[12:11] <crimsun> Kmos: \sh normally coordinates those updates.  Please check with him.
[12:12] <Kmos> he's not here
[12:12] <Kmos> the update is fine, you just need to upload it
[12:13] <crimsun> Kmos: I think you're missing that he's the last person to have updated it, so you should at least ping him about it
[12:14] <crimsun> that doesn't mean block on his answer; it means at least let him know if you haven't already that you're updating it
[12:16] <Kmos> crimsun: i've the last person who updated it
[12:16] <Kmos> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ddclient
[12:16] <Kmos> Marco Rodrigues
[12:16] <Kmos> we're talking about ddclient right ?
[12:17] <crimsun> no, I'm referring to your query WRT wine.
[12:17] <Kmos> ahh.. ok =)
[12:17] <Kmos> crimsun: sorry
[12:21] <Lamego> Burgundavia, on this case, to keep not working which is not working
[12:21] <Burgundavia> Lamego: again, figure out exactly what is not working and update that
[12:21] <Lamego> Burgundavia, and sorry to disagree there are current verions which are stable while the repositories versions are crap, this for particular packages
[12:22] <Burgundavia> Lamego: file some bugs, get a list of them ready and then present your case
[12:22] <Burgundavia> arguing on this channel is not going to change anybodies mind, nor do we have the power to say yes/no
[12:23] <Lamego> we are just chatting, which is healthy :)
[12:24] <Burgundavia> yes
[12:24] <Burgundavia> the SRU policy exists for a reason
[12:26] <crimsun> Kmos: in the future, because the source package exists in Ubuntu already, please attach the debdiff to a bug report hosted on Launchpad
[12:26] <Lamego> SRU makes all sense for OS/core components, not for applications in general
[12:27] <Lamego> in my opinion
[12:27] <Kmos> crimsun: I don't like debdiff.. :) I can do it manually ?
[12:28] <crimsun> Kmos: debdiffs are part of our workflow.  What do you find annoying about them?
[12:29] <Kmos> they take everything on debian and make it for ubuntu without changes
[12:30] <Kmos> it takes more time
[12:30] <crimsun> sorry, we may have met a language barrier.  Would you rephrase that?
[12:30] <Amaranth> crimsun: he thinks you mean sync from debian
[12:30] <Kmos> Amaranth: exactly
[12:30] <Amaranth> Kmos: debdiff is a tool to create a diff between two versions of a package
[12:30] <Amaranth> Kmos: to quickly show exactly what you've changed
[12:31] <crimsun> in this case, you create a debdiff of your 0ubuntu2 against your previous 0ubuntu1
[12:31] <Kmos> so, I can create an package and do debdiff to it without upload to revu
[12:31] <crimsun> yes
[12:31] <Kmos> i understand now
[12:31] <Kmos> crimsun & Amaranth: thanks
[12:31] <crimsun> np
[12:31] <Kmos> the sync is the part I don't like
[12:31] <Kmos> =)
[12:32] <Kmos> debdiff packagename-version-old.dsc packagename-version.new.dsc > debdiffname.debdiff
[12:32] <Kmos> and just need to do this
[12:33] <crimsun> yes
[12:34] <Kmos> thanks
[12:38] <persia> If anyone has a couple minutes, would you mind looking at http://pastebin.ca/570888 as a candidate postinst for apt-file?  I'm worried I might not be trapping properly to avoid set -e breaking configure when the network test fails.
[12:43] <nixternal> persia: that command crashes my terminal :)
[12:44] <persia> nixternal: crashes, or closes?  The `exit 0` would normally close a terminal.
[12:44] <nixternal> ahh, ya you are right
[12:45] <nixternal> cut: the delimiter must be a single character
[12:45] <nixternal> Try `cut --help' for more information.
[12:45] <nixternal> that is what I get when I copy paste, it hasn't closed my other terminal just yet though
[12:46] <nixternal> ahh, there it went
[12:47] <persia> nixternal: Now I'm confused.  The command works for me, but I've been testing in a script.  Perhaps it's a quoting difference (-d backslash space space -f)?
[12:48] <nixternal> hrmm, it could be
[12:48] <nixternal> hrmm I wonder if the \ gets converted to a breakline? how does that work exactly?
[12:48] <nixternal> because if you were to press enter after the -d\ it will breakline to >
[12:49] <man-di> does somebody here knows what target is called directly before all the install/PACKAGENAME by CDBS?
[12:50] <nixternal> the first line is doing it with the ^deb\ as well
[12:50] <persia> man-di: You probably want to read the makefiles, but I usually use build/foo:: to do something right before install
[12:52] <man-di> persia: I do read the makefiles...
[12:53] <man-di> persia: my problem is that a package puts all build files into some/dir/$(ARCH) and has no "make install"
[12:53] <man-di> persia: what I wanna do is cp some/dir/$(ARCH) to debian/tmp and then put the files to the different binary pacakges from there
[12:55] <persia> man-di: Ah.  And package.install doesn't accept $(ARCH).  Why not use build/packagename::?  Also, tracing with "#!/usr/bin/make -d -f" at the top of debian/rules might help.
[12:57] <persia> man-di: Note that overloads in debian/rules are processed *after* all the internal CDBS rules for the given target.
[12:59] <man-di> persia: build/packagename:: sounds somehow wrong, I need to build at least 8 binary packages from this source package
[12:59] <persia> nixternal: Thanks, but I've just realised I can test by putting a bad hostname in my sources.list, and running `sudo ./apt-file.postinst configure && echo clean`, to make sure it works.
[12:59] <man-di> persia: but it should do the trick
[01:00] <persia> man-di: Do all the packages need to be built prior to the copy?  Also, that's the recommendation from the CDBS documenation, but it may not be ideal.
[01:00] <DarkSun88> G'night
[01:01] <man-di> persia: yes, all need to be built
[01:03] <persia> man-di: In that case, you might get away with overloading common-install-prehook-arch or common-install-prehook-indep, but I'm not sure that works perfectly.
[01:04] <man-di> hmmm
[01:04] <geser> crimsun: I've seen you uploaded ddclient (Kmos pm me about a review). Did you upload revu id 5587 or 5588?
