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superm1_evand, http://www.mythbuntu.org/~supermario/mythbuntu/ubiquity-mythbuntu.debdiff  (Note that doesn't have any of my ideas of modularization off gtk-ui.py implemented.  If you like the idea of doing that, I'll be glad to give it a shot)12:14
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evandsuperm1_: thanks, I'll let you know12:16
superm1_thanks evand 12:17
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cjwatsonsuperm1_: that's possible but I'm really more worried about the glade file12:28
cjwatsonmerging that will be a right mess12:29
superm1_cjwatson, indeed12:29
cjwatsonI'd like there to be a way to split the glade file up into one file per page somehow without affecting the actual layout of the UI, and that way merging would be more sensible12:29
superm1_cjwatson, is there a way around that that you thinkg can work?12:29
cjwatsonbut I have never got anywhere with actually doing that12:29
superm1_is it on your ubiquity roadmap though?12:29
cjwatsonuntil that happens, I don't want radical UI changes to be merged into core12:29
cjwatsonnot at present, but contributions welcome12:30
cjwatsonmikmorg: I am, but it's late; will you be available tomorrow?12:30
superm1_after getting the rest of our changes in, I'll see how much work that would be.12:30
superm1_cjwatson, would you be alright if we committed our package as ubiquity-mythbuntu to universe then until things are ready enough to merge to core?12:31
cjwatsonsuperm1_: I think the rest of your changes ought to be contingent on this12:31
cjwatsonsuperm1_: I guess so, provided package names don't clash and it's maintained as a bzr branch12:31
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superm1_yes its in our bzr branch atm.12:31
superm1_for this release cycle, do you anticipate a lot of changes to the glade file?12:32
cjwatsonmy worry about ubiquity-mythbuntu (and, btw, have you run that by trademarks@ubuntu.com?) would be that it would be hard to keep it in sync with the core in the ubiquity package if packaged normally12:33
cjwatsonit might be best to include the whole thing in the ubiquity-mythbuntu binary package and conflict with all the ubiquity* packages rather than doing the frontend separation thing12:34
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superm1_I did a merge last night from 1.4.2 to 1.5.3 ubiquity + our changes, and it indeed was very messy12:34
mikmorgcjwatson: hi12:34
superm1_sabdfl_ gave us the ok on the mythbuntu name at the last CC meeting12:34
superm1_but i haven't directly ran it by trademarks@12:34
cjwatsonif sabdfl says it's ok, I doubt there's a need :)12:34
mikmorgcjwatson: sorry i was afk for a bit, i think i may have found an issue in casper, with 40install_driver_updates12:34
cjwatsonmikmorg: it would not surprise me; that feature wasn't fully tested :-/12:35
mikmorgcjwatson: thanks.12:35
cjwatsonmikmorg: place to start would be to boot with break=top, then run:12:35
superm1_cjwatson, i'll set our packaging up then to conflict with all ubiquity-* packages and provide our own ubiquity-mythbuntu-* for now12:35
mikmorgcjwatson: I'm not sure if my co. wants me to pursue this, as it wouldn't help us directly if I did.. but I may take a look off-hours12:35
cjwatsonsed -i 's,/bin/sh,/bin/sh -x,' /scripts/casper-premount/10driver_updates12:36
cjwatsonthen get hold of /var/log/casper.log after boot12:36
superm1_cjwatson, in migrating to a glade file per page, your thinking of moving away from GTKNotebook then?12:36
cjwatsonsuperm1_: we've separately thought about moving to GtkAssistant, but I'm not sure it needs to be tied to that12:36
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cjwatsonsuperm1_: the per-page glade files could just have some kind of toplevel thing that gets stripped off at run-time12:37
cjwatsonjust for the sake of the interface builder12:37
superm1_ah that can make sense12:37
superm1_and then merge them all back in12:37
superm1_can you put them back into a notebook that way too then?12:38
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cjwatsonmikmorg: failing that, if you could share the .deb you've been using to test it, we could take it from there12:38
superm1_as in copy a pygtk gtknotebook page from one glade to another12:38
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cjwatsonsuperm1_: I don't see why not; after all glade builds the notebook at run-time anyway12:38
cjwatsonyou take a widget and add it as a page12:38
superm1_i'll investigate this soon then.  it should be fairly feasible in this thought process12:39
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mikmorgcjwatson: sorry for being afk, i was discussing the possibility of getting around it in feisty :/01:05
mikmorgunfortunately, doesn't seem like we can01:05
mikmorgnot without too much pain, anyway01:05
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cjwatsonmikmorg: hard to say without having got far enough to know what the problem is01:06
cjwatsonmikmorg: if it turns out to be a casper bug, chances are you could just build an updated initrd with a casper patch applied and remaster the CD with that01:07
mikmorgcjwatson: understood. In any case, I think I may need to file a bug01:07
cjwatsonplease let me know the bug number01:07
mikmorgcjwatson: respinning costs too much at this point01:07
mikmorgcjwatson: I definitely will.01:07
mikmorgcjwatson: I will also include a link to the driver disk iso01:08
cjwatsonthanks, that would be perfect01:08
cjwatsonsorry about this, I very much want to get it working PROPERLY for gutsy01:08
mikmorgcjwatson: So do we (dell)01:08
cjwatsondoubly so then :)01:09
cjwatsonwe can talk about solutions once we've investigated; with luck it'll be something workaroundable01:10
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txwikingerHas the hugging started?01:11
mikmorgcjwatson: Thank you for your assistance.01:11
cjwatsonmikmorg: no problem01:12
cjwatsonTim was actually due to come up with a test case so we could do a proper end-to-end on this01:12
cjwatsonno harm in shortcutting ...01:13
mikmorgcjwatson: Where does Casper track its bugs?01:16
cjwatsonmikmorg: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/casper01:17
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pygisiretart, around?01:26
siretartpygi: yes, but not for that long01:31
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pygisiretart, oki, you needed me for something while I was away01:31
pygisiretart, so fire away01:31
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cjwatsontxwikinger: might be a bit quiet until Europe wakes back up01:36
pygicjwatson, but europe is awake =)01:37
cjwatsonI mean without quite so much assistance from coffee01:38
pygicjwatson, I never drink coffee? :P01:39
cjwatsonit may not be Ubuntu, but in my off hours I'm making a reasonable dent in both Debian bug 18452 and Debian bug 2944801:39
ubotuDebian bug 18452 in man-db "man-db: save cat pages in background?" [Wishlist,Open]  http://bugs.debian.org/1845201:39
ubotuDebian bug 29448 in man-db "man-db: No databases for non-English man hierarchies" [Wishlist,Open]  http://bugs.debian.org/2944801:39
cjwatsonmaybe I will nail 18452 before its tenth birthday!01:39
pygihaha :)01:40
pygicjwatson, it took you for years to respond to a comment :p01:41
cjwatsonpygi: what, on 18452?01:41
cjwatsonpygi: in my defence, I wasn't the maintainer until 200101:41
cjwatsonand the package was in a horrible state when I took it on :P01:42
pygicjwatson, haha :)01:42
StevenKAhh, 2001. Back when we would upload to Debian by pushing the package uphill. Both ways. In the snow!01:42
pygicjwatson, but 4 (!) years :P01:43
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txwikingercjwatson: I am in Europe :D01:44
pygitxwikinger, same :P01:45
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cjwatsonhah, and we can now close Debian bug 50612 as well, a mere 7.5 years on01:48
pygicjwatson, that's nothing :)01:49
pygiIf it ain't more then 10 years, it's not worth the effort to close it :p01:49
cjwatsonUbuntu hasn't had time to accumulate *really* crusty bugs yet01:50
pygithen we shouldn't close any bug :P01:52
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pygigood night02:12
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Hobbseewtf was uploaded???03:13
ajmitchhi to you too, Hobbsee 03:13
Hobbseehi ajmitch 03:13
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ajmitchwhat was that outburst over?03:13
Hobbseemy system is at 100% CPU on both cores, fan on, when usually it would be doing 2% or something03:13
Hobbseeand it's very very laggy03:13
mjg59Hobbsee: top?03:14
Hobbseecant see what it is yet03:14
Hobbseeit's normal processes - bzip2, kopete, konversatino03:14
Hobbseebut they never urn this high03:14
StevenKNo DMA?03:15
Hobbseenot sure.  i didnt change it03:15
Hobbseewow, even dpkg is at 100%03:16
Hobbsee(it's behaving like ti's got 128mb of ram or something!)03:16
mjg59Is the load being accounted to processes or to the system?03:16
Hobbseeas in, is it at CPU% or teh entire system load?03:17
Hobbseeti's both03:17
mjg59In top, does the CPU line have high %us or high %sy?03:18
mjg59That tells you whether it's time spend in the kernel or time spent in userland03:19
Hobbseemjg59: Cpu(s): 59.5%us, 11.8%sy,  0.0%ni, 26.1%id,  0.2%wa,  2.1%hi,  0.3%si,  0.0%st03:19
mjg59Hm. Hard to tell, then.03:19
Hobbseeimpressive load averages.  top - 11:19:40 up 15 min,  1 user,  load average: 3.11, 3.92, 2.7703:19
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Hobbseei couldnt even get brandon's that high when it was building multiple blocks of kde03:20
StevenKTurn off DMA and then try it. :-P03:20
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Hobbseeoookay, that's better.03:27
Hobbseemjg59: i dont know *what* that was, but that was weird.03:27
Hobbseedoesnt take 3 seconds for any screen redraw to take place, fan isnt constantly on, and entire system isnt behaving as if it's on 128mb of ram.     yay!03:28
StevenKHobbsee: You rebooted?03:28
Hobbseetried the windows solution, when nothing else became obvious03:28
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mikmorg_does anyone know why apt-cdrom would hang in casper when booting? Granted, this is not on any gold CD, but I remastered Ubuntu, and added 'piix' to the initrd module loader.. as that is a CD-ROM driver, it could have something to do with it.04:35
mjg59Does it work if you don't do that?04:36
mikmorg_It seems apt-cdrom hangs as it requests a name for the CD04:36
mikmorg_the Please provide a name for this Disc prompt gets put into the casper.log file,04:36
mikmorg_mjg59: I haven't tried remastering another disk with taking my change out.. its my next step, assuming i feel like wasting another CD.04:37
mjg59If you can reproduce it without hacking the image, that's probably interesting04:37
mikmorg_I have a golden CD that works fine04:38
mikmorg_so I'm not sure where the problem is, but I think it has something to do w/ piix being loaded.04:38
