[01:34] <LaserJock> bah
[01:34] <LaserJock> bdoin just left when I needed him
[04:01] <sbalneav> LaserJock: man, nbd-server is COMPLETELY broken
[04:02] <sbalneav> It's so utterly, utterly broken.
[04:02] <sbalneav> In the entire history of broken, there's never been a broken more broken than nbd-server broken.
[04:03] <sbalneav> If you look up "broken" in the dictionary, there's a picture of a dead nbd-server lying on the floor.
[04:03] <`6og> sbalneav, is something not working?
[04:03] <`6og> ;)
[04:03] <sbalneav> Nah, everything's fine :)
[04:04] <sbalneav> EXCEPT NBD-SERVER!!!!!!111oneone
[04:04] <`6og> lol
[04:06] <ath> could I ask somebody for help with edubuntu?
[04:07] <ath> I am a little bit stuck
[04:08] <sbalneav> Yes, I give you permission to ask.
[04:08] <sbalneav> :)
[04:08] <ath> haha
[04:08] <ath> thanks
[04:09] <ath> I am trying to get edu running for our small highschool
[04:09] <ath> we have about 8 computers and I want them all networked to a server
[04:10] <ath> I am trying to get edu working first on vmware server
[04:12] <sbalneav> umm
[04:12] <ath> and now I am trying to get the other machines to boot to the network.  The rom-o-matic thing is hard to do.  Do I have to open the box to see what kind of nic or is there a way of seeing the info in  ubuntu?
[04:13] <sbalneav> What, if you boot ubuntu on the client?
[04:13] <sbalneav> You can download a universal etherboot boot floppy
[04:13] <sbalneav> http://etherboot.anadex.de or ftp://k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/pub/K12LTSP/Universal_boot_floppy
[04:14] <ath> sorry, I am not being clear.  I installed edubuntu workstation thinking that it was the thin client.
[04:14] <sbalneav> 
[04:14] <ath> then I found out that you need to boot into the network
[04:14] <sbalneav> So you have a server, right?
[04:15] <ath> I do have a server on the server machine.. but I am running it in vmware server on my desktop
[04:16] <sbalneav> So, the server machine's a "virtual" server, correct?
[04:17] <ath> yes
[04:17] <sbalneav> I don't know how well edubuntu's going to work from vmware, since I don't have vmware.
[04:17] <sbalneav> However, depending on the client machines, they may already be able to boot off the network, depending on the machine.
[04:17] <sbalneav> What kind of machines are they?
[04:18] <ath> sempron processors, boxes put together in some guys little computer shop
[04:18] <ath> they are fine for desktops, I am just tired of servicing all of them
[04:19] <`6og> ath, semprons should pxe boot
[04:19] <sbalneav> ok, you might want to look in the bios setup on those machines.  I'll wager they can PXE boot.
[04:19] <sbalneav> If so, you don't need etherboot.
[04:19] <ath> really?  Oh, I hope that is the case
[04:20] <ath> if I am able to select pxe boot I shouldn't have to load anything else on the machine right?
[04:20] <sbalneav> Yep!
[04:20] <`6og> ath, if your pxe booting you dont need cd/hdd/floppy drives at all
[04:20] <sbalneav> Now, whether or not you'll get them to SEE the virtual edubuntu machine's another matter entirely.
[04:21] <ath> really?
[04:21] <ath> I will have to tinker with this for the next few days.
[04:22] <ath> thanks for helping me.  I'll come back later.
[04:22] <`6og> as long as the virtual machine is not being firewalled out of action by the host, it should be fine
[04:22] <ath> oh, I don't think it is.
[04:22] <ath> the firewall on the router won't do it?
[04:23] <`6og> dont know
[04:23] <ath> ok, well thanks for now
[04:35] <LaserJock> sbalneav: well, that's no good
[04:36] <LaserJock> coming in a little late
[04:46] <sbalneav> Man, how can I revert to the previous version?
[05:02] <LaserJock> sbalneav: you can grab it off of Launchpad
[05:02] <sbalneav> this completely and utterly breaks all of ltsp.
[05:03] <LaserJock> will 2.8.7 work?
[05:03] <sbalneav> Launchpad needs a "DEFCON5" setting. :)
[05:03] <sbalneav> yeah, that was the previous version.
[05:03] <LaserJock> I think that's called Critical ;-)
[05:03] <LaserJock> do you want source of .debs?
[05:03] <LaserJock> s/of/or/
[05:04] <sbalneav> both, actually
[05:04] <sbalneav> I'd love to dig into the code and find out.  What I need to see is if the UPSTREAM has hacked this out, or if wouter@debian's hozed us.
[05:06] <sbalneav> bug filed.
[05:06] <sbalneav> Now to look up upstream.  I think it's on kernel.org
[05:08] <LaserJock> source is: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nbd/1:2.8.7-5ubuntu1
[05:08] <LaserJock> i386 .debs are: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nbd/1:2.8.7-5ubuntu1/+build/338868
[05:09] <sbalneav> Cripes.
[05:09] <sbalneav> It's right in upstream
[05:11] <sbalneav> gaaahhh
[05:36] <LaserJock> sbalneav: have you looked for a bug report in Debian?
[07:52] <LaserJock> highvoltage: you're up?
[07:59] <highvoltage> LaserJock: yep
[07:59] <LaserJock> isn't quite early there?
[07:59] <highvoltage> LaserJock: a bit early for me for a Saturday... but strange things happen :)
[07:59] <highvoltage> 8am
[08:00] <LaserJock> feel like doing some bug triage? :-)
[08:03] <highvoltage> LaserJock: I only have about 20 minutes before I have to leave for an appointment, something I could do in that timespace?
[08:07] <highvoltage> LaserJock: if I can help with that later, please send me a ping, let me know what I can do
[08:12] <LaserJock> highvoltage: I was just on an Edubuntu bug fixing kick today
[08:12] <highvoltage> LaserJock: ah, ok. ogra resolved quite a bunch of them earlier this week, I'll go throught the list when I get back home and see how much is left and work through it
[08:13] <highvoltage> LaserJock: I did some website stuff last night, edubuntu.org is now on Drupal 5.1, and the https links work, and Matthew is in the US so he could at least get some colour scheme modifications for us
[08:14] <highvoltage> we're basing on the Canonical.com theme instead of the Ubuntu.com one, it's better and has support for more stuff.
