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bspencer_agoliveira, thx12:38
agoliveirabspencer_: My pleasure dude! BTW, are any of you going to the LinuxWorld Conference and Expo in SF? There will be a mobile track there.12:40
tkoIMO hildon-desktop shouldn't depend on sapwood.. it might depend on any "hildon compatible" theme. if the theme uses sapwood the that theme needs to depend on gtk2-engines-sapwood12:40
agoliveiratko: That's an interesting idea. Tool bad I have no idea how to package this :P but we can plan something.12:41
tkoagoliveira: we have our theme dependency in higher level metapackage12:42
agoliveiratko: Yes. I meant that I have no idea if we would keep this way or do it diferently.12:43
tkoI'm remembering a discussion we had internally and I think we should probably add a virtual hildon-theme dependency and let plankton and other theme packages provide it12:44
tkobut then again, it's just cosmetics...12:45
Mithrandirif hildon-desktop needs a theme (but doesn't care which) add a depends on sapwood | hildon-theme and have sapwood (and any other themes) provide hildon-theme.12:48
tkosapwood is just the engine12:52
agoliveiraMithrandir: I think that mix sapwood with the theme is not a good idea.01:02
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jacob_BenC,  i created /srv/kernel.ubuntu.com/git/jpan9/jpan9-git-tree.git, but i got error trying to push my changes01:17
jacob_BenC, the error is error: remote 'refs/heads/origin' is not a strict subset of local ref 'refs/heads/origin'. maybe you are not up-to-date and need to pull first?01:18
BenCjacob_: how did you create jpan9-git-tree on zinc?01:19
jacob_following the KernelGitGuide01:19
BenCjacob_: Are you trying to push your local Linus based tree to it?01:19
BenCor is your local tree based on our gutsy tree?01:19
jacob_git-clone -l -n -s /srv/kernel.ubuntu.com/git/ubuntu/ubuntu-gutsy.git01:20
jacob_yes, it is. i did a pull01:20
BenCNo, I mean the tree you are pushing from01:20
jacob_jacob@putvin:~/localDev/ubuntu/ubuntu-gutsy$ git pull ssh://jpan9@kernel.ubuntu.com/srv/kernel.ubuntu.com/git/jpan9/jpan9-git-tree.git01:20
jacob_Already up-to-date.01:20
BenCah, so you cloned, pulled, committed changes, and are trying to push?01:20
BenCwell, I mean you cloned on zinc, cloned that locally, committed, and then push01:21
jacob_the only glich might be i cloned from our local copy that rob created, 01:21
BenCah, that's it01:21
jacob_before i got access to zinc01:21
BenCgit-fetch origin; git-rebase origin01:21
BenCI rebase to Linux tree every so often (soon to be on a schedule)01:22
BenCso it throws off the history01:22
BenCnot sure how your tree is, but might have to use full URI: git-fetch zinc.ubuntu.com:/srv/kernel.ubuntu.com/git/ubuntu/ubuntu-gutsy master:ubuntu-gutsy; git-rebase ubuntu-gutsy01:24
jacob_let me try01:24
jacob_still have the same problem01:28
jacob_jacob@putvin:~/localDev/ubuntu/ubuntu-gutsy$ git-fetch jpan9@zinc.ubuntu.com:/srv/kernel.ubuntu.com/git/ubuntu/ubuntu-gutsy master:ubuntu-gutsy;01:28
jacob_jacob@putvin:~/localDev/ubuntu/ubuntu-gutsy$ git-rebase ubuntu-gutsy01:28
jacob_Current branch master is up to date.01:28
jacob_jacob@putvin:~/localDev/ubuntu/ubuntu-gutsy$ git push ssh://jpan9@kernel.ubuntu.com/srv/kernel.ubuntu.com/git/jpan9/jpan9-git-tree.git01:28
jacob_error: remote 'refs/heads/origin' is not a strict subset of local ref 'refs/heads/origin'. maybe you are not up-to-date and need to pull first?01:28
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BenChmm..how can it be up-to-date and not be a subset :/01:28
BenCoh, it's only complaining about origin01:29
jacob_for got to pull again, so the push works now. thanks01:30
MithrandirBenC: can you be around for an update on the mobile kernel, tomorrow, at 1600 UTC?01:33
BenCMithrandir: luckily that happens to be an hour before I have 3 catch-up calls with kernel team01:43
BenCMithrandir: this channel?01:43
BenCOh, wait, tomorrow is Thu01:43
BenCok, still open01:43
MithrandirBenC: yes, as in about 16 hours.01:44
Mithrandirgreat, thanks.01:44
BenCI'll invite amit too01:44
Mithrandirupdate as in, I'd like an update on what's happening there, particularly with the spec.01:44
MithrandirKyle is the drafter, but he's on VAC01:44
BenCamit is supposed to be taking things over, but I've talked to kyle a bit and should have some info for you01:45
Mithrandirok, thanks.01:45
BenCMithrandir: damnit, my head is mis calculating UTC to local...I have an engineering call tomorrow with a vendor at 16:00 UTC02:00
Mithrandircan you get amitk up to speed and ask him to attend on behalf of the kernel team then?02:01
BenCMithrandir: I'll email status to amit and let him present02:01
BenCI can still sit in and try to answer while on the phone02:01
Mithrandirif you could, that'd be great02:02
bspenceragoliveira: Mithrandir, tko :  but the point Mithrandir made is a good one.  Have the theme pkg provide hildon-theme02:14
bspencerand hildon-desktop dependsd on hildon-theme02:14
bspencerthe plankton pkg would have the sapwood dependency02:14
bspencer(plankton being a nokia default theme)02:15
Mithrandiryou want to have hildon-desktop depend on plankton-theme | hildon-theme though so it knows a reasonable default02:17
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agoliveiraas a reasonable default, I agree.02:21
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bspencerMithrandir, agoliveira :  sure, until we have the MID-Ubuntu theme done.02:42
bspenceror whatever.02:42
Mithrandirsure, at that point we can flip the default02:44
agoliveiraOk, deal.02:47
