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[03:31] <mpt_> Gooooooooooooooooood afternoon Launchpadders!
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[03:31] <Hobbsee> morning mpt!
[03:31] <mpt> Oh, and a fabulous morning it was
[03:31] <mpt> hi Hobbsee :-)
[03:32] <Hobbsee> :)
[03:32] <Hobbsee> mpt: how's it a fabulous morning, sorry?
[03:32] <Hobbsee> i seemed to have missed that important piece of information
[03:34] <mpt> Sunny and warm with a gentle breeze
[03:38] <Hobbsee> right
[03:51] <lifeless> mpt: are you back in brazil?
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=== Hobbsee is just frozen.
[03:52] <kiko> wish he was
[03:55] <mpt> Hobbsee, no, still in Nelson
[03:55] <Hobbsee> hah
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[04:30] <ubotu> New bug: #120142 in malone "Bug tracker registration shouldn't ask for both "Name" and "Title"" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/120142
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[05:36] <ubotu> New bug: #120147 in malone ""Summary" shouldn't be necessary for bug trackers" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/120147
[05:45] <ubotu> New bug: #120150 in malone ""Contact details" shouldn't be required for a bug tracker" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/120150
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[06:00] <ubotu> New bug: #120151 in malone "Bug tracker page has confusing "Code", "Blueprints", "Translations" etc links" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/120151
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[09:16] <carlos> morning
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[10:41] <Kmos> kiko-zzz: bug 91925 has a milestone yet ?
[10:41] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 91925 in malone "Automatically expire old Needs Info bug reports" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/91925
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[11:01] <ubotu> New bug: #119815 in malone "launchpad send bug report reply via email does not work" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/119815
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[12:27] <kiko-zzz> Kmos, yes, 1.1.7
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[01:02] <muzzol> hi
[01:02] <muzzol> how can i unsuscribe from bugs ml?
[01:03] <mrevell> muzzol: Hi
[01:03] <muzzol> hi mrevell, can you help me?
[01:03] <mrevell> muzzol: Yes, I'd be happy to :)
[01:03] <mrevell> muzzol: Just a moment
=== muzzol waits
[01:04] <mrevell> muzzol: At the bottom of every bug email you receive from Launchpad is a link to that bug's page in Launchpad.
[01:04] <mrevell> muzzol: Click that and in the left-hand column you'll see a menu called "Actions".
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[01:05] <muzzol> i see
[01:05] <muzzol> this is new, right?
[01:05] <mrevell> muzzol: In that Actions menu is an "Unsubscribe" link
[01:06] <mrevell> muzzol: It's not a recent addition, AFAIK.
[01:06] <muzzol> must i do that for every bug?
[01:06] <muzzol> im in ubuntustudio team
[01:06] <muzzol> and i suscribed some time ago
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[01:07] <muzzol> but for me that mails aren't very usefull
[01:07] <mrevell> Ah, I see.
[01:08] <mrevell> muzzol: Let me just check something
[01:08] <muzzol> ok
[01:10] <mrevell> muzzol: Sorry for the delay.
[01:11] <muzzol> np
[01:11] <muzzol> take your time
[01:11] <muzzol> im working
[01:11] <muzzol> :)
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[01:43] <cprov> good morning, folks.
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[02:36] <ubotu> New bug: #120192 in rosetta "POFile.header is too gettext specific" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/120192
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[02:49] <muzzol> mrevell, any news?
[02:50] <mrevell> muzzol: Ah, apologies, I've been afk for a while.
[02:50] <muzzol> no problem :)
[02:51] <mrevell> muzzol: I can only see one bug associated with the ubuntu-studio team. What's your Launchpad user id?
[02:51] <muzzol> muzzol@gmail.com
[02:52] <muzzol> i receive a lot of mails from @bugs.launchpad.net
=== carlos -> lunch
[02:58] <mrevell> muzzol: Are they all for the same bug or different bugs? I can only see one bug related to the ubuntu-studio team, one to ubuntu-studio-dev and none to the ubuntu.cat team or to you personally.
