[09:11] <sacater> @time
[09:11] <ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: May 29 2007, 07:11:23 - Next meeting: Kernel Team in 7 hours 48 minutes
[10:22] <sacater> @time
[10:22] <ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: May 29 2007, 08:22:31 - Next meeting: Kernel Team in 6 hours 37 minutes
[10:23] <juliux> @schedule
[10:23] <ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 29 May 15:00: Kernel Team | 29 May 21:00: Community Council | 30 May 12:00: Edubuntu | 30 May 20:00: Xubuntu Developers | 31 May 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 21:00: Kubuntu Developers
[10:28] <txwikinger> @schedult belin
[10:28] <txwikinger> @schedule berlin
[10:28] <ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 29 May 17:00: Kernel Team | 29 May 23:00: Community Council | 30 May 14:00: Edubuntu | 30 May 22:00: Xubuntu Developers | 31 May 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 23:00: Kubuntu Developers
[12:18] <highvoltage> @schedule
[12:18] <ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 29 May 15:00: Kernel Team | 29 May 21:00: Community Council | 30 May 12:00: Edubuntu | 30 May 20:00: Xubuntu Developers | 31 May 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 21:00: Kubuntu Developers
[12:19] <Riddell> man, I hate having kubuntu meetings scheduled, this channel always gets highlighted
[12:20] <highvoltage> Riddell: do you have a hilight on "kubuntu" ?
[12:20] <Riddell> yes
[12:23] <highvoltage> Riddell: does this hilight for you? kubuntu
[12:23] <highvoltage> oops, I hilighted your nick
[12:23] <highvoltage> kubuntu
[12:23] <highvoltage> ^^^ did that hilight?
[12:25] <Riddell> well, yes
[12:26] <highvoltage> kubuntu ?
[12:26] <highvoltage> irssi is supposed to not hilight it if you insert junk like ^B^B in there. so I thought that the bot could be changed to do that. but that doesn't seem like it will work :/
[12:44] <DarkSun88> Hi all
[01:35] <Hobbsee> @schedule sydney
[01:35] <ubotu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 30 May 01:00: Kernel Team | 30 May 07:00: Community Council | 30 May 22:00: Edubuntu | 31 May 06:00: Xubuntu Developers | 01 Jun 02:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Jun 07:00: Kubuntu Developers
[02:17] <yarddog> @schedule denver
[02:17] <ubotu> Schedule for America/Denver: 29 May 09:00: Kernel Team | 29 May 15:00: Community Council | 30 May 06:00: Edubuntu | 30 May 14:00: Xubuntu Developers | 31 May 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 15:00: Kubuntu Developers
[03:50] <effie_jayx> !schedule caracas
[03:50] <PriceChild> @
[03:51] <svaksha> @schedule caracas
[03:51] <ubotu> Schedule for America/Caracas: 29 May 11:00: Kernel Team | 29 May 17:00: Community Council | 30 May 08:00: Edubuntu | 30 May 16:00: Xubuntu Developers | 31 May 12:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 17:00: Kubuntu Developers
[04:19] <DarkSun88> @schedule italy
[04:19] <DarkSun88> @schedule rome
[04:19] <ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 29 May 17:00: Kernel Team | 29 May 23:00: Community Council | 30 May 14:00: Edubuntu | 30 May 22:00: Xubuntu Developers | 31 May 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 23:00: Kubuntu Developers
[04:20] <sbalneav> @schedule winnipeg
[04:20] <ubotu> Schedule for America/Winnipeg: 29 May 10:00: Kernel Team | 29 May 16:00: Community Council | 30 May 07:00: Edubuntu | 30 May 15:00: Xubuntu Developers | 31 May 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 16:00: Kubuntu Developers
[04:38] <jsgotangco> @schedule manila
[04:38] <ubotu> Schedule for Asia/Manila: 29 May 23:00: Kernel Team | 30 May 05:00: Community Council | 30 May 20:00: Edubuntu | 31 May 04:00: Xubuntu Developers | 01 Jun 00:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Jun 05:00: Kubuntu Developers
[04:39] <effie_jayx> @shedule caracas
[04:40] <zul> @schedule now
[04:40] <jsgotangco> oh kernel in a few minutes
[04:51] <fernando> @schedule Sao_Paulo
[04:51] <ubotu> Schedule for America/Sao_Paulo: Current meeting: Kernel Team | 29 May 18:00: Community Council | 30 May 09:00: Edubuntu | 30 May 17:00: Xubuntu Developers | 31 May 13:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 18:00: Kubuntu Developers
[05:01] <BenC> Ok, everyone here?
[05:01] <pkl_> yes
[05:01] <zul> yep
[05:01] <BenC> Anyone who wants to follow along, agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting although we only loosely follow it
[05:02] <BenC> This meeting, I wanted to start off with the team catching each other up on what we're doing
[05:03] <BenC> Kyle just reminded me that rtg (Tim) probably is on vacation
[05:03] <pkl_> on a raft in Montana somewhere...
[05:03] <BenC> I'll start. but I'm pretty basic. Been merging patches from feisty into gutsy kernel, and sending those patches upstream. Working on a -6.12 upload right now
[05:04] <BenC> Today I'll start merging some more patches, some of the bigger ones like toshiba_acpi
[05:04] <BenC> I may end up doing that in linux-ubuntu-modules instead, and disable the one in the kernel
[05:05] <BenC> kylem: how you been doing?
[05:06] <kylem> i haven't really done anything kernel related in the las tweek.
[05:06] <kylem> getting intel X support up to snuff for gutsy and then back for feisyt.
[05:07] <BenC> mobile stuff?
[05:08] <kylem> BenC_, no.
[05:08] <BenC_> Ok, we can catch up on the other stuff later then
[05:08] <BenC_> pkl_: how's things with you?
[05:10] <pkl_> I've been following post-feisty kernel upload bugs and emails.  Going to start a new release, and integrate the current crop of patches to be put in.
[05:10] <BenC> pkl_: did you discover what caused the storage bug?
[05:10] <cr3> kylem: I noticed important changes to the intel X driver in gutsy such as support for rotation
[05:10] <pkl_> In addition, done a bit of work on the mobile stuff, mainly Unionfs 2.0 status, and ODF (On disk format) investigation
[05:11] <pkl_> Will be falling back to looking at Squashfs instrumentation to investigate the liveCD slowdown soon.
[05:12] <pkl_> What storage bug BTW?  There's lots of the upload broke booting, fstab, resume etc.  All down to the reversion of libata support for PATA.
[05:12] <BenC> I don't think it's really a bug, but some people noticed hdX changing to sdX
[05:13] <BenC> I think they had hardcoded stuff in fstab, not using UUID's
[05:13] <BenC> or maybe it was sdX to hdX
[05:13] <pkl_> Most seem to have noticed sdX changing to hdX...  All the breakage seems to have been caused by hardcoding devices in various files.
[05:14] <BenC> one other common non-bug I noticed was people complaining we "broke" their locally compiled modules, so I'm suggesting to Kees to update the security notices on ABI bump kernels to include a note saying "ABI changes, recompile your locally compiled modules"
[05:15] <BenC> pkl_: any real regressions come out of that?
[05:16] <pkl_> Couple of people complaining that the ps/2 fix doesn't fix VIA chipsets.  Some VIA chipsets seem to be exhibiting the same problems as SiS chipsets, but the fix doesn't work and so the underlying cause is obviously different.  What the cause is however is not apparent.
[05:16] <BenC> pkl_: Are the VIA chipsets a regression from edgy still?
[05:18] <pkl_> I've not any regressions so far...  There's been some complaints that some -16.28 packages have been missing, or dependencies still based on -15.27...
[05:18] <mdz> pkl_: what's the status of the mobile kernel flavour?
[05:18] <mdz> pkl_: did you receive the config from intel?
[05:18] <BenC> pkl_: We can discuss this more on kernel-team@ if you need some help with these bugs...sounds like overall there weren't any major issues with -16 vs. -15
[05:19] <pkl_> The VIA chipsets are a regression from edgy, in addition mice on VirtualPC are still broken.
[05:19] <pkl_> mdz:  I've received nothing from Intel.
[05:19] <BenC> Ok, I remember the VirtualPC one being the initial test case...I couldn't get VirtualPC working though
[05:19] <BenC> mdz: Re: Intel-Mobile stuff, we haven't gotten a single bit from them, that I know of
[05:20] <BenC> mdz: Should Phillip post to ubuntu-mobile requesting updates on kernel side?
[05:21] <mdz> BenC: he should contact rob rhoads directly
[05:21] <BenC> Ok
[05:21] <mdz> and then mail ubuntu-mobile to let folks know what's happening, once there's something to tell
[05:23] <BenC> Noted, thanks
[05:23] <BenC> I want to skip ahead to KVM/cr3 topic...
