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#ubuntu-meeting === juliux [n=juliux@ubuntu/member/juliux] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ogra [n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mc44 [n=mc44@unaffiliated/mc44] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mvo_ [n=egon@p54A64893.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mc44 [n=mc44@unaffiliated/mc44] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mvo__ [n=egon@p54A659F4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === DarkSun88 [n=Ma@ubuntu/member/darksun88] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [11:03] Hi all === cjwatson [n=cjwatson@82-69-40-219.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mc44 [n=mc44@unaffiliated/mc44] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === blenderhead001 [n=blenderh@adsl-157-232-187.jax.bellsouth.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === juliux [n=juliux@ubuntu/member/juliux] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === raphink [i=raphink@nat/wormhole.x-echo.com/x-6cc591a9e805a144] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === beuno [i=martin@ubuntu/member/beuno] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mvo_ [n=egon@p54A675E7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mvo__ [n=egon@p54A65221.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === profoX` [n=wesley@d54C0E764.access.telenet.be] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === cjwatson_ [n=cjwatson@82-69-40-219.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === rpereira [n=rpereira@ubuntu/member/rpereira] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === PriceChild [n=pricechi@ubuntu/member/pricechild] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === n3t0 [n=n3t0@201-26-6-31.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === zul [n=chuck@ubuntu/member/zul] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ogra [n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === philth [n=philth@U193.LoyalistC.ON.CA] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === evand [n=evand@ubuntu/member/evand] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === evand [n=evand@ubuntu/member/evand] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] === Fujitsu [n=william@ubuntu/member/fujitsu] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === fernando [n=fernando@unaffiliated/musb] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === licio [n=licio@ubuntu/member/licio] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === nixternal [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === beuno [i=martin@ubuntu/member/beuno] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === j_ack [n=jack@p508D8080.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [03:58] @schedule montreal [03:58] Schedule for America/Montreal: 12 Jun 11:00: Kernel Team | 13 Jun 08:00: Edubuntu | 14 Jun 12:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 16 Jun 13:00: Xubuntu Developers | 19 Jun 15:00: Technical Board | 20 Jun 16:00: Edubuntu === j_ack [n=jack@p508D8080.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === vuntz is now known as vuntz|away === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Kernel Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 13 Jun 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 14 Jun 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 16 Jun 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 19 Jun 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 20 Jun 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu === neversfelde [n=neversfe@nrbg-4db44711.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [04:51] do do do [04:55] do do do doooo [04:55] Smoooooke on the water.. === heno [n=henrik@ubuntu/member/heno] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === BenC [n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mbt [n=mbt@c-24-98-32-225.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [05:01] hey [05:01] hello [05:01] hi [05:01] waiting for someone === amitk [n=amit@a81-197-135-210.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [05:02] there he is :) [05:02] Ok, agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting [05:02] Team status will be short === cr3 [n=marc@pdpc/supporter/bronze/cr3] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [05:02] first I'd like to welcome amitk, just starting with us today [05:03] amitk has a strong background in linux power savings and similar areas === amitk waves [05:04] kyle is currently at UME sprint, and rtg is away this week [05:05] going to skip around in the agenda. I don't want cr3 to sit idle watching our discussions, so lets get the KVM stuff out of the way first [05:05] I did a test logon to the KVM this morning with cr3, and it went pretty well [05:06] so this should give us some excellent access to machines in their centre [05:06] cr3: did you have any comments on the kvm at this point? [05:06] Rock On, amitk! [05:07] Guess not, let's move on :) [05:08] heno: I assume you are representing the debian-qa team for that agenda item? [05:08] err, distro-qa [05:08] BenC: indeed [05:08] debian-qa? === BenC smacks head [05:08] yes, I'm a DD now ;) [05:09] BenC: should I mention the 3 annoyance points discussed together? [05:09] cr3: I think they are worth mentioning, yes [05:10] so, after testing the KVM setup with BenC this morning, these are three annoyance points which I would like to address before the next meeting: [05:10] 1. requiring a VPN to the certification network might conflict with local addresses [05:10] 2. list of machines in machines.txt is a pain, I really hate how machines are scattered all over the place: text file, salesforce and wiki. I really want this to all appear in the hardware certification website, if that makes sense to everyone too. [05:10] 3. having to refer to machines by the kvm id is also a pain, might as well have a canonical id which can be used as a reference everywhere [05:10] If there are point that should be given higher precedence, please let me know. [05:11] the vpn is the ugliest...would be nice to have an ssh tunnel instead [05:12] or even an stunnel with client side certs [05:12] BenC: I had originally tried with an ssh tunnel but had problems, so vpn was the quick and dirty solution. I'll try again, I'm sure there's a way to get it working somehow [05:12] cr3: if you need more testing, let us know [05:13] BenC: thanks for the offer :) [05:13] cr3: ok, thanks for dropping in and getting this setup done [05:13] I've noted the items and the action item for working on killing vpn === freeflying [n=freeflyi@123.116.100.249] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [05:15] heno: so, what does distro-qa have in store? :) [05:15] Just wanted to introduce the distro-qa team. We will keep track of certain high impact bugs that originate from our HW testing, our partners of from support. My thinking is to assign hese to the kernel-team and give them a non-zero priority so they show up on everyone's radar. It's of course up to you how you divide that up within the team. [05:19] (just the kernel bugs, obviously) === camrdale [n=camrdale@d64-180-228-60.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [05:19] thank goodness :) [05:19] assigning to kernel-team and giving priority is exactly how we handle bugs now...is there some way to flag the bugs that need more immediate attention? [05:19] They'll be subscribed to distro-qa and I can also tag them [05:19] I'll also feature certain bugs at the weekly distro meetings [05:19] arbitrary tags are a complete mess we can't manage (or enforce)...so distro-qa subscribe sounds like a good filter [05:19] ok, cool. that's already in place [05:19] ah, excellent [05:19] https://bugs.launchpad.net/~distro-qa/ [05:19] heno: would it make more sense to pull kernel related bugs into the kernel team meeting instead of distro? Only downside is we are bi-weekly [05:19] are the ones we are following so far [05:19] heno: could HW testing or support tag the bugs for you? === camrdale [n=camrdale@d64-180-228-60.bchsia.telus.net] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] [05:19] heno: reason I offer is that we already have to set milestone and perhaps priority, so setting a tag wouldn't be any more work [05:20] BenC: if I could email a list to someone to present here that might work well [05:20] cr3: right, I still have to think a bit about how best to group these [05:20] people have mixed luck with tags, as Ben says [05:21] heno: sure, email me lists as you feel appropriate and I'll add it to the agenda for our meetings [05:21] might be more focused than the distro meetings [05:21] so, just a heads up for now. I'll work more on this process and we'll speak in London [05:21] sounds like a plan [05:21] right, that's true [05:23] thanks, that's it from me [05:23] heno: I might just make it a rolling agenda item to discuss high prio distro-qa kernel bugs [05:23] we can update the bug status based on the discussion [05:23] add comments and such [05:24] good idea [05:24] heno: ok, thanks for your time. In London, the kernel team will be having frequent break out sessions to handle some coordination, so we can do something with you as well [05:24] great, let's schedule a session [05:25] on this and bug workflow in general [05:25] pop quiz: how many open bugs against the kernel today? :) [05:25] gutsy, about 25 :) [05:26] alot [05:26] feisty is like 700-800 [05:26] BenC: which is great, because that's the important number [05:26] about 3000 total [05:26] but much of that is just noise at this point [05:27] (which is an issues in itself) [05:27] we should consider some mass closings at some point, at least at EOL [05:27] I did that for 2.6.12, IIRC [05:28] ah, right, yeah the old ones are nearly empty [05:28] So let's move on to gutsy kernel hand-off [05:29] goodie [05:29] amitk, pkl_: Unfortunately, it's just us 3 here. I would rather do this with all 5 of us, but I can't hold off on it, so we'll start here, and I'll bring kyle and rtg up to speed later [05:31] The basic idea here is that gutsy kernel is where all the action should be at, but because of my initial process for "each team member is responsible for a kernel", it's become quite isolated [05:31] I want to totally, over a