[12:12] <wasabi> Probably as soon as it is for Debian.
[12:13] <wasabi> I believe people are working on combining it with classpath.
[12:14] <pochu> Debian #398448
[12:14] <ubotu> Debian bug 398448 in wnpp "ITP: openjdk-compiler -- sun java compiler, javac" [Wishlist,Open]  http://bugs.debian.org/398448
[12:14] <calc> wasabi: ok
[12:59] <gnomefreak> crimsun: have you heard anything reguarding flashplugin-nonfree still being broken?
[12:59] <crimsun> gnomefreak: more context, please, in -motu?
[12:59] <gnomefreak> oh thought i was
[01:28] <StevenK> Neat. I haven't seen this build state before.
[01:28] <StevenK> gutsy amd64   Failed to upload
[01:50] <sladen> sabdf1: party @ http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Bristo+Place,+Edinburgh
[01:50] <sabdf1> hey sladen
[01:51] <sabdf1> party @ taipei tomorrow for me
[01:51] <sladen> sabdf1: party @ beijing yesterday for me :)
[02:00] <sladen> iwj and elmo are having a competition to see who can jump down from the pulpit
[02:01] <sladen> *thud* *..thud*
[02:05] <Chipzz> sladen: sounds like a strange kind of party to me ;)
[02:05] <Chipzz> "sounds" being the operative word ;)
[02:06] <Chipzz> (oh, not really a party)
[02:57] <jcole> where can i find a list of available packages differences between ubuntu and debian?
[02:58] <bryce> jcole, I don't know about ubuntu/debian overall, but I maintain a differences list for just the xorg stuff here:  http://people.ubuntu.com/~bryce/Xorg/versions_current.html
[03:02] <jcole> thanks bryce, thats a start
[03:16] <crimsun> jcole: patches.ubuntu.com
[03:20] <mneptok> i had a kitten named Patches. she breathed fire.
[03:20] <mneptok> well, not really. but i tried to make her.
[03:20] <mneptok> i miss you, Patches.
[03:46] <jml> mneptok: haha
[04:42] <pygi> good morning folks
[05:32] <fabbione> morning guys
[05:33] <pygi> hey fabbione 
[05:33] <pygi> it's 5:24, doubt anybody is awake yet :)
[05:33] <fabbione> i am :)
[05:34] <pygi> I know you are :P
[05:34] <pygi> same here =)
[05:34] <pygi> but still ... ;p
[05:35] <StevenK> Of course fabbione is awake, he has a small child.
[05:35] <fabbione> yeah and he is about to wake up
[05:38] <pygi> StevenK, :)
[06:57] <fabbione> so ok..
[06:57] <fabbione> who can help me with something stupid in C
[06:57] <fabbione> i clearly can't see the simplest thingy
[06:57] <fabbione> i have a set of functions that are like..
[06:58] <fabbione> foo(int fd, void *buf, int bufsize)
[06:58] <fabbione> they call each other in sequence
[06:58] <fabbione> if bufsize is < 0 then the last function needs to allocate the buf
[06:58] <fabbione> how can i easily propagate back the new value of buf up in the chain?
[06:59] <fabbione> clearly just doing a buf=malloc(buf); is not enough
[07:01] <xhaker> fabbione, i've run into that but workaround it by making the thing global
[07:01] <fabbione> global is not a solution
[07:01] <xhaker> i'd like to know a solution to this thingie too :D
[07:02] <fabbione> no really, you can't make this stuff global at all
[07:02] <fabbione> or the application will boom
[07:02] <fabbione> i mean.. there is a way for me to do it but i don't really like it
[07:02] <xhaker> i didn't too, but it was a college CG work.. they don't care
[07:03] <xhaker> well, i remember messing with realloc()
[07:11] <Hobbsee> oh darn, pygi isnt here.
[07:14] <desrt> does anyone know if writing a double precision float on an x86 is atomic?
[08:07] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: please don't die
[08:08] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: awww, why not?
[08:19] <shawarma> fabbione: Can you change the function's prototype?
[08:19] <shawarma> Goodmorning to all, by the way.
[08:21] <shawarma> fabbione: ..or are they part of a public API or something?
[08:23] <lifeless> fabbione: if you can change the prototype, making it void **buf and int *bufsize would do
[08:23] <fabbione> yes i can change them
[08:23] <shawarma> fabbione: Ok, what lifeless said then. :)
[08:23] <fabbione> thanks guys
[08:24] <shawarma> np, dude.
[08:45] <fabbione> there.. working finally
[08:47] <shawarma> \o/
[09:31] <pitti> Good morning
[09:31] <fabbione> hey pitti
[09:32] <geser> morning pitti
[09:32] <shawarma> Good morning, pitti.
[09:33] <Hobbsee> morning pitti
[09:33] <Hobbsee> !
[09:34] <pitti> Hobbsee: *big hug*
[09:36] <Hobbsee> :D
[09:38] <pitti> mvo_: hmm, why doesn't upgrade-manager support sth. like 'apt-get dist-upgrade' for gutsy?
[09:38] <pitti> mvo_: it currently tells me that it cannot install all updates, and when I click on 'system upgrade' it crashes 
[09:38] <Treenaks> pitti: network-manager-gnome is broken anyway
[09:38] <pitti> Treenaks: *upgrade*, not network :)
[09:39] <Treenaks> pitti: I know, but that's the thing upgrade-manager is breaking on, I think
[09:39] <Hobbsee> pitti: you need the network for upgrading...
[09:39] <pitti> hi mvo
[09:39] <Treenaks> it is for me
[09:39] <mvo> hey pitti
[09:39] <pitti> a normal 'apt-get dist-upgrade' works just fine
[09:39] <pitti> mvo: hmm, why doesn't upgrade-manager support sth. like 'apt-get dist-upgrade' for gutsy?
[09:39] <Treenaks> pitti: but deinstalls network-manager-gnome :)
[09:39] <pitti> mvo: it currently tells me that it cannot install all updates, and when I click on 'system upgrade' it crashes 
[09:39] <pitti> Treenaks: sure
[09:40] <mvo> pitti: that was a bug,  crash should be fixed with the new upload from yesterday
[09:40] <pitti> ah, cool
[10:11] <pitti> zakame: did you already find out about the xmms2 FTBFS on amd64?
[10:13] <zakame> pitti: yes, it on the debian BTS, upstream's still figuring it out
[10:13] <pitti> zakame: ah, good
[10:14] <zakame> http://bugs.debian.org/426382
[10:15] <zakame> oh, there's a new version now, will check that
[10:15] <pitti> zakame: oh, fixed now
[10:16] <zakame> yeah
[10:16] <pitti> zakame: ah, usual lack of -fPIC :)
[10:16] <pitti> zakame: I'll reject the current binaries now, to avoid inconsistencies
[10:16] <zakame> ok, will remerge
[10:16] <pitti> zakame: (from the binary NEW queue)
[10:16] <pitti> zakame: thanks
[10:16] <zakame> pitti: thanks for the heads-up :D
[10:17] <dholbach> good morning
[10:17] <zakame> good day dholbach :)
[10:18] <dholbach> hey zakame
[10:23] <bryce> heya zakame, small world :-)
[10:26] <zakame> bryce!!! yeah it is :D
[10:48] <Mithrandir> why does ekiga insist on running the setup wizard every so often?
[10:48] <Treenaks> because it's broken?
[10:49] <Hobbsee> evening Mithrandir 
[10:52] <Tonio_> hi
[10:52] <Tonio_> pitti: ping ?
[10:52] <pitti> hi Tonio_ 
[10:53] <Tonio_> pitti: hi ;)
[10:53] <pitti> hey StevenK 
[10:53] <Tonio_> pitti: I noticed knetworkmanager ftbfs for ia64, I know the reason but I don't have the clue for this, I may require some help to get it to work
[10:54] <StevenK> pitti: Can you re-run your cruft checker? It should have most of the libsnmp9 ones sorted out.