[01:05] <man-di> you are right, its at least the best possible option
[01:05] <crimsun> geser: former.
[01:05] <geser> 5587 dropped also debian/patches/checked_ssl_load.diff
[01:06] <crimsun> ok, then just reupload
[01:08] <Kmos> crimsun & geser: thanks
[01:35] <altaaa> hello
[01:38] <altaaa> anyone active here?
[01:39] <minghua> altaaa: if you have questions, just ask
[01:39] <bashelier> hey altaaa 
[01:39] <altaaa> ah, ok...
[01:39] <altaaa> mesa 6.5.3, will it be in feisty?
[01:39] <crimsun> altaaa: no.
[01:40] <crimsun> do you have a compelling reason to request a backport for it?
[01:40] <altaaa> no not really, just want blur effects :)
[01:40] <altaaa> i tried compiling it, but i'm no linux guru so I couldn't get it to work
[01:42] <pochu> Night folks
[02:55] <Hobbsee> hey all!
[03:57] <SlimG> Why is it necessary to define the destination distro (dapper|edgy|feisty|gutsy etc.) in .deb packages? Shouldn't the dependencies and architecture of a .deb package be the ones that decides what apt supporting system the package can be applied to?
[03:59] <AndyP> SlimG: probably because once a release is released, it needs to stay in the same stable state (give or take a few security updates and SRUs etc)
[04:02] <AndyP> i didn't explain that very well, really, maybe somebody else could
[04:04] <minghua> SlimG: one of the many reasons is that you can have both dapper and feisty repos, for example, in your /etc/apt/sources.list.
[04:04] <minghua> SlimG: and you can tell APT which package(s) you want to install
[04:09] <SlimG> minghua: but that's pretty much because all the packages chosen for dapper (to stick to an example) resides inside the folder http://packages.ubuntu.com/dapper/   , I don't think every package exclusively needs to be defined with "dapper" for sources.list and apt to have the neat function of beeing able to choose dapper packages from any distro?
[04:12] <minghua> SlimG: Which "dapper" definition of the individual packages are you talking about here?  Because there are many.
[04:12] <minghua> s/Because there/There/
[04:15] <AndyP> SlimG: technically there's nothing stopping you from installing a .deb made for feisty on a gutsy machine or a .deb made for debian sid on an ubuntu box... apart from the breakages that might happen from using a .deb outside its tried and tested environment, that is
[04:16] <SlimG> Pretty much any instance in the package that mention the distro the package was intended for. ex.: when the packages are frozen a give time before launch, what more is there to it than picking the most up-to-date packages that's made to that day, and throw them into ex.: http://packages.ubuntu.com/dapper/
[04:17] <minghua> SlimG: how do you define "most up-to-date"?  the highest version number?
[04:17] <SlimG> yes
[04:18] <minghua> then how do you do security updates for old, released distributions?
[04:18] <minghua> e.g., how to do dapper-security updates now?
[04:18] <AndyP> SlimG: that's sort of how the debian unstable archive is put together... and as the name implies, it's unstable :)
[04:18] <SlimG> minghua: put them into http://packages.ubuntu.com/old_released_distro/
[04:20] <minghua> SlimG: packages.ubuntu.com?  that's just a webpage describing the packages in different distributions.
[04:20] <minghua> there are no real packages on packages.ubuntu.com
[04:20] <SlimG> Was about to mention it, I know the URL I'm using is totaly wrong, I'll see if I can find the right one to avoid misunderstanding
[04:21] <minghua> AndyP: not really... the "distribution" field is actually more useful for Debian than Ubuntu, IMHO
[04:24] <AndyP> minghua: i wasn't really commenting on its usefulness, just how it's used in ubuntu... my last comment was about how the debian unstable archive is made up of the latest packages (ok, if you forget about experimental :) )
[04:25] <minghua> AndyP: I honestly don't see how unstable is different with respect to gutsy on this point, but I may be missing something.
[04:26] <AndyP> minghua: i'm a little confused, i think our trains of thought might be decoupled in this conversation :)
[04:28] <minghua> AndyP: You are saying unstable is basically "looking at all the uploads, keep the one with the highest version number, discard old ones, and make that a distribution", aren't you?
[04:30] <SlimG> minghua: As I've understood so far, there's a separate text list that contains info and locations of the the newest packages in dapper, so there wouldn't be any difference afaik if the packages wouldn't contain a intended destination release like "dapper". Am I right?
[04:30] <minghua> SlimG: I am not exactly sure how dak/soyuz works, but yes, I believe you are right.
[04:30] <AndyP> minghua: sort of... i wouldn't really call it a distribution though, that sort of implies that it's the end product but unstable is one of the first stages that packages need to graduate from in order to head towards the next stable distribution
[04:31] <zakame> hi all
[04:31] <zakame> happy father's day for all father MOTUs :)
[04:31] <AndyP> hi zakame 
[04:32] <minghua> AndyP: By distribution I mean the "stable/testing/unstable" and 'feisty/gutsy" sense, not necessarily a release.  But yes, I know the terms are a bit confusing.
[04:32] <zakame> yo AndyP 
[04:32] <minghua> AndyP: My point is, then, gutsy right now (in general, the ubuntu development distribution/branch before release) is no different than unstable.
[04:33] <minghua> AndyP: just that Debian has a second step, "entering testing", while ubuntu doesn't.
[04:35] <AndyP> minghua: yes, it's not much different apart from the different kernel, gnome etc. and the ubuntu specific patches that have gone in so far... once the freezes start happening it'll become more "tight" (using musician jargon)
[04:37] <minghua> AndyP: Yes, I agree.  After freeze Debian and Ubuntu have rather different package approval schemes.
[04:37] <SlimG> It would be nice if Ubuntu could convert to the same system so that packages entering stable would be upgraded on all stable computers, instead of Ubuntu's way: wait 6 months for the next package version upgrade
[04:38] <StevenK> SlimG: That statement makes no sense.
[04:39] <minghua> SlimG: the same system as what?
[04:41] <SlimG> If I've understood Debians system correctly, that packages gradually change "status" (unstable|testing|stable), not just by every whole release (debian 3.1 etc.)
[04:42] <StevenK> SlimG: They don't change in stable. Ever.