[05:24] <cr3> ahoy, the KVM has been connected to each desktop in the hardware certification lab
[05:24] <cr3> to access the hardware certification network, I have decided to configure a VPN with dynamic addressing so that multiple can connect at the same time
[05:25] <BenC> What software do we use to access it?
[05:25] <cr3> to access the machines, there is a Java client which enables the user to select the machine
[05:26] <cr3> to poweron the machines, the machines are connected to PDUs which can manage the power to the machines
[05:26] <cr3> the BIOS of the machines are all configured to poweron when power is detected on the power supply
[05:26] <cr3> this is necessary because the machines are still located in an office which becomes prohibitively hot when the machines are all turned on
[05:27] <BenC> So we should power them down when we aren't using them?
[05:27] <cr3> to address this problem, I will be sending quotes for colocation centers this afternoon which should be approved in a matter of a week or two
[05:27] <cr3> BenC: ideally, yes
[05:28] <cr3> the process of configuring the VPN and using the client software should be straightforward, the problem is mostly having to deal with the PDUs which I would like to spare for you guys
[05:28] <BenC> Is there a howto page where we can go on how to configure the vpn and client?
[05:28] <cr3> so, I see a couple options: 1. until we get a colocation center, the distro team could ping me to poweron machines; 2. I could provide detailed instructions on managing the PDUs sometime this week.
[05:28] <BenC> I have to be honest, it's been years since I used a VPN on Linux
[05:29] <cr3> BenC: not yet, but it's on my TODO list. when would you like the instructions, just for the VPN and client to start with?
[05:30] <BenC> yeah, just being able to test this setup would be a good first step
[05:31] <cr3> BenC: sure, I could aim to provide these instructions sometime tomorrow and how should I inform the distro team about it?
[05:31] <BenC> Any chance the machines could have a CDRW media inserted in them constantly so we can do "burn ISO, reboot to livecd, install, reboot to new system" tests?
[05:32] <BenC> cr3: I can give you an email address to send it to
[05:32] <cr3> BenC: about half the machines don't even have a CDROM device because I often receive bare motherboards from Intel
[05:32] <BenC> cr3: Ah, right...is there a PXE boot server?
[05:33] <cr3> BenC: yes, and I would like to spend the next couple weeks improving the usability of the PXE boot server which I call a certification appliance
[05:33] <cr3> the reason for this naming is that I would eventually like it to become a reusable component, for people like Intel for example
[05:34] <BenC> cool
[05:34] <cr3> mvo has also expressed interest in running a certification appliance, just for the automatic building process
[05:35] <cr3> so, we could schedule discussing the certification appliance at the next kernel meeting in a couple weeks
[05:35] <BenC> Sounds good...thanks for your time cr3
[05:35] <cr3> BenC: does that seem like a reasonable timeline for you?
[05:35] <BenC> yes, right after Tribe 1 is when we'll probably want to start using it
[05:36] <BenC> that's when our bug level increases from more exposure
[05:36] <cr3> IOU: 1. VPN and KVM client instructions tomorrow; 2. certification appliance on June 12th.
[05:36] <cr3> we should also consider discussing the status of colocation at the next meeting
[05:36] <BenC> Ok, noted for next agenda
[05:36] <cr3> thanks!
[05:37] <BenC> have a good week cr3, and thanks again
[05:37] <BenC> Alright, moving on to Tribe 1 preparation
[05:38] <BenC> 2.6.22-rc3, aka Ubuntu-2.6.22-6.12, was uploaded this morning, but I have a ppc build failure to contend with
[05:39] <BenC> I'll have that done by today, and do lum/lrm/meta behind it, so hopefully by the end of tomorrow, things will be stable
[05:39] <effie_jayx> @schedule caracas
[05:39] <ubotu> Schedule for America/Caracas: Current meeting: Kernel Team | 29 May 17:00: Community Council | 30 May 08:00: Edubuntu | 30 May 16:00: Xubuntu Developers | 31 May 12:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 17:00: Kubuntu Developers
[05:40] <BenC> that will give us only 8 days till tribe 1, so this is most likely the kernel that will be in that milestone
[05:40] <BenC> fyi, Tribe is scheduled for June 7th
[05:40] <BenC> *1
[05:41] <BenC> I'm not aware of any showstoppers for this, but anyone have any known issues we should be worrying about?
[05:43] <BenC> Eerie silence :)
[05:43] <pkl_> well  assumed silence meant no from me :)
[05:44] <BenC> You guys running gutsy kernel yet?
[05:44] <kylem> yeah.
[05:44] <kylem> on all my machines.
[05:44] <BenC> nice
[05:45] <pkl_> no, I've been running the test Feisty kernel.  Now it's released, I could move to gutsy...
[05:46] <BenC> pkl_: you gotten a xeon mobo yet?
[05:46] <BenC> probably good if you could keep feisty on at least one machine
[05:46] <BenC> even if it's dual-boot
[05:47] <pkl_> BenC: not yet (xeon mobo).
[05:47] <BenC> well, I think that's it for us...any topics anyone wants to bring up before we cut out?
[05:49] <BenC> Excellent, thanks for coming everyone, and have a good week...thanks to pkl and rtg (absent) for their first security uploads this past week
[06:15] <gpocentek> :)
[06:16] <gpocentek> eh, wrong chan
[06:23] <Lure> @schedule ljubljana
[06:23] <ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Ljubljana: Current meeting: Kernel Team | 29 May 23:00: Community Council | 30 May 14:00: Edubuntu | 30 May 22:00: Xubuntu Developers | 31 May 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 23:00: Kubuntu Developers
[07:13] <nixternal> @schedule chicago
[07:13] <ubotu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 29 May 16:00: Community Council | 30 May 07:00: Edubuntu | 30 May 15:00: Xubuntu Developers | 31 May 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 16:00: Kubuntu Developers | 05 Jun 14:00: Technical Board
[07:19] <n3t0> LuizArmesto, \o/
[07:20] <LuizArmesto> n3t0: ;)
[07:59] <profoX`> !schedule Brussels
[07:59] <profoX`> heh..
[07:59] <profoX`> @schedule Brussels
[07:59] <ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Brussels: 29 May 23:00: Community Council | 30 May 14:00: Edubuntu | 30 May 22:00: Xubuntu Developers | 31 May 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 23:00: Kubuntu Developers | 05 Jun 21:00: Technical Board
[08:00] <juliux> @schedule berlin
[08:00] <ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 29 May 23:00: Community Council | 30 May 14:00: Edubuntu | 30 May 22:00: Xubuntu Developers | 31 May 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 23:00: Kubuntu Developers | 05 Jun 21:00: Technical Board
[08:15] <amachu> hi.. it will be 2.30 AM here in India for me to attend the CC meeting
[08:15] <amachu> i will try my level best.. to wake up back..
[08:15] <amachu> :-)
[08:23] <LuizArmesto> @schedule Brazil
[08:24] <LuizArmesto> @schedule Brazil/West
[08:24] <ubotu> Schedule for Brazil/West: 29 May 17:00: Community Council | 30 May 08:00: Edubuntu | 30 May 16:00: Xubuntu Developers | 31 May 12:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 17:00: Kubuntu Developers | 05 Jun 15:00: Technical Board
[08:24] <n3t0> @schedule SaoPaulo
[09:34] <WaVeR> Hi
[09:34] <stgraber> hi WaVeR
[09:37] <Toxicity999> Man... I hope I don't miss my turn for member interview. I'm supposed to be off around 6-8, but then it's a *huge* list.
[09:38] <stgraber> hehe, the meeting will be starting at 23:00 here, I hope it'll end up before 04:00 :)
[09:38] <Toxicity999> Oh yea, I was talking eastern
[09:39] <Toxicity999> So I suppose that means 24-02 I'm *supposed* to be gone.
[09:39] <Toxicity999> Your time anywho.
[09:42] <Toxicity999> I hope it works out =[ I don't have much of an option, I'm generally off that time every night So we can occasionally get a phone call (hehe, dialup right now)
[09:49] <Tribaal> Hi folks
[09:54] <Tribaal> room is pretty quiet for a council...
[09:54] <superm1> Tribaal, it doesnt start for 1hr 5min i thought?
