[11:10] <darkmatter> klepas: ping
[11:10] <darkmatter> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Glory-Simplex?content=60326
[11:10] <darkmatter> get it while its hot
[11:14] <nothlit> w00t
[11:16] <Madpilot> darkmatter, nice - I wish you hadn't gone with making all three window management buttons identical, though (the three in the top right of most windows)
[11:18] <nothlit> i don't think hes worked on the metacity yet?
[11:19] <darkmatter> nope.. I havent
[11:20] <darkmatter> my metacity lives on paper atm
[11:20] <Madpilot> ah, OK
[11:20] <darkmatter> thats blendish
[11:20] <darkmatter> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Blendish?content=27002
[11:20] <darkmatter> looked good in the screenies :P
[11:20] <Madpilot> how does it look paired with a metacity theme that does proper window controls?
[11:21] <darkmatter> nothlit, its the older version... the new on (the WIP) has some pretty snazzy code going in :)
[11:21] <darkmatter> Madpilot: looks good with most mcity deco's
[11:27] <nothlit> wow its a lot brighter in person lol
[11:27] <darkmatter> hehe
[11:28] <darkmatter> wait till the WIP is done.. lots of app specifics
[11:28] <darkmatter> needs a lot more work and a lot of debugging
[11:28] <darkmatter> maybe a dev team... or two
[11:29] <nothlit> wow the tooltips are great =D
[11:29] <darkmatter> :)
[11:30] <darkmatter> the roundish corners were a pain... especially considering the lack of transparency in gtk
[11:33] <nothlit> darkmatter: the expanded dropdown list text padding is big compared to the rest
[11:34] <darkmatter> yeah.. it has to do with the exported setting (some of the rc stuff is pulled from the dev version).. still needs tweaking
[11:35] <nothlit> hmm the text seems bottom shifted in the task bar, and the selected task is a little difficult to distinguish
[11:35] <darkmatter> yeah... *alpha* :P
[11:36] <darkmatter> also the new mail thing in evo looks odd
[11:37] <nothlit> darkmatter: oh lol, should i stop with the bug reports then? =p
[11:37] <darkmatter> nah.. bug reports are good
[11:37] <darkmatter> just stating the obvious
[11:43] <darkmatter> nothlit: I'll do an update later today... drop the value on the panel text a bit to darken that blue, etc
[11:45] <nothlit> darkmatter: cool :)
[11:45] <darkmatter> try to finish balancing the widgets too... but most my times being spent on the newer, more colourful version
[11:46] <darkmatter> it a true metatheme.. has application subfolder by name... for the moment will need manual editing of launchers with alacarte
[11:47] <nothlit> colourful? what direction are you heading with it?
[11:47] <darkmatter> but I want to use zenity or something and write a config app tha'll automate that garbage
[11:47] <nothlit> gtkdialog is pretty nifty if you want something more powerful
[11:47] <nothlit> it can even use glade
[11:48] <nothlit> i used it to make a bash+gnutils powered wifi applet for fluxbuntu :D
[11:48] <darkmatter> nothlit: colurful in terms of jusat the basic metaphor of stop/go (for active text, etc in apps like banshee)
[11:48] <darkmatter> I also want to attempt to parse text labels once I start on the engine
[11:48] <nothlit> darkmatter: i hope you'll keep it subtle :)
[11:48] <darkmatter> key word: attempt
[11:49] <darkmatter> just to have slight oulines on buttons for yes/no, ok/cancel, etc
[11:53] <darkmatter> nothing to bright.. softish.. but the green/red stop/go, yes/no metaphor (just a though atm
[11:53] <darkmatter> but yeah.. keeping it light
[11:53] <darkmatter> subtle.. themes not going into crazyville
[11:53] <nothlit> that sounds pretty nice, outline? inner glow? subtle colouration?
