[03:55] <ubotu> vox754 called the ops in #ubuntu
[03:56] <nixternal> hehe Hobbsee, someone gave him the pastebin link, that is why I didn't boot him...the long pointy stick prevails! :)
[03:57] <Hobbsee> heh
[05:13] <nalioth> elkbuntu: yes
[05:13] <nalioth> don't you see the BIIG  "L"
[05:14] <elkbuntu> i do, that's why i asked
[05:14] <elkbuntu> ban evading?
[05:14] <elkbuntu> ahoi, matey
[05:16] <Pumpernickel> yarr
[06:01] <ubotu> Minataku called the ops in #kubuntu
[07:57] <Madpilot> !staff
[07:57] <ubotu> Hey nalioth, jenda, rob, SportChick or ompaul! I could use a bit of your time :)
[07:57] <Madpilot> need a kline: banter@xdsl-187-250.nblnetworks.fi
[07:58] <Myrtti> ooh, a finnish one
[07:58] <Myrtti> what has he done
[07:59] <Madpilot> D C C
[07:59] <Myrtti> lovely
[07:59] <Madpilot> in #ubuntu
[08:03] <Amaranth> oh
[08:03] <Amaranth> wow, i've been on this stupid insecure 'linksys' network for 2 days
[08:20] <sivaji> how to configure kopete to send sms
[09:17] <ubotu> crdlb called the ops in #ubuntu
[09:17] <ubotu> Redneck|Laptop_ called the ops in #ubuntu
[09:18] <Madpilot> dealt with
[09:53] <Myrtti> just a quick thought
[09:54] <Myrtti> *!root@* should be forwarded someplace
[10:04] <Madpilot>  #ubuntu-people-with-bad-habits-and-idiot-usernames
[10:05] <crdlb> what if somebody's stuck in recovery mode in irssi?
[10:06] <Myrtti> *shudder*
[10:25] <Tm_T> hmm, CC-meeting is tomorrow?
[10:45] <ubotu> predaeus called the ops in #ubuntu
[11:07] <ubotu> In ubotu, orbin said: html is HyperText Markup Language, used to build webpages. Editors in Ubuntu: Bluefish, Quanta+, Screem, Amaya and Nvu. For howto on HTML coding, see: http://www.w3schools.com
[11:31] <Tm_T> Jucato: ooh I'm so tempted, #kubu
[11:31] <Jucato> Tm_T: give in ehehe
[11:31] <Tm_T> 7kick aseigo_zzZZzz no awaynicks
[11:31] <Tm_T> muhahaha ] ;=
[11:31] <Myrtti> go for it!
[11:32] <Jucato> hehe :)
[11:38] <Tm_T> ...and get myself into trouble
[11:43] <gnomefreak> is today hoiliday in germany like it is in UK?
[11:45] <Tm_T> what hoiliday it would be?
[11:45] <gnomefreak> a bank holiday in Uk afaik
[11:45] <Tm_T> sounds interesting
[11:45] <Myrtti> hmh.
[11:45] <Tm_T> I'm lost even with finnish holidays =)
[11:46] <Myrtti> I knew it was Pentecost yesterday
[11:46] <Myrtti> oh, apparently it still is in UK
[11:46] <Tm_T> I did too know that later
[11:47] <Tm_T> after I tried to go to grocery
[11:47] <Myrtti> you should've asked on IRC ;-)
[11:47] <Tm_T> well, in IRC I did find it out ;)
[11:50] <Tm_T> glad I didn't make all the way to the doors
[12:04] <gnomefreak> he really doesnt need to be running gutsy at all :(
[12:05] <ompaul> yeap
[12:05] <ompaul> worksforme needs an alias of latest methinks
[12:05] <ompaul> or something better
[12:07] <gnomefreak> i think the topic of +1 needs to be fixed to something like dont use gutsy, its for developers at this point (or something like that, i have found 3 people running it that dont even know the basics of linux let alone debian/ubuntu
[12:12] <ompaul> they go whats the latest
[12:12] <ompaul> and then bank
[12:12] <ompaul> bang
[12:12] <ompaul> gnomefreak, I'll look at it now
[12:13] <gnomefreak> i dont have any nice way of putting it :(
[12:13] <gnomefreak> ty
[12:15] <ompaul> gnomefreak, it is the best I can do with it
[12:16] <gnomefreak> ty that is fine lets see how well it works
[12:17] <Tm_T> why not just say it loud and clear: It's broken until public beta
[12:18] <gnomefreak> Tm_T: same reason why i didnt add what i was thinking (we try to say it in nice way)
[12:18] <gnomefreak> but the truth isnt always nice :(
[12:19] <Tm_T> well I think it's nicer to say it that way than "it might break"
[12:19] <Tm_T> or maybe, "consider it broken until public beta"
[12:19] <gnomefreak> Tm_T: than you get the itworksforme crap
[12:20] <Tm_T> ?
