[01:05] <Mithrandir> the relationship between https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/UIStyleGuide and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/UserInterface is the former is for all apps, while the latter is for the system as a whole, right?
[02:30] <ian_brasil> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/UIStyleGuide is just the guideline i think
[02:30] <ian_brasil> and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/UserInterface are some mock ups 
[02:35] <ian_brasil> I wonder why the top menu cannot be like Applications,Places,System on a vanilla gnome install...i wonder why the clock is in the middle for example
[02:35] <ian_brasil> on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/UIStyleGuide
[02:36] <ian_brasil> seems like a lot of space for a clock
[02:37] <ian_brasil> which could be used for something else (like IM messages and so on)
[03:02] <agoliveira> marciom: Grande Marcio Macedo! Adilson aqui.
[03:02] <marciom> agoliveira, hi :)
[04:22] <Mithrandir> ian_brasil: you're the Ian that mailed me earlier today?
[04:36] <ian_brasil> don't think so
[04:37] <Mithrandir> about developer docs
[04:37] <ian_brasil_> ah, pk...yes that is me
[04:37] <Mithrandir> great; I just sent you a reply.
[04:38] <Mithrandir> I have been told the developer docs for maemo are not good enough, but I'm not sure exactly where they are missing bits, so help in both figuring out where the holes are as well as filling them in is most appreciated.
[04:39] <ian_brasil_> the biggest problem has been the testing of the docs...somethings are tested on bora ..some on sardine and so on
[04:39] <Mithrandir> is that some sort of automated testing?
[04:39] <Mithrandir> maybe I'm slow, but I don't see how you really test developer docs.
[04:41] <ian_brasil_> i would think not but i am not familiar with the doc process inside nokia...there has also been the problem with the move to midgard chewing up some docs
[04:41] <Mithrandir> yeah, that's quite unfortunate.
[04:41] <ian_brasil_> there was the suggestion of using the wiki as some sort of doc incoming 
[04:41] <Mithrandir> it seems like there's an active effort to move the repos to gnome, so once that works out we should be able to put the maemo docs somewhere on gnome.org
[04:42] <Mithrandir> when you're talking about docs, are you talking about doxygen-like docs or higher level development guides?
[04:43] <ian_brasil_> things like http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/2-x/howto_customization.html with missing code  and http://maemo.org/community/wiki/HildonDesktopPortability which does not compile
[04:44] <Mithrandir> ah, so higher-level docs.
[04:44] <ian_brasil_> bugs have been submitted to bugzilla but i think nokia are still looking for a doc manager to bring it all together
[04:45] <Mithrandir> a wiki looks a bit like the wrong place for structured docs like that..
[04:45] <lool> Mithrandir: Doh, you're going to both the desktop architects meeting and debconf!
[04:45] <Mithrandir> lool: no, I'm not going to the DAM, I can't make it due to vacation next week
[04:46] <Mithrandir> I'd have loved to, but I can't tell my wife "no, we're not going to scotland after all"
[05:48] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: The last phrase tells me that you're married for some time already ;)
[09:28] <agoliveir1> Jeez... finally found the error with hildon-theme-slicer! Expect a hildon-theme-plankton package soon :)
[09:29] <tko> agoliveira: bugs in our code? unpossible :-P
[09:31] <agoliveira> tko: I'll save the sarcarsm for later ; ) but actually it's not a bug. The memory allocation changed on gtk recently (2.10 IIRC) so the template parser was trying to do some nasty things with slices alocated.
[09:32] <agoliveira> I think I nailed it (it actually ran alredy) but I have to be sure if there's more leaks than usual ;)
[09:32] <tko> agoliveira: well, we should've noticed since we are running 2.10, even including some stuff from trunk
[09:33] <tko> I was glancing through some of the code and couldn't spot anything obvious
[09:34] <agoliveira> tko: Well, I also found it weird but the problem happens in common.c. That g_free (key_file) crashes the slicer badly.
[09:36] <tko> note to self: slap MDK in the head with G_SLICE=debug-blocks :)
[09:37] <agoliveira> If you just comment it out it runs. God only knows what happens to the memory so far, of course as I didn't check it's state yet but at least I found the freacking spot.
[09:37] <tko> I did see a logical or vs. bitwise or bug in g_file_test in slicer
[09:38] <tko> good catch
[09:38] <agoliveira> I was starting to think the bug was on Gtk itself which send shivers down my spine :)
[09:40] <tko> having been the maintainer for our gtk I know what you mean...
[09:45] <lucasr> meeting in 5 minutes?
[09:45] <lucasr> oops 15 min.
