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| DarkSun88 | Hi all | 11:03 |
|---|---|---|
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| zul | @schedule montreal | 03:58 |
| ubotu | Schedule for America/Montreal: 12 Jun 11:00: Kernel Team | 13 Jun 08:00: Edubuntu | 14 Jun 12:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 16 Jun 13:00: Xubuntu Developers | 19 Jun 15:00: Technical Board | 20 Jun 16:00: Edubuntu | 03:58 |
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| === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Kernel Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 13 Jun 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 14 Jun 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 16 Jun 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 19 Jun 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 20 Jun 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | ||
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| zul | do do do | 04:51 |
| philth | do do do doooo | 04:55 |
| philth | Smoooooke on the water.. | 04:55 |
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| zul | hey | 05:01 |
| BenC | hello | 05:01 |
| philth | hi | 05:01 |
| BenC | waiting for someone | 05:01 |
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| BenC | there he is :) | 05:02 |
| BenC | Ok, agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting | 05:02 |
| BenC | Team status will be short | 05:02 |
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| BenC | first I'd like to welcome amitk, just starting with us today | 05:02 |
| BenC | amitk has a strong background in linux power savings and similar areas | 05:03 |
| === amitk waves | ||
| BenC | kyle is currently at UME sprint, and rtg is away this week | 05:04 |
| BenC | going to skip around in the agenda. I don't want cr3 to sit idle watching our discussions, so lets get the KVM stuff out of the way first | 05:05 |
| BenC | I did a test logon to the KVM this morning with cr3, and it went pretty well | 05:05 |
| BenC | so this should give us some excellent access to machines in their centre | 05:06 |
| BenC | cr3: did you have any comments on the kvm at this point? | 05:06 |
| dholbach | Rock On, amitk! | 05:06 |
| BenC | Guess not, let's move on :) | 05:07 |
| BenC | heno: I assume you are representing the debian-qa team for that agenda item? | 05:08 |
| BenC | err, distro-qa | 05:08 |
| heno | BenC: indeed | 05:08 |
| zul | debian-qa? | 05:08 |
| === BenC smacks head | ||
| heno | yes, I'm a DD now ;) | 05:08 |
| cr3 | BenC: should I mention the 3 annoyance points discussed together? | 05:09 |
| BenC | cr3: I think they are worth mentioning, yes | 05:09 |
| cr3 | so, after testing the KVM setup with BenC this morning, these are three annoyance points which I would like to address before the next meeting: | 05:10 |
| cr3 | 1. requiring a VPN to the certification network might conflict with local addresses | 05:10 |
| cr3 | 2. list of machines in machines.txt is a pain, I really hate how machines are scattered all over the place: text file, salesforce and wiki. I really want this to all appear in the hardware certification website, if that makes sense to everyone too. | 05:10 |
| cr3 | 3. having to refer to machines by the kvm id is also a pain, might as well have a canonical id which can be used as a reference everywhere | 05:10 |
| cr3 | If there are point that should be given higher precedence, please let me know. | 05:10 |
| BenC | the vpn is the ugliest...would be nice to have an ssh tunnel instead | 05:11 |
| BenC | or even an stunnel with client side certs | 05:12 |
| cr3 | BenC: I had originally tried with an ssh tunnel but had problems, so vpn was the quick and dirty solution. I'll try again, I'm sure there's a way to get it working somehow | 05:12 |
| BenC | cr3: if you need more testing, let us know | 05:12 |
| cr3 | BenC: thanks for the offer :) | 05:13 |
| BenC | cr3: ok, thanks for dropping in and getting this setup done | 05:13 |
| BenC | I've noted the items and the action item for working on killing vpn | 05:13 |
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| BenC | heno: so, what does distro-qa have in store? :) | 05:15 |
| heno | Just wanted to introduce the distro-qa team. We will keep track of certain high impact bugs that originate from our HW testing, our partners of from support. My thinking is to assign hese to the kernel-team and give them a non-zero priority so they show up on everyone's radar. It's of course up to you how you divide that up within the team. | 05:15 |
| heno | (just the kernel bugs, obviously) | 05:19 |
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| BenC | thank goodness :) | 05:19 |
