/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2007/06/18/#ubuntu-devel.txt

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Hobbseemorning all06:10
desrtgood evening06:11
Hobbsee:)06:11
Hobbseeer, afternoon06:11
desrtsince you're clearly unaware of what the time is there, we shall use my timezone.06:12
Hobbseeheh06:12
Hobbseeapparently it's 2pm06:13
Burgundaviahello people06:13
desrtand... uh... "good morning"06:13
desrt(technically)06:13
Hobbseehi weaselboy06:13
=== Hobbsee ducks
desrti think you mean beaverboy06:13
Hobbseeahhh...a new name!06:13
desrtthe beaver is a proud and noble animal06:13
Burgundaviaindeed06:14
calcHobbsee: good evening :)06:14
Hobbseeheya calc!06:14
calcits 11:14pm ;)06:14
fabbionemorning guys06:16
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Hobbseemorning fabbione!06:19
fabbionehey Hobbsee 06:19
desrtfabbione; 'sup?06:21
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fabbionedesrt: not sure.. i will tell you once i am awake06:24
desrtyou type well for a sleeping person :)06:24
Hobbseeit's a skill06:24
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LongPointyStickIn the ancient words of our leader, "Oh Shit."06:56
StevenKLongPointyStick: Hum?07:01
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pittiGood morning07:16
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pittihey StevenK, how are you?07:17
StevenKpitti: All told, I'd rather be at home than working, but what can do you do? :-)07:18
StevenKs/can do/can/07:18
pitti:)07:18
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Hobbseemorning pitti 07:22
pittihey Hobbsee 07:23
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Hobbseeoh impressive.07:27
=== Hobbsee has now found a bug.
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dholbachgood morning08:24
pygimorning dholbach 08:24
dholbachhi pygi08:25
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Hobbsee_....08:46
Hobbseeokay, the patch that stopped my system hanging in xorg 7.2 clearly wasnt taken for 7.308:47
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BurgundaviaHobbsee: it might have been one of the fedora ones that was just dropped08:47
HobbseeBurgundavia: it was one that was written in one of our bug reports.08:48
Hobbseei'll have to look it up later08:48
Hobbseeit just hangs X - everything else still works08:48
Hobbseeso, X hardlocks, but music, etc, keeps playing.08:48
BurgundaviaI have been having an issue with NetworkManager hard locking my system08:49
Burgundaviaseems to only happen on resume08:49
Hobbseebug #6028808:51
ubotuLaunchpad bug 60288 in xorg-server "xorg segfaults in libglx.so(__glXleaveServer+0x22)" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/6028808:51
Hobbseethat's the one.08:52
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ccm*moan*08:57
dholbachhey ccm08:57
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Hobbseeer, chook08:58
=== Hobbsee --> work. bye all!
ccmhi dholbach 08:58
dholbachseeya Hobbsee08:58
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cotyrotheryhey 09:39
cotyrotherycan someone help me out im new to c++09:39
cotyrotheryim trying to learn it so i can help with ubuntu09:39
Burgundaviacotyrothery: what are you trying to help with?09:41
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cotyrotheryprogramming the core and anything else 09:42
cotyrotheryi really have no clue were to start09:42
Burgundaviaahh09:42
cotyrotheryim guessing you guys are experts09:43
Burgundaviacotyrothery: if you are not a prorammer, I would start with python09:43
cotyrotherywhy not c++09:43
cotyrotherywhat is python anyways?09:44
Burgundaviacotyrothery: python is simpler to learn and a lot of GNOME is coded in it09:44
cotyrotheryok09:44
cotyrotheryso were are tuts on it09:44
popeymorning all09:45
Burgundaviapython.org  will get you going09:45
Burgundaviapopey: did you see that email for that dude?09:45
popeycotyrothery: there is a freely downloadable book called "Dive Into Python", it's pretty good09:45
popeyyes Burgundavia, wanted to say "thanks" - I think ;)09:45
cotyrotheryok09:46
cotyrotherywere can i get it09:46
Burgundaviapopey: it that still isntalled by default?09:46
Burgundaviais, rather09:46
RAOFcotyrothery: google says http://www.diveintopython.org/09:46
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popeydunno, but it's easily googleable09:46
cotyrotheryi would have used google but i have a lot of stuff running09:47
cotyrotheryand my computer is going a bit slow09:47
cotyrotheryso once i learn python do i move on to c++09:47
cotyrotherybecause i have a book on c++09:48
RAOFcotyrothery: If you're interested in KDE development, you'll want to know C++.  Apart from that, I don't know of many Gnome projects using it, frankly.09:48
cotyrotheryoh ok09:48
cotyrotheryso i should learn c09:48
cotyrotherydoesnt gnome use c also09:49
RAOFYes.09:49
cotyrotherythats what i thought09:49
RAOFBut mainly for the underlying libraries.  A lot of the GUI stuff is python.09:49
cotyrotheryok09:50
cotyrotheryhow long would it take the avg. person to learn and understand python09:50
RAOFI don'09:50
RAOFI don't know the average person :)09:50
RAOFBut probably on the order of a day or so, if you already know how to program.09:50
RAOFYou won't be a python god after a day, but you should be fairly productive.09:51
cotyrotheryok09:51
cotyrotherycool09:51
RAOFIf you're trying to learn programming at the same time, it'll take a bit longer :)09:51
cotyrotheryso are most of you guys programers for ubuntu09:51
pitticotyrothery: right; it takes years to become a really good programmer (which is independent from the language), but it only takes a couple of days to learn a new language09:52
cotyrotheryok09:53
cotyrotheryi knew that09:53
cotyrotheryso it will take me awhile before i can prog. for ubuntu09:53
