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Hobbseemorning all03:28
Jucatomoin Hobbsee!!!03:29
Hobbseedarn.  koffice ftbfs03:30
=== claydoh missed tha fact it was towel day today :(
JucatoI'm not a geek, so I have no idea what that is all about :)03:31
Hobbseesilly Jucato :)03:32
claydohme, neither, I think,l but I am a big Hitch hikers guide to the Galaxy fan03:32
JucatoI am neither :)03:32
claydohDouglas Adams was a mad genius03:32
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DaSkreechdamn No manchicken -(04:22
DaSkreechFSF has gone nuts04:23
DaSkreechhi Hobbsee04:24
DaSkreechWhat's wrong?04:24
Hobbseehey DaSkreech :)04:24
HobbseeFSF?  no idea.  how's it gone nuts?04:24
DaSkreechthey want google to release their code04:28
DaSkreechthat's kinda undermining a lot of stuff that's been built up04:30
Jucato"[The title is horribly off-base - makes it seem like the GPLv3 will require Google, et. al., to distribute their in-house modified libre software. The article makes it clear this is untrue, but the title is very misleading. - dcparris] " (from an LXer.com editor)04:30
DaSkreechthey aren't mandating it04:30
DaSkreechwell to be more specific Moglen wants them04:31
DaSkreechStallman isn't for it04:32
DaSkreechdidn't Moglen step down recently?04:32
DaSkreechand Google of all people...04:34
DaSkreechIt's kinda boggling04:34
DaSkreechin other news :-) What would it take for disks to mount on the desktop in Kubuntu?04:35
Jucatodon't they do that already automatically?04:36
DaSkreechNot on my box :-(04:38
DaSkreechhal does that right?04:39
DaSkreechhow are you Jucato ?04:41
DaSkreechI missed my manners:)04:41
Jucatohi DaSkreech :)04:46
Jucato(was out)04:46
DaSkreechOh out of the house04:46
JucatoDaSkreech: but it does mount them properly right?04:46
DaSkreechI read that as passed out...04:47
DaSkreechJucato: If i mount them04:47
JucatoDaSkreech: right-click on the desktop -> COnfigure Desktop -> Behavior -> Device Icons ?04:48
DaSkreechHmm I'll try that tomorrow04:48
DaSkreechI should play with those more I tragically ignore my desktop04:54
n8k99hi Jucato05:02
Jucatohi n8k99!!!! :)05:02
n8k99nice looking monitor!05:02
Jucatohehe thanks :)05:02
=== Jucato just loves it.. everything sooo big now :)
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Jucatohm... looks like I could survive Sans size 8 fonts :)05:04
=== n8k99 uses 6s in kate
n8k99you know now that i have a nifty monitor like you05:05
Jucatoheheh :)05:07
JucatoI don't think my eyes can stand size 6 :D05:07
n8k99i only do it for code05:07
Jucatoall the more reason :)05:07
=== Jucato tries
Jucatoomg this is just crazy :)05:08
Hobbseeanyone else in gutsy atm/05:16
Hobbseehttps://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdepim/+bug/116771 - anyone else get this?05:16
Hobbseemyself and freeflying dont, but it seems various people, including forums people are05:16
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mhbgood morning09:52
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marseillaiRiddell: i've make a debdiff for kopete gutsy with this patch http://www.kde-apps.org/content/show.php/Kopete+Emoticons+Manager?content=54968 build is ok and apps works fine now. i send it to you or I upload to revu ?12:02
Riddellmarseillai: revu is good12:03
marseillaiRiddell: is it possible to upload a debdiff or i have to upload kdenetwork_3.5.7-1ubuntu2_source.changes ?12:10
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Riddellmarseillai: you have to upload the whole thing12:29
Riddellmarseillai: which is fine, I just download it, compare to the old version and upload.  saves having to apply the diff myself :)12:30
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marseillaiRiddell: i don't understand01:08
marseillaithe patch is ok for gutsy and nothing more to do ?01:11
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mhbgot a link for everyone interested in kdesu features:01:27
mhbtoo bad manchicken isn't around01:28
mhbRiddell: do you think the kdesu's ability to display a custom message instead of "Insert your password." is a security risk?01:30
mhbRiddell: we talked about it a while ago, I've had a few minutes time, so I coded those few lines.01:30
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mhbRiddell: one particular use case is when a user clicks on the adept_updater's tray icon ... the new dialog seems better to me01:31
mhb(the new comment, that is)01:31
Hobbseehey all01:33
marseillaiyop Hobbsee01:34
marseillaiHobbsee: you ask me to keep you aware for kdenetwork : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=527801:34
marseillaiworks fine01:35
Hobbseemarseillai: did you have a debdiff of your changes, as it was only a patch you were adding?01:35
Hobbseeit's often easier to see with a debdiff01:35
marseillaiHobbsee: yes i have01:35
=== Hobbsee cant upload, inciently
marseillaiHobbsee: but Riddell told me something about it i didn't understand (english comprehension)01:36
Hobbseewhat was it?01:36
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HobbseeJucato: which version of kdevelop were you after?03:02
Jucatoer not me. 3.4.103:02
Jucatojust a question/request from users in #kubuntu and KFN... just echoing it03:03
Hobbseeah right03:03
Hobbseesarah@LongPointyStick:~$ madison kdevelop03:03
Hobbsee  kdevelop | 4:3.4.1-0ubuntu2 | http://mirror.pacific.net.au gutsy/universe Packages03:03