[10:54] <pitti> StevenK: sure, doing now
[10:55] <Tonio_> pitti: to make it simple, there is a problem with libnl on ubuntu concerning the typedefs.
[10:56] <StevenK> pitti: I also saw a build state I haven't seen before for heartbeat. " gutsy amd64   Failed to upload"
[10:56] <XAngelusX> hi to everyone
[10:56] <pitti> StevenK: oh, that again *sigh*
[10:56] <pitti> StevenK: I'll have a look
[10:56] <Tonio_> pitti: the solution is to include the linux types.h in the code, which results a second error, missing types __64
[10:56] <pitti> Tonio_: just a second
[10:57] <Tonio_> sure :)
[10:58] <StevenK> pitti: I have another issue, but I'll wait until you're ready.
[10:59] <mvo> pitti: MIR reports for compcomm-plugins-main and compiz-bcop ready
[11:04] <pitti> StevenK: heartbeat amd64 poked, it's accepted now
[11:04] <StevenK> pitti: Thanks!
[11:05] <StevenK> pitti: My other issue was I upload cpqarray, but I didn't get a mail about it, and it didn't turn up in the accepted queue.
[11:05] <pitti> StevenK: great, you cleaned libsnmp9 for main; now it's only two handful of universe
[11:05] <pitti> http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/tmp/cruft/ updates
[11:05] <pitti> updated
[11:06] <StevenK> I only spent 2 hours at $WORK doing ten uploads. Sssshh! :-P
[11:07] <StevenK> Most of the remaining will be cleaned up when the binaries for all the uploads I did publish.
[11:07] <StevenK> cpqarrayd and wmnd-snmp look to be the odd ones out.
[11:07] <pitti> 06:20:58 DEBUG   Not permitted to upload to the RELEASE pocket in a release in the 'CURRENT' state.
[11:07] <StevenK> Oh crap.
[11:07] <pitti> You uploaded to 'feisty' :)
[11:08] <StevenK> It's because I'm a bozo, isn't it.
[11:08] <StevenK> Yes...
[11:08] <pitti> I cannot find wmnd-snmp; is it a typo?
[11:08] <StevenK> I haven't uploaded that one, it appears in your list.
[11:08] <pitti> ah, I see
[11:09] <StevenK> pitti: Oh yes, all but one of the updates actually makes use of libsnmp9.
[11:10] <pitti> ah, so no --as-needed magic
[11:10] <StevenK> Right.
[11:10] <pitti> Tonio_: ok, back to you
[11:11] <Tonio_> pitti: oki ;)
[11:11] <StevenK> pitti: Thanks for your help.
[11:11] <pitti> btw, any idea why network-manager-gnome is uninstallable ATM?
[11:11] <pitti> StevenK: you're welcome; thanks for your's :)
[11:11] <Tonio_> pitti: so here is the hack to make knetworkmanager to build :
[11:11] <StevenK> pitti: :-)
[11:11] <Tonio_> pitti: http://paste.tonio.homelinux.org/104
[11:11] <Tonio_> pitti: I know that really ugly, but there is no other solution, except that cause, logically, a ftbfs on ia64
[11:12] <Tonio_> pitti: wanted to know if you had another option in mind in fact...
[11:12] <pitti> Tonio_: TBH, I think that's the wrong way to solve this
[11:12] <Tonio_> pitti: of course it is :) but how to do better ?
[11:12] <pitti> Tonio_: the point is, userspace should not use the __foo types, they are defined in the kernel and should only be used there
[11:13] <pitti> Tonio_: the official way for userspace is to use uint64_t, int32_t etc.
[11:13] <Tonio_> pitti: so the solution is to fix the libnl, right ?
[11:13] <pitti> Tonio_: I guess so; a big s/__uint64/uint64_t/g, and sending it to upstream
[11:14] <pitti> erm, u_unt64_t
[11:14] <pitti> erk
[11:14] <pitti> u_int64_t
[11:14] <pitti> Tonio_: it's in sys/types.h
[11:14] <StevenK> Oh, grah. kolab-cyrus-imapd failed to build due to ghostscript SEGVing on ia64.
[11:16] <pitti> Tonio_: there were similar things in hal, and it caused trouble; I sent a similar and huge patch upstream, and they took it
[11:16] <pitti> Tonio_: (maybe better to send them a set of sed commands than a 300 kB patch :) )
[11:16] <Tonio_> pitti: that's a kernel patch right ?
[11:16] <Tonio_> oups sorry I missunderstood you
[11:16] <pitti> Tonio_: what, what, kernel patch?
[11:16] <Tonio_> pitti: so we have to sed the libnl code
[11:17] <Tonio_> pitti: yeah sorry I missunderstood the "<pitti> Tonio_: it's in sys/types.h" ;)
[11:17] <Tonio_> pitti: I'm not a coder, so....
[11:17] <Tonio_> pitti: okay so I'll let the workarround for the moment, and try to get the libnl fixed
[11:18] <Tonio_> pitti: thanks for the teaching :)
[11:18] <pitti> Tonio_: just /usr/include/sys/types.h, should be a standard C header
[11:18] <pitti> Tonio_: you're welcome
[11:19] <pitti> Tonio_: ok, standard POSIX, not standard C, but you get the idea
[11:19] <Tonio_> pitti: yup, got it
[11:20] <pitti> Tonio_: you are sure that the workaround works? and why not just fix it properly right from the start?
[11:21] <Tonio_> pitti: works as long as it builds :)
[11:21] <Tonio_> pitti: the workarround works on several architectures, just fails on ia64
[11:21] <pitti> Tonio_: heh, true :)
[11:22] <pitti> asac: oh, do you need more info from me for bug 121027?
[11:22] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 121027 in gnash "gnash crashed with SIGSEGV in std::_Rb_tree<boost::intrusive_ptr<gnash::as_object>, boost::intrusive_ptr<gnash::as_object>, std::_Identity<boost::intrusive_ptr<gnash::as_object> >, std::less<boost::intrusive_ptr<gnash::as_object> >, std::allocator<boost::intrusive_ptr<gnash::as_object> > >::erase()" [Undecided,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/121027
[11:22] <pitti> erk, what a topic; yay C++ templates
[11:23] <Tonio_> I also have a ftbfs for the pptp plugin, I don't understand the cause of this since it builds like a charm in a chroot or pbuilder chroot here...
[11:23] <asac> pitti: no we have a tester from my team now :)
[11:24] <pitti> Tonio_: looking
[11:24] <Tonio_> pitti: looks like a problem with lb, but I can't figure out the difference between the buildd and my chroot...
[11:24] <pitti> Tonio_: ah, forgot to build something with -fPIC
[11:25] <pitti> Tonio_: you actually tested it in an amd64 chroot?
[11:26] <Tonio_> pitti: no, just an i386 one, but it is a global ftbfs
[11:26] <Tonio_> pitti: hum right, the latest upload only fails on amd64, right ;)
[11:26] <pitti> Tonio_: hm? it only failed on amd64
[11:26] <Tonio_> pitti: I missed that one, I was talking about n-1 upload
[12:14] <EliasAmaral> why there is so few 32bits libraries on amd64 port? i can find only these: http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin//search_packages.pl?version=feisty&subword=1&exact=&arch=any&releases=all&case=insensitive&keywords=32-lib&searchon=names and http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin//search_packages.pl?version=feisty&subword=1&exact=&arch=any&releases=all&case=insensitive&keywords=lib32&searchon=names
[12:14] <Nafallo> EliasAmaral: ia32-libs
[12:15] <EliasAmaral> ia32-libs contains /all/ libraries?