pitticotyrothery: nevertheless, if you want to help with Ubuntu you don't need to be a highly skilled programmer; there are lots of things you can help with that do not require programming at all, and lots of things which only require basic understanding of e. g. C or Python09:54
pitticotyrothery: e. g. fixing bugs, searching patches and apply them to packages, etc.09:54
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pitticotyrothery: the best way (IMHO) to get into Ubuntu development if you don't (yet) have a clear focus is to start with a few itches you experience yourself, get used to the bug tracker and bug triage, and fix them09:55
cotyrotheryok09:55
pitticotyrothery: those can be very simple things, like fixing typos or improving documentation, or mediating with upstream and take their patches09:55
cotyrotherybut ubuntu is so great i have never experianced any bugs09:55
pitticotyrothery: that's much more motivating than starting with the most complicated things :)09:56
cotyrotherypitti: good09:56
pitticotyrothery: uh? we have some 30.000 of them :)09:56
cotyrotheryreally?09:56
cotyrotheryi never would have know09:56
cotyrotheryn09:56
pitticotyrothery: that's the number of open bugs in the bug tracker09:56
cotyrotherywow09:56
pitticotyrothery: of course nobody knows the number of bugs that are actually in Ubuntu :)09:56
cotyrotheryI wonder how they effect me09:56
pittibecause that is (1) impossible to define and (2) impossible to count09:57
RAOFAlthough a lot of computer science attempts both :)09:57
pygiin effect to no.2 ) too many of them ^_^09:57
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cotyrotheryI hope it will be fun programming for ubuntu to help the people09:58
pitticotyrothery: btw, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributeToUbuntu is a good entry point09:58
cotyrotheryits so cool to have the chance to do something like this09:58
pitticotyrothery: fun> you bet!09:58
cotyrotherywhat have you done for it09:58
pitticotyrothery: as I said, start with very simple things to get used to the process, packaging, patching, etc., and slowly evolve to the more difficult things09:59
cotyrotherywill do 09:59
cotyrotherywill i need the source09:59
RAOFDepends on what you're trying to do, but generally, yes.09:59
RAOFYou might want to hang around in #ubuntu-motu, actually.10:00
RAOFThat's a good place for people wanting to make stuff better :)10:00
RAOFWe should (hopefully) be able to answer packaging questions, etc.10:00
cotyrotheryok10:01
cotyrotherybut what do you guys do here10:01
cotyrotherylike are you the main prog. of ubuntu10:01
pitticotyrothery: see topic; we coordinate development issues10:01
pitticotyrothery: btw, it would be too much credit to give us to call us 'main programmers'10:01
cotyrotheryoh10:01
pitticotyrothery: as distribution developers we mainly focus on packaging and integrating10:01
RAOFAnd the main work of Ubuntu is not really programming; that's what all the various open-source projects are for :)10:01
cotyrotheryok10:02
cotyrotheryIm taking a guess here but i have a long way to go and a lot of work to go through10:02
RAOFMuch of what needs to be done is to take the work of others (upstream projects) and package it in a form that works well in Ubuntu.10:02
cotyrotheryoh i see10:02
cotyrotheryso make prog. that dont work for ubuntu work for  ubuntu?10:03
RAOFAlmost all open-source software is not "for Ubuntu", it's for everyone.  Firefox, Xorg, Gnome, KDE, etc.10:03
pitticotyrothery: well, "don't work" -> "make it work out of the box, and integrate well with other programs"10:04
cotyrotheryyea10:04
cotyrotheryok10:05
cotyrotheryi see now10:05
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Tonio_pitti, seb128: uploading network-manager 0.6.510:09
pittiyay!10:09
Tonio_pitti: the applet package will end in NEW as discussed on friday.10:09
seb128Tonio_: cool!10:09
seb128k10:09
seb128I'll review it10:09
Tonio_pitti: also, that'll inlude changing the seeds, as the package name changes10:09
pygiseb128, do you have a sec?10:09
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seb128pygi: don't ask to ask10:10
Tonio_I also repackaged/update the pptp, openvpn and vpnc plugins10:10
pygiseb128, I need bug #119725 changed to wishlist10:10
ubotuLaunchpad bug 119725 in brasero "Have pre-defined preference for burning .iso packages" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/11972510:10
pygiseb128, I didn't ask to ask :)10:10
pittiTonio_: no problem; give us a poke here, we'll update it10:10
pygiseb128, I asked a direct question :P10:10
cotyrotherypython is a lot more technical than c++ from what i see10:10
Tonio_pitti: oki10:10
seb128pygi: well, I have a second or not, depending of what you want :p10:10
seb128pygi: changed10:10
pygiseb128, thanks ;)10:11
seb128you're welcome10:11
seb128pygi: I don't really understand the bug though10:11
seb128pygi: is there different iso mimetypes?10:11
RAOFcotyrothery: Want to take this to #ubuntu-offtopic or #ubuntu-motu now that there's some traffic in here?10:11
pygiseb128, nobody does. Shirish is always making troubles, everywhere10:12
pygiseb128, ask Hobbsee when she's around :-/10:12
pygiseb128, nop, not really :)10:12
seb128so it should be Needs Info10:12
pygiperhaps even refuse bug but meh10:12
seb128hum10:12
pygipersonaly I'd refuse the bug =)10:12
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seb128pygi: could you add a comment and I'll Needs Info or Reject it according to it10:13
pygiseb128, kk10:14
pygiseb128, will do right now10:14
seb128cool10:14
Tonio_seb128, pitti should be in new now10:15
pittiTonio_: uh, source new? how that?10:16
seb128pitti: the applet is a new tarball10:17
pygiseb128, done, :)10:17
pittiseb128: ah, right10:17
Tonio_pitti: the standard new queue for new packages10:17
Tonio_pitti: talking about network-manager-applet10:18
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pittiTonio_: right, thinko; ignore me10:18
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pygihow am I supposed to get anything out of bug #120927 o.O10:18