[08:19] <LaserJock> highvoltage: so when will it go live?
[10:15] <LaserJock> ogra: I looked through all the gcompris bugs today and was able to close a few.
[12:00] <`6og> could you use a sparc server with i386 chroots as an ltsp server?
[12:10] <juliux> yes you can
[12:10] <juliux> i installed ubuntu-server on a sparc
[12:11] <`6og> interesting.
[12:11] <juliux> then i installed the ltsp packages and i copied a i386er chroot from an i386er computer to the sparc
[12:11] <juliux> its running fine
[12:11] <juliux> but i only tested it with an old ultra 60 sparc
[12:11] <`6og> i assume it doesnt support stuff like flash?
[12:12] <`6og> workstation5 is probably the oldest there
[12:12] <juliux> hm i didnt tested flash
[12:12] <juliux> because it is not my sparc;) and i dont want to have the ultra6 sparc here at home
[12:12] <`6og> hehe
[12:13] <juliux> the sun monitor is to big for my desk
[12:13] <`6og> wonder how netbsd runs on 32bit sparc, i want to use them for /something/
[12:13] <`6og> lol
[01:11] <rockprincess> hello all!
[01:11] <juliux> hi rockprincess
[01:12] <`6og> rockprincess, !!
[01:12] <`6og> good to see you again!
[01:12] <rockprincess> hi juliux and `6og!
[01:12] <`6og> :)
[01:12] <rockprincess> I've got a serious problem :(
[01:13] <rockprincess> http://yapa.codein.at/?id=40 ... it's all explained here, maybe some of you know what causes it, I'm totally clueless
[01:14] <juliux> rockprincess, did you try to run e2fsck /dev/hda7 ?
[01:14] <rockprincess> juliux: not yet...because i have no idea what it actually does...I was worried that I could loose some data?!
[01:15] <juliux> rockprincess, you als can try to run e2fsck -b 8103 /dev/hda7
[01:15] <juliux> rockprincess, e2fsck is a programm to check/repair the filesystem
[01:15] <`6og> rockprincess, what does `sudo fdisk -l` give?
[01:16] <rockprincess> juliux: ohh i see, can I just run it in a terminal right now, or shall i boot into recovery mode?
[01:16] <`6og> also `mount`
[01:16] <juliux> re
[01:16] <juliux> rockprincess, you can try it now
[01:16] <juliux> rockprincess, at first e2fsck /dev/hda7
[01:17] <juliux> if that not works with the -b 8139 option
[01:18] <rockprincess> `6og: http://yapa.codein.at/?id=41 that's what sudo fdisk -l says
[01:18] <`6og> rockprincess, the devices dont exist
[01:18] <`6og> rockprincess, have you unplugged the drive/moved the sytem around?
[01:18] <rockprincess> `6og: it does....it's inside my pc
[01:19] <`6og> rockprincess, not to the kernel they dont
[01:19] <juliux> rockprincess, i think best way is to reboot
[01:19] <rockprincess> `6og: not at all.....that device is actually my kubuntu system for my other pc....but it has some important data, that i wanted to move to the new pc now...
[01:20] <juliux> rockprincess, the you should get again the thing where it says there is an error press strg+d to reboot normal
[01:20] <rockprincess> juliux: everytime i boot with this hd plugged in, this error message appears, when i go to fstab and uncomment these partitions, then the error message doesn't appear
[01:20] <juliux> but this time you e2fsck in this "terminal"
[01:20] <`6og> rockprincess, the kernel cant see the whole hdd anymore (hda). something must have caused it - drive dying, kernel update (perhaps), and a few other things could cuae it
[01:20] <`6og> *cause
[01:21] <`6og> rockprincess, does the file /var/log/fsck/checkfs exist?
[01:21] <rockprincess> `6og: kernel update probably, because I installed ubuntu studio on the same hard drive as my edubuntu system (which i'm on at the moment)....
[01:21] <rockprincess> `6og: checking if it exists....one second...
[01:22] <rockprincess> `6og: it's there....
[01:23] <rockprincess> shall i pastebin it?
[01:24] <`6og> juliux, what do you think?
[01:24] <juliux> i think reboot the system, see what happen then
[01:25] <rockprincess> `6og: that's my checkfs ... http://yapa.codein.at/?id=42
[01:25] <juliux> if it tells you again that e2fsck fails run it manual
[01:25] <juliux> then you get more errors
[01:25] <rockprincess> ok good idea!
[01:25] <juliux> fsck.ext3: No such file or directory while trying to open /dev/hda7 /dev/hda7)
[01:25] <juliux> The superblock could not be read or does not describe a correct ext2 filesystem. If the device is valid and it really contains an ext2 filesystem (and not swap or ufs or something else), then the superblock is corrupt, and you might try running e2fsck with an alternate superblock:
[01:25] <juliux> e2fsck -b 8193 <device>
[01:25] <juliux> there is says everthing what you should do;)
[01:26] <rockprincess> juliux: can i run it in the terminal, or shall i reboot? because if i ran it in the terminal, I could copy and paste the output whereas when I reboot i'd have to write it down?
[01:26] <`6og> it forgets to meantion crossing your fingers ;)
[01:26] <juliux> if you then start normal the device is not working because the kernel unplug it
[01:26] <juliux> rockprincess, reboot pls,
[01:26] <rockprincess> ok
[01:26] <juliux> rockprincess, if you get this mainteance shell and you start then with strg+d normal you have no access on the partition
[01:27] <rockprincess> is it risky? can i loose any data doing it?
[01:27] <juliux> you shouldn loose any data
[01:27] <rockprincess> yeah that's what I thought as well....
[01:27] <rockprincess> ok, hopefully back in a few minutes....
[01:29] <juliux> `6og, to come back to your sparc, what kind of sparc do you have?
[01:29] <`6og> hehe.
[01:30] <`6og> juliux, i have 8 or 9 'working', and half a dozen for parts
[01:30] <`6og> juliux, sparcstation[5,10] , sparcstation10, sunblade 1[5,0] 0, 4x ultra5
[01:30] <`6og> um, sparc*server*10
[01:31] <juliux> cool
[01:32] <juliux> if i have the money i want to buy a quad sparc ;)
[01:32] <`6og> hehe.