[12:15] <EliasAmaral> there are a huge number of libsomething on repos
[12:15] <pitti> EliasAmaral: only the most imoprtant ones to run popular apps
[12:17] <EliasAmaral> I was using amd64 edgy, but the lack of libraries (also, the lack of support for flash/etc) made me running a dchroot, but in the end it was a very poor idea and i am using i386 feisty now
[12:17] <Hobbsee> er, the arts maintainer is?  
[12:18] <pitti> EliasAmaral: we can put more stuff into ia32-libs if desired; right now it's working with e. g. vmware, skype, some games, etc.
[12:18] <EliasAmaral> i think amd64 should have a good support for running 32bits apps. i was expecting finding every lib compiled twice
[12:18] <EliasAmaral> hmmm
[12:18] <Hobbsee> oh wait, found it
[12:18] <pitti> EliasAmaral: but that's hardly necessary?
[12:19] <pitti> EliasAmaral: the prime usage of ia32-libs is to run commercial apps which are only available for 32 bit
[12:19] <EliasAmaral> i don't know about necessary, but it sounds like 'the right thing'
[12:19] <pitti> EliasAmaral: but they usually have a relatively limited set of dependencies, to run on a decent variation of distros
[12:19] <EliasAmaral> hmmmmmm
[12:19] <pitti> EliasAmaral: if you need the entire range of i386 libs on amd64, then you are probably better off installing the i386 arch in the first place IMHO
[12:20] <EliasAmaral> what i though about a 64bits system was it would run any 32bits or 64bits app. so i could in theory install 32bits firefox from i386's .deb
[12:21] <pitti> EliasAmaral: right, but support for that isn't that perfect yet; you need different directories for the libraries, etc.
[12:21] <pitti> EliasAmaral: i. e. you cannot install the 32 and 64 bit variant of e. g. libgtk2.0 if they don't have different paths
[12:22] <EliasAmaral> pitti, do you know if it is included in any blueprint, or planned for any future release? i would see this as a nice technical advantage
[12:22] <EliasAmaral> pitti, hmmm, yes, 32bits packages installs only in /usr/lib ..
[12:22] <pitti> EliasAmaral: I don't, sorry; doko might know
[12:23] <Mithrandir> EliasAmaral: it's planned for an undefined future release, but it's a hard problem.
[12:23] <Nafallo> wasn't multiarch kind of dropped because the goal is to get everyone running x86_64 and everything working on that arch? :-)
[12:23] <EliasAmaral> maybe moving i386 /usr/lib to /usr/lib32 and making /usr/lib a symlink to /usr/lib32 would be a good step
[12:24] <shawarma> Nafallo: sssh.. That's the *secret* goal. :)
[12:25] <Nafallo> shawarma: I read it on ubuntu-devel@ ;-)
[12:25] <Mithrandir> Nafallo: you read it on the intarweb so it must be true.
[12:25] <doko> EliasAmaral: no, the good step would be to use lib64 for 64bit libs
[12:25] <Nafallo> Mithrandir: :-)
[12:25] <Mithrandir> hi doko
[12:27] <EliasAmaral> doko, but if i actually wanted to install a i386 package in a amd64 box, the /usr/lib in amd64 system would be full of.. 32bits-only libs, what doesn't make much sense
[12:27] <doko> EliasAmaral: sure, if you want to do that, you would have to do something like ia32-libs, ia32-libs-kde, ia32-libs-gtk
[12:28] <Keybuk> I thought we were moving i386 /usr/lib to /usr/lib/i484-linux-gnu
[12:28] <Keybuk> and amd64 /usr/lib to /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu
[12:29] <EliasAmaral> i am trying to figure out if this is a joke or not
[12:29] <EliasAmaral> ubuntu isn't meant to be linux-specific? =D
[12:30] <pitti> EliasAmaral: well, some guys ported Debian to a BSD kernel, or to Hurd
[12:30] <Keybuk> it'd be pretty hard to truly port to non-Linux
[12:30] <EliasAmaral> doko, the problem is, each package depends upon specifics libraries, so if i want to install an arbitrary i386 package, i would have to install arbitrary i386 libs, too. and, from i386 repos
[12:30] <Keybuk> some of our core bits are Linux only
[12:31] <Mithrandir> EliasAmaral: I suggest you read the papers in http://multiarch.alioth.debian.org/, they explain the problem and a possible solution.
[12:31] <EliasAmaral> reading:)
[12:32] <doko> EliasAmaral: the only way that works now is the ia32-libs* approach.
[12:32] <Nafallo> gaah. opening Mithrandirs key with seahorse makes my computer nearly freeze :-P
[12:33] <Mithrandir> : tfheen@thosu ~ > gpg --list-sigs 817a996a | wc -l
[12:33] <Mithrandir> 1011
[12:33] <Mithrandir> :-P
[12:33] <shawarma> Oh, dear.
[12:33] <shawarma> I'm at 48. :)
[12:33] <pitti> 804 here
[12:33] <Mithrandir> five UIDs though
[12:34] <Nafallo> hehe. I think seahorse fetches all of them for trusted keys ;-)
[12:34] <Mithrandir> I should revoke one of them, since it no longer works.
[12:34] <Nafallo> yay for automation! :-)
[12:38] <Mithrandir> there, revoked.
[12:45] <fabbione> gpg --list-sigs 44779E18 | wc -l
[12:45] <fabbione> 1740
[12:45] <fabbione> tsk :P
[12:46] <Fujitsu> Wow.
[12:46] <EliasAmaral> Mithrandir, liked that paper, "Packages would simply depend on the appropriate string for their architecture, so an i386 package can be installed on either system." is exactly what I think about being multi-arch. but this is from dapper's release time..
[12:47] <fabbione> yeah and it's ages that i don't go to a keysign party
[12:48] <Hobbsee> dammit. message moderated, as i used the wrong email
[12:49] <Hobbsee> although, i would have expected an @ubuntu.com address to automatically work - it's listed on LP
[12:49] <Hobbsee> says i'm not subscribed to the list
[12:56] <StevenK> pitti: Last two packages for the libsnmp9 transition uploaded.
[12:56] <pitti> rock
[12:56] <bhale> yay snmp
[12:56] <StevenK> pitti: Any other transition you want me to knock over? :-)
[12:57] <pitti> StevenK: oh, there are plenty; the libcurl3 mess is awkward
[12:57] <StevenK> pitti: I had plans to deal with ibatlas-cpp-0.6-0c2a, which is waiting on the Debian maintainer.
[12:57] <StevenK> libatlas-cpp-0.6-0c2a, that is.
[12:57] <geser> pitti: isn't Debian moving back from libcurl4 to libcurl3?
[12:57] <pitti> StevenK: oh, as long as it'll get fixed in Debian soon and we can just sync it, we don't need to worry about it so much
[12:58] <pitti> geser: erk? I don't know
[12:58] <geser> pitti: http://lists.debian.org/debian-release/2007/06/msg00106.html
[12:58] <StevenK> pitti: Yeah, the Debian maintainer of libatlas-cpp-0.6-1 is the maintainer of the 3 packages listed.
[12:59] <StevenK> pitti: Yay... libcurl3 lists heartbeat as well. :-)
[12:59] <pitti> StevenK: hm, so let's find out what happens with curl in Debian and do one of the smaller ones
[01:00] <StevenK> pitti: Aye, okay
[01:00] <pitti> StevenK: siretart already wanted to care about the ffmpeg stuff
[01:00] <pitti> StevenK: and gpocentek about the libgoffice, the rest is fair game AFAICS
[01:00] <StevenK> pitti: I can deal with the 3 or so for libiw28, if you like.