[04:42] <SlimG> StevenK: I'm sorry, I've got much to learn, and much of my knowlege is complete bogus :P
[04:43] <StevenK> Debian can do stable updates for security and critical bugs, just like Ubuntu can.
[04:44] <SlimG> So what happen's when "testing" apps is changed to "stable" ? won't the existing stable app by the same name be upgraded?
[04:45] <Fujitsu> testing turns into stable all at once, every couple of years.
[04:45] <minghua> SlimG: no, "testing" changes to "stable" when it's released, and after that the updating is completely different from updating testing/unstable
[04:46] <SlimG> Fujitsu & minghua: oh, thanks for clearing that up while I was making a fool out of myself :)
[04:48] <SlimG> Is the stable branch comparable to (these days) Feisty? and Testing/unstable comparable to Gutsy?
[04:50] <DarkMageZ> SlimG, feisty/testing. gutsy/experimental
[04:50] <SlimG> Edgy/stable ?
[04:51] <DarkMageZ> edgy/nuclear... ubuntu releases aren't normally based off the stable branch.
[04:51] <StevenK> You can't draw lines like that between Debian and Ubuntu
[04:52] <DarkMageZ> not properly anyways. you can try.
[04:53] <Fujitsu> gutsy == unstable, feisty == stable, edgy == oldstable. That's as close as you're going to get.
[04:53] <SlimG> StevenK: Well, I'll store them as _very_ vague lines
[04:55] <zakame> lol, only holds for references
[04:55] <SlimG> But still, the day Debian testing branch moves down to stable, all stable installs will suddenly get several hundred new updates?
[04:56] <zakame> gutsy.Equal(unstable) returns false
[04:56] <SlimG> And ubuntu users has to change sources.list or use a tool to upgrade?
[04:57] <zakame> SlimG: not really, the ubuntu archive iirc doesn't have dist target `stable', everything goes by the codenames
[04:57] <zakame> only Debian has the moving targets
[04:58] <SlimG> zakame: I believe that's what I wrote..?
[05:00] <minghua> SlimG: Debian users still needs to run "apt-get upgrade" to get the new updates, and most of time it's much much more complicated than that
[05:01] <zakame> apt-get update, even
[05:02] <SlimG> minghua: I guess it doesn't take that much amount of work to install the same package update manager thingy Ubuntu/Kubuntu use
[05:02] <SlimG> But still I don't see the reason for defining the target ubuntu release (dapper|edgy|feisty etc.) in .deb packages, but I'll wonder more about the use of that in my offline-sleep
[05:02] <zakame> I don't think many productions servers leave automatic updates on everytime
[05:02] <SlimG> thanks alot for your tutoring guys! ;)
[05:03] <SlimG> Goodnight
[05:03] <minghua> zakame: I believe both apt-get update and upgrade are needed :-)
[05:04] <zakame> minghua: yes, in that order :)
[07:24] <ScottK> StevenK: I did some more looking at python-scipy and even with the work Debian did, it looks to me like it's still seriously broken with the current python-numpy.
[07:24] <ScottK> Oops .. I meant Fujitsu ^^^
[07:24] <ScottK> Sorry about that StevenK
[07:27] <StevenK> Heh
[07:27] <StevenK> I a member of Pythoneers, so I'd hear about it anyway
[07:27] <StevenK> s/^I/I'm/
[07:28] <ScottK> I think it's going to come down to jump python-scipy to an svn release or revert python-numpy to 1..0.1 with some kind of 1.0.3+really1.0.1 magic
[07:39] <StevenK> ScottK: You can't cherry pick some SVN patches?
[07:39] <ScottK> StevenK: I'm not sure yet.  
[07:39] <ScottK> StevenK: I broke it, so I feel obligated to fix it, but it's gonna be a PITA no matter how I go with it.
[07:40] <StevenK> Ahh yes, bug fixing by guilt.
[08:35] <Hobbsee> :)
[08:35] <Hobbsee> no physics!
[08:35] <Hobbsee> no evil physics!
[08:36] <AndyP> whups :)
[08:36] <Jucato> she prefers electronics :)
[08:39] <Hobbsee> ewww, no!
[08:41] <coNP> Good morning everyone.
[08:42] <Jucato> Hobbsee: what are you replacing it with?
[08:42] <Hobbsee> Jucato: computing, mostly
[08:43] <Jucato> woot! :D
[08:43] <Hobbsee> maths stuff on encryption and the like
[08:43] <Fujitsu> Crypto :D
[08:43] <Hobbsee> it depends - come to think of it, i guess i can drop a phys subject if i want.
[08:44] <coNP> MOTUs please review initial version of the window manager Openbox (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5566) and its configurator Obconf (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5569).
[08:44] <Fujitsu> Isn't Openbox already packaged?
[08:45] <coNP> Fujitsu: it is.
[08:45] <coNP> It is an update. I was told here earlie I can wait for Debian to package it and / or create a package for REVU.
[08:46] <Fujitsu> Ah, so it's not an initial version.
[08:46] <coNP> In fact it is an update without any comments and reviews. How would I call that?
[08:47] <Fujitsu> New upstream version, probably.
[08:47] <coNP> New upstream version.
[08:48] <AndyP> shouldn't the revision be -0ubuntu1 for a new upstream release?
[08:49] <coNP> it is version 3.4.2
[08:49] <coNP> Should it be openbox-3.4.2-0ubuntu1?
[08:50] <Hobbsee> sounds about right
[08:51] <coNP> So you want me to repackage it with right version numbers?
[09:06] <Hobbsee> coNP: yes
[09:07] <coNP> Hobbsee: okay, thanks for being explicit :)
[09:12] <Hobbsee> man-di: brave man.
[09:16] <man-di> Hobbsee: thx
[09:29] <Hobbsee> coNP: have you thought about getting that into debian?
[09:30] <coNP> Hobbsee: I have thought although I don't know how could I do that
[09:30] <Hobbsee> coNP: tollef fog heen is mithrandir on irc, and who is a ubuntu developer.
[09:30] <Hobbsee> so could probably take the ubuntu changse, and put them back into debian
[09:31] <Hobbsee> coNP: ask him at the end of next week when he gets back, anyway
[09:31] <coNP> that would be great
[09:32] <coNP> Hobbsee: okay.