ubotuLaunchpad bug 120927 in brasero "[apport]  brasero crashed with SIGSEGV" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/12092710:18
seb128pygi: bug closed10:18
pygiseb128, thank you :)10:18
seb128you're welcome10:19
pygitoo much thanks today :P10:19
seb128pygi: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/8111099/Stacktrace.txt10:19
pygidoesn't hurt I guess :)10:19
seb128that's what you got from retracing10:19
pittipygi: first_element=0x2 -> that looks wrong10:19
pitti(as a pointer)10:19
pittipygi: unfortunately the rest of the trace is not recoverable10:19
pygipitti, hm, right10:20
=== pygi still has to get used to apport stuff
seb128or brasero-dbgsym didn't get installed10:20
pygiseb128, a question10:21
pygiif there was a replacement ever written for n-c-b would it be *too* important to be api-compatible with libnautilus-burn?10:22
pygi(I do understand that some applications still use it --> perhaps a compatibility layer?)10:22
seb128yeah, would be nice to have a compatibility lib10:23
pygik, got it10:24
pygiseb128, I filed a bug 6 months ago in gnome, and tried to contact n-c-b authors without any success10:25
pygihttp://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=384540 10:25
ubotuLaunchpad bug 6 in rosetta ""next 10 entries" at bottom of page" [Medium,Rejected]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/610:25
ubotuGnome bug 384540 in cd-burner "Libburn/libisofs backend" [Enhancement,Unconfirmed]  10:25
=== pygi thinks that's bugging for more then a sec
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seb128pygi: that's the sort of bug where you have better to send a patch and argue why it would be better than the current code which is working for most users10:29
pygiseb128, I would be ofcourse ready to submit a patch. But the patch would change almost entire n-c-b code, which I believe would be a problem10:30
seb128you better start a discussion on the GNOME desktop-devel-list on why you think libburn would be better than libnautilus-cd-burner then10:30
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=== pygi will see
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lithiumX does anyone know where tour applications go when their installed?11:09
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pittilithiumX: "dpkg -S <packagename>" will print you a list of files; and please ask that in #ubuntu (see topic)11:10
pittilithiumX: erm, dpkg -L, I mean11:10
lithiumXoh ok thank you11:10
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pittiTonio_: did you set up the build-deps of the n-m plugins tight enough for 0.6.5?11:40
Tonio_pitti: yes11:45
Tonio_pitti: they all builddep on >= 0.6.5 version11:46
pittiTonio_: cool, thanks11:46
Tonio_that's a requirement for them to work with the latest Knetworkmanager11:46
pittiTonio_: out of interest, why did you rename network-manager-gnome to network-manager-applet?11:46
pittiwhy not just keep the old name?11:46
pittiTonio_: rest of package looks fine11:48
Tonio_pitti: well I renamed simply to have the deb name the same that upstream name11:49
Tonio_pitti: looks like upstream calls the applet "network-manager-applet"11:49
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pittiTonio_: hmmkay; renames are always painful, that's why I ask11:49
pittiTonio_: anyway you still need to build network-manager-gnome as a transitional package, until the next LTS11:50
giskardLTS?11:50
pittiTonio_: can you please add that and upload again? (or just leave the old name for now)11:50
Tonio_pitti: pittiwould you prefer network-manager-gnome ?11:50
pittiTonio_: for dapper -> next LTS upgrades11:50
Tonio_sure will change that11:50
pittiTonio_: personally I find -gnome better; first, it's really for gnome, and second it avoids the name change11:50
pittiTonio_: but I'll leave that decision to you11:51
pittiTonio_: I reject the current upload, so please reuse the version number11:51
pittiTonio_: (note that you can leave the source package as -applet, and the binary package as -gnome, too)11:52
Tonio_pitti: sure11:52
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Tonio_pitti: ust discovered a little issue concerning networkmanager/gnome and the vpn part12:03
Tonio_pitti: an issue in the way upstream splitted the sources12:03
Tonio_pitti: I'll take care to package the applet the same way that the debian maintainer, we just discussesd about that, so reuploading the package might take a bit of time12:04
Tonio_maybe toonight or tomorrow12:04
pittiTonio_: that sounds fine12:04
pittiTonio_: taking the same name as Debian is much more important than upstream's or our preference :)12:04
pittiTonio_: if the old applet works with the new daemon, that should be fine12:04
Tonio_pitti: well it is not only a problem with the name :)12:04
pittiTonio_: right, I understand; just mentioning it12:05
Tonio_pitti: the problem is that the split is only partial in fact, some of the gnome datas are still in the backend tarball..... so as a result we might need 2 packages for the gnome part, so 2 names.....12:05
Tonio_mbiebl: sounds like we need to be sure we're doing this the same way so please ping me when you're arrond :)12:06
pittiTonio_: you mean that the daemon package builds the 'other part' of the applet?12:06
Tonio_arround12:06
pittithat would be nasty12:06
Tonio_pitti: yes, it builds the vpn-properties for example which is part of the gnome part....12:06
Tonio_pitti: means would could have as a result a network-manager-gnome and a network-manager-applet depending n-m-gnome12:07
pittiugh, indeed that should be avoided12:08
Tonio_pitti: another option (dirty) is to merge the 2 tarballs...12:11
Tonio_pitti: what would you suggest in that case ?12:11
pittiTonio_: copying the gnome relevant bits into the -applet/-gnome orig.tar.gz doesn't sound too bad, as long as the split will be finished upstream eventually12:12