[09:55] <bandb|work> yeah, its an hour away
[09:55] <Tribaal> err forgive me, I messed up the timezone settings :)
[10:04] <sacater> @time
[10:04] <ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: May 29 2007, 20:04:53 - Next meeting: Community Council in 55 minutes
[10:20] <n3t0> FaBMak, ae
[10:20] <FaBMak> opa
[10:32] <towsonu2003> @time
[10:32] <ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: May 29 2007, 20:32:38 - Next meeting: Community Council in 27 minutes
[10:46] <OgMaciel> hello
[10:46] <OgMaciel> Seveas: ping
[10:46] <Seveas> hi OgMaciel
[10:47] <OgMaciel> hey Seveas... just wanted to leave my +1 for sfair and n3t0... I may not be around
[10:48] <OgMaciel> Seveas: would you pass my message on to the CC?
[10:48] <Toxicity999> Given that I'm last on the list for member interviews, anyone have a good approximation of when I'll be up? I have to leave for like an hour through the meeting =S not my choice.
[10:48] <amachu> hi
[10:49] <Seveas> Toxicity999, the list is too long for one meting, i expect that only half of the people on the list will get called
[10:50] <Toxicity999> Seveas Ah okay, cool.
[10:50] <amachu> its 2:20 AM here in India
[10:51] <nixternal> heh, bdmurray is going for membership?
[10:51] <nixternal> bdmurray: ummmmmmm ;)
[10:51] <towsonu2003> sorry for this - @time
[10:52] <bdmurray> nixternal: indeed I am
[10:52] <amachu> has the meeting started?
[10:53] <Mithrandir> no
[10:53] <Mithrandir> it starts in seven minutes
[10:53] <nixternal> Seveas: big YES from me for Tm_T (Jussi Kekkonen), bdmurray (the bug god), txwikinger (Ralph Janke), effie_jayx (Efrain Valles)
[10:53] <Seveas> nixternal, OgMaciel: yes/no means nothing. Arguments please :)
[10:54] <nixternal> they rock!
[10:54] <nixternal> ;)
[10:54] <Seveas> and you suck. Next!
[10:54] <Seveas> :p
[10:54] <nixternal> grr
[10:54] <nixternal> @lart lart lart!
[10:54] <OgMaciel> Seveas: I have written testimonials for both of them
[10:54] <nixternal> hahahahaha
[10:54] <Burgundavia> Seveas: be nice, or I might have to remove your membership ;)
[10:54] <Seveas> OgMaciel, on their wikipages?
[10:54] <mdke> nixternal: if you can tell us why, it will help
[10:54] <Seveas> ajmitch, barely
[10:54] <OgMaciel> Seveas: yes.  just wanted a "vocal" +1  ;)
[10:55] <nixternal> man, I need to run....but everyone knows bdmurray already
[10:55] <ajmitch> Seveas: you think another few thousand would help?
[10:55] <sacater> ~time
[10:55] <sacater> ~time
[10:55] <OgMaciel> Seveas: in other words, you could say: "Og said +1 from him"  :)
[10:55] <sacater> ~time
[10:55] <sacater> @time
[10:55] <ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: May 29 2007, 20:55:25 - Current meeting: Community Council
[10:55] <nixternal> Tm_T is a big help in Kubuntu with a ton of things, if Riddell is around I am sure he will pimp him and so with the other Kubuntu guys
[10:55] <Seveas> sacater, stop it
[10:55] <MikeB-> afternoon all
[10:55] <sacater> Seveas: cant get the keys right
[10:55] <welp> please excuse sacater tonight, he didn't seep at all last night.
[10:55] <nixternal> effie_jayx rocks out a lot of marketing stuff and does way more than I do with Marketing
[10:55] <sacater> welp: 36 hours now :D
[10:56] <sacater> imbrandon: *nod*
[10:56] <nixternal> and txwikinger is in that crowd as well for rocking the marketing scene and I am sure Corey can attest to it as well
[10:56] <nixternal> man sacater too....jeesh
[10:57] <JanC> sacater: wait until you didn't sleep for 3 full days   ;)
[10:57] <nixternal> and pleia2 is rocking the Ubuntu US LoCo scene --- I thought for some reason she was already a member...under a new name :)
[10:57] <sacater> JanC: im doing a sorta sleepathon
[10:57] <welp> JanC, sssh, don't give him ideas!
[10:57] <sacater> JanC: im aiming for all of half-term
[10:57] <Seveas> sriramadas, superm1: around?
[10:57] <welp> ...
[10:57] <superm1> Hi Seveas
[10:57] <pleia2> nixternal: heh, a few people thought I was already a member
[10:57] <JanC> I did that at a festival, so I didn't have anything important to do  :)
[10:58] <Seveas> so, how many of the CC are here now?
[10:58] <welp> yeah, sacater chose a *really* idiotic time to "not sleep"
[10:58] <Burgundavia> Seveas: we are short jerome and mikeb
[10:58] <MikeB-> here
[10:58] <Seveas> MikeB-, is here
[10:58] <Seveas> mako's not
[10:58] <mdke> I won't be able to stay for that long. How many members are we hoping to get through today? All of em?
[10:59] <Seveas> mdke, let's hope not...
[10:59] <sabdfl_> We really need to start delegating membership to teams
[10:59] <dholbach> I'll stay ~2h max too
[10:59] <sabdfl_> jono around?
[10:59] <stgraber> Good evening everyone
[10:59] <MikeB-> I will have to leave in 2 - 2.5 hours
[10:59] <welp> how many new members are there for you lot to recruit?
[10:59] <mdke> has jono vetted the member candidates?
[10:59] <Seveas> ok, let's get started. Order in the room please
[11:00] <Seveas> agenda is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda, first on the agenda is superm1 with the mythtv team
[11:00] <MikeB-> sabdfl_: don't see him, is he traveling today to LinuxTag
[11:00] <Seveas> (sriramadas is not here for derivative team)
[11:00] <dholbach> MikeB-: I though he'd travel tomorrow
[11:00] <nixternal> MikeB-: yes about Jono (read blog)
[11:00] <superm1> Okay, i'll get started then:
[11:00] <superm1> Hi, i'm Mario Limonciello and I'm one of the folks here representing the Ubuntu MythTV team.  We were formed roughly 8 months ago, unofficially. My teamates and I have been working to make MythTV on Ubuntu a very solid experience that is easy to use.  You can see our wiki page at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MythTVTeam
[11:00] <superm1> and some information about our upcoming Ubuntu remix, Mythbuntu at: http://www.mythbuntu.org.
[11:00] <spaceinvader> welp: :P
[11:01] <imbrandon> and I'm here on behalf of the MythTeam too
[11:01] <mdke> Seveas: does anyone know what the issue that is referred to in the link under the derivative topic is?
[11:01] <sacater> spaceinvader: please leave, this is not a good time
[11:01] <superm1> and Daviey and keescook too :)
[11:01] <ubuntu_demon> hey :)
[11:01] <Seveas> mdke, I don't and from the part of the discussion I saw last time, not many people do
[11:01] <Daviey> yep, i'm here
[11:02] <mdke> there is some reference to problems with Canonical
[11:02] <Seveas> I'll poke sriramadas for next meeting
[11:02] <mdke> sabdfl_: know anything?
[11:02] <crimsun> (I've also worked with superm1 from -mythtv)
[11:02] <mdke> Seveas: ok, we'll chase it up via email.
[11:02] <mdke> the mythtv team looks well organised and well supported to me
[11:03] <blizzzek> hi
[11:03] <dholbach> it looks quite well to me too, and I'm happy to see so many people in it
[11:03] <dholbach> how many of the mythbuntu changes go directly into Ubuntu?
[11:03] <superm1> we've also got several folks that regular the forums to troll and help posts
[11:03] <sabdfl_> mdke: problems in connection with?
[11:03] <superm1> so far everything but ubiquity
[11:03] <imbrandon> dholbach, 100%
[11:03] <dholbach> (I didn't see the splash screen package in Ubuntu yet, that's why I asked ;-))
[11:04] <juliux> hi all
[11:04] <dholbach> imbrandon: excellent
[11:04] <superm1> crimsun uploaded it a week or so ago
[11:04] <dholbach> ah ok
[11:04] <superm1> (the splash)
[11:04] <sabdfl_> superm1: i've had very good feedback from people about mythtv on ubuntu, thanks to your team's work
[11:04] <imbrandon> it needed a bit of work, but we're striving to do everytign in the archive
[11:04] <mdke> sabdfl_: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/loco-contacts/2007-April/001281.html is the thread referred to
[11:04] <Daviey> dholbach: were trying to get it in :)
[11:04] <crimsun> (yes)
[11:04] <Klaidas> @schedule Vilnius
[11:04] <ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Vilnius: Current meeting: Community Council | 30 May 15:00: Edubuntu | 30 May 23:00: Xubuntu Developers | 31 May 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Jun 00:00: Kubuntu Developers | 05 Jun 22:00: Technical Board
[11:04] <dholbach> do you have close ties to the upstream folks? are there any in the team too?
