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| Keybuk | rah | 11:41 |
|---|---|---|
| Keybuk | Straw Poll: | 11:42 |
| Keybuk | a) "start on EVENT and EVENT" / "stop on EVENT or EVENT" | 11:42 |
| Keybuk | or | 11:42 |
| Keybuk | b) "from EVENT and EVENT" / "until EVENT or EVENT" | 11:42 |
| shawarma | Keybuk: Well, b) more clearly conveys the fact that upstart manages the job and doesn't just start and stop it. | 12:29 |
| === Keybuk hugs nih_tree_*() | ||
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| Keybuk | shawarma: from/until fits in better with adding "while" as well | 01:23 |
| Keybuk | from starting dbus | 01:23 |
| Keybuk | until stopped dbus | 01:23 |
| Keybuk | while filesystem-writable and network-available | 01:23 |
| Keybuk | (other suggestions from the floor welcome <g>) | 01:24 |
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| === Starting logfile irclogs/upstart.log | ||
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| === Topic for #upstart: Upstart 0.3.8 | http://upstart.ubuntu.com/ | http://upstart.ubuntu.com/wiki/UpstartOnGentoo | ||
| === Topic (#upstart): set by Md at Sun May 6 19:59:46 2007 | ||
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| Trevelyan` | hi. looking at launchpad it seems that init script replacement jobs writting seems to have stalled. is this true or has the work moved elsewhere? | 03:55 |
| Keybuk | Trevelyan`: we're working on changes to Upstart itself to make it possible | 03:56 |
| Trevelyan` | still not happy with how jobs (defs) work? | 03:58 |
| Keybuk | largely, yes | 03:59 |
| Keybuk | the issue has been the implementation of more complex event expressions than just an "OR" list | 03:59 |
| Keybuk | Upstart 0.2 and 0.3 just implement "start on"/"stop on" as a list of events, and any can match | 04:00 |
| Keybuk | that's obviously not flexible enough (and we knew it wouldn't be) | 04:00 |
| Keybuk | the delay has been coming up with a replacement expression language that is as flexible as we want, but with very well defined behaviour | 04:00 |
| Keybuk | I think we're on a very good track for it now, with some really nice features | 04:00 |
| Trevelyan` | cool. I tried initng, but upstart i think has more promise. however until it has jobs that will do parallel job/process starts i wont get much use out of it, ifykwim. | 04:04 |
| Trevelyan` | thank you for explaining that. | 04:04 |
| Keybuk | these things take some amount of time to get right | 04:05 |
| Trevelyan` | no doubt | 04:05 |
| Keybuk | and I'm being deliberately cautious, rolling out changes incrementally and testing them, rather than trying to do it all at once | 04:05 |
| Trevelyan` | sensible, but having said that it surprises me more that upstart went into ubuntu so quick. | 04:06 |
| Keybuk | how so? | 04:06 |
| Keybuk | in order to test, you need a group of users to test it on | 04:07 |
| Trevelyan` | not that it wasn't ready, but how young it was | 04:07 |
| Trevelyan` | that is true | 04:07 |
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| Keybuk | the set of features of 0.2.7 was a superset of those of sysvinit | 04:09 |
| Keybuk | so it was an ideal way to test it, since it could behave like sysvinit while stress-testing the new code in the field | 04:09 |
| Trevelyan` | i gather it went well? since i've not really heard anything that negative about the upstart in ubuntu. | 04:11 |
| Trevelyan` | anyway i look forward to upstart reaching its full potential, and my laptop booting in a couple of seconds =) | 04:13 |
| Keybuk | it's gone well, yes | 04:13 |
| Keybuk | it's taking a little longer to develop than anticipated, but there's no major panics yet :) | 04:14 |
| ion_ | trevelyan: While youre at it, replace the BIOS with something better and faster. :-) | 04:15 |
| Trevelyan` | http://linuxbios.org/index.php/Main_Page | 04:16 |
| ion_ | Yes. :-) | 04:16 |
| Keybuk | meh, BIOS isn't that slow | 04:18 |
| Trevelyan` | although i think that might be a step too far for Dell's tech support to swallow =) | 04:18 |
| Trevelyan` | they only just about accept the fact we run debian | 04:18 |
| Trevelyan` | although since they now ship ubuntu i guess they can't blink at our ubuntu desktops. | 04:20 |