[01:32] <`6og> i just want a niagra, i dont care how many die's there are :)
[01:33] <juliux> i think a quad sprac is a pretty good ltsp server;)
[01:33] <`6og> hehe. pity it wouldnt make a good heater *needs heating atm*
[01:33] <`6og> perhaps i need a Power6 system for winter, and a niagra for summer ;)
[01:34] <juliux> hehe
[01:34] <`6og> juliux, do you have much sparc gear yourself?
[01:34] <juliux> a power4+ system is also good for the summer
[01:34] <`6og> sparc or any not intel stuff
[01:34] <juliux> i have no sparc;)
[01:34] <`6og> i only have old G3 macs :(
[01:34] <`6og> on ppc front
[01:34] <`6og> ah :o go get some :P
[01:35] <juliux> but a friend of me has around 20 ultra20 sparcs, and an ultra 60, ultra40
[01:35] <`6og> 20? wth? he into clustering?
[01:35] <juliux> his idea was to cluster them but he didnt do it since today
[01:35] <juliux> he gets all the sparcs from the university for 10 each
[01:36] <`6og> wow. why cant uni's in australia be like that :|
[01:36] <`6og> that said, i've got some pretty funky kit from uni's
[01:37] <`6og> juliux, are all your systems IA32/AMD64, or do you do 'alternative' stuff?
[01:38] <rockprincess> back
[01:38] <`6og> wb :)
[01:38] <rockprincess> unfortunately e2fsck didn't work :(
[01:38] <juliux> `6og,  i have a via epia system, and amd athlon xp 2400+, an pentium d and a core 2 duo
[01:39] <juliux> rockprincess, did you try it with -b 8139 option?
[01:39] <`6og> rockprincess, :S
[01:39] <juliux> `6og, i have no space for alternative stuff and not realy time to play with it
[01:39] <`6og> juliux, just the 4? cool :)
[01:39] <rockprincess> juliux: yep.... root@rosasgasse: e2fsck -b 8193 /dev/hda7
[01:39] <`6og> i understand the problem *g*
[01:40] <rockprincess> juliux: it says e2fsck: No such file or directory while trying to open /dev/hda7
[01:40] <juliux> `6og, but if i get a job this summer i will buy a xeon dual for xen;)
[01:40] <juliux> rockprincess, sounds not good
[01:40] <juliux> rockprincess, did you e2fsck  in the maintance shell?
[01:41] <`6og> rockprincess, can you pastebin dmesg (or email it to us/me)?
[01:41] <rockprincess> juliux: yep, after hitting CTRL+D then it booted edubuntu
[01:41] <`6og> dmesg |mail -s "dmesg output from `hostname`" karl@thehut.org.au
[01:41] <rockprincess> `6og: sure
[01:41] <juliux> rockprincess, so you try to run e2fsck bevor pressing crlt +d
[01:41] <rockprincess> juliux: indeed
[01:42] <juliux> rockprincess, hmm
[01:42] <rockprincess> `6og: what shall insert for hostname?
[01:42] <`6og> rockprincess, shell should do it for you
[01:43] <`6og> if i got that right ;)
[01:43] <juliux> rockprincess, you also can try to do it from a livecd
[01:43] <juliux> rockprincess, because then is nothing running from the local harddisk
[01:43] <rockprincess> it worked really fine before installing ubuntu studio (which obviously uses a different kernel version)
[01:43] <juliux> rockprincess, did you try to boot another kernel?
[01:44] <rockprincess> juliux: booted it with knoppix and it worked fine....and then booted this hd (hda) from my other pc with its kubuntu and it worked fine as well
[01:44] <juliux> rockprincess, did you also try to use an other kernel? did you run e2fsck from a livecd?
[01:46] <rockprincess> juliux: nope, haven't tried neither of them....these are the ubuntu studio kernels kernel 2.6.20-15-lowlatency and kernel 2.6.20-15-generic...and then there are the usual edubuntu edgy kernels 2.6.17-11-386 and 2.6.17-10-386
[01:46] <juliux> rockprincess, try the normal edgy kernel
[01:47] <juliux> rockprincess, it he ubuntustudio kernel are some flags set which are not set in a normal kernel
[01:47] <rockprincess> i've tried the 2.6.17-11-386 one
[01:47] <rockprincess> juliux: shall i try the 2.6.17-10-386 one now?
[01:48] <juliux> so you allready tried an other kernel;)
[01:48] <rockprincess> juliux: ahh, so it this (ubuntustudio kernel) the root of all evil? ;)
[01:48] <juliux> rockprincess, could be
[01:48] <juliux> i havent tested ubuntustudio
[01:48] <juliux> but i think it is good to use an not ubuntustudio kernel
[01:49] <rockprincess> juliux: i haven't tried it with 2.6.17-10-386 yet...
[01:49] <juliux> it that the old edgy kernel?
[01:49] <rockprincess> i assume
[01:49] <juliux> you can give it a try
[01:51] <rockprincess> will give it a try, if that fails then I'll try e2fsck once again...if that fails as well, then I will just remove the hda disk and just burn the important data on a cd or dvd....
[01:52] <rockprincess> i really shouldn't have installed ubuntu studio....i regret it now...
[01:53] <juliux> in the future use vmware for testing;)
[01:53] <rockprincess> true, good idea!
[01:53] <juliux> or use an extra pc for testing
[03:30] <iTurtle> How can I convince my school to use edubuntu?
[03:38] <sbalneav> ogra: ping
[03:38] <ogra> sbalneav, pongie
[03:38] <sbalneav> hey
[03:38] <ogra> yes i know nbd is broken :(((
[03:39] <ogra> fiddling with it the whole day already
[03:39] <sbalneav> lol
[03:39] <ogra> it seems to not run by inetd anymore
[03:39] <sbalneav> no, I filed a bug
[03:39] <sbalneav> It's like, horribly broken.
[03:39] <ogra> but if i run it as standalone we miss out the keepalive stuff
[03:39] <ogra> no, it works fine standalone
[03:39] <sbalneav> right
[03:40] <sbalneav> Running it standalone isn't,IMHO, a good options.
[03:40] <sbalneav> upstream broke it.
[03:40] <ogra> if they would have a proper keepalive option i'D use it like that
[03:40] <ogra> but they dont
[03:40] <sbalneav> We have two options, as I see it:
[03:40] <sbalneav> 1) Revert from 2.9.3 to 2.8.mumble.
[03:40] <ogra> 2.7
[03:40] <sbalneav> yeah
[03:41] <sbalneav> or 2) fix it ourselves, properly.
