[08:55] <dholbach> good morning
[04:23] <cynics> @schedule shanghai
[04:23] <ubotu> Schedule for Asia/Shanghai: 22 Jun 02:00: Mozilla Team | 22 Jun 04:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Jun 04:00: Ubuntu US LoCo Team | 26 Jun 23:00: Kernel Team | 27 Jun 20:00: Edubuntu | 28 Jun 04:00: Xubuntu Developers
[04:25] <Hobbsee> @schedule sydney
[04:25] <ubotu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 22 Jun 04:00: Mozilla Team | 22 Jun 06:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Jun 06:00: Ubuntu US LoCo Team | 27 Jun 01:00: Kernel Team | 27 Jun 22:00: Edubuntu | 28 Jun 06:00: Xubuntu Developers
[04:26] <jsgotangco> @schedule manila
[04:26] <ubotu> Schedule for Asia/Manila: 22 Jun 02:00: Mozilla Team | 22 Jun 04:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Jun 04:00: Ubuntu US LoCo Team | 26 Jun 23:00: Kernel Team | 27 Jun 20:00: Edubuntu | 28 Jun 04:00: Xubuntu Developers
[04:27] <jsgotangco> Hobbsee: i thought you were in Perth?
[04:28] <Hobbsee> jsgotangco: ....nope
[04:28] <Hobbsee> jsgotangco: i've never been to perth
[04:32] <Hobbsee> not sure.
[05:01] <evand> @schedule New_York
[05:01] <ubotu> Schedule for America/New_York: 21 Jun 14:00: Mozilla Team | 21 Jun 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 23 Jun 16:00: Ubuntu US LoCo Team | 26 Jun 11:00: Kernel Team | 27 Jun 08:00: Edubuntu | 27 Jun 16:00: Xubuntu Developers
[05:03] <dendrobates> Are we having this today?
[05:03] <stgraber> @schedule Zurich
[05:03] <ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Zurich: 21 Jun 20:00: Mozilla Team | 21 Jun 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 23 Jun 22:00: Ubuntu US LoCo Team | 26 Jun 17:00: Kernel Team | 27 Jun 14:00: Edubuntu | 27 Jun 22:00: Xubuntu Developers
[05:37] <zul> @schedule montreal
[05:37] <ubotu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 21 Jun 14:00: Mozilla Team | 21 Jun 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 23 Jun 16:00: Ubuntu US LoCo Team | 26 Jun 11:00: Kernel Team | 27 Jun 08:00: Edubuntu | 27 Jun 16:00: Xubuntu Developers
[05:55] <tkjacobsen> @schedule copenhagen
[05:55] <ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Copenhagen: 21 Jun 20:00: Mozilla Team | 21 Jun 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 23 Jun 22:00: Ubuntu US LoCo Team | 26 Jun 17:00: Kernel Team | 27 Jun 14:00: Edubuntu | 27 Jun 22:00: Xubuntu Developers
[05:56] <laga> @schedule berlin
[05:56] <ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 21 Jun 20:00: Mozilla Team | 21 Jun 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 23 Jun 22:00: Ubuntu US LoCo Team | 26 Jun 17:00: Kernel Team | 27 Jun 14:00: Edubuntu | 27 Jun 22:00: Xubuntu Developers
[05:56] <laga> duh, i feel stupid now
[05:59] <Ju> ;-)
[06:28] <wmagliano> hola
[06:29] <wmagliano> alguien "habla" espaol?
[06:31] <pochu> wmagliano: yo, pero mejor pregunta en #ubuntu-es
[06:40] <wmagliano> :D gracias
[07:59] <hjmf> hi
[08:00] <JenFraggle> hello
[08:00] <asac> hi all :)
[08:02] <asac> if you attend please add your name to the Wiki :)
[08:02] <asac> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Meetings
[08:02] <asac> gnomefreak: yt?
[08:04] <Admiral_Chicago> sorry I can't stay people
[08:05] <JenFraggle> done
[08:06] <asac> cool ... lets wait another minute for gnomefreak ... who was pretty sure to be here ;)
[08:06] <hjmf> ok
[08:08] <JenFraggle> no worries
[08:08] <Admiral_Chicago> have a good meeting everyone, feel free to sign up JenFraggle for everything
[08:09] <asac> Admiral_Chicago: bye
[08:09] <JenFraggle> bye bye
[08:11] <asac> gnomefreak: 2 min :)
[08:14] <tkamppeter> @schedules lisbon
[08:15] <asac> ok so lets get started ;)
[08:15] <JenFraggle> ok
[08:15] <asac> we actually have a pretty long agenda for so little people in here ;)
[08:15] <asac> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Meetings
[08:16] <JenFraggle> be gentle, it's my first time
[08:16] <asac> JenFraggle: don't worry ;)
[08:16] <asac> hjmf: you there?
[08:16] <hjmf> yes
[08:17] <asac> so ... first item would be: Mozilla Testing Team
[08:17] <asac> apparently this item was pushed back from last meeting.
[08:18] <asac> I think the idea was to better organize testing
[08:18] <hjmf> is gnomefreak around?
[08:18] <asac> and try to get people that could do that regularly closer to mozillateam
[08:18] <asac> gnomefreak: apparently not
[08:18] <asac> hjmf: ^^^
[08:19] <asac> i think we can skip directly to the tag review stuff ... which would involve bughelper clues and bug triagers :)
[08:19] <hjmf> yes
[08:19] <JenFraggle> ok
[08:20] <asac> anyway ... just a few more words for the mozilla testing team
[08:20] <asac> i think we should try to get the qa-team involved for that ... and setup something like a testplan
[08:21] <asac> like currently exists for isotesting:
[08:21] <asac> https://isotesting.stgraber.org/
[08:21] <asac> then we could post that to the qateam and receive feeback from them
[08:22] <hjmf> yes it would be good to have some sort of organized & directed tests
[08:22] <asac> its most important to track regressions for security/stability updates that go to stable release archives
[08:22] <asac> with almost no testing atm
[08:23] <hjmf> I imagine that those testers will go through the mt-needtest and mt-needtester bugs
[08:23] <hjmf> too
[08:24] <asac> hjmf: right ... but i think those are two distinct effords
[08:24] <JenFraggle> what are they testing?
[08:24] <asac> 1. ensure short term quality (e.g. hard regressions in uploads)
[08:24] <asac> 2. ensure long term quality (e.g. try to reproduce et al)
[08:24] <asac> JenFraggle: for 2. they are trying to reproduce bugs that are tagges as mt-needtester
[08:25] <asac> for 1. we have to setup kind of a testplan to verify the most important features
[08:25] <asac> i have setup something on the wiki
[08:25] <gnomefreak> give me a few minutes sorry im running late
[08:25] <hjmf> gnomefreak: hi :)
[08:25] <gnomefreak> hi
[08:25] <JenFraggle> hello
[08:25] <asac> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/QA?highlight=%28mozillateam%29
[08:25] <asac> thats the testplan we currently have
[08:26] <asac> to test if there are hard regressions directly before a release
[08:26] <asac> imo we should split this up in 3-4 subtasks which will then can be tested and reviews submitted to something that is like current isotesting site (https://isotesting.stgraber.org)
[08:26] <hjmf> so finally are we going to create a dedicated lp bug, or will it be more infomal?