Hobbsee  kdevelop | 4:3.4.1-0ubuntu2 | http://archive.ubuntu.com gutsy/universe Packages03:03
Hobbsee  kdevelop | 4:3.4.1-0ubuntu2 | http://archive.ubuntu.com gutsy/universe Sources03:03
Jucatokool :)03:04
Jucatothanks Hobbsee :)03:04
Hobbseeyep :)03:04
Hobbseeall of kde 3.5.7 is done - woo!03:04
=== Hobbsee still has an upload for kdepim, though
JucatoHobbsee: you are (one of) the best! :)03:05
=== Hobbsee is test building *first*
Hobbseei tend to test build half or so - what i'm confident with, i wont, and then find that they fail.  and of course, the ones that i test build usually pass.  it's unfair.03:06
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rbrunhuberIs it a bug that kdepim and kdevelop overwrite each others files?03:29
rbrunhuberThis one I mean: E: /var/cache/apt/archives/knode_4%3a3.5.7-1ubuntu2_i386.deb: trying to overwrite `/usr/share/services/kontact/knodeplugin.desktop', which is also in package kontact03:30
Hobbseerbrunhuber: yes, known03:30
Hobbseerbrunhuber: test building a fix at the moment03:30
Hobbseerbrunhuber: bug is filed03:30
rbrunhuberHobbsee: Cool03:31
rbrunhuberDoes anybody know when ipw2200 firmware is due for kernel 2.6.22?03:31
Hobbseeask in #ubuntu-kernel, on a weekday03:32
rbrunhuberis powertop planned to be packaged for ubuntu?03:34
Hobbsee  powertop |      1.2-1 | http://mirror.pacific.net.au gutsy/universe Packages03:35
Hobbsee  powertop |      1.2-1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com gutsy/universe Packages03:35
Hobbsee  powertop |      1.2-1 | http://mirror.pacific.net.au gutsy/universe Sources03:35
Hobbsee  powertop |      1.2-1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com gutsy/universe Sources03:35
Hobbseepackages.ubuntu.com will tell you that03:35
Hobbseerbrunhuber: fixed in gutsy03:48
ubotuKDE (http://kde.org) is the !desktop environment used natively in !Kubuntu. To install from Ubuntu:  sudo apt-get install kubuntu-desktop , or see http://help.ubuntu.com/community/InstallingKDE . Latest KDE version is 3.5.6 for Feisty and Edgy, and 3.5.5 for Dapper. See http://kubuntu.org for more information.03:49
Hobbseethat's out of date..03:49
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Jucato!no kde is <reply> KDE (http://kde.org) is the !desktop environment used natively in !Kubuntu. To install from Ubuntu:  sudo apt-get install kubuntu-desktop , or see http://help.ubuntu.com/community/InstallingKDE . Latest KDE version is 3.5.7 for Feisty, 3.5.6 for Edgy, and 3.5.5 for Dapper. See http://kubuntu.org for more information.03:53
HobbseeJucato: where's gutsy in there?03:54
Jucatowe usually don't put the KDE version for ubuntu+103:55
rbrunhuberHobbsee: What is fixed in gutsy?03:56
Hobbseerbrunhuber: kdepim breakage, with the file overwrite03:57
HobbseeJucato: true dat.03:57
rbrunhuberHobbsee: Mirror is not up to date then latest update did not bring anything new03:57
rbrunhuberSee you.03:58
Hobbseeit has to build and be published first, yes....03:58
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Hobbseemorning Riddell04:26
Riddellmhb: that looks fine, it's the hiding of the command that I was worried about04:27
Riddellhola Hobbsee04:27
Hobbseekdepim is fixed ;)04:27
Riddellin which way?04:32
Hobbseefile conflicts, and networkstatus-dev back04:32
JucatoRiddell: can't we have both? I mean the command and the custom message? (although it might make the dialog box a bit bigger)04:32
Hobbseekoffice be broken though.04:32
Hobbsee(damn, i didnt test build the rebuild-only)04:33
RiddellJucato: yes, that seems to be what mhb has done04:33
RiddellHobbsee: does knetworkmanager work in gutsy?  and networkstatus generally?04:34
=== Hobbsee wonders what on earth the change for the unmount dialog is, who added it, and if works for anyone else
JucatoRiddell: ah. nice :)04:34
RiddellHobbsee: fdoving did that04:34
HobbseeRiddell: knetworkmanager plays nice if it knows i have a wired connection as a backup.  it's got a sixth sense, i think.04:35
Hobbseeor at least my wifi card04:35
Hobbseeknetworkmanager is mostly playing fine, when aforementioned network card is not being a pain, yes.04:35
Hobbseeie, yes.   seems that the problems that i'm having with wifi are elsewhere.04:35
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HobbseeRiddell: i dont know what networkstatus does, apart from beign required by knm, so appears to be working too04:37
Hobbseeyay, i'm a dodgy proposed-core-dev for nto always test building, and not knowing everything.04:38
ryanakcaJucato: ping, about the kmilo patch04:39
Jucatoryanakca: pong04:39
Jucato(you should really be pinging mhb though... he just asked me to put up the agenda for him, since he already had one... and I pointed him to the patch)04:40
ryanakcaJucato: about the kmilo patch... hmmm. Couldn't that be a simple thing to set up?04:40
Hobbseehow's it sunday already?04:41
=== ryanakca wonders if he should make a couple test packages with each patch
ryanakcaHobbsee: dunno, Saturday here04:41
Jucatoryanakca: mhb has tested it. said it worked fine04:41
ryanakcaJucato: ah, so he already has the packages for it ready?04:42
Jucatothat I don't know :(04:42
mhbnot really04:42
Jucatooh there :)04:42
mhbryanakca: feel free to make the packages04:43
ryanakcamhb: okies04:43
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=== ryanakca will try, at least :) which patch should we use?