[02:58] <muzzol> just a sec
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[02:59] <muzzol> i got around 15 messages today
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[02:59] <muzzol> Bug 120143 <120143@bugs.launchpad.net>
[02:59] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 120143 in avidemux "mistake in french translation" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/120143
[03:00] <muzzol> this is the last one i've received
[03:00] <mrevell> muzzol: My colleague BjornT will help you. He works on the bug tracker.
[03:01] <muzzol> ok, thanks mrevell 
[03:02] <BjornT> muzzol: the reason you get e-mail is because the ubuntu-studio team is subscribed to all bugs for some packages.
[03:02] <muzzol> but isn't there a way to be in the team without receiving all those mails?
[03:03] <BjornT> muzzol: it's currently not possible for individual members to say that they don't want to get any e-mails, so you have to raise this issue with the admins of ubuntu-studio
[03:03] <BjornT> muzzol: what they can do is to either create a new team for bug subscriptions, or set the team's contact address to a mailing list.
[03:03] <muzzol> currently means you're working on it?
[03:03] <Hobbsee> BjornT: excluding using a mailing list, and pointing the lp email contact to the mailing list....
[03:03] <Hobbsee> <oh damn, i type too slowly>
[03:08] <BjornT> muzzol: we are working on improving the situation, yes, so that you can choose if you want to receive e-mails or not when you join a team.
[03:08] <muzzol> is there any roadmap about that?
[03:08] <BjornT> muzzol: not sure. although barry might be able to tell you more about it.
[03:08] <BjornT> barry: ^^^
=== barry wakes up and reads...
[03:08] <mwhudson> BjornT, flacoste: kiko-zzz asked me to talk to one of you about form security
[03:08] <mwhudson> either of you have a moment?
[03:08] <BjornT> barry: briefly: when will it be possible to join a team, but choose not to receive any e-mail notifications sent to the team.
[03:08] <flacoste> mwhudson: i'm available
[03:08] <mwhudson> BjornT, flacoste: also, wrong server :)
[03:09] <barry> muzzol, BjornT: the team mailing list feature will do this.  it allows any team to set up a mailing list to which people can separately subscribe.  so in the short term, you'd only be able to unsub from all messages sent to a team's contact address, much like you could do today if the team had an external mailing list.  long term, we will allow you to opt in or out of any email that lp sends you.
[03:10] <barry> eta for fully functioning team mailing lists is a ways off.  i'm working on estimates now, but i think it's 2-3 months away from being fully deployed as currently specd
[03:10] <Hobbsee> barry: w.r.t email, and the fancy new headers for the bugmail - are there any plans for a "this is a duplicate bug" header or something?
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[03:10] <muzzol> short term means i can unsub now from ubuntustudio list?
[03:11] <barry> Hobbsee: don't really sure about that.  we /will/ be tagging emails so that people (or really the future archiver) can treat mail from people differently than mail from lp (or even between human initiated lp email and spontaneous lp email)
[03:11] <Hobbsee> barry: cool.  The current launchpad headers are useful for filtering mail.  it's just the duplicate one taht's glaringly missing.
[03:11] <barry> muzzol: if ubuntustudio list is an external mailing set up as the contact address for the team, then yes that /should/ do it
[03:12] <barry> Hobbsee: is there a bug open on that?
[03:12] <muzzol> ok
[03:12] <muzzol> thanks everybody :)
[03:12] <Hobbsee> barry: havent checked.  probably only in my head, currently
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[03:12] <Hobbsee> barry: iv'e got a few things that i need to file as bugs, and i've got some bugs in there that i want to see fixed too.  no point filing bugs if they dont get fixed.  <g>
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[03:13] <barry> Hobbsee: i'm also working on an xmlrpc brain binding but it currently has bugs, which cause my eyes to cross at unfortunate times.  soon as i work out those race conditions i'll release the code, but it'll require a pair of tweezers and one of those little dental mirrors to install. :)
[03:14] <Hobbsee> hehe, fair enough :)
[03:14] <barry> Hobbsee: i disagree!  please do file the bugs!  they definitely won't get fixed if they aren't filed. ;)
[03:14] <BjornT> Hobbsee: if you file a bug (or find an existing one) about adding a header for indicating duplicate bugs, i'm sure we can fix it. it sounds like a good idea.