[08:27] <asac> hjmf: for what?
[08:27] <hjmf> for testers
[08:27] <asac> ah ... to announce that there is such a task available?
[08:27] <hjmf> yes, that might an incentive
[08:27] <hjmf> not sure
[08:28] <JenFraggle> that is how i came across you, the firefox clue bug
[08:28] <asac> hjmf: i think we should maintain existing tasks on a wiki page ... and have *one* generic bug titled 'various things todo in mozillateam' bug or something ;)
[08:28] <asac> JenFraggle: what did attract you on that bug?
[08:29] <asac> JenFraggle: how did you find it?
[08:29] <asac> do you still remeember
[08:29] <JenFraggle> i'll have a think
[08:30] <gnomefreak> where are we?
[08:30] <asac> gnomefreak: first point
[08:30] <asac> testing team
[08:30] <asac> read history ... i outlined the idea and what i think is the right way to go
[08:30] <gnomefreak> ah good. ISO testing?
[08:30] <JenFraggle> think it was https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+mentoring
[08:30] <asac> the idea is to get something up which more or less like the isotesting site
[08:30] <hjmf> asac: im ok with the idea
[08:30] <JenFraggle> not 100% sure though
[08:31] <gnomefreak> you mean your points 1-5
[08:31] <asac> maybe a new menu item on that site: "firefox" :)
[08:31] <asac> JenFraggle: so you think its better to have many bugs with mentoring that outline each single task available
[08:31] <gnomefreak> oh set up like the iso tester site
[08:32] <asac> JenFraggle: ... or a single one that just points to a page that contains current tasks?
[08:32] <asac> gnomefreak: yes look at it
[08:32] <asac> https://isotesting.stgraber.org/
[08:32] <JenFraggle> not sure, i can see advantages and disadvantages to both
[08:32] <gnomefreak> i have it
[08:33] <asac> stgraber: did you develop that site?
[08:33] <stgraber> yes
[08:33] <asac> stgraber: how much work to add another menu item like: mozilla or firefox ?
[08:33] <gnomefreak> gonna be hard since its named ISo testing?
[08:34] <JenFraggle> i think the important thing would be to have a good description as that is what gets people to look further at the bug
[08:34] <asac> i will talk with heno anyway, just to know about the extent of making this a more general, test-collaboration page
[08:34] <asac> gnomefreak: the idea is to make something more general out of the isotesting site ... maybe different subdomains for other things.
[08:34] <gnomefreak> k
[08:35] <stgraber> asac: We now have some ISO specific part, but it should be possible to use the existing way of testing ISO to test software, replacing ISOs by Softwares and then use the existing testcase system
[08:35] <stgraber> asac: it shouldn't be a lot of work
[08:35] <asac> stgraber: thats cool ... i will discuss things with heno
[08:36] <hjmf> meanwhile we can do the bug with task to test idea
[08:36] <hjmf> task/tasks
[08:36] <asac> hjmf: right
[08:37] <gnomefreak> is the plan to keep this inside mozillateam as is?
[08:37] <asac> hjmf: i think we should have one open for "testcase verifier"
[08:37] <asac> pointing them to the mt-needtester tag
[08:37] <asac> and "testcase digger" ... people that hunt mt-needtestcase bugs to either produce a testcase or die
[08:37] <hjmf> ok for me
[08:38] <asac> ok ACTION: i will talk to heno how we can organize upload testing
[08:38] <asac> anyone wants to open those bugs :)
[08:38] <asac> ok ... i think i will do it too :)
[08:38] <asac> next item
[08:38] <asac> gnomefreak: ??
[08:39] <gnomefreak> huh oh sorry
[08:39] <gnomefreak> someone called ops
[08:39] <asac> gnomefreak: your agenda item: 'Ubuntu Forums' :)
[08:39] <gnomefreak> I would like a couple of people to add forums to their jobs, I will go through the process im thinking about (this could be the start of a wider testing base).
[08:40] <asac> k sounds related to the previous item ... but more specific: how can we get the forum involved in testing
[08:40] <gnomefreak> ok i have a template of a post for ubuntu forums i will pastebin it in a few moments
[08:41] <asac> here again, i think that heno wanted to establish a forum sub-community that is dedicated to help us with QA
[08:41] <gnomefreak> the reasoning is to get people instrested in the team (jobs that need people to help out with, and so on). brb gonna post letter that i need ideas on
[08:41] <asac> ok
[08:42] <gnomefreak> http://gnomefreak.pastebin.ca/581823  this should explain better, it is open for ideas that were missed
[08:43] <gnomefreak> any questions/idea shoot when you have time if you think its something that needs to be addressed now shoot
[08:44] <asac> gnomefreak: actually i think that this would be a good text for the META job bug
[08:44] <gnomefreak> asac: you want the meta bug added to this?
[08:44] <asac> you can add it to some forum ... and get it sticky as well ... but maybe ask pricechild or other forum staff what would be the most appropriate way to make forum users aware of this
[08:44] <asac> gnomefreak: i want a meta bug that summarized tasks we have atm
[08:45] <gnomefreak> asac: already done just waiting on a link to give him
[08:45] <gnomefreak> asac: only one task though i thought
[08:45] <gnomefreak> metabug maintainence
[08:45] <asac> gnomefreak: yes ... have one bug for each task, plus one general bug 'various tasks to do in mozilla-team'
[08:46] <gnomefreak> hmmmm
[08:46] <asac> gnomefreak: ok ... so this is already posted to forum?
[08:46] <gnomefreak> asac: unless its missing anything somepne sees
[08:47] <gnomefreak> someone
[08:47] <asac> gnomefreak: yeah if you cut line lines and remove *****
[08:47] <asac> lines :)
[08:47] <asac> then it looks good
[08:47] <gnomefreak> lol
[08:48] <asac> gnomefreak: please post a bug about this as well
[08:48] <gnomefreak> its there to remind me
[08:48] <gnomefreak> k remind me after meeting
[08:48] <asac> gnomefreak: i am not really sure where to post, but thats your job to figure out :)
[08:48] <gnomefreak> JenFraggle: hjmf anything?
[08:48] <asac> gnomefreak: please add to wiki page as "decision" :)
[08:48] <hjmf> to me looks good
[08:48] <gnomefreak> asac: i already have it taken care of :)
[08:49] <asac> gnomefreak: ok
[08:49] <asac> ok next item?
[08:49] <hjmf> however wait to post till the metabug is done
[08:49] <asac> If possible i would like to either accept or decline the proposed memberships [WWW]  Proposed Members
[08:49] <hjmf> or you can edit it later?
[08:49] <JenFraggle> gnomefreak: ok
[08:49] <asac> hjmf: yeah please post the metabug :)
[08:49] <asac> gnomefreak: i mean ;)
[08:50] <asac> ok next item is: <gnomefreak> If possible i would like to either accept or decline the proposed memberships [WWW]  Proposed Members
[08:50] <hjmf> there aren't proposed members
[08:50] <gnomefreak> done already
[08:50] <hjmf> ah
[08:50] <asac> gnomefreak: ah ;)
[08:50] <gnomefreak> hjmf: i already got there.] 