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bspencertko: moimart can you confirm that the latest svn is: http://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/branches/maemo-af-desktop/hildon-desktop/ ?03:09
bspenceragoliveira: where do we pull from for the hildon-1-0 pkg?03:10
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bspencer(bob's IP adder)03:19
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bspencercredit card number:  3234 2311 4444 212203:20
Mithrandirbspencer: is your question about where to pull from where launchpad pulls from or what URL you should us to get the bzr checkout of what's in hildon-1-0?03:20
bspencerMithrandir: I am working on adding new functionality to libhildondesktop03:21
bspencerI was working off source from maemo svn03:21
bspencerbut wanted to be sure I was working on the tip.  Then I was curious where we pull our source from.03:21
Mithrandirwe have branched off their trunk at some point, but will regularly resynchronise with their trunk.03:22
bspencerhow does the normal process work in this regard?03:22
bspencerI assume I send them my code, then ubuntu syncs now and then 03:22
Mithrandirthat's one way to do it, yes.03:22
bspencerbut maybe I should be making changes to ubuntu code, then push it to them later03:23
Mithrandiror you could develop it in a bzr branch03:23
Mithrandirlibhildondesktop is in hildon-desktop, right?03:23
bspencerMithrandir: I like that.  It means that my changes don't have to be accepted by Nokia immediately03:23
agoliveirabspencer: That would be the better way I guess.03:23
agoliveiraMithrandir: Insomnia striking today? :)03:24
bspencerI think that libhildon-1-dev contains the "hildon-desktop" code.03:24
Mithrandiragoliveira: nah, debconf.  Hacking. :-)03:24
agoliveiraGuys, I'm leaving. See you tomorrow;03:25
Mithrandiragoliveira: something vaguely related to -mobile even; not necessary yet, but certainly for mobile stuff: exclusion support for dpkg.03:25
Mithrandirsee you, Adilson03:25
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bspencermoimart, you around?09:09
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amitkrobr: Could you please check your patches with ./scripts/checkpatch.pl in the kernel directory, fix and repost them?12:34
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ian_brasilis there a meeting here soon..i am sure i remeber 16:00 today but could be wrong?05:23
Mithrandiryou are correct05:24
Mithrandir1600 UTC05:24
Mithrandirso in about 36 minutes05:24
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ian_brasilok...i am not imagining things then, great05:26
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Mithrandirhm, so who are here already?05:57
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=== agoliveira grumbles - I'm really need a good night sleep today!
Mithrandiragoliveira: you and me both.  3.5 hours after a night of hacking isn't enough05:59
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agoliveirakwwii: Yo! How's the flight back?05:59
agoliveiraNo Intel people around? I know Bob is logged in.06:00
Mithrandirhaven't seen them today.06:01
kwwiiagoliveira: long but not too bad06:01
agoliveirakwwii: Same.06:01
kwwiiagoliveira: no customs problems? :-)06:01
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Mithrandirhi Charles06:03
agoliveirakwwii: No. I just passed trough. But I was well in the allowance anyway.06:03
agoliveirakwwii: Not counting the watch, of course :P06:03
kwwiihehe, sweet - I picked up a camera in the meantime06:04
|moimart|im here :)06:04
cfjHi - This is Charlie Johnson from Intel.  Tollef misidentified me in his agenda.06:04
Mithrandircfj: oops, apologies.06:04
Mithrandircfj: seen Bob and the others yet?06:04
cfjThey don't site close to me, so I haven't seen them06:04
agoliveirakwwii: I knew you wouldn't resist :)06:04
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cfjAre we expecting Tollef to be on to walk thru the agenda?06:06
agoliveiraYes, I guess so.06:06
agoliveiraTollef: Need any help?06:07
MithrandirI'm waiting a little bit to see if Bob and Rusty shows up06:07
agoliveiraAh, ok.06:07
Mithrandiroh well, we'll start now and they can chime in later.06:07
Mithrandir- Hildon packaging update (Tollef Fog Heen/Adilson Oliveira)06:07
Mithrandir- Flash image creation (Rusty )06:07
Mithrandir- Kernel and hardware support (Ben Collins)06:07
Mithrandir- UI, utilities (Bob Spencer)06:07
Mithrandir- Graphics (Charlie Spencer)06:07
Mithrandir- Build infrastructure (Tollef Fog Heen)06:07
Mithrandir- GNOME components (Bob Spencer)06:07
Mithrandir- Ownerless specs: - UI guide - Browser - Media player UI - Hardware media decoding - USB client - Development environment06:07
Mithrandir- Goals for the next week06:07
agoliveiraFine to me.06:08
Mithrandiranybody got any additions to the agenda?06:08
cfjYes - MID Wireless Device Support & Kernel Patches for Thermal optimizations06:09
agoliveiraI also would like Intel rep to talk about the devices a bit, just to let the others know the current situation.06:10
agoliveiraIf there is any new, of course.06:10
cfjWhich type of devices?06:10
cfjOr do you mean platforms?06:10
agoliveiraSorry, platforms...06:10
cfjI can do that.06:10
Mithrandirok, let's get started then.06:11
MithrandirAdilson, can you give us an update on the current state of the hildon packages?06:11
Mithrandir(relative to two weeks ago)06:11
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rustyI totally spaced on the Thursday morning irc meeting thing06:12
ian_brasilsorry...some talk about docs would be good too if there is time06:12