[11:53] <darkmatter> yup.. maybe an inner glow.. just inside the outer perimeter
[11:53] <nothlit> if it doesn't get too crazy or complicated, it'd be interesting to use it as another light source to display/play with the form
[11:53] <darkmatter> if it'll work
[11:53] <darkmatter> but I am going to do subtle glows in several areas.. prelight in menus... havered buttons (tried with pixmaps... but had to enlarge the alpha margins.. left way to much outer padding)
[11:53] <darkmatter> but in engine will be much easier
[11:53] <darkmatter> only need about 3 pixels
[11:53] <darkmatter> *hovered
[11:56] <darkmatter> nothlit: the effect (glow) will be approximately as subtle as the grad on the prelight menuitem http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=538501546&size=o
[11:56] <darkmatter> http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=538501544&size=o
[12:00] <darkmatter> I need to pastel the text slightly.. to saturated atm.. and the orange should be more rust/redish.. but thats the general *colourful* metaphore I'm after
[12:00] <darkmatter> plus the multiple shades, and some text effects in engine (got pointers on #clearlooks on gimpnet a while back.. you can do etching, shadows, glows around text, etc)
[12:00] <nothlit> wow, sounds pretty exciting
[12:00] <darkmatter> just gives you more light sources to play with
[12:00] <darkmatter> it clearlooks blackrock (?) I believe the branch I was pointed to is called
[12:00] <darkmatter> its pretty neat
[12:00] <darkmatter> so the entire idea is to do like the scrollbars.. keep the theme uber clean and rely on special effects for the bling ;)
[12:08] <darkmatter> nothlit: the mcity will be colour blended, 32pix titlebar, borderless, all 4 corners rounded.. thinking of going "_^X" for the glyphs
[12:15] <nothlit> darkmatter: borderless? wouldnt having a container, even if it doesn't appear to have a border help you establish the form of your theme?
[12:19] <darkmatter> nothlit: lol... thats what I meant... its only like one pixel or so. the reason why is with the design of the toolbars/menubars (not yet implemented)an actual visible container is disruptive (plus you cant match the sides to the toolbar/menubar colours)
[12:19] <darkmatter> its a two-tone thing with the menu/toolbars
[12:19] <darkmatter> both blue.
[12:19] <darkmatter> but darker menubar.. upper corners rounded
[12:19] <darkmatter> tollbars have no corners... bit have a bit of a glowy thing going near the edges
[12:20] <darkmatter> all soft tones
[05:10] <darkmatter> w00t!!!! US patent office FTW! http://www.betanews.com/article/US_Patent_Office_to_Try_Open_Source_Approach/1181591652
[09:36] <nysosym> hi all :)
[11:10] <nysosym> hi kwwii , how are u? :)
[11:10] <kwwii> nysosym: good, and you?
[11:10] <nysosym> fine all the time :)
[11:10] <kwwii> ;-)
[11:10] <nysosym> what do u do this time?
[11:11] <kwwii> I am working on the ubuntu mobile UI
[11:11] <nysosym> fine, any results too see, or top secret? :D
[11:13] <nysosym> kwwii: a crazy german joke: Warum essen Kannibalen so gerne schwangere Frauen? - Ganz einfach: wegen der Kinderberraschung und der Extraportion Milch!
[11:13] <kwwii> half and half
[11:13] <kwwii> nysosym: ouch
[11:14] <nysosym> yes very macabre
[11:14] <kwwii> brb, gotta restart my desktop
[11:14] <nysosym> wb kwwii :)
[11:15] <kwwii> re
[11:15] <nysosym> a lot to do at moment?
[11:15] <kwwii> I was thinking about asking everyone to offer up their ideas for gutsy artwork (with the expressed statement that nothing is 100% and nothing is sure to be included)
[11:16] <kwwii> I had hoped that some community people would create their own themes but it seems that people like criticizing the work of others more than making their own work
[11:16] <nysosym> yes that's typical... :-/
[11:16] <kwwii> hehe, yeah
[11:16] <kwwii> but complaining that they cannot effectively help is also typical
[11:18] <nysosym> who has u asked for stuff in gutsy?
[11:22] <nothlit> kwwii: ooh any thoughts then? https://people.fluxbuntu.org/~nothlit/communitytheme/gutsy/sketches/ https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/CommunityTheme/Collaboration+Progress https://people.fluxbuntu.org/~nothlit/communitytheme/gutsy/colours/mock_proposed/
[11:23] <nothlit> =/ the mailing list on the subject completely died when the direction got more concrete
[11:25] <nothlit> kwwii: does sabdfl have a direction he wants already for the official artwork? or does his influence come from the feedback
[11:27] <kwwii> I guess I will be leading things a bit more
[11:28] <kwwii> and for Gutsy I do not think that we will be radically changing things
[11:28] <kwwii> well, that is poorly expressed
[11:28] <kwwii> we can do new things, but we still need to keep a definite branding based on what we have had until now somewhat
[11:28] <kwwii> so...we are not going to radically change colors or such
[11:29] <kwwii> and as far as a background goes, we need to avoide including too much detail
[11:30] <kwwii> so like, the colors we use need to fit into the existing colors and branding
[11:31] <nothlit> hmm not much detail? so more swishes or some nice layered effects?
[11:32] <kwwii> well, not too many sharp lines, etc
[11:34] <nysosym> ,w
[11:34] <nysosym> kwwii: and photos from african places?
