/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2007/05/30/#ubuntu-kernel.txt

BenCvictory747: it's not a problem, it's just a change (albeit, one that shouldn't have happened)12:25
victory747BenC: thanks.  But I'm afraid of average-joe not being able to proceed if they should upgrade the kernel12:25
BenCvictory747: unless you hard coded usage of /dev/sdaX in /etc/fstab, it shouldn't cause you any problems12:25
BenCvictory747: unless they did that, it also should not affect them12:26
victory747BenC: right - all the non-hard-coded stuff works as well as LVM12:26
BenCon a normal install, fstab and similar things should use UUID instead of hardcoded hdX/sdX devices12:26
victory747but it seems odd to change something like that after release12:26
BenCas I said, it wasn't intentional12:26
victory747so will it be reverted?12:27
BenCif people experience the issue and have to fix something, then changing it back is pointless12:27
BenCeither they fixed it right, and they wont even notice us switching it back, or they fixed it wrong (changed hard coding) and we'll be forcing them to change it again12:28
BenC90% of people wont even know it happened12:28
BenCthe other 10% had to create the situation that caused it, and would know how to resolve it12:28
victory747hmm.  I'm an old unix guy, so never really knew about UUID12:28
victory747yeah, like me12:29
BenCactually I would put it more like 98/212:29
victory747ok, well if you are aware of it, then I'm ok with it12:29
BenCso it's not something that would crop up for a real green user who wouldn't know how to resolve it12:29
victory747may I ask why IDE was /dev/sdX in the first place?12:29
he1ixyep, that seems interesting to me too :)12:30
BenCeveryone is hooked on this old idiom that says sdX is scsi12:30
he1ixwas just about to ask that...12:30
BenClibata uses the scsi layer as it's backend12:30
victory747I'm not worried about me, but I am very concerned about people I support and people I turn onto Ubuntu.12:30
BenClibata has a lot of drivers for SATA/PATA, and we are moving to that core since it is more hotplug capable, and also handles errors a lot better12:31
victory747ok, that's what I figured - it made sense to me - but this reversion makes things a real mess12:31
victory747in my humble opinion12:31
victory747because I work with semi-technical people moving over from windows12:31
BenCyeah, the reasoning behind it was that ata_piix was causing some problems that the IDE piix driver didn't have12:31
victory747changes like this mid-stream are very frustrating to them12:31
victory747ok12:32
BenClate in feisty release we moved a few PCI ids back to piix, and somehow a larger portion of the move got left in for feisty post release upload12:32
BenCand it shouldn't have. I thought it had gotten reverted12:32
BenCthat's a mistake we usually don't make, and it's definitely at the top of my "don't let it happen again" list12:33
victory747yeah, but what now?12:33
victory747we are back to /dev/hdX for IDE?12:33
BenCfor stability reasons, yes12:33
victory747ok12:33
BenCI actually don't mind that it happened, because I wanted to do it during beta freeze, but it was considered too extensive of a change12:34
victory747may I ask the proper way of finding a partition UUID?12:34
BenCsudo vol_id /dev/hga112:34
he1ixvictory747: have a look into /dev/disk/by-uuid/12:34
BenC*hda1 12:34
victory747ok12:34
victory747so in feisty+1 will we go back to libata?12:35
BenCright, the links in by-uuid are a good starting point, but udev, which mounts things and creates those links uses vol_id12:35
BenCvictory747: very likely12:35
BenCata_piix PATA support seems to be much more stable now, and all the issues that were noticed for feisty are gone12:35
he1ixBenC: ok, sounds reasonable :)12:35
victory747ok12:35
victory747thanks for your time.  i appreciate your response and I'm glad you are aware of the issues.  that was my biggest concern12:36
BenCthanks for taking the time to report it12:36
BenChope my answers were satisfactory12:36