mikmorg_Which begs the question - why did they stop loading the piix driver in Feisty?04:38
mikmorg_Edgy loaded it :p04:39
mikmorg_not forcibly, albiet04:39
mjg59Because it's driven by ata_piix now04:39
mikmorg_mjg59: the answer I suspected..04:40
mikmorg_mjg59: However, I have an IDE CD-ROM that won't load in ata_piix04:40
mjg59Sounds like a kernel bug04:40
mikmorg_true, but it gets fixed again in 2.6.20-1604:41
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mikmorg_of course, working with gold, i want 2.6.20-15 to work (which is why i'm attempting to backport the changes by loading the old piix).04:41
mikmorg_anyway, its messy. I was just curious if there were any undocumented concerns with apt-cdrom04:42
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Amaranthmikmorg_: wouldn't it be easier to add 2.6.20-16 to your cd?04:50
mikmorg_Amaranth: yes :)04:50
mikmorg_.. but thats too easy.04:50
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mikmorg_so, it seems apt-cdrom isn't stopped from potentially requesting user input in casper-bottom/41apt_cdrom05:08
mikmorg_i wonder why it asked me this time, but not on gold...05:08
mikmorg_very odd :/05:08
mikmorg_nevermind.. found it05:17
mikmorg_apparently you have to have a '.disk' directory in the root, and since its hidden, my copy must not have included that.. forcing apt-cdrom to request information it didn't get automatically :05:18
mikmorg_thanks for the tips though05:18
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Hobbseemorning fabbione!06:21
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pittiGood morning08:41
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shawarmamorning, pitti08:41
pittihey shawarma, moin StevenK 08:41
Hobbseemorning pitti!08:42
Hobbseemorning shawarma 08:42
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=== pitti hugs Hobbsee
=== Hobbsee hugs pitti
Hobbseepitti: save me from the crazy people tomorrow!08:43
pittislomo: I just kicked gstreamer, ghostscript looks good08:44
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pittiHobbsee: context?08:44
Hobbseepitti: i have to work tomorrow.  http://community.livejournal.com/customers_suck/22067011.html08:44
Hobbseeafter my exam08:44
slomopitti: thanks08:44
pittiHobbsee: if it comforts you, I work with crazy people every day :)08:44
Hobbseenot that type of crazy08:45
crimsunpitti is slyly implying his own sanity.08:45
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coNPHey, where is the hug day? Here or in #ubuntu-bugs? Neither topic contains this, however this topic says bug triaging in #ubuntu-bugs, whereas mailing lists say HUG day is held here...08:46
pitticoNP: here AFAIR08:47
Hobbseehere was the new plan, iirc08:47
coNP... seems as an endless recursion :)08:47
Hobbseemost people are in both channels08:48
persiacoNP: Basically, working on bugs during hug day gets you hugs.  Talk about triage in -bugs and fixes in -devel.08:48
coNPpersia: okay, thanks08:48
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Hobbseeit's dholbach!  look busy, everyone!08:53
dholbachgood morning08:53
dholbachHAPPY HUG DAY08:53
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=== dholbach hugs Hobbsee
=== Hobbsee hugs dholbach back :D
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encompassHappy Hug Day!08:53
pygiHobbsee, :P08:53
dholbachencompass: and the same to you!08:53
=== Hobbsee demands pygi fix all the bugs.
pygiHobbsee, I am fixing all the bugs08:53
Hobbseegood :)08:53
gnomefreakif we get hugs for triaging what do we get when reporting bugs ;)08:53
pygiHobbsee, triage k3b if you've got time then08:54
Hobbseegnomefreak: a boot in the rear.08:54
pygitoo many bugs08:54
Hobbseegnomefreak: for every bug you file, you need to traiage at least 2.08:54
persiagnomefreak: Um.  You're going to fix it right after, right?08:54
Hobbseepygi: i dont - exam tomorrow08:54
gnomefreakpersia: sadly yes i will b working on it today08:54
encompassdholbach: thanks08:54
encompasshow do I get started?08:54
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Hobbseehiya mvo 08:55
mvohey Hobbsee08:55
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encompasswhere can I help?08:55
pygiHobbsee, ah, oki, exam every day here08:55
dholbachencompass: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20070613 might be a good start08:57
slomopitti: built fine :)08:57
pittiHobbsee: customers suck> argh09:00
StevenKHeh heh09:00
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Hobbseepitti: yep09:03
Hobbseeah there we go.  LJ cuts done.09:03
Hobbseepitti: it keeps me sane.  at least a bit.09:03
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=== Hobbsee blames StevenK's wife for that one.
=== mdke_ mornings
Hobbseemorning mdke_!09:04
jameshpitti: ping?09:05
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coNPdholbach: should I edit the wikipage above if I started to triage a bug / marked package? Or only if it is donw?09:08
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dholbachjamesh: good work on gnome-vfs-obexftp!09:22
dholbachjamesh: I just uploaded it to gutsy09:23
jameshdholbach: cool!09:23
dholbachI thought it didn't work, but then I found out that I hadn't paired my mobile phone with my laptop :)09:23
=== pygi got his CLI IM telepathy client working ^_^
jameshdholbach: the README file now contains useful information about that, btw :)09:24
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pittijamesh: hi09:24
dholbachjamesh: ah nice ... of course I didn't read the README in advance :)09:25
jameshpitti: does your dbgsym repository contain debug symbol packages for stuff released through feisty-security?09:25
pittijamesh: it should now09:26
jameshpitti: I looked in http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/ddebs/pool/main/p/postgresql-8.2/, but didn't see anything for 8.2.4-0ubuntu0.7.0409:26
pittijamesh: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/ddebs/dists/feisty-security/main/binary-i386/Packages.gz has a bunch of stuff, but apparently it's not complete09:27
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pittijamesh: I only fixed the treatment of pockets and multiple releases about two weeks ago; before that, some stuff did get lost unfortunately09:28
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jameshpitti: ah.09:28
jameshpitti: I guess I can try temporarily downgrading libpq5 then09:29
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jameshpitti: or wait til the next Postgres security vulnerability :)09:31
pittijamesh: if you only need dbg symbols for the library, that works well, yes (the client lib wasn't affected by security updates)09:31
=== varka hugs dholbach for remembering bug #1 on the list 8)
ubotuLaunchpad bug 1 in Ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/109:31
dholbachvarka: oh, I didn't write that list initially - I think bdmurray was that09:32
dholbachvarka: but thanks for the hug :)09:32
=== dholbach hugs varka back
=== varka hugs bdmurray also .oO(every hug is sacred every hug is good..) ;)
jameshpitti: that's useful to know.  The problem I'm tracking is just on the client side09:33
=== Hobbsee gets no hugs.
=== Hobbsee hasnt triaged any bugs today
pygiHobbsee, you evil thing! :)09:34
Hobbseei closed 6+ yesterday09:34
coNP"What bug do you want to triage today?" 09:34
Hobbseethat's not good neough?09:34
pygiHobbsee, nop09:34
Hobbseethere was one even milestoned.09:35
pygiso? :P09:35
Hobbsee(mind you, i milestoned it :P)09:35
pyginop,not good09:35
dholbachpitti: is there a bug open about apport (or something having to do with it) leaving ~/core files lying around?09:38
pittidholbach: 0-byte files?09:38
dholbachgood, just wanted to make sure you knew about it already09:38
pittidholbach: that's with 2.6.22-6.13, right?09:39
dholbachpitti: yes09:39
pittidholbach: it might be a fallout from bug 11926709:39
ubotuLaunchpad bug 119267 in linux-source-2.6.22 "apport patches for CORE_REAL_RLIM and limit overriding do not work any more" [High,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/11926709:39
dholbachah ok09:39
pittidholbach: I noticed it myself, though, and it made apport's test suite fail09:40
dholbachah ok09:40
=== dholbach hugs pitti
pittidholbach: if we get a kernel with a fix, I'll test it again and see what produces them09:40
dholbachok super09:41
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bryce_pitti, ever been to Palazzo Pitti in Florence?09:43
pittibryce_: I don't think so :)09:45
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bryce_I'm reading a history of the medici, and keep running into references to pitti palace, so I keep wondering.  ;-)09:45
dholbachpitti: but Pitt street in Sydney :)09:46
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bryce_you should do what I do, when asked about any relationship to 'Bryce Canyon'.  09:46
bryce_"Yes, it's named after me, of course."09:47
pittibryce_: heh, indeed; and I *have* been in Bryce Canyon, and it was one of my two favourites (besides Yellowstone)09:48
pittibryce_: I liked this place in Sydney, though: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/tmp/martinplace-pittstreet.jpg09:48
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=== varka hugs Hobbsee for the 6+ yesterday and especially for that funny - i know it wasnt meant as such - livejournal-article ;)
Hobbseeoh it was :)09:51
Hobbseevarka: http://community.livejournal.com/metaquotes/5833841.html is great oo09:51
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=== bryce_ waves to seb128
pygihey seb128 09:52
dholbachhey seb128! HAPPY HUG DAY!09:53
Hobbseehiya seb128 09:53
=== dholbach hugs seb128 ecstatically
seb128morning bryce_ pygi dholbach Hobbsee09:53
seb128Hobbsee: my weather applet indicates 19C, it's not freezing ;)09:53
varkaHobbsee: oh, i think my english is quite to poor to understand that article completely but thanks anyway09:53
dholbach18C here09:54
Hobbseeseb128: it's 10C here, or there abouts09:54
Hobbseeseb128: i dont do cold weather.09:54
varka23 degrees already here09:54
`23meghi all09:54
Hobbseenice...i'll swap09:54
`23meg35C here09:54
Hobbseehiya `23meg 09:54
Hobbsee`23meg: i'm jealous.09:54
seb128Hobbsee: there is no freeze starting today, is it?09:55
`23meghi Hobbsee 09:55
Hobbseeseb128: no - just temperature09:55
`23megHobbsee, do you say "g'day mate"?09:55
Hobbseeseb128: unless you count Hobbsee --> FrozenHobbsee09:55
Hobbsee`23meg: not usually together.  i'll sometimes call people mate though09:55
Hobbseethen remember that its' an aussie thing09:55
bryce_it is??09:56
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Hobbseei believe so09:56
`23megit's the most common greeting in Australia09:56
Hobbseeof course.  we're teaching our pet kangaroos to say it, too.09:56
`23megeveryone says it all the time09:57
bryce_ah, I must just irc with too many aussies then ;-)09:57
`23megmaybe the cockatoos09:57
bryce_obviously just a consequence of staying up too late in the PST timezone ;-)09:58
Hobbseetimezones are stuffed.09:58
=== Hobbsee seems to be living part of au day, and then most of european day too.
