[12:38] <bspencer_> agoliveira, thx
[12:40] <agoliveira> bspencer_: My pleasure dude! BTW, are any of you going to the LinuxWorld Conference and Expo in SF? There will be a mobile track there.
[12:40] <tko> IMO hildon-desktop shouldn't depend on sapwood.. it might depend on any "hildon compatible" theme. if the theme uses sapwood the that theme needs to depend on gtk2-engines-sapwood
[12:41] <agoliveira> tko: That's an interesting idea. Tool bad I have no idea how to package this :P but we can plan something.
[12:42] <tko> agoliveira: we have our theme dependency in higher level metapackage
[12:43] <agoliveira> tko: Yes. I meant that I have no idea if we would keep this way or do it diferently.
[12:44] <tko> I'm remembering a discussion we had internally and I think we should probably add a virtual hildon-theme dependency and let plankton and other theme packages provide it
[12:45] <tko> but then again, it's just cosmetics...
[12:48] <Mithrandir> if hildon-desktop needs a theme (but doesn't care which) add a depends on sapwood | hildon-theme and have sapwood (and any other themes) provide hildon-theme.
[12:52] <tko> sapwood is just the engine
[01:02] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: I think that mix sapwood with the theme is not a good idea.
[01:17] <jacob_> BenC,  i created /srv/kernel.ubuntu.com/git/jpan9/jpan9-git-tree.git, but i got error trying to push my changes
[01:18] <jacob_> BenC, the error is error: remote 'refs/heads/origin' is not a strict subset of local ref 'refs/heads/origin'. maybe you are not up-to-date and need to pull first?
[01:19] <BenC> jacob_: how did you create jpan9-git-tree on zinc?
[01:19] <jacob_> following the KernelGitGuide
[01:19] <BenC> jacob_: Are you trying to push your local Linus based tree to it?
[01:19] <BenC> or is your local tree based on our gutsy tree?
[01:20] <jacob_> git-clone -l -n -s /srv/kernel.ubuntu.com/git/ubuntu/ubuntu-gutsy.git
[01:20] <jacob_> yes, it is. i did a pull
[01:20] <BenC> No, I mean the tree you are pushing from
[01:20] <jacob_> jacob@putvin:~/localDev/ubuntu/ubuntu-gutsy$ git pull ssh://jpan9@kernel.ubuntu.com/srv/kernel.ubuntu.com/git/jpan9/jpan9-git-tree.git
[01:20] <jacob_> Already up-to-date.
[01:20] <BenC> ah, so you cloned, pulled, committed changes, and are trying to push?
[01:21] <BenC> well, I mean you cloned on zinc, cloned that locally, committed, and then push
[01:21] <jacob_> the only glich might be i cloned from our local copy that rob created, 
[01:21] <BenC> ah, that's it
[01:21] <jacob_> before i got access to zinc
[01:21] <BenC> git-fetch origin; git-rebase origin
[01:22] <BenC> I rebase to Linux tree every so often (soon to be on a schedule)
[01:22] <BenC> so it throws off the history
[01:22] <BenC> s/Linux/Linus/
[01:24] <BenC> not sure how your tree is, but might have to use full URI: git-fetch zinc.ubuntu.com:/srv/kernel.ubuntu.com/git/ubuntu/ubuntu-gutsy master:ubuntu-gutsy; git-rebase ubuntu-gutsy
[01:24] <jacob_> let me try
[01:28] <jacob_> still have the same problem
[01:28] <jacob_> jacob@putvin:~/localDev/ubuntu/ubuntu-gutsy$ git-fetch jpan9@zinc.ubuntu.com:/srv/kernel.ubuntu.com/git/ubuntu/ubuntu-gutsy master:ubuntu-gutsy;
[01:28] <jacob_> jacob@putvin:~/localDev/ubuntu/ubuntu-gutsy$ git-rebase ubuntu-gutsy
[01:28] <jacob_> Current branch master is up to date.
[01:28] <jacob_> jacob@putvin:~/localDev/ubuntu/ubuntu-gutsy$ git push ssh://jpan9@kernel.ubuntu.com/srv/kernel.ubuntu.com/git/jpan9/jpan9-git-tree.git
[01:28] <jacob_> error: remote 'refs/heads/origin' is not a strict subset of local ref 'refs/heads/origin'. maybe you are not up-to-date and need to pull first?
[01:28] <BenC> hmm..how can it be up-to-date and not be a subset :/
[01:29] <BenC> oh, it's only complaining about origin
[01:30] <jacob_> for got to pull again, so the push works now. thanks
[01:33] <Mithrandir> BenC: can you be around for an update on the mobile kernel, tomorrow, at 1600 UTC?
[01:43] <BenC> Mithrandir: luckily that happens to be an hour before I have 3 catch-up calls with kernel team
[01:43] <BenC> Mithrandir: this channel?
[01:43] <BenC> Oh, wait, tomorrow is Thu
[01:43] <BenC> ok, still open
[01:44] <Mithrandir> BenC: yes, as in about 16 hours.
[01:44] <Mithrandir> great, thanks.
[01:44] <BenC> I'll invite amit too
[01:44] <Mithrandir> update as in, I'd like an update on what's happening there, particularly with the spec.
[01:44] <Mithrandir> Kyle is the drafter, but he's on VAC
[01:45] <BenC> amit is supposed to be taking things over, but I've talked to kyle a bit and should have some info for you
[01:45] <Mithrandir> ok, thanks.
[02:00] <BenC> Mithrandir: damnit, my head is mis calculating UTC to local...I have an engineering call tomorrow with a vendor at 16:00 UTC
[02:01] <Mithrandir> can you get amitk up to speed and ask him to attend on behalf of the kernel team then?
[02:01] <BenC> Mithrandir: I'll email status to amit and let him present
[02:01] <Mithrandir> thanks
[02:01] <BenC> I can still sit in and try to answer while on the phone
[02:02] <Mithrandir> if you could, that'd be great
[02:14] <bspencer> agoliveira: Mithrandir, tko :  but the point Mithrandir made is a good one.  Have the theme pkg provide hildon-theme
[02:14] <bspencer> and hildon-desktop dependsd on hildon-theme
[02:14] <bspencer> the plankton pkg would have the sapwood dependency
[02:15] <bspencer> (plankton being a nokia default theme)
[02:17] <Mithrandir> you want to have hildon-desktop depend on plankton-theme | hildon-theme though so it knows a reasonable default
[02:21] <agoliveira> as a reasonable default, I agree.
[02:42] <bspencer> Mithrandir, agoliveira :  sure, until we have the MID-Ubuntu theme done.
