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| mr_pouit | @schedule Paris | 11:50 |
|---|---|---|
| ubotu | Schedule for Europe/Paris: 16 Jun 19:00: Xubuntu Developers | 19 Jun 21:00: Technical Board | 20 Jun 22:00: Edubuntu | 21 Jun 20:00: Mozilla Team | 21 Jun 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 23 Jun 22:00: Ubuntu US LoCo Team | 11:50 |
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| nixternal | @schedule chicago | 03:28 |
| ubotu | Schedule for America/Chicago: 16 Jun 12:00: Xubuntu Developers | 19 Jun 14:00: Technical Board | 20 Jun 15:00: Edubuntu | 21 Jun 13:00: Mozilla Team | 21 Jun 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 23 Jun 15:00: Ubuntu US LoCo Team | 03:28 |
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| DarkSun88 | Hi all | 03:34 |
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| === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Xubuntu Developers | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 19 Jun 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 20 Jun 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 21 Jun 18:00 UTC: Mozilla Team | 21 Jun 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 23 Jun 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu US LoCo Team | ||
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| somerville32 | Cheers | 07:02 |
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| j1mc | hi all | 07:03 |
| j1mc | sorry i'm a bit late | 07:03 |
| j1mc | wonky hotel wifi | 07:03 |
| j1mc | hi all | 07:03 |
| somerville32 | No problem. I'm just getting up from my nap | 07:03 |
| j1mc | heh | 07:03 |
| maxamillion | hello | 07:03 |
| j1mc | hi maxamillion | 07:03 |
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| maxamillion | i can only stay for an hour, i should have left town an hour ago to go visit my father, but i didn't want to miss the meeting | 07:04 |
| j1mc | what a guy... :) | 07:04 |
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| vidd_laptop | i thought the meeting was later.... | 07:04 |
| j1mc | hi luzi | 07:05 |
| luzi | hi there | 07:05 |
| vidd_laptop | @schedual New_york | 07:05 |
| vidd_laptop | !schedual New_York | 07:05 |
| j1mc | @schedule New_york | 07:05 |
| maxamillion | schedule* | 07:05 |
| ubotu | Schedule for America/New_York: Current meeting: Xubuntu Developers | 19 Jun 15:00: Technical Board | 20 Jun 16:00: Edubuntu | 21 Jun 14:00: Mozilla Team | 21 Jun 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 23 Jun 16:00: Ubuntu US LoCo Team | 07:05 |
| === vidd_laptop cant spell | ||
| maxamillion | rgr | 07:06 |
| maxamillion | ok, we are 6 minutes past time ... shall we get started? | 07:06 |
| somerville32 | Aye. | 07:07 |
| === maxamillion worries he will have a loss of power ... the storm rumbles out side | ||
| j1mc | sure... | 07:07 |
| j1mc | well, shall we go according to the agenda? | 07:08 |
| somerville32 | One second, I'm going to relocate to somewhere more comfy. | 07:08 |
| somerville32 | Please begin :] | 07:08 |
| j1mc | ok. | 07:08 |
| somerville32 | Ok | 07:09 |
| j1mc | first item up on the agenda ( https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings ) is the website | 07:09 |
| somerville32 | Aye. | 07:09 |
| j1mc | desafortunadamente, we don't have TheSheep here to talk about it... | 07:09 |
| j1mc | maxamillion: do you have anything you'd like to say about it? | 07:09 |
| somerville32 | I know that TheSheep mentioned that he wasn't working on it anymore because of lack of time. | 07:10 |
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| === adam is now known as maxamillion | ||
| vidd_laptop | wb maxamillion | 07:11 |
| === maxamillion slaps his internet connection | ||
| somerville32 | Unfortunately, I can't make any commitments since I'll be leaving July 1st until late August | 07:11 |
| maxamillion | thanks vidd_laptop | 07:11 |
| maxamillion | i lagged out | 07:11 |
| somerville32 | Otherwise, I'd just hack at the template myself. | 07:11 |
| === Hobbsee wonders if xubuntu-restricted-extras is of any use to anyone | ||
| j1mc | yeah... maxamillion we were talking about the website, and how TheSheep hasn't been working on it due to lack of time. | 07:11 |
| === vidd_laptop does not understand the deal with the website....do we acually want to clone ubuntu? | ||
| maxamillion | Hobbsee: i've never heard of it to be truly honest | 07:12 |
| Hobbsee | maxamillion: because it doesnt exist. | 07:12 |
| Hobbsee | maxamillion: the resources are there that it can now | 07:12 |
| maxamillion | Hobbsee: ah, i guess that is an idea i would have to bring up to jani | 07:13 |
| j1mc | Hobbsee: can we come back to that a little later in the meeting? | 07:13 |
| maxamillion | j1mc: sorry | 07:13 |
| Hobbsee | j1mc: of course. just giving a heads up. i'm actually heading towards bed. sorry to hijack. | 07:13 |
| maxamillion | j1mc: what's the current order of business? | 07:13 |
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| j1mc | np... :) thanks, Hobbsee... we'll be in touch about it. | 07:13 |
| j1mc | maxamillion: we're talking about the website | 07:14 |
| j1mc | thesheep doesn't have much time to work on it, and cody is leaving soon. | 07:14 |
| maxamillion | ah | 07:14 |
| j1mc | should we just consider a .css refresh? | 07:15 |