[01:00] <pitti> StevenK: that would be nice
[01:01] <StevenK> Although, preparing ten uploads at the same time was kind of cool.
[01:01] <geser> StevenK: if you looking for a transition: libboost-*1.33.1 -> libboost-*1.34.0
[01:01] <StevenK> Which isn't listed by pitti's cruft.
[01:01] <Nafallo> oh! boost will make gnash installable? :-)
[01:02] <pitti> hm, I cannot find any 1.33 boost packages in the archive
[01:02] <StevenK> pitti: Oh, and you were right, even though the packages Build-Depend on libsnmp9-dev, the buildds still deal and install libsnmp-dev.
[01:03] <pitti> StevenK: ah, indeed, apt-cache unmet depends on some 1.33 stuff
[01:03] <StevenK> Ah, unmetdeps.
[01:03] <geser> the debs are gone, but not the depends
[01:03] <Nafallo> lovely :-)
[01:03] <pitti> StevenK: right, because the package doesn't exist any more, but libsnmp-dev provides: it
[01:04] <StevenK> pitti: Yeah, and I should have realised that before I changed openipmi ...
[01:06] <StevenK> Ugh. boost has a lot.
[01:07] <StevenK> Actually, I need to fix one more for libsnmp
[01:33] <Viper550> hi
[01:41] <Viper550> Anyone here?
[01:45] <EtienneG> hey guys
[01:45] <EtienneG> regarding https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreeSoftwareDrivers
[01:45] <Nafallo> ho EtienneG 
[01:45] <EtienneG> should the discussion also include peripheral (such as printers) ?
[01:45] <Nafallo> s/o/i/
[01:45] <EtienneG> ho, hi, it's all fine Nafallo !
[01:45] <Nafallo> :-)
[01:46] <EtienneG> specifically, I was thinking that HP should get a special mention for the work they do getting good support for their printers and MFP
[01:46] <EtienneG> ie, HPLIP
[01:46] <Nafallo> I would agree with that :-)
[01:47] <Nafallo> dunno who makes that decision though.
[01:47] <EtienneG> I'm just throwing the idea
[01:47] <Nafallo> +1 from me then ;-)
[01:48] <Viper550> You've been wanting ideas for a better recovery mode?
[01:58] <Hobbsee> Viper550: probably on the mailing list?
[01:59] <Viper550> Well, anyway, I'm going to embark on a mission that may make system building with Linux a bit less painful if your end-user messes everything up
[02:01] <Hobbsee> cool.  not my decision, but cool
[02:01] <seb128> Viper550: you might want to look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FriendlyRecovery
[02:03] <Viper550> seb128: Actually, that's repair tools for the OS. I'm talking about those recovery partitions all those fancy Windows computers come with nowadays, just press a key on bootup, click a few buttons, wait a half-hour, and whammo! Fresh reinstalled system as it was out of the box!
[02:34] <StevenK> pitti: Got a tick?
[02:35] <pitti> StevenK: about to leave to lunch, but just leave your question, I'll read backscroll :)
[02:35] <StevenK> pitti: Right. :-)
[02:36] <StevenK> pitti: One of the packages listed as needing libsnmp love is lustre. Lustre is kernel module package that has been pulled from Debian, and it Build-Depends on 2.6.18, since the build system looks for a kernel at build time. I'm just wondering what we should do.
[02:37] <pitti> erk
[02:37] <shawarma> StevenK: Why not update it to 2.6.22?
[02:37] <StevenK> Because I'm not a fan of patching their code to work against 2.6.22
[02:37] <pitti> shawarma: that's not something we should do, unless someone is actually interested in that apckage
[02:37] <StevenK> And I'm so not.
[02:37] <pitti> StevenK: my recommendation so far: ignore it
[02:38] <shawarma> pitti: Well..
[02:38] <shawarma> StevenK: What does it need it for?
[02:38] <pitti> StevenK: I can kill the libsnmp9 package and just leave this uninstallable
[02:38] <shawarma> StevenK: Any idea t all?
[02:38] <Hobbsee> damn.  no bulletproofX for kubuntu.
[02:38] <StevenK> pitti: Sounds fine to me.
[02:38] <StevenK> shawarma: Hum?
[02:39] <StevenK> pitti: I *think* that's everything for libsnmp9.
[02:39] <Nafallo> ooh. gnash IS installable :-)
[02:39] <shawarma> StevenK: What does it need the kernel source for?
[02:40] <shawarma> StevenK: Ah.. "kernel module package".
[02:41] <shawarma> StevenK: I missed that :)
[02:41] <StevenK> shawarma: :-)
[02:42] <StevenK> shawarma: Consider taking a reading comphresion class? :-P
[02:42] <hunger> When will the new networkmanager finally be installable?
[02:42] <shawarma> StevenK: :(
[02:43] <Nafallo> when pitti NEW'd nm-gnome? ;-)
[02:43] <pitti> Nafallo: when Tonio_ actually uploads it :)
[02:43] <Nafallo> hehe. oki :-)
[02:44] <pitti> oh, there it is
[02:44] <Nafallo> pitti: lunch? :-P
[02:44] <pitti> it's called -applet now
[02:44] <pitti> Nafallo: yeah, yeah, I promised my gf 15 minutes ago
[02:44] <pitti> so, LUNCH!
[02:45] <hunger> Hmmm... maybe ubuntu-desktop needs an update then to work with the new name?
[02:47] <Nafallo> :-)
[02:49] <Tonio_> pitti: it should be in the NEW queue since yesterday :)
[02:50] <Tonio_> pitti: didi as you said, naming the package -gnome
[02:50] <Nafallo> Tonio_: source -applet and binary -gnome? ;-)
[02:51] <Tonio_> Nafallo: yes
[02:51] <Nafallo> hehe. that might confuse a bit. I like it! :-)
[02:51] <Tonio_> Nafallo: just wait a bit for someone to review and accept the package in NEW
[02:52] <Nafallo> Tonio_: I would wait longer than that. I want to see how many bugreports it gets ;-)
[02:52] <Tonio_> Nafallo: lol
[02:53] <Tonio_> Nafallo: I don't use the gnome applet myself, but the new knetworkmanager works great
[02:53] <Tonio_> Nafallo: nm-applet shouldn't be that buggy
[02:54] <Nafallo> :-P
[02:55] <seb128> is the old applet broken?
[02:55] <Tonio_> seb128: when you tested, it worked with n-m 0.6.5
[02:55] <seb128> right
[02:55] <seb128> that's why I'm asking if it's broken for other people
[02:57] <hunger> seb128: aptitude claims that network-manager-gnome depends ot network-manager = 0.6.4-6ubuntu7, so somebody must update the required version string...
[02:58] <seb128> Tonio_: 
[02:58] <seb128> src/wso-leap.c: * (C) Copyright 2006 Thiago Jung Bauermann <thiago.bauermann@gmail.com>
[02:58] <seb128> src/menu-items.c: * (C) Copyright 1999, 2000 Eazel, Inc.
[02:58] <seb128> src/eggtrayicon.c: * Copyright (C) 2002 Anders Carlsson <andersca@gnu.org>
[02:59] <seb128> src/wso-wpa-eap.c: * (C) Copyright 2006 Novell, Inc.
[02:59] <seb128> Tonio_: could you list those to debian/copyright?
[03:00] <seb128> Tonio_: eggtrayicon.c is under LGPL
[03:00] <seb128> could you also mention it to debian/copyright and make the package ship a COPYING.LIB with the LGPL text?
