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mr_pouit@schedule Paris11:50
ubotuSchedule for Europe/Paris: 16 Jun 19:00: Xubuntu Developers | 19 Jun 21:00: Technical Board | 20 Jun 22:00: Edubuntu | 21 Jun 20:00: Mozilla Team | 21 Jun 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 23 Jun 22:00: Ubuntu US LoCo Team11:50
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nixternal@schedule chicago03:28
ubotuSchedule for America/Chicago: 16 Jun 12:00: Xubuntu Developers | 19 Jun 14:00: Technical Board | 20 Jun 15:00: Edubuntu | 21 Jun 13:00: Mozilla Team | 21 Jun 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 23 Jun 15:00: Ubuntu US LoCo Team03:28
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DarkSun88Hi all03:34
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=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Xubuntu Developers | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 19 Jun 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 20 Jun 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 21 Jun 18:00 UTC: Mozilla Team | 21 Jun 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 23 Jun 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu US LoCo Team
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j1mchi all07:03
j1mcsorry i'm a bit late07:03
j1mcwonky hotel wifi07:03
j1mchi all07:03
somerville32No problem. I'm just getting up from my nap07:03
j1mchi maxamillion07:03
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maxamillioni can only stay for an hour, i should have left town an hour ago to go visit my father, but i didn't want to miss the meeting07:04
j1mcwhat a guy... :)07:04
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vidd_laptopi thought the meeting was later....07:04
j1mchi luzi07:05
luzihi there07:05
vidd_laptop@schedual New_york07:05
vidd_laptop!schedual New_York07:05
j1mc@schedule New_york07:05
ubotuSchedule for America/New_York: Current meeting: Xubuntu Developers | 19 Jun 15:00: Technical Board | 20 Jun 16:00: Edubuntu | 21 Jun 14:00: Mozilla Team | 21 Jun 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 23 Jun 16:00: Ubuntu US LoCo Team07:05
=== vidd_laptop cant spell
maxamillionok, we are 6 minutes past time ... shall we get started?07:06
=== maxamillion worries he will have a loss of power ... the storm rumbles out side
j1mcwell, shall we go according to the agenda?07:08
somerville32One second, I'm going to relocate to somewhere more comfy.07:08
somerville32Please begin :] 07:08
j1mcfirst item up on the agenda ( https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings ) is the website07:09
j1mcdesafortunadamente, we don't have TheSheep here to talk about it...07:09
j1mcmaxamillion: do you have anything you'd like to say about it?07:09
somerville32I know that TheSheep mentioned that he wasn't working on it anymore because of lack of time.07:10
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vidd_laptopwb maxamillion07:11
=== maxamillion slaps his internet connection
somerville32Unfortunately, I can't make any commitments since I'll be leaving July 1st until late August07:11
maxamillionthanks vidd_laptop07:11
maxamillioni lagged out07:11
somerville32Otherwise, I'd just hack at the template myself.07:11
=== Hobbsee wonders if xubuntu-restricted-extras is of any use to anyone
j1mcyeah... maxamillion we were talking about the website, and how TheSheep hasn't been working on it due to lack of time.07:11
=== vidd_laptop does not understand the deal with the website....do we acually want to clone ubuntu?