[09:36] <StevenK> Yay! grep-dctrl for teh win
[09:36] <Hobbsee> StevenK: i couldnt figure how to actually *use* that though
[09:37] <StevenK> grep-dctrl -FBuild-Depends -sPackage 'libatlas-cpp-0.6-dev' /var/lib/apt/lists/archive.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_gutsy_universe_source_Sources
[09:37] <StevenK> -F means 'limit matching to these fields', -s means 'only display these fields'
[09:37] <Hobbsee> oh no.
[09:38] <Hobbsee> sarah@LongPointyStick:~$ grep-dctrl -FBuild-Depends -sPackage 'yada' /var/lib/apt/lists/archive.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_gutsy_universe_source_Sources | wc -l
[09:38] <Hobbsee> 32
[09:38] <StevenK> Heh
[09:38] <Hobbsee> 3 in main
[09:39] <man-di> cdbs patch created: done
[09:39] <man-di> cdbs bug filed and patch attached: done
[09:39] <Hobbsee> :)
[09:39] <Hobbsee> man-di: bug #?
[09:39] <man-di> bug #120793
[09:39] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 120793 in cdbs "dont fail when building java source packages" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/120793
[09:41] <Hobbsee> looks...sane.
[09:42] <StevenK> man-di: Please don't paste patches inline. It makes getting them out of Launchpad a little harder.
[09:44] <man-di> StevenK: ok, I thought its okay for this little fix. It was a bit easier for me this way, as I develop this remotely and a simple scp back is not possible from there
[09:47] <coNP> Hobbsee: you mean that first I should ask Mithrandir if this package can be put back to Debian? And then you (or others) are going to review my package? Not that I want to force you to check it now, just asking...
[09:50] <man-di> StevenK: are you working on atlas-cpp?
[09:51] <StevenK> Yup.
[09:52] <StevenK> atlas-cpp can be synced, but I want to make sure the three packages that Build-Depend on it also work before I request it.
[09:52] <man-di> StevenK: I'm debian maintainer of it
[09:52] <Hobbsee> coNP: means that you may as well prepare the package for debian so then we can sync it to ubuntu from there
[09:52] <StevenK> man-di: Ah, right.
[09:52] <man-di> StevenK: you might have a problem with current cyphesis-cpp and/or eris
[09:52] <StevenK> man-di: Current eris looks fine.
[09:53] <man-di> StevenK: I will upload new versions of both to debian today
[09:53] <coNP> Hobbsee: Oh, I see. Then I'll contact Mithrandir when he's back. 
[09:53] <Hobbsee> :)
[09:54] <StevenK> man-di: With the cyphesis-cpp upload incorporate the Ubuntu changes?
[09:56] <man-di> StevenK: thats done upstream now
[09:57] <man-di> so no need to patch it for Python 2.5 anymore
[09:59] <StevenK> man-di: What about sear?
[10:00] <man-di> probably tomorrow
[10:02] <StevenK> man-di: Okay, I can file a sync request for atlas-cpp now, eris will get auto-synced, cyphesis-cpp can be filed when it hits MoM and I check it, and I still need to look at sear.
[10:02] <man-di> StevenK: okay
[10:02] <StevenK> man-di: Thanks for helping clear it up. :-)
[10:03] <man-di> StevenK: np
[10:04] <StevenK> cyphesis-cpp looks to be okay, so far, though.
[10:08] <lionel> StevenK: atlas-cpp sync request has been rejected, see #118374
[10:09] <StevenK> lionel: That's a wine bug
[10:10] <lionel> right
[10:10] <lionel> Bug #118734
[10:10] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 118734 in atlas-cpp "Please sync atlas-cpp (universe) from Debian Unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Rejected]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/118734
[10:11] <StevenK> Right. I'll prepare a merge when I get home.
[11:29] <tobiasschulz> all MOTUs: can someone please check jeliza ( http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5590 ) ?
[11:43] <MadMan2k> hi, is there a way to automatically speed up package building on SMP amchines?
[11:43] <MadMan2k> i.e. adding "DEB_MAKE_INVOKE += --jobs=$N" to the rules file?
[11:45] <man-di> MadMan2k: when you put this into a debian/rules file this means you slow it down for non-smp maschines
[11:47] <Q-FUNK> man-di: can you think of a way to make this work transparently, short of having an individual pbuilder pass that as an environment variable?
[11:47] <man-di> Q-FUNK: not in a portable way, this was discussed on debian-devel ML a lot in the past and there were always reasons against it
[11:51] <Q-FUNK> ok
[11:51] <man-di> in Debian a debian/rules file setting a specific -j option always is considered a bug
[11:52] <MadMan2k> man-di, yes thats why I ask wheteher I can set this option externally only for the machine...
[11:53] <man-di> MadMan2k: perhaps setting MAKE_FLAGS externally and then exporting it via debuild -eMAKE_FLAGS, but its not garanteed
[11:54] <man-di> MadMan2k: No garantee, I dont tested this
[11:54] <MadMan2k> ok, thx
[12:57] <tsmithe> zakame, ping
[12:58] <tsmithe> hmm he's asleep
[12:58] <pkern> ogra: I'm not entirely sure if it was you I talked with some time ago. Gobby does not depend on howl compat APIs anymore but uses Avahi natively.
[01:00] <pkern> lionel: Thanks for stopping the Gobby merge.
[01:01] <bluekuja> pkern, heya
[01:01] <lionel> pkern: no pb :)
[01:01] <bluekuja> pkern, when will it be available?
[01:01] <lionel> pkern: thanks to you for keeping an eye on it:)
[01:02] <pkern> bluekuja: When will what be available?
[01:02] <lionel> bluekuja: it's not a question for pkern. The question is when archive admin will sync it. (need autosync)
[01:02] <pkern> Aye.
[01:02] <bluekuja> yea
[01:02] <lionel> so next week is the answer :)
[01:02] <bluekuja> ok, thanks 
[01:04] <pkern> lionel: It would be nice if obby_0.4.4-2 could also be synced. This tightens the shlibs so that packages depending on it receive the correct dependencies. It's not strictly necessary, though.
