[01:02] <DarkSun88> Hi all
[01:12] <AndrewB> Hello DarkSun88
[01:12] <DarkSun88> Hi AndrewB
[03:16] <juliux> @schedule
[03:16] <ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 31 May 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 21:00: Kubuntu Developers | 05 Jun 19:00: Technical Board | 06 Jun 20:00: Edubuntu | 07 Jun 20:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jun 15:00: Kernel Team
[04:49] <pitti> hello .*
[04:57] <mdz> good afternoon, folks
[04:57] <kwwii> hi mdz
[04:57] <Hobbsee> hiya mdz
[04:58] <evand> hi
[04:59] <Riddell> hi
[04:59] <fabbione> yo yo
[04:59] <pitti> hey mdz
[04:59] <BenC> still missing pkl
[04:59] <mdz> cjwatson: ping
[04:59] <cjwatson> pong
[04:59] <mathiaz> hi
[04:59] <agoliveira> Hello all
[04:59] <asac> hi
[04:59] <ogra> BenC, short pre-meeting question, whats the status of rt73 ?
[04:59] <ogra> justin mails me constantly to get info
[04:59] <shawarma> pong
[04:59] <BenC> ogra: I have it ready and working
[05:00] <ogra> BenC, can i have a copy to punch it in the sqashfs ?
[05:00] <cjwatson> bryce,dholbach,seb128: ping
[05:00] <cjwatson> doko has a medical appointment, I forgot to note that
[05:00] <BenC> ogra: yeah, I'll get it to you today
[05:00] <ogra> BenC, cool, thanks, you rock :)
[05:00] <dholbach> pong
[05:00] <dholbach> cjwatson: pong
 The only thing on my list is the possible GCC 4.1 -> GCC 4.2 transition
[05:00] <seb128> cjwatson: pong
[05:01] <kylem> cjwatson, for gutsy?
[05:02] <cjwatson> yeah, he's talked about it
[05:02] <Mithrandir> kylem: yes.
[05:02] <kylem> how... gutsy :)
[05:02] <mdz> all here now?
[05:02] <cjwatson> does somebody else know about the gcc 4.2 thing who can talk about it?
[05:03] <Mithrandir> I can talk a little bit about it, but I can't answer all of the questions about it.
[05:04] <cjwatson> I'll adjust the agenda
[05:04] <kylem> perhaps we could have a supplemental meeting when doko returns about it?
[05:04] <pitti> would indeed quite a lot of effort, now that we synced most of Debian and such
[05:04] <Mithrandir> that would be better.
[05:05] <cjwatson> pitti: sounded like we weren't talking about rebuilding everything
[05:05] <pitti> ah, ok
[05:05] <shawarma> Oh, the horror!
[05:05] <Mithrandir> pitti: gcc has stopped with those, AIUI
[05:05] <mdz> ok
[05:05] <ogra> shawarma, great opportunity to get new blood into MOTU ;)
[05:06] <shawarma> ogra: Keyword being "blood"
[05:06] <ogra> (thnk positive :) )
[05:06] <mdz> first off, we should welcome two new Canonical folks making their first appearances at a development meeting
[05:06] <shawarma> o/
[05:06] <fabbione> FIRE!
[05:06] <fabbione> BLOOD!
[05:06] <fabbione> :P
[05:06] <mdz> evand and shawarma
[05:07] <Hobbsee> mmm...blood
[05:07] <Mithrandir> welcome!
[05:07] <evand> thanks Matt.  I look forward to working with all of you.
[05:07] <Riddell> hi evand
[05:07] <fabbione> welcome guys
[05:07] <ogra> shawarma, that was about time
[05:07] <Riddell> hi shawarma
[05:07] <dholbach> welcome evand, welcome shawarma :-)
[05:07] <mathiaz> welcome onboard
[05:07] <BenC> welcome all
[05:07] <seb128> welcome
[05:07] <shawarma> ogra: :)
[05:07] <bdmurray> welcome
[05:07] <shawarma> Thanks for the warm welcome!
[05:07] <mdz> evan joins us from the wilds of the mideastern US, working on ubiquity developpment
[05:07] <evand> Thanks everyone
[05:08] <ogra> ubiquity or ubiquity and d-i ?
[05:08] <mdz> shawarma joins us from a town in the small country of Denmark whose name I can't pronounce
[05:08] <mdz> to work on Ubuntu Server
[05:08] <evand> ogra: I intend to have a hand in both
[05:08] <fabbione> ROFL
[05:08] <ogra> evadcool, i just want to know whom to poke in case :)
[05:08] <fabbione> mdz: nobody can... if that makes you feel any better :)
[05:08] <pitti> srvr?
[05:08] <mdz> pitti: ha
[05:08] <shawarma> pitti: :)
[05:08] <Keybuk> shawarma: random question;  do you prefer Soren or Sren for the spelling of your first name?
[05:08] <ogra> heh
[05:09] <shawarma> Keybuk: Soren's less like to break :)
[05:09] <Mithrandir> but Sren is the proper speling
[05:09] <fabbione> or Soeren
[05:09] <shawarma> Indeed.
[05:09] <fabbione>  = oe
[05:09] <pitti> we managed , too
[05:09] <Mithrandir> agoliveira: compose-/-o
[05:10] <Mithrandir> or compose-o-/
[05:10] <mdz> iwj: time to join the 21st century?
[05:10] <asac> iwj: sarge :)?
[05:10] <cjwatson> iwj: /set term_charset "utf-8"
[05:10] <mdz> I will be forced to nominate one of my keys to be a compose key now
[05:10] <shawarma> I've got a big certification thing fro Brainbench that says "Sxren Hansen". Since then, I've gone with Soren.
[05:10] <iwj> mdz: No, I'm always hoping to be one century behind.
[05:10] <Mithrandir> mdz: caps lock is a good one.
[05:10] <kylem> Sxren is pretty metal.
[05:10] <mdz> Mithrandir: I use that. a lot.
[05:10] <seb128> fabbione: oe = 
[05:11] <shawarma> seb128: no. ae = 
[05:11] <iwj> Have we got a real agenda ? :-)
[05:11] <shawarma> seb128: Ah, sorry.
[05:11] <mdz> we do, it's in the wiki as always
[05:11] <pitti> Mithrandir: caps lock makes an invaluable Esc key
[05:11] <mdz> and this warm welcome was part of it :-)
[05:11] <shawarma> url, please?
[05:11] <fabbione> seb128: in danish written lang is different from compose stuff
[05:11] <mdz> next up, Keybuk re: Gutsy sprint
[05:11] <Keybuk> yup
[05:11] <BenC> you mean "party at millbank"?
[05:11] <Keybuk> you should all have the mail from Claire now
[05:11] <seb128> fabbione: in french we use  :p
[05:12] <Keybuk> please ensure that you've got your travel arrangements booked as early as possible
[05:12] <Keybuk> late booking may involve paying for cost differences
[05:12] <Keybuk> also make sure you book the cheapest travel (eyas can give you a price for comparison if you're booking on your own), taking a more expensive option may also involve paying the cost difference
[05:12] <Mithrandir> as in, we should just book already?
[05:12] <Keybuk> </reminder from claire>
[05:12] <kwwii> one question: how long does it take to get to heathrow from the hotel?
[05:13] <Keybuk> we're not sure where the hotel is yet
[05:13] <mdz> kwwii: tfl.gov.uk
[05:13] <Keybuk> it may be the K&K, in which case it's about 45 mins with no tube changes
[05:13] <Keybuk> or it may be at the Rochester, in which case it's about 1h with changes
[05:13] <Keybuk> or it may be at the secret Claire hotel wants me to try
[05:13] <kwwii> right, thanks :-)
[05:13] <Keybuk> and I don't know where that is
[05:13] <Keybuk> oh
[05:13] <Keybuk> and please don't look suspicious when arriving at the building
[05:13] <mdz> Keybuk: do hotels often want you to try Claires?
[05:13] <BenC> wow, makes for hasty mornings
[05:13] <agoliveira> Brazilains are a bit afraid of the London tube ;)
[05:13] <Keybuk> there are lots of men with guns next door <g>
[05:14] <fabbione> ehheh
[05:14] <mdz> BenC: they're both closer to the office than that
[05:14] <pitti> Keybuk: gulp
[05:14] <Keybuk> (the building next door to Millbank is the headquarters of the British Secret Service)
[05:14] <mdz> I thought they were across the river
[05:14] <dholbach> haha
[05:14] <bdmurray> sweet
[05:15] <cjwatson> it's MI5, not 6, no?