maxamillionHobbsee: i've never heard of it to be truly honest07:12
Hobbseemaxamillion: because it doesnt exist.07:12
Hobbseemaxamillion: the resources are there that it can now07:12
maxamillionHobbsee: ah, i guess that is an idea i would have to bring up to jani07:13
j1mcHobbsee: can we come back to that a little later in the meeting?07:13
maxamillionj1mc: sorry07:13
Hobbseej1mc: of course.  just giving a heads up.  i'm actually heading towards bed.  sorry to hijack.07:13
maxamillionj1mc: what's the current order of business?07:13
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j1mcnp...  :)  thanks, Hobbsee... we'll be in touch about it.07:13
j1mcmaxamillion: we're talking about the website07:14
j1mcthesheep doesn't have much time to work on it, and cody is leaving soon.07:14
j1mcshould we just consider a .css refresh?07:15
vidd_laptopis it already decided that we ARE cloning the ubuntu site or is that still in the air?07:15
somerville32It would be easier to just use the new template.07:15
j1mcthere's a guy in chicago-ubuntu who is pretty good with drupal.07:15
somerville32j1mc: Aye. TheSheep isn't the only person who has the necessary skills07:16
somerville32I wonder what the other derivs. are doing.07:17
j1mcyeah... i don't want to sign anybody up who isn't at the meeting, but i bet we could get the word out amongst our respective circles.07:17
j1mcsomeone could help us...07:17
somerville32Do Kubuntu, Edubuntu, etc. have intentions to use the new template?07:17
maxamillioni thought he had already done the theme change, just needed to add a new logo icons07:17
j1mcgood question.07:17
Hobbseei think kubuntu is going to use the new template.  there's a spec on it07:17
vidd_laptopif i had this template...i could do the design...i guess07:17
Hobbseespec will tell of more details07:18
=== Hobbsee --> bed.
maxamillionnight Hobbsee07:18
somerville32maxamillion: Since you're the prime guy for the website right now, maybe you could create a specification and then we can all pitch in once you've got the framework done?07:18
somerville32I think we can all agree that we want the new template07:19
somerville32It is very professional, neat, clean, and lovely07:19
j1mcyes, the new template looks good. :)07:19
somerville32The question is implementation and the question of content07:19
vidd_laptopso then....when will ubuntu use it?07:19
maxamillionsomerville32: i thought we already had a spec for it? ... i could have sworn all this was said and done, there were just minor changes needing to be made to the drupal theme that radomir worked on07:19
j1mcvidd_laptop: ubuntu uses it already.  ubuntu.com07:20
vidd_laptopif this templete is as great as you make it out to be...then ubuntu does not have it up07:20
j1mcmaxamillion: you probably know better than the rest of us.07:20
maxamillioni saw a screenshot of the one radomir was working on .. it looked almost finished to me, i thought he was just cleaning up some css code07:21
somerville32I too saw it07:21
somerville32It was looking good.07:21
maxamillionsomerville32: then we should get that code from him if he's not able to finish it07:22
somerville32maxamillion: Do you think you could be responsible for ensuring that the new template is implemented for the release of Gutsy?07:22
=== somerville32 crosses his fingers.
somerville32maxamillion: aye07:22
=== j1mc waits as maxamillion types his response :)
maxamillionsomerville32: yes, i can commit to that07:23
j1mcawesome.  :)07:23
somerville32Awesome indeed.07:23
somerville32Thanks max07:24
somerville32Lets talk about the doc-browser07:24
somerville32j1mc: Did you and Admiral get to talk to some people in -doc again re: doc browseR?07:24
j1mcno, not really...07:24
j1mci am just not sure what all additional work is required on the spec.07:25
maxamilliondoc-browser, i like the idea, but we would need to get it sponsored by a core-dev in order to get it in main so we can distribute it in the release iso07:25
somerville32The first step is developing it07:25
somerville32They can't put it in main unless it is all packaged and in tip-top quality.07:25
maxamillionsomerville32: right07:25
somerville32Once we get to the that point, we simply need it promoted and added to the seeds.07:25
j1mca comment was left on the spec on the wiki stating that much more work was needed in the latter section, but i am not sure what all to add.07:26
somerville32j1mc: Link?07:26
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j1mc"The following sections need extensive work"07:27
j1mcnot being a developer, I'm not sure what to add.07:28
j1mc. . . once that is ready, though, i should put it up on launchpad, correct?07:28
somerville32You can put it on now07:28
somerville32I can even do it if you'd like07:29
j1mcit's ok... i'll handle it...07:29
maxamillionyeah, once its on there i will join it ... maybe even put together a draft of the code sometime next week07:29
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j1mccould either of you lend some insight as to what else would be needed in the spec, though? add a few additional comments?07:29
maxamillionmain issue is a proper search feature, shouldn't be too hard to code though ... but that will be the hardest part07:30
somerville32We don't need search07:31
somerville32If we use Topic Based Help, we should be A107:32
somerville32Search could be something added later07:32
maxamilliondoesn't yelp have a search feature?07:32
maxamillionah, ok07:32
somerville32maxamillion: ie. If we can get a stable release that can go into gutsy first, then we can focus on extra stuff07:32
j1mcmakes sense.07:32
somerville32j1mc: Did you create the spec on lp yet? :] 07:33
j1mcno, should i create it right now?  :)07:33
=== j1mc goes to create spec. :)
somerville32maxamillion: The UI needs heavy specing07:35
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maxamillionsomerville32: i agree07:35
maxamillionsomerville32: my honest plan is to mimic the yelp ui07:35
=== somerville32 ponders.