[03:14] <barry> BjornT: i agree!
[03:14] <Hobbsee> heh
[03:14] <Hobbsee> okay...
[03:15] <barry> Hobbsee: thanks
[03:15] <Hobbsee> i'll probably end up filing a whole lot in one hit
[03:15] <Hobbsee> but that requires figuring out WTF is going on with an area of launchpad, as it makes no sense to a mere mortal.
[03:16] <barry> Hobbsee: imagine then what a bass player like myself must be going through :)
[03:16] <Hobbsee> haha
[03:18] <Hobbsee> barry: i cant really file a decent bug about the way you guys handle one upstream for multiple packages, or it being marked as an upstream, but only some of the packages know that it's the upstream tracker, and other source packages say "we know nothing of the upstream link" etc.
[03:18] <Hobbsee> if i cant figure out what's going on more clearly than that.
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[03:20] <barry> BjornT: what would be the best way for Hobbsee to communicate his concerns with the lp team?
[03:20] <Hobbsee> her
[03:20] <barry> Hobbsee: i'm not as familiar with this part of lp so i'm not sure i can shed any light
[03:20] <Hobbsee> usually it's by bugging kiko and such
=== Hobbsee grins
[03:21] <barry> ;)
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[03:28] <spiv> Hobbsee: perhaps start a discussion on launchpad-users about it to clarify your ideas into a form suitable for a bug?
[03:28] <spiv> Hobbsee: or just bug kiko ;)
[03:28] <Hobbsee> hehe
[03:28] <Hobbsee> will look into it
[03:28] <Hobbsee> after the zillion other things to do...like, study for tomomrrow's exam
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[03:30] <shirish> anybody knows when launchpad will be back up?
[03:31] <ubotu> New bug: #120198 in soyuz "Notification emails should not be generated for binary uploads" [High,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/120198
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[03:37] <mwhudson> shirish: it's not down?
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[03:39] <shirish> mwhudson: its down, I was asking when it will be up?
[03:39] <shirish> as there is no notice or anything
[03:39] <mwhudson> it works fine for me
[03:39] <shirish> & I'm writing a post describing launchpad features
[03:40] <Hobbsee> it's up here, must be up everywhere else.
[03:40] <shirish> mwhudson: you're right, user's fault, i was doing answer.launchpad.net instead of answers.launchpad.net
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[04:02] <BjornT> time for this week's non-au reviewer meeting
[04:02] <BjornT> == Agenda ==
[04:02] <BjornT>  * Roll call
[04:02] <BjornT>  * Next meeting
[04:02] <BjornT>  * Queue status.
[04:02] <BjornT>  * Are reviews biased?
[04:02] <BjornT>  * Preimplementation call status
[04:02] <BjornT>  * Meta review duration
[04:02] <BjornT> who's here?
=== kiko-zzz is now known as kiko
[04:02] <bac> me
[04:02] <barry> me
[04:03] <statik> me
[04:03] <flacoste> me
[04:03] <BjornT> salgado: ping
[04:04] <salgado> me
[04:04] <BjornT> == Next meeting ==
[04:05] <BjornT> next meeting will be 2007-06-20 at 1400 UTC as usual, any objections?
[04:05] <kiko> me
[04:05] <kiko> no objections 
[04:05] <kiko> as long as there is chocolate
[04:06] <statik> no objections. we're hacking on python code, who could possibly object to something that fun?
[04:06] <BjornT> == Queue status ==
[04:07] <BjornT> the queue is still quite long, but it looks a lot better than it did on monday, so good work everyone!
[04:08] <BjornT> let's try to keep it up, there are still quite a few branches that need to be landed on friday.
