=== mc44 [n=mc44@unaffiliated/mc44] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Exit,] === Burgundavia [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === jsgotangco [n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === licio [n=licio@ubuntu/member/licio] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Burgundavia [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === j_ack [n=jack@p508d81ad.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === beuno [n=martin@ubuntu/member/beuno] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === merriam_ [n=merriam@85-211-245-180.dyn.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === DBO [n=DBO@unaffiliated/dbo] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === DBO [n=DBO@unaffiliated/dbo] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ace_suares [n=ace@fupi.suares.an] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === _neversfelde [n=neversfe@nrbg-4db44651.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === DBO [n=DBO@unaffiliated/dbo] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ogra [n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra] has joined 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#ubuntu-meeting === blenderhead001 [n=blenderh@adsl-068-209-133-121.sip.jax.bellsouth.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === slomo [n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [11:29] @schedule Paris [11:29] Schedule for Europe/Paris: 06 Jun 22:00: Edubuntu | 07 Jun 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jun 17:00: Kernel Team | 13 Jun 14:00: Edubuntu | 14 Jun 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 16 Jun 19:00: Xubuntu Developers === jsgotangco [n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === pochu [n=emilio@51.Red-83-57-164.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === SWAT [n=SWAT@ubuntu/member/swat] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === hjmf [n=hjmf@138.Red-83-45-117.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === pochu [n=emilio@51.Red-83-57-164.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === neversfelde_ [n=neversfe@nrbg-4db4455a.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === allee [n=ach@dialin-212-144-132-018.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined 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[n=sysadmin@unaffiliated/yharrow] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === juliux [n=juliux@ubuntu/member/juliux] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === blenderhead001 [n=blenderh@adsl-068-209-133-121.sip.jax.bellsouth.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:13] @schedule [09:13] Schedule for Etc/UTC: 06 Jun 20:00: Edubuntu | 07 Jun 20:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jun 15:00: Kernel Team | 13 Jun 12:00: Edubuntu | 14 Jun 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 16 Jun 17:00: Xubuntu Developers === Seveas [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === pips1 [n=philipp@49.187.77.83.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Mithrandir [n=tfheen@vawad-xen1.err.no] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Edubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 07 Jun 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jun 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 13 Jun 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 14 Jun 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 16 Jun 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers === Martinp23 [n=Martinp2@wikimedia/Martinp23] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === willvdl [n=Will@vc-196-207-41-253.3g.vodacom.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === LaserJock [n=mantha@ubuntu/member/laserjock] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [10:00] time? === ogra waves === willvdl waves [10:01] LaserJock, 10pm [10:01] same here :) [10:01] 1pm here [10:01] silly people [10:01] heh [10:01] todays meeting would have been a EC meeting [10:02] whatever that means nowadays ... [10:02] ah, that reminds me [10:02] well, we do have a fairly big pile of applicants === pips1 waves [10:02] well, nobody o the agenda [10:02] i just looked [10:02] I approved stgraber the other day [10:02] well, I'm not sure that people know they need to be added [10:02] i wonder if the procedure is to unclear [10:03] I'll look into it [10:03] we can fix that on the team description [10:03] if it isn't it probably is my fault :) [10:03] The Edubuntu council will review membership candidates at every first meeting in a month, please add yourself below and subscribe to [WWW] https://launchpad.net/people/edubuntu-members. Note that the same membership rules as in Ubuntu apply. [10:03] from the agenda page ... [10:03] we