[11:34] <nysosym> with ubuntu colors :D
[11:34] <kwwii> probably a bad idea
[11:34] <nysosym> or some vektor works
[11:35] <kwwii> no pics of things one can recognize
[11:35] <kwwii> everyone tends to like doing african-like things but ubuntu is much more than just africa
[11:36] <nothlit> i don't think ubuntu has a distinct identity yet beyond corporate branding or vague references to ^
[11:36] <kwwii> well, the corporate branding is very important
[11:37] <nysosym> sure but the name comes from an african word, the colors match with african very well. Mark loves South Afrika. I think the association with africa is consequent
[11:37] <kwwii> but it is not a good idea art-wise
[11:38] <nothlit> no? abstracted macros could do a lot
[11:38] <kwwii> I think that going back to something like we had in breezy and before is the best idea at this time
[11:38] <kwwii> anything too specific is bad
[11:40] <nysosym> hmm ok, but i think nice brown mountains with elefants in vektor art would be nice. All with the current ubuntu color palette.
[11:41] <nysosym> Smooth or hard curves/lines looks good, but these a little bit outdated
[11:42] <kwwii> I know that mark will veto anything with a defnite africa look
[11:42] <nysosym> people wanna have a nice collection of realistic places, where they can associate some emotions
[11:42] <kwwii> what about people who do not like africa or africa-like stuff
[11:43] <kwwii> but the fact that places can be associated with emotions is exactly what we want to avoid
[11:43] <nothlit> how can people not like a whole continent of variety
[11:44] <kwwii> lol
[11:45] <kwwii> believe me, it is that way
[11:45] <nysosym> for example the macro of leaves in leopard or vista, i know so many people who love this picture. Nothing specific but very interesting, descent, but u can (i've u want) have a look to many details like rain-drops
[11:45] <kwwii> but that is not default
[11:45] <kwwii> what we use as defualt and what we include are two different subjects
[11:47] <nysosym> i think the goal should be, that anyone see a screenshot of ubuntu and he should think "Yes, that's ubuntu".
[11:47] <kwwii> definitely
[11:49] <nothlit> whats wrong with detail, i think f7 proves without a doubt that distinctive objects can work for a default
[11:49] <nysosym> Like the example of the leave macro it's not default, but the most people associatie this picture with vista. Thats the reason why the devs are laughing at WWDC 07, as steve show the screen of Leopard.
[11:50] <kwwii> nothlit: nothing wrong with the right kind of detail :-)
[11:50] <kwwii> nysosym: we are only discussing the default here though :-)
[11:50] <kwwii> as far as I am concerned if people would create themes I would see to it that they are included
[11:51] <kwwii> I did not write the automaticeArtworkBuilder wiki page for nothing :-)
[11:52] <nysosym> :)
[11:53] <nothlit> kwwii: whats the limits on detail, just basically 3d or 2d loops/swirls etc?
[11:54] <nysosym> i understand, that any detail is okay, only limits are ubuntu colors and a neutral motive
[11:55] <kwwii> nothlit: no definite limit in that sense
[11:56] <kwwii> it just has to be easy and simple enough for everyone to use
[11:56] <kwwii> and the icons and names underneath need to be readable
[11:57] <kwwii> the best test is to put a bunch of icons on the desktp and see how busy it looks
[11:58] <nysosym> http://www.gnome-look.org/CONTENT/content-pre1/46825-1.png
[11:58] <nysosym> something like this ^^
[11:59] <kwwii> in that example I would say that the colors are too far from the branding, but not way off...the most critical aspect would be the white lines and and gradients
[11:59] <kwwii> what color would the text underneath the icons be?
[11:59] <kwwii> and how well could you read it?
[11:59] <kwwii> see what I mean?
[12:00] <nysosym> sure :)
[12:01] <nysosym> but didn't have gnome a feature that the fontcolor change with the maincolor of the wallpaper?
[12:03] <kwwii> well, with that wallpaper neither black nor white would work
[12:03] <kwwii> black would be too dark on the orange and white would be too light on the white
[12:04] <TheSheep> .oO(xfce just has frames around the icon labels...)
[12:06] <nysosym> and gnome has a shadow
[12:08] <nysosym> my favorite style is something like this
[12:08] <nysosym> http://freenet-homepage.de/adkad/grungeflowers_widescreen.png
[12:10] <TheSheep> nysosym: mine favorite:
[12:10] <TheSheep> http://sheep.art.pl/misc/shot.png
[12:10] <TheSheep> :)
[12:10] <TheSheep> bah, wrong shot, doesn't show the background \:(
[12:11] <nysosym> but my example doesn't match very well with many icons