[08:50] <gnomefreak> but
[08:50] <asac> next item ... wiki cleanup ;)
[08:50] <gnomefreak> we have alot of members that since accepted havent done anything
[08:50] <asac> JenFraggle: have you read the wiki recently
[08:50] <asac> JenFraggle: what are your comments?
[08:50] <hjmf> gnomefreak: yes
[08:50] <gnomefreak> asac: give me a minute to type im still a bit shakey
[08:51] <hjmf> maybe we should remove some
[08:51] <asac> gnomefreak: maybe post after the meeting
[08:51] <asac> gnomefreak: when there is no hurry
[08:51] <gnomefreak> hjmf: i was thinking that wanted to pass it here
[08:51] <asac> hjmf: from the team?
[08:51] <gnomefreak> asac: yes
[08:51] <hjmf> yes
[08:51] <asac> yeah ... how to remove ... what procedure to follow?
[08:51] <gnomefreak> "click deactivate"
[08:51] <asac> no activity for 3 month without any notice, that one is on holiday or seomthgin?
[08:51] <gnomefreak> :)
[08:51] <hjmf> some haven't done anything
[08:51] <JenFraggle> asac: I've been having a look through and am thinking of what could be changed to be more newbie friendly.  haven't had as much time as i would like to look at it at the moment
[08:52] <gnomefreak> asac: im more concerned about the people we accepted that havent done anything
[08:52] <asac> JenFraggle: you think you can give us some comments on mailing list?
[08:52] <hjmf> some accepted at the creation of the group that never appeared
[08:52] <asac> JenFraggle: unless you have some initial comments at hand now :) ... then go ahead ;)
[08:53] <asac> hjmf: yeah ... lets drop them
[08:53] <hjmf> the states and tags pages need an update
[08:53] <asac> gnomefreak: can you do?
[08:53] <gnomefreak> yes
[08:53] <JenFraggle> asac: nothing to hand at the moment, still in the reading through and thinking of what needs to be changed stage
[08:53] <asac> JenFraggle: ok ... cool ... go ahead :)
[08:53] <gnomefreak> ok JenFraggle asac what item are you on?
[08:53] <asac> still the wiki cleanup
[08:53] <gnomefreak> oh you went there already
[08:54] <asac> i ?
[08:54] <JenFraggle> trying to give a beginners perspective
[08:54] <asac> gnomefreak: oh right ... anything for the forum we missed?
[08:54] <gnomefreak> asac: im on proposed/inactive memebers
[08:54] <gnomefreak> well finished now
[08:54] <JenFraggle> gnomefreak: sorry
[08:54] <hjmf> :)
[08:54] <gnomefreak> its ok
[08:54] <asac> gnomefreak: ah ... yeah
[08:54] <gnomefreak> ok wiki clean up
[08:55] <hjmf> so wiki...
[08:55] <asac> gnomefreak: i think we decided to remove all that never appeared for now
[08:55] <gnomefreak> asac: working on it
[08:55] <asac> gnomefreak: ok
[08:55] <asac> ok ... JenFraggle will help to provide a beginners view (maybe a beginners page?)
[08:55] <asac> 2. i think I need to review the bugs/states page
[08:56] <hjmf> I think many pages need a review and an update
[08:56] <asac> but that is a topic on its own later this meeting :)
[08:56] <gnomefreak> we need people to work on wikis badly, asac JenFraggle i like that idea
[08:56] <JenFraggle> Beginner I can do, complicated stuff is beyond me at the moment
[08:56] <gnomefreak> we need a how to bug traige is main page atm
[08:56] <asac> i think the idea is: when you see that something is missing you add it on your own or take care that someone adds that content :)
[08:56] <hjmf> ...sad to say that my english is too poor to be of any help in wiki improvement
[08:56] <asac> JenFraggle: thats pretty fine.
[08:57] <gnomefreak> Admiral_Chicago: said he was working on it but i havent seen it. maybe thats the place for beginner bug traige
[08:57] <asac> hjmf: i don't think that english problems should stop you from editing it
[08:57] <gnomefreak> JenFraggle: do what you know :)
[08:57] <asac> hjmf: you can add the content ... others can clean up
[08:57] <JenFraggle> just a reminder that as I'm British, anything I do will be in British English, not American ;o)
[08:58] <asac> JenFraggle: hey ;) ... better then germanish :)
[08:58] <hjmf> JenFraggle: to me that's  better
[08:58] <gnomefreak> JenFraggle: can be fixed :)
[08:58] <JenFraggle> The Queen's English and all that
[08:58] <JenFraggle> I'll try not to make it Cornish
[08:59] <JenFraggle> me 'ansome
[08:59] <asac> but please don't modify just to change spelling from english to american and vv :)
[08:59] <JenFraggle> i wouldn't
[08:59] <asac> if you touch content for other reasons ... do what you like ;)
[08:59] <gnomefreak> if someone gets me a template to use i can fill in the stuff
[08:59] <asac> gnomefreak: fill in what stuff?
[09:00] <gnomefreak> asac: if someone pretty much sets up page i can fix it addd things to it. my problem is the beggining part of wikis i suck at
[09:00] <asac> ah ok
[09:01] <asac> so if hjmf drops some abbreviated content you can fill it with sentences for instance ;)
[09:01] <asac> good
[09:01] <JenFraggle> i don't know how to do the fancy lines and stuff
[09:01] <hjmf> lol
[09:01] <asac> i think that is enough for now ... again, if you see anything that is missing ... just add it
[09:01] <hjmf> something that make sense :D
[09:01] <asac> JenFraggle: you will see ... if you press edit just copy what you see elsewhere
[09:01] <JenFraggle> always a bonus if it makes sense
[09:01] <gnomefreak> ok mermbers cleaned up
[09:01] <gnomefreak> asac: yes
[09:02] <hjmf> looking anxiously
[09:02] <asac> ok ... moving on?
[09:02] <hjmf> ok
[09:02] <hjmf> next
[09:02] <asac> ME: Plugins/Extension Gutsy Day
[09:02] <asac> i have the feeling that i don't have a big picture on what extension/plugins exists, which ones are broken for us et al.
[09:03] <gnomefreak> you want to support all plugins? please god tell me i read that wrong
[09:03] <asac> and i am pretty much lost because there are so many of them ... and i usually won't be able to identify a testcase so quickly ... because i mostly don't understand there use
[09:03] <hjmf> so far we already have some bugs about extensions
[09:04] <asac> gnomefreak: no ... i just want a big picture ... what extensions/plugins exist and which do work
[09:04] <hjmf> maybe we can create a pool of thirdparty masterish reports
[09:04] <hjmf> instead of reject them because of being third party addons
[09:04] <gnomefreak> put all ones you want tested into a wiki page and ill be glad to pull and test. or something organized like that
[09:05] <gnomefreak> what wasa decided about wiki cleanup?
