[05:11] <moimart> tko: you are fast
[05:11] <moimart> :)
[05:17] <moimart> tko_: :)
[05:18] <tko_> yes, had to download xchat first
[05:18] <moimart> you are writing with the onscreen kb, right?
[05:19] <tko_> can't figure why wireless doesn't work on  my laptop (ip ok, connecting anywhere not)
[05:19] <tko_> and loving it!
[05:20] <moimart> what ssid are you using?
[05:21] <moimart> im using this metrofi-free-* crao
[05:21] <tko_> WildPalmsHotel on both
[05:22] <moimart> metrofi-free-wild-palms
[05:22] <moimart> that's the one
[05:23] <moimart> I just plugged in the converter
[05:23] <moimart> laptop didnt explode though :)
[05:24] <tko_> any update on tomorrow?
[05:24] <moimart> not yet
[05:24] <moimart> it seems mdz is away
[05:26] <moimart> bobux: are you around?
[05:27] <moimart> robr: ?
[05:33] <moimart> tko_: no luck 
[05:39] <moimart> now you are using the laptop?
[05:40] <tko_> yes, got one ap working
[05:41] <moimart> well, it seems they all are away
[05:42] <tko_> we'll just have to crash the party, then
[05:43] <moimart> yeah
[05:43] <moimart> kinda hungry right now
[05:44] <tko_> yeah.. meet you in the lobby?
[05:44] <moimart> ok
[05:44] <moimart> ill be there in 5 mins
[06:52] <moimart> mdz: ping
[06:52] <moimart> bobux: ping
[06:52] <moimart> robr: ping
[07:03] <moimart> tko_: you around?
[07:03] <tko_> kind of crashing already, but still
[07:11] <moimart> Mithrandir: ?
[07:38] <tko_> moimart, I don't think I'll be waking up any time soon tomorrow %-)
[07:42] <moimart> tko_: so... what time then?
[07:55] <moimart> tko_: im gonna go to sleep in a few minutes
[07:55] <moimart> do i call you tomorrow?
[10:00] <lool> mdz: Will you upload your slide at some place afterwards?
[10:41] <daniels> tko_: you're in san francisco?
[11:16] <tigert> he blogged of being somewhere far away
[11:19] <daniels> yeah
[11:26] <daniels> hm, so i guess we won't be seeing him this week
[04:44] <tko_> daniels, tigert: yep, I'm in SF
[04:47] <daniels> tko_: ah, nice one
[04:47] <tko_> btw, it's cold in here :-] 
[04:48] <daniels> really? it's been like 27C in hki
[04:49] <tko_> they say it'll be 24/13 today but at least yesterday around 6pm it didn't feel like 20+
[04:50] <tko_> and yes, it is weird to say it's more warm in finland than california :)
[04:56] <beattie_> SFO never really warms up, cold ocean currents 
[05:13] <lool> Seems like seb128 didn't get enough mail to read; /me shovers some thousands mail towards seb128 
[05:13] <lool> seb128: WB!
[05:13] <seb128> hey lool
[05:14] <seb128> lool: I've enough mails, going to take the week to catch up probably ;)
[05:14] <seb128> lool: I noticed you used the GTK+ patch in Debian and bumped the shlib then
[05:14] <daniels> lool: don't give him mail, just reassign bugs
[05:25] <lool> seb128: Correct; and even then, it triggerred some discussion with sjoerd who was worried about ABI breakages! (but I only uploaded to experimental)
[05:25] <seb128> hey daniels
[05:26] <seb128> lool: I didn't update the shlibs in Ubuntu on purpose, just FYI
[05:26] <seb128> I don't think it's required to update the shlibs only for a maemo specific symbol
[05:28] <lool> seb128: How will Maemo apps get a proper dependency?
[05:29] <lool> s/Maemo/maemo
[05:29] <daniels> lool: shlibs.local
[05:29] <lool> daniels: Mulitplied by the number of packages
[05:29] <seb128> lool: specifying the GTK version they required
[05:30] <seb128> there is not that many packages using that symbol, is there?
[05:30] <seb128> Mithrandir said that was ok
[05:30] <daniels> lool: sure
[05:30] <seb128> s/required/required
[05:30] <lool> Perhaps not, yet I can't tell; what's wrong with bumping shlibs?
[05:30] <seb128> require
[05:30] <seb128> bump 10 minor version over what is required for a non official symbol
[05:31] <lool> It's less of a problem in Ubuntu because you don't have testing migration; but in Debian, it's really easy to have an app transition faster than Gtk
[05:31] <lool> seb128: And what's the consequence?
