[12:17] <mdke> the guy rocks
[12:17] <Seveas> He's a lousy poker player though ;)
[12:17] <ajmitch> he's also been very encouraging of other community members doing bug work
[12:17] <mdke> oh, hang on then
[12:17] <Mithrandir> bdmurray has done a fantastic job on the 7.04 release and it would have been significantly worse if it wasn't for his efforts.
[12:17] <ajmitch> Seveas: can you hold that against him though?
[12:17] <Seveas> ajmitch, not really
[12:18] <elmo> +1
[12:18] <Seveas> one down, 5 to go
[12:18] <mdke> me too
[12:18] <dholbach> having worked with bdmurray directly, +1 from me too
[12:18] <MikeB-> +1
[12:18] <mdke> pleasure to have you with us bdmurray
[12:18] <bdmurray> thanks everyone
[12:18] <Seveas> sabdfl_, Burgundavia ?
[12:18] <Burgundavia> +1 from me
[12:19] <imbrandon> forget poker , how about mao
[12:19] <mdke> ok, I'm off. Apologies to other candidates
[12:20] <Seveas> effie_jayx, you're up next, please paste your introduction whilst we wait for sabdfl_ to return
[12:20] <Seveas> by mdke!
[12:20] <keescook> \o/
[12:20] <kalon33> bye mdke !
[12:20] <effie_jayx> My Name is efrain Valles, I am sharing the Ubuntu LoCo team Contact in ubuntu-ve (Venezuelan Team) duties with Rolando Blanco. I am a member of a Local Lug (VELUG-MCBO) I am currently running a LUG at my University and I promote the use of ubuntu giving talks and much rencently I have started going out and putting together events to foster the use of ubuntu. I am also a OP at #ubuntu-ve. My day job I am an EFL (English as a Foreign Language) te
[12:20] <OgMaciel> good luck effie_jayx :)
[12:20] <effie_jayx> acher and I am hopong I can bridge my to Passions one day. I am a student of Computer Engineering. and Love programming. my wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EfrainValles.
[12:20] <Seveas> We still have quorum, with the other 5 (so I hope sabdfl actually returns)
 effie_jayx rocks out a lot of marketing stuff and does way more than I do with Marketing
[12:21] <elkbuntu> Efrain definatly gets my vote. He's enthusiastic, capable and most of all, he's an excellent team player. He is one of the main reasons the venezuelan LoCo rocks as much as they do.
[12:22] <effie_jayx> elkbuntu,  :)
[12:22] <dholbach> effie_jayx: you want to become a MOTU: did you get in touch with any MOTUs already? is there anything you'd like to work on specifically?
[12:22] <effie_jayx> dholbach,  I have tried... have started doing some bug triaging... but that was probably a month ago
[12:23] <Burgundavia> effie_jayx: why do you say you translating outside the official teams?
[12:23] <effie_jayx> Burgundavia,  I just wanted to say I make suggestions for the team
[12:23] <Burgundavia> right
[12:23] <effie_jayx> Burgundavia,  I am not an approved translator... I did join the team
[12:23] <effie_jayx> but the approval is hard :S
[12:23] <Burgundavia> ahh
[12:23] <JanC> effie_jayx: you asked that question about sponsoring by companies in the locoteams channel ?
[12:24] <effie_jayx> JanC,  yes I did. I just wanted to gt a wider scope on sponsorship.
[12:24] <dholbach> effie_jayx: it'd be nice to have you join the team - please let me know how that goes
[12:24] <JanC> right, so I know you thought about it carefully and asked other people for their opinion  :)
[12:25] <elkbuntu> back in december, effie_jayx almost single-handedly reunited the venezuelan team with the rest of the ubuntu community
[12:25] <effie_jayx> JanC,  I did... when in doubt consult others...
[12:25] <effie_jayx> elkbuntu,  it was your inspirational talk :D
[12:26] <elkbuntu> :)
[12:26] <effie_jayx> I became very involved in the community stuff because of UbuntuOpen Week
[12:26] <Seveas> elkbuntu, ftw :)
[12:27] <elkbuntu> Seveas, effie_jayx ftw ;)
[12:27] <Seveas> both
[12:27] <Seveas> so, why are there no +1's yet? :)
[12:27] <Burgundavia> +1 from me
[12:28] <sabdfl_> +1 from me on effie_jayx
[12:28] <MikeB-> +1 here
[12:28] <sabdfl_> excellent community work
[12:28] <elmo> +1
[12:28] <Seveas> sabdfl_, and bdmurray ?
[12:28] <dholbach> +1 from me too, hope to see you as an approved translator and motu soon :)
[12:28] <effie_jayx> dholbach,  you bet :D
[12:28] <Seveas> welcome aboard effie_jayx !
[12:29] <OgMaciel> congrats effie_jayx
[12:29] <effie_jayx> :D
[12:29] <WRATHCHILD> GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOODDDDDDDD
[12:29] <effie_jayx> thanks you all
[12:29] <Seveas> sacater, you're up
[12:29] <sacater> Hi, my name is Sam Cater, Im 14 years old and from the UK. Ive been
[12:29] <sacater> using Ubuntu for about a year now.
[12:29] <sacater> I mostly do Launchpad Q+A and help in IRC when I can, I can also do
[12:29] <sacater> basic packaging and bug work.
[12:29] <sacater> Quick Links:
[12:29] <sacater> Launchpad: http://launchpad.net/~sacater
[12:29] <sacater> Karma: http://launchpad.net/~sacater/+karma
[12:29] <sacater> Answers History: http://answers.launchpad.net/~sacater
[12:29] <sacater> Wiki: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/sacater
[12:29] <sacater> Seveas: dont forget to paste what welp said
[12:29] <Seveas> * ScottK has to go in a few moments.  I'd like to speak in favor of membership for sacater when the time comes.  He is clearly very enthusiastic and committed to Ubuntu.  My only suggestion would actually be to dial back his enthusiasm a bit as his interest in helping sometimes exceeds his experience, but that will come in time.  I think he would make a good addition to Ubuntu members.
 (as i'm sure you can tell from my hostmask, i'm a gentoo developer). i was the one who introduced him to linux, and i'm always pleasantly surprised at how much he can learn in a short amount of time... he's a good guy.
[12:29] <Seveas> don't worry sacater :)
[12:30] <sacater> Seveas: theres more from welp
[12:30] <sacater> oh
[12:30] <sacater> wait
[12:30] <sacater> scratch that :P
[12:30] <Seveas> :)
[12:30] <sacater> carry on :D
[12:30] <imbrandon> I also would like to vouch for sacater he is a quick study in -motu and often is eager to help point people in the right direction
[12:30] <JanC> sacater: you mean where he said you should get some sleep?  :P
[12:30] <Burgundavia> ok, now I feel old
[12:30] <sacater>  welp:  well, i dunno what he does in ubuntuland, all i can really say is that he's a fast learner, really
[12:31] <sacater>              willing, knows how to look for information, that kinda stuff :)
[12:31] <Seveas> Burgundavia, he's not just younger, he also seems to have an infinte amount of energy :)
[12:31] <sacater> JanC: i havnt slept in 38 hours
[12:31] <sacater> :P
[12:31] <sacater> i have proof but thats for another time :P
[12:31] <imbrandon> Burgundavia, haha me 3
[12:31] <JanC> sacater: sleep is good for the quality of your work
[12:32] <sacater> JanC: :D
[12:32] <JanC> sacater: i'm serious
[12:32] <AndyP> not to mention your health :)
[12:32] <sacater> JanC: like Seveas said, I have plenty of health
[12:32] <sacater> energy*
[12:32] <sabdfl_> sacater, i've heard good things about your contributions
[12:32] <sacater> dont worry, im sleeping properly tonight
[12:32] <sacater> sabdfl_: :D
[12:32] <sabdfl_> what is it that you think you bring to Ubuntu, and what is it that you think Ubuntu can bring to others?
[12:33] <sacater> I bring help to those who need or request it, and ubuntu brings friendship and community to others
[12:34] <sacater> pochu: vouch me please
[12:34] <sacater> pochu: membership application is right now :o
[12:34] <pochu> @now
[12:35] <dholbach> sacater: impressive work on the answers tracker - you're involved in the cubuntu team (I didn't know it even exists), how's work going on there?
[12:35] <sacater> dholbach: i havnt noticed that much activity personally, but yes, its a command-line deriritive
[12:35] <sacater> hope I spelt that right
[12:35] <Burgundavia> derivative, actually, but we will forgive you for it :)
[12:36] <pochu> I can confirm sacater has been helping new users, and triaging some bugs :)
[12:36] <cypherbios> :)
[12:36] <sacater> whoot!
[12:36] <Burgundavia> impressive karma
[12:36] <sacater> thanks
[12:36] <Burgundavia> LaserJock: I notice he mentions you on his wiki page
[12:37] <elmo> hmm, sacater is this you're second time around?
[12:37] <sacater> yes
[12:37] <sacater> first time I was told to give it a month or 2 more
[12:37] <sacater> to prove i wasnt grab and run
[12:38] <sacater> 'get the membership and do nothing'
[12:38] <elmo> heh - when was that?
[12:38] <sacater> er
[12:38] <elmo> (roughly)
[12:38] <sacater> about a month and a half back
[12:38] <Seveas> yup
[12:39] <Seveas> april 17
[12:39] <sabdfl_> +1 from me on sacater
[12:39] <Seveas> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda?action=recall&rev=800
[12:39] <elmo> yeah, +1 - thanks for coming back :)
[12:39] <sacater> sabdfl_: thanks
[12:39] <Burgundavia> +1 from me
[12:39] <sacater> elmo: thanks
[12:39] <sacater> Burgundavia: thanks
[12:39] <sacater> :D
[12:40] <dholbach> +1 from me too
[12:40] <Seveas> MikeB- ?
[12:40] <sacater> dholbach: :D
[12:40] <MikeB-> +1 here, and get off my lawn:)
[12:40] <Seveas> hehe
[12:40] <Burgundavia> get 'm young, my mother always said :)
[12:40] <sacater> gah
[12:40] <Seveas> excellent work, welcome sacater !
[12:40] <sacater> WHOOT!
[12:40] <Seveas> sfair, you're next
[12:40] <AndyP> sacater: congrats
[12:40] <sfair> so, let's go. My name is Rafael Sfair and I'm one of the administrators of the Ubuntu Brazilian Documentation team.
[12:40] <sacater> AndyP: ty
[12:40] <sfair> Most of my work is helping to organize the team and creating new documentation.
[12:40] <sfair> You can find a list of some contribuitions in my wikipage (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RafaelSfair) and my LP page (https://launchpad.net/~sfair), and some contributions maybe can't be directly measured :)
[12:42] <OgMaciel> my testimonial pretty much says everything I wanted to say in support for sfair
[12:42] <Seveas> I'm impressed with sfairs wikipage, good work!
[12:42] <sfair> thanks to cypherbios that helped me :)
[12:42] <cypherbios> I gave my testimonial in this wikipage, but here is a bit more:
[12:42] <cypherbios> Sfair is one of the greatest contributors of the Ubuntu-BR community. Hi works hard on our documentation team (ubuntu-br-doc) and is also a Official translator for pt_BR. Always helps people who wants to contribute pointing them to the right path, if there's someone who I support would be sfair (as well  n3t0 too ;) ). His advocate in the Ubuntu Brazilian community is something amazing to see. I completely agree and support sfair's m
[12:42] <cypherbios> embership.
[12:44] <Burgundavia> I see some solid contributions and good testimonials
[12:44] <sabdfl_> sfair: we love physicists round here :-)
[12:44] <sabdfl_> +1 from me on the back of strong recommendations from team-BR
[12:45] <sfair> sabdfl_: are there more?? im not th only one? im so happy! :D
[12:45] <cypherbios> a very very geeky guy, indeed !
