[12:16] <manchicken_> Because I see way too much "try this command" in #kubuntu
[12:17] <manchicken_> The people we're trying to market Kubuntu to don't even know what a command is.
[12:17] <DaSkreech> yeah
[12:17] <manchicken_> And that's okay.
[12:17] <manchicken_> They can learn about more advanced features as they become more advanced users.
[12:19] <DaSkreech> It's a good idea I'm not really knocking it's just that I acan see it growing to encompass a lot
[12:19] <DaSkreech>  the first thing is to dump ubotu'
[12:19] <DaSkreech> s factods
[12:19] <marseillai> does anyone could tell me why i have this sort of things : http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/22989/ and why my debdiff makes 11Mo ?
[12:19] <manchicken_> OMG?!  Did I get it?!
[12:19] <manchicken_> Nope.
[12:20] <manchicken_> No such luck.
[12:20] <manchicken_> Hmm... that one was weird.
[12:20] <manchicken_> I think I got my KDE4 port of systemsettings working.
[12:21] <manchicken_> err, compiling
[12:21] <manchicken_> not working
[12:44] <mhb> manchicken_: still alive?
[12:44] <manchicken_> Nope
[12:44] <mhb> manchicken_: got something for ya
[12:44] <manchicken_> Sure
[12:46] <mhb> http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/6375/oneclickmockupoc3.png
[12:47] <DaSkreech> Neat :)
[12:47] <mhb> that is what I had in mind
[12:48] <mhb> DaSkreech: thanks .o)
[12:48] <manchicken_> Not necessarily a bad idea.
[12:48] <manchicken_> Not exactly what I had in mind, but it works.
[12:48] <manchicken_> Can KJS actually access the filesystem and such/
[12:48] <manchicken_> That'd be neat.
[12:49] <mhb> manchicken_: KJS?
[12:49] <manchicken_> The KDE JS engine
[12:50] <mhb> manchicken_: what do you need that for?
[12:50] <manchicken_> In win32 what's the most popular way for making quick UIs?
[12:50] <mhb> manchicken_: JS? No idea; never coded for windows.
[12:50] <manchicken_> Stick a IE control frame into your program and use HTML/VBScript
[12:51] <manchicken_> Many large applications are built off of nothing but web interfaces inside of GUI programs using IE controls.
[12:51] <mhb> could be, but I dont think we need the same ugliness in Kubuntu :o)
[12:52] <manchicken_> Dreamweaver has quite a bit of that in there, Rhapsody, the help center, all of the popular antivirus UIs are done like that too.
[12:52] <manchicken_> Is that really all that ugly?
[12:52] <manchicken_> KXmlGuiWindow is essentially that.
[12:53] <mhb> manchicken_: well, it is easy to code, but very ugly ... makes the user interface quite inconsistent
[12:54] <mhb> manchicken_: and I am not sure it is the solution with the best performance
[12:54] <mhb> manchicken_: still, if the folks on Windows like it, let them have it ... but for Kubuntu the best choice for rapid UI hacking is python, I believe
[12:55] <manchicken_> How is that any better?  heh
[12:55] <mhb> manchicken_: well, the widgets are the same, to say the least
[12:56] <mhb> manchicken_: I'd like to see your idea how the one-click should look like
[12:56] <manchicken_> I just think we make our interfaces a little to plain.
[12:57] <manchicken_> If you look at some of our most popular programs--amarok, k3b, digikam--you'll see that they're using very aesthetically pleasing UIs.
[12:58] <mhb> you are talking about that mockup?
[12:58] <mhb> that was 5 minutes with qt4 designer :o)
[12:58] <manchicken_> Well, I'm saying we're too simple in our design.
[12:58] <mhb> not the final product
[12:58] <manchicken_> Yeah.
[12:58] <manchicken_> I would be opposed to a search box though.
[12:58] <manchicken_> By time we need a search box we've got too many scripts.
[12:58] <mhb> not true
[12:59] <manchicken_> Remember, this needs to be a place for only the common problems.
[12:59] <manchicken_> Not the outliers.
[12:59] <mhb> do you suggest that when people need to search the internet there is too much information in it? :o)
[12:59] <manchicken_> I do suggest that when you give a user a list of 50 problems to solve it is a bit overwhelming.
[01:00] <mhb> manchicken_: search box saves time
[01:00] <manchicken_> A list of 10 is much less intimidating.
[01:00] <manchicken_> Not in a list of 10 :)
[01:00] <mhb> manchicken_: even if there were 10 options
[01:00] <manchicken_> Naw.
[01:00] <mhb> manchicken_: how much time do you need to read them all?
[01:00] <mhb> manchicken_: and how much time do you need to write two words describing your problem?
[01:01] <mhb> manchicken_: furthermore, search box could help you
[01:01] <mhb> manchicken_: say you read the documentation
[01:01] <mhb> manchicken_: you could write there "It might happen that adept refuses to unlock the database; in that case, try the <link>one-click solution</link>
[01:01] <manchicken_> Search boxes do three things I don't like: they complicate the code (I've been spending the whole day working on porting system settings' search bar), they take up space in the UI that I think would be better spent with more content, and they take focus away from what the user should be doing and put it on the user trying to find what they want to be doing.
[01:02] <mhb> hmm, I disagree
[01:02] <mhb> manchicken_: google might, too
[01:03] <manchicken_> Google is completely different from a search in a GUI application.
[01:03] <manchicken_> Google is for searching for information on something.
[01:03] <mhb> also, there has to be a reason why all major UIs and OSes migrate to search-based applications
[01:03] <mhb> Mac OS X, Vista, KDE4...
[01:03] <manchicken_> We don't want the user searching for the solution.  This program should be providing the solution, not providing a means to search for the solution.
[01:04] <manchicken_> If we design the interface properly, a search bar is unnecessary I think.
[01:04] <mhb> which it does
[01:04] <mhb> so, you think 10 fixes is enough?
[01:04] <manchicken_> Yeah.
[01:04] <manchicken_> I do.
[01:04] <mhb> and for all the others use the command line,
[01:04] <mhb> ?
[01:05] <mhb> that is a half-baked solution
[01:05] <manchicken_> No, for all others we'll need to reconsider this solution.
[01:05] <mhb> at least it sounds so for me
[01:05] <manchicken_> Let's name common problems in need of a solution.
[01:05] <manchicken_> You got gobby?
[01:05] <mhb> not on this machine
[01:06] <mhb> but I am not the perfect guy to discuss it with
[01:06] <mhb> because I have not done support for a loong time
[01:06] <manchicken_> No, but we can still talk and get ideas going :)
[01:07] <mhb> sure :o)
[01:07] <mhb> manchicken_: gobby's here
[01:07] <manchicken_> I'm on gobby.ubuntu in Kubuntu One Click Fixes
[01:08] <mhb> am there
[01:08] <manchicken_> Groovy
[01:08] <manchicken_> Feel free to add to the list :)
[01:09] <manchicken_> Does it only have one cursor?
[01:09] <manchicken_> Weird.