mhbryanakca: I like the "compact" style04:43
mhbbut that is what we should discuss :o)04:43
ryanakcawell, shouldn't take very long... I'll make a package for each, and then we can discuss which one is best liked, I guess?04:44
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mhbryanakca: yeah, but screenshots should be fine too, as long as the patches work04:44
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mhbHobbsee: what about the meeting?04:54
=== Hobbsee mumbles
mhbHobbsee: are we waiting for more topics? Or something else?04:54
Hobbseewe're waiting for me to throw my brain into gear, and actually know when i'll be around04:54
Hobbseewhich requires work to stop changing my roster.04:54
Hobbseei think it's concrete now04:54
Hobbseeso then we're just pending my brain, as i've got 2 meetings to set up04:55
Hobbseeand have to know when i can be alive for both of htem.04:55
Hobbsee+ get assignments done.04:55
Hobbseei hear 1200 UTC isnt such a bad time.04:56
Hobbseemhb: are you around then?04:56
HobbseeRiddell: ^ ?04:56
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mhbHobbsee: I have completed my final exams, so it's up to you to choose the time, I'll be there :o)04:57
Hobbseemy brain doesnt really work at 6/7 am, so it's pretyt pointless having meetings then.04:57
Hobbseeit's certainly not creativ04:58
=== Hobbsee wishes there was a 42nd hour in the day.
Hobbseethen it would be easy.05:00
=== mhb wonders what to do with bug 115470
ubotuLaunchpad bug 115470 in kubuntu-meta ""system", "settings" and "utilities" menus need refinement & other kmenu observations" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/11547005:00
Jucato2, 3, and 4 are quite invalid...05:05
ryanakcais this safe to ignore?05:07
ryanakcaW: kdeutils source: changelog-should-mention-nmu05:07
ryanakcaW: kdeutils source: source-nmu-has-incorrect-version-number 4:3.5.7-1ubuntu205:07
nixternalHobbsee: just set a time, it is understandable that everyone can't make it. you can also make a table where people can put their best times rated with a 1 or a 0, the column with the highest number wins05:07
Jucatowell, Settings is a K Menu-specific menu, like Recent Documents, that can only be enabled or disabled, not moved afaik05:07
JucatoTerminal emulators have always been considered as system tools in KDE (they changed that in GNOME I think)05:08
Hobbseenixternal: i cant really set a time and then find *i* cant make it05:08
nixternal12:00 UTC, is 7am here, that means I would have to set my alarm, and I don't do that :)05:08
Hobbseewhich is the current problem05:08
Hobbsee1300 UTC also works05:08
ryanakca7am I'm on my way to school here...05:08
Hobbsee1300 better?05:08
Hobbseeif it's your 8am?05:08
nixternalsee, just set the time, let everyone complain...there will be mroe meetings :)05:08
nixternalHobbsee: I don't have to be there, so don't set it around me05:09
nixternalI will set my alarm for a kubuntu meenting now :)05:09
ryanakcaat school... but, I'm not really bringing anything to the meeting, mhb can just give a link to the kmilo packages05:09
Hobbseenixternal: dont ask how many classes i made at uni this week...05:09
Hobbseevs how many i didnt...05:09
nixternaluh oh..gimme the numbers?05:09
nixternalI start back on tuesday ;(05:09
=== ryanakca gulps
Hobbseei would have made less than 25% this week, i think.05:10
nixternal10 hours in classes, programming classes...Java, C/C++, and ASP.NET/C#05:10
Hobbseeprobably about 10%, maybe?05:10
Hobbseeit's....not good.05:10
nixternalhehe, it gets better...so they say05:10
Hobbseeit had better - else i'll fail05:11