[05:15] <kwwii> I remember walking there from the KK, it is not that far
[05:15] <Keybuk> right
[05:15] <Keybuk> MI-6 is the building on the river bank opposite Millbank
[05:15] <mdz> the long and the short of it is, don't delay planning your travel. book now.
[05:15] <Keybuk> MI-5 is the building next door
[05:16] <mdz> Keybuk: upriver or down?
[05:16] <shawarma> Does anything interesting happen Friday night, or should I be on my merry way home?
[05:16] <mdz> shawarma: we will go out, one way or another
[05:16] <shawarma> mdz: I'll book for Saturday, then. :)
[05:17] <Keybuk> mdz: depends on the tide <g>
[05:17] <agoliveira> Nice. I'm booking for saturday anyway.
[05:17] <BenC> if we're bowling again, let me know so I can bring my uber cool ball and shoes
[05:17] <mdz> ok, next agenda item is from Mithrandir and pitti :-)
[05:17] <mdz> gutsy release management
[05:17] <agoliveira> BenC: I aways bring both
[05:17] <Mithrandir> so, who wants to be RM? :-P
[05:17] <pitti> I was sort of voluntold
[05:17] <agoliveira> BenC... balls :P
[05:17] <cjwatson> pitti has agreed to take on a certain amount of the release management work, at least for the time being
[05:18] <cjwatson> and with help from those of us who have done it before
[05:18] <Mithrandir> of course.
[05:18] <ogra> BenC, poker cards ?
[05:18] <pitti> Mithrandir: how much of your total work time took that so far?
[05:18] <BenC> ogra: always :)
[05:18] <ogra> yay :)
[05:18] <cjwatson> he already has archive admin access, and I'm arranging for cdimage access
[05:18] <mdz> I suggested a conference call to begin the training process
[05:19] <mdz> to be continued at the sprint
[05:19] <Mithrandir> pitti: most of it.  It's not a problem to make it take up at least full-time, but I think we can make do with less, especially if we split the efforts somewhat.
[05:19] <pitti> (since I'm not exactly bored all the time ATM)
[05:20] <Mithrandir> agreed, you'd need to find somebody, or get somebody to be voluntold, to take on some of your duties.
[05:20] <shawarma> What was the URL for the agenda?
[05:21] <mdz> shawarma: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelTeamMeeting20070531
[05:21] <Mithrandir> if people are interested in release management, please do speak up since having an actual team would be good.
[05:21] <pitti> Mithrandir: so, can we have that conf call next week?
[05:21] <seb128> Mithrandir: and that somebody will need somebody else to take on some of his duties, etc... ? ;)
[05:21] <shawarma> mdz: cheers
[05:21] <cjwatson> pitti: as early as possible, perhaps tomorow
[05:21] <cjwatson> tomorrow
[05:21] <Riddell> I'm interested in release management of course
[05:21] <pitti> cjwatson: sure
[05:21] <Mithrandir> pitti: that would work fine with me.
[05:21] <mdz> Riddell: you should be on the call as well
[05:22] <Riddell> sure
[05:22] <mdz> ok, that's the end of the pre-selected agenda
[05:22] <Mithrandir> we have an upcoming tribe release next week, so that'll be a good training.
[05:22] <pitti> right; so, tomorrow then
[05:22] <mdz> is there other business for the meeting?
[05:22] <cjwatson> on which note, stuff is looking pretty good for Tribe 1, the alternate install CD is approaching workingness
[05:23] <heno> pitti: count me as part of the team for release testing
[05:23] <cjwatson> for the desktop CD, we're blocked on sysadmin taking action on livefs build script tweaks at the moment
[05:23] <BenC> FYI, the next kernel upload is expected to be Tribe 1
[05:23] <agoliveira> Can anyone tell the newcomers what is Tribe 1?
[05:23] <cjwatson> agoliveira: first milestone release of Gutsy
[05:23] <BenC> barring any unforseen "omg all your machines will die" type things
[05:23] <pitti> heno: that would be much appreciated
[05:23] <ogra> cjwatson, btw i fixed the persistent live mode for my classmate script ---
[05:23] <ogra> ...
[05:23] <agoliveira> cjwatson: Thanks
[05:24] <cjwatson> agoliveira: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/GutsyReleaseSchedule
[05:24] <pitti> BenC: will the next kernel upload be apport compatible again?
[05:24] <mdz> agoliveira: it's the bit which isn't described in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment#head-edd418c43178ce21e3d72fc6e35b1a0892175cf3
[05:24] <pitti> seb128: oh, and should we enable apport again for gutsy now?
[05:24] <mdz> yet :-)
[05:24] <seb128> pitti: no
[05:24] <BenC> pitti: Oooh, it wasn't going to be, but I can toss in the changes real quick since they are tested
[05:24] <bdmurray> pitti: not yet I think
[05:24] <seb128> pitti: wait an another week please ;) I don't want to come back from holidays with a zillion of desktop bugs :p
[05:24] <pitti> BenC: if you could check /usr/share/apport/testsuite/test-apport kernel before upload, that would be great
[05:24] <Hobbsee> mdz: sounds like an doc update needed then
[05:25] <BenC> pitti: notes, thanks
[05:25] <seb128> pitti: maybe after GNOME 2.19.3?
[05:25] <pitti> bdmurray, seb128: alright
[05:25] <mdz> Hobbsee: it's one of those things I noted should be written into it, but didn't have time to write up
[05:25] <pitti> BenC: thank you
[05:25] <pitti> seb128, bdmurray: whenever you guys say that the time is right
[05:25] <BenC> *noted
[05:26] <mdz> ok
[05:26] <mdz> anything else?
[05:26] <BenC> how many ppl on distro team now?
[05:26] <mdz> about 25
[05:26] <bdmurray> pitti: when did it get turned on for Feisty?
[05:26] <pitti> bdmurray: it was on all the time, I think
[05:27] <mdz> ok, sounds like we should wrap up the meeting
[05:27] <cjwatson> mdz: damn, I have to update my "about 20" stock answer
[05:27] <mdz> if there's anything else, please raise on the appropriate mailing list
[05:27] <pitti> bdmurray: but I'd really like to see the CrashReporting spec implemented before
[05:28] <BenC> bye everyone
[05:28] <mdz> adjourned, thanks all
[05:28] <kwwii> thanks all
[05:28] <shawarma> Wow, that was easy.
[05:28] <mdz> pitti: I think that's some time away (post-gutsy)
[05:28] <mdz> shawarma: what did you expect?
[05:28] <shawarma> mdz: Dunno :)
[05:28] <shawarma> More pain.
[05:28] <asac> thanks
[05:29] <agoliveira> Bye all
[05:29] <Mithrandir> shawarma: we can always light you on fire or roll you in tar and feathers or something?
[05:29] <pitti> mdz: hm, I hope to get it ready in a (very) few weeks; that's urgent stuff
[05:29] <mathiaz> thanks. bye all.
[05:29] <shawarma> Mithrandir: I like to keep my options open.
[05:29] <shawarma> Mithrandir: ...but no.
[05:30] <bryce> cjwatson, I'm here
[05:30] <mdz> pitti: oh, you're writing your own?
[05:30] <cjwatson> bryce: did you get the meeting reminder?
[05:31] <pitti> shawarma: they are usually much longer
[05:31] <cjwatson> bryce: if not, it might be worth subscribing to the distro team calendar so that you're pre-reminded
[05:31] <pitti> mdz: no, the updated spec is mainly about 'file bugs private by default and have the retracer remove core dumps and subscribe the right team'
[05:31] <shawarma> pitti: I thought as much.
[05:32] <pitti> mdz: that will give us a lot of what we need from without reinventing the wheel; it's not ideal, of course, but will do for the next releases until Malone grows a real crash db concept
[05:35] <bryce> cjwatson, ok yeah I should do that
[05:35] <bryce> cjwatson, sorry I was late; still sorting out when meetings are (I thought it was at 9)
[05:36] <cjwatson> the link's on the canonical wiki
[05:37] <cjwatson> bryce: see my spec question on #ubuntu-devel
[05:42] <mdz> pitti: oh, I thought crash-reporting was about having an intermediate storage for crash reports before turning them into bugs
[05:53] <pitti> mdz: indeed; we use private bugs as crash db, the duplicate detector just marks them as such, and the primary bug can be made public for 'escalation'
[05:54] <mdz> pitti: that doesn't seem to address the problem of lots of (often duplicate) bugs to search through, no?