should have it on the wiki [10:03] but the EC *has* technically run out [10:03] with a bit adjustment it should fit for the team page [10:04] can we vote on including someone as a member in his/her absence? [10:04] LaserJock. ? [10:04] yes, people us LP for teams these days, wiki pages don't necessarily get done [10:04] ogra: the EC memberships where for 2 releases, which ended with Feisty's release [10:04] *were [10:04] oh, we need to refresh then [10:04] unless someone wants to step back [10:05] well, I somehow feel like we should have some sort of procedure for this [10:05] well, we should keep such discussions for meetings where the full EC is around [10:05] yes, you're right [10:05] i'd like to have highvoltage ad RichEd attending for such stuff [10:06] sure [10:06] anyway, lets get started ... [10:06] I vote for Gavin MCullagh as edubuntu member, he rocks! :-) [10:06] i'll try to keep tech as short as possible today, since i'm currently trying to get the liveCD fixed aside here [10:06] pips1. right, but he needs to attend the meeting at least [10:07] i'd happily approve him indeed [10:07] i'll mail him about it [10:07] good idea [10:07] ok, anyway, the tribe1 CD is due tomorrow ... === besonen_mobile [n=besonen_@71-220-233-253.eugn.qwest.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [10:08] https://isotesting.stgraber.org/isotesting/iso/Edubuntu [10:09] the liveCD is still oversized and due to a bug in the build system it couldnt get fixed until now, i'm working on getting a properly sized iso done tonight though [10:09] the i386 CD should be fine for use and not be much different to gutsy [10:09] please test as you can ... [10:10] ltsp ... [10:10] are there any notes for what to test on the Desktop CDs? [10:10] one of our biggest bootspeed issues, X detection will be dropped in the next upload [10:10] or is there no link because they aren't built yet [10:10] LaserJock. live session and ubiquity for now [10:10] its only the first milestone [10:10] its fine if it roughly works [10:11] I can do most of i386 tonight I think [10:11] ogra, what does it mean to drop X detection? [10:11] willvdl. 20seconds fsater boots [10:11] *faster [10:11] I mean what does X detect do :) [10:11] willvdl: we were doing autodetection of X on the clients [10:11] server checking for X on the clients? [10:11] for automatically setting up X on the clients [10:12] xorg 7.3 and the new xrandr can detect the X setup at runtime now, so no xorg.conf is needed anymore [10:12] the Xorg "magic" [10:12] gotcha [10:12] so are we just not using autodetection? [10:12] before we had a script that ran dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg on boot which was very time consuming [10:12] great, cause xorg.conf is a mystery to me :) [10:12] LaserJock. right [10:13] ugg, dpkg-reconfigure on every boot? [10:13] that's no fun [10:13] i will leave the code in but add an option for lts.conf to force its usage, by default we'll use xorg's magic [10:13] it makes the booting incredibly fast [10:13] and worked on all clients i tried it on [10:14] two issues are left with that though [10:14] funny mouse setups ... [10:14] (27 button cybermice with 4 scrollwheels and vibrator) [10:15] they might be problematic t set up in the beginning ... [10:15] nad keyboards ... [10:15] *and [10:15] four that cousin that looks like your brother? [10:16] i'm not sure yet how to handle keyboard settings ... there are several options [10:16] anyway, that will be a major change in tsp and a big step forward technically [10:16] *ltsp [10:16] a post config script perhaps? [10:16] yes, indeed [10:17] or simply running xmodmap after x startup [10:18] thats about all i have to say about tech today ... [10:18] i sent the priority list for specs to Keybuk, but he didnt assig the prios yet [10:18] I'm a little closer to core-dev [10:19] due to time costraints RichEd and i didnt have the opportunity to go through approving yet either [10:19] hopefully soonish I'll have a interview with the TB and they'll decide [10:19] yeah, to bad that didnt happen yesterday [10:19] I'm working on categorization for the add-on CD [10:20] ogra: I've got a tech question for you about that, what do we ship from XFCE4? [10:20] do we ship a complete xfce4 on the add-on CD? [10:20] its in the ship-addon seeds, let me look [10:21] hmm, from the seed it looks pretty complete [10:21] but it's a bit hazy from the .desktops [10:21] http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/24479/ [10:22] because there are only .desktops for like the plugins [10:22] a xfce-meta.desktop file ? [10:22] or edubuntu-xfce [10:22] anyway, by looking at the current CD contents I came up with the following categories [10:23] ogra: yeah, that's what I'm thinking we need [10:23] good, lets have it :) [10:23] * Young Children [10:23] * Graphics [10:23] * Science [10:23] * Extras [10:23] * KDE Edutainment [10:23] * XFCE4 [10:23] i dont like XFCE4 [10:24] as a category or period? :-) [10:24] how bout something like * Light Desktop (xfce) [10:24] ok sure [10:24] nobody has an idea what XFCE might mean [10:24] apart from us probably [10:24] what does it mean? :) [10:25] so those categories are what would be in the g-a-i menu [10:25] any other suggestions? [10:25] LaserJock, what about collaboration stuff? e.g. moodle, other cms's [10:25] * Games ? [10:25] well, we don't have those yet [10:25] ogra: well, I was thinking that the games would go in "Young Children" [10:26] ah [10:26] do we have games for older people on there? [10:26] right [10:26] could we pslit the kde-edu stuff into the categories? probably not, it's one package right? [10:26] ot yet [10:26] but its surely possible [10:26] well, we can split them up [10:26] in the menu [10:26] but at this point I wonder if people are more thinking "I'm looking for the KDE edu stuff" [10:26] cause kde-edu has maths, science, language... [10:26] sure [10:27] what I was planning [10:27] LaserJock, except those who have o idea what it is [10:27] right [10:27] is if we get more apps for other categories we split it up [10:27] but I don't want a category with one item I guess [10:27] or would that be fine? [10:27] sounds right [10:27] well [10:27] makes sense. [10:27] yep [10:28] we have 53 .desktops right now [10:28] 17 of them are xfce [10:28] roughly 15 KDEEdu [10:29] well, the other thing is, what is the best way to get testing of this? [10:29] I could manually adjust the menus and desktops [10:29] and rebuild the .iso [10:29] add info how to test it to the testing procedures [10:29] but I'm not sure if that's helpful for people to have to download the whole .iso to test [10:29] oh, you mean during development [10:29] yes [10:30] well, you should rsync [10:30] and we should work on the real iso [10:30] it wont change much so the rsyncs will be very fast [10:30] well, I guess I just need to bug cjwatson and figure out how that app-install directory gets on there [10:31] if it's fairly easy then I can make adjustments and we can see the results in the dailies [10:31] right [10:31] alright, I think that's enough from me [10:31] at least if mvo cant help [10:31] I asked mvo and pitti already [10:32] i always thoght app-install-data was responsible [10:32] well, my question is how it actually ends up on the .iso [10:32] perhaps I'm not clearly stating my question [10:33] I don't think I have access to the build scripts that do that part [10:33] hmm [10:34] I looked through ubuntu-cdimage and couldn't find anything [10:34] right [10:34] I mean, the app-install directory is like what app-install-data provides [10:34] well, colin might be able to help [10:35] but I don't know where to tap into to get my modifications on the add-on CD [10:35] yep i understand [10:35] more tech questions ? [10:35] I'm good I think [10:35] not here [10:36] then lets move on [10:36] docs ? [10:36] well, I'd like to do website first if that's OK? [10:36] well, nixternal is scheduling a Doc Team meeting [10:36] indeed [10:36] I'm listed as required to attend for Edubuntu [10:36] that's all from me [10:36] LaserJock, I'll do my bit to be there [10:36] cool [10:37] willvdl: that would be good [10:37] I'm behind on the procedures. the kenya trip threw me a bit [10:37] ogra, LaserJock: I did some hacking with cjwatson on this, but I can't remember what bzr branch was responsible for this (colin did most of the work on the cdimage front) [10:37] but matt east has done good work with the team page [10:37] mvo. i'll find out, thanks [10:37] it's way better than my attempt tod escribe things :) [10:37] mvo: ok, thanks. [10:38] willvdl: link? [10:38] erm, wiki.ubuntu.com/DocTeam or something [10:38] I'm a wiki editor for help.u.com now [10:39] so I can remove those annoying old and duplicated cookbooks [10:39] cool [10:40] DocumentationTeam probably [10:42] it's good anyway [10:42] shall we chat website? [10:42] shoot [10:42] did anyone discuss it last week? [10:42] well,... [10:42] I kind of missed my cue last time === willvdl notices no minutes :( [10:43] I don't remember last week [10:43] when I started my report, everybody had gone already ;-D [10:43] urk [10:43] oh, wait, that would've been 5am, I wasn't here [10:43] lazy boy [10:43] blah, I was up til 3am last night with Ubuntu stuff [10:44] ok, I checked minutes form previous week [10:44] items are: [10:44] drupal 5.1 === pips1 pinches willvdl for teasing laser [10:44] theme template [10:44] willvdl: I will let you know the date and time of the meeting...what is a "best" time for you? [10:44] and our own customisation [10:44] right [10:44] nixternal, my evenings. I'm UTC+2 [10:45] actually, the timezones normally work