he1ixthe links provide a nice overview, thats why i like them...12:36
victory747no, i understand now the issues, your answers were great.  thanks.12:37
he1ix(other topic) i was looking around for this for quite a while, but wasn't able to find anything:12:38
he1ixthe timestamps that precede every kernel-message... where do they come from?12:38
he1ixthis seems to be a ubuntu-speciality, afaics12:39
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BenChe1ix: no, it's a kernel config option that enables them12:39
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he1ixBenC: vanilla-default? haven't found that...12:40
BenCwe enable them because it helps us to understand dmesg output when debugging problems12:40
BenChe1ix: debian/config/i386/config:CONFIG_PRINTK_TIME=y12:40
sitsIs there an acknowledged problem with Intel SATA in the latest Feisty kernel update?12:40
BenCsits: not that I know of...what's the issue?12:40
sitsBug #11699612:41
sitshttps://launchpad.net/bugs/11699612:41
he1ixBenC: ah, i see. thanks...12:41
BenCsits: the change to hdX from sdX was intentional but it's not really a bug unless something stopped working12:42
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pkl_AFAIK Dapper has problems in that many system files didn't use the UUID.12:42
sitsBenC: hang on12:43
sitsBenC: Isn't it going the wrong way?12:43
sitse.g. from hda -> sda12:43
BenCpkl_: but the upgrade from dapper to edgy would convert fstab and grub's menu.lst to UUID12:43
sitsBenC: and what about these IRQ timeouts that are occuring?12:44
BenCsits: it doesn't matter which way it goes...if your disk is in IDE compatibility mode, it looks like an IDE disk to the kernel12:44
sitsok12:44
BenCsits: would be nice if I could see them :)12:44
sitsheh12:44
BenCdo you have a digital camera?12:44
sitsI didn't have time to test things out on a work machine today12:44
pkl_BenC: in the Feisty pre-release kernels when the libata work was in flux, there were numerous issues related to systems upgraded from Dapper -> Edgy -> Feisty.  So it is clear in some case the upgrades didn't work correctly, or a number of cases, people had heavily customised grub loaders.12:45
sitsBenC: so if I understand you correctly12:45
sitsBenC: the change is simply to make disks set in PATA mode actually appear as PATA disks?12:45
sitss/PATA mode/PATA emulation mode12:46
BenCsits: the hdX/sdX thing should be a non-issue12:46
BenCsits: but your IRQ timeouts concern me, and I'm hoping you can work with us to resolve that12:46
sitsBenC: well as I said I'll try reproducing it on the dells at work tomorrow12:47
BenCdoes reverting to AHCI or native mode work for you?12:47
sits(this isn't my bug it just turns up in my "list of bugs I watch")12:47
sitsBenC: what about the reports of broken CD drives etc?12:47
sits(because they no longer appear as sda devices)12:48
sitss/sda/sd12:48
BenCCD drives being broken with ata_piix (libata) are the reason things were switched back to piix (IDE)12:48
pkl_sits: the fstab entries for CD drives don't use UUID entries.12:48
sitspkl_: indeed12:48
BenCthose should point to /dev/cdrom instead12:48
sitspkl_: Would it be even possible for them too given they are removable?12:48
BenCwhich is a symlink to whatever cdrom is detected first (scd0 or hdc)12:48
BenCsits: the fstab entry is noauto,user so it's hotplug for when media is inserted12:49
sitshmm that isn't the case on my system which is a "Fresh" feisty install12:49
sits(this is my home system which is not intel)12:49
sits/dev/hdc        /media/cdrom0   udf,iso9660 user,noauto     0       012:49
sitsThat was created by the Ubuntu installer12:50
pkl_In my Feisty install, the fstab entry is also /dev/hdb.12:51
stiv2khey12:51
sitspkl_: that's not going to be robust against a change like this12:51
stiv2kif im on the amd64 arch, and i have the ia32 libs installed and whatnot, how do i go about downloading the 32bit setiathome app?12:51
sitsstiv2k: this is probably the wrong channel to ask that12:51
sitsstiv2k: I'd recommend a 32 bit chroot myself...12:52