[05:56] <pitti> mdz: if they are automatically marked as duplicate of the first bug, then searches will hide the duplicates
[05:57] <pitti> mdz: and since all bugs are private at least initially, people do not get spammed either
[05:57] <pitti> mdz: with both the standalone crash db and the Malone hack e. g. the desktop team explicitly requested not to get mails about crash bugs
[05:57] <pitti> instead, we can filter the top crashers by looking at the duplicate number
[05:57] <pitti> and generate reports from Malone
[05:58] <pitti> mdz: one major thing that this hack doesn't solve is anonymous crash reporting
[05:58] <pitti> but for the rest (reporting, privacy, workflow, dup handling, etc.) this simple thing is surprisingly capable
[05:59] <pitti> primarily because we want the crash db to have many of the traits of a bug tracker, except for the spam and privacy
[06:00] <mdz> pitti: the private bugs won't show up in searches for dupes, though
[06:00] <mdz> pitti: have you made some other improvement in dupe detection which addresses that?
[06:02] <pitti> mdz: uh, not? that would be weird
[06:02] <pitti> mdz: you mean if I have two private bugs, one being a dup of the other, Malone won't display it as 'This bug has 1 duplicate'?
[06:02] <pitti> mdz: if that is the case, there's an easy workaround
[06:03] <pitti> mdz: since my plan is to delete all attachments from duplicates anyway (just to save spaces), we can as well make the dups public, but that would be a very bad workaroud
[06:45] <nixternal> @schedule chicago
[06:45] <ubotu> Schedule for America/Chicago: Current meeting: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 16:00: Kubuntu Developers | 05 Jun 14:00: Technical Board | 06 Jun 15:00: Edubuntu | 07 Jun 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jun 10:00: Kernel Team
[09:09] <DaSkreech> Meetin?
[09:36] <zul> @schedule montreal
[09:36] <ubotu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 31 May 17:00: Kubuntu Developers | 05 Jun 15:00: Technical Board | 06 Jun 16:00: Edubuntu | 07 Jun 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jun 11:00: Kernel Team | 13 Jun 08:00: Edubuntu
[09:42] <giangy> @schedule rome
[09:42] <ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 31 May 23:00: Kubuntu Developers | 05 Jun 21:00: Technical Board | 06 Jun 22:00: Edubuntu | 07 Jun 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jun 17:00: Kernel Team | 13 Jun 14:00: Edubuntu
[10:47] <superbenny> isnt there a meeting today?
[10:48] <Lure> superbenny: Kubuntu-devel in 13 minutes
[10:49] <superbenny> rite...it was dead so i thot i missed a memo or something
[10:51] <DaSkreech> Hello Jucato
[10:51] <Jucato> O.o
[10:52] <superbenny> hey everyone
[10:52] <nixternal> oi oi
[10:54] <superbenny> hey toma
[10:54] <toma_> hello
[11:00] <manchicken> Weeeeee
[11:00] <kwwii> here we go again
[11:00] <ypsila> moin
[11:00] <dregorth> this should be interesting for my first meeting attended ;)
[11:00] <nixternal> I think I forgot to eat lunch
[11:00] <jjesse> too bad i'm on my way out for a run
[11:01] <ypsila> also ich fhl mich verarscht
[11:01] <jjesse> got way too much going on tonight
[11:01] <nixternal> jjesse: just 2 documentation items :)
[11:01] <jjesse> nixternal: i know i tried to the whole @sig thingy when i made some comments but it never works for me
[11:01] <nixternal> hehe
[11:01] <nixternal> @SIG@
[11:01] <nixternal> and @SIG@ won't show properly in preview
[11:01] <nixternal> it won't show until a submit
[11:02] <Lure> quick introductions?
[11:02] <manchicken> Where's the agenda?
[11:02] <Riddell> evening all
[11:02] <Riddell> agenda is at https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings
[11:02] <Jucato> evening/morning! :)
[11:02] <nixternal> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kubuntu/Meetings
[11:02] <dregorth> good afternoon Riddell ;)
[11:02] <Riddell> first item isn't on the agenda though, which is to discuss the kubuntu council membership
[11:03] <nixternal> Riddell: who is leaving or planning on leaving the KCC?
[11:03] <DaSkreech> Daskreech is trouble
[11:03] <toma> 125 people here, nice amount for a meeting
[11:03] <Riddell> well, the plan we discussed at UDS was to rotate half the CC
[11:03] <nixternal> hiya ogra
[11:03] <kwwii> hi ogra
[11:03] <nixternal> Riddell: cool
[11:03] <Riddell> there's six at the moment
[11:04] <Riddell> toma e-mailed that he wanted out
[11:04] <kwwii> ogra: you didn't get enough meeting today?
[11:04] <_StefanS_> evening
[11:04] <Riddell> raphink says he's busy these days
[11:04] <ryanakca> hey _StefanS_
[11:04] <kwwii> right, toma emailed the list about moving on so someone who does more can take part
[11:04] <nixternal> yes, raphink is doing the "newly married" thing
[11:04] <Lure> https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-council/+members
[11:05] <ogra> kwwii, not as bad as wednesdays for me :)
[11:05] <Riddell> and at UDS both tonio and allee said they could step down if it ment a change of hands
[11:05] <Riddell> but tonio since said he wanted to stay
[11:05] <nixternal> very respectible
[11:05] <ypsila> vive la France
[11:05] <Lure> we want Tonio_
[11:05] <Riddell> so I propose we releave toma, raphink and allee and find three new names
[11:06] <toma> ++
[11:06] <Lure> what will be rotation time - one release?
[11:06] <toma> i've seen no new candidated
[11:06] <toma> candidates
[11:06] <Riddell> Lure: a year was suggested
[11:06] <manchicken> Riddell: Could you explain a bit more about what this council does first?
[11:06] <ryanakca> hmmm. And I assume that voting will be done the same way as for the Ubuntu CC
[11:06] <superbenny> what are the requirements for being on the council?
[11:06] <jjesse> i propose nixternal as a candiate
[11:06] <Lure> ok, so next half changes in 6 months or so?
[11:07] <toma> jjesse: i would support that
[11:07] <Riddell> manchicken: the council can vote on vital kubuntu matters such as should we be purple or green in our artwork
[11:07] <kwwii> I treble that
[11:07] <Riddell> and can create kubuntu members (who are also ubuntu members)
[11:07] <manchicken> Riddell: Ooh.
[11:07] <Lure> ++ for nixternal
[11:07] <jjesse> ok heaidng out to run, i vote for nixternal
[11:08] <manchicken> Riddell: What about additional responsibility?
[11:08] <Riddell> Lure: change in 12 months (or so)
[11:08] <nixternal> whoa...I came back from the door to a flood of love..thanks
[11:08] <kwwii> I'd suggest myself if nobody minds having a lowly art-guy on the council :-)
[11:08] <mhb> +1 for nixternal, too
[11:08] <superbenny> what are the requirements?
[11:08] <nixternal> one name that definitely comes to mind for me though is imbrandon
[11:08] <Jucato> (nixternal++)++
[11:08] <Riddell> superbenny: the requirements are that you're a kubuntu member and that everyone loves and respects you
[11:08] <ryanakca> Riddell: but, since only half changes now, wouldn't the other half change in 6 months, so there's alwais overlapping?
[11:08] <nixternal> Lure would be another one
[11:09] <nixternal> ryanakca and Jucato are loved by everyone as well
[11:09] <kwwii> Lure is a great person for this
[11:09] <nixternal> to many choices
[11:09] <jjesse> imbrandon ++ for me
[11:09] <jjesse> along w/ Lure
[11:09] <Riddell> ryanakca: we'd probably decide that at the time
[11:09] <nixternal> kwwii as well
[11:09] <Jucato> haha
[11:09] <mhb> I'm for Lure as well
[11:09] <manchicken> imbrandon++ as well :)
[11:09] <ryanakca> nixternal: I'm not really active enough...