[02:42] <bspencer> or whatever.
[02:44] <Mithrandir> sure, at that point we can flip the default
[02:47] <agoliveira> Ok, deal.
[03:09] <bspencer> tko: moimart can you confirm that the latest svn is: http://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/branches/maemo-af-desktop/hildon-desktop/ ?
[03:10] <bspencer> agoliveira: where do we pull from for the hildon-1-0 pkg?
[03:19] <bspencer> 134.134.16.127
[03:19] <bspencer> (bob's IP adder)
[03:19] <bspencer> scratch
[03:20] <bspencer> credit card number:  3234 2311 4444 2122
[03:20] <Mithrandir> bspencer: is your question about where to pull from where launchpad pulls from or what URL you should us to get the bzr checkout of what's in hildon-1-0?
[03:21] <bspencer> Mithrandir: I am working on adding new functionality to libhildondesktop
[03:21] <bspencer> I was working off source from maemo svn
[03:21] <bspencer> but wanted to be sure I was working on the tip.  Then I was curious where we pull our source from.
[03:22] <Mithrandir> we have branched off their trunk at some point, but will regularly resynchronise with their trunk.
[03:22] <bspencer> how does the normal process work in this regard?
[03:22] <bspencer> I assume I send them my code, then ubuntu syncs now and then 
[03:22] <Mithrandir> that's one way to do it, yes.
[03:23] <bspencer> but maybe I should be making changes to ubuntu code, then push it to them later
[03:23] <Mithrandir> or you could develop it in a bzr branch
[03:23] <Mithrandir> libhildondesktop is in hildon-desktop, right?
[03:23] <bspencer> Mithrandir: I like that.  It means that my changes don't have to be accepted by Nokia immediately
[03:23] <agoliveira> bspencer: That would be the better way I guess.
[03:24] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Insomnia striking today? :)
[03:24] <bspencer> I think that libhildon-1-dev contains the "hildon-desktop" code.
[03:24] <Mithrandir> agoliveira: nah, debconf.  Hacking. :-)
[03:25] <agoliveira> Guys, I'm leaving. See you tomorrow;
[03:25] <Mithrandir> agoliveira: something vaguely related to -mobile even; not necessary yet, but certainly for mobile stuff: exclusion support for dpkg.
[03:25] <bspencer> ciao
[03:25] <Mithrandir> see you, Adilson
[09:09] <bspencer> moimart, you around?
[12:34] <amitk> robr: Could you please check your patches with ./scripts/checkpatch.pl in the kernel directory, fix and repost them?
[05:23] <ian_brasil> is there a meeting here soon..i am sure i remeber 16:00 today but could be wrong?
[05:24] <Mithrandir> you are correct
[05:24] <Mithrandir> 1600 UTC
[05:24] <Mithrandir> so in about 36 minutes
[05:26] <ian_brasil> ok...i am not imagining things then, great
[05:57] <Mithrandir> hm, so who are here already?
[05:58] <kwwii> howdy
[05:59] <Mithrandir> agoliveira: you and me both.  3.5 hours after a night of hacking isn't enough
[05:59] <agoliveira> kwwii: Yo! How's the flight back?
[06:00] <agoliveira> No Intel people around? I know Bob is logged in.
[06:01] <Mithrandir> haven't seen them today.
[06:01] <kwwii> agoliveira: long but not too bad
[06:01] <agoliveira> kwwii: Same.
[06:01] <kwwii> agoliveira: no customs problems? :-)
[06:03] <Mithrandir> hi Charles
[06:03] <agoliveira> kwwii: No. I just passed trough. But I was well in the allowance anyway.
[06:03] <agoliveira> kwwii: Not counting the watch, of course :P
[06:04] <kwwii> hehe, sweet - I picked up a camera in the meantime
[06:04] <|moimart|> im here :)
[06:04] <cfj> Hi - This is Charlie Johnson from Intel.  Tollef misidentified me in his agenda.
[06:04] <Mithrandir> cfj: oops, apologies.
[06:04] <Mithrandir> cfj: seen Bob and the others yet?
[06:04] <cfj> They don't site close to me, so I haven't seen them
[06:04] <agoliveira> kwwii: I knew you wouldn't resist :)
[06:06] <cfj> Are we expecting Tollef to be on to walk thru the agenda?
[06:06] <agoliveira> Yes, I guess so.
[06:07] <agoliveira> Tollef: Need any help?
[06:07] <Mithrandir> I'm waiting a little bit to see if Bob and Rusty shows up
[06:07] <agoliveira> Ah, ok.
[06:07] <Mithrandir> oh well, we'll start now and they can chime in later.
[06:07] <Mithrandir> - Hildon packaging update (Tollef Fog Heen/Adilson Oliveira)
[06:07] <Mithrandir> - Flash image creation (Rusty )
[06:07] <Mithrandir> - Kernel and hardware support (Ben Collins)
[06:07] <Mithrandir> - UI, utilities (Bob Spencer)
[06:07] <Mithrandir> - Graphics (Charlie Spencer)
[06:07] <Mithrandir> - Build infrastructure (Tollef Fog Heen)
[06:07] <Mithrandir> - GNOME components (Bob Spencer)
[06:07] <Mithrandir> - Ownerless specs: - UI guide - Browser - Media player UI - Hardware media decoding - USB client - Development environment
[06:07] <Mithrandir> - Goals for the next week
[06:08] <agoliveira> Fine to me.
[06:08] <Mithrandir> anybody got any additions to the agenda?
[06:09] <cfj> Yes - MID Wireless Device Support & Kernel Patches for Thermal optimizations
[06:10] <agoliveira> I also would like Intel rep to talk about the devices a bit, just to let the others know the current situation.
[06:10] <agoliveira> If there is any new, of course.
[06:10] <cfj> Which type of devices?
[06:10] <cfj> Or do you mean platforms?
[06:10] <agoliveira> Sorry, platforms...
[06:10] <cfj> I can do that.
[06:11] <agoliveira> Cool.
[06:11] <Mithrandir> ok, let's get started then.
[06:11] <Mithrandir> Adilson, can you give us an update on the current state of the hildon packages?
[06:11] <agoliveira> Sure.
[06:11] <Mithrandir> (relative to two weeks ago)
[06:12] <rusty> I totally spaced on the Thursday morning irc meeting thing
[06:12] <ian_brasil> sorry...some talk about docs would be good too if there is time
[06:12] <Mithrandir> rusty: my fault, I was supposed to send the mail a bit earlier, but debconf foiled me.
[06:12] <Mithrandir> ian_brasil: good point.
[06:13] <Mithrandir> rusty: any idea if Bob's showing up?