[12:20] <gnomefreak> and oddly people fight thtat point too :(
[12:20] <Tm_T> that sounds, err, not smart
[12:20] <gnomefreak> Tm_T: you havent had anyone say well autocrapix works for me
[12:20] <gnomefreak> or its not broken it works fine here
[12:20] <Tm_T> yes, that's instant kickban if possible ;-P
[12:21] <gnomefreak> while others are having big issues
[12:21] <crdlb> on a related note, /me loves the new envy factoid
[12:21] <Tm_T> "it's broken if I say so!" ;-P
[12:21] <Tm_T> !envy
[12:21] <ubotu> envy is a script that may leave you envious of those who have not used it, use the resticted manager to install binary drivers or use the instructions on the wiki, this script may break your machine very badly!
[12:21] <Tm_T> haha
[12:22] <gnomefreak> !nvidia
[12:22] <ubotu> To install the Ati/NVidia drivers for your video card, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BinaryDriverHowto
[02:05] <gnomefreak> !staff
[02:05] <ubotu> Hey nalioth, jenda, rob, SportChick or ompaul! I could use a bit of your time :)
[02:06] <gnomefreak> ignore that they were klined already
[02:06] <Myrtti> that was fun
[02:06] <gnomefreak> its the same one from yesterday
[02:08] <elkbuntu> * Brutus has quit (K-lined) <-- let me guess who the lurker was :)
[02:08] <gnomefreak> most likely
[02:08] <elkbuntu> he was the only non-pwet to go
[02:08] <PriceChild> same hostname
[02:09] <gnomefreak> yep so once kline ends he will return but i have him banned so maybe not
[02:09] <gnomefreak> although looks like a dynamic IP since i banned them yesterday
[02:12] <gnomefreak> PriceChild: you banned him as well
[02:12] <PriceChild> I did?
[02:13] <gnomefreak> yep afaict
[02:13] <gnomefreak> nope sorry it was me
[02:13] <gnomefreak> i read it wrong
[02:13] <PriceChild> hehe :)
[02:55] <gnomefreak> !ops | there seems to be a new exploit on freenode
[02:55] <ubotu> there seems to be a new exploit on freenode: Help! Mez, LjL, elkbuntu, imbrandon, DBO, gnomefreak, Hobbsee, rob, ompaul, Madpilot, Burgundavia, Seveas, CarlK, crimsun, ajmitch, tritium, Nalioth, thoreauputic, apokryphos, tonyyarusso, PriceChild, Amaranth, jrib, jenda, nixternal, Myrtti or mneptok
[02:55] <ubotu> gnomefreak called the ops in #ubuntu-ops
[02:56] <PriceChild> :(
[02:56] <Hobbsee> gnomefreak: what's this now?
[02:56] <Myrtti> wha
[02:56] <PriceChild> where/
[02:56] <Seveas> ?
[02:56] <gnomefreak>  [Notice]  -Noooop to
[02:56] <gnomefreak>                           #ubuntu-bugs- You have 1 new message. Type /server
[02:56] <gnomefreak>                           mail to read.
[02:56] <gnomefreak> you type it and you get disconnected
[02:56] <Myrtti> pwah
[02:56] <gnomefreak> prick got banned for doing it to me
[02:56] <gnomefreak> in -bugs
[02:56] <Myrtti> that's a joke
[02:57] <Myrtti> about the oldest on irc
[02:57] <PriceChild> That's not really an exploit :P
[02:57] <Myrtti> if /quit and /exit were fighting, which one would win?
