (not virtual) due to the texlive changes.  That's likely the issue.