[12:19] <shawarma> imbrandon: perm?
[12:19] <shawarma> imbrandon: Is that secret code for the jabber server?
[12:19] <shawarma> seems to be :)
[12:21] <imbrandon> shawarma, perm == permanently
[12:22] <ajmitch> hi
[12:23] <sacater> what is the default picture-viewer in Ubuntu 7.04
[12:24] <imbrandon> heya ajmitch 
[12:24] <jdong> bug 117256
[12:24] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 117256 in Ubuntu "Thats What She Said!" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/117256
[12:24] <jdong> wow :)
[12:24] <jdong> couldn't resist replying though
[12:24] <shawarma> imbrandon: Oh, of course.
[12:29] <joejaxx> jdong: that is messed up
[12:34] <crimsun> sacater: eog
[12:35] <imbrandon> ugh, looks like someone compromised p.d.o , ors its a lame joke
[12:39] <geser> http://flickr.com/photos/jtarrio/512422457/
[12:40] <ajmitch> imbrandon: p.d.o?
[12:41] <imbrandon> planet.debian.org
[12:41] <ajmitch> ah
[12:41] <ajmitch> I was thinking either people or packages.d.o
[12:41] <imbrandon> the more i look, the more it looks like a bad joke
[12:42] <ajmitch> imbrandon: what's the bad joke?
[12:42] <imbrandon> loldebian.wordpress.org
[12:42] <imbrandon> syndication
[12:42] <imbrandon> s/.org/.com
[12:42] <ajmitch> ok, I don't see what it's a bad joke
[12:43] <ajmitch> it's a bunch of old photos with silly captions
[12:44] <imbrandon> yea like the cat captions, 1999ish
[12:44] <imbrandon> just was suprised to see it on the planet
[12:45] <ajmitch> I'm not
[12:45] <ajmitch> I know how odd some people are
[12:45] <imbrandon> has pidgin leaked into gutsy from unstable yet ? 
[12:45] <ajmitch> sure
[12:46] <ajmitch> ii  pidgin                            2.0.0+dfsg.1-3ubuntu2             multi-protocol instant messaging client
[12:46] <imbrandon> ahh not 2.0.1-1 , i'm sure that will sync soonish
[12:46] <imbrandon> err maybe not, looks mergeable
[01:19] <crimsun> err, double-you tee eff. snd-hda-intel is more broken than previously thought.
[01:22] <ajmitch> ending up with having to reboot
[01:24] <crimsun> interestingly enough, pulseaudio does the Right Thing
[01:27] <crimsun> ajmitch: what sort of issues? feisty? gutsy?
[01:27] <ajmitch> gutsy, with feisty kernel
[01:27] <ajmitch> was playing something in wine with the alsa driver
[01:28] <ajmitch> apps then blocked trying to do things with sound
[01:29] <ajmitch> it's not the first time it's happened, but previously rmmod & modprobe had fixed it
[01:32] <crimsun> that's ominous and smells of memory corruption
[01:33] <ajmitch> any time it's happened, wine has been involved, I'm sure :)
[01:33] <ajmitch> one point it was due to a fan stopping, however I got at least some info in dmesg
[01:34] <ajmitch> it wouldn't surprise me if it was still due to overheating
[02:13] <RAOF> Howdie MOTUs!
[02:13] <crimsun> hi.
[02:14] <RAOF> Good morning crimsun :)
[02:14] <ryanakca> can a MOTU look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5299 please
[02:19] <RAOF> I'm not a motu, but is that XS-Vcs-Svn: correct?  I thought that field was for when the packaging was in an RCS.
[02:20] <RAOF> ryanakca: Also, I think the versioning might want to be 1.0~alpha5-0ubuntu1, so that when the actual 1.0 package comes out, 1.0-0ubuntu1 will have a higher version number.
[02:20] <ryanakca> RAOF: I don't know, I copied it from the vim package.
[02:21] <ryanakca> I can take care of the alpha part though
[02:22] <RAOF> ryanakca: Yeah, the Vcs bit is for the *packaging* in SVN, not upstream (if I read this mail from u-d-d correctly)
[02:22] <ryanakca> ok. I'll take it out :)
[02:36] <crimsun> this newen feller in the support channel really is spouting nonsense.
[02:36] <RAOF> Just a bit :)
[02:37] <StevenK> crimsun: Now you have to share.
[02:37] <crimsun> essentially, he's saying that it's easier to write crap Python than crap C and that he should use Mono or Java because Python is just a scripting language.
[02:37] <persia> StevenK: Use XPM!
[02:38] <StevenK> persia: It's PNG, and I'd rather not convert it at build time. :-)
[02:38] <persia> StevenK: Convert it at packaging time.
[02:38] <StevenK> crimsun: Riiiight
[02:42] <StevenK> persia: I'm not sure if the program in question would cope with XPM data as opposed to PNG.
[02:42] <persia> StevenK: Ah.  Too bad :(
[02:43] <ajmitch> crimsun: if he wants to use java, well it's his funeral :)
[02:46] <welshbyte> he seems to be too busy language trolling to do any coding ;)
[02:55] <crimsun> yep, questions like "which is faster, mono, java or python" clearly indicate a lack of understanding
[02:56] <imbrandon> java and funeral in the same sentance, man i love this place more and more
[02:56] <imbrandon> :)
[02:57] <joejaxx> :(
[02:57] <joejaxx> java is good for certain applications :\
[02:57] <joejaxx> :P
[02:57] <joejaxx> imbrandon: may i pm?
[02:58] <imbrandon> joejaxx, yea
[02:59] <imbrandon> joejaxx, you never have to ask me , as long as i'm arround :)
[02:59] <joejaxx> ok :)
[02:59] <joejaxx> just irc manners :P
[03:02] <persia> StevenK: It's not uncommon.
[03:23] <ryanakca> why do I get this when running debuild -S -sa -kE95EDDC9 ? http://pastebin.ca/515064
[03:24] <RAOF> ryanakca: Because you've got seahorse running as a GPG agent, and you haven't passed "-e DISPLAY" as the first parameter of debuild?
[03:26] <ryanakca> RAOF: I have no such thing installed. I did however, just write https://help.ubuntu.com/community/KMailGPGAgent ... gpg-agent :)
[03:26] <ryanakca> will do
[03:26] <ryanakca> unknown dpkg-buildpackage/debuild option: DISPLAY
[03:26] <RAOF> -e DISPLAY?
[03:26] <ryanakca> oh, oops
[03:27] <ryanakca> first parameter != last
[03:27] <RAOF> ryanakca: And that wiki page seems to have broken formatting for the second script (.kde/shutdown/gpg-agent.sh)
[03:28] <ryanakca> RAOF: yeah. I'm trying to figure that part out
[03:28] <ryanakca> RAOF: it seems to ignore the [[BR] ]  :S
[03:30] <LaserJock> hi superm1 
[03:31] <superm1> hi LaserJock 
[03:31] <Hobbsee> morning all
[03:31] <superm1> i saw that i made it onto behind-motu early this last morning :)
[03:31] <ajmitch> congrats
[03:31] <ajmitch> hello Hobbsee 
[03:34] <LaserJock> superm1: yeah, finally got it up
[03:38] <andyp> ah that's better, a nick which is something close to my name
[03:56] <ScottK> Good evening all.
[03:58] <Hobbsee> hi ScottK!
[03:58] <StevenK> ScottK: You've been hiding under a rock for 3 days?
[04:01] <ScottK> No, not under a rock, just AFK due to a combination of work and family.
[04:02] <nixternal> OK, I need something to do
[04:02] <nixternal> I have looked at wnpp, the rfp's, ubuntu request tags
[04:02] <nixternal> to me it seemed that working on those right now is a waste of time if there is other work needed
[04:03] <ScottK> nixternal: There;'s ~150 open bugs against courier in Debian.  If you're really bored you could see if any apply to us and fix them, now that you're the courier expert.
[04:03] <nixternal> gahahahahadamnahahahahahahohdamnhahaha
[04:03] <nixternal> 150? last I checked my courier package had
[04:03] <ScottK> OK.  Not that bored.
[04:03] <nixternal> umm
[04:03] <nixternal> ...0
[04:04] <nixternal> :)
[04:04] <ScottK> None in Ubuntu.  Those are in Debian.
[04:04] <nixternal> oh lordy ;)
[04:04] <ScottK> nixternal: Do you know much about troubleshooting broken pipes?
[04:04] <nixternal> can't say that I do, that is why I have a plumber ;p
[04:05] <nixternal> what type of piping are we referring to here
[04:05] <nixternal> if I don't know much..I am sure I can learn
[04:05] <ScottK> Broken pipe between pyzor and spamassassin.
[04:05] <ScottK> First step would be to see if you can replicate it, then if you can confirm it, figure out which package to blame and fix it.
[04:05] <nixternal> I will check it out
[04:06] <ScottK> OK.  Great.  It's Bug 115853 and note that it's using the spamassassin 3.2.0 from feisty-backports.
[04:06] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 115853 in spamassassin "[apport]  pyzor crashed with IOError in run()" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/115853
[04:06] <nixternal> anything dealing with spam control I am all for
[04:06] <nixternal> ;)
[04:07] <ScottK> There is now a newer spamassassin in gutsy, so if it looks like it's spamassassin's fault, the first thing I'd look into is does backporting that fix it.
[04:12] <nixternal> running pyzor report now
[04:13] <ScottK> Adri2000 or Lutin: If you look at the scapy merge it generates a conflict where there really isn't one in debian/control due to the maintainer change.
[04:15] <RAOF> That's what I call a bug title!
[04:25] <nixternal> ScottK: I don't get that crash at all
[04:25] <nixternal> using --mbox
[04:26] <ScottK> nixternal: OK.  Then please mark it needs infor and ask the reporter to give steps to reproduce.  Thanks for looking.
[04:26] <nixternal> will do
[04:28] <ScottK> Great.
[04:29] <nixternal> why is spamassassin listed in that report?
[04:29] <nixternal> pyzor doesn't work with spamassassin from waht I could tell
[04:29] <ScottK> nixternal: I added it because that's what the broken pipe was from.  Since he'd just upgraded to the new SA in backports, it seems reasonable it might be to blame.
[04:30] <ScottK> nixternal: OK, then maybe that part of the comment was a complete red herring.
[04:30] <nixternal> ahh, ok
[04:30] <nixternal> ii  spamassassin          3.2.0-0ubuntu2~feisty Perl-based spam filter using text analysis
[04:30] <nixternal> I have 3.2 installed as well
[04:31] <nixternal> maybe he needs to rm -rf ~/.pyzor
[04:31] <ScottK> Do you have the Gutsy version or the Feisty-backports version?
[04:31] <nixternal> feisty backports according to that I just posted
[04:31] <nixternal> he is using 7.04
[04:31] <ScottK> Ah, yes.  That's right.
[04:32] <nixternal> hrmm
[04:32] <nixternal> I can get that same traceback almost by doing ctrl+c by forcing pyzor to hang
[04:34] <nixternal> the first 3 lines are identical
[04:35] <ScottK> IIRC, if a pipe is waiting for input and you stop the program, that's what you'll get, but I'm not sure.