[06:13] <agoliveira> We were able to put all the bits and pieces on the repository to one can use thme on Gutsy. There is a bugs yet but as a first set of packages is fine. I have being trying to reorganize them but it is just not feasible to mess this around right now. I fixing the -dev packages and will have it done probably today yet.
[06:13] <rusty> I bet he forgot... I have email from him till 2 in the morning
[06:14] <rusty> Has anyone tried to root cause the bug where clicking on the menu icon will crash hildon-desktop?
[06:14] <Mithrandir> agoliveira: that sounds like great progress.  So you can run a hildon desktop now and have applications display on it?
[06:14] <agoliveira> Yes :)
[06:14] <agoliveira> Since last week actually.
[06:15] <Mithrandir> that's great; it should unblock the intel people who want to build stuff using hildon too, I hope.
[06:15] <ferulo> agoliveira: is there any packaging stuff in hildon bits that should be considered to be merged upstream?
[06:15] <rusty> Mithrandir, yes, we are good for app development
[06:16] <Mithrandir> agoliveira: what's left before we can consider the initial sprint for packages done?
[06:16] <agoliveira> ferulo: Right now, I guess not.
[06:16] <Mithrandir> ferulo: probably all of it, I'd say.
[06:16] <Mithrandir> more or less.
[06:16] <rusty> Mithrandir, but we do have a nasty bug where the desktop crashes when you click on the icon that should provide the application menu
[06:16] <agoliveira> I would prefer to mature it abit yet. 
[06:17] <Mithrandir> rusty: sounds like something that should be fairly easy to track down using valgrind.
[06:17] <ferulo> ok, so do you plan to submit bugs upstream or pointing us to relevant changes? or should we track your bzr repos?
[06:17] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: With the dev packages working, I think we are ok for a first round.
[06:17] <Mithrandir> agoliveira: ok, good.
[06:17] <rusty> Mithrandir, Horace (in Shanghi) was attempting to track it down last night. 
[06:18] <Mithrandir> ferulo: I think we want to submit it as bugs upstream, but if you would rather track bzr that would of course make it even easier for us.
[06:18] <rusty> Mithrandir, i think with the gtk update from mid-last week, we dropped the a gtk patch that we depend on that allows custom file picker dialog windows
[06:18] <Mithrandir> hmm, ok.
[06:18] <Mithrandir> we need to fix that
[06:19] <Mithrandir> agoliveira: can you check whether it's still there, and if not, talk to Daniel or Seb to get it back again?
[06:19] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Sure.
[06:19] <Mithrandir> thanks.
[06:20] <Mithrandir> anybody got anything more about the packaging update?  If not, we'll proceed to flash image creating
[06:20] <Mithrandir> creation, even
[06:20] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: IIRC, it is there yet but I'll double check it.
[06:20] <rusty> agoliveira, are you talking about the gtk patch?
[06:20] <agoliveira> Yes
[06:21] <rusty> agoliveira, if the patch is there then we have a new bug that you can reproduce by attempting to open any file picker
[06:21] <rusty> agoliveira, for example... open the dialog to set the background and pick the "browse" button, and watch hildon-desktop crash
[06:22] <Mithrandir> ok, that needs to be fixed.
[06:22] <rusty> it's just that the bug showed up the first time i created a new chroot that used the new gtk
[06:22] <agoliveira> rusty: I'll see that as soon as we finish here.
[06:22] <Mithrandir> rusty: can you give us an update on the image creation tools?
[06:22] <Mithrandir> the spec's still drafting, what's missing there?
[06:23] <Mithrandir> hmm, all of it, it seems. :-P
[06:23] <rusty> i'm behind on writting the spec
[06:23] <rusty> but the code is up in bzr
[06:23] <Mithrandir> hi Bob
[06:23] <bspencer> hey
[06:23] <|moimart|> rusty: if the problem is in the hildon filechooser hildon-desktop can use gtkfilechooser
[06:23] <rusty> last week i created a new project called 'project-builder'
[06:23] <Mithrandir> rusty: when do you think you can have the spec written up by?  Do you need help with it?
[06:23] <bspencer> moimart, glad you are around 
[06:24] <|moimart|> :)
[06:24] <rusty> Mithrandir, i planed on finishing it this week... i just need to make myself finish it
[06:24] <bspencer> moimart, I sent you a reply with all the info I could think of to be useful
[06:24] <Mithrandir> rusty: ok, good.  Anything you need from anybody else for that to happen?
[06:25] <|moimart|> bspencer: ill have a look
[06:25] <rusty> Mithrandir, i think i'm good... as soon as I push another fix this morning then the tool can create images that boot on a samsung q1 ultra
[06:25] <rusty> well... other then i need to add a new package that contains the specific samsung configuration
[06:26] <bspencer> rusty, did you figure out the touchscreen config?
[06:26] <Mithrandir> rusty: that's really good news.
[06:26] <rusty> bspencer, no, i'm still having problems configuring the touchscreen
[06:27] <rusty> the new samsung device has some challenges... like a usb camera that doesn't seem to have a driver yet
[06:27] <rusty> and the wireless is the Atheros AR5006X... i'm not sure if a driver exist for that just yet
[06:27] <bspencer> wireless connectivity is overrated
[06:27] <bspencer> everybody is pugging in these days
[06:28] <bspencer> s/pugging/plugging
[06:28] <Mithrandir> heh
[06:28] <agoliveira> Isnst' this Atheros AR5006X the same as the macbooks?
[06:28] <rusty> I'm not sure... i haven't had time to investigate
[06:29] <agoliveira> If it is, there's drivers.
[06:29] <cfj> Rusty - Any update from Mauri as to when Q1 Ultras will ship to Canonical?
[06:29] <cfj> I keep hearing next week for the last 3 weeks.
[06:30] <rusty> We are got our first delivery of a few systems, and some more are starting to trickle in
[06:31] <rusty> We are looking into the right way to ship these devices without having the recipients having to pick up the import tax
[06:31] <rusty> so far... at the very least we will ship to a site in the specific location, and then reship domestic
[06:31] <cfj> Shipping knows how to do this.  We shipped stuff to Tungsten Graphics all the time.  (i.e. Alan is in the UK.)
[06:32] <rusty> cfj, you mean where we pickup the tax?
[06:33] <Mithrandir> it seems like the image builder is having good progress, so I suggest we move onto the kernel and hardware support, as well as MID wireless device support & kernel patches for thermal optimisations.
[06:33] <Mithrandir> and while I'm looking forward to getting my hand on a device, we can handle that after the meeting?
[06:33] <cfj> It has to do with how you designate the device.  Something like claiming it is a prototype.  