out OK for me. jsut not a weekend :) [10:46] pips1, have you or highvoltage received anything from newz2000? [10:46] highvoltage volunteered to customise the template, apparently, he got the template from matt nuzum and started working on it. last week, he said he would put up the reworked template for comments... as soon as he is ready [10:46] haven't spoken to highvoltage since, though [10:47] OK good news [10:47] he's probably off starting a new company [10:47] slacker [10:47] ;-) [10:47] as for me, I have been busy with my day job :-/ nothing to report really :-( [10:47] pips1, likewise :( === nixternal hasn't been busy enough [10:47] heh [10:47] as soon as we have that template, let's setup the proposed edubuntu-website team [10:48] and brainstorm our content [10:48] wiki vs web etc. [10:48] well, no need to wait for the template to brainstorm on content, really [10:48] meaning, how to fit what into where. but yes, you're right :) [10:48] just put a picture of me on there and you sell cds like hotcakes! [10:49] sell like hotcakes where? [10:49] nixternal, are you the little girl on the edubuntu cover? [10:49] nixternal: hehe [10:49] hawwtckes [10:49] I hope not [10:49] willvdl: lol [10:49] willvdl: lol [10:49] gahaha [10:49] heh [10:49] well, I think it's a good idea to brainstorm the web content on the wiki [10:50] ok [10:50] then when it's been tossed around enough, get it cleaned up and put in drupal [10:50] we need to focus people to edubuntu.org [10:50] as the primary starting point [10:50] yeah. as much static info on there as possible rather than wiki [10:51] so we need to make sure that the stuff people really need is either on there or linked from there [10:51] it's not bad to have a short bit on something and link to a wiki page for more info [10:51] but things like this silly Desktop CD issue [10:51] ok, let's check with highvoltage tomorrow. is he putting up a sandbox? [10:51] static = proof read, generalised (or at least tagged as 6.06 LTS and 'Latest greatest' release) [10:51] LaserJock, exactly what I mean [10:51] we need to have a nice big notice that people shouldn't be installing via the Desktop CD [10:52] we also need to put some dynamic in the frontpage [10:52] people want to see new news and things [10:52] static also means links to things that don't change, release notes, news items, team info etc. [10:52] alot of our current wiki can go in there [10:53] right [10:53] well, you want to strike a balance [10:53] between having to maintain a hug pile of static docs [10:53] OK, first things first: drupal 5.1? [10:53] well [10:53] we can start working on content on the wiki right now [10:53] yep [10:54] we should tag wiki docs we want to go on edubuntu.org [10:54] not sure it will be that simple [10:54] not first things first but things-to-be-done-in-parallel :-) [10:54] :) [10:54] we should tag info or sections that can go on the web. the wiki pages are quite convoluted [10:54] (well, best-effort-in-parallel) [10:54] well, it's not like we update to drupal 5.1 and all of a sudden content pops out ;-) [10:55] why not? why are we using t drupal then? [10:55] because, it's shiny [10:55] drupalAI [10:55] just kidding [10:55] lol [10:55] you guys are cracking me up [10:56] cuz drupal is hawwt [10:56] willvdl: drupalAI that plugs into some Google search API? [10:56] so we'll make a website page under edubuntu/devel or something [10:56] awesome [10:56] anyway, I can do a clean install of drupal... [10:56] pips1, you've got a sandbox right? [10:56] willvdl: yes, and we can just list candidates there [10:56] willvdl: yes, I have a sandbox [10:57] willvdl: those are good bite-size tasks for contributors [10:57] "we need these wiki pages cleaned up before going on edubuntu.org" [10:57] is it live? i.e. as in on the web? [10:57] LaserJock, that reminds me, nearly done with BST structure [10:57] and I have access to the current .org server, I just haven't had the time to familiarise myself with that box / have a look what is already setup on that box regarding apache/mysql, etc [10:58] willvdl: yes, my sandbox server can be accessed online, the beta site is running on it too [10:58] excellent [10:59] so we can devel it parallel [10:59] yep [10:59] I know I'm jumping around but LaserJock, can you repeat what you said to me the other day about MOTU recipes? [11:00] oh, sure [11:00] well we've started this wiki project [11:00] MOTU Recipies [11:00] where people can write sort of HowTo like pages for specific packaging tasks [11:00] like making a debdiff [11:00] or doing a merge [11:00] it's a bit more indepth than just a FAQ [11:01] it's a bit more like topics in the Topic Based Help system [11:01] anyway [11:01] I was thinking this might be cool for Edubuntu [11:01] and in fact, if we got a good collection of Edubuntu Recipes [11:01] then an