[01:10] <manchicken_> That's a dark blue.  heh
[01:10] <mhb> eww
[01:10] <mhb> sorry
[01:10] <manchicken_> That's a good one
[01:11] <manchicken_> Can you think of any more/
[01:12] <mhb> only of the useful, but not critical ones
[01:12] <manchicken_> Yeah, in all my time in #kubuntu, those are the big ones
[01:13] <ryanakca> since nobody seems to have my magic answer in #ubuntu or google... ctrl:swapcaps switches caps lock with my left ctrl key. How do I make it swap with my right ctrl key?
[01:14] <mhb> manchicken_: I can imagine an application hosting about a hundred of useful scripts, not just critical issues
[01:14] <mhb> manchicken_: little daily workarounds
[01:14] <mhb> manchicken_: I've got an example
[01:15] <mhb> manchicken_: sometimes it happens with Kopete that it doesn't load all the nicknames from the server
[01:15] <manchicken_> Yeah.
[01:15] <manchicken_> I can see that, too.
[01:15] <mhb> manchicken_: a scripty could do that, with one click
[01:15] <mhb> manchicken_: but there are plenty of those
[01:15] <mhb> manchicken_: that's why my UI was search-based
[01:15] <manchicken_> For this one click fixes I see this as being a one-click fix thing for times when things are really broken.
[01:16] <manchicken_> Maybe we could recycle this idea for a general toolbox, but I think the most important part is that we have a one-click fix spot for somewhat more serious and common problems, and that it be as simple and understandable as possible.
[01:16] <manchicken_> Let me see if I can pretend like I know how to use Qt Designer
[01:18] <DaSkreech> argh
[01:19] <DaSkreech> kate needs collab editing
[01:20] <mhb> manchicken_: one more thing comes to my mind
[01:20] <yuriy> manchicken_: working on pretending that as well
[01:21] <yuriy> except that i froze it
[01:21] <mhb> manchicken_: let's say there is a bug in Kubuntu that is not that serious, but still bothersome
[01:21] <mhb> manchicken_: the patch will get delivered slowly, but we can make a quick bash workaround
[01:21] <manchicken_> Sure.
[01:22] <mhb> manchicken_: so people can just "update" their one-click lists and run the script
[01:22] <mhb> just a thought
[01:25] <manchicken_> Okay, I have a mockup
[01:25] <manchicken_> http://imagepaste.nulldigital.net/viewimage.php?id=222
[01:25] <yuriy> so where am i supposed to get the icons
[01:25] <yuriy> some resource file?
[01:25] <manchicken_> Very basic thus far, but yeah.
[01:25] <manchicken_> yuriy: I went to /usr/share/icons :)
[01:26] <manchicken_> mhb: I think icons help folks categorize things in their heads better, I think it helps separate each individual solution better, and I think it just makes the interface look better in general.
[01:27] <manchicken_> I would also argue that we use the most standardizable icons possible.
[01:27] <yuriy> but shouldn't there be some general (theme independent) way to specify an icon?
[01:27] <manchicken_> Like, for the adept solutions one we should use the same icon we use for add/remove programs
[01:27] <manchicken_> yuriy: I think you can get that from some kde config class.
[01:28] <DaSkreech> manchicken_: what session?
[01:28] <manchicken_> DaSkreech: What?
[01:28] <mhb> manchicken_: well, perhaps
[01:28] <DaSkreech> gobby
[01:28] <DaSkreech> the host and name
[01:28] <mhb> manchicken_: but I still like the "a lot of small scripts" idea more
[01:28] <yuriy> manchicken_: so not in qt4 then?
[01:29] <manchicken_> yuriy: http://englishbreakfastnetwork.org/apidocs/apidox-kde-4.0/kdelibs-apidocs/kdeui/html/classKIconLoader.html
[01:29] <DaSkreech> manchicken_: or is that closed already?
[01:29] <manchicken_> DaSkreech: Use default session settings and Kubuntu One Click Fixes document
[01:29] <mhb> DaSkreech: Kubuntu One Click Fixes at gobby.ubuntu.com
[01:30] <manchicken_> mhb: I think that's a great idea, but I think it should be a separate thing.
[01:30] <mhb> manchicken_: why so?
[01:30] <yuriy> also, now i'm getting way ahead of myself, but is there a way to get a button on the toolbar that switches depending on the current state (connect/disconnect button)
[01:30] <manchicken_> mhb: I think the small collection of scripts thing is too confusing for people who only know that their internet is broken and that they need to fix it.
[01:31] <manchicken_> mhb: I also think we should use something like the iconic view for the larger collection of scripts thing.
[01:31] <mhb> manchicken_: I think there is no script that could help you when you plugged out the cable :o)
[01:31] <manchicken_> Though for a larger collection of scripts I can definitely see the benefit of a search bar.
[01:32] <manchicken_> mhb: No, but if you're in a wifi cafe, your network was working, and it no longer is, sending a DBUS/DCOP message to knetworkmanager to reset the connection, or just resetting the network interface and renewing the DHCP lease would very likely fix it.
[01:33] <manchicken_> Or if your wireless router mysteriously restarted and you needed to get a new IP...
[01:33] <manchicken_> And maybe we could take this route into troubleshooting as well.
[01:34] <manchicken_> e.g. "I can't send mail" is the problem, and we do several things, include trying to telnet to their configured mail host on port 25, and report back if we can't talk on port 25.
[01:35] <manchicken_> I keep on seeing so much of this automated help going into things, and I don't see enough of it in Kubuntu.  Our documentation rocks, documentation is frustrating to swim in when you've got so many variables in play.
[01:35] <mhb> manchicken_: for the network connection, I think knetworkmanager should have a "Restart" button
[01:35] <manchicken_> Yeah, but is your mother going to think about that?
[01:36] <manchicken_> The KNetworkManager icon says she's still connected.
[01:36] <mhb> well
[01:36] <manchicken_> Mine wouldn't.
[01:36] <mhb> I guess she should check the documentation, which could advise her
[01:36] <manchicken_> Mine would much rather go to the K menu, click "fix a problem" and then click "My internet isn't working"
[01:37] <manchicken_> Yeah, but that's coming from the point of view that folks should know these things before using computers.
[01:37] <manchicken_> I don't really care for that position :)
[01:37] <mhb> yeah, likely
[01:37] <crimsun> hmm, that means you'll need to build a lot of logic into said fixes, then
[01:37] <crimsun> it's worth investigating whether Ubuntu intends to do something similar
[01:38] <manchicken_> I think documentation should teach folks about how to more effectively use programs and make or extend new ones.  I don't think documentation should have to focus as much on problem solving if it is possible to have automated tasks that will get the job done quicker.
[01:38] <yuriy> gah i think i broke gnome
[01:38] <manchicken_> On purpose?
[01:38] <DaSkreech> crimsun: yeah but as long as it's being done within the Gnome interface we still need to rethink it for KDE
[01:38] <mhb> crimsun: well they don't know about our idea yet
[01:38] <yuriy> no :D
[01:39] <crimsun> DaSkreech: that's my point.  Use a backend and a frontend.
[01:39] <manchicken_> I don't mind asking what they're doing, but I have a feeling I'll get much more of the "well they should know what they're doing already" mindset there.
[01:39] <DaSkreech> the backend are scripts
[01:39] <manchicken_> DaSkreech: Something that would require user interaction will necessitate GUIs, not just simple scripts.
[01:39] <crimsun> e.g., I'm writing pygtk and pyqt frontends for an asoundconf-based tool.
