[04:28] <Hobbsee> morning all!
[04:29] <Burgundavia> hey Hobbsee
[04:29] <Burgundavia> congrats on core-dev
[04:30] <Hobbsee> hey Burgundavia :)
[04:30] <Hobbsee> thankyou :)
[04:31] <LaserJock> hi Hobbsee 
[04:32] <Hobbsee> hi LaserJock :)
[04:58] <mneptok> Hobbsee! Sarah Hobbsee! she's the strangest gal on IRC! from the ... town of Sydney ... she's been accepted to the core-dev teeeeeeeam!
[04:58] <Hobbsee> mneptok: indeed!
[04:59] <Hobbsee> mneptok: how do you feel about the fact which i can upload stuff that you have to support, unassisted?
[04:59] <tonyyarusso> lol
[05:00] <mneptok> Hobbsee: how do you feel about the fact i hnow have access to your home phone number for people pissed at your uploads? >:)
[05:00] <mneptok> *now
[05:00] <mneptok> "Please hold as I transfer you ..."
[05:01] <mneptok> actually, that would violate the CoC in some way, so i guess i'll just keep hanging up on people.
[05:02] <tonyyarusso> Hobbsee: Or even worse, mneptok has now gotten past the step of "getting your number".
[05:02] <mneptok> but congrats, Hobbsomatic
[05:08] <LaserJock> heh
[05:08] <LaserJock> Hobbsomatic, that's funny
[05:09] <bhale> oh
[05:09] <bhale> so Hobbsee can sponsor me when my core membership expires in 6 days
[05:09] <bhale> wee
[05:10] <LaserJock> doh
[05:10] <LaserJock> bhale: you better get that fixed
[05:10] <bhale> LaserJock: meh.
[05:11] <bhale> i dont upload often
[05:13] <Hobbsee> mneptok: er, no you dont :P
[05:13] <Hobbsee> mneptok: none of you has my home phone number
[05:13] <Hobbsee> er, unless you found it on the conference call, i guess
[05:13] <Hobbsee> tonyyarusso: i try not to think on that :P
[05:14] <Hobbsee> mneptok: :)
[05:14] <Hobbsee> bhale: nah....you should get that fixed.
[05:14] <johanbr> Too bad Ubuntu doesn't have a separate set of devs that work on Ubuntu for Macs. In that case you could have called them the "Apple Core" team.
[05:14] <bhale> Hobbsee: i wanted kevin to take over beagle, but he reguarly disappears
[05:14] <bhale> Hobbsee: so it would be irresponsible to stop maintaining it, i guess
[05:15] <Hobbsee> awww
[05:17] <Hobbsee> :P
[05:21] <mneptok> Hobbsee: i do not. it was 100% in jest.
[05:22] <mneptok> Hobbsee: and you may be assured that if anyone does, abuse of that would meet with swift and irreversible vengeance.
[05:22] <LaserJock> hmmm
[05:22] <LaserJock> I wonder how much I'd have to pay to get Hobbsee's number
[05:22] <LaserJock> it would be so much fun to do 3am "How's Gnome today?" calls
[05:22] <mneptok> "GNOME"
[05:23] <mneptok> :P
[05:23] <Burgundavia> you people are disturbing :)
[05:23] <Burgundavia> and I am in pain from getting my wisdom teeth out
[05:23] <mneptok> there's always discussion of going with the name over the acronym, but nothing ever happens
[05:23] <LaserJock> wha? surely you jest?
[05:24] <bhale> Burgundavia: percoset is calling
[05:24] <Burgundavia> had some less than 3 hours ago
[05:24] <mneptok> Burgundavia: with vodka?
[05:24] <LaserJock> Burgundavia: how many did you have taken out?
[05:25] <Burgundavia> all 4
[05:25] <LaserJock> yeah, that's no fun
[05:25] <Burgundavia> mneptok: do not drink drugs with alcohol
[05:25] <Burgundavia> it is actually pretty good
[05:25] <LaserJock> I had mine 2 at a time over 2 weeks
[05:25] <Burgundavia> the pain is just low grade and very annoying
[05:25] <Burgundavia> prevents me from being able to concentrate, basiclaly
[05:26] <LaserJock> yeah
[05:26] <AndyP> wisdom teeth are just feature bloat
[05:26] <LaserJock> my dental work is always in the morning and I'm just not much good at work all day
[05:26] <LaserJock> AndyP: lol
[05:26] <Burgundavia> AndyP: they didn't use to be
[05:27] <AndyP> yeah, my orthodontist said jaws are getting smaller
[05:27] <Burgundavia> nope
[05:27] <Burgundavia> wisdom teeth exist because we would wear out our old teeth on hard food
[05:27] <Burgundavia> basically, it was your third and final set of molars
[05:27] <mneptok> the feature was made obsolete with the addition of libagriculture.so calls in v1.3
[05:28] <Burgundavia> and then you died at 30
[05:28] <AndyP> mneptok: :)
[05:28] <Burgundavia> and dentist 2.0
[05:28] <AndyP> so the moral of the story is chew more rocks
[05:28] <Burgundavia> pretty much
[05:29] <bhale> i like to eat ice
[05:29] <bhale> i cant leave a cup with ice in it
[05:30] <Burgundavia> try ice with grit in it
[05:30] <bhale> yummy?
[05:30] <mneptok> or a frozen v1.3
[05:30] <Burgundavia> that will help the weardown of your old molars, leaving room from your wisdom teeth
[05:30] <bhale> my wisdom teeth came out years ago
[05:30] <Burgundavia> of course, this is all advice given by a man in pain and hopped up on drugs...
[05:31] <Burgundavia> ok, new topic
[05:31] <mneptok> Burgundavia: that's my epitaph
[05:31] <Burgundavia> did anybody notice the total lack of press attention give to Fedora 7?
[05:32] <bhale> yes
[05:32] <evand> Obviously, it's not Ubuntu. :)
[05:32] <Burgundavia> indeed
[05:34] <LaserJock> I tried getting it downloaded today
[05:34] <LaserJock> the instrument manager at the uni needs RH/Fedora systems for the Java app we have
[05:34] <Burgundavia> ahh
[05:34] <LaserJock> seems like most of the mirrors are pretty  hammered
[05:35] <LaserJock> not as bad as Feisty by any means
[05:35] <LaserJock> but seems like people are getting it
[05:35] <Burgundavia> redhat has already had problems at release time
[05:35] <AndyP> i had a go at yum upgrading to it from an FC6 install a few days ago... not a scratch on dist-upgrading a debian box
[05:35] <Burgundavia> I think canonical just throws more resources at it
[05:36] <LaserJock> Burgundavia: I used some of my usual mirrors
[05:36] <LaserJock> UC Irvine had a sweet connection
[05:36] <LaserJock> was getting 6MB/s
[05:36] <LaserJock> but after 200MB it'd dump me
[05:43] <Hobbsee> mneptok: heh.  true that.
[05:43] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: a lot :P
[05:44] <Hobbsee> i dont actually have a problem giving out my mobile - because only i asnwer it.  but i'm sure you all dont want to speak to my parents and such, who tend to answer the home phone.
[05:44] <LaserJock> oh I don't know
[05:44] <LaserJock> "Mr. and Mrs. Hobbsee, do you know where you daughter is?"
[05:44] <LaserJock> "Well, I do"
[05:44] <Hobbsee> hehe
[05:45] <LaserJock> "She's been online all day with a bunch of nerds. And I bet she didn't even get her homework done/"
[05:45] <Hobbsee> hehe
[05:45] <Hobbsee> they've kinda figured that out
[05:45] <Hobbsee> and i do try to keep doing my homework
[05:47] <tonyyarusso> Hobbsee: I might - it could be entertaining
[05:47] <Amaranth> pfft, you're core-dev now
[05:47] <Amaranth> kiss homework goodbye, we own you
[05:48] <Amaranth> who else will upload our stuff to main? :)
[05:48] <Hobbsee> :P
[05:48] <Hobbsee> tempting, tempting...