[03:41] <ogra> err, no
[03:41] <ogra> 2.8 was right
[03:41] <sbalneav> ok
[03:41] <ogra> well
[03:41] <sbalneav> Which do you prefer?
[03:41] <ogra> if i would find why its not starting i'D ficx it
[03:41] <ogra> its not very verbose
[03:41] <sbalneav> I know why.
[03:41] <ogra> tell me
[03:41] <sbalneav> they've literally #if 0'd that part of the flipping code out!
[03:42] <ogra> for port=0 ?
[03:42] <sbalneav> he seems to have done a fairly major re-write of the code, and I'm just hazarding a guess, but looks like he was simply too (lazy, tired) to fix up that part
[03:43] <sbalneav> so it's just broken,and commented out.
[03:43] <ogra> is it broken ?
[03:43] <ogra> did you try ?
[03:43] <sbalneav> yeah
[03:43] <sbalneav> yeah
[03:43] <sbalneav> it needs fixing
[03:43] <ogra> meh
[03:43] <sbalneav> It's certainly within my power to fix: it's not that complicated a program.
[03:43] <ogra> reverting is bad ...
[03:44] <ogra> we'd loose upstream security support
[03:44] <sbalneav> Well, one supposes the idea would be to send it up to upstream
[03:44] <ogra> yeah
[03:44] <sbalneav> and say "look, you borked stuff we needed, here's the fix"
[03:45] <sbalneav> So, should I work on that today?
[03:45] <ogra> if you have an idea about it i'd really appreciate that
[03:45] <sbalneav> Leave it with me.
[03:45] <ogra> i'm around for an upload
[03:46] <ogra> (somehow need to get tribe2 in shape as well)
[03:46] <sbalneav> I've got lots of real life stuff to do, but I'll work on it this afternoon and evening.
[03:46] <sbalneav> Try to have something for you tomorrow
[03:46] <sbalneav> sigh
[03:46] <ogra> dont put pressure on yourself please
[03:46] <sbalneav> We really didn't need this complication :)
[03:47] <ogra> nah, really not
[03:47] <sbalneav> %&%(&^!& upstream :)
[03:47] <ogra> i wouldnt have expected it at all after vagrants praise of wouter ad his improvements the last days
[03:47] <sbalneav> ok, it's just coding.  Got a bit of time before the kids start demanding breakfast, I'll tear into it.
[03:47] <ogra> but to be honest i dont see any improvements
[03:47] <sbalneav> no
[03:48] <ogra> its just complicating it
[03:48] <sbalneav> he's done a ton of stuff to parse a ruddy config file you didn't need
[03:48] <ogra> yeah
[03:48] <ogra> the client has a -persist optin now btw
[03:48] <ogra> undocumented
[03:49] <ogra> it will automatically attempt a reconnect if the connection fails
[03:49] <sbalneav> well, that's sorta useful.
[03:49] <ogra> problem is that unionfs only likes that two or three times ... then i et a bus error
[03:49] <ogra> *get
[03:50] <ogra> else we could work with timeout on the server side and -persist on the client side
[03:50] <ogra> that would give us keepalive from the static nbd-server+
[03:51] <sbalneav> Lets fix it properly.  We need the inetd start for swapping to work right.
[03:51] <sbalneav> i.e. create a file, etc.
[03:54] <ogra> where the heck did you file the bug ? i dont find a bugtracker on sf.net
[03:57] <sbalneav> oh, in launchpad
[03:57] <sbalneav> against nbd-server
[03:57] <ogra> ah. k
[03:57] <ogra> dont care about swapping now ...
[03:57] <ogra> its easier to do modifications for us if we use nbdrootd and nbdswapd
[03:58] <ogra> so i'd like to keep the setup we have ... which means we can keep the file creation in nbdswapd
[04:00] <sbalneav> right
[04:00] <sbalneav> So, we just need to fix nbd-server :)
[04:00] <ogra> yeah
[04:00] <ogra> btw your new greeter is awesome
[04:00] <sbalneav> fixing :)
[04:01] <sbalneav> which, the one that listens to stdin?
[04:01] <ogra> yeah
[04:01] <ogra> i dont understand why the propmt text is so far off though
[04:02] <ogra> you didnt drop any adjustment for it but its not centered
[04:02] <sbalneav> You looked at it?  I don't have anything in ldm yet to talk to it, but I was quite proud of how quickly I managed to get that working
[04:02] <sbalneav> hm
[04:02] <ogra> i wonder if it was just a matter of luck that it fitted in my code
[04:02] <sbalneav> Well, I'll figure it out.
[04:02] <sbalneav> Some guy on #gtk+ gave me exactly what I needed, then it was easy
[04:02] <ogra> its a trivial one liner to add an adjustment ... i just wonder wh it worked before
[04:03] <sbalneav> heh
[04:03] <sbalneav> there's a LOT of things that still confuse me about gtk
[04:03] <ogra> really ?
[04:03] <sbalneav> I spent 15 minutes with a pad of paper drawing boxes, trying to figure out all the vbox, hbox, vbox2, etc.
[04:03] <sbalneav> yeah, I'm leaning fast.
[04:04] <ogra> heh, yeah, thats the hard part about gtk
[04:04] <sbalneav> This is the first time I've ever done any graphics programming.
[04:04] <sbalneav> I'm not a UI guy :)
[04:04] <ogra> but beyond layout stuff i find it very easy
[04:05] <sbalneav> One thing I'm getting by working on Ubuntu is an education :)
[04:05] <ogra> heh
[04:17] <andrew____> need advice on network setup...I'll have a mix of thin clients, Linux clients (fat), and windows clients...how can I get all of these to authenticate against the same userbase and file system?
[04:39] <ogra> sbalneav, seen my bug update ?
[04:39] <sbalneav> no
[04:39] <ogra> seems vagrant already filed it for 2.7
[04:39] <sbalneav> I'll look
[04:40] <ogra> and it showed up accidentially in 2.8
[04:40] <ogra> looks like upstream doesnt like inetd
[04:40] <ogra> grmbl
[04:42] <sbalneav> Upstream's gonna have to deal :)
[04:43] <sbalneav> 'cuz *I* like inetd :)
[04:43] <ogra> heh
[04:43] <ogra> i'd be fine either way ... if nbd-server gets a proper timeout function i'm fine as well
[04:44] <sbalneav> how you gonna solve swap?