[11:04] <Seveas> (remove noise during meeting)
[11:05] <mdke> thanks Seveas
[11:05] <superm1> sabdfl_, we've tried to follow as much input on the forums as possible with things that needed work for feisyt
[11:05] <Mithrandir> I've been unhappy with some of their packages when doing reviews of them; I haven't reviewed enough of them to know whether it's a problem with a couple of people who just haven't had enough training or if it's a systemic problem.  I suspect the former, in which case it's much easier to fix than in the latter case.
[11:05] <Mithrandir> I think it can be fixed by trying to pull them more into the normal workflow, though.
[11:06] <mdke> is there a process in place to deal with the problems Mithrandir mentions?
[11:06] <mdke> within the team, I mean
[11:06] <superm1> Well that was one of the big reasons we are running to be recognized here, we were looking to get a mailing list made
[11:06] <sabdfl_> mdke: oh, no further news from dfarning afaik, and i'm still not sure what he was referring to there
[11:06] <keescook> Mithrandir: I've been trying to help where I know how and to get other MOTU to comment on things I'm less familiar with.
[11:06] <superm1> we currently have IRC at #ubuntu-mythtv
[11:06] <imbrandon> mdke, yes myself and i know crimsun and keescook atleaste have been working on getting everythgin 100% upto standards packing wise
[11:06] <superm1> but not everyone is on at all times
[11:06] <dholbach> mdke, sabdfl_: I'll prod him again by mail.
[11:07] <mdke> sabdfl_: weird. ok We'll follow up with him by email maybe
[11:07] <crimsun> (I tend to be pretty rigorous/harsh in reviewing.)
[11:07] <mdke> superm1: a mailing list sounds like a very good idea.
[11:07] <Mithrandir> also, this was a couple of months back, so it might well have improved.
[11:07] <Daviey> mdke: We applied for it over two months ago - not sure what the holdup is.
[11:07] <superm1> Mithrandir, yes - i think i know which upload your referring too also.  putting some stuff into /home
[11:07] <superm1> and such
[11:08] <Seveas> Daviey, general too-much-work-ness in the admin department
[11:08] <Daviey> Seveas: heh :)
[11:08] <mdke> Daviey: we have a bit of a problem with mailing list creation at the moment; jono is supposedly working on it so hopefully you will have good news soon
[11:08] <sabdfl_> superm1: if you guys are committed to making your changes in the archive, then i see no problem with official recognition of the team, and also of your dedicated derivative
[11:08] <Daviey> mdke: that would be really good.  Where we work on so many different timezones - irc doesn't always work out
[11:09] <mdke> sure
[11:09] <superm1> sabdfl_, the only questionable change to commit back to archive will be the ubiquity - because its such a drastic patch that we are applying to it
[11:09] <mdke> perhaps use -motu for now, and poke jono regularly :)
[11:09] <sabdfl_> superm1: this is to make the system boot straight to myth, right?
[11:09] <Mithrandir> superm1: can't it be modularised or made conditional somehow?
[11:09] <superm1> mythbuntu will create a system that boots right into myth and configures myth
[11:09] <superm1> yes sabdfl_
[11:10] <superm1> Mithrandir, I was going to work with the ubiquity guys after we have our patch fully completed and see how feasible that is
[11:10] <superm1> but atm there are a few things yet for us to finish and determine how much needs changing
[11:10] <Seveas> superm1, isn't it possible to separate that from ubiquity so people can turn their existing ubuntu boxes into mythtv machines?
[11:10] <Seveas> and hook the separate program into ubiquity in your derivative
[11:11] <superm1> We have docs explaining how to do that right now, but no seperate program yet
[11:11] <imbrandon> Seveas, yes, thats also done quite easliy now with the currect meta packages
[11:11] <Seveas> imbrandon, excellent
[11:11] <sabdfl_> i guess there are two use cases: (1) the box is dedicated, and (2) you want to work on it, then turn it into a myth box, then work on it again
[11:11] <mdke> sounds good. The team clearly has some good peopl behind it and good communication, especially considering they don't have a mailing list yet
[11:11] <superm1> (http://help.ubuntu.com/community/MythTV)
[11:11] <Daviey> Seveas: We are trying to get everything to work from exisiting repo's - so you don't need the dedicated release
[11:11] <mdke> +1 from me
[11:11] <sabdfl_> +1 from me, anyone else want to take a view?
[11:11] <Burgundavia> +1 from me
[11:11] <dholbach> I'm very happy with the team as it is, +1 from me too
[11:11] <MikeB-> +1 from me
[11:12] <mdke> nice
[11:12] <Seveas> 5 out of 6, elmo care to cast a vote?
[11:12] <Seveas> or are you already hiding for the next subject? ;)
[11:12] <imbrandon> :)
[11:12] <elmo> +1
[11:12] <Daviey> woo
[11:12] <Seveas> excellent, moving on quickly to covr more
[11:12] <superm1> Yay, unanimous vote  :)
[11:13] <Seveas> Burgundavia, you're on (planet ubuntu editorial)
[11:13] <mdke> superm1: write to us if you don't get your list
[11:13] <Burgundavia> right
[11:13] <superm1> Okay mdke thanks
[11:13] <Burgundavia> we are considering the following spec: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PlanetUbuntuEditorialPolicy#preview
[11:13] <Burgundavia> the idea was mind, kicked up with the recent dell issue and brought again into the light with the \sh issue
[11:14] <Burgundavia> the primary idea behind the spec is to create 1) a palce for people to contact to get illegal crap removed from planet, including accidential breaches of embargo
[11:14] <Burgundavia> 2) a clearly defined procedure for objectionable content
[11:14] <Burgundavia> mdke and myself have been working on the language over the past day
[11:15] <elmo> could we please tone down the 'censorship' language on there?
[11:15] <mdke> this afternoon I added some thoughts which I found in a previous discussion of these issues, by silbs, sabdfl and cjwatson; so it should have a reasonably cc-ed direction, I hope
[11:15] <elmo> I see it's been improved, but it's still all over the use cases
[11:15] <yann2> i am not particularly happy with the "Material is posted which (generally unintentionally) offends another community member."  :(
[11:15] <towsonu2003> 2nd use case looks problematic
[11:15] <mdke> yann2: just to be clear, that is in the Rationale. If you read the spec, it doesn't actually ban such material, far from it
[11:16] <sabdfl_> by illegal, i take it you also mean content which causes legal problems for companies or individuals as well as stuff that is genuinely illegal?
[11:16] <towsonu2003> yann2, me neither, there is too much stuff that might offend at least one person
[11:16] <yann2> "Melanie is a north american conservative catholic feminist, and is _Extremely_ offended by a post from a west european boy"
[11:16] <Burgundavia> what should be very clear: we are not defining what should or should not be banned
[11:16] <yann2> (not related to melissa, but as example)
[11:16] <sabdfl_> just the process for addressing it
[11:16] <yann2> ok :)
[11:16] <mdke> yann2: I don't think you've read the spec very carefully. You've just got stuck at the beginning
[11:16] <sabdfl_> i think the spec could use a little work
[11:16] <mdke> but yeah, the use cases need work
[11:16] <yann2> mdke > i did read it :)
[11:16] <mdke> and the spec in general should have more consultation, I think. It has come onto the agenda rather quickly
[11:16] <sabdfl_> it basically says "it's ok for us to take some stuff off, go here -> to get that done if you think something should come off"
[11:17] <gnomefreak> a very good point was brought up on this in -women, where do we draw the line between offensive/inappoprate and ok to post.
[11:17] <ScottK> Since planet is just a mirror, what would be the point of removing information due to breaches of confidentiality?  Once something's on the internet, you can't really get it off.
[11:17] <Burgundavia> i brought it up for consulation. I full expect it to require more work
[11:17] <Burgundavia> ScottK: it is about best effort
[11:17] <yann2> in \sh comments, it was proposed to divide the planet in planet ubuntu and ubuntu universe, i would support this idea
[11:17] <mdke> ScottK: because of the wide readership
[11:17] <PriceChild> ScottK, but on planet it is representing Ubuntu.
[11:17] <sbalneav> You're going to have to be very clear and explicit about what you consider to be objectionable material that's not suitable for planet.  If you're not, your simply going to end up with arbitrary decisions being made for every case.
[11:17] <yann2> it would allow to be more laxist on the "universe" and maybe define stronger guidelines on the planet
[11:18] <Burgundavia> yann2: that is a seperate issue
[11:18] <sabdfl_> i don't think we should aim to please everyone
[11:18] <JanC> PriceChild: so hiding things that happen inside Ubuntu is good ?  :)
[11:18] <ScottK> OK. Joe posts information.  Jane whines and claims to be Joe's employer.  What's the process for verification?