Mithrandirrusty: my fault, I was supposed to send the mail a bit earlier, but debconf foiled me.06:12
Mithrandirian_brasil: good point.06:12
Mithrandirrusty: any idea if Bob's showing up?06:13
agoliveiraWe were able to put all the bits and pieces on the repository to one can use thme on Gutsy. There is a bugs yet but as a first set of packages is fine. I have being trying to reorganize them but it is just not feasible to mess this around right now. I fixing the -dev packages and will have it done probably today yet.06:13
rustyI bet he forgot... I have email from him till 2 in the morning06:13
rustyHas anyone tried to root cause the bug where clicking on the menu icon will crash hildon-desktop?06:14
Mithrandiragoliveira: that sounds like great progress.  So you can run a hildon desktop now and have applications display on it?06:14
agoliveiraYes :)06:14
agoliveiraSince last week actually.06:14
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Mithrandirthat's great; it should unblock the intel people who want to build stuff using hildon too, I hope.06:15
feruloagoliveira: is there any packaging stuff in hildon bits that should be considered to be merged upstream?06:15
rustyMithrandir, yes, we are good for app development06:15
Mithrandiragoliveira: what's left before we can consider the initial sprint for packages done?06:16
agoliveiraferulo: Right now, I guess not.06:16
Mithrandirferulo: probably all of it, I'd say.06:16
Mithrandirmore or less.06:16
rustyMithrandir, but we do have a nasty bug where the desktop crashes when you click on the icon that should provide the application menu06:16
agoliveiraI would prefer to mature it abit yet. 06:16
Mithrandirrusty: sounds like something that should be fairly easy to track down using valgrind.06:17
ferulook, so do you plan to submit bugs upstream or pointing us to relevant changes? or should we track your bzr repos?06:17
agoliveiraMithrandir: With the dev packages working, I think we are ok for a first round.06:17
Mithrandiragoliveira: ok, good.06:17
rustyMithrandir, Horace (in Shanghi) was attempting to track it down last night. 06:17
Mithrandirferulo: I think we want to submit it as bugs upstream, but if you would rather track bzr that would of course make it even easier for us.06:18
rustyMithrandir, i think with the gtk update from mid-last week, we dropped the a gtk patch that we depend on that allows custom file picker dialog windows06:18
Mithrandirhmm, ok.06:18
Mithrandirwe need to fix that06:18
Mithrandiragoliveira: can you check whether it's still there, and if not, talk to Daniel or Seb to get it back again?06:19
agoliveiraMithrandir: Sure.06:19
Mithrandiranybody got anything more about the packaging update?  If not, we'll proceed to flash image creating06:20
Mithrandircreation, even06:20
agoliveiraMithrandir: IIRC, it is there yet but I'll double check it.06:20
rustyagoliveira, are you talking about the gtk patch?06:20
rustyagoliveira, if the patch is there then we have a new bug that you can reproduce by attempting to open any file picker06:21
rustyagoliveira, for example... open the dialog to set the background and pick the "browse" button, and watch hildon-desktop crash06:21
Mithrandirok, that needs to be fixed.06:22
rustyit's just that the bug showed up the first time i created a new chroot that used the new gtk06:22
agoliveirarusty: I'll see that as soon as we finish here.06:22
Mithrandirrusty: can you give us an update on the image creation tools?06:22
Mithrandirthe spec's still drafting, what's missing there?06:22
Mithrandirhmm, all of it, it seems. :-P06:23
rustyi'm behind on writting the spec06:23
rustybut the code is up in bzr06:23
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Mithrandirhi Bob06:23
|moimart|rusty: if the problem is in the hildon filechooser hildon-desktop can use gtkfilechooser06:23
rustylast week i created a new project called 'project-builder'06:23
Mithrandirrusty: when do you think you can have the spec written up by?  Do you need help with it?06:23
bspencermoimart, glad you are around 06:23
rustyMithrandir, i planed on finishing it this week... i just need to make myself finish it06:24
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bspencermoimart, I sent you a reply with all the info I could think of to be useful06:24
Mithrandirrusty: ok, good.  Anything you need from anybody else for that to happen?06:24
|moimart|bspencer: ill have a look06:25
rustyMithrandir, i think i'm good... as soon as I push another fix this morning then the tool can create images that boot on a samsung q1 ultra06:25
rustywell... other then i need to add a new package that contains the specific samsung configuration06:25
bspencerrusty, did you figure out the touchscreen config?06:26
Mithrandirrusty: that's really good news.06:26
rustybspencer, no, i'm still having problems configuring the touchscreen06:26
rustythe new samsung device has some challenges... like a usb camera that doesn't seem to have a driver yet06:27
rustyand the wireless is the Atheros AR5006X... i'm not sure if a driver exist for that just yet06:27
bspencerwireless connectivity is overrated06:27
bspencereverybody is pugging in these days06:27
agoliveiraIsnst' this Atheros AR5006X the same as the macbooks?06:28
rustyI'm not sure... i haven't had time to investigate06:28
agoliveiraIf it is, there's drivers.06:29
cfjRusty - Any update from Mauri as to when Q1 Ultras will ship to Canonical?06:29
cfjI keep hearing next week for the last 3 weeks.06:29
rustyWe are got our first delivery of a few systems, and some more are starting to trickle in06:30