[09:46] <tko> 1h 15min I think.. too lazy to check the world clock :)
[09:46] <agoliveira> Well, I'll grab a coffee, go to our weekly meeting and return to that later but a food for tought: none of the few examples I found using g_key_file_new() actually freed the pointer later so either it's bad examples or soething fishy is going on :)
[09:46] <agoliveira> lucasr: 1:15
[09:47] <tko> it's like /* error handling omitted for brevity */
[09:47] <tko> lucasr: at least I got ebassi to include the convenient world time link in gtk team meeting announcement :)
[09:47] <lucasr> hmm, I always get confused
[09:47] <lucasr> tko, it was ery useful actually :-)
[09:47] <ian_brasil_> ola lucasr...i had some problem installing maemo gtk following your tutorial :(
[09:48] <lucasr> ian_brasil, blame tko!
[09:48] <ian_brasil_> ha ha
[09:48] <lucasr> ian_brasil, what was it?
[09:48] <ian_brasil_> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1519
[09:48] <tko> lucasr: hey, no fair, I haven't touched your tutorial.. :)
[09:49] <ian_brasil_> i think it has to do with trying to make C become an OO language
[09:49] <tko> oh, it needs maemo glib
[09:49] <lucasr> tko, hmmm, I forgot to add the glib bits to the tutorial
[09:50] <tko> lucasr: grrrr
[09:50] <tko> the 'constructed' thing is something backported from gtk/glib trunk
[09:50] <lucasr> ian_brasil, install https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/trunk/glib
[09:50] <agoliveira> ian_brasil_: Why do that to such a beautifull language. Let C++ spoil it! :)
[09:51] <ian_brasil_> can I add the glib bits to the tutorial and do a rewrite ?
[09:52] <lucasr> ian_brasil, yes, please
[09:52] <lucasr> ian_brasil, add a note like "Shame on tko!"
[09:52] <ian_brasil_> ha ha...my pleasure
[09:54] <lucasr> ian_brasil_, brasileiro ou morando no Brasil?
[09:54] <ian_brasil_> morou em Manaus mas sou ingles
[09:54] <lucasr> ian_brasil_, do indt?
[09:54] <agoliveira> ian_brasil_: From england to Manaus. That's a hell of a change!
[09:55] <lucasr> agoliveira, from Bahia to Helsinki is much worse
[09:55] <lucasr> :-)
[09:55] <ian_brasil_> ainda nao mas logo vou trampar la eu acho
[09:55] <vivijim> lucasr: e voc?
[09:55] <lucasr> ian_brasil_, :-)
[09:56] <lucasr> vivijim, eu o que?
[09:56] <ian_brasil_> agoliveira: its a bit warmer, thank god
[09:57] <agoliveira> lucasr: I guess so. My parents came from Bahia and I still have many relatives there.
[09:57] <lucasr> agoliveira, :-)
[09:58] <vivijim> lucasr: brazileiro? trabalha onde? canonical? 
[09:58] <agoliveira> Oops.. meeting time
[09:58] <lucasr> vivijim, brasileiro. Nokia.
[09:59] <lucasr> jobi!
[09:59] <jobi> lucas!
[09:59] <jobi> hope you are not concepting ;)
[09:59] <vivijim> lucasr: nice. I'm from INdT working in mamona project...
[09:59] <lucasr> jobi, who won in that Wii match?
[10:00] <lucasr> jobi, of course I am
[10:00] <lucasr> :-)
[10:00] <lucasr> vivijim, cool. How is Mamona going btw?
[10:00] <jobi> lucasr: we had France vs Spain tonight and we won
[10:01] <lucasr> jobi, did you use your head to hit the oponent's chest?
[10:01] <lucasr> jobi, oh, that was against Italy
[10:01] <lucasr> :-P
[10:01] <lucasr> jobi, never mind
[10:01] <jobi> didn't have to use this trick
[10:01] <vivijim> lucasr: we already have some base packages. It is already possible to use a debootstrap script to install and run a chroot all over a qemu user mode emulation... At this time I'm trying to build a lot of packages including the osso's one...
[10:02] <lucasr> vivijim, cool
[10:02] <lucasr> vivijim, nice to know that Mamona is going forward
[10:03] <lucasr> vivijim, you should communicate your progress more often
[10:03] <ian_brasil_> Mamona is cool...my deb installed fine in it
[10:03] <lucasr> vivijim, at least in planet.maemo.org
[10:03] <jonnylamb> Or on the mailing list too :)
[10:03] <vivijim> lucasr: thanks. yes, I need to include my blog at planet maemo.. I always forget...
[10:05] <lucasr> vivijim, please do :-)
[10:05] <vivijim> I'm following this ubuntu-mobile community because I believe that the idea of this project is so close to mamona's idea... and I believe that we can join efforts...