[09:05] <asac> gnomefreak: point is that doesn't scale much
[09:05] <hjmf> gnomefreak: there is already such wiki page
[09:05] <asac> gnomefreak: and how will you be able to identify a testcase for all
[09:05] <asac> ?
[09:05] <hjmf> the QA i think
[09:05] <asac> hjmf: yes the QA page has a bunch of extensions
[09:05] <asac> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/QA
[09:06] <asac> its just plugins
[09:06] <gnomefreak> acroread is nolonger supported
[09:06] <asac> ... anyway ... i think before we can actually test something we need input from people who use those ... on how to test
[09:06] <hjmf> it can be extended to extensions too
[09:07] <asac> e.g. what url is a typical use-case ... and what to do there in order to test
[09:07] <asac> hjmf: yes, but i think we should add extensions on demand, e.g. when a testcase is contributed  ... otherwise the list will probably be infinite
[09:08] <gnomefreak> any extension that has a bug attached to it
[09:08] <asac> actually I would like to add some kind of survey to the forums (again!) :)
[09:08] <gnomefreak> example clorozilla
[09:08] <asac> e.g. people that use extension should take a minute and post how they use their extension somewhere
[09:08] <gnomefreak> colorzilla even
[09:08] <asac> gnomefreak: yeah ... but we just have a few extensions like that
[09:09] <gnomefreak> asac: a few will get us started
[09:09] <asac> yes ... but colorzilla has no testcase, because its just broken :)
[09:09] <hjmf> I can use my retraces to dig e.g https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/120001/comments/4
[09:09] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 120001 in firefox "[FEISTY]  firefox crashed [@nsPluginInstanceOwner::GetDocument]  [@GetJSContext]  [@nsJSNPRuntime::OnPluginDestroy] " [High,Incomplete] 
[09:09] <asac> its more interesting to get testcases for things that work
[09:09] <hjmf> I can ask for those extensions as they appear
[09:09] <hjmf> for edgy and feisty of course
[09:10] <hjmf> as gusty is autoretraced
[09:10] <asac> hjmf: yeah getting all extension ids out of backtraces or reports is good
[09:10] <asac> but actually i think we should work on the apport hook file ... so we get a list of installed extensions automatically
[09:10] <asac> its written in python :)
[09:11] <hjmf> ... have to look :)
[09:11] <asac> and there is already an example which David developed once
[09:11] <asac> bug 88506
[09:11] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 88506 in firefox "use apport hooks to get more "standard" information on intial bug submission" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/88506
[09:13] <asac> we could use that hook to list all folders in /usr/lib/firefox/extensions/ ... as well as the extensions.ini file from the profile
[09:13] <asac> at best attach extensions.ini + a list of foders in the profiles extensions folder as well
[09:13] <hjmf> yes
[09:14] <asac> example is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Bugs/Apport/Hooks
[09:15] <hjmf> I'll work on it if nobody does
[09:16] <hjmf> ... I dunno if Admiral_Chicago was working on it
[09:16] <asac> i don't think so ... but maybe he wants to help as well
[09:16] <gnomefreak> asac: ping me before we move on to next topic please
[09:17] <hjmf> asac: where are the apport-hooks ?
[09:17] <asac> ok cool ... i think i will push these plugin-testdays back a few weeks until i discussed with heno how to organize testing in general.
[09:17] <hjmf> in the apport branch
[09:17] <hjmf> no matter, I'll look
[09:17] <asac> hjmf:  no ... just in wiki
[09:17] <asac> hjmf: we would have to ship them with firefox package
[09:17] <hjmf> ah
[09:17] <hjmf> ah ok
[09:17] <asac> e.g. put that file somewhere
[09:18] <hjmf> cool
[09:18] <asac> that info will attached on crash reports and if people press report a bug in firefox help menu
[09:18] <asac> gnomefreak: ok ... i think we are through this
[09:18] <asac> next
[09:18] <gnomefreak> ok
[09:18] <hjmf> yes, I know that, but I thought it would be like clue files :)
[09:18] <hjmf> nevermind :D
[09:18] <gnomefreak> how about 2 days a month one wiki day and 1 bug day
[09:18] <asac> since there were just two new states added, its not that pressing to adapt our tag/states policy imo
[09:18] <gnomefreak> bug day can reside inside hugday
[09:19] <gnomefreak> asac: but they were renamed
[09:19] <asac> hjmf: yeah ... difference is that we ship it to every system while clue files are only pulled to people that want to use bughelper :)
[09:19] <hjmf> asac: k
[09:19] <asac> gnomefreak: you mean plugin-qaday?
[09:20] <gnomefreak> asac: wiki clean up day and bug day and plugin-day if you wish
[09:20] <asac> hjmf: if you have questions how this work ... just ask in mt channel ;)
[09:20] <asac> gnomefreak: wow ... al at once?
[09:20] <hjmf> asac: I think I got the idea :)
[09:20] <gnomefreak> separate days
[09:20] <asac> hjmf: i know :)
[09:21] <gnomefreak> btw all clue files or hooks need to be redone with new status names since we no longer have needs info and such
[09:21] <asac> gnomefreak: ok ... so you mean in collaboration with qa team?
[09:21] <asac> gnomefreak: yeah ... needs info is gone
[09:21] <asac> but that is all afaik
[09:21] <asac> ah unconfirmed as well
[09:21] <asac> and rejected
[09:21] <gnomefreak> most are renamed
[09:21] <asac> but i don't think we use them in clue files atm
[09:21] <asac> JenFraggle: any idea`?
[09:21] <gnomefreak> i think confirmed is only one left
[09:22] <hjmf> that wont be a problem since is just a rename of states in most cases
[09:22] <asac> yeah ... but taht just a single replace for each tag ... so don't bother :)
[09:22] <JenFraggle> i haven't really had anything to do with tags so am not really sure
[09:22] <asac> s/tag/state/
[09:22] <asac> JenFraggle: ah ok.
[09:22] <asac> yeah ... but it probably is just a single replace
[09:23] <asac> hjmf: you have a cluefile at hand?
[09:23] <hjmf> yes
[09:23] <asac> hjmf: how is the sytax to match state needs info?
[09:23] <hjmf> looking
[09:23] <asac> maybe we can add a compatibility layer in bughelper :)
[09:23] <asac> e.g. just allow needs info to match incomplete as well :)
[09:24] <asac> but since its just a replace, i am not sure if its worth the efford
[09:24] <asac> though ... there are lots of clue files :)
[09:24] <hjmf> statusNEEDSINFO
[09:24] <hjmf> ?
[09:24] <hjmf> however Admiral_Chicago sent a patch today to bughelper
[09:25] <hjmf> didn't see it though
[09:25] <asac> hjmf: did it include compatibility?
[09:25] <hjmf> Bug 121501
[09:25] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 121501 in bughelper "bughelper is outdated due to LP update." [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/121501
[09:25] <asac> becuse that sytax above is not an exact match anyway ... so implementing a graceful transition would be pretty easy imo
[09:26] <asac> hmmm it doesn't touch any match metho
[09:26] <asac> d
[09:26] <asac> so is statusNEEDSINFO automatically guessed?