[12:45] <Burgundavia> +1 from me
[12:45] <sabdfl_> sfair: would you see if you can get in touch with the guys who build Scientific Linux?
[12:45] <sabdfl_> i think they are from Fermilab
[12:45] <MikeB-> +1 here
[12:45] <sabdfl_> i'd like to meet them
[12:45] <sabdfl_> see if they would do a version based on Ubuntu too
[12:45] <sfair> sabdfl_: it's one of my goals...
[12:45] <elmo> +1
[12:45] <dholbach> +1 from me too
[12:46] <sfair> sabdfl_: it wuld be amazing
[12:46] <sfair> *would
[12:46] <Seveas> That's +5, welcome aboard sfair!
[12:46] <sfair> thanks :)
[12:46] <cypherbios> :D
[12:46] <Seveas> n3t0, you're up now
[12:46] <cypherbios> congrats sfair!!
[12:46] <OgMaciel> sfair does all of his research on Ubuntu, isn't that right sfair?
[12:46] <sfair> OgMaciel: yes... all my work
[12:46] <n3t0> My name is Alysson Neto and I'm  one of the administrators of the Brazilian Ubuntu Forum, also I'm a member of the Ubuntu Brazilian Doc Team
[12:46] <n3t0> where I have the function to find material tu put in the wiki. You can find a list of some contribuitions in wiki wikipage (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlyssonNeto) and my LP page (https://launchpad.net/~alysson-neto)
[12:46] <kalon33> congrats sfair
[12:47] <OgMaciel> n3t0: could you paste some stats about the volume (network) traffic the forum currently generates?
[12:48] <n3t0> 11819 members
[12:48] <Burgundavia> I might add: I love the recommendations stuff the Brazillian people are putting on their pages
[12:48] <n3t0> 108080 posts
[12:48] <Burgundavia> it makes it a lot easier to make decisions
[12:48] <n3t0> 19258 topics
[12:48] <Burgundavia> other loco teams might want to take note
[12:48] <cypherbios> Burgundavia: thanks, we do our best in all :)
[12:49] <FaBMak> n3t0 is a co-worker and a friend in Ubuntu-BR Forum, together we do improvements and support it. I can say that he really like Ubuntu and our community.
[12:49] <OgMaciel> the Brazilian Forum (and other portuguese languages)  has a rock solid team of administrators/moderators and n3t0 is doing an amazing job with the limited support they have
[12:49] <cypherbios> n3t0 is one of the guys responsible to keep our *huge* ubuntu forum for portuguese speakers (include people from brazil, portugal and many others countries who speaks PT). His works is awesome in the forum administration, such as posting moderation as well system administration related stuff. I agree and support his membership.
[12:49] <Seveas> impressive, how many brazilian ubuntu members do we have now?
[12:49] <sfair> and n3t0 in and important link betweek the ubuntu-br-doc and forum
[12:49] <OgMaciel> Seveas: approx. 15?
[12:49] <sabdfl_> hmm... i wonder if we should not have a team in .BR where we delegate membership for local advocacy, translation, infrastructure work
[12:49] <cypherbios> Seveas: 15
[12:50] <Seveas> OgMaciel, I thought there would be more, but 15 already is a lot :)
[12:50] <OgMaciel> sabdfl_: we've been thinking along the same lines here too
[12:50] <cypherbios> most likely in the next meeting Ubuntu-BR LoCo will be around here ;)
[12:50] <OgMaciel> Seveas: we prefer that our users spend some time doing work before we point them to the CC
[12:51] <Seveas> are we ready to vote or are there still questions?
[12:51] <Burgundavia> not from me
[12:52] <sabdfl_> +1 from me on the back of forums admin work
[12:52] <Burgundavia> +1 to the Brazillian horde^WWW n3t0
[12:52] <dholbach> I'm happy with n3t0, +1 from me
[12:52] <Seveas> elmo, MikeB- ?
[12:52] <MikeB-> +1 here
[12:52] <elmo> +1
[12:53] <Seveas> woohoo
[12:53] <OgMaciel> congrats n3t0
[12:53] <Seveas> welcome n3t0
[12:53] <OgMaciel> :)
[12:53] <Seveas> yarddog, you're up
[12:53] <cypherbios> n3t0: :)
[12:53] <n3t0> thanks a lot
[12:53] <FaBMak> congrats n3t0
[12:53] <tritium> Seveas: I don't believe yarddog was able to attend
[12:53] <Seveas> his idle time seems to indicate that
[12:53] <Seveas> profoX`, then you're up
[12:53] <profoX`> euhm okay :)
[12:53] <profoX`> Good night everyone (or possibly evening for some of you). I am Wesley Stessens (profoX) and I became a very active Ubuntu user and supporter in the last few years. I am very active in the NL and BE locoteams. I help to maintain the Dutch website and forum. I translate USN's to Dutch. I try to get involved with the rest of the community as much as I can.. Occasionally I travel far to be able to represent Ubuntu in Belgium and The
[12:53] <profoX`> Netherlands. But I also try to do other things. I am chipping in everywhere I can. Marketing (ubuntu shirts for BE, ubuntu-nl magazine), Support (forums, IRC), Moderation (website, forums), Advocacy (everywhere), Programming, Packaging... You can read the wikipage for a more thorough description of all my activities in (and related to) Ubuntu; https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WesleyStessens
[12:54] <tritium> Seveas: I came on his behalf
[12:54] <dholbach> Seveas: didn't he mail and said that he can't make it, and tritium would speak for him?
[12:54] <Seveas> dholbach, maybe he mailed to community-council@, I don't get that mail
[12:54] <dholbach> Seveas: he CCed you :-)
[12:54] <Seveas> besides, we've never done 'speaking on behalf' and I don't see a rason to make an exception
[12:55] <dholbach> right, ok
[12:55] <dholbach> that's fine with me
[12:55] <tritium> I'll pass that along to him.
[12:55] <dholbach> thanks tritium
[12:55] <tritium> Thanks, dholbach.
[12:55] <Seveas> dholbach, odd, I don't see mail from him
[12:56] <Burgundavia> Seveas: I can confirm that you were cc'ed
[12:56] <tritium> Was he given any form of reply?
[12:56] <Burgundavia> not that I see
[12:56] <Seveas> Burgundavia, can you pm me the from address? I'll grep through amavis' quarantine
[12:57] <dholbach> ahhhh dennis@ubuntu.com vs seveas@ubuntu.com
[12:57] <Seveas> dholbach, heh
[12:57] <Seveas> indeed seveas@ does not exist, although some people seem to think it does :)
[12:57] <Burgundavia> be nice if LP could do aliases liek that
[12:57] <Seveas> anyway, back to the subject of profoX`
[12:57] <Burgundavia> sabdfl_: ^
[12:58] <Seveas> I want to cheer for him, he's doing massive amountsof work on the dutch forums, and other parts of the dutch locoteam
[12:58] <JanC> I've seen profoX` being active on the ubuntu-nl forums & IRC too
[12:58] <AndyP> good work on the wiki page, impressive stuff
[12:58] <elmo> +1
[12:58] <ablomen> *cheers
[12:58] <Burgundavia> +1 based on that
[12:59] <dholbach> +1 from me too
[12:59] <MikeB-> +1
[12:59] <JanC> and he has a nice blog in Dutch that explains things in a readable way
[12:59] <JanC> :)
[12:59] <dholbach> with that, I have too leave now
[12:59] <Seveas> dholbach, ok, goodnight!
[12:59] <dholbach> have a nice evening everybody and see you tomorrow
[12:59] <sabdfl_> awesome wiki page
[12:59] <sabdfl_> +1 from me!
[12:59] <Seveas> nice
[12:59] <Seveas> good job profoX` !
[12:59] <kalon33> good night dholbach
[12:59] <sabdfl_> night dholbach
[12:59] <profoX`> yea.. I did my homework :)
[12:59] <Burgundavia> do we still have quorum?
[01:00] <Seveas> And this unfortunately ends todays meting as we now no longer have quorum :(
[01:00] <kalon33> I have to mail you about telepathy stuff soon...
[01:00] <sabdfl_> for members, yes
[01:00] <Seveas> sabdfl_, no, we're now 4 of 8, we need 5 according to what we agreed on earlier :)
[01:00] <JanC> (too many Dutch/Flemish people blog in English)
[01:00] <MikeB-> I have to leave in 15 minute, my wife teach tonight and I have to pick up my son
[01:00] <sabdfl_> for members? i think 3/4 is fine
[01:01] <sabdfl_> if there's a controversial decision, we can set tighter guidelines
[01:01] <sabdfl_> but i don't think we should block memebrships on high quorum
[01:01] <sabdfl_> in fact, i think we should delegate more
[01:01] <sabdfl_> any objections?
[01:01] <tritium> Seveas: could someone give yarddog a reply please?
[01:02] <Seveas> tritium, I will
[01:02] <tritium> Thank you.
[01:02] <JanC> profoX`: it seems like you forgot to mention you wrote some patches for beryl too   ;)
[01:02] <Seveas> No objections yet, so let's continu with memberships
[01:02] <profoX`> JanC: yes but that was no big deal.. just small bugfixes and very small enhancements
[01:02] <sabdfl_> ok, we have 4 to go
[01:02] <Burgundavia> 4 if it is unanimous?
[01:02] <Seveas> pleia2, you're next on the list
[01:02] <pleia2> Hi, I'm Elizabeth Bevilacqua. I've been working with the Ubuntu-Women Project for just over a year, I now an admin on the website, wiki and am the contact for #Ubuntu-Women.
[01:03] <pleia2> ore recently I've helped launch the US-PA Loco Team, where I admin the website and planet, op in IRC and have participated in and helped organize a few events.
[01:03] <pleia2> s/ore/More
[01:03] <Seveas> Burgundavia, so far there are only unanimous decisions when it comes to membership (only a few +0's)
[01:03] <Seveas> :)
[01:03] <yarddog> i am here now
[01:03] <Burgundavia> Seveas: there have been disagreements in the past
[01:04] <Burgundavia> pleia2: anybody from the -pa loco team?
[01:04] <dinda> Pleia2 has been doing some amazing work for the ubuntu community;  and brings lots of upstream knowledge (Debian package maintainer) and linuxchix
[01:04] <Susana> I'm here to cheer for pleia2, she has done a great effort to dynamize the ubuntu-women project and she's one of its greatest contributers. She has always been very wise in her decisions i think she'll be a great member.
[01:04] <yarddog> Seveas: i am here now
[01:05] <elmo> +1
[01:05] <AndyP> strong fanclub :)
[01:05] <Seveas> yarddog, excellent!
[01:05] <Burgundavia> +1
[01:05] <MikeB-> +1
[01:05] <Burgundavia> yay for more women to bridge our awful gender inequality
[01:05] <pleia2> :)
[01:05] <Seveas> yarddog, prepare a few lines of introduction so you can paste them when we call you. Pm me when ready
[01:05] <kalon33> AndyP: yes, what a good fanclub :p
[01:05] <yarddog> Seveas: ok
[01:05] <dinda> she's a rock star
[01:06] <kalon33> lol dinda ^^
[01:06] <Seveas> dinda, speaking of which, where's the movie of mark and me?
[01:06] <JanC> no, she's a princess ;)
[01:06] <tritium> I am sshed in from work, but have to leave.  I support yarddog's applications, as he has been instrumental in helping with the creation of the New Mexico LoCO, #ubuntu-newmexico, the mailing list, requseting the LoCO bot, recruiting members, etc.
[01:06] <dinda> seveas - being saved for the 'right' moment to reveal  ;-)
[01:06] <sabdfl_> tritium: we'd love to have him, let's see if a better timed meeting comes along
[01:06] <Seveas> dinda, I want to see it :)
[01:07] <tritium> sabdfl_: okay, I understand.  Thank you.