[05:48] <Hobbsee> but i would fail uni that way
[05:48] <Hobbsee> if i dont already, due to UDS and the aftermath
[05:49] <AndyP> today's cartoon on pcweenies.org is very relevant to the homework conversation
[05:57] <Hobbsee> night welshbyte
[06:10] <StevenK> Silly LeeJunFan ${whoami} expands to nothing.
[06:12] <Hobbsee> StevenK: whoami is used in supybots, and other irc bots.  does seem a little odd there though
[06:13] <StevenK> I was interpreting 'passwd -l ${whoami}' as a shell command.
[06:15] <Hobbsee> indeed
[10:33] <pygi> good morning
[01:38] <Hobbsee> evening all
[01:41] <bhale> hi Hobbsee 
[01:43] <Hobbsee> :)
[01:44] <pygi> you do know that doesn't work, right?
[01:44] <Hobbsee> hi Spads 
[01:46] <Spads> howdy
[01:47] <pygi> people are working :P
[01:47] <pygi> unlike some :P
[01:48] <pygi> oh, ok :p
[01:50] <bhale> Hobbsee: its 7:50am here..
[01:50] <bhale> and earlier to the west
[01:52] <Hobbsee> bhale: ah, point.  we're strangely short on europeans though
[01:52] <Hobbsee> and australians, come to think of it
[01:54] <ajmitch> hello Hobbsee 
[01:54] <Hobbsee> hi non-aussie
[01:54] <ajmitch> possibly due to the weekend, and people wanting to have a semblance of a social life
[01:55] <bhale> speaking of social life, yesterday i somehow came upon a tab in firefox with "bars of kings cross"
[01:55] <bhale> i havent the slightlest clue how i came to open that
[01:55] <Spads> hmmm
[01:55] <Spads> are there any good ones?
[01:55] <bhale> I wasnt interested in bars in kings cross when i was IN kings cross
[01:56] <bhale> Spads: not in my limited experience
[01:56] <Spads> didn't think so
[01:56] <Hobbsee> bhale: assuming you mean the kings cross in au?
[01:56] <bhale> a bunch of nasty old fat guys trying to suck you into their strip club
[01:56] <Spads> Oh.
[01:56] <Hobbsee> or offer you drugs
[01:57] <bhale> I walked down that way at night with AndyFitz a few times for laughs
[01:57] <ajmitch> it's an interesting area
[01:57] <bhale> Hobbsee: perhaps an asian girl an lingerie will ask you if you want to "go upstairs"?
[01:57] <ajmitch> the hotel for UDU was right nearby, it was the quickest way to get through to the city area
[02:01] <Hobbsee> bhale: heh.  cant say that'd be tempting in the slightest - i'm straight.
[02:01] <bhale> Hobbsee: I wasnt either, considering the circumstances
[02:02] <Hobbsee> of course, had i been otherwise, i could have probably had plenty of fun with quinn...
[02:02] <Hobbsee> *twitch*
[02:02] <Fujitsu> Haha.
[02:02] <Hobbsee> oh wait.  i'm not "big and curvy enough"
[02:02] <bhale> wait a second..
[02:03] <Hobbsee> hm?
[02:03] <bhale> quinn has a beard
[02:03] <Hobbsee> not anymore
[02:03] <elkbuntu_> bhale, not last month she didnt
[02:03] <Hobbsee> quinn got rid of it for UDS.
[02:03] <bhale> elkbuntu_: oh goodness
[02:04] <elkbuntu> bhale, she lost that and gained something(s) else
[02:04] <bhale> now i dont feel bad for being confused all this time
[02:04] <ajmitch> heh
[02:06] <Hobbsee> heh
[03:53] <pygi> hey jsgotangco 
[03:55] <jsgotangco> pygi: hi! how are things?
[03:57] <Hobbsee> hi spam
[03:57] <Hobbsee> hi pygi 
[03:58] <jsgotangco> hey Hobbsee how's the night going
[03:58] <pygi> Hobbsee, ^_^
[03:58] <pygi> jsgotangco, pretty good. What about you/
[03:59] <Hobbsee> jsgotangco: good, i escaped work :)
[03:59] <jsgotangco> pygi: not bad, this week was promising, hoping for something to bear fruit next week
[04:42] <mneptok> hrm.
[04:43] <mneptok> Transmission is not a bad torrent client. a little too GUIfied for my tastes, but it will probably appeal to the Windows converts.
[04:44] <Hobbsee> hi mneptok 
[04:44] <mneptok> heya Hobbsee 
[04:44] <Hobbsee> you've gotten over your horror, then?
[04:44] <mneptok> my what now?
[04:45] <mneptok> or, rather, *which* horror? every day is a new horizon! :)
[04:45] <Hobbsee> over me being able to upload directly to what you have to support.
[04:45] <Hobbsee> lol
[04:45] <kylem> heya kurt.
[04:45] <mneptok> oh, like i said, i can just continue to hang up on people.
[04:46] <StevenK> Surely he doesn't support Gutsy, so the pain won't hit until October ...
[04:46] <mneptok> kylem: any MTL plans in the near future?
[04:46] <Seveas> StevenK, that doesn't matter. He'll still hang up (on) people
[04:46] <kylem> mneptok, heh, everywhere in the world but, unfortunately.
[04:46] <StevenK> Seveas: He
[04:47] <StevenK> Heh, even
[04:47] <Hobbsee> heh
[04:48] <mneptok> especially after checking $MAINTAINER since Hobbsee's core-dev acceptance
[04:48] <mneptok> "Oh, you're having problems with ..... *click*"
[04:48] <Hobbsee> mneptok: wont help.  see the debian maintainer field spec.
[04:48] <Seveas> "Oh, that was uploaded by some weird aussie girl. Can't support that"
[04:49] <Hobbsee> Seveas: purely evil bitchy psycopathic from au, tyvm.
[04:49] <Seveas> Hobbsee, you forgot the pokey and cuddly :)
[04:49] <Hobbsee> Seveas: purely evil sexy pyscopathic bitch from au, tyvm.
[04:49] <Hobbsee> heh
[04:49] <jsgotangco> "sexy"
[04:49] <mneptok> Hobbsee: can we expect your unfailing adherence to the letter of the CoC now? ;)
[04:49] <Seveas> mneptok, maybe the C
[04:49] <Hobbsee> mneptok: no.  i'm afraid i'm still me.
[04:50] <mneptok> I GOTTA BE ME, BABY!
[04:50] <Hobbsee> Seveas: pokey as in me poking other people, or them poking me?
[04:50] <mneptok> this. is. not. happening.
[04:50] <Seveas> both
[04:50] <Hobbsee> heh, right
[04:51] <Seveas> there are :P)
[04:51] <Hobbsee> oh?
[04:51] <Hobbsee> where?
[04:51] <Seveas> in my stash of blackmail pics
[04:51] <Hobbsee> hah
[04:51] <Hobbsee> like janew's of elkbuntu?
[04:51] <Seveas> :)
[04:51] <Hobbsee> well, wherever she's gotten that from
[04:52] <jsgotangco> Hobbsee: well...
[04:52] <Hobbsee> yes, spam?
[04:52] <Seveas> speaking of blackmail, dinda still has to send me the video
[04:53] <Hobbsee> whihc video?
[04:53] <Seveas> me and markvandenborre singing
[04:53] <jsgotangco> Hobbsee: you'll be dunked in the pool soon for sure
[04:54] <Hobbsee> jsgotangco: nooo.  anyone who does will be in a *lot* of pain afterwards
[04:54] <Hobbsee> as will popey.
