[12:21] <DaSkreech> ok
[12:32] <fdoving> nite
[12:32] <DaSkreech> night
[12:38] <DaSkreech> mhb, ryanakca: ping anyone use KDE4?
[12:39] <ryanakca> DaSkreech: not actively
[12:39] <ryanakca> DaSkreech: why? I have it installed...
[12:40] <DaSkreech> They redid the menu to F.d.o
[12:40] <DaSkreech> I'm rading annma's blog
[12:40] <DaSkreech> reading
[12:40] <ryanakca> F.d.o? link?
[12:41] <DaSkreech> http://annma.blogspot.com/2007/05/fantastic-place.html
[12:43] <ryanakca> cool
[12:44] <DaSkreech> Yeah
[12:45] <DaSkreech> Don't think it helps with the System Settings argument now that I think about it though :-)
[12:54] <DaSkreech> when is the next kubuntu-meeting ?
[12:55] <giangy> DaSkreech: 31/05
[12:55] <DaSkreech> ok
[12:55] <giangy> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings
[12:56] <giangy> (30th 21:00 UTC..)
[12:56] <DaSkreech> Oh that's wikied :0
[12:58] <marseillai_> if i've well understad it will have to be change
[12:59] <marseillai_> xubuntu guy are allready in u-meeting at this time
[01:01] <marseillai_> fdoving: still there ?
[01:08] <marseillai_> good night
[01:09] <DaSkreech> Night
[01:30] <nixternal> hey, you guys see the BasKet dev quit? no more development work w/o any new devs
[01:30] <DaSkreech> nixternal: what?
[01:30] <nixternal> kde-apps
[01:31] <nixternal> the latest basket update has a changelog, read it
[01:31] <nixternal> http://basket.kde.org/news.php
[01:31] <nixternal> there you go
[01:33] <nixternal> lol
[01:37] <ryanakca> eeegad!
[01:38] <DaSkreech> that  sucketh
[01:38] <ryanakca> nixternal: well, you're relearning C++, and you have a knowledge of Qt, don't you?
[01:39] <nixternal> ryanakca: I have no clue what you are talking about
[01:39] <ryanakca> hehehehe
[01:39] <nixternal> haha
[01:50] <DaSkreech> nixternal: who does basket?
[01:50] <nixternal> you do now!
[01:50] <nixternal> I sent them an email on your behalf
[01:50] <nixternal> I really don't know who does it
[02:12] <n8k99> DaSkreech: do you mean upstream or in Kubunt?
[02:15] <DaSkreech> upstream
[02:16] <n8k99> help> about basket
[02:17] <DaSkreech> in vista
[02:17] <n8k99> ah ha!
[02:17] <n8k99> hang on
[02:18] <ace_>  <ace_> Multihead question...
[02:18] <ace_> [20:17]  <ace_> I was used in kubuntu dapper. when I click on an application to open it, and move the mouse to a certain screen
[02:18] <ace_> [20:17]  <ace_> (I have 3)
[02:18] <ace_> [20:17]  <ace_> that the application would open in that screen, it seems with Feisty, that feature is lost.
[02:18] <ace_> [20:17]  <ace_> Any comments ?
[02:19] <n8k99> DaSkreech: Sebastien Laout is the author
[02:19] <n8k99> slaout@linux62.org
[02:22] <DaSkreech> thanks
[02:23] <n8k99> your welcome
[02:30] <DaSkreech> your'e
[02:30] <DaSkreech> :-)
[03:08] <ace_> my question is already answered on #kde
[03:09] <ace_> thanx, see ya later!
[03:09] <DaSkreech> bye
[03:09] <DaSkreech> What was it?
[03:31] <Hobbsee> morning all!
[03:32] <jjesse> evening Hobbsee
[03:32] <Jucato> moin Hobbsee!!!
[03:32] <Hobbsee> :)
[03:37] <DaSkreech> hi Hobbsee
[03:37] <Hobbsee> heya
[03:37] <Hobbsee> aww, basket dev is retiring
[03:37] <DaSkreech> Hi Jucato
[03:37] <n8k99> its morning over there already?!?
[03:37] <Jucato> ey hi DaSkreech
[03:37] <Jucato> Hobbsee: wha? and they just released 1.0.2 :(
[03:37] <jjesse> @time sydney
[03:37] <ubotu> Current time in Australia/Sydney: May 28 2007, 11:37:59 - Next meeting: Kernel Team in 1 day
[03:38] <DaSkreech> Jucato: yeah
[03:38] <DaSkreech> httphttp://basket.kde.org/news.php
[03:38] <DaSkreech> http://basket.kde.org/news.php
[03:38] <Jucato> still no news from Mez?
[03:38] <DaSkreech> Nope
[03:39] <DaSkreech> I'm pondering mailing him
[03:39] <Jucato> eeek... poor basket :(
[03:39] <DaSkreech> he doesn't normally vanish for over a week
[03:39] <Hobbsee> Jucato: basket rss feed
[03:40] <Jucato> just when I was getting curious about the results of the basket usability studies :(
[03:40] <DaSkreech> #kde was thinking that maybe it can be redone as a plasmoid
[03:40] <DaSkreech> #plasma was thinking more of turning it to a dataengine
[03:41] <DaSkreech> Jucato: Well they are there
[03:41] <Hobbsee> sounds interesting
[03:41] <DaSkreech> He's setting up a grea tstage for the work to continue
[03:41] <Jucato> basket? isn't it a bit too big to be a plasmoid/dataengine? hm...
[03:42] <Jucato> oh well... I wish them the best... it's the only thing I can do right now :)
[03:42] <jjesse>  bummer i thought basket was great, but havne't used too much of it in a long time
[03:42] <Jucato> it's becoming one of the KDE killer apps I think... but still missing some features for me personally, and a bit "big". but it's cool :)
[03:43] <DaSkreech> Jucato: both were thinking of refactoring
[03:43] <DaSkreech> Jucato: We should have a list of KDE killer apps :0
[03:44] <jjesse> katapult
[03:44] <DaSkreech>  which remonds me
[03:44] <Jucato> yeah!! :)
[03:44] <DaSkreech>  how long has qtparted been dead?
[03:44] <Jucato> katapult is one of my killer apps :)
[03:44] <jjesse> by far my best used and most missed app back when iu'm in windows
[03:44] <RadiantFire> basket is great now that it can save/backup
[03:45] <Jucato> jjesse: might want to take a look at Launchy
[03:45] <DaSkreech> RadiantFire: well danny is going to mention it in the commit digest tomorrow
[03:46] <DaSkreech> I'm thinking about making a section on the wiki to help organize it
[03:46] <Jucato> jjesse: http://www.launchy.net/
[03:46] <DaSkreech>  So we can put all our eggs in it
[03:46] <DaSkreech> ...
[03:46] <DaSkreech> I apologize :-(
[03:46] <jjesse> Jucato: thanks i will
[03:46] <Jucato> in someways, it's a bit better than Katapult :P
[03:49] <Jucato> woot they're planning note connectors for basket, ala kdissert!! I've been wanting this :(
[03:50] <DaSkreech> can't be
[03:50] <jjesse> can they make it a replace of one note?
[03:50] <Jucato> can't be what?
[03:50] <Jucato> jjesse: maybe even better. maybe...
