[04:57] <macogw> have there by any chance been reports of serious issues with feisty's installers (both ubiquity and d-i)?
[04:58] <macogw> for instance, ubiquity seqfaulting mid-install and d-i quitting at 6% of "installing software"
[04:59] <evand> macogw: none that I've seen.  You might want to check your memory and hard drive.  Please report a bug (attaching the appropriate logs) if they're both OK.
[04:59] <macogw> evand: done and done
[04:59] <macogw> evand: i had to install from 6.10's live cd and then upgrade
[05:00] <macogw> evand: what would be "the appropriate logs"? and i did figure out one way for d-i to install..tell it not to install X, after which "apt-get install ubuntu-desktop" fails
[05:01] <macogw> evand: also not my cd drive. i could install debian etch, dapper, and edgy with no problems, and i checksum'd all 4 feisty cd's that i tried
[05:01] <evand> macogw: Running ubiquity with the -d option and attaching /var/log/installer/debug and /var/log/syslog
[05:01] <macogw> ok i can try that
[05:02] <macogw> what to do about d-i though?
[05:02] <evand> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingUbiquity/AttachingLogs
[05:03] <evand> I believe syslog will do for d-i.
[05:03] <macogw> evand: but..how do i get syslog?
[05:04] <evand> /var/log/installer/syslog in the installed system, I believe
[05:04] <macogw> evand: i cant get into bash while d-i is running
[05:04] <macogw> it doesnt finish installing
[05:04] <evand> ah
[05:04] <evand> alt-f4
[05:04] <evand> hit enter
[05:04] <macogw> ok
[05:04] <evand> you are able to use the other VTs
[05:04] <macogw> oh oko
[05:04] <macogw> i thought they were disabled during it
[05:04] <evand> errr
[05:05] <evand> VT 4 is the actual log
[05:05] <evand> try 3
[05:05] <evand> alt-f3
[05:05] <macogw> kk
[05:06] <macogw> evand: also, i wanted to know, is there any chance that at some point the installers will stop installing 30+ video drivers and bluetooth drivers and drivers for all kinds of hardware that dont even exist in your computer?
[05:07] <macogw> i find it kind of weird that the bluetooth driver is set to run from boot on my pentium 2
[05:07] <macogw> ya know, on top of the fact that there's even bluetooth drivers *installed*
[05:07] <evand> macogw: it's not much overhead for a huge gain for the people that have it.
[05:07] <macogw> evand: not what i mean
[05:07] <macogw> evand: if your comp has bluetooth, then install/setup bluetooth stuff
[05:08] <macogw> if your comp doesnt have bluetooth, skip it
[05:08] <macogw> or does hardware detection not factor into what's installed at all?
[05:09] <evand> I'm not involved in the bluetooth stack, but if they could make it detect when bluetooth hardware was present 100% of the time without loading the drivers and supporting applications, then I imagine they would.
[05:09] <evand> That is, install on demand.
[05:10] <macogw> it tricked me into thinking my laptop had bluetooth when it doesnt :p
[05:10] <evand> There has been at least one thread on ubuntu-devel on this, as it pertained to printers, but I can't find it.
[05:10] <evand> heh
[05:12] <macogw> evand: i was thinking that for ubuntu to be leaner, the original installers could install drivers for just what's present at install, then have a secondary program which does a check at boot to make sure your config hasnt changed, and dies silently if it's the same as last boot, but if it's different, it brings up an ncurses thing going "you have installed a new graphics card, ATI Radeon 9200, which requires xserver-xorg-video-ati to run. would
[05:13] <macogw> oi, i can type 2 or 3 words  before they appear on the screen
[05:14] <macogw> and i dont type that fast
[05:14] <macogw> if i thought it was possible to run some sort of benchmarking software without windows freaking out before i installed this, i would compare their slownesses
[05:17] <evand> If you're looking for a leaner Ubuntu, try Xubuntu.  As far as kernel drivers go, most things are compiled as modules, so it takes up a few kilobytes on your drive and isn't loaded until it's needed.
[05:18] <macogw> evand: i was gonna go fluxbox or icewm, but im not sure my family would welcome anything but gnome
[05:19] <evand> XFCE (what's used in Xubuntu) isn't half bad, and if you're running a Pentium 2 I can't imagine GNOME running well on that these days.
[05:19] <macogw> evand: i'm told kde runs better on it than gnome
[05:20] <macogw> i wonder if i can install ubuntu and xubuntu and have it fit on this hard drive
[05:20] <macogw> er...ubuntu-desktop and xubuntu-desktop i mean
[05:21] <evand> I've bounced between KDE and GNOME a few times over the years.  I haven't seen much of a performance difference between the two.
[05:21] <evand> ymmv though
[05:21] <macogw> evand: he says he runs kubuntu on a p2 with 160mb ram
[05:21] <macogw> this one has 192 mb, but i'm gonna max it out (384mb)
[05:22] <evand> hrm
[05:22] <evand> Hey if it works, go for it
[04:10] <CIA-19> ubiquity: cjwatson * r2071 ubiquity/ (debian/changelog ubiquity/components/console_setup.py):
[04:10] <CIA-19> ubiquity: * Update console-setup component for Lithuanian changes in console-setup
[04:10] <CIA-19> ubiquity:  1.16ubuntu1.
[04:16] <CIA-19> oem-config: cjwatson * r296 oem-config/ (debian/changelog lib/components/console_setup.py):
[04:16] <CIA-19> oem-config: * Update console-setup component for Lithuanian changes in console-setup
[04:16] <CIA-19> oem-config:  1.16ubuntu1.