[04:54] <Hobbsee> besides, i did actually go in the pool
[04:54] <Seveas> why popey? What did he do now?
[04:54] <Hobbsee> there's even a picture of it
[04:55] <Hobbsee> popey was evil
[04:55] <Seveas> he still is
[04:55] <Hobbsee> i know
[04:55] <Hobbsee> he needs large amounts of punishmnet
[04:55] <Seveas> but that's not enough to cast the Hobbsee spell on him
[04:55] <Hobbsee> with a baseball bat.
[04:55] <Hobbsee> heh
[04:56] <jsgotangco> a baseball bat covered with barbed wire
[04:56] <Hobbsee> a baseball bat with enough force can do lots of damage.
[04:56] <StevenK> How about a chained mace?
[04:56] <Hobbsee> that'd work
[04:56] <jsgotangco> why settle for lots when you can do lots and lots more
[04:56] <StevenK> Big metal spiky ball on a chain.
[04:56] <Hobbsee> jsgotangco: because killing people tends to be against the COC.
[04:57] <StevenK> (Also called a flail, for you pedants)
[04:57] <Hobbsee> StevenK: yeah, that's starting to sound reasonable.
[04:57] <StevenK> Hobbsee: I suspect airport security would have taken it off you. :-P
[04:57] <Hobbsee> StevenK: who says i needed to use it at the airport?
[04:57] <Hobbsee> any day on popey would have sufficed.
[04:58] <StevenK> You needed someone to get it to Spain.
[04:58] <StevenK> Er, some way
[04:58] <StevenK> Sigh
[04:58] <Hobbsee> i'm sure some guadalinux person could have brought it
[04:58] <StevenK> Heh
[04:58] <Seveas> s/could/would/
[04:58] <StevenK> "I'd like you to bring a flail."
[04:58] <StevenK> "
[04:58] <racarr> I'm not sure how you manage to get through airport security with your fingers
[04:59] <Seveas> hahaha
[04:59] <StevenK> I bet they get that question at least twice a day.
[04:59] <Hobbsee> hahahha
[04:59] <StevenK> racarr: Hah
[04:59] <Hobbsee> theyw ere more interested in my shoes than my fingers.
[04:59] <racarr> Yes. Those hurt too.
[05:00] <Hobbsee> i guess popey could be made an example.
[05:00] <pygi> the spinach guy?
[05:00] <racarr> My toenails are still messed up from your vicious assault
[05:00] <racarr> I'm not even kidding.
[05:00] <Hobbsee> awww, sorry about that.  you'll have to blame Seveas for that, iirc.
[05:00] <racarr> ...Yeah...he's definitely the person to blame there
[05:00] <Seveas> Hobbsee, nope
[05:00] <Hobbsee> as he had my wrists
[05:00] <Hobbsee> or was it Mithrandir then?
[05:00] <Seveas> I didn't stomp on his feet :)
[05:00] <racarr> No, I'm talking about the other time
[05:01] <Hobbsee> i only got your toes once.
[05:01] <racarr> ...no...twice
[05:01] <Seveas> maybe that was in the night you can't take responsibility for?
[05:01] <racarr> Yeah, it was
[05:01] <Seveas> :)
[05:01] <Hobbsee> Seveas: i was about to say that
[05:01] <Seveas> that night you even kissed popey
[05:01] <Hobbsee> like i say, i dont remember much of that night
[05:01] <racarr> That's awfully convenient for you
[05:01] <Hobbsee> hah.  bullshit.
[05:01] <Hobbsee> that i certainly didnt.
[05:01] <Seveas> hhe
[05:02] <elkbuntu> eh? who is talking about me?
[05:02] <racarr> You did try to kiss/bite hans
[05:03] <Hobbsee> yeah...well, he was in my face.  biting worked well.  works for fingers, too.
[05:03] <jsgotangco> lol
[05:03] <racarr> and nothing actually happened, we just sat on the couches (for a change!)
[05:03] <racarr> oh wait.
[05:03] <Hobbsee> i know i attacked you, but i cant really remember more detail than that.
[05:03] <Keybuk> cor, NM worked today
[05:03] <Hobbsee> yay!
[05:03] <Hobbsee> morning Keybuk :)
[05:04] <Keybuk> afternoon
[05:04] <racarr> Three times actually. 
[05:04] <Hobbsee> perhaps we make Keybuk carry the mace for next time.
[05:04] <Hobbsee> then elkbuntu and i can use it on popey
[05:04] <Keybuk> mace?
[05:04] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: large implemetn used for hurting people.
[05:04] <racarr> Err, just to clarify, are we talking about pepper spray mace or mace mace
[05:04] <racarr> ah
[05:04] <racarr> mace mace
[05:04] <Seveas> Keybuk, now that Hobbsee is core-dev she wants to torture people
[05:04] <elkbuntu> Seveas, and how is this different to before?
[05:05] <Keybuk> Seveas: why else do you think she was approved? :)
[05:05] <Hobbsee> haha
[05:05] <Seveas> Keybuk, can't really think of something else :)
[05:05] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: wouldnt shut up until i was?  :P
[05:05] <mjg59> You mean she wants to keep people in line?
[05:05] <racarr> No.
[05:05] <mjg59> Sounds excellent
[05:05] <racarr> Like, she wants to rip off their limbs
[05:05] <Seveas> mjg59, more like in pieces
[05:05] <Hobbsee> depends on what they do.
[05:06] <mjg59> That would be a CoC violation
[05:06] <mjg59> So I'm sure it won't be a problem
[05:06] <Hobbsee> mjg59: that's entirely dependant on symantics.
[05:06] <racarr> semantics too
[05:06] <Keybuk> mjg59: not if she did it respectfully
[05:06] <mjg59> At least, I really hope we don't have to explicitly add "Physical violence" to the list of things that aren't allowed
[05:06] <Hobbsee> and who we're talkinga about pulling apart
[05:06] <Hobbsee> racarr: yes, thankyou
[05:06] <Seveas> mjg59, there is a loophole in the CoC - we figured that one out when talking about a certain person :)
[05:06] <Hobbsee> Seveas: hahahhaha.  yep
[05:06] <Hobbsee> mjg59: then i'd get shot at UDS.  mind you, Seveas did try to break my wrist.
[05:07] <Keybuk> Seveas: you mean apart from the fact it doesn't say "I agree..." anywhere in it?
[05:07] <racarr> poor non-violent Sarah attacked
[05:07] <Hobbsee> indeed.
[05:07] <Seveas> Keybuk, heh :)
[05:07] <Hobbsee> surely i wouldnt bash anyone up?
[05:07] <Seveas> fail
[05:07] <Keybuk> zshing people up is more fun
[05:07] <Hobbsee> unless they deserved it, of course.
[05:07] <kylem> crestline is awesome.
[05:08] <Hobbsee> which popey does, hence the need for the mace.
[05:08] <racarr> I only deserved it one time :/
[05:08] <mneptok> racarr: "Rip off people's limbs and beat them with the wet end." tyvm ;)
[05:08] <Hobbsee> desrt: exactly
[05:09] <Hobbsee> desrt: so it must be pending a CC decision, which hasnt occured yet.
[05:09] <Keybuk> "'tis but a flesh wound!"
[05:09] <Hobbsee> so it must be fine.
[05:09] <mneptok> Keybuk: you a zsh user?
[05:09] <Hobbsee> exactly!
[05:09] <desrt> Hobbsee; they can't fault you on that which has not yet been decided
[05:09] <Keybuk> mneptok: yes
[05:09] <Hobbsee> desrt: exactly
[05:09] <Hobbsee> and anyone else who deserves it
[05:09] <mneptok> Keybuk: suave! we need to identify others in the company so we can start feeling superior!
[05:10] <Keybuk> mneptok: getent passwd | grep zsh
[05:10] <elkbuntu> Hobbsee, can I add people to your list? :D
[05:10] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: sure.  who were you thinking of?