[11:09] <ryanakca> imbrandon++
[11:09] <Jucato> nixternal: I'm not knowledgeable enough :)
[11:09] <Riddell> I've not had any names e-mailed to me when I asked on the list, but we seem to have a good selection now :)
[11:10] <toma> Riddell: is there a 'kde' like person needed/wanted?
[11:10] <nixternal> Riddell: never seen a list.../me checks
[11:10] <manchicken> Let's just force imbrandon to do everything?
[11:10] <superbenny> ha nice idea
[11:10] <manchicken> I'm up for that.
[11:10] <nixternal> haha, Riddell just seen it..you meeting reminder :)
[11:10] <manchicken> Especially since he's not responding to our collective prodding.
[11:10] <Riddell> toma: if there's one who is suitably keen on kubuntu too, that would be useful I think
[11:11] <ryanakca> (like for the Ubuntu CC one a couple of weeks ago)
[11:11] <Riddell> ryanakca: I was hoping to avoid the hassle and time delay of doing polls
[11:11] <ryanakca> ok
[11:11] <ryanakca> Riddell: nevermind then :)
[11:11] <Riddell> nixternal: your name seems to have come up, would you be happy to be a council member?
[11:11] <nixternal> Riddell: sure...rather flattered actually
[11:11] <Riddell> Lure: same question
[11:11] <nixternal> haha
[11:11] <manchicken> nixternal: Now get in this box while we poke you with sticks.
[11:11] <fdoving> hi.
[11:12] <ryanakca> my votes are nixternal, imbrandon and...
[11:12] <ypsila> who of them is kubuntu?
[11:12] <ryanakca> mhb is pretty well known within the community, I think...
[11:12] <mhb> ryanakca: no way
[11:12] <kwwii> let's do this one person at a time, so we know what we are doing
[11:12] <mhb> ryanakca: I'm just known to you .o)
[11:12] <ryanakca> ok
[11:12] <Jucato> hehe :)
[11:12] <Riddell> I don't think imbrandon is about
[11:12] <Lure> Riddell: my only concern is 12 months - I am quite active now, not sure what will be 6month from now (you know personal and work obligations)
[11:13] <ypsila> ryanakca: which community pls?
[11:13] <ryanakca> ypsila: Kubuntu
[11:13] <Lure> Riddell: but I imagine I could step down and you would reelect somebody
[11:13] <nixternal> Lure: that could be a road traveled at that time possibly
[11:13] <Riddell> Lure: one of the reasons for having 6 members is that it's less of a problem if someone drops out
[11:13] <ypsila> ryanakca: which country pls?
[11:13] <nixternal> there you go
[11:13] <Riddell> given a quorum of 3
[11:14] <ryanakca> I'll be back in 15 or so minutes, supper.
[11:14] <Riddell> mhb: you're saying no?
[11:14] <mhb> Riddell: not really :o)
[11:14] <mhb> Riddell: I never thought I would come up :o)
[11:15] <yuriy> i think Lure, nixternal, and imbrandon sounds good
[11:15] <Riddell> mm, but imbrandon isn't here to defend himself
[11:15] <nixternal> Riddell: I am trying to contact him
[11:15] <Jucato> which makes it good :)
[11:15] <manchicken> I find it interesting that you use the word "defend"
[11:16] <mhb> Riddell: I think there are others in the community that deserve it more than me
[11:16] <toma> is there someone particulary active in #kubuntu ?
[11:16] <Knightlust> only one I can think of is Jucato
[11:16] <yuriy> manchicken: it's the harsh KCC interrogation
[11:16] <nixternal> imbrandon must be in tornado hell right now..I know they have bad storms, I am getting "all circuits are busy" when trying to call him
[11:16] <Lure> toma: or forums?
[11:16] <Jucato> Knightlust: hush! :/
[11:16] <toma> might be good to have someone in the coucil who is deeply in touch with the users
[11:16] <kwwii> toma: good point
[11:16] <Lure> toma: ++
[11:17] <Lure> this are all potential future contributers
[11:17] <fdoving> toma: jucato is the #kubuntu helper - http://ubuntu.lnix.net/irc/kubuntu.html :)
[11:17] <Jucato> O.o
[11:17] <nixternal> ya, nobody can touch Jucato on that one for sure!
[11:17] <manchicken> Ooh, I know and love Jucato.
[11:17] <ypsila> toma: only for germany
[11:17] <manchicken> Jucato++
[11:17] <manchicken> :)
[11:17] <toma> Jucato: available?
[11:17] <Jucato> lol! I talk *that* much?! :O
[11:17] <nixternal> haha
[11:17] <Riddell> mhb: well, I disagree, but launchpad tells me you are the newest of the suggested names
[11:18] <Riddell> kwwii: I think an artist would be perfectly welcome on the council
[11:18] <manchicken> Jucato: And you try to keep folks on topic, and polite, and helping each other.
[11:18] <fdoving> Jucato: might be false positives, i didn't tweak the script much, but yes, you rock :)
[11:18] <Jucato> heh :)
[11:18] <kwwii> Riddell: then count me in (at least to have someone to vote on who loses :p)
[11:18] <mhb> I'm for kwwii, too
[11:18] <Jucato> toma: yeah more or less I'm pretty much free.
[11:19] <mhb> kwwii: but find some more time for kubuntu! :o)
[11:19] <Riddell> kwwii: you also have excellent ties to upstream KDE
[11:19] <toma> true
[11:19] <kwwii> Riddell: yeah - I know how to bitch at them
[11:19] <Jucato> lol
[11:19] <nixternal> well I can rm -rf mailody in KDE SVN :p
[11:19] <Lure> yep some stronger kde connection would be good - so I would support kwwii too!
[11:19] <nixternal> err, from
[11:20] <toma> nixternal: why would you delete your own documentation again?
[11:20] <nixternal> hahaha, again?
[11:20] <toma> yep
[11:20] <Riddell> so for lack of imbrandon, I'd propose the three longest kubuntu memberships we have proposed which is nixternal, kwwii and Lure
[11:21] <ypsila> :_)
[11:21] <mhb> +1 for them all from me
[11:21] <nixternal> Riddell: maybe 7 would be good, that tie breaker :)
[11:21] <Jucato> +1 from me for the 3
[11:21] <nixternal> like we will ever go 50/50 on something
[11:21] <nixternal> to much love for a split
[11:22] <Lure> nixternal: we would rather have endless meeting and starve to death to get consensus ;-)
[11:22] <kwwii> nixternal: you're new here are you?
[11:22] <manchicken> That's true.  The one who dies of starvation is the tiebreaker.
[11:22] <nixternal> Lure: sounds like a great evening :)
[11:22] <ypsila> 50/50?
[11:22] <Riddell> any objections?
[11:22] <nixternal> kwwii: been here for about a year and a half
[11:22] <fdoving> nixternal: then there will be a "first person to fall a sleep looses"-contest.
[11:22] <nixternal> haha
[11:23] <Riddell> kwwii, Lure: sound ok to you two?
[11:23] <toma> no, but can we make that decision with allee, tonio, raphink and sarah?
[11:23] <DaSkreech> Jucato: ha ha I made the top 5 :)
[11:23] <toma> without...
[11:23] <Jucato> DaSkreech: lol
[11:23] <kwwii> Riddell: sounds great to me, but I won't vote on myself :-)
[11:23] <Lure> Riddell: yep I support all three (including myself) ;-)
[11:23] <Jucato> lol
[11:24] <nixternal> hehe
[11:24] <Riddell> toma: I'd think membership should be done by the whole community (i.e. whoever turns up) rather than the council voting on itself
[11:24] <DaSkreech> lol
[11:24] <kwwii> I was trying to pull the altruistic vote :-(
[11:24] <nixternal> haha
[11:24] <DaSkreech> Jucato out talks Ubotu :)
[11:24] <nixternal> rofl
[11:24] <yuriy> whole community == members?
[11:24] <Riddell> yuriy: you can have an opinion too :)
[11:25] <yuriy> ok well +1 from me for all 3
[11:25] <toma> Riddell: i consider those four important members, especially as they are current council members
[11:25] <neversfelde> hehe +1
[11:25] <ypsila> 3 is not enough
[11:25] <fdoving> who are we replacing? - toma and?
[11:25] <Riddell> toma: they are, but we have business to get on with including memberships, so I'm hoping we can agree to a new council toot sweet
[11:25] <toma> Riddell: sorry, but i'm not comfortable deciding it without all of them.