[03:01] <seb128> pitti: ^ I looked at nm-applet, don't accept it for now
[03:01] <Tonio_> seb128: okay, true that I didn't spend much time on the licencing part.... too boring :)
[03:01] <Tonio_> let's go
[03:02] <seb128> Tonio_: well, that's the most important part to get it accepted in the archive :p
[03:02] <Tonio_> seb128: hehe, I know, but I didn't have that much time to make all the packages in one day ;)
[03:02] <seb128> you had no pressure to upload
[03:03] <seb128> take the time you need ;)
[03:03] <Tonio_> seb128: the pressure I had is that I don't have internet at home :)
[03:04] <Tonio_> thanks to france telecom :'(
[03:05] <seb128> Tonio_: they don't want to take your money? ;)
[03:06] <Tonio_> seb128: why shipping a copying.lib ? isn't juste adding the 4 paragraphs with the path to the lgpl enought ?
[03:06] <seb128> Tonio_: I've opened http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=449111 upstream
[03:06] <ubotu> Gnome bug 449111 in nm-applet "tarball sould ship the LGPL license text" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[03:06] <Tonio_> seb128: I do pay but I'm disconnected for 2 month now
[03:06] <seb128> Tonio_: no, the source should have a copy of the license
[03:06] <Tonio_> just because someone unplugued me by error
[03:06] <seb128> not cool
[03:07] <Nafallo> Tonio_: I wouldn't pay for a service I don't have. why do you? :-)
[03:08] <Tonio_> Nafallo: because I'll be reimboursed once the problem ends
[03:09] <Nafallo> ah :-)
[03:13] <ogra> seb128, the volume icon not reflecting the actual volume is a known bug i assume ?
[03:14] <seb128> ogra: yes
[03:14] <ogra> good 
[03:17] <siretart> cprov: I figured out what happened to the PPA accepted mails: They are lacking the 'regular' X- Headers for upload notifications, so they ended up in my 'other lp messages' mailbox
[03:19] <ion_> The new compiz package seems to use ccp instead of gconf. Is someone going to upload a config tool using it soon, or am i just being blind? :-)
[03:20] <seb128> ion_: cpp uses gconf
[03:20] <seb128> ccp
[03:21] <seb128> ion_: a config tool using what?
[03:22] <mvo__> ion_: compizconfig-setup-manager (ccsm) is uploaded, it may wait in NEW currently
[03:22] <ion_> seb128: Hm. I didnt really study what this ccp thing is, but i tried to do some changes using gconf and they didnt seem to apply, and i also noticed a new directory ~/.compizconfig. I expected its just using plain config files instead of gconf now.
[03:23] <ion_> mvo: Alright, thanks.
[03:23] <seb128> mvo: ccp should use gconf no?
[03:23] <mvo> ion_: do you run gnome? or something else?
[03:23] <mvo> seb128: yes
[03:23] <ion_> mvo: Xfce
[03:23] <mvo> ion_: what is in .compizconfig/config
[03:23] <mvo> ion_: aha, ok. then it will default to .ini files
[03:24] <shawarma> ogra: Do you tweak vm.swappiness on your edubuntu clients?
[03:24] <ion_> mvo: The lines [general] , profile = , 
[03:24] <seb128> ion_: you need to use GNOME ;)
[03:24] <ogra> shawarma, nope
[03:24] <mvo> ion_: is gconf always available under xfce?
[03:24] <ion_> mvo: And Default.ini is empty.
[03:24] <seb128> ion_: it detects the desktop and enable gconf if you use GNOME
[03:24] <ogra> shawarma, we try to tweak as less as possible
[03:24] <shawarma> ogra: I see. I just thought about it after you said you swap over the network. It might be worth it to try lowering the swappiness.
[03:25] <ogra> shawarma, yep, ggod point, i'll look into it ... 
[03:25] <shawarma> ogra: Cool.
[03:25] <ion_> mvo: xfce4-session seems to depend on libgconf2-4
[03:25] <ion_> seb128: I definitely would use Gnome if my computer had more memory.
[03:26] <mvo> ion_: I guess that could be fixed, is there a environment var that can be used to uniq identify a runing xfce session?
[03:27] <ion_> mvo: env | grep -i xf yields GDMSESSION=xfce4 and DESKTOP_SESSION=xfce4. I havent checked what defines DESKTOP_SESSION (e.g. does it exist if one uses startx instead of gdm).
[03:32] <shawarma> mvo: I think the xfce session manager sets SESSION_MANAGER to something sensible.
[03:33] <ion_> SESSION_MANAGER=local/luotain:/tmp/.ICE-unix/17772
[03:41] <pitti> seb128: right, so if the current n-m-applet upload is bad, we should reject it
[03:42] <Tonio_> seb128: I'm just fixing the licencing part
[03:43] <Tonio_> pitti, seb128: reuploading... I hope it's okay now
[04:02] <ubotu> Debian bug 414866 in apt-mirror "apt-mirror: cleans out all files with tilde (~) in file name" [Normal,Fixed]  http://bugs.debian.org/414866
[04:02] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 112552 in apt-mirror "Packages containing a tilde are deleted by clean.sh" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/112552
[04:08] <Keybuk> the author of Planet needs to die in a raging green chemical fire
[04:09] <hunger> How about adding ZFS support?
[04:09] <evand> Keybuk: Aren't you the author of Planet?
[04:10] <Keybuk> evand: damn
[04:10] <evand> hah
[04:10] <evand> yeah, really.  What a terrible piece of software.
[04:11] <Keybuk> it might be typo's fault, in which case I can burn thom
[04:11] <Keybuk> (not because he wrote it, but because he suggested it <g>)
[04:11] <imbrandon> popey, i have a fix for that i'll upload it today
[04:11] <popey> yay
[04:11] <popey> thanks imbrandon 
[04:12] <shawarma> _ 
[04:12] <shawarma> what the..
[04:13] <shawarma> Ok, this is odd.
[04:13] <Keybuk> evand: hmm, so the funny thing is, right; my feed looks right
[04:13] <Keybuk> and the ids are right
[04:13] <StevenK> thom: Heh
[04:13] <Keybuk> so Planet shouldn't've done that
[04:13] <Keybuk> unless jdub broke it since I stopped maintaining it, of course <g>
[04:14] <thom> also, 'henrink'?
[04:14] <evand> hrm
[04:14] <Keybuk> it's written to ignore dates and stuff from feeds (which are right anyway)
[04:15] <Keybuk> and was written to cope with people changing feed urls
[04:15] <shawarma> If I plug in my ipod really slowly, it starts charging and all that, so there's definitely a connection, but there's nothing in dmesg and it doesn't try to mount it or anything. If I just plug it in at regular speed, it's detected, and mounted, etc... wtf?
[04:15] <Keybuk> so I figure someone broke it
[04:15] <thom> Keybuk: it's never really coped with feed urls changing though, IME
[04:17] <shawarma> Yup. It's reproducible.
[04:18] <shawarma> That's about a 4.6 on my wtf-o-meter.
[04:18] <Keybuk> thom: the worst it used to do was assume it was a new blog, and only take the top two posts
[04:18] <Keybuk> even that bit seems to be broken
[04:18] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 36655 in kdenetwork "pppd dies on connection" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/36655
[04:19] <ion_> shawarma: Perhaps something detects i was connected to a host / a peripheral was connected to me; it gives/drains power but doesnt talk USB; ill just ignore it. :-)
[04:20] <davmor2> Hi devs.  Network manager just went away after an update is there a fix on the way or I can type in?
[04:21] <pitti> seb128: ^ let's NEW this package to stop people from breaking their machines, shall we? /me looks
[04:22] <pitti> davmor2: if all goes well, you can install network-manager-gnome again in about two hours
[04:23] <davmor2> pitti: okay thanks is it just one of those alpha moments then :)
[04:23] <pitti> davmor2: yeah; you should pay attention to the packages apt-get dist-upgrade wants to remove
[04:24] <pitti> and only upgrade instead of dist-upgrade if it's something important
[04:24] <shawarma> ion_: I don't know, dude. It's really odd!