[05:10] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: you could just join me
[05:10] <elkbuntu> Hobbsee, half the commenters to my blog ;)
[05:10] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: i dont think you'd like the type of beating i'd give
[05:10] <desrt> Keybuk; i've got you covered, if you like.
[05:10] <racarr> Keybuk: Basically, you spend time around her
[05:10] <Keybuk> Hobbsee: maybe I'm into S&M?
[05:10] <Seveas> elkbuntu, stab-over-ip :)
[05:10] <desrt> Keybuk; and bible studies?
[05:10] <racarr> Keybuk: And it just kind of happens after that
[05:10] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: i'd guessed as much, but presumably not into being bashed in the head.
[05:10] <mjg59> Keybuk: Dude.
[05:10] <elkbuntu> Seveas, i'm yet to hear the result of that project
[05:10] <desrt> Keybuk; not everyone's cup of tea....
[05:11] <mjg59> I think that's -offtopic fodder
[05:11] <racarr> Hobbsee: Or shoved off a balcony.
[05:11] <Seveas> mjg59, unlike the rest of this talk :)
[05:11] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: i suspect being smashed out isnt your idea of a good time.
[05:11] <mjg59> "Topicdiff: Added "Discussion of sexual preferences is not on-tpoic"
[05:11] <Hobbsee> haha
[05:11] <elkbuntu> mjg59, only if you care to join us to lart the ones that get a bit too excited
[05:12] <desrt>  /topic Dev of ubuntu (no help, no gutsy, no app dev, no fetishes)
[05:12] <Hobbsee> that way, i cant be broken.
[05:12] <jsgotangco> you'll sink in the pool though
[05:12] <mneptok> Hobbsee: we'll just pee on you until you rust
[05:12] <Hobbsee> jsgotangco: i wont be going in the pool.
[05:12] <racarr> ...
[05:13] <elkbuntu> mneptok, eeeewwwwwwww
[05:13] <racarr> that was just a strange threat
[05:13] <mneptok> racarr: it was no threat.
[05:13] <Hobbsee> racarr: mneptok's strange.
[05:13] <jsgotangco> that is really strange
[05:13] <elkbuntu> racarr, you haven't met mneptok before?
[05:13] <Seveas> racarr, mneptok is the definition of strange
[05:13] <racarr> I don't think I have?
[05:13] <Hobbsee> Seveas: i thought he was the definition of batshit insane
[05:13] <Hobbsee> although maybe that's some of the customers.
[05:13] <mjg59> Hm.
[05:13] <Seveas> mneptok, macho man :p
[05:13] <Hobbsee> mjg59: hm?
[05:13] <mjg59> Seriously, I think this should probably go elsewhere :p
[05:14] <Hobbsee> meh.  there's nothing else going on
[05:14] <elkbuntu> mjg59, as humourous as it is, i agree
[05:14] <Hobbsee> and i still need to figure out how best to injure popey :P
[05:14] <Seveas> it's caturday. Who's doing serious work?
[05:14] <mjg59> Well, I'm hung over
[05:14] <Seveas> heh
[05:14] <Hobbsee> awwww
[05:14] <mjg59> Otherwise I would be
[05:14] <Hobbsee> so you're on irc
[05:14] <Seveas> hangover + mneptok == bad idea
[05:14] <Hobbsee> so that's why you werent at the meeting yesterday...
[05:14] <Keybuk> mjg59: I'm surprised you're up!
[05:14] <mneptok> oh dear. when i've crossed the mjg "inappropriate threshhold" it *really* means i'm over the line.
[05:15] <desrt> Seveas; er.. isn't there something about "the dog that bit you"?
[05:15] <desrt> Seveas; it might work
[05:16] <ompaul> Seveas, and anything that might induce that state for mneptok might also be an issue :)
[05:17] <mneptok> don't hate me because i'm beautiful.
[05:17] <Hobbsee> desrt: why a MRI machine, btw?
[05:17] <mjg59> I woke up to find a beer next to my bed
[05:17] <mjg59> So I did the right thing
[05:17] <ompaul> mjg59, are you going to share that information with us?
[05:17] <desrt> Hobbsee; 3..7T magnetic fields
[05:17] <Hobbsee> desrt: heh, right.
[05:17] <desrt> Hobbsee; if you have a quarter in your pocket a few metres away you're gonna feel it
[05:17] <Hobbsee> mmm....beer.
[05:18] <desrt> Hobbsee; if you're dressed in metal you're gonna be somewhat worse off
[05:18] <Hobbsee> cue Hobbsee flying across the room.
[05:18] <Seveas> hmm
[05:18] <Hobbsee> besides, i doubt Keybuk ever saw me being violent.
[05:18] <Keybuk> I don't believe so
[05:18] <Hobbsee> so you shouldnt give him other ideas now.
[05:18] <ompaul> Hobbsee, hang on to the pointy stick of doom as you fly across the room ;-)
[05:18] <Hobbsee> heh
[05:19] <Hobbsee> maybe that should go on my todo list.
[05:19] <ompaul> Hobbsee, you swam to spain?
[05:19] <Keybuk> I find that feeling wears off about 1/3 the way on a LHR/SYD hop
[05:19] <Hobbsee> ompaul: i meant without a plane
[05:19] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: haha, yeah.
[05:19] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: that far in, hey?
[05:19] <desrt> Keybuk; if you're flying *from* LHR, the feeling wears off standing in the various lines
[05:20] <Keybuk> Hobbsee: flying without a plane
[05:20] <Keybuk> I believe that's technically known as "falling"
[05:20] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: in which direction, though?
[05:20] <Keybuk> downwards
[05:20] <mneptok> or "time for rehab"
[05:20] <Hobbsee> awww
[05:21] <elkbuntu> Hobbsee, or without unionised pigeons
[05:21] <Hobbsee> who's doing the rehab session?
[05:21] <Hobbsee> heh
[05:21] <Hobbsee> mmm...pidgeons
[05:22] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: you do realise that if we hadnt been delayed out of singapore, we would have been delayed due to fog in sydney, most likely?
[05:22] <Seveas> Hobbsee, flying's not that hard. You let yourself go and be distracted just in time so you miss the ground 
[05:22] <Keybuk> Hobbsee: that usually involves a Cessna
[05:22] <Hobbsee> heh
[05:23] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: hmm?
[05:23] <elkbuntu> Hobbsee, still, it's worth demonising the pigeons
[05:23] <Hobbsee> hehe
[05:23] <Hobbsee> then there could have been mroe plane flights!  woo!
[05:23] <Hobbsee> twitch.  shudder.
[05:23] <elkbuntu> Hobbsee, then we could have topped ajmitch's record!
[05:23] <Hobbsee> indeed!
[05:23] <Hobbsee> you could have, anyway
[05:23] <elkbuntu> instead of equalled
[05:23] <elkbuntu> yeah, i could have
[05:23] <Hobbsee> heh
[05:24] <racarr> Because you keep on bringing it up.
[05:24] <desrt> Hobbsee; don't take it personally.  i got it at UDS too :(
[05:24] <Hobbsee> racarr: i didnt originally though
[05:25] <racarr> "Why do you always want to throw me in the pool!" "Oh yeah, we forgot about it, go for it!"
[05:25] <desrt> never trust the french :(
[05:25] <racarr> Well
[05:25] <Hobbsee> desrt: heh.  or the dutch.
[05:25] <racarr> yeah, but that's Seveas
[05:25] <Hobbsee> especially the mad dutchmen.
[05:25] <desrt> :)
[05:25] <racarr> and even he got over it
[05:25] <Seveas> indeed
[05:25] <racarr> Plus, I think I was the only one that came close to being thrown in the pool
[05:25] <Hobbsee> eventually.  maybe.  before he got bashed with a large metal object, anyway
[05:26] <Hobbsee> gah.  third time lucky.