[06:33] <agoliveira> Agreed.
[06:33] <cfj> I can ask around to find out the details.  
[06:34] <Mithrandir> BenC,amitk: kernel update?
[06:34] <amitk> mithrandir: right. So there are two components
[06:34] <amitk> the UME kernel configuration and the actual LPIA patches
[06:35] <amitk> the kernel configuration is being worked on by Kyle who is on vacation this week.
[06:35] <jacob-laptop> amitk: hi, i put my git repo at /srv/kernel.ubuntu.com/git/jpan9/jpan9-git-tree.git
[06:35] <amitk> I hope to start working with him when he is back
[06:36] <agoliveira> amitk: When is this?
[06:36] <amitk> coming the the patches... jacob-laptop: I looked at those.
[06:37] <amitk> agoliveira: next week if I understood benc correctly
[06:37] <Mithrandir> agoliveira: he'll be back Monday, I suspect, he's here at Debconf
[06:37] <agoliveira> Oh, fine.
[06:37] <cfj> How does it look getting the patches into the kernel for CD#2 at the end of the month?
[06:37] <Mithrandir> what needs doing for the spec to be approved?
[06:37] <amitk> jacob-laptop: could you go over https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelGitGuide and clean up the patches accordingly
[06:38] <Mithrandir> cfj: we'd need the patches this week, the latest.
[06:38] <BenC> Tribe-2 has a deadline of Tue
[06:38] <BenC> and I'm not sure we can make that, but we'll try
[06:38] <amitk> More specifically, read the Patch acceptance criteria
[06:38] <cfj> Jacob - What else needs to happen.  We've had these patches for a bit?
[06:39] <BenC> bad part about the kernel is we have 3-4 dependent packages that have to be compiled behind it, so we need more lead time to do the upload than other packages
[06:40] <agoliveira> excuse me for one minute: someone is ringging... let me kick he/she out!
[06:40] <cfj> What's the minimum to allow it to boot & Run on a Menlow ??  (PATA, LPC, SMBUS ??)
[06:40] <jacob-laptop> i will do the clean up and some fixes, this was the initial version did in a hurry. 
[06:40] <amitk> jacob-laptop: thanks
[06:40] <jacob-laptop> don't need any patch to boot.
[06:40] <jacob-laptop> but using pata patch will let you boot faster
[06:41] <Mithrandir> amitk: do you know if Kyle needs anything to complete the spec, or if it's just blocked on time?
[06:41] <jacob-laptop> it enables DMA
[06:41] <cfj> PATA, not a USB drive.
[06:42] <amitk> mithrandir: I don't. But i think it was time.
[06:42] <Mithrandir> ok
[06:42] <Mithrandir> I can prod him gently when I see him next.
[06:42] <cfj> So again, is there anything else Intel needs to do for these core chipset patches ??  Is just Ubuntu/Canonical processing at this point?
[06:43] <jacob-laptop> there is no patch for ECHI USB
[06:43] <jacob-laptop> EHCI
[06:43] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Good idea... he's about twice your size :)
[06:44] <cfj> We don't have to wait for that. (EHCI)
[06:45] <Mithrandir> cfj: you had an item about wireless device support and kernel patches for thermal optimisations.  What is there to say about them?
[06:45] <jacob-laptop> cfj: we will continue developing patches for the chipset. No EHCI patch afaik.
[06:46] <amitk> jacob-laptop: Do you have a time estimate on the reworked patches?
[06:46] <jacob-laptop> Currently, those patches are only distributed to Ubuntu.
[06:47] <jacob-laptop> amitk: if you refer to the clean up, i can do it today.
[06:47] <cfj> Mithrandir: I can take the wireless and thermal topic to email.  I'd rather address graphics today.  
[06:47] <Mithrandir> ok
[06:47] <amitk> great
[06:48] <jacob-laptop> amitk: other than commit template what else should i do?
[06:48] <Mithrandir> jacob-laptop: I'm putting you up as responsible for cleaning up the patches so they are suitable for Ubuntu
[06:48] <Mithrandir> jacob-laptop: ok?
[06:49] <cfj> So again - Does Canonical need anything more from Intel as far as the core chipset patches ??  
[06:49] <amitk> jacob-laptop: actually, _before_ the template, you need to cleanup whitespace. Run the patches through the scripts mentioned on the link above
[06:49] <jacob-laptop> Mithrandir: ok. i will make sure patches follow the UbuntuKernelGuide
[06:50] <Mithrandir> amitk: can you answer cfj's question?
[06:51] <amitk> cfj: if nothing else is required for boot, then nothing else is required from Intel. BenC might be able to correct me here...
[06:51] <Mithrandir> then I suggest we move on to UI and utilities; Bob?
[06:51] <bspencer> yes
[06:51] <bspencer> a quick status from last week
[06:52] <bspencer> perhaps you already discussed, sorry I was late
[06:52] <Mithrandir> what's the status, do you need help for getting the specs through to approved?
[06:52] <bspencer> we had a productive meeting with Nokia, which helped a lot
[06:52] <Mithrandir> no, we didn't.
[06:52] <bspencer> during the Desktop Architects meeting at googleplex
[06:52] <bspencer> I think for Hildon framework, most packages are in repo and working
[06:52] <bspencer> although I think the -dev packages aren't quite there.
[06:53] <bspencer> at least I can't install hildon-desktop-dev yet 
[06:53] <cfj> Mithrandir: I have to bail out of the meeting at the top of the hour.  I can include graphics in my email with the other topics. 
[06:53] <agoliveira> bspencer: Right, being taken care.
[06:53] <bspencer> agoliveira, said he would work on this a little this week, iirc
[06:53] <Mithrandir> cfj: ok, thanks.
[06:53] <bspencer> great.
[06:53] <bspencer> wrt the specs, I am delinquent but will repent
[06:53] <bspencer> I have the information for at least the main UI and have shared this with Ken and others, but need to update the site
[06:54] <Mithrandir> ok, good.
[06:54] <bspencer> utilities -- we should discuss
[06:54] <bspencer> not sure exactly what that entails, aside from getting the control panel and status bar working
[06:54] <bspencer> and writing some "how-to-create-a-plugin" documentation
[06:54] <bspencer> but I will work on that too.
[06:54] <agoliveira> bspencer: About those docs you have being writting with Moises. Are you going to put it up?
[06:54] <bspencer> yes
[06:54] <agoliveira> Cool
[06:54] <bspencer> mainly they are just API description and a UML chart.
[06:55] <bspencer> and whatever I think I've learned.
[06:55] <Mithrandir> that's a good start
[06:55] <bspencer> I try to get these in by Monday evening.