| vidd_laptop | is it already decided that we ARE cloning the ubuntu site or is that still in the air? | 07:15 |
| somerville32 | It would be easier to just use the new template. | 07:15 |
| j1mc | there's a guy in chicago-ubuntu who is pretty good with drupal. | 07:15 |
| somerville32 | j1mc: Aye. TheSheep isn't the only person who has the necessary skills | 07:16 |
| somerville32 | I wonder what the other derivs. are doing. | 07:17 |
| j1mc | yeah... i don't want to sign anybody up who isn't at the meeting, but i bet we could get the word out amongst our respective circles. | 07:17 |
| j1mc | someone could help us... | 07:17 |
| somerville32 | Do Kubuntu, Edubuntu, etc. have intentions to use the new template? | 07:17 |
| maxamillion | i thought he had already done the theme change, just needed to add a new logo icons | 07:17 |
| j1mc | good question. | 07:17 |
| Hobbsee | i think kubuntu is going to use the new template. there's a spec on it | 07:17 |
| vidd_laptop | if i had this template...i could do the design...i guess | 07:17 |
| maxamillion | s/icons/icon | 07:17 |
| Hobbsee | spec will tell of more details | 07:18 |
| === Hobbsee --> bed. | ||
| maxamillion | night Hobbsee | 07:18 |
| somerville32 | maxamillion: Since you're the prime guy for the website right now, maybe you could create a specification and then we can all pitch in once you've got the framework done? | 07:18 |
| somerville32 | I think we can all agree that we want the new template | 07:19 |
| somerville32 | It is very professional, neat, clean, and lovely | 07:19 |
| somerville32 | lol | 07:19 |
| j1mc | yes, the new template looks good. :) | 07:19 |
| somerville32 | The question is implementation and the question of content | 07:19 |
| vidd_laptop | so then....when will ubuntu use it? | 07:19 |
| somerville32 | Pardon? | 07:19 |
| maxamillion | somerville32: i thought we already had a spec for it? ... i could have sworn all this was said and done, there were just minor changes needing to be made to the drupal theme that radomir worked on | 07:19 |
| j1mc | vidd_laptop: ubuntu uses it already. ubuntu.com | 07:20 |
| vidd_laptop | if this templete is as great as you make it out to be...then ubuntu does not have it up | 07:20 |
| j1mc | maxamillion: you probably know better than the rest of us. | 07:20 |
| maxamillion | i saw a screenshot of the one radomir was working on .. it looked almost finished to me, i thought he was just cleaning up some css code | 07:21 |
| somerville32 | I too saw it | 07:21 |
| somerville32 | It was looking good. | 07:21 |
| maxamillion | somerville32: then we should get that code from him if he's not able to finish it | 07:22 |
| somerville32 | maxamillion: Do you think you could be responsible for ensuring that the new template is implemented for the release of Gutsy? | 07:22 |
| === somerville32 crosses his fingers. | ||
| somerville32 | maxamillion: aye | 07:22 |
| === j1mc waits as maxamillion types his response :) | ||
| maxamillion | somerville32: yes, i can commit to that | 07:23 |
| j1mc | awesome. :) | 07:23 |
| somerville32 | Awesome indeed. | 07:23 |
| somerville32 | Thanks max | 07:24 |
| somerville32 | Lets talk about the doc-browser | 07:24 |
| maxamillion | anytime | 07:24 |
| somerville32 | j1mc: Did you and Admiral get to talk to some people in -doc again re: doc browseR? | 07:24 |
| j1mc | no, not really... | 07:24 |
| j1mc | i am just not sure what all additional work is required on the spec. | 07:25 |
| maxamillion | doc-browser, i like the idea, but we would need to get it sponsored by a core-dev in order to get it in main so we can distribute it in the release iso | 07:25 |
| somerville32 | The first step is developing it | 07:25 |
| somerville32 | They can't put it in main unless it is all packaged and in tip-top quality. | 07:25 |
| maxamillion | somerville32: right | 07:25 |
| somerville32 | Once we get to the that point, we simply need it promoted and added to the seeds. | 07:25 |
| j1mc | a comment was left on the spec on the wiki stating that much more work was needed in the latter section, but i am not sure what all to add. | 07:26 |
| somerville32 | j1mc: Link? | 07:26 |
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| j1mc | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Specifications/Gutsy/DocumentationBrowser | 07:27 |
| j1mc | "The following sections need extensive work" | 07:27 |
| j1mc | not being a developer, I'm not sure what to add. | 07:28 |
| j1mc | . . . once that is ready, though, i should put it up on launchpad, correct? | 07:28 |
| somerville32 | You can put it on now | 07:28 |
| somerville32 | I can even do it if you'd like | 07:29 |
| j1mc | it's ok... i'll handle it... | 07:29 |
| maxamillion | yeah, once its on there i will join it ... maybe even put together a draft of the code sometime next week | 07:29 |
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| j1mc | could either of you lend some insight as to what else would be needed in the spec, though? add a few additional comments? | 07:29 |
| maxamillion | main issue is a proper search feature, shouldn't be too hard to code though ... but that will be the hardest part | 07:30 |
| somerville32 | We don't need search | 07:31 |
| maxamillion | no? | 07:32 |
| somerville32 | If we use Topic Based Help, we should be A1 | 07:32 |
