[11:50] <mr_pouit> @schedule Paris
[11:50] <ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Paris: 16 Jun 19:00: Xubuntu Developers | 19 Jun 21:00: Technical Board | 20 Jun 22:00: Edubuntu | 21 Jun 20:00: Mozilla Team | 21 Jun 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 23 Jun 22:00: Ubuntu US LoCo Team
[03:28] <nixternal> @schedule chicago
[03:28] <ubotu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 16 Jun 12:00: Xubuntu Developers | 19 Jun 14:00: Technical Board | 20 Jun 15:00: Edubuntu | 21 Jun 13:00: Mozilla Team | 21 Jun 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 23 Jun 15:00: Ubuntu US LoCo Team
[03:34] <DarkSun88> Hi all
[07:02] <somerville32> Cheers
[07:03] <j1mc> hi all
[07:03] <j1mc> sorry i'm a bit late
[07:03] <j1mc> wonky hotel wifi
[07:03] <j1mc> hi all
[07:03] <somerville32> No problem. I'm just getting up from my nap
[07:03] <j1mc> heh
[07:03] <maxamillion> hello
[07:03] <j1mc> hi maxamillion
[07:04] <maxamillion> i can only stay for an hour, i should have left town an hour ago to go visit my father, but i didn't want to miss the meeting
[07:04] <j1mc> what a guy... :)
[07:04] <vidd_laptop> i thought the meeting was later....
[07:05] <j1mc> hi luzi
[07:05] <luzi> hi there
[07:05] <vidd_laptop> @schedual New_york
[07:05] <vidd_laptop> !schedual New_York
[07:05] <j1mc> @schedule New_york
[07:05] <maxamillion> schedule*
[07:05] <ubotu> Schedule for America/New_York: Current meeting: Xubuntu Developers | 19 Jun 15:00: Technical Board | 20 Jun 16:00: Edubuntu | 21 Jun 14:00: Mozilla Team | 21 Jun 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 23 Jun 16:00: Ubuntu US LoCo Team
[07:06] <maxamillion> rgr
[07:06] <maxamillion> ok, we are 6 minutes past time ... shall we get started?
[07:07] <somerville32> Aye.
[07:07] <j1mc> sure...
[07:08] <j1mc> well, shall we go according to the agenda?
[07:08] <somerville32> One second, I'm going to relocate to somewhere more comfy.
[07:08] <somerville32> Please begin :] 
[07:08] <j1mc> ok.
[07:09] <somerville32> Ok
[07:09] <j1mc> first item up on the agenda ( https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings ) is the website
[07:09] <somerville32> Aye.
[07:09] <j1mc> desafortunadamente, we don't have TheSheep here to talk about it...
[07:09] <j1mc> maxamillion: do you have anything you'd like to say about it?
[07:10] <somerville32> I know that TheSheep mentioned that he wasn't working on it anymore because of lack of time.
[07:11] <vidd_laptop> wb maxamillion
[07:11] <somerville32> Unfortunately, I can't make any commitments since I'll be leaving July 1st until late August
[07:11] <maxamillion> thanks vidd_laptop
[07:11] <maxamillion> i lagged out
[07:11] <somerville32> Otherwise, I'd just hack at the template myself.
[07:11] <j1mc> yeah... maxamillion we were talking about the website, and how TheSheep hasn't been working on it due to lack of time.
[07:12] <maxamillion> Hobbsee: i've never heard of it to be truly honest
[07:12] <Hobbsee> maxamillion: because it doesnt exist.
[07:12] <Hobbsee> maxamillion: the resources are there that it can now
[07:13] <maxamillion> Hobbsee: ah, i guess that is an idea i would have to bring up to jani
[07:13] <j1mc> Hobbsee: can we come back to that a little later in the meeting?
[07:13] <maxamillion> j1mc: sorry
[07:13] <Hobbsee> j1mc: of course.  just giving a heads up.  i'm actually heading towards bed.  sorry to hijack.
[07:13] <maxamillion> j1mc: what's the current order of business?
[07:13] <j1mc> np...  :)  thanks, Hobbsee... we'll be in touch about it.
[07:14] <j1mc> maxamillion: we're talking about the website
[07:14] <j1mc> thesheep doesn't have much time to work on it, and cody is leaving soon.
[07:14] <maxamillion> ah
[07:15] <j1mc> should we just consider a .css refresh?
[07:15] <vidd_laptop> is it already decided that we ARE cloning the ubuntu site or is that still in the air?
[07:15] <somerville32> It would be easier to just use the new template.
[07:15] <j1mc> there's a guy in chicago-ubuntu who is pretty good with drupal.
[07:16] <somerville32> j1mc: Aye. TheSheep isn't the only person who has the necessary skills
[07:17] <somerville32> I wonder what the other derivs. are doing.