[11:26] <Riddell> ok
[11:26] <Lure> ypsila: Riddell, Tonio_ and Hobbsee stay from old council
[11:26] <ypsila> Lure: yes, but 3 ist not enough!
[11:27] <ypsila> Lure: to replace
[11:27] <Riddell> Hobbsee!
[11:27] <Lure> hi Hobbsee
[11:27] <Jucato> ypsila: that is why we are voting on 3 more. that makes 6
[11:27] <nixternal> yay Hobbsee!
[11:27] <nixternal> she woke up!
[11:27] <_StefanS_> hey Hobbsee
[11:27] <ypsila> Jucato: 6 in whole is not enough!
[11:27] <ypsila> moin Hobbsee
[11:27] <mhb> the whole community welcomes Hobbsee :o)
[11:27] <manchicken> Hobbsee: Welcome to the party.  We're just about to box up nixternal and poke him with sticks.
[11:27] <Riddell> Hobbsee: proposal is to release toma, allee and raphink from council and replace with lure, nixternal and kwwii
[11:28] <toma> did allee and raphink agree to that?
[11:28] <Riddell> they agreed to be released
[11:28] <toma> k
[11:28] <Riddell> not the other half
[11:29] <Hobbsee> hiya alll, can someone pastebin the backlog?
[11:29] <Riddell> toma: if you think we can't do that now, then we can continue the meeting with you, me and Hobbsee as quorum for membership voting etc
[11:29] <Hobbsee> sounds sane
[11:29] <Hobbsee> yes
[11:29] <marseillai_> Hobbsee: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/23503/
[11:30] <toma> Riddell: ok, if Hobbsee agrees, and allee and raphink know what is going on, I'am fine. If this comes as a surprise to them, I am against a decision now.
[11:30] <Hobbsee> Riddell: other half meaning...?
[11:30] <kwwii> meaning the new people
[11:30] <Riddell> Hobbsee: other half meaning the selection of lure, nixternal and kwwii
[11:31] <Riddell> toma: they certainly know what the plan is for this meeting, allee suggested most of it at UDS, should we continue the meeting with the new bunch or the old bunch?
[11:31] <toma> Riddell: new.
[11:32] <_StefanS_> I might be asking a complete stupid question here, but what function does the council have within kubuntu ? Could someone direct me to a page with that information please.
[11:32] <Riddell> ok, groovy, thanks and welcome to the new kubuntu council
[11:32] <Riddell> _StefanS_: creating kubuntu members (who are also ubuntu members) and voting on whatever we care to discuss regarding kubuntu
[11:32] <nixternal> thanks!
[11:32] <Lure> thanks everybody for support
[11:32] <mhb> you are welcome :o)
[11:32] <Jucato> yay!
[11:32] <nixternal> yes, thanks everyone!
[11:32] <toma> good luck guys!
[11:32] <kwwii> thanks everyone :-)
[11:32] <_StefanS_> Riddell: thanks for clearing that up :)
[11:32] <mhb> you deserve it
[11:33] <kwwii> so...let's start planning the pink and green
[11:33] <Jucato> congrats nixternal, kwwii, Lure!
[11:33] <nixternal> PING AND GREEN?? ;p
[11:33] <Knightlust> congratulations guys!
[11:33] <nixternal> s/ping/pnk
[11:33] <Riddell> thanks to the previous members for the last years contributions
[11:33] <nixternal> ahh, you knwo what I mean
[11:33] <Knightlust> wel deserved
[11:33] <Lure> _StefanS_: we may want to prepare a charter as some other councils did (MOTU comes to mind) in order to make it more clear
[11:33] <Riddell> and long may they continue contributing
[11:33] <ryanakca> frats
[11:33] <DaSkreech> for 6 months
[11:33] <nixternal> Riddell: ditto...awesome job for the previous members!
[11:33] <dregorth> congrats! :)
[11:33] <toma> Riddell: thanks.
[11:33] <DaSkreech> Grats!!
[11:33] <ryanakca> *grats
[11:33] <nixternal> toma: thanks!
[11:34] <yuriy> congrats nixternal, lure, kwwii
[11:34] <Riddell> shall we start with memberships?
[11:34] <yuriy> i also think that the CC neesd some sort of charter
[11:34] <Hobbsee_> oh dammit
[11:34] <nixternal> for the meeting log: Thank you to allee, toma, and raphink!
[11:34] <Hobbsee_> someone please pastebin the previous log of thsi
[11:34] <_StefanS_> Lure: like an organizational diagram you mean?
[11:34] <yuriy> there isn't really any sign that it exists
[11:34] <Hobbsee_> i thought i'd left my clone in #ubuntu-meeting
[11:34] <nixternal> how much did you miss Hobbsee_?
[11:34] <Lure> _StefanS_: something like this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Council
[11:34] <Riddell> who's here for membership?
[11:34] <marseillai_> Hobbsee: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/23503/
[11:35] <marseillai_> Riddell: I am
[11:35] <_StefanS_> Lure: ok I see
[11:35] <toma> Jucato: sorry you did not make it.
[11:35] <Hobbsee> nixternal: just pastebin all of it :P
[11:35] <Riddell> marseillai_: care to introduce yourself?
[11:35] <Jucato> toma: it's ok. it's not yet my time :)
[11:35] <marseillai_> ok
[11:35] <marseillai_> Hi! My name is Cyril breuil. I'm a French ingeneer student currently in trainee. I've been using Linux for three years now starting with debian SID, then I gave a try to Breezy and kept it. My first contribution was by helping new users on French Irc and forum, and I've never stopped helping users since this time. I've written a few docs in French community website wiki.
[11:35] <marseillai_> Now that I've time to contribute much deeply I've jumped in it and tried to learn as many things as possible, and to contribute on every things that seems to be important for kubuntu and that is possible to me. I've made some new packages at the beginning and I like this.
[11:36] <marseillai_> Most of the packages I've created are almost clean and I've started to solve bugs on launchpad and make bigger packages and merges. My skills are not the biggest you've ever seen but I'm motivated and I learn fast.
[11:36] <toma> Jucato: don't let it discourage you. there are simply to many candidates.
[11:36] <nixternal> Hobbsee: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/23504/
[11:36] <Riddell> marseillai_: got a wiki page?
[11:36] <marseillai_> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Marseillai
[11:36] <Jucato> toma: no problem. I also needed to learn some more technical stuff anyway :)
[11:38] <Riddell> kwwii, Lure, nixternal: quick, think up some questions for marseillai_
[11:38] <nixternal> hehe
[11:38] <manchicken> marseillai_: What is your favorite color?
[11:38] <nixternal> lol
[11:38] <toma> (else i will do it)
[11:38] <Riddell> insightful questions
[11:38] <marseillai_> pink
[11:38] <marseillai_> :p
[11:38] <manchicken> Riddell: That was insightful!
[11:38] <marseillai_> i'm right ?
[11:39] <nixternal> Riddell: his wiki page and LP look good
[11:39] <Lure> marseillai_: so your plan is to go for motu in future?
[11:39] <Hobbsee> eek
[11:39] <yuriy> pourquoi?
[11:39] <neversfelde> oh no ,please do not :D
[11:39] <Riddell> marseillai_: how have you found the documentation for creating packages and doing merges?
[11:39] <marseillai_> Lure: yes but not as a goal just as a conclusion to my work if i merit
[11:39] <kwwii> oh great, another french guy!
[11:39] <manchicken> ryanakca: Mon francais est tres mal. (Probably made at least 5 mistakes in that response alone)
[11:40] <nixternal> marseillai_: do you plan on working on just Kubuntu packaging? how about Debian packaging as well with like KDE Extras and such? makes it easier to just synch :)
[11:40] <marseillai_> Riddell: good but not enouh on CDBS
[11:40] <ryanakca> because a good portion of Kubuntu-ers are french
[11:40] <manchicken> marseillai_: Have you done any translation work?
[11:40] <marseillai_> nixternal: why not! but for the moment i want to concentrate on kubuntu and improve my skills ... let's see what happend next
[11:40] <Lure> marseillai_: do you have any specific area/packages that you have special interest?