| somerville32 | Search could be something added later | 07:32 |
| maxamillion | doesn't yelp have a search feature? | 07:32 |
| maxamillion | ah, ok | 07:32 |
| somerville32 | maxamillion: ie. If we can get a stable release that can go into gutsy first, then we can focus on extra stuff | 07:32 |
| j1mc | makes sense. | 07:32 |
| maxamillion | right | 07:33 |
| somerville32 | j1mc: Did you create the spec on lp yet? :] | 07:33 |
| j1mc | no, should i create it right now? :) | 07:33 |
| === j1mc goes to create spec. :) | ||
| somerville32 | maxamillion: The UI needs heavy specing | 07:35 |
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| maxamillion | somerville32: i agree | 07:35 |
| maxamillion | somerville32: my honest plan is to mimic the yelp ui | 07:35 |
| === somerville32 ponders. | ||
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| somerville32 | We should get TheSheep's help on the UI. He is a UI god. | 07:36 |
| maxamillion | he's just kinda an all around god, but yes ... he has alot of insight on UI | 07:36 |
| somerville32 | Which is better then I | 07:37 |
| somerville32 | I have nonme | 07:37 |
| somerville32 | :] | 07:37 |
| maxamillion | i have some ... i took a course last semester on human-computer-interaction and we covered ALOT of UI stuff | 07:38 |
| somerville32 | Awesome. | 07:40 |
| maxamillion | but anyways, that's a tad offtopic | 07:41 |
| j1mc | ah, sorry guys... anyone have a link to set up a spec? | 07:41 |
| maxamillion | we need to draft a UI spec and add it to jim's spec | 07:41 |
| === j1mc looking... no luck yet. | ||
| somerville32 | lol | 07:41 |
| maxamillion | :P | 07:41 |
| somerville32 | j1mc: I'll do it real quick | 07:42 |
| j1mc | ok... then show me how you did it. | 07:42 |
| j1mc | sorry, all. | 07:42 |
| somerville32 | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+addspec | 07:42 |
| j1mc | ok... .want me to do it now? | 07:43 |
| somerville32 | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-documentation-browser | 07:44 |
| somerville32 | Already done | 07:44 |
| j1mc | thanks... | 07:45 |
| maxamillion | heh, i'm already assined | 07:45 |
| maxamillion | :) | 07:45 |
| maxamillion | assigned* | 07:46 |
| maxamillion | bleh ... i'm tired | 07:46 |
| === j1mc gives maxamillion some coffee | ||
| maxamillion | thanks | 07:47 |
| maxamillion | speaking of .... i should get some of that on my way out of town so i don't fall asleep on the road | 07:47 |
| somerville32 | <g> | 07:47 |
| maxamillion | ok, we covered the website, and now the spec for the doc viewer .. next order of business? | 07:47 |
| somerville32 | j1mc: How goes actual doc writing? | 07:47 |
| somerville32 | And what was that I heard about us migrating to bzr? | 07:48 |
| j1mc | it is going fairly well - not huge progress, but we are moving along. | 07:48 |
| === maxamillion thought the docs were already held in a bzr repo | ||
| j1mc | migrating to bzr isn't going to happen, but i do have a question about getting our changes up... | 07:48 |
| j1mc | maxamillion: they are in a subversion repo. | 07:48 |
| maxamillion | huh | 07:49 |
| j1mc | since we are changing so much of the documentation for xubuntu, i don't want to submit huuuge patches... | 07:49 |
| luzi | can we have a look at it? | 07:49 |
| j1mc | we're basically using current ubuntu docs as a guide... | 07:49 |
| j1mc | luzi: yeah... how do you want us to handle submitting patches? just submit them all to the ubuntu-doc mailing list? | 07:50 |
| j1mc | the thing is... i don't think that we're really submitting "patches" we're basically submitting new content. | 07:50 |
| j1mc | at least in terms of xubuntu . . . | 07:50 |
| somerville32 | Thats ok. | 07:50 |
| luzi | that's patches too, just really big ones. | 07:50 |
| === somerville32 nods. | ||
| luzi | i think it'd be better to work in the official doc repo | 07:51 |
| j1mc | ok... we'll submit our first set this week, and then get feedback, i suppose. | 07:51 |
| j1mc | luzi: i agree... | 07:51 |
| luzi | not start your own branch, and then find out someone else has worked on the official repo.\ | 07:51 |
| j1mc | right... | 07:51 |
| somerville32 | Once you start getting a few patches in (and show that you check your work), you'll get SVN access quickly. | 07:51 |
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| j1mc | but basically we're using ubuntu docs as a base... | 07:52 |
| somerville32 | As for creating your own branch, it IS possible that you could create a product and sync the SVN branch into a bzr branch | 07:52 |
| somerville32 | Then you could use get a sponsor to upload your diffs (ie. patchs) | 07:52 |
| somerville32 | But I figure you guys will get access soon enough anyhow | 07:53 |
| j1mc | hmmm... yeah, that sounds like a hassle, though... :) i think it'll work out submitting patches up through the mailing list. | 07:53 |
| j1mc | we'll see how it goes. | 07:53 |
| j1mc | as i said, freddy and i will start submitting what we've been working on this week. | 07:53 |
| luzi | sounds good to me. | 07:54 |
| j1mc | the good news is that we are meeting weekly, and we're learning docbook, and are making progress. :) | 07:54 |
| somerville32 | Awesome! Kudos! :) | 07:54 |
| j1mc | the patch i submitted to the mailing list a few days ago was my first patch EVAR by the way. :) | 07:54 |
| somerville32 | :D | 07:55 |