[09:26] <hjmf> no idea really
[09:26] <asac> from the status text?
[09:26] <asac> appears so ... well then we just should adapt clue files for us
[09:27] <asac> Admiral_Chicago: will you take care of fixing s/statusNEEDSINFO/statusINCOMPLETE/ in cluefiles?
[09:27] <gnomefreak> hes not here afaik
[09:27] <asac> i read that as yes :-O
[09:27] <asac> :-P
[09:27] <gnomefreak> :)
[09:27] <asac> yeah ... he agreed .. i am sure ;)
[09:28] <asac> cool ... i think we are through then ... btw, what happens to the old meetings pages?
[09:28] <gnomefreak> asac: are you leaving before devel meeting?
[09:28] <asac> they are apparently wiped
[09:28] <asac> gnomefreak: no
[09:28] <gnomefreak> asac: good
[09:28] <asac> i have to stop typing for a few
[09:28] <asac> and browse some code
[09:28] <asac> :)
[09:28] <gnomefreak> asac: im not sure lets meave it and ask alex
[09:28] <gnomefreak> when we see him
[09:29] <asac> lets rename them with date after the meeting
[09:29] <gnomefreak> i think thats how it was done
[09:29] <asac> i don't like the idea that those pages get lost
[09:29] <asac> and wading through irc logs is not nice :)
[09:29] <asac> gnomefreak: i searched on wiki for mozillateam meeting
[09:29] <gnomefreak> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Mozilla
[09:29] <asac> ah cool
[09:29] <asac> ok
[09:29] <asac> then all is fine :)
[09:30] <JenFraggle> there is a link to that page on the agenda page
[09:30] <gnomefreak> we done?
[09:30] <asac> JenFraggle: yes ... for me it read as if its just irc logs there .)
[09:30] <agoliveira> Sorry but I'm being stupid for missing the meeting or for being too early?
[09:30] <JenFraggle> asac: i was nosy and clicked
[09:30] <gnomefreak> agoliveira: what meeting?
[09:30] <asac> ok if we are done thanks all ... sorry for the a bit lengthy meeting ;)
[09:31] <gnomefreak> asac: we had it to use
[09:31] <asac> agoliveira: this is still mozilla meeting :)
[09:31] <hjmf> thanks all
[09:31] <agoliveira> Ah
[09:31] <asac> agoliveira: so no need to worry ;)
[09:31] <agoliveira> Ufs :)
[09:31] <asac> agoliveira: your brain is still intact :)
[09:31] <agoliveira> asac: No it's not. I'm feeling awful today and *my brain hurts!* ;)
[09:32] <asac> agoliveira: oh ;) ... maybe don't look at mobile screens only :-P
[09:32] <agoliveira> I wish ;)
[09:33] <asac> agoliveira: can i boot a hildon desktop easily in gutsy chroot now? i wanted to look at browser a bit :-D
[09:34] <agoliveira> asac: Yes. The packages are already there but some manual adjusts might be required. Let me get the doc... hold on.
[09:35] <agoliveira> asac: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/HildonDesktopManualProcedure
[09:35] <agoliveira> asac: Your milleage may vary but it worked for all of us so far.
[09:35] <asac> agoliveira: oh ... is that linked from main mobile page already?
[09:35] <asac> agoliveira: thanks ... will try ;)
[09:36] <asac> agoliveira: so at best a dedicated chroot?
[09:36] <agoliveira> asac: I don't know.
[09:36] <agoliveira> asac: Yes
[09:36] <asac> agoliveira: ok ... will try to use my existing one then :)
[09:36] <agoliveira> asac: I tried as chroot and as pure gutsy. All ok.
[09:37] <asac> agoliveira: ok if i run into problems i will ask on -mobile
[09:38] <agoliveira> asac: Cool. Just check to see if I'm *not* there :-D
[09:39] <agoliveira> asac: If you need a dedicated chroot, there is a package called project builder that does that for you.
[09:39] <asac> agoliveira: i will try to use one of my existing gutsy chroots first :9
[09:39] <agoliveira> asac: Should work.
[09:55] <pitti> hello everyone
[09:55] <BenC> hey pitti
[09:55] <fabbione> yo yo
[09:55] <amitk> hello
[09:55] <evand> hi
[09:56] <mvo> hi
[09:56] <dendrobates> hey
[09:56] <dholbach> hiya
[09:56] <mathiaz> hello
[09:58] <heno> hello
[09:58] <bryce> heya
[09:58] <kwwii> hi
[09:59] <Keybuk> shawarma, rtg__, calc, doko, Riddell: ping
[09:59] <stgraber> hey
[09:59] <dholbach> doko's at debconf, might be he's not around - I saw pictures of Riddell being there too
[09:59] <BenC> kernel team is accounted for, pkl and kylem are absent
[10:00] <keescook> hiya
[10:00] <Keybuk> BenC: rtg?
[10:00] <rtg__> pong
[10:00] <pitti> Keybuk: summoning powers?
[10:00] <Keybuk> dholbach: neither of them, to my knowledge, have requested conference leave or holiday
[10:01] <shawarma> o/
[10:01] <tkamppeter> hi
[10:01] <dholbach> Keybuk: doko's on the "Apologies" list
[10:01] <Riddell> hi Keybuk
[10:01] <Keybuk> dholbach: err, he isn't on my list?
[10:01] <dholbach> on the distro-team list meeting announce he was
[10:01] <Keybuk> ah
[10:01] <Keybuk> ok
[10:02] <pitti> hi kylem
[10:02] <kylem> hallo.
[10:02] <Keybuk> kylem: welcome
[10:02] <Keybuk> just calc missing then
[10:02] <kylem> i've kind of given up on the whole vacation thing.
[10:02] <pitti> kylem: finally some time to hack on the computer, right? :)
[10:02] <ogra> kylem, whats that thing you are tlaking about ?
[10:02] <dholbach> kylem: you're lucky mdz is not around: he chased seb128 out of IRC once ;-)
[10:02] <amitk> kylem: vacations are overrated anyways
[10:03] <Keybuk> /kick kylem go back to vacation, damnit
[10:03] <agoliveira> amitk: Should be, I'm without it for 5 years + now :(
[10:04] <Keybuk> ok
[10:04] <Keybuk> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelTeamMeeting20070621
[10:04] <Keybuk> let's get started
[10:05] <Keybuk> any additional agenda items from anyone?
[10:05] <fabbione> nope
[10:05] <heno> bug day schedule volunteers
[10:05] <heno> (already under other business)
[10:07] <Keybuk> #
[10:07] <Keybuk> C++ guru needed for bug 121461 (blocking inkscape merge) -- keescook
[10:07] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 121461 in glib2.0 "linking problem on i386 vs amd64" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/121461
[10:07] <keescook> this is in progress, it seems, and the glib and gtkmm folks are on it.
[10:07] <pitti> ah, the int vs. long issue?