[02:57] <Myrtti> exactly
[02:57] <gnomefreak> its an exploit either way as it uses the server in a bad way
[02:57] <PriceChild> it uses what server?
[02:57] <Myrtti> it doesn't matter
[02:57] <gnomefreak> PriceChild: freenode
[02:58] <PriceChild> when you type that you tell your client to disconnect from freenode and connect to the server "mail"
[02:58] <gnomefreak> PriceChild: seeing as you are typing /server mail
[02:58] <Myrtti> it does the same in every network
[02:58] <PriceChild> It does not do anything to freenode
[02:58] <Myrtti> with every client
[02:58] <PriceChild> Its a client thing.
[02:58] <gnomefreak> ah
[02:58] <Myrtti> rfc stuff
[02:59] <gnomefreak> irssi uses /server <server> so why would it dissconnect me?
[02:59] <gnomefreak> i can open more than one server
[02:59] <PriceChild> yes
[02:59] <PriceChild> but you haven't told it to open as a new server ;)
[02:59] <gnomefreak> see your point
[02:59] <PriceChild> i think you use /connect for that... but i can't remember.
[02:59] <Myrtti> yeah
[02:59] <gnomefreak> well either way someone is screwing around please watch out ;)
[03:00] <PriceChild> its like telling someone to /join #random,0 or something
[03:01] <PriceChild> you live and learn :)
[03:02] <gnomefreak> i got it first than arby got it but he was only in -bugs and hes gone
[03:02] <Myrtti> http://bash.org/?238510
[03:02] <gnomefreak> @btlogin
[03:04] <gnomefreak> sad part is he picked an op to do it to
[03:04] <Hobbsee> it was a channel - so anyone there
[03:04] <gnomefreak> oh it was?
[03:05] <gnomefreak> i thought it was just me and arby
[03:05] <Hobbsee> [22:53]  [Notice]  -Noooop to #ubuntu-bugs- You have 1 new message. Type /server mail to read.
[03:05] <gnomefreak> ah
[03:11] -Seveas:#ubuntu-ops- You have new messages. Type /server messages to see them
[03:11] <Seveas> :p
[03:11] <PriceChild> How mean :)
[03:11] <PriceChild> haha
[03:13] <Hobbsee> LCoC?
[03:14] <PriceChild> Leadership Code of Conduct
[03:14] <PriceChild> You're bound by it as an irc op ;)
[03:14] <PriceChild> http://www.ubuntu.com/community/leadership-conduct
[03:14] <Hobbsee> ahh
[03:18] <effie_jayx> PriceChild,  can it be signed ?
[03:18] <PriceChild> If you have signed the CoC then I assume that means you agree to LCoC as wel
[03:18] <PriceChild> l
[03:19] <PriceChild> http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct 's footer makes that apparent... although maybe not in the version of the CoC we've signed...
[03:20] <effie_jayx> PriceChild,  Ahh.. ok.. I have signed the CoC and since the launchpad section elicits more Codes ... I thought it would be mde available there...
[03:56] <ompaul> gnomefreak, OI!
[03:56] <ompaul> gnomefreak, /server is a command to swap servers ;-) we can't really change that
[03:58] <ompaul> Seveas, got a mo?
[03:58] <Seveas> ompaul, so it IS my fault?
[03:58] <ompaul> it is your fault indeed
[03:58] <LjL> surely
[03:58] <elkbuntu> w00t. i imploded -motu
[03:58] <Seveas> (who did get that reference?)
[03:58] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: yay!
[03:58] <Hobbsee> *high fives*
[03:59] <ompaul> Seveas, there is a tshirt as a prise
[03:59] <ompaul> prize even
[03:59] <ompaul> Seveas, pm
[04:00] <GazzaK> can I have a prize?
[04:00] <mc44> elkbuntu: yay for overreactions!
[04:00] <elkbuntu> mc44, you'd better want to be talking about his behaviour, not mine.