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somerville32We should get TheSheep's help on the UI. He is a UI god.07:36
maxamillionhe's just kinda an all around god, but yes ... he has alot of insight on UI07:36
somerville32Which is better then I07:37
somerville32I have nonme07:37
somerville32:] 07:37
maxamillioni have some ... i took a course last semester on human-computer-interaction and we covered ALOT of UI stuff07:38
maxamillionbut anyways, that's a tad offtopic07:41
j1mcah, sorry guys... anyone have a link to set up a spec?07:41
maxamillionwe need to draft a UI spec and add it to jim's spec07:41
=== j1mc looking... no luck yet.
somerville32j1mc: I'll do it real quick07:42
j1mcok... then show me how you did it.07:42
j1mcsorry, all.07:42
j1mcok... .want me to do it now?07:43
somerville32Already done07:44
maxamillionheh, i'm already assined07:45
maxamillionbleh ... i'm tired07:46
=== j1mc gives maxamillion some coffee
maxamillionspeaking of .... i should get some of that on my way out of town so i don't fall asleep on the road07:47
maxamillionok, we covered the website, and now the spec for the doc viewer .. next order of business?07:47
somerville32j1mc: How goes actual doc writing?07:47
somerville32And what was that I heard about us migrating to bzr?07:48
j1mcit is going fairly well - not huge progress, but we are moving along.07:48
=== maxamillion thought the docs were already held in a bzr repo
j1mcmigrating to bzr isn't going to happen, but i do have a question about getting our changes up...07:48
j1mcmaxamillion: they are in a subversion repo.07:48
j1mcsince we are changing so much of the documentation for xubuntu, i don't want to submit huuuge patches...07:49
luzican we have a look at it?07:49
j1mcwe're basically using current ubuntu docs as a guide...07:49
j1mcluzi: yeah... how do you want us to handle submitting patches?  just submit them all to the ubuntu-doc mailing list?07:50
j1mcthe thing is... i don't think that we're really submitting "patches" we're basically submitting new content.07:50
j1mcat least in terms of xubuntu . . .07:50
somerville32Thats ok.07:50
luzithat's patches too, just really big ones.07:50
=== somerville32 nods.