[03:51] <DaSkreech> Better
[03:51] <DaSkreech> katapult is open source
[03:51] <Jucato> DaSkreech: read the link. Launchy is too
[03:51] <Jucato> except that it's only on Windows
[03:51] <DaSkreech> How did I miss that? :-)
[03:52] <Jucato> katapult zealotry :P
[03:52] <Jucato> Mez knows about Launchy as well.  one of the apps he took a look at
[03:53] <Jucato> DaSkreech: I can tell you one thing that makes Launchy better than Katapult. Like Quicksilver, it displays multiple hits
[03:53] <DaSkreech> Well Yeah Katapult is a clone :)
[03:53] <jjesse> i just wish basket could replace one note
[03:54] <jjesse> that product is sweeeeeeet
[03:54] <DaSkreech> I'm torn though
[03:54] <DaSkreech> Course this is a convo for #katapult
[03:54] <Jucato> DaSkreech: it's a clone-in-progress
[03:54] <DaSkreech> What does one note do?
[03:54] <jjesse> in one note i can create tasks, appointments, etc and link right to outlook along w/ creating notebooks to better organize my thoughts
[03:55] <jjesse> also i can use handwriting when i'm on a tablet for one note
[03:55] <Jucato> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OneNote
[03:55] <jjesse> and the desktop search can search both handwritten and text
[03:55] <Jucato> basket is mentioned as an alternative :)
[03:55] <n8k99> but i want my handwriting!!1one
[03:55] <Jucato> oh btw, compared to OneNote, I don't think Basket is quite good at handling loooong text
[03:56] <Jucato> there's a noticeable delay/lag when typing in long text
[03:56] <jjesse> as an alternative butg i could never get it to work well enough to replace one note
[04:02] <DaSkreech> jjesse: well making basket a dataengine for plasma might help that
[04:03] <nixternal> jjesse: you see ryanakca's point on switching to bzr?
[04:03] <nixternal> I would like to separate the projects truthfully
[04:03] <jjesse> nixternal: who wouldn't
[04:03] <jjesse> whhy do you think i seperated adept docs
[04:03] <DaSkreech> how confused?
[04:04] <jjesse> DaSkreech: i guess  i don't quite understand the terms plasma and dataengine and how it would make things better
[04:04] <Jucato> dataengine = a backend that can be used as a source for plasmoids
[04:04] <Jucato> slightly analogous to meters in superkaramba I guess
[04:05] <ryanakca> nixternal: ping me when you get to look at that KMail howto...
[04:06] <nixternal> roger
[04:06] <Hobbsee> yay, kmail
[04:07] <ryanakca> lol
[04:07] <ryanakca> Hobbsee: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/KMailGPGAgent ... I just have to fix the second script
[04:08] <ryanakca> it isn't displaying properly
[04:08] <ryanakca> :P
[04:08] <Jucato> smart :)
[04:11] <DaSkreech> jjesse: Yeah Plasma is a Pillar of KDE4 :)
[04:11] <DaSkreech> it runs on dataengines
[04:11] <jjesse> oh yeah
[04:13] <Hobbsee> wow, pinentry is cool!
[04:13] <Hobbsee> ryanakca: btw, it's gnupg-agent
[04:25] <Jucato> hm.. where does ubotu get it's package info factoid? just want to correct one (QT instead of Qt :P)
[04:26] <Hobbsee> packages.ubuntu.com i think
[04:27] <Jucato> ah ok.. hehe I'm a bit picky :P
[04:27] <Jucato> http://packages.ubuntu.com/feisty/x11/qtparted :D
[04:27] <DaSkreech> Probably packages.ubuntu.com
[04:28] <crimsun> which in turn is dictated by the description(s) in each source package's debian/control
[04:28] <crimsun> that's ultimately where the fix should be made
[04:32] <Jucato> ah
[04:32] <Jucato> oh well, just a minor typo I noticed. no big deal. :)
[04:32] <DaSkreech> Jucato: ha ha derefrencing anyone?
[04:33] <Jucato> trying to dereference my brain... *brain seems to yield NULL :/
[04:35] <DaSkreech> On deref too many
[04:35] <DaSkreech> Ctrl=Z Ctrl+Z!!
[04:36] <Jucato> put it into the background? O.o
[04:37] <DaSkreech> Ha ha :) GUI vs CLI round 45 Fight!
[05:50] <RadiantFire> anybody out there?
[05:50] <nixternal> nope
[05:50] <RadiantFire> that was miraculously unhelpful
[05:51] <nixternal> lol
[05:51] <RadiantFire> because now I know that noone is out there
[05:51] <nixternal> hahahaha
[05:51] <crimsun> ask a miraculously unhelpful question, get a miraculously unhelpful answer.
[05:51] <nixternal> crimsun: but if you ask me any type of question, more than likely you will get that miraculously unhelpful answer ;p
[05:52] <Jucato> and start a miraculously unhelpful conversation :)
[05:52] <RadiantFire> anyway, i got bored and decided I would play with kdebase, and I managed to do something that might be useful with the kdesu dialog, I took a screenshot, its at http://home.comcast.net/~dzeigler7/kdesu_modification.png
[05:52] <RadiantFire> i was wondering if this would be considered worthwhile, and if so, who should I contact?
[05:52] <Jucato> hm.. mhb has done something similar, but without removing the "Command" field which Riddell would like to keep
[05:52] <nixternal> looks good
[05:54] <Jucato> RadiantFire: from mhb http://img503.imageshack.us/my.php?image=thenewupdaterjo1.png
[05:55] <Jucato> RadiantFire: you should probably contact mhb since he's interested in the same thing.
[05:55] <Jucato> just my guess :)
[05:56] <RadiantFire> that would make sens
[05:57] <Hobbsee> wow, taht's nice!
[05:59] <RadiantFire> his seems shineyer
[05:59] <RadiantFire> I shall make contact with him when he returns
[05:59] <DaSkreech> Jucato: does the command field have parameters on it?
[05:59] <Jucato> DaSkreech: depends on the app being launched I guess
[06:00] <DaSkreech> yeah
[06:00] <DaSkreech>  well I'm off to bed
[06:00] <n8k99> purdy
[06:02] <DaSkreech> YOU WERE GOIng off to lu.....
[06:02] <RadiantFire> that would be somewhat heavy
[06:02] <Jucato> adrenaline :)
[06:02] <DaSkreech> *distant splosh sound*
[06:02] <Jucato> ok really gone :)
[06:03] <RadiantFire> i hate jetlag
[06:47] <giangy> 'morning
[06:49] <RadiantFire> good morning
[08:53] <_marseillais> hi
[08:54] <Hobbsee> heya
[08:55] <_marseillais> morning Hobbsee
[08:55] <_marseillais> it's allready afternoon for you no ?
[08:55] <Hobbsee> almost 5pm
[08:55] <Hobbsee> which means i need to be at work soon
[08:56] <Hobbsee> Jucato: it's a place where i tell people to get off the phone to their friends, etc.
[08:56] <Jucato> hehe bossy Hobbsee :)
[08:56] <Jucato> oooh they rhyme!!
[08:56] <Hobbsee> and explain to them what "incompetence" means
[08:57] <Hobbsee> kinda.  but if you're being paid to do a task, then that means that you should...y'know...actually...do it?
[08:57] <Jucato> exactly!
[08:57] <Hobbsee> not be on the phone to your friends, etc
[08:58] <Hobbsee> and be responsible - if you eat some crappy highly-processed food, put it in the horrible microwave, it's probably going to give you a stomach ache, yes.
[08:58] <_marseillais> is not payed and he has to work more that anyone in this desk
[08:58] <Jucato> lol
[08:58] <Jucato> _marseillais: ah that's even worse than not working at all :/
[08:58] <Hobbsee> therefore, i wont be terribly sympathetic when you complain, dont wish to do you work, and want to go home
[08:58] <Hobbsee> yeah :(  ugh
[08:58] <_marseillais> and i can't say them what is incompetence
[08:59] <Hobbsee> i probably shouldnt
[08:59] <Hobbsee> but you have to say *something* when they do something really really stupid.