Hobbseebryce_: wha'ts the current PST time?09:59
=== Hobbsee doesnt do PST either.
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=== Hobbsee does AEST, any other australian time, and UTC.
Hobbseeer, and london and german10:00
Hobbseewhere they're listed on kclock10:00
bryce_Hobbsee: 1am10:00
bryce_hacker hour!10:00
Hobbseeahhh.  US-type time.10:01
bryce_time to get all that funky code checked in10:01
pittiinfinity: do you have an idea why http://yellow.buildd/~buildd/ddebs/20070609/ does not have the libc6 dbgsyms? (it only has one package at all); https://launchpad.net/+builds/+build/346590 shows that glibc was built at that day on yellow10:02
Hobbseehrm.  perhaps i am colder than i realised.10:02
gnomefreakHobbsee: is there a way to view sparc query for a package (it seems to have issue building)?10:02
Hobbseei cant actually write a SMS10:03
pittignomefreak: 'view sparc query'?10:03
Hobbseegnomefreak: as in, the sparc biuld log?10:03
pittignomefreak: the build logs are public, and you can even watch the builds live10:07
gnomefreakwhere do i find that?10:07
gnomefreakim on the source page atm10:07
pittignomefreak: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/<sourcepackage>10:07
Hobbseeclick on the version that you want to view - the number10:07
pittignomefreak: click on the version you are interested in, then on the build architecture10:07
gnomefreakyeah im there it doesnt give really anything10:07
pittignomefreak: which package?10:07
asacpitti: i think gnomefreak wonders about the sparc backlog 10:07
Hobbseeit gives you a sparc link, click on that10:07
gnomefreakmaybe because its needs building10:07
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asacis sparc fully utilized? have there been issues?10:07
pittignomefreak: so, please reformulate your question to be something concrete10:07
asace.g. gnash hasn't even been touched10:07
pittignomefreak: you need the sparc build log of a particular package?10:07
pittignomefreak: or need to know which packages need to be built on sparc?10:07
gnomefreakit needs to be built for iceape10:07
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gnomefreaki thought it failed but seems it just hasnt been tried10:07
pittignomefreak: https://launchpad.net/+builds10:07
pittignomefreak: both sparc buildds are just busy10:08
gnomefreakah ok i see now10:08
asac... building glibc :)10:09
=== gnomefreak saves that page :)
gnomefreakty pitti 10:10
pittignomefreak: you're welcome10:10
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=== txwikinger2 is looking for Bugs to hug
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pittihi txwikinger10:23
txwikinger2hi pitti10:23
fabbioneKeybuk: got a minute? i am having a very stupid issue with multipath-tools not loading dm-mod at boot time and failing to do it's job.... what's the best place now to trick these kind of things?10:24
pittitxwikinger: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20070613 has some10:24
txwikinger2Yep pitti.. already there ;)10:24
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:pitti] : Development of Ubuntu (not support, even with gutsy; not application development on Ubuntu) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper/edgy/feisty | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs | Tribe-1 released | Hug Day! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20070613
Keybukfabbione: to load at boot time?  force_load_modules in the initramfs hook is the usual way10:25
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fabbioneKeybuk: hmmm ok... thanks10:26
fabbioneKeybuk: oh... right... nevermind.. found it..10:26
fabbioneit used to be done by the initscript we killed10:31
fabbioneoh feh....10:31
=== fabbione HEAD -> WALL
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Keybukfabbione | head | wall? :p10:33
fabbioneKeybuk: yeah kind.. i think i just found a frigging annoying bug....10:33
fabbionethe old init script took care of modprobing.. and it was ok10:33
fabbionenow that we moved to udev, there is nothing modprobing it directly10:33
fabbioneif not because there is other stuff loaded, like lvm210:34
fabbionethe problem shows only when you install plain multipath-tools10:34
Keybukthe whole loading of modules with unattached hardware issue is an interesting one10:34
fabbionei guess i could just load it from the udev rule...10:35
fabbioneand prepare a feisty SRU... *srhug*10:35
fabbionemp-tools are not initramfs.. and they don't need to be10:36
Keybukhow would loading it from the udev rule help?10:36
Keybukusually the udev rules don't happen until the module has been loaded10:41
fabbionethe udev rules is executed each time there is a real device showing up .. like sda...10:41
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Keybukyes, that would make a lot of sense10:41
fabbionebasically something like:10:41
KeybukI've been thinking about extending 90-modprobe.rules for this case10:41
fabbione- real device appear10:41
fabbione- add it to the multipath pool10:41
Keybuksince we have sufficient vol_id information, we could optimistically load dm-mod, dm-snapshot, dm-crypt, etc.10:41
Keybukdoes loading the module cause something to be created that you can hook a udev rule off?10:41
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Keybukah, so that needs working out10:41
fabbionedm-multipath is a plugin 10:41
fabbionethere is no extra device10:41
Keybukbecause otherwise you do the modprobe, and you can't guarantee that the next command will be able to use the module yet10:41
fabbioneand the devices that appear are in /dev/mapper...10:41
Keybukis there a next command?10:41
Keybuk(to set up the devicemapper stuff)10:41
fabbioneKeybuk: see /msh10:41
fabbionemsg even10:41
fabbionethe lines before that are irrelevant for this case (so you don't ask why there is a label ;))10:41
North /msh10:41
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henoerk, the wiki is slow and error prone for tracking bug day activity11:15
henowe need a bugday tracker ...11:15
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fabbionedear world, thanks for exploding right in my face...11:18
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popeyI have a machine that kernel panics when I modprobe a particular module, i cant see the whole panic message because it goes off the top of the screen. i tried using "vga=ask" on boot to set mode to something higher, but part way through the boot process it gets reverted back to 80x25! Anyone know what does that and why? and more importantly how else I can capture a kernel panic message?11:46
azeempopey: serial console11:46
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popeyazeem: it's a laptop, there is no serial console11:46
azeemoh, wrong channel anyway11:47
popeywhat? me?11:47
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popeyazeem: so tell me, where should I ask that question?11:48
pygisiretart, morning11:53
siretarthey pygi 11:53
fabbioneKeybuk: it looks like that modprobing in the udev rule is fine as timing goes.12:00
fabbionenow the worst thing to check... does it affect feisty too..?12:00
fabbioneor this is due to a kernel behaviour change...12:00
=== fabbione rolls the dices
pygisiretart, how are you doing?12:02
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siretartpygi: oh, fine12:08
Keybukfabbione: it's interesting that libdevmapper doesn't modprobe itself12:08
cjwatsonpitti: I'm trying to figure out what's going on with the retrace of bug 11303312:08
ubotuLaunchpad bug 113033 in openssh "[apport]  ssh crashed with SIGSEGV" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/11303312:08
cjwatsonpitti: the top frame of the broken retrace has the same address as the top frame of the original stacktrace, which is in the dynamic linker12:08
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cjwatsonpitti: I don't understand how it could be going wrong inside the dynamic linker like that12:08
cjwatsonpitti: unless the fact that ssh is built with -fPIE in feisty is breaking retracing?12:08
fabbioneKeybuk: might be a change in gutsy.. i don't remember feisty being affected by this problem.. but i am checking now12:11
pygisiretart, nice12:11
pitticjwatson: looking12:12
pitticjwatson: according to ProcMaps.txt, the crash is actually in /lib/ld-2.5.so12:13
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pochuHappy Hug Day!!12:15
pitticjwatson: darn, my amd64 retracer log only starts at May 21, so it's not there; I'll retrace it manually12:15
pitticjwatson: and we lost the libc6 debug symbols for feisty unfortunately12:15
cjwatsonpitti: well, /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 -> /lib/ld-2.5.so12:15
pitticjwatson: I made ddeb-retriever smart enough to really work with multiple releases now, before there was a race condition and manual switching involved12:16
pittiah, right12:16
cjwatsonsome of the addresses in the trace are on the stack, which is weird12:16
cjwatsonI wonder if it's just jumped off into oblivion12:16
=== fabbione sighs
cjwatsonpitti: I tried retracing on ronne and got the same result12:16
fabbioneKeybuk: feisty is the same.... it doesn't autoload the module...12:17
pittiWARNING: libc6-dbgsym is not available12:17
=== fabbione grrrrrrrrs
pitticjwatson: how much work should we invest into that crash? we could attempt to rebuild glibc in a feisty chroot to get dbgsyms which might or might not match12:19
cjwatsonpitti: *shrug* it's just another on the list, nothing massively special12:19
cjwatsononly reason to rebuild glibc would be if you think it might be useful for other packages12:19
pitticjwatson: but if it is that broken anyway (IP in .stack) then it won't give us much, I guess12:19
pygidholbach, thanks12:20
cjwatsonI'll ask for reproduction on gutsy12:20
shawarmapitti: Have you asked around if someone perhaps has it cached?12:20
dholbachpygi: brasero upload?12:20
pygidholbach, yup12:20
pitticjwatson: desktop team isn't terribly interested in feisty crashes any more, so I didn't do anything about it so far12:20
pittishawarma: no, I didn't12:20
dholbachpygi: no problem12:20
pittishawarma: will do, good idea12:20
pygidholbach, I wanted to look after it today, but since you did ... ^_^12:21
pygidholbach, anything I could do for you?12:21
cjwatsonopenssh just jumped forward three upstream versions, so I guess I won't be interested for long either, but I was just going through the bug list12:21
dholbachpygi: join the HUG DAY12:25