[01:04] <pkern> lionel: net6 does not need to be synced beforehand.
[01:04] <lionel> pkern: yeah, I've seen your Debian upload
[01:04] <pkern> lionel: I don't know how you handle syncs nowadays (:
[01:05] <lionel> pkern: the two packages have no modifications, so they will be pushed in Ubuntu with the same autosync
[01:05] <lionel> pkern: it's easy
[01:05] <lionel> if we are in autosync period, on a regular basis, we have full import from Debian
[01:06] <lionel> on June 21st, we will stop this autosync
[01:06] <lionel> we will have to do request sync and they will be performed manually
[01:08] <pkern> lionel: Ok, so you track sid in any case, fine. What are the rules for universe SRUs? #95967 and #70653 are most probably both fixed by the newest revisions. (More or less two one-liners...)
[01:09] <Kmos> crimsun: are you there?
[01:10] <tsmithe> he's asleep i think
[01:10] <tsmithe> (and his away message would agree)
[01:10] <pkern> lionel: One is a crash which is triggered when one tries to reconnect to a session. The other one is sporadingly popping up, a null pointer dereference.
[01:10] <pkern> lionel: Or rather dereference of an already freed pointer.
[01:11] <Kmos> tsmithe :)
[01:11] <lionel> You have the full process described here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/SRU
[01:11] <Kmos> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/aegis-virus-scanner/0.1.1-1 -> no more supported by author
[01:11] <lionel> we have to first prepare a debdiff to be reviewed by SRU
[01:12] <lionel> when approved, get it uploaded and tested
[01:12] <lionel> and then it's pushed in stable release
[01:12] <lionel> the most difficult part is get it tested :-(
[01:12] <pkern> Well the net6 fix is straightforward but needs a recompile of Gobby and isn't that evident.
[01:13] <pkern> Hm.
[01:13] <lionel> gobby and sobby even no?
[01:14] <pkern> I'm not using Ubuntu so well... it's harder for me to get involved. ;-p
[01:15] <lionel> pkern: As I use gobby and sobby everyday, I'm fine with helping on that :)
[01:15] <pkern> lionel: Yep, both.
[01:16] <pkern> lionel: On gobby.ubuntu.com? (:
[01:16] <tobiasschulz> MOTUs: can someone please check ans maybe advocate jeliza ( http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5590 ) ?
[01:16] <lionel> no, I run my own server for french translation team (for translating Weekly Ubuntu News and Fullcircle, the magazine)
[01:16] <pkern> Heh. (=
[01:17] <pkern> It's really nice to see the program in wider use. Despite it lacking undo.
[01:23] <lionel> Yeah, we often have this debate regarding undu...
[01:23] <lionel> But it's quite complicated to implement no? Should undo cancel your action or someone else action? Not easy...
[01:25] <tsmithe> could somone archive http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5581 ? i uploaded it by accident...
[01:25] <pochu> tobiasschulz: I don't think you need this at all... http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/jeliza-0706170500/jeliza-2.3~beta3/debian/README.Debian-source
[01:26] <pochu> The README.Debian-source is for when you repackage the upstream tarball, AFAIK
[01:27] <pochu> tobiasschulz: also, the Ubuntu revision should be 0ubuntu1, instead of ubuntu1 (the 0 is the Debian revision)
[01:28] <tobiasschulz> someone has written on http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5590 :
[01:28] <tobiasschulz> 1) The package appears to be shipping compiled object code, not cleaned in the clean: rule (.a files). 
[01:28] <tobiasschulz> 2) The package doesnt appear to do anything dur to the build:rule. Is the C++ code intended to compile? If not, why not?(README.Debian-source is a good place for the answer to this question).
[01:28] <tobiasschulz> 3) If the C++ is intended to be compiled, you may want to check the library packaging guidelines.
[01:28] <tobiasschulz> 4) Is there a reason to only use python-2.4?
[01:28] <tobiasschulz> 5) Why is Changelog better than changelog.txt?
[01:28] <tobiasschulz> 6) debian/copyright specifies the GPL, but not all sources contain a GPL header.
[01:28] <tobiasschulz> (README.Debian-source is a good place for the answer to this question).
[01:29] <StevenK> crimsun: I'd like to discuss bug 118734 when you're around.
[01:29] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 118734 in atlas-cpp "Please sync atlas-cpp (universe) from Debian Unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Rejected]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/118734
[01:31] <pochu> tobiasschulz: I see, Ok :)
[01:32] <pochu> But you can still fix the revision number :)
[01:32] <tobiasschulz> ok
[01:36] <pochu> tobiasschulz: I can't understand why the package has 2 identical changelogs...
[01:36] <pochu> And why we include both :)
[02:05] <jussi01> hello all!!
[02:06] <jussi01> hello Hobbsee
[02:06] <Hobbsee> hey jussi01!
[02:06] <Fujitsu> Hi Hobbsee.
[02:07] <Hobbsee> hiya Fujitsu!
[02:07] <geser> Hi Hobbsee
[02:11] <bluekuja> heya geser 
[02:12] <bluekuja> geser: I've reported that bug to debian too (for qgis). Now we have to wait to get it fixed there, and then merge it in ubuntu (next revision)
[02:13] <tobiasschulz> pochu: i'll upload it now
[02:24] <tobiasschulz> pochu: i'ts uploaded now : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5600
[02:30] <Kmos> what's the dh_* to create the menu entry from .desktop file
[02:31] <tobiasschulz> dh_*?
[02:31] <Kmos> dh_installmenu for example
[02:31] <bashelier> Kmos: there is no, just put the .desktop in debian/, and install it via a .install file ;)
[02:31] <tobiasschulz> and how?
[02:32] <Kmos> bashelier: ok, thx
[02:32] <Kmos> tobiasschulz: bashelier answers me
[03:00] <tarzeau> i've got a launchpad.net account. and a pgp key and ssh key
[03:00] <tarzeau> can i make ubuntu packages here and dput them somewhere?
[03:01] <RAOF> !revu
[03:01] <ubotu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
[03:01] <tarzeau> or was that in another ubuntu room?
[03:01] <RAOF> Tada!
[03:02] <tarzeau> how can i know my gpg key is in revu keyring?