rustyWe are looking into the right way to ship these devices without having the recipients having to pick up the import tax06:31
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rustyso far... at the very least we will ship to a site in the specific location, and then reship domestic06:31
cfjShipping knows how to do this.  We shipped stuff to Tungsten Graphics all the time.  (i.e. Alan is in the UK.)06:31
rustycfj, you mean where we pickup the tax?06:32
Mithrandirit seems like the image builder is having good progress, so I suggest we move onto the kernel and hardware support, as well as MID wireless device support & kernel patches for thermal optimisations.06:33
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Mithrandirand while I'm looking forward to getting my hand on a device, we can handle that after the meeting?06:33
cfjIt has to do with how you designate the device.  Something like claiming it is a prototype.  06:33
cfjI can ask around to find out the details.  06:33
MithrandirBenC,amitk: kernel update?06:34
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amitkmithrandir: right. So there are two components06:34
amitkthe UME kernel configuration and the actual LPIA patches06:34
amitkthe kernel configuration is being worked on by Kyle who is on vacation this week.06:35
jacob-laptopamitk: hi, i put my git repo at /srv/kernel.ubuntu.com/git/jpan9/jpan9-git-tree.git06:35
amitkI hope to start working with him when he is back06:35
agoliveiraamitk: When is this?06:36
amitkcoming the the patches... jacob-laptop: I looked at those.06:36
amitkagoliveira: next week if I understood benc correctly06:37
Mithrandiragoliveira: he'll be back Monday, I suspect, he's here at Debconf06:37
agoliveiraOh, fine.06:37
cfjHow does it look getting the patches into the kernel for CD#2 at the end of the month?06:37
Mithrandirwhat needs doing for the spec to be approved?06:37
amitkjacob-laptop: could you go over https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelGitGuide and clean up the patches accordingly06:37
Mithrandircfj: we'd need the patches this week, the latest.06:38
BenCTribe-2 has a deadline of Tue06:38
BenCand I'm not sure we can make that, but we'll try06:38
amitkMore specifically, read the Patch acceptance criteria06:38
cfjJacob - What else needs to happen.  We've had these patches for a bit?06:38
BenCbad part about the kernel is we have 3-4 dependent packages that have to be compiled behind it, so we need more lead time to do the upload than other packages06:39
agoliveiraexcuse me for one minute: someone is ringging... let me kick he/she out!06:40
cfjWhat's the minimum to allow it to boot & Run on a Menlow ??  (PATA, LPC, SMBUS ??)06:40
jacob-laptopi will do the clean up and some fixes, this was the initial version did in a hurry. 06:40
amitkjacob-laptop: thanks06:40
jacob-laptopdon't need any patch to boot.06:40
jacob-laptopbut using pata patch will let you boot faster06:40
Mithrandiramitk: do you know if Kyle needs anything to complete the spec, or if it's just blocked on time?06:41
jacob-laptopit enables DMA06:41
cfjPATA, not a USB drive.06:41
=== agoliveira is back
amitkmithrandir: I don't. But i think it was time.06:42
MithrandirI can prod him gently when I see him next.06:42
cfjSo again, is there anything else Intel needs to do for these core chipset patches ??  Is just Ubuntu/Canonical processing at this point?06:42
jacob-laptopthere is no patch for ECHI USB06:43
agoliveiraMithrandir: Good idea... he's about twice your size :)06:43
cfjWe don't have to wait for that. (EHCI)06:44
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Mithrandircfj: you had an item about wireless device support and kernel patches for thermal optimisations.  What is there to say about them?06:45
jacob-laptopcfj: we will continue developing patches for the chipset. No EHCI patch afaik.06:45
amitkjacob-laptop: Do you have a time estimate on the reworked patches?06:46
jacob-laptopCurrently, those patches are only distributed to Ubuntu.06:46
jacob-laptopamitk: if you refer to the clean up, i can do it today.06:47
cfjMithrandir: I can take the wireless and thermal topic to email.  I'd rather address graphics today.  06:47
jacob-laptopamitk: other than commit template what else should i do?06:48
Mithrandirjacob-laptop: I'm putting you up as responsible for cleaning up the patches so they are suitable for Ubuntu06:48
Mithrandirjacob-laptop: ok?06:48
cfjSo again - Does Canonical need anything more from Intel as far as the core chipset patches ??  06:49
amitkjacob-laptop: actually, _before_ the template, you need to cleanup whitespace. Run the patches through the scripts mentioned on the link above06:49
jacob-laptopMithrandir: ok. i will make sure patches follow the UbuntuKernelGuide06:49
Mithrandiramitk: can you answer cfj's question?06:50
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amitkcfj: if nothing else is required for boot, then nothing else is required from Intel. BenC might be able to correct me here...06:51
Mithrandirthen I suggest we move on to UI and utilities; Bob?06:51
bspencera quick status from last week06:51
bspencerperhaps you already discussed, sorry I was late06:52
Mithrandirwhat's the status, do you need help for getting the specs through to approved?06:52
bspencerwe had a productive meeting with Nokia, which helped a lot06:52
Mithrandirno, we didn't.06:52
bspencerduring the Desktop Architects meeting at googleplex06:52
bspencerI think for Hildon framework, most packages are in repo and working06:52
=== agoliveira sighs remembering the food...