[10:05] <vivijim> lucasr: I will :)
[10:05] <lucasr> vivijim, well, I guess mamona seems to be more Maemo specific
[10:06] <lucasr> vivijim, but of course there are some overlaps
[10:06] <lucasr> vivijim, specialy in the part of providing free alternatives to the some proprietary UI components and applications
[10:07] <vivijim> yes, these parts that I'm talking about...
[10:08] <lucasr> mdz_!
[10:08] <lucasr> :-)
[10:08] <mdz_> hello
[10:08] <Mithrandir> hiya mdz
[10:14] <ian_brasil_> lucasr: how do install glib then?..checkout the svn and then what?
[10:16] <lucasr> ian_brasil, the good&old "./configure --prefix=YOUR_PREFIX && make && make install"
[10:18] <ian_brasil_> mm, thats what i thought..but there is no configure only configure.in which needs root permissions
[10:18] <tko> autogen.sh
[10:18] <jobi> tko!
[10:19] <tko> !
[10:19] <ian_brasil_> tkp: thx
[10:19] <tko> jobi: now that you're around... what's the deal with 'nocomposite' revisions?
[10:20] <jobi> tko: they have the build-dep on libxcomposite-dev and libxdamage-dev removed
[10:20] <tko> (cia is nice...)
[10:21] <Mithrandir> why do you do that?  To save space on the rootfs?
[10:21] <tko> jobi: and why?
[10:21] <jobi> tko: waiting for the X with composite to go in
[10:21] <tko> nngh.. should've guessed
[10:22] <jobi> tko: anyway it would work even with the composite stuff compiled in, but if you use an out of the shelf Xephyr the composite is too old, and the applets are clipped
[10:22] <tko> so the usual story.. fixed dozens of bugs, but now the colors are a bit off -> rejected
[10:23] <jobi> tko: well in that case, the new X breaks video playback :)
[10:24] <tko> you can't make an omelet without breaking something :)
[10:25] <jobi> that's what i always tell them :)
[10:32] <ian_brasil_> lucasr: I installed glib from svn but the maemo gtk gave an error configure: error:
[10:32] <ian_brasil_> *** GLIB 2.12.0 or better is required. The latest version of
[10:32] <ian_brasil_> *** GLIB is always available from ftp://ftp.gtk.org/pub/gtk/.
[10:33] <tim__> good evening
[10:33] <bastian> good afternoon :-)
[10:33] <tim__> at least in germany : )
[10:33] <tko> ian_brasil: which url you used to check out glib?
[10:33] <lucasr> ian_brasil_, probably something with your PKGCONFIG_PATH
[10:34] <bastian> oregon, US :-)
[10:34] <Mithrandir> PKG_CONFIG_PATH, not PKGCONFIG_PATH
[10:34] <tko> lucasr: doesn't jhbuild update it automagically?
[10:34] <tim__> I guess this is the room where the 2100UTC meeting will happen?
[10:34] <Mithrandir> tim__: yes
[10:34] <lucasr> tko, what do you mean?
[10:34] <tim__> cool, thanks
[10:35] <lucasr> Mithrandir, yes, yes
[10:35] <tko> lucasr: I mean that with jhbuild you shouldn't need to update it manually provided that you've installed the dependencies in the same prefix
[10:35] <ian_brasil_> tko:https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/trunk/glib
[10:36] <tko> ian_brasil_: must be pkgconfig then.. config.log should have more details
[10:37] <jobi> ian_brasil_: did you specify a --prefix when installing glib? if not it will get installed in /usr/local and you will need to run something like PKG_CONFIG_PATH=/usr/local/lib/pkgconfig ./configure
[10:37] <Mithrandir> pkg-config in ubuntu looks in /usr/local/lib/pkgconfig by default, btw.
[10:37] <ian_brasil_> i installed to /opt/maemo
[10:37] <lucasr> ian_brasil_, see the first steps in "Manual process" section
[10:38] <lucasr> ian_brasil_, "export PKG_CONFIG_PATH=/opt/maemo/lib/pkgconfig:/usr/lib/pkgconfig"
[10:38] <ian_brasil_> i ran both commands before building
[10:38] <lucasr> ian_brasil_, "export PKG_CONFIG_PATH=/opt/maemo/lib/pkgconfig:$PKG_CONFIG_PATH" would be better :-)
[10:39] <Mithrandir> lucasr: no need to include /usr/lib/pkgconfig there; _PATH adds to the list, PKG_CONFIG_LIBDIR overrides it
[10:41] <lucasr> Mithrandir, good catch
[10:44] <ian_brasil_> still no joy... 'pkg-config --modversion glib-2.0' returned 2.12.12, but GLIB (2.12.11)
[10:44] <ian_brasil_> *** was found! 