[01:07] <sabdfl_> pleia2: could you give us a quick state-of-the-nation on U-W?
[01:07] <Seveas> sabdfl_, he's here now :)
[01:07] <dinda> seveas - I'll add it to my 2do list - promise
[01:07] <Burgundavia> unfortunately I need to run
[01:07] <Seveas> hmm, the CC is falling apart :/
[01:08] <Burgundavia> we are past 2 hours...
[01:08] <pleia2> sabdfl_: we're currently working on a few projects we have out there - gathering mentors for our mentoring program and courses; and waiting on some informaiton from the recent UDS to move forward with more HCI stuff
[01:08] <elkbuntu> Seveas, the meeting has hit 2hrs
[01:08] <kalon33> sure elkbuntu
[01:08] <elkbuntu> kalon33, hmm?
[01:08] <MikeB-> any chance to do the last two memberships
[01:08] <dinda> and we're trying to get Pleia2 to offer an IRC ops course
[01:08] <pleia2> dinda: working on it!
[01:09] <MikeB-> Breunellus and Toxicity999
[01:09] <kalon33> elkbuntu: (about the meeting length)
[01:09] <Seveas> MikeB-, and yarddog
[01:09] <sabdfl_> ok, +1 from me mainly on the back of dinda and other recommendations
[01:09] <Seveas> ok, that's 4 out of 4
[01:10] <Seveas> yarddog is next (we still have 3 CC members)
[01:10] <dinda> She's shy but she does amazing work for Ubuntu
[01:10] <Seveas> welcome aboard pleia2 !
[01:10] <etank> good job pleia2
[01:10] <MikeB-> I have 5 minutes:)
[01:10] <pleia2> thanks everyone!
[01:10] <sabdfl_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Luigi_de_guzman
[01:10] <Brunellus> I'm Luigi de Guzman, aka Brunellus.  I've been an ubuntu user since Warty.  I'm a Forums staff member, an op on #ubuntuforums, a member of the NU Ubuntu Team.
[01:10] <yarddog> I first started using Ubuntu about 2 years ago and have used various formats of Linux since 2001. In the fall of 2006, I helped start the IRC channel #ubuntu-newmexico on the Freenode IRC Network in conjunction with Ubuntu Member  Michael Rimbert. I have helped in starting the [WWW]  New Mexico Team Launchpad site and the  Team wiki site as well as add the Team to the list of  LoCo's. I requested the locobot for the IRC channe
[01:10] <sabdfl_> url in the agenda is busted
[01:10] <yarddog> My goals for the New Mexico Team is to include recruiting LoCo membership, assist fellow users with technical problems where possible, continue to serve the New Mexico Team, assist in getting the New Mexico Team recognized and approved, and overall, be a catalyst for Ubuntu.
[01:10] <DarkSun88> pleia2: Congratulations.
[01:10] <Seveas> Brunellus, sabdfl_: yarddog is first
[01:10] <Brunellus> sabdfl_: should be fixed
[01:10] <Brunellus> sorry, sabdfl_posted my name.
[01:11] <sabdfl_> well, +1 from me for Brunellus on the back of being a Forums staff member
[01:11] <gnomefreak> pleia2: congrats
[01:11] <Seveas> sabdfl_, are you ignoring me now? :)
[01:11] <sabdfl_> any other quick acks?
[01:12] <lamalex> +1 for pleia
[01:12] <lamalex> sorry it's late
[01:12] <lamalex> and unneeded
[01:12] <sabdfl_> Seveas: no, sorry, was just following the agenda, didn't see yarddog arrive
[01:12] <sabdfl_> welcome yarddog
[01:12] <MikeB-> +1 for brunellus, a great mod on the forums and a pleasure to work with
[01:12] <sabdfl_> we've heard many good things about you :-)
[01:12] <yarddog> hello sabdfl_ :P
[01:12] <elmo> +1 for brunellus
[01:12] <sabdfl_> 3/4
[01:12] <PriceChild> HUGE cheer for Brunellus !!!
[01:13] <Seveas> sabdfl_, 3/3 -> Burgundavia left
[01:13] <sabdfl_> done
[01:13] <sabdfl_> welcome!
[01:13] <Brunellus> YAY!
[01:13] <sabdfl_> yarddog: fire away
[01:13] <Brunellus> thanks everyone!
[01:13] <MikeB-> yarddog your wiki is kinda thin, what is your launchpad
[01:13] <Seveas> sabdfl_, scroll up :)
[01:13] <sacater> sabdfl_: pm
[01:13] <yarddog> MikeB-: http://launchpad.net/~jamesbunnell
[01:14] <Brunellus> Thanks everybody!  I'll get my key signed soon enough.  I'm off to catch a train.
[01:15] <MikeB-> yarddog: you are off to a good start, but I think you are not quite ready,
[01:15] <sabdfl_> yarddog: agree with MikeB- on that front, the documentation in wiki and LP is thinner than your number of fans would suggest
[01:16] <MikeB-> are you invloved in other Ubuntu areas
[01:16] <yarddog> ive begun getting involved in kubuntu as well
[01:16] <sabdfl_> it may well be that there's more to the story, but it's not documented there
[01:16] <sabdfl_> could you spend some time on your profile in the project, then come back?
[01:16] <sabdfl_> there's no rush
[01:18] <MikeB-> yarddog: expand your profile and come back, we would love to see you apply again
[01:18] <yarddog> ok
[01:18] <sabdfl_> thanks for taking the time to come now, though
[01:18] <sabdfl_> ok
[01:18] <Seveas> last one
[01:18] <sabdfl_> final stop?
[01:18] <Seveas> Toxicity999,
[01:18] <hidan> go go toxicity!!! :D
[01:19] <Toxicity999> Okay then! First, way sorry for holding up the meeting. And some people who I had asked to come help me out with some words of love couldn't make it, but moving on to the goodies!
[01:19] <cypherbios> toxicity, like SOAD. cool! :)
[01:19] <Toxicity999> Lol
[01:19] <Toxicity999> Yes.
[01:19] <Toxicity999> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BryanHaskins
[01:19] <Toxicity999> Hi, I'm Bryan, I'm 16 years old and I live in Maine, the Canada of the States, and I've been working, as a user, with Ubuntu Since late in the release of hoary (Basically just before breezy) And I have made my mark in the community support sector. I hover the forums answering support needs with a lot of my free time, and even cover lead on the Launchpad (Ubuntu Answers) bit of The Forums Beginners Team. I spend a lot of my time doing
[01:19] <Toxicity999>  the little things, like walking people through large issues more directly via irc.
[01:20] <sabdfl_> that's awesome
[01:21] <Toxicity999> And if you wonder why my Launchpad doesn't exactly reflect my claim to the Beginners team thing, basically we haven't 100% organized the Launchpad end yet. But you can see I lead the LP team on my account there. :D
[01:22] <MikeB-> Toxicity999 does good work on the forums
[01:23] <MikeB-> any other feedback for Toxicity999
[01:23] <sabdfl_> Toxicity999: are you a forums moderator or staff member?
[01:23] <Toxicity999> No, not currently.
[01:24] <sabdfl_> ok
[01:24] <sabdfl_> it seems you are helping in a very nice way
[01:24] <MikeB-> sabdfl_: he is on a couple of our teams, not a moderator/staff
[01:24] <Seveas> MikeB-, do something about that kthxbye ;)
[01:24] <sabdfl_> Toxicity999: what's your main reason for wanting to become a member?
[01:25] <MikeB-> I do have to go
[01:25] <Seveas> MikeB-, can we rcord a vote on Toxicity999 ?
[01:25] <Toxicity999> Well, I think that there is a certain level of trust which comes with it. I mean sure, it feels nice for me, some kind of accomplishment, but It seems as though users put more faith in you when they notice you.
[01:26] <MikeB-> I think Toxicity999 is off to a good start, but I would like to see more
[01:26] <Toxicity999> A lot of what I do is just really hard to tally, I think.
[01:26] <DBO> I know its a little late, but woo woo Toxicity999 =)
[01:27] <Toxicity999> I've been way more active on IRC lately. Whcih without scouring the logs and such kind of hard to quantify.
[01:27] <hidan> oh good to go toxicity
[01:27] <Toxicity999> This is a really awkward silence =D
[01:27] <MikeB-> Toxicity999: I say keep up the good work and come back in a couple of month
[01:28] <hidan> awwww toxic... hmm.
[01:28] <MikeB-> PM me in the forums and we can work on quanify your work in th wiki
[01:28] <MikeB-> Mike in the forums
[01:28] <MikeB-> later all
[01:28] <MikeB-> I must get
[01:29] <Toxicity999> Alright, I think it might of worked out if more of the people I was hoping to show up would have =S they were all busy tonight.
[01:29] <sabdfl_> sorry
[01:29] <Seveas> ok, so that concludes todays meeting (now we really have no quorum).
[01:29] <sabdfl_> wrapping up for the night here
[01:29] <hidan> huh
[01:29] <sabdfl_> you're in good shape Toxicity999, but not there yet
[01:29] <Seveas> Toxicity999, good luck next time, I'm sure you'll make it!
[01:29] <sabdfl_> keep going!
[01:29] <sabdfl_> seveas, it's just you and me!
[01:29] <sabdfl_> and elmo
[01:29] <Toxicity999> Understood =]  Thanks.
[01:29] <Seveas> datetim for next meeting?
[01:29] <sabdfl_> heh. whenever WE want :-)
[01:30] <sabdfl_> perhaps something early UTC, for the Asian side of the world?
[01:30] <Toxicity999> Well now it just has to be when it's inconvenient for the ditchers, hehe.
[01:30] <Seveas> june 13, 09:00 UTC?
[01:30] <Seveas> (edubuntu has the room 14:00-16:00)
[01:31] <elmo> fine by me, FWIW
[01:31] <elmo> maybe ask the list before confirming though?
[01:31] <Seveas> yeah, will do
[01:32] <sabdfl_> aaahm
[01:32] <sabdfl_> i think i'm in the USA on that date
[01:32] <Seveas> launchpad will be poked tomorrow
[01:32] <sabdfl_> so i won't be up for that one :-(
[01:32] <sabdfl_> thanks seveas
[01:32] <sabdfl_> thanks elmo
[01:32] <effie_jayx> sabdfl_,  thanks
[01:32] <Seveas> sabdfl_, available online if we make it a more reasonable USA time?
[01:32] <sabdfl_> welcome again effie_jayx
[01:33] <mneptok> effie_jayx: congrats
[01:33] <sabdfl_> Seveas: i'll be jetlagged, so hard to predict
[01:33] <Seveas> ok
[01:33] <hidan> sabdfl = mark, right? O_o;; wow... but thanks for establishing canonical, mark.
[01:33] <sabdfl_> don't block on me, my travel schedule is a nightmare in the next 3 months
[01:33] <nixternal> lol
[01:33] <effie_jayx> mneptok,  :D
[01:33] <sabdfl_> you're welcome, hidan
[01:33] <Seveas> okay, I'll poke the CC list then. g'night for now
[01:33] <sabdfl_> night all!
[01:33] <hidan> =) see you!
[01:33] <nixternal> g'nite sabdfl_
[01:34] <DarkSun88> G'night all
[01:34] <nixternal> congrats to all of the new members btw!
[01:34] <nixternal> good job!
[01:34] <sacater> tan
[01:34] <sacater> thanks
[01:34] <DarkSun88> Thanks
[01:34] <effie_jayx> nixternal,  thanks for you vow :D
[01:34] <nixternal> np effie_jayx, anytime!
[01:35] <ajmitch> mneptok: on the basis of your good looks & stunning charm?
[01:36] <profoX`> good night everyone; thanks nixternal
[01:36] <mneptok> ajmitch: no, i thought i my try something not so laughable.