[01:40] <manchicken_> And since I hate python, I think Ruby is an excellent choice.
[01:40] <manchicken_> :)
[01:40] <manchicken_> Doesn't Ruby have good KDE bindings?
[01:41] <mhb> bad choice
[01:41] <mhb> :o)
[01:41] <manchicken_> I'd love to use Perl.
[01:41] <manchicken_> But the guy who maintained Qt.pm seems to have disappeared.
[01:41] <yuriy> crimsun: oh? awesome! (bug 31893)
[01:41] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 31893 in kdebase "Multiple sound cards difficult to manage with asoundconf" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/31893
[01:41] <crimsun> I don't argue too much.  The sabdfl likes Python, hence I may as well not beat my brains out.
[01:42] <crimsun> yuriy: yes, precisely.
[01:42] <mhb> manchicken_: the idea needs to be expanded carefully
[01:43] <manchicken_> crimsun: If we always exercised that mentality we'd all be using VB universally by now ;)
[01:43] <manchicken_> mhb: Naw.  It needs to me kept simple.
[01:43] <manchicken_> The larger version of it, with the lots of scripts, may require more though, but I really think that as far as the one-click fix UI itself it should be kept as simple as possible.
[01:44] <crimsun> manchicken_: Martin, Thomas, and I wrote asoundconf as a backend.  Whoever doesn't like pyqt or whatever can feel free to use whatever bindings (s)he feels.
[01:45] <yuriy> ugh this is kind of annoying.. nuking all the . dirs didn't help
[01:45] <mhb> manchicken_: I kind of think your approach is still a bit incorrect
[01:46] <mhb> manchicken_: because my mother wouldn't be checking K menu for fixes unless she was told to
[01:46] <mhb> (and she can be as easily told to right click the knetworkmanager icon)
[01:46] <manchicken_> Unless she'd seen that choice there one of the thousands of times she'd opened the K menu in the past.
[01:47] <mhb> manchicken_: you sure?
[01:47] <manchicken_> mhb: Why do folks know where to find add/remove programs?
[01:48] <manchicken_> Especially if we call it something like "fix common problems"
[01:48] <mhb> manchicken_: hmm
[01:48] <mhb> manchicken_: this might lead to the same fiasco as happened with Microsoft Help
[01:49] <manchicken_> What's that?
[01:49] <mhb> manchicken_: people learned to ignore it because there never was anything helpful beside "Have you tried switching the computer on and off?"
[01:49] <manchicken_> I'm not talking about troubleshooting just yet.
[01:49] <manchicken_> I'm talking about buttons that fix the problem for you.
[01:49] <mhb> I know
[01:49] <manchicken_> "How do you fix this?"  "click A, and then B"
[01:50] <mhb> but if they don't, will you try them again?
[01:50] <manchicken_> The reset button for knetworkmanager is also good... but I like having a central spot for this, too.
[01:50] <manchicken_> Well, that's the thing.
[01:51] <manchicken_> We'd need to have those scripts be as well constructed as possible.
[01:51] <mhb> seeing your mockup, I fear you are creating a bunch of wizards
[01:51] <DaSkreech> manchicken_: so this isn't a Gib submission?
[01:52] <mhb> the idea was "one click, that's all"
[01:52] <manchicken_> DaSkreech: This is an idea.
[01:52] <DaSkreech> Ok
[01:52] <DaSkreech> is anyone on the Kubuntu One Fixes doc?
[01:52] <manchicken_> mhb: No.  I only see further GUI interaction as necessary when user input is needed.
[01:52] <manchicken_> I am.
[01:53] <manchicken_> 12 would fall under #2
[01:53] <manchicken_> 13 is unnecessary.  I don't think this would be the place for compositing.
[01:53] <mhb> manchicken_: and by user input you mean?
[01:54] <mhb> manchicken_: "Was that helpful to you?" :D
[01:54] <mhb> manchicken_: no, seriously
[01:54] <manchicken_> mhb: kdesu, if you had a "change your hostname" one (VERY BAD EXAMPLE), asking them what to change it to.
[01:54] <mhb> manchicken_: if the user has to click through several dialogs, the UI is kind of bad
[01:54] <manchicken_> I agree.
[01:54] <DaSkreech> manchicken_: not really
[01:54] <mhb> and the mockup suggests that there will be additional window with details
[01:55] <mhb> plus the kdesu window - granting privileges
[01:55] <manchicken_> Ideally each one would only have one dialog... "Your fix has been run.  If your problem has not been resolved please email XXX@XXX with the file /tmp/XXX.log"
[01:55] <DaSkreech> 12 would be wireless has never worked
[01:56] <manchicken_> Wireless never working is a much more complicated fix than this system could address.
[01:56] <manchicken_> Especially since there are so many different hardware configurations to choose from.
[01:56] <mhb> the more I think of it, the more I start to dislike your suggestion
[01:56] <manchicken_> And then we'd have to distribute windows drivers for ndiswrapper, etc.
[01:56] <manchicken_> mhb: Why?
[01:57] <mhb> a) before a release, you could never know what issues there are going to be
[01:57] <mhb> b) people might be angry when it doesn't help - and learn to ignore it, just like MS Help
[01:57] <manchicken_> Common issues will remain constant I think.
[01:57] <manchicken_> You're right there.
[01:57] <mhb> c) I prefer to see the computer work "out of the box", without necessary scripts
[01:58] <mhb> which relates to the network thing
[01:58] <mhb> making it more self-aware sounds better to me
[01:58] <manchicken_> mhb: These scripts aren't for out of the box use.  These scripts are for 6 weeks down the line when you've either done something stupid or something unexpected has happened.
[01:58] <manchicken_> Self-aware is a great idea.
[01:59] <DaSkreech> manchicken_: that brings up my question :0
[01:59] <manchicken_> Having networkmanager be smart enough to detect a problem and launch a troubleshooting system itself would be great.
[01:59] <manchicken_> DaSkreech: Timestamp in the future thing is interesting.  I don't see that one very much.
[01:59] <DaSkreech> If one of the most prevailing issues is I can't get the network working and you need to download these scripts how does that help?
[02:00] <DaSkreech> manchicken_: seen it a bunch in the past few weeks
[02:00] <DaSkreech> For some reason today something keeps setting my clock in the future
[02:00] <manchicken_> DaSkreech: This proggy would be installed OOTB, but the problems would presumably not exist OOTB
[02:00] <DaSkreech> right now it's tomorrow according to my clock
[02:00] <DaSkreech> and I keep setting it back
[02:00] <DaSkreech> till changing the clock killed my keyboard
[02:00] <manchicken_> Do you have a variable speed processor?
[02:00] <DaSkreech>  I quit then
[02:00] <DaSkreech> yes
[02:01] <manchicken_> Those sometimes hose clocks IIRC.
[02:01] <DaSkreech> ok
[02:01] <manchicken_> I know in virtualization you get weird problems with stepped procs.
[02:01] <DaSkreech> what script do I run to fix that? :)
[02:02] <manchicken_> DaSkreech: Don't know.  Never had to solve that problem.
[02:04] <mhb> good night folks
[02:04] <manchicken_> Later.