pygidholbach, hardly. exam soon :) But I fix bugs everyday ^_^12:25
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pygidholbach, ^_^12:25
pygidholbach, gabble 0.5.5 (in feisty) is pretty unstable :(12:25
pygisame with that telepathy-glib in there :(12:25
dholbachpygi: if somebody steps up to extract small and focused patches from new upstream releases, we can go through the stable release updates procedure12:25
dholbachpygi: we can't just backport all of it12:25
pygidholbach, I understand, yea12:25
pittishawarma: sent12:25
pitticjwatson: so, let's wait a few days whether the dbgsyms turn up again, and then we can reattempt it12:25
cjwatsonpitti: ok12:28
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pygidholbach, lemme look up malone's bug list on gabble12:28
pygimeh, one bug reported12:28
pygiI guess people file bugs against applications that use it then12:28
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fabbionecan somebody please add feisty-updates as milestone in LP?12:30
Keybukfabbione: no12:30
Keybukthe bug should have a feisty task added12:30
Keybukedit the url to include /feisty/ and click the button that appears12:30
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pygidholbach, mind re-enabling me in telepathy team pls?12:32
dholbachpygi: will you re-subscribe to the mailing list?12:33
pygidholbach, sure, if you gimme the url to it :)12:34
dholbachpygi: done12:34
pygidholbach, thanks12:35
=== pygi thought he never unsubscribed out of that list
=== pygi looks it up
pygidholbach, yup, I never un-subscribed12:35
dholbachok good12:35
pygidholbach, I hope to have an initial Fama IM release in a week or so as well12:36
pygibut we need tapioca-glib at least for that o.O12:37
dholbachthere you have something to do :)12:37
pygilaw exam, that's what I have to do today :p12:37
pygi(exam in 2 hours, hehe :))12:38
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fabbionehmm something is changed .. i can only nominate SRU.. before i used to be able to add Tasks directly12:38
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pittifabbione: right, weeks-old bug now12:39
seb128fabbione: yes, that has been discussed on the distro team list some weeks ago12:39
pittifabbione: you need to modify the url to say ubuntu/gutsy/foo... instead of ubuntu/foo12:39
fabbionepitti: feh ok..12:40
sheikhcan ne one help me to start learning ubuntu devel12:40
seb128pitti: can you accept a task this way? I though that was restricted to drivers12:40
fabbioneseb128: thanks12:40
pittiseb128: yes, you can create a task with that12:41
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fabbionepitti: with no rush... #12017712:43
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sheikhsome one out there12:44
sheikhI need a lil help regarding ubunut12:45
pittifabbione: that looks weird; you attempt a modprobe on each and every block device addition/change? that's going to be a lot12:45
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pygidholbach, we can't yet build wilde? (or can it be built with free java stack?)12:49
Keybukcjwatson: random Q ...12:50
Keybukcjwatson: don't suppose you know exactly what utmp is for? :p12:50
pygiKeybuk, to find out users currently using the system?12:51
=== pygi hides
dholbachpygi: we'd need 4 java modules packaged for that12:52
Keybukso what's wtmp for? :p12:52
dholbachpygi: you could start with java-dbus which ftbfs currently12:52
ChipzzKeybuk: utmp is log of logins, wtmp of failed logins (IIRC)12:52
shawarmaKeybuk: man 5 utmp ?12:52
Keybukshawarma: this manpage isn't helping12:53
Keybuksee ... things like w and last still seem to work12:53
dholbachpygi: and afaik telepathy-wilde has been abandoned after the SoC project12:53
pygiKeybuk, Chipzz, wtmp is a log of all login's and logout's, regardless12:53
pygidholbach, meh, ok then :(12:53
dholbachpygi: I think that once there is a telepathy-purple we'll be better off12:53
pygidholbach, yup12:53
shawarmaKeybuk: ..yet they shouldn't , because... ?12:53
Keybukshawarma: because I don't know what's supposed to go into utmp, so never write anything there12:53
pygiKeybuk, you aren't really supposed to leave utmp writeable12:53
Keybukaccording to the utmp(5) manpage, init is supposed to be quite active in writing things there :p12:54
pygiKeybuk, mhm ... seriously, you should forbid writing there12:54
pygia security risk12:54
Keybukpygi: so if nothing writes to it, what's it for? :p12:54
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cjwatsonpygi: I think you're confusing matters; it's group-utmp-writable12:55
cjwatsonobviously it shouldn't be world-writable12:55
pygiKeybuk, problem is that it's very error prone, and a lot of system programs depend on it's integrity12:55
cjwatsonKeybuk: login and sshd and stuff write there12:55
shawarmaKeybuk: We write to it from an init script, I think..12:55
pygicjwatson, meh, you're right12:55
Chipzzheh ok, wtmp is all logins, btmp is bad logins12:55
cjwatsonKeybuk: which is why w and last and such work12:55
pygicjwatson, my bad12:55
shawarmaKeybuk: bootmisc.sh12:55
Keybukcjwatson: right, but what writes the logout bit?12:56
shawarmaKeybuk: That script is probably doing what init used to do.12:56
pygidholbach, no point in packaging then12:56
shawarmaKeybuk: Ask inotify?12:56
=== pygi will be back after exam
cjwatsonKeybuk: don't know offhand, I assumed it was done when the relevant login process exited12:57
shawarmaKeybuk: Or does inotify only tell that "something" is accessing a file.12:57
cjwatsoncertainly sshd records logouts itself12:57
cjwatson(see loginrec.c)12:58
Keybukyeah, I don't think login/getty do12:58
cjwatsonthat I don't know12:58
Keybukif I do "last -f /var/run/utmp", gettys show up as "tty1 ... gone - no logout"12:58
Keybuklikewise for wtmp12:59
cjwatsonmaybe that's what init is supposed to do12:59
cjwatsonseems obvious for it to do cleanup from processes that failed to exit properly12:59
shawarmaKeybuk: login(1) mentions it.. 12:59
cjwatsonlogin isn't responsible for clearing up01:00
cjwatsonnor apparently is getty. I think init's meant to do that.01:00
shawarmacjwatson: Precisely. That's what the man page says. :)01:01
Keybukthe confusing bit about this manpage is that it lies anyway01:01
KeybukThe first entries ever created result from init(8) processing inittab(5). Before an entry is processed, though, init(8) cleans up utmp by setting ut_type to DEAD_PROCESS, clearing ut_user, ut_host, and ut_time with null bytes for each record which ut_type is not DEAD_PROCESS or RUN_LVL and where no process with PID ut_pid exists. If no empty record with the needed ut_id can be found, init creates a new one. It sets ut_id from the inittab, ut_pid 01:01
Keybukand ut_time to the current values, and ut_type to INIT_PROCESS.01:01
cjwatsonshawarma: ah yes01:01
Keybuk-- 01:01
Keybuksysvinit doesn't do that01:01
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cjwatsonsysvinit appears to do the DEAD_PROCESS thing after reading inittab but before actually executing things from there01:03
Keybukit does DEAD_PROCESS when things die01:03
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pittihi juliux 01:03
cjwatsonmm, right01:03
juliuxhi pitti 01:04
cjwatson./debian/changelog:1061:  * Do not try to clean up utmp in init itself (Bug#9022)01:04
cjwatson(unfortunately that bug is lost)01:04
=== pitti chuckles at the subject of bug 40908
ubotuLaunchpad bug 40908 in gnome-power-manager "Sleep button puts computer to sleep" [Medium,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/4090801:04
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pitti"Unexpected error: success"01:05
cjwatsonlike shawarma says, I think the bootmisc.c thing supersedes what init used to do01:05
Keybukyeah, it wipes utmp on boot01:05
Keybukbut one surely needs to attack wtmp still, otherwise there will be obsolete entries from before the reboot?01:06
shawarmaKeybuk: Note that the utmp man page explicitly says it's likely to be outdated.01:06
shawarmaKeybuk: BUGS section at the end.01:06
shawarmaKeybuk: So you should (as you've clearly discovered) take anything in it with a grain of salt.01:07
cjwatsonif there's no logout record, then things like last(1) basically look for the next reboot record and say "down" or "crash" as appropriate01:07
=== Keybuk wonders whether upstart should write those :p
cjwatsonthat is, if there's no logout record and the entry in question predates a shutdown/reboot record01:08
cjwatson./debian/changelog:1061:  * Do not try to clean up utmp in init itself (Bug#9022)01:08
cjwatson$ last | grep reboot | head -n101:08
cjwatsonreboot   system boot  2.6.22-6-powerpc Wed Jun 13 09:56 - 12:08  (02:12)01:08
ChipzzKeybuk: last uses wtmp; if you wipe that, you can only see logins since the last reboot?01:09
cjwatsonyou might not be writing them, but something is ...01:09
ChipzzKeybuk: I really think you're wrong there01:09
KeybukChipzz: wrong where?01:09
cjwatsonChipzz: he means set them to DEAD_PROCESS not actually wipe the file01:09
KeybukI can't be wrong, I don't know what I'm talking about01:09
cjwatsonbut I don't think that's necessary01:09
ChipzzKeybuk: wiping wtmp at boot01:09
KeybukChipzz: utmp, not wtmp01:09
Chipzz13:06 < Keybuk> but one surely needs to attack wtmp still, otherwise there will be obsolete entries from before the reboot?01:09
cjwatsonobsolete entries in wtmp from before the reboot are useful information01:09
Chipzzattack != wipe ?01:10
cjwatsonthey tell you that somebody was logged in when the system went down01:10
Keybukcjwatson: good point01:10
Keybukso, err, what writes the reboot record in the sysv wold?01:10
Chipzzcjwatson: which is exactly what I was pointing out ;)01:10
cjwatson./src/init.c:2179:                      write_utmp_wtmp("reboot", "~~", 0, BOOT_TIME, "~");01:11
Keybukcjwatson: that happens way before any useful filesystem is writable01:12
cjwatsonthere's another bit that accounts for that01:12
cjwatsonsee src/utmp.c01:12
cjwatsonalso halt and shutdown write shutdown records01:12
shawarmaKeybuk: Which part of reboot are you talking about? The shutting down bit, or the starting up again bit?01:12
shawarmaKeybuk: Starting up is bootmisc.sh it seems. Shutting down should (hopefully) be after the filesystems are writable. :)01:13
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cjwatsonupstart appears to write reboot records but not shutdown records01:13
cjwatsonshawarma: it's more than bootmisc.sh01:14