bspenceralthough I think the -dev packages aren't quite there.06:52
bspencerat least I can't install hildon-desktop-dev yet 06:53
cfjMithrandir: I have to bail out of the meeting at the top of the hour.  I can include graphics in my email with the other topics. 06:53
agoliveirabspencer: Right, being taken care.06:53
bspenceragoliveira, said he would work on this a little this week, iirc06:53
Mithrandircfj: ok, thanks.06:53
bspencerwrt the specs, I am delinquent but will repent06:53
bspencerI have the information for at least the main UI and have shared this with Ken and others, but need to update the site06:53
Mithrandirok, good.06:54
bspencerutilities -- we should discuss06:54
bspencernot sure exactly what that entails, aside from getting the control panel and status bar working06:54
bspencerand writing some "how-to-create-a-plugin" documentation06:54
bspencerbut I will work on that too.06:54
agoliveirabspencer: About those docs you have being writting with Moises. Are you going to put it up?06:54
bspencermainly they are just API description and a UML chart.06:54
bspencerand whatever I think I've learned.06:55
Mithrandirthat's a good start06:55
bspencerI try to get these in by Monday evening.06:55
bspencer(not sure what the deadline is other than asap)06:55
bspencerthat's all I have, unless there are questions.06:56
Mithrandirwell, before we have the specs approved, we don't actually have a project plan, which is slightly problematic wrt an agreement between Canonical and Intel.06:56
Mithrandiras well as being problematic since we don't know what we need to do and have the tools we need to use for plannig06:56
|moimart|bspencer: it would be good to have those docs, because the releasing of our documentation is still open06:56
bspencerMithrandir, good point.06:56
bspencermoimart, ok.06:57
cfjWe should discuss project plan -  A separate working meeting on that topic be good.06:57
Mithrandirthe specs are really the project plan06:58
Mithrandirok, Charlie has to go, so we'll skip the Graphics item on the agenda and move on to Build infrastructure.06:59
cfjWe need to talk about actually schedules.  When we expect the various items in the specs to be integrated.   At least have targets.06:59
tkobtw, we're slowly collecting ideas for hildon roadmap at http://live.gnome.org/Hildon/Roadmap .. if you have some ideas, especially if you're considering doing things yourself, feel free to add them there. we can then have a roadmap discussion at some point on hildon-list06:59
Mithrandircfj: ok, we can meet up early next week to discuss that?06:59
bspencertko, thanks for the heads-up.  we might like to propose something with our marquee (panel) and maybe an additional widget or two (off the top of my head).07:00
cfjI have to do: Two last comments : HW Media Accel and USB Client should be owned by me. (Charlie Johnson) and yes we can meet early next week.07:00
MithrandirI don't really have anything to report wrt build infrastructure, I've been on vacation and therefore haven't prodded the relevant people.  Prodding will resume shortly and we should have a beginning archive by next week, I hope.07:00
Mithrandircfj: ok, thanks for your time. :-)07:00
agoliveiraBye cfj07:00
Mithrandirwhich brings us back to Bob again, on the GNOME components.07:01
|moimart|bspencer: having open plugins is a very good idea as i told you07:01
Mithrandirbspencer: the spec here is also empty; do you have a plan to share with us which can go into the spec?07:01
bspencermoimart, sure.  07:02
bspencerMithrandir, the spec was intended to describe what parts of Gnome mobile we would want to include in the distribution07:02
bspencerat this point I only know of the components that are needed by specific applications07:02
bspencernot sure if just includig all gnome mobile is desirable07:03
bspenceror if we take it an application at a time -- just including what they really need.07:03
bspencerbut that may be the work of someone creating a product, not the distribution07:03
bspencerso I can write this spec quickly, just saying that it will have the gnome mobile components and include a picture from gnome.org/mobile07:03
tkobspencer: I was just about to say that depends on whether you're producing a platform or product07:03
bspencercomments? 07:03
bspencertko, agreed.07:04
bspencerthis brings up a bigger question which is who/when do we decide what is part of this distribution?07:04
MithrandirI've always had the impression of us being a platform more than just a product.07:05
agoliveira... and so being able to be multiple products, etc07:06
ian_brasilMithrandir: some of the recent feedback/e-mails to the list seem to back this up too07:06
MithrandirI'm happy by basically deferring the decision to GMAE and pick their components and whatever extras we need07:07
Mithrandirdoes that sound good?07:07
bspencerit is the best we can do today.07:07
bspencerand we can adjust it as need dictates07:07
Mithrandirok, can you write up the spec with that as the basis?07:08
Mithrandirany more on GNOME components?  If not, we'll move on to documentation.07:08
Mithrandirian_brasil: the floor is yours. :-)07:08
ian_brasilwell i just wanted to find out about the best way to document things07:09
ian_brasilif there is something planned or not07:09
ian_brasilI have just been documenting things in an ad-hoc way so far 07:09
rustywhat kind of documentation are we talking about?07:10
ian_brasilso some planning will help for sure07:10
ian_brasilwell for example there was some interest in pyphantom07:10
ian_brasilso i documeted the source code07:10
ian_brasilbasically API documentation and user guides 07:11
ian_brasilbut more importantly how can it be done in a uniform way07:12
ian_brasilusing as much available infrastructure as possible07:12
Mithrandirit sounds like something that should be taken upstream, so going with maemo prefers to use for API docs07:13
rustyI can definitely see a bunch of ad-hoc documentation written making it hard for people to find what they are looking for07:14
rustylike... what's up with this Samsung Q1 Ultra, what works, who is tackling what, etc.07:15
ian_brasilrusty: well it is sort of like this now...i just write up what takes my fancy basically which is good for me but maybe not for the whole UME07:15
Mithrandiryeah, though that's less about API docs and more about end-user docs, or developer docs07:15
agoliveiraend-user docs? Product docs?07:16
rustywhatever the docs, i do recognizes from past projects that this could snow ball into a mass of random documents making it pretty unusable07:17
Mithrandiryes, I think we want to make sure we avoid that07:17
=== ian_brasil nods vigorously
rustyian_brasil, so are you thinking on the lines of a structured ubuntu-mobile guide?07:18
ian_brasilwell something like that yes07:18
MithrandirI say just go for it; what do you need from the rest of us?07:19
rustyif we had that, then for the upstream API documentation we could at least have a standard way of linking to the upstream documentaion (be it gnome, maemo, etc)07:19
Mithrandirsounds like a plan to me.07:20
Mithrandirian_brasil: agreed?  Can you write that up as a spec?07:20
ian_brasilwell....i would like to use the django comment system for building the actual docs07:20
ian_brasilas it is so easy to get other peoples input07:21
ian_brasilbut some help with the structure as well07:21
ian_brasillike what exactly to document07:21
MithrandirI'm not familiar with it.07:21
rustyis it http://www.djangoproject.com/ ?07:21
ian_brasilno the django book...i put something here http://proddingthe.net/ as an experiment07:23
ian_brasilthis is the django book code07:23
ian_brasiland it allows you to comment on individual parts within a chapter07:24
MithrandirI suggest you raise it on the list and try to get people to contribute there; While I absolutely agree we need docs, I'm not sure what more we can get done in this meeting.07:24
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=== agoliveira thinks next time we need a smaller agenda or bigger time slot :)
Mithrandiragoliveira: smaller agenda, hopefully07:24
ian_brasilok...i will write up something then07:24
Mithrandirlet's move on, then07:25
Mithrandirwe have a bunch of ownerless specs07:25
Mithrandirthis is obviously bad.07:25
=== bspencer hopes they won't become his...