| maxamillion | j1mc: congrats ;) | 07:55 |
| j1mc | hehe | 07:55 |
| j1mc | next topic? | 07:55 |
| maxamillion | sure | 07:55 |
| somerville32 | Keep us updated about doc status | 07:56 |
| somerville32 | It lifts morale when one knows others are accomplishing things | 07:56 |
| j1mc | ok. i will. | 07:56 |
| maxamillion | thankies | 07:56 |
| somerville32 | Which motivates them to do something productive too! | 07:56 |
| j1mc | :) | 07:56 |
| j1mc | it looks like we're missing our special guest. | 07:58 |
| maxamillion | :( | 07:58 |
| somerville32 | Disappointing, aye. | 07:58 |
| somerville32 | Whats the other item on the list? | 07:58 |
| somerville32 | More prominent add/remove in menu? | 07:59 |
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| maxamillion | well, i need to get going ... i might be back later | 07:59 |
| maxamillion | it will be a few hours though, i have a long drive ahead of me | 07:59 |
| maxamillion | laters all!! | 07:59 |
| j1mc | ok, maxamillion thanks for your help. | 07:59 |
| j1mc | somerville32: yeah, the add-remove item was on the list... | 08:00 |
| j1mc | i think it's ok where it is, though... | 08:01 |
| somerville32 | Who added the item? | 08:01 |
| j1mc | VincentZekred | 08:01 |
| somerville32 | Ok | 08:02 |
| somerville32 | Well, I suppose we can discuss the items we were going to discuss with Cory | 08:03 |
| j1mc | sure... | 08:03 |
| j1mc | would you like to start? | 08:04 |
| === neversfelde [n=neversfe@nrbg-4db44554.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting | ||
| somerville32 | I think there is a fundamental issue at heart | 08:05 |
| somerville32 | It feels like, at times, it is the blind leading the blind and we happen to be just going in circles. | 08:06 |
| j1mc | i do see some of the same issues being brought up again and again... | 08:07 |
| j1mc | and to me, it seems that items of little importance receive a good deal of attention. | 08:08 |
| somerville32 | There is a recognized lack of direction. A lot of us, such as myself, simply don't have the experience to lead the develop of a distribution by ourselves. We aren't always aware of the resources available or the best way to do things. | 08:08 |
| somerville32 | Aye. | 08:08 |
| j1mc | yeah... | 08:08 |
| somerville32 | We all have good intentions but I think it would be hard to argue that there is more talk then actual do. | 08:09 |
| === j1mc nods | ||
| j1mc | i don't really know who does the work for xubuntu other than jani. | 08:10 |
| somerville32 | I think it is just Jani and Lionel now | 08:10 |
| j1mc | there seems to be a disconnect there for one thing . . . who is Lionel? | 08:10 |
| j1mc | it's sad that i don't know that. :) | 08:10 |
| lionel | mr_pouit, not me :) | 08:11 |
| somerville32 | Aye | 08:11 |
| somerville32 | lol | 08:11 |
| mr_pouit | yes ^^ | 08:11 |
| === j1mc waves at mr_pouit and asks if he is lionel. | ||
| j1mc | :) | 08:11 |
| mr_pouit | yes, I am Lionel :P | 08:11 |
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| somerville32 | j1mc: I agree with you. There is most certainly a disconnect. | 08:13 |
| mr_pouit | Jani has very little time, that's why he never attends the meeting iirc. | 08:13 |
| === somerville32 nods. | ||
| somerville32 | Jani is very busy. | 08:13 |
| j1mc | mr_pouit and jani are doing the real core work for xubuntu it seems... it would just be good to know how to support them... | 08:13 |
| j1mc | and it seems like we have people at the high level, like jani and mr_pouit , but not many folks in between that and people at the end where there isn't much coding going on. | 08:14 |
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| j1mc | i'm not sure what all else to say on this topic. | 08:15 |
| mr_pouit | there are many things to do : merging packages from debian (I am taking care of that since the begin of gutsy dev cycle), "degnomify"ing apps (Jani tries to do this), but also bug triaging, translations... | 08:16 |
| === somerville32 nods. | ||
| somerville32 | Maybe we lose focus too often of what there really is to do? | 08:18 |
| somerville32 | But at the same time, I still feel like there is something missing. | 08:18 |
| somerville32 | A link along the way | 08:18 |
| somerville32 | I guess the question is, why do people not know what to do when they know what they can do? | 08:19 |
| === j1mc phone | ||
| somerville32 | or *could do | 08:19 |
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| j1mc | back... | 08:22 |
| j1mc | that's a good question, cody... | 08:22 |
| somerville32 | It is a question I can only guess at | 08:23 |
| j1mc | i think we could tackle it in a few ways... | 08:23 |
| somerville32 | Aye. | 08:23 |
| mr_pouit | j1mc: I think the people "between" could be bugtriagers | 08:23 |
| === j1mc thinks aloud . . . :) | ||
| mr_pouit | It doesn't need coding.packaging skills, and it's very useful | 08:23 |
| j1mc | mr_pouit: agreed. :) | 08:24 |
| j1mc | but how do we encourage people to triage? | 08:24 |
| j1mc | ... through the lists... | 08:24 |
| mr_pouit | and it doesn't seem that the bugsquad takes care of xubuntu bugs... many stays untriaged :/ | 08:24 |
| gpocentek | hug days \o/ | 08:24 |
| j1mc | ... through xubuntu bugs days... | 08:24 |
| j1mc | hug days, yeay! | 08:24 |
| mr_pouit | yes | 08:24 |