pittiTonio_: or keep the bits in the main package and teach dh_shlibdeps to ignore the gnome dependencies12:12
Tonio_hum, so doing this in the form of a patch then12:13
Tonio_talking about the first option of coruse12:13
pittiwe don't want to keep such a patch forever, so it should only be copied if upstream will split it properly12:13
Tonio_sure12:13
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Tonio_pitti: isn't iproute installed on the buildd machines ?12:42
fabbioneTonio_: why would it be installed by default?12:43
Mithrandirapt-cache show iproute | grep Prio12:43
MithrandirPriority: important12:43
Mithrandirso no, it won't be there by default12:43
Tonio_Mithrandir: hum okay12:43
Tonio_fabbione: just asking since it was installed in my pbuilder chroot12:44
Mithrandirit shouldn't be.12:44
Tonio_fabbione: so I missed a builddep because of that :)12:44
fabbioneTonio_: pbuilder chroots != debootstrap --variant=buildd12:44
Tonio_fabbione: indeed12:44
simirafabbione :) How's the family?12:45
fabbioneTonio_: best is to use the latter if you are checking for B-D12:45
fabbionesimira: hey there... growing :)))12:45
fabbionesimira: but fine i guess12:45
simirafabbione: I heard that...busy times12:45
fabbionesimira: yeah...12:45
simirahas nr. 2 arrived yet?12:46
fabbionesimira: nah... mid-dic12:47
simiraok12:47
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StevenKHrm. Apport retracing seems to have gone crazy12:54
pochuNew feature ;)12:55
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shawarmaStevenK: No, pitti has been cleaning house.12:55
shawarmaStevenK: ..assuming you're referring to the load of lp e-mails about removed attachments?12:56
pittiStevenK: sorry that Malone sends bug mail spam for attachment removals12:56
StevenKAnd six mails that looked virtually identical.12:57
Tonio_pitti: n-m ftbfs due to missing iproute, I'll wait for a solution with the split problem to reupload now...12:57
pochuThey might be dups...12:57
pittiTonio_: sure, if you think that's better12:58
pittiTonio_: curious, though, iproute as a *build* dependency strikes me as pretty mad12:58
=== pitti -> lunch, bbl
Tonio_pitti: configure checks for it, that looks to be new with that version....12:59
Mithrandirpitti: some configure scripts try to detect paths and such for it.12:59
pittiah, that makes sense12:59
StevenKMithrandir: How debconf?01:00
StevenKHow's, even.01:00
MithrandirStevenK: iz good.  Lots of interesting discussions01:00
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pochupitti: the problem is that 90% of coredump removals are duplicates.01:13
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pittipochu: what do you mean with 'duplicate removals'? what's the problem?01:35
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adam0509hi, I'd like to know if a package for "Linux2.4 kernel with debian patches" will be available for next LTS release ?01:40
ograubuntu never supported 2.401:40
ograso thats very unlikely01:41
adam0509I don't ask about a pre-compiled kernel, just a package containing a 2.4 kernel for compiling01:42
adam0509because kernel.org kernels aren't very adapted, and If you try to add ALSA (from package alsa-source) then you get errors01:42
pygithat would be source package01:43
pygidoubt it01:43
pochupitti: e.g. for Bug #85776, apport is removing the Coredump for the 118 dups, and malone sends the messages... which means a lot of 'spam' even if you're just subscribed to that bug, or to any of the duplicates01:43
ubotuLaunchpad bug 85776 in gnome-panel "[apport]  gnome-panel crashed with SIGSEGV on package installation, valgrind log required" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/8577601:43
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pochupitti: for example some people reported one of those dups, and I don't think they want to receive 119 messages saying a Coredump has been removed ;)01:44
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pittipochu: oh, right, you mean the spam01:48
pygipochu, agreed :P01:49
pygipochu, network manager :P01:50
pochuYes. I don't care that much (I just mark it as unread), bug as dholbach's said on -bugs, 'how many people will unsubscribe from random -bugs@ lists after that'01:50
pochupygi: that and the gnome-panel, yes ;)01:50
pochuLuckily, this is the consequence of the first run, and won't be that much01:52
pochuMostly because apport is still disable :)01:52
pygipochu, hm ... good thing it's not enabled then :P01:52
=== pygi will brb
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=== Topic for #ubuntu-devel: Development of Ubuntu (not support, even with gutsy; not application development on Ubuntu) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper/edgy/feisty | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs | Tribe-1 released
=== Topic (#ubuntu-devel): set by pitti at Thu Jun 14 08:55:05 2007
(StevenK/#ubuntu-devel) pitti: Ta03:37
(StevenK/#ubuntu-devel) pitti: I might need to fix it anyway, it appears in the cruft list, too03:37
StevenKIt does, it explicitly wants libsnmp9-dev03:39
pittiStevenK: hm, any idea what heartbeat vs. heartbeat-2 is all about?03:39
luisbghello all03:39
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StevenKpitti: No, actually, although amusingly, heartbeat's version is larger than heartbeat-2's.03:40
luisbgall my mails to the ubuntu-devel mail list need to be approved by a moderator before going through, can I ask somebody to grant me straight through access?03:40
pittiStevenK: indeed, heartbeat-2 was removed from Debian03:40
StevenKKill it!03:40
=== pitti kicks
StevenKYay!03:41
Hobbseeluisbg: you're looking for cjwatson.  and often the answer to that is "no" if you're not part of ~ubuntu-dev03:41
siretartpitti: sorry, my bad, the package isn't NBS. it's just not on launchpad's source package site03:41
luisbgHobbsee, oooh ok, just wondering, I'll ask when I'm part of that team =)03:42