[02:05] <DaSkreech> bye
[02:17] <RadiantFire> awww... he left
[02:18] <RadiantFire> oh well
[02:18] <manchicken_> yuriy: It looks like iconLoader() was moved to KApplication
[02:18] <manchicken_> for KDE4
[02:18] <DaSkreech> manchicken_: if I disconnect will the document disappear?
[02:18] <manchicken_> Nope
[02:18] <DaSkreech> ok
[02:18] <DaSkreech> Now I know what is it like to install a KDe app :(
[02:24] <manchicken_> What now?
[02:26] <DaSkreech> installing gobby
[02:26] <DaSkreech>  installed like near 30 Megs of stuff
[02:26] <DaSkreech> just to view a text document :(
[02:26] <manchicken_> That's a GTK app
[02:27] <DaSkreech> Yeah I know
[02:27] <DaSkreech> but people keep not installing KDE apps cause they say it's too much of a leap
[02:27] <DaSkreech> to install any app no matter how small all the KDElibs etc come along for the ride
[02:28] <DaSkreech> I installed gobby and was thinking what the heck? what does it need all of this for? Man I'm so getting rid of this as soon as I'm done
[02:30] <ryanakca> anybody know why I can't build this KDE (or, Qt) app? http://pastebin.ca/517262
[02:32] <DaSkreech> Jucato!!
[02:32] <Jucato> morning!
[02:32] <ryanakca> might help if I give the source... http://www.pontohonk.de/kde/ssh.html
[02:32] <Jucato> hi ryanakca!
[02:33] <Jucato> DaSkreech: looky! http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/blogs/katapult
[02:34] <Jucato> DaSkreech: btw, there already seems to be a superkaramba theme to display basket notes. although I'm not sure if editing them in the theme is possible
[02:40] <DaSkreech> Jucato: going to get murdered :)
[03:10] <nixternal> hey, someone install knemo and see if you can find the binary executable?
[03:10] <nixternal> it seems it doesn't install
[03:10] <Jucato> nixternal: check in Service Manager
[03:11] <Jucato> it really doesn't have an executable per se, last I used it
[03:20] <nixternal> how are you supposed to use it?
[03:21] <Jucato> nixternal: you turn on the service from System Settings -> Advanced -> Service Manager
[03:24] <nixternal> ahhh
[03:24] <nixternal> thank you
[03:37] <ace_suares> Goodday, developers. I have a quite weird problem that is probably hard to reproduce
[03:37] <ace_suares> is there anyone that can walk with  me or should I go straight to launchpad and file a bug ?
[03:38] <ace_suares> It concerns openoffice and a very weird 'hang' or 'freeze' after file->open or file->save as
[03:38] <ace_suares> I have had this since dapepr and it might have to do with sshfs, gam_server or maybe skype (who knows?)
[03:41] <ace_suares> okay, time to file a bug .. :-)
[03:43] <DaSkreech> ace_suares: #ubuntu-bugs as well :)
[03:43] <DaSkreech> Jucato: Wikied already
[03:43] <ryanakca> ace_suares: how much ram do you have?
[03:43] <Jucato> DaSkreech: heh :)
[04:10] <Hobbsee> morning all
[04:10] <Jucato> moin Hobbsee!!!
[04:11] <stdin> noo, it's not morning already
[04:11] <Hobbsee> :)
[04:12] <RadiantFire> heh, no, its night silly!
[04:12] <stdin> 03:12 here
[04:12] <Hobbsee> it's midday or so here
[04:13] <DaSkreech> It's 2:13 according to my clock
[04:13] <RadiantFire> quick, everyone else chime in with the current time
[04:14] <ace_suares> 5:14
[04:14] <stdin> time zones are just annoying :p
[04:14] <Jucato> 10:13 AM

[04:16] <ace_suares> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openoffice.org/+bug/117480
[04:16] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 117480 in openoffice.org "OpenOffice 2.2 crashes the machine with File->Open" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] 
[04:17] <DaSkreech> :-)
[04:17] <DaSkreech> ace_suares: you may want to point that bug out on #ubuntu-bugs so they can triage it
[04:18] <stdin> my favourite ubotu quote "breaks (persion)'s machine by running automatix on it. Twice."
[04:18] <RadiantFire> yes, that is a good lart
[04:19] <stdin> it made me actually squeal :p
[04:26] <ace_suares> DaSkreech: meet you there.
[09:10] <_marseillais_> hi
[09:11] <Jucato> _marseillais_: ey hi! sorry I wasn't able to reply last night. I went AFK suddenly
[09:11] <_marseillais_> no problem
[09:42] <marseillai> could someone explain me something. i've done some new packages. they have been build, but there are no deb packages : https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+source/smplayer ! For package i upgrade the deb package are made but not for new package. is it normal?
[09:55] <fdoving> marseillai: https://launchpad.net/+builds/+build/340537/smplayer
[09:56] <marseillai> oki fdoving i look for it and didn't find this page
[09:56] <marseillai> why this deb is not in the page i show you before? for apps wich was allready in repo the package are in this page
[09:57] <fdoving> marseillai: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/smplayer/0.4.12-0ubuntu1 - click on the build arch link, for example 'gutsy i386' then on the next page you find "Resulting binaries" in the upper left corner.
[09:57] <marseillai> oki i didn't saw "resulting binaries" thanks a lot
[09:58] <fdoving> if you look that the URL, the binaries are not shown when you have https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/smplayer/
[09:58] <fdoving> +source
[09:58] <marseillai> fdoving, in fact
[09:59] <marseillai> what i don't understand is that binaries exist, package has been revu but they are not include in gutsy
[09:59] <marseillai> http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?keywords=smplayer&searchon=names&subword=1&version=gutsy&release=all
[09:59] <fdoving> they might be in the queue to beeing accepted.
[09:59] <marseillai> oki
[10:00] <marseillai> there are too many queue in ubuntu for me .... :) i'm lost! :)
[11:55] <Riddell> kwwii: did you do the eps of the kubuntu banner?
[12:07] <kwwii> Riddell: I will finish it today
[12:08] <kwwii> and send it to you in a bit
[12:11] <kwwii> which slogan do we want to use?
[12:12] <Riddell> either your "perfect" one or "Downstream loves you!"
[12:13] <kwwii> hrm, "downstream" is a bit too long for the space available
[12:25] <kwwii> well, I used the downstream one for now, let me know how you like it
[12:25] <Riddell> mhb: ping ping, summer of code has started!
[12:29] <Jucato> ooooh haven't done that in a long time :)
[12:30] <Hobbsee> hehe
[12:30] <Hobbsee> mhb: do i even want to look?
[12:32] <kwwii> Riddell: as far as the a5 advert goes, we will have to use the one from last year
[12:35] <Riddell> kwwii: why's that?
[12:36] <kwwii> Riddell: because that is what Gerry said
[12:36] <Hobbsee> mhb: i see what you mean.
[12:36] <kwwii> Riddell: I wanted to try to use the new gear from the CDs but I cannot do that, as the file is cut into pieces, etc.