[10:45] <tko> ian_brasil_: you also need to update LD_LIBRARY_PATH
[10:46] <Mithrandir> lucasr: I maintain it, I should know it. :-P
[10:47] <lucasr> Mithrandir, :-)
[10:48] <ian_brasil_> like this? export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/opt/maemo:$LD_LIBRARY_PATH  ??
[10:49] <jonnylamb> Or one can add the lib path to /etc/ld.so.conf, and run ldconfig.
[10:50] <jobi> LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/opt/maemo/lib:$LD_LIBRARY_PATH
[10:50] <Mithrandir> ian_brasil_: might be better to override PKG_CONFIG_LIBDIR instead.
[10:52] <ian_brasil_> cool...maemo gtk buils...thx and i will write this up soon
[10:53] <Mithrandir> ian_brasil_: great; feel free to add links to a howto or similar to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded
[10:54] <ian_brasil> ok i will do that
[10:58] <mubelacker> thanks too i had the same problem no HildonDesktop outside the scratchbox and now it works 
[10:59] <Mithrandir> good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen
[10:59] <Mithrandir> agoliveira: you're here, right?
[11:00] <agoliveira> Yep
[11:00] <Mithrandir> great.
[11:00] <Mithrandir> bspencer_: do you know of anybody missing from your side?
[11:01] <bspencer_> checking...
[11:01] <bspencer_> rusty -- ?
[11:01] <agoliveira> just in
[11:01] <Mithrandir> tata. :-) ; a successful summoning.
[11:01] <rusty_> hello all
[11:01] <bspencer_> :)
[11:01] <bspencer_> waldo bastian
[11:01] <tim__> hi
[11:02] <bastian> hi :-)
[11:02] <bspencer_> ah, we are good then,.
[11:02] <tshureih> Hola everyone
[11:02] <robr> hi
[11:02] <Mithrandir> should we start with a small presentation of who everybody is?  I believe there are community members here who have no idea who everybody is. :-)
[11:03] <bspencer_> I can introduce intel guys together
[11:03] <bspencer_> rusty_,   Intel architect lead,   bspencer, Bob spencer -- Apps / UI arch.    robr  -- Intel kernel
[11:03] <bspencer_> waldo bastian -- Intel graphics guy
[11:03] <bspencer_> tshureih -- Intel engineering / power guy

[11:04] <bastian> video, not graphics :-)
[11:04] <agoliveira> Hi all. Adilson Oliveira here, with Tollef working on the Ubuntu Mobile and Embedded project for Canonical
[11:04] <Mithrandir> any community people who want to tell who they are too?
[11:05] <agoliveira> There's some Nokia dudes here as well ;)
[11:05] <chippy> Hi All. Steve / Chippy from UMPCportal. Watching like a hawk! 
[11:05] <tim__> Hi All. Tim Lawrenz, currently developing for plazes.com, hoping to be able to contribute somehow
[11:06] <Mithrandir> it seemed like nobody had anything to add to the agenda; any late additions?
[11:07] <robr> what was the agenda?
[11:07] <Mithrandir> great to see a community interest here; we want you to feel welcome so if there's anything we can help you out with, tell us.
[11:07] <Mithrandir> * Current status - Hildon in Ubuntu proper - Specs
[11:07] <Mithrandir> * Plans for the Desktop Architechts Meeting in Mountain View next week.
[11:07] <tim__> * Current status
[11:07] <tim__>  - Hildon in Ubuntu proper
[11:07] <tim__>  - Specs
[11:07] <tim__> * Plans for the Desktop Architechts Meeting in Mountain View next
[11:07] <tim__>  week.
[11:07] <Mithrandir> irssi mangled that, but tim__'s paste came well through.
[11:08] <Mithrandir> so, first item, Hildon in Ubuntu proper, which is mine.
[11:08] <robr> thanks
[11:08] <Mithrandir> we are proceeding at a good pace, bzr contains the bits needed to build hildon-desktop, but uploads have been blocked on me having entirely too much to do with coordinating everything.
[11:08] <Mithrandir> I'm hoping we can have the bits in by the time western US wakes up tomorrow.
[11:09] <rusty_> sweet
[11:09] <bspencer_>  rusty_  gets up at 4am
[11:09] <Mithrandir> agoliveira has been working on getting the theme bits done; there was some "interesting" memory problems there, but he has worked around them, I believe.
[11:09] <Mithrandir> agoliveira: can you confirm that I'm correct in the above?
[11:10] <agoliveira> I have being working on the support files like themes and stomp into a nasty bug on theme-tools. I found the problem, looking how to fix it the right way.
[11:10] <bspencer_> agoliveira, have you seen the desktop, or is that pending the theme bugs?
[11:10] <bspencer_> meaning, can we boot to a desktop UI?
[11:10] <agoliveira> It's pending the themes yet.
[11:10] <agoliveira> Booting the desktop will come only after I fix it all upb ut it won't take long I guess.