[08:59] <_marseillais> Hobbsee, i've tried and give up after two months
[08:59] <Hobbsee> ahhh
[09:00] <Hobbsee> i suspect it's the boss' right.
[09:00] <_marseillais> nows i do my work, nothing more, and apply to job offer
[09:00] <_marseillais> looks for a job
[09:00] <Hobbsee> not that i can tell my boss that he's throwing a tantrum like a 3 year old, or something.
[09:00] <Hobbsee> heh, yep
[09:02] <Hobbsee> meh.  jobs
[09:02] <Hobbsee> just due to the course load
[09:02] <Hobbsee> whereas i can do kubuntu stuff at any time - the odd hours are better
[10:18] <jonasp> Hey, when doing a kernel update wouldn't it be usefull for a normal user to get a message telling him that the update will not be finished until he reboots his computer?
[11:43] <Riddell> nixternal: no FDL for kubuntu docs now?
[11:53] <fdoving> jonasp: yes, ubuntu does that. it is usefull, then also have an icon sitting in the systray reminding the user.
[11:54] <Riddell> jonasp: it's part of this spec https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuGutsyAdept
[11:54] <Riddell> "Implement the upgrade hooks described in [WWW]  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/InteractiveUpgradeHooks in adept_notifier."
[11:54] <jonasp> fdoving, Riddell: okay, that's nice.
[11:55] <Riddell> jonasp: volunteers to implement it welcome :)
[12:03] <_marseillais> boh!
[12:04] <_marseillais> why creating my homepage on wiki.kubuntu.org send an email to several people?
[12:05] <gnomefreak> dont kernel updates do that already?
[12:07] <fdoving> _marseillais: they subscribe to all changes to the wiki.
[12:07] <fdoving> gnomefreak: only in gnome.
[12:07] <gnomefreak> ah
[12:08] <gnomefreak> i thought there was a restart notifier in the kicker for some reason
[12:08] <fdoving> might be, but it's the gnome-one.
[12:08] <gnomefreak> i see
[12:09] <jonasp> When are the hooks created? During the upgrade process of a certain package?
[12:10] <fdoving> yes.
[12:11] <fdoving> that's how i understand https://wiki.ubuntu.com/InteractiveUpgradeHooks
[12:12] <jonasp> so the hook files are created on kubuntu, too?
[12:12] <fdoving> yes, should be.
[12:13] <fdoving> not sure what checks are used before creating them.. but yeah.
[12:13] <jonasp> okay so the directory "/var/lib/update-notifier/user.d/" would be the one to use for even for kubuntu
[12:14] <jonasp> -for
[12:15] <fdoving> it would be wise to use the same directories and hooks, that way we don't need all maintainers to add support for our way of doing this.
[12:17] <fdoving> which reminds me, we should somehow make our /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/ configs not override the ubuntu ones, rather change them. diverting the ubuntu files out of the way with our update-notifier package.
[12:23] <jonasp> Okay, looks like i.e. utf8-migration-tool creates a hook-file in "/var/lib/update-notifier/user.d/". But I don't get how kernel updates do that.
[12:24] <Riddell> in their postinst script?
[12:33] <jonasp> I'm not that familiar with packages and their installation. Could you point to some information I could read?
[12:33] <fdoving> jonasp: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-maintainerscripts.html
[12:49] <kristina> hi, where do I find the gpg key for the kde4packages?
[12:51] <Riddell> kristina: if I signed them it'll be from the same place as my key for kde 3 packages http://kubuntu.org/announcements/kde-357.php
[12:54] <kristina> Riddel: got it, tnx
[01:02] <marseillai> jonasp: https://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/ is a good start
[01:28] <marseillai> Riddell: thanks for your revu and sorry for missing the patch name in changelog
[01:28] <Riddell> it's just a personal preference of mine
[01:30] <marseillai> and i agree with it
[01:30] <marseillai> just i forgot
[01:30] <marseillai> :$
[01:30] <marseillai> Riddell: anyway thanks :)
[01:30] <marseillai> and since two days i use it it's really a nice feature
[02:45] <Hobbsee> hi all
[02:45] <\sh> hey Hobbsee
[02:45] <Hobbsee> :)
[02:49] <RadiantFire> hmmm
[03:04] <Hobbsee> !logs
[03:04] <ubotu> Channel logs can be found at http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs
[03:18] <_marseillais> Hobbsee, you don't know what to do? you are in an annoying moment ?
[03:18] <_marseillais> :p
[03:18] <Hobbsee> _marseillais: sorry?
[03:19] <_marseillais> Hobbsee, no just to see if you have time and if you are looking for something to revu
[03:19] <_marseillais> :)
[03:19] <_marseillais> allready one advocate
[03:19] <_marseillais> in case of : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5305
[03:24] <Hobbsee> Jucato: i'm perfectly calm
[03:24] <Jucato> ok, that's good :)
[03:26] <RadiantFire> heh
[03:43] <Jucato> wb Hobbsee_
[03:44] <Hobbsee> ty
[03:45] <Hobbsee> stupid ISP
[03:45] <RadiantFire> :-(
[03:46] <RadiantFire> that happens to me too alot
[03:48] <Jucato> there was a netsplit too... :/
[03:48] <RadiantFire> lovely
[03:59] <Jucato> see you on thursday/friday :)
[04:01] <RadiantFire> Jucato: still there?
[04:01] <Jucato> hm?
[04:01] <RadiantFire> just wondering if you happened to know mhb's e-mail address. it would seem better than idling on the off chance he comes back
[04:03] <Hobbsee> RadiantFire: launchpad will
[04:04] <marseillai> Jucato, it's not a muto apply isn't it ???
[04:04] <marseillai> just kubuntu-member
[04:05] <RadiantFire> launchpad was miraculously unhelpful
[04:09] <marseillai> apacheLAGger, there ?
[04:09] <manchicken> Finally, some hacking time.
[04:11] <Hobbsee> RadiantFire: martin.bohm@kubuntu.org
[04:11] <Hobbsee> RadiantFire: https://launchpad.net/~martin.bohm
[04:11] <Hobbsee> RadiantFire: search was unhelpful, yes.
[04:11] <RadiantFire> i guess I searched for the wrong thing
[04:12] <manchicken> Looks like there's a fat kernel update today.
[04:12] <Hobbsee> RadiantFire: i looked up kubuntu-members and went thru there :)
[04:13] <RadiantFire> oh
[04:15] <RadiantFire> thank you Hobbsee
[04:15] <Hobbsee> no problem
[04:21] <apacheLAGger> marseillai: ahoy!
[04:21] <marseillai> yop apacheLAGger
[04:22] <marseillai> yesterday i read your blog
[04:22] <marseillai> and saw you are working on maxemumtvguide
[04:22] <marseillai> apacheLAGger, but it's there http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5305
[04:22] <apacheLAGger> marseillai: yeah, just noticed it today
[04:23] <marseillai> now i just need one more advocate
[04:26] <apacheLAGger> ok
[04:26] <apacheLAGger> marseillai: control file description: QT is written Qt ... QT = QuickTime
[04:26] <apacheLAGger> plus
[04:26] <apacheLAGger> there is a library issue
[04:26] <apacheLAGger> which is why I didn't upload mtvg yet
[04:27] <marseillai> the librarie is lintian issue ?