[04:25] <pitti> Tonio_: hmm, I'm afraid you have to upload again. COPYING.LIB needs to be in the orig.tar.gz, not in the diff.gz
[04:26] <davmor2> pitti: I never realised you could do that.  Also is there any reason why update-manager has stopped working?
[04:26] <pitti> davmor2: update-manager -> mvo question
[04:27] <davmor2> mvo: Any idea why update-manager has stopped working?
[04:28] <Hobbsee> davmor2: no network connection, maybe
[04:29] <davmor2> Hobbsee: no I can update via cli and synaptic just dies with u-m
[04:29] <ion_> hobbsee: I was reminded of an old IRC quote of someone complaining about his Internet connection not working on IRC. :-)
[04:29] <Hobbsee> ahhh
[04:29] <Hobbsee> true that
[04:29] <ion_> complaining on IRC, that is.
[04:31] <Tonio_> pitti: hehe, I was pretty sure you would complain about that :)
[04:31] <Tonio_> pitti: no time today, I'll upload tomorrow
[04:31] <pitti> Tonio_: if you promise, I'll NEW it now to sort out the uninstallability
[04:31] <pitti> Tonio_: or no, wait, that would make the orig.tar.gz name ugly
[04:36] <siretart> 
[04:36] <mvo> davmor2: update-manager is working for me, so you have to be a bit more specific :) best is probably to either file a bugreport or come to #synaptic and give me more details
[04:36] <seb128> re
[04:36] <seb128> pitti: feel free to look at it
[04:36] <Tonio_> pitti: as long as the current applet works.... that can wait tomorrow I guess
[04:36] <seb128> pitti: I didn't reject it because I was too lazy to write the rejection mail, I prefer to ping on IRC, wait on a new upload and accept this one :p
[04:36] <seb128> pitti, Tonio_: there is no requirement for the license to be in the orig I think
[04:36] <Hobbsee> mvo: i think someone else mentioned it in #ubuntu+1 a few days ago
[04:36] <pitti> seb128: there is
[04:36] <pitti> seb128: the orig.tar.gz itself needs to be redistributable
[04:36] <Tonio_> pitti: the point is that I didn't want to touch the tarball :)
[04:36] <Tonio_> pitti: but I'll rebuild it, no problem
[04:36] <seb128> pitti: why? the diff.gz is at the same place on the server
[04:36] <pitti> Tonio_: upstream needs to fix his' anyway
[04:36] <seb128> pitti: I've opened a bug upstream
[04:36] <pitti> seb128: yeah, I know it's picky
[04:36] <Tonio_> pitti: of course, I'll ping upstream on that point
[04:36] <pitti> thanks
[04:38] <seb128> Tonio_: I opened a bug on bugzilla already
[04:38] <Tonio_> seb128: just read that, thanks :)
[04:45] <xivulon> Hi, anybody familiar with the suspend/hibernation mechanism?
[04:45] <xivulon>  I'd need some help to make it work with wubi (wubi is installed in a file mounted via fuse). I played a bit with acpi-support settings to no avail.
[04:50] <Keybuk> http://awn.wetpaint.com/page/Make+Topaz+Ideas+a+Reality
[04:50] <Keybuk> ^ pretty
[04:53] <ion_> Unreadable due to opacity.
[04:54] <desrt> Keybuk; 'sup?  haven't heard from you in a while :p
[04:54] <Keybuk> desrt: I'm good :)
[04:55] <desrt> you'd be better if you had tea.
[04:57] <Hobbsee> nah
[04:57] <desrt> just normal this-is-how-i-feel-like-treating-desrt-today stuff?
[04:59] <Hobbsee> desrt: it's impending-maths-exam-induced rage
[04:59] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: dont make me kick you in the shins.  people tell me that it hurts.
[04:59] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: maybe I'm wearing full plate armour.
[05:00] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: which means you'll have a terrible time trying to wander around debconf
[05:00] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: motorised full plate armour.
[05:01] <Hobbsee> hah
[05:01] <Nafallo> lol
[05:01] <Hobbsee> good luck with that
[05:01] <thom> i tend to find plate armour and a large sword does wonders for getting around places
[05:01] <Hobbsee> thom: true - but i'm not allowed to take it to work.
[05:01] <davmor2> Hobbsee: borrow this stick of dynamite place it in the back of the plate mail :)
[05:01] <Hobbsee> the sword, that is.
[05:02] <Hobbsee> davmor2: ahh.  right.  blow all the painful people at work up
[05:03] <Hobbsee> ahem.  wait.
[05:03] <Hobbsee> i'm not allowed to do that, dammit.
[05:03] <Nafallo> hmm
[05:04] <Nafallo> xv is screwed for playing videos @ i845GE again...
[05:04] <Nafallo> both xine and mplayer affected.
[05:10] <desrt> Hobbsee; ah.  that'll get to anyone.
[05:11] <Hobbsee> desrt: yes.  someone else should have to do it.
[05:11] <desrt> i'm fairly sure that, even down-under, exams don't work like that
[05:11] <Hobbsee> true.
[05:11] <Hobbsee> unfortunately
[05:33] <pitti> mvo_: I try to teach synaptic not to display debconf questions. However, setting DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive does not work
[05:33] <pitti> mvo_: is there a trick?
[05:33] <mvo_> pitti: hrm, that is most likey a synaptic bug
[05:34] <pitti> mvo_: can I set the priority somehow? setting it to critical should work as well for my purpose
[05:37] <mvo_> pitti: DEBIAN_PRIORITY=critical should work
[05:38] <pitti> mvo_: that did it, thanks!
[05:46] <psusi> it seems that VAR=$((VAR+1)) is a bashism... how would one do this under dash?
[05:49] <Mithrandir> \u@\h:\w$ A=1
[05:49] <Mithrandir> \u@\h:\w$ A=$(( $A + 1 ))
[05:49] <Mithrandir> \u@\h:\w$ echo $A
[05:49] <Mithrandir> 2
[05:49] <Mithrandir> (with dash)
[05:55] <psusi> what was with the "\u@\h:\w$" stuff leading eac of those lines?
[05:56] <psusi> looks like line noise ;)
[05:57] <ogra> some people call that aprompt i think :)
[05:57] <ogra> heh
[05:57] <Mithrandir> dash doesn't do prompt expansions like bash does
[05:57] <ogra> *a prompt
[06:04] <Keybuk> psusi: it's not a bashism
[06:04] <Keybuk> psusi: $((expression)) is valid POSIX, and supported by dash
[06:04] <Keybuk> quest scott% dash -c 'echo $((4 + 3))'
[06:04] <Keybuk> 7
[06:04] <Keybuk> though the missing $ on VAR may be a bashism
[06:04] <Keybuk> $(($VAR+1)) is portable
[06:04] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: why are you exporting PS1 ?
[06:05] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: hysterical raisins, I suspect.
[06:06] <ogra> yummy
[06:06] <Keybuk> Thought of the Day:  if you blog, make sure your e-mail address is obtainable somewhere ... just in case some nice man likes a post, and wants to hire you
[06:08] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: heh.  smart.
[06:08] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: some people try to stay slightly private :P
[06:14] <Hobbsee> seems they never suceed, though.
[06:15] <Keybuk> heh
[06:15] <Keybuk> the irony of private blogging is compelling
[06:16] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: there's a difference between a person online, and that person being able to be traced back in their home country
[06:16] <Viper550> I'm going to begin work on a project for possibly Ubuntu
[06:17] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: unfortunately, this gets rather blown away when you get invited to a UDS, or whatever.