stiv2kok something for the right channel12:52
stiv2khow come i can't load the module powernow-k8 for the life of me12:52
stiv2kheres what happens12:52
stiv2k(trying to get cpu freq. scaling to work)12:52
sitsstiv2k: it doesn't support/knokw your hardware?12:52
stiv2ksits: it works fine in windows xp12:53
stiv2kFATAL: Error inserting powernow_k8 (/lib/modules/2.6.20-16-generic/kernel/arch/x86_64/kernel/cpufreq/powernow-k8.ko): No such device12:53
sitsstiv2k: ah that's not quite what I meant12:53
stiv2k[  222.884968]  powernow-k8: Found 2 AMD Turion(tm) 64 X2 Mobile Technology TL-52 processors (version 2.00.00)12:53
stiv2k[  222.884942]  powernow-k8: MP systems not supported by PSB BIOS structure12:53
sitsstiv2k: I mean the module itself is unaware of how to support your hardware12:53
stiv2k[  222.886287]  powernow-k8: MP systems not supported by PSB BIOS structure12:53
stiv2ksits: *shrug* it should work, i remember it worked back in edgy12:53
sitsstiv2k: check whether you can get an updated BIOS I guess12:53
stiv2kits a AMD turion 64x212:54
sitspkl_: I guess I'm wondering if some sort of post cleanup is going to be needed to handle that case12:54
sitsstiv2k: hmm. OK if it used to work and no longer does then that's different. I guess in that case I would guess it was a regression (assuming it was running in the same 32/64 bit mode in edgy)12:55
stiv2kwell back in the day12:56
stiv2ki had the x86 arch installed12:56
stiv2kin edgy, and it worked for a while12:56
stiv2kthen i think it updated the kernel12:56
stiv2kand it stopped working12:56
stiv2ki forget which version exactly12:56
sitsBenC: ok lets assume that I manage to reproduce this problem on an Intel machine tomorrow and I wind up using irqpoll to try and workaround it? What's the next step?12:57
stiv2ksits: i think it might have something to do with this.... http://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=807512:58
pkl_sits: yeah, it would be a good idea.  I guess the issue is the belief that if the files are installer generated/ugrader generated, there shouldn't be an issue as they should use UUID.  If you've edited your files, you're on your own etc.  But, as you've seen, for some reason the installer/ugrader seems to be making mistakes, not upgrading to UUIDs, or not using /dev/cdrom.  I don't know enough about the installer to know if this is a genu12:59
pkl_ine bug, or what can be done about it unfortunately.12:59
sitspkl_: ah I see01:00
sitspkl_: I was unaware the installer _should_ have been using /dev/cdrom01:01
sitspkl_: the uuid problems are just unfortunate01:01
sitsstiv2k: looks like you answered your own question : )01:01
sitspkl_: and yes, if you hand edit you're on your own01:01
sitspkl_: that suggests we may need a ubiquity bug to be opened on this too..01:02
sitspkl_: what about rumours of uuids changing when switching drivers though?01:02
stiv2ksits: right but it doesnt appear like they fixed it yet :(01:02
sitsand what about SATA CD drives? Will those really work?01:02
sitsThere's a machine at work that has such a drive and it was utterly unable to boot SUSE 10.1 disks because of a lack of SATA drivers...01:04
pkl_sits: that's a weird issue, I can't explain it.  The obvious solution is the filesystem has been reformatted in addition to the driver change, even if the user isn't aware of it.01:04
sitspkl_: ok I'll chalk that up as a quirk until I see it myself01:04
sitspkl_: an fsck wouldn't cause such a change though would it?01:04
pkl_sits: no, a new filesystem has to be written AFAIK.01:05
sitspkl_: how do uuids differ from FS labels?01:05
sits(sorry for the barrage of questions, just trying to build a picture)01:06
pkl_sits: my suggestion would be to use disktype (or another user-space program) that prints UUIDs.  Both using both drivers, and see if the user-space program reports a different UUID.01:06
sitspkl_: Ah good suggestion01:07
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sitspkl_/BenC: you may want to say that the change of driver was intentional in one of those bugs (however I predict that will only stir up a barrage of criticism)01:08