[04:00] <mc44> elkbuntu: I was
[04:00] <elkbuntu> good boy
[04:00] <Hobbsee> oh good
[04:00] <Hobbsee> else i'd have to shoot you
[04:01] <mc44> Hobbsee: just try! I have magical bullet armour!
[04:01] <mc44> I made it out of paper machie
[04:01] <Seveas> mc44, and Hobbsee has Long Pointy Stick Bullets!
[04:01] <Hobbsee> haha
[04:01] <mc44> :D
[04:02] <GazzaK> the famed long pointy stick has been franchised?
[04:02] <GazzaK> OMG!!!11!
[04:02] <Seveas> haha
[04:03] <Hobbsee> hahaha
[04:09] <tonyyarusso> elkbuntu: Methinks you have far too much patience for idiots.
[04:09] <elkbuntu> tonyyarusso, you think i was patient?
[04:09] <elkbuntu> i feel like i've f***ed up royally :-/
[04:10] <tonyyarusso> elkbuntu: Yeah - could have saved yourself like an hour, "That doesn't belong there, what were you thinking?  I'm going to get a snack after sending this e-mail to the CC and Planet admins."
[04:10] <elkbuntu> tonyyarusso, that comment would have ended the same way
[04:10] <tonyyarusso> elkbuntu: exactly
[04:11] <mc44> elkbuntu: you had a resonable complaint about the post, obviously not everyone is going to agree with you, but to say that bringing it up was a mistake is being way to unfair on yourself
[04:11] <elkbuntu> with the same amount of noise
[04:11] <elkbuntu> mc44, i could have been more tactful
[04:11] <elkbuntu> tact is not my forte
[04:11] <Seveas> The membership status of Stephan Hermann (shermann) in the team Ubuntu
[04:11] <Seveas> Members (ubuntumembers) was changed by the user himself from Approved to
[04:11] <Seveas> Deactivated.
[04:11] <highvoltage> (sorriy elkbuntu)
[04:11] <highvoltage> *sorry
[04:11] <Seveas> Talk about overreacting....
[04:11] <elkbuntu> Seveas, yeah
[04:11] <highvoltage> elkbuntu: then again, these things are hardly easy topics
[04:11] <highvoltage> s
[04:11] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: i tried tact yesterday.  didnt work.
[04:12] <elkbuntu> highvoltage, it could have been worse, i could have gone like elmo at jono re: corey
[04:12] <Seveas> hahaha
[04:12] <elkbuntu> Hobbsee, true
[04:12] <highvoltage> elkbuntu: yes, you're right :)
[04:12] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: like the planet discussion, the forums bit at UDS - attempting it, anyway
[04:12] <tonyyarusso> Tact is only worthwhile when dealing with rational, mature people.  Others are more efficiently done with a bat.
[04:12] <highvoltage> elkbuntu: also, I think it's better that you said something than stay quiet. tact or no tact.
[04:12] <elkbuntu> highvoltage, that's how i'm looking at it
[04:13] <Seveas> if you feel strongly about something: say it
[04:13] <elkbuntu> or, trying to
[04:13] <Hobbsee> tonyyarusso: *grin*
[04:13] <Hobbsee> tonyyarusso: does that apply to customers?
[04:13] <tonyyarusso> Hobbsee: Yes, as long as your manager either doesn't see, or agrees.
[04:13] <Hobbsee> heh
[04:14] <Hobbsee> so do it off camera.  gotcha.
[04:14] <tonyyarusso> For the record, _my_ manager has a sticker on his stand that says "DAN WILL CUT YOU"
[04:14] <Hobbsee> hahaha
[04:14] <Hobbsee> nice
[04:14] <Seveas> is his name dan or is it his dog?