[12:37] <kwwii> seems to me like a case of "how little effort can I put into something"
[12:38] <Riddell> does seem a bit silly if we have a marketing person we end up using the same material as last year
[12:40] <Riddell> kghostview doesn't like that eps file :)
[12:41] <kwwii> Riddell: yes, I was wondering why he acted like that
[12:41] <kwwii> Riddell: lol, I can send you a png if you'd like to preview it
[12:42] <Riddell> sure
[12:46] <kwwii> well, it is too big for a png...I'll send a pdf instead
[12:48] <Riddell> seele: are you coming to the kubuntu meeting on thursday?  if you go for membership we can put your blog back on planet
[12:53] <Riddell> Lure: yeah, you can't give back if it has already compiled
[12:53] <Lure> Riddell: will you do it?
[12:53] <Riddell> ok
[12:54] <Hobbsee> Riddell: woo!  more people can blow up planet!
[12:55] <Lure> Hobbsee: just do it - anytime
[12:55] <Lure> Hobbsee: ;-)
[12:55] <Hobbsee> Lure: that requires being grilled with scary questions
[12:56] <seele> Riddell: in Berlin?
[12:56] <seele> Riddell: are you in Berlin?
[12:56] <Lure> Hobbsee: you can do it! and with support already given by some core-devs you should be fine
[12:57] <Riddell> seele: on irc
[12:57] <Riddell> seele: I'm not in berlin no
[12:58] <Hobbsee> Lure: i think they want answers, so, it'll require thought, et
[12:58] <Hobbsee> c
[12:58] <Hobbsee> seele: has \sh killed you then yet?
[12:58] <seele> Hobbsee: eh?
[12:59] <seele> Riddell: what time is the meeting, i might not be around for it :(
[12:59] <Hobbsee> seele: just bits blowing up in irc, etc.  \sh leaving kubuntu, after linuxtag
[12:59] <Riddell> seele: 2100UTC (2300 berlin time)
[12:59] <seele> Hobbsee: ah.. i've been unaware of it
[12:59] <seele> Riddell: ok, i will try to make it then
[01:00] <Riddell> seele: great
[01:21] <Arby> anyone around who knows adept fairly well?
[01:22] <Riddell> not really
[01:22] <Riddell> what's up?
[01:22] <Arby> bug 117435 reports it crashing when trying to install Sun Java jre packages
[01:22] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 117435 in gaphor "gahpor does not start (dup-of: 30344)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/117435
[01:22] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 30344 in gaphor "Gaphor doesn't start" [High,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/30344
[01:22] <Arby> sorry bug 117345
[01:22] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 117345 in adept "adept locks software database if it crashes" [Undecided,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/117345
[01:22] <Arby> I thought this had been fixed
[01:23] <toma> hey guys
[01:24] <toma> I asked it on #kubuntu, but no reply, maybe you can help me? I want to install feisty, but X will not come up properly, is there an alternate way to install it from that cd?
[01:24] <Riddell> Arby: should be fixed yes, assuming he has libperl-qt installed
[01:24] <Riddell> toma: the alternate CD :)
[01:24] <Arby> Riddell: thanks, I'll check that with him
[01:24] <toma> Riddell: hmf. ok. thnxs
[01:29] <toma> Riddell: the alternate cd contains a text based install?
[01:29] <Riddell> toma: yes
[01:30] <mhb> hello folks
[01:30] <mhb> Riddell: yup, I know...
[01:31] <mhb> lets get working :o)
[01:31] <Riddell> mhb: yay!
[01:57] <jjesse> morning
[01:57] <Hobbsee> hiya jjesse
[01:57] <Jucato> moin jjesse
[01:57] <jjesse> morning Hobbsee and Jucato
[02:08] <mars_> could someone make a little revu on this : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5320 it has been rejected after 4 week in gutsy/+queue because i mess LGPL so there are so litle diff compare to the revu version...
[02:18] <Riddell> I'm not sure you're allowed to just add the licence file yourself
[02:19] <Riddell> it needs to be upstream that sets the licence
[02:19] <Riddell> mars_: however I can upload if you want to take the chance that archive maintainers don't agree on that
[02:27] <Riddell> Lure: do you know why the new pyqt4 doesn't have dbus support?  is it just missing from the packaging or is dbus too old?
[02:32] <marseillai> Riddell, but several times i've do that and the i've several package wich pass well with GFDL add in this way and it was ok
[02:32] <marseillai> it seems debian policy allow to change upstream tarball to add licence text wich are missing
[02:33] <marseillai> and kima allready had GFDL add this way in fact
[02:34] <Riddell> marseillai: ok, I'll upload and we'll see what happens
[02:34] <marseillai> oki
[02:34] <Riddell> anyone else see a blank page apart from borders and a combo box on www.ubuntu-uk.org ?
[02:36] <Riddell> new queue takes a random amount of time from no days to several months
[02:36] <Riddell> it can get very frustrating
[02:39] <Arby> Riddell: ubuntu-uk displays fine for me.
[02:39] <Hobbsee> marseillai: sweet talk an archive admin :P
[02:39] <marseillai> Riddell, it was really frustrating with kima I waited at least 3 weeks and then it has been rejected
[02:39] <Hobbsee> will tend to make it quicker
[02:39] <Riddell> Arby: which browser?
[02:40] <marseillai> Hobbsee, yes i'll try the one who rejected kima ! ;)
[02:40] <Hobbsee> :P
[02:40] <Arby> firefox, will check in konq
[02:40] <marseillai> Hobbsee, is tollef an sweet archive admin ?
[02:40] <marseillai> it's him who rejected kima
[02:40] <Arby> Riddell: b0rked in Konqueror
[02:41] <Hobbsee> marseillai: depends :P
[02:41] <marseillai> lol
[02:41] <marseillai> will see
[02:41] <Riddell> Arby: thanks
[02:42] <Arby> Riddell: it returns a javascript error, do you want the error message
[02:42] <Hobbsee> marseillai: if you threaten to upload automatix 3 beta version, with extra crack, he's not so happy :P
[02:43] <marseillai> Hobbsee, you should remember i'm in packaging since few time now so i try to make things clean and i most little things! :)
[02:44] <marseillai> but this evening i'll try to do kalculus! and here i go in a place i don't know....

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[02:45] <Lure> Riddell: from debain changelog, it looks like they just dropped it
[02:45] <Lure> Riddell: but I did not look into package myself
[02:48] <Lure> toma: did you try safe graphics mode? ATI card?
[02:48] <toma> Lure: i did, but it failed as well
[02:50] <marseillai> Hobbsee, it's funny. :) more than merging .....
[02:50] <marseillai> :)
[02:50] <Lure> toma: on my laptop, fesity also does not come with X, due to Sync ranges not being detected properly
[02:50] <Riddell> Lure: someone else was working on packages, not sure if they included it http://bosabosa.org/~dds/debian/
[02:50] <Lure> toma: I just had to switch to console (Ctlr-Alt-F1), add Sync ranges to xorg.cong and /etc/init.d/kdm restart
[02:50] <toma> Lure: not very userfriendly indeed
[02:51] <toma> Lure: i decided to give the alternate a go and I spotted the oem thing on it, so that's what im trying now
[02:52] <Lure> Riddell: according to this https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+source/python-qt4/4.2-0ubuntu1 , debian did not package (install) qt dbus support
[02:52] <Lure> Riddell: python-qt 4.2 snapshots for sure include it, so I suspect it is just not packaged (as it should probably go in separate package, like python-qt4-dbus)
[02:53] <Lure> Riddell: I have teststed 4.2 snapshots and qt dbus event look works now
[02:53] <Lure> Riddell: I can look tonight in python-qt4 and see what is missing
[02:54] <Riddell> Lure: groovy, let me know if you do
[02:54] <Riddell> otherwise I should get to it sometime
[02:56] <marseillai> Riddell, just to learn! yesterday i've merge digikam (at least done the debdiff) https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/117457 but you can that there is two debdiff! the first takes 11Mb the second is much lighter but i've remove all *.po diff . for the next merge what should i send , the one with *.po or the lighter one without *.po ?