period of time of course, get my hands off it, and get the rest of the team working on it [05:31] as a group [05:32] the only twitch to this process is git is funky when we're working with w rebased tree and > 1 developer accessing it with the intention of writing to it === Hobbsee_ [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [05:33] once 2.6.22 is released, this wont be much of an issue anymore, since the rebase will stop [05:33] so we need a good process for you guys to not step on each others changes [05:33] or at least, good communication about who is doing what, and when someone plans a rebase to linux-2.6.git [05:34] but aside from the technical issue, the process should just be a free-for-all of everyone doing whatever needs to be done [05:35] with normal discussion on kernel-team@ for anything that would be considered questionable [05:35] why can't we all have our own trees, and we (individually) are responsible for rebasing to the gutsy tree? === mvo_ [n=egon@p54A6685D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [05:35] thats what kind of happens now doesnt it? [05:36] amitk: you can have your own tree, and you can keep it on kernel.ubuntu.com if you want [05:36] but the lifetime of changes in that tree are going to be very very short [05:36] what I would do is send an email to kernel-team@ with a diffstat asking for a merge *shrug* [05:36] doh.. [05:36] ls === mvo__ [n=egon@p54A65FD2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [05:40] how this is all going to work will be a work in progress...there are three goals to this: 1) Get the team working on stuff, and 2) Get the team working together more closely, and 3) Give me more time to step back from day-to-day dev stuff so I can make sure the rest of the team has what it needs to get things done [05:42] So this is a heads up of some upcoming process changes in our devel cycle, and some expectations of what you guys will need to do [05:43] any questions? :) === fernando_ [n=fernando@189.0.207.39] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [05:43] nope but I guess the community people is involved with that stuff as well? [05:47] BenC: none at the moment... It all sounds quite sensible, the test will come when we try to do the co-ordination in practice. [05:47] they can be, yes...but frankly my focus is on making sure that people we hired have work to do [05:47] who QAs the code? [05:47] amitk: most original code we write gets sent to kernel-team@ list, and needs at least one other person to sign-off on it [05:47] amitk: we try to mirror normal upstream kernel development as much as possible to make it easier for people to work with us who are already used to working with lkml/git/linus (and vice versa) [05:47] but we're kind of making kernel-team == Linus in that comparison [05:47] there is no problem till someone decides to rebase to Linus' tree, right? [05:47] right, and that shouldn't happen often, and it only happens until our target version is released (2.6.22, right now) [05:48] it's a quirk, but a big one...some one will have to say "heads up, I'm doing a rebase this weekend, so push all your changes if you want to make things easier" [05:48] will a fixed rebase schedule help? [05:49] yeah, that's what I'm thinking [05:49] friday night rebase parties :) [05:49] so we rebase once (or twice) a week, say, wed and fri, and deadline to get code in is previous day [05:50] twice a week is probably good, after hours, maybe someone different can do it each time [05:51] action item for me, create schedule for rebase during devel cycle, create upload schedule matching milestone releases [05:51] process for rebase, process for group development on devel tree [05:52] I think we're good for today unless anyone has any last minute issues to bring up? [05:52] after hours in the US for the Europe based people will be really after hours. In practice this will probably mean early in the morning... [05:53] pkl_: we'll make it a UTC time frame, everyone will just need to be aware of how it affects their work day [05:54] something like 17:00 UTC [05:55] ok, thanks everyone for joining, especially to heno and cr3 for taking time to talk with us === amitk [n=amit@a81-197-135-210.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Konversation] [05:55] adjourned === BenC [n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Ex-Chat"] === cr3 [n=marc@pdpc/supporter/bronze/cr3] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] [06:18] mc44, smells === coreymon77 [n=chatzill@unaffiliated/coreymon77] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === coreymon77 [n=chatzill@unaffiliated/coreymon77] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 13 Jun 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 14 Jun 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 16 Jun 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 19 Jun 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 20 Jun 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 21 Jun 18:00 UTC: Mozilla Team === lifeless_ [n=robertc@ppp245-86.static.