[04:27] <apacheLAGger> by default it installs into /usr/lib, while it should go into /usr/lib/kde3
[04:27] <marseillai> mmmmmmmmmmmm gpocentek and mr_pouit told me it's not a problem
[04:27] <apacheLAGger> ok
[04:27] <apacheLAGger> marseillai: please add a TODO to have a look at this for future versions
[04:27] <marseillai> but i can change it quite easily
[04:27] <apacheLAGger> I mailed upstream to update the admin dir
[04:28] <marseillai> oki no problem
[04:28] <apacheLAGger> marseillai: well, not by the most lovely way of changing the sources ;-)
[04:28] <apacheLAGger> that would need new makefiles
[04:28] <apacheLAGger> though the admin dir is THAT old that you can't create them
[04:28] <marseillai> apacheLAGger, patching makefile should do the thing
[04:28] <marseillai> i've done it for smplayer
[04:28] <apacheLAGger> yes, but not with such an old admin dir
[04:28] <marseillai> apacheLAGger, with a patch! ;)
[04:28] <marseillai> oki
[04:28] <apacheLAGger> IIRC it doesn't even detect automake > 1.6 I think
[04:29] <apacheLAGger> really awkward thing
[04:29] <marseillai> but currently it works and motu seems to be happy with it
[04:29] <marseillai> so ....
[04:30] <apacheLAGger> yeah, just added a todo, advocation will not get lost ;-)
[04:30] <apacheLAGger> though if I was a motu you'd get one from me :)
[04:30] <apacheLAGger> nice work
[04:31] <marseillai> thanks
[04:52] <Arby> who looks after language-support in kubuntu?
[04:52] <Arby> and can they shed any light on bug 113145?
[04:52] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 113145 in language-support-fr "language-support-fr does not install on Feisty Fawn (7.04)." [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/113145
[04:53] <Arby> I have confirmed the bug and it looks like something that should affect more people than it seemingly has.
[04:59] <marseillai> Arby, could you come to #kubuntu-fr some times ?
[05:00] <Arby> marseillai: you mean now? sure
[05:00] <Arby> I didn't even know there was a #kubuntu-fr
[05:00] <marseillai> now you know! :)
[05:01] <Arby> marseillai: I should warn you I don't speak french, I just tested the bug :)
[05:02] <marseillai> lollllll
[05:03] <Arby> have you heard of anyone else with that bug?
[05:03] <Arby> I'd expect it to affect a lot of people
[05:03] <Arby> I'm trying to triage it
[05:04] <marseillai> Arby, i'm every day in #kubuntu-fr and have never heard anyone complaining with this problem
[05:04] <marseillai> but i don't see everyone
[05:04] <Arby> marseillai: hmm, strange
[05:06] <manchicken> OH HELL YEAH!!!!
[05:06] <manchicken> That kernel update fixed my sound card trouble!
[05:07] <Arby> I love it when that happens :)
[05:07] <manchicken> I hate when it breaks though.
[05:07] <Arby> yin to go with the yang :)
[05:08] <manchicken> Yeah, but it's all ATI's fault.
[05:08] <manchicken> They've got their own crappy codecs on a normal soundblaster chipset.
[05:08] <manchicken> atiixp wasn't really necessary.
[05:09] <manchicken> But it was necessary in order to try to lock the market into ATI :)
[05:12] <Arby> manchicken: do you have anything to do with adept?
[05:12] <manchicken> Sometimes :)
[05:12] <manchicken> Whenever it's good, not bad, that's me.
[05:12] <manchicken> heh
[05:13] <Arby> am I right in thinking bug 117345 is not actually a bug?
[05:13] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 117345 in adept "adept locks software database if it crashes" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/117345
[05:13] <manchicken> Yeah.
[05:13] <manchicken> I would say so.
[05:13] <Arby> the database locking is intentional?
[05:13] <manchicken> I'd say we need to look into the crash, not the database lockup.
[05:13] <manchicken> If you start adept as root it locks the database.
[05:13] <Arby> what should I ask for infowise?
[05:14] <Arby> (about to do triage)
[05:14] <manchicken> Ask about the crash, not about the lock.
[05:14] <Arby> if I write a response will you take a look.
[05:14] <manchicken> I'm not sure how you release a lock if the OS forcibly kills the program :)
[05:14] <manchicken> Sure.
[05:15] <Arby> I have done it in the past
[05:15] <Arby> dpkg -reconfigure or something
[05:15] <Arby> need to look it up
[05:15] <manchicken> Yeah, unlocking is easy.
[05:15] <manchicken> But making adept release the lock when it crashes is damn-near impossible.
[05:16] <Arby> any suggestions?
[05:16] <manchicken> Yeah.  We should figure out why it crashed and fix that.  Tell folks to `dpkg -configure -a` whenever it crashes on them.
[05:17] <manchicken> (which it doesn't do that often in my experience)
[05:18] <manchicken> It may be a good idea to have a "one-click-fix" program for gutsy.  With a bunch of shell scripts that will fix stuff.
[05:18] <Arby> agreed, I'm really quite a fan of adept most of the time :)
[05:18] <manchicken> I think that would make things so much nicer.
[05:18] <manchicken> Crikey, that's a good idea.
[05:18] <manchicken> I'm gonna put that on the meeting agenda.
[05:18] <Arby> I might come to this meeting then
[05:19] <manchicken> That's such a good idea, I can't believe I thought of it.
[05:19] <Arby> :)
[05:19] <Arby> dpkg -configure -a <-- that's what I was looking for thanks
[05:20] <Arby> manchicken: does adept make logs anywhere?
[05:20] <manchicken> I mean, how many times do we have to tell new users who aren't comfortable with the command line to "just type this command"
[05:20] <Arby> too many
[05:21] <manchicken> Don't know.
[05:21] <manchicken> Don't think so.
[05:21] <manchicken> I've only worked mostly on the UI.
[05:22] <Arby> OK no worries
[05:31] <manchicken> Howdy toma.
[05:32] <manchicken> Arby: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuOneClickFix
[05:32] <toma> hi all
[05:32] <Arby> manchicken: looking
[05:33] <manchicken> It's on the agenda for 2007.05.31.
[05:34] <manchicken> I'm gonna go do dishes now.
[05:34] <Jucato> nice manchicken :)
[05:36] <DaSkreech> mannchicken: ping me when you get back
[05:36] <DaSkreech> manchicken: even
[05:38] <DaSkreech> Jucato: This is going to suck :(
[05:38] <Jucato> what is?
[05:38] <Arby> manchicken: anything you can add to that --> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/adept/+bug/117345
[05:38] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 117345 in adept "adept locks software database if it crashes" [Undecided,Needs info] 
[05:39] <DaSkreech> Jucato: I gave my mom my computer for the week
[05:39] <Jucato> wb Hobbsee
[05:39] <DaSkreech> well since last week
[05:39] <DaSkreech> Cause she needs Windows XP for a while
[05:39] <DaSkreech> So I get her laptop with Vista
[05:39] <DaSkreech> Which means I'm Live Cding it for a while
[05:39] <Jucato> oh...
[05:40] <DaSkreech>  which means I'm gonna experiment and do a bunch of crazy stuff then get used to it
[05:40] <Jucato> hehe
[05:40] <DaSkreech> then go back to my old machine and miss all the new stuff :-(
[05:40] <Jucato> you can install Beryl or Compiz and you won't miss a thing
[05:41] <Arby> manchicken: nice idea with the OneClickFix btw
[05:41] <DaSkreech> No I've decided I don't like Beryl/Compiz
[05:41] <DaSkreech> kwin_composite for me :)
[05:42] <Hobbsee> ty
[05:42] <Arby> manchicken: although couldn't the adept use case be just a button that appears on the error message saying 'unlock database'

[06:04] <manchicken> Arby: I suppose we could go there, but the one-click fix thing I think also needs to be a central location for one-click fixes.