[04:08] <BjornT> there are currently 19 open reviews, and 8 of them are over the 2 day limit.
[04:08] <bac> 18 -- just sent mine off!
[04:08] <BjornT> cool :)
[04:08] <barry> btw, i can take more branch for 1.1.6.  i don't have any deliverables for 1.1.6 and the work i /am/ doing can be fit around reviews
[04:09] <BjornT> ok, that's good to know. also thanks to kiko who have been doing a lot of reviewing the last few days.
[04:09] <kiko> I'll do two or three more today -- already I want to do jtv's patch.
[04:10] <BjornT> ok
[04:10] <bac> i have one for 1.1.6 from francis that needs to be mentored.  kiko can you get to that too?
[04:10] <flacoste> bac: it's not for 1.1.6
[04:10] <bac> no? nm!
[04:10] <flacoste> bac: that item was delayed to 1.1.7
[04:10] <bac> oh, ok
[04:10] <kiko> flacoste, did you ever manage to talk to mark about faqs?
[04:11] <ubotu> New bug: #120202 in rosetta "POHeader.__getitem__ semantic is broken when there is no such item" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/120202
[04:11] <salgado> I have a 2kLOC branch on my queue targeted to 1.1.6 and I'm afraid I may not have time to review it without dropping the sso work on the floor
[04:11] <flacoste> kiko: i need to ping him again about that
[04:11] <kiko> flacoste, damn.
[04:12] <barry> salgado: which one?
[04:12] <salgado> cprov/launchpad/lp-buildmaster
[04:12] <barry> salgado: i don't know anything about the buildmaster, but i can give it a shot
[04:13] <salgado> I don't know much about it either, but it'd be great if you could help me there, barry
[04:13] <kiko> barry, I can help you by answering questions
[04:13] <kiko> I know some of it
[04:13] <BjornT> salgado: ok. i suggest you talk to kiko or rinchen about the priorities there, and get the branch re-assigned and add a note on PendingReviews if you won't have time for any more reviews.
[04:13] <flacoste> barry: i've reviewed a lot of Soyuz code, so I can also help you
[04:14] <barry> kiko, flacoste: cool, thanks.  salgado: just drop that branch in my queue and i'll start on it today
[04:14] <salgado> thanks a lot, barry!
[04:14] <barry> np!
[04:14] <kiko> it's important to do it today
[04:14] <kiko> today is really the last day for 1.1.6 reviews.
[04:14] <barry> kiko: i'll start right after this meeting
[04:14] <kiko> new branches that get put up today are like defcon-1-risk
=== kiko looks at salgado and his SSO nightmare
[04:15] <barry> the only other review i have to do is adeuring's but that's not targeted for 1.1.6 so i can defer that
[04:15] <ubotu> New bug: #120204 in malone "Search function should list bugs only once" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/120204
[04:15] <cprov> salgado: kiko: if lp-buildmaster is causing problems to 1.1.6 it can be dropped to 1.1.7, I have everything I need for PPA builders in other 1.1.6 branches
[04:16] <kiko> cprov, no, we can get it reviewed.
[04:16] <kiko> that's not a problem.
[04:16] <kiko> the problem will be branches that appear tomorrow.
[04:16] <barry> kiko: but tomorrow's the last day of school!  oh wait, that doesn't count for us does it?
[04:16] <cprov> kiko: ok, better then
[04:17] <kiko> barry, it's been 30 years since I've been to school. I couldn't say.
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[04:17] <BjornT> ok, let's move on
[04:17] <BjornT> == Are reviews biased to long-serving developers? ==
[04:17] <BjornT> we discussed this on the tuesday meeting
[04:18] <BjornT> basically, there have been concerns that it's easier for developers that have been around for long to pass through reviews, than for new developers.
[04:18] <kiko> well, that's hardly rocket science to me.
[04:19] <BjornT> and it's not dependent on the quality of the code, i should add
[04:19] <kiko> if you've been around for longer, you both know the way reviewers want code to be structured, and you know them personally too.