Hobbseewhich will make it very hard for me to go to another UDS.05:11
nixternalnah, you don't want that now05:11
=== ryanakca points to the lintian warnings for kmilo, safe to ignore or no. I'm guessing they are
Hobbseeryanakca: depends what they are.  probably05:11
ryanakcaHobbsee: what what are? I pasted them a couple of minutes ago, nmu stuff05:12
nixternalI still pulled 2 A's and 2 B's (90%+ = A, and 80%+ = B) last semester with barely cracking a book05:12
nixternalthis semester I feel will be a little different05:12
Hobbseeryanakca: ahh.  can be ignored05:12
Hobbseeit's second year, it's nto first05:12
ryanakcaokies :)05:12
Hobbseeso it's harder05:12
Hobbseei cant rubbish what i have no idea about05:12
ryanakcaHobbsee: what courses you taking again? C++ ?05:13
Hobbseeno c++05:13
Hobbseeoptoelectronics - so optoelectronics x2, maths, electronics, physics05:13
nixternalhehe, Hobbsee I know exactly what you mean about "I can't rubbish what I have no idea about"05:13
nixternalI got lucky as hell though my 2nd year with anthropology and did it :)05:13
Hobbseei can rubbish what i have *some* idea about jsut fine, though05:14
mhbJucato: about that bug: truth is, I can't reject it - I always end up thinking that those menus are bad indeed05:14
nixternalbut when it comes to the computer classes, ya, you definitely can't try and hide it05:14
Hobbseelike i did in elec last semester.  NFI how.05:14
Hobbseegot a credit for it05:14
nixternalelectronics is fun05:14
Hobbseeif you understand it05:14
Jucatomhb: maybe make them a wishlist. but 2, 3, and 4 is not something we can do something about05:14
nixternalHobbsee: I understand enough electronics to be dangerous05:15
Hobbseeoh dear05:15
nixternalI grew up around it, my dad is an electronics engineer05:15
ryanakcaHobbsee: cool05:15
nixternalplus they taught it to me in the military05:15
nixternaland no, they didn't teach me how to hook someone up to a car battery and torcher them, although it seems popular these days05:15
Jucatomhb: 2) the Settings menu only takes it's entries from KControl. 3) System Menu and Settings are KDE given names. they also correspond to the kicker applet names of the same function. 4) System Settings is our own app. maybe that we could change. but I doubt it05:16
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mhbJucato: System settings is pretty neat, better than kcontrol definitely (my 2 cents). However, having a menu called "System" and "System Settings" might be confusing.05:18
DaSkreechmhb: Bah!05:19
Jucatomhb: unfortunately, we can technically only change System Settings05:19
Jucatomhb: btw, in the K Menu on vanilla KDE, it's called "Control Center"05:20
Jucatokcontrol has just become the nickname, since it's the executable name, and shorter :)05:20
mhbJucato: that's kcontrol05:20
DaSkreechShow me Keyboard navigation or rescind!05:20
JucatoI know, I'm just saying the formal name is "Control Center" on the K Menu in vanilla KDE05:20
DaSkreechFinds it really annoying that hecan't browse the System settings by keyboard05:23
JucatoDaSkreech: wasn't fixed unfortunately for feisty. maybe in gusty05:24
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mhbJucato: how come we can't change the menus' names?05:24
DaSkreechWhich menu?05:24
Jucatomhb: not Settings or System Menu. unless you want to patch those05:24
Jucato"Settings" -> special kicker menu for KControl. "System Menu" -> special kicker menu for "places"05:25
Jucatothen you'd most probably have to patch the names of the corresponding kicker applets05:25
=== Hobbsee --> bed.