[07:17] <j1mc> yeah... i don't want to sign anybody up who isn't at the meeting, but i bet we could get the word out amongst our respective circles.
[07:17] <j1mc> someone could help us...
[07:17] <somerville32> Do Kubuntu, Edubuntu, etc. have intentions to use the new template?
[07:17] <maxamillion> i thought he had already done the theme change, just needed to add a new logo icons
[07:17] <j1mc> good question.
[07:17] <Hobbsee> i think kubuntu is going to use the new template.  there's a spec on it
[07:17] <vidd_laptop> if i had this template...i could do the design...i guess
[07:17] <maxamillion> s/icons/icon
[07:18] <Hobbsee> spec will tell of more details
[07:18] <maxamillion> night Hobbsee
[07:18] <somerville32> maxamillion: Since you're the prime guy for the website right now, maybe you could create a specification and then we can all pitch in once you've got the framework done?
[07:19] <somerville32> I think we can all agree that we want the new template
[07:19] <somerville32> It is very professional, neat, clean, and lovely
[07:19] <somerville32> lol
[07:19] <j1mc> yes, the new template looks good. :)
[07:19] <somerville32> The question is implementation and the question of content
[07:19] <vidd_laptop> so then....when will ubuntu use it?
[07:19] <somerville32> Pardon?
[07:19] <maxamillion> somerville32: i thought we already had a spec for it? ... i could have sworn all this was said and done, there were just minor changes needing to be made to the drupal theme that radomir worked on
[07:20] <j1mc> vidd_laptop: ubuntu uses it already.  ubuntu.com
[07:20] <vidd_laptop> if this templete is as great as you make it out to be...then ubuntu does not have it up
[07:20] <j1mc> maxamillion: you probably know better than the rest of us.
[07:21] <maxamillion> i saw a screenshot of the one radomir was working on .. it looked almost finished to me, i thought he was just cleaning up some css code
[07:21] <somerville32> I too saw it
[07:21] <somerville32> It was looking good.
[07:22] <maxamillion> somerville32: then we should get that code from him if he's not able to finish it
[07:22] <somerville32> maxamillion: Do you think you could be responsible for ensuring that the new template is implemented for the release of Gutsy?
[07:22] <somerville32> maxamillion: aye
[07:23] <maxamillion> somerville32: yes, i can commit to that
[07:23] <j1mc> awesome.  :)
[07:23] <somerville32> Awesome indeed.
[07:24] <somerville32> Thanks max
[07:24] <somerville32> Lets talk about the doc-browser
[07:24] <maxamillion> anytime
[07:24] <somerville32> j1mc: Did you and Admiral get to talk to some people in -doc again re: doc browseR?
[07:24] <j1mc> no, not really...
[07:25] <j1mc> i am just not sure what all additional work is required on the spec.
[07:25] <maxamillion> doc-browser, i like the idea, but we would need to get it sponsored by a core-dev in order to get it in main so we can distribute it in the release iso
[07:25] <somerville32> The first step is developing it
[07:25] <somerville32> They can't put it in main unless it is all packaged and in tip-top quality.
[07:25] <maxamillion> somerville32: right
[07:25] <somerville32> Once we get to the that point, we simply need it promoted and added to the seeds.
[07:26] <j1mc> a comment was left on the spec on the wiki stating that much more work was needed in the latter section, but i am not sure what all to add.
[07:26] <somerville32> j1mc: Link?
[07:27] <j1mc> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Specifications/Gutsy/DocumentationBrowser
[07:27] <j1mc> "The following sections need extensive work"
[07:28] <j1mc> not being a developer, I'm not sure what to add.
[07:28] <j1mc> . . . once that is ready, though, i should put it up on launchpad, correct?
[07:28] <somerville32> You can put it on now
[07:29] <somerville32> I can even do it if you'd like
[07:29] <j1mc> it's ok... i'll handle it...
[07:29] <maxamillion> yeah, once its on there i will join it ... maybe even put together a draft of the code sometime next week
[07:29] <j1mc> could either of you lend some insight as to what else would be needed in the spec, though? add a few additional comments?
[07:30] <maxamillion> main issue is a proper search feature, shouldn't be too hard to code though ... but that will be the hardest part
[07:31] <somerville32> We don't need search
[07:32] <maxamillion> no?
[07:32] <somerville32> If we use Topic Based Help, we should be A1
[07:32] <somerville32> Search could be something added later
[07:32] <maxamillion> doesn't yelp have a search feature?
[07:32] <maxamillion> ah, ok
[07:32] <somerville32> maxamillion: ie. If we can get a stable release that can go into gutsy first, then we can focus on extra stuff
[07:32] <j1mc> makes sense.