[06:04] <Arby> manchicken: fair enough, just a thought.
[06:04] <manchicken> Yeah.
[06:05] <manchicken> I don't want that idea to get lost in the adept realm.
[06:05] <Arby> I have no idea about the practicalities of actually doing it
[06:05] <Arby> if it could be generally applied that would be cool
[06:05] <manchicken> I also see the possibility of us having some small scripts there that would present users with GUIs.
[06:05] <manchicken> I would also think that every one-click fix would have some form of GUI.
[06:06] <Arby> 'Crash recovery interface' sort of thing
[06:06] <Arby> possibly with a short explanantion of what the button does
[06:07] <Arby> would that require re-writing some error messages (e.g. adept) to point the user to the OneClickfix for that error
[06:07] <Arby> ?
[06:07] <manchicken> Naw, more focusing on the specific problem.
[06:08] <Arby> OK, I'm just being curious :)
[06:11] <manchicken> Not a problem :)
[06:11] <manchicken> I'm basing this idea off of Comcast's one-click fix thingy.
[06:12] <manchicken> They have several little screen that works like this.
[06:17] <nixternal> Riddell: all docs are cc-by-sa :(
[06:22] <yuriy> hi, stupid question, how to add a toolbar in qt4 designer?
[06:33] <nixternal> yuriy: I found the only way to do it was to use the main window selection when you first started your project. otherwise you would create the title bar in code
[06:33] <nixternal> widgets and what not are not supposed to have titlebars from the looks of it
[06:34] <nixternal> I was just wondering the same thing recently, then I looked at some code and realized they were adding the toolbar that way (ie via code)
[06:35] <nixternal> Riddell: if you want to have the Kubuntu docs GPL, you would stand a better chance than I for getting it done...I made my stance with the whole issue and that I didn't like CC because all the docs I need to work with in KDE are GFDL...
[06:36] <nixternal> GFDL on the first line, not GPL
[06:36] <DaSkreech> manchicken: ping
[06:36] <nixternal> plus I am in talks with Debian people and they would love to share docs with us as well, but they can't because our doc project is seen as non-free by them
[06:36] <manchicken> pong
[06:37] <nixternal> manchicken: ping?
[06:37] <nixternal> ;p
[06:37] <manchicken> DROPPED
[06:37] <nixternal> haha
[06:37] <DaSkreech> manchicken: heard about the call for google to release their code?
[06:37] <manchicken> Which code
[06:37] <nixternal> DaSkreech: link!!!!
[06:37] <DaSkreech> manchicken: I would assume all of it
[06:38] <nixternal> Google != Open Source or Free Software...and that damn Chris NoBackbonah censored me at Flourish when I was owning him
[06:38] <yuriy> nixternal: toolbar not titlebar
[06:38] <nixternal> oh
[06:38] <manchicken> nixternal: What now?
[06:38] <nixternal> manchicken: nothing..why the hostility?
[06:38] <nixternal> you live to far for me to pee in your korn flakes ;p
[06:39] <DaSkreech> http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070525-gpl-3-author-wants-companies-like-google-to-open-up-internal-use-patches.html
[06:39] <manchicken> What now?
[06:40] <DaSkreech> wondering if you had any thoughts on it
[06:40] <DaSkreech> nixternal: Who said that google == Open source ?
[06:40] <nixternal> Chris DiBona
[06:41] <manchicken> I really hope Moglen shuts the hell up on that one.
[06:42] <manchicken> Nice.
[06:43] <manchicken> Google != Open source && Google == A_COMPANY :)
[06:43] <nixternal> a damn big company :)
[06:43] <DaSkreech> With cooks!
[06:43] <nixternal> I just wish their headhunters would leave me alone already
[06:43] <manchicken> google.com != proprietary && GoogleEarth == proprietary
[06:43] <nixternal> and stale twix bars
[06:43] <DaSkreech> anyone else notice it's near lunch time?
[06:43] <nixternal> manchicken: you buying us lunch?
[06:44] <manchicken> I happen to think that Google is more bad than good, but they do put out some free software.
[06:44] <manchicken> nixternal: If you give me the money, I'll buy it.
[06:44] <nixternal> i.e. MySQL and Apach gets a lot of love
[06:44] <DaSkreech> well they encourage free software
[06:44] <nixternal> manchicken: deal!
[06:44] <nixternal> oh wait
[06:44] <DaSkreech>  which is good
[06:44] <nixternal> that means I am buying lunch ;)
[06:44] <nixternal> I buy, you fly!
[06:44] <manchicken> No, it only means you're paying for lunch.
[06:45] <nixternal> true
[06:45] <manchicken> nixternal: We should carpool to Boston in November :)
[06:45] <nixternal> oh lord, that would be one hell of a drive
[06:45] <manchicken> Two days.
[06:45] <nixternal> do we cut through canada, or do we stay in the states?
[06:45] <nixternal> 1 day
[06:45] <manchicken> 13 hours by my estimate.
[06:46] <nixternal> 1 day :)
[06:46] <manchicken> Stop over in Ohio or something.
[06:46] <nixternal> 13 hours?
[06:46] <nixternal> I thought it was longer
[06:46] <yuriy> it's like a 10 hour trip to ohio..
[06:46] <manchicken> Yeah.  It may be a bad estimate.
[06:46] <manchicken> Naw, its only like 6-7 hours to Ohio.
[06:46] <nixternal> it is 10-12 hrs to DC for me from Chicago
[06:46] <manchicken> And I'm talking Columbus, OH.
[06:46] <marseillai> grrrrrrrrrr
[06:46] <nixternal> that is about right
[06:46] <marseillai> i reboot my desktop
[06:46] <yuriy> manchicken: it's 6-7 hours to some places in NY
[06:46] <marseillai> and apt-get not found
[06:46] <nixternal> ouch
[06:46] <DaSkreech> nixternal: what did you say to Chris?
[06:46] <marseillai> it doesn't boot! :s
[06:47] <yuriy> ^^ toolbar in qt designer?
[06:47] <Arby> marseillai: several people seem to be having boot problems with the new kernel
[06:47] <nixternal> DaSkreech: I was asking him if he promotes open source so much, where are all of his contributions? and then I asked him why the APIs they release are less than the ones they use
[06:47] <Arby> see bug 117314
[06:47] <manchicken> Google maps estimates 16.54 hours.
[06:47] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 117314 in linux-source-2.6.20 "latest kernel(2.6.20-16.28) update gives boot problems" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/117314
[06:48] <nixternal> and it kept going...I got a ....next question
[06:48] <manchicken> My mistake.
[06:48] <manchicken> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=champaign,+il+to+boston,+ma&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=27.643082,63.28125&ie=UTF8&z=5&om=1
[06:48] <manchicken> That's if you came to my place.
[06:48] <nixternal> manchicken: we can knock 1.5 to 2 hours off of that
[06:48] <Arby> I was just about to ask about triaging it
[06:48] <nixternal> so you are about right then
[06:48] <nixternal> PA is the only state you need to really watch, but they typically hang out in construction zones
[06:48] <DaSkreech> nixternal: microsoftian :)
[06:48] <marseillai> Arby: is there a known fix ?