[03:02] <Hobbsee> see that webpage
[03:02] <tarzeau> oh let me just read it
[03:02] <RAOF> tarzeau: Well, you follow the link in that factlet :)
[03:02] <Hobbsee> and it's not, until you join the appropriate team
[03:04] <tarzeau> "Successfully joined Contributors of packages for ubuntu universe."
[03:05] <tarzeau> can a revu admins re-sync the uploaders keyring?
[03:06] <Hobbsee> sure, it'll be abotu 10 mins
[03:06] <tarzeau> cool.. i've added the revu config to my dput
[03:15] <Hobbsee> tarzeau: tis done
[03:16] <tarzeau> Hobbsee: thanks!
[03:16] <Hobbsee> no problem
[03:16] <tarzeau> must packages be signed that i dput?
[03:16] <StevenK> tarzeau: Yes
[03:16] <tarzeau> (because i have many build hosts, and my gpg keys are only on one computer)
[03:17] <Hobbsee> use debsign -r
[03:57] <Adri2000> RainCT: ping
[04:03] <Adri2000> RainCT: are you still working on merging gfax (bug #120245) ?
[04:04] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 120245 in gfax "gfax: merge new debian version (0.7.6-3)" [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/120245
[04:45] <RainCT> Adri2000: hi
[04:46] <RainCT> Adri2000: have I marked it as in progress? didn't remember about it, don't have much time this weekend..
[04:48] <Adri2000> RainCT: yes you marked it as in progress. when do you think you will have time to do it?
[04:49] <RainCT> Adri2000: tomorrow
[04:49] <RainCT> I've holidays now
[04:50] <Adri2000> cool, could you assign it you on DaD please?
[04:51] <Adri2000> to you*
[04:52] <RainCT> Adri2000: sure, how can I do this?
[04:54] <Adri2000> just put your (nick)name in the comment field
[04:55] <Adri2000> there is currently "Adri2000", click on it, change it and press enter
[04:56] <RainCT> what url?
[04:58] <Adri2000> http://dad.dunnewind.net/universe.php
[04:58] <RainCT> ok, thanks
[04:58] <RainCT> done
[05:04] <RainCT> Adri2000: so that's where I've to assign packages I work on to myself? on the wiki it only says to file a bug
[05:10] <DarkSun88> Hi all
[05:10] <Hobbsee> hiya
[05:10] <jussi01> hi DarkSun88
[05:10] <DarkSun88> :)
[05:11] <Adri2000> RainCT: DaD is not "official"... but it's easier for everyone to see who is working on what on the same page, rather than looking for merge bugs
[05:21] <Adri2000> jdong: around? (for a -backports upload check)
[06:06] <AndyP> are there any repercussions from adding patches that would change the translation templates of the package? like patching _("foo") to _("bar") in a .c file
[06:23] <pH> hi everyone, i would be interested in contributing to ubuntu but i'm unexperimented. i'v read some things about mentoring but i did not really understood how to find a mentor
[06:24] <pochu> Hello pH :)
[06:25] <pochu> This link has all the information to get a mentor: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring
[06:25] <pH> hi 
[06:25] <pochu> Also, you can ask here for help
[06:28] <pH> yes i'v read this pages, but to find a mentor i'v got to mail someone or ask on the ubuntu-motu-mentors ? it is not very clear
[06:28] <Bassetts> azureus seems to be borken
[06:28] <Bassetts> *broken
[06:28] <LaserJock> pH: I think you can treat ubuntu-motu-mentors as your mentor
[06:29] <LaserJock> Bassetts: did you file a bug report about it?
[06:29] <AndyP> i treat #ubuntu-motu as my mentor :)
[06:29] <Bassetts> i came to ask if i should
[06:30] <LaserJock> Bassetts: if it's broken it sounds like a good  idea ;-)
[06:30] <LaserJock> just make sure to check to see that it's not already reported first
[06:30] <Hobbsee> LaserJock!!!
[06:30] <LaserJock> Hobbsee!!
[06:30] <Hobbsee> or just...fix it.  azureus always seems to be broken
[06:31] <Bassetts> LaserJock, i will
[06:32] <Bassetts> Hobbsee, i have no idea how to fix it, just a clueless noob trying to help out where i can
[06:33] <Bassetts> ok theres alot of duplicates saying azureus crashes just after start
[06:40] <Bassetts> i have never looked into motu's before, but always wondered how to package things for ubuntu
[06:42] <LaserJock> Bassetts: well, this is the place to learn ;-)
[06:42] <Bassetts> reading the wiki now about packaging
[06:42] <Bassetts> is there like anywhere i could find out what needs work on?
[06:43] <stgraber> I think there is a need packaging list on LP
[06:43] <stgraber> or a tag
[06:43] <Bassetts> ok
[06:44] <pochu> !todo
[06:44] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about todo - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[06:44] <stgraber> Have a look here : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=needs-packaging
[06:44] <pochu> And here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO :)
[06:45] <stgraber> hey pochu
[06:45] <pochu> heya stgraber :-)
[06:45] <Bassetts> thanks stgraber 
[06:46] <Bassetts> so i just pick something i would like to package and read the guide, learn from mistakes?
[06:48] <Bassetts> do i need to know hot to program?
[06:50] <stgraber> Bassetts: also check it isn't packaged or going to be packaged in Debian and nothing is working on it (revu.tauware.de is a good place to check)
[06:50] <stgraber> Bassetts: then yes, package it, you shouldn't need much programming skill (except writing the rules script (which is quite easy even for non-programer I think))
[06:51] <Bassetts> cool =)
[06:51] <Bassetts> ive always wanted to get around to learning to program and packaging 
[06:52] <Bassetts> stgraber, where would i find out if it is being packaged in debian?
[06:53] <stgraber> Bassetts: IIRC, you can find that on their bug tracker
[06:53] <pochu> bugs.debian.org/wnpp
[06:53] <Bassetts> ok
[06:53] <Bassetts> thanks
[06:53] <Bassetts> your all so helpful =)
[06:53] <Bassetts> and patient
[06:54] <stgraber> I think we all were at your place once :) (I still have much to learn about packaging though)
[06:55] <Bassetts> :)
[07:03] <RainCT> for what is the debian/patches/00list file?