[05:32] <seb128> not much
[05:32] <seb128> but adding a Depend on libhildon-something is as ugly as bumping the shlibs for it
[05:32] <lool> Plus, Gtk upstream adds symbols pretty frequently at the start of release cycles, and we're close to the start of a new one
[05:32] <seb128> and we decided on the first one
[05:33] <lool> seb128: Okay; for some reason, I didn't see this discussion (I tried following #ubuntu-mobile, ubuntu-mobile@luc and ubuntu-devel@luc), and it seemed the "safe choice" for Debian
[05:34] <lool> (I don't find bumping shlibs when you add symbols ugly BTW; quite the contrary)
[05:34] <seb128> I think we discussed it on #ubuntu-devel
[05:34] <seb128> sorry for not mentioning it somewhere, anyway that's quite a small change
[05:35] <seb128> well, you make every deb built on gutsy require the gutsy GTK+ where the feisty one would just work
[05:36] <lool> Arf; that's perhaps true *right now* and for gutsy/feisty; I challenge this holds true between any other release and in one month
[05:37] <lool> You simply can't expect binary compatibility between two Ubuntu or Debian releases; you've got to rebuild C programs against the target distribution
[05:40] <seb128> lool: well right, doesn't really matter anyway
[05:47] <lool> Yeah, we wont have to debate any such stuff if dpkg-gensymbols gets deployed
[05:48] <daniels> lool: 'simply can't expect binary compatibility': if the dependencies are satisfied and the program doesn't work, the packaging is fundamentally destroyed, full stop.
[05:48] <daniels> lool: partial upgrades always have been and always will be a supported feature, and regressing that is unacceptable
[05:50] <lool> daniels: Sure, and in this respect the choice of shlibs holds less risk to break stuff on partial upgrades since it's not remotely possible that someone forgets bumping a dep
[05:51] <lool> daniels: What I meant with binary compatibility is that we do not make any promise that you will be able to build a package on $next_release and install it in $previous_release; I didn't want to imply that dependencies are not enough
[05:53] <lool> And even would there be no dependency issue in installing a package built somewhere else in the target release, we still prefer building in the target release and not take the risk that anything breaks silently
[06:12] <moimart> mdz: bobux: are you around?
[06:15] <moimart> robr: ?
[06:15] <moimart> Mithrandir: ?
[07:00] <tko_> anyone at google around?
[07:27] <moimart> re
[07:28] <moimart> Mithrandir: ?
[09:59] <mdz_> agoliveira: https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/trunk/maemo-af-desktop-l10n/
[10:22] <bspencer_> mdz_,  hey
[10:23] <mdz_> bspencer_: libgnomevfs2-0 should be what you're looking for
[10:23] <mdz_> bspencer_: by the way, hildon-desktop should be in gutsy in another hour or two
[10:56] <moimart> lucasr: hi :)
[10:57] <lucasr> moimart, hei
[10:57] <lucasr> moimart, how is it going?
[10:57] <moimart> fine man
[10:57] <moimart> everything cool so far :)
[10:57] <lucasr> moimart, is it 14h there?
[10:57] <moimart> yeah right
[10:58] <moimart> how is everything over there?
[10:58] <daniels> lucasr: what's a havaiana?
[10:58] <lucasr> daniels, hei!
[10:59] <lucasr> daniels, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Havaianas
[10:59] <lucasr> :-)
[10:59] <lucasr> daniels, that picture is an havaianas ad
[11:00] <moimart> havaianas are really famous in spain :)
[11:01] <daniels> lucasr: moi! we have something very very similar (generically, 'thongs' -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thong_sandals), but not proper havaianas.  off to bed now though, see you later.
[11:02] <lucasr> daniels, see you!
[11:18] <lucasr> moimart, hey, could you create your gnome bugzilla account?
[11:26] <Mithrandir> moimart: why do you keep pinging me?
[11:29] <tko_> Mithrandir, we were trying to catch someone for more info on ubuntu mobile meeting.. nevermind now, we found it
[11:29] <lucasr> Mithrandir, don't you like pings? ping = love! :-)
[11:30] <tko_> everybody pings lucasr 
[11:30] <tko_> lucasr, btw, can you announce the hildon-list ?
[11:30] <lucasr> tko_, yep
[11:31] <lucasr> tko_, I announced for the hildon developers already
[11:31] <lucasr> tko_, but I should do a community announcement
[11:41] <moimart> lucasr: I created with my nokia email but i cannot access right now though
[11:41] <lucasr> moimart, ok
[11:48] <moimart> Mithrandir: tko_ and I were trying to contact somebody for the meeting :)