[10:07] <keescook> it's breaking other things besides inkscape, but appears to be glib ABI breakage.  :(
[10:07] <calc> heh was great my first merge found a huge bug ;)
[10:07] <asac> keescook: great
[10:08] <keescook> yeah, all discovered because I was showing calc some merges with a "package I knew well and wouldn't have issues with" ha ha
[10:08] <calc> lol
[10:08] <fabbione> keescook: you win a biscuit
[10:08] <keescook> heh
[10:09] <pitti> this is tagged with tribe-2, is a fix until next Tuesday realistic?
[10:09] <bryce> congats calc :-)
[10:09] <keescook> I'm not sure.  dholbach do you know how quickly the glib folks tend to work?
[10:10] <dholbach> keescook: I'm sure this will be resolved quickly
[10:10] <pitti> this sounds like it could possibly affect lots of applications?
[10:10] <ogra> pfft ...
[10:10] <ogra> c++ only
[10:11] <dholbach> ogra: ....
[10:11] <dholbach> :)
[10:11] <keescook> yeah, though I'm still not 100% clear on which... is it just those that were recompiled, or will we actually see things crashing?
[10:11] <ogra> it will teach them to take python in the future HAHA !
[10:11] <keescook> ogra: it seems it's a glib ABI thing, so not just c++
[10:11] <dholbach> I didn't see crashes because of it yet, just ftbfs
[10:11] <keescook> okay, cool.
[10:12] <ogra> keescook, ouch
[10:12] <pitti> dholbach: sounds like pure luck then, always masking the higher 32 bits which are nonsense, or so :)
[10:13] <keescook> so, pitti, I'm not sure how to gauge the effect, but just instintively marked it tribe-2.  feel free to adjust it.
[10:13] <pitti> ok, so not being 'critical' seems to be justified then
[10:13] <shawarma> When is the Tribe-2 freeze anyway?
[10:14] <pitti> next Tuesday
[10:14] <Keybuk> shawarma: usually Tuesday
[10:14] <shawarma> Oh, ok.
[10:14] <pitti> I'll send a pre-announcement tomorrow
[10:14] <ogra> i'm not sure how the edubuntu CDs will look wrt ltsp ... the udeb isnt adjusted for the new ltsp stuff yet
[10:14] <ogra> and i had no time ot do a test install yet
[10:15] <Keybuk> ok
[10:15] <Keybuk> sounds like we have a hold on that one
[10:15] <Keybuk> PAM is very old (blocking at least AppArmor PAM module) -- keescook
[10:15] <Riddell> some stuff with new apt for adept still need juggling about but it whould be fine in time
[10:16] <keescook> there was discussion in Debian to get PAM up to 0.99 after Etch.  This hasn't happened yet, and blocks at least the AA pam module.
[10:16] <ogra> Riddell, btw since gutsy-changes doesnt work ... i added a kubuntu theme to the new ldm today :) would be nice to get some default icons for the menu functions
[10:16] <Riddell> ogra: ooh, will take a look
[10:16] <keescook> I've seen other mentions of other pam modules (ldap, etc) wanting 0.99, but I'm not sure what their state is.
[10:16] <pitti> ogra: oh, so it's not just me
[10:16] <keescook> does anyone else have any need for 0.99 PAM?
[10:17] <Keybuk> what's new about it?
[10:17] <mvo> Riddell: it seems like its working here locally, its just that xipian is blocking libept 0.5 afaics
[10:17] <pitti> keescook: TBH, that doesn't sound like a terribly good idea for tribe-2, unless we can be really sure to not break stuff?
[10:18] <keescook> pitti: sure, I didn't mean it for tribe2, I just wanted to bring it up for discussion.  should agenda items be limited to tribe-2 stuff?  i'm still new to the distro team.  :)
[10:18] <pitti> keescook: no, that's fine
[10:18] <keescook> Keybuk: it has a mess of additionally support utilities, headers, etc.  supposedly makes PAM modules easier to develop.
[10:19] <pitti> keescook: I just wasn't sure whether you meant 'upload the stuff tomorrow' :)
[10:19] <pitti> since this seems to be very intrusive, the best time would be right after tribe-2
[10:19] <keescook> yeah, no way, just curious if anyone had looked at PAM or needed 0.99 too.
[10:19] <pitti> for maximum testing exposure in gutsy without breaking the next alpha
[10:20] <Keybuk> pitti: though the point of the alpha is to get the maximum testing
[10:20] <shawarma> Keybuk: But surely only testing of things we're reasonably sure works?
[10:20] <Keybuk> otoh, it's hard to test things that won't build
[10:20] <calc> Keybuk: if pam breaks though can't test too much
[10:20] <pitti> Keybuk: right, but not exactly breaking it totally maybe?
[10:20] <shawarma> I'm guessing it'll take a while to merge a new pam package. I think I remember the ls of paches-applied/ was about an xterm full.
[10:21] <Riddell> mvo: that should be sorted now, maybe debtags needs given back so it can get installed
[10:21] <Keybuk> ok, sounds like we have a plan; keescook, can you put together a migration plan and post to ubuntu-devel if it's difficult; and a rationale of why we need it
[10:21] <shawarma> So getting it in before Tuesday is going to be a stretch. Getting it in *and* doing just a bit of testing before tribe is... not likely to happen, I think.
[10:21] <Keybuk> we can continue the yes/no discussion there easy enough
[10:21] <mvo> Riddell: ok, cool
[10:22] <Keybuk> Release readiness update -- pitti
[10:22] <keescook> Keybuk: okay, the rationale is not very high, that's why I wanted to bring it up -- it sounds like I'm the only one interested in it.  :P
[10:22] <pitti> so, there are still a couple of tribe-2 bugs
[10:22] <pitti> I have some questions about some of them
[10:22] <pitti> #109320: evms blocks access to disk devices: evms is in universe now, is this still critical/tribe2? if so, is anyone working on it?
[10:22] <Keybuk> I must admit, that I haven't touched either of my tribe-2 bugs
[10:23] <Keybuk> since we're still waiting on Upstream to finish playing
[10:23] <Keybuk> we need to somehow uninstall evms from people's machines who had it installed since warty
[10:23] <pitti> since we kicked it out, I guess we can remove the milestone, but I wanted to know whether anyone loves evms so much
[10:23] <keescook> if evms is in universe, and I go cripple xmms to get it into universe, that means we can lose gtk1 too.
[10:23] <Keybuk> tollef does, but he's not here, so let's move on quickly before he's summoned :p
[10:23] <Keybuk> keescook: WIN!
[10:24] <pitti> keescook: right, I wanted to ask about xmms, too :)
[10:24] <pitti> ok, I'll kick that then
[10:24] <pitti> related to this:
[10:24] <pitti> #105936: snapshot creation failure race "in use: not deactivating": keescook, you said that this doesn't happen any more? Keybuk, I understand that this is part of a major redesign work, so this might not actually happen for tribe-2?
[10:24] <Keybuk> pitti: it does happen, just verrrrrrry rarely
[10:24] <keescook> pitti: got time after meeting to discuss xmms?
[10:24] <Keybuk> and not on kees' computer
[10:24] <ogra> keswhat wuld you want to criplle on it ?