[04:19] <kiko> who is raising this issue?
[04:20] <BjornT> i'm not sure, lifeless didn't say that.
[04:20] <BjornT> lifeless sent an e-mail about this to the list
[04:20] <flacoste> are there concrete example of 'easier without quality'?
[04:20] <kiko> okay 
[04:20] <kiko> I refuse to waste time discussing this until somebody comes up with a concrete problem to solve
[04:20] <salgado> somebody mentioned the fasttrack thing
[04:20] <statik> I haven't seen a problem, will speak up if I notice something
[04:23] <BjornT> i just wanted to raise it here, in case you have any comments. i.e, if you've seen this happened, or something like that.
[04:23] <kiko> the fasttrack thing was approved by me because I didn't want rosetta to blow up our release
[04:23] <kiko> I get really mad when people make abstract complaints like that!!!
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[04:23] <salgado> the example given was r4236
[04:23] <BjornT> one example was 4236, which was some openid work.
[04:23] <salgado> merged using the fast track policy
[04:23] <BjornT> i think the main problem there was that it wasn't clear that it was fast tracked, it looked like a normal review.
[04:23] <kiko> that was a month ago!
[04:23] <kiko> agreed. it says r=jamesh
[04:23] <flacoste> and fasttrack implies post-landing work
[04:23] <kiko> but it's actually not r=jamesh then?
[04:23] <BjornT> another problem is that we don't any documented policy for fasttracking things, and no way of tracking the work that gets done after the merge.
[04:23] <BjornT> right, it probably shouldn't have been r=jamesh, and that's part of the problem.
[04:23] <barry> BjornT: that shouldn't be difficult to fix
[04:24] <BjornT> barry: well, we tried before, but the discussion got sidetracked into something else :)
[04:24] <kiko> BjornT, joey and I have been keeping a pretty close eye on fasttracked landings.
[04:24] <kiko> BjornT, we need a [fasttrack]  tag
[04:24] <kiko> who can help us do that?
[04:25] <barry> BjornT: i have no idea how fasttracking works, but it would be great if someone who does (or thinks they do <wink>) to just write up something in the wiki.  put a stake in the ground so to speak
[04:26] <BjornT> kiko, barry: lifeless will handle that
[04:27] <kiko> BjornT, this moon, or many moons later?
[04:27] <BjornT> or maybe not, i was quite sure i saw an e-mail from lifeless about it, but i can't find it....
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[04:28] <BjornT> i'll talk to lifeless later to sort it out.
[04:29] <BjornT> so, moving on.
[04:29] <BjornT> == Preimplementation call status ==
[04:29] <BjornT> how are the pre-implementation calls going? have you had any?
[04:29] <spiv> kiko: I'm sure lifeless hates abstract complaints like "I hate PQM" ;)
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[04:29] <barry> the branches i've been reviewing for 1.1.6 have all had them
[04:30] <kiko> spiv, i'm just sharing the spite
[04:30] <barry> i haven't had any because i have no branches for 1.1.6
[04:30] <statik> the branches I've been reviewing have had them
[04:30] <kiko> I've had a few calls this week
[04:30] <kiko> they have been good
[04:30] <barry> any cheers or jeers from your submitters?
[04:30] <bac> three of the branches i'm reviewing say discussed on IRC or in email.  i guess i need to encourage them to do *calls*.
[04:31] <statik> no cheers or jeers, I've just seen people quietly following orders
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[04:31] <kiko> been good for me
[04:31] <barry> bac: yep
[04:31] <kiko> guess that's a cheer
[04:31] <barry> okay, done
[04:32] <BjornT> ok. let's encourage the people to do calls on the lp meeting tomorrow.
[04:32] <BjornT> == Meta review duration ==
[04:33] <BjornT> there was a question about how long new reviewers should get their reviews mentored.
[04:33] <BjornT> the answer to that is as long as their mentor feels it's necessary.
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[04:34] <barry> BjornT: mentoring has helped me immensely in learning about lp, so that should be a consideration too
[04:35] <BjornT> barry: i agree. it's probably best to have a talk to the mentor, to see what he thinks.