[04:44] <ogra> hmm
[04:44] <ogra> right
[04:45] <sbalneav> point, sbalneav :)
[04:45] <ogra> well tere are these new virtualization features ...
[04:45] <sbalneav> lol
[04:45] <ogra> they just miss the file creation
[04:46] <ogra> sigh ... i thought i'd get around doing the lawn ... now the sun comes out
[04:47] <highvoltage> :)
[04:47] <ogra> it did
[04:47] <ogra> the last two days
[04:47] <highvoltage> wow, my prayers can time travel
[04:47] <ogra> heh
[04:52] <sbalneav> ok, gdb's given me some useful info
[04:52] <sbalneav> think I know where to start
[04:52] <sbalneav> I'm gonna go cook breakfast for the kids, I'll be on and off today.
[04:52] <sbalneav> keep you posted.
[04:53] <sbalneav> bye
[07:10] <ogra> grmbl
[07:47] <sbalneav> ogra: Hey, quick question, it's looking like nbd-server's gonna need some major hacking.
[07:47] <sbalneav> but, it would be much easier to pull out the bits we need, and make an nbd-server-inetd
[07:47] <sbalneav> standalone package.
[07:47] <sbalneav> Is this doable/sensible?
[08:15] <stgraber> sbalneav: it would be easier, but not that quick as you'll have to upload it, will be short before Tribe-2
[08:28] <andrew____> need help setting up LDAP...having trouble with some steps in the Ubuntu-provided tutorial
[08:28] <andrew____> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LDAP-Samba_PDC_%28for_Linux_and_Windows%29?highlight=%28ldap%29#head-d4de697d4a73d6fdf483f46974c9c30f4e20f485
[08:29] <stgraber> andrew____: I've set my home LDAP/Samba server long ago (Dapper) using this tutorial, maybe I can help
[08:29] <stgraber> andrew____: what's exactly your problem ?
[08:31] <andrew____> I'm at the "migrating data" section of the tutorial and the ldapadd commands hav been returning errors
[08:31] <andrew____> first it was unhappy with the DN syntax.
[08:32] <andrew____> I removed the double quotes around: ldapadd x -D cn=root,dc=yourdomain,dc=edu -W -f /tmp/base.ldif
[08:32] <stgraber> your double quotes look strange to me : " is the correct ones
[08:32] <andrew____>  ldapadd -x -D "cn=andrew,dc=example,dc=net" -W -f /tmp/group.ldif
[08:33] <andrew____> Enter LDAP Password:
[08:33] <andrew____> adding new entry "cn=root,ou=Group,dc=example,dc=net"
[08:33] <andrew____> ldap_add: No such object (32)
[08:33] <andrew____> Hmmm...this is what I get for copying from the web...
[08:33] <andrew____> let me try that.
[08:34] <stgraber> the ones in the second command you pasted seem to be correct, not the one you pasted before my comment
[08:35] <andrew____> Now, where it says root, I'm substituting the LDAP administrator's username, correct?
[08:37] <andrew____> When I use root, it says "invalid credentials"....when I use "andrew" (root user) it says:
[08:37] <stgraber> yes
[08:37] <andrew____>  adding new entry "cn=root,ou=Group,dc=example,dc=net"
[08:37] <andrew____> ldap_add: No such object (32)
[08:37] <stgraber> that's the LDAP root account, but it can be something different than root
[08:37] <stgraber> it's manager here
[08:38] <andrew____> Ok so I have the correct username, but it seems to not like the "object" which I don't understand enough to troubleshoot.
[08:38] <stgraber> What's your DC ?
[08:39] <stgraber> example.net ? Looks strange to me
[08:39] <andrew____> example.net  is what I'm using.   I'm setting up a test server.
[08:39] <stgraber> ok, is the ou Group created ?
[08:39] <stgraber> otherwise you may have some problem creating a "root" object inside of it
[08:40] <andrew____> I don't know....I've followed all the tutorial steps....how do I create an "ou"
[08:42] <stgraber> ldapadd -x -D "cn=admin-account,dc=example,dc=net" -W -f /tmp/group.ldif
[08:42] <stgraber> is that what you have run ?
[08:42] <stgraber> replacing admin-account by the right value of course
[08:45] <andrew____> this is what I'm running, and getting adding new entry "cn=root,ou=Group,dc=example,dc=net"
[08:45] <andrew____> ldap_add: No such object (32)
[08:45] <andrew____> why is it replacing by admin-account with root? Is this normal?
[08:46] <stgraber> I've put admin-account but it can be whatever you want, simply depends on the one you've put in your openldap config
[08:47] <andrew____> right,  I'm typing "andrew" but in the error it gives back, it says: adding new entry "cn=root,ou=Group,dc=example,dc=net"
[08:47] <andrew____> ldap_add: No such object (32)
[08:48] <stgraber> http://www.openldap.org/faq/data/cache/157.html
[08:48] <stgraber> Looking at google I get that
[08:49] <stgraber> (sorry, the wiki page was completely different when I did my home install, so looking at how it's done here doesn't help me much)
[08:52] <andrew____>  well, doing ldapsearch for the domain isn't working...
[08:53] <andrew____> ldap_sasl_interactive_bind_s: Invalid credentials (49)
[08:53] <andrew____>         additional info: SASL(-13): user not found: no secret in database
[08:56] <stgraber> Seems like you have a problem with your user
[08:56] <andrew____> In one of the .conf files?
[08:57] <stgraber> check the rootdn and rootpw in your /etc/ldap/slapd.conf
[08:58] <andrew____> rootdn "cn=andrew,dc=example,dc=net"
[08:58] <andrew____> rootpw {MD5}i6BhjLzBnwRu1ky1g36bEg==
[09:00] <stgraber> hmm, so : ldapsearch -b 'dc=example,dc=net' -s base '(objectclass=*)' should work ...
[09:00] <andrew____> do I need to be operating in the shell as andrew...I'm logged in at root
[09:01] <andrew____> doesn't work when I'm logged in as andrew either...
[09:04] <stgraber> andrew____: I'm affraid I'm not really able to help you on that one :(
[09:04] <stgraber> you may want to join #ubuntu-server
[09:04] <stgraber> maybe you'll see a LDAP pro there
[09:04] <andrew____> Ok  thanks for your great effort!
[09:04] <stgraber> no problem, sorry it didn't help you much ...