[04:35] <nixternal> well, I didn't get the broken pipe, it let me know kb caused the issue
[04:36] <ScottK> OK
[04:39] <nixternal> man, I did find out the to become a DD, hell even a NM, it is no joke. there is a lot of questions they ask
[04:40] <ScottK> The is true.
[04:40] <crimsun> for good reason, too.
[04:41] <ScottK> I've been working in Debian through teams and then with DDs I met there for non-team stuff through mentors.
[04:41] <ajmitch> nixternal: you're going to be a DD?
[04:41] <nixternal> not for about another 8 years
[04:41] <ajmitch> so we can sit at your feet & bask in your wisdom, right? :)
[04:41] <nixternal> I would like to one of these days..I have a good instructor now...the guy who lives by me that is the DD, he was like the 40th ever
[04:42] <nixternal> been a DD since 95...he is going to give us CDBS and helper talks to get a ton of us into packaging
[04:42] <ajmitch> who is that?
[04:42] <nixternal> dirk buettelican'tspelltherestw/olookingatemail
[04:42] <ajmitch> heh ok
[04:43] <ajmitch> ScottK: not nearly as comprehensive
[04:43] <joejaxx> ScottK: lol
[04:43] <ScottK> Agreed.
[04:43] <Hobbsee> ScottK: core is worse, yes
[04:43] <Hobbsee> sure you are
[04:43] <ajmitch> no, I just bribed the right people
[04:44] <nixternal> the one good thing though with maintaining my own packages and working with the dds, is that I can now see little things within a package that aren't right, troubleshooting w/o asking so many damn questions
[04:44] <nixternal> building a library package from scratch, granted it was fairly easy
[04:44] <crimsun> a good upstream can make library maintenance a lot less hellish.
[04:44] <ajmitch> they just let me into debian because they felt sorry for me
[04:44] <crimsun> proper so* bumps, etc.
[04:44] <nixternal> crimsun: well this upstream didn't :)
[04:45] <nixternal> and remember to strip the /*.la
[04:47] <ajmitch> someone fix bug 116193 for me, I haven't had time to reproduce it :)
[04:47] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 116193 in tzdata "error upgrading tzdata_2007e to tzdata_2007f" [Undecided,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/116193
[04:47] <ajmitch> if anyone here has hit it, please tell me
[04:48] <persia> ajmitch: There's the handy little +mentor link :)
[04:48] <nixternal> ajmitch: I am the same as bill on there with timezone, and never had the issue
[04:49] <ajmitch> persia: yes, helpful, but mentoring is usually for simple little tasks
[04:49] <ajmitch> this is probably some debconf evils again
[04:49] <ajmitch> nixternal: cat /etc/timezone
[04:49] <nixternal> what do you think?
[04:49] <nixternal> America/Chicago
[04:49] <nixternal> hehe
[04:50] <ajmitch> well mine says "User defined" :P
[04:50] <nixternal> oh wait a second
[04:50] <persia> Hrm.  I've been using +mentor for anything that I'm not going to do right now, but could do, and wouldn't mind walking someone through or reviewing patches.
[04:50] <nixternal> that says with f and not e
[04:50] <nixternal> I have e installed
[04:51] <nixternal> is there an f for feisty
[04:51] <ajmitch> no
[04:51] <ajmitch> but we're doing gutsy here
[04:51] <ajmitch> so you're no help :P
[04:51] <nixternal> I can fire up gutsy I guess
[04:51] <nixternal> why the dpkg -i if he is on gutsy? why not jsut an apt-get upgrade
[04:52] <persia> nixternal: minimal test case to demonstrate a bug?
[04:52] <jmg> is dist-upgrading via update-manager reccomended?
[04:52] <RAOF> Yes
[04:52] <ajmitch> nixternal: to demonstrate the error easily
[04:53] <ajmitch> since apt-get probably broke
[04:53] <nixternal> true
[04:53] <ajmitch> and it could be downgraded 
[04:53] <Hobbsee> i'm sure dpkg should die, at some point
[04:53] <Hobbsee> that'd cause some fun
[04:54] <nixternal> lovely...stupid vbox
[04:55] <jmg> my box is an interesting upgrade case
[04:55] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: well I did have to edit a postinst recently to allow a package to be upgraded/downgraded/removed
[04:55] <jmg> 2x nvidia cards (agp, pci), customised gdm config
[04:55] <Hobbsee> sorry, more to the point, dpkg sould automatically segfault when doing anything.  that'd be fun.
[04:58] <nixternal> ajmitch: it worked here just fine
[04:58] <nixternal> even told me to run dpkg-reconfigure tzdata if I wish to change it
[05:00] <ajmitch> nixternal: thanks
[05:00] <ajmitch> so back to figuring out just what it is that broke
[05:03] <nixternal> no problem
[05:03] <nixternal> and that installed on both feisty and gutsy
[05:04] <nixternal> so that destroys my earlier logic
[05:04] <ajmitch> logic?
[05:11] <ajmitch> hm
[05:45] <jmg> ok, rebewt 
[05:45] <jmg> how fscked are we today! find out soon!
[06:03] <jmg> unsurprisingly upgrading to feisty goatowned my box
[06:03] <jmg> it failed to convert /home
[06:04] <jmg> from being mounted from /dev/sda4 to /dev/hde4
[06:08] <ajmitch> not using UUIDs in /etc/fstab?
[06:08] <StevenK> That should have happened on fresh install of Edgy or upgrading to Edgy.
[06:09] <jmg> ajmitch: i added it after upgrading to edgy
[06:09] <jmg> it wasnt converted on the feisty upgrade
[06:09] <StevenK> jmg: The Feisty upgrade doesn't do any conversion.
[06:09] <jmg> StevenK: why not?
[06:10] <StevenK> ... because it was done from Dapper to Edgy?
[06:10] <jmg> but it broke this config
[06:10] <Fujitsu> If you've manually modified it, it's probably assumed that you can fix it.
[06:11] <jmg> Fujitsu: which i did
[06:11] <Fujitsu> Standard configurations won't break like that.
[06:11] <jmg> Theres no functionality that i found to migrate /home to a new partition, so I had to do it manually. Then after upgrading I had to drop to single to fix fstab manually
[06:12] <persia> Perhaps a script could be shipped that would allow users following (older, non-Ubuntu) guides on editing /etc/fstab to automatically convert to a UUID-based format?
[06:12] <StevenK>  /lib/udev/vol_id or so spits out the UUID.
[06:15] <persia> `sudo vol_id /dev/hde4` in this case
[06:17] <ScottK> Fujitsu, persia, or StevenK: would one of you please have a look at Bug #117273?  It's the first sync I've done as a MOTU and subscribed the archive directly.  I'd appreciate a double check to make sure I got everything in the bug (no need to check if it's really a sync, I'm confident on that).
[06:17] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 117273 in python-numpy "Sync python-numpy 1:1.0.3-1 from Debian Unstable (Main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/117273
[06:17] <ScottK> Thanks
[06:17] <persia> ScottK: I like to specifically list the changes that can be overwritten, or otherwise make life very easy for the archive admin.
[06:18] <StevenK> I agree with persia.
[06:18] <Fujitsu> I got attacked a few times for not specifying them explicitly.
[06:18] <jmg> It's not clear what the UUID was or how it was generated. When I first saw it I nearly replaced it with /dev/blahs
[06:18] <ScottK> OK.  I'll add that.  Thanks.
[06:19] <Fujitsu> Also, you might want to consider using requestsync (in devscripts), which generates it all (except for the rationale for dropping Ubuntu changes, of course) automatically.
[06:19] <persia> ScottK: Just to clarify, you don't need to specify when it's in the Debian changelog (see bug 110346 for an example), but if not, the Rationale section should include further information.
[06:19] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 110346 in torcs "Please sync torcs 1.2.4-3 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/110346
[06:20] <LaserJock> requestsync actually works?
[06:21] <ajmitch> sometimes
[06:21] <LaserJock> I've never used it
[06:21] <persia> LaserJock: sometimes
[06:21] <ajmitch> I've had issues fetching changelogs though (problem on the debian side)
[06:21] <Fujitsu> I like it, but I often request syncs before the changelog appears on changelog.debian.net, so have to do them manually :(
[06:21] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: that does get annoying
[06:21] <Fujitsu> I wish it would be a little quicker with updating.
[06:21] <Hobbsee> assuming debian changelog sites actually work, tehn yes it does
[06:22] <persia> I usually process enough of the merge to determine I can sync (including testing) that it's easier just to paste to LP.
[06:22] <Hobbsee> the latest version is cool
[06:24] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: ouchy.
[06:24] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: what's it on?
[06:24] <Hobbsee> those things always suck
[06:24] <Fujitsu> I think I'm almost done; it wasn't meant to be a particularly big thing, just done over time.
[06:24] <ScottK> "King of procrastination" is a big title to be claiming.  Myself and two other people in my household are probably competitive for that title.
[06:25] <Fujitsu> I should probably find some lunch too...
[06:25] <Fujitsu> ScottK: Hah, I doubt it.
[06:25] <Hobbsee> ahh
[06:25] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i should find some breakfast.
[06:25] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: EAT!
[06:25] <Hobbsee> :P
[06:26] <ScottK> When I was in college I once did a semester programming project over a weekend during finals by staying awake for 48 hours straight because I'd procrastinated the whole project the entire semester.
[06:26] <Hobbsee> haha
[06:26] <Hobbsee> i faile dit, too
[06:26] <TheMuso> Hey folks.
[06:26] <TheMuso> Howd the MOTU meeting go?
[06:26] <ScottK> Hey TheMuso
[06:27] <ajmitch> TheMuso: terribly exciting
[06:27] <ajmitch> aka, I was barely awake
[06:27] <ScottK> Mine was Z80 assembler.  I quit to take a nap once I started hearing voices in the back of my head giving me programming advice.
[06:27] <TheMuso> Heh right.
[06:27] <ajmitch> ScottK: as long as they give the right advice, it's all good
[06:28] <persia> TheMuso: It went well.  Raw log is available from http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-meeting-2007-05-25.html
[06:28] <TheMuso> persia: Thanks, but generally the minutes are enough. If I can't wait, I'll read the log. :)
[06:28] <ScottK> Well that was the problem.  They were arguing back and forth between two solutions to a bug and neither one worked.
[06:36] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: was interesting.  i've got a suspicion that i'm supposed to be doing the minutes, so...
[06:37] <TheMuso> Hobbsee: Right.
[06:37] <persia> Yay!
[06:41] <ajmitch> TheMuso: because the rest of us are so slack?
[06:42] <Hobbsee> very much so
[06:42] <crimsun> do I need to do the minutes or something?
[06:42] <Hobbsee> crimsun: no, you'res uppsoed to be on holiday
[06:43] <crimsun> right, like I said, do I need to do the minutes or something? :-)
[06:43] <joejaxx> crimsun is on holiday? 
[06:43] <joejaxx> crimsun: congrats :P
[06:44] <crimsun> joejaxx: it's Memorial Day.
[06:44] <joejaxx> oh
[06:45] <joejaxx> interesting
[06:53] <jmg> seems to have broken my usb card reader as well
[06:53] <joejaxx> jmg: what are you running?