[05:26] <elkbuntu> SPAMMER!
[05:26] <Hobbsee> guilty as charged.  what will you do?
[05:26] <mc44> Hobbsee: protest too much?
[05:26] <Hobbsee> actually, dont do that.
[05:26] <elkbuntu> Hobbsee, tickle you mercilessly next time you're within reach
[05:26] <racarr> mc44: Expect her to deny it three times
[05:27] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: oh dear.
[05:27] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: but we had an agreement!
[05:27] <Hobbsee> so we'd survive on the plane...
[05:27] <elkbuntu> Hobbsee, who said it would be on a plane
[05:27] <Hobbsee> "oh dear, the two aussie chicks on the plane to UDS died due to excessive tickling and poking"
[05:27] <Hobbsee> what other reason would you have to be in sydney?
[05:28] <Seveas> AUSTRALIANS ON A PLANE!
[05:28] <Hobbsee> OH NOES!!!
[05:28] <Keybuk> you can always tell the Australians at Heathrow
[05:28] <Keybuk> they start giggling when the tube train arrives to take them to the city
[05:28] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: well, we did go down to BA by accident.  so we almost went to heathrow :P
[05:28] <Hobbsee> we dont have tube trains here.
[05:28] <elkbuntu> yeah, stupid frankfurt
[05:28] <Hobbsee> unfortunately
[05:28] <Hobbsee> hehe
[05:29] <Hobbsee> NO MY SHOES DO NOT CONTAIN EXPLOSIVES.  kthxbye.
[05:29] <Seveas> *boom*
[05:29] <elkbuntu> at least we got to part ways with the screaming toddler
[05:29] <Hobbsee> haha
[05:29] <Hobbsee> yes
[05:29] <Hobbsee> Seveas: yeah, well.  elkbuntu didnt explode due to lack of smoke
[05:29] <Seveas> "MY SHOS DON'T CONTAIN EXPLOSIVES, BUT IF YOU DON'T STOP BEING ANNOYING *I* WILL EXPLODE"
[05:29] <Hobbsee> haha
[05:29] <racarr> elkbuntu: I'm hurt that you would say that.
[05:30] <elkbuntu> racarr, no, you're the baby :
[05:30] <Hobbsee> racarr: because you're jealous of the screaming todler?
[05:30] <Hobbsee> and wanted to be the screaming todler at UDS, being the youngest?  :P
[05:30] <racarr> ...err. No? The joke was
[05:30] <racarr> eh
[05:31] <racarr> nevermind
[05:31] <elkbuntu> racarr, first day onestone was there "whelp.. better go wake the baby"
[05:31] <racarr> elkbuntu: ...
[05:31] <elkbuntu> i cant remember who else heard that, probably tonio
[05:31] <Hobbsee> why didnt you tell me this?
[05:31] <Hobbsee> i could have teased him with it all week!  :P
[05:31] <elkbuntu> racarr, if it makes you feel better, i think it was s/the/my/
[05:31] <Hobbsee> as well as being a crazy american tourist.
[05:32] <racarr> elkbuntu: Err...
[05:33] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: i think you traumatised him now.
[05:33] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: what were you saying about "think of the children"?
[05:33] <elkbuntu> Hobbsee, ;)
[05:33] <ompaul> racarr, s/tourist/hacker/g - she don't know the diff :-)   
[05:33] <ompaul>  /me runs
[05:34] <racarr> If she used emacs it has a mode for comparing tourist hacker diffs.
[05:34] <racarr> See what you are missing out on Hobbsee?
[05:35] <ompaul> racarr, :-)
[05:35] <Hobbsee> racarr: haha
[05:39] <Keybuk> oh, wow
[05:39] <Keybuk> the GNOME Typing Break thing supports compiz/beryl
[05:39] <Keybuk> and dims the background without evil pixmap copying
[05:39] <Keybuk> that is so awesome
[05:40] <wasabi> if only the logout button and upgrade manager did that
[05:40] <Hobbsee> nice!
[05:40] <Hobbsee> does it do kde?
[05:40] <Hobbsee> :P
[05:40] <Keybuk> wasabi: *looks pointedly at racarr* I'm sure they can <g>
[05:41] <wasabi> yay latest kernel breaks vmware... again
[05:41] <Keybuk> wasabi: ?
[05:41] <racarr> It's just a matter of checking for a composite manager selection and setting an XProp, so yeah easy
[05:41] <racarr> it would be nice for the screensaver too so there is not that flicker
[05:42] <wasabi> I'd like to see the screen saver actually take advantage of it in some cool way.
[05:42] <wasabi> FOr instance, draw the screen saver BEFORE blacking the background, gradually.
[05:42] <wasabi> So fish start swimming across as the background darkens.
[05:42] <Keybuk> I use the glslideshow screensaver
[05:42] <Keybuk> I thought it'd be really cool if the first thing it did was pan the desktop about, then fade into a picture
[05:42] <Keybuk> :p
[05:42] <wasabi> heh yeah
[05:42] <racarr> *shrug* If the screensaver didn't black the background when there was a composite manager
[05:42] <racarr> then the composite manager could fade it in like everything else
[05:42] <wasabi> I'd like to see Nautilus do it for desktop background too.
[05:43] <wasabi> OS X has this thing where you can run screensavers as desktop backgrounds: slide show being one.
[05:43] <Keybuk> I guess compiz gets rid of the need to do cheesy gamma slides too
[05:43] <wasabi> And it will do the fading transitions on the background, with the icons staying put
[05:44] <Keybuk> ooh, Recent Documents got fixed too
[05:44] <racarr> You could do that with xwinwrap if you were using Xgl
[05:45] <racarr> With the background, I would kind of like to see the composite manager draw the background, and the desktop manager draw the icons on to a transparent window.
[05:46] <Keybuk> yeah
[05:46] <wasabi> yeah totally
[05:46] <racarr> Because if you want different wallpapers per viewport, then you need to have one desktop window for each viewport (it's not practical to create a window that spans them all obviously), and if you had say 3*3 viewports, and half of them were using the same wallpaper
[05:46] <Keybuk> nautilus has this weird window it draws across the root, doesn't it
[05:46] <wasabi> Yeah, i've always wondered why it does that... can't it just draw to the root?
[05:46] <Keybuk> wasabi: iirc, it's so it can draw the icons on top of it
[05:47] <wasabi> Can it not somehow take control of the root? :)
[05:47] <Keybuk> oddly enough, this makes it easier to fix
[05:47] <Keybuk> since we wouldn't want it drawing to the root anyway
[05:47] <wasabi> Oh, that's true... it can draw a transparent root
[05:47] <racarr> that's a complete waste of RAM, because the desktop manager will have to create multiple windows for each with the same wallpaper, but the composite manager can just have one texture and draw it on a quad :P
[05:47] <Keybuk> it just needs to leave the window transparent and let the composite manager do the merging
[05:47] <Keybuk> and then leave the background to the manager
[05:47] <racarr> it would be really easy to patch actually I don't know if GNOME would want it...
[05:47] <Keybuk> this would likely be a trivial patch
[05:47] <Keybuk> *shrug*
[05:47] <Keybuk> Ubuntu would like it <g>
[05:48] <Keybuk> different desktop backgrounds per screen seems like a bling feature to me
[05:48] <wasabi> This would let you run xscreensaver -root too
[05:48] <Keybuk> you could have 4 in a row, with a panorama
[05:48] <wasabi> Which would solve the entire thing
[05:48] <elkbuntu> Keybuk, it's a common question, for sure
[05:48] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: and if shoved hard enough, GNOME might like it too?  :P
[05:48] <wasabi> I don't see why Gnome wouldn't want it
[05:49] <elkbuntu> wasabi, *cough*linus*cough*
[05:49] <Keybuk> Linus doesn't use GNOME
[05:49] <wasabi> yeah heh
[05:49] <wasabi> metacity has composite support no
[05:49] <elkbuntu> Keybuk, but he submitted patches to it, and they rejected them
[05:49] <Keybuk> patches to do what?