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === PriceChild [n=pricechi@ubuntu/member/pricechild] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Leaving"] === slomo [n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === blenderhead001 [n=blenderh@adsl-17-208-200.jax.bellsouth.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === blenderhead__ [n=blenderh@adsl-234-45-220.jax.bellsouth.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === zul [n=chuck@ubuntu/member/zul] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === hagi [n=hagi@adsl-84-227-220-125.adslplus.ch] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === hagi [n=hagi@adsl-84-227-220-125.adslplus.ch] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === neversfelde|mobi [n=neversfe@82.113.106.1] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === _czessi [n=Czessi@dslb-088-073-048-156.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === fernando_ [n=fernando@189.0.201.135] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === slomo_ [n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === blenderhead001 [n=blenderh@adsl-80-252-159.jax.bellsouth.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === tkjacobsen [n=tkjacobs@133.15.236.89.dk-boa.res.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === fernando [n=fernando@unaffiliated/musb] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === neversfelde|mobi [n=neversfe@82.113.106.1] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === hagi_ [n=hagi@adsl-89-217-94-140.adslplus.ch] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === simira [n=simira@aine.err.no] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ompaul [n=ompaul@freenode/staff/gnewsense.ompaul] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === petrovicivan [n=ivan@89.216.210.236] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === doko_ [n=doko@dslb-088-073-087-069.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === petrovicivan [n=ivan@89.216.210.236] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] === _neversfelde [n=neversfe@nrbg-4db44428.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Lure [n=lure@89-212-19-55.dynamic.dsl.t-2.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === finalbeta [n=gggggggg@d54C6865D.access.telenet.be] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === PriceChild [n=pricechi@ubuntu/member/pricechild] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === highvoltage [n=highvolt@196.1.61.41] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === DarkSun88 [n=Ma@ubuntu/member/darksun88] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Sto] === mvo [n=egon@p54A6645D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === lamont [i=lamont@nat/hp/x-c4608a929fbe53fc] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mvo_ [n=egon@p54A66E13.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === j_ack [n=jack@p508D8080.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mvo__ [n=egon@p54A645E2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === emonkey [n=emonkey@static-pro-212-101-27-121.adsl.solnet.ch] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === hoora_ [i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-6862f7dccb745d08] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === j_ack [n=jack@p508D8080.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === philth [n=philth@U193.LoyalistC.ON.CA] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mvo_ [n=egon@p54A67C51.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === blenderhead001 [n=blenderh@adsl-068-209-133-121.sip.jax.bellsouth.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Burgundavia [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mvo [n=egon@p54A66335.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mvo__ [n=egon@p54A64B14.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [10:23] @schedule copenhagen [10:23] Schedule for Europe/Copenhagen: 13 Jun 14:00: Edubuntu | 14 Jun 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 16 Jun 19:00: Xubuntu Developers | 19 Jun 21:00: Technical Board | 20 Jun 22:00: Edubuntu | 21 Jun 20:00: Mozilla Team [10:27] @schedule aalborg [10:27] :) === j_ack [n=jack@p508D8080.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [10:31] :) [10:31] ECITYTOOSMALL [10:37] it just doesn't know about continental dk TZ.... :) [10:37] shawarma: btw.. the last weekend in June i will be in rhus/Randers === txwikinger [n=txwiking@sblug/member/txwikinger] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [10:45] fabbione: I'll be leaving for the server sprint that Friday, unfortunately. My girlfriend is there with her father the week leading up to it and then we have the weekend together over there. [10:45] shawarma: oh right.. too bad... === merriam [n=merriam@85-211-184-56.dyn.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === cjwatson_ [n=cjwatson@82-69-40-219.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === blenderhead001 [n=blenderh@adsl-068-209-133-121.sip.jax.bellsouth.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === cjwatson [n=cjwatson@82-69-40-219.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === yharrow [n=sysadmin@unaffiliated/yharrow] has joined #ubuntu-meeting