[06:53] <jmg> joejaxx: feisty now
[06:53] <jmg> just upgraded, to try and get my 2gb sd card to read
[06:54] <joejaxx> oh ok
[06:54] <joejaxx> i thought you were talking about gutsy
[06:54] <jmg> FATAL ERROR: Bad primary partition 0: Partition ends in the final partial cylind
[07:14] <persia> jmg: Try asking in #ubuntu - perhaps someone can point you in the right direction.
[07:14] <ScottK> Good night all.
[07:15] <RAOF> night!
[07:21] <jussi01> hello motu's!!
[07:21] <ajmitch> hello
[07:22] <jussi01> hi ajmitch 
[07:23] <persia> Hey jussi01.
[07:24] <jussi01> hello persia, hows that build machine?
[07:24] <jussi01> :P
[07:24] <persia> jussi01: Still doesn't build :(
[07:24] <jussi01> persia: maybe I should just bug ajmitch :P (grins evilly)
[07:25] <persia> jussi01: ajmitch is hard to bug, and can be wrathful.  Be careful :)
[07:25] <jussi01> hehe, ok... :P
[07:26] <jussi01> RAOF: you could just reveiw..... :D
[07:26] <StevenK> I would, except that it's my desktop machine. :-)
[07:26] <RAOF> jussi01: Not a MOTU :)
[07:26] <jussi01> oh...
[07:26] <LaserJock> StevenK: I figured out the reason gcompris built for you and I but not on the buildds
[07:26] <RAOF> Although I *could* review a bit, if you want to give a link.
[07:27] <LaserJock> StevenK: gnuchess was demoted to Universe, so if you pbuilder has Universe enabled it gets the dep fine
[07:27] <jussi01> well for all of you awake: mnemosyne http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5293
[07:28] <jussi01> Im heading out to have a shower etc and wake up, back in about 15....
[07:28] <StevenK> LaserJock: D'OH!
[07:29] <LaserJock> StevenK: yeah, it didn't even cross my mind
[07:29] <LaserJock> I'm too used to Universe
[07:29] <StevenK> I'm hoping sbuild will help me find those issues.
[07:29] <persia> StevenK: Just make sure to make separate sources, one for main and one for universe
[07:29] <StevenK> persia: Oh twitch, I can do that with pbuilder.
[07:30] <persia> StevenK: But do you really want to?
[07:30] <StevenK> I already have 6 chroots, I don't want 9.
[07:30] <persia> StevenK: 6?  Why?
[07:31] <minghua> with some Debian ones, I assume
[07:31] <StevenK> persia: {feisty,gutsy,sid}-{amd64,i386}
[07:33] <jmg> grr
[07:34] <persia> StevenK: Right.  So with sbuild, you maintain those 6 as separate LVMs, and mount snapshot chroots with `schroot -c sid-i386` when you want to investigate something, and use snapshot chroots with `sbuild -A -d gutsy-amd64 foo.dsc` when you want to build something.
[07:34] <persia> Oops, I guess you would need 8: one extra each for feisty-main and gutsy-main.
[07:35] <LaserJock> has anybody done any upgrade testing using pbuilder?
[07:36] <Hobbsee> i have, yeah
[07:36] <LaserJock> I'm working on semi-official TeX repo
[07:36] <LaserJock> and we need to work out a systematic testing scheme
[07:37] <jmg> grr
[07:37] <jmg> nobody in ubuntu has sufficient clue, and im not sure if there is already a bug filed, as i dont know what to look for or where to file it.
[07:37] <RAOF> jussi01: Does it really build-depend on all those python-foo packages (-qt3, etc)?
[07:37] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: how did it work?
[07:38] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: worked fine, except there were a couple of "dbus couldnt start" errors, iirc
[07:39] <RAOF> jussi01: You also *might* want to bump the build-depend on python-support up to 0.6, and use the new Python-depends stuff (see, for example, democracyplayer).  Although that will pretty much kill off backports, if you're concerned about that.
[07:55] <mpt> Could someone please reply to Val's message of May 18th in ubuntu-devel@ ("VQF plugin for XMMS")? Looks like a potential contributor, would be a shame if he/she went to waste :-)
[07:58] <crimsun> MOTU meeting minutes for 2007-05-25 posted at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings/2007-05-25
[08:01] <crimsun> mpt: sure, I moderated that one through.
[08:01] <crimsun> just haven't gotten around to responding yet
[08:04] <StevenK> Hrm.
[08:05] <StevenK> How to convince this KDE package that it really really doesn't want to ship .mo files...
[08:07] <Burgundavia> StevenK: run GNOME :)
[08:18] <mpt> thanks crimsun 
[08:40] <Hobbsee> crimsun: thanks
[08:40] <jussi01> and my connection is back... :D
[08:40] <RAOF> jussi01: Did you get my comments?
[08:41] <jussi01> RAOF: yes
[08:41] <jussi01> :D
[08:41] <jussi01> it does need all the qt3 and stuff...
[08:41] <RAOF> To build?  That sucks.
[08:41] <jussi01> yeah, weid huh
[08:43] <jussi01> anyway, I need to go to school.... bluegh school.....see yas all when I get back...
[08:44] <Fujitsu> Bye, jussi01.
[09:02] <RAOF> Hobbsee: Heh, that's a quite active thread :)
[09:03] <Hobbsee> RAOF: which?
[09:03] <RAOF> The "Knoppix is awesome" thread.
[09:03] <Hobbsee> ah right, yes
[09:03] <Hobbsee> you need a developer tag
[09:03] <RAOF> Which you just posted to, right below me :)
[09:03] <Hobbsee> yep
[09:04] <Hobbsee> oh, you posted while i was replying.  gotcha
[09:04] <RAOF> Maybe I do need a developer tag.  How does one come my such a thing?
[09:04] <Hobbsee> ask a forums mod
[09:04] <StevenK> One begs the forum admins, I think.
[09:04] <Hobbsee> jdong: etc
[09:15] <persia> Is it just me, or can gutsy not debootstrap a gutsy chroot today?
[09:54] <Lutin> ScottK: not really our fault, it's the diff3 output. we can't prevent it. (for the scapy merge)
[09:57] <persia> Lutin: Couldn't you parse it for only being the XSBC- bit?
[10:07] <Lutin> persia: dunno...not sure I'm good enough to do it :)
[10:07] <BugMaN> hi all
[10:08] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 113650 in dad "Does not handle SYNC candidates well" [Wishlist,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/113650
[10:09] <PDET> hello!
[10:09] <persia> PDET: Hello.
[10:10] <Lutin> persia: good luck with the code. evil piece of crap at some points :] 
[10:10] <persia> Lutin: Any specific section that I should be looking at?
[10:11] <Lutin> persia: the genpatches function
[10:12] <Lutin> persia: thanks for looking into that. I have exams now and then will be away for 6 weeks, so I won't have the time to work on it
[10:12] <persia> Lutin: No promises.  I've a few things on my list, so if I don't see something quickly, I'll probably drop it :)  Good luck on your exams.
[10:13] <Lutin> persia: np :). thanks
[10:17] <persia> Lutin: I need to check the syntax, but I would think that http://pastebin.ca/515567 would take care of much of it, assuming that DaD will later do the maintainer thing.
[10:19] <persia> No, the syntax is completely wrong.
[10:34] <persia> doko: I wanted to ask you about setting DEBIAN_WX_DEFAULT_VERSION to 2.8 in the wxwidgets2.6 package.  What is the intended effect of this change?
[10:35] <doko> persia: read the comment above that line
[10:38] <StevenK> Can anyone think of a package that needs to play with admin/cvs.sh to get a .pot file and uses CDBS?
[10:39] <imbrandon> amarok iirc
[10:39] <persia> doko: That comment leads me to believe that wx2.8 is expected to provide the tools to process the wx2.6 headers.  What I don't understand is what this is supposed to do for wxwidgets2.6.  I've had trouble installing the wx2.6 binaries with the new changes, and I'm concerned as many packages don't build with 2.8.
[10:39] <imbrandon> StevenK, ^
[10:40] <imbrandon> StevenK, most older* kde apps do
[10:40] <imbrandon> if i rember right
[10:40] <StevenK> imbrandon: Okay, how about one that doesn't have 15Mb of source? :-)
[10:40] <imbrandon> heh ktorrent possibly
[10:40] <imbrandon> like i said most older kdeapps
[10:41] <StevenK> Hrm. I thought ktorrent 2.2 final was out.
[10:41] <StevenK> I wonder if it leaks memory like a sieve.
[10:41] <doko> persia: then you have to change these packages to explicitely use the 2.6 tools
[10:43] <persia> doko: So rather than just explicitly depending on the 2.6 development libraries, the packages' build systems must be patched to use the 2.6 tools?
[10:46] <doko> persia: what problem are you trying to solve?
[10:49] <persia> doko: Generally, I've been working to port all the wx2.4 packages to wx2.6 so that wx2.4 may be dropped from both Debian and Ubuntu.  The specific problem that led me to contact you was that aptitude complained when I tried to install the updated wx2.6 libraries and tools, but the change to the package was small (and not something I understood well), which left me confused about the cause.
[10:53] <doko> persia: if some package cannot be installed, it's a bug, and should be reported
[10:54] <persia> doko: OK.  I'll chase the installation failure and fix it.  I just wasn't sure if some of the binaries built by wx2.6 were now deprecated and should not be installed.  Thanks a lot.
[11:38] <sacater> crimsun: ty
[12:38] <Fujitsu> StevenK: What's it doing on there?
[12:49] <StevenK> Fujitsu: Installed, or running?
[12:49] <Fujitsu> Either.
[12:49] <StevenK> Two words. Rational Rose
[12:50] <StevenK> If you don't know what that is, consider yourself lucky.
[12:52] <Fujitsu> I shall consider myself lucky, then.
[12:52] <StevenK> Heh
[12:57] <Fujitsu> Hah, poppler doesn't make sense.
[12:58] <StevenK> Sure it does.
[12:58] <StevenK> The new upload helpfully renamed some packages which haven't cleared binary NEW yet. When they do, other things will need a rebuild.
[01:01] <StevenK> And there's another problem caused by NBS.
[01:02] <StevenK> Hah!
[01:02] <StevenK> texlive-common: Conflicts: texlive-pdfetex
[01:02] <fernando> moin all
[01:02] <StevenK> Except that texlive-context Depends on both texlive-common and texlive-pdfetex
[01:03] <zorglu_> q. anybody aware of a channel where apt-get dev hang around ?
[01:20] <bmm> Hi everybody. I'm looking for comments or an advocation on ccbuild: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5295
[01:20] <bmm> Thanks in advance
[01:22] <\sh> moins
[01:23] <ryanakca> can a MOTU look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5307 please
[01:29] <geser> zorglu_: ask mvo as he did all the last apt uploads. you find him in #ubuntu-devel on workdays
[01:30] <zorglu_> geser: thanks
[02:11] <xxxxx1> morning people
[02:14] <soc> hi
[02:14] <soc> i have a problem with ckeckinstall
[02:14] <soc> if i do a traditional ./configure &&make && sudo make install everything works
[02:15] <soc> if i do a sudo checkinstall it builds a package including "gcc", "ld", "nm", "strip"
[02:15] <soc> and of course it fails to install the package
[02:16] <imbrandon> soc, well we dont do support in here and definately not for checkinstall, we promote proper packaging
[02:16] <imbrandon> or try to
[02:16] <soc> mh ok
[02:16] <soc> thought that would be a bug if checkinstall builds packages whcih want to remove binutils ...