Edubuntu Cookbook becomes a natural outcome [11:02] fingers crossed [11:02] :-) [11:02] it could even be like "my edubuntu recipe" or how I installed my lab [11:02] since it's on a wiki people can add/enhance as they come across things [11:02] willvdl: exactly [11:02] gavin started some nice docs recently [11:02] I really think this is the best way to capture contributions [11:02] ogra, the FAQ? [11:02] we need to make sure to get them over to us [11:02] in #ubuntu-motu when people come across something we're asking them if they'd write it up [11:03] the faq and some debgging docs as well iirc [11:03] i.e. how to set up bootchart on thin clients to measure bootspeed === mariocesar_bo [n=Mario@201.222.112.26] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [11:03] \o/ [11:03] ah. the FAQ is now on help.ubuntu.com/community/EdubuntuFAQ. i won't be linked off main page cause of it's structure [11:03] ogra, I missed that, but a perfect recipe [11:04] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Recipes/PackageUpdate is an example [11:04] and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Recipes/Debdiff [11:04] this way we can stick to the procedure we decided at UDS: grab contributions and then collate into handbook in timely fashion before release [11:05] we might want to come up with a little list of desired recipes [11:05] just to get some things kicked off [11:05] yeah, we can capture the current handbook [11:06] a recipe could be *anything*, even what FLOSS means to education... [11:06] well, it will be anything the community is concerned enough to write about ;-) === pips1 smiles when he reads "For Bonus Points..." on the recipe [11:06] we might need to call it the cookbook again :) [11:07] yay [11:07] well, I can see having both, handbook being a reference doc [11:07] just kidding [11:07] and cookbook being, well, a cookbook [11:08] but recipes work well for both [11:08] the basic problem is we need content [11:08] it's really not so important how we get it [11:08] yeah, think handbook = dusty tome, and cookbook = dogeared and greasy binder [11:08] ++ [11:08] LaserJock, as Scotty so aptly poited out at UDS [11:08] we (edubuntu doc people) can turn content into the desired form [11:08] but we need content first [11:09] and I think it's best if that comes from the community [11:09] our procedure then jsut needs to have a recipre freeze with enough time to collate handbook [11:09] yep, or maybe not even that [11:10] we can do a recipe snapshot [11:10] and build static docs out of that [11:10] still need to dump into xml [11:10] especially if we end up doing some moin2docbook [11:10] LaserJock, are you positive that will work well enough? [11:10] nope === willvdl hears divided views [11:11] but it's better than nothing [11:11] I like the idea that people are encourage to write down *their* setup, rather than asking to write only about the "ideal" setup that never gets written...? [11:11] there is no "ideal" setup [11:11] in fact, to start with [11:11] *encouraged [11:11] the "Cookbook" could be a static doc on edubuntu.org that merely links to the wiki pages [11:12] hmm [11:12] hmm, help.u.com? [11:12] and Handbook writers can just look over recipes and copy-n-paste [11:12] well [11:12] LaserJock, cookbook may just as well link straight to wiki [11:12] when you say, "static doc", do you mean "merely a introductory sentence with navigational links"? [11:12] help.u.c doesn't have very good structure for handling Edubuntu [11:13] LaserJock, we'll change that in the meeting :) [11:13] noone can find kubuntu docs anymore either [11:13] willvdl: why not edubuntu.org? [11:13] I fail to see the point of having a website if we don't put anything on it ;-) [11:13] because there is already help.ubuntu.com... [11:14] fair enough :) [11:14] moot point [11:14] well, if we can have it on help.ubuntu.com that's fine [11:14] one thing at a time I guess [11:14] but I think we need to work on HTML and PDF versions of docs as well [11:14] ++ [11:14] our users are a tad different than the usual Ubuntu user I think in this regard [11:15] to summarise: === pips1 stands back and listens to the doc conversation [11:15] teachers/admins are going to want to go to edubuntu.org and download some PDF docs [11:15] it can be shipped in edubuntu-docs package too [11:15] yes, space permitting :-) [11:16] 2 cds dude [11:16] oh [11:16] right [11:16] summary: (i want to capture this on paper :) [11:17] FAQ on help.u.com/community for capturing FAQ style thingies [11:17] recipes on help.ubuntu.com/community for capturing Topics and Setups etc. === ompaul [n=ompaul@freenode/staff/gnewsense.ompaul] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [11:18] LTSP docs also go on wiki presumably in different section as they get linked from SErver section off main page [11:18]