[07:33] <maxamillion> right
[07:33] <somerville32> j1mc: Did you create the spec on lp yet? :] 
[07:33] <j1mc> no, should i create it right now?  :)
[07:35] <somerville32> maxamillion: The UI needs heavy specing
[07:35] <maxamillion> somerville32: i agree
[07:35] <maxamillion> somerville32: my honest plan is to mimic the yelp ui
[07:36] <somerville32> We should get TheSheep's help on the UI. He is a UI god.
[07:36] <maxamillion> he's just kinda an all around god, but yes ... he has alot of insight on UI
[07:37] <somerville32> Which is better then I
[07:37] <somerville32> I have nonme
[07:37] <somerville32> :] 
[07:38] <maxamillion> i have some ... i took a course last semester on human-computer-interaction and we covered ALOT of UI stuff
[07:40] <somerville32> Awesome.
[07:41] <maxamillion> but anyways, that's a tad offtopic
[07:41] <j1mc> ah, sorry guys... anyone have a link to set up a spec?
[07:41] <maxamillion> we need to draft a UI spec and add it to jim's spec
[07:41] <somerville32> lol
[07:41] <maxamillion> :P
[07:42] <somerville32> j1mc: I'll do it real quick
[07:42] <j1mc> ok... then show me how you did it.
[07:42] <j1mc> sorry, all.
[07:42] <somerville32> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+addspec
[07:43] <j1mc> ok... .want me to do it now?
[07:44] <somerville32> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-documentation-browser
[07:44] <somerville32> Already done
[07:45] <j1mc> thanks...
[07:45] <maxamillion> heh, i'm already assined
[07:45] <maxamillion> :)
[07:46] <maxamillion> assigned*
[07:46] <maxamillion> bleh ... i'm tired
[07:47] <maxamillion> thanks
[07:47] <maxamillion> speaking of .... i should get some of that on my way out of town so i don't fall asleep on the road

[07:47] <maxamillion> ok, we covered the website, and now the spec for the doc viewer .. next order of business?
[07:47] <somerville32> j1mc: How goes actual doc writing?
[07:48] <somerville32> And what was that I heard about us migrating to bzr?
[07:48] <j1mc> it is going fairly well - not huge progress, but we are moving along.
[07:48] <j1mc> migrating to bzr isn't going to happen, but i do have a question about getting our changes up...
[07:48] <j1mc> maxamillion: they are in a subversion repo.
[07:49] <maxamillion> huh
[07:49] <j1mc> since we are changing so much of the documentation for xubuntu, i don't want to submit huuuge patches...
[07:49] <luzi> can we have a look at it?
[07:49] <j1mc> we're basically using current ubuntu docs as a guide...
[07:50] <j1mc> luzi: yeah... how do you want us to handle submitting patches?  just submit them all to the ubuntu-doc mailing list?
[07:50] <j1mc> the thing is... i don't think that we're really submitting "patches" we're basically submitting new content.
[07:50] <j1mc> at least in terms of xubuntu . . .
[07:50] <somerville32> Thats ok.
[07:50] <luzi> that's patches too, just really big ones.
[07:51] <luzi> i think it'd be better to work in the official doc repo
[07:51] <j1mc> ok... we'll submit our first set this week, and then get feedback, i suppose.
[07:51] <j1mc> luzi: i agree...
[07:51] <luzi> not start your own branch, and then find out someone else has worked on the official repo.\
[07:51] <j1mc> right...
[07:51] <somerville32> Once you start getting a few patches in (and show that you check your work), you'll get SVN access quickly.
[07:52] <j1mc> but basically we're using ubuntu docs as a base...
[07:52] <somerville32> As for creating your own branch, it IS possible that you could create a product and sync the SVN branch into a bzr branch
[07:52] <somerville32> Then you could use get a sponsor to upload your diffs (ie. patchs)
[07:53] <somerville32> But I figure you guys will get access soon enough anyhow
[07:53] <j1mc> hmmm... yeah, that sounds like a hassle, though...  :)  i think it'll work out submitting patches up through the mailing list.
[07:53] <j1mc> we'll see how it goes.
[07:53] <j1mc> as i said, freddy and i will start submitting what we've been working on this week.
[07:54] <luzi> sounds good to me.
[07:54] <j1mc> the good news is that we are meeting weekly, and we're learning docbook, and are making progress.  :)
[07:54] <somerville32> Awesome! Kudos! :)
[07:54] <j1mc> the patch i submitted to the mailing list a few days ago was my first patch EVAR by the way.  :)
[07:55] <somerville32> :D
[07:55] <maxamillion> j1mc: congrats ;)
[07:55] <j1mc> hehe
[07:55] <j1mc> next topic?