Keybukcjwatson: ah, it repeatedly tries to write the reboot record every time it tries to write anything01:14
Keybukcjwatson: yeah, upstart is largely sloppy at writing anything into utmp or wtmp01:14
Keybukthe only exceptions are the runlevel and a reboot record when we switch into rc201:15
shawarmacjwatson: Yes, I see. My bad.01:16
cjwatsondamnit, having trouble finding a Debian box that has rebooted recently01:16
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Keybuk(the fact that nobody's actually noticed that it's pretty bad at it makes me think that nobody *really* uses (or trusts) this stuff :p)01:17
Keybukcjwatson: I'm comparing with a dapper box01:17
=== coNP announces gladly: no untriaged bugs in inkscape in this very moment
KeybukcoNP: s/no/no known/01:18
coNPno untriaged = no reported AND untriaged, of course, unreported bugs cannot be triaged at all :)01:18
Keybukcjwatson: it strikes me that, at the least, upstart should have the ability to maintain a utmp record for a job01:18
cjwatsonyeah, clean reboots in sysvinit-land seem to have a shutdown record followed by a reboot record01:19
cjwatsonunclean reboots just have a reboot record01:19
Keybukie. "utmp 1" in the job file means you'll get INIT_PROCESS when that job is spawned and DEAD_PROCESS when it dies01:19
Keybuk(for a ut_id of "1")01:19
fabbionepitti: only the first time is "slow".. once the module is loaded, it's not an issue.01:19
cjwatsonand last(1) tells the difference between "down" and "crash" by looking for shutdown records01:20
fabbionepitti: and you don't know if the module has been unloaded when you get the "next" block device01:20
cjwatsonso the visible difference in Ubuntu is likely that you'll never see last(1) saying "crash"01:20
fabbionepitti: so no matter.. you need to make sure it's there for multipath to work01:20
Keybukpitti: *shrug* we attempt a modprobe on each and every device change, pretty much <g>01:20
pittifabbione: (see my comment in the bug)01:20
fabbionepitti: doing so01:20
pittifabbione: why do we need to be concerned about module unloading? that doesn't ever happen automatically AFAIK01:20
Keybukcjwatson: but it does :-/01:21
fabbionepitti: no it does not happen automatically but let say that you do something manually and you replug a SAN (hotswappable disks) you want to make sure it's loaded and working properly01:21
Keybukcjwatson: you mean last should always say "crash" and not "down", no?01:21
Keybuksince we never have a shutdown record01:21
cjwatsonsorry, yeah, that's what I meant. but that appears not to be the case01:22
pittifabbione: but if someone manually rmmods, then he certainly has a reason to?01:22
fabbionepitti: i also don't want to use /etc/modules.. see /etc/udev/rules.d/90-*01:22
cjwatsonlast also interprets recorded transitions to runlevels 0 and 6 as indicating clean shutdowns01:23
pittifabbione: so, if Keybuk as our udev expert is happy with the modprobe hammering, I'm good; but I at least want to understand it :)01:23
fabbionepitti: that happens no matter what.. like Keybuk says.. we do it for other stuff too and it seems to be ok01:23
Keybukcjwatson: it does, where do you see that?01:23
Keybukpitti: modprobe is cheap in the already loaded case - since it checks whether it's already loaded - same cost as doing the same check in udev01:24
cjwatsonKeybuk: search for SHUTDOWN_TIME, third occurrence01:24
fabbionepitti: i did try a boot with sd[a-z]  and root on sdr to test this... no matter how fast i could login there were no modprobe processes hanging around01:24
cjwatsonso 'last -x' on Debian goes:01:24
cjwatsonrunlevel (to lvl 2)   2.6.18-4-amd64   Tue Jun  5 10:53 - 10:15 (1+23:22)01:24
cjwatsonreboot   system boot  2.6.18-4-amd64   Tue Jun  5 10:53 - 10:15 (1+23:22)01:24
cjwatsonshutdown system down  2.6.18-4-amd64   Mon Jun  4 15:45 - 10:53  (19:07)01:24
cjwatsonrunlevel (to lvl 6)   2.6.18-4-amd64   Mon Jun  4 15:45 - 15:45  (00:00)01:24
cjwatsonwhile 'last -x' with upstart goes:01:24
Keybukcjwatson: in last.c ?01:24
cjwatsonrunlevel (to lvl 2)   2.6.22-6-powerpc Wed Jun 13 09:56 - 12:23  (02:27)01:24
cjwatsonreboot   system boot  2.6.22-6-powerpc Wed Jun 13 09:56 - 12:23  (02:27)01:24
cjwatsonrunlevel (to lvl 0)   2.6.22-6-powerpc Wed Jun 13 04:41 - 09:56  (05:14)01:24
cjwatsonKeybuk: yeah01:24
Keybukcjwatson: which last.c? :p01:24
=== Keybuk doesn't have SHUTDOWN_TIME at all
cjwatsonKeybuk: sorry, I mean fifth occurrence. sysvinit/src/last.c c line 78301:25
cjwatsons/c line/c. line/01:25
Keybukohh, I was looking at the one in util-linux01:25
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=== iwj looks at IRC. Oh, err, you want to know about wtmp/utmp ?
iwjIt's been slightly broken at least since pam because the pam people didn't know either.01:26
pittifabbione: ok, bug updated01:26
cjwatsonI'm not sure util-linux's version is complete01:26
fabbionepitti: ehhe ok thanks :)01:26
cjwatsonit's certainly a lot less readable :)01:26
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iwjYou should definitely write a dead record when a getty/login ends.01:27
iwjAnd NB that utmp is a weird fixed-record concurrent-access database.01:27
iwjYou must never change what a particular slot in utmp refers to.01:28
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txwikinger2thanks varka :)01:29
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cjwatsonhmm, whoops, creating /dev/loop1 as a character device doesn't work so well01:34
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WB|DiegoAll developers were great, I love you all02:33
WB|DiegoGood work02:33
WB|DiegoFurther so !02:34
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seb128fabbione: why did you subscribe ubuntu-archive to bug #120177?02:45
ubotuLaunchpad bug 120177 in multipath-tools "dm-multipath not autoloaded causes multipath to fail" [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/12017702:45
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seb128fabbione: do you want ubuntu-sru?02:46
fabbioneseb128: there is already ubuntu-sru...02:46
pittiseb128: he does, yes02:46
fabbionehe upload will be reviewed by the SRU archive administrators during regularly scheduled processing, and approved if it meets the above criteria. Archive administrators should verify that the package delta matches the debdiff attached to the bug report.02:47
fabbioneThe ubuntu-archive team member who accepts the package into -proposed should: 02:47
fabbionethis is from SRU...02:47
fabbioneit mentions ubuntu-archive specifically02:47
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pittifabbione: for subscription it only mentions -sru02:47
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pittibut no big deal02:47
seb128right, just wondering because usually ubuntu-archive is not subscribed and I'm not sure of what I was supposed to do on the bug02:48
seb128I'll let it to pitti02:48
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fabbioneseb128: ok.. i thought i had to sub it.. 02:48
fabbioneseb128: my bad..02:48
seb128fabbione: that's alright ;)02:48
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pittiheno: the list of possible actions on the wiki page should include searching for and marking as dup02:58
henopitti: you mean on the hug day page?02:59
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henopitti: The idea is to just present a subset of possible triage activities to start with. The theme might change for next time03:00
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fabbionelater guys03:00
henopitti: Brian has been selecting these themes03:00
Hobbseeevening calc 03:01
pittiheno: I mean the "To mark it off the list you should:" list03:01
henoI happen do be doing something completely different today; closing 'fixed elsewhere bugs'03:01
henopitti: ok, I'll look03:01
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henopitti: got you now. fixed, thanks03:03
pittiheno: thanks03:04
pittiheno: erk, sorry, I broke your lock03:08
pittiheno: I added the dup marking to the second list, too03:08
Hobbseesuperm1_: cjwatson: what does mythtv-ubiquity bugs get filed under?03:08
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calcHobbsee: good morning ;)03:12
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dholbachkeescook, seb128, doko: ok if I make somebody of you admin of ubuntu-main-sponsors?03:22
seb128dholbach: what is the job about? ;)03:23
ograhmm, no seveas03:23
dholbachseb128: approving ubuntu-core-dev members who apply03:23
ogradholbach, you are CC as well ?03:23
dholbachogra: yes03:23
ogradholbach, can i kindly ask for renewal of my membership before it expires ? 03:24
seb128dholbach: isn't that TB job? ;)03:24
dholbachseb128: ubuntu-core-dev is a requirement, before somebody wants to join ubuntu-main-sponsors03:24
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seb128dholbach: ah, alright03:25
seb128dholbach: you can make me admin if you want03:25
dholbachseb128: it's just that pitti left the team and we should have backup admins03:25
seb128dholbach: alright03:25
dholbachseb128: thanks seb12803:26
seb128you're welcome03:26
pittidholbach: sorry for that, but I haven't been active in that team for months; ENOTIME :/03:27
dholbachpitti: that's what I guessed - no problem03:28
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calcdholbach: happen to know when the next CC meeting will be?03:31
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evandHobbsee: as there's no source package for mythbuntu, perhaps just tag it and we'll deal with it when there is one.03:37
superm1_Hobbsee, atm the Mythbuntu project on launchpad03:37
Hobbseeevand: i stuck it under ubiquity03:37
StevenKcalc: Does http://fridge.ubuntu.com tell you?03:37
dholbachcalc: no, to be honest - I'll mail community-council and ask for a new date03:37
pittishawarma: bug 19889 approved for SRU, please upload03:37
ubotuLaunchpad bug 19889 in sysklogd "sysklogd: Large file support is broken in dapper" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/1988903:37
dholbachcalc: I'll let you know03:37
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calcdholbach: ok thanks :)03:38
calcStevenK: no that was the problem ;) it has been over 2 weeks since the last one and no date is set yet03:38
StevenKAhh, right03:39
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shawarmapitti: Which version should I give it? The wiki page is a little vague with regard to that.03:39