[01:36] <mneptok> *might
[01:36] <kalon33> good night all !!
[01:37] <kalon33> and congrats again for all who join us !
[01:38] <effie_jayx> kalon33,  thanks :D
[01:38] <DarkSun88> kalon33: Thanks. :)
[01:38] <kalon33> you're welcome ;)
[01:39] <guglielf> DarkSun88: congrats from italy too ;)
[01:39] <kalon33> bye, it' about 1:30 AM here :p
[01:39] <DarkSun88> guerby: Thanks a lot :D
[01:39] <kalon33> so time to sleep ^^
[01:42] <DarkSun88> G'night and thanks for the membership
[01:44] <jsgotangco> i guess it has ended huh
[01:45] <Burgundavia> yep, yer missed it
[01:45] <Burgundavia> :0
[01:45] <Burgundavia> :), rather
[01:45] <jsgotangco> its alright its like 7:30 am here :P
[01:45] <Burgundavia> heh
[01:45] <profoX`> jsgotangco: where do you live?
[01:45] <jsgotangco> the meeting started like 5am
[01:45] <jsgotangco> profoX`: manila, philippines
[01:46] <profoX`> jsgotangco: ow that's far away :)
[01:47] <jsgotangco> profoX`: fortunately the council membership is big enough and spread on timezones so not everyone is required to be online, just a majority
[01:57] <ypsila> uhh
[01:57] <ypsila> alive
[03:20] <amachu>  hi
[02:00] <RichEd> hello edubunuteros
[02:00] <RichEd> get your coffee now ... open: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Devel/RoadMap
[02:01] <RichEd> we'll kick off in 3 min
[02:03] <ogra> soo
[02:03] <RichEd> hi all ...
[02:04] <RichEd> Technical :  We're looking at specs for Edubuntu Gutsy+1
[02:04] <ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Devel/RoadMap a list is here
[02:05] <RichEd> ogra: explain the soec process nicely for me ... do all specs that we want considered for Gutsy have to be registerd by tomorrow
[02:05] <RichEd> *spec process
[02:05] <ogra> yes
[02:05] <RichEd> and who sets the priorities ?
[02:05] <ogra> thats our job
[02:05] <RichEd> assuming we agree on them here today, who actually tags them him/medium/low
[02:06] <ogra> (we should look into letting the EC handle that in the future probably, not sure)
[02:06] <ogra> i can do the prio setting
[02:06] <ogra> and set you as the approver
[02:07] <ogra> then you go through them and approve or decline them for gutsy
[02:07] <RichEd> okay ... when does the "approve decline" need to be done by ?
[02:07] <ogra> (i think we should even approve the ones that will take two releases for gutsy and note down in the whiteboard thast the spec is expected to go over two releases)
[02:08] <RichEd> and how does the high/medium/low relate to the release ... it there a "hard link" or is it just an indication of work effort ?
[02:08] <ogra> RichEd, asap i dont think there is a deadline though and it should suffice to do it through the next week
[02:09] <ogra> as i said in #edubuntu, from my POV all high prio specfs have to be done by release
[02:09] <highvoltage> good afternoon
[02:09] <pips1_away> hi folks, unfortunately, I'm in another meeting, but I'll try to join you towards the end, for community agenda bit
[02:09] <ogra> mid *can* slip into next release
[02:09] <ogra> low is a "if we get to it" prio
[02:09] <pips1_away> hi highvoltage, please see ^^^
[02:10] <highvoltage> pips1_away: yep, saw that. I'll ping you a bit later this afternoon too.
[02:10] <RichEd> ogra: noted ... so that is a soft link it is better to create a release and allocate and approve for the release ?
[02:10] <ogra> low should be the ones that are integrateable easily by community members as well
[02:10] <RichEd> and can we create a release for gutsy+1 and allocate some specs against that now ? or is that something we should rather manage through wiki page(s)
[02:10] <ogra> lauchpasd already has that function, we just need to set the release
[02:11] <ogra> if its not a feature yet to allocate to distro+1 we'll need to do a feature request, that an essential feature imho
[02:11] <ogra> but i think it is
[02:12] <RichEd> okay ... I'll try to outline the current feature set and the next featrure set in a wiki page to provide a 12 month planning cycle from a human readable perspective (and link to the existing LP specs).
[02:13] <RichEd> current as in current dev cycle (not existing feature set)
[02:13] <ogra> hmm, i'm just in a spec page
[02:13] <ogra> you cant propose it for gutsy+1
[02:14] <ogra> and you are the approvedr for ldm-improvements now :)
[02:14] <RichEd> okay ... so we can manage via a wiki page then ...
[02:14] <RichEd> thanks
[02:14] <RichEd> (I think)
[02:14] <ogra> but we should propose it for gutsy as well, so its on the radar
[02:14] <RichEd> allright ... so throwing this open to the floor ...
[02:15] <RichEd> highvoltage: ltsp-boot-performance, ldm-improvements, edubuntu-application-review, edubuntu-artwork-procedures
[02:15] <ogra> the "Propose as goal" option in the spec has a comments field, we can not it there
[02:15] <RichEd> oops ... autocomplete ... let me try that again
[02:15] <highvoltage> heh
[02:15] <RichEd> HIGH-PRIORITY: ltsp-boot-performance, ldm-improvements, edubuntu-application-review, edubuntu-artwork-procedures
[02:15] <RichEd> MEDIUM: ltsp-update-manager-integration, ltspfs-virtual-hal-devices, edubuntu-addon-enhancements, edubuntu-menus-completion, edubuntu-documentation-procedures
[02:15] <ogra> you wanted the doc stuff there as well
[02:16] <ogra> (in high)
[02:16] <ogra> right, we'll need to assign them to people as well if they are approved
[02:16] <RichEd> LOW:  all the rest
[02:16] <RichEd> --- that's from oliver ---
[02:16] <RichEd> RichEd asked for documentation to move up to HIGH
[02:18] <RichEd> so the lists are then with my change:
[02:18] <ogra> hmm, i cant change the prio of ldm-improvements
[02:18] <RichEd> HIGH-PRIORITY: ltsp-boot-performance, ldm-improvements, edubuntu-application-review, edubuntu-artwork-procedures,  edubuntu-documentation-procedures
[02:18] <ogra> not even if i set myself to be approver
[02:18] <RichEd> any idea why ?
[02:19] <ogra> no. but i'll find that out, dont worry
[02:19] <ogra> i guess because ubuntu owns it
[02:21] <ogra> (nothing we need to clearify during the meeting though)
[02:21] <RichEd> okay ... then how will this work" "we'll need to assign them to people as well if they are approved"
[02:22] <RichEd> when does each spec need an assigneee by ?
[02:22] <ogra> you set the asignee field to someone :)
[02:22] <ogra> we should assign them while approving
[02:22] <ogra> or right after
[02:23] <RichEd> by when does that need to be done ? and what happens if a spec is approved, and no-one assigned ... does it just lie there, or does some sort of action / notification get triggered ?
[02:23] <ogra> mainly it will be vagrant and me anyway
[02:23] <ogra> all high prio specs *need* to be assigned
[02:23] <RichEd> (forgive the LP newbie questions, but I'm trying to get an outside perspective :)
[02:23] <ogra> all others are up to our liking
[02:24] <RichEd> now how do we balance the work effort vs the time available to the resources ...
[02:24] <ogra> (that goes hand in hand with my priorization of "has to be done by relese", "can wait til next for finishing", "if we get to it"
[02:25] <ogra> gut feeling ?
[02:25] <ogra> jno idea ... that depends on the spec
[02:25] <RichEd> is it just up to each person to be mature in estimating what they can handle ?
[02:25] <ogra> i.e. the ltsp-boot-performance thing is an ongoing process with many many small aspects
[02:25] <RichEd> ideally, we'd want to accurately define:
[02:25] <ogra> you cant set a timeline for that
[02:25] <RichEd> * what needs to be done
[02:26] <ogra> but you can for things like ldm gets a new gui
[02:26] <RichEd> * what we can cope with with the existing resources
[02:26] <RichEd> * GAP in resources and what we need to meet the target
[02:27] <ogra> right
[02:27] <ogra> the spec should usually tell us how much ressources are needed
[02:27] <ogra> or at least give a base for a guesstimate
[02:28] <RichEd> I'm referring more to specs we need to have addressed, but for which we have no resources ... given that we have permission to recruit at least 1 new developer.
[02:28] <ogra> as i see it many ltsp specs will be assigned to vagrant anyway i will keep one or two (and we'll work together on most stuff upstream anyway)
[02:30] <ogra> ltsp-palm-devices is something sbalneav is doing for his company anyway
[02:30] <ogra> so we could assign it to him  ...
[02:30] <RichEd> okay.
[02:30] <ogra> (he will do it upstream no mateter if there is a spec ;) )
[02:30] <ogra> *matter
[02:30] <PriceChild> (Sorry for the noise there, we forgot to unban after the CC when everyone was using @now)
[02:31] <RichEd> so assming we pick up a new developer in say July, how do we allocate a spec to an as yet undetermined staff member ?
[02:31] <RichEd> *assuming
[02:31] <ogra> ltsp update-manager integration is something i can take ... as well as the addon enhancements
[02:31] <ogra> they adress the same app
[02:31] <ogra> or nearly the same
[02:32] <ogra> RichEd, i would act like we have nobody for now and then he can pick up mid or low prio ones for getting warm with us :)
[02:32] <ogra> (or she, who knows)
[02:32] <RichEd> indeed :)
[02:33] <RichEd> can you change the allocated person mid way through a cycle ?
[02:33] <ogra> i wouldnt expect someone who starts in the middle of a cycle to be on full speed from day one on
[02:33] <ogra> sure
[02:34] <RichEd> okay ... so we can allocate some to you in the meanwhile, and reassign depending on the level of resource we pick up if needs be.
[02:34] <ogra> especially since feature freeze is already on august 16th
[02:34] <ogra> so he/she wont have much time to work into it
[02:35] <ogra> a new developer would have to help me with milestone releases and iso builds rather, thats something that will be going on at that time
[02:35] <ogra> so i could concentrate more on the features i'm already working on
[02:35] <RichEd> anything else for specs for today then ? I
[02:36] <ogra> not really, i will see to get the prios set and you as approver
[02:36] <ogra> then i'll notify you
[02:36] <RichEd> I'll out some sort of overview page together bridging the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Devel/RoadMap page and the LP info ...
[02:36] <ogra> and next meeting we should hand out specs to people (assign)
[02:36] <RichEd> And use that to put the soft comments against, especially the specs we *need* for gutsy+1
[02:37] <ogra> right
[02:37] <RichEd> That's fine with me.
[02:37] <RichEd> What else under technical ...
[02:37] <ogra> next meeting is also an evening meeting ...
[02:37] <ogra> so we should have sbalneav and LaserJock around
[02:37] <RichEd> (at the moment it looks like you & me in here at the moment with occasional murmer from highvoltage)
[02:37] <ogra> actually we should have everyone who would like to help with specs here
[02:38] <ogra> well, vagrantc is surely following in curiosity
[02:38] <highvoltage> RichEd: yes, I have quite a bad cold which seems to have started this afternoon, so it's quite literally a murmer
[02:38] <ogra> and full of excitement about all the tgreat specs we'll assign him *g*
[02:39] <vagrantc> starting mid-cycle is definitely an issue for me
[02:39] <RichEd> highvoltage: not a complaint at all :)
[02:39] <vagrantc> highvoltage: mustache, actually.
[02:39] <RichEd> vagrantc: do you have any idea when you would be able to dig in for full time commitment /
[02:39] <ogra> vagrantc, well, given that you work on much stuff upstream already anyway i dont see much probs here
[02:39] <vagrantc> RichEd: still in contract negotiations... if all works out, early july?