[07:55] <maxamillion> sure
[07:56] <somerville32> Keep us updated about doc status
[07:56] <somerville32> It lifts morale when one knows others are accomplishing things
[07:56] <j1mc> ok.  i will.
[07:56] <maxamillion> thankies
[07:56] <somerville32> Which motivates them to do something productive too!
[07:56] <j1mc> :)
[07:58] <j1mc> it looks like we're missing our special guest.
[07:58] <maxamillion> :(
[07:58] <somerville32> Disappointing, aye.
[07:58] <somerville32> Whats the other item on the list?
[07:59] <somerville32> More prominent add/remove in menu?
[07:59] <maxamillion> well, i need to get going ... i might be back later
[07:59] <maxamillion> it will be a few hours though, i have a long drive ahead of me
[07:59] <maxamillion> laters all!!
[07:59] <j1mc> ok, maxamillion thanks for your help.
[08:00] <j1mc> somerville32: yeah, the add-remove item was on the list...
[08:01] <j1mc> i think it's ok where it is, though...
[08:01] <somerville32> Who added the item?
[08:01] <j1mc> VincentZekred
[08:02] <somerville32> Ok
[08:03] <somerville32> Well, I suppose we can discuss the items we were going to discuss with Cory
[08:03] <j1mc> sure...
[08:04] <j1mc> would you like to start?
[08:05] <somerville32> I think there is a fundamental issue at heart
[08:06] <somerville32> It feels like, at times, it is the blind leading the blind and we happen to be just going in circles.
[08:07] <j1mc> i do see some of the same issues being brought up again and again...
[08:08] <j1mc> and to me, it seems that items of little importance receive a good deal of attention.
[08:08] <somerville32> There is a recognized lack of direction. A lot of us, such as myself, simply don't have the experience to lead the develop of a distribution by ourselves. We aren't always aware of the resources available or the best way to do things.
[08:08] <somerville32> Aye.
[08:08] <j1mc> yeah...
[08:09] <somerville32> We all have good intentions but I think it would be hard to argue that there is more talk then actual do.
[08:10] <j1mc> i don't really know who does the work for xubuntu other than jani.
[08:10] <somerville32> I think it is just Jani and Lionel now
[08:10] <j1mc> there seems to be a disconnect there for one thing . . .  who is Lionel?
[08:10] <j1mc> it's sad that i don't know that.  :)
[08:11] <lionel> mr_pouit, not me :)
[08:11] <somerville32> Aye
[08:11] <somerville32> lol
[08:11] <mr_pouit> yes ^^
[08:11] <j1mc> :)
[08:11] <mr_pouit> yes, I am Lionel :P
[08:13] <somerville32> j1mc: I agree with you. There is most certainly a disconnect.
[08:13] <mr_pouit> Jani has very little time, that's why he never attends the meeting iirc.
[08:13] <somerville32> Jani is very busy.
[08:13] <j1mc> mr_pouit and jani are doing the real core work for xubuntu it seems... it would just be good to know how to support them...
[08:14] <j1mc> and it seems like we have people at the high level, like jani and mr_pouit , but not many folks in between that and people at the end where there isn't much coding going on.
[08:15] <j1mc> i'm not sure what all else to say on this topic.
[08:16] <mr_pouit> there are many things to do : merging packages from debian (I am taking care of that since the begin of gutsy dev cycle), "degnomify"ing apps (Jani tries to do this), but also bug triaging, translations...
[08:18] <somerville32> Maybe we lose focus too often of what there really is to do?
[08:18] <somerville32> But at the same time, I still feel like there is something missing.
[08:18] <somerville32> A link along the way
[08:19] <somerville32> I guess the question is, why do people not know what to do when they know what they can do?
[08:19] <somerville32> or *could do
[08:22] <j1mc> back...
[08:22] <j1mc> that's a good question, cody...
[08:23] <somerville32> It is a question I can only guess at
[08:23] <j1mc> i think we could tackle it in a few ways...
[08:23] <somerville32> Aye.
[08:23] <mr_pouit> j1mc: I think the people "between" could be bugtriagers
[08:23] <mr_pouit> It doesn't need coding.packaging skills, and it's very useful
[08:24] <j1mc> mr_pouit: agreed.  :)
[08:24] <j1mc> but how do we encourage people to triage?
[08:24] <j1mc> ... through the lists...
[08:24] <mr_pouit> and it doesn't seem that the bugsquad takes care of xubuntu bugs... many stays untriaged :/
[08:24] <gpocentek> hug days \o/
[08:24] <j1mc> ... through xubuntu bugs days...
[08:24] <j1mc> hug days, yeay!