[10:24] <ogra> *cripple
[10:24] <pitti> keescook: yes, please let's
[10:24] <Keybuk> basically it only happens if I put a sleep (30) in one bit of code
[10:24] <Keybuk> but that's still not fixed enough for me
[10:24] <Keybuk> so yes, I plan to fix this harder
[10:24] <pitti> keescook: we have xmms2 in binary NEW, too :)
[10:24] <keescook> heh
[10:25] <Keybuk> pitti: oh, and I've asked mvo to ask seb to throw the compiz switch for tribe-2
[10:25] <pitti> Keybuk: but it doesn't sound OMG enough for me to tribe-2, unless you suddenly found a spare day to work on this? :-)
[10:25] <keescook> ogra: to get it into universe, I need to drop xmms-flac which is built from "flac", main.
[10:25] <Keybuk> just for fun
[10:25] <pitti> Keybuk: yeeeearrrgh
[10:25] <pitti> :)
[10:25] <keescook> ogra: so, basically, xmms loses flac file support
[10:26] <Keybuk> pitti: you'll like it :p
[10:26] <pitti> although, admittedly, compiz was *much* less evil yesterday (I tried it again)
[10:26] <keescook> ugh.  does compiz tell me my xterm size yet?
[10:26] <dholbach> apart from wnck and my terminal-shortcut it works nicely for me
[10:26] <mvo> yeah, repeat after me: compiz is good
[10:26] <pitti> I just couldn't resize windows on the window edges
[10:26] <Keybuk> keescook: yes, enable the resizeinfo plugin
[10:26] <Keybuk> mvo: in fact, that one should be on by default
[10:26] <keescook> \o/
[10:26] <shawarma> keescook: We could also be really evil and yank the headers out of xmms, put them in th flac package and put the binary package in universe, and be done with it?
[10:26] <mvo> keescook: there is a info plugin for this
[10:26] <Keybuk> (since it's new since we made the plugin list)
[10:27] <mvo> Keybuk: I can arrange this
[10:27] <Keybuk> dholbach: oh, my terminal shortcut worked just fine
[10:27] <Keybuk> after I fixed the terminal-command setting
[10:27] <keescook> shawarma: if that works, that's great.  I just didn't have any luck making that happen.
[10:27] <ogra> shawarma, thats what i thought
[10:27] <pitti> Keybuk: so, #105936 to tribe-3?
[10:27] <dholbach> Keybuk: aha?
[10:27] <Keybuk> pitti: please
[10:27] <pitti> #121441: mysql-server-5.0: "replace" binary man page is non-free: mathiaz, is that in the works?
[10:27] <Keybuk> and that is a big milestone <g>
[10:27] <shawarma> keescook: Oh, you tried that already? Hm.. I could give it a go at some point.
[10:28] <mathiaz> pitti: I filed a bug with debian
[10:28] <pitti> mathiaz: has it always been like that, or is this something new?
[10:28] <keescook> shawarma: well, I didn't try xmms headers into flac, but I tried flac into xmms.
[10:28] <mathiaz> pitti: the man pages also have the copyright notice
[10:28] <heno> pitti: just found that today
[10:28] <heno> affects feisty too
[10:28] <shawarma> keescook: Ah.. I think my approach is a lot easier.
[10:28] <pitti> mathiaz: so, as a temporary fix those could just be dropped?
[10:28] <heno> so we should look at an SRU
[10:28] <shawarma> keescook: And hence more likely to succeed. :)
[10:28] <bryce> Keybuk: will the switch include logic to not turn on where compiz won't be supported (fglrx?)
[10:28] <keescook> shawarma: agreed.
[10:28] <pitti> heno: right, except that we cannot really change the package in the release
[10:28] <mathiaz> pitti: well - that means shipping mysql without the man pages
[10:29] <Keybuk> bryce: if you can work with mvo to get that done in time
[10:29] <shawarma> mathiaz: Is it *all* man pages?
[10:29] <pitti> mathiaz: where did they come from in edgy?
[10:29] <mathiaz> shawarma: most of them
[10:29] <shawarma> ffs..
[10:29] <pitti> mathiaz: can we ship them at all? or just not under GPL?
[10:29] <mathiaz> pitti: they are not under GPL
[10:29] <shawarma> mathiaz: Not at all, I beliave.
[10:29] <shawarma> pitti: ^
[10:29] <ogra> mathiaz, split them out
[10:35] <pitti> mathiaz: right, I mean, are they redistributable in the first place?
[10:35] <shawarma> pitti: The license says you're not allowed to change them, afair.
[10:35] <heno> man mysql is non-GPL for example
[10:35] <ogra> mysql-doc and mysql-doc-nonfee
[10:35] <mathiaz> pitti: it'S the same reason why debian stopped shipping the manual
[10:35] <pitti> if so, then we could just ship it in multiverse
[10:35] <pitti> shawarma: ok, that's good enough for multiverse; so we are allowed to ship them unchanged
[10:35] <shawarma> pitti: Ah, right.
[10:35] <mathiaz> pitti: ok - so we could ship the man page in mysql-doc-nonfree
[10:35] <pitti> heno: that sounds too complex for an SRU TBH
[10:35] <heno> ok
[10:35] <pitti> mathiaz: right; want to look into that?
[10:35] <mathiaz> pitti: yop
[10:35] <pitti> mathiaz: thanks
[10:35] <pitti> #119075: Root password policy for mysql: shawarma, did you hear any progress from Debian about this? what's the status on this?
[10:35] <pitti> that one really worries me
[10:35] <pitti> shawarma: can we talk about it after the meeting in #u-devel?
[10:35] <shawarma> I haven't taken it up with the debian dudes, yet.
[10:35] <shawarma> pitti: Sure.
[10:35] <pitti> #112994: java plugin does not work: asac, you grabbed this, but bug trail makes it unclear whether it's firefox' or java's fault
[10:35] <asac> pitti: i just updated it
[10:35] <pitti> but it doesn't sound like being a real tribe-2 blocker
[10:35] <asac> pitti: and set to triaged
[10:35] <asac> pitti: its basically a drop of legacy mozilla-firefox folder(link) that causes this ... plugin links need to be readjusted
[10:35] <asac> pitti: i can do the upload ... but would like to ping doko first.
[10:35] <pitti> asac: if that patch is everything needed, it sounds it could make it to tribe-2 very well? especially since it's not on the CD?
[10:35] <asac> pitti: yes ... it should definitly be done for tribe-2
[10:35] <pitti> asac: thanks
[10:35] <pitti> #119341: glxinfo command causes Xorg to abort on Dimension E520: bryce, you milestoned this, but it does not seem a super urgent thing, since it is not even reproducible?
[10:35] <pitti> and (let's timeshare the channel a bit)
[10:35] <pitti> #118745: default desktop/panel menu font sizes too small; IMHO we should really revert the current hack of changing font sizes and revert to fixed 96 DPI until X is sorted out; dholbach, WDYT?
[10:35] <bryce> probably not
[10:35] <bryce> pitti: yeah I could not reproduce it, so need to investigate a bit more
[10:35] <fabbione_> sorry.. adsl did shake...