[02:40] <RichEd> great ... the sooner the better for all of us :)
[02:40] <ogra> vagrantc, cant you get the paper stuff sent to someone you meet at debconf ?
[02:41] <ogra> oh, ok
[02:41] <highvoltage> ohno, I hoped vagrantc would've joined by now :(
[02:41] <ogra> me too
[02:41] <RichEd> me three
[02:41] <ogra> but seems we have to wait until the paperwork is done
[02:42] <ogra> anyway, on other tech notes i managed to shove off 10 seconds from the ltsp bootime on the e2300 (our worst thin client)
[02:43] <ogra> we're at 113seconds now on that hardeware ... still a long way to go
[02:44] <ogra> sbalneav is working on a replacement for the python stuff in ldm and said he saw a 20 second speedup there
[02:44] <ogra> (with a C implementation)
[02:44] <ogra> he is also working on integration apssword expiry handling
[02:44] <ogra> *password
[02:44] <ogra> and it looks really good :)
[02:44] <highvoltage> ogra: that sounds very promising.
[02:45] <ogra> yeah
[02:45] <ogra> we'll have a completely new and way faster ldm in gutsy
[02:45] <ogra> vagrantc, why ?
[02:46] <vagrantc> ogra: because handling passwords is tricky business, and a shame to have to re-implement otherwise well tested code
[02:46] <ogra> right, but python seems to cost us 20 seconds
[02:46] <vagrantc> as long as there's some good security review, it's probably fine.
[02:47] <ogra> so a C implementaition that cuts these is valuable
[02:47] <ogra> i will run it through our security team as soon as scott gives me code
[02:48] <RichEd> anything else on technical for today ?
[02:48] <ogra> the classmate image is coming along nicely as well, i'm still working on an installer that makes it easy to flash the thing
[02:49] <ogra> i also managed to get the wlan card working with a new upstream CVS snapshot
[02:49] <ogra> and am waiting for some binary thing from BenC with the ralink code
[02:50] <ogra> and on a sidenote i'm just importing vagrants ltsp merges :)
[02:50] <ogra> thats it from the tech side
[02:51] <RichEd> okie artwork ...
[02:51] <RichEd> no one here from artwork at the moment I think
[02:51] <RichEd> so a quick comment from my side ...
[02:52] <RichEd> I've been speaking to ken wimer and building a relationship with him ... he will help us out with "finishing off" of ideas or submissions
[02:52] <RichEd> Will is managing a formal process through the artwork spec, to get this running smoothly.
[02:52] <RichEd> --
[02:53] <RichEd> Documentation:
[02:53] <RichEd> ogra any comments on docs from your side ?
[02:54] <ogra> well, i sent out a list of existing ltsp docs to edubuntu-users
[02:54] <RichEd> hi ace_suares
[02:54] <ace_suares> RichEd: hi!
[02:54] <ace_suares> RichEd: Just lurking.
[02:54] <ogra> and i hope some communitsy person picks them up and merges them in a single place
[02:54] <highvoltage> RichEd: sorry, this is a bit off-topic, but do you know when will is coming back?
[02:55] <RichEd> highvoltage: i have not seen him around today ... he popped in for a brief minute yesterday, pinged me, and then disappeared
[02:55] <ogra> preferably under https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP
[02:56] <RichEd> ogra: speaking of which, did you respond to chrisK about the correct link for his LTSP .PDF ?
[02:56] <ogra> RichEd, a week before you sent that mail already
[02:56] <ogra> we still need a commitment where to locate ltsp now
[02:57] <RichEd> and what was the correct link ? I don't think I was on the list
[02:57] <ogra> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/QuickInstall
[02:57] <ogra> instead of ThinClientHowto
[02:58] <RichEd> which raises a point ... how does the average person refer to this ... LTSP or thin-client ?
[02:58] <ogra> but there needs to me some marketing clarification
[02:58] <ogra> no idea, thats up to chris :)
[02:58] <RichEd> which is the most obvious, and do we need referrer pages ?
[02:58] <ogra> UbutnuLTSP is the help page ...
[02:58] <RichEd> I'd say that thin client is the way that business people will see it ... and thin client is distro agnostic
[02:59] <ogra> #and it changed several times (thats the reason why all docs are scattered everywhere)
[02:59] <ogra> so ii dont want it to change again
[02:59] <RichEd> but the old school will see it as LTSP
[02:59] <RichEd> what I'd recommend is a clear "landing page" which can group the other docs for ready refernce and easy location
[02:59] <ogra> we should let allo the "ThinClient" dosc dies and forward them to the main UbuntuLTSP page, that way both works
[03:00] <ogra> *all the thinclient docs die
[03:01] <RichEd> But according to my assertion above, I think that new users / decision makers will be thinking thin client and not LTSP
[03:01] <ogra> yes, but i'm opposing to change *anything* until we have collected all docs oin one place
[03:02] <RichEd> I think we should chat to Steve George and Chris Kenyon ... they will be promoting the concept.
[03:02] <ogra> we have lost a *lot* of documentation due to the different doc moves we have seen in the past
[03:02] <RichEd> ogra: agreed ...
[03:02] <RichEd> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP
[03:02] <RichEd> ^ that is a good home I think
[03:02] <ogra> so i'm opposing to change *anything* until its sorted properly first
[03:02] <RichEd> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/QuickInstall
[03:02] <RichEd> and that fits neatly
[03:02] <RichEd> so keep it as that structure ?
[03:03] <vagrantc> "thin client" does come with some baggage .. i.e. i got the impression part of why they didn't use it in sevilla is bad experiences in the past
[03:03] <RichEd> then we can "guide" people to that area
[03:03] <ogra> yeah, and make ThinClientHowto dissapear (integrate it properly in h.u.c) and point all ThinClient referances to it
[03:03] <ogra> if all is in one place we can move it to "UbuntuThinClient"
[03:03] <ogra> but please not before :)
[03:03] <RichEd> is it worth creating a category ThinClient and LTSP and assigning all pages into that
[03:04] <RichEd> i.e. two categories (not "ThinClient and LTSP")
[03:04] <ogra> vagrantc, well, thin client is a meta thing ...
[03:04] <ogra> ubuntu uses ltsp as thin client technology
[03:04] <vagrantc> yes, i understand this. :P
[03:04] <RichEd> in the business world, thin client means "less crap for me to install and maintain" to an overworked and underresourced sys admin
[03:05] <RichEd> so we do not want to lose that audience
[03:06] <ogra> i would like to have some neutrally named page (all of which is under UbuntuLTSP now) and then just point LTSP or ThinClient pages to autoforward you there
[03:06] <vagrantc> so, essentially we want to be able to use either depending on who we're talking to.
[03:06] <RichEd> ogra: are you happy that I add as an action for the next cycle: consolidate LTSP documentation
[03:06] <ogra> right
[03:06] <ogra> RichEd, totally
[03:06] <ogra> even though i hope we'll have it sorted before gutsy :)
[03:07] <RichEd> I mean as an action for this cycle.
[03:07] <ogra> but its an easy community task so i'd like to see someone from there to step up
[03:07] <ogra> yes, indeed, keep it in mind so we can spec it if we didnt get it done before
[03:07] <ogra> but my hope is that we'll have it ready before
[03:07] <RichEd> okay. done. we can comment on the wiki page for actions
[03:08] <ogra> especilly since its asynchronous to the release cycle
[03:08] <ogra> so there is no pressure behind it for anyone who wants to peek in
[03:08] <RichEd> the stakeholders for this are education, ogra, steve, chris, vagrant, matt zim ... so there is enough oompf to get it in a spotlight
[03:08] <ogra> indeed
[03:09] <RichEd> okay ... moving on ... I'd like to be out of here by 25 past the hour if I can
[03:10] <ogra> whats next ?
[03:10] <RichEd> let's move to planning & management, and then come back for community ... pips1_away wants to stgep in a bit later
[03:10] <RichEd> #1 Management: Education is Hiring !
[03:11] <RichEd> we need a developer with classroom experience ... as soon as possible
[03:11] <RichEd> please ask anyone you think who may be intersted to ping myself or ogra anytime for a chat
[03:11] <RichEd> pete savage is unfortunately not going to apply at the moment
[03:12] <RichEd> ogra and I will tidy up a job spec and circulate via the mailing lists
[03:12] <cliebow> hmmmmmm.
[03:12] <ogra> we'll likely need to put up a job description
[03:12] <cliebow> hmmm
[03:12] <ogra> but if you know anyone with slight debian experience and much classroom experience, point him to us
[03:13] <cliebow> does eight grade count as "much experience"?
[03:14] <RichEd> ideally we'd want someone who could visit a successful school, observe what they use and how, and how it help teaching, and then bring ideas and applications along to us for consideration
[03:15] <cliebow> godfrey...if we could come up with the equivalent of read180...plato...
[03:15] <ogra> additionally he/she should take over some edubuntu related tasks as well even though the focus will be "ubuntu and education"
[03:15] <RichEd> so let me get our positioning statement out here in the open, to qualify what Oliver said above ...
[03:16] <RichEd> and to clarify the whole Edubuntu and Ubuntu and Education viewpoint ...
[03:16] <cliebow> i have a resume in at College of the Atlantic right now...should hear something any day..keep me posted??
[03:16] <RichEd> This is what is emerging:
[03:16] <RichEd> cliebow: send a short experience description to myself or oliver
[03:16] <ogra> yeah
[03:17] <ace_suares> Riched: i might be able to help
[03:17] <RichEd> ace_suares: by suggesting somone ? or as yourself ?
[03:17] <cliebow> i will do..ill get oliver's addy..gotta run..100 kids doing nwea testing at 9:30
[03:17] <RichEd> *someone
[03:17] <ace_suares> I don't think I want to be hired :-)
[03:17] <ogra> cliebow, ogra@ubuntu.com :)
[03:17] <cliebow> gotcha
[03:18] <RichEd> cliebow: and RichEd@ubuntu.com
[03:18] <ace_suares> But I am definately interested in merging the developer world with the school world
[03:18] <ace_suares> (Can I actually tal a bit here? I am not invited to this meeting!)
[03:18] <RichEd> ace_suares: that is a *key* focus for us ... onmany levels
[03:18] <ace_suares> tal=talk)
[03:18] <RichEd> ace_suares: this is a public forum ... no invite required
[03:18] <ogra> shoot, thats why we have these meeting ... we talk ;)
[03:18] <ogra> *meetings
[03:19] <ace_suares> okay... I have one school now that is using Breezy Edubuntu for over a year
[03:19] <ogra> whee, breezy is out of business
[03:19] <ace_suares> they use it to run win98 via win4lin, and on top of that there's only ONE app they are using, it's something to do
[03:19] <ace_suares> with learning how a combustion engine works... ages 14-16
[03:19] <ogra> no security updates or asupport or anything anymore ....
[03:19] <ace_suares> ogra: i know, but it works perfectly and they are way behind a firewall.
[03:20] <ogra> *support
[03:20] <ace_suares> they also use the linux part to surf the net. So they use 'edubuntu' to surf, and win4lin/2in98 to do eucational stuff.
[03:20] <ace_suares> Right now I am working on 3 more schools: 2 of thm age 4-12 and one age 12-16
[03:21] <ace_suares> now here's the beef: they all want winxp for some stupid reason and it aint gonna work - the virtualization is much to slow
[03:21] <ace_suares> then win98/win4lin is fast enough tough
[03:21] <ace_suares> except for brwosing with flash or director (many educational games).
[03:22] <ace_suares> the thin clients are too slow to do that, we need local apps (local browsing) here
[03:22] <ace_suares> So, edubuntu+localbrowsing (and localdevices) would be a minimum.