siretartpitti: it is an empty convinience package for faciliating support. I hope nothing depends on it03:42
StevenKpitti: I need to make changes to openipmi, but I'm not sure if I should set the Maintainer to MOTU or core-dev. :-)03:42
pittisiretart: cprov currently looks for the reason why the latest version isn't in the archive, but that's an unrelated problem, as it seems03:42
siretartcprov: btw, I didn't get an ACCEPTED mail for my last ppa upload. the package got built anyway hoever03:42
shawarmaStevenK: Huh? heartbeat is 1.2.5-4, while heartbeat-2 is 2.0.8-2?03:43
StevenKshawarma: Binary, the source is the DEPWAIT03:43
StevenKs/the //03:43
=== shawarma crawls back under his rock
StevenKHeh03:44
=== Hobbsee removes shawarma's rock
shawarmaAw..03:44
Hobbseeno rock for you.03:44
cprovsiretart: when was it ?03:44
pittiStevenK: erk, opemipmi is not a trivial package at all03:44
=== Hobbsee then places it in australia, and names it Uluru #2
StevenKpitti: I saw that.03:45
=== shawarma sulks
StevenKpitti: heartbeat isn't in a position to be demoted?03:45
fabbionehmmm03:45
fabbionedo we really want to support hearbeat?03:45
cprovsiretart: check your spams -> '20:40:09 DEBUG    Recipients: Reinhard Tartler <siretart@tauware.de>'03:45
pittisiretart: got it; libxine1 is in binary NEW03:45
pittisiretart: for the -doc package03:46
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StevenKfabbione: ubuntu-dev doesn't want to either. :-P03:46
siretartpitti: right.03:47
pittifabbione: not for my sake; we haven't touched it much03:47
StevenKpitti: Shall I leave heartbeat/openipmi alone for a little while?03:47
fabbionehmmm03:47
fabbionethe only 2 interesting bits that Suggets it are ipvsadm03:48
pittiStevenK: yes, please; just start with the other rdeps while we sort this out03:48
pittifabbione: no reverse deps, I already checked that03:48
fabbioneand possibly drdb03:48
fabbioneyeah03:48
fabbioneSuggets:03:48
shawarmafabbione: It's my impression that it's still the canonical (no pun intended) HA software?03:48
StevenKHah03:48
fabbioneshawarma: nope...03:48
StevenKTo be honest, given we use heartbeat at $WORK, it's a piece of crap. :-)03:49
pittihm, why is it in main in the first place? I don't see a seed for it03:49
fabbionethe canonical cluster is redhat-cluster-suite and/or ocfs2-tools03:49
fabbionepitti: i think we did drag it in main because at the time we had no RHCS03:49
fabbione(or ocfs2-tools for the matter)03:49
fabbionethis is probably warty history in the seeds03:49
pittifabbione: I mean, can you point me to a seed or reverse dependency that keeps it in main? I don't see one03:50
shawarmafabbione: Hmm.. I don't know anyone who uses rcs, actually. I know a few who use heartbeat (and so did I when I needed that sort of thing).03:50
StevenKheartbeat has always been in main, according to LP03:50
fabbionepitti: pre-warty.. afair03:50
pittiStevenK: I know, but ATM I don't see what's keeping it there03:50
fabbioneshawarma: heartbeat is a very cheap version of RHCS..03:50
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StevenKpitti: Hysterical raisins from what I can see here.03:51
pittiStevenK: that's not what I mean03:51
pittiStevenK: a main package either needs to be seeded, or a dep/build dep of another main package, or appear in anastacia03:51
StevenKAhhh, right03:51
pittiand neither of those three seems to be the case here03:51
shawarmapitti: It's b-d of evms03:52
StevenKEwwww03:52
zul_fabbione: cheap but effective03:52
pittioh, crud, indeed03:52
fabbionescore...03:52
StevenKPersonally, I think evms needs to be booted out of the archive, but that's just me. :-)03:52
fabbioneStevenK: for how much i love weird block device setups, i agree with you03:53
fabbioneit was the only one i never got to work03:53
shawarmafabbione: Indeed it is. I just thought that was what people used. I also have a bit of empirical data that supports that, but not enough to be statistical valid by any standarad.03:53
StevenKfabbione: I think Keybuk agrees with us, too.03:54
fabbioneStevenK: IME Keybuk is a bit more drastic on block devices :)))))))03:54
=== StevenK grins
fabbioneStevenK: but Mithrandir would probably hang us for proposing that03:54
pittiit seems that it's only needed for evms-ha, which is in universe03:54
Hobbseefabbione: yes, but he's not here :P03:55
StevenKpitti: But the evms source is in main, so it needs to stay.03:55
pittiso, we might be able to drop evms-ha and the heartbeat-dev b-dep from evms03:55
StevenKAhh03:55
StevenKTackle it that way03:55
pittiand thus drop heartbeat and the openimpi stuff03:55
pittiMithrandir: would you terribly miss evms-ha?03:55
=== StevenK sighs at having to munge the Maintainer field for a build1 change
pittiStevenK: don't03:56
fabbionepitti: i doubt he will and if so we can always port it to openais03:56
HobbseeStevenK: you dont have the update-maintainer script?03:56
pittiStevenK: a mere changelog entry is not really worth doing that03:56
StevenKpitti: I thought you had to...03:56
Mithrandirpitti: no03:56
Keybukwhat's wrong with dropping evms from main? :p03:56
Keybukit doesn't work anyway03:57
pittiKeybuk: nothing really from my side, but it's seeded, so someone seems to want it03:57
Hobbseeevening Keybuk!03:57
=== shawarma scurries off for a bit
StevenKOh dear, look what I started.03:57
MithrandirKeybuk: sure it works.03:57
KeybukMithrandir: for you, not for mere mortals03:57
pittiStevenK: main->universe demotion domino :)03:57
StevenKpitti: Yup. :-)03:57
Keybukfor them, it leaves their system largely unbootable right now <g>03:57
Mithrandir*shrug*. :-P03:58
fabbioneKeybuk: for once i can see nothing.. drop it! :P03:58
pittiargh, evms again uses libglib1.203:58
Tonio_pitti: uploading network-manager, and fixing network-manager-gnome, we decided what to do with mbiebl03:58
pittiTonio_: what did you decide?03:58
StevenKpitti: Surely another nail in it's coffin? :-)03:58
=== Hobbsee puts in a word for throwing yada out of main.