[04:15] <tonyyarusso> He's Dan
[04:17] <ompaul> speak truth to power, people
[04:17] <ompaul> tonyyarusso, if you must use a bat, make it verbal
[04:17] <Seveas> neh, wood is more effective
[04:21] <tonyyarusso> elkbuntu: may also be of interest/use to you: http://blog.tonyyarusso.com/politics/what-free-speech-isnt/
[04:23] <ompaul> tonyyarusso, well done, that might be useful to those outside the Ubuntu community :)
[04:25] <LjL> tonyyarusso, "i can say whatever the hell i want" alone would be likely to get you a !langauge in #ubuntu :-P
[04:25] <tonyyarusso> LjL: true
[04:37] <ompaul> tonyyarusso, however would you mind if I stuck that url in the topic of #ubuntu-offtopic maybe as a tinyurl
[04:38] <tonyyarusso> ompaul: not at all.  (I'm a pretty big subscriber to "What you post online will be seen and repeated")
[04:40] <ompaul> tonyyarusso, it is being repeated now ;-)
[04:41] <tonyyarusso> ompaul: person's should have an apostrophe ;)
[04:46] <ompaul> thanks
[04:50] <ompaul> mc44, I deamand a retort in -offtopic
[05:00] <nalioth> new exploit?
[05:01] <GazzaK> nalioth, it's not new, it's very very old
[05:01] <GazzaK> and not an exploit
[05:01] <nalioth> GazzaK: so who put "new exploit" in the ubotu msg system?
[05:02] <elkbuntu> it is an exploit... of people's lack of thinking
[05:02] <GazzaK> gnomefreak> !ops | there seems to be a new exploit on freenode
[05:02] <GazzaK> that one you mean nalioth
[05:03] <GazzaK> to do with a /notice saying -Seveas/#ubuntu-ops- You have new messages. Type /server messages to see them
[05:03] <nalioth> whatever it was
[05:03] <nalioth> so it's not new?
[05:03] <GazzaK> it's as old as irc
[05:04] <Seveas> !new exploit
[05:04] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about new exploit - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[05:04] <Seveas> it's an ancient one :)
[05:05] <Seveas> @lart /server
[05:05] <mc44> now that is an exploit
[05:05] <Seveas> (would be fun if a netsplit happens now :))
[05:05] <GazzaK> arghhh me eyes
[05:07] <nalioth> so just exactly what was gnomefreak on about, then?
[05:08] -Seveas:#ubuntu-ops- You have new messages. Type /server messages to see them
[05:08] <Seveas> nalioth, that --^
[05:08] <nalioth> that's not an exploit
[05:08] <LjL> Seveas, i notice you haven't kickbanned yourself :P
[05:09] <nalioth> that's a PITA
[05:09] <Seveas> indeed
[05:34] <gnomefreak> nalioth: yes i found that out
[06:42] <CheshireViking> Ops just wondering whether there's some bots/trolls playing in #ubuntu - there's a few users with names "cd-13" "cd-12" "cd-17" etc, all at the same time, but names have been changing to something different in the last minute or two
[06:44] <PriceChild> Being a bit obvious Cotton-swab :)
[06:45] <gnomefreak> yes they are bots or trolls
 yoda < nice... he learns so quick.....
[06:45] <PriceChild> I don't think we can do anything yet though...
[06:46] <gnomefreak> im not sure what name they are using atm but warn once remove/ban next IMHO since all they are saying is where you from <or something the like>
[06:46] <PriceChild> I just did a /who on the hostname...
[06:46] <PriceChild> * #ubuntu n=cd-17 gw4.austrointernet.cl irc.freenode.net cd-17 H :0 Unknown
[06:46] <PriceChild> * #ubuntu n=cd-13 gw4.austrointernet.cl irc.freenode.net kamilaaw H :0 Unknown
[06:46] <PriceChild> "kamilaaw"...
[06:47] <gnomefreak> no doubt in my mind they can go
[06:49] <PriceChild> the kamilaaw person went...
[06:50] <mneptok> they can smell your fear
[06:51] <GazzaK> mneptok, they can smell you
[06:54] <Hobbsee> <have multiple targets, to make it appear random>
[06:54] <GazzaK> thats your excuse
[06:54] <GazzaK> good idea though
[06:54] <Hobbsee> :)
[06:57] <GazzaK> lol, cotton-swab is asking for a cloak now
[06:57] <PriceChild> where?
[06:57] <Hobbsee> of?
[06:57] <gnomefreak> he knows we can still clean him from channel with or without cloak right?