luzii think it'd be better to work in the official doc repo07:51
j1mcok... we'll submit our first set this week, and then get feedback, i suppose.07:51
j1mcluzi: i agree...07:51
luzinot start your own branch, and then find out someone else has worked on the official repo.\07:51
somerville32Once you start getting a few patches in (and show that you check your work), you'll get SVN access quickly.07:51
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j1mcbut basically we're using ubuntu docs as a base...07:52
somerville32As for creating your own branch, it IS possible that you could create a product and sync the SVN branch into a bzr branch07:52
somerville32Then you could use get a sponsor to upload your diffs (ie. patchs)07:52
somerville32But I figure you guys will get access soon enough anyhow07:53
j1mchmmm... yeah, that sounds like a hassle, though...  :)  i think it'll work out submitting patches up through the mailing list.07:53
j1mcwe'll see how it goes.07:53
j1mcas i said, freddy and i will start submitting what we've been working on this week.07:53
luzisounds good to me.07:54
j1mcthe good news is that we are meeting weekly, and we're learning docbook, and are making progress.  :)07:54
somerville32Awesome! Kudos! :)07:54
j1mcthe patch i submitted to the mailing list a few days ago was my first patch EVAR by the way.  :)07:54
maxamillionj1mc: congrats ;)07:55
j1mcnext topic?07:55
somerville32Keep us updated about doc status07:56
somerville32It lifts morale when one knows others are accomplishing things07:56
j1mcok.  i will.07:56
somerville32Which motivates them to do something productive too!07:56
j1mcit looks like we're missing our special guest.07:58
somerville32Disappointing, aye.07:58
somerville32Whats the other item on the list?07:58
somerville32More prominent add/remove in menu?07:59
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maxamillionwell, i need to get going ... i might be back later07:59
maxamillionit will be a few hours though, i have a long drive ahead of me07:59
maxamillionlaters all!!07:59
j1mcok, maxamillion thanks for your help.07:59
j1mcsomerville32: yeah, the add-remove item was on the list...08:00
j1mci think it's ok where it is, though...08:01
somerville32Who added the item?08:01
somerville32Well, I suppose we can discuss the items we were going to discuss with Cory08:03
j1mcwould you like to start?08:04
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somerville32I think there is a fundamental issue at heart08:05
somerville32It feels like, at times, it is the blind leading the blind and we happen to be just going in circles.08:06
j1mci do see some of the same issues being brought up again and again...08:07
j1mcand to me, it seems that items of little importance receive a good deal of attention.08:08
somerville32There is a recognized lack of direction. A lot of us, such as myself, simply don't have the experience to lead the develop of a distribution by ourselves. We aren't always aware of the resources available or the best way to do things.08:08
somerville32We all have good intentions but I think it would be hard to argue that there is more talk then actual do.08:09
=== j1mc nods
j1mci don't really know who does the work for xubuntu other than jani.08:10
somerville32I think it is just Jani and Lionel now08:10
j1mcthere seems to be a disconnect there for one thing . . .  who is Lionel?08:10
j1mcit's sad that i don't know that.  :)08:10
lionelmr_pouit, not me :)08:11
mr_pouityes ^^08:11
=== j1mc waves at mr_pouit and asks if he is lionel.
mr_pouityes, I am Lionel :P08:11
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somerville32j1mc: I agree with you. There is most certainly a disconnect.08:13
mr_pouitJani has very little time, that's why he never attends the meeting iirc.08:13
=== somerville32 nods.
somerville32Jani is very busy.08:13
j1mcmr_pouit and jani are doing the real core work for xubuntu it seems... it would just be good to know how to support them...08:13
j1mcand it seems like we have people at the high level, like jani and mr_pouit , but not many folks in between that and people at the end where there isn't much coding going on.08:14
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j1mci'm not sure what all else to say on this topic.08:15
mr_pouitthere are many things to do : merging packages from debian (I am taking care of that since the begin of gutsy dev cycle), "degnomify"ing apps (Jani tries to do this), but also bug triaging, translations...08:16
=== somerville32 nods.
somerville32Maybe we lose focus too often of what there really is to do?08:18
somerville32But at the same time, I still feel like there is something missing.08:18
somerville32A link along the way08:18
somerville32I guess the question is, why do people not know what to do when they know what they can do?08:19
=== j1mc phone
somerville32or *could do08:19
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j1mcthat's a good question, cody...08:22
somerville32It is a question I can only guess at08:23
j1mci think we could tackle it in a few ways...08:23
mr_pouitj1mc: I think the people "between" could be bugtriagers08:23
=== j1mc thinks aloud . . . :)
mr_pouitIt doesn't need coding.packaging skills, and it's very useful08:23
j1mcmr_pouit: agreed.  :)08:24
j1mcbut how do we encourage people to triage?08:24
j1mc... through the lists...08:24
mr_pouitand it doesn't seem that the bugsquad takes care of xubuntu bugs... many stays untriaged :/08:24
gpocentekhug days \o/08:24
j1mc... through xubuntu bugs days...08:24
j1mchug days, yeay!08:24
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gpocentekmake people jump in and triage Xubuntu bugs during hug days08:25
=== somerville32 pushes gpocentek into the bug pool for hugs.