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| gpocentek | make people jump in and triage Xubuntu bugs during hug days | 08:25 |
| === somerville32 pushes gpocentek into the bug pool for hugs. | ||
| j1mc | but also . . . the mailing lists and the ubuntu planet could be used as means to give these topics some attention. | 08:25 |
| somerville32 | Aye | 08:25 |
| somerville32 | j1mc: I agree. | 08:25 |
| j1mc | somerville32: what's with you saying "Aye" ... are you a pirate now? :-P | 08:26 |
| j1mc | no, i guess that would be Arrrg! | 08:26 |
| j1mc | sorry | 08:26 |
| === j1mc was just teasing, somerville32 :) | ||
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| j1mc | mr_pouit: you think that would help - bug traige? this is a big need for you guys? | 08:27 |
| somerville32 | mr_pouit, gpocentek: What about people on this "higher end" who want to package (can package and do), want to program (can program and do), and want to help _develop_ yet don't have the experience to do so. | 08:27 |
| somerville32 | s/./? | 08:27 |
| somerville32 | A good example is the network manager | 08:28 |
| gpocentek | j1mc: bug triaging usually leads to have a look at the packages too | 08:30 |
| mr_pouit | somerville32: for packaging, there is the Ubuntu-motu-mentors ML, and there's the possibility to get mentored by a MOTU | 08:30 |
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| j1mc | one thing that was helpful during the run-up to the release of feisty was jani asked certain items to be tested. | 08:32 |
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| somerville32 | mr_pouit: I can already package but I'd like to go one step further and start developing and implementing specifications. | 08:32 |
| j1mc | as cody mentioned before, knowing what others are working on would help further participation of others. | 08:32 |
| j1mc | help build momentum... | 08:32 |
| Toadstool | bug triaging is one of the best way in actually, if you don't stick to the click-on-LP part of the job, it gives you a chance to examine different kind of packages and gives you much more experience than just packaging some random app imho | 08:33 |
| luzi | i've got to go. see you all! | 08:35 |
| j1mc | take care, luzi | 08:35 |
| === somerville32 waves at luzi | ||
| === somerville32 nods at Toadstool | ||
| gpocentek | somerville32: my first steps with coding was fixes to xfce applets | 08:36 |
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| === somerville32 nods. | ||
| somerville32 | Ok :] | 08:37 |
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| j1mc | so, a few things we can take away from this: bug triage is appreciated by the developers, and we need more of it. | 08:41 |
| j1mc | ... we could use some mentoring (?) for people interested in developing more... or advancing their development skills... | 08:41 |
| gpocentek | yes | 08:41 |
| j1mc | what else... | 08:42 |
| gpocentek | you can play with simple packaging tasks | 08:42 |
| j1mc | providing a bit more prompting on what could be done may be helpful in generating more activity. | 08:42 |
| gpocentek | packages updates for instance, not necessarily Xubuntu related | 08:42 |
| === j1mc nods | ||
| gpocentek | if you want to develop stuff in *ubuntu, you'll *have* to be ready to touch packages | 08:43 |
| gpocentek | this also means being around in #u-motu | 08:43 |
| j1mc | somerville32: anything to add... there's more, i know... these are not small issues, really... | 08:44 |
| gpocentek | for Jani, Lionel and me, everything started with the MOTUs | 08:44 |
| === somerville32 nods | ||
| somerville32 | j1mc: I think we covered a lot of good ground today. | 08:44 |
| j1mc | i think part of it may be that people might not think that they would be ready to be a motu. or they don't think of it as something they could attain. ?? or maybe we just don't have enough motu-minded people with us now. | 08:45 |
| gpocentek | maybe | 08:45 |
| gpocentek | there's almost nothing in universe related to xubuntu | 08:45 |
| gpocentek | main only | 08:45 |
| mr_pouit | 2 or 3 panel-plugins | 08:45 |
| gpocentek | but becoming a MOTU is possible for *everyone* | 08:45 |
| somerville32 | It generally takes 2 release cycles though | 08:46 |
| j1mc | mr_pouit: i think that a note to the list every now and then from you and jani, just letting us know what you're working on, would be good. | 08:46 |
| gpocentek | yes, but it doesn't mean that your work is not applied | 08:46 |
| somerville32 | gpocentek: aye | 08:46 |
| j1mc | also identifying any areas that need help, testing, review, etc... | 08:46 |
| somerville32 | Increasing xubuntu developer visibility would most certainly be helpful in regards to moral. | 08:47 |
| j1mc | it doesn't have to be all the time... but ... like i said earlier, it is weird to not even know who the core people are. | 08:47 |
| j1mc | and you do so much awesome work. :) | 08:47 |
| somerville32 | I think participation in some of the discussion (either putting out unproductive ones or supporting/steering productive ones) would be a plus. | 08:48 |
| === j1mc agrees | ||
| somerville32 | I'd like there to be less of a division | 08:48 |
| somerville32 | And I think it may have been created by the unproductive discussions that occur on -devel sometimes. | 08:48 |
| j1mc | yes... | 08:49 |