[02:56] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 117457 in digikam "sync digikam from debian unstable" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] 
[03:03] <toma> marseillai: why does that report contain "Please sync kftpgrabber 0.9.2~beta1 from Debian unstable."
[03:04] <marseillai> because i made a mystake
[03:04] <marseillai> :$
[03:04] <marseillai> and i can't change
[03:07] <toma> marseillai: if you request for a sync like this, then you have to determine if the changes made in the ubuntu version does not contain any major changes or that the changes are in the debian package.
[03:09] <marseillai> toma, i've follow the merge procedure on wiki .....
[03:09] <marseillai> the debdiff is done this way
[03:10] <marseillai> toma, it's not the good way to do ????
[03:15] <Riddell> marseillai: a debdiff of that size is a bit much to be humanly readable.  mostly the reader of a sync request would be interested in what were the ubuntu changes and why it's ok to scrap them
[03:18] <marseillai> Riddell, oki but ubuntu changes is the debdiff wrote in human way isn't it?
[03:20] <mschiff> Riddell: are there problems with the new kitchensync or why is it not in the 3.5.7 repo?
[03:21] <Hobbsee> mschiff: needs opensync
[03:21] <Hobbsee> mschiff: which isnt in ubuntu/main
[03:21] <mschiff> Hobbsee: yes thats the reason why I wanted to test it again...
[03:21] <mschiff> well kde 3.5.7 is not in ubuntu/main too...
[03:22] <Hobbsee> and the new opensync has a lot of improvements, so we'll do the main inclusion report, etc, then.
[03:22] <Hobbsee> mschiff: it is in gutsy
[03:23] <mschiff> Hobbsee: sorry I was talking about the feisty packages
[03:23] <Hobbsee> i know
[03:23] <Hobbsee> the feisty packages were quickly done
[03:25] <mschiff> Hobbsee: so I can rebuild kdepim to include sync support without problems?
[03:27] <mschiff> BTW: And will the broken mediamanager patches be removed from gutsy kdebase?
[03:27] <Hobbsee> mschiff: no, you'll have to modify the source to make the kitchensync actually build
[03:27] <Hobbsee> Riddell: what's your take on that?  they havent been fixed by _Sime_, iirc.
[03:27] <Hobbsee> i thought we were going to pull them pre-feisty if they werent fixe.d
[03:28] <mschiff> ?
[03:28] <Riddell> marseillai: human readable is best for that
[03:29] <marseillai> oi
[03:29] <marseillai> oki
[03:29] <Riddell> Hobbsee: there were some changes to them as I remember
[03:29] <Hobbsee> mschiff: kitchensync has been modified so it doesnt try to build the binary kitchensync - because that section doesnt build.
[03:29] <marseillai> i'll this afternoon or evening
[03:29] <Hobbsee> Riddell: do they work now, though?  more so?
[03:29] <Riddell> mschiff: what problem do you have with media?
[03:29] <Riddell> Hobbsee: they don't not work
[03:30] <mschiff> Riddell: they get mounted automatically regardless of the settings
[03:30] <mschiff> there is no way to prevent a media from getting mounted if it is plugged in
[03:31] <Riddell> mschiff: mm, yes
[03:31] <mschiff> And there is no unmount option in the contextmenu of a device, just eject
[03:32] <mschiff> see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdebase/+bug/69561
[03:32] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 69561 in kdebase "Mediamanager in kde 3.5.5 does not honour automount setting" [Medium,Confirmed] 
[03:39] <Riddell> mschiff: best thing is to ping _Sime_, but he's usually only online in the european evening
[03:39] <Lure> mschiff: kitchecnsync in 3.5.7 works ok with opensync 0.22 for me, but you need to compile it yourself
[03:40] <Lure> Hobbsee: kitchensync builds nicely if you have opensync 0.22 installed - feisty packages are here: http://www.in.fh-merseburg.de/~jahn/opensync-0.21/
[03:40] <Hobbsee> Lure: cool
[03:42] <Hobbsee> i dont think my little nokia is that flash :P
[03:47] <mhb> Riddell: the first day of soc and I'm pretty angry at pykde segfaulting unexpectedly
[03:48] <Riddell> mhb: when does it do that?
[03:48] <Riddell> mhb: in feisty?
[03:49] <mhb> Riddell: well, I have the .ui set up at qt designer, just some buttons and progress bars. Once I replace Qt widgets with KDE ones, the code won't load
[03:49] <mhb> Riddell: segfaulting, that is
[03:50] <mhb> Riddell: and I have done exactly 0 changes myself - all done through kdevelop designer and pyuic
[03:52] <Riddell> mhb: using kde widgets in designer?
[03:52] <mhb> Riddell: yes
[03:55] <mhb> Riddell: is that a bad practice?
[03:56] <Hobbsee> Lure: come to think of it - do you even have a debian kde extras alioth account?
[03:58] <marseillai> Hobbsee, i can confirm he's sweet! :)
[03:58] <Hobbsee> marseillai: :)
[03:58] <Hobbsee> marseillai: he didnt kill me at UDS, so...
[03:58] <Hobbsee> mind you, no one did.  so they must all be pretty sweet
[04:02] <mschiff> Riddell: ok thanks will try to ping him
[04:02] <mschiff> Lure: cool! will try to rebuild it then
[04:05] <Lure> mschiff: you may only need to change debian/kitchensync.install file to actually package kitchensync files (current feisty/gutsy just ship empty package)
[04:05] <Hobbsee> Riddell: i'll chase both the broken rebuilds and such (kdegraphics)
[04:05] <mschiff> ok thanks
[04:29] <mschiff> Lure: the .install file was not empty but there was no package entry in the control file
[04:30] <Lure> mschiff: ok, so re-add package entry
[04:30] <Hobbsee> mschiff: then you need to add it back
[04:30] <mschiff> I did
[04:30] <Lure> mschiff: in gutsy, kitchensync.install was removed
[04:30] <mschiff> now building
[04:31] <mschiff> well does this mean gutsy will have no sync capabilities?
[04:31] <manchicken> Riddell: I've got system settings compiling.
[04:31] <Riddell> manchicken: oooh
[04:31] <manchicken> Riddell: Just haven't been able to get it running.
[04:31] <manchicken> :)
[04:31] <manchicken> It bitches about DBUS processes being owned by other processes.
[04:32] <manchicken> I'll have to figure that out.
[04:32] <Riddell> ah
[04:32] <manchicken> Just thought I'd update you.
[04:35] <nixternal> wo0t...my first full semester taking honors classes and I got 2 As and 2 Bs and passed with academic honors and excellence
[04:35] <nixternal> like I told my mom and x-wife, haven't had anything academic goodies since 3rd grade :)
[04:35] <manchicken> Riddell: I've committed my changes to systemsettings to the point where it compiles to KDE's svn.