[11:18] <PriceChild> JanC, Of course not.
[11:18] <sabdfl_> you need something of a robust sense of humour to survive on the net, in any event
[11:18] <towsonu2003> but wouldn't universe work like the Backyard in ubuntuforums.org - a way to burry stuff?
[11:18] <mdke> sabdfl_: +1
[11:18] <Burgundavia> indeed
[11:18] <mdke> sbalneav: I think the general approach is to leave it up to the individual member to decide what they consider suitable. For serious breaches of the coc, like with all mediums, we are here
[11:18] <JanC> sabdfl_: not only on the net
[11:18] <sabdfl_> the recent question from melissa is really interesting in what it raises
[11:19] <MikeB-> this is definate a case of Ubuntu growing pains
[11:19] <kalon33> JanC: sure, in the life too :p
[11:19] <ajmitch> mdke: some people have a *very* broad view of what's acceptable
[11:19] <elkbuntu> fyi, i am here, albeit half asleep still
[11:19] <mdke> ajmitch: I understand that, and people's different personalities are part of what makes planet interesting
[11:19] <JanC> it has been proposed to create both a "complete planet" and a "filtered planet"
[11:20] <ScottK> Who is the filter?
[11:20] <sabdfl_> why not make this doc nice and short, and say "stuff can be removed here, being subscribed is not an automatic right to have anythin you write published here"
[11:20] <Burgundavia> JanC: that gets into a kettle of fish I don't wnt to touch
[11:20] <imbrandon> who filters , based on what
[11:20] <mdke> ajmitch: fwiw, the previous complaints that sparked a discussion on the cc list were about a post dealing with politics that was found offensive
[11:20] <sabdfl_> then point to: canonical admins for emergencies, cc for social issues
[11:20] <JanC> if you don't like the filter, don't use it  :)
[11:20] <MikeB-> we need express to people that the Ubuntu community is worldwide, all nationalities, religions, age groups, etc...
[11:20] <mdke> sabdfl_: yeah, I think it will be better
[11:20] <Burgundavia> sabdfl_: that is pretty much what is there, in the implementation section
[11:21] <sabdfl_> then also, separately, we could have a set of guidelines that mas the CoC to the blogosphere
[11:21] <sabdfl_> just like we have it for IRC, Forums
[11:21] <Burgundavia> what if we just nuked everything but the implementation section?
[11:21] <sabdfl_> i wouldn't mind having a non-CC team delegated to deal with social issues like this
[11:21] <Burgundavia> that deals with the annoying use cases and rationale, etc.
[11:22] <dholbach> I like sabdfl_'s idea. It should be a light-weight straight-forward process. Trying to point out what's allowed and what's not will always put you into problems. The less policy like and the more process like (for emergencies), the better.
[11:22] <kalon33> I like sabdfl_ idea too ;)
[11:22] <yann2> sso basically, remove everything that may pose problem?
[11:22] <towsonu2003> +1 Burgundavia's offer
[11:22] <ScottK> Legal issues and company confidential information are two separate issues and should be deconflated.
[11:22] <yann2> if it offend one person, delete it? bloggers won't like that
[11:22] <JanC> dholbach: true, but then you might get a bias by the judges
[11:22] <mdke> yann2: arghh
[11:22] <sabdfl_> we should equally have a piece that says "hey, don't be a wilting flower, if you disagree with something here, write up a smart, witty counterblog and woo the crowds to your view"
[11:23] <dholbach> JanC: which judges?
[11:23] <LaserJock> yann2: please read what is being said. that was never suggested
[11:23] <imbrandon> sabdfl_, +10
[11:23] <JanC> well, whoever "judges"
[11:23] <sabdfl_> is there an existing team which would be a good pre-CC stop for issues raised along these lines?
[11:23] <markvandenborre> couldn't we make a separation between "on topic" (ubuntu only)
[11:23] <Burgundavia> sabdfl_: just a touch confused. What you propose. Is that not just the implemenation section as written?
[11:23] <mdke> sabdfl_: well, jono
[11:23] <markvandenborre> and off topic (not ubuntu only)?
[11:23] <JanC> i just mean, the "judges" should be chosen carefully   :)
[11:24] <keescook> as long as we can avoid in-planet inter-blog flame wars, the "witty retort" can be nice.
[11:24] <elkbuntu> sabdfl_, and when it comes to the CoC being broken, one would risk counterbreaking it, which is not something that should be encouraged
[11:24] <ScottK> Burgundavia: The implementation section still conflates legal and company confidential in a way that is really problematic in my view.
[11:24] <sabdfl_> Burgundavia: roughly. let me have a stab at tightening it up
[11:24] <imbrandon> sabdfl_, a one man team, jono , heh
[11:24] <dholbach> JanC: to me the solution sounds like a process for emergencies, where things can be discussed - no active judging if or if not posts are suitable.
[11:24] <Burgundavia> ScottK: you are concerned about how it puts the two together?
[11:24] <JanC> well, someone will have to make decisions
[11:24] <mdke> elkbuntu: the problem is that the question of whether the CoC has been broken can be quite subjective.
[11:24] <ypsila> :-D
[11:24] <mdke> I think what will eventually come out of issues like this, and which I've seen raised elsewhere too is the proposal of making some amendments to the CoC which makes it a bit clearer what is actually regarded as disrespectful and inconsiderate. People are having more and more difficulty applying it in various contexts.
[11:25] <ScottK> Burgundavia: Yes as they are two completely separate issues in almost all cases.
[11:25] <ScottK> Breaking a company rule and breaking the law are different
[11:25] <markvandenborre> mdke, I think that idea is fundamentally flawed in a global context
[11:25] <imbrandon> AACS key
[11:25] <markvandenborre> when it comes to non-ubuntu things
[11:25] <yann2> +1 to mdke on the examples
[11:25] <mdke> markvandenborre: you mean the CoC is fundamentally flawed?
[11:25] <markvandenborre> no, not at all
[11:26] <ajmitch> keescook: though some people will certainly just pack up & move on if they're constantly seeing stuff that's blatantly offensive, rather than write up something about it
[11:26] <Burgundavia> ScottK: if you post something in contravention of an embargo, that is actually a legal issue
[11:26] <keescook> ajmitch: yup.
[11:26] <markvandenborre> I mean that in cultural background x, mentioning igasm is perfectly ok
[11:26] <ScottK> It's a contractual issue which is not exactly the same thing.
[11:26] <markvandenborre> in another one, it is not
[11:27] <mdke> markvandenborre: right, that's why the spec suggests reminding posters that the planet is a global community
[11:27] <markvandenborre> and the further you get from ubuntu as the binding factor, the less these
[11:27] <JanC> mdke: what's appropriate is different all over the world, who are we to cut it in stone?
[11:27] <Burgundavia> ScottK: they both need to be dealt with the same way, however
[11:27] <sabdfl_> anybody have a url for \sh's controversial post?
[11:27] <sabdfl_> i didn't see it
[11:27] <ajmitch> markvandenborre: right, how willing should we be to allow offending people then?
[11:27] <mdke> JanC: what we are defining is what is appropriate for global interaction, it's a common denominator.
[11:28] <ScottK> Burgundavia: I disagree.  I'll say again, Joe posts something.  Jane shows up and complains that Joe has published confidential information and is an employee of Jane's company.  How do you verify that?
[11:28] <ubuntugeek> Just curious, is there a way for planet to only pull from a certain section of a persons blog? Perhaps the user if they want to be listed on the planet creates an Ubuntu section and that is the only thing that is polled into the planet feed. Since posts are made on a persons personal blog you are sorta telling them what they can and can't talk about outside the community.. my 2cents.
[11:28] <mdke> ubuntugeek: sure, tags and filters work
[11:28] <keescook> is there anything that recommend people only post ubuntu-related things to planet?  I use an "ubuntu" tag in my blog, just so I have to choose to have a post be included.