kwwiias far as the UI stuff goes, I could help keep it up to date etc.07:26
Mithrandir  - UI guide07:26
Mithrandir  - Browser07:26
Mithrandir  - Media player UI07:26
Mithrandir  - Hardware media decoding07:26
Mithrandir  - USB client07:26
Mithrandir  - Development environment07:26
Mithrandirare the ones07:26
bspencerUI guide -- Bob/Ken07:26
bspencerBrowser -- Bob07:26
rustyUSB client -> c. Johnson07:26
bspencerMedia player -- Bob07:26
Mithrandirwe need an assignee who's responsible for implmentation, and we need a drafter who is responsible for writing the spec07:27
Mithrandirthey can be the same person.07:27
Mithrandirhardware media decoding and usb client are Charlies, I noted that earlier, yes.07:27
kwwiithe UI guide part is kinda hard to decide on the implementation side, or?07:27
Mithrandiryes, it doesn't have an implementation, but it still needs to be completed07:28
kwwiibut I'll sign up as drafter :-)07:28
Mithrandirbspencer: you're both assignee and drafter on yours?07:28
bspenceryou can make me assignee and implementor for:  UI guide, Browser, Media Player UI.   (Or Ken the implementor for UI guide)07:28
bspencerMithrandir, yes, probably.  Though Ken can help too.  07:28
Mithrandirof course, it's just who's responsible, it doesn't mean others can't chime in.07:29
agoliveiraBob The (spec) Builder (sorry Bob, couldn't resist!) :)07:29
Mithrandiragoliveira: can you take the development environment?07:29
bspencerI'm fine with both assignments07:29
agoliveiraMithrandir: Yes, why not07:29
Mithrandirthen we're at the end of the agenda: Goals for next week07:30
MithrandirI'd like to have a meeting in a week, if that works for people.07:30
agoliveiraHave the specs would be nice.07:30
Mithrandirby then, I would like all specs to be written up and maybe not yet approved, but at least ready for approval07:30
rustyI'll be flying on Thursday07:30
Mithrandirok, we can move it to Friday if that's better07:30
rustyworks for me07:31
rustyi'll be irc'ing from the OLS floor07:31
agoliveiraFriday same time is ok for me too.07:31
kwwiisounds fine07:31
Mithrandirshould work fine for me too07:31
Mithrandiranybody have specs they don't think they'll have ready by the end of next week?07:32
bspencergood for me07:32
rustyI would really like to see all the init scripts in place such that you can boot a device that automatically startsup to the hildon desktop without having to manually do a buch of stuff07:32
bspencerMithrandir, I might not have all 7 done, but I'll work on them07:32
rustyMithrandir, I'm good for the image creation spec07:32
Mithrandirbspencer: understood.07:32
Mithrandirbspencer: it's better to have five done and two unstarted than seven mostly-done, IMO.07:33
Mithrandiranybody got any more business?07:33
rustyWill anyone else be at OLS next week?07:33
agoliveiraI ok.07:33
rustyI'm on the hook to host a BOF about mobile stuff07:34
=== kwwii is off ...bye all
Mithrandirinteresting; relay any interesting discussions back to us?07:34
rustythe schedule is wrong.. it talks about a paper that Tariq and I were going to write07:34
amitkrusty: what happened to the pm framework that intel was going to announce?07:34
Mithrandirok, I think we're done with today's business; adjourned.07:34
rustyyeap, i'll report back any interesting stuff, and promote ubuntu-mobile07:34
Mithrandiryou're of course free to discuss more here later, but I have to grab some food before I die of hunger.07:35
amitkTariq mentioned it at UDS07:35
agoliveiraBye all. I have to rush to the bank but I'll be back asap.07:35
rustyamitk, i don't know the latest status other then I know Tariq and Arjan have been shopping around the concepts some some initial design documentation to a bunch of individules07:35
rustytrying to get some mindshare07:36
amitkrusty: So nothing upcoming at OLS?07:36
amitkor PM-summit before?07:37
rustywell, Tariq had to cancel his trip at the last minute for personal reasons07:37
rustyamitk, i need to ping Tariq, but he is on vacation right now07:37
amitkright... 07:38
=== amitk is out of here now for a few hours
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rustyquestion for the crowed... how do we see X starting on ubuntu-mobile?  On a normal desktop you have gdm (or whatever kde uses) that is launched by a startup script and handles starting the user session.  What do we want for an Ubuntu-Mobile device?08:43
bspencermoimart, are your there?  i think I found my big08:46
tkodirect login if there's only one user, login screen otherwise? or rule out multiuser cases?08:46
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moimartbspencer: im here08:47
moimartbspencer: what was it?08:47
agoliveirarusty: I'm with tko on that.08:49
rustythis makes me think we need some kind of simple desktop manager (or whatever the right name is)08:50
bspencermoimart, my code wasn't running08:50
moimartoops :)08:51
moimartwhat did you do for not getting it running?08:51
rustyagoliveira, or... maybe something like this already exists?08:51
bspencernow I see transparency and my panel, but it crashes about 1sec after display08:51
bspencerI just got that and am trying to figure out the backtrace.08:51
moimarttomorrow ill take a look at the code you sent me08:52
bspencervery.  I'll send you new code tonight if I get stuck.08:52
moimartok even better :)08:52
agoliveirarusty: It deppends on what you want. You can just auto-login to a default account and start the enviromment right away.08:53
rustyagoliveira, and how do we do that?08:54
rustyagoliveira, are you just suggesting writing a startup script that calls startx with a .xinitrc file in the user directory that launches the session elements?08:55