shawarmapitti: It's currently 1.4.1-17ubuntu7.03:41
shawarmapitti: There's not 1.4.1-17ubuntu8.. Should I make it 1.4.1-17ubuntu7.1 for -proposed and bump it to ubuntu8 for -updates (when the time comes) ?03:42
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superm1_cjwatson, I toyed with separating the glade file into multiple parts yesterday, and almost have it done - but is there a cleaner way of copying a widget over to the notebook than using unparent()?03:44
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cjwatsonsuperm1: not sure, not an expert03:48
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superm1cjwatson, okay i'll continue to poke around then.03:48
Chipzzsuperm1: also not an expert but I think not03:48
reici wanna hug some1, is there anything solved yet? ^^03:50
superm1Chipzz, there was a warning in the API saying that the function is only intended for use in child classes that redefine the parent, so wanted to make sure03:50
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dholbachogra: new gnome-power-manager04:12
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pittishawarma: ubuntu8 or 7.1 is both fine04:23
pittishawarma: and we don't do -updates uploads any more, so it won't change there04:23
shawarmapitti: Huh? Where does it get uploaded to ten?04:23
pittishawarma: it doesn't, it's copied verbatim from -proposed04:23
pittishawarma: new soyuz tool 'copy-package'; I announced that the other day on u-d-a04:23
shawarmapitti: Where? Can't find it in the ml archive..04:25
pittishawarma: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2007-May/000288.html04:25
shawarmapitti: got it.04:25
pittishawarma: the wiki page is also updated, so above mail is not that important04:26
shawarmapitti: Well, if you (like me) thought we still did the no-change re-upload dance, it's vital information. :)04:27
shawarmapitti: Otherwise I'd just think the wiki page was missing that bit of info.04:28
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pittishawarma: hm, which part do you think is unclear? I'm all for deconfusing it04:29
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shawarmapitti: I'm not sure. Maybe I'm just trying to do too many things at once..04:35
shawarmapitti: How about DebianMaintainerField? Should I implement that in this package?04:36
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pittishawarma: not for dapper, only for feisty and upwards04:37
pittiCRaMLiNG: *hug*04:37
Hobbseehiya CRaMLiNG  :)04:38
CRaMLiNGthanks for that great OS =)04:38
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shawarmapitti: Alright. Wasn't sure if it was distro specific or "time of upload" specific.04:38
pittishawarma: we didn't test the dapper package tools with XSBC-, and in fact there is one known bug in dpkg, so we mustn't take the risk04:39
shawarmapitti: Alright.04:44
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racarrErr. I forget05:00
racarrwhat is the option to make focus not follow mouse?05:00
mvoracarr: in metacity? or compiz :) ?05:00
racarrwrong channel -_-05:00
racarrI thought I was in #opencompositing-dev :P05:00
mvoheh :)05:00
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pittimvo: hmm @ bug 107431: I thought this was already handled in some SRU?05:21
ubotuLaunchpad bug 107431 in update-manager "cdromupgrade calls gksu" [High,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/10743105:21
mvopitti: yes, I close it05:23
mvopitti: well, it is fixed in gutsy at least.05:24
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bdmurraymikmorg: hello05:27
boenkihello! If someone really wants to get hugged, can you fix this anyoing bug finally!? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-panel/+bug/8521605:28
ubotuLaunchpad bug 85216 in gnome-panel "gnome-desktop-item-edit should change the Name= key" [High,Confirmed]  05:28
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zasfhi all05:29
mikmorgdoes anyone know where the /target path in casper/ubiquity gets created/mounted?05:29
zasfpitti:Hi Martin05:29
boenkior could someone just assign the above mentioned bug to the right people!?05:30
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seb128heno: I have dropped 34_at_properties_onboard_and_new_interface.patch and 81_get_rid_of_orca_main_window.patch from the gnome-control-center 2.19.3 update, upstream changed quite some code and nothing apply. Could anybody from a11y look if they are still required and should be rewritten or something?05:31
boenkiI wonder if they know about it at all, cause it doesn't seem to be to difficult to fix05:31
pittizasf: hi05:31
iwjSeen elsewhere:05:31
iwj16:17 <iwj> 16:17 <steph> Hm.  This atomic force microscope controller has Kubuntu embedded in it.05:32
zasfpitti: are you busy? I'd like to chat a bit about r-d-m05:32
henoseb128: I'll have a look05:32
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pittizasf: reasonably; what's r-d-m?05:33
seb128heno: thank you05:33
seb128desrt: around?05:33
zasfpitti: restricted drivers manager05:33
zasfpitti: I did some coding for fun, I'd like to know what you think05:33
zasfpitti: I wrote you an email and got no feedback05:33
pittizasf: oh, weird, when?05:34
seb128pitti: if you have a minute could you look at compizconfig-binding in NEW? I've packaged it so I would prefer having somebody else doing the NEWing05:34
seb128pitti: it's a small an easy one05:34
zasfpitti: last week05:34
pittiseb128: right, will do05:34
mikmorgHas anyone here done any testing/writing of the driver update system in casper?05:35
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evandmikmorg: cjwatson wrote it.  I don't think anyone's tested it yet :)05:37
mikmorgevand: ok, thanks05:38
mikmorgseems i am the first :p05:38
pittiseb128: indeed, small and nice; accepted05:41
seb128pitti: danke05:41
keescookdholbach: if you don't already have enough ubuntu-main-sponsors admins, feel free to add me.  :)05:41
pittiseb128: are you doing some other source NEW today? I'll do some on Friday, but the current queue is so long, I won't manage this alone05:42
pittimorning keescook 05:42
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seb128pitti: yes, will do some now05:42
keescookhiya pitti05:42
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seb128pitti: I wanted to get GTK+2.11 uploaded first, which is done now ;)05:42
Riddelliwj: wow05:42
seb128hey keescook05:42
dholbachkeescook: done :)05:42
keescookhiya seb128 :)05:43
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keescookdholbach: so to approve folks, it's just a matter of    if user in ubuntu-core-dev: approve   ?05:43
iwjRiddell: Thought you might like to hear that one :-).05:43
keescookbdmurray: so, we're hanging out in here or u-bugs for hug day?05:44
dholbachkeescook: yes05:44
bdmurraykeescook: that is correct05:44
dholbachkeescook: being ubuntu-core-dev means that they should roughly know what they do, so it should be fine, if they propose themselves :)05:45
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evandmikmorg: what's the problem?05:46
mikmorgevand: actually there are 2 05:47
bdmurrayseb128: could you look at the valgrind log in bug 114678?05:47
ubotuLaunchpad bug 114678 in Ubuntu "memory corruption on ubuntu 7.04" [Undecided,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/11467805:47
mikmorgevand: casper and ubiquity both make the mistake of not installing the deb packages which are imported into /var/cache05:47
seb128bdmurray: looking05:47
mikmorgthe code is there, but its broken05:48
mikmorgseems that chroot is misused in both cases, although i've only really looked at casper05:48
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mikmorgevand: I'll let you know the bug # when I'm done w/ the writeup05:48
cjwatsonmikmorg: /target is mounted by the partitioning in ubiquity05:49
seb128bdmurray: the log is a debug one and shows an error05:49
evandmikmorg: I was just going to ask :)05:49
seb128bdmurray: but "/usr/local/bin/mu-mh/folders" is not an Ubuntu package, it's a local build05:49
mikmorgcjwatson: good morning, and thanks.05:50
cjwatsonmikmorg: I'm not seeing what's wrong with casper's use of chroot, but maybe I'm blind05:50
boenkiI'll just ask again if someone can have a look in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-panel/+bug/8521605:50
ubotuLaunchpad bug 85216 in gnome-panel "gnome-desktop-item-edit should change the Name= key" [High,Confirmed]  05:50
seb128bdmurray: I'll comment on it05:50
bdmurrayseb128: okay, thanks05:50
seb128you're welcome05:50
mikmorgcjwatson: it has me looking hard, too.. the paths are definitely messed up though.05:51
cjwatsonmikmorg: how so?05:51
mikmorgcjwatson: It is looking for /var/cache/driver-updates//root/var/cache/driver-updates/tg3_i386.deb, on line 35 of 40install_driver_updates in casper-bottom05:52
mikmorg(where obviously, the file resides as /var/cache/driver-updates/tg3_i386.deb)05:52
cjwatsonargh, good catch05:53
mikmorgthank you.05:53
cjwatsonI can fix that05:53
mikmorgI'll go ahead and report the bug - however,05:54
mikmorgI believe the bug is two-headed05:54
cjwatsonsure, it may well have a couple of bits05:54
mikmorgUbiquity doesn't seem to install it either05:54
cjwatsonyes, the code in casper/ubiquity-hooks/40install_driver_updates is nearly identical and needs the same fix05:54
mikmorgi was just investigating that part of it05:54
mikmorgyes, i assumed that was the case05:54
mikmorgso i'll report the bug immediately, seeing as how not much more needs said.05:55
cjwatsonmikmorg: do you have a bzr checkout of casper there?05:56
mikmorgbug #12021705:56
ubotuLaunchpad bug 120217 in casper "Driver Updates not being installed" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/12021705:56
mikmorgcjwatson: yes05:56
cjwatsonI'll check in a proposed fix in just a minute or two, then05:57
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mikmorggreat, thank you.05:57
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mikmorgI'll test it for you, however, i will just quickly remaster an already exploded iso instead of rebuilding casper05:58
cjwatsonmikmorg: even better05:58
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seb128ogra: there is a new gnome-power-manager available06:03
ograseb128, yes, thanks dholbach already pinged06:04
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seb128you're welcome ;)06:05
seb128I forgot that dholbach is polling on the update list quite often ;)06:05