mhbJucato: no, I meant the kmenu ones05:25
Jucatonight Hobbsee05:26
Jucatomhb: didn't say you can't. I just specifically mentioned the special kicker menus05:26
mhbJucato: those are fine, at least for me05:26
mhbJucato: the one I dislike is the "System" kmenu item05:27
mhbJucato: because "System" doesn't say much to you05:27
JucatoI guess it's more by "tradition" (GNOME has it too...)05:27
mhbJucato: GNOME's System is basically System Settings05:28
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Jucatoer no05:28
JucatoApplications -> System05:28
Jucatonot the top level System05:29
Jucato(which is more confusing come to think of it)05:29
mhbJucato: now tell me it's not confusing :D05:29
Jucatomhb: but GNOME has 2 "System" menus. we only have one plain "System" menu05:30
mhbJucato: well, we have "System" and "System settings"05:30
Jucatoone is System Settings, one is System apps05:30
Jucatoalthough System Menu is the least logical name imho05:30
Jucatoor least relevant05:30
mhbJucato: it doesn't say "System apps"05:31
mhbJucato: it says just "System", which is kind of confusing05:31
Jucatoit's quite implied by the "All Applications" at the top05:31
DaSkreechcall it Configuration?05:31
mhbJucato: but still, what system tools out of that menu do you use?05:32
mhband how can one define a system app?05:32
mhbI mean - konsole is not an app you need root access for05:32
mhbOTOH, adept is05:32
=== DaSkreech forgets what is in his menu :( I just use katapult for everythign outside of logging out
JucatoKSysGuard, KInfoCenter, Konsole, Adept05:32
ryanakcaI'd call it System Utilities, or Administration05:32
JucatoAdministration is probably better. System Utilities will conflict with Utilities05:33
JucatoUtilities, being the KDE counterpart of Accessories05:33
ryanakcaI had my teacher try to add a new user in feisty, and his eyes went strait to System, without even seeing System Settings05:33
ryanakcaI had to point him to System Settings05:33
Jucato(which is why it would probably be better to change the latter's name :P)05:34
mhbJucato: for example, doesn't Ubuntu have synaptic in the System (main System) menu?05:34
Jucatomhb: and Add/Remove in the Applications menu05:34
ryanakcaAdd it to the meeting's agenda?05:34
=== Jucato doesn't know :)
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DaSkreechmhb: it does05:35
Jucatobased on my experience in #kubuntu, System Settings is the most confused name of all :)05:35
mhbJucato: really?05:35
Jucatospecially if they have the Settings menu enabled05:35
DaSkreechJucato: In mine it's adept :-(05:36
ryanakcaI would put Konsole under Utilities as well...05:36
mhbJucato: well I think it's confusing because there are other menus there implying "System"05:36
DaSkreechpeople keep seeing reference to adept and when the open install applications it doesn't follow the instructions they read online05:36
Jucatobut it's not the System's fault. it's SYstem Settings hehe05:36
mhbit's quite hard to define what belongs in system settings and what doesn't (when we skip the fact that some stuff is kcmshell-embedable and some isn't)05:37
ryanakcaAdd/Remove Programs can be confused with Adept as well. How do people know that they will probably want Adept, or vice versa05:37
=== ryanakca twiddles while kdeutils builds
Jucatomhb: it's simple. none of the kcontrol modules are ordinarily accessible except through system settings.05:38
ryanakcaA new user doesn't know what a package is, most likely, and so, will ignore an app with "Manage Packages" in it's menu name05:39
mhbJucato: but if you don't know what kcontrol module is05:39
mhbJucato: (pretend you forgot that)05:39
ryanakcaJucato: a new user has no clue what KControl is05:40
Jucatomhb: what's the point? the Settings menu isn't enabled by default.05:40
Jucatoryanakca: so they use system settings05:40
=== Jucato is now getting confused on what the *real* issue is...
=== ryanakca too
mhbJucato: you have a Boot Manager, a Wine Manager and a Package Manager - which one does belong in the "System" menu and which in the "System settings" application?05:40
Jucatoanyway, not my decision/point to make. better raise it up in the meeting05:40
ryanakcaOk, will add05:40
DaSkreechJucato: the real issue is the user being able to do things right the first time05:41
Jucatomhb: kcontrol modules belong in System Settings. since adept isn't, it belongs outside. but I can only speak for Kubuntu who's system settings is just a modified shell for kcontrol (nothing like yast or drakconf)05:42
=== Jucato chest is hurting...
ryanakcaJucato: mhb: feel free to add more confusing things to the Agenda05:46
=== ryanakca gives Jucato some warm tea
JucatoI just finished one :)05:46
ryanakcawell... have some more :P05:47
=== DaSkreech gives Jucato a daily exercise regiment
Jucatomhb, ryanakca: http://standards.freedesktop.org/menu-spec/latest/apa.html05:48
=== DaSkreech wonders how many non-gnome Bullet points that Ubuntu has are missing in Kubuntu
Jucatounless you guys want to go against kde and fd.o :)05:49
mhbJucato: I don't05:50
JucatoI guess that doc kinda clarifies the distinction between Settings and System05:50
Jucatoand that "System" is for "System applications"05:51
Jucatomaybe we could rename it as System Tools if you want :)05:51
DaSkreechLike adminsitration?05:51
mhbJucato: nah05:51
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Jucatoanyway, those are just the Categories, not the menu names. but I guess it's implied that the menu names should be slightly similar05:52
mhbJucato: I still think it's confusing. Not all standards are crystal clear. OpenXML anyone?05:54
DaSkreechHey anyone seen the Gnome menu on kde-apps ?05:54
JucatoOpenXML is a standard now? thought it wasn't approved yet05:54
Jucatoalthough I'm still not sure that it is confusing in the first place anyway... we need more opinions :)05:55
DaSkreechOr some one to read through the massive spec floated through ECMA05:55
mhbJucato: not an ISO standard yet,05:56
Jucatoer referring to the menu name. not to OXML :)05:56
DaSkreechof course you are :)05:56
mhbJucato: I think adept is way too buried05:57
=== Jucato personally doesn't like Add/Remove and prefers Adept to be in the top level with System Settings...