[09:09] <Burgundavia> andrew____: still stuck with ldap?
[09:09] <Burgundavia> lets see if we can get you going
[09:13] <andrew____> Yes, stuck for about a week now.
[09:13] <Burgundavia> so the ldap server is installed and up?
[09:14] <andrew____> yes, I believe so.  How can I easily test?
[09:14] <andrew____> It restarts fine.
[09:14] <andrew____> And slaptest succeeds
[09:14] <Burgundavia> ok
[09:14] <Burgundavia> where are you getting stuck at
[09:14] <Burgundavia> ?
[09:15] <andrew____> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LDAP-Samba_PDC_%28for_Linux_and_Windows%29?highlight=%28ldap%29#head-e21d7c98123fe571e292f75cec4e6ba77d97b8cf
[09:15] <andrew____> migrating data
[09:16] <Burgundavia> do you need samba?
[09:16] <Burgundavia> ie: do you have Windows clients?
[09:17] <Burgundavia> ok, wow, those instructions are somewhat crackish
[09:18] <andrew____> I need samba and yes, I will have windows clients, linux clients, and thin clients
[09:18] <andrew____> this is for a school network
[09:18] <Burgundavia> I assume you used their config files
[09:18] <andrew____> yes, though I changed the root username, dn, etc...
[09:20] <Burgundavia> ok
[09:20] <Burgundavia> first thing
[09:20] <Burgundavia> reinstall ldap
[09:20] <Burgundavia> lets get rid of those config files
[09:20] <Burgundavia> I don't trust any of them
[09:21] <andrew____> OK
[09:21] <Burgundavia> oh geez
[09:22] <andrew____> shall I apt-get remove or use the dpkg approach (pardon my newness...I just started Linux a week ago)?
[09:22] <Burgundavia> apt-get --purge remove
[09:23] <andrew____> done for slapd, is this it?
[09:23] <Burgundavia> it might be simpler to reinstlal
[09:24] <andrew____> reinstall slapd?
[09:26] <Burgundavia> no, reinstall the whole server
[09:26] <Burgundavia> you have a bunch of randomly modified config files that I simply don't trust
[09:26] <Burgundavia> and the instructions on that page don't exactly strike confidence in me
[09:28] <andrew____> Can you point me towards a more trustworthy tutorial?  I just spent a week following various permutations of tutorials and this will be my fourth reinstall of the server...
[09:28] <Burgundavia> honestly, no
[09:28] <Burgundavia> I was just sighing at how bad our tutorials are
[09:29] <Burgundavia> which is a fault I lay partly at my feet, as I didn't work on them
[09:30] <andrew____> Well, I'm eager to get my school on Linux...but this learning curve has definitely tested my endurance...
[09:30] <Burgundavia> you have hit probably one of the hardest bits of Linux
[09:31] <Burgundavia> you have a nasty combination of ldap (which isn't very easy) and samba
[09:31] <Burgundavia> I assume you currently run AD?
[09:31] <andrew____> No,  we currently don't have a school.  It starts in september.
[09:32] <Burgundavia> ahh
[09:32] <andrew____> I'm trying to pursuade them to go open source, but I need a prototype.
[09:33] <Burgundavia> yep
[09:33] <stgraber> the best way to have LDAP working correcty is to really start step by step, starting by installing a clean LDAP server, then move the UNIX auth on it, the once ok, extend the LDAP schema to Samba specifc objects, then make Samba use them
[09:33] <Burgundavia> yep
[09:34] <Burgundavia> exactly my thoughts
[09:34] <andrew____> So far, I've got the thin client working...but I need to know I can do a mix of thin and thick, Linux and windows on the same network
[09:34] <stgraber> following those tutorials which provide obscure scripts doing everything sometime works, but you don't understand what you are doing
[09:34] <stgraber> and then won't be able to update your system or fix an eventual problem
[09:34] <andrew____> I'd love to learn it...
[09:35] <stgraber> andrew____: I'm currently doing that kind of install as a test in a classroom connected to that state/canton network
[09:35] <Burgundavia> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LDAPClientAuthentication
[09:35] <Burgundavia> that is for your Ubuntu clients to auth against
[09:36] <Burgundavia> stgraber: mind fixing up https://help.ubuntu.com/community/OpenLDAPServer?highlight=%28open%29
[09:36] <Burgundavia> it has been 6 months since I setup my last workplaces ldap server
[09:37] <andrew____> I'm going to log off and reinstall ubuntu server on this machine...will log back on on the trusty laptop....
[09:37] <stgraber> this OpenLDAPServer wiki page was one of the ones I used to set up my local LDAP server
[09:37] <Burgundavia> stgraber: it needs some work
[09:38] <andrupal> Back...formerly andrew____
[09:39] <andrupal> So for a fresh server build, I've been using the ubuntu distro and then installing edubuntu server on top of it...does this make any sense?
[09:39] <Burgundavia> are you comfortable with the commandline?
[09:39] <andrupal> getting more so every day
[09:40] <Burgundavia> then just install ubuntu server
[09:41] <andrupal> I find editing files a bit awkard in commad line
[09:41] <andrupal> Is "vim" the state of the art there?
[09:41] <Burgundavia> basically
[09:41] <Burgundavia> in that case, I would get the ubuntu desktop
[09:42] <stgraber> andrupal: you may also like nano which can be easier to use or even the editor part of mc
[09:42] <stgraber> those two are the ones I use on command line systems
[09:43] <andrupal> nano is a different cmd line text editor?
[09:43] <stgraber> yes
[09:43] <andrupal> Now, as far as the thin client setup, edubuntu seems to make the process much easier...agreed?
[09:44] <Burgundavia> absolutely
[09:45] <Burgundavia> that is pretty much install and go
[09:45] <andrupal> so you recommend ubuntu server, but don't I also need edubuntu server to get thin client functionality?
[09:49] <andrupal> Eventually, I'm also going to want to authenticate a website against LDAP...I'm not barking up the wrong tree, am I?
[09:51] <stgraber> I doubt that having all the services on the same server will be a good idea for a school, but technically you can of course install LDAP/DNS/Apache/... on the same server, that's just no recommended
[09:52] <stgraber> having a website authenticating against LDAP is possible using php-ldap (if it's a php website) or a Apache module (never used it)
[09:52] <stgraber> then using it either as the user DB for the website (php-ldap) or like the directory/file protection mechanism of Apache (http login) (with the apache module)
[09:52] <andrupal> I'd likely put it on a different server...but could I use the same LDAP server for authentication, or mirror the LDAP server on an Apache server?