[02:17] <Fujitsu> checkinstall does crazy stuff, which is why it is forbidden here.
[02:17] <imbrandon> sure, feel free to file a bug
[02:17] <soc> is there a suggested tutorial anywhere?
[02:17] <imbrandon> !package guide
[02:17] <ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources - See also !backports
[02:17] <soc> ok thanks
[02:18] <soc> i will look that up, even if i think checkinstall was quite good if you had to build a package fast ...
[02:18] <imbrandon> :)
[02:18] <\sh> checkinstall is crap
[02:18] <imbrandon> is what your looking for not in the archive?
[02:19] <Fujitsu> \sh: There I have to agree with you.
[02:19] <soc> i'm packaging gimp 2.3 since 2.3.12 or so
[02:20] <\sh> hmmm? gimp is in the archives
[02:20] <soc> would be quite sad if that wouldn't be possible anymore
[02:20] <\sh> since warty
[02:20] <soc> yes gim 2.2
[02:20] <soc> gimp 2.2
[02:20] <imbrandon> gimp surely is in the archive, you could just update the existing package with few modifications probably
[02:20] <Fujitsu> Then you should update an existing package.
[02:20] <Fujitsu> Not use checkinstall.
[02:20] <Fujitsu> checkinstall is an absolute last resort.
[02:20] <soc> gimp 2.3 are the current developer releases
[02:21] <soc> mhh
[02:21] <soc> ok
[02:21] <\sh> easiest way to install gimp from source is ./configure --prefix=/opt/gimp2.3/ ; make ; make install and when you don't need it, just make uninstall....autofoo is very good in uninstalling
[02:21] <soc> in feisty it's 2.2
[02:21] <Fujitsu> So update the existing packages. It's a whole lot easier and more reliable.
[02:21] <StevenK>       gimp | 2.3.16-1ubuntu1 |         gutsy | amd64, i386
[02:21] <soc> yeah just saw that too
[02:21] <soc> current is 2.3.17 ...
[02:21] <StevenK> Well, geez, give us a break. :-)
[02:21] <soc> have to check if it's installable on feisty
[02:21] <\sh> soc, so what? update the package
[02:21] <Fujitsu> Oh no, 0.0.1 behind.
[02:22] <\sh> soc, you have to make a backport...
[02:22] <imbrandon> hey hey hey , chill guys , he dident know, he does now
[02:22] <\sh> soc, downling the  source package from gutsy, and pbuilding it on feisty
[02:22] <\sh> with a different version string, like ~mygimp1
[02:22] <StevenK> imbrandon: I am chilled. It's freezing here. :-)
[02:22] <imbrandon> heh
[02:22] <soc> yeah ok
[02:23] <soc> is there a man available for pbuild?
[02:23] <\sh> so you don't break your feisty for the future update to gutsy
[02:23] <Fujitsu> StevenK: That was only a couple of years ago.
[02:23] <soc> yes
[02:23] <soc> currently it goes to gimp-2.3
[02:23] <\sh> w.u.c/PbuilderHowTO
[02:23] <\sh> w.u.c/PbuilderHowTo
[02:23] <soc> works quite well ...
[02:23] <StevenK> Fujitsu: Well aware.
[02:23] <soc> ok found it
[02:23] <soc> chapter 2
[02:23] <StevenK> Hrm. I think I can recall Gimp 1.0, too.
[02:24] <imbrandon> i rember Photoshop 3 also :)
[02:24] <imbrandon> poor poor soul
[02:24] <imbrandon> i pitty you like those that have never used linux
[02:24] <imbrandon> :)
[02:25] <soc> mhh
[02:25] <StevenK> Why would I want to use Photoshop? Gimp does everything (which, admitedly isn't much) I need.
[02:25] <soc> would it be possible to just unpack the gutsy deb, change the name to gimp-2.3 and pack it?
[02:25] <imbrandon> soc something like that but not really exactly
[02:26] <soc> mh ok
[02:26] <imbrandon> you grab the source of the deb, replace the orig tar , make a changelog entry and hope it builds
[02:26] <imbrandon> thats best case
[02:26] <soc> so i'll better get the source from gimp.org and build it properly with the tutorial ...
[02:26] <imbrandon> no thats not what i said
[02:26] <imbrandon> heh
[02:26] <imbrandon> you grab the source of the deb, replace the orig tar , make a changelog entry and hope it builds
[02:27] <imbrandon> e.g very quick dirty tutoral here .....
[02:27] <soc> yeah but thats the old one ...
[02:27] <soc> :-)
[02:27] <imbrandon> mkdir ~/new-gimp
[02:27] <imbrandon> cd ~/new-gimp
[02:27] <soc> i have 2.3.16 since 4 weeks already ...
[02:27] <imbrandon> apt-get source gimp
[02:27] <imbrandon> download the tar from gimp.org
[02:27] <soc> and 2.3.17 is not in gutsy ...
[02:27] <imbrandon> replace the exiting gimp tar
[02:28] <soc> taht sounds cool :-)
[02:28] <imbrandon> make a changelog entry
[02:28] <imbrandon> debuild -us -uc
[02:28] <imbrandon> pray
[02:28] <soc> thx ...
[02:28] <soc> ill report back :-)
[02:29] <soc> is it that bad?
[02:30] <imbrandon> well there are lots of other little things that would make it better
[02:30] <imbrandon> but i ahve not the time and you dont seem to have the patients atm
[02:30] <imbrandon> :)
[02:30] <soc> mh ok
[02:30] <soc> ok question: in gutsy gimp is splitted up in at least gimp, gimp-data, gimp-data-extra ...
[02:30] <soc> will that be a problem?
[02:31] <imbrandon> no that source package will recreate those debs
[02:31] <imbrandon> when built
[02:31] <soc>  Source Package: gimp, Download: [dsc]  [gimp_2.3.16.orig.tar.gz]  [gimp_2.3.16-1ubuntu2.diff.gz]   
[02:31] <soc> i will have to take gimp_2.3.16.orig.tar.gz?
[02:32] <imbrandon> and replace it with the gimp_2.3.17.orig.tar.gz from gimp.org
[02:32] <soc> ah ok...
[02:33] <soc> will i need gimp-data too?
[02:33] <imbrandon> as i said it will make thst from the source package
[02:33] <imbrandon> rember your jumping in head first with no documetation reading
[02:33] <imbrandon> brb\
[02:34] <soc> i'm just reading it!!!!
[02:35] <soc> :-)
[02:39] <elkbuntu> Hobbsee, you log irc, right?
[02:40] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: yes
[02:40] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: which part were you wanting?  is it already in fabbione's logs?
[02:40] <elkbuntu> Hobbsee, no, see pm in a sec
[02:45] <Hobbsee> hi all
[02:45] <xxxxx1> hello Hobbsee 
[02:45] <geser> Hi Hobbsee
[02:46] <Hobbsee> :)
[02:47] <elkbuntu> \sh, pray tell, why are you advertising sex toys on the planet?
[02:47] <StevenK> Ohhh, how the hell did I miss that!?
[02:47] <\sh> elkbuntu, advertising? nope...
[02:48] <StevenK> Hah
[02:48] <\sh> elkbuntu, it's more a gadget for people with an ipod ,-)
[02:48] <elkbuntu> \sh, it's damn well near an advertisement. either way something of such a sexual nature is *not* family-friendly
[02:48] <Hobbsee> StevenK: dont get too excited, there :P
[02:48] <Hobbsee> StevenK: shipping to au would take a while :P
[02:48] <\sh> elkbuntu, it was on golem.de and on several "familiy friendly" pages
[02:49] <StevenK> It starts with a lowercase i. It would take a blue pill for me to get excited over that.
[02:49] <elkbuntu> \sh, if someone was to link to your blog in an Ubuntu channel, i'd ban them for adult content
[02:49] <\sh> elkbuntu, please do what ever you want...
[02:50] <\sh> elkbuntu, please...
[02:50] <\sh> elkbuntu, do...
[02:50] <highvoltage> oh, I skipped that post
[02:51] <\sh> elkbuntu, btw...in germany it's normal that you learn about those things in primary school...
[02:51] <\sh> elkbuntu, officially by the teachers...
[02:51] <elkbuntu> \sh, let me introduce you to the world *outside* germany
[02:51] <elkbuntu> the part of the world that the internet reaches.
[02:51] <\sh> elkbuntu, yeah, niminy-piminiy...and far away from freedom, thx
[02:52] <pschulz01> Good evening all.
[02:52] <imbrandon> children , stop please
[02:52] <StevenK> imbrandon beat me to it.
[02:52] <\sh> elkbuntu, in japan it's a funny thing as well, you can buy some other hard stuff there, even where children are around...but please do what ever you want
[02:52] <imbrandon> and elkbuntu fwiw it was/is on MANY family friendly sites
[02:53] <elkbuntu> imbrandon, that doesnt make it right for here.
[02:53] <StevenK> Just because they stoop to that level doesn't mean we have to.
[02:53] <pschulz01> I have uploaded a package to REVU.. libtprl(1|-dev)  should it just appear in the list?
[02:53] <highvoltage> \sh: I think you should make a category for posts that you want to see on planet ubuntu (perhaps an ubuntu one), and then just put a feed for that on planet
[02:54] <elkbuntu> i agree with highvoltage. this isnt the first time you've been inappropriate in your blogging.
[02:54] <highvoltage> fwiw, what goes on planet atm seems to be a touchy issue. I think it's just appropriate to respect others until the planet policies settle down a bit.
[02:54] <Hobbsee> "sexy lady from au" and all...
[02:54] <persia> pschulz01: It appears after a while (I think it takes 5 or maybe 15 minutes).  If it doesn't, check your .upload file.
[02:55] <\sh> elkbuntu, do me a favour, go with your morality to the CC...and ask them what's inapropriate to blog about an IT gadget...regarding it was about apple not being amused..anyways, welcome to the real world
[02:55] <imbrandon> children , even if its not approperate on planet dosent mean it is in here either :)
[02:55] <elkbuntu> Hobbsee, yeah. i'm still hearing 'i'll never go near the Ubuntu Developer community after seeing that post' stuff :(
[02:55] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: ouch :(
[02:55] <RainCT> Hi
[02:55] <pschulz01> persia: Ta.. I fixed 4 lintian errors. (The lintian report is rather boring now :-)
[02:56] <RainCT> is it save to replace on all deb-src feisty with gutsy on sources.list?
[02:56] <persia> pschulz01: boring is good :)
[02:56] <highvoltage> elkbuntu: :(
[02:56] <persia> RainCT: It depends on what you mean by safe.  gutsy is still rather unstable, but several people use it.
[02:56] <StevenK> elkbuntu: Ugh.
[02:56] <StevenK> persia: *deb-src*
[02:56] <imbrandon> brb
[02:57] <persia> RainCT: Nevermind.  Yes.
