/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2007/06/10/#upstart.txt

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Keybuk#6  0x0804b322 in test_source_reload () at tests/test_conf.c:28804:22
Keybuk288             TEST_EQ_P (item->job, job);04:23
Keybuk(gdb) p job04:23
Keybuk$1 = (Job *) 0x004:23
Keybuk(gdb) p item->job04:23
Keybuk$2 = (Job *) 0x806c8b004:23
Keybuk(gdb) p item->job->name04:23
Keybuk$3 = 0x806c9c8 "tmp/test_conf.c-test_source_reload-213-12871/foo"04:23
Keybukheh04:23
Keybukoops04:23
AlexExtremeheh :p04:23
=== mbiebl [n=michael@e180072196.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #upstart
Keybukhey Michael04:47
mbieblKeybuk: hi04:51
Keybukhow goes it?04:56
mbieblFine, thanks.04:58
mbieblHow about you?04:59
Keybuknot so bad04:59
Keybukmaking an attack on the new conf code today04:59
mbieblMade a pull today and noticed that you were quite active the last couple of days ;-)05:00
Keybukyeah, beware that the current code isn't actually working05:00
Keybukie. not finished05:00
mbieblWhat's your aimed release date for 0.3.9?05:03
Keybukno idea05:03
Keybuksoon05:03
Keybukonce the new conf code is working05:03
mbieblDoes that also involve a change in the directory layout?05:04
Keybukmaybe05:04
Keybukif I carry that, I'll renumber it to 0.405:04
Keybuk/etc/event.d will become /etc/init/jobs.d at some point05:05
Keybukbut I may hold off and just use the new code to do /etc/event.d for now05:05
Keybuk(or even sneakily support both)05:05
mbieblI'm currently preparing for Debconf (will be flying there on saturday)05:09
Keybukcool05:09
KeybukEdinburgh is a very pretty city05:09
mbieblHopefully I'll be able to convice the fellow DDs, which are so keen on the meta-init-script format, that it's imho not such a great idea. 05:09
Keybukmeta-init-script?05:10
mbieblThere was some blogging and discussion a month ago about a meta-init-script format.05:10
mbieblFrom which initscript for the existing init systems should be generated.05:11
mbieblhttp://blog.incase.de/index.php/2007/04/17/init-script-generators/05:13
mbieblI'm pretty sure, such a system will not work.05:14
mbieblWe would end up with something that would be even worse than we have today with sysvinit.05:14
ion_*shiver*05:14
mbieblimo a initsystem is something important like the package format of a distro.05:15
AlexExtremefedora came up with a similar idea on their mailing list, i don't know what happened to it though, but instead of having a script generator they would simply provide a script in packages for most init systems. ugh05:16
mbieblThat's a maintenance night mare.05:16
AlexExtremeyep05:16
mbieblEven the metascript idea is not much better there, because the testing will be a nightmare.05:16
AlexExtremethat's exactly what i was thinking as i read the thread05:16
KeybukFedora are being odd05:18
Keybukcblizzard's post seems to think that starting things when you need them is a revelation05:18
=== Keybuk knows for a fact that he was sitting in my LCA Upstart talk
mbieblAnd D-Bus all the way ;-)05:18
Keybukdbus people still seem to think that system services are the way forward05:19
Keybuk"We have this great hammer ... I know this looks like a job for a screwdriver, but it works if we hit it hard enough with the hammer too!"05:19
AlexExtremeheh :)05:20
ion_Lets replace IRC with D-Bus.05:20
mbieblI also think that this whole D-Bus system service activation is crazy.05:20
mbieblUnfortunately the HAL guys are not much better in that respect.05:21
mbieblAs much as I value what HAL brought for the Linux desktop,05:21
mbieblcramming everything into HAL, power management, disk formattting (shrug) etc, seems insane.05:22
mbiebl(at least to me)05:22
Keybukthey're not quite into HAL05:23
Keybukthey sit alongside it, exposing themselves as HAL methods05:23
Keybukthat makes some amount of sense05:23
Keybukthe alternative is something like network-manager, which is its own daemon, with own communication properties, etc.05:23
Keybukusing HAL for the communication actually makes it easier05:24
Keybuknetwork-manager could be a hal add-on that implements "change essid" type properties on network interfaces05:24
Keybukwhich would make programming easier05:24
Keybukthe separation is about the same, since the communication is still dbus, and the daemon is still separate05:24
Keybukyou're just using a particular kind of dbus call (HAL methods)05:24
mbieblWell, if you make NM a HAL addon, you also lose some good features:05:25
mbieblThe ability to start/stop it on its own.05:25
mbieblseparate logging05:26
mbieblclear separation, so systems which don't use it, don't have to install it.05:26
Keybukhal addons are seperate daemons, so they can be start/stop'd on their own, etc.05:27
mbieblReally? Don't they have to be spawned from the hald process?05:28
mbieblAnd the standard service management tools will not work with hal addons.05:29
Keybuknot sure whether they have to be or not05:30
KeybukI think the communication is just dbus, so they don't need to be05:30
KeybukICBW05:30
mbieblDoesn't matter. It's just me, rambling a bit ;-)05:31
mbieblOT: Did you read this story: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19088976?GT1=1005605:40
mbieblI really had to smile05:40
ion_Hehe05:42
AlexExtremeheh05:42
ion_In case someone didnt notice this one, ill rudely spam it again. http://heh.fi/tmp/saukonpuisto-panorama05:47
mbieblcool. would make a perfect wallpaper for a 4-monitor xinerama setup ;-)05:51
mbieblbbl05:51
AlexExtremenice05:51
=== Keybuk has patches to nautilus/compiz to make paranoma wallpapers work across multiple viewports
ion_Do you make nautilus create a transparent background and compiz render the background?05:58
Keybukyup06:01
ion_Thats great.06:01
Keybukhttp://people.freedesktop.org/~racarr/nautilus.debdiff06:02
Keybukyou also need http://people.freedesktop.org/~racarr/libeel.debdiff06:03
Keybukand the compcomm wallpaper plugin06:03
=== AlexExtreme wonders when there will be a compcomm release
ion_Ive thought thats the way to go forever. A wallpaper image could be replaced with a nice non-distracting animation, on which the desktop stuff would be composited.06:04
wasabihah cool racaar did it06:27
Keybukyeah he did06:30
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Keybukurgh09:05
Keybukmessyness has ensued in the "job replacement" code :-/09:05
theCoreis the cron-like functionality in Upstart got implemented yet? 09:11
theCorenevermind09:14
Keybuknot yet09:21
theCoreKeybuk: yeah, I understood that, when I saw "Events generated at timed intervals or scheduled times" under planned features09:23
theCoreon the front page of upstart website09:24
Keybuk*nods*09:27
KeybukFile 'conf.c'10:02
KeybukLines executed:71.04% of 22110:02
Keybukconf.c:creating 'conf.c.gcov'10:02
Keybuk*sigh*10:02
Keybuk29% to go10:02
=== AlexExtreme really hates bugs
ion_Heh10:03
=== Keybuk really hates testing
theCoreKeybuk: you're not the only one 10:23
theCoreat least, testing pays off on the long run10:24
Keybuktruwe10:39
Keybukok, whew11:16
Keybukthe config code should now be roughly compatible with the old code again11:16
Keybuk(except that this new code is ready to support -HUP/initctl reload; and also has the necessary smarts to be modified to support job definitions in larger files and multiple overlapping sources of jobs)11:17

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