[11:28] <gnomefreak> sabdfl_: ill have it in a minute
[11:28] <elkbuntu> sabdfl_, http://linux.blogweb.de/archives/335-Apple-is-not-amused,-but-you-should-be,-when-you-use-it.html
[11:28] <Burgundavia> providing your blogging software supports that
[11:28] <Seveas> sabdfl_, http://linux.blogweb.de/archives/335-Apple-is-not-amused,-but-you-should-be,-when-you-use-it.html  http://linux.blogweb.de/archives/337-My-Appologies-to-everybody-not-living-in-a-free-country.html
[11:28] <Mithrandir> sabdfl_: http://linux.blogweb.de/ ; http://linux.blogweb.de/archives/335-Apple-is-not-amused,-but-you-should-be,-when-you-use-it.html in particular
[11:28] <gnomefreak> or not\
[11:28] <JanC> mdke: I don't think that such a thing really exists
[11:28] <Seveas> lol :)
[11:28] <keescook> Burgundavia: hm, true
[11:28] <profoX`> ubuntugeek: that depends on the blog, but its possibnle with most blogs
[11:28] <imbrandon> http://linux.blogweb.de/archives/335-Apple-is-not-amused,-but-you-should-be,-when-you-use-it.html
[11:28] <gnomefreak> http://linux.blogweb.de/archives/335-Apple-is-not-amused%2C-but-you-should-be%2C-when-you-use-it.html
[11:28] <mdke> JanC: essentially, the CoC is about helping people work efficiently in a large and global community. It's not about dictating what is acceptable in difference cultures
[11:28] <gnomefreak> that would be it
[11:29] <welp> with gentoo, the blogs have a 'gentoo' category, which gets aggreated to planet.gentoo.org, everything else goes to planet.gentoo.org/universe
[11:29] <welp> just fyi
[11:29] <JanC> mdke: and it already does that IMHO
[11:29] <ubuntugeek> ProfoX': perhaps there should then be a requirement that your blog supports it.
[11:29] <mdke> JanC: sure. But it might be able to do it better
[11:29] <sabdfl_> ubuntugeek: we can't verify every detail, but it's possible to make a reasoned judgement
[11:29] <LaserJock> ubuntugeek: that's certianlly possible, that's what I do. but in \sh's case I believe he termed that censorship
[11:30] <elkbuntu> LaserJock, from how i understood his arguing, yes
[11:30] <MikeB-> ubuntugeek: most blog software allow you to make a rss feed for a specific categories
[11:30] <mdke> whether to filter/tag posts to planet is a question of choice of the individual blogger
[11:30] <imbrandon> well not exactly, i intentionaly post everything from my blog to planet because planet in its true form is a "view into the lives of the people behind the project" not nessesarly "about" the project
[11:30] <markvandenborre> I would like to see the responsibility for what a planet visitor looks at with the user for as much as possible
[11:30] <ubuntugeek> sure but the downfall of that would surley be less then the downfall of someone posting something that aggravates multiple people.
[11:30] <imbrandon> well not exactly, i intentionaly post everything from my blog to planet because planet in its true form is a "view into the lives of the people behind the project" not nessesarly "about" the project
[11:30] <imbrandon> err
[11:31] <mdke> we need to focus this discussion a bit
[11:31] <Burgundavia> indeed
[11:31] <yann2> you will still need one person who is going to make the choices.
[11:31] <sabdfl_> interesting. i don't think that post is a problem. it's racy, sure, but not offensive in western terms
[11:31] <keescook> imbrandon: that's why I was wondering if there was a published "the planet should be for all blog entries" vs "please keep it project-oriented"
[11:31] <ubuntugeek> My point is, it would seem better to enforce a requirement policy and be upfront with it then to censor. The person should agree to that requirement, if they break it they loose their planet access.
[11:31] <sabdfl_> that's not to say that it won't cause some people a reasonably anxious moment or two
[11:31] <imbrandon> keescook, there is a small blurb on the right
[11:31] <mattva01> shouldn't there just be a big disclaimer  at the top?
[11:32] <keescook> I kinda like welp's described tag/tagless split
[11:32] <markvandenborre> We need a solution where on one hand posters know they can post what is appropriate in their cultural context, as long as it doesn't violate basic human rights civilised people can agree on.
[11:32] <markvandenborre> Viewers on the other hand should be able to easily avoid posts potentially inappropriate to them. This carries the risk of alienating part of the community.
[11:32] <Seveas> this is going on for too long -- maybe we should summarize the discussion, let corey amend the policy and give this a retry later? The agenda is rather long and we'v not come too far on this subject
[11:32] <JanC> sabdfl_:  "western" isn't the right word, it depends on the subculture you live in
[11:32] <sabdfl_> corey, would you also look into Tim O'Reilly's blog code of conduct?
[11:32] <sabdfl_> there might be things we can embrace there, as a translation of the CoC into blog-terms
[11:32] <Burgundavia> sabdfl_: it looks a touch overdone, but sure
[11:32] <mdke> markvandenborre: can you explain how the spec fails to do what you've described?
[11:32] <sabdfl_> i don't think we want to be that heavy handed
[11:33] <hypa7ia> \sh's comments are also worth considering in the light of his earlier comments about "sexy posters" on planet
[11:33] <hypa7ia> imo
[11:33] <sabdfl_> and i think we really only want to rule out deeply offensive and personal items
[11:33] <mdke> hypa7ia: hi!
[11:33] <JanC> hypa7ia: welcome (even if we don't agree on some things ;) )
[11:33] <sabdfl_> in general, things like \sh's items are best addressed with a few quiet words, rathe than a  lynching party
[11:34] <elkbuntu> sabdfl_, we tried. believe me, we really did try.
[11:34] <sabdfl_> elkbuntu: i might well have posted that link myself!
[11:34] <JanC> one problem is there had been previous issues with you a Hobbsee
[11:34] <sabdfl_> don't consider it a failure
[11:34] <elkbuntu> sabdfl_, i'm glad you didnt.
[11:34] <Burgundavia> for the record: http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/BCC <-- drafts bloggesr code of conduct
[11:34] <sabdfl_> i'm more concerned with his style of response to you
[11:34] <sabdfl_> but i only have that second-hand
[11:35] <mdke> that's the real problem here; the discussion afterwards
[11:35] <JanC> sabdfl_: it's his style, he probably regrets some things by now  :)
[11:35] <markvandenborre> mdke, many posts that are controversial in some cultural backgrounds should be fine on the planet, but viewers from those cultural backgrounds should have an easy way to avoid them
[11:35] <ypsila> \sh actually is in Berlin to represent Kubuntu on the linuxtag
[11:35] <sabdfl_> right. we should remember this: we can't encode "getting along" in a set of rules
[11:35] <imbrandon> ok i must run , Seveas if sacater gets to membershiptoday he has my +1
[11:35] <towsonu2003> mdke, I'm not really sure what the real issue here...
[11:35] <sacater> imbrandon: thanks
[11:36] <elkbuntu> sabdfl_, im a person that is reasonably unfazeable, and while i personally was not offended by the post, due to my letter last week, i received a number of confidential communications concerned about it
[11:36] <sabdfl_> ok, can we conclude? this has been a good discussion. i'd like to move that:
[11:36] <hypa7ia> sabdfl_: but an established process for dispute resolution is worthwhile
[11:36] <Seveas> imbrandon, +1 means nothing without arguments
[11:36] <hypa7ia> and in this case there wasn't a process for planet
[11:36] <sabdfl_>  => i'll tighten up the current doc, on a KISS basis
[11:36] <imbrandon> ok i'll be back shortly and give them to you
[11:36] <sacater> imbrandon: ty
[11:36] <Seveas> excellent
[11:36] <sabdfl_>  => corey will work up something nice and guidelineish, with examples
[11:36] <mdke> ok
[11:37] <sabdfl_>  => we'll deal with future matters arising on a case by case basis till a pattern emerges
[11:37] <mdke> Burgundavia: I'll help
[11:37] <MikeB-> Burgundavia: I can help also, what ever you need
[11:38] <dholbach> shall we move on to the SwissTeam?
[11:38] <tormod> apropos family-friendly content, see https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-clusterfuck :)
[11:38] <mdke> dholbach: yes
[11:38] <Seveas> dholbach, we should
[11:38] <mdke> *stgraber*
[11:38] <hypa7ia> i'd be glad to help too
[11:38] <stgraber> Good evening, I'm Stphane Graber and I'm here to represent the Ubuntu Swiss Team (Switzerland).
[11:39] <stgraber> The Ubuntu Swiss Team was created more than a year ago and now is mainly about organizing events like the OpenExpo (having stands at computer shows and exhibitions), organizing release parties and other coming-togethers.
[11:39] <Seveas> Burgundavia, mdke, sabdfl_: thanks for tackling it and good luck
[11:39] <stgraber> We also provide support with our mailing-list, IRC channel and our extensive list of local contact persons spread all over Switzerland.
[11:39] <stgraber> As we have 4 official languages here in Switzerland, we've chosen English as our exchange language and then people are mainly using language-specific forums for online-support and our contact list for local-support.