j1mcbut also . . .  the mailing lists and the ubuntu planet could be used as means to give these topics some attention.08:25
somerville32j1mc: I agree.08:25
j1mcsomerville32: what's with you saying "Aye" ... are you a pirate now?  :-P08:26
j1mcno, i guess that would be Arrrg!08:26
=== j1mc was just teasing, somerville32 :)
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j1mcmr_pouit: you think that would help - bug traige?  this is a big need for you guys?08:27
somerville32mr_pouit, gpocentek: What about people on this "higher end" who want to package (can package and do), want to program (can program and do), and want to help _develop_ yet don't have the experience to do so.08:27
somerville32A good example is the network manager08:28
gpocentekj1mc: bug triaging usually leads to have a look at the packages too08:30
mr_pouitsomerville32: for packaging, there is the Ubuntu-motu-mentors ML, and there's the possibility to get mentored by a MOTU08:30
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j1mcone thing that was helpful during the run-up to the release of feisty was jani asked certain items to be tested.08:32
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somerville32mr_pouit: I can already package but I'd like to go one step further and start developing and implementing specifications.08:32
j1mcas cody mentioned before, knowing what others are working on would help further participation of others.08:32
j1mchelp build momentum...08:32
Toadstoolbug triaging is one of the best way in actually, if you don't stick to the click-on-LP part of the job, it gives you a chance to examine different kind of packages and gives you much more experience than just packaging some random app imho08:33
luzii've got to go. see you all!08:35
j1mctake care, luzi08:35
=== somerville32 waves at luzi
=== somerville32 nods at Toadstool
gpocenteksomerville32: my first steps with coding was fixes to xfce applets08:36
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=== somerville32 nods.
somerville32Ok :] 08:37
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j1mcso, a few things we can take away from this:  bug triage is appreciated by the developers, and we need more of it.08:41
j1mc... we could use some mentoring (?) for people interested in developing more... or advancing their development skills...08:41
j1mcwhat else...08:42
gpocentekyou can play with simple packaging tasks08:42
j1mcproviding a bit more prompting on what could be done may be helpful in generating more activity.08:42
gpocentekpackages updates for instance, not necessarily Xubuntu related08:42
=== j1mc nods
gpocentekif you want to develop stuff in *ubuntu, you'll *have* to be ready to touch packages08:43
gpocentekthis also means being around in #u-motu08:43
j1mcsomerville32: anything to add...  there's more, i know... these are not small issues, really...08:44
gpocentekfor Jani, Lionel and me, everything started with the MOTUs08:44
=== somerville32 nods
somerville32j1mc: I think we covered a lot of good ground today.08:44
j1mci think part of it may be that people might not think that they would be ready to be a motu.  or they don't think of it as something they could attain.  ??  or maybe we just don't have enough motu-minded people with us now.08:45
gpocentekthere's almost nothing in universe related to xubuntu08:45
gpocentekmain only08:45
mr_pouit2 or 3 panel-plugins08:45
gpocentekbut becoming a MOTU is possible for *everyone*08:45
somerville32It generally takes 2 release cycles though08:46
j1mcmr_pouit: i think that a note to the list every now and then from you and jani, just letting us know what you're working on, would be good.08:46
gpocentekyes, but it doesn't mean that your work is not applied08:46
somerville32gpocentek: aye08:46
j1mcalso identifying any areas that need help, testing, review, etc...08:46
somerville32Increasing xubuntu developer visibility would most certainly be helpful in regards to moral.08:47
j1mcit doesn't have to be all the time... but ... like i said earlier, it is weird to not even know who the core people are.08:47
j1mcand you do so much awesome work.  :)08:47
somerville32I think participation in some of the discussion (either putting out unproductive ones or supporting/steering productive ones) would be a plus.08:48
=== j1mc agrees
somerville32I'd like there to be less of a division08:48
somerville32And I think it may have been created by the unproductive discussions that occur on -devel sometimes.08:48
mr_pouitYes, sometimes the xubuntu-devel ml tends to become xubuntu-users :] 08:51
mr_pouitj1mc: ok for the note, I'll tru to do that08:51
somerville32mr_pouit: So, what are your feelings on the xubuntu-documentation-browser spec?08:53