[08:24] <mr_pouit> yes
[08:25] <gpocentek> make people jump in and triage Xubuntu bugs during hug days
[08:25] <j1mc> but also . . .  the mailing lists and the ubuntu planet could be used as means to give these topics some attention.
[08:25] <somerville32> Aye
[08:25] <somerville32> j1mc: I agree.
[08:26] <j1mc> somerville32: what's with you saying "Aye" ... are you a pirate now?  :-P
[08:26] <j1mc> no, i guess that would be Arrrg!
[08:26] <j1mc> sorry
[08:27] <j1mc> mr_pouit: you think that would help - bug traige?  this is a big need for you guys?
[08:27] <somerville32> mr_pouit, gpocentek: What about people on this "higher end" who want to package (can package and do), want to program (can program and do), and want to help _develop_ yet don't have the experience to do so.
[08:27] <somerville32> s/./?
[08:28] <somerville32> A good example is the network manager
[08:30] <gpocentek> j1mc: bug triaging usually leads to have a look at the packages too
[08:30] <mr_pouit> somerville32: for packaging, there is the Ubuntu-motu-mentors ML, and there's the possibility to get mentored by a MOTU
[08:32] <j1mc> one thing that was helpful during the run-up to the release of feisty was jani asked certain items to be tested.
[08:32] <somerville32> mr_pouit: I can already package but I'd like to go one step further and start developing and implementing specifications.
[08:32] <j1mc> as cody mentioned before, knowing what others are working on would help further participation of others.
[08:32] <j1mc> help build momentum...
[08:33] <Toadstool> bug triaging is one of the best way in actually, if you don't stick to the click-on-LP part of the job, it gives you a chance to examine different kind of packages and gives you much more experience than just packaging some random app imho
[08:35] <luzi> i've got to go. see you all!
[08:35] <j1mc> take care, luzi
[08:36] <gpocentek> somerville32: my first steps with coding was fixes to xfce applets
[08:37] <somerville32> Ok :] 
[08:41] <j1mc> so, a few things we can take away from this:  bug triage is appreciated by the developers, and we need more of it.
[08:41] <j1mc> ... we could use some mentoring (?) for people interested in developing more... or advancing their development skills...
[08:41] <gpocentek> yes
[08:42] <j1mc> what else...
[08:42] <gpocentek> you can play with simple packaging tasks
[08:42] <j1mc> providing a bit more prompting on what could be done may be helpful in generating more activity.
[08:42] <gpocentek> packages updates for instance, not necessarily Xubuntu related
[08:43] <gpocentek> if you want to develop stuff in *ubuntu, you'll *have* to be ready to touch packages
[08:43] <gpocentek> this also means being around in #u-motu
[08:44] <j1mc> somerville32: anything to add...  there's more, i know... these are not small issues, really...
[08:44] <gpocentek> for Jani, Lionel and me, everything started with the MOTUs
[08:44] <somerville32> j1mc: I think we covered a lot of good ground today.
[08:45] <j1mc> i think part of it may be that people might not think that they would be ready to be a motu.  or they don't think of it as something they could attain.  ??  or maybe we just don't have enough motu-minded people with us now.
[08:45] <gpocentek> maybe
[08:45] <gpocentek> there's almost nothing in universe related to xubuntu
[08:45] <gpocentek> main only
[08:45] <mr_pouit> 2 or 3 panel-plugins
[08:45] <gpocentek> but becoming a MOTU is possible for *everyone*
[08:46] <somerville32> It generally takes 2 release cycles though
[08:46] <j1mc> mr_pouit: i think that a note to the list every now and then from you and jani, just letting us know what you're working on, would be good.
[08:46] <gpocentek> yes, but it doesn't mean that your work is not applied
[08:46] <somerville32> gpocentek: aye
[08:46] <j1mc> also identifying any areas that need help, testing, review, etc...
[08:47] <somerville32> Increasing xubuntu developer visibility would most certainly be helpful in regards to moral.
[08:47] <j1mc> it doesn't have to be all the time... but ... like i said earlier, it is weird to not even know who the core people are.
[08:47] <j1mc> and you do so much awesome work.  :)
[08:48] <somerville32> I think participation in some of the discussion (either putting out unproductive ones or supporting/steering productive ones) would be a plus.
[08:48] <somerville32> I'd like there to be less of a division
[08:48] <somerville32> And I think it may have been created by the unproductive discussions that occur on -devel sometimes.
[08:49] <j1mc> yes...
[08:51] <mr_pouit> Yes, sometimes the xubuntu-devel ml tends to become xubuntu-users :] 
[08:51] <mr_pouit> j1mc: ok for the note, I'll tru to do that
[08:51] <mr_pouit> *try
[08:51] <somerville32> splendid
[08:51] <j1mc> :)
[08:53] <somerville32> mr_pouit: So, what are your feelings on the xubuntu-documentation-browser spec?