[09:53] <andrupal> This would be a php site (Drupal)
[09:53] <stgraber> oh, you can of course contact your LDAP server from another so no need to mirror it on the apache server
[09:53] <andrupal> Cool...so this is single sign on for all services, as I hoped.  Now I just need to learn how the hell to do it.
[09:54] <stgraber> I never had to but I'm sure you can auth against LDAP using drupal
[09:54] <andrupal> So I've just reinstalled ubuntu server...now you're advising against adding edubuntu server
[09:55] <stgraber> it's better to have a working terminal server (edubuntu) and then another server acting as domain server (ldap/samba/dns/apache)
[09:55] <Burgundavia> yep
[09:55] <stgraber> having all the users logged on the domain server isn't really a good idea I think :)
[09:55] <Burgundavia> single sign on is easier said than done
[09:55] <stgraber> I wouldn't like having 250 people having shell access to my ldap/samba/dns/apache server
[09:56] <andrupal> I see...for now, can I emulate these both on the same machine, as a test setup?
[09:56] <stgraber> you'll easily have : single login (same login/pass everywhere), single sign on also mean something like kerberos not to have to actually auth on all the services
[09:57] <andrupal> single login is a good start.  I don't want to have to deal with unsynched accounts!  Nitemare.
[09:58] <stgraber> indeed :) nothing worse than having 10th of different user DB :)
[09:59] <andrupal> So I'm not going to install thin client this time around, but I assume you can set up LTSP to auth against LDAP as well...is this a non-standard deal?  Probably not a part of the base distro of edubuntu?
[09:59] <Burgundavia> yes and yes
[09:59] <Burgundavia> although there is work to make that easier
[10:00] <andrupal> I've seen some docs kicking around in the development areas...can't wait!
[10:00] <Burgundavia> I would take a separate computer and install the edubuntu classroom server
[10:01] <Burgundavia> just to see how it is supposed to work and to give you confidence to start playing with LDAP again :)
[10:01] <andrupal> Well, I had this working fine!   I loved it.
[10:01] <LaserJock> anybody seen ogra lately?
[10:02] <Burgundavia> on vacation?
[10:02] <stgraber> LaserJock: last seen : 17:15 UTC
[10:02] <LaserJock> moquist: around?
[10:04] <andrupal> Presently, I don't have access to more than two machines for testing...so I'll have to learn piece by piece., unless I can use a laptop as a thin client.
[10:05] <Burgundavia> you can
[10:06] <Burgundavia> the nic might also network booting or you can use a boot disk/cd
[10:06] <andrupal> But then I'll also need a hub...darn.
[10:07] <Burgundavia> cross over would do it
[10:10] <andrupal> let me check my own comprehension:  LDAP/Samba server needs two NICs, edubuntu classroom server needs two NICs, these are daisy chained together with the thin client?
[10:21] <andrupal> In this config, on which server would something like content filtering take place...since that's what schools are required to do if they want a federal (US) subsidized t1 line?
[10:22] <stgraber> the one connected to the internet
[10:22] <stgraber> personally I'd do that :
[10:22] <stgraber> First server connected to the internet and to the LAN (running DNS/Samba/Apache/LDAP/DHCP)
[10:23] <stgraber> Second server connected to the LAN (can contact the other via its LAN interface) being the Edubuntu terminal server
[10:23] <stgraber> Thin clients connected to the LAN as the Edubuntu server is
[10:24] <stgraber> then as everything as to go through the first server, you install the content filtering proxy on it (privoxy+squid or something like that, doing caching+filtering)
[10:25] <andrupal> So any given classroom can have its own terminal server and still authenticate against LDAP and have student files stored centrally?
[10:25] <stgraber> yes, as any computer on the LAN can contact the two servers
[10:25] <stgraber> but not the Internet
[10:25] <stgraber> everything has to go through the first server
[10:25] <stgraber> on the LAN you can connect your thin, fat and windows client
[10:26] <andrupal> But file storage...that can remain centralized despite multiple terminal servers...
[10:26] <stgraber> Burgundavia: ^ Does this look ok for you ?
[10:26] <stgraber> I'd suggest to store files on the first server
[10:26] <Burgundavia> I have actually never gone past installing LTSP
[10:26] <Burgundavia> and have actually never installed Edubuntu
[10:27] <stgraber> and then access those data from the Terminal Server, Fat clients or Windows clients
[10:27] <LaserJock> Burgundavia: I got it to work in VMware the other day
[10:27] <stgraber> (you can use Samba for that part)
[10:27] <LaserJock> it's actually pretty cool
[10:27] <Burgundavia> LaserJock: get which working?
[10:27] <stgraber> LaserJock: oh yes, VMWare is really great to test that kind of stuff :)
[10:28] <andrupal> Is it preferable to run multiple client servers at the classroom level?  It seems some of the thin client manager could be very useful to the instructor...not so useful locked away in the server room.
[10:28] <stgraber> LaserJock: I've a complete copy of my state/canton network here :) Two Win2003 enterprise, 1 WinXP pro workstation, two thin clients, 1 Edubuntu server and 1 Ubuntu server :)
[10:28] <stgraber> LaserJock: all running on my laptop at the same time :)
[10:29] <stgraber> andrupal: the thin client manager can be launched from any of the thin clients IIRC
[10:29] <stgraber> andrupal: you can have the Edubuntu server in a rack in the server room and then manage your network from any of the thin clients
[10:29] <stgraber> andrupal: all depends on the kind of hardware you'll have
[10:29] <andrupal> OK...so this is just a matter of giving account privileges to teachers.
[10:29] <stgraber> andrupal: if you have very very fast servers with a lot of RAM, you can have one or two for a school
[10:30] <stgraber> otherwise a per classroom server can be an idea
[10:30] <stgraber> andrupal: yes
[10:30] <andrupal> What is very very fast...we're in the market now...need to make good decisions.
[10:30] <stgraber> andrupal: it's basically putting them into the admin and adm group
[10:30] <stgraber> How many clients will you have ?
[10:31] <andrupal> 45 thin , 15 wireless laptops, 10 or so thick   (the laptops and thick clients will likely be windows)
[10:31] <andrupal> This needs to scale up by roughly that many each year.