[06:55] <bspencer> (not sure what the deadline is other than asap)
[06:56] <bspencer> that's all I have, unless there are questions.
[06:56] <Mithrandir> well, before we have the specs approved, we don't actually have a project plan, which is slightly problematic wrt an agreement between Canonical and Intel.
[06:56] <Mithrandir> as well as being problematic since we don't know what we need to do and have the tools we need to use for plannig
[06:56] <|moimart|> bspencer: it would be good to have those docs, because the releasing of our documentation is still open
[06:56] <bspencer> Mithrandir, good point.
[06:57] <bspencer> moimart, ok.
[06:57] <cfj> We should discuss project plan -  A separate working meeting on that topic be good.
[06:58] <Mithrandir> the specs are really the project plan
[06:59] <Mithrandir> ok, Charlie has to go, so we'll skip the Graphics item on the agenda and move on to Build infrastructure.
[06:59] <cfj> We need to talk about actually schedules.  When we expect the various items in the specs to be integrated.   At least have targets.
[06:59] <tko> btw, we're slowly collecting ideas for hildon roadmap at http://live.gnome.org/Hildon/Roadmap .. if you have some ideas, especially if you're considering doing things yourself, feel free to add them there. we can then have a roadmap discussion at some point on hildon-list
[06:59] <Mithrandir> cfj: ok, we can meet up early next week to discuss that?
[07:00] <bspencer> tko, thanks for the heads-up.  we might like to propose something with our marquee (panel) and maybe an additional widget or two (off the top of my head).
[07:00] <cfj> I have to do: Two last comments : HW Media Accel and USB Client should be owned by me. (Charlie Johnson) and yes we can meet early next week.
[07:00] <Mithrandir> I don't really have anything to report wrt build infrastructure, I've been on vacation and therefore haven't prodded the relevant people.  Prodding will resume shortly and we should have a beginning archive by next week, I hope.
[07:00] <cfj> s/do/go/
[07:00] <Mithrandir> cfj: ok, thanks for your time. :-)
[07:00] <agoliveira> Bye cfj
[07:01] <Mithrandir> which brings us back to Bob again, on the GNOME components.
[07:01] <|moimart|> bspencer: having open plugins is a very good idea as i told you
[07:01] <Mithrandir> bspencer: the spec here is also empty; do you have a plan to share with us which can go into the spec?
[07:02] <bspencer> moimart, sure.  
[07:02] <bspencer> Mithrandir, the spec was intended to describe what parts of Gnome mobile we would want to include in the distribution
[07:02] <bspencer> at this point I only know of the components that are needed by specific applications
[07:03] <bspencer> not sure if just includig all gnome mobile is desirable
[07:03] <bspencer> or if we take it an application at a time -- just including what they really need.
[07:03] <bspencer> but that may be the work of someone creating a product, not the distribution
[07:03] <bspencer> so I can write this spec quickly, just saying that it will have the gnome mobile components and include a picture from gnome.org/mobile
[07:03] <tko> bspencer: I was just about to say that depends on whether you're producing a platform or product
[07:03] <bspencer> comments? 
[07:04] <bspencer> tko, agreed.
[07:04] <bspencer> this brings up a bigger question which is who/when do we decide what is part of this distribution?
[07:05] <Mithrandir> I've always had the impression of us being a platform more than just a product.
[07:06] <agoliveira> ... and so being able to be multiple products, etc
[07:06] <ian_brasil> Mithrandir: some of the recent feedback/e-mails to the list seem to back this up too
[07:07] <Mithrandir> I'm happy by basically deferring the decision to GMAE and pick their components and whatever extras we need
[07:07] <Mithrandir> does that sound good?
[07:07] <bspencer> it is the best we can do today.
[07:07] <bspencer> and we can adjust it as need dictates
[07:08] <Mithrandir> ok, can you write up the spec with that as the basis?
[07:08] <bspencer> yes
[07:08] <Mithrandir> thanks
[07:08] <Mithrandir> any more on GNOME components?  If not, we'll move on to documentation.
[07:08] <Mithrandir> ian_brasil: the floor is yours. :-)
[07:09] <ian_brasil> well i just wanted to find out about the best way to document things
[07:09] <ian_brasil> if there is something planned or not
[07:09] <ian_brasil> I have just been documenting things in an ad-hoc way so far 
[07:10] <rusty> what kind of documentation are we talking about?
[07:10] <ian_brasil> so some planning will help for sure
[07:10] <ian_brasil> well for example there was some interest in pyphantom
[07:10] <ian_brasil> so i documeted the source code
[07:11] <ian_brasil> basically API documentation and user guides 
[07:12] <ian_brasil> but more importantly how can it be done in a uniform way
[07:12] <ian_brasil> using as much available infrastructure as possible
[07:13] <Mithrandir> it sounds like something that should be taken upstream, so going with maemo prefers to use for API docs
[07:14] <rusty> I can definitely see a bunch of ad-hoc documentation written making it hard for people to find what they are looking for
[07:15] <rusty> like... what's up with this Samsung Q1 Ultra, what works, who is tackling what, etc.
[07:15] <ian_brasil> rusty: well it is sort of like this now...i just write up what takes my fancy basically which is good for me but maybe not for the whole UME
[07:15] <Mithrandir> yeah, though that's less about API docs and more about end-user docs, or developer docs
[07:16] <agoliveira> end-user docs? Product docs?
[07:17] <rusty> whatever the docs, i do recognizes from past projects that this could snow ball into a mass of random documents making it pretty unusable
[07:17] <Mithrandir> yes, I think we want to make sure we avoid that
[07:18] <rusty> ian_brasil, so are you thinking on the lines of a structured ubuntu-mobile guide?
[07:18] <ian_brasil> well something like that yes
[07:19] <Mithrandir> I say just go for it; what do you need from the rest of us?
[07:19] <rusty> if we had that, then for the upstream API documentation we could at least have a standard way of linking to the upstream documentaion (be it gnome, maemo, etc)
[07:20] <Mithrandir> sounds like a plan to me.
[07:20] <Mithrandir> ian_brasil: agreed?  Can you write that up as a spec?
[07:20] <ian_brasil> well....i would like to use the django comment system for building the actual docs
[07:21] <ian_brasil> as it is so easy to get other peoples input
[07:21] <ian_brasil> but some help with the structure as well
[07:21] <ian_brasil> like what exactly to document
[07:21] <Mithrandir> I'm not familiar with it.
[07:21] <rusty> is it http://www.djangoproject.com/ ?