[06:48] <manchicken> Sorry, I don't speed :)
[06:49] <Arby> not that I've seen yet
[06:49] <nixternal> manchicken: either do I, I just politely exploit the limit
[06:49] <manchicken> More than 5mph
[06:49] <nixternal> I know speed limits have 7mph fluctuation on anything over 40
[06:49] <manchicken> heh
[06:49] <Arby> marseillai: it seems to be problems with device IDs for most people
[06:50] <nixternal> and that was done by the supreme court to stop cops from writing tickets for 1mph over
[06:50] <manchicken> Actually, it may be best to go and hit up a hotel in Cleveland.
[06:50] <nixternal> hit the bars?
[06:50] <Arby> I think people are fixing by manually editing fstab and friends
[06:50] <nixternal> they have that area by all of the warehouses and stuff
[06:50] <manchicken> 2000+ miles
[06:50] <DaSkreech> manchicken: wouldn't that depend on the state?
[06:50] <nixternal> they have some cool places
[06:51] <DaSkreech> Florida can charge you for 1 mph over
[06:51] <manchicken> DaSkreech: Any state can charge you for 1mph over.
[06:51] <nixternal> DaSkreech: you can get the case logs somewhere I am sure to get that over turned
[06:51] <manchicken> But there is no planet on which speed detection is that accurate.
[06:51] <manchicken> There are far too many variables.
[06:51] <nixternal> haha, the google dude is hangin' out in chicago channel I see
[06:52] <manchicken> The standing rule for most police I've met an 8mph grace.
[06:52] <nixternal> he gets so mad when I talk trash about it
[06:52] <nixternal> manchicken: ya same here
[06:52] <manchicken> Most of the time they'll only nail you going more than 10mph
[06:52] <yuriy> ah found it.
[06:52] <manchicken> over
[06:52] <DaSkreech> well I know that they can charge you extra on top of the fine for each mile per hour over 10 MPH above the limit
[06:52] <nixternal> you can do 75 through Ohio, and pretty much PA, but when you come upon a construction zone in PA, you better do 45 or less
[06:52] <DaSkreech> so a 15 MPH breakage is a seperate fine from a 16 MPH
[06:53] <yuriy> 45? o_O that's scary slow
[06:53] <nixternal> DaSkreech: in Illinois, 20mph over the speed limit is wreckless driving and they can arrest you
[06:53] <manchicken> DaSkreech: IIRC, 15mph over could be argued reckless driving.
[06:53] <DaSkreech> And it get doubled if there is a police giving out a ticket already
[06:53] <manchicken> Ah.  I thought it was 15.
[06:53] <yuriy> i say 85 the whole way and be careful
[06:54] <nixternal> well I learned it was 20, because I got nailed by a state cop on 355 for doing 77 in a 55, and he knocked it down because he said I was driving 2mph fast enough to be taken to jail
[06:54] <yuriy> 75 != speeding
[06:54] <yuriy> :D
[06:54] <nixternal> hehe
[06:54] <nixternal> Michigan the speed limit is 70...you do 80 the cops don't do anything, 85 they may get you, 90 your toast
[06:54] <yuriy> although do people not speed as much in other states?
[06:55] <nixternal> people in Chicago speed in the loop for pete's sake
[06:55] <yuriy> i was going down an empty highway in NY and passing everybody going 70..
[06:55] <yuriy> it was creepy almost
[06:55] <marseillai> Arby: it seems fsck solves the problem
[06:55] <manchicken> We need something like the motorways in Europe without speed limits :)
[06:55] <nixternal> yuriy: those weren't cars, those were the Amish buggies :)
[06:55] <nixternal> manchicken: Montana?
[06:55] <nixternal> don't they have that now?
[06:56] <manchicken> If we just had a grid of those, I'd even be okay with those being tollways.
[06:56] <nixternal> IPASS
[06:56] <DaSkreech> yuriy: well if it was empty and you were passing people ..... yeah that would be creepy
[06:56] <Arby> marseillai: do you want to comment on the bug I linked then describing how you fixed it.
[06:56] <nixternal> IFLY
[06:57] <nixternal> haha
[06:57] <marseillai> Arby: i tell you how i do, if it works then i let you comment! is it possible ?
[06:58] <manchicken> nixternal: Did you look at my addition to the agenda?
[06:58] <nixternal> to the kubuntu meeting?
[06:58] <manchicken> Yup
[06:58] <Arby> marseillai: not really, I don't have the bug on my system so I can't confirm if your fix works
[06:58] <nixternal> not yet..I need to check it out
[06:58] <nixternal> I think I am at school during that meeting..possibly learning java ;)
[07:00] <nixternal> http://trolltech.com/products/qt/jambi  <- that is why I decided I would learn some java right there
[07:00] <nixternal> Qt just flat out rocks
[07:01] <nixternal> manchicken: good deal on that
[07:01] <marseillai> a question during the fsck! does anyone could tell me what is the procedure to be accept after applying to LP kubuntu-members? I have to come on the next kubuntu-meeting, then ???
[07:01] <nixternal> someone started a page on the wiki that shows all of the things that should be console'fied
[07:02] <Hobbsee> marseillai: see the bottom half of https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings
[07:02] <marseillai> Hobbsee: problem with xubuntu people is solve ?
[07:02] <nixternal> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuEdgyWhatStillNeedsAConsole
[07:03] <nixternal> there is one of the pages, there is also a Dapper page
[07:03] <manchicken> Nice.
[07:03] <manchicken> Yeah, do you know Comcast's one-click solutions thing?
[07:04] <nixternal> not really..I will have to look at it
[07:05] <nixternal> brb
[07:10] <marseillai_> :mi
[07:56] <nixternal> careful
[07:57] <nixternal> hahaha
[07:57] <nixternal> chicken!
[07:57] <nixternal> only weapon I have to prevent you running away is a Kubuntu CD
[07:57] <DaSkreech> man!
[07:59] <mhb> Hobbsee: shouldn't you run away to the bedroom or something?
[07:59] <Hobbsee> mmm....sleep
[07:59] <Hobbsee> yeah, maybe
[08:00] <Tm_T> ruuun too thaaa hiiiiiiiiilsss
[08:01] <mhb> Hobbsee: somehow, I am able to accurately guess what time it is in Australia
[08:01] <Hobbsee> mhmm...
[08:01] <Hobbsee> what's your guess?
[08:02] <mhb> very early in the morning
[08:02] <Hobbsee> 4am
[08:03] <mhb> heh, close
[08:05] <mhb> Hobbsee: go get some sleep, that's (almost) an order :o)
[08:05] <Hobbsee> heh
[08:39] <manchicken> mhb: Wuddup?
[08:49] <Daskreech> I just changed the time on Kubuntu and had to log out :(
[08:56] <mhb> manchicken: I coded that little kdesu modification we talked about, but that is not the best thing
[08:57] <mhb> manchicken: today, one guy mailed me that he has done the same, even better than me
[08:58] <mhb> manchicken: so kdesu is pretty taken care of :o)
[08:58] <Daskreech> Great :)
[08:58] <Daskreech> Should we have a most wanted list?
[08:59] <manchicken> mhb: Sweet.
[08:59] <manchicken> I'm still trying to get this system settings port done.
[09:00] <mhb> Daskreech: why not :o) is there anything you would like to see done? :o)
[09:01] <Daskreech> get rid of the stupid keyboard bug
[09:02] <mhb> Daskreech: in systemsettings?
[09:07] <Daskreech> Oh .. yeah that too :)
[09:07] <mhb> Daskreech: which one do you mean then?
[09:08] <Daskreech> Where the keyboard dies and you can't type
[09:08] <Daskreech> you have to log out then it magically works again
[09:09] <mhb> never happened here
[09:09] <mhb> or on any of my 3+ kubuntu computers
[09:13] <marseillai> could someone give me some informations about merging ?