[11:40] <marseillai_> manchicken: yes some time ago
[11:41] <marseillai_> Lure: every kde packages! :)
[11:41] <nixternal> marseillai_: excellent! I just started workin with Debian KDE team, great help from all of them
[11:41] <nixternal> love the KDE attitude :)
[11:41] <Lure> btw, this is from Tonio_
[11:41] <Lure> [Thu May 31 2007]  [14:10:04]  <Tonio_> Riddell: first is that I +1 marseillai for membership
[11:41] <marseillai_> nixternal: but i was also a debian user (irc modo on debianfr) so why not debian
[11:42] <Riddell> marseillai_: yes, cdbs can remain a bit of a mystery even once you've been around for years
[11:42] <Hobbsee> thanks for the logs
[11:42] <Lure> marseillai_: nice wiki page
[11:42] <Riddell> well, marseillai_ gets a +1 from me for helping with merges
[11:42] <marseillai_> Riddell: and there is absolutly no documentation on CDBS
[11:42] <kwwii> looks solid to me, ++
[11:42] <manchicken> That's why I'm just lazy and let you all do cdbs stuff.
[11:42] <manchicken> ++marseillai_
[11:42] <nixternal> +1 here without a doubt...plus he has helped me with some packaging questions :)
[11:43] <Riddell> Hobbsee: got a vote?
[11:43] <Hobbsee> reading
[11:43] <nixternal> hehe
[11:43] <Lure> +1 from me
[11:43] <Hobbsee> sorry, head is pretty screwed up here
[11:43] <nixternal> Riddell: give her a sec, she just woke up ;)
[11:43] <kwwii> answering package questions can be even better than packaging at times
[11:43] <Lure> nixternal: s/sec/coffee/
[11:43] <kwwii> as it enables others
[11:43] <kwwii> as does coffee
[11:43] <kwwii> :-)
[11:43] <nixternal> hehe
[11:44] <nixternal> ahh, I just noticed marseillai_ is the one who beat me to kima :)
[11:44] <marseillai_> "beat" you
[11:44] <marseillai_> ??
[11:45] <mhb> marseillai_: but please, don't use multiple question marks whenever you're asking something :o) (correct me if i am wrong)
[11:45] <ryanakca> marseillai_: hmm. maybe we should try convincing nixternal to write some CDBS docs that are KDE/Kubuntu specific :)
[11:45] <nixternal> I was going to get that packaged and then noticed it already in the archives
[11:45] <Hobbsee> plus one for me
[11:45] <marseillai_> ryanakca: sure!!!
[11:45] <Riddell> great, welcome to membership marseillai_
[11:45] <marseillai_> thanks every one
[11:45] <nixternal> woohoo! welcome marseillai_! congratulations!
[11:45] <ryanakca> congrats marseillai_
[11:45] <marseillai_> :)
[11:45] <Riddell> anyone else here for membership?
[11:45] <Lure> marseillai_: congrats!
[11:46] <ryanakca> lol
[11:46] <nixternal> +100000
[11:46] <nixternal> for Hobbsee
[11:46] <marseillai_> i'm happy and I'll continue contributing trust me. :)
[11:46] <Lure> Hobbsee: wrong meeting ;-)
[11:46] <Jucato> heheh :)
[11:46] <nixternal> hahah, ooh good on Lure
[11:46] <Hobbsee> awwww.  dammit.
[11:46] <_StefanS_> Riddell: I'm here :)
[11:46] <Hobbsee> that's right, there's 3 today.
[11:46] <Riddell> _StefanS_: for membership?  got a wiki page?
[11:47] <manchicken> Now marseillai_ has to get the Kubuntu logo tattooed on the buttock of his choosing.
[11:47] <_StefanS_> Riddell: yep, for membership, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/stefans
[11:47] <_StefanS_> Riddell: didn't get it all done yet, since I had to attend to family
[11:47] <marseillai_> manchicken: oh yes! great! can i choose a green one ? ;)
[11:47] <Jucato> marseillai_: congrats! I told you you'd make it :D
[11:47] <marseillai_> Jucato: yes thanks to all of you
[11:47] <manchicken> marseillai_: You'll have to talk to kwwii about that.
[11:47] <kwwii> marseillai_: only if it has pink highlights
[11:47] <yuriy> -1 for _StefanS_ for not putting himself on the agenda :P
[11:47] <yuriy> jk
[11:47] <Riddell> _StefanS_: able to introduce yourself in a few lines?
[11:47] <_StefanS_> yuriy: bah :P
[11:48] <_StefanS_> Riddell: yes..
[11:48] <Hobbsee> I have an agenda point with the KC and voting for !not membership, for after the members are done
[11:48] <nixternal> _StefanS_: LP page?
[11:48] <Hobbsee> _StefanS_: you should be able to ad lib
[11:48] <_StefanS_> I'm 29 years old, Danish, living in Naestved (80km from Copenhagen), married with kids :)
[11:48] <_StefanS_> have my own consulting company. Currently working fulltime as subcontractor for a larger company
[11:48] <nixternal> nevermind..I can read
[11:48] <kwwii> _StefanS_: so what exactly have you been doing for kubuntu? packaging, programming, etc.?
[11:48] <_StefanS_> I'm a Infrastructure consultant, Programmer, Have been using Linux and AIX for 7 years in the enterprise, 2 on the desktop
[11:49] <_StefanS_> The infamous logout dialog, some fixes for xdg menus before feisty was released
[11:49] <_StefanS_> Working on kdesu with background fade
[11:49] <kwwii> ahh, right - now I remember ;-)
[11:49] <nixternal> I see kde-systemsettings package in LP...59 bugs, plan on getting them all fixed anytime soon :D
[11:49] <_StefanS_> kwwii: show me the logo :D
[11:49] <kwwii> ;-)
[11:49] <mhb> _StefanS_: the "famous" logout dialog :o)
[11:50] <_StefanS_> mhb: hehe, yes... and hated by many it seems.
[11:50] <Jucato> kwwii: the logout dialog that's dying to be themeable :)
[11:50] <manchicken> StefanS has also sent me hardware which has been used for development here and some has made its way to Free Geek Chicago.
[11:50] <kwwii> Jucato: right :-)
[11:50] <Lure> _StefanS_: only by girls (they wantg konqi)
[11:50] <mhb> _StefanS_: loved by me and that's enough
[11:50] <manchicken> _StefanS_ += 1
[11:50] <neversfelde> +1
[11:51] <Hobbsee> +1 here too
[11:51] <_StefanS_> oh and I just submitted Tonio_ task on knetworkmanager and LEAP to upstream.
[11:51] <Hobbsee> ooh, three's the + key
[11:51] <Lure> _StefanS_: what are your plans for future (gutsy release cycle)?
[11:51] <kwwii> yes, having someone who works at that level is a great idea, +1 from me
[11:51] <nixternal> +2, 1 for _StefanS_  and 1 for the logout dialog ;)
[11:51] <_StefanS_> Lure: more bling :)
[11:51] <kwwii> bling is what pimps wear, btw
[11:51] <nixternal> kwwii: we are all pimps
[11:51] <_StefanS_> Lure: Well, and I will continue to help Riddell and Tonio_ fixing bugs found all around
[11:52] <nixternal> wo0t
[11:52] <_StefanS_> kwwii: (again) show me the logo :)
[11:52] <Lure> _StefanS_: that would be great - we need bug fixing attention
[11:52] <mhb> +1 for _StefanS_
[11:52] <Lure> _StefanS_: and programmers like you to code the fixes
[11:52] <manchicken> kwwii: We need something nice and slick like Ubuntu Studio's skin for that :)
[11:52] <Jucato> +2 from me since _StefanS_ made the logout very customizable/configurable :)
[11:52] <manchicken> kwwii: And to be honest, I couldn't care less about the color.
[11:52] <Riddell> _StefanS_ gets a +1 from me for great patches
[11:52] <_StefanS_> Jucato: hehe ;)
[11:53] <_StefanS_> Riddell: the next thing I will promise is real debdiffs ;)
[11:53] <fdoving> +1 for beeing danish.