pittiStevenK: we had it use 2.0 for some time, but it was not perfect, and upstream doesn't care03:59
fabbionepitti: go for it....03:59
Hobbseeif we're throwing things out of main, that should go...03:59
StevenKHobbsee: Stop the 3 packages in main using it, and it can03:59
Tonio_pitti: move the nm-vpn-properties binary to /usr/lib to make it, makes it ignored by shlibdeps and patch the applet to use it04:00
HobbseeStevenK: by removal, right?  :p04:00
fabbionepitti: evms/heartbeat/*kde* -> universe should so04:00
StevenKHobbsee: Heh04:00
pittifabbione: lol04:00
Tonio_pitti: that avoids maintaing lots of patches, waiting for upstream to perform the split properly04:00
StevenKfabbione: It was nice knowing you.04:00
ion_fabbione: :-D04:00
Hobbseefabbione: haha04:00
pittiTonio_: cool04:00
=== fabbione grins
Tonio_pitti: next step is to fix knetworkmanager configure...04:00
StevenKpitti: Okay, if heartbeat gets demoted, will it automatically try and build itself again?04:01
pittiStevenK: it should; if not, I can poke it manually04:01
Keybuk(I have no problems with evms if someone stops it trying to make devmapper shadows of every system block device, and instead makes it only shadow those block devices it intends to use)04:01
seb128pitti: having no space after the sudo prompt feels weird, did you do it on purpose or that's a bug? ;)04:02
pittiseb128: mainly on purpose; the older sudo prompt didn't have a space either04:02
pittiseb128: and I want to be careful to not break frontends04:02
seb128hum, k, I was probably used to it then04:02
pittiseb128: I tested gksu and kdesu04:02
Tonio_pitti: you'll find network-manager-gnome in NEW in a few minutes04:03
pittiKeybuk, Mithrandir: hm, so you favor demoting evms over dropping the evms-ha package?04:03
pittiTonio_: so you decided for -gnome; nice04:03
Tonio_yup04:03
Keybukpitti: to me, it is clear that we have nobody with sufficient combination of time, inclination and motivation to correct interaction problems with evms04:04
Tonio_pitti: network-manager-pptp ftbfs, but builds locally in a pbuilder chroot.... strange04:04
Keybukwhich suggests that we don't have people maintaining it04:04
pittiKeybuk: that's my thought, even more so with heartbeat (which is why I want to demote this in any case)04:04
Keybukso I think that it is failing main requirements04:04
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Tonio_pitti: forget that, bad builddep, should be waiting for 0.6.504:05
fabbioneand if somebody needs to maintain it, it should really port it to something != heartbeat04:05
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pittihey mbiebl 04:08
StevenKpitti: So who's the lucky person that gets to unseed evms? :-)04:09
pittiStevenK: I'm at it already04:09
=== StevenK nods.
mbieblpitti: hi04:10
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sladenHobbsee: pop over to Edinburgh and you can wave in person04:18
Hobbseesladen: if i wanted to be shot by my uni on my return, sure!04:18
mrsn0can i grab a lift from ireland ? :p04:18
mrsn0if its on the way, of course04:18
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zul_Hobbsee: heh then you can become a professional student if you fail them04:19
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sladen"should"04:19
Hobbseezul_: hahaha.  got a recipe on how to do taht?04:20
Hobbseesladen: yes.  should.04:20
zul_zul_: no but I know several people at my own school who were on that track04:20
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zulgah..04:21
zuls/zul/Hobbsee/04:21
StevenKWoot.04:21
=== Hobbsee is not zul.
=== StevenK watches evms and heartbeat drop like a stone.
=== Hobbsee is Hobbsee.
Hobbseezul: right04:21
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pittihi zul 04:24
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pittizul: btw, do we still need xen-3.0 in gutsy, or is it entirely superseded  by xen-3.1?04:25
ograRiddell, is there a specific kde package for power management ? seems i'm geeting the KDE bugs filed for g-p-m04:27
Riddellogra: kde-guidance-powermanager is the frontend (kde-guidance source)04:27
StevenKogra: kde-guidance, from memory04:27
ograoki04:28
ograand there is no specific backend i guess04:28
ograapart from hal04:28
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StevenKpitti: If you do get the cruft lists generating automagically, can you put a comment at the top with a timestamp?04:32
pittiStevenK: the file dates should be enough, no?04:32
pittiit's just a directory04:32
StevenKPoint04:32
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pygipitti, I'll have to unsubscribe from all the bugs04:36
pygiit's messy :-/04:36
pittipygi: it's just an one-time spam04:37
pittibut you can generally drop emails from apport@piware.de, there won't be much useful stuff04:37
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pittipygi: in any case, it'll get silent in the future anyway, with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CrashReporting04:37
=== pygi hopes so
pittispam wave is over soon -- script is at 4336/487604:39
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pygiwee :P04:39
=== Hobbsee clears out her "discard" folder again
=== StevenK wills LP to mail him an ACCEPTed mail so he can go to bed.
=== Hobbsee has already teleported StevenK's bed out into the rain.
=== pygi has already ate Hobbsee
Hobbseei cant really see *why* you'd want to go to bed, on that basis.04:40
Hobbseepygi: no you havent.  04:41
pygiHobbsee, yup, I did :)04:41
=== Hobbsee explodes pygi
pygiHobbsee, kid, kid ... that doesn't work on me :)04:41
=== Hobbsee makes pygi answer every single one of shirish's questions.