[04:35] <manchicken> nixternal: Good stuff man.
[04:35] <jjesse> conagrats nixternal
[04:35] <nixternal> why thank you!
[04:36] <nixternal> and my business courses...ummm...3 Bs, 2 Cs...not that great
[04:37] <nixternal> and now I start the summer semester tonight...here we go with the long school days again
[04:37] <jjesse> nixternal: take some time off :)
[04:37] <nixternal> I did, one week :)
[04:37] <nixternal> I like this school stuff
[04:37] <jjesse> yeah?
[04:38] <nixternal> ASP.NET, Java, and GUI Architecture & Programming this semester for computer courses, and then I am taking an Ethics course
[04:38] <Daskreech> nixternal: I like Ethics.  You Pretty much have to be Unethical to pass it  :)
[04:38] <Daskreech> at least in my uni
[04:39] <nixternal> hehe
[04:39] <nixternal> the instructor I have is super cool
[04:39] <jjesse> w/ asp.net does that mean you have to have a windows box again :)
[04:39] <nixternal> she is an older lady from Romania...hillarious, super smart, and a great time
[04:39] <nixternal> jjesse: I think so, unless there is a Linux alternative
[04:39] <nixternal> which I need to research a little
[04:40] <jjesse> vmware baby :)
[04:40] <nixternal> Mono?
[04:40] <nixternal> the website states that it runs ASP.NET
[04:40] <jjesse> setup a vmware session to program in
[04:40] <jjesse> i think it does
[04:41] <nixternal> I have a small 20GB partition with XP
[04:41] <nixternal> but I kind of have it in a mess with Qt and KDE stuff last I checked
[04:41] <jjesse> did you take a snapshot?
[04:41] <nixternal> not of windows
[04:41] <nixternal> r&r if necessary
[04:42] <nixternal> imbrandon: you work(ed) with mono correct?
[04:43] <imbrandon> yea
[04:43] <imbrandon> back in the day, i havent in a while
[04:43] <imbrandon> wasup?
[04:43] <imbrandon> ( i planed on getting back into it soon )
[04:44] <nixternal> i.e., I am taking this asp.net course, would I be able you think to do the course with Linux and Mono?
[04:44] <imbrandon> definately, asp.net is the most well supported and 100% implmented features of mono
[04:44] <nixternal> Having Mono (not the disease) is the reason I signed up for asp.net and c# this go round
[04:44] <nixternal> rock on!
[04:44] <imbrandon> it was the first thing to be 100% supported
[04:44] <nixternal> so I can continue being rebelous at school
[04:44] <imbrandon> all classes
[04:45] <nixternal> I can fool a couple into believing the Church of Emacs and St. Ignucious
[04:45] <nixternal> so far every instructor I have had has let me use Linux for everything..they know Windows goes against my philosophy :)
[04:46] <Daskreech> nixternal: What you should do is show them that a) mono is better documented and b) they can play aroundwith way more stuff get into way more theory for way less money
[04:46] <nixternal> Daskreech: first, I need to learn a bit about mono
[04:47] <nixternal> I think JR rubbed off on me with the "ewww mono" stuff ;p
[04:47] <Daskreech> mono is pretty sweet if you are going the .NET way which is pretty sweet
[04:48] <nixternal> dude, assembler sucked...sorry ;)
[04:48] <imbrandon> ScottK, 8080
[04:48] <nixternal> I took it in the early 90s at a tech school while I was in high school
[04:48] <nixternal> err, ya, either 89 or 90
[04:48] <imbrandon> ScottK, hahaha c64 ftw
[04:48] <nixternal> almost as bad as pic programming
[04:49] <ScottK> Yes, but remember I'm ancient.  I've also experience the joy of sorting a dropped punch card deck.
[04:49] <imbrandon> hey i like pic programing
[04:49] <nixternal> PLC/SLC programming with Rockwell/Allen Bradely RSLogic Ladder Logic is easy and fun
[04:49] <nixternal> ScottK: I worked at Unisys in 88 while in high school...I have seen those archeaic machines you talk of ;p
[04:49] <imbrandon> ScottK, ever did low level stuff on the 6502 on the c64 or 128 ?
[04:50] <imbrandon> a whole 1mhz
[04:50] <nixternal> imbrandon: was that you that wanted to take a c64 and build a mini with?
[04:50] <imbrandon> woot
[04:50] <ScottK> imbrandon: No.  The only 6502 machine I owned was the Apple ] [.
[04:50] <imbrandon> nixternal, the cips in c64/128's were 6502's
[04:50] <imbrandon> @ 1mhz
[04:50] <nixternal> c64, vic20, trash80
[04:51] <ScottK> Trash 80 was 8080
[04:51] <imbrandon> nah the vic had something else
[04:51] <nixternal> ya, but I still have it
[04:51] <nixternal> and it works
[04:51] <imbrandon> and the trs80 was an 8080
[04:51] <imbrandon> yea
[04:51] <nixternal> scary
[04:51] <nixternal> I was a teenager for those
[04:51] <nixternal> wow
[04:51] <nixternal> I bet ryanakca is like dude, I remember nintendo ;D
[04:51] <imbrandon> lol
[04:52] <nixternal> I want to buy an itx setup and stick it in a c64
[04:52] <nixternal> replace the guts
[04:52] <nixternal> shoot, I can probably put 2 itx setups in that c64 housing
[04:53] <imbrandon> nixternal, i did it
[04:53] <nixternal> imbrandon: I knew that was you
[04:53] <nixternal> we talked about it last year
[04:53] <nixternal> jeesh, time has flown
[04:53] <imbrandon> yea i put a slimline dvd in and a 1ghz C7 proc
[04:53] <nixternal> nice
[04:53] <imbrandon> 80 gig hdd
[04:53] <imbrandon> etc
[04:54] <imbrandon> actualy 1.5 ghz c7
[04:54] <imbrandon> one sec, i have ubuntu loaded on it ( with full screen vice )
[04:54] <nixternal> I have been watching the prices on newegg
[04:54] <nixternal> there is a guy in my lug that makes his money with itx systems and linux
[04:55] <nixternal> he loads them with slackware, and makes them file servers...cheap, fast, and secure
[04:55] <nixternal> he is making a killing
[04:55] <imbrandon> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/23093/
[04:56] <nixternal> that is awesome
[04:56] <nixternal> haha, @c64
[04:56] <imbrandon> :)
[04:56] <nixternal> our next LUG meeting this guy is supposed to bring in a bunch of Linux servers that are smaller than a pack of cigarettes
[04:57] <DaSkreech> no no no no no yes :)
[04:57] <nixternal> it has a power plugin and a cat5 port and that's it
[04:57] <nixternal> I guess they mess with them at either UIC or IIT in the city
[04:57] <imbrandon> yea
[04:57] <imbrandon> we have one or two here
[04:57] <nixternal> I have seen pics online, but never seen one of them run
[04:58] <imbrandon> nixternal, http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS2154184680.html   <-- size of a playing card
[04:59] <nixternal> ya, we seen one of those at Flourish...the President of Neuros brought one out..they use it in their media box
[04:59] <nixternal> of which I am waiting for one
[04:59] <nixternal> actually...that might be a little smaller than the ones he had
[05:02] <imbrandon> 10 x 7.2 cm
[05:03] <imbrandon> anyhow, i need to head home, bbiab
[05:24] <JuJuBee> I am having a problem running user management from kcontrol as well as system settings.  Jucato_ suggested I try here.  When I run userconfig or kdesu userconfig, I get the following... (I removed the X errors...) http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/23099/
[05:26] <JuJuBee> It was working this morning.  Since then, I installed kde theme manager and did a kubuntu upgrade/update
[05:26] <Riddell> JuJuBee: in feisty?