[07:23] <ian_brasil> no the django book...i put something here http://proddingthe.net/ as an experiment
[07:23] <ian_brasil> this is the django book code
[07:24] <ian_brasil> and it allows you to comment on individual parts within a chapter
[07:24] <Mithrandir> I suggest you raise it on the list and try to get people to contribute there; While I absolutely agree we need docs, I'm not sure what more we can get done in this meeting.
[07:24] <Mithrandir> agoliveira: smaller agenda, hopefully
[07:24] <ian_brasil> ok...i will write up something then
[07:25] <Mithrandir> thanks
[07:25] <Mithrandir> let's move on, then
[07:25] <Mithrandir> we have a bunch of ownerless specs
[07:25] <Mithrandir> this is obviously bad.
[07:26] <kwwii> as far as the UI stuff goes, I could help keep it up to date etc.
[07:26] <Mithrandir>   - UI guide
[07:26] <Mithrandir>   - Browser
[07:26] <Mithrandir>   - Media player UI
[07:26] <Mithrandir>   - Hardware media decoding
[07:26] <Mithrandir>   - USB client
[07:26] <Mithrandir>   - Development environment
[07:26] <Mithrandir> are the ones
[07:26] <bspencer> UI guide -- Bob/Ken
[07:26] <bspencer> Browser -- Bob
[07:26] <rusty> USB client -> c. Johnson
[07:26] <bspencer> Media player -- Bob
[07:27] <Mithrandir> we need an assignee who's responsible for implmentation, and we need a drafter who is responsible for writing the spec
[07:27] <Mithrandir> they can be the same person.
[07:27] <Mithrandir> hardware media decoding and usb client are Charlies, I noted that earlier, yes.
[07:27] <kwwii> the UI guide part is kinda hard to decide on the implementation side, or?
[07:28] <Mithrandir> yes, it doesn't have an implementation, but it still needs to be completed
[07:28] <kwwii> but I'll sign up as drafter :-)
[07:28] <Mithrandir> bspencer: you're both assignee and drafter on yours?
[07:28] <bspencer> you can make me assignee and implementor for:  UI guide, Browser, Media Player UI.   (Or Ken the implementor for UI guide)
[07:28] <bspencer> Mithrandir, yes, probably.  Though Ken can help too.  
[07:29] <Mithrandir> of course, it's just who's responsible, it doesn't mean others can't chime in.
[07:29] <agoliveira> Bob The (spec) Builder (sorry Bob, couldn't resist!) :)
[07:29] <Mithrandir> agoliveira: can you take the development environment?
[07:29] <bspencer> I'm fine with both assignments
[07:29] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Yes, why not
[07:29] <Mithrandir> thanks.
[07:30] <Mithrandir> then we're at the end of the agenda: Goals for next week
[07:30] <Mithrandir> I'd like to have a meeting in a week, if that works for people.
[07:30] <agoliveira> Have the specs would be nice.
[07:30] <Mithrandir> by then, I would like all specs to be written up and maybe not yet approved, but at least ready for approval
[07:30] <rusty> I'll be flying on Thursday
[07:30] <Mithrandir> ok, we can move it to Friday if that's better
[07:31] <rusty> works for me
[07:31] <rusty> i'll be irc'ing from the OLS floor
[07:31] <agoliveira> Friday same time is ok for me too.
[07:31] <kwwii> sounds fine
[07:31] <Mithrandir> should work fine for me too
[07:32] <Mithrandir> anybody have specs they don't think they'll have ready by the end of next week?
[07:32] <bspencer> good for me
[07:32] <rusty> I would really like to see all the init scripts in place such that you can boot a device that automatically startsup to the hildon desktop without having to manually do a buch of stuff
[07:32] <bspencer> Mithrandir, I might not have all 7 done, but I'll work on them
[07:32] <rusty> Mithrandir, I'm good for the image creation spec
[07:32] <Mithrandir> bspencer: understood.
[07:33] <Mithrandir> bspencer: it's better to have five done and two unstarted than seven mostly-done, IMO.
[07:33] <bspencer> ok.
[07:33] <Mithrandir> anybody got any more business?
[07:33] <rusty> Will anyone else be at OLS next week?
[07:33] <agoliveira> I ok.
[07:34] <rusty> I'm on the hook to host a BOF about mobile stuff
[07:34] <Mithrandir> interesting; relay any interesting discussions back to us?
[07:34] <rusty> the schedule is wrong.. it talks about a paper that Tariq and I were going to write
[07:34] <amitk> rusty: what happened to the pm framework that intel was going to announce?
[07:34] <Mithrandir> ok, I think we're done with today's business; adjourned.
[07:34] <rusty> yeap, i'll report back any interesting stuff, and promote ubuntu-mobile
[07:35] <Mithrandir> you're of course free to discuss more here later, but I have to grab some food before I die of hunger.
[07:35] <amitk> Tariq mentioned it at UDS
[07:35] <agoliveira> Bye all. I have to rush to the bank but I'll be back asap.
[07:35] <ian_brasil> tchau
[07:35] <bspencer> tchuss
[07:35] <rusty> amitk, i don't know the latest status other then I know Tariq and Arjan have been shopping around the concepts some some initial design documentation to a bunch of individules
[07:36] <rusty> trying to get some mindshare
[07:36] <amitk> rusty: So nothing upcoming at OLS?
[07:37] <amitk> or PM-summit before?
[07:37] <rusty> well, Tariq had to cancel his trip at the last minute for personal reasons
[07:37] <rusty> amitk, i need to ping Tariq, but he is on vacation right now
[07:38] <amitk> right... 
[08:43] <rusty> question for the crowed... how do we see X starting on ubuntu-mobile?  On a normal desktop you have gdm (or whatever kde uses) that is launched by a startup script and handles starting the user session.  What do we want for an Ubuntu-Mobile device?
[08:46] <bspencer> moimart, are your there?  i think I found my big
[08:46] <bspencer> bug
[08:46] <tko> direct login if there's only one user, login screen otherwise? or rule out multiuser cases?
[08:47] <moimart> bspencer: im here
[08:47] <moimart> bspencer: what was it?
[08:49] <agoliveira> rusty: I'm with tko on that.
[08:50] <rusty> this makes me think we need some kind of simple desktop manager (or whatever the right name is)
[08:50] <bspencer> moimart, my code wasn't running
[08:50] <bspencer> :-\
[08:51] <moimart> oops :)
[08:51] <moimart> what did you do for not getting it running?
[08:51] <rusty> agoliveira, or... maybe something like this already exists?
[08:51] <bspencer> now I see transparency and my panel, but it crashes about 1sec after display
[08:51] <bspencer> I just got that and am trying to figure out the backtrace.