| Trevelyan` | i don't know what dell uses but for their desktops/laptops it fairly fast on what i like to think as cached boots (ie nothings hw or bios wise has changed since last boot) | 04:24 |
| Trevelyan` | on their servers it can take as long as 5 mins before you reach grub =/ | 04:24 |
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| AlexExtreme | Keybuk: what would i need to do if i wanted to add a new command to initctl to change profile? | 06:07 |
| Keybuk | AlexExtreme: it's a little complicated ;) | 06:09 |
| AlexExtreme | heh | 06:09 |
| Keybuk | first you need to modify libupstart | 06:09 |
| Keybuk | add appropriate messages and replies to upstart/message.h, and then modify upstart/message.c so that the arguments in both directions are correctly marshalled | 06:09 |
| Keybuk | the usual format here is a "change profile" message from initctl, along with a generic "current profile" message that can be used as both a reply, and as a subscription event | 06:10 |
| Keybuk | cf. the emit/event series | 06:10 |
| Keybuk | second you need to modify upstart itself | 06:10 |
| AlexExtreme | so that it receives the message and does the appropriate thing with it? | 06:11 |
| Keybuk | this is quite easy, just add a function to init/control.c and hook it into the message table, that handles your marshalled message - it looks like an ordinary function that has some useful effect | 06:11 |
| Keybuk | and lastly you need to modify initctl | 06:11 |
| Keybuk | add an action function that makes the appropriate initctl_send call | 06:11 |
| Keybuk | and add handle functions to deal with the replies | 06:12 |
| AlexExtreme | ok | 06:12 |
| Keybuk | http://upstart.ubuntu.com/wiki/JobEventExpressions | 06:15 |
| Keybuk | ^ for proof-reading and comment | 06:15 |
| AlexExtreme | *clicks* | 06:15 |
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| AlexExtreme | there's a small typo in the design section | 06:17 |
| AlexExtreme | "The expression, or sub-expressions within parentheses) must" | 06:17 |
| AlexExtreme | where's the opening bracket for that closing bracket? ;) | 06:17 |
| Keybuk | heh | 06:18 |
| Keybuk | fix it for me :p | 06:18 |
| AlexExtreme | k :P | 06:18 |
| AlexExtreme | done | 06:19 |
| Keybuk | any comments on the design, rather than my typing? :p | 06:19 |
| AlexExtreme | i haven't finished reading yet ;) | 06:19 |
| AlexExtreme | bah, what is it with the weather in this country? | 06:19 |
| AlexExtreme | this is supposed to be summer! | 06:19 |
| AlexExtreme | gah, thunderstorm overhead, i'll bbiab | 06:20 |
| Keybuk | it's doing similar here | 06:21 |
| wasabi | Keybuk, I don't see our "from" idea there. Has that cahnged? | 06:40 |
| wasabi | oh wait there it is. | 06:40 |
| wasabi | unresolved issues heh | 06:40 |
| Keybuk | :) | 06:41 |
| AlexExtreme | back | 06:54 |
| === AlexExtreme continues reading the spec | ||
| AlexExtreme | Keybuk: IMO the from/until is better because it makes it reading a job sound more like the time period in which the job is run (i hope that makes sense :)) | 07:02 |
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| AlexExtreme | this seems like a "simpler" verson of c-e-c | 07:08 |
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| Keybuk | AlexExtreme: it's intended to be step #1 in replacing c-e-c | 07:36 |
| Keybuk | step #2 is to introduce "States" which are jobs without the jobbish bits. ie just from/until | 07:36 |
| Keybuk | step #3 is to allow expansion of from events in the until expression | 07:37 |
| Keybuk | step # | 07:37 |
| Keybuk | states introduce a "while" stanza | 07:37 |
| Keybuk | and I do think that from/until/while go together nicely | 07:37 |
| AlexExtreme | cool, sounds good | 07:40 |
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| ion_ | Wow. By using the GUI edit mode, i managed to do a huge diff, while adding just a single character. http://upstart.ubuntu.com/wiki/JobEventExpressions?action=diff&rev2=3&rev1=2 | 09:48 |
| ion_ | It changed each `...` to {{{...}}} | 09:48 |
| ion_ | Is it possible to subscribe to each current and future spec at the Upstart wiki? | 09:54 |
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