[02:57] <persia> StevenK: Thanks - you're the best sight correction system I've every had :)
[02:57] <RainCT> persia: ok thx
[02:58] <StevenK> I don't know if I should be afronted or complimented. :-)
[02:58] <pschulz01> persia: At the end of the 'dput REVU <package>.changes' command it says.. 'Not running dinstall'. Is this a problem?
[02:58] <StevenK> pschulz01: No, that's normal.
[02:58] <persia> pschulz01: No.
[02:59] <pschulz01> :-) :-)
[02:59] <StevenK> I can explain the history of that, if anyone cares.
[02:59] <imbrandon> sure
[02:59] <imbrandon> brb coffeebreak
[02:59] <RainCT> persia: well, were the changes in the debdiff for dosbox ok or didn't you look at them?
[02:59] <persia> RainCT: see my comment on the bug
[03:00] <StevenK> Okay, so back in the dim dark ages, even before dak existed, packages used to be uploaded to ftp-master.debian.org via scp.
[03:00] <RainCT> persia: yes I've seen it
[03:00] <StevenK> The install script then was called dinstall, which was Perl, and buggy as hell. However, it had a -n switch that a developer could use to a degree of certainity if their package was going to be accepted or rejected.
[03:01] <StevenK> So, dput has a setting where it will automatically ssh in and run dinstall -n over the just-uploaded .changes. That option has been useless for the past 2 or so years, though.
[03:02] <StevenK> Okay, story-time's over. Get back to work!
[03:03] <StevenK> persia: And I would never describe myself as 'wise'.
[03:03] <pschulz01> StevenK: Thanks :-)
[03:07] <StevenK> elkbuntu: Although, just thinking about "'i'll never go near the  Ubuntu Developer community after seeing that post'
[03:08] <StevenK> " - it seems very zero tolerance ...
[03:08] <elkbuntu> StevenK, yeah. welcome to what it is like being in linuxchix as a known representer of the Ubuntu community
[03:08] <StevenK> Wonderful.
[03:08] <Hobbsee> StevenK: would you really go into a community where posts like that illustrate that they'll never take you seriously, and just have a go at you?
[03:09] <elkbuntu> ^^
[03:09] <pschulz01> persia: I'm still concerned that my packages aren't getting the REVU
[03:09] <StevenK> But why tar all of us with the same brush?
[03:09] <Hobbsee> StevenK: going "if that's how they treat others, that's probably also how they'll treat me"
[03:09] <StevenK> Hobbsee: But \sh is not all of us.
[03:10] <shawarma> StevenK: Which post is that quote referring to?
[03:10] <Hobbsee> StevenK: because by posting to planet, you're a representative of the ubuntu community.   a high one, to have such access.
[03:10] <elkbuntu> StevenK, it only takes one person to **** things up
[03:10] <persia> pschulz01: Aren't getting REVU'd, or aren't getting to REVU?
[03:10] <StevenK> elkbuntu: I see that. Sigh.
[03:10] <StevenK> shawarma: Further up, I'm quoting elkbuntu.
[03:10] <pschulz01> persia: Arn't getting to REVU.. (first step)
[03:10] <persia> pschulz01: I can't really help with that.  Sorry.
[03:11] <persia> Could anyone else help pschulz01 troubleshoot failed REVU uploads?
[03:11] <StevenK> elkbuntu: So now those people are effectively lost to us, as it were?
[03:11] <elkbuntu> StevenK, basically
[03:12] <elkbuntu> StevenK, i'm doing my best to try repair damage and bridge communication, but every time something like this happens it's a kick in the face to me and my efforts
[03:12] <Fujitsu> pschulz01: Which package?
[03:12] <StevenK> elkbuntu: Yes.
[03:12] <elkbuntu> StevenK, and at those times, i understand why they keep away
[03:12] <pschulz01> Fujitsu: libtprl
[03:12] <imbrandon> afk , driving home
[03:12] <Fujitsu> pschulz01: You need to debuild -S (for a source-only upload)
[03:13] <RainCT> persia: well I've to go, will be back in 2:30 hours and do the new debdiff then, cya
[03:13] <pschulz01> Fujitsu: Oh. Thanks..
[03:13] <persia> RainCT: OK.  Great.  Thanks.
[03:13] <\sh> elkbuntu, I'll help you to get rid of me, ok?
[03:14] <\sh> elkbuntu, you are free to do some real work for ubuntu, like packaging and doing other things..
[03:14] <pschulz01> Fujitsu: Is this a replacement for 'dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot' ?
[03:14] <StevenK> But that isn't what she's saying at all!
[03:14] <elkbuntu> \sh, i dont want to get rid of you, i just want you to be respectful to other people's feelings
[03:14] <Fujitsu> pschulz01: It's a wrapper around it, yes.
[03:14] <elkbuntu> and believe it or not, \sh, what i am doing *IS* real work
[03:15] <\sh> elkbuntu, I'm respectful to free speech and my right to write and speak about what I think it's important for other people to know
[03:15] <elkbuntu> \sh, speak it, i dont begrudge you this, just please speak it in appropriate places
[03:15] <elkbuntu> planet.ubuntu.com is *not* the appropriate place to discuss sex toys
[03:16] <\sh> elkbuntu, that is what you see, sex toys? I see, Apple is sueing a company because of a good advert campaigne
[03:16] <elkbuntu> \sh, i see both, but i also hear people complaining about the sexual nature of it
[03:17] <\sh> elkbuntu, well, please read my comments on the blog..there is only one, who complained, and others who are against that something like this won't be published anywhere
[03:17] <\sh> elkbuntu, and funny, it was a germany guy
[03:17] <elkbuntu> \sh, and funny it was a guy who initially brought the inappropriateness to my attention
[03:17] <pschulz01> Fujitsu: Hmm ... running debsign failed.. but I can run debsign by hand on the 'dsc' file and it work OK.
[03:18] <Fujitsu> pschulz01: It will sometimes do that, due to a strange interaction with the agent.
[03:18] <\sh> elkbuntu, and? he is able to talk to me or write emails or whatever, what has you to do with it? 
[03:18] <Fujitsu> Anyway, I should be off to bed now.
[03:18] <pschulz01> Fujitsu: before you go..
[03:18] <Fujitsu> pschulz01: You may have to get a REVU admin to remove your existing upload from the server, but you can try anyway.
[03:18] <pschulz01> Fujitsu: dput again?
[03:18] <elkbuntu> \sh, maybe he doesnt want to be treated like you have treated me this evening?
[03:19] <Fujitsu> It might fail, due to the existing files, but it might not.
[03:19] <pschulz01> I'll 'up' the revision and try again.
[03:19] <Fujitsu> Argh, no.
[03:19] <pschulz01> no?
[03:19] <Fujitsu> Should be kept at 0ubuntu1 until it is uploaded.
[03:19] <\sh> elkbuntu, wait...you started to ask me about one article...I explained, that it isn't a sexual toy which I was writing about...you don't understand...
[03:20] <pschulz01> maybe that's my problem.. currently at -2
[03:20] <\sh> elkbuntu, please, I'm 36 years old, I think I can decide what is apropriate and what not..
[03:20] <Fujitsu> That's not the problem, but you should be using -0ubuntu1
[03:20] <pschulz01> Ok.
[03:21] <iceman> I think the sextoy news was fun. Have you seen the video, \sh ? http://softparis.typepad.com/annelolotte/2007/02/sexy_vibes.html
[03:21] <\sh> elkbuntu, and I think I can decide which is family friendly and what not, just because I have a child, and you?
[03:21] <Hobbsee> \sh: you're showing that you arent, though.
[03:21] <elkbuntu> \sh, you decide for you, and you alone. You do not decide for other people what they find appropriate. Do not restrict other people's freedom of expression, freedom to feel safe and freedom to feel comfortable in the Ubuntu community.
[03:22] <\sh> elkbuntu, but you can?
[03:23] <pschulz01> Fujitsu: Thanks.. I'll see of that works
[03:23] <Hobbsee> somehow, i think if i killed the customers from hell, i think the police would have something to say...
[03:23] <elkbuntu> \sh, im not telling you to not blog it. i'm just requesting that you keep it to appropriate places to preserve everyone else's respect for, and comfort in, the community
[03:23] <StevenK> And it won't be "Well done! He really was annoying, wasn't he?"
[03:24] <Hobbsee> heh
[03:24] <Hobbsee> i'm not sure how showing objectionable content like that is respectful...
[03:25] <\sh> Hobbsee, if you don't know what it was, wouldn't you recognize something sexual behind it?
[03:25] <\sh> Hobbsee, honestly
[03:25] <iceman> ... puritanism is a plague
[03:26] <Hobbsee> \sh: the fact that you'd be giving one to your wife on your wedding day kinda gives it away - even if you dont know the specifics of it being a sex toy.
[03:26] <Hobbsee> s/day/night/
[03:27] <\sh> Hobbsee, so, it could be something else...but what makes it a sex toy? the imagination of the people who knows already what it is...
[03:27] <\sh> anyways..
[03:27] <iceman> \sh: if you're contemplating buying one, consider that one, too http://www.sextoyer.com/index.php/2006/08/04/24-oh-my-bod-il-est-bizard-ton-ipod
[03:27] <zul_> and this is off topic
[03:28] <iceman> http://www.ohmibod.com/
[03:28] <Hobbsee> there's no point in reasoning with you, if you're not listening.
[03:29] <\sh> iceman, please stop...
[03:29] <Fujitsu> pschulz01: It worked.
[03:29] <Hobbsee> \sh: why?  it's his right to free speech, remember?
[03:29] <\sh> iceman, it's a discussion between people who are working for one project...
[03:29] <Hobbsee> after all, you dont have to care about anyone else when it's free speech you're talking about
[03:29] <\sh> Hobbsee, I said, please, I don't force him to stop.
[03:29] <Hobbsee> wasnt that what you were saying before?
[03:30] <pschulz01> Fujitsu: Yes:-) I suppose it helps when I upload the source properly.
[03:30] <Hobbsee> \sh: you know that multiple people have found it offensive, you've been warned before, yet you dont listen.  There's no point in continuing this discussion, unless you wish to further illustrate that you dont care about, nor respect other people
[03:31] <\sh> Hobbsee, what I said was, that I'm able to decide what is interesting and importing to blog. and that I know what is inapropriate or not to blog about. nothing in my article was sexual not even meant
[03:31] <Fujitsu> pschulz01: Yep. It also helped that you used the wrong version number to start with, or it would have failed to upload again unless you got the files removed from the server.
[03:31] <PriceChild> blog != planet and how was that not sexual?
[03:31] <pschulz01> Fujitsu: linda is complaining about that as well.
[03:32] <JanC> let's say it wasn't explicitly sexual...
[03:32] <PriceChild> its a sex toy!
[03:32] <\sh> elkbuntu, Hobbsee: why didn't somebody removed my blog from the planet then?
[03:32] <persia> PriceChild: Did you ever hear back from Tim about the script licenses?
[03:32] <Hobbsee> \sh: because you posted on a bank holiday, where everyone was away.
[03:32] <elkbuntu> \sh, may day in britain yeserday
[03:32] <PriceChild> persia, I think he's still on holiday :(
[03:32] <elkbuntu> or something like that
[03:32] <Hobbsee> so canonical sysadmins arent at work
[03:32] <PriceChild> persia, moment i get a reply I'll be bugging you for an advocation ;)
[03:32] <pschulz01> Fujitsu: I have another 7 to do.. 