[05:26] <JuJuBee> Yes, sorry.
[05:26] <Riddell> err, hmm
[05:27] <Riddell> poke _Sime_ ^^
[05:30] <JuJuBee> Oh yea, I have tried reinstalling kde-guidance already.
[05:38] <Riddell> kwwii: would you still have AI open?
[06:27] <bddebian> Heya
[06:29] <Hobbsee> hiya
[06:29] <bddebian> Hi Hobbsee
[06:37] <JuJuBee> Can anybody here help with a user management problem ? http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/23115/
[06:39] <Riddell> JuJuBee: try e-mailing sime simon@simonzone. com
[06:39] <JuJuBee> Ok, thanks.
[06:53] <Hobbsee> !away | ace_saures_away
[06:53] <ubotu> ace_saures_away: Please don't use public away messages or change your nick to 'someone|away'.  We know you're away when you don't respond to messages. Also see !guidelines and !nickspam
[06:55] <n8k99> hi Hobbsee
[06:56] <Hobbsee> heya
[06:56] <marseillai> Hobbsee: did i do right for my kubuntumeeting edition ?
[06:57] <Hobbsee> marseillai: looks fine to me
[06:58] <marseillai> oki
[06:58] <ace_suares> sorry hobsee.
[07:02] <Hobbsee> ace_suares: no problem
[07:17] <montoya> Riddell: hi
[07:22] <Riddell> hi montoya
[08:30] <Lure> Riddell: re python-qt4> debain packager has dbus version ready, but want feedback from pythin packagers before upload
[08:30] <Lure> Riddell: http://diotavelli.net/files/deb/
[08:31] <Lure> Riddell: he expect that it should be in the archives in a week
[08:31] <Riddell> Lure: great
[08:31] <Lure> Riddell: I will test it tonight and will report back to him...
[08:34] <acidBURN> that I would ask, if kde4 is going to be a major leap for kubuntu  :-S
[08:36] <Riddell> "even more bugs!"
[08:36] <Hobbsee> mmm....bugs....
[08:41] <Riddell> http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/kubuntu_banner.pdf  I like it :)
[08:45] <nixternal> Riddell: hahahah, nice banner :)
[08:47] <Lure> Riddell: who is leaving k-council beside toma?
[08:48] <Hobbsee> Lure: allee or tonio, raphink, iirc
[08:49] <Lure> Hobbsee: this was discussed at uds I suspect?
[08:49] <Hobbsee> Lure: bits, yeah
[08:50] <nixternal> jeesh
[08:50] <nixternal> so that leaves like 3 people
[08:51] <Hobbsee> nixternal: that's the point - rotate hafl the council
[08:51] <nixternal> cool
[08:54] <marseillai> Riddell: for this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/k3b/+bug/44524 wich is still open since dapper even with a patch we have. I've speak with trueg (k3b dev) and he tells me the better way to solve it is to go back to normal version and make a symlink beetween normalize and normalize-audio as it is told in the bug report. do you want me to do it or it is something bad to do this symlink ?
[08:54] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 44524 in k3b "k3b uses wrong normalize binary name" [Medium,Confirmed] 
[08:57] <Riddell> marseillai: if it works that seems fine.  check the changelog I guess to make sure it hasn't been removed for a reason
[08:57] <marseillai> oki
[08:57] <marseillai> i check
[08:57] <marseillai> in fact
[08:57] <marseillai> a patch has been done
[08:58] <marseillai> but it had never work
[08:58] <Riddell> marseillai: k3b needs merging with debian first as I remember
[08:58] <marseillai> arf i forgot it
[08:58] <marseillai> i'll check first if my idea works
[08:58] <marseillai> because merging k3b is a little bit too hard atm
[09:04] <nixternal> shouldn't the symlink be done with debian/postinst
[09:07] <marseillai> nixternal: i can't set a file in debian dirs and install it ?
[09:07] <marseillai> as you want
[09:08] <nixternal> sure, but not link that I know of
[09:08] <marseillai> tell me what's the cleaner way
[09:08] <nixternal> I thought all symlinking was done with the .postinst
[09:08] <nixternal> I could be wrong though
[09:08] <marseillai> install my wa is something i know
[09:08] <marseillai> yours is something i have to learn
[09:08] <marseillai> oki
[09:08] <marseillai> :)
[09:08] <nixternal> if it works then I guess it is fine right :)
[09:24] <acidBURN> is KDE4 going to be a major jump for kubuntu ?
[09:28] <fdoving> definitely.
[09:31] <acidBURN> great, this would give much needed for kubuntu group
[09:32] <acidBURN> fdoving: heard they are going to use a unified database scheme for kde4 ?
[09:33] <fdoving> seen some discussion about it, yes.
[09:34] <acidBURN> great
[09:48] <ryanakca> nixternal: lol
[09:49] <DaSkreech> What about Language barrier would make a  post offensive?
[09:50] <ryanakca> That was the extent of my gaming until we got an xbox a couple of years ago.
[09:51] <ryanakca> nixternal: did you get that moin2docbook working?
[09:51] <DaSkreech> nixternal: meta howtos?
[09:56] <DaSkreech> nixternal: you have howto twice in the title :-P
[10:03] <DaSkreech> What's KDE matchmaker?
[10:05] <fdoving> matchmaker?
[10:06] <DaSkreech> Yeah
[10:06] <fdoving> i don't understand the question.
[10:06] <DaSkreech> It' on the dot
[10:07] <DaSkreech> http://akademy2007.kde.org/codingmarathon/bof.php
[10:07] <DaSkreech> It's on that page as well
[10:07] <fdoving> ah.
[10:08] <fdoving> probably a KDE dating service.
[10:08] <RadiantFire_> lol
[10:12] <Lure> nice, kubuntu-desktop is installable again in gutsy
[10:18] <nixternal> ryanakca: that moin2docbook thing for moinmoin is an absolute mess
[10:19] <nixternal> I spoke with the devs and there is no plans on maintaining it, and they stated it hasn't worked yet
[10:51] <ryanakca> nixternal: aww, pity
[10:55] <marseillai> Riddell: for k3b it works! we have to remove kubuntu_101_rename_normalize.diff and make a ln -s /usr/bin/normalize-audio /usr/bin/normalize
[10:55] <marseillai> i'll do the patch tomorrow this evening it's a bit too late
[10:56] <Riddell> ok
[11:06] <mschiff> _Sime_: ping
[11:31] <n8k99> anyonein here have ops in #kubuntu
[11:32] <Daskreech> n8k99: you can type !kops in #kubuntu
[11:32] <Daskreech> Sup?
[11:32] <n8k99> ah i knew there was some thing like that