Jucatobtw, if you want buried, you should try mandriva :)05:58
Jucatomandriva free (not one)05:58
DaSkreechI don't mind Add/Remove I'd ust like it to work05:58
JucatoI've had problems with it before, packages not showing up, like kword. so I don't trust it that much05:59
mhbI'd like to see One Adept For All as well06:00
DaSkreech!info mixxx06:00
ubotumixxx: Digital Disc Jockey Interface. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.5.0svn~20070130dfsg-0ubuntu1 (feisty), package size 435 kB, installed size 1388 kB06:00
mhbsimple, fast, configurable06:00
DaSkreechI can never get that to turn up in add/remove06:00
=== ryanakca bbl
DaSkreechwhereas my friend FOUND it though synaptic add/remve and now doesn't trust Kubuntu06:00
=== DaSkreech puts in a vote ofr having a Gnome menu
mhbDaSkreech: eh?06:04
mhbDaSkreech: you mean a gnome-like menu in default applets?06:05
DaSkreechI mean an empty Menu that holds all Gnome apps06:05
DaSkreechSo if someone has Ubuntu-desktop and kubuntu-desktop It will still look neat06:05
mhbDaSkreech: there are several issues with that06:06
DaSkreechIt logically seperates them and allows the user to not have a messy menu06:06
mhbDaSkreech: like having two pop-ups on every CD insert, USB disk insert ...06:06
DaSkreechmhb: Lets hear them06:06
mhbDaSkreech: why what? That does happen on my Feisty box with ubuntu-desktop and kubuntu-desktop06:07
DaSkreechtwo different handlers?06:07
mhbDaSkreech: two different pop-ups, one GNOME and one KDE06:07
mhbno clue why06:07
DaSkreechso why do you think that has something to do wih the menu?06:10
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mhbDaSkreech: I didn't say that06:10
mhbDaSkreech: it's just another bug that's related to having both those -desktops installed06:11
DaSkreechwell I still propose having a Gnome menu06:11
=== nixternal proposes the Debian menu then :)
DaSkreechwe have a debian menu06:16
nixternalI already have it installed :)06:16
nixternalone of the first things I install...it helps fill up Katapult :)06:17
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DaSkreechyeah I just use it to open kcontrol from katapult06:17
=== DaSkreech heads to the Doctor
Riddellkcontrol isn't in katapult06:22
nixternalRiddell: if you install Debian menu it will be06:22
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fdovingRiddell: did hobbsee experience problem with unmounting?06:40
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Riddellfdoving: not sure, she didn't say06:44
fdovingok, i didn't see her saying anything about it either..  but ".. and if it works for anyone else"  makes it sound like something is wrong.06:47
fdovingshe might not have the extra package needed. kio-umountwrapper that is.06:48
fdovingit's not in the archives yet.06:48
fdovingthe changes to kdebase might look strange if she doesn't have that.06:49
mhbhow does the desktop manager (kdm) handle the cursor?06:56
mhbI mean - in gdm, you get the ubuntu (white) cursor in gdm, but in kdm you get the black cursor before you log in06:57
fdovingyou can control that via the XCURSOR_THEME environment variable iirc.07:00
fdovingand some magic symlinking07:00
mhbthanks fdoving07:01
fdovingthere is actually an /etc/alternatives/x-cursor-theme too.07:01
fdovingso update-alternatives --config x-cursor-theme07:02
mhbfdoving: hmm, although I have that set up, kdm displays the black cursor first07:02
mhbfdoving: does your kdm work fine?07:03
mhbfdoving: it may be a bug07:03
fdovingwork fine as in?07:03
fdovingit works, i don't remember what cursor it uses.07:03
mhbfdoving: the "Kubuntu" cursor from the beginning07:03
fdovingi much prefer the default black xorg cursor.07:03
fdovingnot sure, my defaults are set to the black core.theme07:03
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marseillaiRiddell: did you have time to take a look at kopete ?07:21
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jjessed'oh afternoon07:39
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jdonganyone doing KTorrent 2.2-beta packages yet?08:48
jdongI am thinking about doing some right now...08:48
jdongmeh I'll first get the SRU updated, then do that08:49
jdongcheers :)08:49
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paranjdong: that would be nice. then I can stop using my own packages with 2.1.4 + some svn patches :)09:01
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jdongparan: building right now :)09:36
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mschiffHey all09:53
mschiffwhile compiling kdebase I get this error: http://phpfi.com/23717009:53
mschiffAny hints somebody?09:53
mschiff(using 3.5.7 package source)09:54
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mschiffok, how can I recompile the kdebase 3.5.7 package?10:07