[11:11] <agoliveira> I hope we can do that together next week ;)
[11:11] <bspencer_> looking forward to that.
[11:11] <Mithrandir> so getting there, but not there yet.
[11:12] <agoliveira> BTW, the plankton theme should be working. The problem is in the theme-tools that are used to build the themes.
[11:12] <agoliveira> After a Q&D hack I was able to build the theme just fine
[11:12] <Mithrandir> agoliveira: good work
[11:13] <agoliveira> Bitte!
[11:13] <rusty_> does getting the desktop up depend on osso-gwconnect?
[11:13] <Mithrandir> rusty_: osso-gwconnect is in gutsy.
[11:13] <agoliveira> rusty_: not really.
[11:13] <Mithrandir> we're going to get rid of it, I really, really hope, but for now it's there.
[11:13] <bspencer_> osso-gwconnect was the bluez stuff?
[11:13] <agoliveira> Yep.
[11:14] <agoliveira> Actually we need to replace it for bluez interface
[11:14] <Mithrandir> but bluez now ships its own dbus interface.
[11:14] <rusty_> agoliveira, by saying "it's in gutsy", you mean the package is in the universe repository?
[11:14] <Mithrandir> rusty_: yes.
[11:14] <agoliveira> yes
[11:14] <rusty_> hmm... maybe i need to update
[11:15] <Mithrandir> as of yesterday, iirc
[11:15] <Mithrandir> osso-gwconnect | 1.0.10ubuntu3 | gutsy/universe | source, amd64, i386, ia64, powerpc, sparc
[11:15] <agoliveira> Next week I'll have a few CDs with gutsy so we can prepare an enviromment for you.
[11:15] <agoliveira> Actually, they are right here in front of me ;)
[11:15] <Mithrandir> anybody got any more questions about hildon in Ubuntu?
[11:16] <bspencer_> agoliveira, we (Intel) also have a couple of PRC engineers who are eager to help.  If there is something hildon-related you have put on the side they would be pleased to chew at it.
[11:16] <Mithrandir> PRC = ?
[11:16] <bspencer_> China
[11:16] <bspencer_> People's Republic :)
[11:16] <Mithrandir> yup, just wondering if it meant something else in intel-lingo. :-)
[11:16] <bspencer_> horace is there, he introduced himself yesterday
[11:16] <agoliveira> bspencer_: Certanly there will be a zillion things to work out as soon as we start to boot the beast.
[11:16] <lucasr> hmm, has the meeting started?
[11:16] <bspencer_> yes, just fyi.
[11:16] <Mithrandir> lucasr: 16 minutes ago
[11:17] <agoliveira> bspencer_: Yes, I've being in contact with him already.
[11:17] <bspencer_> agoliveira, I know.  
[11:17] <bastian> mith: bob didn't send you the Intel acronym dictionary? :-)
[11:17] <Mithrandir> bastian: I think the postal service refused to deliver it due to excessive weight. ;-)
[11:17] <lucasr> Mithrandir, k
[11:18] <bspencer_> nothing else wrt hildon from my end.
[11:18] <Mithrandir> ok, so next item is specs.
[11:18] <bspencer_> (but I thought of another agenda item for the end...  gnome mobile stuff.)
[11:18] <Mithrandir> bspencer_: happy to tag it on.
[11:18] <Mithrandir> we are currently a fair bit behind with specs and getting them written and approved.
[11:19] <Mithrandir> I'm not sure if it makes any kind of sense to go through them one by one?
[11:19] <bspencer_> how fast can you list them all?
[11:19] <bspencer_> or the url
[11:19] <Mithrandir> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mobile/
[11:20] <bspencer_> the goal is to get to "approved" ?  Or more?
[11:20] <Mithrandir> approved for the design, implemented for the delivery.
[11:20] <Mithrandir> I'm happy to help with review and such if you're unsure about what should go into the specs.
[11:21] <bspencer_> not that
[11:21] <bspencer_> just priorities.  
[11:21] <bspencer_> I'll work on those I own before Monday
[11:22] <bspencer_> is the "Drafter" the creator ?
[11:22] <bspencer_> some don't have "Assignees"
[11:22] <bastian> what's still missing for the hw-decode one?
[11:22] <Mithrandir> so, whoever registered it is listed in the "Lifecycle" portlet on the left
[11:23] <Mithrandir> let's take https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/mobile-hw-decode as an example.
[11:23] <Mithrandir> so Charlie Johnson registered mobile-hw-decode.  He is the assignee, who is responsible for implementing it.
[11:23] <Mithrandir> he is also the drafter, who is responsible for actually writing the specification and getting it approved.  Once it's approved, his job is done.