[05:49] <racarr> wasabi: Err, no, the composite manager is drawing to root....
[05:50] <elkbuntu> Keybuk, some part of gnome, cant remember which
[05:50] <wasabi> racarr: oh yes... hmmm
[05:50] <Keybuk> probably changing metacity to behave differently
[05:50] <Keybuk> or adding an option
[05:50] <Keybuk> GNOME really hate it when you give them patches to do that
[05:50] <elkbuntu> Keybuk, i think the latter
[05:50] <racarr> Anyway, I will make the patch for nautilus
[05:50] <racarr> Later today or something
[05:50] <racarr> and err, the patch was to make the third mouse button configurable in metacity?
[05:50] <racarr> patches
[05:51] <racarr> I think
[05:51] <wasabi> So what you really need to do, to accomplish what I want, is for xscreensaver to introduce a new fullscreen window.
[05:51] <wasabi> just on top of root, but under everything else
[05:51] <wasabi> including nautilus
[05:51] <elkbuntu> racarr, that or printing.. my brain keeps saying printing, but i dont trust it
[05:51] <racarr> elkbuntu: I am sure it was related to a third mouse button, I just don't remember in what regard
[05:52] <racarr> wasabi: Yeah, or err
[05:52] <racarr> wasabi: For the composite manager to render the desktop
[05:52] <racarr> we would have a Pixmap for the contents obviously, and bind a texture to it to actually render it
[05:52] <Keybuk> so the composite manager would grow a background plugin?
[05:52] <racarr> so we could expose the Pixmap via an X property (and obviously this is cheap because it is all server side)
[05:53] <racarr> and then your screensaver program could use XRender to composite on to the Pixmap
[05:53] <wasabi> I don't see why the background can't be handled exactly like it is now... a big full window.
[05:53] <racarr> to draw on the background
[05:53] <wasabi> It can just be ANOTHER big full window, under nautilus
[05:53] <racarr> Well, it could be
[05:53] <Keybuk> wasabi: you'd need a window per viewport?
[05:53] <racarr> but this would save you another big window
[05:53] <wasabi> Yes. Which would give you the multi background thing.
[05:53] <racarr> Err, wait, are you talking about screensaver on desktop, or the actual background?
[05:53] <wasabi> Both.
[05:54] <racarr> the reason you want the composite manager to draw the background
[05:54] <wasabi> You could write a program to do the background, any background. Moving or not.
[05:54] <racarr> is because you NEED a window per viewport, so if you have 5 desktops that are the same, and 5 that are different
[05:54] <racarr> you need 10 times fullscreen sized windows, you don't with the compositor 
[05:54] <racarr> plus if you give the compositor a 3000x3000 image
[05:55] <racarr> and it draws it on to your 1280x1024 background
[05:55] <racarr> then it's scaled by GL obviously, so with say the zoom plugin
[05:55] <racarr> when you zoom in, you wouldn't lose quality
[05:55] <racarr> no pixelatin I mean
[05:55] <wasabi> hmmm
[05:55] <racarr> on
[05:55] <wasabi> yah but you lose quality on the rest of the desktop
[05:55] <wasabi> so we should fix that. :)
[05:55] <racarr> Yeah, but either way, it saves resources, and has a potentially nice effect
[05:55] <wasabi> Well, my only desire is to use xscreensaver for hte background.
[05:56] <wasabi> And I don't use viewports or nothin.
[05:56] <racarr> again, you can use xwinwrap to do that but it relies on XGL specifically 
[05:57] <wasabi> either way, I could just ignore the composit manager's background.
[05:57] <racarr> Um, you could put a window under the transparent nautilus window as well
[05:57] <racarr> right
[05:57] <wasabi> Yeah
[05:57] <racarr> Or, the composite manager could set an X property on the desktop window that contains the Pixmap being used for the background
[05:57] <racarr> so that other apps can draw in to it
[05:58] <racarr> You obviously can't do that reliably if you have a window as the background (because it gets repainted when you interact, etc)
[05:58] <wasabi> I'm not even sure how viewports work at that level.
[05:58] <racarr> Pixmaps*
[05:59] <racarr> Keybuk: And yeah, the compositor would get some sort of wallpaper plugin.
[05:59] <racarr> Err, a second too late :P
[05:59] <wasabi> Explain that again, I missed it. Why is it better for the compositor to do this?
[05:59] <racarr> We actually already sort of have it built in to cube but eh
[05:59] <racarr> wasabi: Ok, so if you have 3*3 viewports
[05:59] <wasabi> okay
[06:00] <racarr> and say a hypothetical 100x100 resolution
[06:00] <ion_> Id like a *slowly* changing nice-looking animation as a background. A composite manager collaborating with the desktop would achieve that trivially.
[06:00] <racarr> and lets say you want a different wallpaper on each viewport, or anything besides the same wallpaper on every viewport (even with 8 with 1 background, 1 with another)
[06:00] <wasabi> ion_: So would xscreensaver running as a window right above root.
[06:00] <racarr> then you need 9 100x100 windows
[06:01] <wasabi> racarr: Okay?
[06:01] <wasabi> racarr: And how is 9 windows any worse than  9 viewports?
[06:01] <racarr> Because 9 fullscreen windows sitting in video ram is a lot
[06:01] <wasabi> Would they be there if you weren't viewing their screen?
[06:01] <racarr> But lets say in reality you only had
[06:01] <racarr> 2 backgrounds, 
[06:01] <racarr> and were tiling them on your 9 viewports
[06:02] <racarr> then with the composite manager drawing it, you can get away with having only 2 pixmaps
[06:02] <racarr> as opposed to 9
[06:02] <wasabi> All 9 are in video ram even when you aren't viewing them?
[06:02] <ion_> wasabi: It wouldnt be very easy to have antialiased desktop icons and text against that.
[06:02] <racarr> yes, that's what you have to do with viewports
[06:02] <ion_> wasabi: Without compositing, that is.
[06:02] <racarr> as opposed to workspaces
[06:02] <wasabi> ion_: We are talking aout compositing.
[06:03] <ion_> wasabi: Yes. :-)
[06:03] <wasabi> racarr: Could the viewports reference the same texture in the server?
[06:03] <wasabi> err, the 9 windows.
[06:03] <wasabi> Not the viewports
[06:04] <racarr> wasabi: Err, there is not a texture from the perspective of the windows
[06:04] <wasabi> Well, pixmap then
[06:04] <racarr> Not...really 
[06:04] <Keybuk> compiz is crashing!
[06:04] <wasabi> oh noes!
[06:05] <racarr> they could reference the same image for the background, but they still have to have their own windows to draw the background on
[06:05] <racarr> and the window has a pixmap
[06:05] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: blame racarr 
[06:05] <racarr> Keybuk: Err, I said this a second or so after you left
[06:05] <racarr> yes the compositor would have a background plugin added, but we already sort of have one
[06:05] <wasabi> So what are viewports? Something created by the compositor itself?
[06:05] <wasabi> Without help from the X server?
[06:06] <racarr> no...there is help from the X server...mm. but the compositor can reuse the same 2 pixmaps
[06:06] <racarr> because from the perspective of the compositor, drawing the desktop background
[06:06] <racarr> is just drawing a quad with a texture before it draws the other windows
[06:06] <racarr> Hobbsee: Thanks :)
[06:07] <wasabi> Hmm. So, In the 9x9 situation, why would there have to be 9 windows?
[06:07] <Hobbsee> racarr: no problems, crazy american tourist.