| BenC | assigning to kernel-team and giving priority is exactly how we handle bugs now...is there some way to flag the bugs that need more immediate attention? | 05:19 |
| heno | They'll be subscribed to distro-qa and I can also tag them | 05:19 |
| heno | I'll also feature certain bugs at the weekly distro meetings | 05:19 |
| BenC | arbitrary tags are a complete mess we can't manage (or enforce)...so distro-qa subscribe sounds like a good filter | 05:19 |
| heno | ok, cool. that's already in place | 05:19 |
| BenC | ah, excellent | 05:19 |
| heno | https://bugs.launchpad.net/~distro-qa/ | 05:19 |
| BenC | heno: would it make more sense to pull kernel related bugs into the kernel team meeting instead of distro? Only downside is we are bi-weekly | 05:19 |
| heno | are the ones we are following so far | 05:19 |
| cr3 | heno: could HW testing or support tag the bugs for you? | 05:19 |
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| cr3 | heno: reason I offer is that we already have to set milestone and perhaps priority, so setting a tag wouldn't be any more work | 05:19 |
| heno | BenC: if I could email a list to someone to present here that might work well | 05:20 |
| heno | cr3: right, I still have to think a bit about how best to group these | 05:20 |
| heno | people have mixed luck with tags, as Ben says | 05:20 |
| BenC | heno: sure, email me lists as you feel appropriate and I'll add it to the agenda for our meetings | 05:21 |
| BenC | might be more focused than the distro meetings | 05:21 |
| heno | so, just a heads up for now. I'll work more on this process and we'll speak in London | 05:21 |
| BenC | sounds like a plan | 05:21 |
| heno | right, that's true | 05:21 |
| heno | thanks, that's it from me | 05:23 |
| BenC | heno: I might just make it a rolling agenda item to discuss high prio distro-qa kernel bugs | 05:23 |
| BenC | we can update the bug status based on the discussion | 05:23 |
| BenC | add comments and such | 05:23 |
| heno | good idea | 05:24 |
| BenC | heno: ok, thanks for your time. In London, the kernel team will be having frequent break out sessions to handle some coordination, so we can do something with you as well | 05:24 |
| heno | great, let's schedule a session | 05:24 |
| heno | on this and bug workflow in general | 05:25 |
| heno | pop quiz: how many open bugs against the kernel today? :) | 05:25 |
| BenC | gutsy, about 25 :) | 05:25 |
| zul | alot | 05:26 |
| BenC | feisty is like 700-800 | 05:26 |
| heno | BenC: which is great, because that's the important number | 05:26 |
| heno | about 3000 total | 05:26 |
| heno | but much of that is just noise at this point | 05:26 |
| heno | (which is an issues in itself) | 05:27 |
| heno | we should consider some mass closings at some point, at least at EOL | 05:27 |
| BenC | I did that for 2.6.12, IIRC | 05:27 |
| heno | ah, right, yeah the old ones are nearly empty | 05:28 |
| BenC | So let's move on to gutsy kernel hand-off | 05:28 |
| zul | goodie | 05:29 |
| BenC | amitk, pkl_: Unfortunately, it's just us 3 here. I would rather do this with all 5 of us, but I can't hold off on it, so we'll start here, and I'll bring kyle and rtg up to speed later | 05:29 |
| BenC | The basic idea here is that gutsy kernel is where all the action should be at, but because of my initial process for "each team member is responsible for a kernel", it's become quite isolated | 05:31 |
| BenC | I want to totally, over a period of time of course, get my hands off it, and get the rest of the team working on it | 05:31 |
| BenC | as a group | 05:31 |
| BenC | the only twitch to this process is git is funky when we're working with w rebased tree and > 1 developer accessing it with the intention of writing to it | 05:32 |
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| BenC | once 2.6.22 is released, this wont be much of an issue anymore, since the rebase will stop | 05:33 |
| BenC | so we need a good process for you guys to not step on each others changes | 05:33 |
| BenC | or at least, good communication about who is doing what, and when someone plans a rebase to linux-2.6.git | 05:33 |
| BenC | but aside from the technical issue, the process should just be a free-for-all of everyone doing whatever needs to be done | 05:34 |
| BenC | with normal discussion on kernel-team@ for anything that would be considered questionable | 05:35 |
| amitk | why can't we all have our own trees, and we (individually) are responsible for rebasing to the gutsy tree? | 05:35 |
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| zul | thats what kind of happens now doesnt it? | 05:35 |
| BenC | amitk: you can have your own tree, and you can keep it on kernel.ubuntu.com if you want | 05:36 |
| BenC | but the lifetime of changes in that tree are going to be very very short | 05:36 |
| zul | what I would do is send an email to kernel-team@ with a diffstat asking for a merge *shrug* | 05:36 |