[11:24] <Mithrandir> the approver is the person (or group) who says "this is what we want and this spec is complete".  That person or group moves it from "Pending approval" to "Approved"
[11:24] <Mithrandir> once it's approved, it can be implemented.
[11:25] <bastian> so Charlie is also the approver? :-)
[11:25] <rusty_> in this case, who does Charlie request to approve the spec?
[11:25] <Mithrandir> it would probably be best to ask me, since I've been through the process a few times.
[11:25] <Mithrandir> if it's not complete or has inconsistencies or other problems, it gets dumped back to drafting.
[11:26] <Mithrandir> it's normal for specs to go through a couple of rounds before they are approved, so don't get disappointed if something is pointed out as "this needs more work", "this is unclear", etc.
[11:27] <Mithrandir> bastian: as for hw-decode, it lacks use-cases, which should be trivial to add.  What assumptions are it based on?  (That hardware will support HW decode, maybe something in the software stack or another spec)  The API definition should probably be moved to the implementation section.
[11:27] <rusty_> well... i need to just sit down tonight and fill out the imagecreation blueprint
[11:28] <Mithrandir> bastian: also, it has unused sections like UI changes, code changes which should either be filled in, or removed.
[11:29] <Mithrandir> the idea is for an approved spec that "anybody", as in, a technically competent person who knows the surrounding bits should be able to implement it.
[11:29] <rusty_> is there a template or minimal list of categories that need to be filled out?
[11:29] <Mithrandir> in some cases, this is provably not true (my build-infrastructure spec is a good example, it ends with "Tell Adam to bootstrap") which can be fine.
[11:30] <bastian> once we think it's ok, how do we request approval review?
[11:30] <Mithrandir> change the status to "pending approval"
[11:31] <Mithrandir> (at developer summits, we have reviewers who check specs for consistency and language, but we'll skip that step now and hope my command of the English language is good enough)
[11:32] <Mithrandir> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/mobile-hw-decode -> Actions portlet -> Change status, then change it there.
[11:34] <Mithrandir> if people understand the process, I have a small question about the relationship of two of the specs.
[11:34] <Mithrandir> mobile-ui and mobile-ui-style-guide; what's the relationship there?
[11:34] <bspencer_> mobile-ui is the actual MID desktop UI implementation
[11:34] <bspencer_> the other was a guide for applications and look-n-feel stuff.  
[11:34] <bspencer_> maybe that isn't a spec
[11:35] <Mithrandir> it might be an informational one, which does not have an implementation.
[11:35] <bspencer_> right.  that is the intent.
[11:35] <Mithrandir> and it's marked as one, which makes sense.
[11:35] <bspencer_> there is no implementation for the guide.  Let me know if it should be placed elsewhere
[11:35] <Mithrandir> no, that's fine, I was just wondering since I thought that was the distinction between them, but wasn't sure.
[11:36] <bspencer_> If others started creating applications for MIDs I wanted a single place that helped describe the general user interface  (this is dependent on the implementation of the desktop UI of course)
[11:37] <Mithrandir> of course, but having specs depending on other specs is fine
[11:37] <Mithrandir> and you can mark them as such in LP too
[11:37] <bspencer_> well, it doesn't depend on the implementation being finished, but if the desktop UI changed something big in the style or navigation, then I would update this.  
[11:39] <Mithrandir> makes sense.
[11:39] <Mithrandir> anybody else got any questions about specs?
[11:39] <rusty_> yea
[11:40] <rusty_> if we have a mostly empty spec and need to fill it out...
[11:40] <rusty_> where to we go for guidance on what is expected?
[11:40] <rusty_> like a template or something?
[11:40] <Mithrandir> there's a SpecTemplate on the wiki
[11:40] <rusty_> ok
[11:40] <Mithrandir> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/SpecTemplate
[11:41] <rusty_> ok, i'm good
[11:41] <Mithrandir> also, looking at other approved specs might work, though be a bit critical and try to look at more than just one to get a feel for the style.
[11:42] <agoliveira> rusty_: "no, you're not", says a little female voice in the back :)
[11:42] <rusty_> :->
[11:42] <Mithrandir> ok, let's move on to plans for the DAM next week.
[11:43] <agoliveira> Ok
[11:43] <Mithrandir> my absolute main goal for the sprint is enabling you (intel guys) to be move productive and have the tools you need to develop your bits.
[11:44] <bspencer_> that sounds great
[11:45] <Mithrandir> this, combined with having something showing at least a basic hildon desktop should make it possible for you to actually do your work.
[11:46] <kwwii> has the themeing part already been packaged and put on launchpad?
[11:46] <agoliveira> Despite I'm still quite crude on that yet, I'll be there to help in any way I can.