[08:56] <fijam> hello
[08:56] <somerville32> Hello
[08:56] <fijam> it's been a while
[08:57] <somerville32> I'm sure it has
[08:57] <j1mc> i've got to go, everyone.  thanks for time out of your days today... i think it was a helpful discussion.
[08:57] <mr_pouit> This could be useful, but it would be worth knowing if people are really bored by Firefox slowness
[08:58] <somerville32> mr_pouit: I know I am.
[08:58] <vidd_laptop> board??
[08:58] <somerville32> j1mc: ttyl
[08:58] <vidd_laptop> frustrated...but never bored =] 
[08:58] <j1mc> bye!
[08:59] <fijam> somerville32: a lot of things popped up and I was unable to contribute to the documentation development
[08:59] <vidd_laptop> mr_pouit, are there plans to replace/trim FF in the near future?
[08:59] <somerville32> fijiam: Tis is ok :)
[09:00] <mr_pouit> We should see this with Jani, but I don't think so
[09:00] <fijam> but now, once the exams are over I should have enough time to help
[09:00] <mr_pouit> (at least not for gutsy)
[09:00] <somerville32> fijam: J1mc and Admiral_Chigaco are really leading the way. They'd be super happy to get your assistance, I know they would.
[09:01] <vidd_laptop> btw somerville32: i dont really have the time or know-how to work with getting the xfburn issue resolved....
[09:01] <vidd_laptop> =\
[09:02] <mr_pouit> vidd_laptop: you can speak with pygi from the ubuntu burning team
[09:02] <fijam> somerville32:  I'll let them know that I am 'available'
[09:02] <somerville32> awesome :)
[09:03] <vidd_laptop> mr_pouit, and how would i do that...is it a mailing list....forum...???
[09:03] <somerville32> a person
[09:04] <mr_pouit> He should be on #ubuntu-burning, but you can also mail him (https://launchpad.net/~mario-danic)
[09:04] <vidd_laptop> somerville32, i KNOW its a person...but do i contact them via telephone, e-mail, irc?
[09:04] <somerville32> Ah. See above ^^
[09:05] <vidd_laptop> bookmarked
[09:06] <somerville32> I'd be interested in taking a look at xfburn too
[09:06] <vidd_laptop> its an awesome app...clean looking....
[09:07] <vidd_laptop> and LITE....
[09:07] <vidd_laptop> does everything but burn ISO's
[09:07] <somerville32> And hopefully we'll fix that :] 
[09:07] <vidd_laptop> unfortunantly....burning ISO's is all i use a burner for
[09:08] <vidd_laptop> somerville32, have you ever burned an ISO from command line? and did it work correctly?
[09:09] <somerville32> No, I've never done that.
[09:10] <vidd_laptop> cuzz if burning from command line works correctly...then it SHOULD simply be a matter of coding the UI button for "burn ISO" to call the proper CLI command
[09:11] <vidd_laptop> gpocentek, what is the proper commands?
[09:11] <gpocentek> that's what xfburn does
[09:11] <gpocentek> cdrecord
[09:11] <gpocentek> well, now it's wodim
[09:11] <vidd_laptop> gpocentek, but why does it not do it correctly then?
[09:11] <mr_pouit> cdrecord has many issues
[09:12] <gpocentek> vidd_laptop: no idea
[09:12] <vidd_laptop> gnomebaker is a front end for cdrecord....and it does not have this issue....
[09:12] <vidd_laptop> or does gnomebaker use something else for ISO images?
[09:13] <mr_pouit> I think all cd recording apps still use cdrecord
[09:13] <mr_pouit> (except brasero in gutsy that switched to libburnia)
[09:13] <fijam> brasero may use libburn afaik
[09:13] <fijam> yeah
[09:14] <vidd_laptop> mr_pouit, what are the requirements for brasero?
[09:14] <mr_pouit> libgnome and gstreamer
[09:16] <vidd_laptop> gsteamer is alot of overhead....and will take out gxine....our default media player
[09:16] <mr_pouit> yes
[09:17] <Burgundavia> gstreamer also gets you the autocodec stuff, however
[09:17] <vidd_laptop> Burgundavia, i would rather install libxine-extracodecs
[09:17] <vidd_laptop> get all the goodies without all the bloat
[09:17] <Burgundavia> do we have definitive proof that gstreamer apps are more "bloated'
[09:18] <vidd_laptop> just check the memory footprint
[09:18] <vidd_laptop> and then we would also have to replace our media player
[09:19] <vidd_laptop> gxine cant run on gstreamer
[09:19] <Burgundavia> right
[09:19] <mr_pouit> and find a gstreamer based player without gnome deps
[09:19] <Burgundavia> heh
[09:19] <Burgundavia> ok, just playing devils advocate
[09:19] <vidd_laptop> and i dont recall there being any app anywhere near as lite-weight as gxine that runs gstreamer
[09:20] <vidd_laptop> libburnia.....