[09:13] <marseillai> i'm trying to improve my skills in it
[09:13] <marseillai> and i take a look at k3b
[09:14] <marseillai> but when i look at it in MoM i see this http://merges.ubuntu.com there is actual ubuntu package, actual debian package, but not old debian package on wich ubuntu is based ....
[09:14] <manchicken> Why did we have to completely redo kaction in KDE4?
[09:19] <marseillai> Riddell: i would like to give a try to kaffeine merging. Would you agree to take a look at it when it's done to see if i've done good work ?
[09:25] <Daskreech> mhb: just happened to me on the Live Cd
[09:31] <ryanakca> Riddell: thanks
[10:11] <Riddell> marseillai: no, tonio's done that
[10:11] <marseillai> oki
[10:11] <marseillai> anyway it's too hard for me
[10:11] <Riddell> marseillai: try k3b-i18n if you want something in main, then move on to k3b
[10:11] <marseillai> i'm trying akode
[10:11] <marseillai> Riddell: too hard too for the moment
[10:12] <Riddell> does akode need merging?
[10:12] <marseillai> yes
[10:12] <marseillai> http://dad.dunnewind.net/akode/
[10:12] <Riddell> it actually has quite a diff because of the mp3 separation in ubuntu
[10:12] <Riddell> http://merges.ubuntu.com/main.html  it's an updated merge, so it's not a priority but still can be done
[10:13] <marseillai> oki
[10:13] <marseillai> i just take a look at akode because i've start
[10:13] <marseillai> and go to k3b-i18n
[10:14] <Daskreech> Riddell: Do you know of the keyboard bug? Where the keyboard suddenly stops working?
[10:17] <marseillai> Riddell: the problem is that with k3b-i18n there is no debian package on wich is base actual ubuntu package : http://merges.ubuntu.com/k/k3b-i18n/ ! so for me it's too hard! :(
[10:22] <RadiantFire> mhb: still there?
[10:23] <nixternal> Riddell: you gave me a ping earlier about kubuntu-doc licensing...anything you want or need with it
[10:55] <Riddell> nixternal: I'd rather it's under the FDL (and CC) for the reasons you give, but it's not worth spending time on if it's a bother
[10:56] <Riddell> nixternal: what's the status of backporting docs i18n to edgy and dapper?
[10:57] <_StefanS_> hi there
[11:04] <DaSkreech> !info mypasswordsafe
[11:04] <ubotu> mypasswordsafe: Easy-to-use password manager. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.0.20050615-1.1 (feisty), package size 576 kB, installed size 1012 kB
[11:05] <DaSkreech> Hmm
[11:05] <DaSkreech> *: ping
[11:06] <nixternal> Riddell: the backporting of the i18n for edgy docs is already reported in a bug awaiting someone to upload
[11:06] <nixternal> as for Dapper, last I heard it was fine with i18n
[11:07] <fdoving> man, this community is going nutts.
[11:07] <fdoving> http://linux.blogweb.de/archives/337-My-Appologies-to-everybody-not-living-in-a-free-country.html
[11:08] <nixternal> lol
[11:11] <marseillai> why did tonio removes libgphoto2-2-dev and add kdebase-kio-plugins from digikam depends ? in fact i don't understand why debian has libgphoto2-2-dev in digikam dep ....
[11:13] <DaSkreech> nixternal: ping
[11:13] <nixternal> el pongo
[11:13] <DaSkreech> in Kubunut?
[11:13] <DaSkreech> Kubuntu?
[11:14] <DaSkreech> manchicken_: should probably check this as well :)
[11:14] <nixternal> haha, sometimes I feel like a nut, some times ya don't
[11:14] <manchicken_> What now?
[11:14] <nixternal> haha
[11:14] <DaSkreech> open adept and search for Disc jockey
[11:15] <DaSkreech> how many hits do you get?
[11:15] <nixternal> 2
[11:15] <nixternal> mixxx and mixxx-data
[11:15] <manchicken_> 2
[11:16] <DaSkreech> *blinks*
[11:16] <DaSkreech> Ok
[11:16] <DaSkreech> I get 3
[11:16] <DaSkreech> Mypasswordsafe
[11:16] <DaSkreech> has the description of mixxx-data
[11:16] <manchicken_> Probably a repos thing.
[11:17] <nixternal> manchicken_: did you get the changelogs working with the feisty release? or am I don't something wrong and not getting them to show up?
[11:17] <DaSkreech> ok
[11:17] <manchicken_> Yeah.  They're there.
[11:17] <nixternal> s/don't/doing
[11:18] <DaSkreech> They work here
[11:18] <manchicken_> I was looking at the changelogs for the kernel updates this morning :)
[11:18] <manchicken_> You do have to be online at the time you want to check them :)
[11:18] <nixternal> last I checked, I am online :)
[11:18] <nixternal> !ping
[11:18] <ubotu> pong
[11:18] <nixternal> yup
[11:18] <manchicken_> It does not use apt proxy info though.
[11:19] <nixternal> maybe not every package has a changelog?
[11:19] <manchicken_> I'm not sure if that feature is proxy friendly now that I think about it.
[11:19] <manchicken_> I'm using QHTTP stuff for that IIRC.
[11:23] <Riddell> nixternal: can you e-mail me the bug number and I'll look at it in the morning
[11:24] <DaSkreech> !info mypasswordsafe
[11:24] <ubotu> mypasswordsafe: Easy-to-use password manager. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.0.20050615-1.1 (feisty), package size 576 kB, installed size 1012 kB
[11:25] <DaSkreech> Nope can't find that description :(
[11:38] <DaSkreech> nixternal: Whooooooooooooooooooooot vi vs Emacs for the summer showdown!!!!
[11:41] <marseillai> :)
[11:41] <marseillai> but i don't know what to do with it
[11:42] <marseillai> oki
[11:42] <marseillai> i'll make a lp report
[11:43] <nixternal> Riddell: sure thing
[11:44] <mhb> manchicken_: still here?
[11:44] <manchicken_> Yup :)
[11:44] <mhb> manchicken_: that idea of yours doesnt sound so bad to me
[11:44] <mhb> manchicken_: the one-click one
[11:44] <manchicken_> Yeah.  I like it.
[11:45] <manchicken_> I think it makes so much sense I can't believe we didn't think of it before.
[11:45] <manchicken_> We've all got our ~/bin scripts, but what of those who don't script? :)
[11:45] <mhb> manchicken_: well, I still imagine it might get refused by others
[11:45] <mhb> manchicken_: but nevertheless
[11:46] <manchicken_> Why though
[11:46] <manchicken_> ?
[11:46] <DaSkreech> one click?
[11:46] <mhb> manchicken_: perhaps to revolutionary, perhaps too dangerous, perhaps unneeded
[11:46] <mhb> manchicken_: but those are not my arguments
[11:47] <mhb> manchicken_: I like it
[11:47] <manchicken_> Folks with arguments like that should spend time in #kubuntu :)
[11:47] <mhb> manchicken_: the best thing would be to make it user-(co)-powered
[11:47] <manchicken_> What do you mean?
[11:48] <mhb> manchicken_: people could submit scripts, which could get into the distribution
[11:48] <manchicken_> Sure.
[11:48] <manchicken_> That would be great.
[11:49] <manchicken_> I think we should standardize it a bit though.
[11:49] <mhb> manchicken_: of course, we cannot let everyone submit whatever they want
[11:49] <manchicken_> Maybe come up with a Ruby or Python KDE interface or something for it.