[03:22] <ace_suares> For the educational software, there is a huge legacy of win98 software, and more and more winxp-only software
[03:22] <cliebow> ogra:i sent copies of my coa stuff
[03:23] <ogra> wont happen as a default before we have a properly automated netwoprk authentication setup from ubuntu server we can use
[03:23] <ace_suares> the winxp software, I am giving up on but the win98 software can be done with win4lin or some other virtualization tool
[03:23] <ace_suares> what's left is: the educational software that comes with edubuntu. It's far from enough to run without windows
[03:23] <ogra> but what will be in gutsy is a mode to switch off ssh encryption of the X traffic completely ... that should help you here
[03:23] <ace_suares> so, how can I help with these issues, since I have access to 4 schools that will actually using edubuntu.
[03:24] <RichEd> ace_suares: we have started a process to move a lot more applications into Edubuntu (repos)
[03:24] <ogra> ace_suares, you can help testing asd soon as the new feature arrives ...
[03:24] <RichEd> Let me give you a quick outline of the approach at the moment:
[03:24] <ogra> *as
[03:24] <ogra> ace_suares, apart from that you can indeed set that up manually in any case, thats the big advantage of ltsp5
[03:24] <RichEd> Edubuntu : is a turnkey solution for Education ... it is a one step install to get a classroom environment ... and is simple enough for a normal person to install and maintain
[03:25] <ogra> (that == network auth (which is needed for localapps))
[03:25] <RichEd> Ubuntu is being used in Education, but people who install their own applications (3rd party) and who are able to customise their standard Ubuntu base.
[03:25] <ace_suares> ogra: this is in feisty or gusty ?
[03:25] <ogra> please understand that we wont go with a half breeded solution, so it takes a bit longer
[03:26] <RichEd> The same applies also to distro's like Gaudalinex and mEDUXa etc.
[03:26] <ace_suares> RichEd: Feisty is pretty much improvement, I can see someone installing and using it without technical help.
[03:26] <ogra> ace_suares, the LAM_DIRECTX parameter will be in one of the next ltsp uploads to gutsy
[03:26] <ogra> *LDM_DIRECTX
[03:26] <RichEd> So the approach we are taking is to look at what the *more competent" users are putting together, and then bundling their choices (safely) into Edubuntu
[03:27] <ogra> it will bypass the encryption for X
[03:27] <RichEd> ace_suares: does that make sense ?
[03:27] <ace_suares> ogra: I should start testing gutsy, but there are so many time restrictions, and I need to make the stuff work for them *now* which means feisty...
[03:28] <ace_suares> RichEd: yes, I think so. But look at gcompris. on one hand, nice! on the other hand, no educational methodology at all, it doesn't fit in any
[03:28] <vagrantc> maybe backporting specific packages would allow people to try new features using feisty.
[03:28] <ace_suares> methodlolgy
[03:28] <ogra> ace_suares, i think Gadi made a proper patch that also applies to the python code of ldm in feisty, ask him for it
[03:28] <ace_suares> ogra: you think with removing the encryption, it will make stuff that much faster ?
[03:28] <RichEd> ace_suares: that is part of the issue ... it's not just about the desktop or software appliations, but methods of teaching and lesson plans etc.
[03:28] <ogra> vagrantc, backporting brings always the universe/main conflict
[03:28] <ace_suares> ogra: and it will still be sage ?
[03:29] <ace_suares> sage=safe ?
[03:29] <ogra> ace_suares, yes
[03:29] <ogra> well
[03:29] <ogra> safe, not safer than XDMCP
[03:29] <ace_suares> Rich_Ed... so what can I do ?
[03:29] <ogra> but the same speed as XDMCP ;)
[03:29] <RichEd> ace_suares: check out this as well http://www.osv.org.au/index.cgi?tid=155
[03:29] <ace_suares> ogra: funny thing is that in non-ssh implementations of LTSP, you could sniff the network and see stuff
[03:29] <RichEd> and this: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Lessons
[03:30] <vagrantc> slightly safer than XDMCP, as the password is still encrypted
[03:30] <ogra> ace_suares, right
[03:30] <ogra> its the same
[03:30] <ace_suares> ogra: on a school with a lot of teeners, this was already uses to hack the server, login to the server via ssh/putty, etc
[03:30] <ace_suares> Rich_ed: thanx for the link!
[03:30] <RichEd> those are a couple of examples of external work we are trying to bring into our offering / community
[03:30] <ogra> ace_suares, as vagrantc said, the password is encrypted, also the nhandshake happens through the ssh keys
[03:31] <ogra> but the plain X traffic is just forwarded like in ltsp4.2
[03:31] <ace_suares> ogra: okay you know I have only an eagle view of the whole process :-)
[03:31] <ace_suares> ogra: sounds good. Can I try this on Feisty (sorry for repeat questions, I am slow)
[03:31] <ace_suares> By RichEd... thx.
[03:31] <RichEd> pips1: can you chat a bit about the community site when ogra and ace_suares are done ...
[03:31] <cliebow> RichEd:fwqiw..i forwarded stuff
[03:31] <RichEd> I'll check the logs when I get back
[03:32] <RichEd> thanks cliebow
[03:32] <cliebow> gotta run to the Middle School
[03:32] <ogra> ace_suares, its as unsafe as the non ssh implementations, with the difference that no passwords are going over the net in cleartext
[03:32] <ace_suares> ogra: for ages 4-12 this will be no problem...
[03:32] <ogra> i'm done so far, thats stuff we can discuss outside the meeting
[03:32] <vagrantc> ace_suares: you could possibly patch feisty's LDM to support it.
[03:32] <ogra> vagrantc, thats what i said above :)
[03:33] <ace_suares> ogra, vagrantc: I'll wait for gutsy..
[03:33] <ogra> Gadi has a patch for feistys ldm :)
[03:33] <vagrantc> or, someone could prepare backports that work with feisty and make it easy on folsk wanting to test new features.
[03:33] <ogra> ace_suares, its only five lines or so
[03:33] <ace_suares> vagrantc: that would for me be ideal !!
[03:33] <ogra> vagrantc, feel free to make that a project ;)
[03:34] <ace_suares> ogra: okay, if it's that simple, let's do it somewhere after the meeting I don't wat to hold up you guys !
[03:34] <vagrantc> ogra: i will if i can :)
[03:34] <ogra> the prob is that many new features require apps that are in universe for older releases
[03:34] <ogra> and code changes in older releases are not allowed for backports
[03:35] <ogra> so you need to find a a way to work around that (without adding universe to the sources.list :) )
[03:35] <vagrantc> ogra: but we can make small tweaks to the backports to pull those packages in from universe, no?
[03:35] <ogra> anyway, thats beyond the meeting atm ...
[03:35] <vagrantc> guess not.
[03:35] <ogra> vagrantc, you would have to make that change to the whole gutsy branch
[03:35] <ogra> then backport that
[03:35] <ogra> thats the policy
[03:36] <vagrantc> i'll look into it
[03:37] <ogra> the split of ldm in a separate source should make it easier (for ldm at least)
[03:37] <ogra> for ltsp the problem will be bigger
[03:37] <ogra> anyway, i'm done ...
[03:39] <ogra> hmm
[03:40] <ogra> pips1, ?
[03:41] <ogra> ok, i think we can do that post meeting as well ...
[03:41] <DarkSun88> Hi all
[03:41] <ogra> so lets finish that off here
[03:42] <ogra> any other business ?
[03:42] <ogra> going once
[03:42] <ogra> going twice ....
[03:42] <ogra> adjourned
[03:42] <ogra> thanks all
[03:46] <tritium> Seveas: ping
[03:47] <pips1> ogra: pong
[03:47] <pips1> sorry, I was reading the log
[03:48] <pips1> highvoltage: ping
[03:48] <pips1> okay, let's talk about the community site
[03:49] <pips1> i've been travelling the last two weeks
[03:49] <pips1> ... but there is lots of great content that can go up on the beta site
[03:49] <pips1> I will create some news articles
[03:49] <pips1> also david trask has started to blog on the beta site too
[03:50] <pips1> I will create a wiki page which outlines what I would like the community to contribute to the site too
[03:52] <pips1> ... in short, I want to use materials (articles with pictures) from the education conference to get the interaction on the site going... hoping that people who attended the conference will start contributing.
[03:53] <pips1> the features on the site will change still, that's why it's a 'beta'
[03:54] <pips1> also, i'm aware that the look & feel of the site (default drupal theme) isn't great, so improving that will hopefully help attracting contributers too
[03:54] <highvoltage> pips1: that would be great
[03:54] <highvoltage> pips1: I think things have moved to #edubuntu though
[03:54] <pips1> what do you mean?
[03:54] <highvoltage> pips1: I'm leaving just now, have developed a bad cold this afternoon, so I'll catch you a bit later
[03:55] <highvoltage> 15:44 < ogra> adjourned
[03:55] <highvoltage> 15:45 < ogra> thanks all
[03:55] <highvoltage> 15:45  * ogra moves back to #edubuntu
[03:55] <pips1> oops I missed that :-)
[03:55] <highvoltage> it happens sometimes :)
[03:56] <pips1> highvoltage: any progress with matt nuzum about the theme for edubuntu.org ?
[03:56] <highvoltage> pips1: yep, I got the theme from him, and poked around a bit. I will upload for preview. we don't have to change much, and it's an easy theme to work with
[03:57] <pips1> good to hear that
[03:57] <highvoltage> pips1: suspending laptop now... so I'll talk to you again when I get home
[03:57] <pips1> ping me when you got around to upload it for preview! I'm looking forward to that
[03:57] <pips1> ok
[03:58] <pips1> see you!
[06:03] <shawarma> @schedule Copenhangen
[06:04] <shawarma> er..
[06:04] <shawarma> @schedule Copenhagen
[06:04] <ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Copenhagen: 30 May 22:00: Xubuntu Developers | 31 May 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 23:00: Kubuntu Developers | 05 Jun 21:00: Technical Board | 06 Jun 22:00: Edubuntu | 07 Jun 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team
[06:34] <Seveas> tritium, pong
[06:41] <DarkSun88> Hi Seveas
[06:44] <Seveas> hi
[06:44] <DarkSun88> Have you readed my message in query?
[06:44] <Seveas> no
[06:45] <Seveas> (having dinner now after work)
[06:45] <DarkSun88> Mm, ok.
[06:45] <DarkSun88> Sorry for the disurb :)
[06:45] <DarkSun88> s/disurb/disturb
[06:47] <DarkSun88> The message it's refer to ubuntu member and cloak
[06:49] <tritium> Hi Seveas.
[06:49] <tritium> I'm on the phone with yarddog now.
[06:51] <Seveas> tritium, pm
[07:48] <mr_pouit> @schedule Paris
[07:48] <ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Paris: 30 May 22:00: Xubuntu Developers | 31 May 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 23:00: Kubuntu Developers | 05 Jun 21:00: Technical Board | 06 Jun 22:00: Edubuntu | 07 Jun 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team
[08:39] <stgraber> @schedule Zurich
[08:39] <ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Zurich: 30 May 22:00: Xubuntu Developers | 31 May 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 23:00: Kubuntu Developers | 05 Jun 21:00: Technical Board | 06 Jun 22:00: Edubuntu | 07 Jun 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team
[09:08] <DarkSun88> Hi all
[09:50] <Seveas> hi DarkSun88 :)
[09:50] <DarkSun88> Seveas: Hi. :)
[09:50] <Seveas> I've poked frenode staff for the cloak
[09:51] <Seveas> --- [DarkSun88]  (n=Ma@ubuntu/member/darksun88) : Michele Angrisano
[09:51] <DarkSun88> Thanks a lot for your help :)
[09:51] <Seveas> np
[09:58] <profoX`> Seveas: speaking about cloaks :)
[09:58] <profoX`> Seveas: pretty please :)
[09:59] <j1mc> hi all
[09:59] <j1mc> any xubunteros here?