| mr_pouit | Yes, sometimes the xubuntu-devel ml tends to become xubuntu-users :] | 08:51 |
| mr_pouit | j1mc: ok for the note, I'll tru to do that | 08:51 |
| mr_pouit | *try | 08:51 |
| somerville32 | splendid | 08:51 |
| j1mc | :) | 08:51 |
| somerville32 | mr_pouit: So, what are your feelings on the xubuntu-documentation-browser spec? | 08:53 |
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| fijam | hello | 08:56 |
| somerville32 | Hello | 08:56 |
| fijam | it's been a while | 08:56 |
| somerville32 | I'm sure it has | 08:57 |
| j1mc | i've got to go, everyone. thanks for time out of your days today... i think it was a helpful discussion. | 08:57 |
| mr_pouit | This could be useful, but it would be worth knowing if people are really bored by Firefox slowness | 08:57 |
| somerville32 | mr_pouit: I know I am. | 08:58 |
| vidd_laptop | board?? | 08:58 |
| somerville32 | j1mc: ttyl | 08:58 |
| vidd_laptop | frustrated...but never bored =] | 08:58 |
| j1mc | bye! | 08:58 |
| fijam | somerville32: a lot of things popped up and I was unable to contribute to the documentation development | 08:59 |
| vidd_laptop | mr_pouit, are there plans to replace/trim FF in the near future? | 08:59 |
| somerville32 | fijiam: Tis is ok :) | 08:59 |
| mr_pouit | We should see this with Jani, but I don't think so | 09:00 |
| fijam | but now, once the exams are over I should have enough time to help | 09:00 |
| mr_pouit | (at least not for gutsy) | 09:00 |
| somerville32 | fijam: J1mc and Admiral_Chigaco are really leading the way. They'd be super happy to get your assistance, I know they would. | 09:00 |
| vidd_laptop | btw somerville32: i dont really have the time or know-how to work with getting the xfburn issue resolved.... | 09:01 |
| === vidd_laptop has no idea where to even begin | ||
| vidd_laptop | =\ | 09:01 |
| mr_pouit | vidd_laptop: you can speak with pygi from the ubuntu burning team | 09:02 |
| fijam | somerville32: I'll let them know that I am 'available' | 09:02 |
| somerville32 | awesome :) | 09:02 |
| vidd_laptop | mr_pouit, and how would i do that...is it a mailing list....forum...??? | 09:03 |
| somerville32 | a person | 09:03 |
| mr_pouit | He should be on #ubuntu-burning, but you can also mail him (https://launchpad.net/~mario-danic) | 09:04 |
| vidd_laptop | somerville32, i KNOW its a person...but do i contact them via telephone, e-mail, irc? | 09:04 |
| somerville32 | Ah. See above ^^ | 09:04 |
| vidd_laptop | bookmarked | 09:05 |
| somerville32 | I'd be interested in taking a look at xfburn too | 09:06 |
| vidd_laptop | its an awesome app...clean looking.... | 09:06 |
| vidd_laptop | and LITE.... | 09:07 |
| vidd_laptop | does everything but burn ISO's | 09:07 |
| somerville32 | And hopefully we'll fix that :] | 09:07 |
| vidd_laptop | unfortunantly....burning ISO's is all i use a burner for | 09:07 |
| vidd_laptop | somerville32, have you ever burned an ISO from command line? and did it work correctly? | 09:08 |
| somerville32 | No, I've never done that. | 09:09 |
| === gpocentek already did it | ||
| vidd_laptop | cuzz if burning from command line works correctly...then it SHOULD simply be a matter of coding the UI button for "burn ISO" to call the proper CLI command | 09:10 |
| vidd_laptop | gpocentek, what is the proper commands? | 09:11 |
| gpocentek | that's what xfburn does | 09:11 |
| gpocentek | cdrecord | 09:11 |
| gpocentek | well, now it's wodim | 09:11 |
| vidd_laptop | gpocentek, but why does it not do it correctly then? | 09:11 |
| mr_pouit | cdrecord has many issues | 09:11 |
| gpocentek | vidd_laptop: no idea | 09:12 |
| vidd_laptop | gnomebaker is a front end for cdrecord....and it does not have this issue.... | 09:12 |
| vidd_laptop | or does gnomebaker use something else for ISO images? | 09:12 |
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| mr_pouit | I think all cd recording apps still use cdrecord | 09:13 |
| mr_pouit | (except brasero in gutsy that switched to libburnia) | 09:13 |
| fijam | brasero may use libburn afaik | 09:13 |
| fijam | yeah | 09:13 |
| vidd_laptop | mr_pouit, what are the requirements for brasero? | 09:14 |
| mr_pouit | libgnome and gstreamer | 09:14 |
| vidd_laptop | gsteamer is alot of overhead....and will take out gxine....our default media player | 09:16 |
| mr_pouit | yes | 09:16 |
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| Burgundavia | gstreamer also gets you the autocodec stuff, however | 09:17 |
| vidd_laptop | Burgundavia, i would rather install libxine-extracodecs | 09:17 |
| vidd_laptop | get all the goodies without all the bloat | 09:17 |
| Burgundavia | do we have definitive proof that gstreamer apps are more "bloated' | 09:17 |
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| vidd_laptop | just check the memory footprint | 09:18 |
| vidd_laptop | and then we would also have to replace our media player | 09:18 |
| vidd_laptop | gxine cant run on gstreamer | 09:19 |
| Burgundavia | right | 09:19 |
| mr_pouit | and find a gstreamer based player without gnome deps | 09:19 |
| Burgundavia | heh | 09:19 |
| Burgundavia | ok, just playing devils advocate | 09:19 |
| vidd_laptop | and i dont recall there being any app anywhere near as lite-weight as gxine that runs gstreamer | 09:19 |
| vidd_laptop | libburnia..... | 09:20 |
| === vidd_laptop is off to see if he can fine a tiny bruner that can run it....without needing half the repository list to run | ||