[11:49] <manchicken_> the thing is I don't want it to have ANY command-line interface stuff.
[11:49] <mhb> manchicken_: yes
[11:50] <mhb> manchicken_: imagine a bash script with a description
[11:50] <manchicken_> heh
[11:50] <mhb> manchicken_: people can make that script
[11:50] <mhb> manchicken_: and send it to us or wherever
[11:50] <manchicken_> Yeah.
[11:51] <mhb> manchicken_: then a Joe User would launch one-click and search for "dpkg lock" and he would see just the description. One click - fixed.
[11:51] <manchicken_> Well, I like the idea of a every fix having its own GUI.
[11:51] <DaSkreech> one click?
[11:51] <fdoving> ncurses based then? - for xorg driver fixing. :)
[11:52] <mhb> manchicken_: no wizards, please :o)
[11:52] <manchicken_> Not wizards.
[11:52] <manchicken_> Just "hey, we're about to do this to your computer."
[11:52] <manchicken_> "click here if that's okay."
[11:53] <mhb> DaSkreech: [#kubuntu-devel]  DaSkreech:
[11:53] <mhb> DaSkreech: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuOneClickFix
[11:53] <fdoving> manchicken_: i like the idea.
[11:53] <mhb> DaSkreech: sorry .o)
[11:53] <manchicken_> DaSkreech: What if you could click one thing in order to reset your network interface or restart the sound system?
[11:54] <crimsun> ...restart the sound system?
[11:54] <DaSkreech> crimsun: ha ha You are creepy :)
[11:54] <fdoving> crimsun: arts needs some restarting :)
[11:55] <manchicken_> I think most of the folks in Kubuntudom will dig this idea.
[11:55] <crimsun> ah, you mean arts and not alsa.
[11:55] <manchicken_> Yeah.
[11:55] <mhb> crimsun: hehe
[11:55] <manchicken_> Sorry, I should have said KDE sound system
[11:55] <DaSkreech> manchicken_: so like the "solutions" solution in Vista?
[11:56] <mhb> crimsun: alsa is great :o)
[11:56] <manchicken_> DaSkreech: Well I'm actually talking about solutions to problems.
[11:56] <DaSkreech> manchicken_: :-) Funny
[11:56] <manchicken_> And I'm not thinking of trying to make the users more ignorant.
[11:56] <mhb> manchicken_: I dont think more guis is necessary
[11:56] <manchicken_> I want to explain stuff to users in detail before doing anything.
[11:57] <manchicken_> mhb: Well, sometimes it may be necessary for more GUI.
[11:57] <mhb> manchicken_: damn, now I am not going to sleep :o)
[11:57] <mhb> manchicken_: I will do some Designer mockups later
[11:57] <manchicken_> Righto.
[11:57] <manchicken_> It's a good idea I think
[11:57] <manchicken_> I think it'll make everything simpler for newer users.
[11:59] <manchicken_> s/everything/common problem solving/
[11:59] <DaSkreech> manchicken_: how would it work? Would they only get solutions for problems they have?
[12:00] <fdoving> rss feed of problems :)
[12:00] <mhb> DaSkreech: I guess you would have a collection of one-time scripts
[12:00] <mhb> DaSkreech: you can search through
[12:00] <manchicken_> Well, when I had Comcast internet on my wife's old win32 machine (before we fixed it with a kubuntu CD), they had a program that you could click one link/button/whatever and it would fix problems on your machine.
[12:00] <DaSkreech> categorized?
[12:01] <RadiantFire> mmm.. hello again mhb
[12:01] <manchicken_> Such as, your internet stopped working.  Clicking here will reset your network interfaces, renew your DHCP lease, whatever.
[12:01] <mhb> RadiantFire: hi, is private message fine?
[12:02] <manchicken_> I think the simplicity isn't from categorization.  It's more simple to have fewer solutions.
[12:02] <RadiantFire> mhb: sure
[12:02] <manchicken_> Instead of one for DHCP issues, one for network interfaces, only one for all internet problems.
[12:03] <mhb> sounds like wizards
[12:03] <manchicken_> mhb: I don't care for wizards.  I like singular dialogs.
[12:03] <RadiantFire> what if you did an i/o slave that populates icons with common problems and ignores the ones it can detect aren't possible
[12:04] <DaSkreech> teh page says that Konqueror can do this?
[12:04] <DaSkreech> kio slave?
[12:04] <DaSkreech> fix:/
[12:04] <manchicken_> Could, but I think for now at least we need to keep it simple.
[12:04] <manchicken_> DaSkreech: Naw, just the UI with all of the fixes.
[12:05] <manchicken_> So instead of coming up with a new program that lists your fixes, you just get sent to konq with a list of all of the available fixes listed there.
[12:09] <DaSkreech> manchicken_: that could grow to be huge
[12:09] <manchicken_> DaSkreech: Does it really need to?
[12:09] <DaSkreech> Well if it's user submitted and grows across releases
[12:10] <DaSkreech> ummm yeah
[12:10] <marseillai> question there is one kubuntu meeting per month ?
[12:10] <manchicken_> We need to isolate the common desktop related problems and only put those in here... at least at first.
[12:10] <mhb> marseillai: no
[12:10] <mhb> marseillai: one kubuntu meeting whenever we agree on one
[12:10] <mhb> marseillai: the dates are not set
[12:10] <manchicken_> DaSkreech: I don't think the common desktop related problems have grown much.
[12:10] <marseillai> oki
[12:11] <marseillai> thanks mhb
[12:12] <DaSkreech> Will they get expunged as we come up with real GUI interfaces to the problems?
[12:12] <manchicken_> There are still the "my internet is broke," "my mail is broke," "my browser is broke," "my instant messager is broke," "my X setup is broke," and the all popular "I was dumb enough to use beryl/compiz and now my everything is broke."
[12:12] <DaSkreech> Like stopping Adept from crashing?
[12:12] <manchicken_> DaSkreech: Gosh I would hope so.
[12:12] <manchicken_> DaSkreech: Adept crashing isn't the only way to lock your database.
[12:12] <DaSkreech> how would that work?
[12:12] <DaSkreech> manchicken_: I'm being facetious
[12:12] <manchicken_> DaSkreech: Killing adept and ^C on anything that hits dpkg database would break it.
[12:13] <DaSkreech> I know :) power outages
[12:13] <DaSkreech>  I DO live in the third world
[12:13] <manchicken_> Nice.
[12:13] <DaSkreech> but how would they get the one click? it ships with the release?
[12:13] <manchicken_> Disk space being full would be another nice one.
[12:13] <DaSkreech> haven't hit that one yet :)
[12:13] <manchicken_> I think for the most part these fixes could even just be .desktop entries for existing programs.
[12:14] <DaSkreech> Right. But I'm saying they would have to be on the hard drive right?
[12:14] <DaSkreech>  not on an external server?
[12:14] <DaSkreech> otherwise make my net work is a joke button
[12:14] <manchicken_> This would all be desktop only fixes.
[12:14] <manchicken_> Remember, Kubuntu is a desktop distribution :)
[12:15] <DaSkreech> Sort of like how we have the instructions to make the gateway work on our server in Texas... so you can't read it if the gateway isnt' working
[12:15] <manchicken_> I don't think we need to go too far down the path of making decisions just yet.
[12:15] <DaSkreech> manchicken_: right so they get expunged when other fixes turn up? so part of the spec of the other fixes would be to erase the one click?
[12:16] <manchicken_> I'd just like to see a place where people know to go where they can find quick and simple solutions for when their machine starts acting up.