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=== \sh_away is now known as \sh
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marseillai_the ast MAJ makes me loose my kwallet .... :(10:12
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ryanakcamhb: jucato: ping. KMilo built fine for gutsy, lintian spit out a couple warnings that I have no clue about thogh10:38
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LureRiddell, imbrandon: if you can sponsor upload of arts: http://muse.19inch.net/~lure/gutsy/arts.debdiff10:39
Lurethis fixes wakeups/power usage - see http://vir.homelinux.org/blog/index.php?url=archives/41-PowerTOP-and-aRts.html10:40
\shLure, I could do it as well10:41
Lure\sh: right, forgot that you are also kde-friendly core-dev ;-)10:41
Lure\sh: it works here without side-effects and there are several positive reports in blog comments10:42
\shlure I'll check :)10:42
Lure\sh: also listed under known issues: http://www.linuxpowertop.org/known.php10:42
Lure\sh: thanks10:42
\shbut why do we need arts anyways? I thought we wanted to get rid of it...10:42
=== Lure will now look into kopete source - it is doing 60 wakeups/sec when connected to MSN
Lure\sh: knotify uses it (it looks like) :-(10:43
\shyeah, kopete is evil...same applies to gaim sorry pidgin10:44
\shjust taking hours to update my pbuilder on this t43...umts sucks10:52
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Lure_bluetooth sucks...10:56
Lure_it generates 100 interrupts/sec when turned on (but not connected)10:57
ryanakcaShould I add this to the agenda? http://www.kde-apps.org/content/show.php/K+Menu+Gnome+%28source%29?content=31025 DaSkreech was talking about Ubuntu-Desktop apps cluttering up his kmenu earlier, and suggested having it installed by default10:57
ryanakcaLure_: ouch11:00
=== Riddell uploads lure's patch
Lure_Riddell: thanks11:02
Lure_\sh: ^^11:02
\shRiddell, argl...11:04
\shjust because i'm on umts ;)11:04
\shpbuilder-guts-i386 update > 30mins11:04
Lure_\sh: ;-)11:04
=== Lure_ just upgraded from 1/256 to 4/512 and you can feel it ;-)
Riddell\sh: doesn't that cost a fortune?11:05
=== Lure_ hopes \sh has flat-rate
=== Lure_ is now known as Lure
\shLure, it's company card with 5 GB traffic on it...but it's a lowspeed card..(384kBit/s)11:06
Riddellryanakca: can't say I'm a fan of separating apps into sub-menus11:07
\shRiddell, hehe..but thanks for uploading :)11:07
\shRiddell, btw...will you come to berlin for a day or two?11:07
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ryanakcaRiddell: ah, okies.11:10
_StefanS_Riddell: I'm planning to have that kdesu with fade done for gutsy, if its still relevant ofcourse (?)11:11
\shdid anybody tested OTPs with kdm? (apt-get install opie-client opie-server)?11:11
ryanakcaRiddell: and I don't suppose there could be a way to make it an option? (give users the choice of having all their gnome apps in a gnome submenu in KMenu, or having them dispersed and mingling with the KDE apps in the respective kmenu submenus)11:12
=== \sh would like to remove all this fading effects ... just because they are slow on machines with not so good graphic cards
fdovingon gnome the fade effects are config keys in gconf.11:12
fdovingwe should make them configurable too.11:13
\shfdoving, yeah, but having it in somewhere where you can switch it off easily without reading the whole gconf system ;)11:13
fdoving\sh: i grep irclogs when i need it. :)11:14
\shfdoving, cool, that's a nice faq ;) "how do I switch of fading in gnome?" "grep "switch of fading in gnome" ~/irclogs/#ubuntu ,-)11:15
fdoving'gconf-editor /apps/metacity/general' reduced_resources or something.11:15
fdovingnot up2date on gnome things.11:15
\shfdoving, hmm...MS is greeting...11:16
_StefanS_\sh: I see your point about those fades, but I was planning to make them configurable through system-settings11:17
_StefanS_\sh: just didn't make it for feisty11:18
fdovingmake them configurable via some magic keys in some magic config file.11:18
fdovingthen make a kcm module later.11:18
_StefanS_fdoving: already configurable11:18
_StefanS_fdoving: using settings in ksmserverrc11:19
fdoving_StefanS_: oh. nice.11:19
_StefanS_fdoving: although the kdesu thingy needs some more work11:20
_StefanS_fdoving: trouble is that qt3 is not really that good with large fullscreen bitmaps, so its hard to get good speed11:20
fdovingback to the config thing.11:21
_StefanS_uhm maybe it just messed up whatever you two was talking about :)11:21
fdovingif it's already configurable, making a online .sh script to toggle it's state would be easy with 'kwriteconfig'11:21
fdoving_StefanS_: no, not at all :)11:21
_StefanS_oh ok :)11:22
fdoving_StefanS_: i was saying that to you.. kwriteconfig is nice for managing those rcfiles from the commandline.11:22
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_StefanS_fdoving: oh ok - I wasn't aware of that11:22