[07:03] <Hobbsee> to list all the patches in debian/patches/ that get applied
[07:03] <Hobbsee> er, that should get applied
[07:05] <RainCT> ah. is it normal that there're 7 .dpatch files in debian/patches/ but only 3 on the 00list?
[07:05] <Hobbsee> if 4 have stopped being applied for whatever reason - changelog will usually tell you
[07:05] <Hobbsee> as for why they arent removed ont that basis, i dont know
[07:07] <RainCT> Hobbsee: ah yes, on the changelog it says they are not needed anymore. Thanks :)
[07:18] <Bassetts> im so lost with the docs
[07:20] <Bassetts> what does it mean by the *.dsc when using pbuilder build
[07:21] <Hobbsee> Bassetts: * is a wildcard - ie, it'll try to build [anything] .dsc
[07:21] <Bassetts> but what is the .dsc
[07:23] <Hobbsee> open oen with $texteditorofchoice
[07:23] <Hobbsee> :)
[07:23] <Hobbsee> it's part of the source
[07:23] <Bassetts> so when i get the .tar.gz files there is one in there?
[07:24] <Hobbsee> when you download a source from ubuntu, it has a .orig.tar.gz, a .diff.gz, and a .dsc
[07:24] <Bassetts> ok
[07:24] <AndyP> Bassetts: a source package is made up from three files - the .orig.tar.gz, the .dsc and the .diff.gz. the .dsc is the "description" of the source package, the .orig.tar.gz is the original source package (usually untouched) and the .diff.gz is the changes added to turn the .orig.tar.gz into the debian package source
[07:24] <Bassetts> i think i am in wayyy over my head
[07:25] <Hobbsee> Bassetts: dont worry, you'll learn.  you dont have to understand every detail
[07:25] <AndyP> don't worry, you don't really need to know these details in depth :)
[07:25] <Bassetts> ok
[07:25] <Hobbsee> as you will likely pick it up later anyway
[07:25] <Hobbsee> PACKAGING POP QUIZ
[07:25] <Hobbsee> :
[07:25] <Hobbsee> :P
[07:25] <Bassetts> just keep reading and holding in there?
[07:25] <Hobbsee> AndyP: please dont.  i'm heading towards bed
[07:25] <Hobbsee> Bassetts: yep
[07:26] <Bassetts> ok
[07:26] <AndyP> Hobbsee: oh, ok, have a good soup, err, sleep
[07:26] <Bassetts> can you give me an example of a .dsc though?
[07:26] <Hobbsee> heh
[07:27] <AndyP> Bassetts: pick any package, run apt-get source <thepackagename> and it'll download the source package for you... the dsc will be one of the three files
[07:27] <Bassetts> ok
[07:28] <Bassetts> but what about packages that need packaging, they are not in the repos yet right?
[07:28] <AndyP> by definition, yes
[07:29] <Bassetts> ok
[07:29] <Bassetts> so like bug 120754 says PhotoRec needs packaging
[07:29] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 120754 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging]  PhotoRec" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/120754
[07:29] <Bassetts> the source for that program is in the repos, but it is not packaged yet
[07:30] <AndyP> Bassetts: yep, and you can check it's not in the repos yet using apt-cache search <package> or by searching on http://packages.ubuntu.com
[07:31] <Bassetts> ok, what happens if the source is not there
[07:31] <Bassetts> im starting to get this =D thank you for being so patient
[07:31] <AndyP> "there" ?
[07:32] <Bassetts> in the repos
[07:33] <AndyP> best thing to do is look to see if it's being/been packaged for debian and if it isn't, go ahead and package it
[07:35] <Bassetts> i just dont get how like every programs source can be in ubuntus repo, its mysterious 
[07:35] <Hobbsee> only the stuff that's been packaged for debian and ubuntu is in there
[07:35] <Hobbsee> not every single program known to man
[07:35] <Bassetts> ok, my brain is getting there
[07:35] <Bassetts> if it has been packaged for ubuntu, why am i packaging it?
[07:35] <Hobbsee> you shouldnt be
[07:35] <AndyP> you wouldn't need to
[07:35] <Bassetts> right
[07:36] <Bassetts> so basically if something needs packaging it wont have a .dsc?
[07:37] <AndyP> it won't exist in the ubuntu archive/repository at all
[07:37] <RainCT> Adri2000: ping
[07:38] <Bassetts> ok, i think i got confused because bug 120754 is already in the repos as testdisk
[07:38] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 120754 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging]  PhotoRec" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/120754
[07:39] <Hobbsee> Bassetts: if it's the same program as testdisk, then you can mark the bug as fix released, and say as much on the bug report :)
[07:39] <Bassetts> well PhotoRec is a companion program to testdisk
[07:39] <Bassetts> and testdisk is in the repos..
[07:39] <Hobbsee> it seems that photorec is there too, looking at the descriptoin
[07:40] <AndyP> Bassetts: well spotted :)
[07:40] <Bassetts> they come together
[07:40] <Bassetts> trust me to pick a program thats already there =P
[07:40] <Hobbsee> hehe
[07:40] <Hobbsee> people have been filing bugs without checking recently
[07:41] <RainCT> Adri2000: in gfax, there are 2 .gmo files in Ubuntu (de.gmo and en_CA.gmo) that aren't in Debian, do you know what they are?
[07:42] <Bassetts> Hobbsee, you beat me to it =P
[07:42] <Hobbsee> :)
[07:42] <Bassetts> ok ill find another program to try and work on
[07:45] <Bassetts> how do i check if its in debian or if it is being packaged for debian
[07:45] <RainCT> !info libevolution2.0-cil
[07:45] <ubotu> Package libevolution2.0-cil does not exist in feisty, feisty-seveas
[07:46] <RainCT> can ubotu also look in gutsy?