[06:07] <wasabi> Why can't you have one window per desktop, and show it on the viewports it belongs one
[06:07] <wasabi> on
[06:07] <wasabi> err, one window per diferent picture
[06:07] <racarr> Err, you mean 3x3 ?
[06:07] <wasabi> yes, or 9x9 =)
[06:07] <wasabi> Windows can span viewports...
[06:07] <racarr> And, you sort of could with a protocol to tell the compositor "This window covers these viewports, this window covers these other viewports"
[06:07] <racarr> etc
[06:08] <Keybuk> so today turns out to be a bad day to have dist-upgrade'd
[06:08] <racarr> but that's also kind of strange, because if you right clicked on the window, and a menu popped up, in some situation where you can see more than one viewport
[06:08] <wasabi> racarr: Can't you have one window on many viewports?
[06:08] <racarr> then it would only show on the ones that had the same desktop background :P
[06:08] <wasabi> the popup menu wouldbe it's own window
[06:08] <wasabi> on the single viewport that existed when it was right clicked on
[06:09] <racarr> No
[06:09] <racarr> well
[06:09] <racarr> yes
[06:09] <racarr> but it would be drawn in various places, just like the desktop window (under your scheme)
[06:09] <wasabi> Okay, first question, can a single window exist in multiple viewports at the same time?
[06:09] <wasabi> I was under the impression that it could
[06:09] <racarr> Yes. 
[06:09] <wasabi> And the program creating the window can control what viewports.
[06:10] <racarr> In that it can move it in to a viewport, yes
[06:10] <wasabi> Hmm, but it can't be seen on both?
[06:10] <racarr> It can...like when you move a window over the edge in cube
[06:10] <racarr> and you can sticky a window, i.e. in all viewports
[06:10] <wasabi> compiz gives me a selection which lets me decide what viewports the window shows on
[06:10] <racarr> Yes
[06:11] <racarr> But, for desktop windows
[06:11] <racarr> desktop windows are right now painted in every viewport, so like I said
[06:11] <wasabi> actually compiz crashes today. heh
[06:11] <racarr> there would have to be a way to tell the compositor "make me the desktop window for viewports 2 3 7 and 9"
[06:11] <wasabi> Why the "desktop window?"
[06:11] <wasabi> Why not just another application owned window, that happens to be one z-index above root
[06:11] <wasabi> Why does the compositor care?
[06:12] <desrt> wasabi; 'sup
[06:12] <racarr> the desktop window is just another application owned window with certain hints set
[06:12] <wasabi> desrt: nothin. you?
[06:12] <racarr> so that say it doesn't show up when you use alt tab so you can't move it over all your other windows
[06:12] <wasabi> sre...
[06:13] <wasabi> sure... and these application owned windows can't set that?
[06:13] <desrt> wasabi; my arm hurts
[06:13] <racarr> ...they can
[06:13] <wasabi> ... desrt, why?
[06:13] <racarr> but right now there is no way to say "make me the desktop window for viewports 2 3 7 and 9"
[06:13] <racarr> just "make me the desktop window"
[06:14] <wasabi> Hmm. I guess I still don't follow. You speak about the "desktop window" like it's some special thing... but I don't see why. Seems to me it's just a window that's big and has some hints that say keep below everything else.
[06:14] <desrt> wasabi; too much hacking!!
[06:14] <racarr> and that says "draw me in every viewport"
[06:15] <racarr> imagine if the desktop were a giant table, divided in to 2x2 viewports
[06:15] <racarr> then the desktop window is only as big as one of the viewports
[06:15] <wasabi> But I thought windows could be set to draw on multiple viewports.
[06:15] <racarr> Yes, but right now when you set a window as the desktop window it's assumed it draws on ALL viewports
[06:15] <wasabi> So don't set that. =)
[06:15] <racarr> so, again, you would have to implement a way to say "I only want to be the desktop window for 2 3 7 and 9"
[06:16] <racarr> well, that would break things
[06:17] <desrt> this is all IICCCCMMMMMM stuff
[06:17] <desrt> you could change it -- but then you'd have to change every window manager ever
[06:17] <racarr> wasabi: What I mean is, things would have to be changed, so that you can still say "Hi I'm a desktop window"
[06:18] <racarr> without saying "Hi! draw me on every viewport"
[06:18] <racarr> desrt: No, it could check for NET_WM_NAME = compiz before behaving like this
[06:18] <wasabi_> So the basic problem is it has to be hinted as a "destop window", but that carries consequences that you don't want.
[06:18] <desrt> so compiz-only features?
[06:18] <wasabi_> And what does being hinted the "desktop window" actually do other than draw it on all desktops?
[06:18] <desrt> wasabi; there's a "sticky" option
[06:19] <desrt> wasabi; that causes the window to be visible on all desktops
[06:19] <racarr> things like
[06:19] <racarr> if you click on the desktop window
[06:19] <racarr> it's not raised
[06:19] <racarr> etc
[06:19] <racarr> (that
[06:19] <wasabi_> but you can make any window that doesn't get raised when you click on it, no?
[06:19] <racarr> 's all handled in the window manager obviously)
[06:19] <wasabi_> heck, the gnome panel does that
[06:19] <racarr> Yes, with the Panel type 
[06:20] <wasabi_> Oh, so there is no setting for "do not raise me" other than this "type" thing
[06:20] <desrt> "dock"
[06:20] <desrt> wasabi; read the spec
[06:20] <racarr> Yes...there is, but it's a collection of settings, and various things check for the desktop window in effects
[06:20] <desrt> wasabi; it's like a cookbook of tricks that you can use
[06:20] <racarr> etc
[06:20] <racarr> if you have a desktop window, you really need to be saying it's a desktop window rather than misrepresent it as something else
[06:20] <racarr> but it would be trivial to add something to tell the composite manager
[06:20] <wasabi_> hmm.
[06:20] <desrt> wasabi; you'll probably find either exactly what yr looking for or some combination of things that you can abuse for the desire effect and flame the maintainers of various window managers when it doesn't work like you expected
[06:20] <racarr> "I don't want to be drawn on all viewports just 1 3 7 8 and 9"
[06:20] <wasabi_> okay, so I see your point. You'd have to alter compiz to let the desktop window be on arbitrary viewports
[06:21] <racarr> yes, and it would be easy
[06:21] <wasabi_> And then you could have multiple desktop windows, done by a program other than compiz.
[06:21] <wasabi_> For instance, I could alter xscreensaver to open a desktop window on a specific viewport.
[06:21] <racarr> Sure
[06:21] <desrt> you know that viewports don't actually exist, right?
[06:22] <wasabi_> desrt: Sure, they are just hints to the window manager, no?
[06:22] <desrt> wasabi_; not even that
[06:22] <desrt> wasabi_; the window manager just treats each window it knows of as if it were part of a particular viewport
[06:22] <racarr> No...that's workspaces :)
[06:23] <desrt> wasabi_; and when the viewport changes (an operation that is contained solely within the wm) it unmaps/maps windows to "show" the correct set
[06:23] <racarr> again, no
[06:23] <racarr> that is workspaces
[06:23] <desrt> oh
[06:23] <wasabi_> pwnt
[06:23] <desrt> yes.  i do mean workspaces
[06:23] <desrt> what are you talking about viewports?
[06:23] <racarr> viewports are entirely different
[06:23] <racarr> Ah, no, heh
[06:24] <racarr> this problem wouldn't exist with workspaces (just because it wouldn't be relevant as something desirable)
[06:24] <Riddell> Keybuk: able to give back xine-lib?
[06:26] <racarr> Err, anyway wasabi  it would be easy to extend Compiz to let per viewport wallpapers work well with a normal desktop manager (we used to have this in Beryl with a desktop manager I wrote that made one window per viewport), but there are a few reasons I would like to have the composite manager draw the viewport under a transparent desktop window that contains the icons instead...