agoliveirarusty: Well, I'm a little rusty (pun intended :) ) on that but back in the old days one could tap into inittab to do that.08:55
rustyagoliveira, but... with inittab you were calling a display manager... not just directly starting X08:56
rustydisplay manager... that's the term i was looking for before08:56
agoliveirarusty: IIRC it wasn't that way before but, as I said, I don't know how this is done nowadays.08:57
rustyin current ubuntu (at least in feisty and gutsy), you have a GNOME Display Manager init script08:58
rustyin the past you had something like "x:5:once:/etc/X11/prefdm -nodaemon" in inittab08:58
rustywhere prefdm would just find the correct display manager08:59
agoliveirarusty: Yes, GDM is there08:59
rustybut i'm guessing gdm is a bit overkill for what we need09:00
agoliveirarusty: exactly, just a startx of some form should suffice. 09:01
rustyI'm tempted to just go an create a super simple display manager that for now is just a init script that sources stuff in a standard location (to allow other packages to add whatever), reads a config file (to get things like 'auto login bob), and then calls startx09:01
tkogpe had a login screen of sorts.. no idea how reusable it might be09:02
agoliveirarusty: I guess that would be ok.09:02
jacob-laptopBenC, amitk, i am trying to tag the release for poulsbo patches, it gave me the following error, can you take a look?09:11
jacob-laptopjacob@putvin:~/localDev/ubuntu/jpan9-git-tree$ git-tag -s -m Ubuntu-2.6.22-6.21  Ubuntu-2.6.22-6.2109:11
jacob-laptopgpg: skipped "jacob <jacob@putvin.dp.intel.com>": secret key not available09:11
jacob-laptopgpg: signing failed: secret key not available09:11
jacob-laptopfailed to sign the tag with GPG.09:11
jacob-laptopjacob@putvin:~/localDev/ubuntu/jpan9-git-tree$ git-tag -s -m Ubuntu-2.6.22-6.21  Ubuntu-2.6.22-6.2109:11
jacob-laptopgpg: skipped "jacob <jacob@putvin.dp.intel.com>": secret key not available09:11
jacob-laptopgpg: signing failed: secret key not available09:11
jacob-laptopfailed to sign the tag with GPG.09:11
jacob-laptopjacob@putvin:~/localDev/ubuntu/jpan9-git-tree$ gpg --list-keys jacob09:11
jacob-laptoppub   1024D/DEF6F140 2007-06-2109:11
jacob-laptopuid                  jacob pan (public key) <jacob.jun.pan@intel.com>09:11
jacob-laptopsub   2048g/B2A1D012 2007-06-2109:11
jacob-laptoppub   1024D/3192912B 2007-06-2109:11
jacob-laptopuid                  jacob (public key) <jacob@putvin.dp.intel.com>09:11
jacob-laptopsub   2048g/A9EB4A9D 2007-06-2109:11
tkoumm, you're missing the secret key09:12
tkogpg --list-secret-keys09:13
jacob-laptopjacob@putvin:~/localDev/ubuntu/jpan9-git-tree$ gpg --list-secret-keys09:13
jacob-laptopsec   1024D/DEF6F140 2007-06-2109:13
jacob-laptopuid                  jacob pan (public key) <jacob.jun.pan@intel.com>09:13
jacob-laptopssb   2048g/B2A1D012 2007-06-2109:13
jacob-laptopsec   1024D/3192912B 2007-06-2109:13
jacob-laptopuid                  jacob (public key) <jacob@putvin.dp.intel.com>09:13
jacob-laptopssb   2048g/A9EB4A9D 2007-06-2109:13
jacob-laptoptko: does it look right?09:14
tkoother that the difference of " (public key)" can't really see a problem.. I don't know how git picks the key09:15
tkoyou could try passing "-u 3192912B" to git-tag 09:16
jacob-laptoptko: did you use "gpg --gen-key  " ?09:16
tkoI haven't used git with gp09:16
jacob-laptoptko: it is in ubuntu kernel guide, it suggest tag the release for submitting patches09:17
jacob-laptopok, i used -u option in git tag and it works09:20
jacob-laptopjacob@putvin:~/localDev/ubuntu/jpan9-git-tree$ git-tag -u jacob -s -m Ubuntu-2.6.22-6.21  Ubuntu-2.6.22-6.2109:20
jacob-laptopYou need a passphrase to unlock the secret key for09:20
jacob-laptopuser: "jacob pan (public key) <jacob.jun.pan@intel.com>"09:20
jacob-laptop1024-bit DSA key, ID DEF6F140, created 2007-06-2109:20
jacob-laptoptko: thanks09:20
tkouhh.. stupid git.. it should know to skip the realname of the mail address IMO09:20
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BenCjacob-laptop: you don't tag releases09:37
BenCjacob-laptop: we'll tag them when we do an upload09:37
BenCjacob-laptop: tagging is for uploading to the archive...to submit patches, just commit them and send a pull request to kernel-team09:38
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agoliveiraBIG FAT WARNING: There's a bug in the hildon-desktop package. If you install it on a real Gutsy, it will send your menus to heck. I just screwd up my notebook.09:59
stgraberagoliveira: really ? When does that happen ?09:59
stgraberI installed it on my gutsy test computer a minute ago and it seems to work10:00
agoliveirastgraber: Just now. I have being using chroots so far and was all ok.10:00
agoliveirastgraber:Well, I'll see later. Meeting now.10:01
matt_cagoliveira: ahh I thought that might have been unrelated to ubuntu-mobile, thanks for the heads up :)10:07
agoliveiramatt_c: No it's bug in the hildon-desktop package. It's replacing the gnome menus. I'll fix that until tomorrow.10:09
matt_cagoliveira: no problem at all, I was just checking it out inside a VM.10:09
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cfjBen and/or Jacob: Did the patches get in??10:16
anodenewbie question: what's the best way to download the code and start playing with it?10:21
agoliveiraanode: For the source, launchpad.10:21
matt_canode: I was playing with it last night by downloading gutsy tribe 1, installing ubuntu-mobile and then running it over on a Xephyr session10:22
=== matt_c is, however, also a newb.