[06:18] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: kde crashes? ;-)
[06:18] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: occasionally
[06:18] <Hobbsee> gnome themes still crash more for me
[06:19] <LaserJock> I haven't really had any problems since I got rid of NetworkManager
[06:19] <pochu> Viper550: that's cool! What are you thinking about? Triaging bugs, packaging...?
[06:19] <LaserJock> at first I thought Feisty must have done something nasty, then Burgundavia told me to try removing NM, now it's pretty rock solid
[06:19] <Viper550> Actually, most specifically, it could really help out Dell. I'm planning on doing a System Recovery system for Linux
[06:20] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: btw - why did you flood planet?
[06:20] <Keybuk> Hobbsee: Planet bug
[06:20] <ogra> Hobbsee, global warming
[06:20] <Nafallo> Hobbsee: changed feed URL :-)
[06:20] <Hobbsee> more to the point "are you aware that you flooded it?"
[06:20] <Hobbsee> ahhh
[06:20] <Keybuk> Hobbsee: I unflooded it, no?
[06:20] <Hobbsee> planet debian is flooded still
[06:20] <Keybuk> I changed my feed URL to exclude posts about PPL training, since that's rather off-topic
[06:20] <Keybuk> Hobbsee: yeah, I told mako
[06:21] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: yeah, ubuntu is
[06:21] <Hobbsee> ahhh
[06:21] <Viper550> pochu: sorta like this (scroll down) http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTI5Nyw5LCxoY29uc3VtZXI=
[06:21] <LaserJock> people
[06:22] <Hobbsee> ah
[06:23] <Viper550> My plan is to make it utilize Mondo
[06:23] <Keybuk> Hobbsee: learning to fly
[06:23] <somerville32> Rubber flooring?
[06:23] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: oh *neat*
[06:24] <pochu> Viper550: a recovery tool?
[06:24] <Viper550> pochu: you know how those newer XP computers have those recovery partitions and all that?
[06:26] <pochu> Nope
[06:27] <Viper550> you press a key on bootup and it reformats and everything
[06:28] <Hobbsee> that's....risky
[06:29] <Hobbsee> *holding key, absent mindedly*...."oh shit, where's my documents???"
[06:29] <Viper550> Yeah, they have them for Windows system builders, but why not a Linux-based one? Also, it does still give you options once you hit it
[06:29] <pitti> BenC: do you think it would be reasonable to make the bcm43xx module fail to load at all if there's no firmware? then we could avoid rmmod'ing it when installing the firmware (which is not recommended AFAIK)
[06:30] <Viper550> Hobbsee: just go here, they've got pictures of Gateway's utility: http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTI5Nyw5LCxoY29uc3VtZXI=
[06:30] <Nafallo> Viper550: since linux is more stable and doesn't need as much reformating? :-)
 but still, what if you mess something up? Dell's ubuntu machines have DOS based recovery
[06:31] <Nafallo> Viper550: then we have what seb128 linked you earlier? :-)
[06:32] <Viper550> Mondo
[06:32] <Nafallo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FriendlyRecovery
[06:32] <Nafallo> you might want to integrate your idea into that framework anyway...
[06:33] <Viper550> But, I'm thinking about this as a universal system that's distro-independent, although the recovery enviroment could be Ubuntu based
[06:33] <Viper550> Codename Iono is about to begin
[06:34] <somerville32> Oh my.
[06:35] <Hobbsee> speaking of blogs.  i could swear my blog had more info than that before.
[06:35] <LaserJock> hmm, why wouldn't you just stick a LiveCD squashfs on a separate partition and load that up as a "Recovery Partition"?
[06:35] <LaserJock> or is that the idea
[06:36] <BenC> pitti: it's a possibility. Can you file a wishlist bug to that affect?
[06:36] <pitti> BenC: sure
 I'm not quite sure, but the recovery partition will utilize a Mondo image possibly
[06:37] <Viper550> And, it will also use an Ubuntu based GUI to launch and manage it
[06:41] <Viper550> Adding it to launchpad
[06:41] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: can you give back kdemultimedia on amd64 and ia64 please?
[06:42] <Viper550> https://launchpad.net/iono
[06:42] <zasf> pitti: hey Martin
[06:42] <pitti> hi zasf
[06:42] <zasf> pitti: just got your email
[06:42] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: done
[06:43] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: thanks
[06:43] <pitti> zasf: I'll upload the new package today; I'm still working on some stuff, though
[06:43] <zasf> pitti: I'm so glad you merged it :)
[06:43] <pitti> zasf: it was much more changes than I expected TBH
[06:43] <zasf> what do you mean? dirty code?
[06:44] <pitti> zasf: TBH the LRMDriverHandler seems a bit overkill to me, and I cannot test it
[06:44] <pitti> zasf: no, just more changes than I thought you made :)
[06:44] <zasf> pitti: sorry about that
[06:44] <pitti> zasf: but if you have hardware that's covered by that default configuration file and it works, that's fine :)
[06:44] <zasf> pitti: I realized to late that I personalized too much the code
[06:44] <pitti> zasf: oh, no need to be sorry; I just meant it took me a while to grind through it
[06:44] <psusi> Keybuk, so the bashism is that it doesn't require the $ inside the $()?
[06:45] <Hobbsee> hiya heno 
[06:45] <pitti> zasf: but in any case, do you think we can clean up lrm_driver.py a bit? it currently has a lot of internal and duplicated knowledge about lrm-common
[06:45] <heno> hey Hobbsee
[06:45] <pitti> zasf: like the module grouping
[06:45] <pitti> zasf: this should go into lrm-common itself through some easy interface, and that class should use it
[06:45] <zasf> pitti: I'll have a look at it
[06:46] <zasf> pitti: I also have done some more tests wich bcm43xx, will share my thoughts via email
[06:46] <zasf> pitti: if that is ok with you
[06:46] <heno> To all: Please note the change in bug states that takes effect tomorrow: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2007-June/023836.html
[06:46] <pitti> zasf: appreciated, thanks
[06:47] <pitti> zasf: after some fixes it works great for me now, too
[06:47] <pitti> zasf: nice job! *hug*
[06:47] <zasf> pitti: thanks a lot :D
[06:47] <zasf> pitti: Ubuntu is so much fun
[06:48] <zasf> pitti: I'll get back to you via email, gotta go now
[06:48] <zasf> goodbye everybody
[06:50] <LaserJock> heno: hmm, I've got a bit of an issue with "triaged", did the LP guys do a lot of user consultation on that one?
[06:51] <Lazesharp> hi guys, how should I go about making a comment on a gutsy spec?
[06:51] <Hobbsee> Lazesharp: on the whiteboard, iirc?
[06:51] <LaserJock> Lazesharp: it should have a wiki page attached to it
[06:51] <Hobbsee> or teh wiki page
[06:51] <Lazesharp> I thought the whiteboard was for status comments?
[06:51] <Lazesharp> so on the wiki page then
[06:51] <Lazesharp> right, cheers
[06:51] <psusi> and if dash doesn't do prompt expansion, then how do we still have a functioning prompt?
[06:52] <LaserJock> "we" as in?
[06:52] <psusi> oh wait... we're still using bash for the user shell, but dash for /bin/sh?
[06:52] <psusi> ubuntu
[06:52] <LaserJock> exactly
[06:52] <LaserJock> user shells are still bash
[06:52] <psusi> why did we switch to dash for /bin/sh then?
[06:53] <mjg59> Because it's faster
[06:53] <Mithrandir> it's faster and more standards-compliant
[06:53] <heno> LaserJock: there was a BOF at UDS Sevilla
[06:53] <Hobbsee> heno: he was part of the discussions before hand, over lunch
[06:53] <heno> making it just perfect for everyone is impossible
[06:54] <Hobbsee> this is true
[06:54] <psusi> hrm... it is faster for bash to fork and execute dash to interpret the script instead of interpreting it directly?  wait... doesn't bash interpret it directly if it sees it's a shell script?