[03:33] <persia> PriceChild: Ah.  I thought he was getting back for this weekend.  Thanks.
[03:33] <Fujitsu> pschulz01: What are they all?
[03:33] <\sh> Hobbsee, elkbuntu : I think, canonical DC has duty services
[03:33] <persia> PriceChild: :)
[03:33] <\sh> Hobbsee, elkbuntu like every good company
[03:33] <PriceChild> persia, I hoped so too :) I'm "poised"
[03:33] <Hobbsee> \sh: as for documented...
[03:33] <pschulz01> Fujitsu: Thousand Parsec (tp) - game engine
[03:33] <Fujitsu> Aha.
[03:34] <Fujitsu> ANyway, I must be off to bed now.
[03:34] <pschulz01> Night :-)
[03:38] <\sh> ok guys, (and girls)....this was it, for ever :) 
[03:38] <\sh> thx for a great time working on ubuntu
[03:38] <\sh> hope you succeed...with better people then me...
[03:38] <\sh> thx to elkubuntu for really pissing me off...
[03:48] <JanC> \sh: maybe it's easier to just leave such articles from the planet in the future, not because you offended many community people, but because they are affraid of how outsiders will look at this (e.g. some parents checking out Edubuntu might get offended)
[03:49] <JanC> and I don't think the content of that post is really worth the fight...
[03:49] <\sh> JanC, I made my decision....
[03:50] <\sh> JanC, I'm not a member of ubuntu anymore
[03:50] <JanC> just because you don't agree & get along with some other Ubuntu members?
[03:51] <Baby> \sh: you'Re leaving ubuntu just because you shouldn't puclish there about sex toys?
[03:51] <Baby> publish even
[03:53] <\sh> JanC, I wrote my last article...and sadly it was posted to p.u.c.
[03:53] <\sh> Baby, nope
[03:54] <\sh> Baby, I don't like pharisee
[03:57] <Baby> \sh: I'm not sure about what you mean by "I don't like pharisee", but you mean people are being hypocrital or something about not liking that kind of posts in planet? I don't exactly understand what you mean
[04:00] <highvoltage> \sh: I don't think you should leav Ubuntu, I don't think anyone wants that
[04:00] <\sh> highvoltage, it's already done...
[04:02] <highvoltage> \sh: why not take at least a day just to think about it?
[04:02] <highvoltage> \sh: why not take at least a day just to think about it/win 33
[04:03] <Baby> i guess highvoltage is right, you shouldn't just leave in the heat of the moment
[04:03] <\sh> highvoltage, nope...
[04:04] <leonel> hello  motus !  good  week !
[04:05] <persia> Hello leonel
[04:05] <leonel> ea  persia 
[04:06] <highvoltage> hey leonel
[04:08] <Baby> well, \sh , if you're leaving ubuntu just because of this, then it wasn't that important to you, you would have left anyway sooner or later
[04:09] <persia> OK.  Enough.  There was some cultural dissonance that lead to some actions.  Read about it later.  discuss it somewhere else.  Have a good $timeofday.
[04:10] <\sh> Baby, the problem is different...and no, I wouldn't leave a project, just because youngones are going bang bang
[04:10] <Baby> then it seems it's me who's not understanding the problem
[04:11] <\sh> Baby, are you at linuxtag with fsf?
[04:11] <Baby> I'll probably be there on friday and saturday
[04:11] <Baby> not sure yet, doesn't only depend on me
[04:12] <\sh> Baby, then let's have a cup of coffee .)
[04:12] <Baby> cool :)
[04:12] <\sh> Baby, I'll be at kubuntu booth, fai booth or lpi booth depends which needs my attention :)
[04:13] <Baby> If I'm finally able to go I'll let you know, I'll probably know for sure tomorrow :)
[04:13] <\sh> Baby, you know how I look like :) 
[04:14] <Baby> yup :)
[04:21] <jsgotangco> err did i just see stephan remove himself in ubuntumembers?
[04:21] <azeem> 16:00 < highvoltage> \sh: I don't think you should leav Ubuntu, I don't think anyone wants that
[04:21] <azeem> 16:00 < \sh> highvoltage, it's already done...
[04:21] <jsgotangco> shesshh
[04:22] <jsgotangco> i just read all the logs
[04:22] <highvoltage> jsgotangco: he's unhappy because there were some objections about his blog content on planet ubuntu
[04:22] <jsgotangco> and the lp notification as well
[04:22] <highvoltage> jsgotangco: ah ok.
[04:22] <highvoltage> jsgotangco: a mail has been sent to CC, you should probably have it by now
[04:23] <jsgotangco> highvoltage: yeah i've read it that's why i came (i was about to sleep)
[04:23] <jsgotangco> then i got an lp notify
[04:23] <highvoltage> I think it's an issue that got a bit out of hand.
[04:24] <afflux> Is the mail publicly visible? 
[04:24] <highvoltage> Hobbsee and elkbuntu merely meant to explain to him that some people are offended by his content, and that he should consider what he posts there first. and from there it got a bit emotional and intense.
[04:25] <jsgotangco> i actually saw the said blog post but didn't read much of it in detail but i thought it was a bit well...not appropriate but then other plants have all these things flying around sometimes
[04:25] <elkbuntu> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PlanetUbuntu
[04:26] <elkbuntu> "We reserve the right to remove any feed that is inaccessible, flooding the page, or otherwise interfering with the operation of the Planet. We also have the right to move clearly offensive content or content that could trigger legal action."
[04:26] <highvoltage> jsgotangco: I also mostly skipped over it, I don't read every post on planet, I just get the headings in my RSS fead reader and read what seems interesting
[04:27] <jsgotangco> highvoltage: same here
[04:27] <\sh> elkbuntu, since when it is approved by CC?
[04:27] <\sh> elkbuntu, i never read anything about it...but that's another case...
[04:28] <elkbuntu> \sh, IANAL, but if i understand how ToS statements go, you agreed to those conditions when you put your planet on blog
[04:28] <elkbuntu> s/planet on blog/blog on planet/
[04:28] <\sh> elkbuntu, gal, I'm longer then you on this planet...and this page is new...since the last censorship
[04:29] <\sh> elkbuntu, but sorry that you don't have any clue...
[04:29] <DarkSun88> Hi all
[04:29] <\sh> elkbuntu, oh...sorry, I'm not bound to the CoC anymore :)
[04:30] <jsgotangco> ok
[04:30] <jsgotangco> let's not extend this further
[04:30] <\sh> so...if somebody needs some information about wine packages, you can query...
[04:30] <\sh> I'm out...
[04:30] <Hobbsee> \sh: you are by being in any ubuntu related channel still, i believe
[04:30] <Hobbsee> Seveas: could clarify that.
[04:30] <\sh> Hobbsee, for what? I'm leaving :)
[04:31] <Hobbsee> bye then.
[04:31] <jsgotangco> gahh
[04:32] <highvoltage> *sigh*. why does \sh have to be such a girl.
[04:32] <highvoltage> oops.
[04:32] <elkbuntu> sorry it came to this, everyone.
[04:32] <highvoltage> /clear
[04:32] <Seveas> highvoltage, ;)
[04:32] <elkbuntu> highvoltage, that doesnt work on us, unfortunately
[04:32] <apacheLAGger> elkbuntu: what doesnt work on us?
[04:33] <Seveas> apacheLAGger, the /clear to hide the bad joke :)
[04:33] <highvoltage> elkbuntu: sorry, my little joke is probably way out of place now.
[04:33] <apacheLAGger> Seveas: I don't see any joke, nor do I see a /clear 
[04:33] <apacheLAGger> ;-)
[04:33] <persia> In order to prevent this type of traffic in this channel, I'd like to recommend that someone draft significant expansion of "clearly offensive content" such that it not be subject to cultural dissonance.  It might not work, but it's probably still worth it.
[04:33] <elkbuntu> apacheLAGger, /clear doesnt /clear our clients or short-term memories ;)
[04:33] <highvoltage> elkbuntu: I don't think you have to apologise for what happened. \sh didn't try hard to be accomodating.
[04:34] <apacheLAGger> elkbuntu: oh, does for me :S
[04:34] <elkbuntu> apacheLAGger, not when highvoltage does it though
[04:34] <Seveas> tonyyarusso, the men in black have a real-life /clear
[04:34] <apacheLAGger> on the other hand I don't have short-term memory anyway
[04:34] <ogra-classmate> highvoltage: well, diplomacy would have been great from both sides here
[04:34] <jsgotangco> ok
[04:34] <elkbuntu> highvoltage, i dont apologise for speaking up, at all, i am sorry for how the event unfolded
[04:34] <ogra-classmate> the topic wasnt worth the outcome at all
[04:35] <ogra-classmate> for all swides
[04:35] <ogra-classmate> *sides
[04:35] <elkbuntu> ogra-classmate, honestly, i am disappointed at myself as well
[04:35] <Baby> in fact, i think it was positive to clarify the situation instead of ignoring it and doing as if the post didn't exist
[04:36] <Seveas> elkbuntu, I'm not
[04:36] <Seveas> I'm disappointed at how \sh (over)reacted
[04:36] <elkbuntu> Seveas, i could have been far more tactful
[04:37] <tonyyarusso> elkbuntu: how?
[04:37] <Baby> i guess it's just the heat of the situation
[04:37] <elkbuntu> Seveas, i am disappointed at that as well, but it does not negate that i started so aggressively
[04:37] <highvoltage> \sh quit from ubuntu once before, I have a feeling he'll be back though
[04:37] <Baby> yup, of course he'll be back :)
[04:38] <ogra-classmate> he will
[04:38] <elkbuntu> highvoltage, i'll be waiting for round 3
[04:38] <Baby> never had any doubt about that
[04:38] <elkbuntu> this time, more butterfly, less bee
[04:38] <highvoltage> elkbuntu: just take it easy. remember he's human too, and also isn't perfect (and hence lacking in tact)
[04:38] <Baby> what's "more butterfly" like, comparing to a bee?
[04:38] <highvoltage> elkbuntu: right :)
[04:39] <elkbuntu> Baby, mohammad ali
[04:39] <Baby> oh, i'm not that much into boxing to be able to understand
[04:39] <elkbuntu> i cant remember it word for word, but i'll guarantee someone watching can ;)
[04:39] <ogra-classmate> ali compared to whom ?
 this time, more butterfly, less bee
[04:40] <AndyP> i'm not going to get myself into the main debate here but i'd like to point out that #ubuntu-motu is the place where new contributors first come to and maybe isn't a wise place to hold these kinds of debates. that said, i'm glad it's finished.
[04:42] <Baby> what would be the place?
[04:42] <AndyP> there never is a good one, i guess :/
[04:42] <Hobbsee> -offtopic, i guess.
[04:43] <elkbuntu> Baby, he'd been asked yesterday, he'd been asked in PM
[04:43] <Hobbsee> it depends
[04:43] <jsgotangco> AndyP: yeah apologies for that, unfortunately it unfolded here but is now escalated at community council so we'll talk about it first on email then to the meeting itself
[04:43] <Hobbsee> because there were lots of people here who knew him a bit
[04:43] <elkbuntu> err s/Baby/AndyP/
[04:43] <Hobbsee> whearas he wouldnt be known at all in -offtopic
[04:43] <Baby> XD
[04:43] <highvoltage> perhaps get all the interested people to discuss it in -women, or somewhere logged, at least.