sitsthe only other thing that springs to mind is won't this change from SATA to PATA dramatically cut throughput?01:09
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pkl_sits: the patches were put into the Feisty kernel, I released the security update with the patches in the kernel.  I _thought_ it was intended to have these changes in the security update, but I'm not so sure now :)01:10
sitsheh01:10
pkl_If they were not meant to be there, then it is probably my fault :(01:11
sitshey accidents happen01:11
sitsI'm just working out whether to get the users at work to upgrade now or wait for another kernel release01:13
sitspkl_: you might want to steer clear of the forums for a little bit if it does turn out to be accident though ;)01:14
pkl_sits: it depends if they're going to experience some of the issues the kernel fixes, tifm driver (Texas Instruments MMC card), and mouse problems on SiS chipsets are the major changes affecting most people beyond the security fixes (and the dev/sdX - /dev/hdX stuff).01:16
sitsmouse problems on SiS chipsets? Sigh.01:17
sitsSiS chipsets cause me enough grief given that the framebuffer puts out strange modelines at 1280x1024...01:17
pkl_sits: yeah, I'm mainly lurking watching all the complaints. 01:17
sitspkl_: ok understood01:18
pkl_anyway, it's gone midnight here, and so I'm off....01:19
sitsditto01:20
sitsnight01:20
pkl_Ok, night.01:21
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NrbelexUbuntuAre extremely slow boot times and launch times known to be an issue with the most recent kernel?02:25
NrbelexUbuntuMy laptop has a 2.2GHz P4-M but its running at a ridiculously slow speed...02:26
n2diyNrbelexUbuntu: everybody signed off at 1917 hours Eastern US time.02:38
NrbelexUbuntu... why, n2diy?02:38
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n2diyNrbelexUbuntu: it was after midnight where they live.02:51
pkl_n2diy: there are kernel guys in the states working for Ubuntu... In fact most do :)02:52
n2diypkl_: roger that, did you see NrbelexUbuntu message at 2023?02:53
pkl_2023 in what timezone?02:54
kylemiz dinner time.02:54
kylem"it's slow" isn't exactly debugging information.02:54
pkl_iz two hours past midnight for me...02:54
n2diypkl_: Eastern US, about half an hour ago.02:54
pkl_kylem: you shock me, not having a clue isn't an excuse :)02:56
n2diypkl_: ok, take a look at this, he rolled back to his previous kernel, and the system returned to normal, note line 114:http://pastebin.ca/52052202:56
pkl_kylem: I've been in that postion for 4 months, and look at all the damage I've caused  :)02:57
kylemn2diy, system being slow isn't really a symptom of bad irq routing.02:58
n2diypkl_: ok, take a look at this, he rolled back to his previous kernel, and the system returned to normal, note line 114:   http://pastebin.ca/52052202:59
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pkl_kylem: this is probably a result of the libata reversion patches?  I'm not aware of anything else that went into the kernel to cause this...03:02
kylemyes. i'd believe that.03:03
kylemNrbelexUbuntu, could you pastebin the output of hdparm -c -d -k /dev/hda?03:03
n2diykylem: roger that, it is the only thing I saw that raised a flag to me. He quit anyway, so it is a moot point now, thanks anyway.03:13
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purpzeyI've heard from some people in #ubuntu that they've had problems with the new kernel update...Is this and update I should avoid until the quirks are worked through? 06:19
crimsunnot the appropriate channel, but you should inspect your fstab(5) post-update [but pre-reboot] , revert it if necessary and regenerate the initramfs.06:22
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krauthi09:36
krautis there a problem with the feisty-kernel and the usage of UUIDs as root-device in grub?09:36
krautwhen i use UUIDs, it can't map the root-volume.09:36
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maks_kraut ask on #ubuntu, that's the support channel10:12