[11:53] <nixternal> hehe
[11:53] <Lure> _StefanS_: gets +1 from me for fade/logout and recent work on knetworkmanager
[11:53] <_StefanS_> Riddell: really, I'm promising :D
[11:53] <_StefanS_> fdoving: you're from the nordic region yourself, right ? :)
[11:53] <marseillai_> +1 for logout dialog
[11:53] <nixternal> fade as well? oh man, definitely +1
[11:53] <Riddell> I think that's +1 from all council members, and many others aside, well done _StefanS_
[11:53] <fdoving> _StefanS_: .no, yes :)
[11:53] <Jucato> heheh
[11:53] <kwwii> _StefanS_: as they have basically doubled my work-load you might be waiting a while for the logo
[11:54] <Lure> Riddell: patches are fine, we will have Hobbsee soon in core-dev ;-)
[11:54] <ryanakca> congrats _StefanS_
[11:54] <toma> congrats
[11:54] <nixternal> _StefanS_: congrats! welcome to the kwwii's pimp club!
[11:54] <Riddell> anyone else for membership?
[11:54] <_StefanS_> thanks !
[11:54] <manchicken> heh
[11:54] <_StefanS_> :D
[11:54] <Knightlust> _StefanS_: congrats
[11:54] <mhb> congrats _StefanS_
[11:54] <Jucato> _StefanS_: you're the man! :)
[11:54] <Lure> _StefanS_: congrats and thanks for all contributions!
[11:54] <yuriy> congrats _StefanS_ , marseillai_
[11:54] <Hobbsee> Lure: maybe :)
[11:54] <fdoving> kwwii: there is apt:/ too, some fancy logo-thing would be nice, of course at the end of your todo somewhere.. among other wishlistitems :)
[11:55] <_StefanS_> thanks alot all.
[11:55] <nixternal> if there aren't any ore members, I need to head to school
[11:55] <Lure> Hobbsee: s/maybe/sure/
[11:55] <nixternal> s/ore/more
[11:55] <kwwii> fdoving: wow, never saw that until now
[11:55] <_StefanS_> kwwii: dont sweat it on the logo, I was just kidding you. I will survive without it, just have to fiddle something together myself
[11:55] <nixternal> hehe, ya thanks to Jucato for showing me that one
[11:55] <nixternal> apt:/ that is
[11:55] <Riddell> ok, if there's no more memberships just now we can go along with the agenda
[11:55] <Jucato> hehe :)
[11:55] <Jucato> yay!
[11:56] <nixternal> Riddell: I will take the 2 doc agenda items to the mailing list...is that OK?
[11:56] <fdoving> kwwii: it's like apt-cache and package.ubuntu.com in one. but it's ugly. :)
[11:56] <nixternal> I would like to get jjesse involved with it, and I need to leave
[11:56] <Lure> Riddell: will you update LP with new members?
[11:56] <kwwii> fdoving: we could at least use something similar to the adept icon for that
[11:56] <Riddell> nixternal: ok
[11:56] <Riddell> Lure: yes
[11:56] <kwwii> fdoving: I am sure I can help you with the layout and artwork on that
[11:56] <Riddell> mhb: your item (widget style)
[11:56] <mhb> okay
[11:56] <nixternal> rock on! congrats to the new members and thanks for the support! I will be back on in about an hour from school while the teacher tries to teach ASP.NET :/
[11:57] <mhb> Discuss and decide Kubuntu's widget style (Polyester) improvements for Gutsy Gibbon.
[11:57] <mhb> some screenshots here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MartinB%c3%b6hm/Meetings/KubuntuGutsyPolyester
[11:57] <kwwii> mhb: I think this is a great idea and would like to help in any way possible
[11:57] <mhb> kwwii: cool :o)
[11:57] <kwwii> we can certainly improve things
[11:57] <manchicken> nixternal: Good luck with that.
[11:58] <mhb> I think we need to discuss in what way should we improve things for gutsy
[11:58] <mhb> I guess we could make the lines and borders smoother, similar to Domino
[11:58] <Lure> mhb: and we need qt4 theme too
[11:58] <kwwii> mhb: although the improved screens you show seem to dark to me, I think that you are right on with the line change
[11:58] <Lure> we have more and more qt4 apps with default look
[11:58] <Riddell> personally I just like things simple, plastik is nice to me :)
[11:59] <yuriy> yes qt4 theme is important
[11:59] <Lure> Riddell: that is why you have option to change it ;-)
[11:59] <kwwii> Riddell: that only proves that you are a geek :p
[11:59] <mhb> Riddell: I don't think we'll make them complicated
[11:59] <mhb> Lure: the author of polyester started the port
[11:59] <mhb> Lure: to qt/kde4
[11:59] <manchicken> kwwii: Was there doubt?
[11:59] <Hobbsee> Riddell: er...why am i not an administrator of kubuntu-members?
[11:59] <Lure> mhb: any ETA for release?
[11:59] <Hobbsee> but am of the council?
[12:00] <mhb> Lure: not yet, but the code is on Launchpad and I'll try to help him so we can make it for gutsy
[12:00] <Lure> mhb: great
[12:00] <Riddell> Hobbsee: dunno, I'll try and change that after
[12:00] <Hobbsee> Riddell: okay
[12:01] <Riddell> domino looks interesting, but I agree it's too dark there
[12:01] <mhb> I'll probably talk to kwwii a bit more about this and we can then submit some mockups even Riddell would like :o)
[12:01] <_StefanS_> I would be nice to get rid of some of the lines in the current theme, just think domino is a little too much IMHO
[12:01] <fdoving> can we try to keep the previous colorconfigs and windecos etc, from the older releases, like have the feisty theme-items in gutsy, + the new gutsy look?
[12:01] <mhb> Riddell: I don't want to change the style completely, it would be better to improve polyester
[12:01] <Riddell> mhb: often with artwork the only way to get a real opinion is just to change the default and see if anyone complains
[12:02] <Hobbsee> kwwii: when do you plan starting to get a tleast some of hte artwork into gutsy?
[12:02] <kwwii> mhb and myself can work on it and then we'll shove it down your throat :p
[12:02] <kwwii> Hobbsee: as soon as sabdfl lets me work on other projects (probably sometime in the next month)
[12:03] <fdoving> domino looks like a cartoon to me. not very nice.
[12:03] <kwwii> of course, we can still work on things on the side :-)
[12:03] <Lure> kwwii: and do not forget we need new kubuntu.org ;-)
[12:03] <Jucato> btw, a suggestion about artwork, if it's possible to make the previous artworks available somewhere? packages or maybe a website?
[12:03] <Hobbsee> ok
[12:03] <Lure> kwwii: shiny one!
[12:03] <kwwii> I think ubuntu will stay somewhat the same this time around so it would be nice to improve kubuntu so that people notice
[12:03] <Riddell> kwwii: great
[12:03] <kwwii> yes, the website is a definite "must"
[12:03] <mhb> and we should grant fdoving's and Jucato's wishes
[12:03] <fdoving> Jucato: exactly my point, not replace the themes, but add new default ones.
[12:03] <Riddell> Lure: does the potential polyester port to qt 4 cover your agenda item?
[12:03] <Lure> fdoving: I also do not like Domino, but I trust kwwii to make use of it for something nice ;-)
[12:03] <Lure> Riddell: yes
[12:04] <mhb> Lure: it was an example of the smoother lines
[12:04] <mhb> and other things
[12:04] <Riddell> ok, kwwii and mhb go wild
[12:04] <kwwii> yes, qtcurve is pretty amazing
[12:04] <DaSkreech> Jucato: we could popcon them
[12:04] <Hobbsee> can we do artwork discussion on list please?
[12:04] <_StefanS_> kwwii: and he seems very active on the dev side
[12:04] <Hobbsee> there's other things on the agenda that are probably more important, and artowrk tends to take a long time
[12:04] <Jucato> DaSkreech: ah spyware :)
[12:04] <fdoving> mhb: what's the win-deco in those screenshots?
[12:05] <Riddell> Jucato: your item
[12:05] <DaSkreech> Jucato: sign up spyware :)
[12:05] <Hobbsee> actually, can i hijack first?
[12:05] <_StefanS_> kwwii: the new redesign on the preferences have really improved things
[12:05] <mhb> fdoving: crystal, vista-like buttons
[12:05] <Hobbsee> *** Hobbsee hijacks the meeting,and brings a public service announcement***
[12:05] <Jucato> ryanakca or mhb, care to take over? KMilo customization patch :)
[12:05] <Jucato> er ok :)
[12:05] <fdoving> mhb: nice. thanks, i'll replace my quartz for a few days, see if i like it :)
[12:05] <Riddell> fdoving: about keeping old art settings in, as members you have commit rights to k-d-s so you can do that yourself if nobody else does
[12:06] <ryanakca> ummm. sure
[12:06] <DaSkreech> I think what makes Domino smoother is the lack of sharp dividing lines
[12:06] <fdoving> Riddell: ok, but i don't like to step on toes :)
[12:06] <Riddell> right, enough artwork
[12:06] <Lure> Jucato: we want it!