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cjwatsonmikmorg: ok, committed, revision 38606:06
cjwatsonmikmorg: greatly appreciate you testing it out06:06
cjwatsonmount: Mounting /cdrom on /root/cdrom failed: Invalid argument06:07
cjwatsonthat's odd06:07
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cjwatsonthough actually it's probably because we already did mount -o move earlier06:08
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mikmorgcjwatson: great, I'll get testing.. it'll take a while for me to transfer files to my network though.06:14
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mikmorgcjwatson: i am not familiar with bzr... could you tell me how i can diff head to last?06:16
mikmorgnevermind.. i think i got it06:17
bdmurraycjwatson: I noticed that the initramfs doesn't include fdisk yesterday is there a reason?06:17
seb128mjg59: xserver-xorg-video-avivo include/radeon_reg.h is "Copyright 2000 ATI Technologies Inc., Markham, Ontario, and VA Linux Systems Inc., Fremont, California." but that's not mentioned in debian/copyright06:17
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seb128mjg59: "avivotool/xf86i2c.c: * Copyright (C) 1998 Itai Nahshon, Michael Schimek" also06:18
desrtseb128; hey.  what's up?06:22
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seb128desrt: hey, is the gdk compositing example supposed to work correctly on gutsy with GTK 2.11.2 or does it need some xorg patching?06:23
mikmorgcjwatson: I also have a couple enhancement requests from my team.. I will be posting them on launchpad today. Thanks for all of your help.06:23
desrtseb128; xorg patching06:23
desrtseb128; and some cairo patching, probably :)06:23
seb128desrt: it displays a red border and the content of the bottom layer on my desktop06:23
seb128but not on a button, and it's not refreshed correctly06:23
desrtcan you get me a screenshot, maybe?06:24
desrti'd expect it to simply display one of those regions that looks like the app died06:24
desrtlike a non-refreshing show-what-was-there-before thing06:24
desrtif that's the case then you're dealing with an X server that needs to be patched06:24
seb128desrt: alright, your description matches the behaviour06:25
seb128desrt: do you have a pointer to the xorg upstream patch maybe? ;)06:25
seb128and to the cairo changes we need06:25
desrtkeith wrote xorg-list saying he was merging the patch06:25
desrtbut then he didn't06:25
desrtand then he disappeared06:26
seb128ah, k06:26
seb128I read that he was going to merge it06:26
desrtcairo changes are trivial.  one moment.06:26
seb128and I though it was done06:26
desrti think behdad might have even merged the cairo changes last night06:26
desrthttp://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10329  <-- cairo06:26
ubotuFreedesktop bug 10329 in xlib backend "add support for "recursive" xlib surfaces" [Normal,New]  06:26
cjwatsonmikmorg: head to last?06:27
desrthttp://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg/2007-March/022423.html  <-- xorg06:27
cjwatsonbdmurray: probably just nobody came up with a good use for it yet. I think rescue mode and/or the live CD is better than trying to do that in the initramfs, TBH06:27
cjwatsonmikmorg: 'bzr diff -r385..386' gives you just that revision, though06:28
mikmorgcjwatson: thanks.06:28
desrtseb128; that previous patch was for 7.106:28
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desrtan improved (ie: bigger?) patch for 7.2 is here: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg/2007-March/022668.html06:28
seb128desrt: ok, thanks06:29
desrt^ keith saying he's merging it (???)06:30
mikmorgcjwatson: maybe you could tell me what you think of these ideas before i post them06:30
bdmurraycjwatson: What happened to me was my md arrays were not all started and I wasn't positive which partitions needed to be added.06:30
mikmorgcjwatson: (even though I probably still will ;)06:30
mikmorgWe also should file a new launchpad bug, enhancement request, to allow updated installer files to come from that same driver CD.  That way, we can patch the gold CDs at runtime with the driver CD.  Red Hat does this with their anaconda updates.img media.06:30
mikmorgand my favorite..06:31
mikmorgWe also should file yet another new launchpad bug, enhancement request, to allow that driver/updates CD to be a USB key. :-)06:31
cjwatsonmikmorg: first scares the willies out of me but I can see how it'd be useful06:34
calcwhat is the status of the hardware database getting a frontend, etc?06:34
cjwatsonmikmorg: second seems entirely sensible06:35
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mikmorgcjwatson: yes, the first would have been useful in cases such as this one06:36
mikmorgcjwatson: the idea of being able to manually overcome any problem in the installation process06:37
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mikmorg(without remastering)06:37
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cjwatsonmikmorg: yeah, though updating casper on the fly from inside casper could be tricky06:39
cjwatsonin excelsis06:39
mikmorgcjwatson: agreed06:40
mikmorgcjwatson: how about adding a scripts/casper-hooks folder, which a 3rdparty could install debs into06:41
mikmorgthat would be run right before casper-bottom06:41
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mikmorgthe driver disk could be checked for a 'casper-hooks' folder 06:42
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cjwatsonso, ideally there'd be something run before *sourcing* casper-bottom06:42
cjwatsonthen scripts in there could sed -i /scripts/casper-bottom/blah on the fly06:43
cjwatsonand yes, maybe have /scripts/casper-premount/10driver_updates copy scripts over from a defined directory on the update image06:43
mikmorgas long as casper-bottom is read OTF, after casper-hooks runs, there shouldn't be any problem06:43
cjwatsonand .debs06:43
cjwatsonit is06:44
cjwatsonsorry, I thought they were sourced for some reason, but they're not, they're just called. so that's ok06:44
mikmorgcjwatson: great. I'll post them in a bit. I'm burning the remastered Feisty right now06:46
cjwatsonmikmorg: would supplying updated .debs be a reasonable approach for you, in general?06:46
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mikmorgcjwatson: what kind of .deb are you suggesting?06:47
cjwatsonmikmorg: in this case, say, a fixed version of ubiquity-casper06:47
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mikmorgcjwatson: I'm not sure what "ubiquity-casper" encompases06:48
cjwatsonanaconda's updates.img apparently just has you supply *.py files in a flat directory structure, but our installer is a bit more modular than that06:48
cjwatsonmikmorg: ubiquity-casper is where the ubiquity-hooks scripts go; it's installation hooks for ubiquity supplied by casper06:48
mikmorgcjwatson: Ok, I thought that might be true. The only issue is, the hooks I'm suggesting would possibly require running before casper-bottom06:49
cjwatson(the concept is that if you were running ubiquity on top of a different live CD infrastructure, you could theoretically have that infrastructure provide hooks to repeat the appropriate bits of hardware configuration in the installed system; not that anyone's done this with anything other than casper AFAIK)06:49
cjwatsonmikmorg: yeah, I think we have to supply more than one set of hooks06:49
cjwatsonbecause anything running before casper-bottom can't get at /root06:50
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cjwatsonactually, hmm, that's not quite true is it06:50
mikmorgcjwatson: Exactly. If we had one set of hooks that ran before casper-bottom, we could use that set of hooks to install another set of hooks (ie. ubiquity-casper.deb)06:50
mikmorgSo I think the most important modification would be to allow hooks prior to casper-bottom.06:51
cjwatsonyeah, I think that's probably the common case though and that we ought to supply something special for that rather than asking people to roll it for themselves06:51
mikmorgthats fine, too.06:51
cjwatsonI certainly don't disagree that that is necessary and (logically) sufficient06:51
cjwatsonjust trying to explore what's reasonable as syntactic sugar, if you see what I mean06:52
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mikmorgthats fine06:52
mikmorgi'm just trying to reduce the work06:52
cjwatson*shrug* it's either wodge of code or wodge of documentation ;-)06:53
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mikmorgok, i'm heading out to lunch06:57
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bdmurraybryyce: what would need for bug 96213?07:13
ubotuLaunchpad bug 96213 in Ubuntu "won't install on Dell 640m with 1400x900 screen" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/9621307:13
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brycerrwell, we need to know what graphics card and driver he's using, so need xorg.conf and/or Xorg.0.log07:18
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brycerralso, if it is an intel graphics then whether or not 915resolution is installed07:19
bdmurrayokay, Xorg.0.log will contain chipset information for the graphics card then?07:20
brycerrhe says he does know how to make it install, so it would be nice for him to outline the steps; that should make it clearer what change is needed07:20
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brycerrI suspect it's a dupe of 373107:20
brycerr(or one of its variants07:20
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brycerrHobbsee, but whhhyyyy??  ;-)07:23
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brycerrlol :-)07:23
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brycerrbdmurray, I need to spend like a good week of quality time with 3731.  *sigh*07:24
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mjg59_seb128: Hm. Are you able to send me a copy of the packages again?07:26
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seb128mjg59: http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/xserver-xorg-video-avivo/07:53
mjg59seb128: Thanks07:54
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mikmorgcjwatson: Hello again.08:21
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gerundium/gerundium hugs all_you_great_developers_working_for_ubuntu08:46
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CMooneyI have beer and want to learn to hunt bugs.09:06