[10:33] <stgraber> You'd need something like 5GB of RAM for 45 thin, about the CPU there aren't any amount per client on the wiki
[10:34] <stgraber> but something like a quad-CPU dual-core would be ok I think
[10:34] <stgraber> Burgundavia, LaserJock : One of you know better than I do ?
[10:35] <stgraber> it'll also mainly depends on what you are going to run
[10:35] <Burgundavia> there is a formula somewhere
[10:35] <stgraber> Burgundavia: yes, I just can't find it :)
[10:36] <Burgundavia> http://edubuntu.org/GettingStarted
[10:36] <andrupal> Well, we'll also need to have Windows client access...how complicated does this make things...?
[10:36] <stgraber> I can find for the RAM (100-150)
[10:36] <stgraber> andrupal: what do you mean by Windows client access ?
[10:37] <andrupal> Ability to run windows software...much of ed software is windows only...
[10:37] <stgraber> Burgundavia: that's for RAM, not the CPU :(
[10:37] <Burgundavia> cpu is less important
[10:37] <andrupal> I've seen case studies where LTSP has a windows emulator in it, somehow.
[10:37] <stgraber> andrupal: ok, at this point you have two possiblity : first one try using wine (good luck), second have an external Windows Terminal Server
[10:37] <stgraber> and then access it with rdesktop
[10:38] <stgraber> (that's what I did here, as wine wasn't working ... but I don't know how expensive the Windows 2003 licence can be ...)
[10:38] <andrupal> Apparently you pay per client!
[10:38] <stgraber> argh
[10:39] <stgraber> well, you basically have only one client don't you ? :) that's the Edubuntu server :)
[10:39] <andrupal> Perhaps we can make that case...
[10:40] <stgraber> you'll first want to test using wine, see how much RAM/CPU it takes and if it works as with Windows
[10:40] <stgraber> if wine isn't an option, you'll need to investigate the Terminal Server option
[10:40] <andrupal> So it sounds like we'll need 3 servers:  DNS,  Client, and Windows...  plus another backup?
[10:41] <stgraber> yes
[10:41] <stgraber> expensive ones being the Edubuntu and the Windows ones
[10:41] <stgraber> DNS/LDAP/Apache/... ones isn't that ressource expensive and so does the backup one (except the HDD/Tapes)
[10:41] <andrupal> Well, if we're hosting a php website on the DNS server, is that resource intensive?
[10:42] <stgraber> nope
[10:42] <stgraber> I've a Samba/LDAP/Apache/MySQL/DNS/Backup/Print server on a 1Ghz server here :)
[10:43] <andrupal> OK  ubuntu server and desktop have finally installed.   Now to LDAP...
[10:43] <stgraber> only the DB part (MySQL/PostgreSQL) can be resource intensive, but that depends on the number of people connecting to the website, if that's an internal website that means a maximum of 70 people on it
[10:44] <stgraber> and usually the problem with the DB server is more the amount of RAM than the CPU
[10:44] <andrupal> This is a school portal...somewhat query intensive though not super high usage...
[10:44] <stgraber> if you put 1GB you won't have any problem (and I think that's the minimum you can have now :))
[10:45] <andrupal> this is quite helpful!
[10:45] <stgraber> my dedicated server running the Ubuntu ISO testing website + 5 other website is running with only 256MB of ram :)
[10:45] <stgraber> and it also does SSL
[10:45] <stgraber> so you'll be ok with 1GB I think
[10:46] <andrupal> so I'd like to install LDAP now, I think...apt-get install slapd?
[10:47] <stgraber> Burgundavia: ^ now it's your turn :)
[10:47] <andrupal> stgraber, you've been a huge help...thanks for chatting it up!
[10:48] <stgraber> andrupal: no problem, I agree that we should post more about real install done in different school, what they used, how they installed, ...
[10:48] <stgraber> andrupal: that way people won't have to do all the research again and again
[10:48] <andrupal> We'd be happy to serve as a case study.  High profile magnet school in NYC...affiliate with Columbia.  Could be a good plug for y'all...stay tuned.
[10:50] <stgraber> argh, seems like Burgundavia is busy :)
[10:50] <stgraber> ok, so install slapd
[10:51] <stgraber> I'm booting a virtual Ubuntu server
[10:53] <stgraber> andrupal: ^
[10:53] <andrupal> yes
[10:53] <andrupal> slapd installed
[10:55] <stgraber> ok, so it asked for an admin password ?
[10:55] <andrupal> yes, I gave it
[10:57] <stgraber> ok, now lets open /etc/ldap/slapd.conf
[10:58] <stgraber> update the dc (you should have to change it at 3 different places)
[10:59] <andrupal> anything should work, right...I'm using dc=example dc=net
[10:59] <stgraber> ok
[10:59] <stgraber> the default LDAP root account is "admin"
[11:00] <andrupal> yes...shall I change this to my account name, as I am root?  or do I misunderstrand
[11:00] <stgraber> no, it's just that the admin login for LDAP will be cn=admin,dc=example,dc=net
[11:00] <stgraber> that's no problem
[11:00] <stgraber> now check your /etc/ldap/ldap.conf
[11:01] <stgraber> it should point to your LDAP server (localhost or something like that)
[11:01] <stgraber> (here it doesn't as I've this VM configured as LDAP client for the state network)
[11:01] <andrupal> how to check?  slaptest?
[11:01] <andrupal> slaptest succeeds
[11:03] <stgraber> it doesn't work correctly here, give me minute to investigate
[11:04] <ogra_> sbalneav, yes, thats fine, if its a patch to the current nbd-server package and we can split out a separate binary from the nbd sourecpackage
[11:04] <ogra_> if ts a rewrite and duplicates the source thats a no go
[11:05] <andrupal> stgraber I will need to return to this later in evening or tomorrow...when are you likely around?
[11:06] <stgraber> andrupal: tomorrow during the whole day (I'm UTC+2) so from 8 UTC to 2UTC
[11:07] <stgraber> hmm, more 12 UTC to 2 UTC
[11:07] <stgraber> argh nope :)
[11:07] <stgraber> some timezone problem tonight ...
[11:07] <stgraber> 8 UTC to 22 UTC
[11:07] <stgraber> :)
[11:07] <andrupal> OK...well I'll be back tomorrow.  Hope to see you.  Again, many thankx.
[11:08] <stgraber> np, see you