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bryce_tepsipakki: btw, one thing I'm hoping to work towards with our xorg packaging, is to improve testing08:55
tepsipakkiyes, you mentioned that briefly..08:55
tepsipakkiwhat do you mean by that?08:55
bryce_before I started with ubuntu/xorg, I used to maintain a large automated testsuite for nfsv4, and I'm hoping to reuse some of those approaches for xorg08:56
tepsipakkitesting the code itself?08:56
bryce_well, I haven't 100% determined what would serve us best yet08:56
bryce_there's a lot of different ways to test things08:56
bryce_the key is to test for things we can actually do stuff about08:57
bryce_so like, just running xorg performance tests probably wouldn't gain us much08:57
bryce_(although it might not be a bad thing to do)08:57
bryce_the particular thing I've been looking at is just plain old "startup" tests08:57
bryce_e.g., given a new (proposed) xorg package, install it on a test machine, and try starting xorg on that machine08:58
tepsipakkithat would need a lot of hardware :)08:58
tepsipakkibut sounds good08:58
bryce_which is why I've been accumulating hardware ;-)08:58
bryce_I've got 4 working test systems, plus 3 more on the way08:59
bryce_(I call test systems 'sut's - Systems Under Test)08:59
bryce_anyway, I bring this up because if you know of or can think of other tests that would be worth running, let me know09:00
bryce_oh, aside from just having a lot of hardware, it can also be useful to run the same test with different parameters09:00
bryce_e.g. on an intel system, testing against -i810 and -intel, or with an ati or nvidia system, testing against both open and binary drivers09:01
tepsipakkican't think of anything, but I'll keep that in mind09:01
bryce_another thing to think about, is when you manually test something, to try to think, "how could I achieve this same test, but in a completely automated way"09:02
bryce_as we go, anything we can script, we can turn into a cheap test for using in the future09:02
tepsipakkimanual testing don't scale well :) (but OTOH it doesn't need to be run _that_ often)09:03
bryce_where automated testing can prove useful is when we're doing a release and want to have as many extra checks as possible09:04
bryce_obviously, those checks don't need to be automated, 09:04
bryce_but it can eliminate a lot of questions if it's scripted to the extent that it could be 100% automated09:04
tepsipakkiof course, scripting helps, it's just tricky to write good scripts for that purpose :)09:05
tepsipakkiI'm wondering if I should create a git branch for our xorg in git.d.o and push the changes one by one..09:07
bryce_I think that would be really, really, really useful and a very good idea09:08
bryce_I can set up my test system to auto-pull from git when there are changes, and automatically run tests against that09:08
tepsipakkithe metapackage has most of the changes, rest of the components just use patches so they are pretty trivial to keep for now09:08
bryce_I used to run this automated test system for carl worth for doing cairo testing, using exactly that approach09:09
tepsipakkijcristau: you awake yet?-)09:09
bryce_so I was thinking resurrecting that would be handy, so we'd have something at the application level to test09:09
bryce_but a lot of what you and I care about is going to be more at the integration/packaging layer09:10
tepsipakkiupgrades are also nice to test beforehand09:10
bryce_another thing I've thought about is hooking this in with vmware, so on a given hardware I can test against feisty as well as gutsy09:10
bryce_I've used this test framework (aka crucible) with xen, but not with vmware09:11
tepsipakkiah, build tests09:12
tepsipakkiit's silly to upload and then notice that the build fails for whatever reason :)09:12
bryce_also, I don't know if we care, but I've done some testing work with cross compilers09:12
bryce_honestly, I don't think anyone is going to care if we get errors/warnings on arm, solaris, etc. ;-) but that's something else we could test if we wished09:13
tepsipakkiI believe debian will test those :)09:14
tepsipakkiAIUI they are going to keep experimental as close to upstream git master as possible to make testing easier09:15
bryce_the thing I've learned with testing is that the key is in reviewing and following up on test results09:17
bryce_you can automate all the tests in the world and generate terabytes of results, but if no one follows up on the results, it's all worthless09:17
bryce_so the trick is to try to only run tests that actually matter, that you actually care about09:18
bryce_so that's where I can really use your help and advice09:18
bryce_just because we *can* run a test, the real question is if we care09:19
bryce_anyway, it'll probably be a few weeks before I have anything worthwhile to look at.  But when I do, please be critical - if it looks un-useful to you, say so :-)09:22
tepsipakkiok, I will :)09:22
tepsipakkitesting itself is a gray area for me, but I know how costly it is to leave testing for the end users09:23
bryce_cool, well this'll be a good thing to learn.  It's actually a pretty simple thing, it just seems strange and mysterious from the outside09:24
bryce_testing mostly is just useful for catching goofs09:25
bryce_but we all make goofs from time to time ;-)09:26
tepsipakkiyep :)09:26
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jcristautepsipakki: now i am11:10
jcristau(my sleep pattern is kinda fucked up, these days)11:10
tepsipakkiI was wondering if it makes sense to create a new branch for xorg and to apply the ubuntu changes there one by one11:13
jcristaui'm fine with that11:13
tepsipakkiok, I've just started with it11:14
tepsipakkiI guess it's easier to pull changes then11:14
ubotuNew bug: #20584 in xserver-xorg-video-trident (main) "xv output garbled [not regr] " [Medium,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/2058411:15
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ubotuNew bug: #96213 in xorg (main) "won't install on Dell 640m with 1400x900 screen" [Undecided,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/9621307:22
ubotuNew bug: #42607 in xserver-xorg-video-via (main) "Ubuntu Dapper on VIA EPIA-MS with LVDS; no video after installation" [Medium,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/4260708:01
ubotuNew bug: #45418 in xkbutils (main) "Restart of X gdm and freezing" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/4541809:10
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ubotuNew bug: #32152 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.15 (restricted) "Wireless networking suddenly broken" [Medium,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/3215210:00
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ubotuNew bug: #68319 in xorg (main) "Right button and middle click on mouse are swapped" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/6831910:51
ubotuNew bug: #49115 in xresprobe (main) "Max resolution not detected properly for IBM G78" [Undecided,Rejected]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/4911511:11
ubotuNew bug: #36525 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.15 (restricted) "bcm43xx Driver only works @ 11Mb/s" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/3652511:33
brycerrtepsipakki, I posted a patch to bug 42553 for conditionalizing wacom in dexconf, with explanation of why we aren't doing it based on mjg59's comments11:44
ubotuLaunchpad bug 42553 in xorg "wacom input devices enabled by default, why?" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/4255311:44
tepsipakkibrycerr: yeah, uploading with that change would be a regression for some wacom users, so probably not worth it11:54
tepsipakkiwe'll see how the input-hotplug progresses..11:54
ubotuNew bug: #103497 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.20 (restricted) "IPW2200 proccess 100% cpu ussage with no configured  network in the area" [Undecided,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/10349712:00
ubotuNew bug: #72705 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.17 (restricted) "kernel panic, system freeze on shutdown, vmware hangs..." [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/7270512:05

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