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fijamit's been a while08:56
somerville32I'm sure it has08:57
j1mci've got to go, everyone.  thanks for time out of your days today... i think it was a helpful discussion.08:57
mr_pouitThis could be useful, but it would be worth knowing if people are really bored by Firefox slowness08:57
somerville32mr_pouit: I know I am.08:58
somerville32j1mc: ttyl08:58
vidd_laptopfrustrated...but never bored =] 08:58
fijamsomerville32: a lot of things popped up and I was unable to contribute to the documentation development08:59
vidd_laptopmr_pouit, are there plans to replace/trim FF in the near future?08:59
somerville32fijiam: Tis is ok :)08:59
mr_pouitWe should see this with Jani, but I don't think so09:00
fijambut now, once the exams are over I should have enough time to help09:00
mr_pouit(at least not for gutsy)09:00
somerville32fijam: J1mc and Admiral_Chigaco are really leading the way. They'd be super happy to get your assistance, I know they would.09:00
vidd_laptopbtw somerville32: i dont really have the time or know-how to work with getting the xfburn issue resolved....09:01
=== vidd_laptop has no idea where to even begin
mr_pouitvidd_laptop: you can speak with pygi from the ubuntu burning team09:02
fijamsomerville32:  I'll let them know that I am 'available'09:02
somerville32awesome :)09:02
vidd_laptopmr_pouit, and how would i do that...is it a mailing list....forum...???09:03
somerville32a person09:03
mr_pouitHe should be on #ubuntu-burning, but you can also mail him (https://launchpad.net/~mario-danic)09:04
vidd_laptopsomerville32, i KNOW its a person...but do i contact them via telephone, e-mail, irc?09:04
somerville32Ah. See above ^^09:04
somerville32I'd be interested in taking a look at xfburn too09:06
vidd_laptopits an awesome app...clean looking....09:06
vidd_laptopand LITE....09:07
vidd_laptopdoes everything but burn ISO's09:07
somerville32And hopefully we'll fix that :] 09:07
vidd_laptopunfortunantly....burning ISO's is all i use a burner for09:07
vidd_laptopsomerville32, have you ever burned an ISO from command line? and did it work correctly?09:08
somerville32No, I've never done that.09:09
=== gpocentek already did it
vidd_laptopcuzz if burning from command line works correctly...then it SHOULD simply be a matter of coding the UI button for "burn ISO" to call the proper CLI command09:10
vidd_laptopgpocentek, what is the proper commands?09:11
gpocentekthat's what xfburn does09:11
gpocentekwell, now it's wodim09:11
vidd_laptopgpocentek, but why does it not do it correctly then?09:11
mr_pouitcdrecord has many issues09:11
gpocentekvidd_laptop: no idea09:12
vidd_laptopgnomebaker is a front end for cdrecord....and it does not have this issue....09:12
vidd_laptopor does gnomebaker use something else for ISO images?09:12
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mr_pouitI think all cd recording apps still use cdrecord09:13
mr_pouit(except brasero in gutsy that switched to libburnia)09:13
fijambrasero may use libburn afaik09:13
vidd_laptopmr_pouit, what are the requirements for brasero?09:14
mr_pouitlibgnome and gstreamer09:14
vidd_laptopgsteamer is alot of overhead....and will take out gxine....our default media player09:16
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Burgundaviagstreamer also gets you the autocodec stuff, however09:17
vidd_laptopBurgundavia, i would rather install libxine-extracodecs09:17
vidd_laptopget all the goodies without all the bloat09:17
Burgundaviado we have definitive proof that gstreamer apps are more "bloated'09:17
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vidd_laptopjust check the memory footprint09:18
vidd_laptopand then we would also have to replace our media player09:18
vidd_laptopgxine cant run on gstreamer09:19
mr_pouitand find a gstreamer based player without gnome deps09:19
Burgundaviaok, just playing devils advocate09:19
vidd_laptopand i dont recall there being any app anywhere near as lite-weight as gxine that runs gstreamer09:19
=== vidd_laptop is off to see if he can fine a tiny bruner that can run it....without needing half the repository list to run
mr_pouitin gtk2 this is going to be hard... afaik, only brasero ans xfburn are still maintained09:23
somerville32Why is brasero out of the game?09:24
vidd_laptopit needs gsteamer09:24
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vidd_laptopinteresting....pygi runs the mailing list for the libburn-cutters09:25
vidd_laptopis libburnia in the repo's?09:26
mr_pouitlibburn & libisofs09:26
somerville32Welp, I think this here would be perfect discussion for #xubuntu-devel09:26
somerville32Now that Burgundavia is here, I'd really like to hear from him :)09:27