| zul | doh.. | 05:36 |
| zul | ls | 05:36 |
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| BenC | how this is all going to work will be a work in progress...there are three goals to this: 1) Get the team working on stuff, and 2) Get the team working together more closely, and 3) Give me more time to step back from day-to-day dev stuff so I can make sure the rest of the team has what it needs to get things done | 05:40 |
| BenC | So this is a heads up of some upcoming process changes in our devel cycle, and some expectations of what you guys will need to do | 05:42 |
| BenC | any questions? :) | 05:43 |
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| zul | nope but I guess the community people is involved with that stuff as well? | 05:43 |
| pkl_ | BenC: none at the moment... It all sounds quite sensible, the test will come when we try to do the co-ordination in practice. | 05:47 |
| BenC | they can be, yes...but frankly my focus is on making sure that people we hired have work to do | 05:47 |
| amitk | who QAs the code? | 05:47 |
| BenC | amitk: most original code we write gets sent to kernel-team@ list, and needs at least one other person to sign-off on it | 05:47 |
| BenC | amitk: we try to mirror normal upstream kernel development as much as possible to make it easier for people to work with us who are already used to working with lkml/git/linus (and vice versa) | 05:47 |
| BenC | but we're kind of making kernel-team == Linus in that comparison | 05:47 |
| amitk | there is no problem till someone decides to rebase to Linus' tree, right? | 05:47 |
| BenC | right, and that shouldn't happen often, and it only happens until our target version is released (2.6.22, right now) | 05:47 |
| BenC | it's a quirk, but a big one...some one will have to say "heads up, I'm doing a rebase this weekend, so push all your changes if you want to make things easier" | 05:48 |
| amitk | will a fixed rebase schedule help? | 05:48 |
| BenC | yeah, that's what I'm thinking | 05:49 |
| BenC | friday night rebase parties :) | 05:49 |
| amitk | so we rebase once (or twice) a week, say, wed and fri, and deadline to get code in is previous day | 05:49 |
| BenC | twice a week is probably good, after hours, maybe someone different can do it each time | 05:50 |
| BenC | action item for me, create schedule for rebase during devel cycle, create upload schedule matching milestone releases | 05:51 |
| BenC | process for rebase, process for group development on devel tree | 05:51 |
| BenC | I think we're good for today unless anyone has any last minute issues to bring up? | 05:52 |
| pkl_ | after hours in the US for the Europe based people will be really after hours. In practice this will probably mean early in the morning... | 05:52 |
| BenC | pkl_: we'll make it a UTC time frame, everyone will just need to be aware of how it affects their work day | 05:53 |
| BenC | something like 17:00 UTC | 05:54 |
| BenC | ok, thanks everyone for joining, especially to heno and cr3 for taking time to talk with us | 05:55 |
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| BenC | adjourned | 05:55 |
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| PriceChild | mc44, smells | 06:18 |
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| === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 13 Jun 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 14 Jun 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 16 Jun 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 19 Jun 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 20 Jun 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 21 Jun 18:00 UTC: Mozilla Team | ||
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| shawarma | @schedule copenhagen | 10:23 |
| ubotu | Schedule for Europe/Copenhagen: 13 Jun 14:00: Edubuntu | 14 Jun 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 16 Jun 19:00: Xubuntu Developers | 19 Jun 21:00: Technical Board | 20 Jun 22:00: Edubuntu | 21 Jun 20:00: Mozilla Team | 10:23 |
| fabbione | @schedule aalborg | 10:27 |
| fabbione | :) | 10:27 |
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| shawarma | :) | 10:31 |
| shawarma | ECITYTOOSMALL | 10:31 |
| fabbione | it just doesn't know about continental dk TZ.... :) | 10:37 |
| fabbione | shawarma: btw.. the last weekend in June i will be in rhus/Randers | 10:37 |
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| shawarma | fabbione: I'll be leaving for the server sprint that Friday, unfortunately. My girlfriend is there with her father the week leading up to it and then we have the weekend together over there. | 10:45 |
| fabbione | shawarma: oh right.. too bad... | 10:45 |
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