[09:22] <vidd_laptop> *burner
[09:22] <somerville32> Splendid
[09:23] <mr_pouit> in gtk2 this is going to be hard... afaik, only brasero ans xfburn are still maintained
[09:23] <mr_pouit> *and
[09:24] <somerville32> Why is brasero out of the game?
[09:24] <vidd_laptop> it needs gsteamer
[09:25] <vidd_laptop> interesting....pygi runs the mailing list for the libburn-cutters
[09:26] <vidd_laptop> is libburnia in the repo's?
[09:26] <mr_pouit> yes
[09:26] <mr_pouit> libburn & libisofs
[09:26] <somerville32> Welp, I think this here would be perfect discussion for #xubuntu-devel
[09:27] <somerville32> Now that Burgundavia is here, I'd really like to hear from him :)
[09:27] <Burgundavia> right
[09:28] <Burgundavia> nobody else objects?
[09:28] <vidd_laptop> none here
[09:29] <Burgundavia> ok
[09:29] <Burgundavia> well, somerville32 asked me to come and chat with you guys about community building
[09:29] <somerville32> \o/
[09:29] <Burgundavia> the key part of community building is basically that you need to provide things for people to do
[09:29] <Burgundavia> the "if you build it, they will come" or "nothing breeds success like success"
[09:30] <Burgundavia> what you need to ask is "if I were a new contributor, how do I get involved?
[09:30] <Burgundavia> "
[09:30] <Burgundavia> to answer that, you need a bunch of small tasks to get people going
[09:31] <Burgundavia> for instance, the bug team has got their "bitesize tasks" or KDE's Junior Jobs
[09:32] <Burgundavia> in that vein, here are some concrete ideas (I have no idea if you doing any of these or not)
[09:32] <Burgundavia> * tag xubuntu specific bugs as bitesized and then publish that list
[09:32] <Burgundavia> * get people blogging on Planet Ubuntu about the latest Xubuntu news (new programs, new artwork, etc)
[09:33] <Burgundavia> * define a few high levels goals for the next release
[09:33] <Burgundavia> some people are drawn in by big ideas, others by small stuff
[09:34] <Burgundavia> does any of this make sense?
[09:34] <vidd_laptop> Burgundavia, now that you said it...its super obvious!
[09:34] <vidd_laptop> =] 
[09:34] <Burgundavia> now, all of this takes work, time that is not going to actual development
[09:35] <Burgundavia> that might feel like a waste (I just want to fix this bug, not tell somebody else how to do it) but it well worth the effort to teach people
[09:35] <vidd_laptop> Burgundavia, so true....
[09:36] <Burgundavia> so, I kind of mixed in marketing xubuntu in, my 2nd point
[09:36] <Burgundavia> an important thing to remember, is that whenever you promote or talk about Xubuntu, you need to talk about how people can help
[09:37] <Burgundavia> for instance, when Jono is good at this
[09:37] <Burgundavia> look at his blog posts about Jokosher for examples
[09:37] <Burgundavia> or my blog about OpenStreetMap
[09:38] <Burgundavia> for instance, you were talking about burners earlier
[09:38] <Burgundavia> one of you could write a blog about how you are searching for a burner and what the pitfalls you have run into
[09:39] <Burgundavia> at the end of the blog post, ask for peoples help in solving this problem
[09:40] <Burgundavia> that make sense?
[09:40] <fijam> certainly
[09:40] <Burgundavia> another thing to realize is that you are going to loose people and gain people
[09:40] <vidd_laptop> it makes sense....
[09:41] <Burgundavia> being a volunteer project, the number of people you have is going to ebb and wain. The key part is that you attracting new people
[09:41] <Burgundavia> from a development POV, unloading as much work on other people is also a good idea
[09:41] <Burgundavia> thus working with upstream GNOME to make their apps run on stock GTK is thus a good idea
[09:42] <mr_pouit> Jani has some problems to convince upstream to get his patches
[09:42] <Burgundavia> some of that might require you do the hard work of integrating the patches and again, it is all about personal relationships
[09:43] <Burgundavia> brb
[09:44] <Burgundavia> back
[09:44] <Burgundavia> any other questions?
[09:45] <somerville32> Aye
[09:46] <somerville32> I'd like to know how to reduce the "running around with out heads chopped off" symptom that is a result of guidance and leadership.