Burgundavianobody else objects?09:28
vidd_laptopnone here09:28
Burgundaviawell, somerville32 asked me to come and chat with you guys about community building09:29
Burgundaviathe key part of community building is basically that you need to provide things for people to do09:29
Burgundaviathe "if you build it, they will come" or "nothing breeds success like success"09:29
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 19 Jun 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 20 Jun 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 21 Jun 18:00 UTC: Mozilla Team | 21 Jun 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 23 Jun 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu US LoCo Team | 26 Jun 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team
Burgundaviawhat you need to ask is "if I were a new contributor, how do I get involved?09:30
Burgundaviato answer that, you need a bunch of small tasks to get people going09:30
Burgundaviafor instance, the bug team has got their "bitesize tasks" or KDE's Junior Jobs09:31
Burgundaviain that vein, here are some concrete ideas (I have no idea if you doing any of these or not)09:32
Burgundavia* tag xubuntu specific bugs as bitesized and then publish that list09:32
Burgundavia* get people blogging on Planet Ubuntu about the latest Xubuntu news (new programs, new artwork, etc)09:32
Burgundavia* define a few high levels goals for the next release09:33
Burgundaviasome people are drawn in by big ideas, others by small stuff09:33
Burgundaviadoes any of this make sense?09:34
vidd_laptopBurgundavia, now that you said it...its super obvious!09:34
vidd_laptop=] 09:34
=== somerville32 nods.
Burgundavianow, all of this takes work, time that is not going to actual development09:34
Burgundaviathat might feel like a waste (I just want to fix this bug, not tell somebody else how to do it) but it well worth the effort to teach people09:35
vidd_laptopBurgundavia, so true....09:35
Burgundaviaso, I kind of mixed in marketing xubuntu in, my 2nd point09:36
Burgundaviaan important thing to remember, is that whenever you promote or talk about Xubuntu, you need to talk about how people can help09:36
Burgundaviafor instance, when Jono is good at this09:37
Burgundavialook at his blog posts about Jokosher for examples09:37
Burgundaviaor my blog about OpenStreetMap09:37
Burgundaviafor instance, you were talking about burners earlier09:38
Burgundaviaone of you could write a blog about how you are searching for a burner and what the pitfalls you have run into09:38
Burgundaviaat the end of the blog post, ask for peoples help in solving this problem09:39
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Burgundaviathat make sense?09:40
Burgundaviaanother thing to realize is that you are going to loose people and gain people09:40
vidd_laptopit makes sense....09:40
Burgundaviabeing a volunteer project, the number of people you have is going to ebb and wain. The key part is that you attracting new people09:41
Burgundaviafrom a development POV, unloading as much work on other people is also a good idea09:41
Burgundaviathus working with upstream GNOME to make their apps run on stock GTK is thus a good idea09:41
mr_pouitJani has some problems to convince upstream to get his patches09:42
Burgundaviasome of that might require you do the hard work of integrating the patches and again, it is all about personal relationships09:42
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Burgundaviaany other questions?09:44
somerville32I'd like to know how to reduce the "running around with out heads chopped off" symptom that is a result of guidance and leadership.09:46
somerville32err.. lack of09:46
Burgundaviaah, ok09:46
Burgundaviawell, the best way to solve that problem is to do something :)09:47
Burgundaviahave a meeting wherein you define a few high level goals for the next release and then agree on them09:47
Burgundaviavoila! instant leadership, because you all know what you are trying to do09:47
Burgundaviaa goal might be: find and implement a burning app09:48
Burgundaviaor: improve basic documentation to make certain all major apps are documented09:48
vidd_laptopsomerville32, maybe we should put a "goal checklist" on the xubuntu site....09:48
Burgundaviayes, that would be awesome09:49
Burgundaviahow many of you have blogs and are on planet ubuntu?09:49
vidd_laptopcomplete with Task Leader column (with e-mail address)09:49
vidd_laptopnot i09:49
somerville32I don't but I guess I should09:49
Burgundaviaget one and get it on planet ubuntu and start blogging09:49
fijambtw is the xubuntu.wordpress.com an (at-least-partially)official blog? It seems to be somewhat abandoned.09:49
=== somerville32 nods.