| vidd_laptop | *burner | 09:22 |
| somerville32 | Splendid | 09:22 |
| mr_pouit | in gtk2 this is going to be hard... afaik, only brasero ans xfburn are still maintained | 09:23 |
| mr_pouit | *and | 09:23 |
| somerville32 | Why is brasero out of the game? | 09:24 |
| vidd_laptop | it needs gsteamer | 09:24 |
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| vidd_laptop | interesting....pygi runs the mailing list for the libburn-cutters | 09:25 |
| vidd_laptop | is libburnia in the repo's? | 09:26 |
| mr_pouit | yes | 09:26 |
| mr_pouit | libburn & libisofs | 09:26 |
| somerville32 | Welp, I think this here would be perfect discussion for #xubuntu-devel | 09:26 |
| somerville32 | Now that Burgundavia is here, I'd really like to hear from him :) | 09:27 |
| Burgundavia | right | 09:27 |
| Burgundavia | nobody else objects? | 09:28 |
| vidd_laptop | none here | 09:28 |
| Burgundavia | ok | 09:29 |
| Burgundavia | well, somerville32 asked me to come and chat with you guys about community building | 09:29 |
| somerville32 | \o/ | 09:29 |
| Burgundavia | the key part of community building is basically that you need to provide things for people to do | 09:29 |
| Burgundavia | the "if you build it, they will come" or "nothing breeds success like success" | 09:29 |
| === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 19 Jun 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 20 Jun 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 21 Jun 18:00 UTC: Mozilla Team | 21 Jun 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 23 Jun 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu US LoCo Team | 26 Jun 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | ||
| Burgundavia | what you need to ask is "if I were a new contributor, how do I get involved? | 09:30 |
| Burgundavia | " | 09:30 |
| Burgundavia | to answer that, you need a bunch of small tasks to get people going | 09:30 |
| Burgundavia | for instance, the bug team has got their "bitesize tasks" or KDE's Junior Jobs | 09:31 |
| Burgundavia | in that vein, here are some concrete ideas (I have no idea if you doing any of these or not) | 09:32 |
| Burgundavia | * tag xubuntu specific bugs as bitesized and then publish that list | 09:32 |
| Burgundavia | * get people blogging on Planet Ubuntu about the latest Xubuntu news (new programs, new artwork, etc) | 09:32 |
| Burgundavia | * define a few high levels goals for the next release | 09:33 |
| Burgundavia | some people are drawn in by big ideas, others by small stuff | 09:33 |
| Burgundavia | does any of this make sense? | 09:34 |
| vidd_laptop | Burgundavia, now that you said it...its super obvious! | 09:34 |
| vidd_laptop | =] | 09:34 |
| === somerville32 nods. | ||
| Burgundavia | now, all of this takes work, time that is not going to actual development | 09:34 |
| Burgundavia | that might feel like a waste (I just want to fix this bug, not tell somebody else how to do it) but it well worth the effort to teach people | 09:35 |
| vidd_laptop | Burgundavia, so true.... | 09:35 |
| Burgundavia | so, I kind of mixed in marketing xubuntu in, my 2nd point | 09:36 |
| Burgundavia | an important thing to remember, is that whenever you promote or talk about Xubuntu, you need to talk about how people can help | 09:36 |
| Burgundavia | for instance, when Jono is good at this | 09:37 |
| Burgundavia | look at his blog posts about Jokosher for examples | 09:37 |
| Burgundavia | or my blog about OpenStreetMap | 09:37 |
| Burgundavia | for instance, you were talking about burners earlier | 09:38 |
| Burgundavia | one of you could write a blog about how you are searching for a burner and what the pitfalls you have run into | 09:38 |
| Burgundavia | at the end of the blog post, ask for peoples help in solving this problem | 09:39 |
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| Burgundavia | that make sense? | 09:40 |
| fijam | certainly | 09:40 |
| Burgundavia | another thing to realize is that you are going to loose people and gain people | 09:40 |
| vidd_laptop | it makes sense.... | 09:40 |
| Burgundavia | being a volunteer project, the number of people you have is going to ebb and wain. The key part is that you attracting new people | 09:41 |
| Burgundavia | from a development POV, unloading as much work on other people is also a good idea | 09:41 |
| Burgundavia | thus working with upstream GNOME to make their apps run on stock GTK is thus a good idea | 09:41 |
| mr_pouit | Jani has some problems to convince upstream to get his patches | 09:42 |
| Burgundavia | some of that might require you do the hard work of integrating the patches and again, it is all about personal relationships | 09:42 |
| Burgundavia | brb | 09:43 |
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| Burgundavia | back | 09:44 |
| Burgundavia | any other questions? | 09:44 |
| somerville32 | Aye | 09:45 |
| somerville32 | I'd like to know how to reduce the "running around with out heads chopped off" symptom that is a result of guidance and leadership. | 09:46 |
| somerville32 | err.. lack of | 09:46 |
| Burgundavia | ah, ok | 09:46 |
| Burgundavia | well, the best way to solve that problem is to do something :) | 09:47 |
| Burgundavia | have a meeting wherein you define a few high level goals for the next release and then agree on them | 09:47 |