[11:46] <agoliveira> kwwii: Not yet;
[11:47] <robr> i'm actually looking to meet up w/ your kernel developer Kyle McMartin and go over the details of what you need for the kernel patches to enable Menlow hw
[11:47] <agoliveira> kwwii: but it's almost there.
[11:47] <Mithrandir> Kyle McMartin from our kernel team is also going to be there, he knows packaging well too.
[11:47] <kwwii> agoliveira: cool, I'll watch out for that then
[11:49] <Mithrandir> I'm sorry I can't be there, but I had scheduled vacation long before.
[11:49] <Mithrandir> my second goal for the sprint is having more specs completed.  Ideally, all of them, but I doubt that is feasible.  mdz is going to be there and help with specs (in addition to anything else that pops up); he knows the process very well and has been doing this for a long time.
[11:51] <lucasr> Mithrandir, agoliveira, have you got to run Hildon Desktop nicely?
[11:51] <rusty_> beyond Monday and Tues, who will be sticking around for the linux foundation stuff?
[11:51] <agoliveira> lucasr: Not yet, we are first putting everything into gutsy. We should try this next week.
[11:51] <lucasr> agoliveira, k
[11:52] <bspencer_> I'm there Mon-Thursday.  Leave Thu night.
[11:52] <agoliveira> rusty_: I will be there all week. Just a warning: due to my flight schedule, I won't be there for the openning at 8:30am monday. I should arrive there about 10:30am.
[11:52] <Mithrandir> rusty_: I believe all of our staff is, but I'm not sure.
[11:52] <kwwii> I'll be there all week as well
[11:52] <rusty_> will you guys be pretty busy with non-mobile stuff?
[11:53] <Mithrandir> no, the idea is for our guys to concentrate on mobile
[11:53] <agoliveira> Not me. mobile is my priority.
[11:53] <rusty_> for the entire week then
[11:53] <kwwii> yepp
[11:53] <Mithrandir> I suspect mdz might be busy with non-mobile stuff too, so you should grab him as much as possible for the first two days.
[11:53] <agoliveira> Yep
[11:53] <agoliveira> mzd will do a talk IIRC
[11:53] <Mithrandir> but he would be a better person to ask than I guessing what he is going to do or not.
[11:54] <rusty_> having spent a way too much time doing OSDL activities in the past... i really only wanted to work on mobile related stuff.  I could care less about attending the actual desktop summit 
[11:55] <Mithrandir> yes, I think you should be able to just sneak off a room somewhere and sit there and work quietly.
[11:55] <bspencer_> I'm just there for the food
[11:55] <Mithrandir> haha :-)
[11:55] <kwwii> lol
[11:55] <agoliveira> :D
[11:55] <Mithrandir> I gained a couple of kgs from a week at google's last autumn..
[11:55] <rusty_> BTW, you guys want to go out for dinner on Monday?
[11:55] <Mithrandir> which is fairly insane
[11:55] <agoliveira> rusty_: I'm all for it.
[11:56] <kwwii> rusty_:  sounds good
[11:56] <bspencer_> quick question about gnome-mobile stuff :)
[11:56] <agoliveira> If I can stay awake after drop directly from the plane, of course.
[11:56] <rusty_> we should pick something good... my boss just gave me the ok to pick up the tab :->
[11:56] <bspencer_> there are a few components in the stack and I'm not sure who is in charge of them
[11:56] <bspencer_> for example:  gconf w/dbus, gtk version that owrks, etc.
[11:56] <bspencer_> is that my job, or where is this being tracked?
[11:56] <Mithrandir> bspencer_: in general, the Ubuntu desktop team.
[11:57] <Mithrandir> or kernel team or whoever is responsible for the piece of infrastructure.
[11:57] <bspencer_> ok -- is there a ubuntu mobile desktop guy?
[11:57] <bspencer_> let's say, gconf w/dbus
[11:57] <Mithrandir> to the largest extent possible, we want the patches to work in the normal distro too.
[11:57] <bspencer_> right, so I want to look at each piece and make sure that happens
[11:57] <bspencer_> and who needs to add a patch or rework a patch to get it upstream
[11:57] <bspencer_> etc.
[11:57] <Mithrandir> so talking to dholbach and seb128 (Daniel Holbach, Sebastien Bastier, with lots of accents) would be good start.
[11:58] <Mithrandir> ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com or those two people on IRC would be good.
[11:58] <Mithrandir> I'll be happy to introduce you so they don't get confused about why you are requesting what you are.
[11:58] <bspencer_> ok.  I'll add the list of issues I know of to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/GnomeComponents 
[11:58] <Mithrandir> sounds good.
[11:59] <tim__> I have to leave! thanks to everybody...
[11:59] <Mithrandir> see you, tim__ 
[11:59] <bspencer_> is this a weekly meeting?