fdovingincluding scripts like "kdesu-disable-fade.sh" and "kdm-disable-fade.sh" and their enable versions would be very easy.11:23
fdovingit's not like something a user will want to change often.11:24
_StefanS_fdoving: true11:24
fdoving(if ever at all)11:24
_StefanS_fdoving: well, its something we could always refine - I'll try first to get good speed on that fullscreen fade (and the rest ofcourse) before we finalize it11:24
fdovingyep, good luck :)11:25
_StefanS_fdoving: btw, the cdbs-edit-patch thingy; you can edit an existing patch aswell I figure, by just naming it exactly (?)11:26
fdoving_StefanS_: yes. you can.11:27
_StefanS_fdoving: and good work on that audiocd eject ;)11:27
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_StefanS_fdoving: ok, that was really valuable, because I always fight with the apply-patches, and always end up doing a regular diff11:27
fdoving_StefanS_: i have http://frode.kde.no/misc/cdbs-edit-diff for .diff files.11:28
fdovingnot 100% sure if it's needed anymore or not, cdbs-edit-patch might support .diffs now,  it works for me though.11:28
_StefanS_fdoving: so say you have finished whatever changes you have to an existing patch; you would just distribute that one I guess, and not create a debdiff (?)11:29
_StefanS_hmm I guess you would need debdiff anyways11:30
fdovingwell.. if you want your name in the changelog-entry for the package.. you would make a debdiff.11:30
fdovingwith that changelog entry.11:30
_StefanS_dch -i11:30
_StefanS_I get it, but other than that its not nessecary then ?11:31
fdovingif not, the debian/patches/ patch contains all the changes you did niside the shell.. so yeah.. that would be enought.11:31
_StefanS_fdoving: gotcha11:31
_StefanS_fdoving: I commited that patch for knetworkmanager, so I'm really curious if they11:32
_StefanS_fdoving: 're going to accept it11:32
ryanakcaany gutsy people willing to test the compact kmilo patch? http://packages.ryanak.ca/pool/ryan-gutsy/kde/kmilo_3.5.7-1ubuntu2_i386.deb11:34
fdovingstill on feisty and kde 3.5.6...11:36
_StefanS_ryanakca: I can test it, what should I try?11:37
ryanakca_StefanS_: it should look slightly different. I haven't managed to test it, http://www.kde-apps.org/content/show.php/KMilo+-+Customizable+DefaultSkin?content=5628711:40
ryanakcahttp://downloads.guillermoamaral.com/linux/kde/kmilo/kmilodrc ... is the config file11:40
_StefanS_ryanakca: ah thats nice11:40
_StefanS_ryanakca: Im just testing it on a vm11:40
ryanakca_StefanS_: I'll build myself a feisty one and test it here11:41
_StefanS_ryanakca: seems like my vm dies11:43
fdovingryanakca: which of the patches did you apply?11:45
fdovingstandard or compact?11:45
ryanakcafdoving: compact11:47
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ryanakcafor running gutsy in vmware, I should get vmware workstation?11:50
\shryanakca, vmware-server is enough11:51
_StefanS_seems like the last gutsy kernel broke my vm ..11:52
\shuse feisty and install vmware server, then install feisty in a vm and upgrade to gutsy11:52
_StefanS_oh well it works now11:53
ryanakca\sh: ok11:53
ryanakca\sh: and then vmware-server-console to view?11:53
\shryanakca, the standard tools .. so vmware server console11:54
_StefanS_ryanakca: you could just download the trial of vmware-workstation also, might be faster11:54
ryanakca\sh: okies.11:54
_StefanS_ryanakca: to setup i mean11:54
ryanakca_StefanS_: ah11:54
_StefanS_I just bought the latest 6.0, it really kicks some serious butt..11:55
fdovingryanakca: you can also consider virtualbox.org11:56
ryanakcafdoving: any idea which is faster/less ressource hogging? (virtualbox or vmware)11:58
_StefanS_fdoving: is it good ?11:58
_StefanS_ryanakca: might be just about the same I think11:58
fdovingryanakca: there was some blogging about virtualbox beeing better.. i haven't used any of them yet.11:58
_StefanS_fdoving: can you dig up that blog entry?11:59
_StefanS_fdoving: would like to read the comparisons11:59
ryanakcaI have to install vmware-server-console anywais...11:59
_StefanS_ryanakca: I got the package and free key somewhere if its faster for you12:00
ryanakca_StefanS_: for? virtalbox? vmware-server-console is free, isn't it? or are you talking about the vmware-workstation12:02
_StefanS_ryanakca: vmware server and the console for it12:02
_StefanS_ryanakca: vmware server needs a serial even though its free12:02
ryanakca_StefanS_: could you send me the package & key for the console?12:06
ryanakcaI don't need the server one now, since I'm going to try out virtualbox first...12:07
_StefanS_ryanakca: well I guess you mean both vmware server + console + key, right?12:07
ryanakca_StefanS_: sure, please12:09
_StefanS_ryanakca: look at the pm12:12

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