[06:58] <PriceChild> ah #freenode
[06:58] <GazzaK> yeah
[06:59] <GazzaK> bit much when you all join the channel at once :p
[06:59] <PriceChild> hmm?
[07:01] <gnomefreak> hes getting one
[07:02] <nalioth> gnomefreak: let him
[07:03] <mneptok> oo. bumpy.
[07:03] <PriceChild> joins #ubuntu!
[07:04] <GazzaK> if he sets an email, nalioth could tell him off
[07:04] <gnomefreak-lapto> ack
[07:05] <gnomefreak-lapto> grrrrr
[07:05] <Hobbsee> mneptok: hmmm?
[07:05] <mneptok> Hobbsee: your boot.
[07:06] <gnomefreak-lapto> nalioth: there is a char limit on nicks?
[07:06] <Hobbsee> mneptok: sorry.  see [02:54]  <Hobbsee> <have multiple targets, to make it appear random>
[07:06] <Hobbsee> mneptok: i picked the last ones to talk
[07:07] <gnomefreak> hmmm
[07:07] <mneptok> i'm ripe. try me.
[07:08] <mneptok> my ears have not decompressed since yesterday's flight. unfun.
[07:08] <mneptok> i feel like i'm livivng underwater
[07:09] <ikonia> afternoon all, hope your all enjoying a bank holiday weekend
[07:09] <gnomefreak> memorial day here
[07:10] <PriceChild> Where are all these joins coming from? :s
[07:11] <PriceChild> drugs are bad mmmkay
[07:11] <mneptok> you're doing it wrong.
[07:13] <Myrtti> what's going on
[07:14] <Amaranth> PriceChild: dell
[07:15] <PriceChild> hehe
[07:18] <ikonia> I wonder how much of a factor dell is to PriceChild's question
[07:18] <PriceChild> I'd say not at all.
[07:18] <ikonia> to be honest I would have said %1 or %2-ish
[07:18] <ikonia> but I do wonder
[07:20] <PriceChild> I'm talking about a sudden rush of joins all together, not a long extended thing.
[07:21] <ikonia> ahhh
[07:22] <PriceChild> Ljl's made me scared every time I see collections of 4 joins at once :)
[07:33] <gnomefreak> !info libatk1.0-0 edgy
[07:33] <ubotu> libatk1.0-0: The ATK accessibility toolkit. In component main, is optional. Version 1.12.3-0ubuntu1 (edgy), package size 73 kB, installed size 196 kB
[07:35] <Hobbsee> gnomefreak: oh it is there?  darn.
[07:35] <gnomefreak> i was
[07:35] <gnomefreak> i was gonna reject it but i think he needs to know dpkg doesnt fix depends
[07:35] <Hobbsee> true
[07:40] <Acme> hello. i was banned from the #ubuntu-de channel and i dont now why. bevor i was  banned i always get the message #ubuntu-de: cannot send to channel when i wanted to ask somethink. so my question is what can i do ?
[07:42] <PriceChild> Hey Acme, we don't really deal with loco channel problems. Probably best that you "/msg chanserv access #ubuntu-de list" and pm one of the operators listed there to try and find out what happenned.
[07:42] <Acme> ok thanks
[07:42] <ubuntu_laptop> Acme: do you know who banned you?
[07:42] <nalioth> PriceChild: /remove
[07:43] <PriceChild> Will do sorry.
[07:43] <Acme> yes sysdef
[07:43] <Seveas> Acme, your entire provider was banned because it hosts a few annoying trolls
[07:43] <Seveas> I hate such measures, but unfortunately it was neccessary here
[07:43] <Seveas> Acme, best is to talk to sysdef
[07:44] <Seveas> he can do something about it
[07:44] <Acme> i will try it. thank you all very much
[07:44] <Acme> good bye
[07:46] <gnomefreak> nalioth: PriceChild did you guys get the wrong person?
[07:46] <gnomefreak> in #ubuntu
[07:46] <nalioth> gnomefreak: nope
[07:46] <nalioth> we both got the right person
[07:47] <gnomefreak> his question looked good
[07:47] <nalioth> but PriceChild had to do extra work
[07:47] <PriceChild> Just nalioth did it "properly" :P
[07:47] <PriceChild> i like to mute and then send a !paste in channel as they're watching.