Hobbseeforever.04:41
pygiHobbsee, meh, did you see "new" brasero bug?04:41
Hobbseenope.04:42
pygiwanna see it? xD04:42
Hobbseeon the basis of general health and sanity, i've been ignoring him.04:42
Hobbseeoh, why not.04:42
Hobbseethen i can take sadistic pleasure in rejecting it.04:42
pygihttps://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/brasero/+bug/11972504:43
pygiwe already rejected it04:43
ubotuLaunchpad bug 119725 in brasero "Have pre-defined preference for burning .iso packages" [Wishlist,Rejected]  04:43
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StevenK"where one could associate speeds with mime types"04:44
StevenKTwitch04:44
Hobbseepitti: please giveback swfdec0.4, swfdec-mozilla on all arches04:44
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pygiStevenK, yes ? :p04:45
Hobbseeheh04:45
StevenKI'm so tempted to reject one of Shirish's bugs with "Can you please provide me the name and phone number of your dealer."04:45
HobbseeStevenK: hahahhaa04:45
HobbseeStevenK: well, there are plenty.04:45
pygiStevenK, this channel is being logged =)04:45
HobbseeStevenK: https://bugs.launchpad.net/~shirishag7504:45
ion_:-D04:45
Hobbseepygi: so it's also logged me wanting to call him a fucking moron, in channel.  so?04:45
Hobbseesome people warrant it.04:46
pygiimpressive number of bugs04:46
pygi103 bugs 04:46
StevenKOh ye04:46
StevenKyes04:46
Hobbseethat's non-rejected bugs, too04:46
Hobbseethat's 100 easy rejects04:46
pittiHobbsee: swfdec0.4 given back, -mozilla is in depwait04:46
Hobbseepitti: thanks.  it needs the former04:47
pittiI figured04:47
seb128pitti: oh, you are buildd admin now?04:47
pittiseb128: yes, I am04:47
seb128good to know ;)04:47
pittieasier when doing release management stuff04:47
seb128right04:47
desrthey... not all of this guy's bugs are bogus04:51
StevenKJust 90% of them.04:51
Hobbseedesrt: no.  most of the bogus ones have been gotten rid of as they hit -bugs04:51
pittiwell, he does have good ideas, but they are incredibly hard to implement at times04:51
desrtwhy do some of the bugs in this list show up twice?04:52
pittidesrt: multiple tasks?04:53
desrtpitti; ya.04:53
desrtupstream vs. distro04:53
pygiyay, soon we'll be able to create ISOLINUX bootable cd's with libisofs :)04:53
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ograKeybuk, if i create a device with MAKEDEV and then run /sbin/udevcontrol reload_rules will udev cange te ownership properly to match the rules or will it just silently do nothing ? 05:15
Keybukogra: no05:15
ogra...beacues the device is tere 05:15
ogra*because05:15
Keybukwhy are using MAKEDEV?05:16
ograKeybuk, seems like a merge bug in fuse-utils05:16
ograhttp://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/26135/05:16
ogramakedev is called by debian 05:17
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ograwe call /sbin/udevcontrol reload_rules05:17
ograthey dont handle it through udev at all05:17
Keybuk*shrug*  that's because Debian's udev doesn't reload automatically05:17
Keybukours does05:17
ograoh, then i can drop both ? 05:18
ogracool05:18
KeybukI guess05:18
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Hobbseehiya mvo_!05:21
pygiHobbsee, you eat him!05:22
mvo_hey Hobbsee!05:22
=== Hobbsee eats pygi
pyginot me!05:22
pygihim!05:22
pygimvo_ <-- him!05:22
Hobbseebah05:22
Hobbseebut why?05:22
pygino idea05:22
pygibecause :)05:22
Hobbsee77% [23 alsa-utils 443/1051kB 0%]                                                                                             95.6kB/s 33s05:24
Hobbseecome on...05:24
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shawarmaTonio_: I noticed you didn't add iproute as Depends: to network-manager.. Is that on purpose?05:24
shawarmaTonio_: If it needs it as a build-dep, doesn't it need it at runtime, too?05:24
pyginot always05:25
Hobbseepitti: any idea what liboggflac3 was replaced by?05:27
Hobbseeor what source package it was in?05:27
Hobbseeoh, was in flac05:28
geserHobbsee: libflac-dev05:29
Hobbseeright05:29
Hobbseejust seeing that now05:29
geserliboggflac got merged into libflac05:29
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Hobbseeyeah, i see05:31
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pittimvo_: can you write a MIR for compcomm-plugins-main? (compiz build dep)05:47
mvo_pitti: sure05:47
pittimvo_: and compiz-bcop05:48
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pittiStevenK: I wonder why this openipmi change isn't done in Debian -- it certainly needs to?05:51
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Tonio_shawarma: it ftbfs without iproute as builddep05:54
Tonio_shawarma: it is just a matter of checking path and so on05:54
Tonio_shawarma: no big deal05:54
shawarmaTonio_: It checks for it, but doesn't need it?05:55
Tonio_shawarma: think so05:55
shawarmaTonio_: crack :)05:55
Tonio_shawarma: it was already there before, I just didn't remove it in fact :)05:55
Tonio_shawarma: no time to check all the dependancies on that point, and nothing in the changelog concerning a change on that point, so... :)05:56
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shawarmaTonio_: meh.. I just thought it needed it at runtime and since it's not the kind of thing that would be picked up by shlibdeps..05:58
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Hobbseepitti: if you're going to send mass email like that, via apport, would you mind sending an email a few days prior to all devleopment mailing lists about it, so we can warn upstreams?06:10
Hobbseepitti: otherwise, they tend to want to kill us.  or at least not work with us.06:10
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Hobbseepitti: had you done so, we could have warned the upstreams about it, and they could have put in a filter to discard any apport mail, so that it didnt absolutely flood their bugmail mailing lists.06:15
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Keybuk"Runway 05/23 is not available from 1600 Fri to 0800 Sun 0800 (Tue after PH) due to market."06:42
Keybuk*amused*06:42
Hobbseehaha06:42
TreenaksKeybuk: where's that?06:43
KeybukTreenaks: airfield near me06:45
TreenaksKeybuk: so.. going to the market then? :P06:45