[11:39] <stgraber> Our wikipage is : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SwissTeam
[11:39] <stgraber> and our Application : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SwissTeam/ApprovalApplication
[11:39] <Tribaal> +1
[11:39] <dholbach> I like the "Fondue for Human Beings" :-)
[11:39] <Tribaal> hehehe
[11:39] <stgraber> :)
[11:40] <mdke> stgraber: I read the wiki pages - looks excellent to me. I was wondering how your relationship with other teams is; the question of overlapping languages is a really tricky one in the Ubuntu community at the moment
[11:40] <JanC> stgraber: sounds a bit like the Belgian team  :)
[11:40] <markvandenborre> mdke, it works fairly well in Belgium
[11:40] <stgraber> yes, but with 4 languages in our case :)
[11:40] <welp> swiss++
[11:40] <mdke> markvandenborre: yeah, I know
[11:41] <mdke> but we can learn more from each new team
[11:41] <tormod> we (SwissTeam) focus on local activities, not language-specific
[11:41] <markvandenborre> absolutely
[11:41] <stgraber> well, basically the team only do the on-site part of the support, which means meeting, release parties and exhibitions, the on-line activities are directed to the others communities like ubuntu-fr, ubuntu-it, ubuntu-de
[11:41] <JanC> tormod: so do we in Belgium
[11:41] <mdke> right
[11:41] <tormod> JanC: makes sense doesn't it :)
[11:42] <yann2> ubuntu-fr will be happy to work with you stgraber , if you need help on some points, ... ;)
[11:42] <dholbach> we could do with some more swiss MOTUs - do you know of any people getting involved with that part of the community?
[11:42] <mdke> stgraber: ditto ubuntu-it
[11:42] <ypsila> stgraber: you forgot kubuntu-de ;-)
[11:42] <tormod> many SwissTeam members are members in -de -fr groups etc
[11:42] <stgraber> and we also have some translators for those languages
[11:43] <stgraber> ypsila: oops, sorry, that's right -de has kubuntu specific website
[11:43] <tormod> yann2: if you need help from us... :)
[11:43] <stgraber> yann2, mdke : thx
[11:43] <ypsila> stgraber: not only!
[11:44] <Seveas> A quick note for all member candidates: If you did not yet join the ubuntumembers tam on launchpad, please do so *now*
[11:44] <stgraber> well, (x/ed/k)ubuntu-(it/de/fr).org should be better, isn't it ? :)
[11:44] <mdke> I don't want to sound like a total noob, but what is the frame of reference for approving loco teams? What are the relevant considerations?
[11:44] <Tribaal> ubuntu-ch members on launchpad?
[11:45] <Burgundavia> mdke: was about to ask that myself
[11:45] <Seveas> mdke, that they are actively promoting/supporting ubuntu -- which for the swiss team seems to be ok :)
[11:45] <ypsila> stgraber: :-) of course!
[11:45] <tormod> we also try to work closely and productively with all the general linux- and open-source associations here
[11:45] <mdke> the swiss team sounds pretty well organised, well led and well supported. I'm happy to give my support, but I don't actually know what standard I'm supposed to apply for "officialising" locoteams
[11:46] <stgraber> yep, we have quite a lot of LUGs here and I think we have some good links with them
[11:46] <Seveas> mdke, other considerations are thir plans for the future, cooperation with othr teams etc...
[11:46] <Seveas> jono/elkbuntu should b able to give the executiv summary :(
[11:46] <Seveas> err :)
[11:46] <juliux> or smurf ;)
[11:46] <sacater> ScottK: tyvm
[11:46] <elkbuntu> hmm?
[11:46] <Seveas> ScottK, noted
[11:47] <mdke> I think we should perhaps tie the standard required down sometime, maybe write some things down. But whatever it is, the swiss team clearly passes it :)
[11:48] <mdke> so +1
[11:48] <dholbach> does anybody have anymore questions? MikeB-, Burgundavia, sabdfl_, elmo?
[11:48] <Tribaal> Yeeeha
[11:48] <Burgundavia> +1 from me
[11:48] <elmo> +1
[11:48] <MikeB-> +1 from me, look like a great team
[11:49] <dholbach> +1 from me too, excellent work being done in the team
[11:49] <WaVeR> Ubuntu-ch is also for make some install party and to get more people using Ubuntu on Switzerland
[11:49] <WaVeR> +1 for me 
[11:50] <Seveas> sabdfl_, ?
[11:50] <Seveas> sabdfl_, seems to be missing, but since we still have quorum, I suggest we move on
[11:50] <Seveas> he can catch up later and the agenda is massive
[11:51] <Seveas> txwikinger, is the first member candidate on the list who is here
[11:51] <mdke> ya
[11:51] <Seveas> txwikinger, please paste your introduction
[11:51] <stgraber> thx
[11:51] <tormod> hurray! thanks for your trust, from the Swiss ubuntites :)
[11:51] <txwikinger> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Txwikinger
[11:52] <sabdfl_> +1
[11:52] <Seveas> (all other member candidates: prepare a short introduction which you can paste in here when called)
[11:52] <mdke> good work swiss guys
[11:52] <sabdfl_> Burgundavia: have a look at the editorial policy now?
[11:52] <stgraber> sabdfl_: thx
[11:52] <Seveas> txwikinger, no introduction?
[11:52] <Burgundavia> sabdfl_: still looking through the blogging code of conduct
[11:53] <Tribaal> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Tribaal
[11:53] <Tribaal> oops
[11:53] <WaVeR> thanks all 
[11:53] <txwikinger> Short introduction
[11:53] <txwikinger> I am working with uni/linux for a long time now
[11:54] <txwikinger> started to be with ubuntu for more than 2 years
[11:54] <txwikinger> Have a long time technical support background
[11:54] <txwikinger> hence have a lot of fun helping out with questions
[11:54] <Seveas> Are there people around who want to vouch for txwikinger ?
 and txwikinger is in that crowd as well for rocking the marketing scene and I am sure Corey can attest to it as well
[11:54] <neversfelde> yes
[11:54] <txwikinger> due to being bilingual  helping out with translating
[11:55] <neversfelde> txwikinger is a bridge to launchpad for the whole german *ubuntu community. He is among other things an important and very active member of kubuntu-de.org and alongside he translates most of the "weekly" uwn into german
[11:55] <Tribaal> yes
[11:55] <mdke> lots of UWN translations listed there, nice
[11:55] <ypsila> yes
[11:55] <Seveas> Tribaal, ypsila tell us why he should be a member then :)
[11:55] <blizzzek> yes
[11:55] <dholbach> txwikinger: I noticed massive contributions to the answers tracker - that's great.... on your wiki page you say you're looking into becoming a MOTU - did you approach any MOTUs about that already? is there anything you'd like to work on?
[11:55] <Tribaal> been pretty active, present and friendly. That qualifies in my book
[11:56] <ypsila> Seveas: he is competent, his translations are always perfect, except some mistakes in the german language :-)
[11:56] <ubuntu_demon> I'm going to sleep right now but I just want to +1  Brunellus (Luigi de Guzman) he has been on the ubuntuforums staff for a while and has been a good and able staff member.
[11:56] <Tribaal> plus being billingual is a big plus
[11:56] <txwikinger> dholbach: I have done a couple of simple fixes... like spellings and so on and submitted them to MOTUs
[11:56] <sabdfl_> txwikinger: regarding your school MIS, have you heard of SchoolTool?
[11:56] <txwikinger> dholbach: I am practicing a little packaging for myself atm
[11:57] <txwikinger> sabdfl_: Yes I have tested it before
[11:57] <sabdfl_> thanks ubuntu_demon
[11:57] <txwikinger> sabdfl_: I am trying to connect things like SchoolTool with the requirements of the DFeS and LEAs
[11:57] <sabdfl_> +1 from me for txwikinger on the grounds of plenty of community work over a period of some time
[11:57] <dholbach> txwikinger: I'm going to announce the ubuntu-motu-mentors mailing list quite soon, it'd be nice to see if that'd help you get going. Let me know how becoming a MOTU works out for you.
[11:58] <txwikinger> dholbach: Thanks I would be very interested
[11:58] <dholbach> +1 from me too
[11:58] <elmo> +1
[11:58] <MikeB-> +1 for me
[11:58] <dholbach> txwikinger: thank you :)
[11:58] <mdke> yes, +1 from me too; lots of nice contribution over what looks like a long period
[11:58] <Burgundavia> +1 from me
[11:58] <Seveas> Burgundavia, mdke ?
[11:58] <MikeB-> AFK for a couple of minutes, need to send a fax ASAP
[11:59] <Seveas> ok, /me too impatient :)
[11:59] <Seveas> 6 out of 6, excellent!
[11:59] <Burgundavia> now I just need to suck txwikinger into editing the english UWN...