[12:06] <mhb> let's move on
[12:06] <_StefanS_> DaSkreech: exactly, but you could propose that to the developer of qtcurve, or just provide him with patches
[12:06] <Hobbsee> *** I'd like to point out that just because you may not be on the kubuntu council doesnt mean that you cant vote on what you'd like to see, and doesnt mean that you cant bring up agenda points.  The kubuntu council *only* comes into play when there's memberships being done, and when there's no general consensus within the kubuntu community on an issue ***
[12:06] <Jucato> what was Hobbsee going to say?
[12:06] <ryanakca> The patch makes KMilo look more compact, and cleaner. It also makes it "themeable", so kwwii can theme it in the future, if he wishes
[12:07] <Hobbsee> that ^
[12:07] <Hobbsee> *** End Hobbsee hijack ***
[12:07] <Riddell> Jucato: is there anything to discuss, seems someone just needs to upload that patch
[12:07] <Lure> ryanakca: exactly, plus the default setting is already much better than old stuff
[12:07] <Hobbsee> that patch looks cool to me, please get it in :)
[12:07] <DaSkreech> kwwii: What's the policy for artwork in ubuntu ?
[12:07] <Hobbsee> someone was asking about it a copule of days ago
[12:07] <Jucato> Riddell: nope. everything's good to go :)
[12:07] <Lure> Riddell: just upload it
[12:07] <Lure> ;-)
[12:07] <ryanakca> We wanted to see if anybody liked the patch, or if we should scrap the idea
[12:07] <Riddell> DaSkreech: -> #kubuntu-devel
[12:08] <Hobbsee> DaSkreech: awtork stuff --> on list, please :
[12:08] <kwwii> DaSkreech: the policy? not sure what exactly you mean
[12:08] <ryanakca> of course, it's more of a list item, now that I think of it.
[12:08] <kwwii> erm, let's move that to the other channel
[12:08] <fdoving> i'bve been using a patched kmilo for a while now, it works and looks good :)
[12:08] <Riddell> ryanakca: I think you're up next
[12:08] <ryanakca> ok
[12:09] <Jucato> er did we skip nixternal's item?
[12:09] <Riddell> he said he was moving those to list
[12:09] <Jucato> ok
[12:09] <ryanakca> At school, I did a couple usability tests on the kubuntu machine we have, and a couple things often came up
[12:10] <DaSkreech> and Jucato's menu changes
[12:10] <ryanakca> They didn't know the difference between the "System" menu, and "System Settings"
[12:10] <Hobbsee> +1.  that's confusing
[12:10] <kwwii> ryanakca: very good point - my wife didn't get that either
[12:11] <ryanakca> They often looked for System settings stuff in the menu. Is it possible to rename "System" to "administration"?
[12:11] <mhb> I don't get that, either
[12:11] <Riddell> not all the things in System are for administration, e.g. hardware database
[12:11] <yuriy> are you talking about the system menu in the kmenu or on kicker?
[12:11] <kwwii> just change the system menu name to places
[12:11] <yuriy> both are kind of a problem
[12:11] <Hobbsee> kde menu is just getting nuts
[12:11] <ryanakca> System menu in kmenu, and System Settings in kmenu
[12:11] <Hobbsee> but then again, we're planning kickoff for this release, arent we?
[12:11] <kwwii> the menu is getting way too long
[12:12] <Jucato> we are? O.o
[12:12] <yuriy> the way we are using the system menu on kicker by default,it should be called "places" instead imo
[12:12] <Riddell> Hobbsee: no plans to have it as default
[12:12] <Lure> Hobbsee: not as default, I hope...
[12:12] <_StefanS_> Hobbsee: oh no, please dont do that kickoff thingy
[12:12] <Hobbsee> was on the spec for kde4
[12:12] <Hobbsee> i thought
[12:12] <Riddell> although if someone wants to patch it that's fine
[12:12] <Hobbsee> no package for it either, so...
[12:12] <kwwii> yuriy: I agree with you on that
[12:12] <fdoving> _StefanS_: you can switch with a rightclick, not that bad :)
[12:12] <Jucato> maybe we can offer it as a package, but there are some problems when kickoff is uninstalled
[12:12] <_StefanS_> fdoving: I know, but it sucks hard.
[12:13] <ryanakca> So, what do we do about the naming issue?
[12:13] <_StefanS_> fdoving: someone probably likes it though..
[12:13] <Lure> Jucato: kickoff is major patch to kdebase - no apckage possible
[12:13] <fdoving> _StefanS_: .. i actually agree.
[12:13] <kwwii> _StefanS_: any good reasons for that opinion?
[12:13] <_StefanS_> kwwii: it crashes alot.
[12:13] <Jucato> yuriy: is it possible to have a different name for the "System Menu" other than "Places"?
[12:13] <kwwii> ahhh, Lure said it best
[12:13] <_StefanS_> kwwii: is slow, even on very recent hardware
[12:13] <Riddell> ryanakca: I usually refer to seele on usability stuff, if you can convince her it's the way to go then I do it
[12:13] <kwwii> and that is a good point too
[12:13] <Lure> Jucato: but you can turn it on and off
[12:13] <fdoving> Lure: a kicker-providing replacement package works, no?
[12:13] <mhb> I like "Places" instead of the System Menu
[12:13] <ryanakca> ok. Another confusing item
[12:13] <Riddell> mhb: me too
[12:14] <fdoving> i'm with mhb on "Places"
[12:14] <yuriy> Jucato: like what? currently it only links to /home, /media, and remote:/
[12:14] <kwwii> I think we should agree to move the "system menu" to places
[12:14] <_StefanS_> places is good
[12:14] <Riddell> we have to consider that whenever we change a string it breaks translations
[12:14] <manchicken> I'm without opinion.
[12:14] <Jucato> btw, if we ever do change the System Menu applet we also have to change the one in the K Menu optional menus
[12:14] <kwwii> Riddell: those translations shouldn't be too hard, it is one less word after all
[12:14] <manchicken> I don't know if it's possible to completely remove this confusion.
[12:15] <Lure> I am also not sure if Places is muc better than System
[12:15] <kwwii> manchicken: having two different names would go a long way to solving it
[12:15] <yuriy> anyways i think ryanakca was talking about the kmenu not the applet
[12:15] <ryanakca> A new user most likely don't know what a "Package" is. When they see "Adept (Package Manager" in KMenu -> System, they skim right over it. From what I saw, they often got confused between "Add and Remove Programs" and "Adept"
[12:15] <Lure> would agree with Riddell to involve some usability help
[12:15] <ryanakca> I was talking about the menu
[12:15] <Riddell> ryanakca: would you be happy asking seele for a recommendation (when she gets back from berlin) and we can go with that
[12:15] <_StefanS_> ryanakca: got me confused also
[12:16] <manchicken> kwwii: I wouldn't disagree there...
[12:16] <ryanakca> Riddell: sure, for both of them I guessL
[12:16] <Riddell> ryanakca: new users also shouldn't need to care about packages, but about installing apps
[12:16] <ryanakca> Riddell: Ok
[12:16] <Jucato> Like I mentioned to ryanakca before, the System Menu optional menu in K Menu isn't enabled by default anyway.
[12:16] <kwwii> ryanakca: also a good point, I have wondered if there was a difference between those two kmenu items myself
[12:16] <yuriy> the system applet and the system menu contain completely different things and shouldn't be named the same
[12:16] <ryanakca> s/L/?
[12:17] <Jucato> yuriy: er.. "System Menu", not the "System" submenu in Kicker
[12:17] <kwwii> add and remove programs is straight up and down, adept tells me nothing
[12:17] <Lure> yuriy: +1, but I am not sure if Places is good replacement
[12:17] <Hobbsee> places doesnt fit my kicker menu
[12:17] <Jucato> yuriy: I'm referring to the System Menu optional menu
[12:17] <Riddell> can we move on?  usability is second only to artwork for discussions that can't easily be resolved
[12:17] <Hobbsee> sorry, kmenu
[12:17] <Riddell> manchicken: your item