krautmaks_: i did it hundreds of times and i got never an answer.10:15
krautand i need this information for my own kernel-maintenance.10:15
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maks_kraut: your question is so general that one would need a crystal ball to start debugging your question ;)10:37
maks_what does "i can't map" mean?10:37
krauthmm, thought it would consist of enough details..10:37
krautmaks_: it doesn't found / and runs into a timeout and i'll get the busybox.10:38
maks_and did you check which devices or uuid are around?10:38
maks_(rootdelay=5 or lower comes handy for such boots)10:39
krauthmm, there is a path under /dev where i find those UUID pathes.10:39
krautah, thanks for the tip10:39
krautthe crazy thing is, that i can't find any UUID pathes in the busybox.10:39
JanCuse 'vol_id'10:40
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krautand i must say, that i compiled the feisty-sources in a dapper-chroot, because i am backporting them.10:40
krautJanC: i try it later and give you more details.10:40
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cmvoHi! After upgrading the kernel to -11 in edgy I get the strange phenomenon of sticking mouse keys.10:58
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crimsunis this 11.37 or 11.38?11:01
cmvocrimsun: 11.3811:01
crimsunI'm still running 11.37 on an older Dell Dimension XPS, so I don't know offhand if I'll be able to trigger said symptoms11:01
cmvoHere it is a P965+Core2Duo and a PS/2 trackball, also kubuntu.11:03
crimsunyeah, yours is _considerably_ newer (to the tune of a half-decade)11:04
cmvoIts rather strange, it most often happens when clicking and dragging between windows. I release the key of the destination and the dragged object is droppen.11:07
cmvoAfterwards it seems the other keys not used during the drap are down.11:08
cmvos/drap/drag/11:08
cmvoI was about to blame it on X/KDE, but since booting back to -10.34 the effect is gone.11:11
crimsunhmm11:24
crimsunI wonder if it's the i8042 changes.11:24
cmvocrimsun: where there any between 10.34 and 11.38?11:38
crimsuncmvo: no, I was looking at the wrong git tree.  Sorry.11:53
crimsun(pulled on -feisty, not -edgy)11:53
cmvocrimsun: yeah, this system needs an upgrade...11:57
cmvocrimsun: I'll try the other -11s on the next reboot.12:14
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maks_is there already first field experience of nouveau ?01:38
maks_latest powertop wants this hpet patch did you add it?01:39
maks_hmm not seen in fedora01:42
maks_but they have an 2.6.21 patch to disable hpet on some dell notebooks01:43
maks_not yet merged http://cvs.fedora.redhat.com/viewcvs/rpms/kernel/devel/linux-2.6-x86-dell-hpet.patch?view=markup01:44
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apt_getI need some help with ifb kernel module08:29
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bdmurrayhello?10:30
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crimsunhi10:33
bdmurrayhey crimsun I was looking a probable kernel bug but the original reporter replaced the hardware so I'm not sure if there is enough info in the bug10:36
bdmurrayit is bug 11564710:36
crimsunerm, yeah, there's not much that can be done if the hardware itself is gone...10:38
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-kernel:crimsun] : Ubuntu kernel development discussion ONLY | Kernel Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam | Latest kernel upload: 2.6.22-6.12 | Latest news: -rt and -xen kernels removed, failures in patch | linux-meta uploaded for gutsy 2.6.22 kernels. | New Kernel Team machine: http://kernel.ubuntu.com/
crimsun(-> 6.12)10:40
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apt_getHi10:42
apt_geti need some help with ifb....  10:42
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fxcjust a curiosity: did latest kernel (2.6.20-16) disable libata?11:19
fxcMy ide disk was sda beofre. Since update it's hda11:20

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