| Burgundavia | voila! instant leadership, because you all know what you are trying to do | 09:47 |
| Burgundavia | a goal might be: find and implement a burning app | 09:48 |
| Burgundavia | or: improve basic documentation to make certain all major apps are documented | 09:48 |
| vidd_laptop | somerville32, maybe we should put a "goal checklist" on the xubuntu site.... | 09:48 |
| Burgundavia | yes, that would be awesome | 09:49 |
| Burgundavia | how many of you have blogs and are on planet ubuntu? | 09:49 |
| vidd_laptop | complete with Task Leader column (with e-mail address) | 09:49 |
| vidd_laptop | not i | 09:49 |
| somerville32 | I don't but I guess I should | 09:49 |
| Burgundavia | get one and get it on planet ubuntu and start blogging | 09:49 |
| fijam | btw is the xubuntu.wordpress.com an (at-least-partially)official blog? It seems to be somewhat abandoned. | 09:49 |
| === somerville32 nods. | ||
| somerville32 | no, it is not | 09:50 |
| Burgundavia | talk about the latest development news, new deployments, etcx. | 09:50 |
| vidd_laptop | somerville32, i will draw up a template for a "goal checklist" page.... | 09:51 |
| fijam | ah, ok. It is still a top result on google for 'xubuntu blog' query. Maybe something should be done in order to change it. The official xubuntu site is rather 'static' IMO. | 09:51 |
| Burgundavia | ah, yep | 09:51 |
| somerville32 | I understand that certain individuals have been able to be accelerated in terms of acceptance to MOTU. Would that be available to xubuntu individuals who have demonstrated proficiencies? | 09:51 |
| Burgundavia | a static website means nobody will visit it | 09:51 |
| Burgundavia | for MOTU, you need to talk to the tech board | 09:51 |
| Burgundavia | for ubuntu membership, I suggest you learn from the Brazillian team | 09:52 |
| Burgundavia | when one of their own comes up, they all comment on that persons user page | 09:53 |
| Burgundavia | it makes it so much easier to figure out whether or not to approve peope | 09:53 |
| === somerville32 nods. | ||
| === fijam is now known as fijamoto | ||
| somerville32 | I think getting more "xubuntu" ubuntu members would be an A1 idea | 09:54 |
| vidd_laptop | ubuntu membership? | 09:54 |
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| Burgundavia | for that, you need a council | 09:55 |
| vidd_laptop | what is that? | 09:55 |
| Burgundavia | much like the Kubuntu one | 09:55 |
| DarkSun88 | Hi all | 09:55 |
| === fijamoto is now known as fijam | ||
| somerville32 | Hiya | 09:56 |
| fijam | hello | 09:56 |
| somerville32 | Burgundavia: I don't think we really need a council at this time though, eh? | 09:56 |
| somerville32 | We only have a dozen or so people involved directly | 09:56 |
| somerville32 | (if that) | 09:56 |
| Burgundavia | I would have to seriously look at how many people you have | 09:56 |
| Burgundavia | you need a certain critical mass | 09:56 |
| somerville32 | We don't have that :/ | 09:56 |
| Burgundavia | make certain you have all your core contributors as members first | 09:56 |
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| mr_pouit | there are ~100 members in the ~xubuntu-users team | 09:57 |
| vidd_laptop | mr_pouit, is that the mailing list? | 10:01 |
| somerville32 | No | 10:01 |
| mr_pouit | No, this is a Launchpad team: https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-users/ | 10:01 |
| vidd_laptop | hrm... i never heard of it b4.... | 10:01 |
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| Burgundavia | anyway, you should probably wrap this meeting up | 10:04 |
| Burgundavia | if you want to chat with me privately or at another meeting, I can do that | 10:04 |
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| somerville32 | Alrighty. Thanks a bunch :) | 10:05 |
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| fijam | If i might suggest something at this point... | 10:08 |
| fijam | IMO it should be taken under serious consideration how to make the xubuntu website more attractive to the visitors | 10:09 |
| somerville32 | We're implementing a new theme | 10:10 |
| fijam | when the official website doesn't draw attention and updates every major release, there is a feeling that 'everything is happening behind the scenes' | 10:10 |
| fijam | which may be just an antoher factor deterring people from joining the development | 10:10 |
| fijam | s/antoher/another | 10:11 |
| === somerville32 nods. | ||
| Burgundavia | yep | 10:11 |
| fijam | the form is undoubtly important, but the content is what is desperately needed ;) | 10:11 |
| fijam | maybe this is a topic for another meeting | 10:15 |
| Burgundavia | yes :) | 10:15 |
| Burgundavia | given you are at 3hours and counting | 10:16 |
| somerville32 | :] | 10:16 |
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| fijam | right, thanks for the meeting, and see you later | 10:19 |
| Burgundavia | cya | 10:19 |
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| effraie | @schedule Paris | 10:44 |
| ubotu | Schedule for Europe/Paris: 19 Jun 21:00: Technical Board | 20 Jun 22:00: Edubuntu | 21 Jun 20:00: Mozilla Team | 21 Jun 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 23 Jun 22:00: Ubuntu US LoCo Team | 26 Jun 17:00: Kernel Team | 10:44 |
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