[10:00] <j1mc> hi vidd
[10:00] <Seveas> profoX`, done
[10:00] <profoX`> Seveas: you're an angel :) thank you
[10:00] <vidd> catching up on the minutes from the last meeting that i missed
[10:01] <j1mc> vidd, np.  not sure others will show up.
[10:01] <Admiral_Chicago> hey everyone
[10:01] <Admiral_Chicago> have we started yet?
[10:01] <vidd> *wave* Admiral_Chicago
[10:02] <Admiral_Chicago> hey there vidd
[10:03] <Admiral_Chicago> i don't see cody...
[10:03] <j1mc> hi Admiral_Chicago.  so far it's just you, vidd, and myself.
[10:03] <vidd> Jester45, your here right?
[10:04] <j1mc> Admiral_Chicago, i don't see him online w/ gmail chat.  haven't seen cody yet today.
[10:04] <j1mc> ... meaning, i havne't seen him online.
[10:04] <j1mc> hi crimsun
[10:04] <Admiral_Chicago> not on Jabber either
[10:05] <crimsun> ('lo)
[10:05] <vidd> Admiral_Chicago, nice meeting plug!
[10:05] <vidd> why not just use a cattle prod next time
[10:06] <vidd> =] 
[10:06] <j1mc> :)
[10:06] <Admiral_Chicago> or forward the whole channel
[10:07] <Admiral_Chicago> hehe, j1mc, we had to strong arm them
[10:07] <j1mc> great!  looks like we have a good group here.
[10:08] <j1mc> i put up an agenda at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
[10:08] <j1mc> but i'm not married to it, as usual.
[10:08] <Jester45> o yea i here
[10:09] <j1mc> if you weren't at the last meeting, please review the meeting minutes from the last meeting.
[10:09] <Admiral_Chicago> j1mc: add one more...spreading out developers meeting
[10:09] <Admiral_Chicago> you want to add to the agendaor should I?
[10:09] <j1mc> Admiral_Chicago, go ahead.
[10:09] <j1mc> you can add it.
[10:11] <j1mc> ok... shall we get started?
[10:12] <j1mc> "why, yes, j1mc . . .  why don't you get us started."
[10:12] <j1mc> ok
[10:12] <Admiral_Chicago> lets
[10:12] <vidd> question....can we include some kind of FTP program, and is there going to be SOME kind ISO burner?
[10:12] <j1mc> Admiral_Chicago and i are working on documentation, and ...
[10:12] <Jester45> lets start
[10:12] <Admiral_Chicago> i'm helping...
[10:12] <j1mc> at the last meeting we talked about different ideas for hosting the documentation.
[10:13] <Admiral_Chicago> j1mc: you want to talk about it or should I? I'll let you take the floor
[10:13] <j1mc> like yelp, or the welcome center, or firefox...
[10:13] <j1mc> is we would prefer to use a modified version of the welcome center.
[10:14] <Admiral_Chicago> currenly yelp is about 3404
[10:14] <j1mc> we just need to finalize that with the three people who have done the most work on the welcome center...
[10:14] <Admiral_Chicago> and the footprint for the welcome center is about the same
[10:14] <j1mc> none of whom are here today.  :(
[10:14] <j1mc> vidd, firefox is still an option, but it's just slow to load.
[10:15] <j1mc> and people tend to skip the docs when they can just search google.
[10:15] <Admiral_Chicago> the advantages are: speed, no gnome-depends..
[10:15] <Admiral_Chicago> any other one's j1mc ?
[10:15] <j1mc> any other what, Admiral_Chicago ?
[10:16] <sacater> hmm
[10:16] <sacater> someone directed me here
[10:16] <sacater> explain
[10:16] <Admiral_Chicago> any other advantages for having a doc center
[10:16] <Admiral_Chicago> sacater: Xubuntu developers meeting...
[10:16] <j1mc> sacater, this is a xubuntu devel meeting
[10:16] <sacater> ah
[10:16] <sacater> well I am not official developer
[10:16] <Admiral_Chicago> sacater: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings <--agenda
[10:16] <sacater> but hey I may as well take part
[10:17] <j1mc> well, the two main advantages are speed and singularity of focus.  less distractions....
[10:17] <Admiral_Chicago> sacater: join us anywaysm we always need help
[10:17] <Admiral_Chicago> also, the GUI seems to be flexible and something we may want to do
[10:17] <sacater> Admiral_Chicago: well something that xubuntu could use
[10:18] <sacater> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BulletProofX <-- if this ever gets done properly, should xubuntu use it?
[10:18] <sacater> @schedule
[10:18] <ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: Current meeting: Xubuntu Developers | 31 May 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 21:00: Kubuntu Developers | 05 Jun 19:00: Technical Board | 06 Jun 20:00: Edubuntu | 07 Jun 20:00: Ubuntu Development Team
[10:18] <crimsun> sacater: that's transparent to whatever derivative is underneath.
[10:18] <sacater> crimsun: hmm
[10:18] <crimsun> as long as the X Window System is used, it will be present if implemented.
[10:18] <sacater> okies
[10:19] <Admiral_Chicago> i'm uploading a screenshot of the welcome center, it look a lot more polished in xubuntu though...
[10:19] <Admiral_Chicago> http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/4281/welcomead8.png
[10:19] <j1mc> so... we do have support from people for the documenation center... we just need to confirm with the builders of the original welcome center that they can do it.
[10:20] <sacater> Admiral_Chicago: lots of tabs :P
[10:20] <j1mc> the three primary people involved with that project are maxamillion, somerville32, and TheSheep.
[10:20] <Admiral_Chicago> we can use the buttons as topics as we are doing Topic based help
[10:20] <Admiral_Chicago> so what do you all think?
[10:21] <Admiral_Chicago> i'm all for switching the welcome center to a doc center (if it can be done by the maintainers of the center)
[10:21] <sacater> Admiral_Chicago: i Like
[10:21] <sacater> tis good
[10:21] <Admiral_Chicago> +1 from j1mc ?
[10:21] <Admiral_Chicago> crimsun: what do you think
[10:21] <j1mc> +1  from me of course . . .
[10:22] <hyper_ch> anyone has seen that "welcome center/howto use thingy" in DSL?
[10:22] <Admiral_Chicago> hyper_ch: thoughts? and no i haven't
[10:22] <j1mc> hyper_ch: no, i haven't seen it.
[10:22] <crimsun> (loading png)
[10:23] <Jester45> its like the welcome center now but with dillo right? and its auto started
[10:23] <hyper_ch> as it is DSL it's very light (no clue what it actually is) and it has the basic modus of operation described in it... if you are looking for something lightweight maybe that can help?
[10:23] <Admiral_Chicago> Jester45: afaik, its written from scratch in python.
[10:23] <crimsun> well, having a doc center instead of a "welcome center" possibly integrates [more]  nicely with the rest of -doc
[10:23] <hyper_ch> is it dillo? no clue
[10:23] <Admiral_Chicago> not sure, you can check out the bazaar branch...
[10:24] <crimsun> which means the project can use Ubuntu's -doc bzr/svn and whatnot
[10:24] <Admiral_Chicago> j1mc: do you have the bazaar branch to check out Welcome Center's code
[10:24] <crimsun> I'm definitely in favor of not reinventing the wheel, per se
[10:25] <j1mc> i don't have it directly, but here is the launchpad page: https://launchpad.net/xubuntu-welcome-centre
[10:25] <j1mc> you can find the bzr link through there.
[10:25] <Admiral_Chicago> crimsun: with TBH, we have to do a lot of reinventing
[10:25] <j1mc> TBH?
[10:25] <Admiral_Chicago> so switching to a nice neat center would benefit i think
[10:25] <Admiral_Chicago> topic based help j1mc
[10:26] <j1mc> i think what crimsun was referring to was the application, though . . .   using the welcome center would not require us to reinvent too much
[10:26] <Admiral_Chicago> ah yes. no it wouldn't.
[10:27] <crimsun> (apparently I misunderstood the "conversion" into docbook)
[10:27] <j1mc> i think that we're thinking that the welcome center would make a good app for our docs.  because cody and the rest of the welcome center devs aren't here, i'll send a note out to the mailing list about this.
[10:27] <j1mc> they can give their feedback that way.
[10:27] <j1mc> no matter what app / approach we take, we will still use docbook xml for the actual documentation.
[10:28] <crimsun> right, that's clear now
[10:29] <j1mc> any other discussion on this matter for now?
[10:29] <j1mc> :)  ok... what else do we have to discuss?
[10:29] <vidd> sounds like a "no" to me
[10:30] <nixternal> ooh, a meeting!
[10:30] <vidd> yes...can we include an ftp program by default?
[10:30] <Admiral_Chicago> nixternal: Xubuntu only. get back to KDE...
[10:30] <nixternal> crimsun: stop typing!
[10:30] <Admiral_Chicago> or your vista machine actually...
[10:31] <Admiral_Chicago> j1mc: pick something from the last meeting
[10:31] <j1mc> ( Admiral_Chicago, nixternal and I are in the same loco...)
[10:31] <nixternal> well I noticed you were talking docs
[10:31] <nixternal> if you needed some help clarifying for the meeting, I am here for a few minutes
[10:31] <Admiral_Chicago> yea, it looks like we are converting welcome center to a doc center. no yelp, straight python
[10:32] <Admiral_Chicago> nixternal: did you see a screenshot?
[10:32] <nixternal> yup, looks like a wheel reinvented..but I haven't researched it all that much
[10:32] <j1mc> items from the last meeting were all assigned to people who aren't here today... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
[10:33] <Admiral_Chicago> j1mc nixternal: do you see a problem with getting docbook and Xml to play nice with all this
[10:33] <nixternal> Admiral_Chicago: it isn't a problem getting docbook/xml to play nice, this app should play nice with docbook/xml
[10:33] <Admiral_Chicago> very good, that was my one concern....
[10:33] <j1mc> good news . . .
[10:34] <nixternal> docbook is the dtd, xml is the markup..been in existance forever, it is up to the devs to get the app to parse it correctly
[10:34] <Admiral_Chicago> j1mc: i have something to discuss...bazaar.
[10:34] <nixternal> you shouldn't have to write the documentation for the help app at all
[10:34] <j1mc> go ahead, Admiral_Chicago
[10:35] <Admiral_Chicago> well there was much discussion about moving *buntu docs to bazaar from SVN
[10:35] <nixternal> not *much*, a little...and it isn't happening
[10:35] <nixternal> anytime soon at least
[10:35] <Admiral_Chicago> fine what nixternal said.
[10:36] <nixternal> we are going to wait for some more plugins to be implemented (re laserjock) before looking at it again
[10:36] <vidd> j1mc, i have an item as well
[10:36] <Admiral_Chicago> anywyas, I was thinking that we could move our docs to a bazaar branch in one of our names temporarily
[10:36] <Admiral_Chicago> vidd: add it to the agenda
[10:36] <nixternal> Admiral_Chicago: you do realise doing that requires you to move way more than just ~/xubuntu
[10:37] <Admiral_Chicago> that way, jim and I can branch from each other (and anyone else interested) and merge back in
[10:37] <nixternal> it requires you to move everything except for edubuntu, ubuntu, and kubuntu
[10:37] <j1mc> Admiral_Chicago: are you thinking of doing that just because we're changing the fundamental layout of xubuntu docs?
[10:38] <Admiral_Chicago> nixternal: hmm, i just want a way for jim and I to see each other's code without committing all the tiem
[10:38] <nixternal> plus seperating it from the "Documentation Project" may not be acceptable to community leaders..need to check there first (i.e. mdke)
[10:38] <Admiral_Chicago> j1mc: yep
[10:38] <nixternal> Admiral_Chicago: ahhh
[10:38] <hyper_ch> (btw, that DSL getting started thing is Dillo)
[10:38] <nixternal> ok then, create a repo, to submit your code to, but I would still work out of the svn repo so you can validate your code
[10:38] <nixternal> otherwise you are asking for validation nightmares
[10:39] <j1mc> nixternal: i think we'll have to talk to you about how it works.  we'll have to take it offline or something.