[07:47] <gnomefreak> i thought you were going for the user above him that posted the link
[07:47] <PriceChild> but will change that now :)
[07:47] <PriceChild> what link?
[07:48] <gnomefreak> i see what it was now
[07:48] <gnomefreak> he kept posting the same thing without waitins ;)
[08:08] <Tm_T> ubotu: botsnack
[08:08] <ubotu> Yum! Err, I mean, APT!
[08:25] <LjL> they got the whole of versanet banned? that's interesting
[08:26] <nalioth> LjL: not really, i know who the ban is in honor of
[08:27] <LjL> i think i do as well for that matter
[08:28] <Tm_T> wasn't me!
[09:04] <ompaul> okay the people who think that #ubuntu should be a lobby - bit of news for yez I actually totally agree with you now, but the question is now to move forward
[09:06] <mc44> ompaul: a lobby?
[09:06] <LjL> eh?
[09:09] <nalioth> to direct folks onward
[09:09] <nalioth>  for gutsy gopher, join #ubuntu+1
[09:09] <nalioth> for xgl / compiz / whatever join #ubuntu-effects
[09:09] <nalioth> for Xubuntu join #xubuntu
[09:09] <nalioth> and so on
[09:10] <mc44> gibbon!
[09:10] <LjL> right except we do that already. and deal with the ubuntu-proper questions directly.
[09:11] <ompaul> LjL, so the expression was given to something like -beginners
[09:11] <ompaul> or install
[09:11] <mc44> meh
[09:11] <ompaul> and stuf
[09:11] <ompaul> but there has to be a realistic break up
[09:11] <LjL> yeah, it'd most likely break up
[09:12] <ompaul> and I can't work this out, but I have some ideas, I will present my plans on the mailing list - if I get something tangable
[09:12] <ompaul> I just looked in and went - WHHAATTT that is too fast
[09:12] <ompaul> and I have years at this, there is no way a new user can get help in there
[09:13] <LjL> what about we just kick idiots like m_42, if the other way is breaking up the channel.
[09:13] <LjL> i mean
[09:13] <LjL> you can not be familiar with irc
[09:14] <ompaul> mute them might be better
[09:14] <LjL> yet if i type !enter | m_42, you *don't* type it again immediately following
[09:14] <LjL> unless you're a cretin
[09:16] <ompaul> LjL, point
[09:17] <LjL> myself, it's more like i keep seeing questions like, for instance, this one
[09:17] <LjL> [21:16:32]  <scienceboy> ANother question. after its done with all of the errors, it brings up a line that says '/bin/sh: can't access tty: job control turned off'. it then gives me a place that i can type in very basic commands and explore a non-existent filesystem that i can't do anything with
[09:17] <LjL> which i simply cannot answer
[09:17] <LjL> there's been this "job control turned off" problem being lamented for ages
[09:17] <mc44> there are many causes
[09:17] <LjL> there's a bug report about it that i simply cannot much decypher
[09:17] <mc44> iz kernel boog
[09:17] <LjL> and i haven't ever seen a valid answer to that
[09:18] <bbrazil> probably an indication that /dev isn't all there
[09:18] <mc44> its a problem with ata in many cases
[09:20] <mc44> the new kernel may fix some of the problems
[09:20] <LjL> maybe
[09:21] <LjL> still i've seen this tty thing asked so many times, and never had a clue how to answer it. and apparently i wasn't alone, since i very rarely have seen answers
[09:21] <mc44> well the problem is its a symptom of different problems
[09:21] <ompaul> OR we need to actively filter more
[09:21] <ompaul> and persist about people going to urls
[09:23] <LjL> i have a bot filtering in #ubuntu-meta as you know, and that tty question has been asked a couple of times in there - if we had some sort of knowledge base, or simply a few people looked at the questions, perhaps we'd both spot them *and* eventually answer them -- as for URLs, i use the bot 99% of the time (and yet people don't get it, but)
[09:23] <ikonia> this is an interesting discussion
[09:23] <bbrazil> http://www.uclibc.org/FAQ.html#job_control
[09:24] <bbrazil> google is your friend :)
[09:24] <LjL> bbrazil: alrighty, yet after the release of Feisty (and very rarely before) i've started seeing tons of questions related to that error
[09:25] <ikonia> ubuntu doesn't use ulibc does it ?