[11:59] <Seveas> Welcome txwikinger
[11:59] <Seveas> fernando, you're up
[11:59] <txwikinger> Thanks a lot everybody
[11:59] <Tribaal> *claps for tx*
[11:59] <ypsila> Burgundavia: very good idea!
[11:59] <welp> txwikinger's a brit?
[11:59] <txwikinger> welp: I am German but live in the UK
[11:59] <fernando> My name is Fernando Ribeiro. I'm living in brasilia (Brazil). I'm working as a consultant in governmental sites in my country. I have already patched the command line options to use optparser python module, other little patchs, same bug fixes and testing. I'm trying to be a motu (dholbach is my mentor). I have already build mrbayers, jadetex and music-applet. Working in libgnomedb3 and mergeant packages. =)
[11:59] <ypsila> welp: no! he is geman! but he lives inuk
[12:00] <welp> mmm, good enough, i suppose ;)
[12:00] <ypsila> welp: good? are you kidding?
[12:00] <mdke> fernando: how long have you been involved in Ubuntu?
[12:01] <Burgundavia> fernando: link us up with a wiki page?
[12:01] <dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FernandoRibeiroSilva
[12:01] <Seveas> Burgundavia, it's on the CC agenda page :)
[12:01] <Burgundavia> Seveas: that is a few tabs and many conversations over
[12:02] <fernando> mdke: since dapper how user, in LP +/- 6 months
[12:02] <Seveas> Burgundavia, install the 'Permanent tab' extension for firefox, it helps in these cases :)
[12:02] <fernando> dholbach: thanks
[12:02] <cypherbios> I someone ask me, I think fernando would be a good addition to ubuntumembers to works in bug triage and packaging related stuffs
[12:03] <mdke> fernando: so you've been doing bug work already for 6 months?
[12:03] <Seveas> mdke, his karma seems not to suggest that
[12:04] <Seveas> Besides cypherbios, is there anyone else who want to cheer for fernando?
[12:04] <dholbach> I think fernando's QA efforts were focussed on improving bughelper
[12:04] <dholbach> I added my testimonials on his wiki page
[12:05] <mdke> I'm not criticising at all, it's a good wiki page and I think the contributions are really good. i just want to get a feel for the period of participation
[12:05] <fernando> mdke: no very active to bug work this last 4 months to marriage preparatives
[12:05] <mdke> yeah, I know that one
[12:05] <dholbach> mdke: I wasn't suggesting that you were. :-)
[12:05] <mdke> dholbach: sure, I just wanted to make that clear anyway
[12:07] <sabdfl_> fernando: it's great to have your participation
[12:07] <sabdfl_> reading your wiki page i can see that you definitely have made an effort to understand ubuntu, and to contribute
[12:07] <fernando> sabdfl_: thank you
[12:08] <sabdfl_> i think that membership is on the cards, but i for one think it would be worth waiting a while
[12:08] <sabdfl_> till there's a clearer track record
[12:08] <sabdfl_> fair enough?
[12:08] <OgMaciel> fernando: you should meet the other Brazilians too  ;)
[12:08] <fernando> sabdfl_: no problem
[12:08] <mdke> I'm with sabdfl_
[12:08] <mdke> fernando - stick to dholbach, and you can't go wrong :)
[12:08] <Seveas> fernando, just pester dholbach with more patches :)
[12:09] <sabdfl_> ok, so keep at it, and we'll see you in a couple of months OK?
[12:09] <fernando> sabdfl_: right, thank you by attention
[12:09] <dholbach> with the speed fernando's working on packages I think it won't take that long
[12:09] <mdke> nice work fernando, see you soon :)
[12:10] <Seveas> dholbach, excellent
[12:10] <Seveas> DarkSun88, you're up next
[12:10] <DarkSun88> Ok
[12:10] <DarkSun88> Hi, my name is Michele Angrisano. (Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MicheleAngrisano | Launchpad: https://launchpad.net/~micheleangrisano). I'm a 18 year old boy living in Naples (Italy). I started using Ubuntu Breezy from March 2006. I'm an active member of Italian Community where I try to help new users to solve their issues.
[12:10] <mdke> I have a testimonial for DarkSun88
[12:10] <sabdfl_> hey DarkSun88. where would you say you are making the biggest contribution?
[12:10] <mdke> 22:10:56 <bluekuja> Unfortunately this evening, I wont partecipate to the CC meeting so long to sponsor Michele directly, so I would like to give this cheer to mdke that will be able to comunicate it to CC's members during Michele's turn. He's doing a GREAT job in the italian community providing support in every possible form: irc, forums, wiki pages and translations becoming a reference point for anyone who needs help in our loco-team. I've got the
[12:11] <imbrandon> mdke, you cut off at "i've got the ....."
[12:11] <DarkSun88> Thanks mdke
[12:11] <JanC> no, the server did  ;)
[12:11] <mdke> ... 22:10:56 <bluekuja> Unfortunately this evening, I wont partecipate to the CC meeting so long to sponsor Michele directly, so I would like to give this cheer to mdke that will be able to comunicate it to CC's members during Michele's turn. He's doing a GREAT job in the italian community providing support in every possible form: irc, forums, wiki pages and translations becoming a reference point for anyone who needs help in our loco-team. I've got
[12:11] <mdke> damn
[12:12] <JanC> max. line length exeeded
[12:12] <welp> it got cut off :(
[12:12] <mdke> [...]  I've got the possibility to work with him on some packaging activities related to merging/patching fields too, and I think he will keep doing such a good work in  the future! Thanks and good luck Michele!
[12:12] <DktrKranz> I would like to cheer Michele too.
[12:12] <DktrKranz> He's very active in Italian Community, especially in documentation and support to other users.
[12:12] <DktrKranz> He started to work with MOTUs too, he did a great job by smashing some PHP 4 unmetdeps bug
[12:12] <welp> right folks, i'm off to bed... Seveas, don't forget the stuff i said about sacater ;)
[12:12] <welp> gnight all.
[12:12] <DktrKranz> Feisty is a better place thanks to his work :)
[12:12] <mdke> I also can big him up, I've worked with him in the -it community and he is a good Ubuntero; we made him an irc op and he is doing good work on documentation with translations. He is patient and has a good attitude to open source, he doesn't get discouraged
[12:12] <sacater> bye welp
[12:13] <Burgundavia> +1 from me, given three strong recommendations and a pretty good track record of work
[12:13] <Seveas> mdke, I assume that's also a +1 from you :)
[12:13] <mdke> yeah
[12:13] <Seveas> looking very good
[12:14] <mdke> we need more italian members :D
[12:14] <Seveas> hehe
[12:14] <MikeB-> +1 from me, great work
[12:14] <DktrKranz> +1 :P
[12:14] <sabdfl_> +1 from me too
[12:14] <DarkSun88> I'm very interested to join MOTU one day
[12:14] <DarkSun88> :)
[12:14] <Seveas> elmo, ?
[12:14] <dholbach> DarkSun88: do you have any plans for MOTU? anything you'd like to work on?
[12:14] <elmo> sorry, just catching up, 2 secs
[12:14] <Seveas> ok
[12:14] <sacater> welp: sleep
[12:15] <elmo> +1
[12:15] <Seveas> xcellent
[12:15] <dholbach> +1 from me too
[12:15] <DarkSun88> dholbach: Merge and Patch
[12:15] <DarkSun88> :)
[12:15] <DarkSun88> dholbach: I've just started working on packaging stuff, developing mostly merge and syncs packages
[12:15] <Seveas> welcome aboard DarkSun88 !
[12:15] <Seveas> bdmurray, is next
[12:15] <dholbach> DarkSun88: great - thanks a lot
[12:15] <mdke> I'm going to duck out soon
[12:15] <bdmurray> Hello!  I work for Canonical as a Quality Assurance Engineer. My areas of responsibility include managing the Ubuntu QA team, keeping an eye out for important bugs and creating methods for triaging and reporting bugs more effectively. As such I've triaged more than a thousand bugs (my best lowball guess).  My wiki page is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BrianMurray .
[12:16] <DarkSun88> Thanks :D
[12:16] <DarkSun88> DktrKranz: Thanks a lot
[12:16] <DarkSun88> mdke: Thank
[12:16] <DarkSun88> :D
[12:16] <keescook> i'm here to cheer bdmurray on; he's been doing great work, and is a very quick learner.
[12:16] <Seveas> bdmurray, I'm curious, when did you start bugwork? I stopped doing it months ago and got out of touch
[12:16] <mdke> I've been seriously impressed with the way that bdmurray slotted into the community quickly and smoothly
[12:16] <bdmurray> Seveas: mid December
[12:17] <Burgundavia> I can echo mdke's words