[06:27] <racarr> Mostly, the fact that it lets us make it work with desktop managers with very non obtrusive changes (patching a desktop manager to draw icons on a transparent desktop window rather than one with a background will be really trivial)
[06:27] <racarr> whereas patching nautilus to make multiple windows would be much more so, and the same would have to be done for all desktop managers
[06:27] <racarr> and then when you get in to effects like fading the backgrounds without touching the icons, you would again have to modify all the managers, etc
[06:28] <racarr> whereas if we do it in the compositor we get it for free, and because we have OGL to draw with we can do more interesting effects
[06:28] <racarr> Then there is the nice side effect that if you give the composite manager an oversized desktop background, you can avoid pixellation when zooming
[06:29] <wasabi_> Well, we should be able to do that for all windows, some day
[06:29] <racarr> Err, do what for all windows?
[06:29] <wasabi_> zoom without quality loss
[06:29] <racarr> Oh
[06:29] <racarr> that's a ways off :P
[06:29] <wasabi_> yeah. vista does it.
[06:30] <racarr> Err...I haven't used Vista much, but that would be news to me
[06:30] <wasabi_> It does it over remote desktop too.
[06:30] <wasabi_> Their "window server" thing (much like X), has vectors uploaded to it.
[06:30] <wasabi_> It's basically a retained graphics model out of process.
[06:32] <racarr> Do you mean just for fonts, or what?
[06:33] <wasabi_> No, for everything.
[06:33] <wasabi_> Well, all NEW things.
[06:33] <wasabi_> Buttons, lists, whatever. All new widgets.
[06:33] <wasabi_> Animations and stuff too.
[06:34] <wasabi_> They upload their drawing operations (basically vectors, and instructions) into the display server.
[06:34] <racarr> Yes, that's what we do
[06:34] <wasabi_> So the display server can zoom, and replay the operation to obtain a perfectly zoomed version
[06:34] <racarr> then the display server draws them to a pixmap
[06:34] <wasabi_> No pixelation
[06:34] <racarr> and the composite manager renders them
[06:34] <racarr> so when it zooms, the texture/pixmap is scaled
[06:34] <wasabi_> Yeah, vista redraws when zoomed.
[06:34] <wasabi_> No scaling
[06:35] <etank> pygi: ping
[06:35] <racarr> Mm, that's new to me, but interesting I guess.
[06:35] <pygi> etank, you're fast if I may add ^^
[06:36] <etank> why yes i am
[06:36] <wasabi_> It's interesting because they have it working in RDP (remote desktop)
[06:36] <pygi> glad to hear you wanna become a motu etank ;)
[06:36] <wasabi_> If you remote from one box to another, it doesn't actually move final composited images across teh wire.
[06:36] <pygi> I'm here to assist you with whatever questions you might have :)
[06:36] <wasabi_> It moves the vector tree.
[06:36] <racarr> Keybuk: Do you think I should put some stuff in to the composite by default spec about the desktop stuff we just discovered ?
[06:36] <racarr> err
[06:36] <etank> pygi: cool
[06:36] <racarr> Keybuk: discussed, not discovered
[06:36] <wasabi_> And animations happen on the display server.... like moving a button from position X to position Y.... happens on the RDP client
[06:42] <racarr> It's not really clear to me if you are talking about stuff we have had on X since it was created (network transparent protocol...)
[06:42] <racarr> or something new
[06:46] <pygi> night Hobbsee 
[06:55] <racarr> Bed as well, somethings slightly wrong about the fact that I am going to sleep at the same time as someone 12 timezones away... (or is it 10?), but eh
[06:59] <wasabi_> racarr: in X clients draw to a bitmap. The drawing instructions live on the client. In the new Vista stuff, clients upload SVG's and animation sequences to the server, and the server renders them.
[06:59] <wasabi_> But not really SVGs, their own stuff
[07:14] <Chipzz> Keybuk: actually the reason for nautilus drawing the background is to be able to have anti-aliassed text
[07:32] <TomaszD> Can anyone tell me when the next translation update takes place for feisty?
[07:33] <TomaszD> I'm a translator for Ubuntu and I'd like to know this, will it ever take place? Martin Pitt told me it would happen in May, but it didn't.
[07:59] <mpt> TomaszD, pitti will likely be back on Monday
[07:59] <mpt> if you want to ask him directly
[07:59] <TomaszD> mpt, is he the only person who knows that?
[07:59] <TomaszD> :] 
[07:59] <mpt> I don't know, sorry
[08:00] <pochu> TomaszD: maybe carlos too, but he's not around atm.
[08:00] <TomaszD> ok
[08:00] <TomaszD> thanks
[08:12] <mneptok> TomaszD: have you asked on ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com ?
[08:14] <TomaszD> I haven't. 
[08:15] <mneptok> might help. *shrug*
[08:18] <minghua> I remember reading about the translation update plan somewhere
[08:18] <minghua> can't remember exactly where though
[08:18] <LaserJock> me too
[08:20] <minghua> LaserJock: I remember you said that you couldn't reproduce the octave2.9 wrong result bug on feisty i386, is that right?
[08:21] <LaserJock> yep
[08:21] <LaserJock> I got the "correct" result according to the link in the bug report
[08:22] <minghua> LaserJock: would you please add that to the bug report?  it's bug 117517
[08:22] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 117517 in octave2.9 "octave is linking incorrectly BLAS/ATLAS libraries" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/117517
[08:27] <sits> Could someone point me to the right IRC channel to discuss a kernel bug?
[08:27] <LaserJock>  #ubuntu-kernel I'd guess
[08:27] <sits> LaserJock: thanks
[09:42] <Keybuk> Chipzz: that's what I was attempting to say :p
[09:42] <Keybuk> icon shadows, text, etc.
[09:42] <Keybuk> of course, this is pre-Xrender
[09:42] <Keybuk> cause you can have anti-aliased text without doing that now
[09:43] <Keybuk> racarr: no real opinion; it could be a separate spec (and a feature goal), but if it's more trivial to implement than describe, patches are better ;)
[09:43] <Chipzz> Keybuk: you need (more-than-1-bit)-transparency though
[09:43] <Keybuk> Chipzz: yes, Xrender
[09:44] <Keybuk> that gives you 8-bit transparency (iirc, it may be 16 or 32)
[09:53] <BenC> Keybuk: mind processing linux-source-2.6.22 6.13 out of NEW for me, please?
[09:54] <BenC> got lrm and lum dep-waiting on it, and linux-meta awaiting upload
[09:54] <Keybuk> the perils of logging in on Saturaday
[09:55] <Keybuk> is there any special procedure for linux-source atm?
[09:55] <kylem> nyet.
[09:55] <BenC> Keybuk: not that I know of
[09:55] <Keybuk> accepted
[09:55] <BenC> Keybuk: thanks
[09:56] <Burgundavia> hey Keybuk, BenC, kylem
[09:56] <kylem> hi.
[09:56] <BenC> Burgundavia: hey
[10:37] <jdong> Could I get a main sponsor on bug 110881?
[10:37] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 110881 in ktorrent "[SRU]  Citical bug cherrypicks from SVN" [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/110881
[11:27] <jetscreamer> how do you get the installer to install / to a pre-existing filesystem and not 'format' the partition
[12:05] <jander99> Good evening from Atlanta, Ga.
[12:06] <Burgundavia> hey jander99
[12:09] <jander99> I'm looking forward to testing Gutsy, just updated from Feisty and already found a few things that need some polish :)
[12:09] <Burgundavia> file bugs
[12:10] <Burgundavia> or are you able to help with the coding?
[12:11] <jander99> Well I'll be starting with the bug filing, but its possible I could do some code review to get started.  I've been reading about ways to contribute to ubuntu, kde, and linux as a whole so hopefully I can bring myself up to speed and dive right in soon ;-)