[08:52] <moimart> cool
[08:52] <moimart> tomorrow ill take a look at the code you sent me
[08:52] <bspencer> very.  I'll send you new code tonight if I get stuck.
[08:52] <moimart> ok even better :)
[08:53] <agoliveira> rusty: It deppends on what you want. You can just auto-login to a default account and start the enviromment right away.
[08:54] <rusty> agoliveira, and how do we do that?
[08:55] <rusty> agoliveira, are you just suggesting writing a startup script that calls startx with a .xinitrc file in the user directory that launches the session elements?
[08:55] <agoliveira> rusty: Well, I'm a little rusty (pun intended :) ) on that but back in the old days one could tap into inittab to do that.
[08:56] <rusty> agoliveira, but... with inittab you were calling a display manager... not just directly starting X
[08:56] <rusty> display manager... that's the term i was looking for before
[08:57] <agoliveira> rusty: IIRC it wasn't that way before but, as I said, I don't know how this is done nowadays.
[08:58] <rusty> in current ubuntu (at least in feisty and gutsy), you have a GNOME Display Manager init script
[08:58] <rusty> in the past you had something like "x:5:once:/etc/X11/prefdm -nodaemon" in inittab
[08:59] <rusty> where prefdm would just find the correct display manager
[08:59] <agoliveira> rusty: Yes, GDM is there
[09:00] <rusty> but i'm guessing gdm is a bit overkill for what we need
[09:01] <agoliveira> rusty: exactly, just a startx of some form should suffice. 
[09:01] <rusty> I'm tempted to just go an create a super simple display manager that for now is just a init script that sources stuff in a standard location (to allow other packages to add whatever), reads a config file (to get things like 'auto login bob), and then calls startx
[09:02] <tko> gpe had a login screen of sorts.. no idea how reusable it might be
[09:02] <agoliveira> rusty: I guess that would be ok.
[09:11] <jacob-laptop> BenC, amitk, i am trying to tag the release for poulsbo patches, it gave me the following error, can you take a look?
[09:11] <jacob-laptop> jacob@putvin:~/localDev/ubuntu/jpan9-git-tree$ git-tag -s -m Ubuntu-2.6.22-6.21  Ubuntu-2.6.22-6.21
[09:11] <jacob-laptop> gpg: skipped "jacob <jacob@putvin.dp.intel.com>": secret key not available
[09:11] <jacob-laptop> gpg: signing failed: secret key not available
[09:11] <jacob-laptop> failed to sign the tag with GPG.
[09:11] <jacob-laptop> jacob@putvin:~/localDev/ubuntu/jpan9-git-tree$ git-tag -s -m Ubuntu-2.6.22-6.21  Ubuntu-2.6.22-6.21
[09:11] <jacob-laptop> gpg: skipped "jacob <jacob@putvin.dp.intel.com>": secret key not available
[09:11] <jacob-laptop> gpg: signing failed: secret key not available
[09:11] <jacob-laptop> failed to sign the tag with GPG.
[09:11] <jacob-laptop> jacob@putvin:~/localDev/ubuntu/jpan9-git-tree$ gpg --list-keys jacob
[09:11] <jacob-laptop> pub   1024D/DEF6F140 2007-06-21
[09:11] <jacob-laptop> uid                  jacob pan (public key) <jacob.jun.pan@intel.com>
[09:11] <jacob-laptop> sub   2048g/B2A1D012 2007-06-21
[09:11] <jacob-laptop> pub   1024D/3192912B 2007-06-21
[09:11] <jacob-laptop> uid                  jacob (public key) <jacob@putvin.dp.intel.com>
[09:11] <jacob-laptop> sub   2048g/A9EB4A9D 2007-06-21
[09:12] <tko> umm, you're missing the secret key
[09:13] <tko> gpg --list-secret-keys
[09:13] <jacob-laptop> jacob@putvin:~/localDev/ubuntu/jpan9-git-tree$ gpg --list-secret-keys
[09:13] <jacob-laptop> /home/jacob/.gnupg/secring.gpg
[09:13] <jacob-laptop> ------------------------------
[09:13] <jacob-laptop> sec   1024D/DEF6F140 2007-06-21
[09:13] <jacob-laptop> uid                  jacob pan (public key) <jacob.jun.pan@intel.com>
[09:13] <jacob-laptop> ssb   2048g/B2A1D012 2007-06-21
[09:13] <jacob-laptop> sec   1024D/3192912B 2007-06-21
[09:13] <jacob-laptop> uid                  jacob (public key) <jacob@putvin.dp.intel.com>
[09:13] <jacob-laptop> ssb   2048g/A9EB4A9D 2007-06-21
[09:14] <jacob-laptop> tko: does it look right?
[09:15] <tko> other that the difference of " (public key)" can't really see a problem.. I don't know how git picks the key
[09:16] <tko> you could try passing "-u 3192912B" to git-tag 
[09:16] <jacob-laptop> tko: did you use "gpg --gen-key  " ?
[09:16] <tko> I haven't used git with gp
[09:16] <tko> g
[09:17] <jacob-laptop> tko: it is in ubuntu kernel guide, it suggest tag the release for submitting patches
[09:20] <jacob-laptop> ok, i used -u option in git tag and it works
[09:20] <jacob-laptop> jacob@putvin:~/localDev/ubuntu/jpan9-git-tree$ git-tag -u jacob -s -m Ubuntu-2.6.22-6.21  Ubuntu-2.6.22-6.21
[09:20] <jacob-laptop> You need a passphrase to unlock the secret key for
[09:20] <jacob-laptop> user: "jacob pan (public key) <jacob.jun.pan@intel.com>"
[09:20] <jacob-laptop> 1024-bit DSA key, ID DEF6F140, created 2007-06-21
[09:20] <jacob-laptop> tko: thanks
[09:20] <tko> uhh.. stupid git.. it should know to skip the realname of the mail address IMO
[09:37] <BenC> jacob-laptop: you don't tag releases
[09:37] <BenC> jacob-laptop: we'll tag them when we do an upload
[09:38] <BenC> jacob-laptop: tagging is for uploading to the archive...to submit patches, just commit them and send a pull request to kernel-team
[09:59] <agoliveira> BIG FAT WARNING: There's a bug in the hildon-desktop package. If you install it on a real Gutsy, it will send your menus to heck. I just screwd up my notebook.
[09:59] <stgraber> agoliveira: really ? When does that happen ?
[10:00] <stgraber> I installed it on my gutsy test computer a minute ago and it seems to work
[10:00] <agoliveira> stgraber: Just now. I have being using chroots so far and was all ok.
[10:01] <agoliveira> stgraber:Well, I'll see later. Meeting now.