KeybukTreenaks: I thought I might "drop in"06:46
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brycemorning - Hobbsee still about?06:51
Treenaksshe was 10 minutes ago06:52
Hobbseebryce: heya!06:52
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Hobbseebryce: contrary to what upstream says, https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/60288 is not fixed, and still needs that patch.06:55
ubotuLaunchpad bug 60288 in xorg-server "xorg segfaults in libglx.so(__glXleaveServer+0x22)" [High,Confirmed]  06:55
bryceHobbsee: okie06:55
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brycewonder what happened - tepsipakki do you know on this one?06:55
Hobbseebryce: upstream says it's been fixed somewhere else06:56
Hobbseebut it hasnt.06:57
Hobbseeor, there's something else, which that patch fixes06:57
brycehmm, it's a bit ambiguous how this was fixed. lemme look06:57
brycecan you confirm that the patch fixes the problem? 06:58
Hobbseebryce: either way, it's kidna important that this gets fixed, pronto06:58
Hobbseeyep06:58
Hobbseeor at least, it did in feisty06:58
brycewell, it sounds from the bug like if we're still experiencing the problem, it might be due to something else06:59
Hobbseetoday was the first time i'd tried a non-blank screensaver in gutsy - hardlocked X, music kept playing.06:59
bryceso I can pump out the patch, but it may not fix it06:59
Hobbsee(seeing as this happens multiple times a day, when that patch isnt in)06:59
Hobbseethis is true.  it may not fix the problem - it may mask it, and the problem is somewhere else07:00
Hobbseebryce: do you want logs of this?07:00
Hobbseebryce: if you tell me what you want, i can hardlock the machine fairly easily with this07:00
bryceyeah, and if you can post a fresh backtrace, that'd be handy07:00
bryceok cool.  07:01
Hobbseehwo do i get the backtrace - the only option is to shut the machine off?07:01
Hobbseeor at least, used to be able to 07:01
brycemaybe this?07:01
brycegdb /usr/bin/X07:01
brycegdb> run -ignoreABI07:01
bryceno07:02
Hobbseei cant actually get any info, unless i pipe it, i expect07:02
Hobbseeas it locks keyboard, etc.07:02
shawarmaHobbsee: ssh?07:02
Hobbseeshawarma: no other linux machine here07:02
shawarmaHobbsee: putty?07:02
brycehave you checked after reboot but before restarting X, if there is a trace appended to you /var/log/Xorg.0.log?07:02
Hobbseeand i dont have ssh running here, for the aforementioend reason07:02
TreenaksHobbsee: serial console?07:03
HobbseeTreenaks: none07:03
shawarmaHobbsee: Well, you could install openssh-server on your box, putty on another and do the gdb thing through that?07:03
Hobbseebryce: doesnt that show up in Xorg.0.log.old or something?07:03
Hobbseeshawarma: i could...but at 3am, that's a bit nasty07:04
Treenaks3am, sounds like a perfect time for "nasty" to me ;)07:05
bryceHobbsee: yup07:05
Hobbseeright.  will grab them, at least07:05
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bryceHobbsee: it sounds from the bug description that it always results in a backtrace07:06
Hobbseegah.  famous words07:06
Hobbseebryce: no idea, i've never been able to ssh in :)07:06
bryceif there isn't a backtrace, that suggests it's some different bug07:07
bryce(backtrace at the end of your Xorg.0.log file)07:07
Hobbseei never said that there wasnt - just that i couldnt access it07:07
Hobbseeahh.  dont remember, tbh07:07
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TreenaksHobbsee: priorities ;)07:08
HobbseeTreenaks: yeah, well.07:08
shawarmaHobbsee: You're right index finger is out of sync.07:08
shawarmaWhy can't I spell properly today?07:08
Treenaksshawarma: your apostrophes are ;)07:08
Hobbseebryce: i didnt know X servers were so much like horses.  gah.07:08
shawarmaTreenaks: Precisly. I wrote "it's" at least ten times today when it should be "its". What's up with that?07:09
Hobbsee"no, i wont die when there's someone here who's waiting for me to"07:09
Treenaksshawarma: it's annoying ;)07:09
Hobbseeshawarma: likely.07:09
Hobbseeshawarma: too much typing07:09
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shawarmaHobbsee: It appears to be slightly ahead of the other fingers, so a bit tape or a an elastic band might help.07:09
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brycehehe07:10
Treenaksshawarma: hacky hardware solution to a wetware problem07:10
Treenaksshawarma: just sleep a bit, then try again07:10
bryceHobbsee: ok looks like the thing we're looking for in the backtrace is "lXleaveServer"07:10
Hobbseeimbrandon: your machine is dead.  again.07:11
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Hobbseeimbrandon: pleasefix :)07:11
Hobbseebryce: right07:11
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=== Hobbsee --> bed. will look later
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pittiseb128, bdmurray: FYI, there are 196 bugs left which need a retrace; I'll tag them tomorrow07:18
pittiif you want07:18
pittiit would mean more bug spam, of course07:18
seb128196 is not going to make any difference now :p07:19
seb128feel free to tag them ;)07:19
pitti'k07:19
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sjoerd08:06
ion_08:06
slomohm, is the gnome part of the new network-manager already waiting somewhere? :)08:10
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slomoTonio_: will you also upload the gnome frontend of the new network manager?10:48
Tonio_slomo: done10:51
Tonio_slomo: should be waiting in the NEW queue probably10:51
slomoTonio_: thanks :)10:51
Tonio_:)10:51
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tepsipakkibryce: about the patch; maybe a new upstream bug report is needed for the problem Hobbsee is seeing (as alanh requested in the closed bug)11:06
bryceyes that's what I think too11:06
brycetepsipakki: do you think restoring the patch would fix the issue?  I'm thinking about preparing a deb for her to test11:09
tepsipakkiI believe so, yes..11:10
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mikmorgcjwatson_: Hello there12:02
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calcis openjdk going to be packaged for ubuntu?12:11

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