somerville32no, it is not09:50
Burgundaviatalk about the latest development news, new deployments, etcx.09:50
vidd_laptopsomerville32, i will draw up a template for a "goal checklist" page....09:51
fijamah, ok. It is still a top result on google for 'xubuntu blog' query. Maybe something should be done in order to change it. The official xubuntu site is rather 'static' IMO.09:51
Burgundaviaah, yep09:51
somerville32I understand that certain individuals have been able to be accelerated in terms of acceptance to MOTU. Would that be available to xubuntu individuals who have demonstrated proficiencies?09:51
Burgundaviaa static website means nobody will visit it09:51
Burgundaviafor MOTU, you need to talk to the tech board09:51
Burgundaviafor ubuntu membership, I suggest you learn from the Brazillian team09:52
Burgundaviawhen one of their own comes up, they all comment on that persons user page09:53
Burgundaviait makes it so much easier to figure out whether or not to approve peope09:53
=== somerville32 nods.
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somerville32I think getting more "xubuntu" ubuntu members would be an A1 idea09:54
vidd_laptopubuntu membership?09:54
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Burgundaviafor that, you need a council09:55
vidd_laptopwhat is that?09:55
Burgundaviamuch like the Kubuntu one09:55
DarkSun88Hi all09:55
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somerville32Burgundavia: I don't think we really need a council at this time though, eh?09:56
somerville32We only have a dozen or so people involved directly09:56
somerville32(if that)09:56
BurgundaviaI would have to seriously look at how many people you have09:56
Burgundaviayou need a certain critical mass09:56
somerville32We don't have that :/09:56
Burgundaviamake certain you have all your core contributors as members first09:56
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mr_pouitthere are ~100 members in the ~xubuntu-users team09:57
vidd_laptopmr_pouit, is that the mailing list?10:01
mr_pouitNo, this is a Launchpad team: https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-users/10:01
vidd_laptophrm... i never heard of it b4....10:01
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Burgundaviaanyway, you should probably wrap this meeting up10:04
Burgundaviaif you want to chat with me privately or at another meeting, I can do that10:04
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somerville32Alrighty. Thanks a bunch :)10:05
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fijamIf i might suggest something at this point...10:08
fijamIMO it should be taken under serious consideration how to make the xubuntu website more attractive to the visitors10:09
somerville32We're implementing a new theme10:10
fijamwhen the official website doesn't draw attention and updates every major release, there is a feeling that 'everything is happening behind the scenes'10:10
fijamwhich may be just an antoher factor deterring people from joining the development10:10
=== somerville32 nods.
fijamthe form is undoubtly important, but the content is what is desperately needed ;)10:11
fijammaybe this is a topic for another meeting10:15
Burgundaviayes :)10:15
Burgundaviagiven you are at 3hours and counting10:16
somerville32:] 10:16
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fijamright, thanks for the meeting, and see you later10:19
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effraie@schedule Paris10:44
ubotuSchedule for Europe/Paris: 19 Jun 21:00: Technical Board | 20 Jun 22:00: Edubuntu | 21 Jun 20:00: Mozilla Team | 21 Jun 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 23 Jun 22:00: Ubuntu US LoCo Team | 26 Jun 17:00: Kernel Team10:44
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