[04:44] <elkbuntu> AndyP, the options were running out. i could have picked -devel, but i picked here.
[04:44] <ivoks> anyway, we've lost a competent person
[04:44] <Baby> ivoks: maybe lost more competent persons who read planet
[04:45] <leonel> maybe  better  to put in planet.ubuntu.com    content related to  ubuntu and free software  asking the blogowners to filter the content with tags  for  planet.ubuntu.com
[04:45] <elkbuntu> ivoks, i dont have the digits to count how many he's turned away that have told me directly he was the reason
[04:45] <Baby> and, as i said, if he really leaves because of this, he would have left sooner or later
[04:45] <ivoks> could be...
[04:45] <leonel> because  I believe  we can  put in our blogs  whatever  we  want  
[04:45] <Hobbsee> leonel: a lot is common sense.  "is this going to be interesting to other people?"
[04:45] <leonel> but as part of  ubuntu  
[04:45] <myriam_rs> ivoks: compteence doesn't excuse him behaving like a jerk
[04:46] <leonel> I'd like  to  be part  with ubuntu rules
[04:46] <leonel> Hobbsee: yes  that's the first thing to do 
[04:46] <leonel> Hobbsee: common sense  
[04:46] <PriceChild> leonel, what you can put in your blogs != what you should put on planet
[04:46] <leonel> PriceChild:that's righr 
[04:46] <leonel> right
[04:47] <ivoks> i'm not entering this conversation (i didn't saw his post or anything, i'm just commenting result; not taking sides)
[04:47] <leonel> I think  for planet ubuntu  get only content related  to  ubuntu  and the people with ubuntu and free software in mind
[04:47] <leonel> well  just  my  2 mx pesos ..
[04:49] <ivoks> leonel: i agree
[04:49] <persia> Documented guidelines are good.  Common Sense isn't always shared between cultures.
[04:49] <ivoks> leonel: this is why i don't post at all :)
[04:49] <jsgotangco> persia: +1
[04:50] <AndyP> in happier news, i just saw that fretsonfire's been uploaded to sid, that's awesome :)
[04:50] <Baby> yup
[04:50] <jsgotangco> ok we'll try to discuss this first on the cc list then to the meeting thanks everyone stay cool ;-)
[04:50] <Baby> we uploaded it some hours ago :)
[04:50] <Baby> at last, I've been trying to get that package into Debian for months!
[04:51] <AndyP> Baby: oh, it was you? you rock! :)
[04:51] <Baby> I
[04:51] <Baby> the Games Team as a whole, Mathew and me in this case
[04:51] <AndyP> i think that one package alone might make some of my friends switch to linux ;)
[04:52] <Baby> have you tried it in Ubuntu and see if it works properly too?
[04:52] <Baby> XDDD
[04:52] <Baby> yup :)
[04:52] <AndyP> i haven't tried that package, no, but i've played the game on ubuntu before and it worked very well
[04:52] <Baby> cool :)
[04:53] <Baby> anyway it would be nice to have feedback about the package in Ubuntu :)
[04:54] <AndyP> i'll have to give it a good testing after my exams have finished
[04:54] <Baby> to be honest, I seriously think that at some point the Debian Games Team should become a joint effort between Debian and Ubuntu, kinda Debian/Ubuntu Games Team
[04:54] <Baby> :)
[04:55] <Hobbsee> Baby: that could be organised
[04:55] <persia> Baby: I'd like that.  How do I join?
[04:55] <Baby> right now we are using alioth's infrastructure, would that be ok for you? I can add you to the group and teach how it works
[04:56] <Baby> we handle the packages in a subversion server
[04:56] <persia> Baby: Sure.  Does it matter than I'm not DD (or even NM)?
[04:56] <Baby> nop, not really
[04:56] <Baby> I'm not DD myself either :)
[04:57] <afflux> now, since the other discussion seems finished.. ;) I get some messages about some packages failing to configure (exiting with exit status 10 or 20). Any ideas about it? http://paste.stgraber.org/1189
[04:57] <Baby> (yet)
[04:57] <coNP> Baby: this sounds really cool
[04:57] <Baby> persia: that would be great
[04:59] <persia> Baby: I'm really only active with vegastrike, torcs, teg, and uqm, but I don't mind playing with others if there's a need.  Could you post a link to some docs I could review on how to get started (not that I know of any issues that need immediate fixing beyond fixing the now messy Ubuntu uqm).
[05:00] <Baby> yup :)
[05:00] <Baby> http://wiki.debian.org/Games/Development
[05:00] <Baby> this is the main page of the group in the wiki
[05:01] <Baby> and this http://wiki.debian.org/Games/ToolsDiscuss is about the discussion we had on the tools to use
[05:01] <Baby> i can help you getting used to working with svn if you need help :)
[05:02] <tsmithe> man-di, poke
[05:02] <afflux> oh, I think I found the problem. No more space on / ;)
[05:03] <persia> Baby: It's basically just co, make desired changes, commit, right?
[05:04] <Baby> yup :)
[05:04] <Baby> at least I work that way
[05:04] <Baby> http://wiki.debian.org/Games/SVN
[05:05] <Baby> some people prefer svn-buildpackage
[05:05] <Baby> but I don'T really use it myself
[05:07] <persia> Baby: Thanks.  I'll subscribe to the list and read the docs.  I haven't done anything with more than a couple of the games listed on that page, but I can at least merge my changes back in.  Does one just update the changelog with the appropriate entries for the individual changes, or are there specific guidelines?
[05:08] <Baby> we tend to put the changelogs like this: http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/pkg-games/packages/trunk/fretsonfire/debian/changelog?op=file&rev=0&sc=0
[05:09] <Baby> but there's no written rules about it
[05:09] <Baby> also, you should add yourself as uploader in debian/control if you want to take care of a game more than just a simple modification once :)
[05:10] <Baby> I'm writing a mail to the list about this :)
[05:11] <persia> OK.  dch does that for me, so I'm happy.  You can grab my key from my LP page (same ID).  I'd really like to fix the issue that teg doesn't display the server output in Debian (somehow my last patch back got mangled during application), and I'm sure I'll find a couple others after a bit of review.
[05:12] <Baby> persia: do you have an account in alioth so i can grant you access to the svn server?
[05:12] <persia> Baby: No.  I'm visitng the account creation pages now.
[05:13] <Baby> oki :))
[05:25] <persia> Baby: persia-guest
[05:25] <Baby> oki :)
[05:26] <Baby> persia: added :)
[05:26] <Baby> you might want to join the list, we have 3
[05:27] <Baby> debian-devel-games@debian.lists.org is the main mailing list
[05:27] <persia> Baby: Thanks.  It's late for me, but I'll take a look tomorrow (and subscribe to the discussion list - I'm not sure I want all the bugs - I'll look when I do a package).
[05:27] <Baby> oki :)))
[05:27] <Baby> the bugs and commits go to two lists in alioth
[05:27] <Baby> cu tomorrow :)
[05:30] <jekil> hello
[05:35] <persia> hello jekil
[05:44] <joejaxx> Hello All
[05:45] <AndyP> hi joejaxx 
[05:45] <joejaxx> :)
[05:51] <bluefoxicy> Anyone know a package that lets me print midi files off as notation for play on piano
[05:54] <persia> bluefoxicy: lilypond
[05:55] <bluefoxicy> persia:  nods.  I was looking at abc2mid/midi2abc and abc2ps but I want 2 tracks (left and right hand piano on some pieces), trying to learn piano ;)
[05:56] <persia> bluefoxicy: #ubuntustudio is probably a better channel for that.
[05:56] <bluefoxicy> ^o.o^
[06:15] <jsmidt> I would like to merge a couple of packages from debian.  I prefer the rules file written in cdbs.  Is it against Ubuntu policy to change Debian's package over to cdbs for Ubuntu?  
[06:17] <shawarma> jsmidt: Yes.
[06:18] <shawarma> jsmidt: We try to change as little as possible so that the next merge will be easier.
[06:18] <jsmidt> okay, makes sense.
[06:18] <jsmidt> thanks
[06:18] <shawarma> any time
[06:18] <ogra-classmate> if there would be a valid technical reason for it you could do it indeed
[06:19] <ogra-classmate> but only because of a personal preference thats not really a valid reason :)
[06:32] <nixternal> fsck I hate sleeping in late, I miss all of the good stuff damnit!
[07:19] <jikanter> what license is canonical-written software shipped with? Creative Commons? Version?
[07:20] <nixternal> what is canonical-written software? which pkg?
[07:20] <LaserJock> and is that canonical or Canonical (the company)
[07:20] <nixternal> good poing :)
[07:21] <nixternal> mornin' LaserJock 
[07:21] <zul> hey LaserJock 
[07:21] <LaserJock> hola senor Rich
[07:21] <nixternal> hehe
[07:21] <jikanter> like a bzr checkout of the bzr source?
[07:21] <Hobbsee> hi LaserJock 
[07:22] <jikanter> Laserjock: or how about the the Launchpad beta? 
[07:22] <LaserJock> hi Hobbsee 
[07:22] <LaserJock> jikanter: I'm a tad confused with what you are asking
[07:22] <LaserJock> are you asking what license Canonical sponsored software is released under?
[07:23] <jikanter> Laserjock: yes
[07:23] <LaserJock> in which case the answer is various, I think
[07:23] <LaserJock> Launchpad has not been released and so has no source available
[07:23] <LaserJock> I would think bzr is GPL but that's just a guess
[07:24] <jikanter> Laserjock: I thought the beta was released to a few people. Or at least that was what a launchpad page I read said..
[07:25] <LaserJock> the code isn't, as far as I know
[07:25] <LaserJock> there is a Launchpad Beta Testers team
[07:25] <siretart> wow. lp is now closing bugs on uploads!
[07:25] <jikanter> oh, ok.
[07:25] <jikanter> LaserJock: thanks
[07:34] <nixternal> I love when people ask questions they have only questioned..and then expect you to have the answer
[07:46] <nixternal> crimsun: when are you heading to DC? Looks like I may be out in Maryland for a few days in July
[08:34] <nixternal> _MMA_: where at in MD?
[08:34] <nixternal> I will be down in the sticks
[08:35] <_MMA_> Well I grew up in P.G. Co. Spent tons of time in D.C. I moved to Releigh N.C. last year.
[08:36] <jekil> anyone can review please? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5264
[08:36] <nixternal> haha
[08:36] <nixternal> _MMA_: St. Mary's county, so you know then ;)
[08:36] <nixternal> I lived there for a few years while in the military and right after
[08:37] <nixternal> I worked in PG County for a bit
[08:37] <nixternal> at the power plant
[08:37] <nixternal> did you get one of them 6 hour jobs?