[09:46] <somerville32> err.. lack of
[09:46] <Burgundavia> ah, ok
[09:47] <Burgundavia> well, the best way to solve that problem is to do something :)
[09:47] <Burgundavia> have a meeting wherein you define a few high level goals for the next release and then agree on them
[09:47] <Burgundavia> voila! instant leadership, because you all know what you are trying to do
[09:48] <Burgundavia> a goal might be: find and implement a burning app
[09:48] <Burgundavia> or: improve basic documentation to make certain all major apps are documented
[09:48] <vidd_laptop> somerville32, maybe we should put a "goal checklist" on the xubuntu site....
[09:49] <Burgundavia> yes, that would be awesome
[09:49] <Burgundavia> how many of you have blogs and are on planet ubuntu?
[09:49] <vidd_laptop> complete with Task Leader column (with e-mail address)
[09:49] <vidd_laptop> not i
[09:49] <somerville32> I don't but I guess I should
[09:49] <Burgundavia> get one and get it on planet ubuntu and start blogging
[09:49] <fijam> btw is the xubuntu.wordpress.com an (at-least-partially)official blog? It seems to be somewhat abandoned.
[09:50] <somerville32> no, it is not
[09:50] <Burgundavia> talk about the latest development news, new deployments, etcx.
[09:51] <vidd_laptop> somerville32, i will draw up a template for a "goal checklist" page....
[09:51] <fijam> ah, ok. It is still a top result on google for 'xubuntu blog' query. Maybe something should be done in order to change it. The official xubuntu site is rather 'static' IMO.
[09:51] <Burgundavia> ah, yep
[09:51] <somerville32> I understand that certain individuals have been able to be accelerated in terms of acceptance to MOTU. Would that be available to xubuntu individuals who have demonstrated proficiencies?
[09:51] <Burgundavia> a static website means nobody will visit it
[09:51] <Burgundavia> for MOTU, you need to talk to the tech board
[09:52] <Burgundavia> for ubuntu membership, I suggest you learn from the Brazillian team
[09:53] <Burgundavia> when one of their own comes up, they all comment on that persons user page
[09:53] <Burgundavia> it makes it so much easier to figure out whether or not to approve peope
[09:54] <somerville32> I think getting more "xubuntu" ubuntu members would be an A1 idea
[09:54] <vidd_laptop> ubuntu membership?
[09:55] <Burgundavia> for that, you need a council
[09:55] <vidd_laptop> what is that?
[09:55] <Burgundavia> much like the Kubuntu one
[09:55] <DarkSun88> Hi all
[09:56] <somerville32> Hiya
[09:56] <fijam> hello
[09:56] <somerville32> Burgundavia: I don't think we really need a council at this time though, eh?
[09:56] <somerville32> We only have a dozen or so people involved directly
[09:56] <somerville32> (if that)
[09:56] <Burgundavia> I would have to seriously look at how many people you have
[09:56] <Burgundavia> you need a certain critical mass
[09:56] <somerville32> We don't have that :/
[09:56] <Burgundavia> make certain you have all your core contributors as members first
[09:57] <mr_pouit> there are ~100 members in the ~xubuntu-users team
[10:01] <vidd_laptop> mr_pouit, is that the mailing list?
[10:01] <somerville32> No
[10:01] <mr_pouit> No, this is a Launchpad team: https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-users/
[10:01] <vidd_laptop> hrm... i never heard of it b4....
[10:04] <Burgundavia> anyway, you should probably wrap this meeting up
[10:04] <Burgundavia> if you want to chat with me privately or at another meeting, I can do that
[10:05] <somerville32> Alrighty. Thanks a bunch :)
[10:08] <fijam> If i might suggest something at this point...
[10:09] <fijam> IMO it should be taken under serious consideration how to make the xubuntu website more attractive to the visitors
[10:10] <somerville32> We're implementing a new theme
[10:10] <fijam> when the official website doesn't draw attention and updates every major release, there is a feeling that 'everything is happening behind the scenes'
[10:10] <fijam> which may be just an antoher factor deterring people from joining the development
[10:11] <fijam> s/antoher/another
[10:11] <Burgundavia> yep
[10:11] <fijam> the form is undoubtly important, but the content is what is desperately needed ;)
[10:15] <fijam> maybe this is a topic for another meeting
[10:15] <Burgundavia> yes :)
[10:16] <Burgundavia> given you are at 3hours and counting
[10:16] <somerville32> :] 
[10:19] <fijam> right, thanks for the meeting, and see you later
[10:19] <Burgundavia> cya
[10:44] <effraie> @schedule Paris
[10:44] <ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Paris: 19 Jun 21:00: Technical Board | 20 Jun 22:00: Edubuntu | 21 Jun 20:00: Mozilla Team | 21 Jun 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 23 Jun 22:00: Ubuntu US LoCo Team | 26 Jun 17:00: Kernel Team