[04:35] <statik> barry: I feel the same way, reviewing has forced me to see some additional parts of launchpad
[04:36] <BjornT> being a good reviewer is not only about knowing how to code, and know the standards use, it also requires a great deal of knowledge of lp, how it works.
[04:37] <barry> BjornT: i guess the other thing to remember is that even after we're pushed out of the nested, we still have mamabird kiko and others to help with questions when we review parts of lp we don't know
=== barry thinks about buildmaster
[04:37] <kiko> yeah, that should be fine.
[04:37] <statik> it's also important to realize as the team grows, it will reach a point where nobody knows the entire system
[04:38] <BjornT> barry: yeah. if you you don't need to get your reviews reviewed, you shouldn't be afraid of asking for a review (or just general questions) anyway.
[04:38] <barry> statik, BjornT: good points
[04:39] <BjornT> == Other business ==
[04:39] <BjornT> anything else?
[04:39] <bac> did we state that a person's directory on devpad/code/ be a deliverable mail address?
[04:40] <BjornT> bac: yes we did
[04:40] <bac> i've been using barry's nice script but getting several undeliverables
[04:44] <barry> bac: i know thumper changed his directory to make his branches deliverable
[04:44] <bac> perhaps that needs a mention in tomorrow's meeting
[04:44] <barry> bac: +1
[04:44] <statik> I've been playing with review board in the evenings. it looks really good
[04:44] <bac> flacoste (!) and mthaddon failed
[04:44] <statik> just something I've been poking around with on personal time, but if I get bazaar working with review-board.org, I wonder if anyone would be interested in trying it out on a private server for some of our reviews
[04:44] <barry> statik: sure
[04:44] <statik> barry: ok, will let you know
[04:44] <BjornT> statik: i could try it as well
[04:44] <bac> statik: i'd like to look too
[04:44] <statik> BjornT, bac: ok
[04:44] <BjornT> ok, that's it. meeting ended, thanks for coming!
[04:44] <statik> thanks BjornT
[04:44] <barry> BjornT: thanks!
[04:45] <kiko> thanks guys
[04:46] <flacoste> kiko: so are you taking over jtv/launchpad/bug-30602 or should i still review it?
[04:46] <kiko> flacoste, please review it anyway -- I'll probably send in some comments of my own today though
[04:47] <flacoste> kiko: ok
[04:47] <kiko> BjornT, if there are any other small branches I can look at them.
[04:48] <BjornT> kiko: cool. i'll probably have a small branch ready later today (approve/decline bug nominations for product series)
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[04:54] <Hobbsee> how many source packages are in ubuntu?
[04:54] <Hobbsee> (a general number)
[04:56] <Hobbsee> hmm..  too many
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[05:15] <ubotu> New bug: #120211 in launchpad-answers "Allow adding a new question from the question page" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/120211
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[06:06] <seb128> BjornT: hi
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[06:07] <seb128> BjornT: could you have a look on https://bugs.launchpad.net/malone/+bug/107001? It's pretty annoying
[06:07] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 107001 in malone "some bug followups break threading" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
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[06:40] <ubotu> New bug: #120224 in launchpad "Implement a [needs-review]  tag in PQM" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/120224
[06:44] <BjornT_> seb128: ok. it's a quite simple fix; i'll target it to the next milestone (too little time left for the current milestone)
[06:45] <seb128> BjornT_: thanks, having threading broken doesn't work well with my workflow ;)
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[07:12] <mthaddon> Currently testing implementation of new load balancer on Beta - may be some outage over the next 15 mins or so
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[07:15] <Hobbsee> mthaddon: hooray!  on bugday and everything
[07:16] <mthaddon> :)
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[07:23] <mthaddon> New load balancer implemented - all done...
[07:24] <Hobbsee> woo!
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[10:30] <ubotu> New bug: #120255 in launchpad "Html oops report should truncate number of displayed oops similar to the text report" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/120255
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