[10:40] <j1mc> hyper_ch: DSL uses the dillo web browser to display documentation?
[10:40] <Admiral_Chicago> nixternal: the goal is not to switch Xubuntu docs to bzr.
[10:40] <nixternal> meeting in a few weeks anyways, great time to do it then maybe..easier than trying to show you online possibly
[10:40] <hyper_ch> j1mc: yes
[10:40] <Admiral_Chicago> nixternal: doc team?
[10:40] <nixternal> Admiral_Chicago: I know that now, but validation nightmares will haunt you when you go to send me a patch and it won't validate, then I hunt you down on the southside and inflict damage ;)
[10:40] <nixternal> Admiral_Chicago: Ubuntu Chicago :)
[10:41] <Admiral_Chicago> nixternal: ah yes..
[10:42] <j1mc> ok....  the "hows" we'll have to figure out.  but we know what we have to do.  Admiral_Chicago I'm still not totally convinced we need a separate repo.  I still want to talk with Cody or another member of the Xubuntu docs team.
[10:43] <Admiral_Chicago> is that problem? i thought there were ways to switch between svn and bzr...well okay maybe we can hold off on that
[10:43] <j1mc> ok...
[10:43] <Admiral_Chicago> j1mc: neither am I, but I want a way for us to share work...
[10:43] <j1mc> agreed...
[10:43] <Admiral_Chicago> either way, let's hold off on it, i don't want nixternal to break my legs.
[10:43] <j1mc> heh
[10:44] <Admiral_Chicago> okay wahts up on the agenda?
[10:44] <j1mc> giving us more time between meetings...
[10:44] <j1mc> right now we have meetings scheduled every week and a half.  that's too frequent, i think.
[10:45] <crimsun> 2 or 3 weeks is more reasonable
[10:45] <j1mc> i think every three weeks would be ok...  yeah, crimsun ...
[10:45] <vidd> Admiral_Chicago, how do i add to the agenda?
[10:45] <j1mc> vidd: edit the /Xubuntu/Meetings wiki page
[10:46] <Admiral_Chicago> vidd: look near the top
[10:46] <j1mc> let's say every three weeks, and we can always add a special meeting if we need to . . .
[10:46] <j1mc> does that sound ok?
[10:47] <Admiral_Chicago> +1 for me. every 3 weeks
[10:47] <Knightlust> +1
[10:48] <j1mc> any others?
[10:48] <vidd> if we are going for less frequent meetings, can we pick a time that is more convienent?
[10:48] <vidd> but yeah...+1 here
[10:48] <j1mc> vidd . . . i think we'd move our meetings to sundays.
[10:49] <j1mc> typically we've been alternating between sunday and wednesdays, but we'd just skip the wednesday ones.
[10:49] <vidd> hmmm.....that dont work for me....but i guess i can contribute via the mailing list
[10:49] <j1mc> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event lists the dates.
[10:49] <j1mc> and times
[10:51] <j1mc> vidd: it is difficult to find times for everyone to meet . . .   :(  i sent a note out to the list at the start of the gutsy cycle, and the sunday time was ok with most people.
[10:51] <j1mc> vidd:  np.  what do you want to discuss?
[10:51] <vidd> including an FTP app and ISO burning support
[10:51] <j1mc> ok... go ahead...
[10:52] <crimsun> I presume you mean a "gui X Window System-based FTP app" :)
[10:52] <hyper_ch> vidd: xfburner does burn ISOs
[10:52] <j1mc> hyper_ch: correct . . .   vidd, what did you want to say?
[10:53] <vidd> crimsun, yes.... hyper_ch xfburn only makes frisbees on my system....i must need a tut to set it up right
[10:53] <vidd> *systems
[10:54] <hyper_ch> vidd: I mostly use k3b but have also used a few times xfburn and it worked fine with my BenQ dvd-rw drive
[10:54] <j1mc> as for the ftp program, . . .  seems like it is easy enough to add it to the system for those who need a separate ftp app.
[10:54] <j1mc> i don't think that ubuntu or kubuntu come with an ftp program out of the box.  (correct me if i'm wrong)
[10:54] <vidd> in regards to a gui ftp app...what options are there that will fit with xubuntu theme?
[10:54] <Admiral_Chicago> j1mc: kubuntu does not
[10:55] <vidd> so we cant include apps that ubuntu and kubuntu dont?
[10:55] <hyper_ch> well, moste people don't know what ftp is... so I think it is not necessary... those who konw what ftp is will be able to get one
[10:56] <j1mc> i'm just not sure if we need it to be installed by default.
[10:56] <j1mc> i agree with hyper_ch
[10:57] <Admiral_Chicago> i think an FTP app is far too specialized for to be in a base install for a desktop
[10:57] <j1mc> as for xfburn . . .  i have to admit that i don't use it.  i just burn files from the cli.
[10:57] <j1mc> i should give it a try, though...
[10:58] <j1mc> vidd: that would be more likely to be up for replacement than adding an ftp program.
[10:58] <j1mc> (in my opinion, anyway).
[10:58] <vidd> about xfburn...everytime i mention my issues in the help room...i get comments like "we know use [xyz]  instead
[10:59] <j1mc> yeah...  what do others think?
[10:59] <j1mc> do you all have problems with xfburn?
[10:59] <hyper_ch> well, I can't tell... for me Xfburn, gnomebaker and k3b have worked fine whenever I used them
[10:59] <j1mc> is it too buggy?
[10:59] <Admiral_Chicago> j1mc: give me a second to pull up a list of bugs in xfburn
[11:00] <vidd> regular data works...just iso'S DONT WORK
[11:00] <j1mc> thanks, Admiral_Chicago
[11:00] <Admiral_Chicago> Xfburn is not the package name..
[11:01] <Admiral_Chicago> let me check..
[11:02] <vidd> the executable is xfburn
[11:02] <Admiral_Chicago> this is a KNOWN issue
[11:02] <Admiral_Chicago> give me a second and i'll put up the output of bughelper
[11:03] <Admiral_Chicago> http://pastebin.ca/523640
[11:03] <hyper_ch> the package is xfburn
[11:04] <Admiral_Chicago> hyper_ch: got it...capitalization...
[11:04] <hyper_ch> :) apt-file search :)
[11:04] <Admiral_Chicago> vidd: you are correct, ISOs do not burn
[11:05] <Admiral_Chicago> Xfburn is a CD burning app...but to be fair the description is "Description: CD burning tool for Xfce A graphical tool for simple CD authoring related tasks.
[11:05] <vidd> so can we get something lite that DOES burn iso's as well as data disks?
[11:05] <j1mc> hmmm...  i don't know what other options are out there, other than gnomebaker and k3b...
[11:05] <Admiral_Chicago> i think this discussion could go in to the ML
[11:05] <j1mc> this could be something to bring up with the list... (1) i think we should see about fixing the ISO bugs.
[11:06] <Admiral_Chicago> it's a very valid issue...
[11:06] <j1mc> yeah . . .
[11:06] <Admiral_Chicago> so take it to the ML right?
[11:06] <Admiral_Chicago> any objections?
[11:07] <vidd> none here...+1 for move to ML
[11:07] <j1mc> i'm not sure what kind of development is being done on xfburn.  it looks like we used the same 0.2 build for edgy and feisty.
[11:07] <j1mc> sure, send it out to the ML
[11:08] <Admiral_Chicago> yea perhaps replace it with something under active development
[11:08] <j1mc> any other topics?
[11:08] <hyper_ch> yes
[11:08] <hyper_ch> I got a topic :)
[11:08] <j1mc> sure... go ahead.
[11:09] <hyper_ch> just before in the xubuntu channel someone was asking for a gui file search utility
[11:09] <hyper_ch> so that files can be searched and deleted accross different folders
[11:09] <Admiral_Chicago> yes. weneed one!
[11:09] <Admiral_Chicago> we need*
[11:09] <j1mc> hyper_ch: any ideas as to what app to use?
[11:10] <hyper_ch> j1mc: nope... but maybelline mentioned some plugin in thunar?
[11:10] <j1mc> also, is this something you'd be willing to handle yourself, or would you need help from the core devs?
[11:10] <hyper_ch> I don't konw any such tool... i normally use slocate-db
[11:10] <hyper_ch> <-- hasn't got a clue on how to get something like that up and running and how to integrate and stuff
[11:12] <j1mc> hmmm... ok.  /me is not a coder, either.
[11:12] <hyper_ch> I just checked the thunar page - such a plugin does not exist yet
[11:12] <j1mc> well, from the prior meetings, we're looking for 3-4 things to improve for gutsy.
[11:12] <Admiral_Chicago> perhaps discuss it with the core devs...
[11:12] <j1mc> if you can convince them to make it one of the 3-4 things, then . . .
[11:13] <hyper_ch> actually there is a way:  using the thunar special plugin creator and catfish
[11:13] <j1mc> from our last meeting, we've been looking at better wifi support, samba integration, and what to use for documentation.
[11:14] <j1mc> . . . and some games stuff.
[11:14] <hyper_ch> here's the thread: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=214059
[11:15] <Admiral_Chicago> okay i'm off for now, i'll read the archives...
[11:15] <Admiral_Chicago> good work everyone
[11:15] <j1mc> see you, Admiral_Chicago
[11:15] <hyper_ch> bye bye
[11:15] <Admiral_Chicago> bye j1mc hyper_ch
[11:15] <j1mc> hyper_ch: Kalikiana  is one of the devs.  that's a good sign.
[11:16] <hyper_ch> j1mc: why this reference to kalikiana ?
[11:17] <j1mc> hyper_ch: at the top of the forum post you linked to, it says, "Many thanks go to Kalikiana for coding it."
[11:18] <hyper_ch> didn't see that :)
[11:18] <hyper_ch> oh yeah... I remember... isn't Kalikiana coding now a browser?
[11:18] <j1mc> ok . . .   this seems like it could be implemented, but i am not a dev.  the app looks pretty good, too.
[11:19] <hyper_ch> well, catfish is the search util... maybe an integration into thunar is not needed
[11:19] <j1mc> i think it would be preferred, though (the thunar integration)
[11:19] <Riddell> j1mc, Admiral_Chicago: kubuntu includes konqueror which does ftp
[11:20] <hyper_ch> Riddell: and sftp
[11:20] <j1mc> thank you, Riddell
[11:21] <j1mc> Ok . . .   we'll send the catfish / thunar idea up.  i like it, though.
[11:21] <j1mc> any other comments on that?
[11:21] <hyper_ch> cool :)
[11:21] <j1mc> anything else to discuss?
[11:22] <vidd> j1mc, i sent the xfburn to the ML
[11:22] <j1mc> thanks, vidd
[11:22] <j1mc> ok . . .   well, it looks like we'll end things here for today.
[11:22] <j1mc> thanks for your time, everyone.  :)
[11:23] <j1mc> i'll compile the meeting minutes and such, and put them up on the meetings page, and will send out a note to the list with links to the log of our session.
[11:24] <j1mc> bye, all
[11:25] <hyper_ch> bye j1mc
[11:27] <DarkSun88> G'night.
[11:31] <Admiral_Chicago> Riddell: ah right, i meant a stand alone FTP app...
[11:32] <Riddell> Admiral_Chicago: never seen any point in that, ftp is a function that should be available to all apps along with any other network protocol
[11:37] <Jester45> is the meeting over?
[11:47] <Admiral_Chicago> yes i agree. i was just under the impression that we were talking about a stand along ftp app
[11:47] <Admiral_Chicago> actually Fx suppoerts FTP no?