[07:46] <Hobbsee> yes
[07:46] <Hobbsee> !info basket gutsy
[07:46] <ubotu> basket: a multi-purpose note-taking application for KDE. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.0.2-2 (gutsy), package size 4853 kB, installed size 7540 kB
[07:47] <RainCT> !info libevolution2.0-cil gutsy
[07:47] <ubotu> libevolution2.0-cil: CLI bindings for Evolution. In component main, is optional. Version 0.12.4-0ubuntu1 (gutsy), package size 75 kB, installed size 360 kB
[07:49] <AndyP> Bassetts: packages.debian.org for packages in debian already or bugs.debian.org/wnpp for packages that are intended to be packaged
[07:49] <Bassetts> thanks
[07:51] <AndyP> !info pybackpack sid
[07:52] <ubotu> pybackpack: A user friendly file backup tool for Gnome. In component main, is optional. Version 0.5.1-1 (sid), package size 52 kB, installed size 428 kB
[07:52] <Bassetts> a bit hard to use the wnpp site
[07:53] <AndyP> Bassetts: yeah, there are a lot of bugs listed... edit->find is your friend :)
[07:53] <AndyP> or ctrl+f
[07:54] <Bassetts> ok =)
[07:54] <Bassetts> starting to get all this now
[07:55] <AndyP> Bassetts: yeah, the learning curve is pretty steep at the beginning but you get into the flow after a short while
[07:56] <Bassetts> =)
[08:00] <Bassetts> thanks AndyP, this is getting a lot easier
[08:06] <AndyP> Bassetts: you're welcome
[08:43] <Adri2000> RainCT: where do you see that? the .gmo files are in the orig tarball, which is exactly the same in Debian and in Ubuntu
[08:44] <RainCT> Adri2000: ah, but M-o-M put them as *.gmo.UBUNTU :S
[08:59] <crevette> hello
[09:00] <crevette> are there tips available on the wiki to package python softs ?
[09:03] <AndyP> crevette: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy is a good place to start
[09:03] <RainCT> Adri2000: well, beside these two files (.gmo) I think the other changes can be synced
[09:03] <RainCT> and those I've now idea what they are :p
[09:05] <crevette> AndyP: tx a lot, I'll look at it
[09:13] <RainCT> siretart: ping
[09:15] <vijay2000> hi all 
[09:15] <geser> RainCT: if I'm not mistaken he's at debconf
[09:16] <RainCT> oh, ok, thx
[09:18] <siretart> RainCT: pong
[09:18] <RainCT> if I run dpatch-edit-patch I get make: *** No rule to make target `unpatch'.  Stop., does anybody know what the problem can be (or better, how I can workaround it)
[09:18] <siretart> RainCT: read the dpatch documentation. you basically need to include a dpatch make fragment in your debian/rules files
[09:19] <RainCT> siretart: I'm getting this problem with chromium, since you are the latest maintainer I thought I'd ask you
[09:20] <vijay2000> i am changing notecase from 1.0.5 to 1.5.6 
[09:20] <vijay2000> so in teh changelog wat will be the version that will be mentione d
[09:21] <vijay2000> is this right notecase (1.0.5-6) ??
[09:22] <RainCT> vijay2000: wouldn't it be 1.5.6-0ubuntu1 ?
[09:24] <vijay2000> RainCT: yes you are right thanks 
[09:24] <RainCT> siretart: ah I isn't using dpatch anymore :p
[09:47] <siretart> RainCT: I don't like dpatch that much. prefer bzr
[09:47] <siretart> geser: and yes, I'm at debconf
[09:55] <RainCT> siretart: eh? I was asking how to patch chromium (got it :)), what relation does this have with bzr?
[09:56] <siretart> RainCT: that I think that bzr is far superiour to dpatch
[09:57] <RainCT> siretart: isn't bzr a versioning system?
[09:57] <siretart> RainCT: yes. and dpatch is a patch management system. I think a proper versioning system is uperiour
[09:58] <RainCT> well, and what has this to do with what I was asking for? :p
[09:59] <siretart> only that I don't like dpatch
[10:05] <sistpoty> hi folks
[10:08] <geser> Hi sistpoty
[10:08] <sistpoty> hi geser
[10:15] <sistpoty> Adri2000: around?
[10:31] <crimsun> StevenK: pong, RE: 118734
[10:46] <DarkSun88> Hi all
[11:17] <pochu> HALA MADRID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[11:17] <pochu> I had to say it, now I feel better :-)
[11:24] <bmm> Any MOTU: ccbuild is looking for it's second advocate, if you have time http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5570
[11:26] <sistpoty> ok, gotta go to bed now, cya
[11:38] <bmm> cya
[11:40] <TLE> Hey most noble Master Of The Universe. Is there any chance that the new versione og everybodys favorite editor (Emacs) will be packaged for Feisty ?
[11:40] <pochu> You can request a backport.
[11:41] <pochu> https://bugs.launchpad.net/feisty-backports/+filebug
[11:42] <TLE> will do ! I just kindy thought that i might have come up already. Thanks
[11:42] <pochu> You're welcome
[11:43] <geser> TLE: you mean emacs 22?
[11:43] <geser> is it already packaged in Debian?
[11:44] <man-di> geser: its in debian experimental
[11:45] <man-di> geser: but not the final version
[11:49] <Kmos> http://dad.dunnewind.net/universe.php
[11:51] <TLE> geser: Well it's not that I can't get my hands on it. I could just install it from source. I just like to try and keep my system as "clean" as possible (by installing as much software from repos as possible). I'm a little wierd when it comes to stuff like that
[11:51] <TLE> I've filed a backport request. Thanks for the replies.
[11:53] <jmg> what does DaD stand for?
[11:54] <Kmos> jmg: check it =)
[11:54] <geser> TLE: you can only backport packages which are in gutsy
[11:54] <geser> jmg: it's an other MoM
[11:55] <jmg> It just says DaD
[11:55] <jmg> Mom = merge o'matic
[11:55] <jmg> ?
[11:55] <geser> yes
[11:55] <jmg> hahahah
[11:55] <jmg> lololol
[11:56] <Q-FUNK> gutsy mom.  yikes!
[11:56] <jmg> kekekkee
[11:56] <jmg> jejejeje
[11:56] <jmg> i laugh internationally
[11:56] <jmg> zezezeze
[12:03] <bmm> I laugh in my own language OR any other: 0xFFFFFFFF
[12:03] <joejaxx> lol
[12:05] <jmg> lambda while true; print lol
[12:05] <jmg> lambda while true:; print lol