agoliveiraanode: If you just want start and play, check this out: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/HildonDesktopManualProcedure10:23
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matt_cIndeed, that's what I used after apt-get installing ubuntu-mobile10:24
anodethanks agoliveira and matt_c, starting to make sense now. 10:24
anodewhat's the main expected target hardware? Intel devices or nokia?10:26
anodeI have a nokia n80010:26
agoliveiraanode: For now, Intel LPIA10:28
jacob-laptopBen, cfj , i tagged and uploaded kernel git, I also sent an email to kernel-team for you to pull10:28
matt_cI'm excited about running ubuntu-mobile on plain old x86 hardware.10:35
happycubei can't wait to get something silverthorne based10:35
happycube^ 45nm pentium-m, 2w, 2500 dies/300mm wafer10:35
anodeso is anyone testing with a nokia n800?10:35
happycubei don't think nokia releases enough info to do a fully independent build10:35
happycubethere are parts of the hw that are closed :(10:35
happycubeor *were*10:35
happycube^ can someone fact-check that?10:35
anodehappycube: which parts are closed? Or were?10:35
etrunkohappycube, anode: there is an independent initiative following the openmoko model10:37
happycubesweet - website?10:37
happycubei'd love to have an independent build on my 77010:37
lucasretrunko, couldn't track be less ugly?10:38
etrunkolucasr: don't think so10:39
lucasretrunko, :-)10:39
etrunkoit's just the default theme10:39
etrunkoour designers are too busy atm10:39
lucasretrunko, everyone just uses this default theme10:39
etrunkolucasr: heh10:39
etrunkohappycube: vivijim has blogged about a presentation he did this week. it's in planet maemo10:40
anodeI take it there are a lot of intel guys and gals around here?10:41
rustyyeap... a few of us10:41
lucasrthis channel is getting really crowded10:43
happycubei've been thinking about intel's 2008 lineup... this segment could really explode ;)10:44
happycubeesp if you count asus eee's and things like that...10:44
anodeso if anyone outside intel wants to contribute, what _available_ embedded hardware is there to run on ?10:47
matt_canode: an old Pentium laptop? :)10:47
rustythe existing lineup of what vendors have called UMPC's10:48
anodematt_c: my pockets are too small10:48
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anoderusty: the "I'll try to run Vista if it kills me, or burns your hand" UMPCs. Though the idea was to use cool efficient linux to get away from those beasts....10:50
happycubethey can probably be reprogrammed10:50
happycubei hope amd can get something together for this space - we need the competition - but they won't and maybe even can't!10:51
rustythe existing UMPC's are pretty bulky and the battery life sucks... but they help our for GUI / infrastructure development10:51
happycubethey're talking about an answer to santa rosa next year, lol... and of course no linux user would want it because they won't support linux anywhere near as well ;)10:51
matt_cVia's new *-ITX is pretty small too.10:51
happycubei think via's closer... silverthorne screams "c7 killer"10:51
happycubevia should've gone to integrated north bridges a year ago... they have a nice small-footprint cpu and a huge nb by comparison10:52
agoliveiraI've heard some horror histories about linux on C7. Never got my hand one one tough.10:52
happycubei haven't tried either10:52
matt_cI have an old mini-itx that ran debian well10:53
happycubei sooo wish via was selling mini-itx boards for $50-10010:53
happycubewhen they first came out the boards were dirt cheap... but they never came down and the rest of the world did10:54
happycubeasus has a box with mobo+case+psu for $75 at 'egg10:54
happycube(unfortunatly via cheaped on capacitors... epia-original had sanyo... epia-m had gsc... near 100% failure rate!)10:55
happycubethey got better eventually, but ouch.10:55
happycube(re gsc... i don't think sanyo had a bad batch ;) )10:56
happycubeanyhow i'm looking forward to $200 laptops and $400-500 ultramobiles10:56
ppcwhere can i find general architecure / sys design or something like about ubuntu mobile please ?11:21
anodeso is ubuntu-mobile definitely intel only or do nokia n800 owners have a place here ?11:23
etrunkoanode: i think we have a place here because they share (almost) the same infrastructure11:24
rustyanode, the initial focus is on LPIA hardware, but the project is not exclusive to x86 architectures.... btw, wouldn't the first step be getting a ubuntu arm port?11:24
rustyetrunko, that is true11:25
tkoputting money where the mouth is or something.. :)11:25
anodeseems to me that since the n800 is out there already a port should not be too hard11:26
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_gpg_got disconnecfed11:30
_gpg_i was asking where can i find any syste/module designs or system architecure of ubuntu mobile11:31
_gpg_i'm working on realtime embedded systems for automative systems and wanted to contribute to gnome mobile, the mailing list seems to be discontinued11:32
tko_gpg_: which list?11:33
_gpg_tko gnome for mobile device mobile-devel-list@gnome.org11:34
tkooh, it's just quiet11:34
_gpg_tko the latests one i read wasnt encouraging11:35
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_gpg_good night11:45
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