persiaCMooney: There's a lot of action in #ubuntu-bugs right now, despite the published documentation :)09:07
CMooneyah right, thanks.09:08
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brycerrhuh...  could someone do a ls -lh ~/.xsession-errors ?10:33
elmo-rw-r--r-- 1 james james 60K 2007-06-13 21:16 /home/james/.xsession-errors10:34
brycerrhmm, mine is 1.6G.10:34
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brycerrlooks like mostly due to "alarm-queue"10:35
seb128for how long is your session running?10:36
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seb128and what desktop do you use?10:37
seb128gdm cleans the file on login and it has a limit10:37
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brycerrseb128, less than a day (this is the dell 1505n laptop)10:37
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brycerrI'm using stock gnome ubuntu, running gutsy10:38
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seb128brycerr: that is weird10:38
seb128you use gdm to log in?10:39
brycerrthis is running compiz too btw, if that matters10:39
seb128no, should not10:39
brycerrI haven't installed the latest updates for evolution, maybe that'd fix it?10:40
seb128the messages are "normal"10:40
seb128what is not is that the error log takes 1.6G10:40
seb128it used to stop logging after a limit which was like 1M10:41
seb128maybe it's broken on gutsy10:41
seb128the amount of message is not normal though10:41
brycerrhmm, gdm appears not to be running10:41
brycerrl# /etc/init.d/gdm start10:42
brycerr * Not starting GNOME Display Manager (gdm); it is not the default display manager.10:42
seb128there you go10:42
brycerrok cool10:42
brycerrI probably turned it off to muss with bulletproof x stuff and forgot10:42
seb128so you are not using a stock install ;)10:42
brycerrheh, guess not ;-)10:43
brycerrhow quickly things diverge10:43
seb128I'll have a look at stopping evolution to print all those debug lines10:43
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seb128usually that's not really an issue since gdm clean things and there is a log limit10:43
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brycerrbtw, I'm poking around with the Wacom entries that are put into xorg.conf by default even when wacom's are not present10:45
brycerrseb128 (or anyone), do you have any idea why those are there?  I'm wondering if we just took them out, if it'd hurt anyone10:46
brycerrs/anyone/very many people/10:46
sparkiegeekis this the right place to ask about problems building a binary package from an "apt-get source <package>" ?10:46
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sparkiegeekmore specifically building meld and having issues with make and .po files10:48
seb128brycerr: no idea about the watcom thing10:49
tepsipakkibrycerr: mjg59 seems to be the one who did it :)10:51
brycerrtepsipakki, really?  interesting -- do you know of a debian bug id for it?10:52
mjg59_brycerr: Yes, it means tablets work10:52
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brycerrmjg59, can we conditionalize it so it only gets added to xorg.conf if a tablet is actually present?10:53
tepsipakkibrycerr: there was no mention of one, and it's one of our changes10:53
mjg59brycerr: Not trivially, no10:53
mjg59brycerr: Given that it doesn't break anything (or if it does, then it's something that's broken already...)10:54
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tepsipakkikde programs complain something, but that's harmless10:55
mjg59When we move over to hotplugged input devices, it's not as much of a problem10:56
brycerrwill the input hotplug allow us to safely drop it at that point?10:57
mjg59Not immediately10:57
tepsipakkimaybe, if the driver supports input hotplug10:57
mjg59Hal would need to be taught about them10:57
tepsipakkiso it is going to use hal after all :)10:58
mjg59Any policy manager that's sane for us is probably going to be hal-based, I suspect10:58
mjg59This may not be true of everyone10:58
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tepsipakkibrycerr: magnus vigerlof should know how wacom is doing hotplug-wise11:12
brycerrtepsipakki, ok11:13
brycerrtepsipakki, which package provides dexconf?  I see it's present in xorg-7.2/debian/local/, but that doesn't appear to contain the wacom changes11:14
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tepsipakkibrycerr: doesn't? It should11:15
tepsipakkiis it the vanilla debian version you are looking at?11:16
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brycerrahh, yeah, I get it11:19
brycerrI'd added debian experimental to my sources so I could track the stuff in experimental with my current versions page11:20
brycerrbut that screws up pulling source11:20
tepsipakkiyes, and you can't tell apt-get where to pull sources11:21
tepsipakkisince that doesn't work for source packages11:21
brycerryup, lil' bugger11:21
brycerrfortunately I have more ubuntu machines on hand ;-)11:21
tepsipakkijust do a grab-merge.sh xorg :)11:22
brycerrspeaking of which...  have you looked at fglrx?  I gather we probalby shouldn't merge xorg until we've upgraded fglrx11:22
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tepsipakkino I haven't, but now that you mentioned it.. there are some drivers which Provides: xserver-xorg-video11:23
tepsipakkibut it should be x-x-v-1.011:23
tepsipakkithen that change to xorg could be dropped11:24
tepsipakkibut sure, the newest fglrx should work with 1.311:24
tepsipakkimjg59: are you going to maintain the -avivo driver, or do you mind if the package is adopted by debian XSF?11:25
mjg59tepsipakki: No objection to that11:25
mjg59I just wanted it packaged so I could stop building it from source :)11:26
mjg59tepsipakki: Note that it only contains a couple of PCI IDs right now11:26
tepsipakkimjg59: ok, I'll pass that forward (same applies to libpciaccess)11:26
mjg59Should be safe to add more with some testing11:26
mjg59But r580 is still unhappy11:26
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bdmurraymjg59: I was looking at bug 119826 regarding Fn keys on a laptop.  Would that belong in hotkey-setup or acpi?11:27
ubotuLaunchpad bug 119826 in acpi-support "Fn key doen not work on compaq presario laptop in Xubuntu feisty" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/11982611:27
bdmurrayI swear it didn't used to have a package11:28
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mjg59bdmurray: Doesn't look like either11:30
mjg59bdmurray: For some reason, any time anything mentions acpi it gets assigned to acpi-support11:30
mjg59Despite it basically never being an acpi-support problem11:30
mjg59bdmurray: Arguably a hal issue, partially a kernel issue11:30
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bdmurraymjg59: Could you elaborate a bit or point me at something to read?11:32
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mjg59bdmurray: Something needs to send those events to userspace - it /could/ be done in acpi-support, but it makes more sense for the kernel to generate KEY_BRIGHTNESSUP and KEY_BRIGHTNESSDOWN (since that's all acpi-support oculd do)11:33
mjg59Then something needs support for editing the brightness via the acpi interface11:33
mjg59And then something needs to handle policy11:33
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keescookmjg59: how are most brightness buttons handled currently?11:44
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peanutb_20000 hugs to whoever closes bug 111:45
ubotuLaunchpad bug 1 in Ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/111:45
mjg59keescook: Either in hardware or via gnome-power-manager11:46
keescookmjg59: so it seems that "my brightness keys don't work" bugs are best filed against gnome-power-manager than acpi-support?11:48
mjg59keescook: acpi-support is always the wrong answer11:48
keescookhah.  :)11:48
mjg59It's either a hal issue or a kernel issue11:48
mjg59g-p-m ought to deal with any case that can be handled11:48
mjg59It just says "Oh, here's a backlight hal can control" and "Oh, I just got a keypress telling me to change the brightness"11:49
keescookis g-p-m running for folks with xubuntu?11:49
mjg59I have too little time to examine varient distros :)11:49
brycerrxubuntu needs no stinkin' backlighting!11:49
brycerr(sorry, couldn't resist)11:50
calcmjg59: hmm maintainer of acpi-support probably knows where to reassign the bug? ;)11:51
calcthrow the hot potato to acpi-support and it will bounce it to the right location, heh11:52
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cjwatsoncalc: I get the impression mjg59 has got fed up of doing that ;-)11:52
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mjg59calc: Right now I've got no time to handle any bugmail, let alone stuff that's been assigned to me because people have an insufficient understanding of how stuff works to assign it to the proper place in the first place...11:52
calci assigned some today to acpi-support, but at least one of them i think really belonged to it, unless hal is supposed to do it11:53
calcwrt potentially unmounting filesystems on hibernate11:53
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calcmjg59: ok11:53
calciirc it got marked wishlist in any case11:53
mjg59acpi-support is probably right in that case, though it'll be rejected as not being a bug :)11:53
calcmjg59: for that one in particular user hibernates ubuntu boots into windows changes files and resumes linux and doesn't see files11:54
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Chensondamn, bug #1 is still in progress. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1  *hehe*11:55
calcmostly user error since the vast majority of the time a file will be open somewhere on the fs so that it can't be unmounted anyway11:55
ubotuLaunchpad bug 1 in Ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/111:55
mjg59Yes. Don't do that :)11:55
mjg59Well, really the issue is that our entire approach to hibernation is broken11:55
mjg59I plan to fix that11:55
calcmjg59: eh?11:55
mjg59If anyone else can touch the filesystem, we shouldn't be keeping the file cache11:56
calcto force the user to boot back into ubuntu on power on? ;)11:56
mjg59Alternatively, we could make it impossible for anyone else to touch the filesystem. But that one might suck a bit.11:56
mjg59So I prefer the first11:56
calci didn't realize you could dump the file cache, that sounds like it could work out well11:57
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