[10:07] <matt_c> agoliveira: ahh I thought that might have been unrelated to ubuntu-mobile, thanks for the heads up :)
[10:09] <agoliveira> matt_c: No it's bug in the hildon-desktop package. It's replacing the gnome menus. I'll fix that until tomorrow.
[10:09] <matt_c> agoliveira: no problem at all, I was just checking it out inside a VM.
[10:16] <cfj> Ben and/or Jacob: Did the patches get in??
[10:21] <anode> newbie question: what's the best way to download the code and start playing with it?
[10:21] <agoliveira> anode: For the source, launchpad.
[10:22] <matt_c> anode: I was playing with it last night by downloading gutsy tribe 1, installing ubuntu-mobile and then running it over on a Xephyr session
[10:23] <agoliveira> anode: If you just want start and play, check this out: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/HildonDesktopManualProcedure
[10:24] <matt_c> Indeed, that's what I used after apt-get installing ubuntu-mobile
[10:24] <anode> thanks agoliveira and matt_c, starting to make sense now. 
[10:26] <anode> what's the main expected target hardware? Intel devices or nokia?
[10:26] <anode> I have a nokia n800
[10:28] <agoliveira> anode: For now, Intel LPIA
[10:28] <jacob-laptop> Ben, cfj , i tagged and uploaded kernel git, I also sent an email to kernel-team for you to pull
[10:35] <matt_c> I'm excited about running ubuntu-mobile on plain old x86 hardware.
[10:35] <happycube> i can't wait to get something silverthorne based
[10:35] <happycube> ^ 45nm pentium-m, 2w, 2500 dies/300mm wafer
[10:35] <anode> so is anyone testing with a nokia n800?
[10:35] <happycube> i don't think nokia releases enough info to do a fully independent build
[10:35] <happycube> there are parts of the hw that are closed :(
[10:35] <happycube> or *were*
[10:35] <happycube> ^ can someone fact-check that?
[10:35] <anode> happycube: which parts are closed? Or were?
[10:37] <etrunko> happycube, anode: there is an independent initiative following the openmoko model
[10:37] <happycube> sweet - website?
[10:37] <happycube> i'd love to have an independent build on my 770
[10:37] <etrunko> http://osmtc.indt.org/projects/mamona
[10:38] <lucasr> etrunko, couldn't track be less ugly?
[10:39] <etrunko> lucasr: don't think so
[10:39] <lucasr> etrunko, :-)
[10:39] <etrunko> it's just the default theme
[10:39] <etrunko> :)
[10:39] <etrunko> our designers are too busy atm
[10:39] <lucasr> etrunko, everyone just uses this default theme
[10:39] <lucasr> :-)
[10:39] <etrunko> lucasr: heh
[10:40] <etrunko> happycube: vivijim has blogged about a presentation he did this week. it's in planet maemo
[10:41] <anode> I take it there are a lot of intel guys and gals around here?
[10:41] <rusty> yeap... a few of us
[10:43] <lucasr> this channel is getting really crowded
[10:44] <happycube> i've been thinking about intel's 2008 lineup... this segment could really explode ;)
[10:44] <happycube> esp if you count asus eee's and things like that...
[10:47] <anode> so if anyone outside intel wants to contribute, what _available_ embedded hardware is there to run on ?
[10:47] <matt_c> anode: an old Pentium laptop? :)
[10:48] <rusty> the existing lineup of what vendors have called UMPC's
[10:48] <anode> matt_c: my pockets are too small
[10:48] <matt_c> heh
[10:50] <anode> rusty: the "I'll try to run Vista if it kills me, or burns your hand" UMPCs. Though the idea was to use cool efficient linux to get away from those beasts....
[10:50] <happycube> yeah
[10:50] <happycube> they can probably be reprogrammed
[10:51] <happycube> i hope amd can get something together for this space - we need the competition - but they won't and maybe even can't!
[10:51] <rusty> the existing UMPC's are pretty bulky and the battery life sucks... but they help our for GUI / infrastructure development
[10:51] <happycube> they're talking about an answer to santa rosa next year, lol... and of course no linux user would want it because they won't support linux anywhere near as well ;)
[10:51] <matt_c> Via's new *-ITX is pretty small too.
[10:51] <happycube> yeah
[10:51] <happycube> i think via's closer... silverthorne screams "c7 killer"
[10:52] <happycube> via should've gone to integrated north bridges a year ago... they have a nice small-footprint cpu and a huge nb by comparison
[10:52] <agoliveira> I've heard some horror histories about linux on C7. Never got my hand one one tough.
[10:52] <happycube> i haven't tried either
[10:53] <matt_c> I have an old mini-itx that ran debian well
[10:53] <happycube> i sooo wish via was selling mini-itx boards for $50-100
[10:54] <happycube> when they first came out the boards were dirt cheap... but they never came down and the rest of the world did
[10:54] <happycube> asus has a box with mobo+case+psu for $75 at 'egg
[10:55] <happycube> (unfortunatly via cheaped on capacitors... epia-original had sanyo... epia-m had gsc... near 100% failure rate!)
[10:55] <happycube> they got better eventually, but ouch.
[10:56] <happycube> (re gsc... i don't think sanyo had a bad batch ;) )
[10:56] <happycube> anyhow i'm looking forward to $200 laptops and $400-500 ultramobiles
[11:21] <ppc> where can i find general architecure / sys design or something like about ubuntu mobile please ?
[11:22] <ppc> hello
[11:23] <anode> so is ubuntu-mobile definitely intel only or do nokia n800 owners have a place here ?
[11:24] <etrunko> anode: i think we have a place here because they share (almost) the same infrastructure
[11:24] <rusty> anode, the initial focus is on LPIA hardware, but the project is not exclusive to x86 architectures.... btw, wouldn't the first step be getting a ubuntu arm port?
[11:25] <rusty> etrunko, that is true
[11:25] <tko> putting money where the mouth is or something.. :)
[11:26] <anode> seems to me that since the n800 is out there already a port should not be too hard
[11:30] <_gpg_> got disconnecfed
[11:31] <_gpg_> i was asking where can i find any syste/module designs or system architecure of ubuntu mobile
[11:32] <_gpg_> i'm working on realtime embedded systems for automative systems and wanted to contribute to gnome mobile, the mailing list seems to be discontinued
[11:33] <tko> _gpg_: which list?
[11:34] <_gpg_> tko gnome for mobile device mobile-devel-list@gnome.org
[11:34] <tko> oh, it's just quiet
[11:35] <_gpg_> tko the latests one i read wasnt encouraging
[11:35] <_gpg_> well
[11:45] <_gpg_> good night