[11:59] <agoliveira> seb128 have being doing some work on gtk for us already
[11:59] <Mithrandir> I was planning on it being a weekly meeting, yes.
[11:59] <Mithrandir> good to keep in touch, since the time zone difference makes that hard.
[12:00] <Mithrandir> I guess we'll skip it next week since you'll then be in MTV and I'll be on vacation, but in two week's time?
[12:00] <agoliveira> I can help doing the bridge if necessary as I'm mor or less in the middle;
[12:01] <bastian> bob: who owns the ubuntu mediaplayer spec, cathy?
[12:01] <bspencer_> two weeks is good.  We can post our status next Thursday to the mailing list for those not in CA
[12:01] <Mithrandir> bspencer_: unless you think weekly is too often?  I was thinking of having them a bit earlier most of the time, since it's now midnight for me.
[12:01] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Aren't you going to be in some event in 2 weeks?
[12:01] <Mithrandir> agoliveira: I'm going to be at debconf => lots of connectivity.
[12:01] <bspencer_> bastian, me
[12:01] <agoliveira> Ok
[12:02] <bspencer_> bastian, cathy's team is implementing it, but I'll help with the specs, if that is what you are asking.
[12:02] <bspencer_> Mithrandir, I'm open to either 
[12:02] <rusty_> i'm open to moving around this meeting time to accommodate people in various locations
[12:03] <Mithrandir> we have taken to moving the distro team meetings between 1500 UTC and 2000 UTC (with adjustment for northern-hemisphere DST), so always having this meeting afterwards should work for me.
[12:03] <bastian> bspencer: ah, ok, i was thinking about hw decode testing, that will need the media player & associated codecs, since it's unlikely that we have any other (test)player that we can release
[12:04] <bspencer_> Mithrandir, let's do one in two weeks, then decide if it should be weekly.
[12:04] <Mithrandir> bspencer_: sounds like a plan.
[12:04] <Mithrandir> does anybody have any other business?
[12:04] <agoliveira> Just one question:
[12:04] <agoliveira> How's the hardware doing?
[12:04] <rusty_> not me... and i'll be hanging around (off an on with connectivity)
[12:05] <rusty_> fine
[12:05] <rusty_> :->
[12:05] <bspencer_> agoliveira, things are moving along at variable rates but I've seen some cool looking prototype systems.
[12:05] <ian_brasil> there will be an agenda page for the next meeting?
[12:05] <agoliveira> Cool.
[12:05] <Mithrandir> ian_brasil: yes, and a bit more warning than six hours.
[12:05] <robr> more or less the normal HW development cycle
[12:05] <rusty_> so... the current production hardware that we plan on using (before Menlow) is now shipping
[12:05] <bspencer_> i'm encouraged that /some ODM/ will create a very nifty device.
[12:06] <bspencer_> We are planning to use the Q1 ultra as a sample device internally for getting things running
[12:06] <bastian> http://techreport.com/onearticle.x/12624
[12:06] <bspencer_> s/Q1 ultra/Samsung Q1 ultra/
[12:06] <robr> i saw a cool ODM prototype menlow system today in the lab
[12:07] <Mithrandir> feel free to send any cute hardware in my direction. ;-)
[12:07] <bspencer_> just need a little bigger pant pockets 
[12:08] <agoliveira> I have a N770 and a Palm TX. Can't be worse.
[12:08] <bspencer_> are they rubber-banded together?  
[12:08] <bspencer_> ;)
[12:08] <agoliveira> :)
[12:08] <Mithrandir> ok, any more business, then?
[12:08] <agoliveira> Nope.
[12:08] <bspencer_> I'm good
[12:08] <bspencer_> (no comment needed)
[12:09] <agoliveira> :-D
[12:09] <Mithrandir> see you around later, then; meeting adjourned.
[12:09] <bastian> thanks Mit
[12:09] <lucasr> Mithrandir, just a note: you will probably need to write plugins
[12:09] <Mithrandir> I'll send minutes to the mobile list after eight hours or so of sleep.
[12:09] <Mithrandir> lucasr: ECONTEXT?
[12:09] <Mithrandir> as in, plugins for what?
[12:09] <ian_brasil> well hosted Mithrandir
[12:09] <Mithrandir> cheers. :-)
[12:10] <agoliveira> Bye all and thanks for attending. I *reallY need a break.
[12:10] <mubelacker> thanks, and have a good night 
[12:10] <lucasr> Mithrandir, :-)
[12:10] <lucasr> Mithrandir, a good reference: http://maemo.org/community/wiki/hildondesktoppluginhowto
[12:10] <Mithrandir> lucasr: ah, great.  I'll read that after some sleep.
[12:11] <Mithrandir> see you guys around tomorrow.
[12:11] <lucasr> night all
[12:11] <ian_brasil> tchau