[06:54] <Mithrandir> no, it doesn't
[06:54] <LaserJock> heno: yes, and I only remember Rejected getting split into won't fix and not a bug 
[06:54] <psusi> hrm... only does that if you . foo.sh eh?
[06:55] <LaserJock> heno: my issue is that when I talk about triaging anywhere, there's at least a one or two people who have no idea what the word "triage" means, especially in non-English countries
[06:55] <Lazesharp> direct them to a combination of a translation tool and a dictionary
[06:56] <LaserJock> that's a bit of a cope out, IMO
[06:56] <LaserJock> *cop ?
[06:56] <Lazesharp> yeah, cop
[06:56] <Lazesharp> call it "bug assessment" or something?
[06:57] <heno> it's difficult to capture that process in any one word
[06:57] <LaserJock> in fact, I think it might be wise to assess our heavy use of "triage" in BugSquad/QA
[06:58] <heno> that would be a reason for not introducing any technical words that you have to explain
[06:58] <Lazesharp> question re: commenting on the wiki, where should I comment? should I create a section called "Comments" or something? what's the generally accepted standard?
[06:58] <LaserJock> at least ones that people aren't commonly going to know
[06:58] <heno> it's usually good advice but it cannot always be avoided
[06:58] <LaserJock> Lazesharp: that works
[06:58] <LaserJock> heno: well, I just know of one person that was avoiding helping triaging because they didn't know what the word meant
[06:59] <LaserJock> once I told them then they were happy to help
[07:00] <LaserJock> anyway, it's not a big deal as long as we're aware that we need to document what the the status's mean
[07:01] <ion_> mvo: You packaged compizconfig-setup-manager, right? Could you perhaps upload the source package somewhere it could be downloaded from until its available in gutsy?
[07:02] <pitti> ion_: source NEW queue is published daily
[07:03] <pitti> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/queue/
[07:03] <ion_> pitti: Thanks, good to know.
[07:03] <pitti> oh, unless he didn't upload it at all yet, of course
[07:05] <Lazesharp> ok, final question guys, what are the chances of comments actually being read by those developing the specs?
[07:05] <Lazesharp> actually, don't worry, I just noticed the subscription thing
[07:11] <Keybuk> Lazesharp: any edits to the spec will show up in the assignee's INBOX
[07:11] <Keybuk> of course, they may not actually reply or anything
[07:11] <Lazesharp> yeah, thanks, I just noticed
[07:12] <Lazesharp> I have to admit guys, I'm impressed, normally the sort of questions I've just asked in a development channel would be trampled upon and I'd be set on fire (or the IRC equivilent). It's a testament to the Ubuntu community spirit. :)
[07:13] <Lazesharp> makes me want to get involved that much more
[07:14] <pitti> mvo, Riddell: FYI, I added my xorg.conf formatting fix to guidance-backends and dropped the code copy from restricted-manager; displayconfig-gtk should do the same now
[08:20] <bryce> hi all, I've upgraded linux-restricted-modules with the new fglrx:  http://people.ubuntu.com/~bryce/Testing/
[08:20] <bryce> the debs work ok on my radeon system, and I've had one other person successfully install them, but would appreciate additional testing feedback
[08:22] <bryce> the specific packages we installed (YMMV) are:  fglrx-control, xorg-driver-fglrx, fglrx-kernel-source, linux-restricted-modules-common, linux-restricted-modules-2.6.22
[08:23] <bryce> oh, btw, since fglrx doesn't support composite, don't forget to turn Compiz off before running these
[09:15] <rbs-tito> Hi guys, I've just finished my first patch and the guys at bugsquad said it is OK. Would anyone care to take a look?
[09:16] <rbs-tito> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/desktop-effects/+bug/120853
[09:16] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 120853 in desktop-effects "Repeated word in error message" [Undecided,Confirmed]  
[09:16] <Lazesharp> are comments allowed on specifications that have been accepted?
[09:17] <Lazesharp> it says "If it is Approved, contact the Assignee or another knowledgeable person before making changes." but I'm not certain that includes comments?
[09:17] <bryce> Lazesharp: yup, comments are fine
[09:18] <Lazesharp> thanks
[09:18] <bryce> heya mvo
[09:19] <mvo> hey bryce!
[09:19] <bryce> mvo, do you know where glatzor is?  I haven't seen him in a few days.  Conferencing perhaps?
[09:20] <mvo> bryce: learning for his final exams :)
[09:20] <bryce> ahhh
[09:20] <mvo> bryce: I talked to him today, he is alive and kicking, just very busy - anything in particular you want to talk to him about?
[09:20] <bryce> nope, just curious how he was doing
[09:20] <ogra> bryce, hey
[09:21] <bryce> I've not been tinkering with displayconfig lately; trying to get bugs and packaging under control
[09:21] <bryce> heya ogra
[09:21] <bryce> mvo, wish him luck in his exams :-)
[09:21] <ogra> bryce, i told you already ltsp works great without xorg.conf ... but now i discovered one prob ...apparently the X server cant restart properly, complaining about the framebuffer 
[09:22] <bryce> hrm
[09:22] <ogra> i suspect something hogs it even Xorg is gone
[09:22] <bryce> ogra: one thing I've been thinking we could try is running xorg with just the Screen, Device, and Monitor sections missing
[09:23] <mvo> bryce: I will, thanks :)
[09:23] <bryce> ogra: in theory, with xserver 1.3 that should work, however I haven't tested it as extensively as I want to 
[09:23] <bryce> ogra, perhaps GDM?
[09:23] <ogra> bryce, well, that would still mean i have to use debconf to configure it ... 
[09:23] <ogra> bryce, well, ldm ... we have our own display manager ...
[09:24] <ogra> but the thing is that it works fine with a file created by Xorg -configure 
[09:24] <bryce> hmm, I think I ran across an option for gdm to force it to really restart... dunno if that relates, but lemme dig it up
[09:24] <ogra> which i would assume to use the same values as if i run it without any config
[09:24] <ogra> so its somehow related to the existence of the file
[09:24] <bryce> I bet that's true
[09:25] <bryce> aha, in /etc/gdm/gdm.conf there's an "AlwaysRestartServer" option
[09:25] <bryce> I don't know anything about ldm but if it's gdm-like, maybe it has a similar thing going on?
[09:25] <ogra> well, i cant even run startx from the commandline
[09:25] <bryce> hmm
[09:25] <ogra> i could implement it, yes 
[09:27] <bryce> is ldm running when you try to run startx?
[09:27] <bryce> if it isn't, then my guess would be wrong
[09:28] <bryce> do you happen to have the error message handy?  I could do some poking around for you
[09:29] <ogra> nope. ldm isnt running, i clean the processlist
[09:30] <ogra> i'm not near my lab atm, but i can get it for you tonight ... i'll file a bug 
[09:31] <bryce> ok cool
[10:14] <Il0v3LuCifer> howdy good folks
[10:15] <Il0v3LuCifer> *hint*: would be good if you could customize from repositories and pull from different variants of ubuntu then install all related dbg packages, like a meta dbg package for further scrutinization of segfaults
[11:00] <Nafallo> hmm. is apport usuable from cli? :-)
[11:00] <Nafallo> i.e. would it make any sence at all on a server?
[11:00] <pitti> Nafallo: apport-cli :)
[11:00] <pitti> Nafallo: that's the intent, yes
[11:01] <Nafallo> pitti: was that implemented in feisty already? :-)
[11:01] <pitti> Nafallo: es
[11:01] <pitti> yes, even
[11:01] <Nafallo> kewl. installs then :-)
[11:02] <Nafallo> not that I think it will be used much but... ;-)
[11:08] <Kmos> pitti: check your mail