[08:38] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: ping
[08:38] <LaserJock> nixternal: no
[08:38] <nixternal> I want one of those
[08:38] <LaserJock> mine was down to 20 min
[08:39] <nixternal> my dad picked on up for his laptop..he gets over 6 hours of battery time
[08:39] <nixternal> ahh
[08:39] <nixternal> I am at about 2.5 hours
[08:39] <LaserJock> the new one seems to go about 3-4 hrs
[08:39] <nixternal> nice
[08:39] <LaserJock> I got more amp hours, and it was really cheap
[08:40] <LaserJock> I've been using the one that came with the laptop for ~ 3years or so
[08:40] <LaserJock> then the AC adapter was going out
[08:40] <LaserJock> so I decided to get a new adapter and battery
[08:41] <LaserJock> I got both for $118 from comptick.com
[08:42] <RainCT> one question, how can I get something into the Preferences menu?
[08:42] <LaserJock> how do you mean?
[08:42] <nixternal> that is cheap
[08:42] <RainCT> "Preferences" worked but now I've installed gutsy's version of the validator and it says it's wrong
[08:42] <LaserJock> in the .desktop?
[08:43] <RainCT> yes
[08:43] <LaserJock> nixternal: they didn't have the best rating on resellerratings.com so it was a bit of a crap-shoot
[08:43] <RainCT> also it says a lot of categories now (for ex: "AudioVideo", "Audio", "Video", "Development", "Education", "Game", "Graphics", "Network", "Office", "Settings", "System", "Utility", "Building", "Debugger", "IDE", "GUIDesigner", "Profiling", ...). is this ok?
[08:43] <LaserJock> nixternal: looked like people mostly had problems with bad RAM sticks so I went ahead and tried it
[08:44] <nixternal> cool
[08:44] <nixternal> I just might give it a shot
[08:57] <mwolson> could i convince someone to look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5209
[08:58] <RainCT> could someone check and sponsor the debdiff from bug #117156 please?
[08:58] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 117156 in flobopuyo "Flobopuyo has no icon for the .desktop file" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/117156
[09:00] <SlimG> Why does "cat testmanual" render correctly but "nroff -man testmanual | less" renders the three last chars (special chars) wrong, "file testmanual" says utf8, here's the file: http://files.iggu.org/testmanual
[09:02] <SlimG> The three last chars should be "" (uppercase) and "" (lowercase)
[09:10] <rollerskatejamms> Is there a backports room?
[09:20] <LaserJock> is the MOTU Q&A going to be in here?
[09:24] <stijn_pol> Can anyone tell me what a config.sub file does? and why does debuild -S modify it? thanks
[09:25] <stijn_pol> it says: configuration validation subroutine script
[09:29] <ryanakca> can a MOTU look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5307 please
[09:29] <LaserJock> crimsun: are you around?
[09:29] <ryanakca> (aoeui, a Dvorak optimized text editor)
[09:29] <ryanakca> oops, never mind
[09:32] <ryanakca> "aoeui doesnt seem to run make install. No binary is in the package." ... how do I fix this with CDBS? It's a small C app...
[09:32] <ryanakca> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5307
[09:33] <ryanakca> I thought having "include /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/makefile.mk" would take care of it...
[09:33] <geser> stijn_pol: it's used with config.guess to guess on with arch it is run (the build takes place). I don't know more about it.
[09:34] <geser> stijn_pol: it's updated during build because a rule in debian/rules updates them to use an up-to-date version of it
[09:36] <bmm> I've got a package in REVU and havn't got anything to do on it. The last few comments where in the "do this, otherwise fine" catagory and no new comments have been made.
[09:36] <bmm> What is the most effective method of getting this package in Ubuntu: waiting for a new comment or poking people on this channel?
[09:40] <geser> unfortunately is poking people the most effective way
[09:40] <bmm> Thought so :-( But then again, it's a community process....
[09:40] <LaserJock> geser: heah, you were at the MOTU Meeting weren't you?
[09:42] <bmm> MOTU looking for comments or advocation on ccbuild http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5295
[09:43] <geser> LaserJock: yes
[09:43] <LaserJock> geser: can you describe the MOTU Q&A thing a bit more
[09:43] <LaserJock> is it going to be the whole day
[09:44] <LaserJock> or just during 0UTC and 12:00UTC
[09:45] <AndyP> ryanakca: in your rules file: DEB_INSTALL_MANPAGES_qcomicbook := $(CURDIR)/aoeui.1
[09:46] <AndyP> i don't think the qcomicbook part is right
[09:48] <ryanakca> AndyP: oh... copy paste bites back
[09:48] <RainCT> debdiff is placing a tmp folder in the urls, like diff -Nru /tmp/13XyBMnovD/defoma-0.11.10/debian/changelog /tmp/KkTjf7jbp4/defoma-0.11.10/debian/changelog, what's the problem?
[09:49] <RainCT> (generated with  debdiff defoma_0.11.10-0.1.dsc defoma_0.11.10-0.1ubuntu1.dsc > defoma_0.11.10-0.1ubuntu1.debdiff)
[09:49] <geser> LaserJock: as far as I understood it, it's should be like a MOTU school session but without a topic and questions from MOTU hopefuls (or how they are called nowadays) instead
[09:49] <LaserJock> are they like 1hr long then?
[09:49] <ryanakca> AndyP: fixed that, and for the no binary problem?
[09:49] <geser> so there isn't much to prepare besides getting some MOTUs together to answer the questions
[09:49] <RainCT> geser: MOTU Contributors, I think
[09:50] <LaserJock> I'm trying to put this on Fridge
[09:51] <geser> LaserJock: I don't know how long it should take
[09:51] <LaserJock> hmm, maybe I should email -motu first then ;-)
[09:52] <geser> and reading the log again it doesn't help
[09:55] <RainCT> off-topic: where should feature requests go?
[09:56] <stijn_pol> geser: Thanks!!
[10:05] <AndyP> ryanakca: you can use DEB_MAKE_INSTALL_TARGET  := install INST_DIR=$(CURDIR)/debian/aoeui/usr
[10:05] <AndyP> ryanakca: above your includes
[10:06] <AndyP> seems to work anyway :)
[10:07] <ryanakca> AndyP: above? (just for factual, why doesn't it / won't it work below?)
[10:07] <Flannel> \lastlog -clear
[10:09] <AndyP> ryanakca: i suspect debhelper.mk needs it to be declared above, but i could be wrong... feel free to try it below as well and see if it works :)
[10:09] <ryanakca> hmmm. will do, Thanks!
[10:10] <AndyP> s/as well/instead/
[10:10] <RainCT> Can somebody sponsor debdiff from #49443 please?
[10:12] <ryanakca> kindof offtopic question, but, how do you set up a server that you can dput to? My pbuilder is on my server, so it doesn't slow down my desktop, but I find it kind of annoying having to sftp the sources every time...
[10:14] <AndyP> ryanakca: no idea, but i tend to use sshfs if i have to do a lot of transferring between boxes on my LAN
[10:14] <geser> RainCT: as defoma is in main you need someone from the ubuntu-main-sponsors team (I've subscribed them to this bug)
[10:15] <RainCT> geser: oh, didn't notice it. thanks
[10:15] <ryanakca> AndyP: sshfs? is that a mounted network filesystem type thing, like samba?
[10:15] <ryanakca> AndyP: cool
[10:54] <LaserJock> nixternal: ping
[10:55] <highvoltage> hey LaserJock
[10:55] <luisbg> hey LaserJock 
[10:55] <luisbg> just wanted to say HI ;)
[10:55] <highvoltage> just wanted to say HI ;
[10:55] <LaserJock> hmm
[10:55] <LaserJock> hi
[10:55] <highvoltage> LaserJock.groupies FTW
[10:56] <highvoltage> LaserJock: did you see the whole \sh thing?
[10:56] <LaserJock> highvoltage: yes :/
[10:56] <LaserJock> not terribly  surprising
[10:56] <LaserJock> he's left before
[10:57] <highvoltage> I remember. I think he'll be back.
[10:57] <LaserJock> but it stinks that he felt like he nedded to do thta
[10:57] <highvoltage> yep.
[10:57] <ajmitch> hello
[10:57] <LaserJock> it was a NTSFW post so I wished he had put it on his personal blog space
[10:57] <highvoltage> I think it kind of sucks that someone threatens to leave every time he doesn't get his way. it's like keeping people hostage... anyway...
[10:58] <highvoltage> hey ajmitch 
[10:58] <ajmitch> it stinks that he up & left over one complaint, without even acknowledging that yes, it may not have been appropriate
[10:58] <highvoltage> LaserJock: NTSFW?
[10:58] <LaserJock> Not Safe For Work
[10:58] <highvoltage> aah
[10:58] <LaserJock> NSFW, I guess
[10:59] <ajmitch> well, at least I got the server at work upgraded from sarge to etch last night :)
[10:59] <highvoltage> ajmitch: whohoo!
[10:59] <ajmitch> only minor pain involved
[10:59] <highvoltage> aparently sarge > etch is quite smooth.
[10:59] <ajmitch> it was, just a couple of config file changes needed to get apache & dovecot to work properly again
[10:59] <LaserJock> I'm not into censorship, but if I don't want to have to worry about my boss or wife seeing planet
[10:59] <LaserJock> s/if//
[11:00] <highvoltage> LaserJock: that is very well said
[11:00] <plugwash> i know when I upgraded from sarge-etch sendmail broke
[11:00] <highvoltage> people still use sendmail? ;)
[11:00] <ajmitch> highvoltage: apparantly
[11:00] <plugwash> or rather it was still sort of working but my listing in the CBL was making me think it was seriously misbehaving in some way
[11:01] <plugwash> so it got replaced with postfix
[11:01] <highvoltage> I use postfix because it's so rediculously easy. It's actually so easy on Debain or Ubuntu that it makes me feel guilty :)
[11:02] <ajmitch> exim has been default on debian for awhile
[11:02] <ajmitch> and I find it fairly nice, so I went with it
[11:02] <highvoltage> I know a lot of people that like exim.
[11:03] <highvoltage> I think I only used it on Debian Woody a few years back.
[11:05] <beuno> I use exim on 2 redhat web servers that host ~150 sites and it works great  :D
[11:05] <nixternal> LaserJock: pong?
[11:09] <LaserJock> nixternal: got your email on MOTU Q&A
[11:09] <nixternal> was it good or bad?
[11:09] <LaserJock> I do see it as an Openweek kind of thing
[11:10] <nixternal> ya, I understood it as such
[11:10] <LaserJock> I wanted to call MOTU Open Day
[11:10] <LaserJock> or MOTU Q&A Day
[11:10] <LaserJock> but in the log it says two specific times
[11:24] <xxxxx1> bye all
[11:47] <crimsun> nixternal: late June
[11:47] <crimsun> LaserJock: yes?
[11:49] <RainCT> good night
[11:55] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: You rang?
[11:56] <Fujitsu> (I've been up ffor a while, but was reading tracebackk for fairly obvious reasons)
[12:00] <nixternal> haha Fujitsu..."fairly obvious"
[12:05] <mshima> I need some help, I'm trying to send launchpad a new version of a package but I don't now how to do it
[12:06] <Fujitsu> mshima: You won't be able to upload directly. You need to create a debdiff (debdiff oldversion.dsc newversion.dsc) and attach it to a bug.
[12:06] <mshima> ok
[12:07] <mshima> attach the hole diff?
[12:08] <Fujitsu> Correct.
[12:09] <mshima> thanks