[10:35] <dholbach> pitti: I'd prefer to hear seb128 on that
[10:35] <bryce> there is an upstream bug I found with the same backtrace
[10:35] <pitti> bryce: it has an upstream bug, so let's just wait for upstream then? fine with moving the milestone?
[10:35] <bryce> yup
[10:36] <pitti> dholbach: ok, he'll be back tomorrow, right? #u-desktop tomorrow?
[10:36] <pitti> ok, thanks guys; sorry for being a nuisance
[10:37] <pitti> Keybuk: I'm done
[10:37] <Keybuk> good-o
[10:37] <dholbach> pitti: yep
[10:37] <Keybuk> heno: Schedule developers for the next few Bug Days: UbuntuBugDay/Schedule
[10:37] <heno> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/Schedule
[10:37] <shawarma> I'm planning on putting out a call for server bug triaging, so I'll probably be hanging out there.
[10:38] <pitti> heno: it would be nice to mention the bug day's topic/focus there, so that we can subscribe when we actually have some competency to weigh in
[10:38] <shawarma> Where server bugs means "bugs in apache, mysql, openssh and that sort of thing".
[10:38] <heno> shawarma: cool, just pick a day and sign up
[10:38] <heno> pitti: suggestions are welcome
[10:38] <heno> I'd rather do it the other way around
[10:39] <shawarma> Oh, the bug days are specialised nowadays?
[10:39] <pitti> right
[10:39] <heno> that those who want to join can pick the topic
[10:39] <pitti> makes sense
[10:39] <shawarma> Wicked. Sign me up for Wednesday.
[10:39] <heno> shawarma: they don't have to be
[10:39] <heno> looks like we have a topic for next week :)
[10:40] <shawarma> \o/
[10:40] <bdmurray> maybe each mentor could pick a query of bugs to work on?
[10:40] <heno> mathiaz: can you make it then as well?
[10:40] <mathiaz> heno: no. I'll be offline that day.
[10:40] <mathiaz> heno: (travelling)
[10:40] <heno> ah, ok
[10:41] <dendrobates> I'll be there Wednesday.
[10:42] <heno> dendrobates: cool, so that's well covered
[10:42] <heno> ok, everyone knows the URL now, feel free to sign up later
[10:42] <Keybuk> ok, cool
[10:42] <Keybuk> any other business for today?
[10:42] <Riddell> Keybuk: could you give back debtags
[10:43] <Keybuk> I don't have buildd access these days
[10:43] <mvo> There are still some open merges left and today debianimportfreeze
[10:43] <Keybuk> there are, but the number of open merges is low enough not to worry I think
[10:43] <Keybuk> we've never hit zero
[10:43] <pitti> Riddell: I can
[10:43] <mvo> ok
[10:43] <Keybuk> if anyone wants to pick them up and do them, that's ok
[10:43] <calc> i'm working on merges as well
[10:43] <Keybuk> but we seem to be in a pretty good shape ABI-wise
[10:44] <calc> need some done for my motu app
[10:44] <ogra> does anyone know anything about the status of gutsy-changes ?
[10:44] <Keybuk> ogra: dunno
[10:44] <calc> mvo: i'm primarily working on universe merges right now though
[10:44] <ogra> i pinged in #c-sysadmin but got no answer ... seems there were no mails since yesterday night 0:30 UTC
[10:45] <Keybuk> that sounds very much like an LP change
[10:45] <Keybuk> did the magic mail headers change, I wonder
[10:45] <pitti> ogra: I pinged Celso, but was directed to the list masters
[10:45] <Keybuk> that's about the time they did the rollout
[10:45] <pitti> changelog-closes-bugs is broken as well, I filed a bug
[10:46] <ogra> seems there were two rejeted mails from gutsy-changes-owner to -motu
[10:46] <ogra> this afternoon ...
 pitti: ouch, source are being escaped from closing-bug-code because they are being published in upload-time ...
[10:46] <pitti> whatever that means
[10:46] <shawarma> :) YEs that sounds a bit cryptic.
[10:47] <bdmurray> pitti: is the changelog-closes-bugs being broken worth announcing?  will may bugs not get closed due to changes.
[10:47] <pitti> bdmurray: https://bugs.launchpad.net/soyuz/+bug/121606, FYI
[10:47] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 121606 in soyuz "changelog-closes-bugs does not work any more since today's rollout" [Critical,Triaged] 
[10:47] <pitti> bdmurray: hm, indeed, sending it to u-d-a@ cannot hurt
[10:48] <shawarma> Does anyone know why we still keep the kbd-chooser source package?
[10:48] <shawarma> (It's in universe)
[10:48] <pitti> Riddell: debtags is dependency wait, nothing to give back
[10:49] <bryce> shawarma: wouldn't surprise me if it's just legacy
[10:49] <Riddell> pitti: ok, that should be sorted out now but maybe something is still holding it back, I'll work it out
[10:49] <pitti> Missing Dependencies:  	libept-dev (>= 0.5.2)
[10:49] <pitti> libept-dev | 0.4.7ubuntu2 |         gutsy | amd64, i386, ia64, powerpc, sparc
[10:50] <shawarma> bryce: Possibly. It hasn't been touched since edgy.
[10:50] <Riddell> pitti: ept was waiting on xapian, which I promoted to main today
[10:50] <Riddell> maybe I did the promotion wrong
[10:50] <Keybuk> ok, we're wandering around other topics now; so let's adjourn and let those who don't want to stay up and play leave
[10:50] <Keybuk> thanks all
[10:50] <pitti> right
[10:50] <bryce> cya!
[10:50] <pitti> cheers to all
[10:50] <asac> thanks all
[10:50] <dholbach> thanks all
[10:50] <kwwii> thanks
[10:50] <mvo> good night!
[10:50] <mathiaz> thks. see ya.
[10:50] <dendrobates> bye-eee
[10:51] <agoliveira> bye all.
[10:51] <heno> 'night
[10:51] <asac> night
[10:51] <pitti> libxapian-dev |    1.0.1-1 |         gutsy | amd64, i386, ia64, powerpc, sparc
[10:51] <pitti> Riddell: ^ that looks fine
[10:51] <evand> shawarma: iirc cjwatson just hasn't gotten around to dealing with it.
[10:51] <mvo> could someone with archive-admin powers check compizconfig-settings-manager in binary NEW please?
[10:51] <pitti> Riddell: libept built everywhere except sparc
[10:51] <pitti> mvo: can do
[10:52] <shawarma> evand: Well, since it was demoted to universe in the good ol'e edgy days, it can't possibly be in use in the installer.. What else could possibly have any use for it?
[10:52] <evand> we don't have any use for it
[10:52] <mvo> thanks pitti
[10:53] <shawarma> evand: Hm... Oh, maybe there's something in the seed changelog.
[10:55] <shawarma> "remove kbd-chooser from installer (superseded by console-setup)"
[10:55] <evand> indeed
[10:55] <ogra> tha was feisty already, wasnt it ?
[10:56] <shawarma> Edgy
[10:56] <shawarma> :)
[10:56] <ogra> ah, even older :)
[10:56] <shawarma> Time flies when you're having fun.
[10:56] <ogra> heh, yes