[09:25] <LjL> i've not doubts that the error itself has existed for ages
[09:25] <mc44> bbrazil: I don't think thats the cause of the problem its a symptom
[09:25] <bbrazil> LjL: I see references to 2004
[09:25] <LjL> and that google will help me determining what it "means"
[09:25] <bbrazil> mc44: indeed
[09:25] <LjL> yet that doesn't help much with diagnosing the Feisty problem
[09:25] <bbrazil> you're going to see that error any time before the pivot_root from the initrd to the real fs I'm going to guess
[09:25] <LjL> mc44: but surely people who've had to deal with Feisty problems that result in that error will know what tricks to try playing, to tackle it.
[09:26] <LjL> google doesn't
[09:26] <ikonia> am I being dumb in that I always thought ubuntu used gnu glibc ?
[09:26] <LjL> ikonia, it says "This isn't really a uClibc question, but I'll answer it here anyways. "
[09:26] <mc44> LjL: you want to see the forums thread about that error, with many different problems and solutions
[09:26] <ikonia> ahhh
[09:26] <ikonia> sorry didn't read - I was just shocked by ulibc
[09:26] <LjL> mc44: point, forums is something i rarely use as a knowledge base, must admin
[09:26] <LjL> t
[09:26] <bbrazil> LjL: it's not an error, it's more a warning that throws people off
[09:27] <bbrazil> becasue it's the thing at the bottom of their screen
[09:27] <mc44> the solution is for the kernel to be better :)
[09:27] <bbrazil> I think the most pragmatic approach is to tell people to ignore that error
[09:27] <bbrazil> a ubotu factoid is probably appropriate
[09:28] <mc44> bbrazil: "ignore"? you can't boot
[09:28] <bbrazil> then the actual problem can be delved into
[09:28] <mc44> oh I see :)
[09:28] <bbrazil> job control is not needed to debug most issues
[09:29] <mc44> problem with a factoid is will still don't know how to diagnose the problem :)
[09:29] <mc44> well at least I don't
[09:29] <bbrazil> the factoid would indicate that the user should look at the lines before that for the actual error
[09:30] <bbrazil> and that the job control message is just an artifact of the fact that the system hasn't fully booted yet
[09:31] <mc44> is it possible to update to the new kernel from there?
[09:31] <bbrazil> probably, but I'd have to experiance the error myself and play with it for a few hours
[09:32] <bbrazil> and it's likely a very non-trivial task
[09:32] <mc44> I guess with a working live cd it would be ok
[09:32] <bbrazil> getting from an initrd rootfs to download a kernel and put it into memory would be an interesting experiance
[09:32] <bbrazil> does this affect the livecd boot, or an installed system?
[09:33] <mc44> seems to affect some people on the livecd some people just on boot
[09:33] <bbrazil> for the livecd they need a newer livecd probably
[09:34] <bbrazil> on disk isn't that hard, as you said once they have a working livecd it's easy with a chroot
[11:03] <ubotu> PriceChild called the ops in #kubuntu
[11:44] <ubotu> In ubotu, dawn_chorus said: "Green is a color"
[11:45] <LjL> enlightening
[11:47] <ikonia> I am enlightened. I am an operating Theaten Level 5
[11:48] <mc44> But are you green?
[11:48] <ikonia> no
[11:49] <ikonia> I'm not that enlightened
[11:49] <bbrazil> are you soylent?
[11:49] <ikonia> soylent ?
[11:51] <bbrazil> but I've got 2 more years
[11:52] <mc44> :)
[11:53] <ubotu> In ubotu, loran said: problem is now resolved thanks to support on the KUBUNTU channal
[11:54] <LjL> yes, and the loran problem is now resolved thanks to kick on the UBUNTU channel